Unbreakable Her: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the next episode of the Unbreakable Her podcast, where we make space for the stories of resilient women. ⁓ We're continuing in our Mother's Day or Mother's Month. ⁓ theme which is celebrating mothers through her son's eyes. And we have with us today Ernest Thomas, who is going to share a little bit about his experience with his mom. Thank you for being here.
Ernest Thomas JR: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here to talk about my mama. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, really excited about that. ⁓ so as I do, I always just kind of start with how I know our guests. And I've known Ernest for a long time. A long, as they say, a long periodically time. so just yeah, just from church. It's been ⁓ decades at this point. And ⁓ and I know his mom too. ⁓ his mom and my mom are friends and have been for a long time.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes. Long time. Yes. Yes.
Unbreakable Her: as well. So ⁓ I'm really excited to learn about this side of her, literally through her son's eyes. ⁓ so we'll just open with you telling us, you know, who your mom is and then just giving us a a bit of a snapshot of what it was like to grow up with her. So like your childhood with her as mom.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah, yeah, so my mother is her name is Patrice Thomas. Some people call her Patty. Some people call her Patricia. I call her mother. When she gets on my nerves, I call her mom when I'm happy with her. My mother ⁓ is, I am the male version of my mother. ⁓ funny because when people see us, ⁓ they I look a lot like my mom until I get around my dad. ⁓ And ⁓ the I get, the more I realize you're more like your parents than you think you ⁓ My mother ⁓ is ⁓ a powerhouse woman. She is... ⁓ in church, obviously being over from church. She's a preacher. She has a love for women. She's a podcaster herself. When she's not doing that, she works in the health industry. She's worked in the health industry until as long as I've known her. When she's not doing that, she is at the gym. When she's not doing the gym, she is feeding the homeless on Saturday. When she's not doing that, she's trying to go back to school for something or she's getting on my nerves. So she is all in one. She is a lot of people's mother. She was a youth leader. She's just an all around woman. Growing up with my mother, ⁓ I'll say it was, ⁓ ⁓ a kid, I thought she was the meanest woman ever. Like I love my mom to death, but. My mom was so hard on me. Like I had to look and I had to look clean all the time. And I grew up, you know, in a home where ⁓ you to Catholic school, ⁓ you good grades, ⁓ you talked proper, you did everything you was supposed to do. And as a young boy growing up in Philly, ⁓ my mother had a tough job because I wanted to be a young boy ⁓ that of was like all of my friends, but I also had to be this proper church kid. So my mom ⁓ kept fly. One thing I do remember as a kid, I was always fly. When I was a young kid, all my clothes were custom made by my grandmother. My mother kept me looking good all the time. And we were blessed. She was blessed on him, one child. So she was able to splurge. My mom made sure I had the best of everything. ⁓ I just, I knew, I felt like she was being hard on me as a kid. You always think your mom is just always hard on you. thought she was very overbearing. My mother... Being a creative, I think my mother's also creative. They're very, very vocal about what they think and how they feel. And my mother was very vocal about how she wanted my life to be set up, how she wanted things to be done. ⁓ She knew that the world wasn't always going to be kind to somebody like me, so she wanted to set me up for success. But I was spoiled rotten. I got whatever I want. As long as I got good grades, I got whatever I wanted. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: So can you talk a little bit about how that manifested in terms of like how you engage with your mom as a young person? ⁓ when say that she was very specific about how she wanted you to conduct yourself and and wanted wanted things to go and you felt like she was strict, ⁓ were there any points ⁓ where you butted heads or something that you share about about times where you butted heads?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. So as a kid, I mean, you do what your mother said, right? You go out in public. If she said, sit down, you sit down. If you, you know, she said, do that thing. So as a kid, I mean, no, just thought this is how life was. just thought I had a strict Christian mom, you know, that, you know, whenever I wasn't at school, I was at church kind of thing. We didn't really start butting heads until maybe I got into my teens and I got, you know, I was learning who I was.
Unbreakable Her: Right, right. Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ I was becoming more creative. You know, I knew I wanted to be an actor as a kid. And being an only child, you get, I feel like there's a lot of opportunities that you get. Like I was in every program. I was in baseball, I was in football, I was in acting camp. And when you have the only child, you want to teach them to be independent, right? Biggest thing is a lot of only kids learn how to be independent at a young age. Being independent without being mature is just opening up a world of chaos. So I was able to, know, my mom taught me how to talk very proper. I was able to talk for myself. was able to have, I was able to hold conversations with adults a proper setting, right? I was able to ⁓ speak for myself. I was able to make decisions on my own. So when my mom would get in conflicts or I, you know, I also up with a black mama. You do as I say, you don't ask questions back. If I say, down, sit down. If I say no, it's no. If I say two plus three equals eight, you didn't question if two plus three equaled eight.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: And I got to age where I began to talk back. I was able, you I had an opinion and I wanted to be heard, you know. And I believe that creative children are beautiful, but they are also terrifying for parents. So I think my mother knew at a young age that she had a child that was going to be creative. He was going to be the, I was going to be the leader. I was going to be, you know, I was always going to be in charge. I was going to be someone that was going to be at the position that I am in life. And I think that terrified my mother because Creative kids think differently. They move differently and they feel differently. And mothers have to figure out how to protect something they don't fully understand. Like I think my mother knew me, but she didn't fully understand who I was. So ⁓ how do you give your child enough freedom to express themselves without them being too disrespectful? And I think that ⁓ when that happened, we would just bump heads a lot. It was just, ⁓ and... ⁓ So it's my mother's testimony, but there was a season in our lives when my mother was raising me as a single mother. Like my father was in my life. He's always been around. Everybody knows my father was, but they weren't together. And regardless of how well you can co-parent, when you're not together, you're a single parent. So I think that was also ⁓ difficult too, raising a young black boy as a single mom, ⁓ while also having her own ambitions. My mother has always been a person about education. going back to school. So there was a season in my life where my mother was going to school, working full time and had a part-time job at Macy's because I had to be fly. I had, you know, I loved Ralph Lauren. So she would ⁓ make, she got a job specifically at Macy's working in the Ralph Laurence ⁓ section, just so she can get the discount, just so I can look fly going to school every day. ⁓ doing that.
Unbreakable Her: Wow.
Ernest Thomas JR: I had to grow up quickly. I had to become independent quickly. And when you feel as though you've grown, you're gonna start speaking like you've grown. So it became difficult to keep those boundaries in place as I was growing as a young man and my mother trying to live her life and do her dream and also raise this young boy. Hope I answered that question. Yes, yes, yeah.
Unbreakable Her: for sure. For sure. ⁓ yeah, I think, I think there's always with every parent-child relationship, there are these sort of ebbs and flows and these these seasons that the relationship goes through. The teenage years are typically part of that. ⁓ I I can attest to that. ⁓ But ⁓ I think until I actually became a parent.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes, absolutely. Yes.
Unbreakable Her: I didn't realize or start thinking about, or maybe it was a little bit before then, but it it took definitely me getting older and maturing as an adult to realize that as hard as it is, or as hard as it was for me as a teenager and a young adult adjusting to my own independence with my mom, it was really tough for her too. And so I don't think as children, we we're not conscious of the fact that this shift.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: is hard for them to navigate as well. And so you like you just don't you don't realize that in the moment. so
Ernest Thomas JR: Absolutely, yeah.
Unbreakable Her: can you talk about the time ⁓ or when you and your mom, your relationship shifted? Where ⁓ now this ⁓ I don't want to assume or presume this, but I know for me and mom, there a a point that it shifted kind of into friendship. Can you share like when or if that happened for you too?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah, so The shift didn't really take place for me until my late 20s. That's when it started to shift. You know, they always say you can't move a boat quickly, you can't move a vessel quickly. It takes some time. I think that we started making the decision that it had to turn when I got in my 20s. I decided at 23 that I was ready to move out. At that point in my life, my parents got back together when I was a later in life and we all lived together. my best friend, one of my best friends, her name is Rhonda and you'll see her on my page. see her on my mom's page. We call her son, he's my nephew. That's their grandchild. They moved in with us at that point. So it's a house full of people. am... itching to get out. Like I am itching to get out because even when I was 18, I still had rules, you know, even though if I went out, I still had to be home by a certain time. And I was like, this is crazy. And then at 21, it was even worse. Like it went from at 18, you could be at house at midnight. At 21, you could be at house at 12, 45, one o'clock. I was like, lady, you are crazy. This is crazy. I think at 23, I was like, I'm ready to get out. I'm ready to go on my own. And my mother was totally against it. Like she'd be like, you're not moving out, you're not ready, you're not none of this. And I'm like, I'm moving out. It was the first time I made a decision. I went downstairs on NerveFigure and I talked to my dad. was like, dad, I want to move. My dad was like, hey, you want to move? want to move? You know how Bob is like, yeah, think it's time for you to move. My mom was like, you're not moving. And I didn't think she took me serious until I started looking for apartments. And I'll never forget this as long as I live. I found an apartment. I was on the search too. I think I was like, I had finally got a real job. where I was like a real full-time job, a real adult job. I wasn't making good money. I was just making enough money at the time that I just knew I could get out. And back then, back then, I'm old, apartments were only like 650. Like they weren't really a lot of money to like move. I'll never forget. I mean, really, right? So my first apartment was $650. was one bedroom living in University City at that. Now come on, you can't even beat that. I was like on 42nd street. And I'll never forget, we went to go look at the apartment. My mom took me.
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ those were the days.
Ernest Thomas JR: and we went to go look at the apartment. was like seven o'clock at night, right? So it's pitch black. I'm just ready to move. So we go into the apartment. The apartment is trash. I should have never moved into that apartment. It was just dark. There was no electricity in the apartment complex. And so we saw this apartment in the dark and I looked around. I was like, yep, I'll take it. I'm moving. I'm ready to move in. And Monique, let me tell you, the bathroom was in the living room. That's how bad, like, so if I'm having guests, you got to go to the bathroom. Like, you're just walking right in the living room to go to bathroom. And if you had an experience in the bathroom, we all know what you experienced. Like, it was just that bad. And my mom didn't say that. She said, OK. She let me sign the lease. And I'll never forget. And I have a picture, and I have to find it ⁓ I I was packing up. I had no furniture. There was nothing. You know, hand-me-downs from family members. ⁓ And think this shift took place when she drove. ⁓ the pickup truck from our house to my new apartment. That's when the shift changed. That's when the friendship started to really ⁓ happen. ⁓ But it was still very, I'm your mother, you the son. Like it was still, she was telling me what to do in my own apartment. Like, you know, it was very much, I still need a key. It was very much, I would come home from work some days and my furniture was not the way I left it. You know, there was couches that was caddy cornered. There was like, you know, my mom had stuff everywhere. I feel like that was the first level when our relationship shifted. To believe it or not, it stayed like that until my grandmother passed, maybe about three years ago. We were still of like figuring out things, like my mother was still sort of ⁓ level, but ⁓ believe according to me that my mother was still holding the reigns as I'm the mother, you're the child from a place of I can still control everything. Like my mother would tell everybody, he's growing, he can make his own decisions, ⁓ she was... You're not doing this very much, you know. When my grandmother, that whole transition when my mother got sick during COVID, I believe that that's when the boat really changed our relationship. And not only were we mother and son, but we became friends. And I was able to really begin to have some honest conversations with her about life and work and where I was and some of the things that I had struggled with that I had kept buried on the inside for years. ⁓ watching my mother take care of her mother. and keeping her promise and taking care of her every day, we became friends because I saw the struggle and I saw the weight of my mother and I was able to help her. And she began to lean on me. You know, for years I've always leaned on my mom, even when I was a depth and I still bought $20 and I still bought $40, you know. At that point, I was at a place where she could lean on me and she could begin to become honest. And when my grandmother passed, that's when I was able to really start having real life conversations with her. And we have been amazing ever since.
Unbreakable Her: Yeah, that's that's amazing. That's amazing. before we move on, and this is come a complete digression, I just am really fascinated by the fact that your mom, even at 23, your mom was like, you don't need to go anywhere, which is a contrast to ⁓ lot of we see in black homes, which is
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: historically been this you eighteen you need to get out you need to go and I think you know recently and by recently you know the last I would say the last 10 years the discourse has started to shift like what don't don't do that. Eighteen year olds have no idea what's happening. Eighteen year olds cannot ⁓ survive by themselves. I mean we do it right but like that's not that's not ideal. We don't
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they can't. They can't. Yeah. No, it's not.
Unbreakable Her: You don't need to be kicking them out at eighteen. So I th I th I I think it's fascinating that your mom was just like, Mm mm, mm mm, nope.
Ernest Thomas JR: No, no. Yeah, No, yeah, my mother was, she was against it. And then when she was at my house every day when I moved, like there was always an excuse for her to be at my house. I'm like, lady, I need you to go where you live. you know, but I think mothers spend years teaching their sons how to leave them, but secretly praying that they never do. ⁓ And think that my mother ⁓ knew as a son and a black male that I have to teach him how to be independent.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: but I secretly don't want him to go out in the world because I know that the world is harmful. know, young black men are being killed. You you see a lot of things happening and my mother did not want that to happen to me. She didn't want me to struggle the way she did. You know, my mother never made our struggles look like struggles. Something about women, you mothers, you have a way of making struggles look so easy. I mean, even when you can see we're struggling, like you have a way of making it so comfortable. I look back at our life now and
Unbreakable Her: Man.
Ernest Thomas JR: I can now see times where my mother didn't know what was like, how we were gonna make it, how we were gonna do things. And she made it look easy. It's like, you know, they say, you know, black food, know, collard greens and things. We know how to make something out of nothing. And my mother always knew how to make something out of nothing. You know, she always knew how to make sure that I had the best of everything. Like I best, I didn't have to go to public school because she's gonna make sure that I had the best of everything.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: My mother also knew that there were certain things that as a boy, you need to know how to do. You need to be able to play sports. You need to be able to fight. We grew up, I grew up on 52nd Street. My grandmother lived on 52nd and Paxson Street. as a young boy, I was always clean. Let's just start from there. I was one of those clean young boys. We know what that means. Clean young boys, well-spoken. Back in the day, you I was wearing jeans with like, like, quarter-weight shoes. Like, I was just fly. You know, my dad was fly. So I was so, my mother had to make sure that knew how to fight. She had to know how to make sure I knew how to protect myself. She had to make sure that I'm... I could stand up for myself. That was the biggest thing for her, preparing me that you're not gonna let anybody play you. You're not gonna let anyone play in your face. You can speak up for yourself and still be respectful. you know, being a church boy, you don't always fight. So wasn't a big fighter growing up, but my mom was like, uh-uh, you ain't gonna be one of them church boys who don't know how to defend yourself, son. Yeah, we got the swords, you know, we got the full armor of God, but we got these as well. Put your hands up and block your face, right? My mother made sure that ⁓ my father was always present, even when they were separated. She made sure that his voice was always in my life. She made sure that she always spoke well of him, even when they weren't on the same page. She taught me, even though you don't have a typical family the way it's supposed to look right now, you're going to have a healthy family unit. And ⁓ I will always honor her for that. Like, I will always love her for that. ⁓ Sometimes you don't even know what to to prepare your child for. And that is the weird thing. I got to protect you from everything. But the world doesn't look the same way it does when I was 10 and when I was five. So my mother always had to make sure that she was staying on top of what was happening. She met all the friends. She was always up at school. She wanted to make sure that I was well-rounded at all times, not just a church boy. Yeah. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: Right. Right, right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. ⁓ how would you describe your mom? So like if if you mentioned some of this, ⁓ but ⁓ if ⁓ somebody you met somebody ⁓ and they never your they didn't know anything her, and you had like ninety seconds, how would you describe your mom to them so that you would give them a real solid sense of who she is as a person?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. My mother is an outspoken, opinionated, sensitive woman ⁓ who will give you the shirt off her back. She's a woman that believes ⁓ ⁓ this is harder than I thought. Not because I don't know what to say. There's just so much you can say about her. ⁓ My mother who's someone who's gonna love you, she's gonna be your protector, she's gonna be your defender, ⁓ gonna be your battle ax ⁓ and she's going to push you. Yeah, hopefully I answered that right. Hopefully, mom, I hope I did you justice when you watch this. Don't be calling me like, don't know how to talk about your mother. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I always ask that question because I think sometimes people think they know. ⁓ from the outside, particularly like sometimes people get introduced to one characteristic and they think that that gives them full insight into who a person is. So if they've if they've met her as an opinionated person, they may not know the other pieces. And so, yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah, and that's true, right? I know a lot of times when you meet my mom, know, one thing I think I inherited from both my parents, either you're like me or not. Like, when you meet me in 90 seconds, you're either gonna be like, I like that person, or I'm like, I never want to talk to them again. And I think a lot of times people see my mom as a strong woman, but I don't think they realize how many years she was silent. How many years that she didn't have a voice. How many years that she wanted to speak up, but she couldn't speak up because of me.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: And that is something that, okay, so, yeah, yeah, so, you know, I love when people say, you my mom sacrificed, you don't know the sacrifice my mom went through. And I think that is so true, you know what mean? Yeah, sometimes they have to work two and three jobs and sometimes they have to, you know, do a little bit extra. But sometimes mothers have to stay in places they don't wanna stay in in order to protect you. My mother stayed in situations longer than she wanted to.
Unbreakable Her: Okay, say more. Say more. Say more about that. I if you can.
Ernest Thomas JR: to ensure that I was safe. And I'm not talking about like marriage or anything. I'm just talking about an everyday life. There's a lot of things that your parents sacrifice and they do because of you. There's a lot of things that your parents won't say to protect you, to make sure that you have an opportunity. I believe there's plenty of my mom wanted to cuss people out, lay people out, but she knew that that would negatively impact me. So she kept her mouth shut. I know there are plenty of times my mom showed up to things that she didn't want to show up to because she didn't want to embarrass me.
Unbreakable Her: Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ Me and my mother, it's so funny, I'm almost 40 and my mother is still making life choices because she thinks she's protecting me. And me and my mother, I had to have a really hard time with her that day, like, mom, live your life. Like, if you don't like it, leave. Like, if you don't wanna be there, don't be there. I'm going to be cool, And I think that as children, when we get to a comfortable place, we have to really release our parents and say, I'm good. ⁓ And ⁓ I did not know I to that.
Unbreakable Her: Got you. Okay. Yeah, it does. It does.
Ernest Thomas JR: If that makes sense. Yeah, like I didn't know that I had to release my mom until it's okay. I'm good. I'm good. I'm going to be okay. I need you to be okay now because if you're not okay, I'm not okay. And I think what they see is a strong woman who's speaking, but I think it's because she had to be quiet for so long. She had to stay in situations she didn't want to be in. She had to close her mouth. You know,
Unbreakable Her: Yeah, yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: like, I forget the time where... There was a season in my life where I was struggling about who I was as an individual, what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. There was a season in my life I didn't think I was going to be 30 or 40 because I could not imagine what life would look like at 30 and 40. There was a season I didn't know if I want to go to the left or to the right. And I think that the things that I battled on the inside were showing publicly. So people speak to what they see, not knowing your full story. And ⁓ I'll never forget the time I was in church and I was a young kid at this time. So like, I was a young kid and I had experienced something that I was too scared to tell my parents at the time. And so I dealt with that. people being people, one young lady said to me, girl said to me, she says, you're just too feminine. Like you are just way too feminine. The way you walk, you and she was imitating the way I was walking church people. And to another lady in the church and they were laughing about it. And it hurt me so bad. Like it hurt me for a very long time. I never told my mom, never ever, because I just didn't know. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed that I was struggling with something. I was embarrassed to her because I didn't want it to look bad on her. And my mother, and I just recently told my mom this, like a couple months ago. I told her about this experience because I was writing about it and I wanted to tell her before she read it. And she said to me, she said, son, I've always known that. She said, what you didn't know is one of my friends was sitting in the back of the church.
Unbreakable Her: Wow. Okay.
Ernest Thomas JR: and they addressed it and they told me about it. And for years, my mom was like, there was one person my mom would just never be cool with. Like, she'd be like, you know, she's cordial, she has nothing. But you know how you are, when you mess with that child, I don't care if it was 30, 40 years ago, I'm still sighing on you, right? Like, forever, right? Like as Cardi B says, if you got beef with me, you got beef with me forever. And my mom was on it and I never understood why and it made, she knew, she knew. And...
Unbreakable Her: Mm. Forever. Forever. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: I understand. I just, understand what parents do, what they do. I understand why they respond the way they do. And I understand why my mom felt so uncomfortable leaving me alone.
Unbreakable Her: Mm. Wow.
Ernest Thomas JR: You know, and ⁓ you know, when you become a parent, guess they don't tell you that. I mean, they tell you that they're your kids forever, but they don't, I guess they don't explain that they're your kids forever. Doesn't matter if they're 60, 70, 80, 90. If someone hurts your child, it's as if they're hurting you as a kid.
Unbreakable Her: A hundred percent. Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah, so, you know, a lot of times a lot of people see my mom as a strong woman is because she's been fighting and defending me since I was six. Yeah. She knew that I was gonna be a problem. So she shows up for battle every single time.
Unbreakable Her: One of the questions that I was gonna ask you was just about, you know, what are ⁓ what are some things that ⁓ a thing or some things that you didn't understand fully as a younger person, but that you fully understand as an adult.
Ernest Thomas JR: One thing I didn't fully understand as a ⁓ child that I understand now as an adult is ⁓ my mom kept showing up when my parents were separated. Like, why couldn't you just live your life? Like, why did you have to still ⁓ up and pretend that you were having this big, we have this big family, like we're all good. ⁓ ⁓ mom taught me how to separate adult pain from parenting. That's one of the questions. And I did not realize that until now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is where I wanted to, wrote this down. I didn't think I was actually going to say this, ⁓ but I wanted to make sure that I honor my mom and said this correctly. My mom, you know, there was a season where I was struggling. There was a season where she was struggling. You know, things weren't always going well at home. There were some issues. Again, her testimony, she'll give it to her when she's ready. ⁓ But through it all,
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ wow. Okay. Okay, say more 'cause okay. Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: My mom told me that love shows up, right? Not just when things are perfect, not just when relationships are easy, real love shows up consistently. She taught me that you don't make your children carry adult pain. She never made me feel caught in the middle. She protected my relationship with my father, even during difficult seasons. You know, ⁓ and I appreciate that because... when I was struggling with some things, when me and my dad, and it's no secret, me and my dad have come a mighty long way. We are like, you know, I mean, ⁓ how can you not when you look just like him? Sitting bald and all about, you know. And my mom always set the tone of how I handle things. Because you know, us, when we get real emotional, I don't care who around. You know what I mean? I'ma let you know how I feel. I'ma pop off. But my mom always taught me how to She always taught me, excuse me, how to show up. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: to keep your family sacred without pretending that everything was perfect. You know, mama, everything wasn't always perfect, but it was our family. It was our drama. was stuff that we had to deal with. And even though things are not right, okay right now, we'll handle that later, but we gonna show up as one family unit because at the end of the day, you got me and I got you and that's all we have. And I didn't understand that as a child. I didn't understand, you know, I'm like, mom, you know, don't you, you know, why are you coming? And she said, you know, I have to. You're my son. And ⁓ I didn't understand that as a kid. I just, you know, I didn't, Christmases was always together. You, you know, you know, ⁓ yeah, everything was always together. Right? When I opened up for Christmas, everybody was there. When I went to bed for Christmas, everything was there. You know, there was no, is what you get on your dad's side. This is what you get. Everything was just one. ⁓ And I never felt what was going on between them two.
Unbreakable Her: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay.
Ernest Thomas JR: never felt one ounce of it. She respected who he was in my life.
Unbreakable Her: Mm. That is a gift because it can be very difficult for children having basically just being forced to choose sides and navigate that alone because the custodial parent is locked in their grief and anger. ⁓ and that's honestly, that is no judgment because.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ my, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: When you don't have when people don't have the people don't always have the tools to navigate hardship, particularly as parents. And so, you know, you saying that your mom taught you that you don't have to make adult problems, you don't have to put the adult problems onto a child. ⁓ I mean, that that truly is a gift because it's it's
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: There's so many stories that people spend a lot of time in therapy trying to unravel and, you know, untangle those experiences. ⁓ so it's that's definitely a gift.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. And she taught me therapy early. And listen, before there was social media, before the therapy became the new thing, I was in therapy at a young age. I think the first time I got smart with her, she said, before I kill you and have a jail ministry, we're to... She says, before I end up in jail, I'm going to take you over to talk to somebody and they're going to figure out what's going on the inside of you. Maybe you got some things you need to work out. And we gonna figure that out now because you talking to me like this means you want to go to heaven early. So yeah, yeah. Thomas, listen, I am who I am wherever I am. Yeah. Good. Absolutely. All day long. Yeah. We are who we are, wherever we are. He wants me to be behind jails and tell the story of his goodness. But you're going to heaven.
Unbreakable Her: She not the prison ministry. Cause she like, look, I'm I'm I'm called who I'm called to be. Even after putting you where I'ma put you, we gon we gon ahead and and we're gonna have the prison ministry if we don't take care of this.
Ernest Thomas JR: Because if you keep talking to me like that, you're going to heaven at a young age. Yeah, I'm going be at the funeral though. I'm a planet. I'm going put you down well. But after that, they taking me to Sing Sing.
Unbreakable Her: And I'm going to prison. All right. ⁓ boy. ⁓ boy. I love that. I love that. ⁓ that she, you know, valued and instilled care for mental health early. So that yeah, that's that's really important. And I think it speaks to, you know, like you said, your mom has always been really big on education. She is an educated woman, very much so. ⁓
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: Not just not just it's not always about like the credentials, but it's about being in spaces where you just you learn information that you may not have been exposed to
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes.
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ 'cause you don't know what you don't know. You know, we don't know.
Ernest Thomas JR: You don't, you know, my mom, my mom was huge on education. Even now she's huge on education. If you want to get my mom hot under the collar, say something about going to school. Like saying something like, you know, I never forget my mom gets hot under the collar when people say, you don't need all that education and education. And my mom, you want to get her hot under the collar and get her in a debate?
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: Because my mom told me at a young age, she said, you're not going to be deep in church and clueless at the bank. I said, well, I said, OK. You're going to know how to write a check. You're going know how to write a check.
Unbreakable Her: Mm- Yeah
Ernest Thomas JR: She said, you know, she said, they can't go to school. That's why they're down in education. My mother is huge, Monique. I say, when I thought I got called to the ministry, I thought that was the hardest thing I was going to have to do. I thought going to the board was going to be the hardest thing. Going through Patrice. was the hardest thing. I'm 40 and I, well I'll be 40 and it's still like, if I have, I can have a sermon that I've prayed about. And I'm like, yeah, I did the research. It's prayer fasting prep Patrice. ⁓ The sermon that hear Sunday, ⁓ some part of it has gone through the Patrice prep.
Unbreakable Her: I love it. I love it.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: I love that. ⁓ yeah, so I think that's a it's a good place for us to ⁓ to land to land the ⁓ I want to make sure that we captured everything that you wanna say about her, and then we're gonna end with you just taking ⁓ a moment to look right in your camera and say what you want to say to her. So is there anything that we that we haven't touched that you think is important to share about her before you talk to her?
Ernest Thomas JR: So... don't so. mean, my mother is an awesome woman. That's all I can say. I would not be who I am without her. I ⁓ think God has a really funny sense of humor when he gives you someone who is you. And ⁓ I am proud of the person I am because of her. Both parents, obviously, but this is her story. ⁓ And I want to say, Mom, I love you to death. I know I get on your last nerve, and I probably still owe you $20. But that's okay, right? You have loved me through what I thought was some of the hardest seasons of my life. You have shown up for me when I embarrassed both of us. When I was wrong, you showed up for me. When I was right, you showed up for me. ⁓ I am grateful for every sacrifice you have made for me. I am grateful that you showed up for me even when you didn't want to. I am grateful that even when you felt like I put other people before you, you still loved me and you... understood. I may call many people mom, but you are my only mother. And I am grateful that God chose you to be my mother and me to be your son. for the rest of my life, I will try to repay you for every sacrifice you have given to me. I would not be here. I not be at this job. I would not be managing people if it wasn't for every lesson that you given me. ⁓ You a walking talking example of what it's like to live. a true Christian life, even when it's a little bit messy, even when you got to figure things out. You are a walking example. I am your biggest fan. I will always be in your corner. There's nothing that you do that I won't be at some form. When you get old, I'm going to make sure you're in the nicest nursing home I can possibly. ⁓ And I just appreciate you. I am the man I am today. I may not be a perfect man, but I am a man that I am today because of all you've done for me. And I hope that this podcast celebrates you and someone looks you up and find out who is this woman that raised this crazy young man.
Unbreakable Her: That's awesome. And I hope the same. ⁓ thank you so, so much for sharing your mom with us. ⁓ I can't wait to release the episode so that you know she gets to see how much she means to you. And I'm sure you've said it in many forms, but ⁓ this will be a public one that will live on. ⁓ it'll be on it'll be on many different platforms so she can rewatch it anytime that she
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I pray, Monique, that this helps you. Like, I know that you're doing this, and we talked about why, but I hope that this helps you as you raise your kids and become a phenomenal mom that you are, because you are doing an awesome job. I look forward to the videos between you and your son. I think I may have seen him maybe three times in person, if that.
Unbreakable Her: If she ever is wondering, did I do a good job? ⁓ she'll be able to to to pull this up and put and press play. So that's awesome. Thank you.
Ernest Thomas JR: But I feel like I've known your son since the day he was born, just watching him, and you're doing an incredible job. Please keep giving voices to unsung heroes. We always talk about the big people. We always talk about the big people that's doing things, and we always honor the big people. But if it had not been for some of these unsung voices, some of us would be in jail, crazy dead, out of our mind. And thank you for giving voices to people that may have never had an opportunity to tell their story.
Unbreakable Her: Thank you. That means a great deal. Thank you so much. And on that note, thank you for joining us. for everyone who's listening, please make sure that you engage with this, ⁓ with this content, with the episode, comment, like, share, do all the things. ⁓ and until next time, stay unbreakable.
Ernest Thomas JR: You're welcome. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Thank you for having me. Stay unbreakable.
Ernest Thomas JR: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here to talk about my mama. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, really excited about that. ⁓ so as I do, I always just kind of start with how I know our guests. And I've known Ernest for a long time. A long, as they say, a long periodically time. so just yeah, just from church. It's been ⁓ decades at this point. And ⁓ and I know his mom too. ⁓ his mom and my mom are friends and have been for a long time.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes. Long time. Yes. Yes.
Unbreakable Her: as well. So ⁓ I'm really excited to learn about this side of her, literally through her son's eyes. ⁓ so we'll just open with you telling us, you know, who your mom is and then just giving us a a bit of a snapshot of what it was like to grow up with her. So like your childhood with her as mom.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah, yeah, so my mother is her name is Patrice Thomas. Some people call her Patty. Some people call her Patricia. I call her mother. When she gets on my nerves, I call her mom when I'm happy with her. My mother ⁓ is, I am the male version of my mother. ⁓ funny because when people see us, ⁓ they I look a lot like my mom until I get around my dad. ⁓ And ⁓ the I get, the more I realize you're more like your parents than you think you ⁓ My mother ⁓ is ⁓ a powerhouse woman. She is... ⁓ in church, obviously being over from church. She's a preacher. She has a love for women. She's a podcaster herself. When she's not doing that, she works in the health industry. She's worked in the health industry until as long as I've known her. When she's not doing that, she is at the gym. When she's not doing the gym, she is feeding the homeless on Saturday. When she's not doing that, she's trying to go back to school for something or she's getting on my nerves. So she is all in one. She is a lot of people's mother. She was a youth leader. She's just an all around woman. Growing up with my mother, ⁓ I'll say it was, ⁓ ⁓ a kid, I thought she was the meanest woman ever. Like I love my mom to death, but. My mom was so hard on me. Like I had to look and I had to look clean all the time. And I grew up, you know, in a home where ⁓ you to Catholic school, ⁓ you good grades, ⁓ you talked proper, you did everything you was supposed to do. And as a young boy growing up in Philly, ⁓ my mother had a tough job because I wanted to be a young boy ⁓ that of was like all of my friends, but I also had to be this proper church kid. So my mom ⁓ kept fly. One thing I do remember as a kid, I was always fly. When I was a young kid, all my clothes were custom made by my grandmother. My mother kept me looking good all the time. And we were blessed. She was blessed on him, one child. So she was able to splurge. My mom made sure I had the best of everything. ⁓ I just, I knew, I felt like she was being hard on me as a kid. You always think your mom is just always hard on you. thought she was very overbearing. My mother... Being a creative, I think my mother's also creative. They're very, very vocal about what they think and how they feel. And my mother was very vocal about how she wanted my life to be set up, how she wanted things to be done. ⁓ She knew that the world wasn't always going to be kind to somebody like me, so she wanted to set me up for success. But I was spoiled rotten. I got whatever I want. As long as I got good grades, I got whatever I wanted. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: So can you talk a little bit about how that manifested in terms of like how you engage with your mom as a young person? ⁓ when say that she was very specific about how she wanted you to conduct yourself and and wanted wanted things to go and you felt like she was strict, ⁓ were there any points ⁓ where you butted heads or something that you share about about times where you butted heads?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. So as a kid, I mean, you do what your mother said, right? You go out in public. If she said, sit down, you sit down. If you, you know, she said, do that thing. So as a kid, I mean, no, just thought this is how life was. just thought I had a strict Christian mom, you know, that, you know, whenever I wasn't at school, I was at church kind of thing. We didn't really start butting heads until maybe I got into my teens and I got, you know, I was learning who I was.
Unbreakable Her: Right, right. Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ I was becoming more creative. You know, I knew I wanted to be an actor as a kid. And being an only child, you get, I feel like there's a lot of opportunities that you get. Like I was in every program. I was in baseball, I was in football, I was in acting camp. And when you have the only child, you want to teach them to be independent, right? Biggest thing is a lot of only kids learn how to be independent at a young age. Being independent without being mature is just opening up a world of chaos. So I was able to, know, my mom taught me how to talk very proper. I was able to talk for myself. was able to have, I was able to hold conversations with adults a proper setting, right? I was able to ⁓ speak for myself. I was able to make decisions on my own. So when my mom would get in conflicts or I, you know, I also up with a black mama. You do as I say, you don't ask questions back. If I say, down, sit down. If I say no, it's no. If I say two plus three equals eight, you didn't question if two plus three equaled eight.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: And I got to age where I began to talk back. I was able, you I had an opinion and I wanted to be heard, you know. And I believe that creative children are beautiful, but they are also terrifying for parents. So I think my mother knew at a young age that she had a child that was going to be creative. He was going to be the, I was going to be the leader. I was going to be, you know, I was always going to be in charge. I was going to be someone that was going to be at the position that I am in life. And I think that terrified my mother because Creative kids think differently. They move differently and they feel differently. And mothers have to figure out how to protect something they don't fully understand. Like I think my mother knew me, but she didn't fully understand who I was. So ⁓ how do you give your child enough freedom to express themselves without them being too disrespectful? And I think that ⁓ when that happened, we would just bump heads a lot. It was just, ⁓ and... ⁓ So it's my mother's testimony, but there was a season in our lives when my mother was raising me as a single mother. Like my father was in my life. He's always been around. Everybody knows my father was, but they weren't together. And regardless of how well you can co-parent, when you're not together, you're a single parent. So I think that was also ⁓ difficult too, raising a young black boy as a single mom, ⁓ while also having her own ambitions. My mother has always been a person about education. going back to school. So there was a season in my life where my mother was going to school, working full time and had a part-time job at Macy's because I had to be fly. I had, you know, I loved Ralph Lauren. So she would ⁓ make, she got a job specifically at Macy's working in the Ralph Laurence ⁓ section, just so she can get the discount, just so I can look fly going to school every day. ⁓ doing that.
Unbreakable Her: Wow.
Ernest Thomas JR: I had to grow up quickly. I had to become independent quickly. And when you feel as though you've grown, you're gonna start speaking like you've grown. So it became difficult to keep those boundaries in place as I was growing as a young man and my mother trying to live her life and do her dream and also raise this young boy. Hope I answered that question. Yes, yes, yeah.
Unbreakable Her: for sure. For sure. ⁓ yeah, I think, I think there's always with every parent-child relationship, there are these sort of ebbs and flows and these these seasons that the relationship goes through. The teenage years are typically part of that. ⁓ I I can attest to that. ⁓ But ⁓ I think until I actually became a parent.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes, absolutely. Yes.
Unbreakable Her: I didn't realize or start thinking about, or maybe it was a little bit before then, but it it took definitely me getting older and maturing as an adult to realize that as hard as it is, or as hard as it was for me as a teenager and a young adult adjusting to my own independence with my mom, it was really tough for her too. And so I don't think as children, we we're not conscious of the fact that this shift.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: is hard for them to navigate as well. And so you like you just don't you don't realize that in the moment. so
Ernest Thomas JR: Absolutely, yeah.
Unbreakable Her: can you talk about the time ⁓ or when you and your mom, your relationship shifted? Where ⁓ now this ⁓ I don't want to assume or presume this, but I know for me and mom, there a a point that it shifted kind of into friendship. Can you share like when or if that happened for you too?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah, so The shift didn't really take place for me until my late 20s. That's when it started to shift. You know, they always say you can't move a boat quickly, you can't move a vessel quickly. It takes some time. I think that we started making the decision that it had to turn when I got in my 20s. I decided at 23 that I was ready to move out. At that point in my life, my parents got back together when I was a later in life and we all lived together. my best friend, one of my best friends, her name is Rhonda and you'll see her on my page. see her on my mom's page. We call her son, he's my nephew. That's their grandchild. They moved in with us at that point. So it's a house full of people. am... itching to get out. Like I am itching to get out because even when I was 18, I still had rules, you know, even though if I went out, I still had to be home by a certain time. And I was like, this is crazy. And then at 21, it was even worse. Like it went from at 18, you could be at house at midnight. At 21, you could be at house at 12, 45, one o'clock. I was like, lady, you are crazy. This is crazy. I think at 23, I was like, I'm ready to get out. I'm ready to go on my own. And my mother was totally against it. Like she'd be like, you're not moving out, you're not ready, you're not none of this. And I'm like, I'm moving out. It was the first time I made a decision. I went downstairs on NerveFigure and I talked to my dad. was like, dad, I want to move. My dad was like, hey, you want to move? want to move? You know how Bob is like, yeah, think it's time for you to move. My mom was like, you're not moving. And I didn't think she took me serious until I started looking for apartments. And I'll never forget this as long as I live. I found an apartment. I was on the search too. I think I was like, I had finally got a real job. where I was like a real full-time job, a real adult job. I wasn't making good money. I was just making enough money at the time that I just knew I could get out. And back then, back then, I'm old, apartments were only like 650. Like they weren't really a lot of money to like move. I'll never forget. I mean, really, right? So my first apartment was $650. was one bedroom living in University City at that. Now come on, you can't even beat that. I was like on 42nd street. And I'll never forget, we went to go look at the apartment. My mom took me.
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ those were the days.
Ernest Thomas JR: and we went to go look at the apartment. was like seven o'clock at night, right? So it's pitch black. I'm just ready to move. So we go into the apartment. The apartment is trash. I should have never moved into that apartment. It was just dark. There was no electricity in the apartment complex. And so we saw this apartment in the dark and I looked around. I was like, yep, I'll take it. I'm moving. I'm ready to move in. And Monique, let me tell you, the bathroom was in the living room. That's how bad, like, so if I'm having guests, you got to go to the bathroom. Like, you're just walking right in the living room to go to bathroom. And if you had an experience in the bathroom, we all know what you experienced. Like, it was just that bad. And my mom didn't say that. She said, OK. She let me sign the lease. And I'll never forget. And I have a picture, and I have to find it ⁓ I I was packing up. I had no furniture. There was nothing. You know, hand-me-downs from family members. ⁓ And think this shift took place when she drove. ⁓ the pickup truck from our house to my new apartment. That's when the shift changed. That's when the friendship started to really ⁓ happen. ⁓ But it was still very, I'm your mother, you the son. Like it was still, she was telling me what to do in my own apartment. Like, you know, it was very much, I still need a key. It was very much, I would come home from work some days and my furniture was not the way I left it. You know, there was couches that was caddy cornered. There was like, you know, my mom had stuff everywhere. I feel like that was the first level when our relationship shifted. To believe it or not, it stayed like that until my grandmother passed, maybe about three years ago. We were still of like figuring out things, like my mother was still sort of ⁓ level, but ⁓ believe according to me that my mother was still holding the reigns as I'm the mother, you're the child from a place of I can still control everything. Like my mother would tell everybody, he's growing, he can make his own decisions, ⁓ she was... You're not doing this very much, you know. When my grandmother, that whole transition when my mother got sick during COVID, I believe that that's when the boat really changed our relationship. And not only were we mother and son, but we became friends. And I was able to really begin to have some honest conversations with her about life and work and where I was and some of the things that I had struggled with that I had kept buried on the inside for years. ⁓ watching my mother take care of her mother. and keeping her promise and taking care of her every day, we became friends because I saw the struggle and I saw the weight of my mother and I was able to help her. And she began to lean on me. You know, for years I've always leaned on my mom, even when I was a depth and I still bought $20 and I still bought $40, you know. At that point, I was at a place where she could lean on me and she could begin to become honest. And when my grandmother passed, that's when I was able to really start having real life conversations with her. And we have been amazing ever since.
Unbreakable Her: Yeah, that's that's amazing. That's amazing. before we move on, and this is come a complete digression, I just am really fascinated by the fact that your mom, even at 23, your mom was like, you don't need to go anywhere, which is a contrast to ⁓ lot of we see in black homes, which is
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: historically been this you eighteen you need to get out you need to go and I think you know recently and by recently you know the last I would say the last 10 years the discourse has started to shift like what don't don't do that. Eighteen year olds have no idea what's happening. Eighteen year olds cannot ⁓ survive by themselves. I mean we do it right but like that's not that's not ideal. We don't
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they can't. They can't. Yeah. No, it's not.
Unbreakable Her: You don't need to be kicking them out at eighteen. So I th I th I I think it's fascinating that your mom was just like, Mm mm, mm mm, nope.
Ernest Thomas JR: No, no. Yeah, No, yeah, my mother was, she was against it. And then when she was at my house every day when I moved, like there was always an excuse for her to be at my house. I'm like, lady, I need you to go where you live. you know, but I think mothers spend years teaching their sons how to leave them, but secretly praying that they never do. ⁓ And think that my mother ⁓ knew as a son and a black male that I have to teach him how to be independent.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: but I secretly don't want him to go out in the world because I know that the world is harmful. know, young black men are being killed. You you see a lot of things happening and my mother did not want that to happen to me. She didn't want me to struggle the way she did. You know, my mother never made our struggles look like struggles. Something about women, you mothers, you have a way of making struggles look so easy. I mean, even when you can see we're struggling, like you have a way of making it so comfortable. I look back at our life now and
Unbreakable Her: Man.
Ernest Thomas JR: I can now see times where my mother didn't know what was like, how we were gonna make it, how we were gonna do things. And she made it look easy. It's like, you know, they say, you know, black food, know, collard greens and things. We know how to make something out of nothing. And my mother always knew how to make something out of nothing. You know, she always knew how to make sure that I had the best of everything. Like I best, I didn't have to go to public school because she's gonna make sure that I had the best of everything.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: My mother also knew that there were certain things that as a boy, you need to know how to do. You need to be able to play sports. You need to be able to fight. We grew up, I grew up on 52nd Street. My grandmother lived on 52nd and Paxson Street. as a young boy, I was always clean. Let's just start from there. I was one of those clean young boys. We know what that means. Clean young boys, well-spoken. Back in the day, you I was wearing jeans with like, like, quarter-weight shoes. Like, I was just fly. You know, my dad was fly. So I was so, my mother had to make sure that knew how to fight. She had to know how to make sure I knew how to protect myself. She had to make sure that I'm... I could stand up for myself. That was the biggest thing for her, preparing me that you're not gonna let anybody play you. You're not gonna let anyone play in your face. You can speak up for yourself and still be respectful. you know, being a church boy, you don't always fight. So wasn't a big fighter growing up, but my mom was like, uh-uh, you ain't gonna be one of them church boys who don't know how to defend yourself, son. Yeah, we got the swords, you know, we got the full armor of God, but we got these as well. Put your hands up and block your face, right? My mother made sure that ⁓ my father was always present, even when they were separated. She made sure that his voice was always in my life. She made sure that she always spoke well of him, even when they weren't on the same page. She taught me, even though you don't have a typical family the way it's supposed to look right now, you're going to have a healthy family unit. And ⁓ I will always honor her for that. Like, I will always love her for that. ⁓ Sometimes you don't even know what to to prepare your child for. And that is the weird thing. I got to protect you from everything. But the world doesn't look the same way it does when I was 10 and when I was five. So my mother always had to make sure that she was staying on top of what was happening. She met all the friends. She was always up at school. She wanted to make sure that I was well-rounded at all times, not just a church boy. Yeah. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: Right. Right, right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. ⁓ how would you describe your mom? So like if if you mentioned some of this, ⁓ but ⁓ if ⁓ somebody you met somebody ⁓ and they never your they didn't know anything her, and you had like ninety seconds, how would you describe your mom to them so that you would give them a real solid sense of who she is as a person?
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. My mother is an outspoken, opinionated, sensitive woman ⁓ who will give you the shirt off her back. She's a woman that believes ⁓ ⁓ this is harder than I thought. Not because I don't know what to say. There's just so much you can say about her. ⁓ My mother who's someone who's gonna love you, she's gonna be your protector, she's gonna be your defender, ⁓ gonna be your battle ax ⁓ and she's going to push you. Yeah, hopefully I answered that right. Hopefully, mom, I hope I did you justice when you watch this. Don't be calling me like, don't know how to talk about your mother. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I always ask that question because I think sometimes people think they know. ⁓ from the outside, particularly like sometimes people get introduced to one characteristic and they think that that gives them full insight into who a person is. So if they've if they've met her as an opinionated person, they may not know the other pieces. And so, yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah, and that's true, right? I know a lot of times when you meet my mom, know, one thing I think I inherited from both my parents, either you're like me or not. Like, when you meet me in 90 seconds, you're either gonna be like, I like that person, or I'm like, I never want to talk to them again. And I think a lot of times people see my mom as a strong woman, but I don't think they realize how many years she was silent. How many years that she didn't have a voice. How many years that she wanted to speak up, but she couldn't speak up because of me.
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: And that is something that, okay, so, yeah, yeah, so, you know, I love when people say, you my mom sacrificed, you don't know the sacrifice my mom went through. And I think that is so true, you know what mean? Yeah, sometimes they have to work two and three jobs and sometimes they have to, you know, do a little bit extra. But sometimes mothers have to stay in places they don't wanna stay in in order to protect you. My mother stayed in situations longer than she wanted to.
Unbreakable Her: Okay, say more. Say more. Say more about that. I if you can.
Ernest Thomas JR: to ensure that I was safe. And I'm not talking about like marriage or anything. I'm just talking about an everyday life. There's a lot of things that your parents sacrifice and they do because of you. There's a lot of things that your parents won't say to protect you, to make sure that you have an opportunity. I believe there's plenty of my mom wanted to cuss people out, lay people out, but she knew that that would negatively impact me. So she kept her mouth shut. I know there are plenty of times my mom showed up to things that she didn't want to show up to because she didn't want to embarrass me.
Unbreakable Her: Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ Me and my mother, it's so funny, I'm almost 40 and my mother is still making life choices because she thinks she's protecting me. And me and my mother, I had to have a really hard time with her that day, like, mom, live your life. Like, if you don't like it, leave. Like, if you don't wanna be there, don't be there. I'm going to be cool, And I think that as children, when we get to a comfortable place, we have to really release our parents and say, I'm good. ⁓ And ⁓ I did not know I to that.
Unbreakable Her: Got you. Okay. Yeah, it does. It does.
Ernest Thomas JR: If that makes sense. Yeah, like I didn't know that I had to release my mom until it's okay. I'm good. I'm good. I'm going to be okay. I need you to be okay now because if you're not okay, I'm not okay. And I think what they see is a strong woman who's speaking, but I think it's because she had to be quiet for so long. She had to stay in situations she didn't want to be in. She had to close her mouth. You know,
Unbreakable Her: Yeah, yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: like, I forget the time where... There was a season in my life where I was struggling about who I was as an individual, what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. There was a season in my life I didn't think I was going to be 30 or 40 because I could not imagine what life would look like at 30 and 40. There was a season I didn't know if I want to go to the left or to the right. And I think that the things that I battled on the inside were showing publicly. So people speak to what they see, not knowing your full story. And ⁓ I'll never forget the time I was in church and I was a young kid at this time. So like, I was a young kid and I had experienced something that I was too scared to tell my parents at the time. And so I dealt with that. people being people, one young lady said to me, girl said to me, she says, you're just too feminine. Like you are just way too feminine. The way you walk, you and she was imitating the way I was walking church people. And to another lady in the church and they were laughing about it. And it hurt me so bad. Like it hurt me for a very long time. I never told my mom, never ever, because I just didn't know. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed that I was struggling with something. I was embarrassed to her because I didn't want it to look bad on her. And my mother, and I just recently told my mom this, like a couple months ago. I told her about this experience because I was writing about it and I wanted to tell her before she read it. And she said to me, she said, son, I've always known that. She said, what you didn't know is one of my friends was sitting in the back of the church.
Unbreakable Her: Wow. Okay.
Ernest Thomas JR: and they addressed it and they told me about it. And for years, my mom was like, there was one person my mom would just never be cool with. Like, she'd be like, you know, she's cordial, she has nothing. But you know how you are, when you mess with that child, I don't care if it was 30, 40 years ago, I'm still sighing on you, right? Like, forever, right? Like as Cardi B says, if you got beef with me, you got beef with me forever. And my mom was on it and I never understood why and it made, she knew, she knew. And...
Unbreakable Her: Mm. Forever. Forever. Mm.
Ernest Thomas JR: I understand. I just, understand what parents do, what they do. I understand why they respond the way they do. And I understand why my mom felt so uncomfortable leaving me alone.
Unbreakable Her: Mm. Wow.
Ernest Thomas JR: You know, and ⁓ you know, when you become a parent, guess they don't tell you that. I mean, they tell you that they're your kids forever, but they don't, I guess they don't explain that they're your kids forever. Doesn't matter if they're 60, 70, 80, 90. If someone hurts your child, it's as if they're hurting you as a kid.
Unbreakable Her: A hundred percent. Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah, so, you know, a lot of times a lot of people see my mom as a strong woman is because she's been fighting and defending me since I was six. Yeah. She knew that I was gonna be a problem. So she shows up for battle every single time.
Unbreakable Her: One of the questions that I was gonna ask you was just about, you know, what are ⁓ what are some things that ⁓ a thing or some things that you didn't understand fully as a younger person, but that you fully understand as an adult.
Ernest Thomas JR: One thing I didn't fully understand as a ⁓ child that I understand now as an adult is ⁓ my mom kept showing up when my parents were separated. Like, why couldn't you just live your life? Like, why did you have to still ⁓ up and pretend that you were having this big, we have this big family, like we're all good. ⁓ ⁓ mom taught me how to separate adult pain from parenting. That's one of the questions. And I did not realize that until now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is where I wanted to, wrote this down. I didn't think I was actually going to say this, ⁓ but I wanted to make sure that I honor my mom and said this correctly. My mom, you know, there was a season where I was struggling. There was a season where she was struggling. You know, things weren't always going well at home. There were some issues. Again, her testimony, she'll give it to her when she's ready. ⁓ But through it all,
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ wow. Okay. Okay, say more 'cause okay. Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: My mom told me that love shows up, right? Not just when things are perfect, not just when relationships are easy, real love shows up consistently. She taught me that you don't make your children carry adult pain. She never made me feel caught in the middle. She protected my relationship with my father, even during difficult seasons. You know, ⁓ and I appreciate that because... when I was struggling with some things, when me and my dad, and it's no secret, me and my dad have come a mighty long way. We are like, you know, I mean, ⁓ how can you not when you look just like him? Sitting bald and all about, you know. And my mom always set the tone of how I handle things. Because you know, us, when we get real emotional, I don't care who around. You know what I mean? I'ma let you know how I feel. I'ma pop off. But my mom always taught me how to She always taught me, excuse me, how to show up. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: Yeah.
Ernest Thomas JR: to keep your family sacred without pretending that everything was perfect. You know, mama, everything wasn't always perfect, but it was our family. It was our drama. was stuff that we had to deal with. And even though things are not right, okay right now, we'll handle that later, but we gonna show up as one family unit because at the end of the day, you got me and I got you and that's all we have. And I didn't understand that as a child. I didn't understand, you know, I'm like, mom, you know, don't you, you know, why are you coming? And she said, you know, I have to. You're my son. And ⁓ I didn't understand that as a kid. I just, you know, I didn't, Christmases was always together. You, you know, you know, ⁓ yeah, everything was always together. Right? When I opened up for Christmas, everybody was there. When I went to bed for Christmas, everything was there. You know, there was no, is what you get on your dad's side. This is what you get. Everything was just one. ⁓ And I never felt what was going on between them two.
Unbreakable Her: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay.
Ernest Thomas JR: never felt one ounce of it. She respected who he was in my life.
Unbreakable Her: Mm. That is a gift because it can be very difficult for children having basically just being forced to choose sides and navigate that alone because the custodial parent is locked in their grief and anger. ⁓ and that's honestly, that is no judgment because.
Ernest Thomas JR: ⁓ my, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: When you don't have when people don't have the people don't always have the tools to navigate hardship, particularly as parents. And so, you know, you saying that your mom taught you that you don't have to make adult problems, you don't have to put the adult problems onto a child. ⁓ I mean, that that truly is a gift because it's it's
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: There's so many stories that people spend a lot of time in therapy trying to unravel and, you know, untangle those experiences. ⁓ so it's that's definitely a gift.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. And she taught me therapy early. And listen, before there was social media, before the therapy became the new thing, I was in therapy at a young age. I think the first time I got smart with her, she said, before I kill you and have a jail ministry, we're to... She says, before I end up in jail, I'm going to take you over to talk to somebody and they're going to figure out what's going on the inside of you. Maybe you got some things you need to work out. And we gonna figure that out now because you talking to me like this means you want to go to heaven early. So yeah, yeah. Thomas, listen, I am who I am wherever I am. Yeah. Good. Absolutely. All day long. Yeah. We are who we are, wherever we are. He wants me to be behind jails and tell the story of his goodness. But you're going to heaven.
Unbreakable Her: She not the prison ministry. Cause she like, look, I'm I'm I'm called who I'm called to be. Even after putting you where I'ma put you, we gon we gon ahead and and we're gonna have the prison ministry if we don't take care of this.
Ernest Thomas JR: Because if you keep talking to me like that, you're going to heaven at a young age. Yeah, I'm going be at the funeral though. I'm a planet. I'm going put you down well. But after that, they taking me to Sing Sing.
Unbreakable Her: And I'm going to prison. All right. ⁓ boy. ⁓ boy. I love that. I love that. ⁓ that she, you know, valued and instilled care for mental health early. So that yeah, that's that's really important. And I think it speaks to, you know, like you said, your mom has always been really big on education. She is an educated woman, very much so. ⁓
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
Unbreakable Her: Not just not just it's not always about like the credentials, but it's about being in spaces where you just you learn information that you may not have been exposed to
Ernest Thomas JR: Yes.
Unbreakable Her: ⁓ 'cause you don't know what you don't know. You know, we don't know.
Ernest Thomas JR: You don't, you know, my mom, my mom was huge on education. Even now she's huge on education. If you want to get my mom hot under the collar, say something about going to school. Like saying something like, you know, I never forget my mom gets hot under the collar when people say, you don't need all that education and education. And my mom, you want to get her hot under the collar and get her in a debate?
Unbreakable Her: Mm-hmm.
Ernest Thomas JR: Because my mom told me at a young age, she said, you're not going to be deep in church and clueless at the bank. I said, well, I said, OK. You're going to know how to write a check. You're going know how to write a check.
Unbreakable Her: Mm- Yeah
Ernest Thomas JR: She said, you know, she said, they can't go to school. That's why they're down in education. My mother is huge, Monique. I say, when I thought I got called to the ministry, I thought that was the hardest thing I was going to have to do. I thought going to the board was going to be the hardest thing. Going through Patrice. was the hardest thing. I'm 40 and I, well I'll be 40 and it's still like, if I have, I can have a sermon that I've prayed about. And I'm like, yeah, I did the research. It's prayer fasting prep Patrice. ⁓ The sermon that hear Sunday, ⁓ some part of it has gone through the Patrice prep.
Unbreakable Her: I love it. I love it.
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. ⁓
Unbreakable Her: I love that. ⁓ yeah, so I think that's a it's a good place for us to ⁓ to land to land the ⁓ I want to make sure that we captured everything that you wanna say about her, and then we're gonna end with you just taking ⁓ a moment to look right in your camera and say what you want to say to her. So is there anything that we that we haven't touched that you think is important to share about her before you talk to her?
Ernest Thomas JR: So... don't so. mean, my mother is an awesome woman. That's all I can say. I would not be who I am without her. I ⁓ think God has a really funny sense of humor when he gives you someone who is you. And ⁓ I am proud of the person I am because of her. Both parents, obviously, but this is her story. ⁓ And I want to say, Mom, I love you to death. I know I get on your last nerve, and I probably still owe you $20. But that's okay, right? You have loved me through what I thought was some of the hardest seasons of my life. You have shown up for me when I embarrassed both of us. When I was wrong, you showed up for me. When I was right, you showed up for me. ⁓ I am grateful for every sacrifice you have made for me. I am grateful that you showed up for me even when you didn't want to. I am grateful that even when you felt like I put other people before you, you still loved me and you... understood. I may call many people mom, but you are my only mother. And I am grateful that God chose you to be my mother and me to be your son. for the rest of my life, I will try to repay you for every sacrifice you have given to me. I would not be here. I not be at this job. I would not be managing people if it wasn't for every lesson that you given me. ⁓ You a walking talking example of what it's like to live. a true Christian life, even when it's a little bit messy, even when you got to figure things out. You are a walking example. I am your biggest fan. I will always be in your corner. There's nothing that you do that I won't be at some form. When you get old, I'm going to make sure you're in the nicest nursing home I can possibly. ⁓ And I just appreciate you. I am the man I am today. I may not be a perfect man, but I am a man that I am today because of all you've done for me. And I hope that this podcast celebrates you and someone looks you up and find out who is this woman that raised this crazy young man.
Unbreakable Her: That's awesome. And I hope the same. ⁓ thank you so, so much for sharing your mom with us. ⁓ I can't wait to release the episode so that you know she gets to see how much she means to you. And I'm sure you've said it in many forms, but ⁓ this will be a public one that will live on. ⁓ it'll be on it'll be on many different platforms so she can rewatch it anytime that she
Ernest Thomas JR: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I pray, Monique, that this helps you. Like, I know that you're doing this, and we talked about why, but I hope that this helps you as you raise your kids and become a phenomenal mom that you are, because you are doing an awesome job. I look forward to the videos between you and your son. I think I may have seen him maybe three times in person, if that.
Unbreakable Her: If she ever is wondering, did I do a good job? ⁓ she'll be able to to to pull this up and put and press play. So that's awesome. Thank you.
Ernest Thomas JR: But I feel like I've known your son since the day he was born, just watching him, and you're doing an incredible job. Please keep giving voices to unsung heroes. We always talk about the big people. We always talk about the big people that's doing things, and we always honor the big people. But if it had not been for some of these unsung voices, some of us would be in jail, crazy dead, out of our mind. And thank you for giving voices to people that may have never had an opportunity to tell their story.
Unbreakable Her: Thank you. That means a great deal. Thank you so much. And on that note, thank you for joining us. for everyone who's listening, please make sure that you engage with this, ⁓ with this content, with the episode, comment, like, share, do all the things. ⁓ and until next time, stay unbreakable.
Ernest Thomas JR: You're welcome. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Thank you for having me. Stay unbreakable.
