What Secure Leaders Do Differently: Tony Dungy, Brendan Suhr & Catriona Moran

WEBVTT
00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:04.240
Welcome to Uncommon Impact.
00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.559
This week's episode is a little bit different.
00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:21.839
Before I started this podcast several years ago, I hosted a short series called The Art of Playing Well, where I talked to leaders in sports, in business, in education, in music about a life well lived and some of the things that went into that.
00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:29.600
Well, of course, people crossed over into leadership, into team building, into how we live our lives, into how we live lives of significance.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:36.000
And I went back through the archives and I found pieces from three different interviews that I thought would be interesting.
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:44.159
One from Brendan Suhr, longtime NBA coach, and was a coach for the Detroit Pistons with the great Chuck Daly, Hall of Famer.
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:51.200
Also Tony Dungy, former NFL head coach, and then Catriona Moran, longtime educator.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:54.399
All three of them had one theme that kept coming out.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.920
Great leadership is not really about control.
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:05.760
It's about building into others, it's about being authentic, it's about being the person we should be as we help others along the way.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.439
They all have different takes on that.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:25.519
Longtime NBA coach Brendan Suhr, who not only was a coach with the Detroit Pistons and several others, but also was an assistant coach on that 1992 Olympic Dream Team, gets us started with a story about Chuck Daly and the Detroit Pistons when he joined them as a brand new assistant coach.
00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:26.719
Well let me ask you this then.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:44.400
When you're interacting with players, when you're having that give and take, players, employees, children, um, you know, you had talked, I've heard you talk before with me about engagement and you know that you and Coach Daly would listen, even if you thought, I don't know, if this is a great idea, you'd at least hear out whoever it was who had a stake in things.
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:52.879
You know, I I I when I came into NBA coaching, uh, you know, I came in under Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, two great coaches, they did it the same way.
00:01:52.879 --> 00:02:03.760
And when we would do what we call scouting reports and walk the players through it to prepare for the game, we would say, here's the play that they're gonna run, here's how we're gonna defend it.
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.400
It's done by 99% of the teams.
00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:16.400
So when I go to Detroit to teach with Chuck and coach with him, they had just been to the NBA finals the year before and lost by two points to the Lakers in game seven.
00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.400
I go in and I show the first game on there.
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:27.520
I said, here's what the Knicks are gonna do tonight on the side pick and roll, and here's how we're gonna defend it.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.560
And Chuck says, Stop.
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.759
And I said, Okay.
00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:37.919
And he says to Isaiah Thomas and to Bill Laimbeer, how do you guys want to defend it?
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:42.960
And I'm in shock, you know, and I'm saying, what the hell is he doing, man?
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:44.960
This is when I get to tell him what to do.
00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:48.800
And and so anyway, we we we they go and they say how they want to do it.
00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.479
Every play we're gonna I show, Chuck says, How do you guys want to do it?
00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:53.520
Defend it.
00:02:53.520 --> 00:03:01.280
And at the end, we go back into our coach's office and I said, Hey man, why don't you give me a heads up on what you're doing?
00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:02.879
He said, sorry.
00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:14.000
He said, but uh they know what's gonna work more than you know, and it's more important that they get involved in the ownership of this than you do.
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:15.360
And if it guess what?
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.520
If it doesn't work, if it's wrong, at the first time out we change it.
00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:24.960
It's not a big deal, but now they'll buy in because it's their idea.
00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:37.280
And it was one of the greatest lessons, and I that was 30 plus years ago, Nathan, and I now teach that, and high school and college coaches think I'm from outer space, that you would dare let the players do this.
00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:43.599
And I think in every sport, baseball, football, those are the guys that are out there, they they buy in.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:50.800
And and I and I think it's it's the whole code of engagement is to let other people's opinions come out.
00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:56.960
If as a parent, if you never let your children have a voice, they're not gonna buy into what you're saying, even if you're right.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:58.560
They want to they want to be heard.
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:03.520
So I think it was a great lesson, and it was and you learn in surprise ways.
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:13.680
And that was right there in the middle of the uh of a practice and with the best team in the world, and I didn't even know I was being I was being taught how to coach.
00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:27.199
What I love about that story is Chuck Daly's security, that he didn't have to have all the answers, that he was willing to step in if need be, but he was also willing to give ownership and to listen and to get that input from the other players.
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.079
That leads me to a story from Tony Dungy.
00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:44.879
Tony talked about a time in which a coach approached him not too long ago and asked what he needed to do, how he needed to behave, who he needed to become, now that he was a head coach and no longer an assistant, now that he had this positional title of leadership.
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:50.079
And Tony, of course, said, You need to be the person that you are, the person that you've always been.
00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:54.240
Continue to grow, but don't change just because the title changes.
00:04:54.560 --> 00:05:00.240
Another story along those lines uh Adrian Griffin just took over the Milwaukee Bucks.
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:08.720
He became the head coach, he's been an assistant coach in the NBA for a long time, but now this is his first year as the headman doing things his way, setting the tone.
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:13.279
And he called me uh not too long ago, said, I'd really love to talk to you.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:21.600
People are telling me that I have to be a little different now that I'm the head man, I've got to be the disciplinary and I've got to make sure things are on track.
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:23.600
So I'm gonna have to change a little bit.
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.879
But I read one of your books, and I don't think you believe that.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:28.800
So I'd love to talk to you about that.
00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:33.759
And uh again, just amazing the impact that a book, the written word, could have.
00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:37.279
And I was able to chat with him and say, no, you don't have to change.
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:42.240
You can get the respect of your players being who you are, doing it just the way you've always done it.
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:43.920
That's uh that's fantastic.
00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:50.959
And it's uh it's great to hear that that not only he's now in that position and I'm gonna do great things, especially with the trade they just made.
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:57.199
Um but then also um that he that he looked to you um for that.
00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:58.959
And because I think that's a great reminder.
00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:17.199
Uh Jerome Tang, I was talking to him not too long ago, now at Kansas State, and he was laughing about being a Baylor and how Scott Drew is always so upbeat with the players, and that at times Drew would look to them, the assistants like, hey, I need you to correct this because some of these guys aren't in the right spot, and and I want to be the up to beat guy.
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:22.160
But I think you can all stay in your lane of, you know, in a place you're comfortable with, right?
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:27.680
As far as you don't have to change to become somebody else, you don't have to alter your character to get ahead to do well.
00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.439
Respond to you uh when you build those type of relationships.
00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.319
You and I were talking about it before the the broadcast here.
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:53.360
Uh, there was an NFL owner who interviewed me when I was much younger, and I had a good reputation at the time, but he kind of had done research on my personality and the way I did things, and he said, I don't know if you'll be tough enough, if you'll be, we've got some very intense guys, and how are you gonna keep them in line?
00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:00.959
And I said, Well, I'll I'll build this relationship like I did with my players, like my dad built with me, and we'll have this mutual respect.
00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:06.720
And I think they won't want to let me down, and the love that we'll have for each other, it'll be just perfect.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.480
And he I don't think that could work in the NFL.
00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:15.680
So I didn't get the job, but uh it can work and it does work.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:28.720
That phrase from Tony that you don't have to change who you are, is so important for us to hear that it's important to get input, to listen, to be humble, and to always be learning, and then stay who we are.
00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.600
And that brings me to the third point with Catriona Moran.
00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:42.560
We've listened, we've learned, we've stayed true to who we are as we've grown, but then along the way now, it's time to help others do the same and follow that path.
00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.920
And sometimes it ends with them leaving for other positions.
00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:50.240
Sometimes we've helped them grow beyond our organization, beyond wherever they are.
00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:51.600
And that's okay.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:58.240
And that's a part of paying it forward, and that's a part of realizing that people have helped us get to where we are and do some of the things we've done.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.399
Now it's time to help them as well.
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:09.040
If you don't mind just following up on then developing others and and helping them bring out their potential as you as you talked about character and then developing others.
00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:15.120
So that is one of the the pleasures of someone at my stage in my career.
00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:30.959
And it's a pleasure, it's a it's um it's an opportunity and it's also a responsibility because I've been successful, and uh, by all measures, I've been ahead of school and a school administrator.
00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:34.159
Um and so I need to share that with others.
00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:46.240
And so we need, and because we built up such a wonderful organization here, um there are there are people in the in this in the midst um that we need to mentor, we need to coach, and we need to help them grow.
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.399
And um, I'm sure other leaders have said this as well.
00:08:50.399 --> 00:09:01.440
You're just speaking from what you know, you're often in a conversation, you're in a dilemma, you're trying to solve a problem, someone is coming to you with um a situation that they want advice on.
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:11.360
And they'll say to you, um, and you and you you'll say you'll just say you'll ask some questions, you'll share some advice, and you'll think that's just that you know that already.
00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:13.200
I know I'm saying this to you, but you know it already.
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.759
And then they'll say to you, I never thought about it like that.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:17.519
But that just comes from experience.
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:21.759
So I think at this point in my career, I need to share what I've learned from experience.
00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:38.559
And and I need to, I need to continue learning so I can, as you saw with AI, I need to continue that learning and I need my AI presentation, I should say, and so that I need to be able to keep then uh guiding our young educators and our young leaders.
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.279
And so I feel a responsibility to mentor.
00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:51.360
And as when this meeting is over, my next meeting actually is with a high school counselor who is uh I'm guiding her in her career path, and she's incredible.
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.200
So we have these incredible people, and they just want to learn.
00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.000
They want to learn academically and they want to learn from others.
00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.080
So it really is uh pleasure and a responsibility to help mentor others.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:04.080
Absolutely.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:19.679
And it and it seems to me what I've experienced over the years is that as you help others develop, as you mentor them and they grow, they'll either be thrilled and stay there, and or they'll be thrilled and will leave for other opportunities.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:37.919
I mean, it seems like you have, and and you know, I uh your husband Gerry was bragging about you um when he and I were sitting in the back of the room during your presentation, but talking about the great loyalty you've got, but then also it sounds like you're helping develop this teacher and others to where they might they might go, and and that's okay, right?
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:38.879
Or or not?
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.639
It it has to be okay because we really want the best for them.
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:49.039
And if that means here in this organization or somewhere else, uh like we need to provide that opportunity.
00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:54.000
Uh but what I'm hoping is that some of the people I'm mentoring here, I want them to replace me.
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.039
So they are my succession plan.
00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.279
So let's hope that goes for the plan.
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:06.960
Because really um they are invested in the organization and and they can do it, and with time and experience, they will be able to.
00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:18.559
Um but yes, you have to you you really have to want the best for that individual, and we would never stand in the way of their career path because they deserve whatever they aspire to.
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:27.120
And it's painful when you pour all that time into somebody and all of a sudden you've got a void, but but I mean it's painful from the standpoint of having to replace them.
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.039
But at the same time.
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:29.759
Yeah.
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:30.320
Yeah.
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.879
But then you have these many things around the world.
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.559
I I can't go back to responsibility.
00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:44.960
I do think it is that after you had after you've had people mentor you in your career, and some really well, um, then I think it's a responsibility to pass to pay it forward.
00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.559
Three thoughts on this idea of control.
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.080
Brendan Suhr talking about listening and learning.
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:59.120
Tony Dungy talking about being true to ourselves, and Catriona Moran talking about helping others along the way.
00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:04.480
If I'm not secure enough that I won't listen to others, then I'm limiting myself.
00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:11.279
If I'm not secure enough that I'm not gonna be truly who I am, then I'm not gonna grow as much as I will.
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:20.559
And then finally, if I'm not secure enough that I'm not willing to help others along the way to maybe where they leave me, then we're not gonna flourish in the way we all can together.
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:26.960
At the end of the day, it comes down to some level of security, some level of self-esteem, some level that this is okay.
00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.720
I can't control all of this.
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:32.480
But things will be okay if I help enough other people along the way.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:38.159
Because at the end of the day, doing these things does not diminish the impact we can have.
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:46.480
I think it multiplies it as we help others grow, as we listen and learn, and as we stay true to ourselves, our voice, and our values.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.000
Have a great week.