Compassionate Command: Leading With Clarity and Care with Michelle Pollack

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Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting.
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Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference.
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So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
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Well, good morning, everyone.
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This is Ron Harvey.
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I'm the Vice President, the Chief Operating Officer, founder of Global Core Strategies and Consulting, based out of Columbia, South Carolina.
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Thank y'all for joining us again for all of our guests that's been with us before.
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And for those of you that are new, thank you for joining and hope you come back again and enjoy the show today.
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But this is unpacked.
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The thing that I always give our guests uh you know a great appreciation, because they don't have any of the questions in advance, um, probably because I don't have them yet either.
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Um, but they come on anyway, they say, yeah, let's do it, uh, not worried about it, let's figure it out where we go.
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So we don't know what the questions will be, um, but we're always excited, and we the goal is to talk about leadership and add some value to wherever you are on your journey, um, whether you're leading a small team or a major organization, to tell you about our practical life uh experiences and things we've learned.
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We're both, you know, of coaches.
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You'll hear when uh Michelle comes in, she'll tell you who she is.
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But we love doing what we do.
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So I'm gonna pause because I really like for I guess to do more talking than me.
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Um, but I'm gonna pause and invite her to the microphone and let her introduce herself however she chooses to.
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Welcome, Michelle.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Um, it's great to be here.
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So, um, like many high achievers, I spent many years climbing different ladders.
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Uh, mine probably looked a little bit different than many of your audience members because I worked in the world of entertainment and I got my start in Broadway and working with um the producers of Rent and Avenue Q.
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And then I went and moved over to Hollywood and I worked in network television for quite some time.
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Um, and I had this really shiny, sexy career on the outside.
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Um, and it I was doing all the things that I was supposed to do, getting to the next rung on the ladder, but I still had this internal feeling like something was just off.
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And um over time and over multitudes of different experiences, eventually I realized that the ladder really only ever gives you half the equation.
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It tells you what to do, it tells you the next rung to get to so that you climb and achieve and you get to that top, but it never asks you to pay attention to who you're actually being while you're doing the climbing.
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And that's where I how I landed up where I am today.
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Um, I'm an executive leadership coach and I work in a few different ways.
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Um, I coach high achievers on what I have called, I have determined or named, I guess is the word I'm looking for, um, the art of compassionate command.
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The command is the doing, the compassion is the being.
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And when you only have one, it's kind of like yin and yang.
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You end up feeling successful and stuck at the same time.
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Um, and that's the work I really do now, both with private clients and within corporations.
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It's the leadership framework that I use when I do leadership training within corporations.
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Um, and it's ultimately the foundation of the work I do, even when I'm doing workshops on clear communication and healthy conflict within organizations as well.
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Yes, yes, love it, love it.
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And I'm glad that you you kind of leaned in early, you know, some backdrop of where you were, what you've done, and climbing that ladder and the work that you're in now.
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It meant that you spend a lot of time on the Michelle with higher achievers.
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What when you think about it, because as higher achievers, you know, I'm a veteran, 21 years of military service, and you chase these dreams of success, whatever it is, whether it's a degree, whether it's a certain title or position, but we're we're we're always chasing something.
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Yes.
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When you get to this place as a higher achiever, what's a lie that we as higher achievers tell ourselves on that journey?
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Oh, well, I think the biggest there are two that come to mind when you when you ask that.
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The first is um, when I get to that next place, then I can breathe.
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Then it will feel the way I always imagined it would feel, right?
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And then we get there and we're so excited, we hit that goal, we hit that achievement, we hit that rung on the ladder, and for a second it feels great, and then we find ourselves right back on that hamster wheel trying to get to the feeling.
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There's a feeling that we always thought we were gonna have, and we we can't quite seem to grasp it.
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So that's the first thing.
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And then the second thing is when we when we have that recognition, when we realize that that feeling is not coming in the way that we always imagined it would, I think the other lie that we tell ourselves is we have to blow everything up in order to be able to get there.
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And it's actually the opposite.
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The people I've seen who blow everything up are the ones who don't take a beat to actually do some self-inventory and ask, what's going on?
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Why isn't this working the way I wanted it to?
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And that when you go and go and go, just keep pushing forward without taking that beat, that's when people kind of burn themselves out.
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They, or they end up just feeling like I cannot do this anymore, and they blow it all up.
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But when you actually take that time to take a moment and ask yourself some questions or find a coach to help you to dig deeper into what's going on, because a lot of us don't even know the questions to ask ourselves.
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Um I would say, you know, 70% of my clients, a lot of my clients come to me thinking they're gonna quit their jobs and I'm the last stop because they're like, I can't handle it anymore.
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And they think that when they come to me, they're gonna end up blowing everything up.
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And I would tell you that at least 70% of my clients do not leave the position they're in through our work together, they just shift.
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There are small shifts that you make when you start to do the work that change the bigger picture for you.
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Yeah, I I I love it.
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You know that you're you're leaning in and you're you're you're saying, hey, when people do come, um how you know when you're a higher achiever, how do you make time to do what you're saying?
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Because the higher you go, the less time it feels like you have.
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Everybody has 24 hours.
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Let's be clear.
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Everybody has 24 hours, but the higher you go, it seems like someone took 12 hours away from you.
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How do you make time to do that?
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It's so true, Ron.
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I mean, this is something I battle with myself, right?
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I am I constantly have way more than I can possibly get done.
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And then I get so frustrated with myself that I haven't gotten it done.
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And meanwhile, the way I think that my day operates is like I have 35 waking hours, right?
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So it's so true.
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Here's the thing the amount of time it takes to dig in and do the inner work is so minimal compared to the time you waste not doing it.
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Um, one of my favorite sayings, I did not come up with it, but I don't know where I heard it originally, and I'm sure you've heard it before too, is you gotta slow down to speed up.
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Yes.
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And so if we just keep going, going, going, because I gotta get it done, and that is the productivity, and that is the ladder.
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That is the ladder.
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It goes up, it's linear in one straight direction, but that's not how things work.
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So when we don't take the time to step off the ladder momentarily and explore different paths, and by exploring different paths, I don't even necessarily mean different careers, but the exploration of certain questions or what's going on that's having me feel this way?
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What's happening that's having my team not work in a cohesive manner?
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Why is this employee that I keep working with to get to a certain place?
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Why is that consistently not creating the results that I imagine it's gonna create?
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When we don't stop and ask ourselves those bigger picture questions, we waste a lot of time.
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So I would actually flip that on its head and say, you don't have time not to.
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Yes, yes.
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I love it, I love it.
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And I'll go back to the phrase that you use um because it shifted for me, you know.
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And even as you you're you're coming to a close on your statement, uh, it went from slowdown to stop.
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And I say that it's like a race car driver, I guess is an analogy for everyone that's listening.
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You know, a race car in order to rin the race has to go to a pit stop.
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It comes to a complete stop and refresh, refurbish, refuel.
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But it comes to a complete stop, not a slowdown.
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They make them come into the pit, the cars stop, the tires are changed, the oil is changed, the driver's rehydrated, blah, blah, blah, blah, and the list goes on.
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And then they can get back in and have a chance to win the race.
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But if they don't come to a complete stop and take care of that car, they will never win the race.
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What a fabulous analogy.
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I love it so much because, you know, even I've never really thought about coming to a complete stop.
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I don't, but rest really should be a complete stop.
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Yes.
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And that is a part, I mean, our culture is so antithetical.
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You know, it rest is a terrible thing for high achievers.
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You just go and go and go and go and go.
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And um there, so that element of coming to a complete stop is so important.
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And I think of the work I do more, I don't think of it so much as a complete stop.
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I just think of it as I do think of it as slowing down, but you're still moving ahead.
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Yes, you know, inside of the work I do though, I generally prescribe the stop, the rest for most of my clients, right?
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Because if they don't integrate that, you know, I had a conversation with a client the other day.
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Um, he works in an organization and I've done quite a bit of work within that organization.
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And um, one of the partners is an Energizer bunny.
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He goes and goes and goes, and I honestly feels feel like he barely rests and he thrives on it.
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Um, but this client who's a leader within the organization is brilliant from 9 a.m.
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to 3 p.m.
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And then he crashes.
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And he's had this realization, he's been trying to keep up with his boss, going, going, going.
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And what he's doing from 3 p.m.
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on is actually setting him back.
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Yes.
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And so we're we're playing with it.
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Does he need to come to a complete stop at 3 p.m.?
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And does that stop mean for the rest of the day, or is it a complete stop with an hour to take a walk, or you know, have a meal and read a book, or you know, go for a run, anything that takes his mind out of the game for a moment, so that he's re replenished and refreshed when he comes back in.
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And that's a big part of what I do with my clients is what I call science experiments.
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We don't know what's gonna work because we've never tried it before.
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And so I and the reason I call them in science experiments, whether it's in how you're showing up or what you're doing with your team or how you're propelling your business forward, is because there's so much pressure to get it right.
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And the problem with getting it right is you usually can't get it right without getting it at least partially wrong along the way.
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Yes.
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And we're so averse to the idea of failure and getting it wrong.
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And so I try to reframe it as science experiments because scientists quote, fail all the time.
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They make a hypothesis, they test it out, and then usually it doesn't work the first, second, third, or 20th time.
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They've got to keep iterating on that experiment.
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But where we tend to get it wrong is that when it doesn't work that first time, a lot of times we abandon ship.
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And then you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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We need to take the moment, slow down, to look at okay, what happened here?
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What worked, what didn't, and how do we want to iterate on what or shift what didn't work and build on what did?
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Yes, and that is the process every step of the way, whether it's inner work or outer work, with a huge corporation or an individual who is simply wanting to change the way that they're showing up in their leadership.
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Yeah, and you're so spot on, and help and thank you for walking through that.
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I want to I want to shift a little bit for you.
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I mean, you opened up and you talked about your career and how successful you were.
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I'm gonna actually be transparent here, unpack a little bit for us for the audience, because they'll look at us and we'll make it look easier than it is, or we didn't have any challenges.
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Can you take us back to a moment, you know, in your this light that they call successful, climbing a ladder, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever that looked like for you, and realize the people that were admiring you and watching how successful you were, that they just didn't realize that that wasn't a life that that was meant for you.
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Yeah.
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Because people will watch it and be like, wow, I want to be just like you.
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Like, if only you knew.
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There's a few things that come to mind, but there's one really the the the really big kind of monumental moment for moments for me.
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Um, so when I got out to Hollywood and I I initially landed a job as an assistant to a big creative executive at a television network.
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And the way that you learn in Hollywood is that you listen in on your boss's conversations.
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Um, every single one, unless they tell you to get off the phone because it's private, but you know, um, you listen in on your boss's calls, and you that's how you learn how the system operates, how to get from where you are to where you want to go.
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And one day I was um listening in listening in on my boss's call, and he was on a call with the president of the network, and there was this script for a show, and there was a scene in the script that she didn't like.
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Um, she wanted it out, she didn't feel that it was right for the network.
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And uh I am sitting there listening in on this call, and I'm kind of losing my mind a little bit because I've read the script and I think this scene is imperative, not just to that particular episode, but to the show as a whole.
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Creatively, it felt so important.
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I'm I'm trying, you know, I'm gonna date myself here, but um, there's a scene in Friends that is very iconic.
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Um, Monica, not Monica, I'm sorry, uh Ross is is at he's getting married and he's at the altar with Emily.
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And when he's at the altar about to marry Emily, he says Rachel's name instead of Emily's.
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I mean, it is an iconic friend scene.
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And if you haven't seen it, listeners, you should go back and watch Friends in General because it's just fabulous television.
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But that this scene felt like that, okay?
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And so I go into my boss's office and I'm up in arms.
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I'm 20 something and I'm a little feisty.
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And I'm saying I look at him and I say, David, you cannot let her cut that scene.
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And he looks up at me from his desk and he says to me, Michelle, you're not wrong, but what am I supposed to do?
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She's the president of the network.
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And I was I was furious.
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I walked out of his office and I'm thinking to myself, what are you supposed to do?
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You're supposed to fight for creative integrity, David.
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That's what you're supposed to do, right?
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And I think to myself in that moment, that's never gonna be me.
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I will never lose my creative integrity for to climb the corporate ladder.
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Okay?
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So about four years, a few promotions, several rungs later, I'm now the executive on a show called The New Adventures of Old Christine.
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Uh, it's a show, it's a comedy with Julia Louis Dreyfus, who's just the cream of the crop, the most amazing comedian.
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And I am um I'm reading a script with and I'm reading this scene and it is laugh out loud, funny, and my phone rings.
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And it is the same network uh president, and it's my boss telling me they want me to cut a scene in the script.
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Now, you hope that I'm gonna tell you that I fought for the creative integrity of the script.
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Absolutely, that's what you stand for.
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Exactly.
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And guess what, Ron?
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I didn't.
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I did what I was told because that's how I was climbing the corporate ladder.
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I'd actually, I just it it actually I lost not just my creative integrity, my integrity was like five rungs below me on that corporate ladder.
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Wow.
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And I did not realize it until several years later.
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I didn't realize what was going on.
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I knew I didn't feel good in my body, I knew I didn't like what I was doing, but I did not realize exactly what was happening, that I had become the exact person that I swore I would never be.
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And that happens to so many of us.
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We, you know, whether it's in an internship or until that 10th promotion, we start out, and maybe the first time we don't speak up in a meeting when we have something really great to say.
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And we know it, but we're afraid that we're gonna rock the boat or that the wrong person isn't gonna like it, or that we're not we're gonna appear too big for our britches, right?
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And then maybe three rungs after that, we laugh at a joke that our boss tells that isn't really very funny.
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Yes, and then 10 rungs, you find yourself just like me saying something that your boss said that you hated when they said it to you, and now you're saying it to somebody on your team.
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Yes, yes.
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What puts a bad thing?
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I love that you're sharing it.
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Thank you for the transparency because it happens.
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What are we afraid of to speak the truth at that moment?
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Well, you know, uh for me, I lost sight of what was most important to me as in in the business that I was in.
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And I just was had my focus on get ahead, get ahead, get ahead.
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And because to me, that was success.
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But success that is not aligned with your values is completely empty, and it's where most of us find ourselves either saying, Is this all there is?
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You know, so many people get to the top and they're like, This is it, this is what I've been climbing for.
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And then there's the people who like me, you know, I had the is this all there is.
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I also had moments of flashes of knowing that I was not in the right place, but I buried them, I pushed them down because of some cost fallacy.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:16.799
I didn't want to admit that this all this time I'd put into this career might not actually be what I wanted anymore.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:22.799
It felt like I've come too far and I've done too much and I've spent too much time to actually shift gears.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:38.240
But if I'd actually slowed down and knew about that people like me existed in the world, like you and I, and that I could do some exploration, I don't know where I would be today.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:51.680
Maybe I would be in this career, but maybe I would have stayed and figured out how do I show up in a way that feels aligned with who I am and choose the organization that is aligned with who I want to be.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:57.039
You know, I'm not sure that I ever would have been able to show up that way at the network I was at.
00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:58.000
That's okay.
00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.359
That's how they operate.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.400
There's Nothing bad and wrong about them.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.799
It just wasn't a match for me.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:05.839
Yes.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.240
You know, I was my background was a creative background.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.920
I went to school and got a bachelor's bachelor's in theater.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.759
I was an actress for a little while.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.799
And so the artists are my people.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:38.160
And I, but then the other possibility is perhaps I could have shifted something in the culture there and had them get more curious about what was bumping them in the scene and talking with the writers to find something that worked for both parties.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:39.039
There's so many.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:45.039
If I'd actually explored what who I wanted to be in that role, who knows, right?
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:55.359
And so um, but I think what gets in the way when we feel that way and we know in our body that something is off is fear.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:01.759
I can't that I can't be insubordinate, I can't put push back against leadership.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:08.160
And I think we get very black and white about it, and it's so gray.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:24.960
And if we can actually get curious, both with ourselves and within the organization, curiosity is, I think, one of the most important ways to lead because so much in our world in general is based on assumption.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:25.839
Yes.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:36.960
And so we we come at problems, we come at conflict based on ideas we have, and it's not most of the time, it's actually not the truth.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:49.200
So when you can actually get curious and get into discussion and conversation, who knows if you're gonna where you're gonna land up, but at least you're exploring and it's not dictatorial, you know?
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:50.559
Yeah, yes, yeah.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.359
I love it.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.240
I mean, you you use them quite often, you know, curious.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:24:04.480
The leader that that's listening to us today, um, that's on the fence, um, they may be where you were years ago and trying to figure it out in a career.
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.200
Got it, it costs too much to shift.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:14.480
What's what's the if they were to to get a coach, what should they expect?
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.640
What should that look like or feel like?
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:22.240
Because some people think coaching, you think sports immediately, they don't know how to use a coach of the work that you and I do.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.839
What's the best way to leverage a coach if you decide to get one?
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:31.279
So, listen, there's lots of different ways that people coach.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:42.799
So, and there are like every profession, there are phenomenal coaches, and then there are coaches who just are people who are calling themselves coaches who aren't actually coaching.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:49.680
Yes, one of the most important distinctions I find with coaching is coaches.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:58.000
I mean, my coaching is based on I've said this word 7,000 times already, questions.
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.640
Yes, it's digging deeper.
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:04.559
And a coach is not a consultant.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:13.839
Now, there are coaches who are consultants, but if you want someone to tell you what to do, that is not a coach.
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.319
That is a consultant, and there's a lot of value in that for a lot of people.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:31.839
But you, if you want to figure out who you want to be and how you want to operate and what feels right to you, what you want for your career and for your life, you start with the questions.
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:37.359
The questions lead you into the answers, and your answers do not have to be.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:48.960
You know, I had a client who once said she didn't call me for a very long time because she didn't know exactly what it was that she wanted to get out of our work together.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.240
You don't have to, that's the whole point.
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:20.640
And that's what to me, a co a coach should be able to have you very quickly start to think about things you've never thought about before or that you you may have thought about, but felt too hard to go down that path on your own.
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:26.880
So I think that's the biggest, most important element.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:44.720
But I want to touch on something else you said about sports coaches, because I actually love the analogy of sports for coaches, the coaching we do, because because people think they get to a certain place in their career and they shouldn't need a coach.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:56.799
Do you think that Tom Brady didn't feel like he needed his coach or that Simone Biles was gonna fire her coach when she got to the Olympics?
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:04.160
The more experienced in an athlete, the more they lean in on their coach.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:09.119
Because you cannot read the label from inside the jar.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.799
You cannot see yourself on the court or on the mat or on the balance beam, right?
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:16.079
Or on the field.
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:19.920
You can't see everything when you're in it.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:33.759
Somebody outside of yourself helps you to be able to see things more clearly that you can't see for yourself, so that then you get to operate and elevate in a way that works for you.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:36.319
And that to me is what a coach does.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:36.720
Yeah.
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.079
Yeah, I love it too.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.559
Thanks for sharing on them and unpacking it.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:53.200
You know, for for leaders that are that are listening to that at a high level, you know, until you know, a coach becomes vital at that time because your decisions, that one decision, cost you 10 times more than it costs you at a lower level in the organization.
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.759
You got time and space, and and the higher you go, every decision becomes more critical.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:06.640
So if you're if you're listening to our call and you think, well, I'm at an executive or I'm at this executive position, every decision impacts more than just your daily life now.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.119
So it's super important to have someone to help navigate that space so you're considering it.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.680
I want to talk about, you know, um, as you're talking compassionate command.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:28.160
I want to unpack that a little bit, um, because sometimes, you know, um people don't want to deal with conflict and they they are the feelings and they want to be compassionate, so they don't want to say the the truth because of compassion.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:36.319
How do you help people navigate that space when they're in command and they're they're so connected that they don't want to be honest with the person that they're trying to help?
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.559
How does compassion command work in that space?
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:50.640
So Brene Brown said this, at least she's the first person I said, I heard her say, clear is kind, unclear is unkind.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.519
Yes.
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:58.079
And if you haven't read her, I mean, you should be reading Dare to Lead.
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.160
Everybody, I think it should be required reading.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:23.759
And it doesn't mean you have to agree with everything in the book, but I think that for me, in that model of compassionate command, which I just want to touch on for a second, um really, you know, really what it relates back to is the idea of, and I'm gonna, it's gonna sound woo-woo for a second, but everybody stick with me.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:28.799
Um it relates to the idea of masculine and feminine energy.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:44.000
And I hate that we call these things masculine and feminine energy because these traits that belong to masculine energy and feminine energy are human traits that are imperative both in leadership.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:57.119
Confidence, structure, um, you know, which relate to male, the masculine energy, and compassion and creativity, which relate more to the feminine energy.
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.559
They are both imperative in order for us to succeed.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:18.000
And the leaders that you look at who are having the most success, who have the best retention of their teams, who are the most innovative in their in their field, they are operating with both of those energies.
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:25.680
And so, but because I think it's ridiculous that they're called masculine and feminine, I have changed it to the compassion and the command.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.119
But compassion does not mean being nice and unclear.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:40.960
Compassion means having openness and curiosity to have the hard conversation with somebody.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:51.680
And it means not coming from a place of you know knowing all the answers and just telling them what's wrong.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:57.759
And also it means not coming from a place of one strike and you're out.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:17.759
It means being able to sit down and have the tough conversation where you know it's tough, you acknowledge it's tough, and you give that other person the space to process that they might need, where they don't have to respond in that moment.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:23.680
They get to sit and think about who they want to be in their response so they're not reactive.
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:34.880
Because if you sit someone down and you give them tough feedback that they're not expecting, they're the natural human response is defensiveness.
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:44.319
Now, we all know defensiveness is never gonna serve ourselves or an organization, but that's we're gonna go into fight or flight.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:49.279
We need some space to process and hear and determine.
00:31:49.519 --> 00:32:26.880
So I think you know, we learn calculus in school, and unless you're gonna go be an engineer of some sort, I never used calculus again in my life, but I never learned how to be a healthy communicator or how to be in conflict in a way that was healthy, which is a tool that everybody uses in every element of their life, and so really understanding that those conversations are the key to growth, both within yourself and within your organization.
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:31.440
Your team's not gonna grow if you're not willing to lean into the conflict a little bit.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:47.839
And if we can stop being so frightened of conflict of that word and frightened of bringing forward an issue, because generally we're so scared about it that we come in the room with our armor up, also, right?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:33:04.799
So if we can let our armor down in those conversations and allow the spaciousness for something to not have to be resolved immediately and to support the resolution, that to me is where compassionate command comes into play.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:15.359
It's ownership of what you're needing from that other person and the compassion to give them the space to figure out what they need in order to show up in a better way.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.559
Yes, yes.
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.200
I love it.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.119
And I think you're just you're exactly right.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:24.240
You know, leaders now, the people that we're leading expect for us to have a level of compassion.
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:31.680
Um, the days of uh don't let them see you sweat, um, don't let them know you have emotions and that you struggle as well and you can't make a connection.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.279
I think that if you don't have compassion, you'll lose connection with your people.
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:37.599
When you lose connection, you lose results.
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.599
You know, so I think it's super important to stay connected that you have some level of compassion.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:48.319
So, you know, I'm glad that you have a framework that our listeners can take and know because sometimes you think I can't show compassion.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:49.200
For sure.
00:33:49.440 --> 00:34:17.519
I think that I mean, I love that you're saying that I think in today's world you have to have that, and yet I see time and again leaders who feel that they can't, women who feel worried about being labeled emotional if they are feeling, you know, if they show that compassion or if they show vulnerability, and men who worry about being referred to as sensitive if they lean into that.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:34.159
And yet, um, if you do it with ownership, if you do it in a way that is not reactive and is instead responsive, you will be.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.719
I I mean, this is a big word, but I think you'll be revered for it in a way.
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.199
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:42.639
I mean, I think phenomenal.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.639
I mean, and great conversation for all our listeners.
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:46.480
You know, what we're asking you to do now.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:53.199
We talked about coaching, we talked about compassion, compassionate command, you know, we talked about looking at the ladder, where you're at on the ladder.
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.800
And hopefully we share something with you regardless of where you're sitting at in an organization.
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:07.039
If you haven't encountered some of this yet, keyword yet, just hang around leadership a little while longer, change positions a little while longer, watch the workforce change, watch how society changes.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.800
These are things that you'll use for life across the board.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.119
And so, how do you stay connected to your people?
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:14.719
Show them that you care about them.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.079
That's the reality.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:17.840
Um, why still hold them accountable?
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.840
And it's hard to hold people accountable if they don't feel like you care, you just want results.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:30.880
So, you know, if you listen, is there anything that that we haven't unpacked that's important for you to share with our audience uh before we drop your contact information and the best way to reach you?
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.320
I mean, I think we covered my big buckets pretty well.
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:35.360
Yeah.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:35.760
Yes.
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.559
So I mean, listen, I could have these conversations for days.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.599
We could unpack a lot more because this this conversation is fascinating to me.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:45.840
Um it's why I do it.
00:35:46.000 --> 00:36:01.119
But I think the biggest thing I just uh that that I want to say is I want to call back to something you said about the the the greater your role, the more impact you're having on the organization as a whole, it's not just on you.
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.119
And to tie it back together to how do we take the time?
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:15.920
You know, for a lot of my clients, once we get through that ground level work, that two hours a month that we're talking, that's the time.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.320
That's that big picture time.
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:47.840
And to make sure whether you're doing it with a um, you know, a peer within your organization or a peer outside of your organization, a colleague that you trust and you've you've met along the way, or with a coach, find somebody to help you make sure that you are spending time with the big picture thinking and make sure that you're not just looking at what you want to do, you're also bringing in who you want to be.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.199
Yes, yes.
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:49.760
Thank you.
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:50.880
Thank you so much.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:55.519
So, as we as we come to a close, um, what is the best way to reach you?
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:04.159
Um, for people that are listening, the best contact, you know, what they want to bring on a podcast, use your services, executive coach, leadership development, and training, what's the best way to reach you?
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:09.440
Um, so you can find out more about me on my website, which is just Michellepollock.com.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.320
And I love connecting with people after these interviews.
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:20.000
So if you heard something that really hit home or that you want to chat about a little bit more, send me a DM DM on LinkedIn.
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:26.880
Um, you can find me on LinkedIn and I I will always respond to those DMs and love getting into those conversations.
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:28.159
Yes, yes.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.280
Awesome, awesome.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:30.559
Thank you all so much.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:32.239
And thank you, Michelle, for coming on.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:33.119
I really enjoyed it.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:34.400
I'd love to have you back on the show.
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.480
For those of you that are listening, please share.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.719
Um, we enjoy doing the work that we do.
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.920
But if you need anything that Michelle, I do, you can find us on LinkedIn.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.559
Um, I'm sure, and both of us out there um on LinkedIn.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:46.320
So you can go there, you can go to the website.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:49.920
Just know that we both have, but we'd love to be a support in what you're doing.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.679
And until next time, Michelle, I will sign off and tell you thank you for joining us.
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:57.599
And we look forward to have you on another episode of Unpack with Ron Harvey.
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.039
Thanks, Ron.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:06.960
Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:14.880
Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges.
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:21.840
Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve.
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.559
Because people always matter.