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Welcome to Two Hypnotherapist Talking with me, Denise Bill and Mahia in Delaware, USA.
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And me, Larry Robert in St.
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Helens, United Kingdom.
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This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.
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I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children.
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And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist.
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We are two hypnotherapists talking.
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So let's get on with the episode.
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Welcome, Mark.
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It's lovely to see a creative mentor who's based in the Algarve in Portugal.
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Through Mark Wilson Studio, Mark helps creative silence that inner critic and move past the imposter syndrome that keeps so many of them stuck.
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Mark spent 20 years as a professional photographer before giving himself permission to paint.
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And he is co-founder with his lovely wife Sue of Evolve Minds Hypnosis Academy and Solutions for Therapists, where he trains hypnotherapists and therapists online across the UK, Europe, and beyond.
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Thank you very much.
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It's always stunning, isn't it, when you hear the backstories for all hypnosis, you know.
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But everybody comes from a completely different angle.
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It's really fascinating.
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And we all think the same thing.
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Mark was actually my tutor when I trained, and he's now a really good friend along with his wife soon.
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And we cross paths quite a lot, don't we?
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Do absolutely.
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You have an academy yourself, your new wife?
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Yeah, I do, yeah.
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We've been doing training since 2014 with Evolved Minds Hypnosis Academy, and we do a 10-month, 10-module training course in hypnotherapy.
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Excellent.
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I really don't like to meet people that say you can do it in two weeks.
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They make me nervous.
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So do you that are they in person or is this long distance?
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Well, this is the thing.
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I uh there's this sort of little bit of fusion going on now.
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We we were face to face, and then that little incident happened in 2020.
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The COVID thingy, mm-hmm.
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Yeah, that one.
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Um and we had classes running at that time, and it was a case of we can't let these students down, we can't let them wait, we can't wait this thing out, we've got to carry on.
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And we'd been wanting a way to actually go online for a while, but it had to be the right way.
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And what it did was it actually gave us the impetus and the push to take the whole course online.
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So we had several student classes at different points through the course, and we managed to get them all finished within that year.
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We I think we lost about six weeks whilst we transitioned everything online.
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Did a heck of a lot of recording of information, but all the classes, they're all live.
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In my mind, it's just like you drive into a venue and you're sitting down together in a classroom.
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We sit together, you know, everybody congregates to wherever their terminal is, and we sit down together and we have live live training.
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And that was the important thing.
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It had to be live.
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I didn't want people just hold them mostly in in the weekends to make it easier for people.
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Most of us are transitioning from some other job, but yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I think that's changing.
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I think the whole thing, people's attention spans are shorter.
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People time people are more time poor now, and so so they're wanting this information in a slightly different way.
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And I think that's something that we've got to start addressing and looking at.
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We don't do the free weekend anymore, but we do deliver the free module one, and we do it by way of a two-hour webinar to see what people's interested is rather than a two-day free weekend.
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That was I I trained at Hypnosis Motivation Institute, which has been going for over 50 years in California, and that was the idea at distance.
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Their first month of classes, there were four, that you could take just to see if you liked it, see how you feel.
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You have to pass the test, and we'll take you if you want to come.
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But you know, you you got to do all of that by the second week of okay, this is what I'm doing.
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Because I had taken it to add to coaching, a health coach.
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Okay.
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Because I come from a medical background, so it made sense to me.
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And that was just another thing I'd sort of sort of wanted to know more about most of my life, but always assumed it would be really expensive to fund because everybody I saw who was a hebotist was one of these people in clerks on stage.
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I've never met uh a clinical hemitus.
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I knew it was used that way, but I'd never come across anybody.
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I'm sorry, I had to edit the story.
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So once once you established yourself, yourself sort of online business, yeah, how did how does it develop?
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Did it develop?
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Well, again, out of that incident in 2020, what we also looked at and saw was that the continuation of training after the training course itself needed to be addressed as well.
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Sometimes with more specialist masterclasses like Les has just taken a two-day masterclass for us through Solutions for Therapists.
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And we offer our supervision, which so it might be a one-hour supervision evening, or it might be a two-day masterclass working with children with Les or an EFT training course, different ones running at different times.
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It's all about that can continuity though, isn't it?
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And that support that you're not just having to attend Mark and Sue's course, and then it's a case of bye Fagner.
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You know, so it encourages students to communicate with with other students like me, encourages them to talk to Mark, to everybody, really, and having these supervisions and these CPD and masterclasses really sort of solidifies you know that that continuity and and because you you're still learning, aren't you?
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I was on a course last end.
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Yeah.
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It it's um it's a lonely job as a therapist if you don't have other sort of groups or touch points, if you like, or or you know, you don't surround yourself with with people.
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I I think it's a a tricky uh occupation to be in and stay stay three, if you like, if you're just working purely on your own.
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It is, and and also having having that support is really good, isn't it?
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So you can if you have any issues or you're stuck with something, because we can't remember everything, can we?
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And if you go on some of these groups on social media, then you get you get trashed if you ask silly questions.
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But to me, I always think there isn't such a thing as a silly question because sometimes you can have a block and think, I don't know what to do with this client, or I'm not sure if it's a if it's the right thing.
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Whereas having a community where you can go and ask a question, it just it just solidifies that support.
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Yeah, there is support, yeah, definitely.
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Without getting without feeling embarrassed about asking the question.
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Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Definitely.
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But you've got it, you've done it with a twist now, haven't you, with with your art?
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So explain to us um what you're doing.
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Yeah, so so when I left school, I wanted to be a photographer, and I wanted to be a photographer, if I'm deep down and honest about it, because I couldn't draw and I couldn't pick, couldn't do any of that kind of artist stuff.
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So you wanted to be a visual artist of some kind.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So when the careers teacher said, What do you want to do?
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I said, I want to be a photographer because I thought, well, that's the nearest I can get, and I can take a picture.
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Surely it's just like you just point the camera.
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And I learned how over to later there's a bit more to it than that.
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So for 20 years I was a photographer and I loved that job.
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I I really did enjoy doing it.
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We built a wonderful business, a different business doing we were travelling, we were sort of shoots in in wonderful, amazing places, and then I sort of got more involved with hypnotherapy, and that sort of started to come in as well.
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And then we moved out here to Portugal when Sue's mum died.
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We sort of decided we'd have a bit of a life change, and we'd already been doing the therapy, and it was a case of well, we'll continue the therapy.
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And then again, just down to that event that happened, it sort of gets you thinking that sort of I think as you get older as well, you sort of start to think, well, have I got things here that I really should be doing.
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Is there stuff undone?
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Is there stuff undone?
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And it's you know, we t we teach people, don't we, that if one person can do something, anybody can learn how to do it.
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And that's been my favourite thing.
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Because I didn't leave school with a great deal.
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So uh other than that desire to be a photographer.
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So it was a case of I've followed that and that made perfect sense to me the first time I heard it, and I thought, yeah, and then in the last few years I've just kept thinking I should be doing what I really wanted to do.
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And now I know I know the background, I know how people think creative-wise, and uh and so it's all that listening to that inner critic that just you know talks you down, and it's uh and I've sort of been able to blend the whole thing.
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Do you find that that some of your clients are also artists?
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It seems to draw things.
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I remember having a conversation uh a few months ago, about six months ago, with a client as I was starting to pull all the workshop things together that I'm I'm formulating with with the Mark Wilson studio.
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The lady had said in her interests that she was interested in art, and I sort of had been building in things like inductions for artists, thinking through what they might be painting the numbers on a canvas and using it, you know, that kind of induction technique, and and then the control room, talking to her about things that she could adjust, and and and I thought she really likes her art, maybe she could be adjusting all these things with a palette and various other things.
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Yeah.
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And uh, you know, so it yeah, it does I think it just through conversation sometimes.
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It might just be a snippet that's said, or I'll pick up on something, or they'll pick up on something that I've said, and we might talk about this as a you know as a conversation piece.
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So it does tend to sort of attract the right kind of people.
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I think you do that though, don't you?
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Yeah, you know you attract the people that it's also why I think you don't really meet many ametors who are sort of these are my people, you can't see them.
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It's because we all know it's different structure of folks, it's fine.
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Yeah, that's what it's all about, isn't it?
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It's about people.
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If you stand in front of the right person, I think part of the job's already been done.
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I think I think that's why it's really important.
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I don't know whether Denise does it.
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I don't think I've ever asked you, Denise, if you do a free consultation.
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Do you do a free consultation?
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I have done a few, but not usually.
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Usually most people are referred by somebody.
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Not necessarily a client, but a few doctors refer to me, which is very helpful.
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Pre pre-screen, as it were.
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Right.
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And I think the the problem with advertising that you do a free consultation would be that every single person would want a free consultation.
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But I do.
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I offer they get they get I talk to them, but I don't I don't understand actually or anything.
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I do.
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I offer every single client a free consultation.
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It might only it may only be half an hour, it could be online or it could be in person.
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Are you saying consultation or free hypnosis?
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No, free consultation, not oh yeah, no, everyone gets a consultation, they can't get to me unless they have one.
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So they do live with a little a little a little something, but not something that you know as a standalone thing, you know, it's gonna change the world, sort of, sort of thing.
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It's just just to plant a few sort of seeds in the in the mind that you they'll think, oh I'm definitely coming back, you know.
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People that join my mailing list because I haven't changed it in so long.
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Receive a product on sleep, something written by a friend of mine who's a sleep doctor, he's a psychiatrist who's specialised in sleep.
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Yeah, that's really and I'm trying to change it up as an age.
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I think it's to me, it it was part of my training, but to me, I think it's important for me, especially for children, the sort of children that I'm getting through, especially at the moment, because it gives them an opportunity to come and see me.
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Now they can come here, but it gives me an opportunity that I can see them, that I can I like them and they like me.
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Because with children, if they don't like you, they will just shut down, as you know, they will just shut down straight away.
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So I'm I'm gonna keep I'll I'm gonna keep mine in consultation.
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Yeah.
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I I I do the same.
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I think the the best part about it, and I think you're really saying this probably in what you're saying already, Liz, is that it's that rapport element and it takes away any of the you you get the sort of initial nerves for want of a better because there is that sort of consultation and you get those out of the way during that initial consultation.
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So that then means when if they come back, and they usually do from it, but if they if if if they come back and you booked in for sessions, then you straight into it and then you've got that information as well.
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I think it I think it's from the training that I've done, I think it's helpful for the therapist from a point of view that it gives you a little bit of thinking time.
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Don't overthink it, it gives you a little bit of thinking time and space, and I think it's good for the for the client as well.
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I think it gives the client, and I'm uh it it's quite surprising.
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The number of times I'll come for one thing and then kind of say, Oh, you do that?
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What is the biggest problem in your life right now?
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Because we want to go for that one.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, it's I I think I'm I mean I'm quite I'm quite comfortable keep using it, especially with children, and I think with parents as well, because unfortunately, and we've said this time and time again, Denise, and I'm I'm sure I've said it to Mark a few times, that unfortunately we're usually the last resort still.
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By the time they come to us, they've already been to see different therapists, the parents have met different therapists, the child's met different therapists.
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So, to me, I feel very, very comfortable giving a free consultation because then I can reassure parents this is what you're gonna get.
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And it it does work.
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But it's also why we need podcasts and radio shows, and obviously get people to get ahead of this, wait until everything else has completely emptied the shelf.
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Oh, hypnosis, yeah, I'll try that.
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It's true, and and you you're a retired doctor, Denise, and you've actually said, haven't you, that you wish that hypnosis was available.
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Well, more than that, both the British and the American academies of of medicine said that it should be taught in medical school, and still it is even alluded to most places.
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It's it's such a shame though, isn't it?
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But if we keep waving our flags and banging our drums, eventually it'll come back 200 years, maybe it will have happen by that.
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For the people who do find us, it works and we made them happy anyway.
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Yeah, yeah, that's right.
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Yeah, can I ask you, Mark, about the the painting, about finding is it the inner critic and imposter syndrome?
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How do you use it?
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So there's there's different elements.
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It was looking at that sort of people uh the time po the attentions here, there, and everywhere.
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So rather than doing uh a couple of days training course on it, I thought, right, what can I do in three hours?
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Uh so I thought we should make it difficult for myself.
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So three hours, I've got somebody's attention for three hours, and it's partly uh one or two creative exercises, but also a guided visualization.
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I I haven't called it hypnosis.
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Okay.
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Um and that that's a deliberate conscious choice because I think there's a little bit of still there's that little bit of scepticism about it.
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So if I call it a guided visualization, because of YouTube, people are more aware of that these days.
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So it's the same thing.
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It's focused attention at the end of the day, but you know, and and so about 10 minutes after a couple of little exercises and then also some journaling as well.
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So if you if you get people to really sort of focus their attention on the thing and think about where that inner critic came from, is it a fact or is it a belief, this thing that's holding you back?
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And nine times out of ten, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, it's a belief.
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And then ninety-eight times out of that ninety-nine, it's actually not even your belief in the first place.
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Right.
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Somebody else something somebody said to you on the playground 50 years ago.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, exactly.
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That's it.
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And when you get I get people coming into the workshop and the they say, I'm not, I'm not creative, I say, okay, that's fine.
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I know, you know, whether you do baking or whether you do sewing or quilting or knitting or painting, whatever it is, writing, or that we're all creative, and then you sort of go through the process, and then I also set a week of sort of little exercises to do afterwards as well, after the workshop.
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And the feedback is great.
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Yeah, yeah.
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People realising that they are creative.
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Uh the other thing that people seem I I attended a lot of webinars with artists before I started to really pull this together.
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And the other big thing that that I find really uh sad in a way is people a lot of people want permission to be able to do something.
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And you don't need permission.
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So do it.
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Yeah, you're you're a grown-up, you can make that choice yourself, give yourself permission.
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And so part of the guided visualization that I do is about them giving themselves permission and realizing that they can turn this creativity up and get curious and and play.
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And that's really what it's all about.
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That's what I do.
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But as adults, we don't do we don't give ourselves permission at all, do we?
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We just carry on and on and on.
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And I I want to learn to to play the piano.
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I had lessons at school and I never continued them.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:26.240
So I would like to learn the piano, and I think I'll do it eventually.
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:32.640
I think it'd go mad if I brought another piece of furniture in the into this house, but um I'd like to do it again.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.759
I'd like to Can you sneak on into your new office?
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:37.839
I could actually.
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:46.160
I could you can get those keyboards and you can headphones into them, and you can use an iPad to teach and learn.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.279
Go for it.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:49.440
I've got one in the loft.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:55.200
I've got a big, you know, one it comes with a stand, but I've got one of those in the loft.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.400
I'll have to have to dig it out and uh what are you waiting for?
00:19:58.480 --> 00:19:59.680
I think you can do it.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.160
Don't think my fingers are long enough.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:03.839
There we go.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:06.480
That's is that a fact or is that a belief?
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:07.920
That's a fact, yeah.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.720
That is a fact.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.440
No, I you see, I think you've been told that I think that's purely.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.759
I think some people are told I have watched four-year-olds play full-size pianos.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:16.480
Yeah.
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.480
They don't have a full-size hand.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.799
I just I just think it's it's amazing.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:26.400
To be able to play a musical instrument to me is just amazing.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.000
Absolutely amazing.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:40.079
A friend of mine can play umpteen different musical instruments, and I said to her, Well, how you've gone from the guitar to you know a French horn and whatever.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:43.039
And she said, once you the bass is there.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:43.519
Yeah.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.519
So I think, right, go on then.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.119
What's this bass anyway?
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:47.599
You never know.
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.319
It's not something you're born with, is it?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:58.400
It's something that you just trigger and the curiosity takes over, and yeah, and you go, you go with it.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:03.119
But being being creative, it like you said, it's that inner critic, isn't it?
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.319
That I'm not creative.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:09.680
I've said this to Mark so many times, I'm not creative, I'm not creative.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:18.160
But over the last few weekends, I've actually been looking at what I've done and what I do with the kids and and the stories that I do with the kids and everything.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.079
And I think I suppose I have a couple of creative bones in my body somewhere.
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.440
So oh god.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.160
See, it's gonna be a long job, isn't it?
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.160
But at least you're starting to admit it.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.039
Yeah.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.319
So that's one of your is that one of your paintings behind you?
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.839
Is that a horse?
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:44.640
It's whatever the I I like that looks to be, it looks like a horse going off pointing that way.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:46.319
Yeah, thank you.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.519
It this is what I love about abstract pieces.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.039
I I because I with a camera I can photograph realism.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.759
Yeah, I'll be able to paint or draw.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.920
You see, uh that's a again a belief I've got to do it.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.680
As well as the camera can look at
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.440
As well, I can take a picture.
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.799
I want to do something different, and how I can make it different.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.119
I love abstract and I love the fact that people see different things in it.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:19.359
That's when so when you come to do it, when you've got your blank canvas in front of you, and you've got your colours and you've got your equipment.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:20.720
What do you think of?
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:25.039
What is it whatever springs to mind goes down on that canvas?
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.519
I what I do is I actually I tune into how I'm feeling.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.079
Yeah.
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:36.400
So I use the basis of that guided visualization that I'm teaching to the people that come through the workshop.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:44.640
And I I go into my own sort of inner self, if you like, and and go to my control room.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:50.000
So do you do art teaching or do you is this part of a hypnosis?
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.319
I suppose there's an element of both in it.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.799
I'm not I'm not teaching art as such.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:23:09.839
Why because a lot of the art workshops that I've seen, a lot of the time, you'll have somebody stood in front of you that says, Right, today we're gonna paint this picture of this sea with a boat on it and a harbour.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:13.759
And this is mine that I've whose vision is it anyway?
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:15.279
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:24.079
And and then I think that freaks several of the students out because they're looking and thinking, well, I could never do one as good as that.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.480
Yeah.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:30.079
But it generates that comparison, comparisonitis, as I call it.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:34.240
And I've turned off from so many workshops because of that.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:49.920
I think what I'd what I'd like to think is that the workshops and the process that I do would give somebody the confidence to believe that they can create their own RPs, that they can get over that hurdle of not producing something.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:50.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.519
Um, you know, because they don't feel they can.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:00.400
I want them to feel at the end of the workshop that wow, they surprised themselves and they're now gonna go off.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:05.599
And it's so surprising how early in life you're told you can't do something, you can't do that.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:15.440
When you tell them teachers are telling primary school, you know, five and six-year-olds, you have to be a good painter and then we'll give you a book that you can put your paintings in.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.200
Yeah, you know, that's yeah.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:23.119
Do you have names, Jeff names for your paintings or that seems to be the sort of thing in art?
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.240
Uh I some sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.480
Sometimes he just wants to keep it a mystery.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.200
I've I've also sometimes I'll just give it a number.
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.880
So yeah, if nothing comes to mind.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:42.079
But then other times you'll be doing one and and then you've got the name there already.
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.319
So yeah, it part of it I think depends on what's sort of inspired.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:54.559
Because I love colour, because I've got a slight issue with colour, like a red, green colour, uh like select.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:54.880
Yeah.
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:55.359
Yeah.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:08.319
But it's a superpower because what it means is that instead of worrying about whether I'm getting the right green or whether is that green or is it brown, I I'll go, you know what?
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:09.519
It'll be whatever it is.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.119
It's whatever it is.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.279
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.559
That's just it's just I'm I'm coming on your course anyway, aren't I?
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.480
So that's just so good, yeah.
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.319
So July the 4th, yeah.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.839
Yeah, 4th of July.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.160
Yeah.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.240
Well, you'll you'll be out partying, Denise.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:28.880
We'll be we'll be doing an art class.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:31.680
That's it.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.400
Yeah.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.480
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.000
So tell me about the course.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.119
What what sorts of things are we we're gonna be doing on the course?
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:39.599
Right.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.920
So um paints and things.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:48.720
Um well I'm gonna I've got um a materials list, but it's as brief as anything because again, that's the thing.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:57.200
I I I want people not to do exactly what I do, but to realise that we've all got stuff in the cupboard.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:25:59.599
Colouring pencils.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.240
If you like colouring pencils, then that's your thing.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:07.680
Or if you like felt it, you know, that that was the favourite Christmas present, was a colouring book and at some point.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:10.720
When when I was a kid.
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.200
So and if you got paint, fine.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.480
You know, I don't use watercolor or oils myself.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.839
Uh I use a little bit of watercolor, but I don't use certainly don't use oils.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.599
I use acrylics mostly.
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.559
So, you know, just have whatever you've got.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:26.319
You could collage even.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.079
I've had people actually in the class before and they've written something.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.559
And I I I got a message the other week from from a student who'd done the course.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:45.359
Came via my wife, Sue, she booked into somebody who said that following the course, following that three-hour workshop, they'd written a story every day for four days.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:45.759
Wow.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:51.039
A new story released something, and that's that's all we think.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:52.640
That's the purpose of art.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:53.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:58.799
And it and it and it certainly it does serve a purpose for for different things, doesn't it?
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:09.680
Like like you said, you you're in a critic, you're imposter syndrome, but you can also create different things like build confidence, self-esteem.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.000
I think it I think it's just fantastic for for mental health overall.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:21.519
You know, when I'm stood at my easel, or when I'm stood painting away, I am not thinking about anything else.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.680
Um and some of the time I'm not even thinking about what I'm doing.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.000
I want to get into that zone.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:37.519
You remember you remember a little while ago when we were kids and we used to go into playgroup or into nursery and we could paint.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.519
And we could just do it.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:46.400
And we didn't ask what colours, we didn't ask what paint, we didn't ask what picture we had to do, we just did what we did.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:47.680
Just what whatever it was.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.319
Yeah, that's that's the zone I want to get into every time I've stood there.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:53.279
Brilliant.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:54.799
Yeah, brilliant.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:02.240
So if I can get people to do something like that in whatever it doesn't have to be painting, as I say, it could be anything.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.599
It could be baking, it could be whatever you want to do.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:09.440
You're being creative and you just be very creative decorating cakes.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:09.680
Yeah.
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.359
What do you think the next part of your evolution will be?
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.640
Is there something that you you haven't done yet that you think you want to?
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.240
I've got a few things.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:39.759
I've got something that I would love to do, and that is to pull all the things like inner child and and the inner critic, and pull all that together into maybe something that would run over maybe two or three months, maybe every fortnight.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.079
And it'll be like a little programme that would run.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:44.319
That that that's probably the next thing.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:54.640
But bringing in things like submodalities is a is a really good part of the visualization that I do is to get people in touch with how they're feeling.
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.759
Because that's the strong the strongest emotion.
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:03.359
It's whatever you're feeling will determine what colour you might do, what marks you might make.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:03.759
Yeah.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.039
You know, I'm referring this back to painting again because that that's that's my thing.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:08.400
That's your meaning, yeah.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:16.880
Yeah, but if if we can get in in touch with that the feeling, we can then put that onto onto the paper or put that onto the canvas.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.960
And then that hopefully then when people are looking at it.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.920
I say to people, you don't have to understand abstract to know whether you like it or you don't.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:26.160
Yeah.
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.440
Do you like the colours?
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.960
Or do you like the marks in it, or do you like the composition?
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.839
Um are you trying desperately to see the same thing that's got the label next to it?
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:37.440
It shouldn't have labels.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.839
That's that's it.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.279
Yeah, you know, you you you've said you've you've seen it as a horse.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:51.200
I've got I've got one that I I've done before that somebody's seen a horse in it, somebody's seen a sailboat from the same picture.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.559
It's like these two extremes, so that's brilliant, you know.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.079
They're both right.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.680
You know, like you said, it's whatever you see, isn't it?
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:02.240
And then how and how you see it.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.640
Have you have you ever done anything like this, Denise?
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:09.039
Have you ever brought your artistic flow to my work rooms?
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:10.160
No, I have not.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.440
But I work online almost exclusively now.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.160
If I were seeing children, I certainly would.
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:21.279
But most adults tell me what it is that they need to talk about, and that's what we talk about.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:25.359
Sometimes they change their mind midway through the first conversation.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.039
Oh, it works for that too.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.839
I've got this problem.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:28.880
Yeah.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:42.480
But you can you can see how painting can help with change, especially like you said, with the submodalities, because we see things and we feel things, but we we can give it a colour, can't we?
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.119
We can give it a shape, we can give it whatever.
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:47.440
And then you can also change it.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.079
Yeah.
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.400
So if if it if that little black cloud that's following you along, yeah.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:07.519
So we we could we could we could change it as well, which is uh I think it's for me personally one of the most powerful methodologies or approaches that we can use in hypnosis, and and it works so good with kids because kids are very visual.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.759
So, yes, I would get them to paint or draw or something like that, yeah.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.000
You see, that that's that's the creativity.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:24.480
I've seen what you've you've it's like you mentioned, you know, the the workshops that you do, Leslie, and children coming into your space and doing all these creative things.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.200
Do you use things like metaphor, Denise, in in the in your therapy room?
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:29.920
Somewhat.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:34.079
You see, I I think that itself, I think it is very creative.
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:44.400
That that is one of the things that I struggled with, right, at the very beginning, because when I was when I started my training, I was actually I I obviously much closer to being a photographer at that point.
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:44.799
Yeah.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:56.480
And I could I could photograph a wedding and create a book from that wedding that would tell a story, but I couldn't put into words a story at that point.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:05.759
Because like you said, when you're taking photographs, it's what it's it's actually what you can see, and everybody else can see the same, can't they?
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.680
And it's it's fact, isn't it?
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.279
They don't necessarily hear the same backstory.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:21.920
No, that can and a lot of that is going to be changed because it was everything else before them their lives they've seen is going to colour what you're seeing.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:30.079
Yeah, but it's but with with art, you can create, like you say, anything you want so a child can.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:30.640
Yeah.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:44.640
And I remember, I remember my children, and I remember my grandchildren as well bringing home their paintings from school, and you would look at them and you'd go, but it's abstracts art now, isn't it?
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:50.960
You know, it's uh I've kept I've kept them all, I've kept all the the kids and I've kept the the grandkids as well.
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.440
Yeah.
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:56.240
You know, where they've just gone like this with with paintbrushes, but that's what they did.
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:59.759
They had no other idea of what to do, did they?
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:00.400
No.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.960
They were going with they weren't doing it because it was visual.
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:12.880
I I've got a a painting that our granddaughter's done that I've used on the on the cover of the Inner Child workbook that I've created.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:20.880
And she'd done this picture, and I I was looking at it before I thought, I'm gonna ask her if I can use this, because she brought it through for us and we put it up on the fridge.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.920
Soon she brought you.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:38.079
And uh and and I got this out of the the other week, and I'm looking at them and and I thought, well, she hasn't she's not picked that those two colours and put them next to each other because they're the opposites on the colour wheel, because she didn't know that when she did it.
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.599
She's done it because it's like I'm I love that red.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:47.519
I'm gonna splash that red around and then that green looks fantastic, and I'm gonna put it here.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:58.240
And so she was going by what made her feel good, and that's the thing that I just want to be in that zone whenever I'm doing things.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:33:59.839
Get back to being like a child.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:04.640
So we've we've used that on the inner child uh cover of the workbook.
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:05.759
She's over the moon.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.519
Oh, bet she is, bet she is.
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:11.840
But going out, yeah, yeah, she's 10 now.
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.280
Uh and her artwork is is being displayed to the world.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.119
Oh, I know, I don't know.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:32.559
I don't think she quite grasped the thing of it, but going back to what you said about different colours meaning different things to other people, and going back to what you said about there that there are tools, aren't they?
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.880
And for an artist, they're their tools.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:46.320
Like we would use hypnosis, we would use a different modality, like some modalities or future pacing or something, whereas an artist would use the colours and the shapes, wouldn't they?
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.039
Yeah, and the way the brushes go onto the canvas.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.679
You see, I'm ready, I'm ready for this course now.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:52.559
I know.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:55.280
I can't wait.
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.159
How do you publicize your courses?
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:02.079
Where do people find you?
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.800
Um obviously through this, they will see your your website.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.639
It's it's all generally been through social media.
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:21.039
We've actually just in this last couple of weeks been talking to a gallery in Tavera because I joined their mailing list, and then they found me and joined my mailing list.
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.280
So I thought, well, this is getting interesting.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:31.679
And then I sent out one of the workshop emails, and then I got an email back saying I would love to do this.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.440
But I can't do it at the moment.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.519
However, we have gallery space.
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.800
Please come and visit us, and we'd love to talk to you about it.
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.880
And so it's very nice.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.760
That's how it's going about at the moment.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:54.239
And I think some it's it's a little bit easier, I think, sometimes to promote this than then often is to promote hypnotherapy directly.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.880
Yeah, yeah, you've got two things that you can use.
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:05.760
If they're not interested in the hypnosis, bring them over to the artist's side, you know.
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:07.519
Yeah, definitely.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:16.480
It's like what you you would do with anything else, you know, like any other different approach that we could use, like EFT or something, if if they don't want the hypnosis.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:19.440
Give them a canvas and some paints.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.719
Do you do you see people other than uh with blocks in their artwork?
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:39.599
Or do you see people I think yeah, I see a lot of people uh obviously from the creative side of things, but also yeah, I s I see uh a number of clients.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:42.960
I don't I don't do a full clinic, if you like, anymore.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:51.840
Um but I I deal I do still want to see one or two clients, and so I've I've just been seeing a lady this last few weeks for weight management.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.159
A couple of weeks before that, I saw somebody for smoking and some someone else for anxiety.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:00.000
So it's just sort of a a trickle-through because there's so many other things.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:10.159
I've got I think the most important thing is looking after the students that we've got, you know, because they're putting their faith and trust in us as a as a as a training school as well.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:12.800
So um, but I like to see one or two clients.
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:17.519
I don't want to be that trainer that teaches and doesn't do anything at all.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:25.199
I think it's important to to still have you know the clients that still keeps you keeps you working.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:26.880
Yeah, keeps you doing things.
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:27.840
Keeps you honest.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.519
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:52.079
And so some because it's those real life situations as well that help you so much in the classroom when you when you're talking to students and you can share things that you know sometimes things don't quite go to plan, or or there's the situations where it really does go to plan, and you can say, right, well, look, do have a go at this, I've done this this week, or yeah, you know, uh with this client.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:53.519
What and what about Sue?
00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:00.559
Because Mark's wife, Sue, is also a hypnotherapist, but Sue does Reiki, she does reflexology.
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.280
Recology, she does uh she does foot foot reflexology and facial reflexology as well.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.800
Not not at the same time, uh obviously.
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:20.639
Uh it would be two different sessions, but she does those and she does a little bit of a little bit of massage, but mostly it's the Reiki, the reflexology.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.000
Are people seeing her for similar problems?
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:25.599
Uh yeah, very often.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.400
And and sometimes that's the crossover.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.719
Uh, because we share uh I I usually see most people online.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:42.559
I certainly always do an initial consultation online, but we do have a physical room over in Tavera that we that we can both access.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:43.920
We can both use it.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:53.039
And so there's my information's in there, Sue's information's in there, and it's in the it's in a hair salon, it's a it's a room behind the hair cell.
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:54.960
So uh that works very, very well.
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:57.599
Have you got Sue onto the canvas, Susia?
00:38:58.239 --> 00:38:59.519
No, not yet.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.519
But you're a little secret if it helps to push Sue a little bit with this.
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:14.639
She she's she's gonna do the inner child workshop that we're doing, and she's gonna do that as as a as a student, but she wants to write.
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:20.159
Oh and there is a block, there's something holding her back from writing, and I think it's down to that.
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:25.760
It's not permission, although it would help if she gave herself permission to do it, but I don't think that's the thing.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.719
I think it's the that perfectionism thing.
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:29.039
Yeah.
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.079
That she wants to do it.
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:35.360
Or the memory from school when you know you're you're slanting the letters the wrong way.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:36.159
Yes.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:44.719
Although, you know, those those things that sort of just because it's either usually perfectionism or per permission.
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:45.119
Yeah.
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.440
Um it's uh the the the common ones.
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.280
So uh oh well, we'll have to see where we've got thank you, Mark.
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:56.559
Yeah, well thank thank you for coming on.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.480
It's it's been very nice to meet you.
00:39:58.559 --> 00:39:59.760
Maybe I'll see you more to go.
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.840
Yeah, we would meet you two of these.
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:05.119
Yeah, yeah, give us a shout if you're if you're over this way.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.480
Yeah, all right.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:07.679
Thanks, Mark.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:08.239
Bye-bye.
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:09.840
All right, lovely to meet you.
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:10.480
See you soon.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.119
Bye-bye.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:11.679
Bye-bye.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.519
We hope you've enjoyed listening.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:22.880
Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis and it's for educational purposes only.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:30.559
So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.040
Welcome to Two Hypnotherapist Talking with me, Denise Bill and Mahia in Delaware, USA.
00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:07.839
And me, Larry Robert in St.
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.919
Helens, United Kingdom.
00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:18.719
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.
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I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children.
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And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist.
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We are two hypnotherapists talking.
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So let's get on with the episode.
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Welcome, Mark.
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It's lovely to see a creative mentor who's based in the Algarve in Portugal.
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Through Mark Wilson Studio, Mark helps creative silence that inner critic and move past the imposter syndrome that keeps so many of them stuck.
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Mark spent 20 years as a professional photographer before giving himself permission to paint.
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And he is co-founder with his lovely wife Sue of Evolve Minds Hypnosis Academy and Solutions for Therapists, where he trains hypnotherapists and therapists online across the UK, Europe, and beyond.
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Thank you very much.
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:25.359
It's always stunning, isn't it, when you hear the backstories for all hypnosis, you know.
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But everybody comes from a completely different angle.
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It's really fascinating.
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And we all think the same thing.
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Mark was actually my tutor when I trained, and he's now a really good friend along with his wife soon.
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And we cross paths quite a lot, don't we?
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Do absolutely.
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You have an academy yourself, your new wife?
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Yeah, I do, yeah.
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We've been doing training since 2014 with Evolved Minds Hypnosis Academy, and we do a 10-month, 10-module training course in hypnotherapy.
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:07.760
Excellent.
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:10.560
I really don't like to meet people that say you can do it in two weeks.
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They make me nervous.
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So do you that are they in person or is this long distance?
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Well, this is the thing.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.919
I uh there's this sort of little bit of fusion going on now.
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We we were face to face, and then that little incident happened in 2020.
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The COVID thingy, mm-hmm.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:29.199
Yeah, that one.
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Um and we had classes running at that time, and it was a case of we can't let these students down, we can't let them wait, we can't wait this thing out, we've got to carry on.
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And we'd been wanting a way to actually go online for a while, but it had to be the right way.
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And what it did was it actually gave us the impetus and the push to take the whole course online.
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So we had several student classes at different points through the course, and we managed to get them all finished within that year.
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We I think we lost about six weeks whilst we transitioned everything online.
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Did a heck of a lot of recording of information, but all the classes, they're all live.
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In my mind, it's just like you drive into a venue and you're sitting down together in a classroom.
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We sit together, you know, everybody congregates to wherever their terminal is, and we sit down together and we have live live training.
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And that was the important thing.
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It had to be live.
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I didn't want people just hold them mostly in in the weekends to make it easier for people.
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Most of us are transitioning from some other job, but yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I think that's changing.
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I think the whole thing, people's attention spans are shorter.
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People time people are more time poor now, and so so they're wanting this information in a slightly different way.
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And I think that's something that we've got to start addressing and looking at.
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We don't do the free weekend anymore, but we do deliver the free module one, and we do it by way of a two-hour webinar to see what people's interested is rather than a two-day free weekend.
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:19.040
That was I I trained at Hypnosis Motivation Institute, which has been going for over 50 years in California, and that was the idea at distance.
00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:26.319
Their first month of classes, there were four, that you could take just to see if you liked it, see how you feel.
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You have to pass the test, and we'll take you if you want to come.
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But you know, you you got to do all of that by the second week of okay, this is what I'm doing.
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Because I had taken it to add to coaching, a health coach.
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Okay.
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Because I come from a medical background, so it made sense to me.
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And that was just another thing I'd sort of sort of wanted to know more about most of my life, but always assumed it would be really expensive to fund because everybody I saw who was a hebotist was one of these people in clerks on stage.
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I've never met uh a clinical hemitus.
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I knew it was used that way, but I'd never come across anybody.
00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:06.560
I'm sorry, I had to edit the story.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:14.480
So once once you established yourself, yourself sort of online business, yeah, how did how does it develop?
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Did it develop?
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:28.959
Well, again, out of that incident in 2020, what we also looked at and saw was that the continuation of training after the training course itself needed to be addressed as well.
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:37.920
Sometimes with more specialist masterclasses like Les has just taken a two-day masterclass for us through Solutions for Therapists.
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And we offer our supervision, which so it might be a one-hour supervision evening, or it might be a two-day masterclass working with children with Les or an EFT training course, different ones running at different times.
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It's all about that can continuity though, isn't it?
00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:04.079
And that support that you're not just having to attend Mark and Sue's course, and then it's a case of bye Fagner.
00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:28.399
You know, so it encourages students to communicate with with other students like me, encourages them to talk to Mark, to everybody, really, and having these supervisions and these CPD and masterclasses really sort of solidifies you know that that continuity and and because you you're still learning, aren't you?
00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.079
I was on a course last end.
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Yeah.
00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:42.399
It it's um it's a lonely job as a therapist if you don't have other sort of groups or touch points, if you like, or or you know, you don't surround yourself with with people.
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I I think it's a a tricky uh occupation to be in and stay stay three, if you like, if you're just working purely on your own.
00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:56.480
It is, and and also having having that support is really good, isn't it?
00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:03.279
So you can if you have any issues or you're stuck with something, because we can't remember everything, can we?
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:10.639
And if you go on some of these groups on social media, then you get you get trashed if you ask silly questions.
00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:20.639
But to me, I always think there isn't such a thing as a silly question because sometimes you can have a block and think, I don't know what to do with this client, or I'm not sure if it's a if it's the right thing.
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Whereas having a community where you can go and ask a question, it just it just solidifies that support.
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Yeah, there is support, yeah, definitely.
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Without getting without feeling embarrassed about asking the question.
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Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Definitely.
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But you've got it, you've done it with a twist now, haven't you, with with your art?
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So explain to us um what you're doing.
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Yeah, so so when I left school, I wanted to be a photographer, and I wanted to be a photographer, if I'm deep down and honest about it, because I couldn't draw and I couldn't pick, couldn't do any of that kind of artist stuff.
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.920
So you wanted to be a visual artist of some kind.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:03.040
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.519
So when the careers teacher said, What do you want to do?
00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:10.319
I said, I want to be a photographer because I thought, well, that's the nearest I can get, and I can take a picture.
00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:12.879
Surely it's just like you just point the camera.
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.000
And I learned how over to later there's a bit more to it than that.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.319
So for 20 years I was a photographer and I loved that job.
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.319
I I really did enjoy doing it.
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We built a wonderful business, a different business doing we were travelling, we were sort of shoots in in wonderful, amazing places, and then I sort of got more involved with hypnotherapy, and that sort of started to come in as well.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.159
And then we moved out here to Portugal when Sue's mum died.
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We sort of decided we'd have a bit of a life change, and we'd already been doing the therapy, and it was a case of well, we'll continue the therapy.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:59.679
And then again, just down to that event that happened, it sort of gets you thinking that sort of I think as you get older as well, you sort of start to think, well, have I got things here that I really should be doing.
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.039
Is there stuff undone?
00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:02.720
Is there stuff undone?
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:09.840
And it's you know, we t we teach people, don't we, that if one person can do something, anybody can learn how to do it.
00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:11.519
And that's been my favourite thing.
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.000
Because I didn't leave school with a great deal.
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.519
So uh other than that desire to be a photographer.
00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:29.120
So it was a case of I've followed that and that made perfect sense to me the first time I heard it, and I thought, yeah, and then in the last few years I've just kept thinking I should be doing what I really wanted to do.
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:44.399
And now I know I know the background, I know how people think creative-wise, and uh and so it's all that listening to that inner critic that just you know talks you down, and it's uh and I've sort of been able to blend the whole thing.
00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:49.360
Do you find that that some of your clients are also artists?
00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:51.360
It seems to draw things.
00:09:52.879 --> 00:10:04.879
I remember having a conversation uh a few months ago, about six months ago, with a client as I was starting to pull all the workshop things together that I'm I'm formulating with with the Mark Wilson studio.
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:33.279
The lady had said in her interests that she was interested in art, and I sort of had been building in things like inductions for artists, thinking through what they might be painting the numbers on a canvas and using it, you know, that kind of induction technique, and and then the control room, talking to her about things that she could adjust, and and and I thought she really likes her art, maybe she could be adjusting all these things with a palette and various other things.
00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:33.759
Yeah.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:40.480
And uh, you know, so it yeah, it does I think it just through conversation sometimes.
00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:50.080
It might just be a snippet that's said, or I'll pick up on something, or they'll pick up on something that I've said, and we might talk about this as a you know as a conversation piece.
00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.759
So it does tend to sort of attract the right kind of people.
00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:55.200
I think you do that though, don't you?
00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:04.320
Yeah, you know you attract the people that it's also why I think you don't really meet many ametors who are sort of these are my people, you can't see them.
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:08.320
It's because we all know it's different structure of folks, it's fine.
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.720
Yeah, that's what it's all about, isn't it?
00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:11.679
It's about people.
00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.480
If you stand in front of the right person, I think part of the job's already been done.
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.519
I think I think that's why it's really important.
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:21.120
I don't know whether Denise does it.
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:24.960
I don't think I've ever asked you, Denise, if you do a free consultation.
00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:26.879
Do you do a free consultation?
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.279
I have done a few, but not usually.
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.360
Usually most people are referred by somebody.
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:38.000
Not necessarily a client, but a few doctors refer to me, which is very helpful.
00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:41.919
Pre pre-screen, as it were.
00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:42.559
Right.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:51.759
And I think the the problem with advertising that you do a free consultation would be that every single person would want a free consultation.
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:52.720
But I do.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:58.639
I offer they get they get I talk to them, but I don't I don't understand actually or anything.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:11:59.600
I do.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:04.159
I offer every single client a free consultation.
00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:09.919
It might only it may only be half an hour, it could be online or it could be in person.
00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:13.519
Are you saying consultation or free hypnosis?
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:18.799
No, free consultation, not oh yeah, no, everyone gets a consultation, they can't get to me unless they have one.
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:28.720
So they do live with a little a little a little something, but not something that you know as a standalone thing, you know, it's gonna change the world, sort of, sort of thing.
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:36.159
It's just just to plant a few sort of seeds in the in the mind that you they'll think, oh I'm definitely coming back, you know.
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.840
People that join my mailing list because I haven't changed it in so long.
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:47.440
Receive a product on sleep, something written by a friend of mine who's a sleep doctor, he's a psychiatrist who's specialised in sleep.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:50.799
Yeah, that's really and I'm trying to change it up as an age.
00:12:51.919 --> 00:13:07.120
I think it's to me, it it was part of my training, but to me, I think it's important for me, especially for children, the sort of children that I'm getting through, especially at the moment, because it gives them an opportunity to come and see me.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:15.039
Now they can come here, but it gives me an opportunity that I can see them, that I can I like them and they like me.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.960
Because with children, if they don't like you, they will just shut down, as you know, they will just shut down straight away.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.519
So I'm I'm gonna keep I'll I'm gonna keep mine in consultation.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:26.080
Yeah.
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.600
I I I do the same.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:47.120
I think the the best part about it, and I think you're really saying this probably in what you're saying already, Liz, is that it's that rapport element and it takes away any of the you you get the sort of initial nerves for want of a better because there is that sort of consultation and you get those out of the way during that initial consultation.
00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:59.600
So that then means when if they come back, and they usually do from it, but if they if if if they come back and you booked in for sessions, then you straight into it and then you've got that information as well.
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:08.639
I think it I think it's from the training that I've done, I think it's helpful for the therapist from a point of view that it gives you a little bit of thinking time.
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.799
Don't overthink it, it gives you a little bit of thinking time and space, and I think it's good for the for the client as well.
00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.120
I think it gives the client, and I'm uh it it's quite surprising.
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.120
The number of times I'll come for one thing and then kind of say, Oh, you do that?
00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.440
What is the biggest problem in your life right now?
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:27.120
Because we want to go for that one.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:47.120
Yeah, it's I I think I'm I mean I'm quite I'm quite comfortable keep using it, especially with children, and I think with parents as well, because unfortunately, and we've said this time and time again, Denise, and I'm I'm sure I've said it to Mark a few times, that unfortunately we're usually the last resort still.
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:56.159
By the time they come to us, they've already been to see different therapists, the parents have met different therapists, the child's met different therapists.
00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:04.960
So, to me, I feel very, very comfortable giving a free consultation because then I can reassure parents this is what you're gonna get.
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.559
And it it does work.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:16.320
But it's also why we need podcasts and radio shows, and obviously get people to get ahead of this, wait until everything else has completely emptied the shelf.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:18.960
Oh, hypnosis, yeah, I'll try that.
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:29.200
It's true, and and you you're a retired doctor, Denise, and you've actually said, haven't you, that you wish that hypnosis was available.
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:40.879
Well, more than that, both the British and the American academies of of medicine said that it should be taught in medical school, and still it is even alluded to most places.
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:42.960
It's it's such a shame though, isn't it?
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:49.759
But if we keep waving our flags and banging our drums, eventually it'll come back 200 years, maybe it will have happen by that.
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:55.519
For the people who do find us, it works and we made them happy anyway.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:56.960
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:05.679
Yeah, can I ask you, Mark, about the the painting, about finding is it the inner critic and imposter syndrome?
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:06.799
How do you use it?
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.600
So there's there's different elements.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:17.200
It was looking at that sort of people uh the time po the attentions here, there, and everywhere.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:23.600
So rather than doing uh a couple of days training course on it, I thought, right, what can I do in three hours?
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.879
Uh so I thought we should make it difficult for myself.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:37.039
So three hours, I've got somebody's attention for three hours, and it's partly uh one or two creative exercises, but also a guided visualization.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.200
I I haven't called it hypnosis.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:39.759
Okay.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:48.799
Um and that that's a deliberate conscious choice because I think there's a little bit of still there's that little bit of scepticism about it.
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:54.799
So if I call it a guided visualization, because of YouTube, people are more aware of that these days.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.039
So it's the same thing.
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:07.519
It's focused attention at the end of the day, but you know, and and so about 10 minutes after a couple of little exercises and then also some journaling as well.
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:22.480
So if you if you get people to really sort of focus their attention on the thing and think about where that inner critic came from, is it a fact or is it a belief, this thing that's holding you back?
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.200
And nine times out of ten, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, it's a belief.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.400
And then ninety-eight times out of that ninety-nine, it's actually not even your belief in the first place.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:32.880
Right.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.559
Somebody else something somebody said to you on the playground 50 years ago.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:36.960
Yeah.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:38.240
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:39.039
That's it.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:46.960
And when you get I get people coming into the workshop and the they say, I'm not, I'm not creative, I say, okay, that's fine.
00:17:47.279 --> 00:18:11.680
I know, you know, whether you do baking or whether you do sewing or quilting or knitting or painting, whatever it is, writing, or that we're all creative, and then you sort of go through the process, and then I also set a week of sort of little exercises to do afterwards as well, after the workshop.
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.240
And the feedback is great.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:15.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.319
People realising that they are creative.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:28.319
Uh the other thing that people seem I I attended a lot of webinars with artists before I started to really pull this together.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:38.000
And the other big thing that that I find really uh sad in a way is people a lot of people want permission to be able to do something.
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.759
And you don't need permission.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.000
So do it.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:47.519
Yeah, you're you're a grown-up, you can make that choice yourself, give yourself permission.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:19:02.000
And so part of the guided visualization that I do is about them giving themselves permission and realizing that they can turn this creativity up and get curious and and play.
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.839
And that's really what it's all about.
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:04.880
That's what I do.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.240
But as adults, we don't do we don't give ourselves permission at all, do we?
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.559
We just carry on and on and on.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.720
And I I want to learn to to play the piano.
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.960
I had lessons at school and I never continued them.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:26.240
So I would like to learn the piano, and I think I'll do it eventually.
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:32.640
I think it'd go mad if I brought another piece of furniture in the into this house, but um I'd like to do it again.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.759
I'd like to Can you sneak on into your new office?
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:37.839
I could actually.
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:46.160
I could you can get those keyboards and you can headphones into them, and you can use an iPad to teach and learn.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.279
Go for it.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:49.440
I've got one in the loft.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:55.200
I've got a big, you know, one it comes with a stand, but I've got one of those in the loft.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.400
I'll have to have to dig it out and uh what are you waiting for?
00:19:58.480 --> 00:19:59.680
I think you can do it.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.160
Don't think my fingers are long enough.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:03.839
There we go.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:06.480
That's is that a fact or is that a belief?
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:07.920
That's a fact, yeah.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.720
That is a fact.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.440
No, I you see, I think you've been told that I think that's purely.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.759
I think some people are told I have watched four-year-olds play full-size pianos.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:16.480
Yeah.
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.480
They don't have a full-size hand.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.799
I just I just think it's it's amazing.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:26.400
To be able to play a musical instrument to me is just amazing.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.000
Absolutely amazing.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:40.079
A friend of mine can play umpteen different musical instruments, and I said to her, Well, how you've gone from the guitar to you know a French horn and whatever.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:43.039
And she said, once you the bass is there.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:43.519
Yeah.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.519
So I think, right, go on then.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.119
What's this bass anyway?
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:47.599
You never know.
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.319
It's not something you're born with, is it?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:58.400
It's something that you just trigger and the curiosity takes over, and yeah, and you go, you go with it.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:03.119
But being being creative, it like you said, it's that inner critic, isn't it?
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.319
That I'm not creative.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:09.680
I've said this to Mark so many times, I'm not creative, I'm not creative.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:18.160
But over the last few weekends, I've actually been looking at what I've done and what I do with the kids and and the stories that I do with the kids and everything.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.079
And I think I suppose I have a couple of creative bones in my body somewhere.
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.440
So oh god.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.160
See, it's gonna be a long job, isn't it?
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.160
But at least you're starting to admit it.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.039
Yeah.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.319
So that's one of your is that one of your paintings behind you?
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.839
Is that a horse?
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:44.640
It's whatever the I I like that looks to be, it looks like a horse going off pointing that way.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:46.319
Yeah, thank you.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.519
It this is what I love about abstract pieces.
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.039
I I because I with a camera I can photograph realism.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.759
Yeah, I'll be able to paint or draw.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.920
You see, uh that's a again a belief I've got to do it.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.680
As well as the camera can look at
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.440
As well, I can take a picture.
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.799
I want to do something different, and how I can make it different.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.119
I love abstract and I love the fact that people see different things in it.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:19.359
That's when so when you come to do it, when you've got your blank canvas in front of you, and you've got your colours and you've got your equipment.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:20.720
What do you think of?
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:25.039
What is it whatever springs to mind goes down on that canvas?
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.519
I what I do is I actually I tune into how I'm feeling.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.079
Yeah.
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:36.400
So I use the basis of that guided visualization that I'm teaching to the people that come through the workshop.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:44.640
And I I go into my own sort of inner self, if you like, and and go to my control room.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:50.000
So do you do art teaching or do you is this part of a hypnosis?
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.319
I suppose there's an element of both in it.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.799
I'm not I'm not teaching art as such.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:23:09.839
Why because a lot of the art workshops that I've seen, a lot of the time, you'll have somebody stood in front of you that says, Right, today we're gonna paint this picture of this sea with a boat on it and a harbour.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:13.759
And this is mine that I've whose vision is it anyway?
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:15.279
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:24.079
And and then I think that freaks several of the students out because they're looking and thinking, well, I could never do one as good as that.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.480
Yeah.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:30.079
But it generates that comparison, comparisonitis, as I call it.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:34.240
And I've turned off from so many workshops because of that.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:49.920
I think what I'd what I'd like to think is that the workshops and the process that I do would give somebody the confidence to believe that they can create their own RPs, that they can get over that hurdle of not producing something.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:50.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.519
Um, you know, because they don't feel they can.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:00.400
I want them to feel at the end of the workshop that wow, they surprised themselves and they're now gonna go off.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:05.599
And it's so surprising how early in life you're told you can't do something, you can't do that.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:15.440
When you tell them teachers are telling primary school, you know, five and six-year-olds, you have to be a good painter and then we'll give you a book that you can put your paintings in.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.200
Yeah, you know, that's yeah.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:23.119
Do you have names, Jeff names for your paintings or that seems to be the sort of thing in art?
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.240
Uh I some sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.480
Sometimes he just wants to keep it a mystery.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.200
I've I've also sometimes I'll just give it a number.
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.880
So yeah, if nothing comes to mind.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:42.079
But then other times you'll be doing one and and then you've got the name there already.
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.319
So yeah, it part of it I think depends on what's sort of inspired.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:54.559
Because I love colour, because I've got a slight issue with colour, like a red, green colour, uh like select.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:54.880
Yeah.
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:55.359
Yeah.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:08.319
But it's a superpower because what it means is that instead of worrying about whether I'm getting the right green or whether is that green or is it brown, I I'll go, you know what?
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:09.519
It'll be whatever it is.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.119
It's whatever it is.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.279
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.559
That's just it's just I'm I'm coming on your course anyway, aren't I?
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.480
So that's just so good, yeah.
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.319
So July the 4th, yeah.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.839
Yeah, 4th of July.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.160
Yeah.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.240
Well, you'll you'll be out partying, Denise.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:28.880
We'll be we'll be doing an art class.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:31.680
That's it.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.400
Yeah.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.480
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.000
So tell me about the course.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.119
What what sorts of things are we we're gonna be doing on the course?
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:39.599
Right.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.920
So um paints and things.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:48.720
Um well I'm gonna I've got um a materials list, but it's as brief as anything because again, that's the thing.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:57.200
I I I want people not to do exactly what I do, but to realise that we've all got stuff in the cupboard.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:25:59.599
Colouring pencils.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.240
If you like colouring pencils, then that's your thing.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:07.680
Or if you like felt it, you know, that that was the favourite Christmas present, was a colouring book and at some point.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:10.720
When when I was a kid.
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.200
So and if you got paint, fine.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.480
You know, I don't use watercolor or oils myself.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.839
Uh I use a little bit of watercolor, but I don't use certainly don't use oils.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.599
I use acrylics mostly.
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.559
So, you know, just have whatever you've got.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:26.319
You could collage even.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.079
I've had people actually in the class before and they've written something.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.559
And I I I got a message the other week from from a student who'd done the course.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:45.359
Came via my wife, Sue, she booked into somebody who said that following the course, following that three-hour workshop, they'd written a story every day for four days.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:45.759
Wow.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:51.039
A new story released something, and that's that's all we think.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:52.640
That's the purpose of art.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:53.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:58.799
And it and it and it certainly it does serve a purpose for for different things, doesn't it?
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:09.680
Like like you said, you you're in a critic, you're imposter syndrome, but you can also create different things like build confidence, self-esteem.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.000
I think it I think it's just fantastic for for mental health overall.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:21.519
You know, when I'm stood at my easel, or when I'm stood painting away, I am not thinking about anything else.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.680
Um and some of the time I'm not even thinking about what I'm doing.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.000
I want to get into that zone.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:37.519
You remember you remember a little while ago when we were kids and we used to go into playgroup or into nursery and we could paint.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.519
And we could just do it.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:46.400
And we didn't ask what colours, we didn't ask what paint, we didn't ask what picture we had to do, we just did what we did.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:47.680
Just what whatever it was.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.319
Yeah, that's that's the zone I want to get into every time I've stood there.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:53.279
Brilliant.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:54.799
Yeah, brilliant.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:02.240
So if I can get people to do something like that in whatever it doesn't have to be painting, as I say, it could be anything.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.599
It could be baking, it could be whatever you want to do.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:09.440
You're being creative and you just be very creative decorating cakes.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:09.680
Yeah.
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.359
What do you think the next part of your evolution will be?
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.640
Is there something that you you haven't done yet that you think you want to?
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.240
I've got a few things.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:39.759
I've got something that I would love to do, and that is to pull all the things like inner child and and the inner critic, and pull all that together into maybe something that would run over maybe two or three months, maybe every fortnight.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.079
And it'll be like a little programme that would run.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:44.319
That that that's probably the next thing.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:54.640
But bringing in things like submodalities is a is a really good part of the visualization that I do is to get people in touch with how they're feeling.
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.759
Because that's the strong the strongest emotion.
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:03.359
It's whatever you're feeling will determine what colour you might do, what marks you might make.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:03.759
Yeah.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.039
You know, I'm referring this back to painting again because that that's that's my thing.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:08.400
That's your meaning, yeah.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:16.880
Yeah, but if if we can get in in touch with that the feeling, we can then put that onto onto the paper or put that onto the canvas.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.960
And then that hopefully then when people are looking at it.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.920
I say to people, you don't have to understand abstract to know whether you like it or you don't.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:26.160
Yeah.
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.440
Do you like the colours?
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.960
Or do you like the marks in it, or do you like the composition?
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.839
Um are you trying desperately to see the same thing that's got the label next to it?
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:37.440
It shouldn't have labels.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.839
That's that's it.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.279
Yeah, you know, you you you've said you've you've seen it as a horse.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:51.200
I've got I've got one that I I've done before that somebody's seen a horse in it, somebody's seen a sailboat from the same picture.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.559
It's like these two extremes, so that's brilliant, you know.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.079
They're both right.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.680
You know, like you said, it's whatever you see, isn't it?
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:02.240
And then how and how you see it.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.640
Have you have you ever done anything like this, Denise?
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:09.039
Have you ever brought your artistic flow to my work rooms?
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:10.160
No, I have not.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.440
But I work online almost exclusively now.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.160
If I were seeing children, I certainly would.
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:21.279
But most adults tell me what it is that they need to talk about, and that's what we talk about.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:25.359
Sometimes they change their mind midway through the first conversation.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.039
Oh, it works for that too.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.839
I've got this problem.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:28.880
Yeah.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:42.480
But you can you can see how painting can help with change, especially like you said, with the submodalities, because we see things and we feel things, but we we can give it a colour, can't we?
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.119
We can give it a shape, we can give it whatever.
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:47.440
And then you can also change it.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.079
Yeah.
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.400
So if if it if that little black cloud that's following you along, yeah.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:07.519
So we we could we could we could change it as well, which is uh I think it's for me personally one of the most powerful methodologies or approaches that we can use in hypnosis, and and it works so good with kids because kids are very visual.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.759
So, yes, I would get them to paint or draw or something like that, yeah.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.000
You see, that that's that's the creativity.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:24.480
I've seen what you've you've it's like you mentioned, you know, the the workshops that you do, Leslie, and children coming into your space and doing all these creative things.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.200
Do you use things like metaphor, Denise, in in the in your therapy room?
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:29.920
Somewhat.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:34.079
You see, I I think that itself, I think it is very creative.
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:44.400
That that is one of the things that I struggled with, right, at the very beginning, because when I was when I started my training, I was actually I I obviously much closer to being a photographer at that point.
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:44.799
Yeah.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:56.480
And I could I could photograph a wedding and create a book from that wedding that would tell a story, but I couldn't put into words a story at that point.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:05.759
Because like you said, when you're taking photographs, it's what it's it's actually what you can see, and everybody else can see the same, can't they?
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.680
And it's it's fact, isn't it?
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.279
They don't necessarily hear the same backstory.
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:21.920
No, that can and a lot of that is going to be changed because it was everything else before them their lives they've seen is going to colour what you're seeing.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:30.079
Yeah, but it's but with with art, you can create, like you say, anything you want so a child can.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:30.640
Yeah.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:44.640
And I remember, I remember my children, and I remember my grandchildren as well bringing home their paintings from school, and you would look at them and you'd go, but it's abstracts art now, isn't it?
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:50.960
You know, it's uh I've kept I've kept them all, I've kept all the the kids and I've kept the the grandkids as well.
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.440
Yeah.
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:56.240
You know, where they've just gone like this with with paintbrushes, but that's what they did.
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:59.759
They had no other idea of what to do, did they?
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:00.400
No.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:04.960
They were going with they weren't doing it because it was visual.
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:12.880
I I've got a a painting that our granddaughter's done that I've used on the on the cover of the Inner Child workbook that I've created.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:20.880
And she'd done this picture, and I I was looking at it before I thought, I'm gonna ask her if I can use this, because she brought it through for us and we put it up on the fridge.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.920
Soon she brought you.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:38.079
And uh and and I got this out of the the other week, and I'm looking at them and and I thought, well, she hasn't she's not picked that those two colours and put them next to each other because they're the opposites on the colour wheel, because she didn't know that when she did it.
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.599
She's done it because it's like I'm I love that red.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:47.519
I'm gonna splash that red around and then that green looks fantastic, and I'm gonna put it here.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:58.240
And so she was going by what made her feel good, and that's the thing that I just want to be in that zone whenever I'm doing things.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:33:59.839
Get back to being like a child.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:04.640
So we've we've used that on the inner child uh cover of the workbook.
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:05.759
She's over the moon.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.519
Oh, bet she is, bet she is.
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:11.840
But going out, yeah, yeah, she's 10 now.
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.280
Uh and her artwork is is being displayed to the world.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.119
Oh, I know, I don't know.
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:32.559
I don't think she quite grasped the thing of it, but going back to what you said about different colours meaning different things to other people, and going back to what you said about there that there are tools, aren't they?
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.880
And for an artist, they're their tools.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:46.320
Like we would use hypnosis, we would use a different modality, like some modalities or future pacing or something, whereas an artist would use the colours and the shapes, wouldn't they?
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.039
Yeah, and the way the brushes go onto the canvas.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.679
You see, I'm ready, I'm ready for this course now.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:52.559
I know.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:55.280
I can't wait.
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.159
How do you publicize your courses?
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:02.079
Where do people find you?
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.800
Um obviously through this, they will see your your website.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.639
It's it's all generally been through social media.
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:21.039
We've actually just in this last couple of weeks been talking to a gallery in Tavera because I joined their mailing list, and then they found me and joined my mailing list.
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.280
So I thought, well, this is getting interesting.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:31.679
And then I sent out one of the workshop emails, and then I got an email back saying I would love to do this.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.440
But I can't do it at the moment.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.519
However, we have gallery space.
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.800
Please come and visit us, and we'd love to talk to you about it.
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.880
And so it's very nice.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.760
That's how it's going about at the moment.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:54.239
And I think some it's it's a little bit easier, I think, sometimes to promote this than then often is to promote hypnotherapy directly.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.880
Yeah, yeah, you've got two things that you can use.
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:05.760
If they're not interested in the hypnosis, bring them over to the artist's side, you know.
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:07.519
Yeah, definitely.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:16.480
It's like what you you would do with anything else, you know, like any other different approach that we could use, like EFT or something, if if they don't want the hypnosis.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:19.440
Give them a canvas and some paints.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.719
Do you do you see people other than uh with blocks in their artwork?
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:39.599
Or do you see people I think yeah, I see a lot of people uh obviously from the creative side of things, but also yeah, I s I see uh a number of clients.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:42.960
I don't I don't do a full clinic, if you like, anymore.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:51.840
Um but I I deal I do still want to see one or two clients, and so I've I've just been seeing a lady this last few weeks for weight management.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.159
A couple of weeks before that, I saw somebody for smoking and some someone else for anxiety.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:00.000
So it's just sort of a a trickle-through because there's so many other things.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:10.159
I've got I think the most important thing is looking after the students that we've got, you know, because they're putting their faith and trust in us as a as a as a training school as well.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:12.800
So um, but I like to see one or two clients.
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:17.519
I don't want to be that trainer that teaches and doesn't do anything at all.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:25.199
I think it's important to to still have you know the clients that still keeps you keeps you working.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:26.880
Yeah, keeps you doing things.
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:27.840
Keeps you honest.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.519
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:52.079
And so some because it's those real life situations as well that help you so much in the classroom when you when you're talking to students and you can share things that you know sometimes things don't quite go to plan, or or there's the situations where it really does go to plan, and you can say, right, well, look, do have a go at this, I've done this this week, or yeah, you know, uh with this client.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:53.519
What and what about Sue?
00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:00.559
Because Mark's wife, Sue, is also a hypnotherapist, but Sue does Reiki, she does reflexology.
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.280
Recology, she does uh she does foot foot reflexology and facial reflexology as well.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.800
Not not at the same time, uh obviously.
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:20.639
Uh it would be two different sessions, but she does those and she does a little bit of a little bit of massage, but mostly it's the Reiki, the reflexology.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.000
Are people seeing her for similar problems?
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:25.599
Uh yeah, very often.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.400
And and sometimes that's the crossover.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.719
Uh, because we share uh I I usually see most people online.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:42.559
I certainly always do an initial consultation online, but we do have a physical room over in Tavera that we that we can both access.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:43.920
We can both use it.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:53.039
And so there's my information's in there, Sue's information's in there, and it's in the it's in a hair salon, it's a it's a room behind the hair cell.
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:54.960
So uh that works very, very well.
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:57.599
Have you got Sue onto the canvas, Susia?
00:38:58.239 --> 00:38:59.519
No, not yet.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.519
But you're a little secret if it helps to push Sue a little bit with this.
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:14.639
She she's she's gonna do the inner child workshop that we're doing, and she's gonna do that as as a as a student, but she wants to write.
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:20.159
Oh and there is a block, there's something holding her back from writing, and I think it's down to that.
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:25.760
It's not permission, although it would help if she gave herself permission to do it, but I don't think that's the thing.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.719
I think it's the that perfectionism thing.
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:29.039
Yeah.
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.079
That she wants to do it.
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:35.360
Or the memory from school when you know you're you're slanting the letters the wrong way.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:36.159
Yes.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:44.719
Although, you know, those those things that sort of just because it's either usually perfectionism or per permission.
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:45.119
Yeah.
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.440
Um it's uh the the the common ones.
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.280
So uh oh well, we'll have to see where we've got thank you, Mark.
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:56.559
Yeah, well thank thank you for coming on.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.480
It's it's been very nice to meet you.
00:39:58.559 --> 00:39:59.760
Maybe I'll see you more to go.
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.840
Yeah, we would meet you two of these.
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:05.119
Yeah, yeah, give us a shout if you're if you're over this way.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.480
Yeah, all right.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:07.679
Thanks, Mark.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:08.239
Bye-bye.
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:09.840
All right, lovely to meet you.
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:10.480
See you soon.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.119
Bye-bye.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:11.679
Bye-bye.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.519
We hope you've enjoyed listening.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:22.880
Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis and it's for educational purposes only.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:30.559
So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
