WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Useful Idiots.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Katie Helper.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Mary Mattay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for being here.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Our website is Useful Idiots.
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[SPEAKER_03]: podcast.com.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Go there to support the show and get bonus content.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if people may know Cornell University and the New York Attorney General have been exposed for really dropping the ball on investigation into an alleged rape at Cornell University.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And to discuss this, we are joined by Cornell PhD student Mamadoo Tau.
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[SPEAKER_00]: who was treated very differently by Cornell and by the U.S. government.
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[SPEAKER_00]: His crime being protesting for a free Palestine.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But first, we do a weekly recap segment called the Friday Free for All.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's for our paid subscribers.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're a free subscriber, here's a preview.
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[SPEAKER_03]: This week in Russia, fear mongering, there's been all this talk about Russia invading a NATO country, Russia's hybrid threat.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, well, at a joint press conference with Nitori Secretary General Mark Rootay, the Prime Minister of Lithuania kind of blew all this up.
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[SPEAKER_09]: Brett is there for the society, but you can't exaggerate and say, oh, something is happening in upcoming months or weeks, but what I was addressing also Secretary General is there any proof intelligence services are providing something on the table that Russia is getting ready for something and there is actually none.
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[SPEAKER_09]: So I mean the risk remains, but it's not fluctuating or is it increasing
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[SPEAKER_00]: Did he get shot with like true serum or something?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's like, can you imagine if corporate journalists asked the same question that this Lithuania leader is, is there any proof?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, much better this world would be, it's simply we subjected claims about adversaries like Russia to have an entry standards, like he's doing, and it's so awkward because he's doing it next to Secretary General Mark Rutte, of NATO, who's like one of the biggest Russian fear monitors around.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And watch how Mark Rutte has to scramble to insist that, really, yeah, no, Russia is up to no good.
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[SPEAKER_08]: You've heard the Supreme Health Command yesterday saying, hey, when able, when you're assured the solutions, or almost sure the solutions attribute it to the Russians, exact like Estonia did today, I applaud it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So according to my great day, we should attribute anything to the Russians, either when we're sure or when we're almost sure.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So even for a night's share, we can still blame Russia.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just as a reminder, people probably remember this, but this is the guy who likes to call Trump daddy.
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[SPEAKER_03]: No, well, call Trump daddy and blame Russia if everything, even when you're not sure.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way of the leader of the transatlantic military alliance.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, turning to another influential person, unfortunately, that's Mark Dubuets.
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[SPEAKER_03]: He is the CEO of the Foundation for the Defense of democracies, which is basically Israeli front group.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There's been legislation in advance recently that merges the US and Israeli militaries and basically safeguards any attempt to roll that back.
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[SPEAKER_03]: should an elected leader try to do that in the future.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And Mark Dubuets is so excited about this because by merging the US and Israel even more than they currently are.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to imagine and even tighter lines.
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[SPEAKER_03]: This means that if anything bad happen to Israel in the future, this will also impose costs Mark Dubuets explains on the US too.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This same financial system that the U.S. has, it gives us enormous leverage against our adversaries like Iran, Russia, China, and certainly non-state terrorist organizations, is now going to give theoretically a future American administration enormous leverage against our ally Israel.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the less than I wanted Israelis to understand.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So,
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is not an argument for Israelis to decouple from America.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's exactly the opposite.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's what you said earlier.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've got to make the relationship deeper.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Integrate our defense industries.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Integrate technology intelligence, finance, research, supply chains.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to make Israel so valuable that Americans strategic interests that weaponizing that financial relationship against Israel is going to impose costs on the United States itself.
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[SPEAKER_03]: What a great friend, huh?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like wishing harm on the U.S. if bad things happen to Israel, that's the Israeli promise.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really, really dipping into the dual loyalty trope there, bro, where Jews are loyal to Israel before to the U.S., and it's ironic that these people, these major Israel supporters, are always accusing Israel critics of tropes here, anti-Semitic tropes there, stereotypes, and then they're,
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[SPEAKER_03]: And for the full Friday for you for all, where you get to hear the latest excuse that Republicans are coming up with for high energy prices.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They've tried Ukraine, they've tried Biden.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You'll never guess who they're blaming next.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Plus, we hear a brand new initiative from Secretary of War, Pete Higgseth, bringing, I guess, himself, even closer to God.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Imagine that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Go to our website, useloeditspodcast.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A New York prosecutor has reopened a sexual assault investigation at Cornell University after a woman alleged she'd been drugged, assaulted, and gang raped by seven former and current members of the Kai-5 fraternity in 2024.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The allegations came in a lawsuit filed this month by a woman identified only as Jane Doe, who says campus officials and law enforcement failed to take her accusations seriously.
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[SPEAKER_00]: To discuss this case and the rank apocracy surrounding it, we are joined by Mama Dutal, a PhD student at Cornell University who was punished for the crime of protesting genocide.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We also speak to his lawyer, Chris Godshaw.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show, Chris and Mama do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, thanks for having us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for joining.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the Cornell 7 story in which a woman has accused a
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[SPEAKER_00]: in 2024.
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[SPEAKER_00]: She alleges that while they sexually assaulted her, a message was sent to a frat house Snapchat group that stated there was free PUSS-Y upstairs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: According to University's president, two of the accused were expelled, two suspended for at least two semesters, one had already graduated before any punishment could be handed down, and two were found not to be responsible for sexual misconduct, and quote,
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[SPEAKER_00]: No one has been arrested since.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The complaint also asserts that the students were quote afforded the opportunity to mitigate their conduct by submitting essays to Cornell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And quote, a New York prosecutor has reopened investigation into the matter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people online have been contrasting the treatment of the accused rapist at Cornell with actual protesters.
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[SPEAKER_00]: at Cornell, but more generally the treatment of student protesters, pro-Palestine protesters, free speech protesters.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So can you lay this out?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think maybe Chris, we can hand it to you first to give us the kind of the rundown of the Cornell rape case.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, obviously, Mama, do I want to hear your thoughts?
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[SPEAKER_05]: Sure, you know, so I've been following this like everybody else.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It seems to me, right, that
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[SPEAKER_05]: There was this initial activity in 2024 when this was reported.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Internal activity in Cornell is a little bit unclear, the extent to which this was investigated.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Beyond, we do know that there was the internal student disciplinary process.
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[SPEAKER_05]: We know that there was two expulsions and a suspension and various other
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[SPEAKER_05]: you know, consequence is ranging from nothing to something less severe than suspicion.
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[SPEAKER_05]: We do know also that there was a police report shared with the district attorney's office.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like from what I've seen from interviews with the DA that the only thing they saw was a six-page sort of layout from Cornell's investigation that didn't go any farther.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That was kind of like
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[SPEAKER_05]: We handled it, don't worry about it, here we go, and nothing was further sort of done about it fast forward a couple years later.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And now, you know, the victim, the alleged victim, who is remains anonymous, has filed a civil suit against the perpetrators, the university, and various other actors who were involved in this investigation.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I think
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[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'm going to turn me right I'm going to turn me and all I do all day is complaining about do process violations.
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[SPEAKER_05]: So I I'm I'm aware of and I'm I'm I'm cautious right when it comes to jumping to conclusions right.
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[SPEAKER_05]: it is absolutely 100% the case that anyone accuses of any sort of criminal activity, whether it's at a university or not, deserves due process.
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[SPEAKER_05]: What's disturbing, I think here is a few things.
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[SPEAKER_05]: One is it's unclear to everyone how thorough the Cornell investigation was.
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[SPEAKER_05]: clearly the actions were severe enough and Cornell was aware that they were severe enough to warrant expulsion for two of the students.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Beyond that, they've sort of, it seems to me, hidden behind privacy, you know, obligations, which to be fair, of course there are privacy obligations.
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[SPEAKER_05]: There's been, I've seen some defenses, you know, from
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[SPEAKER_05]: the DA and from Cornell that imply that their hands were sort of tied, right, that there was nothing they could disclose beyond the fact of the investigation.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That's not entirely true.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, when there are allegations
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[SPEAKER_05]: substantiated allegations, of course, it seems, if there was explosions, that rise to the level of criminal activity in this category, right, in regards to sexual misconduct.
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[SPEAKER_05]: There are limited disclosures that are permissible, I think it's absurd to say, that like Title IX says that universities are not allowed to report
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[SPEAKER_05]: You know, what they believe to be an actual rape, right, a criminal sexual assault to the police.
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[SPEAKER_05]: get given that they've expelled somebody and that I don't think necessarily should be the bar, but like clearly surpassed it if you're expelling people.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's not easy to get expelled from a university, right?
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[SPEAKER_05]: That's not, they're not just doing that willingly.
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[SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm alarmed by the fact that there was just this six page report that just seemed to be like, you know, don't worry about it.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And then on top of that, you have the DA that just sort of, you know,
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[SPEAKER_05]: I get that the Cornell police are sort of, you know, they're deputized.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's like it's own police force.
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[SPEAKER_05]: There's some amount of expected, you know, deference, I suppose.
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[SPEAKER_05]: But clearly the Cornell police force and the Cornell disciplinary authorities are not equipped to deal with criminal sexual misconduct.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And the fact that there was sort of just no follow-up, it seems, and everyone's sort of like, well, we didn't know, is pretty absurd to me.
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[SPEAKER_05]: So all of that is to say, of course, that like, the investigation, I just, I think I saw that Cornell has agreed to an independent investigation that DA has reopened the case.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That is all appropriate.
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[SPEAKER_05]: The discourse around, of course, we've entered into the period where the discourse is all.
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[SPEAKER_05]: picking apart every word she's ever said to be, you know, ignoring the fact that like ignoring all the things we know about what happens to somebody in a situation like this and the recollections and the ways that people sort of try to, you know, rationalize things and all of the pressures to not have to go through this process, right?
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[SPEAKER_05]: The discourse around sort of like picking apart everything she said to jump to the defense as if like,
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[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this is, it's wrong to ask the question, even in the first place because you're going to ruin their lives, is pretty ridiculous to me.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to get into it, of course, but the, you know, I'll just note, of course, the stark contrast between the abundant concern for due process and all of these protections for people accused of sexual assault on university campuses like Cornell.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, Cornell is like, you know,
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[SPEAKER_05]: running mom would do out of the country without any sort of like, you know, qualms about it.
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[SPEAKER_05]: To be clear, the answer there is due process for both not, due process for neither.
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[SPEAKER_05]: But the contrast is stark.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So mom would do talk us through what you were doing on campus that got you in trouble, what you did and what you said.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then Chris, have you explained how legally they tried to
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended twice, first time I was suspended was quote unquote involvement in the encampment.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So building an unauthorized installation on campus, and I want to note that as I said, I was suspended within five hours of the encampment being put up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So they don't know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know who actually was involved in building the encampments.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Second time, that I brought down what we brought down the group.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I brought to a close a recruitment drive for weapons manufacturers who were targets of our investment campaign.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I attended the protests for five minutes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was told, but because upon leaving, the Cornell chief of police had become accustomed to my face, he recognized me and in a haste said, Mamodhu was there, right, even though I had been there, my presence exceeded no longer in five minutes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that affected me, placed on the house arrest and then finally, bringing a lawsuit against Trump, the government administration, challenging the executive orders, the constitutionality of them,
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[SPEAKER_01]: that then put into motion a whole set of processes, which resulted in me having just going to hiding and then eventually self-deportation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And what happened to the other students involved in the encampment and in this reaction to the recruitment event?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Some was suspended, some there was criminal charges brought against fear of them, but they were eventually dropped.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And some were also banned of campus, but many were also let free, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I think it's the context of people saw me as a leader, so therefore I had to get rid of you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We want to tell you about a tool that helps us sift through the propaganda of corporate news.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They built a program that lets you search a specific news story and then it shows you every outlet that's reported on it so that you can see the bias of those outlets and figure out which headline is the most accurate.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So here's a story.
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[SPEAKER_03]: This week, the Lebanese Army reported that it is really strike on a Lebanese Army vehicle wounded a soldier and three civilians.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's use Ground News to compare how different outlets
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so TRT World says is really strike on Lebanese Army vehicle injures soldier three civilians.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Al Arabias says Lebanese Army says is really strike wounds for including soldier and free press cash mirror says one Lebanese soldier three civilians wounded in Nabatea strike.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So Al Arabia is the Saudi state on network and
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[SPEAKER_03]: they use the classic like Lebanese army says like Palestinian say not just I mean I guess they're just trying to go for accuracy maybe they couldn't confirm the story of themselves so not that big a deal but still like I mean given that Israel's carrying out content attacks inside Lebanon and given their problem with video footage of this I don't even think you need the Lebanese army says and of course free press catch mirror
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[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, who carried out the strike?
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[SPEAKER_03]: This is the classic thing where if Israel does it, we don't find out who did it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Probably happen to the celebrity soldier in three civilians who did.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And free press catch mirror is following the lead of the near times, which also looks the race is really agency whenever Israel is a fall.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is so rare that you hear Israel says, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or like you always hear Hamas controlled health ministry, you never hear like liquid controlled army.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So just another example of how what Israel said is presented as fact.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and what Palestine, Palestinians say or what Lebanese say is presented as allegation.
16:59.883 --> 17:11.108
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though ironically, I mean how many times does these rarely government have to lie before you take what they say with a grain of salt, with a huge pillar of kosher salt?
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[SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to parse through the news, like we just did, go to groundnews.com slash useful to get 40% off on limited access that's groundnews.com slash useful groundnews.com slash useful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And Chris, can you just explain how they possibly were attempted to criminalize these actions?
20:12.764 --> 20:22.708
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, so it's interesting to use or criminalize, right, because one of the great fictions of immigration law is that it's all civil, right?
20:22.848 --> 20:25.129
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's, they don't even have to criminalize it, right?
20:25.589 --> 20:29.310
[SPEAKER_05]: It more or less happened fairly honestly and out in the open, right?
20:29.330 --> 20:32.851
[SPEAKER_05]: And what they didn't really bother to do a lot of, like, slight of hand.
20:33.372 --> 20:33.732
[SPEAKER_05]: It was,
20:35.169 --> 21:03.115
[SPEAKER_05]: The executive orders direct various actors in the government, including the Department of Homeland Security to identify students in particular, who are not citizens, who engage in insert their broad understanding of anti-Semitic activity, and look at that, and decide, really just decide, like literally a clerk,
21:05.733 --> 21:08.194
[SPEAKER_05]: determines that somebody's visa should be revoked.
21:09.155 --> 21:16.458
[SPEAKER_05]: And there are various reasons in the statute that allow the State Department to revoke visas.
21:17.638 --> 21:23.341
[SPEAKER_05]: And some of them, like Muhammad Khalil's case, is the National Security Ground and has to be done by the Secretary himself.
21:24.361 --> 21:32.525
[SPEAKER_05]: Others, the one that was invoked for Muhammadu, is like a catch all any reason that you want, basically.
21:34.609 --> 21:37.611
[SPEAKER_05]: they invoked and they said your visas cancelled.
21:38.452 --> 21:45.077
[SPEAKER_05]: And that is it, that's all that once your visas cancelled, it's as if you overstate a visa or you came unlawfully, right?
21:45.158 --> 21:49.561
[SPEAKER_05]: So that is what triggers the entire removal process.
21:50.182 --> 21:57.527
[SPEAKER_05]: And importantly, it is almost impossible to get a court to review that action.
21:58.028 --> 22:00.510
[SPEAKER_05]: The revocation of the visa itself
22:03.421 --> 22:07.043
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, just completely insulated from court review.
22:07.063 --> 22:09.264
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's like no due process.
22:09.765 --> 22:14.027
[SPEAKER_05]: When it comes to that, it is just like, how did they criminalize it?
22:14.087 --> 22:15.348
[SPEAKER_05]: They said it was, they said it.
22:16.008 --> 22:16.889
[SPEAKER_05]: That's it.
22:16.929 --> 22:18.369
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the answer.
22:18.870 --> 22:19.870
[SPEAKER_05]: They just decided that.
22:20.050 --> 22:21.411
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, there's nothing more to it.
22:21.992 --> 22:29.216
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope if this young woman who's the next victim sees this or his this, that she knows that so many people in the world are in Hau Kona,
22:30.016 --> 22:38.221
[SPEAKER_01]: and I think that's really important but I think that it deserves the attention that it's getting and I'm praying that she gets justice that she's rightfully deserves.
22:38.962 --> 22:54.952
[SPEAKER_01]: I also want to then in the same breath bring up that we have to take note of the disparity in reaction to something as so heinous as a gang rape to the fact that it speaks to a culture which we
22:57.975 --> 23:07.071
[SPEAKER_01]: versus anti-genicide activity because at end of the day, I am set out of the US and able to return to the US right now.
23:07.843 --> 23:13.465
[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended twice, one for an encampment, which I now suspended on day one.
23:13.885 --> 23:23.448
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, when an international student is suspended, it's put into motion this whole question of are there in status and therefore are there is there visa valid?
23:24.148 --> 23:27.389
[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended within about four hours of the encampment going up.
23:28.130 --> 23:33.852
[SPEAKER_01]: No investigation, no due process, which meant I would have to leave the country and I was told within 48 hours.
23:35.380 --> 23:35.660
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
23:36.521 --> 23:41.624
[SPEAKER_01]: After backlash, Kornal relented their position and I was given some conditions to fulfill.
23:42.704 --> 23:46.647
[SPEAKER_01]: In September of 2024, I attended a protest at Spatler Hotel.
23:47.047 --> 23:54.111
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's good to note, this is for me, some of the greatest forms of evidence that points to this disparity.
23:55.232 --> 24:03.357
[SPEAKER_01]: That one event in where Rindor was a peaceful protest and we brought to a closed recruitment fair for what was my weapon's manufacturing?
24:04.686 --> 24:13.309
[SPEAKER_01]: that had five campus wide notifications, go out by the president, condemning that event, right?
24:14.169 --> 24:22.051
[SPEAKER_01]: We had in the faculty senate, they were bringing up my tweets to prove why I should not be on campus.
24:22.791 --> 24:31.354
[SPEAKER_01]: In that meeting, when I left that meeting, a police officer was waiting for me to give me a form that declared me persona non-grata on campus.
24:32.214 --> 24:43.438
[SPEAKER_01]: I was drawn a map of where I cannot go on campus and effectively because I lived on campus that meant I could leave my house and turn left and not write.
24:43.778 --> 24:44.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I was asked.
24:44.759 --> 24:49.360
[SPEAKER_01]: I was told I have to give details, intimate details of every time I want to attend.
24:49.721 --> 24:55.803
[SPEAKER_01]: If I need to see a doctor at Cornell Health and I think this for me is like the sticking point.
24:56.666 --> 25:00.409
[SPEAKER_01]: I would declare the safety concern for Cornel's campus.
25:00.990 --> 25:08.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Ban from teaching, ban from even my request to pray Cornel's campus was denied except for Friday prayer.
25:10.252 --> 25:13.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay guys, like again, we're like, where do we go with this?
25:13.674 --> 25:15.195
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we say with this, right?
25:15.235 --> 25:20.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I have not committed a crime, nor have I been accused of committing a crime.
25:20.659 --> 25:29.785
[SPEAKER_01]: My only crime and Chris knows it better than most because he was a part of my legal team was I call unquote unsafe environment for Jewish students on campus.
25:30.836 --> 25:34.359
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, once again, it's language of safety, but I hang on a minute, that begs the question.
25:34.900 --> 25:40.104
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can drug someone, put it on a group chat with 54 people and say, come and get free.
25:40.525 --> 25:42.026
[SPEAKER_01]: People know what was said.
25:42.526 --> 25:43.447
[SPEAKER_01]: P, let's say.
25:43.888 --> 25:44.188
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
25:44.768 --> 25:48.332
[SPEAKER_01]: That can be, and then you write a letter and go to classes normal.
25:49.112 --> 26:02.575
[SPEAKER_01]: But someone who is a facilitator, a teacher, an academic who has not been accused of any crimes, I am not allowed on campus because all I said is I'm free Palestine, right?
26:03.135 --> 26:13.077
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's very, we have to know what is happening here and I think it goes to the heart of what this university is actually, and this moment, right?
26:13.137 --> 26:15.238
[SPEAKER_01]: We are in a crisis of higher education,
26:17.038 --> 26:28.068
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think fundamentally, things like closing down a career's fair, messes with Cornel's bottom line terms of this money in terms of how it's interactions with various companies, right?
26:28.429 --> 26:32.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Likewise, we know that frets are money for Cornel campuses.
26:32.673 --> 26:35.916
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that alumni vote as an alumni donate money.
26:35.936 --> 26:37.857
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a last point I would say.
26:38.862 --> 26:56.192
[SPEAKER_01]: We see this kind of outside interference, but just as recently as two or three months ago, there was a communication that was sent out by conservative alumni across various mailboxes, congratulating Mike Kotlikov for getting rid of the leading student agitator.
26:56.933 --> 26:59.955
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Kotlikov is the current president of Cornell.
27:00.597 --> 27:07.123
[SPEAKER_01]: There is not that same energy to get rid of these students who are accused of committing a gang rape.
27:07.363 --> 27:09.184
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, we have to really put this together.
27:09.985 --> 27:23.257
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, even when they did the, when they were forced to do this like interim, when you mentioned the sort of how quickly they were like your person or non-grad or you're suspended, you're doing all these things.
27:23.637 --> 27:27.881
[SPEAKER_05]: When they, the language they used, when they had to do this interim suspensions, they were like,
27:28.421 --> 27:39.404
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry, it's just a precaution, like we're not saying you did anything wrong, we're just kind of like, you know, just to, you know, keep the temperature down, we're gonna do this, and then you're all gonna be welcome back.
27:39.564 --> 27:57.188
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, even when they do the thing that like people would expect, it's like they have to, they twist themselves and to nots to make people, you know, feel like they're not overreacting, but the moment it's a anti-genous hypothesis, it touches their bottom line, you know what you said?
27:58.608 --> 28:03.912
[SPEAKER_05]: international news and they have no issues just like running somebody out of the country.
28:04.172 --> 28:04.392
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:04.873 --> 28:09.176
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to actually show the New York Post coverage of your case.
28:09.516 --> 28:11.057
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that you were referred to.
28:11.898 --> 28:22.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a look at this article, Zionist Org-Prep's List of Farm Pro, Hamas Student Toping Trumpled Deport, then which honestly isn't somewhat kind of more honest than usual from the New York Post.
28:24.106 --> 28:41.838
[SPEAKER_00]: as opposed to like what you really expect for them to say is like here's the list of of students who must be deported at least they presented that way but at and by the way I want to I should fold this closure I also was on a list of people who bait our
28:42.438 --> 28:45.300
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of like called for to be banned from Israel.
28:46.040 --> 28:51.223
[SPEAKER_00]: There goes my spring grade plans and also predicted what didn't be right wouldn't be led into Israel.
28:51.263 --> 28:58.368
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's funny is they also predicted that like Tony Jutt and Adrian Rich won't be led in, which is true because they both passed away years ago.
28:59.768 --> 29:08.814
[SPEAKER_00]: This New York Post embeds a video from Fox News addressing the fears, uh, alleged fears and, uh, of Jewish students on campuses.
29:09.255 --> 29:18.883
[SPEAKER_07]: A new report shows that 72% of Jewish college students in the U.S. feel unwelcome on campus, more than half, say they've been victims of anti-Semitism.
29:19.244 --> 29:20.184
[SPEAKER_07]: John Levine is with us.
29:20.565 --> 29:21.465
[SPEAKER_07]: What's been done about this?
29:22.626 --> 29:26.610
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, this is obviously terrible, but it's also something we kind of could have predicted.
29:26.630 --> 29:34.837
[SPEAKER_06]: We would've all lived through the last year, we've seen every single day almost on some of these campuses, these protests chanting in favor of Hamas and whatever else, but I'm not worried at all.
29:35.117 --> 29:35.878
[SPEAKER_06]: I actually feel great.
29:36.384 --> 29:37.806
[SPEAKER_06]: because there's been a change in management.
29:38.006 --> 29:40.669
[SPEAKER_06]: You can feel it in the wind as you will surely remember.
29:41.030 --> 29:50.121
[SPEAKER_06]: President Trump has promised that these schools of they don't crack down on anti-Semitism on campus, they're going to lose their federal funding, they're going to lose their accreditation, and individual students.
29:50.961 --> 29:53.102
[SPEAKER_06]: who are running around chanting how much they love Hamas.
29:53.182 --> 29:57.365
[SPEAKER_06]: If they are not U.S. citizens and they're here on visas, those visas are going to get canceled.
29:58.345 --> 29:59.326
[SPEAKER_06]: So that's all coming.
29:59.506 --> 30:00.766
[SPEAKER_07]: Where does that leave free speech?
30:01.447 --> 30:07.190
[SPEAKER_07]: If you out there, visibly supporting Hamas, and you're not an American citizen.
30:07.230 --> 30:08.491
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you can be deported from that.
30:08.531 --> 30:13.653
[SPEAKER_06]: American citizens are American citizens, but if you are a foreigner here on a visa, you are a guest in our country.
30:13.674 --> 30:17.636
[SPEAKER_06]: You don't have a right to chant death to America in our own country as a guest of our nation.
30:17.656 --> 30:19.677
[SPEAKER_06]: You're out, and President Trump has already promised this.
30:20.137 --> 30:24.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I mean, who wants to take a, who wants to start off with fun?
30:24.600 --> 30:26.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's so much to unpack there.
30:26.141 --> 30:29.844
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the, the total dishonesty in an accuracy, right?
30:29.864 --> 30:39.790
[SPEAKER_00]: It about how the law functions, and then so maybe Chris, you want to react to the law, the legal argument, and the mom would do you want to just react to the absurdity in that argument?
30:40.531 --> 30:46.195
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, let's, let's assume that's accurate.
30:46.695 --> 30:48.837
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, let's assume that was actually happening.
30:50.775 --> 30:59.038
[SPEAKER_05]: That's completely false, the first amendment does not care about your citizenship status.
30:59.638 --> 31:13.682
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like people really don't, like this is like still, I think even now it's like not widely understood that there is no citizenship requirement for constitutional rights.
31:17.266 --> 31:27.289
[SPEAKER_05]: Different requirements, like if you are at the border presenting yourself for entry, your due process rates are different than if you've lived here for 10 years, right?
31:27.829 --> 31:32.590
[SPEAKER_05]: But by and large, the rest of the constitution does not care about your citizenship rights.
31:32.670 --> 31:38.472
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, it is unconstitutional to discriminate against somebody for their citizens' status.
31:38.772 --> 31:39.232
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why,
31:40.372 --> 31:43.974
[SPEAKER_05]: non-citizens, students, even people here on the offoli can go to public school.
31:44.394 --> 31:48.436
[SPEAKER_05]: It's illegal to not let them, that's alien instrumentation is the technical term.
31:48.916 --> 31:50.637
[SPEAKER_05]: So, the constitution does not care.
31:51.437 --> 32:02.122
[SPEAKER_05]: There is no hierarchy, which makes sense if you think about it, because the concept itself of citizenship, when these documents were when the amendments were written, it
32:03.182 --> 32:13.931
[SPEAKER_05]: It hadn't consolidated anything meaningful, it didn't really mean anything to be a US citizen versus a non-US citizen.
32:13.951 --> 32:15.692
[SPEAKER_05]: So it is incorrect.
32:16.693 --> 32:20.676
[SPEAKER_05]: On the substance, that's the sort of who gets the First Amendment rights.
32:21.617 --> 32:26.721
[SPEAKER_05]: It is completely protected speech to say death to America.
32:32.745 --> 32:50.166
[SPEAKER_05]: you are allowed to say that, you can't act on it, right, you can't go and do something, you can't accept to harm someone or to, you know, I don't know, like January six comes to mind as something that wouldn't be protected speech, though, you know, talk about hypocrisy.
32:51.087 --> 33:01.389
[SPEAKER_05]: But you can say that there is no prohibition, and in fact, in the seminal case that talks about terrorism-related speech, you know, adjacent activities.
33:01.849 --> 33:04.470
[SPEAKER_05]: The court was careful to make this distinction itself, right?
33:04.510 --> 33:16.332
[SPEAKER_05]: It said, giving money, even though money is generally speech and are in our society, et cetera, is like sort of a material action that can be prescribed, but independent
33:20.773 --> 33:23.655
[SPEAKER_05]: that is all protected speech, like you're allowed to do that.
33:24.155 --> 33:36.964
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the idea that the government should be coming in and meanwhile, of course, all these same people are like up and arms when they, you know, for all the other, you know, on their, on their side, when they feel like their speech is being sort of prescribed in any way because they say something horrible.
33:37.384 --> 33:41.067
[SPEAKER_05]: Then then it is, you know, then then it's like, oh, the government is a small government.
33:41.087 --> 33:42.608
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't want the federal government doing anything.
33:43.068 --> 33:45.950
[SPEAKER_05]: But, but it is just incorrect and that is all protected
33:49.332 --> 34:01.699
[SPEAKER_01]: It becomes a source of frustration for me to see the ways in which to language around safety has continually become weaponized in the service of a particular Zionism in this place.
34:02.239 --> 34:07.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm sorry, like, again, I'm not, because I might give my own political persuasion.
34:07.042 --> 34:16.867
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not someone that likes to delve into like identity politics, but just to factor the matter, is materially as a black muslim man living in the afterlife of the war on terror.
34:18.095 --> 34:30.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really walk through the world thinking about it, where I'm like, I hope to be safe, of course, and I would like to be safe, but being unwelcome in places is something that is a feature of life for me.
34:30.704 --> 34:32.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's just what it is, right?
34:34.205 --> 34:36.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and again, it's frustrating.
34:36.126 --> 34:38.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And certainly you're not, you're not like adversities.
34:38.546 --> 34:47.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just jump into one point, at one point, which is that, certainly you're not demanding that people have their constitutional right violated so that you feel safe.
34:48.489 --> 34:51.089
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not what we've got.
34:51.190 --> 34:53.770
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, say, therefore, people should be deported.
34:53.850 --> 34:58.331
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a, right, that doesn't, that's not axiomatic for me, right?
34:58.351 --> 34:59.771
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't follow on from you then.
35:00.171 --> 35:05.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel on, I say, therefore, you can, you have to leave the country and have your life, like, turn upside down.
35:05.192 --> 35:06.372
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make sense.
35:06.392 --> 35:13.173
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially in a campus where I think, which should, what you would expect, it prides itself on free speech and debate.
35:13.193 --> 35:16.014
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, speaking of hypocrisy and level of the institution,
35:17.034 --> 35:21.078
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah before October the 7th, 2023.
35:21.539 --> 35:26.303
[SPEAKER_01]: So Cornell has dedicated theme every year, right?
35:27.718 --> 35:36.566
[SPEAKER_01]: and because of quote-unquote, the left takeover of higher education, Cornell said, we are going to have the year of free speech, right?
35:36.846 --> 35:40.930
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have unculta come to campus and pay upwards of $40,000, right?
35:40.950 --> 35:44.032
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have Ben Shapiro come to campus, right?
35:44.293 --> 35:54.621
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have people, again, people with an unculta, it got so bad, an unculta set Cornell University police on a faculty member and they've got her arrested during her speech.
35:55.322 --> 35:55.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
35:56.002 --> 36:02.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember on campus we used to chant, there is only one solution, into further revolution.
36:02.464 --> 36:09.886
[SPEAKER_01]: We were told, oh, how do you think people are going to feel safe when one solution resembles final solution too much, right?
36:10.306 --> 36:20.669
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I was told that, we're not going to move in any of the other minds until you stop saying that, chant, unsafe because of the resemblance of one solution and final solution.
36:20.709 --> 36:21.489
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being on
36:24.919 --> 36:30.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was a very, it was a cool no led initiative to show that Jews and Muslims on campus are getting along right again.
36:30.622 --> 36:34.264
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really just conflict, but you know how people, you know how liberal will see this stuff.
36:35.044 --> 36:44.989
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember speaking to a Jewish colleague or classmate, whatever, and I said to him, he goes, okay, when I hear the word free Palestine, he said, I feel unsafe.
36:45.009 --> 36:52.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,
36:52.704 --> 36:53.164
[SPEAKER_00]: that you just wanted.
36:53.244 --> 36:54.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:54.045 --> 36:54.385
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
36:54.405 --> 36:54.765
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:54.785 --> 36:55.386
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:55.406 --> 36:55.666
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:55.686 --> 36:56.006
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.026 --> 36:56.347
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.367 --> 36:56.647
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.667 --> 36:57.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.107 --> 36:57.447
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.467 --> 36:57.788
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.828 --> 36:58.128
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:59.549 --> 36:59.889
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
36:59.949 --> 37:00.349
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:00.369 --> 37:00.650
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:00.670 --> 37:01.050
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:01.130 --> 37:01.590
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:01.610 --> 37:02.011
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.051 --> 37:02.491
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.511 --> 37:02.831
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.851 --> 37:03.251
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:03.271 --> 37:03.572
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:03.592 --> 37:04.252
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:04.272 --> 37:07.114
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.134 --> 37:07.615
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.635 --> 37:07.935
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.955 --> 37:08.255
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:08.375 --> 37:08.875
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:08.935 --> 37:09.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:09.536 --> 37:09.996
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:10.036 --> 37:10.437
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:10.537 --> 37:11.177
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:11.197 --> 37:11.958
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:11.978 --> 37:12.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:12.758 --> 37:13.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:13.339 --> 37:13.759
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's our show.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks again to our sponsor Ground News for 40% off unlimited access go to groundnews.com slash useful groundnews.com slash useful.
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37:30.350 --> 37:30.890
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37:34.471 --> 37:36.192
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00:07.510 --> 00:09.351
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Useful Idiots.
00:09.431 --> 00:10.171
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Katie Helper.
00:10.552 --> 00:11.132
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Mary Mattay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for being here.
00:12.232 --> 00:13.293
[SPEAKER_03]: Our website is Useful Idiots.
00:13.333 --> 00:14.153
[SPEAKER_03]: podcast.com.
00:14.654 --> 00:16.354
[SPEAKER_03]: Go there to support the show and get bonus content.
00:16.755 --> 00:28.680
[SPEAKER_00]: So if people may know Cornell University and the New York Attorney General have been exposed for really dropping the ball on investigation into an alleged rape at Cornell University.
00:29.241 --> 00:33.603
[SPEAKER_00]: And to discuss this, we are joined by Cornell PhD student Mamadoo Tau.
00:34.123 --> 00:37.988
[SPEAKER_00]: who was treated very differently by Cornell and by the U.S. government.
00:38.429 --> 00:42.194
[SPEAKER_00]: His crime being protesting for a free Palestine.
00:42.414 --> 00:45.238
[SPEAKER_03]: But first, we do a weekly recap segment called the Friday Free for All.
00:45.398 --> 00:46.739
[SPEAKER_03]: It's for our paid subscribers.
00:46.760 --> 00:48.502
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're a free subscriber, here's a preview.
00:51.290 --> 00:57.014
[SPEAKER_03]: This week in Russia, fear mongering, there's been all this talk about Russia invading a NATO country, Russia's hybrid threat.
00:57.034 --> 01:04.460
[SPEAKER_03]: So, well, at a joint press conference with Nitori Secretary General Mark Rootay, the Prime Minister of Lithuania kind of blew all this up.
01:05.502 --> 01:27.817
[SPEAKER_09]: Brett is there for the society, but you can't exaggerate and say, oh, something is happening in upcoming months or weeks, but what I was addressing also Secretary General is there any proof intelligence services are providing something on the table that Russia is getting ready for something and there is actually none.
01:27.837 --> 01:33.621
[SPEAKER_09]: So I mean the risk remains, but it's not fluctuating or is it increasing
01:34.720 --> 01:36.940
[SPEAKER_00]: Did he get shot with like true serum or something?
01:37.520 --> 01:43.582
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's like, can you imagine if corporate journalists asked the same question that this Lithuania leader is, is there any proof?
01:43.722 --> 01:57.604
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, much better this world would be, it's simply we subjected claims about adversaries like Russia to have an entry standards, like he's doing, and it's so awkward because he's doing it next to Secretary General Mark Rutte, of NATO, who's like one of the biggest Russian fear monitors around.
01:58.044 --> 02:03.585
[SPEAKER_03]: And watch how Mark Rutte has to scramble to insist that, really, yeah, no, Russia is up to no good.
02:04.078 --> 02:15.863
[SPEAKER_08]: You've heard the Supreme Health Command yesterday saying, hey, when able, when you're assured the solutions, or almost sure the solutions attribute it to the Russians, exact like Estonia did today, I applaud it.
02:16.323 --> 02:23.627
[SPEAKER_03]: So according to my great day, we should attribute anything to the Russians, either when we're sure or when we're almost sure.
02:23.647 --> 02:25.688
[SPEAKER_03]: So even for a night's share, we can still blame Russia.
02:26.048 --> 02:30.810
[SPEAKER_00]: Just as a reminder, people probably remember this, but this is the guy who likes to call Trump daddy.
02:31.368 --> 02:35.951
[SPEAKER_03]: No, well, call Trump daddy and blame Russia if everything, even when you're not sure.
02:36.032 --> 02:40.915
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way of the leader of the transatlantic military alliance.
02:41.576 --> 02:47.020
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, turning to another influential person, unfortunately, that's Mark Dubuets.
02:47.060 --> 02:52.243
[SPEAKER_03]: He is the CEO of the Foundation for the Defense of democracies, which is basically Israeli front group.
02:53.204 --> 03:00.409
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been legislation in advance recently that merges the US and Israeli militaries and basically safeguards any attempt to roll that back.
03:01.570 --> 03:03.431
[SPEAKER_03]: should an elected leader try to do that in the future.
03:03.832 --> 03:09.475
[SPEAKER_03]: And Mark Dubuets is so excited about this because by merging the US and Israel even more than they currently are.
03:09.535 --> 03:11.096
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to imagine and even tighter lines.
03:11.616 --> 03:18.200
[SPEAKER_03]: This means that if anything bad happen to Israel in the future, this will also impose costs Mark Dubuets explains on the US too.
03:18.540 --> 03:35.935
[SPEAKER_02]: This same financial system that the U.S. has, it gives us enormous leverage against our adversaries like Iran, Russia, China, and certainly non-state terrorist organizations, is now going to give theoretically a future American administration enormous leverage against our ally Israel.
03:36.456 --> 03:39.258
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the less than I wanted Israelis to understand.
03:39.338 --> 03:39.578
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
03:40.239 --> 03:44.400
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not an argument for Israelis to decouple from America.
03:44.500 --> 03:45.901
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's exactly the opposite.
03:45.921 --> 03:46.981
[SPEAKER_02]: It's what you said earlier.
03:47.001 --> 03:48.702
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've got to make the relationship deeper.
03:49.282 --> 03:50.842
[SPEAKER_02]: Integrate our defense industries.
03:51.423 --> 03:55.744
[SPEAKER_02]: Integrate technology intelligence, finance, research, supply chains.
03:56.264 --> 04:07.548
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to make Israel so valuable that Americans strategic interests that weaponizing that financial relationship against Israel is going to impose costs on the United States itself.
04:08.215 --> 04:09.155
[SPEAKER_03]: What a great friend, huh?
04:09.755 --> 04:15.176
[SPEAKER_03]: Like wishing harm on the U.S. if bad things happen to Israel, that's the Israeli promise.
04:16.016 --> 04:36.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really, really dipping into the dual loyalty trope there, bro, where Jews are loyal to Israel before to the U.S., and it's ironic that these people, these major Israel supporters, are always accusing Israel critics of tropes here, anti-Semitic tropes there, stereotypes, and then they're,
04:38.897 --> 04:44.921
[SPEAKER_03]: And for the full Friday for you for all, where you get to hear the latest excuse that Republicans are coming up with for high energy prices.
04:44.961 --> 04:47.122
[SPEAKER_03]: They've tried Ukraine, they've tried Biden.
04:47.443 --> 04:48.864
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll never guess who they're blaming next.
04:49.324 --> 04:57.009
[SPEAKER_03]: Plus, we hear a brand new initiative from Secretary of War, Pete Higgseth, bringing, I guess, himself, even closer to God.
04:57.069 --> 04:57.589
[SPEAKER_03]: Imagine that.
04:58.090 --> 05:00.051
[SPEAKER_03]: Go to our website, useloeditspodcast.com.
05:00.503 --> 05:13.591
[SPEAKER_00]: A New York prosecutor has reopened a sexual assault investigation at Cornell University after a woman alleged she'd been drugged, assaulted, and gang raped by seven former and current members of the Kai-5 fraternity in 2024.
05:14.131 --> 05:24.498
[SPEAKER_00]: The allegations came in a lawsuit filed this month by a woman identified only as Jane Doe, who says campus officials and law enforcement failed to take her accusations seriously.
05:24.918 --> 05:37.316
[SPEAKER_00]: To discuss this case and the rank apocracy surrounding it, we are joined by Mama Dutal, a PhD student at Cornell University who was punished for the crime of protesting genocide.
05:37.797 --> 05:39.920
[SPEAKER_00]: We also speak to his lawyer, Chris Godshaw.
05:45.363 --> 05:47.546
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show, Chris and Mama do.
05:48.046 --> 05:50.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, thanks for having us.
05:50.809 --> 05:51.370
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
05:51.390 --> 05:52.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for joining.
05:52.972 --> 05:59.459
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the Cornell 7 story in which a woman has accused a
06:04.725 --> 06:06.045
[SPEAKER_00]: in 2024.
06:06.646 --> 06:17.228
[SPEAKER_00]: She alleges that while they sexually assaulted her, a message was sent to a frat house Snapchat group that stated there was free PUSS-Y upstairs.
06:17.808 --> 06:30.531
[SPEAKER_00]: According to University's president, two of the accused were expelled, two suspended for at least two semesters, one had already graduated before any punishment could be handed down, and two were found not to be responsible for sexual misconduct, and quote,
06:31.091 --> 06:32.793
[SPEAKER_00]: No one has been arrested since.
06:33.173 --> 06:40.039
[SPEAKER_00]: The complaint also asserts that the students were quote afforded the opportunity to mitigate their conduct by submitting essays to Cornell.
06:40.740 --> 06:44.723
[SPEAKER_00]: And quote, a New York prosecutor has reopened investigation into the matter.
06:45.324 --> 06:53.851
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people online have been contrasting the treatment of the accused rapist at Cornell with actual protesters.
06:54.792 --> 07:02.839
[SPEAKER_00]: at Cornell, but more generally the treatment of student protesters, pro-Palestine protesters, free speech protesters.
07:03.420 --> 07:04.821
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you lay this out?
07:04.841 --> 07:12.247
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think maybe Chris, we can hand it to you first to give us the kind of the rundown of the Cornell rape case.
07:12.788 --> 07:15.029
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, obviously, Mama, do I want to hear your thoughts?
07:15.690 --> 07:18.973
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure, you know, so I've been following this like everybody else.
07:19.353 --> 07:20.894
[SPEAKER_05]: It seems to me, right, that
07:22.095 --> 07:26.138
[SPEAKER_05]: There was this initial activity in 2024 when this was reported.
07:26.699 --> 07:36.587
[SPEAKER_05]: Internal activity in Cornell is a little bit unclear, the extent to which this was investigated.
07:36.707 --> 07:41.932
[SPEAKER_05]: Beyond, we do know that there was the internal student disciplinary process.
07:41.972 --> 07:47.496
[SPEAKER_05]: We know that there was two expulsions and a suspension and various other
07:48.257 --> 07:52.599
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, consequence is ranging from nothing to something less severe than suspicion.
07:53.940 --> 08:00.904
[SPEAKER_05]: We do know also that there was a police report shared with the district attorney's office.
08:01.184 --> 08:14.811
[SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like from what I've seen from interviews with the DA that the only thing they saw was a six-page sort of layout from Cornell's investigation that didn't go any farther.
08:15.071 --> 08:15.812
[SPEAKER_05]: That was kind of like
08:16.292 --> 08:23.757
[SPEAKER_05]: We handled it, don't worry about it, here we go, and nothing was further sort of done about it fast forward a couple years later.
08:24.177 --> 08:41.008
[SPEAKER_05]: And now, you know, the victim, the alleged victim, who is remains anonymous, has filed a civil suit against the perpetrators, the university, and various other actors who were involved in this investigation.
08:42.089 --> 08:42.349
[SPEAKER_05]: I think
08:43.213 --> 08:51.062
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'm going to turn me right I'm going to turn me and all I do all day is complaining about do process violations.
08:51.082 --> 08:59.832
[SPEAKER_05]: So I I'm I'm aware of and I'm I'm I'm cautious right when it comes to jumping to conclusions right.
09:01.275 --> 09:10.398
[SPEAKER_05]: it is absolutely 100% the case that anyone accuses of any sort of criminal activity, whether it's at a university or not, deserves due process.
09:11.018 --> 09:15.480
[SPEAKER_05]: What's disturbing, I think here is a few things.
09:15.880 --> 09:24.243
[SPEAKER_05]: One is it's unclear to everyone how thorough the Cornell investigation was.
09:26.288 --> 09:35.433
[SPEAKER_05]: clearly the actions were severe enough and Cornell was aware that they were severe enough to warrant expulsion for two of the students.
09:36.873 --> 09:47.179
[SPEAKER_05]: Beyond that, they've sort of, it seems to me, hidden behind privacy, you know, obligations, which to be fair, of course there are privacy obligations.
09:48.219 --> 09:51.581
[SPEAKER_05]: There's been, I've seen some defenses, you know, from
09:53.469 --> 10:03.316
[SPEAKER_05]: the DA and from Cornell that imply that their hands were sort of tied, right, that there was nothing they could disclose beyond the fact of the investigation.
10:03.636 --> 10:05.397
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not entirely true.
10:07.158 --> 10:10.040
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, when there are allegations
10:11.261 --> 10:21.828
[SPEAKER_05]: substantiated allegations, of course, it seems, if there was explosions, that rise to the level of criminal activity in this category, right, in regards to sexual misconduct.
10:22.528 --> 10:32.575
[SPEAKER_05]: There are limited disclosures that are permissible, I think it's absurd to say, that like Title IX says that universities are not allowed to report
10:33.427 --> 10:43.082
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, what they believe to be an actual rape, right, a criminal sexual assault to the police.
10:44.421 --> 10:51.002
[SPEAKER_05]: get given that they've expelled somebody and that I don't think necessarily should be the bar, but like clearly surpassed it if you're expelling people.
10:51.943 --> 10:54.483
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not easy to get expelled from a university, right?
10:54.503 --> 10:56.104
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not, they're not just doing that willingly.
10:56.504 --> 11:04.605
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm alarmed by the fact that there was just this six page report that just seemed to be like, you know, don't worry about it.
11:05.105 --> 11:07.846
[SPEAKER_05]: And then on top of that, you have the DA that just sort of, you know,
11:09.300 --> 11:12.001
[SPEAKER_05]: I get that the Cornell police are sort of, you know, they're deputized.
11:12.061 --> 11:13.342
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like it's own police force.
11:13.882 --> 11:19.665
[SPEAKER_05]: There's some amount of expected, you know, deference, I suppose.
11:20.186 --> 11:28.410
[SPEAKER_05]: But clearly the Cornell police force and the Cornell disciplinary authorities are not equipped to deal with criminal sexual misconduct.
11:29.010 --> 11:37.074
[SPEAKER_05]: And the fact that there was sort of just no follow-up, it seems, and everyone's sort of like, well, we didn't know, is pretty absurd to me.
11:39.340 --> 11:49.371
[SPEAKER_05]: So all of that is to say, of course, that like, the investigation, I just, I think I saw that Cornell has agreed to an independent investigation that DA has reopened the case.
11:50.012 --> 11:53.576
[SPEAKER_05]: That is all appropriate.
11:53.616 --> 11:58.561
[SPEAKER_05]: The discourse around, of course, we've entered into the period where the discourse is all.
11:59.322 --> 12:18.086
[SPEAKER_05]: picking apart every word she's ever said to be, you know, ignoring the fact that like ignoring all the things we know about what happens to somebody in a situation like this and the recollections and the ways that people sort of try to, you know, rationalize things and all of the pressures to not have to go through this process, right?
12:18.647 --> 12:24.628
[SPEAKER_05]: The discourse around sort of like picking apart everything she said to jump to the defense as if like,
12:25.743 --> 12:33.946
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this is, it's wrong to ask the question, even in the first place because you're going to ruin their lives, is pretty ridiculous to me.
12:34.346 --> 12:49.932
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to get into it, of course, but the, you know, I'll just note, of course, the stark contrast between the abundant concern for due process and all of these protections for people accused of sexual assault on university campuses like Cornell.
12:50.332 --> 12:52.553
[SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, Cornell is like, you know,
12:53.373 --> 12:56.996
[SPEAKER_05]: running mom would do out of the country without any sort of like, you know, qualms about it.
12:58.397 --> 13:05.042
[SPEAKER_05]: To be clear, the answer there is due process for both not, due process for neither.
13:06.483 --> 13:09.446
[SPEAKER_05]: But the contrast is stark.
13:09.966 --> 13:15.670
[SPEAKER_00]: So mom would do talk us through what you were doing on campus that got you in trouble, what you did and what you said.
13:15.730 --> 13:18.673
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Chris, have you explained how legally they tried to
13:20.681 --> 13:26.749
[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended twice, first time I was suspended was quote unquote involvement in the encampment.
13:26.829 --> 13:35.860
[SPEAKER_01]: So building an unauthorized installation on campus, and I want to note that as I said, I was suspended within five hours of the encampment being put up.
13:36.160 --> 13:36.821
[SPEAKER_01]: So they don't know.
13:38.103 --> 13:41.105
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know who actually was involved in building the encampments.
13:41.125 --> 13:45.468
[SPEAKER_01]: Second time, that I brought down what we brought down the group.
13:45.588 --> 13:51.653
[SPEAKER_01]: I brought to a close a recruitment drive for weapons manufacturers who were targets of our investment campaign.
13:52.173 --> 13:53.954
[SPEAKER_01]: I attended the protests for five minutes.
13:54.775 --> 14:11.369
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was told, but because upon leaving, the Cornell chief of police had become accustomed to my face, he recognized me and in a haste said, Mamodhu was there, right, even though I had been there, my presence exceeded no longer in five minutes.
14:11.749 --> 14:22.819
[SPEAKER_01]: And that affected me, placed on the house arrest and then finally, bringing a lawsuit against Trump, the government administration, challenging the executive orders, the constitutionality of them,
14:23.399 --> 14:31.424
[SPEAKER_01]: that then put into motion a whole set of processes, which resulted in me having just going to hiding and then eventually self-deportation.
14:32.405 --> 14:38.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happened to the other students involved in the encampment and in this reaction to the recruitment event?
14:39.268 --> 14:44.471
[SPEAKER_01]: Some was suspended, some there was criminal charges brought against fear of them, but they were eventually dropped.
14:45.291 --> 14:52.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And some were also banned of campus, but many were also let free, right?
14:52.736 --> 14:58.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I think it's the context of people saw me as a leader, so therefore I had to get rid of you.
15:01.739 --> 15:06.181
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to tell you about a tool that helps us sift through the propaganda of corporate news.
15:06.281 --> 15:07.641
[SPEAKER_00]: It's our sponsor, Ground News.
15:07.741 --> 15:19.226
[SPEAKER_00]: They built a program that lets you search a specific news story and then it shows you every outlet that's reported on it so that you can see the bias of those outlets and figure out which headline is the most accurate.
15:19.566 --> 15:20.286
[SPEAKER_03]: So here's a story.
15:20.326 --> 15:26.869
[SPEAKER_03]: This week, the Lebanese Army reported that it is really strike on a Lebanese Army vehicle wounded a soldier and three civilians.
15:27.489 --> 15:29.850
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's use Ground News to compare how different outlets
15:31.813 --> 15:38.436
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so TRT World says is really strike on Lebanese Army vehicle injures soldier three civilians.
15:39.056 --> 15:49.860
[SPEAKER_00]: Al Arabias says Lebanese Army says is really strike wounds for including soldier and free press cash mirror says one Lebanese soldier three civilians wounded in Nabatea strike.
15:50.320 --> 15:53.362
[SPEAKER_03]: So Al Arabia is the Saudi state on network and
15:55.000 --> 16:19.088
[SPEAKER_03]: they use the classic like Lebanese army says like Palestinian say not just I mean I guess they're just trying to go for accuracy maybe they couldn't confirm the story of themselves so not that big a deal but still like I mean given that Israel's carrying out content attacks inside Lebanon and given their problem with video footage of this I don't even think you need the Lebanese army says and of course free press catch mirror
16:20.505 --> 16:22.206
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, who carried out the strike?
16:22.226 --> 16:25.348
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the classic thing where if Israel does it, we don't find out who did it.
16:25.868 --> 16:26.188
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
16:26.228 --> 16:26.489
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:26.869 --> 16:27.149
[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
16:27.249 --> 16:29.951
[SPEAKER_03]: Probably happen to the celebrity soldier in three civilians who did.
16:30.031 --> 16:37.235
[SPEAKER_03]: And free press catch mirror is following the lead of the near times, which also looks the race is really agency whenever Israel is a fall.
16:37.815 --> 16:41.716
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so rare that you hear Israel says, right?
16:41.797 --> 16:48.599
[SPEAKER_00]: Or like you always hear Hamas controlled health ministry, you never hear like liquid controlled army.
16:49.159 --> 16:53.521
[SPEAKER_00]: So just another example of how what Israel said is presented as fact.
16:54.081 --> 16:59.383
[SPEAKER_00]: and what Palestine, Palestinians say or what Lebanese say is presented as allegation.
16:59.883 --> 17:11.108
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though ironically, I mean how many times does these rarely government have to lie before you take what they say with a grain of salt, with a huge pillar of kosher salt?
17:11.697 --> 17:22.644
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to parse through the news, like we just did, go to groundnews.com slash useful to get 40% off on limited access that's groundnews.com slash useful groundnews.com slash useful.
17:22.704 --> 17:24.325
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[SPEAKER_00]: And Chris, can you just explain how they possibly were attempted to criminalize these actions?
20:12.764 --> 20:22.708
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, so it's interesting to use or criminalize, right, because one of the great fictions of immigration law is that it's all civil, right?
20:22.848 --> 20:25.129
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's, they don't even have to criminalize it, right?
20:25.589 --> 20:29.310
[SPEAKER_05]: It more or less happened fairly honestly and out in the open, right?
20:29.330 --> 20:32.851
[SPEAKER_05]: And what they didn't really bother to do a lot of, like, slight of hand.
20:33.372 --> 20:33.732
[SPEAKER_05]: It was,
20:35.169 --> 21:03.115
[SPEAKER_05]: The executive orders direct various actors in the government, including the Department of Homeland Security to identify students in particular, who are not citizens, who engage in insert their broad understanding of anti-Semitic activity, and look at that, and decide, really just decide, like literally a clerk,
21:05.733 --> 21:08.194
[SPEAKER_05]: determines that somebody's visa should be revoked.
21:09.155 --> 21:16.458
[SPEAKER_05]: And there are various reasons in the statute that allow the State Department to revoke visas.
21:17.638 --> 21:23.341
[SPEAKER_05]: And some of them, like Muhammad Khalil's case, is the National Security Ground and has to be done by the Secretary himself.
21:24.361 --> 21:32.525
[SPEAKER_05]: Others, the one that was invoked for Muhammadu, is like a catch all any reason that you want, basically.
21:34.609 --> 21:37.611
[SPEAKER_05]: they invoked and they said your visas cancelled.
21:38.452 --> 21:45.077
[SPEAKER_05]: And that is it, that's all that once your visas cancelled, it's as if you overstate a visa or you came unlawfully, right?
21:45.158 --> 21:49.561
[SPEAKER_05]: So that is what triggers the entire removal process.
21:50.182 --> 21:57.527
[SPEAKER_05]: And importantly, it is almost impossible to get a court to review that action.
21:58.028 --> 22:00.510
[SPEAKER_05]: The revocation of the visa itself
22:03.421 --> 22:07.043
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, just completely insulated from court review.
22:07.063 --> 22:09.264
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's like no due process.
22:09.765 --> 22:14.027
[SPEAKER_05]: When it comes to that, it is just like, how did they criminalize it?
22:14.087 --> 22:15.348
[SPEAKER_05]: They said it was, they said it.
22:16.008 --> 22:16.889
[SPEAKER_05]: That's it.
22:16.929 --> 22:18.369
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the answer.
22:18.870 --> 22:19.870
[SPEAKER_05]: They just decided that.
22:20.050 --> 22:21.411
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, there's nothing more to it.
22:21.992 --> 22:29.216
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope if this young woman who's the next victim sees this or his this, that she knows that so many people in the world are in Hau Kona,
22:30.016 --> 22:38.221
[SPEAKER_01]: and I think that's really important but I think that it deserves the attention that it's getting and I'm praying that she gets justice that she's rightfully deserves.
22:38.962 --> 22:54.952
[SPEAKER_01]: I also want to then in the same breath bring up that we have to take note of the disparity in reaction to something as so heinous as a gang rape to the fact that it speaks to a culture which we
22:57.975 --> 23:07.071
[SPEAKER_01]: versus anti-genicide activity because at end of the day, I am set out of the US and able to return to the US right now.
23:07.843 --> 23:13.465
[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended twice, one for an encampment, which I now suspended on day one.
23:13.885 --> 23:23.448
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, when an international student is suspended, it's put into motion this whole question of are there in status and therefore are there is there visa valid?
23:24.148 --> 23:27.389
[SPEAKER_01]: I was suspended within about four hours of the encampment going up.
23:28.130 --> 23:33.852
[SPEAKER_01]: No investigation, no due process, which meant I would have to leave the country and I was told within 48 hours.
23:35.380 --> 23:35.660
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
23:36.521 --> 23:41.624
[SPEAKER_01]: After backlash, Kornal relented their position and I was given some conditions to fulfill.
23:42.704 --> 23:46.647
[SPEAKER_01]: In September of 2024, I attended a protest at Spatler Hotel.
23:47.047 --> 23:54.111
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's good to note, this is for me, some of the greatest forms of evidence that points to this disparity.
23:55.232 --> 24:03.357
[SPEAKER_01]: That one event in where Rindor was a peaceful protest and we brought to a closed recruitment fair for what was my weapon's manufacturing?
24:04.686 --> 24:13.309
[SPEAKER_01]: that had five campus wide notifications, go out by the president, condemning that event, right?
24:14.169 --> 24:22.051
[SPEAKER_01]: We had in the faculty senate, they were bringing up my tweets to prove why I should not be on campus.
24:22.791 --> 24:31.354
[SPEAKER_01]: In that meeting, when I left that meeting, a police officer was waiting for me to give me a form that declared me persona non-grata on campus.
24:32.214 --> 24:43.438
[SPEAKER_01]: I was drawn a map of where I cannot go on campus and effectively because I lived on campus that meant I could leave my house and turn left and not write.
24:43.778 --> 24:44.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I was asked.
24:44.759 --> 24:49.360
[SPEAKER_01]: I was told I have to give details, intimate details of every time I want to attend.
24:49.721 --> 24:55.803
[SPEAKER_01]: If I need to see a doctor at Cornell Health and I think this for me is like the sticking point.
24:56.666 --> 25:00.409
[SPEAKER_01]: I would declare the safety concern for Cornel's campus.
25:00.990 --> 25:08.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Ban from teaching, ban from even my request to pray Cornel's campus was denied except for Friday prayer.
25:10.252 --> 25:13.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay guys, like again, we're like, where do we go with this?
25:13.674 --> 25:15.195
[SPEAKER_01]: What can we say with this, right?
25:15.235 --> 25:20.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I have not committed a crime, nor have I been accused of committing a crime.
25:20.659 --> 25:29.785
[SPEAKER_01]: My only crime and Chris knows it better than most because he was a part of my legal team was I call unquote unsafe environment for Jewish students on campus.
25:30.836 --> 25:34.359
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, once again, it's language of safety, but I hang on a minute, that begs the question.
25:34.900 --> 25:40.104
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can drug someone, put it on a group chat with 54 people and say, come and get free.
25:40.525 --> 25:42.026
[SPEAKER_01]: People know what was said.
25:42.526 --> 25:43.447
[SPEAKER_01]: P, let's say.
25:43.888 --> 25:44.188
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
25:44.768 --> 25:48.332
[SPEAKER_01]: That can be, and then you write a letter and go to classes normal.
25:49.112 --> 26:02.575
[SPEAKER_01]: But someone who is a facilitator, a teacher, an academic who has not been accused of any crimes, I am not allowed on campus because all I said is I'm free Palestine, right?
26:03.135 --> 26:13.077
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's very, we have to know what is happening here and I think it goes to the heart of what this university is actually, and this moment, right?
26:13.137 --> 26:15.238
[SPEAKER_01]: We are in a crisis of higher education,
26:17.038 --> 26:28.068
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think fundamentally, things like closing down a career's fair, messes with Cornel's bottom line terms of this money in terms of how it's interactions with various companies, right?
26:28.429 --> 26:32.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Likewise, we know that frets are money for Cornel campuses.
26:32.673 --> 26:35.916
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that alumni vote as an alumni donate money.
26:35.936 --> 26:37.857
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a last point I would say.
26:38.862 --> 26:56.192
[SPEAKER_01]: We see this kind of outside interference, but just as recently as two or three months ago, there was a communication that was sent out by conservative alumni across various mailboxes, congratulating Mike Kotlikov for getting rid of the leading student agitator.
26:56.933 --> 26:59.955
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Kotlikov is the current president of Cornell.
27:00.597 --> 27:07.123
[SPEAKER_01]: There is not that same energy to get rid of these students who are accused of committing a gang rape.
27:07.363 --> 27:09.184
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, we have to really put this together.
27:09.985 --> 27:23.257
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, even when they did the, when they were forced to do this like interim, when you mentioned the sort of how quickly they were like your person or non-grad or you're suspended, you're doing all these things.
27:23.637 --> 27:27.881
[SPEAKER_05]: When they, the language they used, when they had to do this interim suspensions, they were like,
27:28.421 --> 27:39.404
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry, it's just a precaution, like we're not saying you did anything wrong, we're just kind of like, you know, just to, you know, keep the temperature down, we're gonna do this, and then you're all gonna be welcome back.
27:39.564 --> 27:57.188
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, even when they do the thing that like people would expect, it's like they have to, they twist themselves and to nots to make people, you know, feel like they're not overreacting, but the moment it's a anti-genous hypothesis, it touches their bottom line, you know what you said?
27:58.608 --> 28:03.912
[SPEAKER_05]: international news and they have no issues just like running somebody out of the country.
28:04.172 --> 28:04.392
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:04.873 --> 28:09.176
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to actually show the New York Post coverage of your case.
28:09.516 --> 28:11.057
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that you were referred to.
28:11.898 --> 28:22.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a look at this article, Zionist Org-Prep's List of Farm Pro, Hamas Student Toping Trumpled Deport, then which honestly isn't somewhat kind of more honest than usual from the New York Post.
28:24.106 --> 28:41.838
[SPEAKER_00]: as opposed to like what you really expect for them to say is like here's the list of of students who must be deported at least they presented that way but at and by the way I want to I should fold this closure I also was on a list of people who bait our
28:42.438 --> 28:45.300
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of like called for to be banned from Israel.
28:46.040 --> 28:51.223
[SPEAKER_00]: There goes my spring grade plans and also predicted what didn't be right wouldn't be led into Israel.
28:51.263 --> 28:58.368
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's funny is they also predicted that like Tony Jutt and Adrian Rich won't be led in, which is true because they both passed away years ago.
28:59.768 --> 29:08.814
[SPEAKER_00]: This New York Post embeds a video from Fox News addressing the fears, uh, alleged fears and, uh, of Jewish students on campuses.
29:09.255 --> 29:18.883
[SPEAKER_07]: A new report shows that 72% of Jewish college students in the U.S. feel unwelcome on campus, more than half, say they've been victims of anti-Semitism.
29:19.244 --> 29:20.184
[SPEAKER_07]: John Levine is with us.
29:20.565 --> 29:21.465
[SPEAKER_07]: What's been done about this?
29:22.626 --> 29:26.610
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, this is obviously terrible, but it's also something we kind of could have predicted.
29:26.630 --> 29:34.837
[SPEAKER_06]: We would've all lived through the last year, we've seen every single day almost on some of these campuses, these protests chanting in favor of Hamas and whatever else, but I'm not worried at all.
29:35.117 --> 29:35.878
[SPEAKER_06]: I actually feel great.
29:36.384 --> 29:37.806
[SPEAKER_06]: because there's been a change in management.
29:38.006 --> 29:40.669
[SPEAKER_06]: You can feel it in the wind as you will surely remember.
29:41.030 --> 29:50.121
[SPEAKER_06]: President Trump has promised that these schools of they don't crack down on anti-Semitism on campus, they're going to lose their federal funding, they're going to lose their accreditation, and individual students.
29:50.961 --> 29:53.102
[SPEAKER_06]: who are running around chanting how much they love Hamas.
29:53.182 --> 29:57.365
[SPEAKER_06]: If they are not U.S. citizens and they're here on visas, those visas are going to get canceled.
29:58.345 --> 29:59.326
[SPEAKER_06]: So that's all coming.
29:59.506 --> 30:00.766
[SPEAKER_07]: Where does that leave free speech?
30:01.447 --> 30:07.190
[SPEAKER_07]: If you out there, visibly supporting Hamas, and you're not an American citizen.
30:07.230 --> 30:08.491
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you can be deported from that.
30:08.531 --> 30:13.653
[SPEAKER_06]: American citizens are American citizens, but if you are a foreigner here on a visa, you are a guest in our country.
30:13.674 --> 30:17.636
[SPEAKER_06]: You don't have a right to chant death to America in our own country as a guest of our nation.
30:17.656 --> 30:19.677
[SPEAKER_06]: You're out, and President Trump has already promised this.
30:20.137 --> 30:24.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I mean, who wants to take a, who wants to start off with fun?
30:24.600 --> 30:26.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's so much to unpack there.
30:26.141 --> 30:29.844
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the, the total dishonesty in an accuracy, right?
30:29.864 --> 30:39.790
[SPEAKER_00]: It about how the law functions, and then so maybe Chris, you want to react to the law, the legal argument, and the mom would do you want to just react to the absurdity in that argument?
30:40.531 --> 30:46.195
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, let's, let's assume that's accurate.
30:46.695 --> 30:48.837
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, let's assume that was actually happening.
30:50.775 --> 30:59.038
[SPEAKER_05]: That's completely false, the first amendment does not care about your citizenship status.
30:59.638 --> 31:13.682
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like people really don't, like this is like still, I think even now it's like not widely understood that there is no citizenship requirement for constitutional rights.
31:17.266 --> 31:27.289
[SPEAKER_05]: Different requirements, like if you are at the border presenting yourself for entry, your due process rates are different than if you've lived here for 10 years, right?
31:27.829 --> 31:32.590
[SPEAKER_05]: But by and large, the rest of the constitution does not care about your citizenship rights.
31:32.670 --> 31:38.472
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, it is unconstitutional to discriminate against somebody for their citizens' status.
31:38.772 --> 31:39.232
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why,
31:40.372 --> 31:43.974
[SPEAKER_05]: non-citizens, students, even people here on the offoli can go to public school.
31:44.394 --> 31:48.436
[SPEAKER_05]: It's illegal to not let them, that's alien instrumentation is the technical term.
31:48.916 --> 31:50.637
[SPEAKER_05]: So, the constitution does not care.
31:51.437 --> 32:02.122
[SPEAKER_05]: There is no hierarchy, which makes sense if you think about it, because the concept itself of citizenship, when these documents were when the amendments were written, it
32:03.182 --> 32:13.931
[SPEAKER_05]: It hadn't consolidated anything meaningful, it didn't really mean anything to be a US citizen versus a non-US citizen.
32:13.951 --> 32:15.692
[SPEAKER_05]: So it is incorrect.
32:16.693 --> 32:20.676
[SPEAKER_05]: On the substance, that's the sort of who gets the First Amendment rights.
32:21.617 --> 32:26.721
[SPEAKER_05]: It is completely protected speech to say death to America.
32:32.745 --> 32:50.166
[SPEAKER_05]: you are allowed to say that, you can't act on it, right, you can't go and do something, you can't accept to harm someone or to, you know, I don't know, like January six comes to mind as something that wouldn't be protected speech, though, you know, talk about hypocrisy.
32:51.087 --> 33:01.389
[SPEAKER_05]: But you can say that there is no prohibition, and in fact, in the seminal case that talks about terrorism-related speech, you know, adjacent activities.
33:01.849 --> 33:04.470
[SPEAKER_05]: The court was careful to make this distinction itself, right?
33:04.510 --> 33:16.332
[SPEAKER_05]: It said, giving money, even though money is generally speech and are in our society, et cetera, is like sort of a material action that can be prescribed, but independent
33:20.773 --> 33:23.655
[SPEAKER_05]: that is all protected speech, like you're allowed to do that.
33:24.155 --> 33:36.964
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the idea that the government should be coming in and meanwhile, of course, all these same people are like up and arms when they, you know, for all the other, you know, on their, on their side, when they feel like their speech is being sort of prescribed in any way because they say something horrible.
33:37.384 --> 33:41.067
[SPEAKER_05]: Then then it is, you know, then then it's like, oh, the government is a small government.
33:41.087 --> 33:42.608
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't want the federal government doing anything.
33:43.068 --> 33:45.950
[SPEAKER_05]: But, but it is just incorrect and that is all protected
33:49.332 --> 34:01.699
[SPEAKER_01]: It becomes a source of frustration for me to see the ways in which to language around safety has continually become weaponized in the service of a particular Zionism in this place.
34:02.239 --> 34:07.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm sorry, like, again, I'm not, because I might give my own political persuasion.
34:07.042 --> 34:16.867
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not someone that likes to delve into like identity politics, but just to factor the matter, is materially as a black muslim man living in the afterlife of the war on terror.
34:18.095 --> 34:30.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really walk through the world thinking about it, where I'm like, I hope to be safe, of course, and I would like to be safe, but being unwelcome in places is something that is a feature of life for me.
34:30.704 --> 34:32.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's just what it is, right?
34:34.205 --> 34:36.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and again, it's frustrating.
34:36.126 --> 34:38.506
[SPEAKER_00]: And certainly you're not, you're not like adversities.
34:38.546 --> 34:47.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just jump into one point, at one point, which is that, certainly you're not demanding that people have their constitutional right violated so that you feel safe.
34:48.489 --> 34:51.089
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not what we've got.
34:51.190 --> 34:53.770
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, say, therefore, people should be deported.
34:53.850 --> 34:58.331
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a, right, that doesn't, that's not axiomatic for me, right?
34:58.351 --> 34:59.771
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't follow on from you then.
35:00.171 --> 35:05.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel on, I say, therefore, you can, you have to leave the country and have your life, like, turn upside down.
35:05.192 --> 35:06.372
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't make sense.
35:06.392 --> 35:13.173
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially in a campus where I think, which should, what you would expect, it prides itself on free speech and debate.
35:13.193 --> 35:16.014
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, speaking of hypocrisy and level of the institution,
35:17.034 --> 35:21.078
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah before October the 7th, 2023.
35:21.539 --> 35:26.303
[SPEAKER_01]: So Cornell has dedicated theme every year, right?
35:27.718 --> 35:36.566
[SPEAKER_01]: and because of quote-unquote, the left takeover of higher education, Cornell said, we are going to have the year of free speech, right?
35:36.846 --> 35:40.930
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have unculta come to campus and pay upwards of $40,000, right?
35:40.950 --> 35:44.032
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have Ben Shapiro come to campus, right?
35:44.293 --> 35:54.621
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have people, again, people with an unculta, it got so bad, an unculta set Cornell University police on a faculty member and they've got her arrested during her speech.
35:55.322 --> 35:55.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
35:56.002 --> 36:02.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember on campus we used to chant, there is only one solution, into further revolution.
36:02.464 --> 36:09.886
[SPEAKER_01]: We were told, oh, how do you think people are going to feel safe when one solution resembles final solution too much, right?
36:10.306 --> 36:20.669
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I was told that, we're not going to move in any of the other minds until you stop saying that, chant, unsafe because of the resemblance of one solution and final solution.
36:20.709 --> 36:21.489
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being on
36:24.919 --> 36:30.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was a very, it was a cool no led initiative to show that Jews and Muslims on campus are getting along right again.
36:30.622 --> 36:34.264
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really just conflict, but you know how people, you know how liberal will see this stuff.
36:35.044 --> 36:44.989
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember speaking to a Jewish colleague or classmate, whatever, and I said to him, he goes, okay, when I hear the word free Palestine, he said, I feel unsafe.
36:45.009 --> 36:52.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,
36:52.704 --> 36:53.164
[SPEAKER_00]: that you just wanted.
36:53.244 --> 36:54.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:54.045 --> 36:54.385
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
36:54.405 --> 36:54.765
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:54.785 --> 36:55.386
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:55.406 --> 36:55.666
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:55.686 --> 36:56.006
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.026 --> 36:56.347
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.367 --> 36:56.647
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:56.667 --> 36:57.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.107 --> 36:57.447
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.467 --> 36:57.788
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:57.828 --> 36:58.128
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it.
36:59.549 --> 36:59.889
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
36:59.949 --> 37:00.349
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:00.369 --> 37:00.650
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:00.670 --> 37:01.050
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:01.130 --> 37:01.590
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:01.610 --> 37:02.011
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.051 --> 37:02.491
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.511 --> 37:02.831
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:02.851 --> 37:03.251
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:03.271 --> 37:03.572
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:03.592 --> 37:04.252
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it.
37:04.272 --> 37:07.114
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.134 --> 37:07.615
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.635 --> 37:07.935
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:07.955 --> 37:08.255
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:08.375 --> 37:08.875
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:08.935 --> 37:09.516
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:09.536 --> 37:09.996
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:10.036 --> 37:10.437
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:10.537 --> 37:11.177
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:11.197 --> 37:11.958
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:11.978 --> 37:12.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:12.758 --> 37:13.259
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:13.339 --> 37:13.759
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:13.779 --> 37:14.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:14.359 --> 37:14.680
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:14.700 --> 37:15.180
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:15.200 --> 37:15.560
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:15.580 --> 37:16.101
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:16.341 --> 37:16.981
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:17.001 --> 37:17.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
37:17.722 --> 37:18.022
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing
37:18.365 --> 37:18.905
[SPEAKER_03]: That's our show.
37:18.945 --> 37:27.309
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks again to our sponsor Ground News for 40% off unlimited access go to groundnews.com slash useful groundnews.com slash useful.
37:27.849 --> 37:29.329
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for tuning into this video.
37:29.349 --> 37:29.990
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you next time.
37:30.350 --> 37:30.890
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye, everyone.
37:34.471 --> 37:36.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for tuning into useful idiots.
37:36.432 --> 37:43.335
[SPEAKER_00]: For extended episodes, bonus content and our weekly Friday free for all episode, please subscribe at useful idiotspodcast.com.
37:43.687 --> 37:48.431
[SPEAKER_03]: Support the show for free by subscribing on YouTube, Rumble, and wherever you get your podcast.
37:48.511 --> 37:51.854
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you like the podcast, don't forget to rate and review.
37:52.194 --> 37:55.377
[SPEAKER_03]: You can also follow us on Twitter, X at useful idiot pod.
37:55.898 --> 37:57.719
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much for supporting independent media.
37:57.839 --> 37:58.500
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you next time.
