#90: Why Is Connecting with People So Hard? Neurodivergence, Masking & the Wall of Glass

WEBVTT
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:01.760
Hello and welcome.
00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:03.600
Welcome to Just Count Me In.
00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.719
I'm Sari Stone and I want to welcome you to the podcast.
00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:08.960
Today we have a really special guest.
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:20.879
His name is Gaiton Klein, and he spent years helping neurodivergent children and adults move through what he calls a wall of glass.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.000
That's the experience that he was experiencing.
00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:40.320
From that, being walled off from life to having a real connection with life and a connection with the world and feel like he actually belongs where he's at a place where he can say, hey, this is me and this is who I am.
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.759
And he gets it, and he gets it from other people too.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:57.679
So Gaitro's going to explain his story from feeling different and walled off from the world to finding a therapist, to becoming a therapist, to helping other people transform their lives.
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:01.679
And he just has such a phenomenal story and such a great feel.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:11.920
There are so many people out there right now I know that are going through this or have know somebody who's going through this feeling, or maybe they have a question about it.
00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:18.000
So I'm going to say if you take just a second right now, just pause this and stop download.
00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:26.079
Click the download button and share this podcast with somebody you know that might be going through this because there will be somebody.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:47.439
Make sure you stay till the end because he's actually going to reveal some truth about peak therapy, and he's going to give us an exercise to recognize whether you're experiencing the wall of glass or not, and show how everything changed for him and the people that he works with.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:53.920
So I want to say welcome and thank you so much for coming and being awake this late at night to do this.
00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:57.120
I know you have a little baby and it's 10 o'clock at night your time.
00:01:57.280 --> 00:01:59.840
So thank you for making the time for this.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:07.760
So, people who are meeting you for the first time, what led you into doing what you do?
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.560
What can you tell us about yourself?
00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:15.919
Yes, well, first of all, hello, and uh thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:18.080
It's a pleasure to meet your audience.
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:26.560
So, yes, to tell you about me, I've been a therapist for uh almost uh 15 years now, actually, more than 15 years.
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:36.319
And um, I started with the quest of finding what are the techniques that exist out there that can help people transform themselves and create the life that they want to create.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:44.240
And of course, when you become a therapist, you do it because you want to help other people, but there's always a part of yourself that you want to help too.
00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.759
So I was looking for things that could help me in my own life.
00:02:47.919 --> 00:03:09.120
And one of the things that changed the most for me was realizing I had this feeling of being separated from people, and it was hard for me to connect with other people emotionally, even though I looked normal and I looked like everything was fine, and there was no real problems I could point to, but I felt there is something that's wrong, something that's not working.
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:19.039
I've been feeling it my whole life, and um, yeah, everything changed for me when I discovered that it's something that has a name, that is uh something that exists and can be recognized.
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:29.280
And um, yeah, when I was 26, somebody told me, Peyton, don't you feel that you are being surrounded by a wall of glass, like a barrier between you and other people?
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.639
And I said, Yes, that's exactly what I'm feeling.
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.879
And it was a shock to me that somebody could give it a name.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:41.599
Yeah, so that was when you were 26.
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:42.879
Yes.
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:49.439
So the first 25 years up until you were 26, that must have been a struggle for you.
00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.360
What did your parents think?
00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:56.319
Could you communicate to them what you were feeling or what you felt like was wrong?
00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:07.520
Well, I I tried, but it was very difficult because in appearance there was nothing wrong with me, and I could not tell my parents there is this stuff that's a problem.
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:26.160
I tried to explain how I felt, and I felt I was different from other people, but in a way that made me feel I am not like the others, I am separate, it's something that separates me from people, and you know, when you're a kid, you try to find out, so you think maybe I come from that planet, maybe my parents adopted me, what's wrong?
00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:32.000
And I asked them, you know, what makes me different, and they say, You're not different, you're just like everybody else.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:52.720
But me, I felt for other people it was easy to socialize, it was easy to make friends, it was easy for them to negate to navigate social life, but me, I felt I didn't have the code, I didn't know how it works, and I felt yeah, it just was hard for me to socialize and make friends, and there was a lot of misunderstanding, right?
00:04:53.600 --> 00:05:03.279
And that must have been awful, like for lack of a better word, that must have been really terrible for you, like very lonely.
00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:11.759
Um when how so for someone who doesn't know, how does this happen?
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.639
How what caught what's the cause of this?
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:20.079
So, from what I know now, it's actually something that you are born with.
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.759
You are born this way, and so for you it's completely normal.
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.079
You just always have this experience.
00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:36.079
It's just that when you grow up, when you're like five-year-old, six-year-old, seven-year-old, and you socialize more and more, you realize it seems so easy for others, but for me, it's always a struggle.
00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.720
I feel exhausted, I don't understand.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:46.800
Um, I try to say things to make people react but they don't react, or sometimes I say something that I think they will not react to because they do react.
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:54.240
And there's just a lot of misunderstandings and so over time you realize there is a difference, there is something that's wrong.
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:55.120
Yeah.
00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:00.079
So you spent a lot of time questioning yourself, but really, this was the way that you were born.
00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.199
This is who you are, and there's nothing wrong.
00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:14.639
This is just different, and I think that's where the biggest shift is, is that we start to think that something's wrong with us because we might not be exactly the same as everybody around us.
00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.240
And really, everybody just has different ways of processing.
00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:24.399
And instead, we make ourselves wrong, like something's wrong with us, and there's actually not.
00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.240
We just have to figure out our way in, right?
00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.160
Just have to figure out our way in.
00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:41.759
So this I can understand where a lot of people would not be able to recognize this if they had it and or might mask it.
00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:52.160
I know people with ADD mask in different ways, and a lot of people didn't realize that they have that until later on, and somebody recognizes it.
00:06:52.319 --> 00:07:01.439
So how would somebody know if their child or their friend or their partner or if they have it?
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:03.600
How would somebody know?
00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:18.319
Well, if you have it, you would experience that it's more difficult for you to socialize and to communicate, not because you don't want to, but because somehow there's a lot of misunderstandings happening in your relationships.
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:31.199
You you hear somebody say something and they mean something different, but the translation gets a bit lost, and so you react to what they said, not what they really mean, because you don't know the difference.
00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:36.720
So your response will be something that they don't expect, but that creates a lot of small misunderstandings.
00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:44.240
So it's it's just baffling because you cannot see the problem, you cannot touch it, right?
00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:49.439
You just realize there is something that's not working, and like you said, it's not me.
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.839
I feel I'm I don't have a problem.
00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:53.439
So where does the problem come from?
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:54.879
It's really surprising.
00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:08.720
So people appear extremely normal and they're high functioning, they're not there's not a problem, it's just the struggle and the agony is what's going on on the inside, on the inside.
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:14.000
So, can you tell me a little bit about what this person did for you?
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.319
What did this person do for you?
00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.319
Yeah, so the therapist I met when I was 26.
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:36.320
So I was already a therapist at the time, and of course, I was doing work on myself, and I was trying to improve things in my life, and one of the things that did not work was my feeling of being connected with people emotionally, in my you know, in my romantic life, in my friendships.
00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:45.679
I felt somehow people don't really understand me, so I was trying to improve my skills, you know, and said, you know, maybe it's not about your skills, maybe there is something else going on.
00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:47.600
And I asked her, What do you mean?
00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:52.639
And then she asked me, Don't you feel that you are being surrounded by a wall of glass?
00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:57.600
Like an invisible barrier that is standing between you and people.
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:10.320
And when I realized, yes, that's exactly what I feel, it made sense because suddenly it was the problem was not in me, it was not on the outside either, it was between me and the world.
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:26.080
She explained to me that this wall of glass is something that creates all of this disconnection, misunderstanding, feeling lonely even though you are surrounded by people, feeling that you are not truly seen or recognized for who you are, and valued for who you are, even though you're trying to.
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:32.240
And um, yeah, she told me, you know, this is the source of all these problems, and we can remove it.
00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.519
It doesn't have to be this way, it's not supposed to stay there.
00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:40.159
So I said, Yes, tell me how you do it, and and we did it, yes.
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:52.000
And about how she like unlocked, I think of the reason I wanted to go into being a teacher was because I read the story of Helen Keller and she was blind and deaf.
00:09:52.159 --> 00:10:00.240
And when I read that story about her teacher, I thought she unlocked Helen, she unlocked her.
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:05.759
And we, as teachers, you and I, we un we help people unlock.
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:12.480
It might not be obvious when we might not be blind, we might not be deaf, but we all have our own prisons.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:32.639
And if you can help somebody break out and unlock and shatter that glass between them and their life experience, I mean, that's such an important, vital, beautiful thing that you're doing for people right now.
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.840
So I want you to share a little bit more.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:42.639
If what do you wish people would know about this?
00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.919
Like what do you want people to know?
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:54.080
Or people that are going through it, or people that have children or friends, or part I know somebody who has a partner, and I were forwarding this.
00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:00.559
So what are you going to tell them from being on this side of the glass?
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:09.039
Um, well, I want people to know that if there is this problem between them and the world, it's not really their fault.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:16.320
It's not that you're doing anything wrong, it's not that you are not uh good enough or skilled enough or or willing enough.
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:24.559
One thing that I've been told when I was younger is oh, you have no empathy, or you are arrogant, or you are cold, or you are distant.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:35.519
And I was like, Me, no, I'm trying to be present and to interact, and I have a lot of empathy in me, so I didn't understand why people were blaming me for being cold or disconnected.
00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:49.440
So if your partner is experiencing this or your children, they might seem a bit withdrawn or shy, but it's not a lack of effort or lack of intelligence, absolutely not.
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:53.759
It's not a lack of skills, it's because there is this barrier between them and the world.
00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.159
And when you have this barrier, you just don't know what to do.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:03.039
You're doing your best to try to reach out, but there is a blockage, and yeah, that's the drama of it, really.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.519
They're doing the best that they can do.
00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:08.159
Yes, they're doing the best that they can do.
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:11.039
And where do you start?
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.559
Is the healing immediate with a child?
00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:16.639
I imagine it would be pretty quick.
00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.759
With you, it sounded like it was pretty quick.
00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.600
But does this process just heal it?
00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.240
The this process that you do, it just heals it and that's it.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:30.879
And so then you tell me more.
00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:31.519
Tell me more.
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:32.879
Yeah, it does.
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.519
So the process requires several sessions, but it depends on the person.
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.240
Some people would do it in three sessions.
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:47.519
I've done it very fast with some of my clients that I've worked with, and some people require maybe 12, even maybe 15 sessions.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:48.720
So it depends.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:56.240
But there's a process that we do in this form of therapy, and now I've decided to do it with my clients for a few years already.
00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:01.840
Um, the goal is to remove this feeling of having a wall of glass, what I call a wall of glass.
00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.039
Sometimes people call it a shield, a buyer.
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.120
I've got people who said it for me, it's like a fog between me and people.
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:16.320
I had somebody who told me it's like a scapender that I'm wearing, it's very heavy and I can only look like to a little window.
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:23.279
In both in all cases, it comes down to something that was wrong in the development before we're born.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:36.240
Before we're born, we have all of these steps of development, and one of them is a step where this can appear or not, and if it does appear, then it stays like that for our life until we do the process.
00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:36.960
Okay.
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:46.799
So before we were even born, like right at conception or as we're developing, or it's that that innate, it's that deep.
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:49.840
Wow.
00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:55.200
And so that's amazing that you're able to locate it there.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:56.879
So then what?
00:13:57.039 --> 00:13:57.919
Do you go back?
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:06.799
Do you regress a person and go back to that point in their life, in their development?
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.399
Do you use hypnosis?
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:13.200
Do you use to get them back and then clear it and kind of join things up?
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.240
Is that what your process is or similar?
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:21.039
Yes, it's exactly it is, it is.
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:27.279
It's very surprising for people, but it's actually easy when you have the right technique to regress to this moments.
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:38.480
And we don't use hypnosis, but we use a specific music and some uh visualization and some phrases that recreate the atmosphere of this moment.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:51.279
And what is really amazing is that our body keeps the memory of its own development, and so we have in ourselves we can unlock this memory of what happened when before we were born.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:56.639
And so when we have the right technique, you can target a specific moment, and that's what we do in the process.
00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.919
We have a music, a way of targeting exactly this moment.
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:09.840
And when we do the session, you know, people are not into a trance, just listen to music, listen to the words, and they will start to feel emotion.
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:16.799
Then they will start to feel, oh yes, I can feel I'm having this experience of this world suddenly appearing in front of me.
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.919
And then we do the work to transform that.
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:26.080
So yes, surprising, but it's um it's very concrete.
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.720
When you're in it, you feel oh, I am there.
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.159
No, I yeah, I believe you.
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:42.240
I've had similar experiences, not with a wall of glass, but similar, where I've done regression and I do regression on some of my clients, and it's amazing.
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.960
And they just get right, everything is right there.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.720
It's all accessible to us.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:58.879
We just have to make the adjustments to get our consciousness at that place and our awareness at that place, and be relaxed and feel safe, which meeting you, I think anybody would feel safe with you.
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:00.720
And uh, and there it is.
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:08.159
And I think the hardest thing for some people to get into their heads is that it's actually immediate and permanent.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:16.159
Once this is healed, each of these processes, each of these sessions is permanent and it's immediately it's healed.
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.840
Like when it's healed, it's healed.
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.360
There's no picking a scab off of it and it's gonna come back or anything.
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:22.720
Is that correct?
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.240
Yeah, no, correct.
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.679
I've done this process 13 years ago, and after the last session, I never had to go back to it.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:30.720
It's done, it's done.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:32.000
It's permanent change.
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:33.360
It's permanent change.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.279
And we do now know through epigenetics that we can make those changes.
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:47.120
I love this being alive in these times because this backs up what we sort of innately know and would be hoping for in life.
00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:54.000
And this is a chance, it's a key that unlocks for so many people, and it's permanent change, it's healed, it's fixed.
00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:06.640
So if you think there's somebody in your life that has this, and where could you start a conversation with them?
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.680
I mean, if it's your child, it's kind of easy to tell you the truth.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.839
I work with kids and I work with adults and I love them all, but kids are easier.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:28.240
So let's say you've got an adult and this person is really capable, really high achieving, but you just know that their intelligence is almost hiding their suffering.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.119
You know what I mean?
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:37.359
Like they're they're masking it with how smart they are, or they're masking it with how many things they can do, or they're masking it with all these achievements.
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.839
And they don't recognize, how do you know?
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.759
Women in particular, you had mentioned, I listened to some of your YouTubes, and I do want to recommend that you watch his YouTube.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.880
They're amazing.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.039
And we'll put links in the show notes for all this, for all of your connections.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:59.440
But when I watched, I noticed that there was a special thing for women that women were a little bit more prone or women mask a little bit differently.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.119
Can you tell us about that?
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:04.960
Yes.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:17.119
So the difference between men and women who have this uh perception of the wall of glass is that generally women try to overcome it by trying to give people what they think they expect in terms of communication.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:41.920
So they try to understand what people are expecting from me, and so they learn to mask consciously or unconsciously often and try to give this persona of yes, I'm fine, I can smile, I can make eye contact because people seem to pay a lot of attention to that, they can make gestures, so it's a kind of a survival mechanism to try to mimic what other people are doing and try to see does it work?
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:43.680
Do people connect with me?
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:45.599
Do I get my message across?
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:49.599
And so, of course, if it works, you do it more and more, and so it becomes a habit.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:19:05.680
For men, they have a different tendency because they might be picking up a little bit less on body language and uh emotional expression, and so they try instead to rely on systemizing and analyzing intellectually interactions.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.480
So, oh, when I say this, people react like this.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:19.920
When I say it like this, people react like this, and they try to make the system the mind, try to understand social dynamics and how people communicate, and they make it a bit more from the head, yes.
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.279
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:28.799
They make it for from more from the head, and women read more like the mirror neurons and make it from the heart.
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:30.799
So, is that okay?
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.240
That would make sense.
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:38.799
So, what could you how do you recommend you broach this subject with somebody in your life?
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.480
Let's let's start with a child.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:41.920
Let's go easy first.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.640
Like, how would you explain this to a child?
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.039
You work with children too, you know what I mean.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.319
Yeah, I do.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:20:02.400
Well, first of all, I would ask them a few questions to try to assess what is their experience of the world, and to ask them, do you feel that you are part of the world or do you feel separated, like you are kind of alone?
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.920
And if that's the case, do you feel like you are in a bubble?
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.519
And it's hard to make people come inside your bubble or to go out of the bubble yourself.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.839
And by using this metaphor, they might recognize the experience.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:22.400
Also, if they have difficulties making friends, like it was for me when I was a child, it was hard to make friends.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.400
I I had to ask them, Are you my friend?
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:25.440
Because I didn't know.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:45.440
If you rely on uh explicit language to clarify the situations and the relationships, if you feel tired also after socializing, or if you prefer to be on your own because it's easier, all of these are signs, and the more signs you have, the more you can think maybe okay, there is something.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:52.559
And so if that's the case, I have a test that I can teach people that help them to recognize if there's a world class.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:21:13.119
Okay, because that to me there would be a whole spectrum of that, because there's like very sensitive people, very introverted people, people that are sensitive that are not introverted, that could definitely check those boxes for those questions, those traits that you just said.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:30.240
And I think if unless you had your type of training and specific questions that you asked that would tease this information out, that would be diagnostic questions, you could, I mean, so many people you would think would have this that don't have it.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.160
Um, so that's good, it's great because you've got the clinical background on it in it.
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:44.319
And then you can quickly weed out is this the person that's just drained when they're around people, or are we taking it a lot further than that?
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:50.240
Does it mean that they're overfeeling everybody's emotions or are they not feeling anybody's emotions?
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:51.759
Like which is it?
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.759
Ah, it's a good question, actually, because it can be both, surprisingly.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759
So the wall of glass has the effect of blocking.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.759
The connection from the heart.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:09.680
And it makes it harder to understand body language and um everything that's implied and unspoken in communication.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:15.440
And so it creates a strange effect for about half of the people I work with.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.240
It's hard for them to guess what the other people's emotions are.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:25.599
So it's hard to for them to guess that person is angry, or that person is sad, or the person is upset.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.920
And so they don't know, and they have to analyze things to know.
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:42.880
But some people they find a different way of connecting with people emotionally, and they try to reach out so much that they actually feel people's emotions very well, but they feel them too much.
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:53.200
So it becomes overwhelming, or sometimes it's like intrusive, and they feel, oh my god, this is taking so much of my energy and draining me and taking my mental space.
00:22:53.440 --> 00:23:01.440
And they can guess people's emotions, but then it becomes a problem for them, and they are often labeled as hypersensitive.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:09.279
Maybe we should say hyperempathic, but in both cases because the normal connection is kind of blocked.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.160
So you have to find a way to make it work anyway.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.480
Right, to kind of go around it, to reroute it a little bit.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:22.640
So it's a blockage between, because we talk a lot with the head, the heart, and the gut.
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:30.240
It sounds like there's not communication between the heart and the gut and the head, specifically the heart.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:41.359
And that people then create their own bypasses, like a highway bypass if there's if it's blocked, if there's a detour, they create a they create their own way.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:47.200
Um, but this gives them the tool to just directly go, right?
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:47.519
Yes.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.839
To just directly go to where they're going.
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:50.799
Yes.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:51.440
Yeah.
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.519
You can remove the book if things are open and stable.
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:56.720
Yeah.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:57.279
Yeah.
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:13.839
It just feels like you just shed a light on so many things, and I'm processing what you're saying while we're having this conversation and thinking in my head of so many people that I know and so many kids that I know that will benefit from this.
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:22.880
If they are exposed to it, because I work with kids that are autistic and I also work with some kids that have aspers and some that are on the spectrum.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:37.920
Could you explain to a lay person what's the difference between because people, when it was first introduced to me 10 years ago when I was getting courses on it and I was teaching in the classroom, they called it the same thing.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:40.960
And it was it's not the same thing, correct?
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.799
You mean between autism and as progress, or do you mean yes?
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.880
So maybe diff maybe define that a little bit for us.
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.759
Well, as you said, it's a spectrum.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.559
So spectrum means something very, very large.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:10.319
So generally we put on the spectrum people who have difficulties in their interaction with people and in their ability to uh communicate at the emotional level, and that's large, okay?
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:11.680
That's a big definition.
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:20.799
The difference I make is I only focus on what is the actual experience of the person and if they recognize this world of class.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:31.599
And most people that would be labeled Asperger, even though the term is uh now kind of obsolete, but still a lot of people just receive that, so we still use it somehow.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.519
It overlaps a lot with the world of glass.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.759
Honestly, most people would recognize themselves in the world of glass if they recognize themselves in Asperger.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:56.640
While when we have um children and people who are on the more severe side of the spectrum, they have more difficulties in also processing the world in terms of uh sensations, perceptions.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:02.720
Um they have a more difficult ability to connect with people at the intellectual level, too.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:07.039
So they have a larger degree of uh disability, it's a different problem.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:08.799
Right, right.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:13.200
That's what one little girl comes to mind, and she was totally non-verbal.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.680
I mean, five years old and non-verbal.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:25.200
So okay, well, if somebody work with them, but it's a difficult it's difficult, yes, yes.
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:32.960
It's a difficult life for her to be living and difficult for her family as well to be watching it.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:41.440
So you are also writing a book in the process of writing the book.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:42.319
Okay.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.000
And is the book your story?
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:47.680
Is the book this method?
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:53.680
Tell us a little bit about, I know it's not out yet, but tell us a little bit about the book, just so it can be on the radar.
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.880
Yes, so it's still in the process of being written.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.759
I'm co-writing with um one of my colleagues with a PhD in psychology and one with in uh biology.
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.680
So we combine this approach of my own story because I lived through it.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.599
When I was a kid, I felt this difference, the separation, it's wall of glass.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:19.119
And the one of the co-author is actually the man who discovered this feeling of having the roller glass and the link to prenatal development.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:28.000
So he's gonna tell that part of the story, and then I'm gonna bring my part, it's more psychological and the point of view of somebody who was in it and went out of it.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.960
And then my other colleague will bring some other data that comes more from the clinical world.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:49.119
So we're trying to give a few different angles and make people realize that first of all, it's highly linked with uh autism or harzberg, but also a lot of people have this experience but would never be diagnosed.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.759
Sometimes they don't even see a psychologist, just think, oh, this is how I am.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:01.519
But I cannot say there's a visible problem, it's invisible stuff, so it's really hard for people to detect.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:14.880
So the more they can get in touch with themselves and who they are and start to articulate the way they're interacting with life, the easier it's gonna be to diagnose and see what it is and help feel the whole person.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:24.240
Because I think that's the that would be the challenge is that a lot of people are not connected, they're very cerebral, but they're not connected with all of it.
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:30.000
So they really, because they've always lived like this, they think this is me, this is what life is.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:36.640
Friendship is hard, relationships are hard, people don't get me, but I make it work, you know?
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:51.039
And so I think because we have that going on, it's a matter of getting people in touch with themselves and being comfortable to say, hey, this is who I am, this is me, and this is how I'm experiencing.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:55.200
And sometimes I'll just ask kids, I'll say, what's it like to be 13?
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:56.799
And they'll tell me.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:06.160
I mean, the the pressures that they feel, the disconnection that they feel, the fears that they feel these are high-functioning, successful on the outside kids.
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:12.240
And I tell their parents, and they're just blown away that their kids are going through all this and not saying it.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:28.000
So I think keeping the conversation open and being present and having real conversations with people has got to be one way of saying, hey, you know, so I met this guy and I know he has a method.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:33.279
And, you know, based on what you're telling me, I think I think he might be able to help you.
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:42.640
But we've got to have those conversations where people aren't acting like they're okay all the time and where they recognize that this is hard.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:50.240
And by you telling your story, you're giving them permission to feel those feelings that you felt before.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.359
Absolutely.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:55.200
You're giving their struggle a voice.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:57.680
Well, that's the goal of the book.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.079
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.799
And I think that will be like, oh, that is exactly what I'm feeling.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.119
That's exactly what I'm going through.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:07.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.680
That's that's how most people who come to work with me find me.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.000
They see the videos on YouTube that I publish about my story and the story of my clients, and say, Wow, this is like me.
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:19.839
And nobody's talking about it.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:27.519
Because when you have this feeling, you just go, you just don't meet people and say, you know, I'm feeling that I have a lot of glass or an invisible buyer.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:29.680
It doesn't make sense because you cannot see it.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:31.599
But it's a true experience.
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:39.440
And when you listen to the people who tell the story, um, you realize there's a lot of them and they just don't know how to talk about it.
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.839
And um, yeah, it doesn't have to be this way.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:48.000
Yeah, it doesn't have to be this way, and I think that's the biggest message because everybody wants to be seen.
00:30:48.319 --> 00:31:02.400
I mean, we all want to be seen and we all want to be understood, it's important, and not everybody's gonna understand us, but we all at least want to be seen and not just diagnosed or labeled with something, and then that's bad.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.039
And so you get a special helper in school to help make sure you stay on task or whatever.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:19.119
So this is huge because this process is actually healing, it actually heals the situation, and it's not a medication, and it doesn't have to be ongoing forever.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.119
So this is a great gift that you're bringing to the world.
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:37.680
So you are going to show us a little something about um in the opening, I mentioned that we were you were gonna share a little something with us, a way to kind of detect, yes.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:38.400
Yes.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:47.920
So you asked before when you're working with kids or with your partner, maybe how do you make sure that they do have this wall of glass if that matches the description?
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:53.039
So because this is something that you are born with, it feels completely normal.
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:56.720
That's why you cannot point at it and say, Yeah, that's a problem.
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:02.720
So this feeling of having a wall of glass invisible, you cannot touch it, but there is a test that you can do.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:13.359
So the test is to have somebody else be in front of you in the distance, maybe three meters in front of you, and approach the hand toward you.
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:21.440
And as they approach the hand, what will happen at first is you will just see the end but not feel the presence of the hand.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:32.319
And at some point, when the hand is getting closer, it will cross like a barrier in space, and you will feel, oh now I feel the presence of the hand.
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:33.839
It's in my space now.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:36.720
I can not just see it but feel it.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:41.119
And if it goes back away, you can just see but not feel.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:56.559
So there's a moment where you have the kinesthetic presence of the hand that you can feel, and it might be 10 or 20 centimeters centimeters away from your body, it might be very close to your skin, or for some people it was really far away, so it's very different.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:16.240
But there's a moment when you feel the the hand has crossed a bar, it has it's now in my space, in my bubble, and you might realize oh yes, I have this bubble or this shield or whatever you call it, and this is my space, and what's outside it feels like it's the outside world, basically.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:25.039
I cannot really feel it, so that's a big difference, and you have to do it with um the right side of your body instead of the left side because there might be a difference.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.880
It's very interesting to see it uh react with very easily.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.039
It's so interesting.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:46.880
So it's not just about your energy field, it's about where you is it about your energy field, like the six inches off your body, the 12 inches off your body, or is it just what's the word for it where it crosses you and become aware of it?
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:48.000
What's the word?
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:55.440
Um well, it's it's not really your energetic field, it's more, it's just the barrier itself.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.759
Because people who don't have it, they have a continuity of perception.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:05.200
They can feel, yeah, there's something in my environment, it's far away, but I can feel its presence more or less.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:06.240
Well, okay.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:15.599
When you do the hand test, you can feel clearly, oh, there's a specific moment, specific area and space where it crosses into my space.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:18.960
You can feel there's like that's the fire.
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:20.239
That's the one of us.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:21.440
Wow, okay.
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.800
So that's the difference between somebody who has the wall and doesn't it?
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:32.480
They feel they can actually sense that there's a wall between there and there at a certain and do both sides.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.960
And another person does it because I've been having um after you shared it with me, I've had a couple of my kids do it.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.039
And uh it's interesting, yeah.
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:41.840
We'll talk.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.480
You might be hearing from some people.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:35:02.960
So where I mean, after all these years of studying and working and your life before, I mean, right now you're in a great place with your life, you're living in Bali, right?
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.920
The love of your life, new baby.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:07.440
I mean, life is good.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:18.320
What have you learned about why you're here and just humans, humanity in general from your experience?
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.119
What why do you think you're here?
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.039
Oh, big question.
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.840
Um, well, I will tell you something very personal then.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:37.599
Um, when I was a kid, I looked at the world, you know, through my vision, which there was a lot of uh it was very puzzling to me.
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:38.639
Why is the world this way?
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.000
And especially why isn't there more love in the world?
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.079
And um, when I was a kid, I used to go to church because my parents were Christian.
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.480
So I mean, you go to church and learn this.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.760
I mean, when I was in church, I learned, yeah, we need to love each other, to forgive each other, peace, understanding.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.039
I love that message.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:01.039
But when I went out of the earth and looked at the world, I thought, wow, there's so much misunderstanding and disconnection.
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:02.400
Why is it this way?
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:18.559
And I've always felt you know, the ultimate purpose of my life is to try to learn about this and find how we can connect and understand each other better, how can we create more peace and more love in the world, and uh it's really amazing, really.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:22.559
But this feeling of having a world class was a piece of other.
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:30.159
So now when I get people to break free free from it, it does bring more love and more understanding in the world.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:33.519
Yes, it's just one piece, of course, but it's important.
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.639
And you are bringing more love and understanding to the world.
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.599
That is so beautiful, yeah.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.199
Okay, I'm just so grateful that I met you.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:46.079
I really am.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:53.840
I have to thank Zach for introducing us again because you're such a gift and you're gonna help so many, you've already helped so many people.
00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.000
And for those people who want to find you, what's the best way for them to reach you?
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.480
And we'll do links in the show notes, but just tell them verbally too.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.760
What's the best way?
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:06.559
Sure.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:13.840
So my website is uh gatorclan.com, so that's my name, G-A-E-T-A-N-K-L-E-I-N.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:21.519
And there's an English and a French version specifically for people who are interested in the wall of glass uh concept.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:33.599
There's a there's a web page where I have case studies of testimonials of people I work with that I write down, and it's in it's on datontime.com/slash wall of glass.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:34.719
Very simple.
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:54.480
So the best way, if you recognize yourself in the descriptions that I get, if you want to know more about this and the expense of people, whether it's for you or your kids, I love working with kids or for your spouse, very important because when when in a couple one of them has a wall of glass and the other not, oh my god, so much misunderstanding and headaches.
00:37:54.880 --> 00:38:01.840
And uh couple therapy don't really address this because if there is a school between you, then it creates misunderstanding.
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.119
So I explained all of this um on the website.
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.840
So yes, uh, that's the best way to reach me, gateonclan.com slash wall of glass.
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.320
Okay, all right.
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.960
Well, what final message do you want to give to people?
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.679
Like, what's the last thing you want to say on this podcast?
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:21.920
What do you want to be remembered for?
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:27.920
Um, things can change and uh never let go.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:33.840
If you have a goal in life, keep working on it, keep keep moving forward, keep cooking.
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.639
The life wants you to find the answer.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.960
Well, it wish you'd find the answer.
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:44.880
And you definitely have, and you're helping other people find their answer.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.320
So that's such a great way to bring love into the world.
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:54.960
And had you not been born with this, you probably would have found another way, but this is a really needed way right now.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.280
This is a really needed way right now.
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:02.800
So I think your greatest we talked about this are you know, end up being your greatest gifts, right?
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:04.719
The crack is where the light gets in.
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.360
Yes, literally, right?
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.159
Or the break in the wall is where the light gets in.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:11.920
So, okay, all right.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.480
Well, thank you so much again for your time.
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:23.679
And we will be probably having another conversation, and I hope you're hearing from people soon because you're gonna help a lot of people with this podcast.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:24.400
Thank you.
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:34.159
Thank you, but thank you so much, and uh yeah, choose the best to everybody, and uh I'm really happy to meet people and have conversation if that's resonates.
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:36.559
So thank you so much.
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:38.559
Thank you, take care