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Welcome to Transformative Principle.
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This is Jethro Jones.
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I'm pulling some old stuff out of the vault for you today.
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Stuff that is still relevant, even though I recorded it a while ago for the Transformative Leadership Summit.
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Were you a listener when I did those?
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'cause they were pretty awesome.
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So today's episode is from that vault.
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I hope you enjoy it.
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I haven't released these publicly and.
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Listening to them.
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Again, I cannot believe how relevant they are.
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So good stuff, and I hope you enjoy it.
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Thanks so much for listening to Transformative Principle.
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I'm really excited to welcome Amy Fast to the Transformative Leadership Summit.
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This is going to be an awesome interview because she's going to talk about how to, um, get students' feedback and actually do something with it
instead of just giving lip service to the idea of student feedback as, uh, Bob Dylan mentioned in the other Leadership Summit interview that we did.
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So this is really exciting, and I'm stoked to talk to Amy.
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She was on the podcast a little while ago, and you can get more information about what she's been doing.
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But let's start With thanking you, Amy, for being here.
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Appreciate it.
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Thanks for having me.
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And you're- I'm glad to be here … you're currently a, uh, assistant principal in McMinnville, Oregon, right?
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Correct, yes, I am.
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Good.
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And, uh, you've gone through this process of, uh, surveying your students and getting information from them, and let's start with why it's so important to get your students' voice and feedback on what's going on.
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Absolutely.
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Well, student voice has always been, um, something I've been pretty passionate about.
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Um, I didn't realize that I'd always been passionate about it until I went back and looked at my master's thesis and some of the papers that I wrote for my undergrad, and it was just kind of a theme that was strung throughout.
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But, um, as a first-year assistant principal, I didn't, um, anticipate being able to dive into student voice, uh, quite so much, uh, my first year.
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And what ended up happening was that there was, um, a, a shooting at a college in Roseburg, Oregon, which is, uh, you know, pretty close
to home when, when, uh, we're living in McMinnville, Oregon, and it was heartbreaking for students, and it was heartbreaking for staff.
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And I, uh, remember going to my admin team, uh, shortly after and said, "You know, there's gotta be something that we can do to kind of get on top of this issue that is proactive and, and not reactive."
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You know, more security measures or, um, or trainings around, uh, school safety.
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And, and, you know, students who are, who are doing okay, you know, don't, don't do these things, basically.
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And so a proactive measure would be to find out how our students are doing, and what better way to find out how your stu- students are doing than to ask them.
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I'd read, um, articles in the Marshall Memo that talked about, you know, putting student pictures up on the wall in the staff room, and, and staff members
who know those students and feel connected to them put stickers on them so then you can see which students have connections to staff and which don't.
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But there, there are a few issues with that strategy.
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And one, when you're a large, comprehensive high school with over 2,100 students, that's just really time-consuming, so that's, um, challenging.
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And two, that's, that's coming from the teacher's perspective.
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So there may be people that I feel I'm connected with, but we'll get a more accurate measure of that connection if I actually go to the students themselves and ask, "Are you feeling that connection?"
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So, um, the, the, the impetus for the student survey started with safety.
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We just wanted to know how our, our students were doing, and from there, we realized we wanted to ask a few more questions, and while we're at it, we
could find out a little bit about, um, you know, academics and their, their per- post-secondary hope, you know, for the future and that sort of thing.
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So, um, that's how it started, and I can't remember the other part of your question.
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That's okay.
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We'll get to that in a second 'cause you gave- Okay … so much good information there.
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Okay.
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Um, so first of all, it's great that, that, that this started from a student safety perspective, and really feeling vulnerable from a
tragedy that every time something like that happens, we all in education feel that, and it's especially scary when it's close to home.
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And what a great response for you to see that and say, "Let's make sure our kids are okay- Right … and see how they're feeling." So I just wanna commend you on that 'cause that's, that's important to be able to do that, and then to actually take action.
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We all want- Yeah.
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Thank you … to make sure our kids are okay, but actually- Mm-hmm
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taking action is the really cool part of that.
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Yeah.
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So, um, when you have student voice, then you can start to get an idea of what they care about.
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And you want to know a couple of things.
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First, you want to know how they're feeling.
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Two, you want to know if they felt connections with- Mm-hmm … others.
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And three, you want to know about what their plans were.
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And, um, knowing all of those things really has an impact.
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Talk about the impact that that has when you actually know the responses to those queries.
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I mean, well, gosh, it's everything, right?
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Because the- we're in this business for students.
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So if, if we find out the answers to those questions, then we have a pretty clear roadmap for moving forward.
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Um, and you know, I talk a lot, I've talked a lot with staff since we've rolled out the survey about, um, perception versus reality.
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You know, and it might be true that staff go out of their way to be connected to students, or it might be, um, true that we have all of these practices in place to make sure students feel worthwhile and that they are treated equally.
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But it doesn't really matter if that's not students' perception.
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So regardless of our efforts, their perception is their reality.
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And so we want them to be enjoying school and feeling like they're challenged in school and feeling like school is worthwhile and setting them up on a trajectory for greatness in the future.
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And so, um, it's, it's all about how the students are perceiving their education and not so much the kind of education we're giving them.
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So, so knowing that that perception is reality, we took what they said and regarded it as fact, um, and moved forward.
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And it was amazing how, how it really resonated with the staff when you can actually put, um, voice to what the students' experiences are in
your building and you're not just trying to, um, guess at what those might be and throw arrows in the dark trying to tackle those problems.
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It becomes … There's a, there's a much greater sense of urgency around the issues when you hear the students' voices themselves rising to the surface.
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Uh, and, and it's, it's really hitting the mark because you can look at a data point about, you know, regarding an English or a math test and try to analyze why that data point might be happening.
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But you, it's, it's nearly impossible to, to say, you know, how is that student's, um, perceived experience in school impacting that?
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Or how is their level of hopefulness impacting that?
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Or how is their connection with their peers or other staff members impacting that?
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So it just gives a, a lot more multidimensional picture of what's happening in a school, and it allows you to drill down to the, the kind
of real work that needs to happen in order to make sure that students are able to attend to the academic piece and invest in it Fascinating.
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Um, it, it's awesome that you can see all that.
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And one of the things that I think we struggle with in education is being able to actually quantify how many kids are feeling a certain way, you know?
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Right.
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Um, one of my favorite things to, to think about is, um, parents of l- parents who have low incomes, um, in schools that are, you know, Title I schools, and people saying, "Well, these parents don't care," or, "These parents don't…
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These, they work too much," or whatever.
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And the reality is we say that 'cause we think we know the answer, but we really don't- Yeah, right … in most cases.
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And- Right … we may have heard that one person told us they work too much, and that's, that then becomes the story for everybody else.
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Right.
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And what you're doing is making sure that it's not the story for everybody else, that everybody gets to tell their own story.
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Correct.
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Correct, and that was the integral part of this survey, too, is not just collecting the numbers, but collecting the actual thoughts and feelings of students as well, which was the bulk of the work that we did when analyzing the results.
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Yeah, and I just love the, the story of that.
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So let's talk a little bit about that process.
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So the, the shooting happened, you got together with the admin team, and then what's the next step in preparing to get the student voices?
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So we actually… I work with some fantastic people, students, staff, uh, admin.
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A- and so it wasn't… When you asked, you know, how did I, how did we get buy-in for this, it wasn't, I didn't even, I guess I didn't even think at the time we need buy-in for this.
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We just we all thought it was a great idea.
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Let's do it.
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Um, so the, the part that I think was fantastic but also was probably the most challenging part of all of this is that myself and the principal
went into 75 English Language Arts classrooms, which took us three weeks, over three weeks to do, and, uh, talked to each class for 15 minutes.
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And he basically told, um- his own, he kind of made himself vulnerable in front of the students and told how his own personal, uh, journey had some heartache
and trauma involved, and how it was his connections with his friends in school and his connections with the teachers that helped him get through it.
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And then I, I did a little diddy about the research on, um, hopefulness and wellbeing and engagement being better predictors of post-secondary success than your GPA or your SAT scores or, um, any of those
academic measures, and how regardless of that fact, the most important thing to us is that we wanted their experience to be great, and we wanted to know that they were okay, and that we really did care.
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And we said, "You know, we set, we sit as adults in back rooms having meetings about you guys all the time, trying to figure out how you're doing, but we never ask you how you're doing.
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So this is your chance to really own your education, and tell us what we need to do differently, and we'll, we will do our best to do right by you.
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And we're all kind of trying to navigate this, um, as we go, and we don't know what it's gonna look like.
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But, um, we promise we will read every comment, and we, uh, will not punish you for comments that, uh, we may not like.
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And while it will not be anonymous, it will be confidential, so we won't share it with, um, your actual name with anyone outside the admin team."
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Uh, and, you know, students were kind of moved by that.
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I had a student stop me in the hall and say, "You're Miss Fast, right?" And I said, "Yeah." And she goes, "I just wanna tell you that we think it's great
that you guys are trying to figure out how we feel at this school, because we didn't even realize the admin remembered what it was like to be teenagers.
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So the fact that you know it's hard, and that you care, and you wanna hear about that, uh, we, we dig that.
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We think it's pretty cool." And so, uh, we had a lot of great feedback from students.
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And actually, our results on the student survey, because, you know, the Student Gallup poll does a national survey, and th- they measure similar things, and it, it was
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Our numbers were pretty high in McMinnville.
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And so that was, it was a point, a place where we could really celebrate our own successes, but also, um, pinpoint areas and places where we could really grow, um, with our student body, so.
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Yeah, so it would've been really easy for you to just put that on the top of the survey, what the principal said and what you said.
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Why did you go to each individual classroom?
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Well, you know- For, I think our admin team, uh, is pretty good at really, um, trying to walk the walk.
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So trying, trying to be teachers and trying to be with students, and so that philosophy always guides us.
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But I, you know, as a first-year assistant principal, they didn't…
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I was walking down the halls, they didn't even know who I was, you know, at the beginning of the year, and I didn't know them.
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And so, you know, selfishly, I wanted to get in there and meet all these students, and if I was gonna be reading comments from them, and of course, I didn't memorize all their names in, you know, the, the 75 classrooms that I went in.
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But it, it's just another step at making a large, comprehensive high school feel more intimate, and it, it certainly made them feel like we cared a little more, taking the time to go in and talking to, to each of them
because they understand that, you know, we could have busy schedules and, um, and that we could have just made a video and put it on the Google Form or just had the teachers read, you know, the directions to students.
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But, uh, we felt that we needed to humanize this since that's the whole intent of the survey, was to kind of humanize these, these components of education.
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So we wanted to, we wanted to do our part and walk that walk, so… A lot of things that we do in education can be made easier by technology, and simpler, and more effective, and efficient, and all that.
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However, we do need to remember that we are in the people business and- Exactly … working with people instead of, you know, just trying to do everything in the most efficient manner.
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Right.
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And so- Right … you know, that's one reason why we're doing a video, uh, interview for this, to make this a more real experience- Sure
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so people can see you and your smile, and you with the map behind you, and me with this- … sheet behind me 'cause I got kids- … running around behind me, you know?
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Right.
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We, we- I locked mine outside, so… Yeah.
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Well, mine were locked also- … but they sometimes sneak out.
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Gotcha.
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But w- this is a people business, and we've got to do those things and humanize it, like you said.
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Um, and I just really appreciate your example in doing that.
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We do a survey at my school, but it is very much not a, um- Sterile.
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Yeah, very sterile.
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Thank you.
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That's a good word.
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Um, and the, the concern is, is that we will somehow taint the results if we humanize it.
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What's your, what's your thought on that?
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Um, you know, I think we did.
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I think we did taint the results because, uh, we had done a s- uh, a, a school climate survey, uh, the year prior, and I wasn't there, but we'd taken a s- a subset of
students and asked them, and then kind of used that focus group of students to project, to, um, anticipate what the larger numbers would be, and our results were a lot better.
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Um, and I, I guess, I guess I don't, I don't mind that because if a kid can be, um, agreeing to a statement that, you know, they feel connected to adults in the school simply by our
faces being in their room for 15 minutes, then, uh, they are students who can easily connect to adults in that school or, or, uh, for whom it wouldn't take much to form a connection.
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So, um, I don't know that the data is that skewed.
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And, and on top of that, because they left comments, they had to elaborate on their answers, and no one said, you know, "Well, since you came in, I, I put agree because, you know, I thought it'd make you feel better." You know?
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It was… They were, they were insightful answers, and I think that, um, you know, we, we don't give our students enough credit.
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They know how they're doing, and if us being in the, the room for 15 minutes changed their whole perception of their K-12 education, then, I mean, they were on the cusp anyway probably of doing all right.
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So we didn't worry too much about that.
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Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
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Um, so you collected all the data through a Google Form, and- Mm-hmm
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um, you had a bunch of questions, and if people, um, get the all-access pass, then they can get those questions as well in a- Mm-hmm … in a nice form so they can use them as well.
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But did you come up with all the questions, or did you use Gallup's questions?
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Oh, we did not use Gallup's questions, but we, um, I used some of the Gallup research to determine kind of what- what we need, wanted to focus on in our survey because we wanted to know,
uh, the students' wellbeing was intact, but we also wanted to know that we were doing a good job setting the- them up, um, for the factors that would make them successful after high school.
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And, um, it was pretty evident when writing my book that those factors were engagement in school and hopefulness, connection to peers, connection to staff, um, feeling
significant, like you have something to offer your school community, or that people recognize, um, who you are, and, and just, uh, just in general feeling safe in your school.
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So, um, so I, I was fortunate in that I went into this role already having a good idea of what makes a student feel solid in their experience in high school, and that will set them up on a trajectory for success after high school.
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So then it was just kind of wordsmithing the statement so, um, you know, so that we would get the k- the kind of responses we needed.
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And do I know if it was, you know, as valid or reliable as it would've been had we gone with a, some kind of national or research-based study?
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Probably not.
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But, you know, we're asking the questions to our students, and it's kind of an intimate endeavor, and I guess we didn't mind that because, uh, what we were trying to
generate was how are they doing and who's not doing well, and, like, isolate that list of students who aren't doing well, and then literally say, "Do you know this kid?
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What can we do for him?
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Do you know this girl?
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What can we do for her?" So, um, it wasn't for a d- big data point.
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It was, it was, uh, you know, for some intimate planning and a- analysis of our own, our own kids.
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Great.
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So let's start talking about that planning and analysis that you did after the fact.
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Sure.
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And obviously, we don't wanna betray any student's confidentiality- Right
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but we do want to get some insight into how we can start making decisions.
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Mm-hmm.
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So what were some of the things that you saw in the surveys, in the comments, that made you start implementing something different?
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Sure.
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So we, um, w- we looked at the places where we scored the highest, that most students agreed with those statements.
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And those, I have this here because I knew I'd forget.
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So those are, um- Uh, feelings of hopefulness.
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Students were super high.
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Like 95% of our students were hopeful about their futures, which was pretty, pretty cool.
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I don't know if that many should have been hopeful, but they are.
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Or if that many adults are hopeful of their futures.
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Right.
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I know.
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Uh, uh, we had a ton of students, uh, comment that they felt respected by their peers and felt like they had good friends.
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Uh, a large amount felt that the school-wide r- rules were fair and designed to keep them, um, safe.
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And a t- a ton said that they would be willing to speak up, um, if, if they felt like there was a threat to their safety.
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The places that we realized that we could grow, uh, the, the biggest area of growth was in, um, equity.
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Uh, feeling like they were treated equally and not discriminated against, which, um… And the, and the number one group within that was our girls.
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Our girls thought that there were issues around, um, being discriminated against with, uh, regarding their gender, which was, um, kind of fascinating.
00:19:23.156 --> 00:19:27.106
Uh, and then also, um, connection.
00:19:27.396 --> 00:19:30.226
And, and mind you, these were, were still pretty high.
00:19:30.236 --> 00:19:37.764
So, um- You know, 76% of people thought there was equity and they hadn't been discriminated against in school.
00:19:37.764 --> 00:19:47.614
And then, um, feeling like they mattered, like they had something that made them unique and special and significant to the building, um, that was another area to focus on.
00:19:47.614 --> 00:19:56.584
And then also having an adult who knows them well and that they can go to if they, um, need something or they feel like they need, you know, need someone they can trust, uh, that was another area.
00:19:56.584 --> 00:19:58.194
And again, those were close to 80%.
00:19:58.214 --> 00:20:01.744
So with those being the lowest, we were still pretty excited about where we were.
00:20:01.874 --> 00:20:07.324
So we took our lowest three areas, and then each admin took an area.
00:20:07.324 --> 00:20:16.534
So I took connection to staff, and another admin took, uh, feelings of significance, and another admin, uh, took, uh, equity.
00:20:16.634 --> 00:20:22.424
And we went through and we took every single comment and we highlighted it by color.
00:20:22.434 --> 00:20:32.764
So for example, anything around, um, equity, anything regarding gender would be highlighted in one color, and anything regarding ethnicity would be highlighted in another color.
00:20:32.764 --> 00:20:38.344
And so we would basically codify, um, how their responses were in order to pull out themes.
00:20:38.434 --> 00:20:54.744
And then we took those themes and said, "Of these student responses, here's large area where our students are really feeling like we're not doing right by them." Um, so then we would, we would have a professional development around each of those areas.
00:20:54.844 --> 00:21:00.084
So, you know, one PD session around equity, and we would really dig into the student comments.
00:21:00.084 --> 00:21:10.364
We'd take their names off them, but we'd say, "Here are the students who thought that there was a lack of equity in school, and here's what they had to say," and kind of pull out representative comments that we had heard kind of over and over and over.
00:21:10.654 --> 00:21:16.014
And then here's students who, um, feel like there's a problem, and-- or did I say there wasn't a problem?
00:21:16.034 --> 00:21:16.464
Pro- I don't know.
00:21:16.684 --> 00:21:21.774
And then kind of give represent- representative answers or comments there as well.
00:21:21.774 --> 00:21:37.104
And we did the same thing with connection to staff and feelings of, um, significance and, and the teachers, you know, read the comments,
and that kind of gave, um, voice to the feelings and, and really helped to articulate those themes a little better than we could.
00:21:37.514 --> 00:21:50.798
Uh, and they were, they were The teachers were, um, really excited about the chance to dive in and, and, and really figure out how the students were feeling and know how to tackle those things.
00:21:50.798 --> 00:22:03.918
And what's cool is, like, when we did PD around, um, connection with adults, it's, it can be overwhelming because you think, "Man, I just, I'm working so hard all day long, and it's hard to even, like, hold it together.
00:22:03.928 --> 00:22:14.378
So how can I connect more with my students?" But, um, we also, we took some of the students that had disagreed with the comments, and we asked them if they'd be interested in being a part of a focus group.
00:22:14.708 --> 00:22:20.398
So we held v- various focus groups around these topics too, and, and asked them to explain a little more.
00:22:20.398 --> 00:22:21.658
Like, "You said this in the survey.
00:22:21.658 --> 00:22:22.948
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:22:22.948 --> 00:22:31.038
And what do you think we could do better as a school to help address this?" And the students said things like, "You know, just smile in the hall.
00:22:31.078 --> 00:22:33.658
Like, if every teacher smiled in the hall, that would make a huge difference.
00:22:33.658 --> 00:22:34.958
Like, sometimes we don't even feel seen.
00:22:34.968 --> 00:22:49.786
Just look us in the eye." And so it was neat that it's, it's not A lot of these fixes to these issues are small micro behaviors that happen day in and day out, as opposed to this big initiative that we need to roll out and mandate to staff.
00:22:49.786 --> 00:22:57.346
It's, it's the little stuff that, uh, you know, can make or break a culture, which is, it's, it's al- it's also the hard stuff , you know?
00:22:57.906 --> 00:23:00.966
But it's, uh, that's what we, that's what we found.
00:23:00.966 --> 00:23:11.656
And, and, um, we j- I just looked at the results of our spring student survey, and the, you know, connection with staff is the area where we grew the, or we focused the most this year.
00:23:11.916 --> 00:23:19.156
And, um, we grew by almost 10% of students felt that they'd gone from not feeling connected to connected, so.
00:23:19.656 --> 00:23:19.946
Yeah.
00:23:19.976 --> 00:23:27.336
And in a 2,100-student high school, you know, you said you had about 80% that didn't feel, or that did feel connected.
00:23:27.386 --> 00:23:27.736
Yeah.
00:23:27.736 --> 00:23:31.346
So that's 400 kids that still- Yeah … aren't feeling connected.
00:23:31.346 --> 00:23:31.576
Yeah.
00:23:31.666 --> 00:23:32.196
That's- Yeah.
00:23:32.406 --> 00:23:34.136
That's a big deal … that's the size of my whole entire school.
00:23:34.196 --> 00:23:34.426
Yep.
00:23:34.466 --> 00:23:35.126
So That's a big deal.
00:23:35.416 --> 00:23:36.316
That's a big deal.
00:23:36.386 --> 00:23:36.636
Yeah.
00:23:36.636 --> 00:23:41.146
So and then to have 200 feel like they are connected, that's- Right … pretty powerful also.
00:23:41.166 --> 00:23:48.756
Well, part of what we did is we, because, I mean, the, the joy of technology is then we can take and sort the spreadsheet.
00:23:48.886 --> 00:23:53.376
And so we also took and found the top 100 students that the most disagrees.
00:23:53.376 --> 00:23:54.106
They weren't hopeful.
00:23:54.116 --> 00:23:55.016
They weren't feeling connected.
00:23:55.026 --> 00:23:55.876
They didn't have friends.
00:23:55.936 --> 00:23:56.946
They didn't feel significant.
00:23:57.286 --> 00:24:02.556
And we created a high flyer list, which was basically like, "Who knows these students?
00:24:02.986 --> 00:24:04.066
Come to my office.
00:24:04.096 --> 00:24:05.026
Look through this list.
00:24:05.026 --> 00:24:09.386
Who knows these guys?" And we didn't say what they wrote. We didn't say, but just, "Do you know this kid?
00:24:09.386 --> 00:24:11.436
And if not, you know, sign your name by him if you know him.
00:24:11.466 --> 00:24:15.346
And if you're willing to go out of your way to smile, say hi, ask how their day is," those sorts of things.
00:24:15.806 --> 00:24:24.626
And then after people come in and sign next to, you know, certain names, then we find this small handful of kids that there's no signatures.
00:24:24.816 --> 00:24:25.366
You know what I mean?
00:24:25.396 --> 00:24:29.906
And that's, that becomes that real, um, intense focus.
00:24:29.906 --> 00:24:31.626
Like, who are these kids in our building?
00:24:31.626 --> 00:24:32.966
Why don't we know them?
00:24:33.266 --> 00:24:41.046
Let's rally around and figure out how we can wrap around these kids and get to know them better, and what we can do to make them feel like a part of our community, so.
00:24:41.326 --> 00:24:46.986
So that takes the thing that you talked about at the beginning from The Marshall Memo about the student pictures- Yes … and putting dots on them.
00:24:47.446 --> 00:24:54.831
That takes that and just focuses on those kids that are the most dis- dis- uh, disenfranchised with- Exactly … the system.
00:24:54.831 --> 00:24:55.176
Yep.
00:24:55.176 --> 00:24:57.576
And provides support to them.
00:24:57.836 --> 00:25:02.506
So were those 100 kids the ones that you had in focus groups, or were you pulling kids randomly?
00:25:02.516 --> 00:25:05.346
A lot of them were, um, some of the ones in focus groups.
00:25:05.366 --> 00:25:18.262
Uh, we… So I have, um- I have an instructional team, which is a group of teachers that meets, uh, twice a month, and we just talk about instruction and how to improve instruction in our school.
00:25:19.252 --> 00:25:26.292
And I had this list of students who would be possible focus group candidates, but I didn't know them as well as the teachers would have known them.
00:25:26.292 --> 00:25:39.932
So I kind of asked this question, like, "Of these students, who do you feel would be okay with me asking them to be a part of the focus group, A, and then, B, would have…" Um, you know, 'cause w- there were, there were two aims with the focus group.
00:25:39.932 --> 00:25:46.992
One was to gather information and ideas, but the other one was to turn this population of disenfranchised students into feeling like they're leaders of the school.
00:25:47.282 --> 00:25:50.502
They're the ones coming up with solutions and ideas to solve these problems.
00:25:50.512 --> 00:25:57.092
So now they go from d- being disenfranchised to really owning the issues and feeling like an integral part of making change happen.
00:25:57.102 --> 00:26:14.006
So we kind of, um, used, uh, teacher input to design who was on those focus groups and who would benefit most from being on the focus group and who we could
benefit from the most by having them on the focus group And so what were some of the changes that you put into place this year as a result of the survey?
00:26:15.066 --> 00:26:23.066
Uh, we, I mean, we- we've done a lot around… Our lowest area was, um, equity and discrimination, that statement.
00:26:23.496 --> 00:26:37.516
And, um, one of the most impactful things that we did, uh, is we changed, uh, our leadership students normally, um, hold, like, a diversity week, and we changed it to a unity week.
00:26:37.886 --> 00:26:43.926
And we stuck with this, um, uh, this theme of student voice.
00:26:43.946 --> 00:26:52.786
And our leadership teacher, who's phenomenal, I don't know how she pulled it off 'cause it seems super risky, but it was- it was the most amazing thing I've ever experienced in a school.
00:26:53.096 --> 00:27:02.636
So she basically had each class, freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors, have a class meeting, and she had members of that class.
00:27:02.956 --> 00:27:13.376
So we had gang members, we had undocumented citizens, we had transgender students, we had LBGTQ students, we had students who had been bullied.
00:27:13.716 --> 00:27:16.736
Um, we had just this wide array of students.
00:27:16.796 --> 00:27:21.296
Um, they stood behind a curtain in the auditorium, and they told their story on a microphone.
00:27:21.746 --> 00:27:28.556
And, um, then they would come around the back, or out in the front of the curtain, and to a standing ovation by their peers.
00:27:28.586 --> 00:27:32.486
And every single class, every single person, it happened the exact same way.
00:27:32.516 --> 00:27:33.866
Everyone in the audience was crying.
00:27:34.136 --> 00:27:40.466
The person on the microphone behind the curtain was crying, and people would rush the stage to hug the people that had shared their stories.
00:27:40.496 --> 00:27:47.276
And, you know, I have to commend our teachers too, because we had teachers that would be vulnerable as well in front of their students.
00:27:47.286 --> 00:28:02.516
So they, um, they would get behind the curtain, and they'd tell stories about health issues they had, or issues that they had growing up with their parents, or
issues that they had in school, and they would allow themselves to be vulnerable, and then they'd come around the curtain to a standing ovation by the classes.
00:28:02.526 --> 00:28:24.176
So it was this just kind of amazing week where, um, our students really came together, and there were no, um, there were no more labels that divided people, and everyone just kind of respected,
uh, the fact that, you know, you don't really know some- where someone's coming from unless you know their story, and once you know their story, it's hard to feel this divide between you two.
00:28:24.176 --> 00:28:31.236
And so I, every time I'd look at social media and see what my students were posting on Twitter, I'd get teary.
00:28:31.646 --> 00:28:42.046
Um, because they would talk about how it was life-changing for them, and it was the best thing that they had ever experienced in- in school, and how this should happen more often in schools.
00:28:42.066 --> 00:28:45.356
It was just, it was really cool, and that's- that's just one of many things.
00:28:45.356 --> 00:28:49.116
That's, like, a, that's a big-picture thing that we did to focus on that.
00:28:49.436 --> 00:29:09.528
Um, but there were a lot of little day-to-day things that, um, the teachers implemented to al- also kind of focus on that And I imagine the reason why
that was successful, even though, yes, that would be scary, um, is that you were doing all those other things to make people feel safe to do- Right
00:29:09.578 --> 00:29:10.908
to say their, share their stories.
00:29:11.058 --> 00:29:13.128
We'd kind of developed that culture already.
00:29:13.158 --> 00:29:13.598
Yeah.
00:29:13.668 --> 00:29:13.838
In school.
00:29:13.838 --> 00:29:22.448
And I mean, I was getting a little emotional thinking about what that would be like for a kid who's struggling, and thinking about myself as a high school student and the things that I was going through- Mm-hmm
00:29:22.458 --> 00:29:25.748
how I would've felt really good to be connected.
00:29:25.768 --> 00:29:35.938
And I love the idea that instead of having diversity week, identifying how we're all different- Mm-hmm … you had unity week identifying how we can all be one.
00:29:35.968 --> 00:29:36.198
Yep.
00:29:36.198 --> 00:29:37.408
And- We all have a story.
00:29:37.478 --> 00:29:37.768
Yep.
00:29:37.778 --> 00:29:40.638
Yeah, how powerful that is- … for the students.
00:29:40.968 --> 00:29:46.238
Um, well Amy, I really appreciate your time here today, and sharing this all with us.
00:29:46.238 --> 00:29:50.398
Is there anything you need to add that we didn't get to, um, before our time is up?
00:29:50.908 --> 00:29:53.008
Oh, gosh, I don't, I don't think so.
00:29:53.028 --> 00:30:00.848
Um, just that I think, uh, it was, it was powerful enough work that we are going to continue to do it every year.
00:30:00.878 --> 00:30:10.728
Um, and, and it had a, a tremendous impact on our students and, you know, we had pretty good test scores this year, and I don't think that that's an accident either.
00:30:10.738 --> 00:30:29.148
So, um, you know, all of that is interconnected in schools, and I think you have to, you have to focus on, um, the students', the
entirety, you know, in order to, to re- to really figure out why they're doing well or why they're not doing so well in our buildings.
00:30:29.188 --> 00:30:46.498
And, uh, to be honest with you, I, we have an admin team that cares m- about them doing well, not as a means to an end, but as the end i- in and
of itself, and I think that that's, that needs to be your mindset in order to do this work and really, um, sell it and, and to walk the walk, so.
00:30:47.098 --> 00:30:47.438
Yeah.
00:30:47.538 --> 00:30:48.618
Well, that is awesome.
00:30:48.668 --> 00:30:52.738
Amy, thank you so much for being a part of the Transformative Leadership Summit and being here.
00:30:53.118 --> 00:30:57.968
Um, I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know that everyone watching will as well.
00:30:57.978 --> 00:31:05.438
And so if you wanna watch this later and get some more ideas, and you know you'll benefit from watching it again, 'cause she went pretty fast through f-
00:31:05.448 --> 00:31:06.088
some things.
00:31:06.108 --> 00:31:07.318
So- It's my last name.
00:31:07.688 --> 00:31:07.958
That's right.
00:31:08.438 --> 00:31:14.528
Um, so, uh, you can get the all access pass and get all the questions that she gave as well.
00:31:14.538 --> 00:31:15.808
Thank you again, Amy, for being here.
00:31:15.808 --> 00:31:16.418
Thank you.
00:31:16.748 --> 00:31:17.648
It was a pleasure to be here.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.214 --> 00:00:02.434
Welcome to Transformative Principle.
00:00:03.064 --> 00:00:04.504
This is Jethro Jones.
00:00:05.374 --> 00:00:07.834
I'm pulling some old stuff out of the vault for you today.
00:00:07.954 --> 00:00:15.454
Stuff that is still relevant, even though I recorded it a while ago for the Transformative Leadership Summit.
00:00:16.294 --> 00:00:17.974
Were you a listener when I did those?
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'cause they were pretty awesome.
00:00:20.014 --> 00:00:23.674
So today's episode is from that vault.
00:00:24.094 --> 00:00:25.204
I hope you enjoy it.
00:00:25.234 --> 00:00:27.964
I haven't released these publicly and.
00:00:28.336 --> 00:00:29.296
Listening to them.
00:00:29.296 --> 00:00:32.146
Again, I cannot believe how relevant they are.
00:00:32.716 --> 00:00:36.436
So good stuff, and I hope you enjoy it.
00:00:36.706 --> 00:00:39.226
Thanks so much for listening to Transformative Principle.
00:00:50.736 --> 00:00:55.106
I'm really excited to welcome Amy Fast to the Transformative Leadership Summit.
00:00:55.146 --> 00:01:12.516
This is going to be an awesome interview because she's going to talk about how to, um, get students' feedback and actually do something with it
instead of just giving lip service to the idea of student feedback as, uh, Bob Dylan mentioned in the other Leadership Summit interview that we did.
00:01:12.836 --> 00:01:16.346
So this is really exciting, and I'm stoked to talk to Amy.
00:01:16.346 --> 00:01:20.836
She was on the podcast a little while ago, and you can get more information about what she's been doing.
00:01:21.226 --> 00:01:25.424
But let's start With thanking you, Amy, for being here.
00:01:25.514 --> 00:01:25.824
Appreciate it.
00:01:25.824 --> 00:01:26.674
Thanks for having me.
00:01:27.114 --> 00:01:31.624
And you're- I'm glad to be here … you're currently a, uh, assistant principal in McMinnville, Oregon, right?
00:01:31.864 --> 00:01:33.344
Correct, yes, I am.
00:01:33.634 --> 00:01:33.774
Good.
00:01:34.294 --> 00:01:46.194
And, uh, you've gone through this process of, uh, surveying your students and getting information from them, and let's start with why it's so important to get your students' voice and feedback on what's going on.
00:01:47.044 --> 00:01:47.644
Absolutely.
00:01:47.664 --> 00:01:52.284
Well, student voice has always been, um, something I've been pretty passionate about.
00:01:52.654 --> 00:02:01.714
Um, I didn't realize that I'd always been passionate about it until I went back and looked at my master's thesis and some of the papers that I wrote for my undergrad, and it was just kind of a theme that was strung throughout.
00:02:01.724 --> 00:02:12.654
But, um, as a first-year assistant principal, I didn't, um, anticipate being able to dive into student voice, uh, quite so much, uh, my first year.
00:02:12.664 --> 00:02:28.234
And what ended up happening was that there was, um, a, a shooting at a college in Roseburg, Oregon, which is, uh, you know, pretty close
to home when, when, uh, we're living in McMinnville, Oregon, and it was heartbreaking for students, and it was heartbreaking for staff.
00:02:28.234 --> 00:02:42.434
And I, uh, remember going to my admin team, uh, shortly after and said, "You know, there's gotta be something that we can do to kind of get on top of this issue that is proactive and, and not reactive."
00:02:42.434 --> 00:02:49.374
You know, more security measures or, um, or trainings around, uh, school safety.
00:02:49.384 --> 00:02:56.024
And, and, you know, students who are, who are doing okay, you know, don't, don't do these things, basically.
00:02:56.024 --> 00:03:03.144
And so a proactive measure would be to find out how our students are doing, and what better way to find out how your stu- students are doing than to ask them.
00:03:03.144 --> 00:03:18.414
I'd read, um, articles in the Marshall Memo that talked about, you know, putting student pictures up on the wall in the staff room, and, and staff members
who know those students and feel connected to them put stickers on them so then you can see which students have connections to staff and which don't.
00:03:18.414 --> 00:03:21.124
But there, there are a few issues with that strategy.
00:03:21.124 --> 00:03:28.984
And one, when you're a large, comprehensive high school with over 2,100 students, that's just really time-consuming, so that's, um, challenging.
00:03:28.994 --> 00:03:31.784
And two, that's, that's coming from the teacher's perspective.
00:03:31.784 --> 00:03:40.684
So there may be people that I feel I'm connected with, but we'll get a more accurate measure of that connection if I actually go to the students themselves and ask, "Are you feeling that connection?"
00:03:40.684 --> 00:03:46.154
So, um, the, the, the impetus for the student survey started with safety.
00:03:46.154 --> 00:04:01.220
We just wanted to know how our, our students were doing, and from there, we realized we wanted to ask a few more questions, and while we're at it, we
could find out a little bit about, um, you know, academics and their, their per- post-secondary hope, you know, for the future and that sort of thing.
00:04:01.220 --> 00:04:05.460
So, um, that's how it started, and I can't remember the other part of your question.
00:04:05.790 --> 00:04:07.390
That's okay.
00:04:07.390 --> 00:04:09.270
We'll get to that in a second 'cause you gave- Okay … so much good information there.
00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:09.640
Okay.
00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:25.580
Um, so first of all, it's great that, that, that this started from a student safety perspective, and really feeling vulnerable from a
tragedy that every time something like that happens, we all in education feel that, and it's especially scary when it's close to home.
00:04:25.940 --> 00:04:39.130
And what a great response for you to see that and say, "Let's make sure our kids are okay- Right … and see how they're feeling." So I just wanna commend you on that 'cause that's, that's important to be able to do that, and then to actually take action.
00:04:39.260 --> 00:04:39.940
We all want- Yeah.
00:04:39.940 --> 00:04:42.363
Thank you … to make sure our kids are okay, but actually- Mm-hmm
00:04:42.363 --> 00:04:44.070
taking action is the really cool part of that.
00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:44.560
Yeah.
00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:51.140
So, um, when you have student voice, then you can start to get an idea of what they care about.
00:04:51.510 --> 00:04:53.820
And you want to know a couple of things.
00:04:53.830 --> 00:04:55.790
First, you want to know how they're feeling.
00:04:56.140 --> 00:04:59.530
Two, you want to know if they felt connections with- Mm-hmm … others.
00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:02.990
And three, you want to know about what their plans were.
00:05:03.330 --> 00:05:08.180
And, um, knowing all of those things really has an impact.
00:05:08.250 --> 00:05:13.700
Talk about the impact that that has when you actually know the responses to those queries.
00:05:14.792 --> 00:05:18.212
I mean, well, gosh, it's everything, right?
00:05:18.212 --> 00:05:20.282
Because the- we're in this business for students.
00:05:20.282 --> 00:05:25.632
So if, if we find out the answers to those questions, then we have a pretty clear roadmap for moving forward.
00:05:26.002 --> 00:05:33.332
Um, and you know, I talk a lot, I've talked a lot with staff since we've rolled out the survey about, um, perception versus reality.
00:05:33.372 --> 00:05:46.172
You know, and it might be true that staff go out of their way to be connected to students, or it might be, um, true that we have all of these practices in place to make sure students feel worthwhile and that they are treated equally.
00:05:46.172 --> 00:05:49.662
But it doesn't really matter if that's not students' perception.
00:05:49.762 --> 00:05:53.822
So regardless of our efforts, their perception is their reality.
00:05:53.822 --> 00:06:05.002
And so we want them to be enjoying school and feeling like they're challenged in school and feeling like school is worthwhile and setting them up on a trajectory for greatness in the future.
00:06:05.012 --> 00:06:12.462
And so, um, it's, it's all about how the students are perceiving their education and not so much the kind of education we're giving them.
00:06:12.462 --> 00:06:19.402
So, so knowing that that perception is reality, we took what they said and regarded it as fact, um, and moved forward.
00:06:19.402 --> 00:06:39.952
And it was amazing how, how it really resonated with the staff when you can actually put, um, voice to what the students' experiences are in
your building and you're not just trying to, um, guess at what those might be and throw arrows in the dark trying to tackle those problems.
00:06:39.952 --> 00:06:47.042
It becomes … There's a, there's a much greater sense of urgency around the issues when you hear the students' voices themselves rising to the surface.
00:06:47.452 --> 00:06:58.892
Uh, and, and it's, it's really hitting the mark because you can look at a data point about, you know, regarding an English or a math test and try to analyze why that data point might be happening.
00:06:58.892 --> 00:07:08.362
But you, it's, it's nearly impossible to, to say, you know, how is that student's, um, perceived experience in school impacting that?
00:07:08.362 --> 00:07:10.492
Or how is their level of hopefulness impacting that?
00:07:10.492 --> 00:07:14.002
Or how is their connection with their peers or other staff members impacting that?
00:07:14.002 --> 00:07:33.672
So it just gives a, a lot more multidimensional picture of what's happening in a school, and it allows you to drill down to the, the kind
of real work that needs to happen in order to make sure that students are able to attend to the academic piece and invest in it Fascinating.
00:07:33.862 --> 00:07:36.852
Um, it, it's awesome that you can see all that.
00:07:37.212 --> 00:07:46.082
And one of the things that I think we struggle with in education is being able to actually quantify how many kids are feeling a certain way, you know?
00:07:46.142 --> 00:07:46.572
Right.
00:07:46.652 --> 00:08:02.252
Um, one of my favorite things to, to think about is, um, parents of l- parents who have low incomes, um, in schools that are, you know, Title I schools, and people saying, "Well, these parents don't care," or, "These parents don't…
00:08:02.942 --> 00:08:04.982
These, they work too much," or whatever.
00:08:05.332 --> 00:08:10.672
And the reality is we say that 'cause we think we know the answer, but we really don't- Yeah, right … in most cases.
00:08:10.702 --> 00:08:17.622
And- Right … we may have heard that one person told us they work too much, and that's, that then becomes the story for everybody else.
00:08:17.972 --> 00:08:18.282
Right.
00:08:18.382 --> 00:08:22.682
And what you're doing is making sure that it's not the story for everybody else, that everybody gets to tell their own story.
00:08:22.692 --> 00:08:23.102
Correct.
00:08:23.532 --> 00:08:33.712
Correct, and that was the integral part of this survey, too, is not just collecting the numbers, but collecting the actual thoughts and feelings of students as well, which was the bulk of the work that we did when analyzing the results.
00:08:34.102 --> 00:08:37.082
Yeah, and I just love the, the story of that.
00:08:37.082 --> 00:08:39.342
So let's talk a little bit about that process.
00:08:39.542 --> 00:08:48.552
So the, the shooting happened, you got together with the admin team, and then what's the next step in preparing to get the student voices?
00:08:49.412 --> 00:08:55.802
So we actually… I work with some fantastic people, students, staff, uh, admin.
00:08:55.802 --> 00:09:03.182
A- and so it wasn't… When you asked, you know, how did I, how did we get buy-in for this, it wasn't, I didn't even, I guess I didn't even think at the time we need buy-in for this.
00:09:03.182 --> 00:09:04.992
We just we all thought it was a great idea.
00:09:05.302 --> 00:09:05.912
Let's do it.
00:09:06.232 --> 00:09:26.792
Um, so the, the part that I think was fantastic but also was probably the most challenging part of all of this is that myself and the principal
went into 75 English Language Arts classrooms, which took us three weeks, over three weeks to do, and, uh, talked to each class for 15 minutes.
00:09:26.802 --> 00:09:44.474
And he basically told, um- his own, he kind of made himself vulnerable in front of the students and told how his own personal, uh, journey had some heartache
and trauma involved, and how it was his connections with his friends in school and his connections with the teachers that helped him get through it.
00:09:44.944 --> 00:10:06.054
And then I, I did a little diddy about the research on, um, hopefulness and wellbeing and engagement being better predictors of post-secondary success than your GPA or your SAT scores or, um, any of those
academic measures, and how regardless of that fact, the most important thing to us is that we wanted their experience to be great, and we wanted to know that they were okay, and that we really did care.
00:10:06.054 --> 00:10:14.834
And we said, "You know, we set, we sit as adults in back rooms having meetings about you guys all the time, trying to figure out how you're doing, but we never ask you how you're doing.
00:10:14.834 --> 00:10:22.344
So this is your chance to really own your education, and tell us what we need to do differently, and we'll, we will do our best to do right by you.
00:10:22.614 --> 00:10:27.744
And we're all kind of trying to navigate this, um, as we go, and we don't know what it's gonna look like.
00:10:27.744 --> 00:10:37.434
But, um, we promise we will read every comment, and we, uh, will not punish you for comments that, uh, we may not like.
00:10:37.514 --> 00:10:44.804
And while it will not be anonymous, it will be confidential, so we won't share it with, um, your actual name with anyone outside the admin team."
00:10:45.354 --> 00:10:48.124
Uh, and, you know, students were kind of moved by that.
00:10:48.124 --> 00:11:02.494
I had a student stop me in the hall and say, "You're Miss Fast, right?" And I said, "Yeah." And she goes, "I just wanna tell you that we think it's great
that you guys are trying to figure out how we feel at this school, because we didn't even realize the admin remembered what it was like to be teenagers.
00:11:02.504 --> 00:11:08.084
So the fact that you know it's hard, and that you care, and you wanna hear about that, uh, we, we dig that.
00:11:08.084 --> 00:11:12.274
We think it's pretty cool." And so, uh, we had a lot of great feedback from students.
00:11:12.274 --> 00:11:21.644
And actually, our results on the student survey, because, you know, the Student Gallup poll does a national survey, and th- they measure similar things, and it, it was
00:11:21.824 --> 00:11:23.874
Our numbers were pretty high in McMinnville.
00:11:23.874 --> 00:11:34.524
And so that was, it was a point, a place where we could really celebrate our own successes, but also, um, pinpoint areas and places where we could really grow, um, with our student body, so.
00:11:34.884 --> 00:11:41.534
Yeah, so it would've been really easy for you to just put that on the top of the survey, what the principal said and what you said.
00:11:41.864 --> 00:11:44.064
Why did you go to each individual classroom?
00:11:45.204 --> 00:11:54.666
Well, you know- For, I think our admin team, uh, is pretty good at really, um, trying to walk the walk.
00:11:54.816 --> 00:12:02.126
So trying, trying to be teachers and trying to be with students, and so that philosophy always guides us.
00:12:02.126 --> 00:12:05.596
But I, you know, as a first-year assistant principal, they didn't…
00:12:05.626 --> 00:12:09.546
I was walking down the halls, they didn't even know who I was, you know, at the beginning of the year, and I didn't know them.
00:12:09.546 --> 00:12:19.166
And so, you know, selfishly, I wanted to get in there and meet all these students, and if I was gonna be reading comments from them, and of course, I didn't memorize all their names in, you know, the, the 75 classrooms that I went in.
00:12:19.176 --> 00:12:41.156
But it, it's just another step at making a large, comprehensive high school feel more intimate, and it, it certainly made them feel like we cared a little more, taking the time to go in and talking to, to each of them
because they understand that, you know, we could have busy schedules and, um, and that we could have just made a video and put it on the Google Form or just had the teachers read, you know, the directions to students.
00:12:41.166 --> 00:12:49.076
But, uh, we felt that we needed to humanize this since that's the whole intent of the survey, was to kind of humanize these, these components of education.
00:12:49.076 --> 00:13:02.596
So we wanted to, we wanted to do our part and walk that walk, so… A lot of things that we do in education can be made easier by technology, and simpler, and more effective, and efficient, and all that.
00:13:03.016 --> 00:13:13.996
However, we do need to remember that we are in the people business and- Exactly … working with people instead of, you know, just trying to do everything in the most efficient manner.
00:13:14.066 --> 00:13:14.366
Right.
00:13:14.446 --> 00:13:22.496
And so- Right … you know, that's one reason why we're doing a video, uh, interview for this, to make this a more real experience- Sure
00:13:22.536 --> 00:13:30.826
so people can see you and your smile, and you with the map behind you, and me with this- … sheet behind me 'cause I got kids- … running around behind me, you know?
00:13:30.826 --> 00:13:31.156
Right.
00:13:31.166 --> 00:13:33.176
We, we- I locked mine outside, so… Yeah.
00:13:33.606 --> 00:13:36.436
Well, mine were locked also- … but they sometimes sneak out.
00:13:36.466 --> 00:13:36.866
Gotcha.
00:13:37.776 --> 00:13:43.176
But w- this is a people business, and we've got to do those things and humanize it, like you said.
00:13:43.186 --> 00:13:46.306
Um, and I just really appreciate your example in doing that.
00:13:46.316 --> 00:13:51.626
We do a survey at my school, but it is very much not a, um- Sterile.
00:13:52.136 --> 00:13:52.906
Yeah, very sterile.
00:13:52.916 --> 00:13:53.186
Thank you.
00:13:53.186 --> 00:13:53.906
That's a good word.
00:13:54.326 --> 00:14:02.166
Um, and the, the concern is, is that we will somehow taint the results if we humanize it.
00:14:02.386 --> 00:14:03.986
What's your, what's your thought on that?
00:14:05.566 --> 00:14:07.226
Um, you know, I think we did.
00:14:07.276 --> 00:14:28.596
I think we did taint the results because, uh, we had done a s- uh, a, a school climate survey, uh, the year prior, and I wasn't there, but we'd taken a s- a subset of
students and asked them, and then kind of used that focus group of students to project, to, um, anticipate what the larger numbers would be, and our results were a lot better.
00:14:29.076 --> 00:14:55.136
Um, and I, I guess, I guess I don't, I don't mind that because if a kid can be, um, agreeing to a statement that, you know, they feel connected to adults in the school simply by our
faces being in their room for 15 minutes, then, uh, they are students who can easily connect to adults in that school or, or, uh, for whom it wouldn't take much to form a connection.
00:14:55.136 --> 00:14:58.336
So, um, I don't know that the data is that skewed.
00:14:58.356 --> 00:15:10.006
And, and on top of that, because they left comments, they had to elaborate on their answers, and no one said, you know, "Well, since you came in, I, I put agree because, you know, I thought it'd make you feel better." You know?
00:15:10.016 --> 00:15:16.486
It was… They were, they were insightful answers, and I think that, um, you know, we, we don't give our students enough credit.
00:15:16.496 --> 00:15:29.056
They know how they're doing, and if us being in the, the room for 15 minutes changed their whole perception of their K-12 education, then, I mean, they were on the cusp anyway probably of doing all right.
00:15:29.056 --> 00:15:30.876
So we didn't worry too much about that.
00:15:31.286 --> 00:15:32.666
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
00:15:32.996 --> 00:15:36.816
Um, so you collected all the data through a Google Form, and- Mm-hmm
00:15:36.846 --> 00:15:47.316
um, you had a bunch of questions, and if people, um, get the all-access pass, then they can get those questions as well in a- Mm-hmm … in a nice form so they can use them as well.
00:15:47.816 --> 00:15:51.936
But did you come up with all the questions, or did you use Gallup's questions?
00:15:52.226 --> 00:16:15.452
Oh, we did not use Gallup's questions, but we, um, I used some of the Gallup research to determine kind of what- what we need, wanted to focus on in our survey because we wanted to know,
uh, the students' wellbeing was intact, but we also wanted to know that we were doing a good job setting the- them up, um, for the factors that would make them successful after high school.
00:16:15.472 --> 00:16:39.272
And, um, it was pretty evident when writing my book that those factors were engagement in school and hopefulness, connection to peers, connection to staff, um, feeling
significant, like you have something to offer your school community, or that people recognize, um, who you are, and, and just, uh, just in general feeling safe in your school.
00:16:39.282 --> 00:16:52.402
So, um, so I, I was fortunate in that I went into this role already having a good idea of what makes a student feel solid in their experience in high school, and that will set them up on a trajectory for success after high school.
00:16:52.712 --> 00:17:01.482
So then it was just kind of wordsmithing the statement so, um, you know, so that we would get the k- the kind of responses we needed.
00:17:01.502 --> 00:17:10.492
And do I know if it was, you know, as valid or reliable as it would've been had we gone with a, some kind of national or research-based study?
00:17:10.862 --> 00:17:11.432
Probably not.
00:17:11.432 --> 00:17:31.152
But, you know, we're asking the questions to our students, and it's kind of an intimate endeavor, and I guess we didn't mind that because, uh, what we were trying to
generate was how are they doing and who's not doing well, and, like, isolate that list of students who aren't doing well, and then literally say, "Do you know this kid?
00:17:31.442 --> 00:17:32.492
What can we do for him?
00:17:32.522 --> 00:17:33.352
Do you know this girl?
00:17:33.352 --> 00:17:37.372
What can we do for her?" So, um, it wasn't for a d- big data point.
00:17:37.382 --> 00:17:44.902
It was, it was, uh, you know, for some intimate planning and a- analysis of our own, our own kids.
00:17:45.732 --> 00:17:46.072
Great.
00:17:46.072 --> 00:17:51.712
So let's start talking about that planning and analysis that you did after the fact.
00:17:51.882 --> 00:17:52.122
Sure.
00:17:52.132 --> 00:17:55.102
And obviously, we don't wanna betray any student's confidentiality- Right
00:17:55.452 --> 00:18:01.152
but we do want to get some insight into how we can start making decisions.
00:18:01.162 --> 00:18:01.182
Mm-hmm.
00:18:01.192 --> 00:18:09.222
So what were some of the things that you saw in the surveys, in the comments, that made you start implementing something different?
00:18:09.542 --> 00:18:09.852
Sure.
00:18:09.862 --> 00:18:17.122
So we, um, w- we looked at the places where we scored the highest, that most students agreed with those statements.
00:18:17.132 --> 00:18:18.922
And those, I have this here because I knew I'd forget.
00:18:18.972 --> 00:18:24.616
So those are, um- Uh, feelings of hopefulness.
00:18:24.616 --> 00:18:25.826
Students were super high.
00:18:25.836 --> 00:18:30.186
Like 95% of our students were hopeful about their futures, which was pretty, pretty cool.
00:18:30.186 --> 00:18:32.776
I don't know if that many should have been hopeful, but they are.
00:18:33.906 --> 00:18:36.206
Or if that many adults are hopeful of their futures.
00:18:36.306 --> 00:18:36.386
Right.
00:18:36.386 --> 00:18:36.916
I know.
00:18:37.366 --> 00:18:44.006
Uh, uh, we had a ton of students, uh, comment that they felt respected by their peers and felt like they had good friends.
00:18:44.466 --> 00:18:50.696
Uh, a large amount felt that the school-wide r- rules were fair and designed to keep them, um, safe.
00:18:51.166 --> 00:18:57.976
And a t- a ton said that they would be willing to speak up, um, if, if they felt like there was a threat to their safety.
00:18:58.366 --> 00:19:06.046
The places that we realized that we could grow, uh, the, the biggest area of growth was in, um, equity.
00:19:06.146 --> 00:19:13.726
Uh, feeling like they were treated equally and not discriminated against, which, um… And the, and the number one group within that was our girls.
00:19:14.226 --> 00:19:22.496
Our girls thought that there were issues around, um, being discriminated against with, uh, regarding their gender, which was, um, kind of fascinating.
00:19:23.156 --> 00:19:27.106
Uh, and then also, um, connection.
00:19:27.396 --> 00:19:30.226
And, and mind you, these were, were still pretty high.
00:19:30.236 --> 00:19:37.764
So, um- You know, 76% of people thought there was equity and they hadn't been discriminated against in school.
00:19:37.764 --> 00:19:47.614
And then, um, feeling like they mattered, like they had something that made them unique and special and significant to the building, um, that was another area to focus on.
00:19:47.614 --> 00:19:56.584
And then also having an adult who knows them well and that they can go to if they, um, need something or they feel like they need, you know, need someone they can trust, uh, that was another area.
00:19:56.584 --> 00:19:58.194
And again, those were close to 80%.
00:19:58.214 --> 00:20:01.744
So with those being the lowest, we were still pretty excited about where we were.
00:20:01.874 --> 00:20:07.324
So we took our lowest three areas, and then each admin took an area.
00:20:07.324 --> 00:20:16.534
So I took connection to staff, and another admin took, uh, feelings of significance, and another admin, uh, took, uh, equity.
00:20:16.634 --> 00:20:22.424
And we went through and we took every single comment and we highlighted it by color.
00:20:22.434 --> 00:20:32.764
So for example, anything around, um, equity, anything regarding gender would be highlighted in one color, and anything regarding ethnicity would be highlighted in another color.
00:20:32.764 --> 00:20:38.344
And so we would basically codify, um, how their responses were in order to pull out themes.
00:20:38.434 --> 00:20:54.744
And then we took those themes and said, "Of these student responses, here's large area where our students are really feeling like we're not doing right by them." Um, so then we would, we would have a professional development around each of those areas.
00:20:54.844 --> 00:21:00.084
So, you know, one PD session around equity, and we would really dig into the student comments.
00:21:00.084 --> 00:21:10.364
We'd take their names off them, but we'd say, "Here are the students who thought that there was a lack of equity in school, and here's what they had to say," and kind of pull out representative comments that we had heard kind of over and over and over.
00:21:10.654 --> 00:21:16.014
And then here's students who, um, feel like there's a problem, and-- or did I say there wasn't a problem?
00:21:16.034 --> 00:21:16.464
Pro- I don't know.
00:21:16.684 --> 00:21:21.774
And then kind of give represent- representative answers or comments there as well.
00:21:21.774 --> 00:21:37.104
And we did the same thing with connection to staff and feelings of, um, significance and, and the teachers, you know, read the comments,
and that kind of gave, um, voice to the feelings and, and really helped to articulate those themes a little better than we could.
00:21:37.514 --> 00:21:50.798
Uh, and they were, they were The teachers were, um, really excited about the chance to dive in and, and, and really figure out how the students were feeling and know how to tackle those things.
00:21:50.798 --> 00:22:03.918
And what's cool is, like, when we did PD around, um, connection with adults, it's, it can be overwhelming because you think, "Man, I just, I'm working so hard all day long, and it's hard to even, like, hold it together.
00:22:03.928 --> 00:22:14.378
So how can I connect more with my students?" But, um, we also, we took some of the students that had disagreed with the comments, and we asked them if they'd be interested in being a part of a focus group.
00:22:14.708 --> 00:22:20.398
So we held v- various focus groups around these topics too, and, and asked them to explain a little more.
00:22:20.398 --> 00:22:21.658
Like, "You said this in the survey.
00:22:21.658 --> 00:22:22.948
Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:22:22.948 --> 00:22:31.038
And what do you think we could do better as a school to help address this?" And the students said things like, "You know, just smile in the hall.
00:22:31.078 --> 00:22:33.658
Like, if every teacher smiled in the hall, that would make a huge difference.
00:22:33.658 --> 00:22:34.958
Like, sometimes we don't even feel seen.
00:22:34.968 --> 00:22:49.786
Just look us in the eye." And so it was neat that it's, it's not A lot of these fixes to these issues are small micro behaviors that happen day in and day out, as opposed to this big initiative that we need to roll out and mandate to staff.
00:22:49.786 --> 00:22:57.346
It's, it's the little stuff that, uh, you know, can make or break a culture, which is, it's, it's al- it's also the hard stuff , you know?
00:22:57.906 --> 00:23:00.966
But it's, uh, that's what we, that's what we found.
00:23:00.966 --> 00:23:11.656
And, and, um, we j- I just looked at the results of our spring student survey, and the, you know, connection with staff is the area where we grew the, or we focused the most this year.
00:23:11.916 --> 00:23:19.156
And, um, we grew by almost 10% of students felt that they'd gone from not feeling connected to connected, so.
00:23:19.656 --> 00:23:19.946
Yeah.
00:23:19.976 --> 00:23:27.336
And in a 2,100-student high school, you know, you said you had about 80% that didn't feel, or that did feel connected.
00:23:27.386 --> 00:23:27.736
Yeah.
00:23:27.736 --> 00:23:31.346
So that's 400 kids that still- Yeah … aren't feeling connected.
00:23:31.346 --> 00:23:31.576
Yeah.
00:23:31.666 --> 00:23:32.196
That's- Yeah.
00:23:32.406 --> 00:23:34.136
That's a big deal … that's the size of my whole entire school.
00:23:34.196 --> 00:23:34.426
Yep.
00:23:34.466 --> 00:23:35.126
So That's a big deal.
00:23:35.416 --> 00:23:36.316
That's a big deal.
00:23:36.386 --> 00:23:36.636
Yeah.
00:23:36.636 --> 00:23:41.146
So and then to have 200 feel like they are connected, that's- Right … pretty powerful also.
00:23:41.166 --> 00:23:48.756
Well, part of what we did is we, because, I mean, the, the joy of technology is then we can take and sort the spreadsheet.
00:23:48.886 --> 00:23:53.376
And so we also took and found the top 100 students that the most disagrees.
00:23:53.376 --> 00:23:54.106
They weren't hopeful.
00:23:54.116 --> 00:23:55.016
They weren't feeling connected.
00:23:55.026 --> 00:23:55.876
They didn't have friends.
00:23:55.936 --> 00:23:56.946
They didn't feel significant.
00:23:57.286 --> 00:24:02.556
And we created a high flyer list, which was basically like, "Who knows these students?
00:24:02.986 --> 00:24:04.066
Come to my office.
00:24:04.096 --> 00:24:05.026
Look through this list.
00:24:05.026 --> 00:24:09.386
Who knows these guys?" And we didn't say what they wrote. We didn't say, but just, "Do you know this kid?
00:24:09.386 --> 00:24:11.436
And if not, you know, sign your name by him if you know him.
00:24:11.466 --> 00:24:15.346
And if you're willing to go out of your way to smile, say hi, ask how their day is," those sorts of things.
00:24:15.806 --> 00:24:24.626
And then after people come in and sign next to, you know, certain names, then we find this small handful of kids that there's no signatures.
00:24:24.816 --> 00:24:25.366
You know what I mean?
00:24:25.396 --> 00:24:29.906
And that's, that becomes that real, um, intense focus.
00:24:29.906 --> 00:24:31.626
Like, who are these kids in our building?
00:24:31.626 --> 00:24:32.966
Why don't we know them?
00:24:33.266 --> 00:24:41.046
Let's rally around and figure out how we can wrap around these kids and get to know them better, and what we can do to make them feel like a part of our community, so.
00:24:41.326 --> 00:24:46.986
So that takes the thing that you talked about at the beginning from The Marshall Memo about the student pictures- Yes … and putting dots on them.
00:24:47.446 --> 00:24:54.831
That takes that and just focuses on those kids that are the most dis- dis- uh, disenfranchised with- Exactly … the system.
00:24:54.831 --> 00:24:55.176
Yep.
00:24:55.176 --> 00:24:57.576
And provides support to them.
00:24:57.836 --> 00:25:02.506
So were those 100 kids the ones that you had in focus groups, or were you pulling kids randomly?
00:25:02.516 --> 00:25:05.346
A lot of them were, um, some of the ones in focus groups.
00:25:05.366 --> 00:25:18.262
Uh, we… So I have, um- I have an instructional team, which is a group of teachers that meets, uh, twice a month, and we just talk about instruction and how to improve instruction in our school.
00:25:19.252 --> 00:25:26.292
And I had this list of students who would be possible focus group candidates, but I didn't know them as well as the teachers would have known them.
00:25:26.292 --> 00:25:39.932
So I kind of asked this question, like, "Of these students, who do you feel would be okay with me asking them to be a part of the focus group, A, and then, B, would have…" Um, you know, 'cause w- there were, there were two aims with the focus group.
00:25:39.932 --> 00:25:46.992
One was to gather information and ideas, but the other one was to turn this population of disenfranchised students into feeling like they're leaders of the school.
00:25:47.282 --> 00:25:50.502
They're the ones coming up with solutions and ideas to solve these problems.
00:25:50.512 --> 00:25:57.092
So now they go from d- being disenfranchised to really owning the issues and feeling like an integral part of making change happen.
00:25:57.102 --> 00:26:14.006
So we kind of, um, used, uh, teacher input to design who was on those focus groups and who would benefit most from being on the focus group and who we could
benefit from the most by having them on the focus group And so what were some of the changes that you put into place this year as a result of the survey?
00:26:15.066 --> 00:26:23.066
Uh, we, I mean, we- we've done a lot around… Our lowest area was, um, equity and discrimination, that statement.
00:26:23.496 --> 00:26:37.516
And, um, one of the most impactful things that we did, uh, is we changed, uh, our leadership students normally, um, hold, like, a diversity week, and we changed it to a unity week.
00:26:37.886 --> 00:26:43.926
And we stuck with this, um, uh, this theme of student voice.
00:26:43.946 --> 00:26:52.786
And our leadership teacher, who's phenomenal, I don't know how she pulled it off 'cause it seems super risky, but it was- it was the most amazing thing I've ever experienced in a school.
00:26:53.096 --> 00:27:02.636
So she basically had each class, freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors, have a class meeting, and she had members of that class.
00:27:02.956 --> 00:27:13.376
So we had gang members, we had undocumented citizens, we had transgender students, we had LBGTQ students, we had students who had been bullied.
00:27:13.716 --> 00:27:16.736
Um, we had just this wide array of students.
00:27:16.796 --> 00:27:21.296
Um, they stood behind a curtain in the auditorium, and they told their story on a microphone.
00:27:21.746 --> 00:27:28.556
And, um, then they would come around the back, or out in the front of the curtain, and to a standing ovation by their peers.
00:27:28.586 --> 00:27:32.486
And every single class, every single person, it happened the exact same way.
00:27:32.516 --> 00:27:33.866
Everyone in the audience was crying.
00:27:34.136 --> 00:27:40.466
The person on the microphone behind the curtain was crying, and people would rush the stage to hug the people that had shared their stories.
00:27:40.496 --> 00:27:47.276
And, you know, I have to commend our teachers too, because we had teachers that would be vulnerable as well in front of their students.
00:27:47.286 --> 00:28:02.516
So they, um, they would get behind the curtain, and they'd tell stories about health issues they had, or issues that they had growing up with their parents, or
issues that they had in school, and they would allow themselves to be vulnerable, and then they'd come around the curtain to a standing ovation by the classes.
00:28:02.526 --> 00:28:24.176
So it was this just kind of amazing week where, um, our students really came together, and there were no, um, there were no more labels that divided people, and everyone just kind of respected,
uh, the fact that, you know, you don't really know some- where someone's coming from unless you know their story, and once you know their story, it's hard to feel this divide between you two.
00:28:24.176 --> 00:28:31.236
And so I, every time I'd look at social media and see what my students were posting on Twitter, I'd get teary.
00:28:31.646 --> 00:28:42.046
Um, because they would talk about how it was life-changing for them, and it was the best thing that they had ever experienced in- in school, and how this should happen more often in schools.
00:28:42.066 --> 00:28:45.356
It was just, it was really cool, and that's- that's just one of many things.
00:28:45.356 --> 00:28:49.116
That's, like, a, that's a big-picture thing that we did to focus on that.
00:28:49.436 --> 00:29:09.528
Um, but there were a lot of little day-to-day things that, um, the teachers implemented to al- also kind of focus on that And I imagine the reason why
that was successful, even though, yes, that would be scary, um, is that you were doing all those other things to make people feel safe to do- Right
00:29:09.578 --> 00:29:10.908
to say their, share their stories.
00:29:11.058 --> 00:29:13.128
We'd kind of developed that culture already.
00:29:13.158 --> 00:29:13.598
Yeah.
00:29:13.668 --> 00:29:13.838
In school.
00:29:13.838 --> 00:29:22.448
And I mean, I was getting a little emotional thinking about what that would be like for a kid who's struggling, and thinking about myself as a high school student and the things that I was going through- Mm-hmm
00:29:22.458 --> 00:29:25.748
how I would've felt really good to be connected.
00:29:25.768 --> 00:29:35.938
And I love the idea that instead of having diversity week, identifying how we're all different- Mm-hmm … you had unity week identifying how we can all be one.
00:29:35.968 --> 00:29:36.198
Yep.
00:29:36.198 --> 00:29:37.408
And- We all have a story.
00:29:37.478 --> 00:29:37.768
Yep.
00:29:37.778 --> 00:29:40.638
Yeah, how powerful that is- … for the students.
00:29:40.968 --> 00:29:46.238
Um, well Amy, I really appreciate your time here today, and sharing this all with us.
00:29:46.238 --> 00:29:50.398
Is there anything you need to add that we didn't get to, um, before our time is up?
00:29:50.908 --> 00:29:53.008
Oh, gosh, I don't, I don't think so.
00:29:53.028 --> 00:30:00.848
Um, just that I think, uh, it was, it was powerful enough work that we are going to continue to do it every year.
00:30:00.878 --> 00:30:10.728
Um, and, and it had a, a tremendous impact on our students and, you know, we had pretty good test scores this year, and I don't think that that's an accident either.
00:30:10.738 --> 00:30:29.148
So, um, you know, all of that is interconnected in schools, and I think you have to, you have to focus on, um, the students', the
entirety, you know, in order to, to re- to really figure out why they're doing well or why they're not doing so well in our buildings.
00:30:29.188 --> 00:30:46.498
And, uh, to be honest with you, I, we have an admin team that cares m- about them doing well, not as a means to an end, but as the end i- in and
of itself, and I think that that's, that needs to be your mindset in order to do this work and really, um, sell it and, and to walk the walk, so.
00:30:47.098 --> 00:30:47.438
Yeah.
00:30:47.538 --> 00:30:48.618
Well, that is awesome.
00:30:48.668 --> 00:30:52.738
Amy, thank you so much for being a part of the Transformative Leadership Summit and being here.
00:30:53.118 --> 00:30:57.968
Um, I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know that everyone watching will as well.
00:30:57.978 --> 00:31:05.438
And so if you wanna watch this later and get some more ideas, and you know you'll benefit from watching it again, 'cause she went pretty fast through f-
00:31:05.448 --> 00:31:06.088
some things.
00:31:06.108 --> 00:31:07.318
So- It's my last name.
00:31:07.688 --> 00:31:07.958
That's right.
00:31:08.438 --> 00:31:14.528
Um, so, uh, you can get the all access pass and get all the questions that she gave as well.
00:31:14.538 --> 00:31:15.808
Thank you again, Amy, for being here.
00:31:15.808 --> 00:31:16.418
Thank you.
00:31:16.748 --> 00:31:17.648
It was a pleasure to be here.
