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Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between.
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I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science.
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And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC, Terrace Tennette, a leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode.
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So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here, and thank you for joining us on the trail.
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Hey everybody, back to Trail Talks.
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Welcome back, Terra.
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Hey, glad to be back.
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All right, what are we talking about today?
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We are talking about success traps.
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Oh, I love this topic.
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When your strengths become your ceiling.
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Yes.
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What if the very things that made you successful are the same things preventing your next level of growth?
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Whatever got you here, could it get you there?
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Yeah.
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So when your greatest strengths become some of your biggest limitations.
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Because we go from being the doer to the leader to then developing one of leadership's greatest like paradoxes, though, that they don't really prepare you for.
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And like the habits that got you earned you recognition, or the habits that got you to promote habits that even make everyone trust you.
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Sometimes those have to change in order for us to succeed.
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Yeah, let's start with some of them.
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So I want to kind of go through some of the success traps.
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I looked up, there were three people.
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One I'm going to talk about, Marshall Goldsmith.
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No book who got you here won't get you there.
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Yeah, I was gonna get back.
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So good.
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So good.
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I was watching YouTube today.
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The behaviors that create early success often become barriers to higher leadership.
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Then, of course, John C.
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Maxwell is all about intentional growth, developing the leaders around you, and um, the Peter principle, every promotion requires a new set of skills.
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Yesterday's strengths are not always enough for tomorrow's responsibilities.
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And then we can kind of talk about personally, maybe where we have been trapped in that success.
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And then even now, in my current position, in my current assignment, like I definitely had to leave some things behind.
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And I think in every couple of years we're doing that.
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Um, whether we're in a different position or assignment or a promotion or taking on new responsibilities, we're finding that some things need to be left behind, and it requires us to up-level ourselves.
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Yeah.
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But it takes intentional focus and reflection and feedback from others to realize that there's a lot of self-awareness involved in this.
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So let's start with this one is heart, the hard work trap.
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Oh, yes.
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Look, this was me many years ago.
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Yes, you gotta work hard, you gotta work hard.
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Yes, and I think we talked about that a little bit on one of the other podcasts about how we're bringing work home, and we think the more hours we're working, the the more successful we're gonna be.
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But really, you're just leading yourself to burnout.
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Just work now, it's more of smart work, not hard.
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Like I want to work smart, I want to have systems, I want to have processes.
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Yeah, harder isn't always smarter, that's for sure.
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Yeah, so that's the hard work trap.
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Hard work has diminishing returns.
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Early success all often comes from individual effort.
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It's the individual that works hard.
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Another one is success creates blind spots.
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So the danger isn't failure, the danger is succeeding with habits that eventually become limitations.
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It could be being the lone wolf.
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I've always done it myself.
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That's tough.
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You know, that if you're used to doing the hard work and if you're used to doing independent projects and then it's time to collaborate.
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I mean, really, at our point as leaders, our responsibilities are not to know everything.
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It would be great if we had all the answers.
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But right, the reality is we don't, but it's more of I know for me it's developing other leaders, yeah, creating clarity for them and in helping inspire and empower them.
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Yeah, it's more of a leader's responsibility versus having all the answers and doing it all.
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Yeah, I was looking into this um research framework.
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It's called High Functioning Survival Mode Framework, HFSM T M or whatever, from a doc Dr.
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Samantha Ray Dickinson.
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And she talks about how productivity equals safety.
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She specifically does this research on women and a very successful women and how they become they end up adapting or relating productivity to safety.
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So the more I do, the safer I am, the safer I feel.
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And it looks like success from the outside.
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I have to do all of this work.
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I have to keep up with everyone around me.
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If I want it done right, I'm gonna I need to do it.
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So she does a lot of research on that and how people a lot it's makes basically high-achieving women.
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Um, they equate it with safety, stability, value, belonging.
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Um, and they think that it's all earned through performance.
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What are your examples?
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I can see that.
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I can see it too.
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I definitely see that.
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I I mean there's a couple things that stood out to me.
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Productivity equals safety.
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On the other side of that, are we being productive or are we just being busy?
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And then the performance piece of it.
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Yeah.
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Why do we feel like we need to perform?
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And this goes into my last assignment when I mean I could have I could have been in the classroom teaching and facilitating probably a lot more than what I was, but but I also realized I couldn't be in the performance phase all the time because as a leader, you're not there to perform, you're there to develop other people and empower them to do it.
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So I understand that participation equal safety, and I also understand the performance piece because we do feel like we need to perform, but at this level, it really is about encouraging others to perform and us guiding them.
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Am I tracking that?
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Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
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I was gonna say it's funny we were just talking about this.
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Um, I was talking about with a co-worker, she's now a director and she hates it.
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She's like, I hate my job.
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She was like, I and I thought she always loved her job, but she hates it because she's the director and she can't do what she loves to do, which is being out there instructing and doing walkabouts.
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She's like, I have to sit back here and do admin work now, and I have to trust my team to do it.
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She hates it.
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It's tough.
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It really is.
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It's tough.
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It's tough to get out of that stage, but there is so many benefits to outgrowing that stage in your new role because you you now are in the as a director, you're now in the systems role, you're in the process role, you're in the leading role.
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It's yeah, it's more strategic.
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So I guess it's it's really comes down to what that leader prefers.
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Are they more of a doer and getting in the weeds, or can they balance both?
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Because you can, you can, you can do both.
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Yeah.
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Oh, yeah, let's talk about that.
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So productivity versus busy.
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Yeah.
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I don't know where to start with that.
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Because that's different too, because as you climb the ladder and you get into more leadership roles, you have to balance, and we we teach the five gears.
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You have to balance which gear you're gonna be in, you know, are you gonna be in sitting behind your desk answering emails all day, or are you gonna be in a planning, planning role or socialization, you know, connection role?
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I mean, you can just be sitting there answering emails all day, but is that productive?
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Are you just looking busy doing something?
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You can't do everything.
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Some things will have to, some things will have to wait, not be ignored, but some things will have to wait as we prioritize.
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Yeah, that kind of goes into the delegation piece of this, and also um always saying yes to everything.
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Because we've talked about before with my um book that our brains actually don't do well at multitasking, it's not a real thing.
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And so we can say yes, yes, yes, and we talk about how if you stop me in the middle of something, it takes us so many minutes or whatever to get back on track with that, and so you can't just keep saying yes, yes, yes, and you have to be good at delegating.
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And I guess that's where I see the productivity.
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Like, are things being completed?
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Not necessarily by me, but by my team.
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Did I delegate things out so that we can because that's actual productivity?
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Things are being completed, even if it's not by me.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, and you said a couple things we can dig in there.
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The yes, saying yes to everything.
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That's another trap.
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So we talk about success traps.
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We had the hard work trap that hard work is it's not cool anymore, you know.
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Yeah, it's work smart, the lone wolf.
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That's I can do it better than anyone else, and I'm used to doing it independently.
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And then we have the yes trap, which is we say yes to everything.
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Delegation can feel a little risky.
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Yeah, I have gotten so me in my the position I'm in now in my leadership, that was something I was always good at delegating, but when I empowered my team to do well, yeah.
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Like they literally still be like, Hey, can you come and look at this?
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What do you what are your thoughts on this?
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Can I why are you asking me?
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I asked you to complete a task, I trust you to get it done.
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I don't need to be over your shoulder to view it.
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I trust you.
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And like that goes a really long way.
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But that is something that um that's a skill that I had to better develop in the role that I'm in now.
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It's tough.
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And I think you have to apply a certain level of risk in what you delegate.
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It's it's as a leader or a manager, you know, CEO, whatever, you're usually our job is to provide intent.
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It's intent and the desired outcome.
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And then let your teammates or your employees figure out the how.
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And if you feel very nervous about the how, then provide some left and right limits, you know, provide some recommendations and suggestions, otherwise, let them do the how and give them feedback.
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One thing that Marshall Goldsmith talked about was adding too much value to something.
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So, say if somebody came to you and said, Hey, how about this idea?
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That's what we want.
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We want people to come up with ideas.
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Well, how about this idea?
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And they share the idea and you say, Well, that's great.
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And how about you add this and this?
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Well, now, because you're wanting to add more value to that idea, you just you may add five percent value, but you're taking away 50% of the passion that person had.
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That's interesting.
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Isn't that so interesting?
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That is very interesting because I catch myself doing that, and it's about listening.
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That's another thing that when when we climb the ladder, we go in different positions and we grow as leaders, we have to get better at listening.
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And so when somebody says, Hey, I have this idea, how about this?
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And okay, like just listen, just shut up and listen, and don't provide that feedback because then you just you just took their passion away.
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Yeah, for what for five percent of value into a project.
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So something you could have left out, something, yeah.
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How important was it when maybe this person would have figured it out along the way?
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Or you let them get excited, you let them share their idea, and you let them start, and then maybe halfway through they're gonna say, Hey, what do you think?
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What do you think?
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And then that's when you that's when you provide feedback, not right away, because right away then you're it's you're gonna you're gonna kill that spark.
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Yeah, that's really, really interesting.
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But going back to the saying yes, no, to everything, we mistake availability for value when we do that.
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Explain what do you mean?
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We mistake availability for value.
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So the more you say yes, the more value you're adding, and the more people value you as a person, and that's where that success trap kind of stems from.
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You think, oh, I have to do this, I have to be available, I have to say yes, I can't say no, but you're mistaking that for value, and it's really not.
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What comes at the expense of the yes?
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Well, then you're saying no to something else, which could be something that's gonna yeah, yep, exactly.
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Priorities, your own health piece.
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Yes.
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When you say yes, you're saying no to something else, you're sacrificing something else.
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So we've had the hard work trap, the lone wolf trap, the yes trap, and then the control trap, which is because we are competent in what we do, we have a hard time delegating.
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Yeah.
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And going back to the risk thing, it's you make that assessment as the leader.
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Is it risky that I just let a team figure out the how?
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I gave them the desired outcome, I gave them the intent.
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They understand that clear intent.
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Let them figure out the how.
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Yeah, I was just helping one of my troops came up with this really great idea and I was like, run with it.
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And then once you completed it, he's like, Will you look over it and give me some feedback?
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And I'm like, Yeah, he asked for it though.
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And then after that, I just had to show him how to make it legal.
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It was like an assessment or a questionnaire, and so now he he did the work part.
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Now I'm showing him and teaching him how to make this legal, just little things like that.
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He did the hard part, he did the work and it was great.
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Yeah, and he probably felt so great about the work that he did.
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Absolutely.
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The next one, you you kind of alluded to this before when we want to feel valued and the needing to be needed.
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That is the approval trap.
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Yeah.
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Keep doing and doing, then we're gonna be needed.
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And I think you know that's how I was at one point many years ago.
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But and some of it was by virtue of work being put on me, but some of it was also me doing it, and then before you knew it, it was a single point of failure.
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Yeah, I actually for that high performance, the high-functioning survival mode framework.
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One thing that they point out is that so another trap is giving the work to someone because they're good at it, quote unquote.
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And so you just keep piloting on, pile it on because they're reliable, they're good at it.
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You know it's going to be done correctly, right?
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But we also need to pay attention to the environment that we're building that make people go into the survival mode or make people think that productivity is safety, the environment and what we do is also part of these traps.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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Some leaders build their identity around being indispensable, and it's gonna catch up.
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Oh, yeah.
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Um, one thing I've been emphasizing is the systems, it's building things that are repeatable and sustainable.
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And I mean, we've both been a part of organizations where sometimes we try to do things very big and that take a lot of work, yeah, and a lot of effort, and it could be a one-time thing.
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And when one of us leaves, it may not be done again because it wasn't sustainable and it wasn't repeatable.
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And that's how we need to think, especially in the work that we do, is have a playbook that anybody could pick it up and move it along.
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And I mean, look where we find ourselves every couple of years.
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It's it just keeps going back and going back.
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And we say, Oh, we got to get back to basics.
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But I'm really big on simplicity as well, because I need other people to be able to figure it out.
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If I'm the only one that can run the system or drive the train, that's not good.
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And a project that I'm working now, they are making it way harder than what it should be.
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It's we do it all the time.
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There's already systems in place.
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We all just need to collaborate and come together and put it on to paper.
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That's it.
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It yeah, I I I and I think that's another thing, and and we've already talked about it, but it's such a big part of this is growth as a leader needs to be also about process.
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We we need to be process-minded.
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Um, yeah, because there's so many, and we always talk about this, there are so many things that are uncertain, and there are so many unforeseen circumstances out there, and there will be.
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Control what you can control within yourselves and your organization and build a system, build processes that are repeatable and sustainable.
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Because guess what?
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Then you could put your energy toward so many other things, you're gonna need it.
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And as we talked about in one of our episodes, there there is such a thing as energy depletion throughout the day and what you're applying energy toward.
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:40.799
Um so when you have processes, sound processes in place, it just helps put your energy toward other things, right?
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.440
Healthy leaders build people who no longer need them every day.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:46.160
I love that.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:47.119
I do too.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.920
I think that's something that I learned from you from way back when we were at right path.
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:59.119
Like you I always say you just let us go and you delegate it, and you know, just have at it and bring it to me when you're done.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.200
But because you did that, we could function without you, really.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.279
One of the questions on Yeah, but you could you guys could.
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.440
We went a lot of places without me.
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:17.039
Remember, you I would say, go, yeah, go do this, go rent a van and go wherever and put things together and go on this exercise, you guys.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.759
El Salvador, Alaska, all these places.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.960
And I said, Yeah, let them go, figure it out.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:32.160
Yes, one of the reflection questions that um was over in our notes is um, Am I building a team or am I or building dependence on me?
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.039
If I disappeared for two weeks, would my team fall apart?
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.559
I think those are good ones.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.799
You know what I think I wanted, and that's the nurture in me.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.839
I wanted dependency, but almost like like your guys' mom.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.880
Yeah, that's what I wanted.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:50.799
Yeah.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.160
Oh, you were a mom.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.400
I didn't want you to rely on me for the work.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.039
I just wanted to be as careful.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:58.480
All right.
00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.480
So the next one is also about delegation.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.680
When leaders refuse to delegate, they often communicate.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.119
I this is about trust.
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.680
I trust myself more than I trust you.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.279
I know I have fallen into that trap several times.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.960
Yeah, I think I've probably fallen into all of them at least mentioned.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.279
So I would start with, and this is typically how I operate.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.759
It's I trust until I don't trust.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:30.480
Like I'm not, I don't go into a situation, into a work environment where I'm like, I don't trust anybody.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.880
I guess, you know, it's no, I'm gonna be pretty open.
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.960
I trust until I no longer trust.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.279
So I will kind of do it.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:42.799
Yeah, I will allow them to figure that out, but it's the undermining.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:21:04.640
That's where I've had a problem, and that's where I start to not delegate and not trust is if I allow the how to happen and I provide the intent and an expectation, but then along the way I'm undermined, then that's where I kind of have to start over again and I lose that trust.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.359
Yeah, everybody's different, not everybody's like that.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:20.480
And just because maybe somebody undermined doesn't mean the next person will and there was some reflection in there too that maybe I should have provided clear intent out of them.
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:23.119
Sometimes I think we're clear when we're not.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:29.759
Yeah, what opportunity am I stealing from someone by refusing to let them grow?
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.119
That's good.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.759
Yeah, and and the thing is, is they may not even realize it.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:45.599
Usually the doers, our employees, they don't realize it might be an opportunity, but it's up to us to explain that.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:46.480
Exactly.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:22:02.880
We know that humans want to do meaningful work, yeah, want to feel valued, they want to feel like they're you know meeting the mission and fulfilling a Purpose, they all want that.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.960
And we have to give them as many opportunities as possible.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:25.519
Rutgers was doing a study on this as well, and um they said that's when when we overly saturate someone with tasks by because they're good at it, or we don't do the delegation piece, we drive our workers, and workers go from driving success to undermining it.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:40.000
So they you know you get kind of frustrated and you know and upset and don't want to work for the company anymore and don't want to do your best because you probably were under um undervalued, or yeah, you were the person that got all of the work all the time.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:45.039
Yeah, it's up to us to really kind of you know spark that motivation sometimes.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:23:00.880
We don't know what people have been through in their past work environment, but we need to know how to pull that out of them, and they and it's also gonna be uncomfortable for them and discomfort is fine.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.559
That's where all the growing work happens.
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:18.160
Yeah, but they don't know that sometimes they don't know that, they just they shy away from it because it feels uncomfortable and it could be they could be challenged or they don't know how.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:22.319
No, we're gonna help you and we can you and we have faith in you.
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:23.920
Oh, this is one of my favorites.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:26.319
So we I I talked about this today.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.480
God, I've been saying this a lot lately.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.599
John Maxwell is is always talking about this too.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.519
Growth is not accidental.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:46.400
So whenever we want to improve something as we develop into the leaders we want to be, where there's always got to be some sort of goal.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.880
What are we working toward?
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:54.400
And that goes for really any workplace workforce.
00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.880
That how do we ensure that that we have a growth plan?
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:05.440
Like how how are we developing that plan from year to year?
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:13.599
I know you're doing the same job every year, yeah, for about four years, we're doing the same job three to four years.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:31.279
But are we deliberately looking at ourselves and leaders looking at their team saying, This is what we'd like you to work on in the next year, and in the next year, and in the next year, you gotta know where you are and know where you want to be and fill in the gap.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:38.079
Yeah, because um, like we said earlier, every level every level of leadership asks a new version of you.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.839
Pretty yeah, yeah, this was a good question.
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:49.279
If you were still in your current role, one of the biggest mistakes people make is believing growth only happens with promotion.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.519
Like I just got promoted and I'm I'm a leader now.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.319
Yeah.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.960
Some people spend 10 years in the same position and become 10 years better.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.720
Others spend 10 years repeating year one 10 times.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:08.079
So if you're still in your current role three years from now, would you be dramatically better than you are today?
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:23.200
Even without promotion, you can grow in communication, emotional intelligence, coaching, delegation, strategic thinking, public speaking, relationships, mentoring, influence, and innovation.
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:24.720
That's good.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:32.240
Yeah, I mean, it's even looking at those and seeing, okay, where where can I grow in the next year?
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.839
I know for me, it's I gotta be better at asking questions.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.440
It's the coaching part.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.480
Really?
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:43.039
In in the yeah, in the workplace, not providing answers.
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.640
Yeah, it's yeah, very it's very hard.
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:56.240
That's for everybody that asking questions is very difficult because if you have the answers, you just you want to give the answer because you you have the answer.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:58.160
You want to be the smartest person in the room.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:58.960
And what do we say?
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.200
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:12.880
Yeah, so it's about asking the questions and having other people solve the problem, having other people answer the questions, it's being curious.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.559
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.319
I would say mine is similar, but it's fixing everything.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.440
I'm a fixer.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:20.640
It's an easy fix.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:21.839
Give it to me, I'll do it.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.359
Like, you know what I mean?
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:28.480
It's along the same lines of letting them come up with the answer and asking more questions.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.559
But I yeah, I will I will have a way to fix something in two seconds.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:39.039
If you depending on what it is, I have well, I have a solution for that, but I I can't keep giving solutions.
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:51.200
Yeah, because then that's when I fall into the word trap of doing everyone else's job, getting all of the workload dropped on me, and not saying no enough, or not just redirecting.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:56.960
Yeah, it's not even no, it's just redirecting, let them know who is actually responsible for it so that I don't end up doing it.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.240
I'm solution-based.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.599
It's gonna keep happening.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:07.680
If if you continue to answer the questions and then be the fixer, they're gonna get used to that, and you're gonna continue to do it.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.319
Yeah, so that's something I've been working on.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.160
Yeah, it's tough.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:24.880
Okay, now what those were the seven I had stagnation trap, comfort trap, hard work trap, lone wolf trap, yes trap, control trap, and the approval trap.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.599
Yeah, but I have pretty much the same ones.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.839
Why do we struggle to say no?
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:31.359
People pleasing?
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.680
I'm not a people pleaser.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:40.240
I enjoy I think for me, I feel value when I when people trust me to do stuff.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.519
Here we go.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.240
That was a good reflection that I'm like, I want to help them, I want to, you know, do it.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.279
So I don't say I struggle to say no.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:57.839
Yeah, you will you feel it's a compliment, I guess, if people ask you to do something.
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.680
Have you ever said yes to something you immediately regretted?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:02.880
Yes.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:08.880
Uh yes, I'm the one that came up with the idea and then I regret it.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.480
Yes.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:17.839
Okay, what's a habit that made you successful early in your career that you later had to unlearn?
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:25.039
I think it it's it's the hard work piece, it's taking work home, it's it's obsessing over work.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:36.400
And that probably started back in in my silver flag days where it was I was relentless, burning both ends of the candle.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:47.599
When I wasn't at work, it was taking the books home and studying and learning everything I possibly can, um, and then doing things out in the community.
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:52.319
I mean, it was I don't know what I was trying to prove.
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:57.920
I definitely, for a lot of my career, got a chip on my shoulder, and I was very competitive.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.799
Um, I wanted to be the best.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:05.039
Um, so I think for that, and then that that carried through the right pad.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:09.599
I mean, you guys saw how I worked, and it was non-stop.
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:22.240
So I would say it's it's it was unlearning, and I don't know what the phrase is, not the working hard, but I think I think the fact that working long hours isn't cool anymore.
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.160
Yeah, definitely.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:29.039
I can see that that work in that crazy work will be there.
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:37.200
The work it's not going anywhere, yeah, the work will be there, and so you've you learn to prioritize, you learn to say no.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:43.920
Some emails, if it's just information, I don't need to look, I'll put it away and read it later.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:54.799
Um yeah, so I I think it's I think it's just that it's learning that Erica Kelly says it all the time the machine moves on.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.799
Yeah, the machine is designed to move on.
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:06.960
You do what you can while you're there, which is moving the needle and leaving a place better than you found it, but you don't I think that's real success.
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.960
Yes, it truly is.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:22.880
You don't have to do it all, you don't have to do all these huge things, it's finding a healthy balance, and I think that also has to do with knowing who you are and your identity and your own purpose.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:32.720
Yeah, it's crazy because all those things that you said, if you're in a certain part of your career, life or whatever, you wouldn't think that's a bad thing.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.319
That you wanted to learn every single thing that you could, that you were out in the community.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.960
Those sound great, but you had to move on from that as you progressed throughout your career.
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:47.680
And yes, we saw you work like that, but we were the doers at the time, so to us, we that's what you were supposed to be doing.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:31:12.880
We didn't see anything wrong with it because we were those doers, but it wasn't no, it's not healthy, no, but I mean I I know that now back then I didn't, and I think another thing is, and I love the five gears, and I think we should talk about the five gears another episode, but and I don't even remember what all five are, but it's it's understanding what gear you need to be in to perform well, whatever position you're in.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:21.920
And in mine, it's it's making sure I'm in certain gears and certain times, it's understanding that I cannot be in a social gear all the time.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.519
And there are times when, believe it or not, I actually want to socialize.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:28.640
Oh, and I'm like, oh no, I can't.
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.359
I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta go, you know.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:39.839
And it's pulling out of that gear and then going into a productivity gear where I actually need to focus on administrative things.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.640
And oh, by the way, I need to get into another gear.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:48.480
And so I I think that's so important, and we could do a whole podcast episode on that because it's a fun one.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:49.440
Yeah.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:50.640
What about you?
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:52.720
So, what what was something you had to unlearn?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.720
I think it's the saying yes to everything.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:55.599
Yeah.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.640
Well, what about perfectionism?
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.480
I definitely had to unlearn that.
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:14.799
100% had to, and a prop how to properly take feedback because in my career field for corporate, a lot of times I'm building their corporate training plan and program from scratch.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.720
And I have to take it to the director.
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:25.759
And I'm not I'm so grateful for my old director, um, Athena, because she would literally chop my head off.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:27.599
She'd be like, Nope, take it back.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:28.400
Nope, take it.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.759
I mean, it at first I'm like, gosh, why is she being so rude?
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:32.559
But I needed it.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.480
She was like, no, this is not what I wanted.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.599
Um, you need to fix that.
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.359
There's a typo there, this, that, and the third.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.799
I'll take it back to the drawing board.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:50.640
But it was just very helpful because when you're an instructor and you teach a lot and you're doing corporate training, you have to be able to digest the feedback that you get at the end of your class.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.440
And that was really difficult for me because I'm a perfectionist.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.240
It is, it's very difficult, that sort of feedback.
00:32:56.319 --> 00:33:02.160
And it's like rework, and you got to go back and you feel you really got to control your emotions.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.720
Yeah.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:04.559
It's tough in the moment.
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:10.160
Um, but it, but then it, you know, you realize holy cow, like this actually helped me.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.119
Tough loss.
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:13.039
For sure.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:19.039
What's something you've learned to protect that you didn't protect five years ago?
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:20.640
That's a good question.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.039
Yeah, I'm trying to think of my answer.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:24.079
Yeah.
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:27.680
And honestly, I would say for me, probably identity.
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:29.839
You've always been good with that.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.039
For me, I I wasn't.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.160
So I would say my identity and pieces in there too, but probably my identity more than that.
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.359
Especially happen time to myself and learning me.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:47.279
I think maybe cutting it off, like cutting, not bringing it home.
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:48.000
Yeah.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:48.799
Yeah.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.440
I've gotten better actually this year.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:54.400
For the last four years, I feel like I was just constantly going.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:57.839
And my mom would be like, But you why are you why do you have your laptop at the dinner table?
00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:59.119
I'm like, it's gonna take me a second.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.640
I just have to send this email.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:02.960
And she's like, You shouldn't do that.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:09.199
I always have my laptop with me still, but it's because the nature of my job, but also I don't have to log on.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.960
I don't every day I don't have to.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.360
Yeah, somebody calls me and asked for something, okay.
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.280
And you guys are always on.
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.000
Yeah.
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:17.760
Here are a couple questions.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.760
Light, funny questions, because we'll wrap up here soon.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.320
Kind of ties to the episode.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.320
Some things that maybe we liked back then that we don't like now.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.239
What's a food you loved as a kid but can't stand now?
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.400
Prunes.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:39.760
Prunes?
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:41.360
What the hell?
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:46.719
Your mommy, your mom got prunes.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:54.800
Yes, I used to walk around with a bag of prunes, eating them, but now I can't stand them.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:55.920
Oh my god.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:00.000
That was the only thing I could think of for real, because I'm I would pretty much eat the same things.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.719
That's good.
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.280
That's good.
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.280
I would say for me, it's like ham.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:04.639
Like, I don't know why.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.360
I can't, I don't don't give me a ham sandwich.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.559
Like when I was younger, my parents made me a ham sandwich.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:11.920
I need it, I'd be fine.
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.400
Thanksgiving, and ham now.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.320
It's like, I don't know, something about it.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:18.159
Like, I don't don't give me ham.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.519
There's probably other ones too, but that one just keep in mind.
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:22.960
Ah, this is good.
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.320
And I already have my answer.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.960
What's a phrase people use that instantly annoys you?
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.480
We can go on and on not to piggyback.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.480
I hate a piggybacker.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.280
Oh my god.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.880
Because you're piggybacking.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.880
I can't stand it.
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:41.119
I heard that today somewhere.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.239
Somebody said I was like, I might have said it.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.719
I don't know.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.559
Sometimes I do say it.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.079
What's yours?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.000
You're not wrong.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.159
Well, then I'm right.
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.000
You're not wrong.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.280
Okay, all right.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.960
Well, then just say I'm right.
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.159
I don't know, but don't say I'm not wrong.
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:01.760
You're not wrong.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.599
Why do people say that?
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.519
Yeah, that's like a slap in the face.
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.599
Like they're just their ego's too big and won't allow them to say you were right.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:13.599
I was like, you're not wrong.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.920
Yeah, well, then that means I'm right.
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.000
Oh well boy, so funny.
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.360
Um oh, here's a random question.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:37.920
Since Joey Chestnut won another Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest over the 4th of July, what food could you probably eat way too much of if there were a competition?
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:39.519
Watermelon.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.320
Really?
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.119
Watermelon?
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.320
Yeah, I love watermelon.
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:42.719
Good.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.320
I don't really get to know.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.400
I don't know what mine would be.
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:47.920
Chicken wings.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.119
Wouldn't I guess?
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.039
Not from Buffalo or anything, are you?
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.800
It'd probably be wings.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.000
Buffalo.
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.000
And I can eat a lot of pizza too.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:57.119
Okay, that's it.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.239
I have some quotes for I have something for closing though.
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:01.360
Close it out.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:02.320
Give a quote.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:03.039
All right.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.000
All right.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:05.360
In closing, that's it.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.880
No, we just need to read where the greatest leaders eventually realize something.
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:14.000
Your job isn't to be the smartest person in the room, your job is to build a room full of smart people.
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:15.679
Success got you here.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.920
Growth requires something different.
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:20.960
Don't become trapped by the habits that made you successful.
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:25.920
Evolve them because every new level of leadership asks a new version of you.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:27.039
Love it.
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:28.159
Thank you, Sarah.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.039
Thank you, everybody.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.119
We'll see you next time on Trail Talks.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.400
If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:45.360
I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one-on-one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.199
You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:50.639
Link in the show notes.
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:56.559
And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.
00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:08.480
Hey everyone, welcome back to Trail Talks, the podcast where we talk about growth, the messy, the beautiful, and everything in between.
00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:18.480
I'm your host, Kelly Kruger, founder of Kelly Michelle Coaching, where we focus on mindset, emotional intelligence, and leadership, all grounded in real life and real science.
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:31.440
And joining me is my co-host and partner in growth, founder of Leading People LLC, Terrace Tennette, a leadership trainer and facilitator who brings insight, curiosity, and real-world perspective to every episode.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:36.960
So wherever you're listening from today, we're glad you're here, and thank you for joining us on the trail.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.000
Hey everybody, back to Trail Talks.
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:43.119
Welcome back, Terra.
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.280
Hey, glad to be back.
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:47.600
All right, what are we talking about today?
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.320
We are talking about success traps.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.560
Oh, I love this topic.
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.679
When your strengths become your ceiling.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:56.799
Yes.
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What if the very things that made you successful are the same things preventing your next level of growth?
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Whatever got you here, could it get you there?
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:10.879
Yeah.
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.480
So when your greatest strengths become some of your biggest limitations.
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:25.120
Because we go from being the doer to the leader to then developing one of leadership's greatest like paradoxes, though, that they don't really prepare you for.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:33.519
And like the habits that got you earned you recognition, or the habits that got you to promote habits that even make everyone trust you.
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.959
Sometimes those have to change in order for us to succeed.
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:38.640
Yeah, let's start with some of them.
00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:43.599
So I want to kind of go through some of the success traps.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.000
I looked up, there were three people.
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One I'm going to talk about, Marshall Goldsmith.
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No book who got you here won't get you there.
00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.439
Yeah, I was gonna get back.
00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:54.560
So good.
00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:55.280
So good.
00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.040
I was watching YouTube today.
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The behaviors that create early success often become barriers to higher leadership.
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.120
Then, of course, John C.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:12.400
Maxwell is all about intentional growth, developing the leaders around you, and um, the Peter principle, every promotion requires a new set of skills.
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:16.000
Yesterday's strengths are not always enough for tomorrow's responsibilities.
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:24.800
And then we can kind of talk about personally, maybe where we have been trapped in that success.
00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:32.240
And then even now, in my current position, in my current assignment, like I definitely had to leave some things behind.
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:36.240
And I think in every couple of years we're doing that.
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:52.639
Um, whether we're in a different position or assignment or a promotion or taking on new responsibilities, we're finding that some things need to be left behind, and it requires us to up-level ourselves.
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:53.439
Yeah.
00:02:53.759 --> 00:03:04.879
But it takes intentional focus and reflection and feedback from others to realize that there's a lot of self-awareness involved in this.
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:10.719
So let's start with this one is heart, the hard work trap.
00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:12.639
Oh, yes.
00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.120
Look, this was me many years ago.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.560
Yes, you gotta work hard, you gotta work hard.
00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:28.400
Yes, and I think we talked about that a little bit on one of the other podcasts about how we're bringing work home, and we think the more hours we're working, the the more successful we're gonna be.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:30.479
But really, you're just leading yourself to burnout.
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Just work now, it's more of smart work, not hard.
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Like I want to work smart, I want to have systems, I want to have processes.
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Yeah, harder isn't always smarter, that's for sure.
00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:47.680
Yeah, so that's the hard work trap.
00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:49.759
Hard work has diminishing returns.
00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:54.319
Early success all often comes from individual effort.
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It's the individual that works hard.
00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:02.639
Another one is success creates blind spots.
00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:10.240
So the danger isn't failure, the danger is succeeding with habits that eventually become limitations.
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It could be being the lone wolf.
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I've always done it myself.
00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:15.520
That's tough.
00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:23.759
You know, that if you're used to doing the hard work and if you're used to doing independent projects and then it's time to collaborate.
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:31.920
I mean, really, at our point as leaders, our responsibilities are not to know everything.
00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.560
It would be great if we had all the answers.
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But right, the reality is we don't, but it's more of I know for me it's developing other leaders, yeah, creating clarity for them and in helping inspire and empower them.
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Yeah, it's more of a leader's responsibility versus having all the answers and doing it all.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.079
Yeah, I was looking into this um research framework.
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:10.000
It's called High Functioning Survival Mode Framework, HFSM T M or whatever, from a doc Dr.
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Samantha Ray Dickinson.
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And she talks about how productivity equals safety.
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:26.639
She specifically does this research on women and a very successful women and how they become they end up adapting or relating productivity to safety.
00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.879
So the more I do, the safer I am, the safer I feel.
00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.839
And it looks like success from the outside.
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I have to do all of this work.
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I have to keep up with everyone around me.
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If I want it done right, I'm gonna I need to do it.
00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:46.480
So she does a lot of research on that and how people a lot it's makes basically high-achieving women.
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Um, they equate it with safety, stability, value, belonging.
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:53.839
Um, and they think that it's all earned through performance.
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What are your examples?
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I can see that.
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I can see it too.
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I definitely see that.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.079
I I mean there's a couple things that stood out to me.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.240
Productivity equals safety.
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.360
On the other side of that, are we being productive or are we just being busy?
00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.639
And then the performance piece of it.
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Yeah.
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.399
Why do we feel like we need to perform?
00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:48.319
And this goes into my last assignment when I mean I could have I could have been in the classroom teaching and facilitating probably a lot more than what I was, but but I also realized I couldn't be in the performance phase all the time because as a leader, you're not there to perform, you're there to develop other people and empower them to do it.
00:06:48.639 --> 00:07:03.680
So I understand that participation equal safety, and I also understand the performance piece because we do feel like we need to perform, but at this level, it really is about encouraging others to perform and us guiding them.
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.120
Am I tracking that?
00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.120
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:09.360
I was gonna say it's funny we were just talking about this.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:14.079
Um, I was talking about with a co-worker, she's now a director and she hates it.
00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:15.519
She's like, I hate my job.
00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:26.240
She was like, I and I thought she always loved her job, but she hates it because she's the director and she can't do what she loves to do, which is being out there instructing and doing walkabouts.
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.240
She's like, I have to sit back here and do admin work now, and I have to trust my team to do it.
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:31.439
She hates it.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:32.639
It's tough.
00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:33.680
It really is.
00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:34.720
It's tough.
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:55.120
It's tough to get out of that stage, but there is so many benefits to outgrowing that stage in your new role because you you now are in the as a director, you're now in the systems role, you're in the process role, you're in the leading role.
00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:57.519
It's yeah, it's more strategic.
00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:03.279
So I guess it's it's really comes down to what that leader prefers.
00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:08.000
Are they more of a doer and getting in the weeds, or can they balance both?
00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.240
Because you can, you can, you can do both.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:11.040
Yeah.
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:12.639
Oh, yeah, let's talk about that.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.279
So productivity versus busy.
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:16.639
Yeah.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:18.319
I don't know where to start with that.
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:28.879
Because that's different too, because as you climb the ladder and you get into more leadership roles, you have to balance, and we we teach the five gears.
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:41.919
You have to balance which gear you're gonna be in, you know, are you gonna be in sitting behind your desk answering emails all day, or are you gonna be in a planning, planning role or socialization, you know, connection role?
00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.960
I mean, you can just be sitting there answering emails all day, but is that productive?
00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:49.360
Are you just looking busy doing something?
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:51.200
You can't do everything.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:09:00.799
Some things will have to, some things will have to wait, not be ignored, but some things will have to wait as we prioritize.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:06.799
Yeah, that kind of goes into the delegation piece of this, and also um always saying yes to everything.
00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:14.159
Because we've talked about before with my um book that our brains actually don't do well at multitasking, it's not a real thing.
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:28.559
And so we can say yes, yes, yes, and we talk about how if you stop me in the middle of something, it takes us so many minutes or whatever to get back on track with that, and so you can't just keep saying yes, yes, yes, and you have to be good at delegating.
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:30.879
And I guess that's where I see the productivity.
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.399
Like, are things being completed?
00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:34.799
Not necessarily by me, but by my team.
00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:40.480
Did I delegate things out so that we can because that's actual productivity?
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:44.080
Things are being completed, even if it's not by me.
00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:45.519
You know what I mean?
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:49.120
Yeah, and you said a couple things we can dig in there.
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.279
The yes, saying yes to everything.
00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.480
That's another trap.
00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:54.159
So we talk about success traps.
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:59.519
We had the hard work trap that hard work is it's not cool anymore, you know.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:03.039
Yeah, it's work smart, the lone wolf.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.440
That's I can do it better than anyone else, and I'm used to doing it independently.
00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:12.879
And then we have the yes trap, which is we say yes to everything.
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.200
Delegation can feel a little risky.
00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:30.799
Yeah, I have gotten so me in my the position I'm in now in my leadership, that was something I was always good at delegating, but when I empowered my team to do well, yeah.
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.279
Like they literally still be like, Hey, can you come and look at this?
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:34.720
What do you what are your thoughts on this?
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:36.480
Can I why are you asking me?
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.799
I asked you to complete a task, I trust you to get it done.
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.200
I don't need to be over your shoulder to view it.
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:42.159
I trust you.
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.720
And like that goes a really long way.
00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:51.120
But that is something that um that's a skill that I had to better develop in the role that I'm in now.
00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:52.080
It's tough.
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.639
And I think you have to apply a certain level of risk in what you delegate.
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:06.720
It's it's as a leader or a manager, you know, CEO, whatever, you're usually our job is to provide intent.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.639
It's intent and the desired outcome.
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:16.799
And then let your teammates or your employees figure out the how.
00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:35.200
And if you feel very nervous about the how, then provide some left and right limits, you know, provide some recommendations and suggestions, otherwise, let them do the how and give them feedback.
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:42.000
One thing that Marshall Goldsmith talked about was adding too much value to something.
00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.799
So, say if somebody came to you and said, Hey, how about this idea?
00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:47.600
That's what we want.
00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:49.759
We want people to come up with ideas.
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:51.919
Well, how about this idea?
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.759
And they share the idea and you say, Well, that's great.
00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.320
And how about you add this and this?
00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:14.080
Well, now, because you're wanting to add more value to that idea, you just you may add five percent value, but you're taking away 50% of the passion that person had.
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:15.759
That's interesting.
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.440
Isn't that so interesting?
00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:22.320
That is very interesting because I catch myself doing that, and it's about listening.
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:32.399
That's another thing that when when we climb the ladder, we go in different positions and we grow as leaders, we have to get better at listening.
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.000
And so when somebody says, Hey, I have this idea, how about this?
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:45.600
And okay, like just listen, just shut up and listen, and don't provide that feedback because then you just you just took their passion away.
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.759
Yeah, for what for five percent of value into a project.
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.000
So something you could have left out, something, yeah.
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:59.519
How important was it when maybe this person would have figured it out along the way?
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:07.600
Or you let them get excited, you let them share their idea, and you let them start, and then maybe halfway through they're gonna say, Hey, what do you think?
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.240
What do you think?
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:15.279
And then that's when you that's when you provide feedback, not right away, because right away then you're it's you're gonna you're gonna kill that spark.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:17.519
Yeah, that's really, really interesting.
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:26.159
But going back to the saying yes, no, to everything, we mistake availability for value when we do that.
00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:27.840
Explain what do you mean?
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.399
We mistake availability for value.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:39.840
So the more you say yes, the more value you're adding, and the more people value you as a person, and that's where that success trap kind of stems from.
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:48.320
You think, oh, I have to do this, I have to be available, I have to say yes, I can't say no, but you're mistaking that for value, and it's really not.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.279
What comes at the expense of the yes?
00:13:51.840 --> 00:14:00.799
Well, then you're saying no to something else, which could be something that's gonna yeah, yep, exactly.
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.000
Priorities, your own health piece.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:05.200
Yes.
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.519
When you say yes, you're saying no to something else, you're sacrificing something else.
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:21.519
So we've had the hard work trap, the lone wolf trap, the yes trap, and then the control trap, which is because we are competent in what we do, we have a hard time delegating.
00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:22.080
Yeah.
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:27.360
And going back to the risk thing, it's you make that assessment as the leader.
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.440
Is it risky that I just let a team figure out the how?
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.000
I gave them the desired outcome, I gave them the intent.
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.320
They understand that clear intent.
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:38.080
Let them figure out the how.
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.519
Yeah, I was just helping one of my troops came up with this really great idea and I was like, run with it.
00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.679
And then once you completed it, he's like, Will you look over it and give me some feedback?
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.679
And I'm like, Yeah, he asked for it though.
00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:52.799
And then after that, I just had to show him how to make it legal.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.799
It was like an assessment or a questionnaire, and so now he he did the work part.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.279
Now I'm showing him and teaching him how to make this legal, just little things like that.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.240
He did the hard part, he did the work and it was great.
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.159
Yeah, and he probably felt so great about the work that he did.
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:09.120
Absolutely.
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:17.279
The next one, you you kind of alluded to this before when we want to feel valued and the needing to be needed.
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.759
That is the approval trap.
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:20.320
Yeah.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.759
Keep doing and doing, then we're gonna be needed.
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.759
And I think you know that's how I was at one point many years ago.
00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:40.720
But and some of it was by virtue of work being put on me, but some of it was also me doing it, and then before you knew it, it was a single point of failure.
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.840
Yeah, I actually for that high performance, the high-functioning survival mode framework.
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:54.000
One thing that they point out is that so another trap is giving the work to someone because they're good at it, quote unquote.
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.440
And so you just keep piloting on, pile it on because they're reliable, they're good at it.
00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.120
You know it's going to be done correctly, right?
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:13.200
But we also need to pay attention to the environment that we're building that make people go into the survival mode or make people think that productivity is safety, the environment and what we do is also part of these traps.
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:23.039
Some leaders build their identity around being indispensable, and it's gonna catch up.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:24.720
Oh, yeah.
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:34.080
Um, one thing I've been emphasizing is the systems, it's building things that are repeatable and sustainable.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:47.759
And I mean, we've both been a part of organizations where sometimes we try to do things very big and that take a lot of work, yeah, and a lot of effort, and it could be a one-time thing.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:55.919
And when one of us leaves, it may not be done again because it wasn't sustainable and it wasn't repeatable.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:05.200
And that's how we need to think, especially in the work that we do, is have a playbook that anybody could pick it up and move it along.
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.480
And I mean, look where we find ourselves every couple of years.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.799
It's it just keeps going back and going back.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:12.960
And we say, Oh, we got to get back to basics.
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:18.400
But I'm really big on simplicity as well, because I need other people to be able to figure it out.
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.720
If I'm the only one that can run the system or drive the train, that's not good.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:29.680
And a project that I'm working now, they are making it way harder than what it should be.
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.440
It's we do it all the time.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:33.519
There's already systems in place.
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.519
We all just need to collaborate and come together and put it on to paper.
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:38.079
That's it.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:48.960
It yeah, I I I and I think that's another thing, and and we've already talked about it, but it's such a big part of this is growth as a leader needs to be also about process.
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:51.680
We we need to be process-minded.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:04.720
Um, yeah, because there's so many, and we always talk about this, there are so many things that are uncertain, and there are so many unforeseen circumstances out there, and there will be.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:15.039
Control what you can control within yourselves and your organization and build a system, build processes that are repeatable and sustainable.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:15.839
Because guess what?
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:20.799
Then you could put your energy toward so many other things, you're gonna need it.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:31.839
And as we talked about in one of our episodes, there there is such a thing as energy depletion throughout the day and what you're applying energy toward.
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:40.799
Um so when you have processes, sound processes in place, it just helps put your energy toward other things, right?
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.440
Healthy leaders build people who no longer need them every day.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:46.160
I love that.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:47.119
I do too.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.920
I think that's something that I learned from you from way back when we were at right path.
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:59.119
Like you I always say you just let us go and you delegate it, and you know, just have at it and bring it to me when you're done.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.200
But because you did that, we could function without you, really.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.279
One of the questions on Yeah, but you could you guys could.
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.440
We went a lot of places without me.
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:17.039
Remember, you I would say, go, yeah, go do this, go rent a van and go wherever and put things together and go on this exercise, you guys.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.759
El Salvador, Alaska, all these places.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.960
And I said, Yeah, let them go, figure it out.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:32.160
Yes, one of the reflection questions that um was over in our notes is um, Am I building a team or am I or building dependence on me?
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.039
If I disappeared for two weeks, would my team fall apart?
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.559
I think those are good ones.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.799
You know what I think I wanted, and that's the nurture in me.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.839
I wanted dependency, but almost like like your guys' mom.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.880
Yeah, that's what I wanted.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:50.799
Yeah.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.160
Oh, you were a mom.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.400
I didn't want you to rely on me for the work.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.039
I just wanted to be as careful.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:58.480
All right.
00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.480
So the next one is also about delegation.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.680
When leaders refuse to delegate, they often communicate.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.119
I this is about trust.
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.680
I trust myself more than I trust you.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.279
I know I have fallen into that trap several times.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.960
Yeah, I think I've probably fallen into all of them at least mentioned.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.279
So I would start with, and this is typically how I operate.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.759
It's I trust until I don't trust.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:30.480
Like I'm not, I don't go into a situation, into a work environment where I'm like, I don't trust anybody.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.880
I guess, you know, it's no, I'm gonna be pretty open.
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.960
I trust until I no longer trust.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.279
So I will kind of do it.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:42.799
Yeah, I will allow them to figure that out, but it's the undermining.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:21:04.640
That's where I've had a problem, and that's where I start to not delegate and not trust is if I allow the how to happen and I provide the intent and an expectation, but then along the way I'm undermined, then that's where I kind of have to start over again and I lose that trust.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.359
Yeah, everybody's different, not everybody's like that.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:20.480
And just because maybe somebody undermined doesn't mean the next person will and there was some reflection in there too that maybe I should have provided clear intent out of them.
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:23.119
Sometimes I think we're clear when we're not.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:29.759
Yeah, what opportunity am I stealing from someone by refusing to let them grow?
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.119
That's good.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.759
Yeah, and and the thing is, is they may not even realize it.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:45.599
Usually the doers, our employees, they don't realize it might be an opportunity, but it's up to us to explain that.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:46.480
Exactly.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:22:02.880
We know that humans want to do meaningful work, yeah, want to feel valued, they want to feel like they're you know meeting the mission and fulfilling a Purpose, they all want that.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.960
And we have to give them as many opportunities as possible.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:25.519
Rutgers was doing a study on this as well, and um they said that's when when we overly saturate someone with tasks by because they're good at it, or we don't do the delegation piece, we drive our workers, and workers go from driving success to undermining it.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:40.000
So they you know you get kind of frustrated and you know and upset and don't want to work for the company anymore and don't want to do your best because you probably were under um undervalued, or yeah, you were the person that got all of the work all the time.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:45.039
Yeah, it's up to us to really kind of you know spark that motivation sometimes.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:23:00.880
We don't know what people have been through in their past work environment, but we need to know how to pull that out of them, and they and it's also gonna be uncomfortable for them and discomfort is fine.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.559
That's where all the growing work happens.
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:18.160
Yeah, but they don't know that sometimes they don't know that, they just they shy away from it because it feels uncomfortable and it could be they could be challenged or they don't know how.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:22.319
No, we're gonna help you and we can you and we have faith in you.
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:23.920
Oh, this is one of my favorites.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:26.319
So we I I talked about this today.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.480
God, I've been saying this a lot lately.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.599
John Maxwell is is always talking about this too.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.519
Growth is not accidental.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:46.400
So whenever we want to improve something as we develop into the leaders we want to be, where there's always got to be some sort of goal.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.880
What are we working toward?
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:54.400
And that goes for really any workplace workforce.
00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.880
That how do we ensure that that we have a growth plan?
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:05.440
Like how how are we developing that plan from year to year?
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:13.599
I know you're doing the same job every year, yeah, for about four years, we're doing the same job three to four years.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:31.279
But are we deliberately looking at ourselves and leaders looking at their team saying, This is what we'd like you to work on in the next year, and in the next year, and in the next year, you gotta know where you are and know where you want to be and fill in the gap.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:38.079
Yeah, because um, like we said earlier, every level every level of leadership asks a new version of you.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.839
Pretty yeah, yeah, this was a good question.
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:49.279
If you were still in your current role, one of the biggest mistakes people make is believing growth only happens with promotion.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.519
Like I just got promoted and I'm I'm a leader now.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.319
Yeah.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.960
Some people spend 10 years in the same position and become 10 years better.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.720
Others spend 10 years repeating year one 10 times.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:08.079
So if you're still in your current role three years from now, would you be dramatically better than you are today?
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:23.200
Even without promotion, you can grow in communication, emotional intelligence, coaching, delegation, strategic thinking, public speaking, relationships, mentoring, influence, and innovation.
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:24.720
That's good.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:32.240
Yeah, I mean, it's even looking at those and seeing, okay, where where can I grow in the next year?
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.839
I know for me, it's I gotta be better at asking questions.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.440
It's the coaching part.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.480
Really?
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:43.039
In in the yeah, in the workplace, not providing answers.
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.640
Yeah, it's yeah, very it's very hard.
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:56.240
That's for everybody that asking questions is very difficult because if you have the answers, you just you want to give the answer because you you have the answer.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:58.160
You want to be the smartest person in the room.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:58.960
And what do we say?
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.200
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:12.880
Yeah, so it's about asking the questions and having other people solve the problem, having other people answer the questions, it's being curious.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.559
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.319
I would say mine is similar, but it's fixing everything.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.440
I'm a fixer.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:20.640
It's an easy fix.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:21.839
Give it to me, I'll do it.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.359
Like, you know what I mean?
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:28.480
It's along the same lines of letting them come up with the answer and asking more questions.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.559
But I yeah, I will I will have a way to fix something in two seconds.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:39.039
If you depending on what it is, I have well, I have a solution for that, but I I can't keep giving solutions.
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:51.200
Yeah, because then that's when I fall into the word trap of doing everyone else's job, getting all of the workload dropped on me, and not saying no enough, or not just redirecting.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:56.960
Yeah, it's not even no, it's just redirecting, let them know who is actually responsible for it so that I don't end up doing it.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.240
I'm solution-based.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.599
It's gonna keep happening.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:07.680
If if you continue to answer the questions and then be the fixer, they're gonna get used to that, and you're gonna continue to do it.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.319
Yeah, so that's something I've been working on.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.160
Yeah, it's tough.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:24.880
Okay, now what those were the seven I had stagnation trap, comfort trap, hard work trap, lone wolf trap, yes trap, control trap, and the approval trap.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.599
Yeah, but I have pretty much the same ones.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.839
Why do we struggle to say no?
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:31.359
People pleasing?
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.680
I'm not a people pleaser.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:40.240
I enjoy I think for me, I feel value when I when people trust me to do stuff.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.519
Here we go.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.240
That was a good reflection that I'm like, I want to help them, I want to, you know, do it.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.279
So I don't say I struggle to say no.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:57.839
Yeah, you will you feel it's a compliment, I guess, if people ask you to do something.
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.680
Have you ever said yes to something you immediately regretted?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:02.880
Yes.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:08.880
Uh yes, I'm the one that came up with the idea and then I regret it.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.480
Yes.
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:17.839
Okay, what's a habit that made you successful early in your career that you later had to unlearn?
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:25.039
I think it it's it's the hard work piece, it's taking work home, it's it's obsessing over work.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:36.400
And that probably started back in in my silver flag days where it was I was relentless, burning both ends of the candle.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:47.599
When I wasn't at work, it was taking the books home and studying and learning everything I possibly can, um, and then doing things out in the community.
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:52.319
I mean, it was I don't know what I was trying to prove.
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:57.920
I definitely, for a lot of my career, got a chip on my shoulder, and I was very competitive.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.799
Um, I wanted to be the best.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:05.039
Um, so I think for that, and then that that carried through the right pad.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:09.599
I mean, you guys saw how I worked, and it was non-stop.
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:22.240
So I would say it's it's it was unlearning, and I don't know what the phrase is, not the working hard, but I think I think the fact that working long hours isn't cool anymore.
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.160
Yeah, definitely.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:29.039
I can see that that work in that crazy work will be there.
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:37.200
The work it's not going anywhere, yeah, the work will be there, and so you've you learn to prioritize, you learn to say no.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:43.920
Some emails, if it's just information, I don't need to look, I'll put it away and read it later.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:54.799
Um yeah, so I I think it's I think it's just that it's learning that Erica Kelly says it all the time the machine moves on.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.799
Yeah, the machine is designed to move on.
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:06.960
You do what you can while you're there, which is moving the needle and leaving a place better than you found it, but you don't I think that's real success.
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.960
Yes, it truly is.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:22.880
You don't have to do it all, you don't have to do all these huge things, it's finding a healthy balance, and I think that also has to do with knowing who you are and your identity and your own purpose.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:32.720
Yeah, it's crazy because all those things that you said, if you're in a certain part of your career, life or whatever, you wouldn't think that's a bad thing.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.319
That you wanted to learn every single thing that you could, that you were out in the community.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.960
Those sound great, but you had to move on from that as you progressed throughout your career.
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:47.680
And yes, we saw you work like that, but we were the doers at the time, so to us, we that's what you were supposed to be doing.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:31:12.880
We didn't see anything wrong with it because we were those doers, but it wasn't no, it's not healthy, no, but I mean I I know that now back then I didn't, and I think another thing is, and I love the five gears, and I think we should talk about the five gears another episode, but and I don't even remember what all five are, but it's it's understanding what gear you need to be in to perform well, whatever position you're in.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:21.920
And in mine, it's it's making sure I'm in certain gears and certain times, it's understanding that I cannot be in a social gear all the time.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.519
And there are times when, believe it or not, I actually want to socialize.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:28.640
Oh, and I'm like, oh no, I can't.
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.359
I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta go, you know.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:39.839
And it's pulling out of that gear and then going into a productivity gear where I actually need to focus on administrative things.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.640
And oh, by the way, I need to get into another gear.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:48.480
And so I I think that's so important, and we could do a whole podcast episode on that because it's a fun one.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:49.440
Yeah.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:50.640
What about you?
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:52.720
So, what what was something you had to unlearn?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.720
I think it's the saying yes to everything.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:55.599
Yeah.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.640
Well, what about perfectionism?
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.480
I definitely had to unlearn that.
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:14.799
100% had to, and a prop how to properly take feedback because in my career field for corporate, a lot of times I'm building their corporate training plan and program from scratch.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.720
And I have to take it to the director.
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:25.759
And I'm not I'm so grateful for my old director, um, Athena, because she would literally chop my head off.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:27.599
She'd be like, Nope, take it back.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:28.400
Nope, take it.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.759
I mean, it at first I'm like, gosh, why is she being so rude?
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:32.559
But I needed it.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.480
She was like, no, this is not what I wanted.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.599
Um, you need to fix that.
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.359
There's a typo there, this, that, and the third.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.799
I'll take it back to the drawing board.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:50.640
But it was just very helpful because when you're an instructor and you teach a lot and you're doing corporate training, you have to be able to digest the feedback that you get at the end of your class.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.440
And that was really difficult for me because I'm a perfectionist.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.240
It is, it's very difficult, that sort of feedback.
00:32:56.319 --> 00:33:02.160
And it's like rework, and you got to go back and you feel you really got to control your emotions.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.720
Yeah.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:04.559
It's tough in the moment.
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:10.160
Um, but it, but then it, you know, you realize holy cow, like this actually helped me.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.119
Tough loss.
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:13.039
For sure.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:19.039
What's something you've learned to protect that you didn't protect five years ago?
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:20.640
That's a good question.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.039
Yeah, I'm trying to think of my answer.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:24.079
Yeah.
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:27.680
And honestly, I would say for me, probably identity.
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:29.839
You've always been good with that.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.039
For me, I I wasn't.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.160
So I would say my identity and pieces in there too, but probably my identity more than that.
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.359
Especially happen time to myself and learning me.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:47.279
I think maybe cutting it off, like cutting, not bringing it home.
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:48.000
Yeah.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:48.799
Yeah.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.440
I've gotten better actually this year.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:54.400
For the last four years, I feel like I was just constantly going.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:57.839
And my mom would be like, But you why are you why do you have your laptop at the dinner table?
00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:59.119
I'm like, it's gonna take me a second.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.640
I just have to send this email.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:02.960
And she's like, You shouldn't do that.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:09.199
I always have my laptop with me still, but it's because the nature of my job, but also I don't have to log on.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.960
I don't every day I don't have to.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.360
Yeah, somebody calls me and asked for something, okay.
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.280
And you guys are always on.
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.000
Yeah.
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:17.760
Here are a couple questions.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.760
Light, funny questions, because we'll wrap up here soon.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.320
Kind of ties to the episode.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.320
Some things that maybe we liked back then that we don't like now.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.239
What's a food you loved as a kid but can't stand now?
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.400
Prunes.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:39.760
Prunes?
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:41.360
What the hell?
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:46.719
Your mommy, your mom got prunes.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:54.800
Yes, I used to walk around with a bag of prunes, eating them, but now I can't stand them.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:55.920
Oh my god.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:00.000
That was the only thing I could think of for real, because I'm I would pretty much eat the same things.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.719
That's good.
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.280
That's good.
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.280
I would say for me, it's like ham.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:04.639
Like, I don't know why.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.360
I can't, I don't don't give me a ham sandwich.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.559
Like when I was younger, my parents made me a ham sandwich.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:11.920
I need it, I'd be fine.
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.400
Thanksgiving, and ham now.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.320
It's like, I don't know, something about it.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:18.159
Like, I don't don't give me ham.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.519
There's probably other ones too, but that one just keep in mind.
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:22.960
Ah, this is good.
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.320
And I already have my answer.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.960
What's a phrase people use that instantly annoys you?
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.480
We can go on and on not to piggyback.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.480
I hate a piggybacker.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.280
Oh my god.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.880
Because you're piggybacking.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.880
I can't stand it.
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:41.119
I heard that today somewhere.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.239
Somebody said I was like, I might have said it.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.719
I don't know.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.559
Sometimes I do say it.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.079
What's yours?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.000
You're not wrong.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.159
Well, then I'm right.
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.000
You're not wrong.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.280
Okay, all right.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.960
Well, then just say I'm right.
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.159
I don't know, but don't say I'm not wrong.
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:01.760
You're not wrong.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.599
Why do people say that?
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.519
Yeah, that's like a slap in the face.
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.599
Like they're just their ego's too big and won't allow them to say you were right.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:13.599
I was like, you're not wrong.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.920
Yeah, well, then that means I'm right.
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.000
Oh well boy, so funny.
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.360
Um oh, here's a random question.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:37.920
Since Joey Chestnut won another Nathan's famous hot dog eating contest over the 4th of July, what food could you probably eat way too much of if there were a competition?
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:39.519
Watermelon.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.320
Really?
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.119
Watermelon?
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.320
Yeah, I love watermelon.
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:42.719
Good.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.320
I don't really get to know.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.400
I don't know what mine would be.
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:47.920
Chicken wings.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.119
Wouldn't I guess?
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.039
Not from Buffalo or anything, are you?
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.800
It'd probably be wings.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.000
Buffalo.
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.000
And I can eat a lot of pizza too.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:57.119
Okay, that's it.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.239
I have some quotes for I have something for closing though.
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:01.360
Close it out.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:02.320
Give a quote.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:03.039
All right.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.000
All right.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:05.360
In closing, that's it.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.880
No, we just need to read where the greatest leaders eventually realize something.
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:14.000
Your job isn't to be the smartest person in the room, your job is to build a room full of smart people.
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:15.679
Success got you here.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.920
Growth requires something different.
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:20.960
Don't become trapped by the habits that made you successful.
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:25.920
Evolve them because every new level of leadership asks a new version of you.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:27.039
Love it.
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:28.159
Thank you, Sarah.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.039
Thank you, everybody.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.119
We'll see you next time on Trail Talks.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.400
If today's conversation resonated with you, you don't have to walk your journey alone.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:45.360
I offer emotional intelligence assessments with personalized coaching, one-on-one mindset coaching, and leadership development for teams and organizations.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.199
You can explore all of that at Kellymichelle Coaching.com.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:50.639
Link in the show notes.
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:56.559
And I'll leave you with this awareness is powerful, but support is transformational.
