Leading with Integrity: Inside Omaha’s Business Ethics Alliance

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Welcome, everyone, to the Triple Margin Freedom Podcast, a podcast designed
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for entrepreneurs, mission-driven leaders, nonprofit executives,
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and people like you and me.
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My name is Mark Mathia, and I am in studio at the beautiful Weber Eye Studio
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in downtown Omaha with Dr. Anne-Marie Mollier, who is the director of the Business
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Ethic Alliance and so much more.
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Anne-Marie, welcome. Thank you. I am so delighted to be here.
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I am thrilled to have you here and also very blessed that we've had an opportunity
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to work together and to support the Omaha community together.
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And so I was really excited about our opportunity to sit down and talk about
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ethics, talk about leadership, talk about you.
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So before we get into that, though, would you mind giving us a little history
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about some of the path your career has taken and what brought you to today?
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Yeah, I've always known since I was five that I would be a teacher of some kind.
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I grew up in a family of clergy and social workers and teachers.
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So I was probably called, I think, to be in that people-helping realm.
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And as I got older, the type of teacher I wanted to be changed.
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And it really.
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It really set me on a path in high school because I had two phenomenal teachers.
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One was an English teacher and one was a social studies teacher.
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And I was in honors classes and they lovingly called each other Queen Victoria
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and Princess Dydide because their names were Victoria and Diane.
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And they just made literature and all of the context surrounding it come alive.
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And I fell in love in particular with medieval literature.
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Dante and Chaucer, Milton and Dunn, and all of those things that make most people's
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eyes roll back in their head.
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But it came alive for me. And so I thought, I'm going to be a professor,
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a college professor, and I'm going to teach medieval literature.
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And then I found out that there's probably exactly zero jobs in the whole entire
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universe each year, and I really wanted to eat.
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So I thought, well, I can do that, but I've got to have something more practical.
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And so I shifted into communications, media, and theater. Okay.
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And so I ended up double majoring, but I still didn't quite know what I wanted to do when I graduated.
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I had been helping pay my way through school as a resident assistant and an
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apartment manager. Okay. And I loved that.
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I loved being available to support my residents.
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I loved being able to contribute to their growth during college.
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And so I shifted into student life and I worked in student programming,
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student leadership, student learning.
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And so, you know, it's weird.
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I've always had that educator's component, but the environment changed a little bit.
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I was working in student life when my parents were killed in an accident.
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And so I took a little time. I took a retail job at the closest mall just to
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be closer to home and help my sister and.
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But I found out I really missed the education. And so I went back to school
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and got my master's in adult ed.
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And when I started on that path, I also knew that I was going to be working
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on a doctorate someday. And so I started my doctorate back home in Wisconsin and urban education.
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And I have been in higher education now for almost 25 years.
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But after my third ethical issue that I ran into, and the latest one,
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which impacted about half of my 20-person team.
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I started to just rethink a little bit, like, is this really where I want to
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be? Is this what I want to do? I've been here for 25 years.
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And the answer was yes, but I think I need a change.
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And that's what led me into the Business Ethics Alliance. Wow.
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Wow. And I know that you had a great start because you were a participant with
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the Alliance long before you became the director with the Alliance.
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And before you became the director with the Alliance, you also came on as kind
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of the program or content builder of that.
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And so, again, a lot kind of led you to where you're at today.
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So our listeners know, I do talk about the Ethic Alliance a lot when I'm on
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because I think, for me, foundationally to leadership is our ethics.
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I used to say it was values. And then I was thinking, well, it's really kind
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of our morals. And then it's our character.
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It comes down to ethics, doesn't it? And it's what you live.
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It is. And when we do Ethics 101 training, we do an activity called Take a Stand.
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It's an old teaching trick.
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And we read a series of four or five statements.
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Something as simple as, ethics are the same as values. And then we ask people,
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if you agree with the statement, stand over here. If you disagree, stand over here.
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And so they do. And then we talk about what it means, why did you choose this,
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and inevitably what happens.
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Even though I don't say they can't stand in the middle. Inevitably,
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people start to stand in the middle. And what that demonstrates is.
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We have a tendency, I think, as humans, and I don't know if we're hardwired
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for this, but we have a tendency to kind of see things as one or the other, right?
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And reality is so much more complex, and you and I were talking about this,
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that we can understand something maybe intellectually, but when it comes down
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to living it emotionally.
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We may shift a little bit. And that's okay.
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So going back to that ethics and values statement, we'd usually get a fair amount
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of folks saying, yeah, ethics and values are the same thing.
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And they're often used interchangeably, but they really are distinct concepts.
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The values are more driven by our internal views, our internal perspectives.
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They are often influenced by family views.
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Whereas our ethics are the behaviors that are outward. How do we show those values, right?
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So if we value trust, then we are likely to look for trust in a relationship
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both to give and to get. Yes, yes. And then that.
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Helps to shape our ethical behavior. I don't know why I couldn't say that.
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It happens. Oh, goodness. I love what you just said there. And it's so important
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because oftentimes when I'm working with an executive and we get into those
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things, we really do look for that. I call it values alignment.
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But what it is, is like, how are you living it? So one of the questions I ask
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a ton of people, I might have asked you before too, you know,
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in that moment, what's it like to be on the other side of you?
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Because that self-reflection gets to that root of it. How are you living it out?
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So if you have that value of trust, but you get in a situation where you have
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to fib, not only, by the way, do I think that adds to the backpack of burnout,
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I also think it causes a person to be a little disrupted in their force, out of balance.
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Yes, but I might also say that the extent to which you become out of balance
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depends on how you are able,
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to reflect and understand the other person, maybe, where there's some misalignment.
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I've run across a lot of folks who think differently than I do,
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either politically or socially. Yes.
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I believe very strongly that if I'm going to live my values,
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I have to be consistent with that, even if others might look at that and say, why?
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Yes. Right? So I have a dear friend who couldn't be farther apart on the political
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spectrum from me. Well, you know there's only two.
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There's two sides these days.
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What they forget is there's also the ridge around the coin and the dirt that's
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on the coin right and and this person,
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and i really struggled in our relationship for a while but then i i started
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to reflect okay well what is this person seeing,
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and if i don't give this person the respect to hold their beliefs and their
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values even if i disagree then i'm being an absolute hypocrite right,
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And so now we are in, we're in a good place with the relationship,
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there's a lot of trust, this person is a really good person,
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and does really wonderful things.
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But someone might look at them and say, well, how do the two of you even get
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along? Right. You probably wouldn't give them a ride to the polling center, but. Maybe not.
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Maybe not. But maybe. But maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's a really great
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point in that, too, because part of the journey of ethics is really a journey.
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It's like discovering where those are. And, you know, the wider,
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broader perspective will say, you know, ethics can vary depending on cultures,
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all kinds of things. And that's true.
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But it's also okay to have your center, your core, as long as you have space
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for other people's center and core. And I think that's what you just said.
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And that, by the way, if anyone's out there serving in D.C. right now, that's helpful.
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You know that that kind of respect because that leads to the really great dialogue
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that kind of puts things front and center and and ann marie
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that's exactly what the ethic alliance does is brings those conversations front
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and center you're not going to agree with everything and we don't at the tables
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because you know i know you're an educator because every time i go to the meeting
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we end up doing group work around a table,
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classic teacher thing right it is but but i think that's an important dialogue.
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So when it came to the transition into the Alliance and what the Alliance is
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up to today, how would you describe what's the Alliance up to today?
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And what are the hot ethical charges that are present in our city and beyond?
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You mentioned before that, you know, life is a journey, right?
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And if there's one thing I've learned from you, both as a friend and a coach
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and a colleague, it's that there's peaks and valleys in those journeys.
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And we tend to focus on the valleys when we're stuck. Yeah.
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And we're not always as cognizant about when we're standing at the peak.
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We tend to be in such a rush to get to the next peak. We forget to,
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A, just take in the moment and celebrate and internalize that as a really good thing,
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but also realizing I'm probably going to hit another valley before I can hit that next peak. Yes.
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And that has been really helpful, not only in the nonprofit space and in my
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career, but I think also in looking at business ethics.
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Businesses have changed over what will be 20 years, 2027. Yeah,
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that's a lot of change. It's a lot of change.
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When we started here in Omaha, it was right on the heels of the Enron scandal.
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And that was before, you know, they were in Omaha before they moved to Houston.
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But it still reverberated because those executives still remember golfing with
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their executives and the families going to church and the kids going to school
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together and all of these things. And then the scandal happens.
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And the executives go, wow, if this is drawing attention to them for this unethical
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behavior, what might it say about me by association? Correct.
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And there was a strong feeling of we don't want this to happen again. This is not who we are.
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This is not how the Omaha business community does business.
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And so, between Dr. Beverly Crocker, who's a professor of ethics,
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she's our founder, and David Brown at the time at the chamber, and Dr.
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Anthony Hendrickson, who's still the dean of the College of Business at Creighton,
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and Jim Haggerty at the Better Business Bureau as the president.
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You know, they got together with business leaders and they said,
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well, how do we prevent this from happening again?
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They came to realize there's internal organizational controls,
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whether they're followed or not, a little different story. Right.
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State and federal regs serve as controls, but there's nothing that shapes how
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we hold each other accountable.
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And thus the Alliance was born to fill that gap, to fill that community of ethical practice.
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And so when we first started 20 years ago, For example, technology.
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Technology was a support function.
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It helped the business run. Now let's fast forward 20 years,
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and technology may be the business.
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Technology is permeating through the business.
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And even more than that, AI and machine learning are starting to make decisions
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sometimes for businesses.
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As we move in the AI space from that generative creative to the agentic.
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Good example, when we do training on AI ethics, we use war games as a film.
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40 years old, and people don't realize how old it is.
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But when there's a scene in there where Matthew Broderick's character is explaining
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to his friend's character how she's hearing the voice come out of the box, right?
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It's just interpreting electronic signals and that it's just a machine.
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It can't feel, but it's asking questions like a human, you know,
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that it's all programming right and that it's learning throughout the movie,
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and people like oh okay and we're like that's machine learning that's that's
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generative it's taking bits and pieces and learning from them and then we show
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2001 a space odyssey even older than war games i think 1969 yes.
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And there's a scene in there where Dave, the astronaut, is trying to get back into the space station.
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And Hal, the onboard AI system, doesn't want to let him and won't let him in.
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And the big tagline is, I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that.
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And then we turn to whoever's in our workshop. We say, that's agentic AI.
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That is artificial intelligence making a decision for you. And so.
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I don't know that it's necessarily the world has gotten more complex than,
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my husband and I go back and forth about that all the time. I think it's that
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we have access to so much more information to consider.
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Information that may not have been available to me as a regular citizen,
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but might've been available to a scientist. Now I have access to that.
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And so, you know, is it more complex? Maybe.
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Are the ethical decisions more complex? Maybe, but the ethical decision-making
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process is still pretty much unchanged.
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Yeah, and very much important because, you know, like what you just laid out
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is now we've actually have tech, which was a supportive role,
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taking a leadership role.
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And so that's really interesting, especially when we consider how that tech comes to be.
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And so I know a lot of times in the past, we've talked about some of the programming
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of the AI models, and this is a common thing.
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What are the ethics of what we're putting together? Because what you put into
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it, eventually you'll get out of it.
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Absolutely. And, you know, from our perspective and my perspective,
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it was how do you make sure that what is being programmed is balanced,
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is equal, is inclusive, is, you know, causes.
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No harm or as little harm as possible.
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Those are big questions to manage through. So I get where you and your husband
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would wrestle. Is it complex or is it, and part of it, it simplifies our world.
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And other parts of it, you're right, the access to information and how to use
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that information is way more complex and yet simplified if you learn the language.
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That is a great point, Mark. I mean, it's learning the language.
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I remember having a discussion with my husband and he got mad at the TV for
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something. Yeah. That was out there. We all do, right? Oh, the doggone media.
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Commercial or the news. Right, right. That's what it is. And.
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I think the suddenness and the sharpness just really startled me for a minute.
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And so I took a deep breath and I relied on my English and comms double major
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training. And I thought, okay, Don, turn the TV off. And he's like,
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what? I was like, just turn the TV off. Give me five minutes.
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Turn the TV off. And I said, you are getting mad at the TV, which is a medium.
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A medium is a channel, a way to transmit a message.
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I said, that's all medium is, or media, plural.
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Get mad at the radio. Don't get mad at the TV. Don't get mad at the DVD player.
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Those are all mediums, right?
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What you really want to get mad at is the outlets behind, you know,
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who's controlling the mediums? Who's controlling the message?
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And how are they doing that? I said, if you don't have the money to control
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the message, you have to get that message.
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And you have to get that money. So you're going to charge for ad space.
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I said, so it's a big, long process
00:18:22.212 --> 00:18:26.060
that by the time this commercial this newscast whatever gets to us yes,
00:18:26.919 --> 00:18:31.822
you're not mad at the tv the medium itself the media plural you're really mad
00:18:31.822 --> 00:18:38.366
at who's creating the message the channels the outlets through which that message is being distributed
00:18:38.790 --> 00:18:43.046
i said there's so much more to it and a lot of it comes down to money and access yes,
00:18:44.131 --> 00:18:47.492
and he sat for a while he got real quiet which is kind of how i always know
00:18:47.492 --> 00:18:51.916
he He gets, he's internalizing, he's processing. And I think that's very, very true.
00:18:52.800 --> 00:18:58.095
Whether it's the internet or radio or TV or whatever that is,
00:18:58.932 --> 00:19:04.058
we're not mad at that electronic device. We're mad at the message. Yes.
00:19:04.676 --> 00:19:09.972
And if we're not careful and don't spend a little time dissecting what that
00:19:09.972 --> 00:19:14.214
message is, there's so much misinformation out there.
00:19:15.384 --> 00:19:19.916
Seeing kids, whether they're grade school, high school, or college,
00:19:20.520 --> 00:19:24.064
take an information literacy course and really understand what makes a good,
00:19:24.064 --> 00:19:28.234
credible source, that is just so important in these days.
00:19:28.234 --> 00:19:34.304
And I think understanding that encourages ethical behavior because you're using
00:19:34.304 --> 00:19:38.554
that brain to think about the decisions you make before you act on them.
00:19:38.554 --> 00:19:42.514
And that's really what ethical behavior is. Yeah, and I love that there's two
00:19:42.514 --> 00:19:44.121
key things you just brought up there.
00:19:44.713 --> 00:19:48.824
I've always wondered what it would be like to be married to the executive director
00:19:48.824 --> 00:19:49.676
of the Ethical Alliance.
00:19:49.937 --> 00:19:53.854
Now I know it's turn the TV off. We're going to have a talk and we're going
00:19:53.854 --> 00:19:57.914
to get to the root cause of the ethical decisions that brought that commercial and who to be mad at.
00:19:58.254 --> 00:20:02.034
That's brilliant. Once a teacher, always a teacher. My husband has often said,
00:20:02.034 --> 00:20:03.624
will you stop being the teacher?
00:20:03.996 --> 00:20:10.289
I don't know. For all of you teachers out there, it is a calling. God bless you.
00:20:10.637 --> 00:20:14.753
Keep doing what you're doing because teachers are not necessarily,
00:20:15.043 --> 00:20:17.690
and this is what people really need to understand, teachers aren't teaching
00:20:18.055 --> 00:20:20.494
people what to think, they're teaching people how to think. Yes.
00:20:20.494 --> 00:20:21.474
That's an important distinction.
00:20:21.514 --> 00:20:24.354
Yes, that is such a big one. And I think that's really what we're doing here
00:20:24.354 --> 00:20:28.064
is we're not telling people, we're not judging people, we're not saying you
00:20:28.064 --> 00:20:30.061
have to do this or this is bad ethics.
00:20:30.641 --> 00:20:35.134
I mean, we'll offer commentary, but we're a neutral platform for discussions
00:20:35.134 --> 00:20:38.250
to take place, for dialogue and debate about ethical issues.
00:20:39.128 --> 00:20:44.405
Because we will guide conversations to bring out the components that go into the decision.
00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:46.947
But we're not going to stand up there and make a judgment and say,
00:20:47.255 --> 00:20:50.094
oh my gosh, company A is horrible.
00:20:50.604 --> 00:20:57.257
We might use company A as an example in a case study, but we're not going to come out and just,
00:20:58.127 --> 00:21:03.767
blast them as negatively. That's the beauty of what we do is we want to hear the sides.
00:21:03.767 --> 00:21:07.377
And I think that's so important as business owners. And I often thought a lot
00:21:07.377 --> 00:21:10.157
of the entrepreneurs that I
00:21:10.157 --> 00:21:14.467
work with, in my opinion, they should all be involved with Ethic Alliance.
00:21:14.467 --> 00:21:18.437
And I'm talking shops that could have one to 10 people, you know,
00:21:18.437 --> 00:21:20.695
just out there because of what you just said.
00:21:21.055 --> 00:21:24.428
It's not necessarily programming your ethics and what you should believe.
00:21:24.823 --> 00:21:30.377
It's just helping you understand what they are how they show up why they matter
00:21:30.377 --> 00:21:32.143
to business here's some examples
00:21:32.514 --> 00:21:37.057
here's some questions that get you to that deeper realm of thinking that helps
00:21:37.057 --> 00:21:39.877
you get a little bit more proactive and prescriptive
00:21:40.277 --> 00:21:44.757
about who you want to be because all of those things start to shape
00:21:45.197 --> 00:21:48.606
inside an organization what i would call the organizational culture.
00:21:49.857 --> 00:21:54.567
And that is, you know, if you would start when you're one and two people having
00:21:54.567 --> 00:21:57.510
these dialogues, thinking this through, doing these things,
00:21:58.056 --> 00:22:03.777
then by the time you're 500 or 1,000 or 1,200, you have a firm base that you've
00:22:03.777 --> 00:22:06.267
already built, and it makes it way more easier.
00:22:06.267 --> 00:22:10.901
So that's one of the values that I see of your work from an organizational standpoint.
00:22:11.261 --> 00:22:17.774
What other ways do organizations engage with the alliance to gain value for their organizations?
00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:21.237
Well, in addition to the signature events and the example, you know,
00:22:21.237 --> 00:22:23.682
that I just gave was one of them.
00:22:24.083 --> 00:22:27.067
We also have half-day symposiums called Ethics Space.
00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:32.857
They were full-day conferences, but we had to be a little bit realistic and,
00:22:32.857 --> 00:22:36.507
you know, think about, well, do we want to keep going with the full-day conference?
00:22:36.507 --> 00:22:39.074
Do we want to do a half-day and dive into content more?
00:22:39.376 --> 00:22:42.397
You know, just where are some of the economics of that.
00:22:42.737 --> 00:22:46.847
And we landed on, we need more time than an hour over lunch or breakfast,
00:22:47.337 --> 00:22:50.967
but a full day is often really difficult for people to get away.
00:22:50.967 --> 00:22:54.693
So this half-day symposium, we've been holding it at Creighton and,
00:22:55.023 --> 00:22:57.549
you know, it just gives us an opportunity to dive a little bit deeper.
00:22:58.263 --> 00:23:02.111
We have different kinds of our signature events.
00:23:02.111 --> 00:23:08.061
Some are very much targeted towards senior executives because leadership starts
00:23:08.061 --> 00:23:12.231
at the top, right? Everybody's looking to the president, the CEO,
00:23:12.691 --> 00:23:14.035
the senior C-suite team.
00:23:14.539 --> 00:23:17.591
Well, if they're going to act that way, I have permission to act that way.
00:23:17.591 --> 00:23:21.505
Or if they're going to act this way, then I'm expected to act this way too.
00:23:21.829 --> 00:23:26.711
We also have one coming up in August that is our summer ethics leadership luncheon.
00:23:26.711 --> 00:23:31.021
And this one's a little bit more targeted towards maybe the junior exec,
00:23:31.021 --> 00:23:34.371
mid-level management, and those who are just starting in their career,
00:23:34.371 --> 00:23:35.528
the young professionals.
00:23:36.751 --> 00:23:41.391
And the theme for this one coming up is choosing your own business ethics adventure.
00:23:41.791 --> 00:23:46.011
It's those kids' books that we read as a kid or, you know, for those of you
00:23:46.011 --> 00:23:52.121
who are maybe a little younger, heard on tape or DVD where you could choose the path you wanted.
00:23:52.633 --> 00:23:56.371
And so we've got an amazing team, Emily Allen, who's the executive director
00:23:56.371 --> 00:23:58.723
of Tech Nebraska. She's from the Nebraska Chamber.
00:23:59.454 --> 00:24:06.486
Nash Mapute, he's the CEO of QLI, and he's an immigrant, so he has a very unique
00:24:06.486 --> 00:24:10.241
story to tell. And Emily had a career change.
00:24:10.567 --> 00:24:15.196
And then Cesar Garcia, the executive director and president and CEO of Canopy
00:24:15.196 --> 00:24:21.505
South, who's working to do a lot of neighborhood and community change in South O.
00:24:21.813 --> 00:24:25.426
And so they're going to talk about their journeys and some of those ethical
00:24:25.426 --> 00:24:33.976
decisions and dilemmas they faced and how they process that and then moved forward in their careers.
00:24:33.976 --> 00:24:40.626
And all three of them are outstanding executives in their careers and have had
00:24:40.626 --> 00:24:44.616
to make difficult decisions for a variety of reasons.
00:24:44.616 --> 00:24:49.376
And so, you know, if anybody's struggling with, you know, what do I do and is
00:24:49.376 --> 00:24:50.725
this the right decision?
00:24:51.097 --> 00:24:55.202
I highly encourage them to come. It's at the Scott Conference Center on August 13th over lunch.
00:24:55.457 --> 00:24:57.836
So they can go to our website and register from there. Okay,
00:24:57.836 --> 00:25:01.436
great. Yeah. And we'll make sure that we get that in there so that they know
00:25:01.436 --> 00:25:05.326
a link or something to sign up because I think that's really important.
00:25:05.709 --> 00:25:08.956
And, you know, it's interesting. You said, you know, if you're struggling with
00:25:08.956 --> 00:25:12.106
those or if you relate with that journey, you know, this is for you.
00:25:12.466 --> 00:25:16.785
And I would go a little bit further. If you're not, it probably is for you.
00:25:17.057 --> 00:25:20.466
You might want to go check it out because a lot of these things we don't even
00:25:20.466 --> 00:25:25.746
know we're tripping down the path of an ethical decision until we start to really
00:25:25.746 --> 00:25:30.049
apply critical reasoning. and thinking and the pace of business these days.
00:25:30.339 --> 00:25:34.796
Yeah, Marie, I don't think people wake up and say, hey, I want to be evil today
00:25:34.796 --> 00:25:36.686
and wreck the Enron infrastructure.
00:25:37.121 --> 00:25:41.342
But they wake up with one decision that says, boy, I can make a lot of money today. That's fun.
00:25:41.906 --> 00:25:45.786
And it slides out of control. And so it's even the ones that say,
00:25:45.786 --> 00:25:46.925
well, that doesn't relate with me.
00:25:47.639 --> 00:25:50.526
Oh, please, go check it out and see if it does.
00:25:51.046 --> 00:25:54.276
Because sitting under the great communicators like you said,
00:25:54.276 --> 00:25:57.580
like Nash, you're going to gain something. big time.
00:25:58.202 --> 00:26:02.964
And sometimes the decision is a really easy decision. It's maybe just one you don't want to make.
00:26:02.964 --> 00:26:07.514
Yes. So in our signature events and in all of our workshops,
00:26:07.514 --> 00:26:10.314
too, we use two different models.
00:26:10.314 --> 00:26:13.628
One was developed by our founder, Bev Crocker, and then the other was,
00:26:14.041 --> 00:26:18.534
it's just a very simple quadrant model. When you look at, on a vertical axis,
00:26:18.534 --> 00:26:21.361
what's ethical, kind of being at the top, and what's unethical.
00:26:21.721 --> 00:26:26.563
And that intersects with a horizontal access with what's good for your organization
00:26:26.923 --> 00:26:29.004
and what's challenging for the organization.
00:26:29.738 --> 00:26:33.214
We would all love to be in the quadrant that says it's an ethical decision and
00:26:33.214 --> 00:26:35.073
it's great for the organization. Exactly.
00:26:35.311 --> 00:26:40.304
And much research bears that out, that businesses who act in a more ethical
00:26:40.304 --> 00:26:45.004
manner and have a reputation for being ethical tend to do better on the bottom
00:26:45.004 --> 00:26:47.175
financial line. Okay. I see that.
00:26:47.935 --> 00:26:54.204
But there are some times when doing the right thing, doing the ethical thing.
00:26:55.510 --> 00:26:59.954
Might pose a very large challenge for the organization, either financially or
00:26:59.954 --> 00:27:01.547
from a personnel standpoint.
00:27:02.722 --> 00:27:08.463
And then the decisions made, okay, there are also times, and I can think of
00:27:08.463 --> 00:27:14.343
this even in the development world, where somebody wants to make a donation,
00:27:14.343 --> 00:27:16.978
which would be good for the organization. Yes.
00:27:17.795 --> 00:27:23.642
But is it the ethical thing to do, to accept it from someone the organization believes is unethical?
00:27:24.588 --> 00:27:30.262
So again, there's not one right way. I mean, there's maybe a preferred way,
00:27:30.592 --> 00:27:32.839
but we have to be able to justify our decisions.
00:27:33.257 --> 00:27:38.579
Bev's model asks us to look at things that are high, wide, and far.
00:27:38.991 --> 00:27:42.886
So when we talk about what's the high part, what are our values,
00:27:43.049 --> 00:27:45.348
right? Are we taking the high road or not?
00:27:45.864 --> 00:27:50.613
Great. The wide is how many people, what's the scope of people and stakeholders
00:27:50.613 --> 00:27:52.803
who are going to be involved in this decision?
00:27:53.811 --> 00:27:57.623
And then far is what's the long-term impact of the decision?
00:27:58.767 --> 00:28:02.703
Again, no right or wrong answers. I mean, some people might say there are.
00:28:03.573 --> 00:28:07.727
But these decisions are both simple and complex. Yeah. So when we understand
00:28:07.727 --> 00:28:10.522
that and understand the rationale for the decision.
00:28:12.696 --> 00:28:16.077
Then we can be a bit more comfortable living with the decision.
00:28:16.077 --> 00:28:20.447
Yeah. And I think to your point, when you're just having a conversation about
00:28:20.447 --> 00:28:22.832
ethics, you're not talking the right or wrong way.
00:28:23.100 --> 00:28:26.917
That's not the point. In your organization, as you're using a model like that,
00:28:27.377 --> 00:28:28.312
it will become apparent.
00:28:28.596 --> 00:28:31.237
Sure. Which is the right one to go for that situation.
00:28:31.857 --> 00:28:34.007
So there is some outcomes that
00:28:34.007 --> 00:28:37.877
can be driven from the ethical thinking process, like you just outlined.
00:28:38.347 --> 00:28:42.567
It's just how to get there. And again, so when you think about the depth of
00:28:42.567 --> 00:28:46.677
what your organization, people within your organization, can gain through having
00:28:46.677 --> 00:28:50.917
these ethical conversations, one of the things that I find myself working on
00:28:50.917 --> 00:28:52.337
a lot with young executives.
00:28:52.337 --> 00:28:54.577
So these are people that are just promoted.
00:28:54.937 --> 00:28:59.710
And I would say even beyond like endo manager roles is what I call critical thinking.
00:29:00.029 --> 00:29:05.917
Now, just that, what Bev's model is for ethics, is the critical thinking model. Absolutely.
00:29:06.277 --> 00:29:10.407
And nobody thinks about, if I make this decision today, this is going to happen.
00:29:10.407 --> 00:29:15.255
You know, what's the downstream effect or the ripple effect of these decisions we make?
00:29:15.546 --> 00:29:20.247
And you'll save yourself so much of the mistakes that have made us so wise,
00:29:20.247 --> 00:29:24.897
Anne-Marie, over the years, if you just learn to think critically in those instances.
00:29:25.014 --> 00:29:29.367
And Mark, you are so right, because, you know, the models we use are fairly
00:29:29.367 --> 00:29:32.176
generic. I mean, they could be applied in any situation.
00:29:32.628 --> 00:29:36.957
Right? But we'll call senior execs like us, seasoned executives,
00:29:36.957 --> 00:29:39.715
seasoned professionals, right, like us. I like that. We...
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:46.314
We also know that there is probably, like, for example, I know engineering.
00:29:47.238 --> 00:29:51.540
They have a code of ethics. Yes. Professional fundraisers have a code of ethics.
00:29:52.114 --> 00:29:57.554
Attorneys have a code of ethics. So by profession, there are also codes of ethics
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:00.230
that will determine our behavior.
00:30:00.404 --> 00:30:08.827
One question we ask often in our agree or disagree exercise is ethics can be regulated. Mm-hmm.
00:30:09.886 --> 00:30:15.207
And that question, that statement always generates a lot of really good dialogue
00:30:15.207 --> 00:30:20.748
because people aren't thinking in the sense that if I don't follow,
00:30:21.084 --> 00:30:23.107
they may intuitively know if I don't follow,
00:30:23.830 --> 00:30:27.376
my lawyers, my attorney's code of ethics, I could be disbarred. Right.
00:30:27.887 --> 00:30:33.127
They know that, they've internalized it, but they don't think, oh, that's regulating.
00:30:34.320 --> 00:30:40.305
There is an external body, a state bar, who's regulating my behavior, my ethical behavior.
00:30:40.999 --> 00:30:44.244
And it's not a bad thing. You know, we're very clear to say,
00:30:44.383 --> 00:30:49.071
these aren't bad things, but ethics can be regulated. Yeah.
00:30:49.692 --> 00:30:54.147
And I think in the fear that the governing body, it's same with AI,
00:30:54.487 --> 00:30:57.140
who's creating it, the model, who's building the model.
00:30:57.360 --> 00:31:00.617
That we will get stuck under someone or something unethical.
00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:06.579
And we won't agree with the proposition or the value or the assumptions that went into that.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.707
Mark, that is so true because that's usually what people will bring up.
00:31:11.227 --> 00:31:16.167
You know, we might, in that same question, we always ask, okay, tell us why. Yeah.
00:31:16.757 --> 00:31:18.877
And somebody inevitably comes
00:31:18.877 --> 00:31:24.285
up with, well, sometimes laws are unethical. Yes. Yes, they are. Yes.
00:31:24.926 --> 00:31:27.047
And so what do you do in those cases?
00:31:28.438 --> 00:31:35.887
As a business leader, as a consumer, as a person, if you are up against a law
00:31:35.887 --> 00:31:37.489
that is clearly unethical,
00:31:38.317 --> 00:31:45.968
how do you maintain compliance to still be able to operate if you're a business leader? Yep.
00:31:46.577 --> 00:31:51.993
But how do you reconcile that with your values? Mm-hmm.
00:31:52.825 --> 00:31:57.199
And again, we don't have great answers because every situation is so distinct
00:31:57.199 --> 00:32:00.911
and so unique, but we can guide them with questions. Yeah.
00:32:01.219 --> 00:32:06.649
And I think it's the models that you share. It's the establishment of the patterns
00:32:06.649 --> 00:32:10.099
of thinking that help people gain their own clarity in those things.
00:32:10.594 --> 00:32:15.272
And so oftentimes when we hear, well, there's no ethics, there's no right or wrong.
00:32:15.656 --> 00:32:19.939
Well, in the model, you don't pin it to that yet.
00:32:20.239 --> 00:32:24.489
But there will be, because each one of us will have to make sure that we're
00:32:24.489 --> 00:32:28.531
going through a process to get to what we consider ethical outcomes.
00:32:28.885 --> 00:32:33.511
Generally speaking, they're going to align with other ethical decisions.
00:32:33.795 --> 00:32:38.139
Sometimes they're going to look a little different. And we see that happening
00:32:38.139 --> 00:32:42.480
all the time when there are groups of people maybe protesting something because
00:32:42.683 --> 00:32:46.619
the law itself doesn't seem ethical or there's a variation on it.
00:32:47.304 --> 00:32:50.899
That's the beauty of it. Now, there is ways to do it, but without the models
00:32:50.899 --> 00:32:55.369
that the Ethic Alliance brings to the forefront, it's hard to process that.
00:32:55.369 --> 00:32:59.479
And so then what we do is we typically go to Camp A or Camp B.
00:32:59.979 --> 00:33:02.215
Sometimes there's a Camp C. Mostly it's A or B.
00:33:03.159 --> 00:33:07.259
And then we just pitch our tent and we just stay there. And we stop listening
00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:09.936
and we stop dialoguing and we shut down.
00:33:10.284 --> 00:33:15.574
Almost like we constrict. Our muscles constrict like a wound.
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:22.058
And in that position, we're not able to advance to the best of what humanity can be.
00:33:22.586 --> 00:33:28.189
We did a Mind Candy event last fall, and the topic was second chance ethics.
00:33:28.189 --> 00:33:35.159
So looking at people who immigrated into the country and kind of starting over,
00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:40.029
or people who have been released from incarceration after a long time,
00:33:40.029 --> 00:33:43.140
or maybe someone who is recovering from addiction.
00:33:43.772 --> 00:33:49.529
And these are all people who need a little extra thought and care to how to
00:33:49.529 --> 00:33:52.027
move through into that second chance.
00:33:52.701 --> 00:33:57.655
And while I think I'm pretty safe in saying the vast majority of people in the
00:33:57.655 --> 00:34:01.983
room felt, yes, absolutely, as businesses, we have an ethical responsibility,
00:34:02.477 --> 00:34:06.470
to support people who need a second chance. Yes. Okay.
00:34:07.112 --> 00:34:11.708
But there were some people in the room who were very honest about,
00:34:12.073 --> 00:34:18.156
but sometimes these second chances and putting in accommodations for these things cost money.
00:34:19.207 --> 00:34:25.070
That a small business might not have, whereas a large business might be able to better afford it.
00:34:25.674 --> 00:34:34.038
And so what do I do if this is going to cost more money than I really can afford to spend?
00:34:34.755 --> 00:34:39.155
And again dialogue right great dialogue the person who said it,
00:34:39.922 --> 00:34:45.385
was absolutely right this is a consideration yeah it has to be part of the model
00:34:45.765 --> 00:34:47.999
right part of the models look at the economics yeah,
00:34:48.635 --> 00:34:53.965
so i'm always appreciative though in the moment i'm like okay you know,
00:34:54.515 --> 00:34:58.815
how are we going to navigate this but i do think that people who have come to
00:34:58.815 --> 00:35:03.865
our events to our workshops because We do individual workshops for companies.
00:35:03.865 --> 00:35:06.784
We can custom design those. We have some out of the box ones.
00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:12.776
People who know about us and experience a workshop or an event come to see that
00:35:12.776 --> 00:35:14.483
we're not there to judge.
00:35:14.912 --> 00:35:19.354
We're there to help elevate and inspire.
00:35:19.523 --> 00:35:23.926
And that's the first part of our mission is to elevate and inspire leaders and
00:35:23.926 --> 00:35:29.564
organizations and communities through positive and practical business ethics education.
00:35:29.948 --> 00:35:33.716
We often joke, you know, we're not going to be talking about Aristotelian ethics.
00:35:33.716 --> 00:35:37.295
We're not going to be quoting Socrates and drinking hemlock and those kinds of things.
00:35:37.643 --> 00:35:42.656
We're here to be able to give you some very simple tips,
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:49.076
but to have a really rich, deep dialogue that you can take away and have with
00:35:49.076 --> 00:35:53.525
your manager, have with your team, have with whoever you need to have this with.
00:35:54.355 --> 00:35:57.739
That's the practical piece. And the positive is we're not judging.
00:35:58.547 --> 00:36:01.003
You know, we're not going to go, shame on you. Right.
00:36:02.070 --> 00:36:07.910
It's truly a learning organization that's safe, that benefits the organization
00:36:07.910 --> 00:36:16.556
in ways that go well beyond the financial metrics in terms of investment in this kind of stuff.
00:36:17.201 --> 00:36:19.843
One decision can save you millions. Yes.
00:36:21.027 --> 00:36:27.796
Or cost you millions. Or cost you millions, yes. And so that's part of the beauty of this thing.
00:36:28.092 --> 00:36:31.807
I also know this, Amber, you have a lot of organizations who are very dedicated.
00:36:32.470 --> 00:36:36.520
I became involved through my organization of the past, Signature Performance.
00:36:36.520 --> 00:36:42.190
I'm really grateful that they invested in me to be able to serve with you and in the alliance.
00:36:42.730 --> 00:36:45.847
And they're still very committed to ethical leadership in the city.
00:36:46.184 --> 00:36:50.693
And so when I think about that, and I think, how do companies.
00:36:51.650 --> 00:36:58.392
Maybe that aren't in, so I know it seemed to me like most of the major companies
00:36:58.746 --> 00:37:01.637
have a part or stake in our training.
00:37:01.938 --> 00:37:05.960
But how do people who maybe this is the first time they've ever heard about
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.920
the Business Ethic Alliance in Omaha, which I do think is Omaha's strategic
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.780
advantage, how do they get involved?
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:17.830
What would you recommend as a pathway to connect and get involved and maybe
00:37:17.830 --> 00:37:19.993
even support the Ethic Alliance?
00:37:20.352 --> 00:37:22.953
There are several ways from a very,
00:37:23.674 --> 00:37:26.783
high-level way, I can think of Google.
00:37:27.340 --> 00:37:33.352
Google has been recently much more involved. And the person our Google contact
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:34.855
was a friend of a board member.
00:37:35.513 --> 00:37:39.042
Yes. And we had conversations. And they started out by, hey,
00:37:39.042 --> 00:37:43.092
I think I can provide, you know, AI is really coming about. I think we can get
00:37:43.092 --> 00:37:47.141
somebody from our AI department to come and speak. I'm like, phenomenal.
00:37:47.553 --> 00:37:49.416
And it was a hugely successful event.
00:37:49.857 --> 00:37:53.882
And then we kept building that relationship. Hey, why don't you come to this?
00:37:54.623 --> 00:37:58.472
Would you be interested in helping with that? And then recently they became
00:37:58.472 --> 00:38:03.049
a mission driver, which is one of the highest levels for an organization to be able to support.
00:38:03.485 --> 00:38:05.162
Now, does everybody agree?
00:38:06.082 --> 00:38:11.031
If you look at the list of our mission drivers, and there's about 17 or 18,
00:38:11.496 --> 00:38:15.372
you may look at that list and go, yeah, but I know something about that organization.
00:38:15.372 --> 00:38:18.061
And they made a decision that maybe wasn't the most ethical.
00:38:18.468 --> 00:38:20.662
Of course, nobody's perfect.
00:38:21.142 --> 00:38:24.962
No organization is perfect, but have they learned from that?
00:38:24.962 --> 00:38:31.596
Have they made a commitment to move from that place to become a more ethical?
00:38:31.834 --> 00:38:35.402
And I would look at all of those and say, yes, we're working with one of the
00:38:35.402 --> 00:38:41.942
organizations right now that has been in the news lately and has had some very
00:38:41.942 --> 00:38:44.428
challenging decisions to make.
00:38:44.788 --> 00:38:51.872
But in talking with that senior leader, came to understand so much more about
00:38:51.872 --> 00:38:55.718
the decisions that were being made behind the scenes that,
00:38:56.785 --> 00:39:00.003
I'll say people outside the organization won't know about.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.393
So, I mean, that's one way. Another way is to attend the signature events.
00:39:06.393 --> 00:39:08.746
Those are the, you know, generally open to the community.
00:39:09.787 --> 00:39:15.513
We'll try to bring in decision makers and leaders from around the Omaha and
00:39:15.513 --> 00:39:17.130
kind of surrounding areas.
00:39:17.298 --> 00:39:22.781
Maybe we'll bring in a national speaker if we can get some collaboration going on that.
00:39:25.003 --> 00:39:28.253
And see what those discussions are all about. They were one of the first,
00:39:28.253 --> 00:39:32.523
you mentioned this before, Mark, but going to a Business Ethics Alliance luncheon
00:39:32.523 --> 00:39:36.813
was one of the first networking opportunities I had.
00:39:36.813 --> 00:39:41.973
And I happened to sit down next to a leader in the community who was working
00:39:41.973 --> 00:39:44.242
at a different place than I was.
00:39:44.925 --> 00:39:47.273
We exchanged business cards and on the back of business cards,
00:39:47.273 --> 00:39:49.963
I have a tendency to say, oh, I met them at this.
00:39:51.322 --> 00:39:56.573
And when I joined the Business Ethics Alliance, I was looking through my cards.
00:39:56.573 --> 00:39:58.457
What am I going to bring to the office? Keep home.
00:39:59.008 --> 00:40:03.400
And I pulled this card out and it struck me because it said, met at a BEA luncheon.
00:40:04.182 --> 00:40:09.474
Well, the person was, at the time, our vice board chair.
00:40:09.631 --> 00:40:15.500
Okay she's now our our board chair yes and has become along the way a dear friend
00:40:15.918 --> 00:40:18.833
but when i pulled that out and showed it her i mean we had the biggest laugh
00:40:18.833 --> 00:40:24.514
because it's like who knew 10 years ago 12 years ago this would lead to,
00:40:25.198 --> 00:40:31.223
our work together formally with the bea and i i think another way is to people
00:40:31.223 --> 00:40:39.705
can volunteer we have several um folks who are are multi-time volunteers and,
00:40:40.563 --> 00:40:45.133
maybe they're retired or they're starting out with their own business and they
00:40:45.133 --> 00:40:46.577
don't always have the money to,
00:40:47.567 --> 00:40:51.063
to put out for a ticket and so we're like yeah sometimes we need help you know
00:40:51.063 --> 00:40:53.043
guiding people and running for
00:40:53.043 --> 00:40:58.149
supplies or this so volunteer and you know well you can attend for free,
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:03.216
because we just want people to be part of that conversation the more people,
00:41:03.842 --> 00:41:05.283
that are part of the conversation,
00:41:06.223 --> 00:41:14.689
and can spread the word about what we're doing that's really important and and trust integrity.
00:41:15.879 --> 00:41:22.997
And ethical behavior, they underpin all business decisions, whether the decision
00:41:22.997 --> 00:41:30.049
comes out of a corporate environment, a nonprofit environment, a governmental agency.
00:41:30.767 --> 00:41:34.697
It's how you do business. Again, going back to that how you think,
00:41:35.068 --> 00:41:40.634
not what you think. It's not what your tax status is. It's how are you living,
00:41:41.437 --> 00:41:44.277
and showing ethical business practices.
00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:49.257
Yeah, that's so great. Okay. Well, that's a lot of great ways to plug in.
00:41:49.257 --> 00:41:52.249
So even if you're a solopreneur, even if you're looking to network,
00:41:52.797 --> 00:41:56.537
I'm telling you what, when I've been at these events, I have met some wonderful
00:41:56.537 --> 00:41:59.819
people, really smart in what they do, all very different.
00:42:00.115 --> 00:42:03.097
So you have the market on the most diverse group of people.
00:42:03.677 --> 00:42:06.112
I mean, it's like, whoa, what do you do?
00:42:06.737 --> 00:42:11.867
But see, you are bringing together an interesting group of people who have an
00:42:11.867 --> 00:42:14.880
interest in doing things, and I would just say the right way,
00:42:15.049 --> 00:42:19.577
with the model and frameworks that you share, the ways to enlighten our thinking.
00:42:19.577 --> 00:42:24.337
I always say this, I say, your business will never outgrow your current level of thinking.
00:42:24.937 --> 00:42:29.037
So wherever you're at, that's where your business is stuck. Some of that's good,
00:42:29.620 --> 00:42:32.717
but don't get complacent because you need to keep growing.
00:42:32.717 --> 00:42:36.707
And one of the ways to do that is to invest in organizations like the Business
00:42:36.707 --> 00:42:41.487
Ethic Alliance and continue to expand your thinking and what you know about
00:42:41.487 --> 00:42:43.735
yourself and about what's possible.
00:42:44.771 --> 00:42:48.637
So here's a million dollar question now, because I know that you also studied
00:42:48.637 --> 00:42:52.694
leadership a lot and I like to talk about leadership. So.
00:42:54.744 --> 00:43:00.119
What is the leader of tomorrow look like? What are you seeing in the horizon?
00:43:01.737 --> 00:43:10.115
I would love to say that the leader of tomorrow learns from the legacy that
00:43:10.283 --> 00:43:12.431
the leaders of today are leaving.
00:43:13.469 --> 00:43:18.394
I am classic Gen X. I mean, I can joke all I want about drinking from the garden
00:43:18.394 --> 00:43:22.734
hose and I taught my kids the big whatever with the W on the forehead.
00:43:24.041 --> 00:43:29.654
But our generation does tend to be sandwiched between a lot of existing leaders
00:43:29.654 --> 00:43:30.808
who have been around, right?
00:43:31.197 --> 00:43:35.374
And the millennials and the Gen Zs and my kids are coming up as Gen Alphas.
00:43:35.374 --> 00:43:42.214
And so I'm very cognizant about how am I building that bridge so that those
00:43:42.214 --> 00:43:45.704
leaders of today who are kind of slowly making their way across that bridge
00:43:45.704 --> 00:43:48.654
and the generational transfer of wealth is slowly starting to happen.
00:43:49.852 --> 00:43:55.424
So are we leaving the right ethical legacies for those who are coming behind
00:43:55.424 --> 00:43:57.811
last summer's ethics luncheon,
00:43:58.483 --> 00:44:01.844
brought together Jim Herter, the president of the Omaha market from Security
00:44:01.844 --> 00:44:06.854
National Bank, Willie Thiessen, who, you know, just needs no explanation if you live in Omaha,
00:44:07.434 --> 00:44:10.750
and Andy Hoig, the publisher of the Midlands Business Journal,
00:44:11.111 --> 00:44:15.514
and they shared about where they received their training in ethics,
00:44:15.894 --> 00:44:20.370
their beliefs in ethics from, and what they want to leave for those behind.
00:44:21.187 --> 00:44:26.492
And so I think that would be something that really sticks out to me,
00:44:26.933 --> 00:44:31.066
first and foremost, and I'm probably very influenced, obviously, by the Alliance. Right.
00:44:31.316 --> 00:44:37.336
Personally, I would love to see leaders in the future that are always learning. Okay.
00:44:37.963 --> 00:44:42.894
Because I think when we stop learning, we don't see trends, we don't see patterns,
00:44:42.894 --> 00:44:48.673
we don't see others who are right in front of us. So that as an educator is huge for me.
00:44:49.355 --> 00:44:54.974
And I would say also reflective leaders. Leaders who are not afraid to really
00:44:54.974 --> 00:44:59.974
look deep and hard inside themselves about what makes them tick.
00:45:00.314 --> 00:45:05.255
Sometimes as human beings, especially when we feel really strong emotions,
00:45:05.957 --> 00:45:10.979
we want to stop that strong emotion feeling because it's hard and it's scary and it's unknown.
00:45:11.971 --> 00:45:17.049
That's the time when we really need to just take a deep breath and a great glass,
00:45:17.049 --> 00:45:21.851
a cup of tea or a glass of wine or a beer, whatever it is, a chocolate bar, I don't care,
00:45:22.615 --> 00:45:27.571
and sit with that for a moment and think what's going on and how am I reacting,
00:45:28.094 --> 00:45:31.403
and how am I going to move forward? Yes.
00:45:31.623 --> 00:45:37.369
I think those are some very internally driven skills that we're not emphasizing
00:45:37.369 --> 00:45:40.769
enough. We put a lot of focus on external skills. Can you weld this?
00:45:40.769 --> 00:45:45.405
Can you program that? Can you cut this? Can you sell that?
00:45:46.028 --> 00:45:49.383
Those are good. But if you don't understand who you are as a leader,
00:45:50.122 --> 00:45:52.078
and if you're not true and authentic.
00:45:53.085 --> 00:45:55.993
I think you get leaders who are going to waffle back and forth,
00:45:56.562 --> 00:46:00.309
and trust is going to erode, and integrity will erode.
00:46:00.588 --> 00:46:04.711
Yeah. Yeah. Once trust goes, integrity goes, momentum stops.
00:46:04.711 --> 00:46:08.311
Yeah. And once you lose momentum, you have a whole host of problems you never
00:46:08.311 --> 00:46:12.011
knew you were going to have. Yeah. Because I think momentum solves about 80%
00:46:12.011 --> 00:46:15.606
of our problems. Yeah. If we can stay there. And the catalyst to that,
00:46:15.989 --> 00:46:18.769
I think, Anne-Marie, is what you said. It's always learning.
00:46:19.134 --> 00:46:21.711
It's expanding our thinking. Spoken like a true coach.
00:46:22.471 --> 00:46:27.781
Well done. I think I learned from you, so I'm going to put that back right on
00:46:27.781 --> 00:46:31.611
you is, you know, you really taught me about those peaks and those valleys.
00:46:32.611 --> 00:46:36.811
That when you're at a peak, take some time, reflect on it, understand what it
00:46:36.811 --> 00:46:42.806
is that got you there, what it's like to be here, and then look to your momentum.
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:44.925
It's going to take you down into a valley.
00:46:45.465 --> 00:46:48.791
And what is that experience going to be like? And how are you going to,
00:46:48.791 --> 00:46:52.851
when you hit that valley floor, how are you going to start climbing back up
00:46:52.851 --> 00:46:55.635
into that peak again. What are you going to do differently than you did?
00:46:56.491 --> 00:47:01.092
That's probably one of the most valuable things I learned in all of our many, many, many talks, Mark.
00:47:01.811 --> 00:47:04.891
I'm really grateful for that. Well, I'm glad because so many leaders get stuck
00:47:04.891 --> 00:47:07.414
in that valley and end up pitching a tent.
00:47:07.652 --> 00:47:12.271
Sometimes they build a village. I've seen high rises built down there and I'm
00:47:12.311 --> 00:47:14.611
like, is this really real? Do you really want to stay here?
00:47:15.191 --> 00:47:20.171
And then to start to shift that reality back to the climb is is very very helpful
00:47:20.171 --> 00:47:24.101
for so many and and with the accumulated wisdom of having lived in that valley
00:47:24.101 --> 00:47:25.808
and it stinks nobody likes it
00:47:26.133 --> 00:47:30.211
right and so but that wisdom you get from it oh that's going to sustain you
00:47:30.211 --> 00:47:31.731
yeah for a long long time so
00:47:32.071 --> 00:47:34.456
yeah yeah that that difference between
00:47:34.846 --> 00:47:38.612
data and information and knowledge and wisdom yes.
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:43.830
They are different. Yes. And what you do with each of those,
00:47:43.830 --> 00:47:46.833
I think, really can help shape those next steps as well.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:49.580
Yeah. Personally, I'm a big fan of the wisdom foe. Yeah.
00:47:49.922 --> 00:47:53.500
Yeah. Well, Anne-Marie, this has been an excellent conversation.
00:47:53.500 --> 00:47:56.336
Thank you so much for being so generous with your time.
00:47:56.533 --> 00:48:00.640
Thank you for your work in our community. And on behalf of the entrepreneurs
00:48:00.640 --> 00:48:02.220
I represent and everybody else, thank you.
00:48:02.540 --> 00:48:07.820
You make Omaha better. I do think Omaha's secret sauce is the fact that we have
00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:11.570
organizations like the Business Ethic Alliance who are willing to have these
00:48:11.570 --> 00:48:14.560
difficult conversations to make us a little uncomfortable.
00:48:14.980 --> 00:48:17.169
Because if we can learn to be uncomfortable around each other,
00:48:17.407 --> 00:48:21.499
there's nothing we can't do together. That's right. And I just so applaud you
00:48:21.621 --> 00:48:25.130
in your work and bringing that about. So thank you. And thank you for your time
00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:26.520
today. It's my pleasure.
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:30.940
We couldn't do our work without people like you, without the Omaha community,
00:48:30.940 --> 00:48:33.347
without people who are brave enough.
00:48:34.140 --> 00:48:36.990
And yes, I did this on purpose. Our values are brave, engaged,
00:48:36.990 --> 00:48:40.342
and authentic. And coincidentally, they start with B, E, and A,
00:48:40.528 --> 00:48:41.811
Business Ethics Alliance.
00:48:43.020 --> 00:48:46.240
We need to be brave. We need to show moral courage. And it's not easy.
00:48:46.540 --> 00:48:47.506
It makes us uncomfortable.
00:48:47.889 --> 00:48:52.310
We need to be engaged with each other. And we need to stay true to our authentic
00:48:52.310 --> 00:48:53.920
selves. We know what our mission is.
00:48:54.541 --> 00:48:57.990
And we know that it takes all kinds to help live that mission.
00:48:57.990 --> 00:49:03.127
So, you know, if we can spread that message in addition to our official mission,
00:49:03.661 --> 00:49:04.932
boy, we'll be having a good day.
00:49:05.310 --> 00:49:09.100
We'll be having a good day. All right. Well, everyone, thank you for listening in.
00:49:09.100 --> 00:49:12.860
And Anne-Marie, thank you so much. Thank you, Mark. And as we sign off,
00:49:12.860 --> 00:49:17.410
just remember that each and every one of you, if you take the time to really
00:49:17.410 --> 00:49:21.598
calculate your ethics, to think about your leadership, maybe even ask the question,
00:49:21.877 --> 00:49:23.720
what's it like to be on the other side of me?
00:49:23.720 --> 00:49:27.403
Each and every one of you can learn to elevate your moments.
00:49:27.693 --> 00:49:28.657
Thanks, everyone. Thank you.