Kim Wall /// Part 1 /// 239

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Crocs clips just dropped in Happy Meal. Express yourself however
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range comprises toys only while stock slash. Fair ordering policy applies.
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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you
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are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and
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with me, as always, is a guy that carpools to
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work with Sasquatch. He is the captain.
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Well, if you're not running with Sasquatch, you are running
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from Sasquatch, my friend. It's good to be seen, and
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it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for
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telling a friend.
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Tonight we are drinking Lorelei Barrel Aged Extra Maple by
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the brilliant folks at Omnipolo Brewing in beautiful Stockholm, Sweden.
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Garage grade 4.5 bottle caps out of 5. This is
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an Imperial Porter and just like Trent Reznor said... It
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is as black as your soul, but very, very delicious.
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Taste of coffee, hazelnuts, and of course, maple syrup. And
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this bad boy was brought to us by these good folks.
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First up, we have Christy in Massachusetts.
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And a big shout out to Julia Gulia. From Hagerstown, Maryland.
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And how about a big southern cheers to Natalie in Roswell, Georgia.
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Cheers, mates. And a big we like you jib to
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Anthony in Brighton, Colorado.
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And here's a very long, long distance high five to
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Kate in Dubai. And last but not least, we have
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Amanda in McKinney, Texas. Thanks to everybody for helping us
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out with this week's show. If you want to help
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enough of the business.
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All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer.
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Let's talk some true crime.
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Thank you.
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This is True Crime Garage, and the following is by
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far not your typical missing persons case. For in this story,
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you will hear about a missing man, a missing woman,
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and a missing submarine. You will hear about the intense
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and heartbreaking search for all three. Then, the explanations and
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multiple versions of tragic accidents. You will hear the destruction
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of dreams. the tragic loss of life and relationships. You
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will hear the gruesome discoveries, the morbid details, as we
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dive into the deep waters and into madness. This is
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the case that has been called the most spectacular case
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in Danish history. Music Kim Wall was born in 1987.
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She grew up in the close-knit community in a small
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town in Trelleborg. This is in southern Sweden, just across
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the strait dividing Sweden from Denmark. Now, even when Kim
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was young, she was very ambitious and driven. She studied
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international relations, and from there she went on to earn
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two master's degrees, one from Columbia's internationally renowned School of Journalism,
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Kim took to journalism immediately. She loved stories. She specialized
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in stories about the fringes of society, about identity, gender,
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and societal subcultures. Her stories often conveyed a sense of
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social justice for these fringe groups, and she won awards
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for her articles. Her work was published across the world
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in esteemed publications such as the New York Times, Time Magazine,
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and The Guardian, just to mention a few. Last year,
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in 2017, Kim is 30 years old. She is a
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successful freelance reporter that spent years traveling the world in
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pursuit of the next great story. She went all over
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the globe to places like Uganda, Cuba, Kenya, New York City,
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and North Korea. In August of 2017, Kim was staying
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in Copenhagen with her partner, Danish designer Ali Stobie. when
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she began investigating a group of do-it-yourself inventors who were
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responsible for cutting-edge, privately financed rocket and submarine construction projects.
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Kim and Ollie had been walking around their neighborhood one afternoon,
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past the decrepit buildings of an old shipyard, when they
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came across the rocket building workshops. This got Kim's interest.
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She reached out to various publications. and had email exchanges
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with editors at Wired Magazine, working toward a freelance assignment
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to write about the rocket builders. She knew of one
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of them, who was considered a bit of a local celebrity.
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He spearheaded the rocket and sub-building projects. This is Peter Madsen,
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also known as Denmark's Rocket Madsen. Now, there was a
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clear and obvious direct competition between two of the rival
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space rocket building companies. This is what attracted Kim Wall.
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She knew there was a story here, and a good one.
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Kim and her boyfriend, Ali, were planning on moving to Beijing.
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The departure date, Captain, was August 16th, and this was approaching,
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but Kim wanted to finish her article on the Copenhagen suborbitals.
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That's tough to say. We're going to have to say
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it about 30 times today. Before she left permanently for China.
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On August 10th, a Thursday, Kim and Ali were preparing
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a goodbye party. with friends. In the late afternoon, just
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as they were setting up for a barbecue outdoors along
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the water, Kim got a text from Peter Madsen in
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response to her inquiries about a possible interview. The two
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had never met. He invited her for tea at his workshop.
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The hangar where he worked was not far from her place,
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so she figured she had enough time to go and
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still be back in time for this party. Now, after
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a quick half-hour meeting with Peter Madsen for tea, Kim
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returned home to let her boyfriend know that Peter had
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offered to take her out on his submarine. She said
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that over tea, Peter had been, quote, all over the place,
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and that she was nervous to go on the submarine
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with him, but it was a big opportunity. So after
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discussing this, Kim decided to forego her own goodbye party
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for the opportunity to ride on the famous sub and
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get an exclusive with Peter Madsen.
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Yeah, and you never let your girlfriend go on any
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other man's sub or boat.
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Well, she asked Ali to join her, but apparently at
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this time, when this discussion is happening, their friends have
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already been invited over. They've already set everything up. And
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it's my understanding that friends had already started to arrive
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by this point. So Ali says, hey, look, we got
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all these people coming over. If we both go, we're
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really doing a disservice to our friends here.
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Well, it shows you how passionate about her craft Kim was.
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She's going to drop everything, cut everybody out of her
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life in this one moment so she can go get
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her story.
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Right, potentially missing most of or all of a goodbye
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party for her when she's planning to move very far
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away just six days later. So I want to discuss
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this submarine real quick because it's a bit of a
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big deal for many reasons. Because this is what made
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Peter Madsen become a minor celebrity, let's say. The May
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2008 launch of this submarine was made him a minor celebrity.
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This was manufactured by the Suborbital Company, which was founded
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by him and another guy. Now, the submarine that they
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made they named it the UC-3 Nautilus.
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It's an awful name.
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This is, or at least at the time.
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Hold on. If you're going to name a submarine, what's
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it going to be?
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Oh, I have never thought about naming a submarine.
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One, two, three, go. Believe Land.
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Believe Land. You can't have the word land in any water.
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Thing, right? That's what makes it so good.
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Yeah.
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Good job.
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I don't know.
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I have no idea.
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That's why I don't name submarines. So, but the thing here, Captain,
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the Nautilus, at one time, or maybe still to this day,
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it was the world's biggest privately built submarine.
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Right.
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The UC-3 is a 58-foot sub weighing 40 tons and
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built from donated iron and other parts. It's diesel slash electric,
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and the interior featured a galley, bathroom, bunks, mess area, bridge,
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and engine room.
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Do we know the square footage of this? I don't.
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I do not. But it's, I mean, 58 foot is
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a decent size sub from my understanding. But regardless, you know,
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we've all seen the Hunt for Red October and Under Siege.
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And well, I don't think that took place in a sub.
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Maybe at some point it did, but regardless, we know
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that this is a confined space. Okay. And even though
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that it's 58 foot, we discussed the rooms that were there,
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you know, the, the galley, which you would expect, which
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is basically a kitchen. Uh, you have the bathroom bunks
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note that they state bunks instead of bedroom. So that
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should give you an idea that it's a small confined space.
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Right now, Kim set off to meet Peter at the submarine.
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She was wearing an orange fleece. a skirt and a
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pair of white sneakers. Apparently these sneakers were special to
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her in a way. Like these were something that she
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always wore when she went out on these different reporting journeys.
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Like her lucky sneakers.
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Maybe lucky sneakers, part of the uniform kind of deal.
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You know, people have that thing going on. Um, around
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7 PM, she texts the boyfriend some photos and this
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was of the submarine. She also texts photos of the
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windmills in the water. And herself at the steering wheel.
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These photos of Kim and Peter were in some of
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these photos as well. And I guess they can be
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found online. I've only been able to find one or
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two of them, not all that I have listed here.
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Yeah, I've seen a few.
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An article that I found stated that you could find
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these pretty easily. Now, Kim continued to text Ali periodically
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with her last text reading, I'm still alive, by the way,
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but going down now.
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I love you.
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He brought coffee, meaning he is Peter Madsen, brought coffee
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and cookies, though. A while later, Ollie was at the
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barbecue with all the friends, and one of the friends
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comes up to him and says, Hey, Ollie, look, and
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points out off into the water where he could see
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the submarine setting off to sea, and Kim is waving
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toward him from the hatch. The goodbye party went late
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and continued later on at a nearby bar. Since Kim
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had promised to be gone for only a couple of hours,
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Ollie did begin to get apprehensive about the fact that
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he had not heard from her since the time of
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seeing her wave to him in the distance. The two
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were supposed to leave for a wedding very early the
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next morning, and it was unlike Kim to not stay
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in touch. His thoughts, and this is where my head
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would go to, is perhaps there's no cell service. I mean,
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you're in a submarine, you know, at the bottom of
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the sea, right?
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Right.
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Well, and we have, you know, we don't know what
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their relationship was as far as like texting goes. But
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as far as this day, she texts him several pictures,
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several messages. And this is pretty much in a short
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period of time from when she leaves the party. get
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on the submarine. So you'd think that right when they
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come to service, right when she gets service to her
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cell phone, that she's going to be texting him something.
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Well, and we have to keep in mind here too,
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that they lived fairly close to the launch area for
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this submarine. You know, one, uh, she discovered this place
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when they were just out on a walk in the,
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in the area near their apartment or whatever they lived in. And,
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and from their party, from their I'm guessing their backyard
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area or where they were hosting this barbecue. He could
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see her from the launch waving to him. So, and
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then we also have the situation of Peter has that
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quick meeting with her and rather than her just texting
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or calling Ali to say, Hey, turns out this meeting's
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going longer and I'm going on the submarine. No, it
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seems to me she's the type of personality and they
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must be close enough that she goes, wait, Peter, I
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have to go home and talk to my boyfriend, let
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him know. what's going on, where I'm going, and such.
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She went a bit out of her way to make
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sure that there was a good understanding between the two
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of them.
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Well, and remember, they have a wedding they have to
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00:15:17.570 --> 00:15:19.590
leave for early in the morning. I don't know what
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00:15:19.649 --> 00:15:22.850
time they have to leave, but you'd assume that she
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00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.049
needs to get home so she can get ready. I
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00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:27.809
don't know if she packed. Most people pack the night before.
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00:15:28.409 --> 00:15:30.809
So you think that would be something else on her
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00:15:30.850 --> 00:15:31.809
plate that she had to do?
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00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:34.509
Yeah, and she took off, like I said, around like
248
00:15:34.509 --> 00:15:39.179
7 p.m. So, or I'm sorry, she text him. photos
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00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:41.370
at 7 p.m. saying, we're getting ready to go under.
250
00:15:42.169 --> 00:15:44.210
And she was only supposed to be gone for a
251
00:15:44.230 --> 00:15:46.570
couple of hours, or at least so she told him.
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00:15:48.129 --> 00:15:53.799
By 1.40 a.m., he, the boyfriend, Ollie, he's starting to
253
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.720
get extremely worried now, not having heard from her.
254
00:15:56.860 --> 00:15:59.269
Well, and also, I mean, let's face it, as a boyfriend,
255
00:16:00.029 --> 00:16:04.629
you can also... suspect that, you know, not suspect, but
256
00:16:04.649 --> 00:16:07.389
you might get worried that, hey, is there some kind
257
00:16:07.429 --> 00:16:11.620
of infidelity or something going on? This guy owns a submarine.
258
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.240
Well, he decides to call the police, and he reports
259
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.820
Kim missing. Then a half an hour later, he calls
260
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:24.139
the Navy. Now, no one could find Kim, obviously. There
261
00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:28.419
was no sign of the submarine either. In fact, separately
262
00:16:28.539 --> 00:16:33.129
from Ollie, one of Peter's co-workers... found it very strange
263
00:16:33.210 --> 00:16:37.289
and very concerning that the sub had not returned yet.
264
00:16:37.789 --> 00:16:42.889
So this coworker alerted authorities that the UC3 Nautilus and
265
00:16:42.929 --> 00:16:44.750
Peter Madsen were missing.
266
00:16:45.610 --> 00:16:48.210
Well, I applaud Ali because not only does he call
267
00:16:48.230 --> 00:16:50.820
the police, he calls the Navy. He says, hey, what's
268
00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:51.460
going on here?
269
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.440
Well, and you know what's, this is kind of a
270
00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:58.279
little out of bounds, but when we were discussing this
271
00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:00.960
case last week, the first thing that obviously jumps off
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00:17:00.980 --> 00:17:04.900
the page We've never discussed a missing submarine before. We've
273
00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:10.099
talked about missing individuals, missing adults, children, vehicles of all types.
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00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.250
The first thing being the submarine. Who would even know
275
00:17:15.329 --> 00:17:18.109
where to begin? Thank God you got the Navy you
276
00:17:18.150 --> 00:17:18.549
can call.
277
00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:21.089
Well, you start by looking in the water.
278
00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:26.890
Well, a search for the submarine started and the two
279
00:17:26.950 --> 00:17:31.730
missing individuals as well. This began around 4 a.m. that morning. Now,
280
00:17:31.769 --> 00:17:36.029
they used helicopters and ships to begin the search, searching
281
00:17:36.109 --> 00:17:40.569
waters around Copenhagen. And a call went out for volunteer
282
00:17:40.630 --> 00:17:45.180
vessels to join the search. At some point late on
283
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:51.180
that Thursday night into Friday morning, the Nautilus was apparently
284
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:57.150
sailing in the Åresund Strait between Sweden and Denmark. And
285
00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:01.480
this is, from my understanding, a very busy thoroughfare for ships.
286
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.160
The sub nearly collided with a freight ship. A witness
287
00:18:06.339 --> 00:18:09.140
on the freighter told police that the submarine had been
288
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.869
sailing with no lights on, which is one very strange
289
00:18:13.049 --> 00:18:17.170
and obviously very, very dangerous in the busy nighttime waters.
290
00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:22.130
The freight ship avoided crashing into the sub only because
291
00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:25.269
the moonlight was hit the submarine in a way that
292
00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:29.319
alerted the captain of the freighter to its proximity. And
293
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.240
he was somehow able to avoid a collision with the submarine.
294
00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:36.759
You'd think these vessels would also have some kind of sonar.
295
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:42.430
Well, yeah, I would think some of them would. This report,
296
00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:47.289
this was reported, I'm sorry, near the island of Saltham.
297
00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.470
This would be of great concern for searchers because it
298
00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:57.670
makes you wonder several things, right? One, is the submarine
299
00:18:57.910 --> 00:19:02.250
operating correctly? Is it, uh, is it running properly?
300
00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:03.049
Right.
301
00:19:03.069 --> 00:19:07.809
It also makes you wonder if anyone, if who, or
302
00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:10.450
if anyone is actually operating the craft.
303
00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:11.170
Yeah.
304
00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:15.650
Now they would continue to search for the entirety of
305
00:19:15.789 --> 00:19:21.279
the night. Then, at 10.30 a.m. on Friday, August 11th,
306
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:26.349
the Nautilus was spotted near a lighthouse in Coe Bay,
307
00:19:27.269 --> 00:19:31.029
near a deserted stretch of shoreline, which is about 30
308
00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:36.289
miles southwest of Refshilon. Thankfully, they were finally able to
309
00:19:36.390 --> 00:19:40.680
make radio contact with the sub. Peter reported to the
310
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:44.170
lighthouse that he was heading back to Copenhagen on but
311
00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:49.170
the sub was having some technical problems. According to a
312
00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:53.619
local newspaper, report, at 11 a.m., we have a gentleman
313
00:19:53.670 --> 00:19:58.700
named Christian Isbach. He's a local boat owner helping with
314
00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:02.599
the search. He saw Peter Madsen swimming toward a nearby
315
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:06.859
fishing boat. Peter was alive and well. He was pulled
316
00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:10.490
aboard the fishing boat. When this boat docked at the
317
00:20:10.529 --> 00:20:14.430
nearest port, reporters were waiting to get the story of
318
00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:18.099
the missing submarine. A reporter called out to Peter asking
319
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:21.779
if everything was okay. Peter turned around and gave the
320
00:20:21.819 --> 00:20:25.460
reporter a thumbs up. He said he was fine, but
321
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:29.029
he was sad because the Nautilus sank. There had been
322
00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:33.589
a defect on the ballast tank, he said. Still, there
323
00:20:33.650 --> 00:20:37.150
was no sign of Kim Wall, and Peter Madsen made
324
00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:39.660
no mention of her To his rescuers.
325
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.029
Lads watching the football like the lords of all creation.
326
00:20:51.750 --> 00:20:52.990
Ah, that's never a yellow.
327
00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:55.630
Game's gone. But who knows what the fates have in
328
00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:56.430
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336
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337
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Treacherous ring roads lie ahead on our mission to reach Nannas.
338
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.000
We must... Go to Mackey's for black pepper and garlic McNuggets.
339
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:27.619
Navigation rerouting.
340
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The main mission can wait.
341
00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:33.839
Take a side mission to McDonald's. Available until the 29th
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350
00:22:18.349 --> 00:22:19.569
All right. Cheers, mate.
351
00:22:20.089 --> 00:22:24.170
Cheers, Captain. So later on Friday, the police put out
352
00:22:24.210 --> 00:22:27.279
a statement saying that Peter Madsen told them in a
353
00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:31.299
lengthy interview that he had dropped Kim off near the
354
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:37.849
Havendet restaurant on the tip of Refshulun Island at around 10.30 p.m.
355
00:22:38.029 --> 00:22:40.930
on Thursday night. So this would be just the night
356
00:22:41.029 --> 00:22:45.849
before the submarine sank. Police were not able to find
357
00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:50.119
anyone Who had seen Kim after this time, after he
358
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.920
stated that he had dropped her off. The boyfriend hadn't
359
00:22:52.940 --> 00:22:55.349
seen her. Nobody in the area had seen her. She
360
00:22:55.369 --> 00:22:57.480
had not spoke to anybody or reached out to anybody.
361
00:22:57.549 --> 00:22:58.710
She didn't text her boyfriend.
362
00:22:58.890 --> 00:23:03.450
So Kim is now officially a missing person. Then the
363
00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:05.950
police spoke with a man who said that he saw
364
00:23:06.029 --> 00:23:10.269
Peter just minutes before Peter was rescued. He said that
365
00:23:10.329 --> 00:23:14.480
he saw Peter and the submarine before it sank. saying
366
00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:18.059
he saw Peter go down the hatch of the submarine
367
00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:21.940
and then reemerge as the sub began to sink. The
368
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.259
sub disappeared into the waters within a matter of seconds.
369
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.599
And this man described Peter Madsen as completely calm the
370
00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:33.700
entire time and said that Peter stayed in the tower
371
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:38.140
of the Nautilus until water started pouring into the tower.
372
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:42.160
And then Peter swam away to safety, saving himself.
373
00:23:43.329 --> 00:23:45.890
And you think that he would close it so the
374
00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:47.910
water wouldn't get into the submarine.
375
00:23:48.690 --> 00:23:48.970
Yeah.
376
00:23:49.190 --> 00:23:51.630
Well, there's all kinds of problems with this. One, I don't,
377
00:23:51.950 --> 00:23:53.410
I'm not going to sit here and pretend to have
378
00:23:53.450 --> 00:23:57.059
a full understanding of how typically submarines sink.
379
00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:57.859
I will.
380
00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:04.720
And what is the evacuation process for such. But just here,
381
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:07.480
here's one thing. The obvious thing is the guy stating
382
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.569
that the man seemed to be calm. I don't think
383
00:24:10.589 --> 00:24:13.069
that this is a calm situation. You know, most people
384
00:24:13.109 --> 00:24:17.789
wouldn't behave that way as the submarine sank one and two,
385
00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:22.609
this is his baby. He, he built, he was one
386
00:24:22.630 --> 00:24:24.609
of the people that built this submarine.
387
00:24:24.690 --> 00:24:27.559
Well, that's where I'd argue that maybe he would be
388
00:24:27.619 --> 00:24:31.279
calm because he knew what the malfunction was and knew
389
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.240
maybe there was nothing he could do about it. So
390
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.339
therefore he remained calm.
391
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:36.259
I gotcha.
392
00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:38.630
That's, you know, that's what, what I took it as.
393
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:41.240
One of those things is I know what the problem is.
394
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.349
I was here to witness this baby go down and
395
00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:45.930
I know how to fix it. It's just a matter
396
00:24:45.970 --> 00:24:47.690
of time. I just need the right stuff.
397
00:24:48.009 --> 00:24:49.980
And also there's nothing that I can do about it.
398
00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:53.049
So I just got to let it sink. And we're
399
00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:56.190
also talking about a company that built this thing. So
400
00:24:56.529 --> 00:24:59.690
they have the money to then when it sinks, we'll
401
00:24:59.730 --> 00:25:02.670
go get it. We'll fix it. No big deal.
402
00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:09.150
Well, police quickly reviewed CCTV footage. Of the area where
403
00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:12.849
he said that he had dropped Kim off. And this
404
00:25:12.890 --> 00:25:15.730
was provided to them by a restaurant owner, by the
405
00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:19.069
owner of the restaurant that we mentioned, uh, when looking
406
00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:19.650
for Kim.
407
00:25:20.150 --> 00:25:22.099
Well, because we know that's a bad thing. And you're
408
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:25.099
going to get publicity saying that, uh, you know, a
409
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:28.480
very attractive lady got dropped off here and went missing
410
00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:30.180
from this restaurant.
411
00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:33.579
Or, or nearby. Yeah. You're like, okay, that's a great
412
00:25:33.619 --> 00:25:36.039
way to encourage people to come to the area.
413
00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:36.400
Right.
414
00:25:36.869 --> 00:25:40.450
So they get involved. They give them the footage. Here's
415
00:25:40.529 --> 00:25:43.670
the strange thing though. Police do not see any sign
416
00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:48.630
of Kim on any of that, that closed caption footage and,
417
00:25:48.990 --> 00:25:52.420
or closed circuit TV footage. I'm sorry. The other thing
418
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.480
though is look, they had several cameras there. This wasn't
419
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.480
like they had one little rinky dink camera and they
420
00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:00.380
didn't see Kim.
421
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.059
Right.
422
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:04.359
They had plenty of cameras at different angles, picking up
423
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.200
large portions of that area. They don't see Kim. More,
424
00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:12.890
what I find even more damning here is they don't
425
00:26:12.930 --> 00:26:15.549
see the sub. You know, they don't see the submarine
426
00:26:15.589 --> 00:26:19.069
at any time docking, letting anybody off, anything like that.
427
00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:23.170
You know, Kim, maybe another woman could easily be mistaken
428
00:26:23.269 --> 00:26:25.470
for Kim or not for Kim or so on and
429
00:26:25.509 --> 00:26:28.170
so forth. But a sub is a sub, right?
430
00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:33.089
Right. So we have a weird situation where this inventor,
431
00:26:33.109 --> 00:26:37.920
this engineer- Builds a sub, invites this lady onto the
432
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:44.440
sub to interview him. The sub sinks. So now that's strange.
433
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.200
And then this other strange thing of him saying that
434
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.380
he dropped her off, but we have no sign of
435
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:50.980
her and we have no sign of the sub.
436
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:51.859
Correct.
437
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:54.339
So at this point, you know law enforcement is going,
438
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.059
something's not right here.
439
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.259
Well, something's not right. And you know what's interesting to me, though, is.
440
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:07.460
She doesn't become missing until they locate him, right? Everybody knows,
441
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:10.279
several people knew that she was last with him.
442
00:27:10.299 --> 00:27:11.180
Right.
443
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.859
So once he's located and the sub is witness to
444
00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:20.710
have sunk to the bottom, and he doesn't tell them
445
00:27:20.769 --> 00:27:24.470
until this interview. So what's weird here is where we
446
00:27:24.549 --> 00:27:28.289
know something strange and suspicious has probably happened, but at
447
00:27:28.329 --> 00:27:31.759
the same time, We mentioned that he didn't mention anything
448
00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:35.319
about Kim Wall to the rescuers or to the reporters
449
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.380
that were in the area. Well, if he dropped her
450
00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:40.180
off the night before, why would he mention anything about her?
451
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:42.700
You know, he dropped her off and then boom, he
452
00:27:42.740 --> 00:27:45.720
had this event take place where he's in a sinking ship,
453
00:27:46.299 --> 00:27:47.460
you know, sinking sub.
454
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:47.940
Right.
455
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.859
So in that aspect, you start almost wanting to believe
456
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:52.779
his story.
457
00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:53.299
Yeah.
458
00:27:53.380 --> 00:27:55.700
You wonder, well, what could have happened in that area
459
00:27:55.779 --> 00:27:58.160
and why didn't, why is there no footage of it?
460
00:27:58.549 --> 00:28:03.269
I'm thinking here, Captain, that the police likely doubted Peter's
461
00:28:03.309 --> 00:28:09.079
story from the get-go. Because authorities stated publicly at some point,
462
00:28:09.170 --> 00:28:12.660
and this is pretty early on in the investigation, that
463
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.640
they actually believed that they were looking for a body.
464
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.880
While they're still continuing to look for Kim and hope
465
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:22.240
and pray that she's alive, they publicly state that they
466
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:24.940
think they might be looking for her body at this point.
467
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.369
And I wonder, Peter being local... If he just came
468
00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:33.910
off as an odd character anyways, that would make them
469
00:28:34.150 --> 00:28:34.910
lean towards that.
470
00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:39.089
Well, actually there was some evidence that are going to
471
00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:43.380
point them in this direction and it's around the same time,
472
00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:45.279
you know, when they make this public statement that they
473
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:47.769
might be looking for a body. This was a 5
474
00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:51.740
30 PM on that Friday, August 11th, just hours after
475
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.740
he had been rescued from the waters, police arrested Peter.
476
00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:00.299
And placed him in what's called a, quote, preliminary detention,
477
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.920
which is the equivalent of preliminary criminal charges pending, on
478
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:10.529
suspicion of involuntary manslaughter for, and this is their exact wording,
479
00:29:10.970 --> 00:29:15.069
for having killed in an unknown way in an unknown
480
00:29:15.170 --> 00:29:21.470
place Kim Isabel Frederica Wall of Sweden sometime after 5 p.m.
481
00:29:21.670 --> 00:29:27.309
Thursday. Okay, so... Pardon my stupidity, but how are they
482
00:29:27.490 --> 00:29:29.869
jumping from rescuing him to this?
483
00:29:30.509 --> 00:29:34.289
Well, there was one more charge, and we'll get into
484
00:29:34.450 --> 00:29:38.710
this evidence here, which is pretty– it's interesting. It's sad,
485
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:43.329
but it's interesting. He was also charged with indecent handling
486
00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:47.019
of a corpse. Now, we don't know what went down
487
00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:50.980
during his lengthy interview. We do know that he told
488
00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:56.180
them that he dropped her off, but... the indictment revealed
489
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.990
that Kim's DNA had been found on Peter's hands, neck
490
00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:05.769
and nostrils. Now we should talk about this for a
491
00:30:05.809 --> 00:30:07.890
minute because I don't think this is something that's pretty,
492
00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:13.289
this isn't clear to everyone. So when somebody kills somebody
493
00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:16.210
and it's, it's in a manner that it's up close
494
00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:20.160
and personal, obviously you're going to get blood and evidence
495
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:21.839
of that victim on yourself.
496
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:22.640
Okay.
497
00:30:23.130 --> 00:30:26.410
Or on the perpetrator will. And so a lot of
498
00:30:26.470 --> 00:30:31.410
times what will happen is the offender, even if they're
499
00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:34.210
very good at cleaning up the evidence and cleaning off
500
00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:38.680
the evidence of themselves, a really great spot and place
501
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.279
for investigators to use a DNA swab is in the nostrils,
502
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.400
because that's a place that they don't, you don't see
503
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.930
in the mirror naturally. And it's a place that they
504
00:30:49.970 --> 00:30:50.990
forget to clean.
505
00:30:51.009 --> 00:30:51.450
Right.
506
00:30:51.849 --> 00:30:54.950
And they also swab the ears sometimes because in the
507
00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:57.950
heat of the moment, when we have blood spatter, especially
508
00:30:58.089 --> 00:31:00.690
if it's up close and personal and you're, if you're
509
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:06.099
at a excited heightened state, you might be breathing heavily
510
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.759
in and out, inhale, exhale. And some of that blood
511
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.759
spatter will end up in the nostrils.
512
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:11.039
Yeah.
513
00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:12.349
And have you seen Peter?
514
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:14.299
Have I seen him?
515
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:15.000
Yeah.
516
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.220
Yeah, I've seen pictures of him.
517
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.940
Yeah, so one, he might have the world's largest dick nose.
518
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.920
And then two, he probably shouldn't have been working on submarines.
519
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.349
He could have probably been flying around with those giant
520
00:31:26.509 --> 00:31:27.349
ears he has.
521
00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:30.849
Well, one thing that was weird about this, there's a
522
00:31:30.890 --> 00:31:34.269
well-known photo of Peter. And this is when he's speaking
523
00:31:34.349 --> 00:31:38.910
to an officer immediately upon docking with the fishing boat
524
00:31:38.970 --> 00:31:42.759
that rescued him. And in this photo, you can find
525
00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.509
this online and you can zoom in and you can
526
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:48.730
see what appears to be either a cut or a
527
00:31:48.910 --> 00:31:52.410
drop of blood on his nose. And you can also
528
00:31:52.529 --> 00:31:57.390
see that he has a dark substance underneath his fingernails.
529
00:31:58.109 --> 00:32:01.190
When he was examined at the hospital, they did find
530
00:32:01.289 --> 00:32:06.250
scratches that were visible on his arms. He attributed these
531
00:32:06.390 --> 00:32:10.500
to injuries that came from being on the submarine. As
532
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.440
it was sinking. The authorities were able to raise the
533
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.920
Nautilus from the depths. Turns out it was only 22
534
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.430
feet down. They emptied it of water and they searched
535
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:24.910
the sub. They did not find Kim. They determined that
536
00:32:24.950 --> 00:32:29.930
the submarine had been deliberately sank. And the local media
537
00:32:29.970 --> 00:32:33.759
began to speculate that Peter attempted to cover up a
538
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:34.460
bigger crime.
539
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:34.880
Right.
540
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:39.309
This speculation increased when the chief homicide investigator for the
541
00:32:39.369 --> 00:32:45.109
Copenhagen police said that coagulated blood was found inside the
542
00:32:45.190 --> 00:32:48.529
nautilus and later was determined to belong to that of
543
00:32:48.609 --> 00:32:49.250
Kim Wall.
544
00:32:49.289 --> 00:32:52.109
The DNA that they found on him during the investigation
545
00:32:52.170 --> 00:32:56.259
or during the interrogation, how did they do this DNA
546
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:57.240
test so quickly?
547
00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:58.720
That I don't know.
548
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:01.099
But it was done relatively fast.
549
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:05.470
Well, okay. So let's talk about that because, you know,
550
00:33:05.509 --> 00:33:08.190
when you have, let's say somebody breaks into your home
551
00:33:08.329 --> 00:33:12.509
and they find blood at the scene, like maybe they
552
00:33:12.549 --> 00:33:15.910
cut themselves on some glass breaking into your house. And
553
00:33:16.789 --> 00:33:20.509
when they take, from my experience, having worked in security,
554
00:33:21.089 --> 00:33:24.190
usually there's been times where we have submitted and said, hey, look,
555
00:33:24.230 --> 00:33:27.490
we believe this is the DNA or evidence of the
556
00:33:27.529 --> 00:33:28.890
person that committed this crime.
557
00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:29.190
Mm-hmm.
558
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.740
They'll take it. They'll add it to the report. They'll
559
00:33:31.779 --> 00:33:34.579
add it to the file with the caveat of telling
560
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:38.200
you that you do know that if we do check
561
00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:41.019
this at all, it could be years. It's because it's
562
00:33:41.059 --> 00:33:45.960
a break-in. It's a lower-level crime. Nobody was harmed in
563
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.700
the committing of that crime or killed.
564
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:48.000
Yeah.
565
00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:53.099
And we saw this here specifically in Columbus when that
566
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:57.779
real piece-of-shit asshole abducted that woman outside of her work.
567
00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:58.220
Mm-hmm.
568
00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:01.700
For no reason other than to rape and kill her.
569
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:02.339
Right.
570
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:06.980
And we saw how quickly they were able to provide
571
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.360
the DNA results to that test.
572
00:34:09.619 --> 00:34:09.820
Right.
573
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:12.489
They were onto him pretty quick. They found plenty of
574
00:34:12.570 --> 00:34:15.909
evidence of him at the scene where they found her body.
575
00:34:16.469 --> 00:34:18.730
And eventually, you know, we heard what, was it a
576
00:34:18.750 --> 00:34:21.869
day or 48 hours? It was, it was very quick,
577
00:34:22.429 --> 00:34:26.199
very quick. So I think that we're seeing a similar
578
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.929
situation here. Plus, you know, these different areas operate differently.
579
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.179
We're also talking about an area that has an incredibly,
580
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.480
incredibly low murder rate. Like to the point that it's
581
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.400
so low that it's hard to even compare it to
582
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:40.420
anything here.
583
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:41.559
Okay.
584
00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:46.010
So they may not have as many things waiting in
585
00:34:46.110 --> 00:34:48.369
line to be checked or to be tested.
586
00:34:48.670 --> 00:34:51.110
Right. But either way, it's impressive.
587
00:34:51.889 --> 00:34:54.789
It is impressive. I agree with that. So now we're
588
00:34:54.829 --> 00:34:58.329
left with the big question of, What happened to Kim Wall?
589
00:34:59.329 --> 00:35:01.909
We know that she was due to go on the submarine.
590
00:35:01.949 --> 00:35:06.349
She sent pictures of herself on there. She's waving goodbye
591
00:35:06.429 --> 00:35:11.369
to her boyfriend as they take off. This guy that's,
592
00:35:11.469 --> 00:35:15.349
that's the manning the boat. I'm going to keep referring
593
00:35:15.389 --> 00:35:16.050
to it as a boat.
594
00:35:16.449 --> 00:35:17.929
But this guy. It's called a submarine.
595
00:35:18.170 --> 00:35:22.050
The guy that's Peter Madsen says he drops her off. Obviously,
596
00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:25.369
he didn't drop her off. They find evidence to the
597
00:35:25.409 --> 00:35:28.730
fact that she was either injured or killed in that submarine.
598
00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:31.289
Yeah, and evidence that maybe she fought back.
599
00:35:32.210 --> 00:35:35.949
Yes. And even now that they've found and located the sub,
600
00:35:37.010 --> 00:35:40.159
we still don't have Kim Wall. Now, her parents, of course,
601
00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:46.170
were extremely devastated by their daughter's missing person status. And
602
00:35:46.210 --> 00:35:48.769
they issued a statement that read quote, it is with
603
00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:52.409
great concern that we, her family received the news that
604
00:35:52.449 --> 00:35:56.420
Kim is missing after an interview with Peter Madsen in Denmark.
605
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:59.519
We sincerely hope that she will be found and that
606
00:35:59.619 --> 00:36:05.400
she is well. Now, The very strange thing here, though, too, Captain,
607
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.880
is that we talked about Kim's resume as a journalist,
608
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:13.260
as somebody that traveled all over the place. I mean,
609
00:36:13.900 --> 00:36:17.280
she went to some very dangerous, she took on very
610
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:22.489
dangerous assignments in foreign places over the years. And it's
611
00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:26.389
so hard to believe, and I can't imagine that anyone
612
00:36:26.469 --> 00:36:29.670
thought that she could be a victim in her own land.
613
00:36:30.369 --> 00:36:32.849
after having gone to all these dangerous corners of the
614
00:36:32.909 --> 00:36:36.780
world in her own land, where it's considered to be
615
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:38.840
one of the safest in the world.
616
00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:41.760
Well, it's just, like I said before, her passion for
617
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:44.550
her job and her craft, it's pretty inspiring.
618
00:36:44.809 --> 00:36:47.809
Well, the next day, so this is August 12th now,
619
00:36:48.289 --> 00:36:53.809
this is in a courtroom appearance in the involuntary manslaughter charge.
620
00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:57.639
Peter told the court that Kim had actually accidentally died
621
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:02.159
on board in a quote, terrible accident. He said that
622
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.139
a 150 pound hatch had fallen and hit her on
623
00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:10.860
the head. She then fell to the bottom of the
624
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.090
tower with a fatal head injury. Peter Madsen said that
625
00:37:15.139 --> 00:37:17.750
he panicked at that point and he used a rope
626
00:37:18.130 --> 00:37:21.829
to drag Kim's body up and out of the submarine.
627
00:37:22.539 --> 00:37:26.000
To which then he said he buried it at sea. Okay.
628
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:30.980
Okay, so one, buried it at sea. Does that mean
629
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:35.000
he just put it in the water? Sounds to me.
630
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.300
Like it's a tossed or overboard situation.
631
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:41.340
And I never understand these people that say, it's an
632
00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:43.920
accident and I freaked out.
633
00:37:44.619 --> 00:37:47.119
So I buried the body, yeah, or tossed it out
634
00:37:47.179 --> 00:37:47.880
into the ocean.
635
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.860
Right. If I'm in my submarine. because I only have
636
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.679
like three or four of them. But when I'm in
637
00:37:55.699 --> 00:37:59.340
the big one, if there was an accident and I
638
00:37:59.539 --> 00:38:02.219
freaked out, you know what that freak out is going
639
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.230
to consist of? Me not going around the body. Me
640
00:38:06.309 --> 00:38:12.309
calling the cops. Right. Me calling an ambulance. That's me
641
00:38:12.389 --> 00:38:12.989
freaking out.
642
00:38:13.289 --> 00:38:13.489
Right.
643
00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:18.900
Me, what's not freaking out is when you can grab
644
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.340
the body, you can touch the body, you can move
645
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:26.360
the body. That's not freaking out. That's you being a
646
00:38:26.380 --> 00:38:27.019
piece of shit.
647
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:29.460
Well, and I think that's right though. I mean, that's,
648
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:34.500
that would be the expected natural behavior and reaction to
649
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:38.019
a horrible accident. You would, you would go to the person,
650
00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:39.800
see if you can aid them and help them in
651
00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:42.349
any way. And once that's determined that it's too late
652
00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:46.250
for that, it's get them some real help, get them
653
00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:49.130
to another place, you know, get them in a better space.
654
00:38:49.929 --> 00:38:52.820
Well, I'm calling the I'm calling 911 right away anyways,
655
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:54.860
because what am I going to help him with?
656
00:38:55.539 --> 00:38:58.559
Well, the thing here is, and we've seen this in
657
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:04.360
several other cases, okay? This is, in Peter's defense, at
658
00:39:04.469 --> 00:39:08.349
least a more believable story, given the information and the
659
00:39:08.429 --> 00:39:09.969
evidence that they now have.
660
00:39:10.309 --> 00:39:12.710
Right, but you can't believe him at this point, because
661
00:39:12.769 --> 00:39:16.630
we do have evidence that he sank his own submarine.
662
00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:19.969
We have evidence that he lied about where he dropped
663
00:39:19.989 --> 00:39:23.039
her off. So to then all of a sudden believe
664
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:27.889
this story, which doesn't point much guilt towards him, you go,
665
00:39:27.909 --> 00:39:29.190
wait a second. And it's frustrating.
666
00:39:30.130 --> 00:39:33.650
All those reasons that the authorities didn't have any, you know,
667
00:39:34.090 --> 00:39:37.570
they very obviously weren't buying what he was selling, trying
668
00:39:37.610 --> 00:39:39.820
to sell them. You know, they were not going to
669
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:42.900
release this guy, which only makes sense, like you said,
670
00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:46.260
by his own statements. We know that he's lied at
671
00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:50.039
least once. And now he's admitting some form of guilt
672
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:52.159
of getting rid of this corpse.
673
00:39:52.630 --> 00:39:55.510
Right. And we have evidence of her fighting you. We
674
00:39:55.530 --> 00:39:59.389
have evidence of her DNA being in your nostrils. It
675
00:39:59.429 --> 00:40:02.210
doesn't happen if she just dies from an accident.
676
00:40:02.809 --> 00:40:05.650
Well, as we said, Captain, the police pretty much arrested
677
00:40:06.030 --> 00:40:10.260
Peter Manson right away as they believed that he harmed
678
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:15.079
or killed Kim very early on. Well, they searched his
679
00:40:15.260 --> 00:40:21.539
computers shortly after they arrest him. They even recreated his profile,
680
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.840
the profile of his mobile phone somehow.
681
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:24.320
Hmm.
682
00:40:24.750 --> 00:40:29.690
Now, neither his phone nor Kim's phone would ever be found.
683
00:40:30.349 --> 00:40:34.809
So presumably it's pretty easy to, to use a little
684
00:40:34.849 --> 00:40:38.769
bit of imagination here and figure out that likely Peter
685
00:40:38.989 --> 00:40:41.050
tossed both of them into the water.
686
00:40:41.210 --> 00:40:41.429
Right.
687
00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:43.829
But you'd, you'd think they'd be able to retrieve the
688
00:40:43.909 --> 00:40:46.250
records or even maybe the text messages.
689
00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:49.429
They did not anticipate what they are going to find
690
00:40:49.860 --> 00:40:51.179
on his computers.
691
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:51.820
Okay.
692
00:40:52.340 --> 00:40:56.519
Now, some people have pornographic material on their computers. Well,
693
00:40:56.900 --> 00:41:01.210
what they found on his computer was not just regular porn.
694
00:41:01.670 --> 00:41:02.170
Right.
695
00:41:02.250 --> 00:41:06.130
Police discovered more than 40 videos on Peter's laptop that
696
00:41:06.170 --> 00:41:11.940
appeared to show women being strangled, hanged, decapitated, skinned, sexually impaled,
697
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:16.920
and tortured. Some of these videos were animations, but one
698
00:41:16.940 --> 00:41:21.019
in particular of a woman being beheaded was was deemed
699
00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:24.619
by authorities to be real, or at least they believed
700
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:28.429
it to be real. Other hard drives owned by.
701
00:41:28.969 --> 00:41:35.090
So we have videos of women being tied up and choked,
702
00:41:35.650 --> 00:41:41.750
and that's one level. But then we have where they
703
00:41:41.809 --> 00:41:47.099
think this video, this decapitation video, they actually think it's real?
704
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:49.619
Mm-hmm. Oh.
705
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:53.079
Yeah, so some of them, like I said, some of
706
00:41:53.119 --> 00:42:00.179
them were animated videos and others were probably dramatizations or
707
00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:03.539
the real deal. Now, all I have is their statements,
708
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:06.199
what they said to the public. And I don't know
709
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.090
how many of these were animations, how many were dramatizations,
710
00:42:09.139 --> 00:42:11.800
how many were thought to be real. But this one,
711
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:17.210
there was one in particular that the authorities that viewed
712
00:42:17.389 --> 00:42:19.989
this material stated they believed it to be real.
713
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.429
That'd be my luck, they would say. Captain, go in
714
00:42:24.469 --> 00:42:27.769
the corner, watch these videos, let us know what you think.
715
00:42:28.150 --> 00:42:29.929
That'd be my first day on the job.
716
00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:33.929
Well, they also checked out other hard drives owned by Peter,
717
00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:38.170
and this contained over 100 additional videos that were all
718
00:42:38.210 --> 00:42:42.289
similar in nature. Some of these went back as long
719
00:42:42.469 --> 00:42:42.690
as 2004, so.
720
00:42:44.530 --> 00:42:49.440
Meaning he was downloading these as early as 2004. Peter's
721
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:55.619
phone contained seven texts regarding impaling women in the genital region.
722
00:42:56.409 --> 00:43:00.889
Even more distressing. Authorities were able to determine that Peter
723
00:43:00.989 --> 00:43:05.429
had actually searched for and watched some of these videos.
724
00:43:06.369 --> 00:43:06.670
Meaning.
725
00:43:07.900 --> 00:43:10.659
Meaning he didn't just stumble upon some of the videos
726
00:43:10.699 --> 00:43:12.159
that were on his hard drives.
727
00:43:12.219 --> 00:43:12.500
Right.
728
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:15.579
Some of them he was searching for or believed to
729
00:43:15.619 --> 00:43:18.380
be searched for because they could find terms that he
730
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:22.050
was using when searching. And the terms he was using
731
00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:27.309
were executions and dismemberment. And starting in March of 2017,
732
00:43:27.309 --> 00:43:34.570
these searches continued into July and August of last year
733
00:43:34.650 --> 00:43:40.340
as well. Most horrifyingly, the night before Kim boarded the submarine,
734
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:46.050
Peter Googled beheaded girl agony and watched the video that
735
00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:48.929
showed up as a result of that search.
736
00:43:49.409 --> 00:43:52.969
Do they think that one was real? Or does it matter?
737
00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:57.110
I don't have their opinion on this one, but I
738
00:43:57.190 --> 00:44:01.530
do know some of the details of that video. It's
739
00:44:01.590 --> 00:44:04.849
a video that was entitled Young Woman in Pain as
740
00:44:04.889 --> 00:44:10.750
She Slowly... as she slowly beheaded with a small knife. Now, it's...
741
00:44:11.030 --> 00:44:11.329
You know.
742
00:44:11.369 --> 00:44:15.610
And there's been, you know, beheading videos that terrorists have
743
00:44:15.650 --> 00:44:18.969
posted online, and I know that people have watched them.
744
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:24.320
I've never been able to bring myself to watch one.
745
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.800
And then you have this guy that's watching these for
746
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:38.110
sexual gratification. I mean, he's He's watching a woman be
747
00:44:38.170 --> 00:44:41.130
decapitated while he's playing a game of Flicky Flicky.
748
00:44:41.510 --> 00:44:45.409
Well, at least that's what it's titled. I don't know
749
00:44:45.449 --> 00:44:48.389
that that's what exactly was depicted in that video.
750
00:44:48.570 --> 00:44:51.199
Well, not in that video, but we have the police
751
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.460
stating that one of the videos they think is real.
752
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:54.380
Right.
753
00:44:54.739 --> 00:45:01.559
So, again, I mean, I think this goes beyond because
754
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:05.110
they always kind of talk about, you know, watching too
755
00:45:05.150 --> 00:45:09.429
much pornography will desensitize you on some level, but this
756
00:45:09.510 --> 00:45:13.710
is a whole different level. This is not even being desensitized.
757
00:45:13.750 --> 00:45:14.849
This is somebody that has.
758
00:45:15.130 --> 00:45:17.860
Well, and I wouldn't even call this pornography at this point.
759
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:18.019
Right.
760
00:45:18.039 --> 00:45:18.599
I mean, this is.
761
00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:19.280
Murder.
762
00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:21.340
They're snuff films.
763
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:21.940
Right.
764
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.500
You know, they're torture porn snuff films.
765
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:25.340
Right, but.
766
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:25.820
Right.
767
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:28.539
You know, it's not even pornography at this point.
768
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.179
Right, but it's like you... To me, it's like you
769
00:45:31.219 --> 00:45:31.820
wonder how.
770
00:45:33.530 --> 00:45:38.130
What was broken in this guy's brain to make him
771
00:45:39.590 --> 00:45:42.230
think that this is okay to be watching?
772
00:45:42.849 --> 00:45:46.389
Well, in, in fairness, I guess, to Peter, he did
773
00:45:46.429 --> 00:45:50.619
deny that these videos were his, uh, pointing out that
774
00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:54.539
all the videos that were found were found on computers
775
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:00.320
that were accessible by others, including his phone, uh, including, um,
776
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:04.579
interns that worked at his office. He stuck to this
777
00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:07.480
story for a little while, but he did later fess
778
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:13.760
up to having watched these videos. For his part, he
779
00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:19.699
denied deriving any sexual pleasure from these torture and snuff films.
780
00:46:20.389 --> 00:46:25.010
He said to the authorities that he watched them to feel, quote,
781
00:46:25.409 --> 00:46:29.869
strong emotions, end quote. And also... quote, I watch these
782
00:46:29.929 --> 00:46:33.559
videos to cry and feel emotions, he said.
783
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:39.960
Okay, so if we believe him, which I don't, but
784
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:46.559
if we do believe him, yeah, maybe, I mean, look,
785
00:46:46.579 --> 00:46:50.780
and I hate to compare Peter to like Elon Musk,
786
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.340
but it's like, you know, I was watching the interview
787
00:46:53.389 --> 00:46:57.090
with Elon Musk and Joe Rogan, and there's times where
788
00:46:57.170 --> 00:47:02.139
Elon Musk And you see this with the Facebook creator.
789
00:47:02.659 --> 00:47:03.239
Zuckerberg?
790
00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:09.860
Yeah, Mark Zuckerberg. Where almost computer-like, they start talking sometimes
791
00:47:09.940 --> 00:47:14.340
and you wonder how they seem to have such lack
792
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:17.340
of emotion. So it's like, if you do believe what
793
00:47:17.389 --> 00:47:22.309
Peter is saying, did he get that far gone mentally
794
00:47:22.349 --> 00:47:27.530
where he's like, I don't feel anything, good or bad.
795
00:47:28.989 --> 00:47:31.309
I think there's evidence that shows that he's not just
796
00:47:31.369 --> 00:47:35.510
watching it for what he's saying. But again, there's some
797
00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:39.400
mental break there. You have to be a pretty sick
798
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.539
individual to be saying, I don't feel anything, so I
799
00:47:43.579 --> 00:47:48.579
have to watch something this awful to just create some
800
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:49.780
kind of emotion in me.
801
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:53.190
Well, if we're to believe him, that means he's dead inside.
802
00:47:53.849 --> 00:47:54.110
Right.
803
00:47:54.329 --> 00:47:58.090
He's dead inside. He's void of emotion by his own statement.
804
00:47:58.510 --> 00:48:00.829
And if we don't believe him, and which I think
805
00:48:00.909 --> 00:48:04.250
is probably more likely, if not, you could have a
806
00:48:04.289 --> 00:48:09.190
combination of both. But then that means that the other
807
00:48:09.449 --> 00:48:14.099
alternative would be that he is deriving sexual pleasure from
808
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:15.699
watching these videos.
809
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:18.039
Right. And when he states that, you know, and then
810
00:48:18.219 --> 00:48:22.920
I'd cry. Well, I think afterwards, like I said, if
811
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.219
there's something broken inside you, you you might cry after
812
00:48:26.260 --> 00:48:28.820
this because you're going, what the hell is wrong with me?
813
00:48:29.739 --> 00:48:34.469
Why am I having to watch this to, to, you know,
814
00:48:34.809 --> 00:48:36.929
get off during a game of flicky flicky? I mean,
815
00:48:36.969 --> 00:48:41.030
so I just, I don't know. It's just, it's so bizarre.
816
00:48:41.050 --> 00:48:42.869
But you didn't feel that bad, did he? Let's say
817
00:48:42.909 --> 00:48:45.849
he did cry. All right. Let's, let's say he, by
818
00:48:45.889 --> 00:48:51.420
his own words, he cried to feel emotion. whatever emotions
819
00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:53.480
he was feeling, they weren't bad enough for him to
820
00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:56.619
stop watching this shit. No, no, no. So he didn't
821
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.320
feel that bad. He may have felt, let's say he did.
822
00:48:59.619 --> 00:49:01.059
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He felt
823
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:04.449
bad in the moment. If you truly feel bad about something,
824
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.409
if you truly feel bad about something, he's 100% or
825
00:49:08.469 --> 00:49:13.449
should be 100% in control of this despicable action that
826
00:49:13.510 --> 00:49:15.289
he's doing repetitiously.
827
00:49:15.769 --> 00:49:16.030
Right.
828
00:49:16.929 --> 00:49:20.340
He at any time could stop or seek help for this.
829
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.239
Right. On a psychology level, that's what makes me wonder.
830
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.059
It's like, I mean, you look at a Dahmer or somebody,
831
00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:30.960
like the fantasies that Dahmer was having were very odd fantasies.
832
00:49:32.139 --> 00:49:37.289
And so it goes back to was this individual born
833
00:49:37.349 --> 00:49:41.369
broken or Or did they get broken? You see what
834
00:49:41.409 --> 00:49:45.530
I mean? So it's just, I wonder what the hell
835
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.840
happened for him to get to this point. Or if
836
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:52.179
he was just made this sick.
837
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.760
So hopefully everybody is all caught up on all of
838
00:50:06.860 --> 00:50:10.559
our episodes. If not, it's very easy. They are available
839
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.550
to you for free, all of the old episodes on
840
00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:14.550
the Stitcher app.
841
00:50:14.610 --> 00:50:17.690
We'll have the conclusion of Kim Wall's case tomorrow. Until then,
842
00:50:18.090 --> 00:50:19.949
be good, be kind, and don't litter.
843
00:50:50.650 --> 00:50:53.909
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844
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