39: Hard work

If you’ve ever heard someone complain about how lazy this generation is, lament about how there’s no work ethic anymore, or question why people work hard enough to create the life they want, then you will relate hard to this week’s episode.

It’s time for us to tackle the myth that hard work always equals success; not that putting in effort is a bad thing, but that much more can be required to make a dream come true. We know people who work harder than most folks just so they can keep a roof over their heads and their families fed—not to build a fortune. We also know that working tirelessly isn’t always required to achieve success.

Links

Millenials are the first generation to earn less than their parents

House of El

Rowan’s new coffee shop!

Lara’s mail club!

Transcript

(Please note these are not edited carefully for accuracy)

[00:00:00] Lara: for those people who feel so strongly that. If all the people whining about not having success just worked harder, they would be successful. What we’re saying is if, that’s how you feel, maybe a little reframe is in order, Welcome to unboxing it. I’m Lara.

[00:00:40] Rowan: And I’m Rowan

[00:00:41] Lara: and we are here on the very first time we’re recording when Rowan has opened his coffee shop. Yay!

[00:00:50] Rowan: Yay! I actually right before I said, and I’m Rowan was yawning.

[00:00:55] Lara: Yes. Yes. So the last time we recorded, we still, were saying we hope by the time you hear this, the coffee shop will be open, but now it is open.

It’s been open for almost three weeks and I just wanna celebrate for Rowan because you’re loving it.

[00:01:12] Rowan: I am absolutely loving it. Yeah. Dani and I are enamored with this new life that we’ve started. It is. Everything I dreamed of and more and I mean, we’re still in the honeymoon phase in a way because it’s brand new.

People are still discovering it, still coming in and saying like, oh wow, it’s such a beautiful space. I love it here. I love your coffee, or whatever it might be, but also it has been. An absolute ride in other ways. We already had a pipe burst in the ceiling and we were there all night. Dani was there all night.

Thank you Dani. And I was there all day. The next day while she slept, we’ve had, an electrician blow the lights in the front, and I’m not talking trip a breaker, I’m talking installing a carbon monoxide detector and blowing the lights. In a dining area full of people with a big pow and a big spark fest, then all of my, customers sitting in the dark, having a chuckle over this for an hour while it was fixed.

I mean, there’s been a lot of things, right? Hauling out the garbage at nine o’clock at night because I forgot it was garbage night. I had to go back in my pajamas to do it. I mean, it’s just, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it’s also been wonderful, like 20 days. 20 days of doing the thing that I wanted to do my entire life.

I’ve always wanted, since I was a teenager, to. Own a coffee shop, and I own a coffee shop now, and it is absolutely amazing. although this is my, literally my first day off in 20 days, and I’ve been working at least 12 hours straight every single day. So I’m tired, but I’m happy

[00:02:56] Lara: I love it. I have seen a lot of online chatter.

I’m sad I haven’t been able to go in yet because I live, you know, a little bit far away.

[00:03:06] Rowan: A little bit, little

[00:03:07] Lara: bit, a little bit.

[00:03:08] Rowan: Only four hours. What’s wrong with you?

[00:03:10] Lara: I know, I know. Which means I’m close enough to get there. Sooner than later, but I’m seeing so much chatter online about how much people love it already.

And I’m just thrilled for you. So everybody who’s listening who’s in Toronto should go check out Under Story, which is at the address. Rowan will now say.

[00:03:30] Rowan: It’s at 5 0 5 Church Street at, the corner of church in Wellesley. It’s the little spot right next to the pizza, pizza and it has a giant lit up understory sign, so you can’t miss it.

[00:03:42] Lara: So go check it out. And if you can’t get there soon, because like me, you’re not near there, go check it out online because it’s awesome and I am very proud of both you and Dani, and thrilled for you.

[00:03:53] Rowan: Thank you. Thank you. And I think that it got me thinking about this week’s topic, which I texted you about earlier and said, I think I really wanna dig into this because.

I am working really hard right now, and I mean, I don’t think I’ve ever worked harder in my life and I’ve done a lot of things. I’ve raised children. I wrote two books. , You know, I’ve traveled to speak, I’ve done all these different kinds of things, book tours, and, , worked in a school and I, cleaned homes, and all of those things have been in their own ways, tiring.

Now I am very tired because I am working these really, really long hours and there are very few breaks. But I have been thinking a lot about the privilege surrounding, and people are probably sick of me saying privilege on this podcast, but I’m gonna say it because it keeps coming up and it makes me mad that so, okay, sorry.

I’ll recenter myself now. My brain’s a little tired. I’ve been thinking about the fact that Dani and I would not have been able to do this and open this shop if we had not had. Some stability. First. We had some savings we could pull from that really helped. We had the ability to write a good business plan and to pitch it well, because Dani and I are both presenters by trade.

She from advertising me in the DEI human rights spaces. And so we were able to pitch this to the bank and the federal government and secure a loan for ourselves to make this happen. That is why we have the privilege of opening a coffee shop and supporting ourselves in this way, even if it means that we’re still working really long hours so we can afford to hire people.

And I see online all of the time, people who go, well. If you just worked harder, if you just worked hard like I did, you could own a house. If you just worked hard enough, you could go to school like I did and get two degrees and then get a good job. If you just worked harder, you could, you know, say in the us, pay your medical bills.

Like, it’s just, this idea that comes from privilege in my opinion. 99% of the time that if you just work hard enough, you can live your dream. Whatever that dream is, where you are financially stable, successful in some way, home ownership, business ownership, whatever it might be, and. You know, I’m doing it right now, and I’m telling you, that’s just not true.

Not everybody can just work their way into their dream life. , You know, I’m not saying that hard work doesn’t pay off. I do think that hard work does pay off if I didn’t work this hard. I would not have a coffee shop right now. But at the same time, if I didn’t have the means in the first place to secure the financing, I also wouldn’t have a coffee shop.

And there’s no way to work hard enough for that to happen for some people. So I just, I really wanna swear at these people sometimes, and I don’t swear at them, but I really wanna swear at them. It makes me really, really mad.

[00:07:00] Lara: Yeah. A lot of this I think, is. The American Dream, we’re Canadian. But the American dream is, I think something that the whole world has seen most of their lives as if you work hard, you can make your dreams come true.

And certainly, some people have worked hard and made their dreams come true. I also think it used to be easier. In some ways for that to happen. We don’t need to dig into that too much, but I do think it used to be easier. And now we are applying the same, quote unquote rules of if you work really hard, you can change your life.

When the world is no longer set up to do that. We have come into an age where. It is very difficult to get ahead. I believe this is the first generation that isn’t making more than their parents. maybe millennials, I’m not sure. But I know that like it always used to be that kids made more than their parents and we, it’s like we hit a cap like now with inflation, how much everything costs.

It’s no longer simply a matter of if you’re responsible with your income, you’re gonna have enough to have savings to do all the big, magical things that will make sure that your life is good. it’s just no longer true.

[00:08:18] Rowan: We still think we’re living in 1955, where, you know, you would see these iconic pictures, either stills or movies or whatever.

And you had these families with, a nice car, maybe two, a house, two kids, you know, and then they also maybe had a cottage. Now, if you have a cottage, it’s probably been passed down in your family. Very few people. Are just buying a cottage these days. and if they’re buying a cottage, they often don’t own property outside of that cottage, so maybe renting in the city or something, like, it’s a very different time.

You know, you have people who are working way harder than me. They’re working two, three jobs and they’re still barely making it because rent is so expensive. their mortgage has increased, or, you know, food is astronomical, and I don’t need to say all that. But , the other thing is I watch a really interesting finance expert, which I’ll make sure we put in the show notes called House of El.

And she does like banking, but she also, studies analytics essentially. She’s, really quite something. I believe she was saying the other day and I, I could be slightly off with these numbers, but I don’t think I’m far off. If I am slightly off that stocks are doing really well in the us things are doing well, so why are people struggling so hard?

And it’s something like the top 10% of earners in the US. Are doing 50% of the purchasing right now, and the other 90% are doing the other 50%. So that’s why even though it looks like the economy is good and you see it on paper, it looks good. It actually isn’t for the average person. So for somebody. I’m imagining when people say this type of thing to each other online, you’ve got somebody in the top 70, 80, 90% who has the home, who has a stable job, who has insurance, who has all these things.

Talking down to people who don’t have those things as if they can get there. If they just put in the elbow grease, I can’t stand it.

[00:10:33] Lara: Because they want to feel like they made this happen. There was no luck or privilege involved. They really wanna believe that they were fully responsible for their success.

And I mean, I understand where that feeling would come from, but we need to acknowledge that not everybody comes from the same place. Like I do know some people who definitely in our age do have two homes like not everybody. Is in a situation where they can’t do that anymore. I think it’s just a little harder to go from poor to not poor.

I think it’s harder to just see the path forward. That’s not to say it never happens, but hard work alone won’t get you from having nothing to having everything, and therefore people acting judgy. About people not having is just, it’s not, it’s not fair. It’s not fair. Like you’re not, acknowledging the truth because if the stock market is doing well and you have no investments, that is not helpful.

[00:11:41] Rowan: Right, exactly. If you have investments, great. You can sell some of your stock, buy a new car, go on vacation, whatever you want. Or you just sort of are holding this stock portfolio with all these imaginary dollars in it going, if I were to sell today, I would be worth a lot of money.

But I also think there’s something else that’s happening, and I think it’s that deep down. People who are doing well are deeply terrified of not doing well. I think a lot of us have that survival inside of us, right? You do have some people who are like, I will always do well no matter what, because I am, so good at business and I’ve got myself set up really well.

And that may be the case for some people. And for some people they may be telling themselves that too, and that’s not the case. But I digress. I do think that there are some people who look at those who are struggling. Subconsciously don’t ever wanna admit to themselves. That could be me. I’m a couple of paychecks away from that.

Or I am a stock market crash away from that. Or I am one job cut away from that. You know, , and so it’s so much easier to make up a story. That if I just work hard enough, everything will be okay because so far that has been true. That has been true for you. You did work hard.

Maybe you did work yourself up from nothing. Maybe you had nothing before and you have something now and you think that’s it. I’ve arrived and if I just keep doing this thing, nobody could ever touch me like. Friends. That is not how it works. I have by all measures right now, a very successful coffee shop.

I really do. The numbers are good. Things are good. People are showing up, most importantly to me. The community loves it, and that just brings me so much joy. I’m very happy at my job and I’m happy seeing these other people happy. That is the most important metric to me. But just going back to numbers, because that is sort of what we’re talking about right now.

If a whole bunch of people were to lose their jobs. Then they’re not coming to my coffee shop anymore, which means I’m not making money anymore, which means I might have to close. I’m very aware of this. Does it keep me up at night? No, because I can’t control that. All I can do is control what is happening in my day-to-day life to an extent, and that’s it, right?

So I don’t worry about all those what ifs. I don’t have the time, and it would serve me no purpose, but. I am not going to sit here and go see everyone, see kids. I just had to work hard enough. I had to work hard enough and that’s how I got here. No, no. I did work really hard and I got here and we talked about some of the things that helped that, right?

Some investments I made some investments my partner made and the things that allowed us to do that, but I am really. A few months away from losing everything. Just like a lot of people. And I’m not going to sit here and look down at others just because I’m in a good place right now.

That would be extremely egotistical and extremely unrealistic.

[00:14:39] Lara: Yeah. so I guess I think what the point is we’re trying to make is for those people who feel so strongly that. If all the people whining about not having success just worked harder, they would be successful. What we’re saying is if, that’s how you feel, maybe a little reframe is in order, right?

A little bit of it’s not as simple as that. It just isn’t. It just isn’t. And to think that younger generations just don’t work hard and that’s why they don’t have the things that you did by their age. Is simply not true. And again, if that’s how you’re feeling, spend a little time asking yourself. Is that true?

[00:15:23] Rowan: I think it just comes down to, empathy and empathy really just is trying to understand what somebody else is going through. Not just seeing it through your own lens, right? So it’s really about looking at someone else’s situation and recognizing they’re their own person with their own set of circumstances, who grew up in their own family, in their own, say, place in the world, whatever it might be.

And I think most of us are really trying our best, like just up the road from the coffee shop, there’s a park, and that park is well known, for , drug selling, drug use. And as a result we get. A lot of people who walk by and occasionally come in who are struggling with substance use disorders, crack crystal, meth, et cetera, and

there’s no part of me. And I see it sometimes, and I hear people talk about drug users and I’m, not talking about drug users like, you know, people who smoke pot. I’m talking about people are using hard drugs like that. And where there is an addiction issue, I see and hear a lot of judgment around that.

But all of these people are people who have struggled deeply, A lot of them are dealing with mental health issues. They did not have access to help for, did not have the means to get that help. The resources were not there. they can’t afford their medications or they’re not being monitored because there aren’t enough doctors, et cetera, et cetera.

And or they’re dealing with significant trauma, but they’ve never had the means, the support for that. Or they’re dealing with housing insecurity or they’re dealing with food insecurity. They have no one to support them. They don’t have families necessarily who care for them. I mean, these are human beings.

They didn’t just suddenly become people who are using drugs every day. And, they’re people who. Were children who grew up, who went to school, who had families, who had lives, who had friends, and something happened along the way where it became a part of their story that they are now very addicted to substances.

I’m sure that was never the intent, it’s just what happened. And They have many more rungs on the ladder to climb. And frankly, for the, most part, always did have many more rungs on the ladder to climb, to make it up to where a lot of us are today. I was down there for a while.

I went to rehab at 14. I lived in shelters when I was a teenager. I was on social assistance. you know, I lived that life and I knew a lot of people like that. I made it out of that life. And I will never forget the people that I met who never did make it out of that life. And I think that’s why when I hear someone say, people just need to work harder, I think that’s the same type of person who will often judge people who are in a more challenging situation.

And. I really wish that we all could just put ourselves in somebody else’s shoes for, just a little while and learn like, I think libraries sometimes they have those,human book nights, if you will, right where you can almost like borrow a human and sit down with them and they tell you all about themselves and you learn something.

Gosh, I wish that was almost mandatory for some people so they could see that not everyone lives the same life they do and not everyone has the same access to what they have.

[00:18:57] Lara: Yeah. All of this is making me think about something that I talk about a lot, which is that we’re all different, right?

, We’re not all starting from the same baseline, and I think people forget that. So when we talk about privilege, it could be. Financial privilege could be all kinds of things, right? Like you came from more money, you came from a more educated background that then therefore puts you into a more education.

There’s all kinds of things that can be privileged. And as you were talking, I was thinking about some of the other privileges, like being someone who has a non-addictive body. So I was thinking just this past week So one of my kids had all four wisdom teeth out. They had a lot of pain. They were prescribed, I don’t know, hydrocodone, something like that, which is one of those things where they’re like, watch out, you can get addicted to it.

And they took it and it did nothing. And I said, oh honey, you’re just like me. It does nothing. Right. I have had a lot of pain in my life and they prescribe what I like. When I first was prescribed, essentially hydrocodone, any, some kind of, you know, narcotics for pain, I was really angry ‘cause I thought the doctor just gave me something weak because nothing happened and Advil worked better.

And so my kid had the same thing happen. So I said to them. Well, the one bright side is we’re never gonna get addicted to this stuff.

[00:20:26] Rowan: Right, exactly.

[00:20:28] Lara: Because whatever it is that people, you know, gives them that really great high and that they love, like, doesn’t happen. So that’s not gonna happen to me.

there are a lot of people who have the privilege of a body that works really well that is. Comfortable and wants to do exercise. So for everybody who thinks like, oh, if everybody just like did what I do, they would also feel great. And I’d be like, no buddy. We’re not starting from the same place you are assuming that if I just got myself together and did what you do, you know, you’d see, you’d see, you’d feel better.

And I am promising you guys that it is. At least 100 times harder for me to do that thing that they’re doing than it is for them. That’s not to say I can never do it, but like let’s acknowledge that it’s a hundred times harder.

[00:21:21] Rowan: Yeah. You know, I think, you know, like I’ve, been complaining a lot on this podcast, but along the lines of what you just talked about, I’d, I’d like to offer a solution.

I think that rather than, say if everybody just worked harder, they could get to where I am. I think that’s often said out of frustration too, because somebody’s looking at other people, they’re like, oh, they’re just getting handouts. They’re just getting handouts because you know, they don’t wanna work.

I have this great idea. What if those of us who have been successful, who are successful in whatever metric you want to use for that, what if we mentored those, who are looking at. Their own success, their own path to success. A lot of people do mentor, but I am really talking about, you know, there’s the Boys and Girls Club, for example.

That is a great way to get involved and help kids who you know, have big dreams and wanna do something with their lives. Right? And if you’re doing it, gosh, you could be such a good. Person to help them with that. But like there are smaller ways too. Like I’ve actually sat down probably three times now since I opened the coffee shop with patrons who are.

wanting to write their own memoirs or they’re in the process of writing a memoir or they’re thinking about writing a memoir. Well, I’ve written two memoirs and both of them got on bestseller lists, so I guess I, it’s probably safe to say that I know a thing or two about writing memoir, and I have this ability now to support other people in that dream and maybe.

They don’t have access to somebody other than me right now who could teach them. And I, I’ve been thinking about hosting a memoir writing seminar. Where, you know, people could just come in, buy a coffee, buy a glass of wine, whatever, and we could sit and chat about what it looks like to write a memoir, to plan one out, et cetera, et cetera.

Because even last night we hosted our first writer’s group. So they come in every Tuesday now and they. Stay until close. I stay open late and they stay for about three hours and they write and they take breaks and they chat and then they write some more. And I introduced myself to the group and some of them knew me and a lot of them did not know me.

And I explained, you know, my writing background and I said, what means a lot to me is that I once, when I was first starting out. Went into coffee shops and wrote my first book. I wrote my first piece for The Globe and Mail. I wrote all these different things in coffee shops, and now I own a coffee shop where other people are coming to write, and I said, no matter what.

You are writing. I’m so excited about this. And who knows? Maybe the next person who gets published is sitting right here tonight writing that story in my coffee shop. That means the world to me. Right? So it’s like that is a way that I can support other people who are up and coming. So I just think there’s all these ways that we can get involved rather than just complain or pass judgment.

[00:24:34] Lara: Yeah. And I think some of the people listening are gonna be like, yeah, well, I. don’t think that, I haven’t been thinking that, right. I’m not trying to tell everybody to just work harder. either way, it’s a good reminder that there are ways that we can help that don’t have to be huge, right? We don’t have to be able to donate thousands of dollars to make a difference.

We can donate a bit of our time, we can donate our time one-on-one without taking on a long-term volunteer role. Like there are so many things that we can do. And so the flip side of the. statement, if you work hard, you’ll find success is that it takes hard work to find success.

And I think that talking a little bit about that is worthwhile too, because hard work is good. Like, I’m not saying never work hard, folks, like that’s not what I’m saying, but I am saying that sometimes we work harder than we need to to try to find success. Then we don’t give ourselves room to find the easier ways that things could happen.

And if you’re go, go, go, push, push, push, push, push, push. I need to do more. I need to do more. The only way that this will work is if I do more. And then you get exhausted. You crash out. You burn out. That’s not better than looking for, are there things I could do here that are easier? Are there things that I could do here that.

Will save me time so I don’t have to work as much. And when you ask yourself those questions, you can often find ways to simplify things. But if you think working hard is what is required, you’re not gonna look for those opportunities.

[00:26:08] Rowan: Yeah, and influencers are not helping that right now. They’re, I’ve been watching a lot of people like these reaction videos on YouTube to the influencers.

They tend to mostly be men who are like, I get up at 4:40 AM and I, go for a run and then I meditate, and then I answer my emails, and then I have a shower, and then I eat this. Super complicated breakfast, and then he gets to work at like 7:30 AM and he works until 7:00 PM and I’m just like, bro, this is not realistic.

It’s not sustainable. It’s not sustainable for anybody. And. You’re teaching all of these young people that this is the only way to be successful and that frankly the only metric for success is to have this life that is very financially. fruitful. Right. because he’ll get into his nice car after he leaves this beautiful condo and he has this like, gorgeous model girlfriend who is probably an actor, but Okay.

Like, is part of this whole thing that he’s trying to sell. it’s sad because I think that what then we learn is that. If we find an easier way to do something, a little hack that makes something easier for us to be successful, we somehow think it’s wrong and that it’s like dirty, dirty, bad for us to actually use it.

and then the only people paying the price for that are us and maybe our loved ones who see us less. Right. It’s unfortunate.

[00:27:42] Lara: Yeah. The pictures people paint are unrealistic. It made me think as you were talking, Gilmore Girls was one of my favorite shows ever. Loved Gilmore Girls. And one of the funny things that would often happen when we were watching, in the earlier years, there’s this period where Rory, who is the daughter, goes to a private school that’s like an hour away.

You know, it was an early start ish school and every morning they seem to have gone and done something and then gone for breakfast and then she catch the bus and she take an hour to school and then it’s 8:00 AM and I’m like, what time are they waking up 3:00 AM like, this is not, the timeline is flawed.

[00:28:25] Rowan: It’s true.

[00:28:26] Lara: and that’s some of the stuff, right? We see people talk about everything. I’ve heard other people say that, oh, I did a morning routine. ‘cause people say You should have a morning routine. And if I did my morning routine every morning, it would take two and a half hours. I don’t have two and a half hours.

they’re making it sound like if I just took 15 minutes this morning routine, which is the things they say you should do, it would take two and a half hours. We don’t have that. And so when people present. Things as realistic when they’re not realistic. That just reinforces the fact that we think we’re failing at something, that we’re not working hard enough, that we should be working harder.

Why aren’t we pushing through the difficult? Because other people can do it when really, like I said, the pictures they’re painting are incorrect. They’re not. Giving us something that can be successful. So when you stop and you look at it and you think, what is realistic? What will work for me? What is actually a worthwhile use of my time right now?

Then you can start to find ways. That are not going to, you know, make you feel terrible all the time because you’re not living up to any expectations that you’ve set for yourself. Because they were unrealistic to begin with.

[00:29:36] Rowan: Exactly. Oh, life is all about balance. It’s all about balance. And. Really, I think of the older I get, the more I realize I’ve been hard on myself, for most of my life.

Setting these really unrealistic standards, holding myself to them, and then often trying to hold other people to them. So I also think that sometimes when somebody is feeling like if other people just worked as hard as I work, then they will be successful.

They might not be super happy where they are either, you know? Like we’ve been told that if we have certain things, if we achieve certain goals, then that will make us happy. And I don’t know why we all bought into it, but a lot of us did.

[00:30:30] Lara: Brainwashing

[00:30:32] Rowan: brainwashing marketing. it’s a beautiful thing.

and it’s sad how many people I’ve met who are very financially successful and really unhappy because, see, they’re unhappy by the way that they treat other people. I’ve had. 99.99999%. Wonderful interactions with my customers. Truly so kind. So many people, many more people than I expected.

One person walked in, you know, suit, tie, lots of money. At least wanted to present. Like they had a lot of money. I don’t know. I don’t know their bank account. And was really rude and he was like talking down to me, you know, like I was the lowly person making his coffee and I am not an insecure person these days, so I had.

No desire to prove him wrong. I don’t care. He doesn’t need to know I’m the owner. He doesn’t need to know what I’ve done in the past. I don’t need to put him in his place, so to speak, or whatever. , It doesn’t matter to me. but all I could think about is I actually just felt sorry for him.

Because if he’s treating me this way and I, you know, I’m about his age and I’m not like some young kid who’s making minimum wage at a coffee shop , like if he’s treating me like that. He’s probably treating everybody who he does not consider his equal like that or worse.

And that to me just screams misery. It screams like I got here. Look at me. I did it. I’m better than you see because I’m here and you’re not here. I’m here and you are there. And if you just worked hard like me, you could have this perfect thing that I have. And no bro, you’re not happy. You’re not happy because if you were happy, you wouldn’t be treating people like that.

So I actually just feel sorry for people now who, think that because I think that they’ve boxed themselves into a belief system that isn’t even working for them, that they are still trying to convince themselves and everyone else around them that it is the best thing ever.

Yeah.

[00:32:38] Lara: Freeing ourselves from that, whether it be freeing ourselves from the idea that we did it all right and other people suck, or freeing ourselves up from the fact that we suck ‘cause we didn’t get it all. Whatever it is, that’s what this podcast is all about, right? We wanna just keep looking at the way society has told us what’s true.

And say, but is it? And I think this is a good one to remember is it doesn’t have to be one way. We all do things differently and we can all get places differently. So just remember that.

[00:33:13] Rowan: Yeah. And I, don’t want. To have these conversations and have somebody who’s trying to make a dream happen, think, well, you know what, Rowan’s, right?

I’ll never be able to because of X, Y, Z. I certainly have had some privilege in my life, but I have also had a lot of hardship. That hardship is well documented. I mentioned it occasionally. I’ve got a couple books about some of it, and there’s a lot of it I’ve never even talked about, but believe me, it was really tough.

And I got here. So I’m also a believer that we can achieve our dreams. It’s just some of us have to take a different route and some of us have to realign our expectations a little bit. , and that’s okay too. But I don’t want you to give up. On what it is you’re trying to achieve, like That is not what I’m saying.

Like I’m not saying it’s not possible, I’m just not saying that it is necessarily as easy as a lot of people want you to believe. It’s because. That’s unfair. It’s unfair. I don’t wanna sit here and go just because I did the thing I always wanted to do, then it, should be super easy for you to do.

It wasn’t even easy for me to do. Right. And I’m almost 50. I wanted to do this back. I tried to open a coffee shop when I was 18 years old. And I wasn’t able to do it right, but I had to work a lot longer to get there. And I did get there, but I just think that there’s this gray area in between.

Everybody can do everything. They just have to work hard enough and, nobody can do anything because they don’t have enough privilege. Like there’s certainly this in-between space, but let’s just show ourselves and each other some grace and help each other get. Where they wanna be, because that’s a really great feeling too, when you can help somebody else get a step closer to their goals.

That’s wonderful. And , that’s just part of the human experience.

[00:35:15] Lara: Yeah, a lot is possible. Keep dreaming your dreams, keep working towards them. And then remember all the other things we said today too.

[00:35:24] Rowan: Be kind to yourselves and be kind to each other. I think that’s it. And with that, I actually have to go back to work now.

So this has been really fun. I have to go help Dani close the shop because we’re going to a concert tonight, so that’s fun too.

[00:35:39] Lara: Yes, well have fun at your concert and everybody else. We’ll see you in two weeks.

[00:35:43] Rowan: Take care everybody. Thanks for joining us. And don’t forget to like, and don’t forget to subscribe.

I think that’s a YouTube thing, but also you could do it on our substack.

[00:35:53] Lara: You sure can.