WEBVTT
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Hello again and welcome to Tony and Steve's world of sport.
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Make sure you're with us and know you're gonna be all episode, as always, all those sporting news stats, and a big Steve Rice shout out this week.
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The whole sporting world is eager for that one.
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But huge interview with the wonderful Martin Cassidy, CEO of Ref Support.
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No, you're gonna be with us all show, but dad, as always, we like to kick off our shows before we uh give everybody all the action news and information with a bit of feedback.
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A regular download, a regular contributor.
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Matthew Turvy's got involved again.
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He actually asks, Hi guys, I don't know if you've uh recorded yet, don't know if we've got time to get it in.
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Turvy, you did, good man.
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He speaks about Jimmy Anderson.
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We love Jimmy Anderson.
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It's got to be political, Turvy says.
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Speaking about the quote unquote retirement from Lancashire last week of Jimmy Anderson, he says, Turvy, this is uh gets involved.
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Jimmy's never been one not to speak his mind.
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And after the amount of service, 25 years plus he's given to Lancashire, he's got to have earned the right to give an opinion.
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I wonder if he's upset the suits.
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The club, Lancashire County Cricket Club, is in a mess.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he've given a few home truths to the hierarchy.
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So Turvey weighs in on his opinions on the quote unquote retirement of Jimmy Anderson from Lancashire Cricket Club.
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Dad, it does have a bit of a stench to it.
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What's your thoughts on this one?
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I wouldn't call it a stench.
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I would say that Anderson has been an absolute brilliant ambassador for the game of cricket and an amazing performer at test level, and his contribution to Lancashire beyond recall.
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Even this season at his age, he took 50 wickets, and despite the team finished second bottom, and he was their player of the year.
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Indeed.
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However, nothing goes on forever.
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And sometimes a club or a team has to take a controversial look at things and start again.
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And maybe just maybe Lancashire are looking inwards and saying, you know what, he's great, he's been great, but we can't hang on to his coattails forever.
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I can't answer this whether he's upset people.
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I don't think he would have done.
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I think this is a decision on the future of the club which doesn't involve him playing.
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I can't believe that they won't use him in a capacity at all.
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I find that rather strange and totally untenable.
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They need help.
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But if Anderson wants to continue playing, which he does seem to indicate he does, then perhaps it's time, you know, if Lancashire don't want him for him to go to another club, which would be for him a rather big shock.
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But it happens in sport, and I'm afraid Allison is getting old, he can't go on forever.
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Lancashire are in trouble, they have to change things, and sometimes I've seen it in other sports.
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You drop your best player, you sell your bless player, and it's the end of the world.
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No, it isn't.
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You move on.
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So thank you, Jimmy Anderson.
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I hope you find another club because you clearly want to play.
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Somebody should be picking this man up because he's still got a couple of seasons in him, although there is injury worries.
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But Lancashire need to take a different course, and I can understand that.
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I hear what you're saying, I don't dispute it.
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And again, we need to look into this.
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Hussein has come out this week saying that there was quite potentially lots of political ramifications here, and the suits, as uh Matthew Turvey put them in question, uh Richard Kenyon and Paul Fairbrades, as you say, Dad, look, 44 years old, going to be 45 next season, but he keeps himself in such good nick.
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And as you observed, an amazing season, 50 wickets at 17.68 apiece.
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That's world class.
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He can still do it, and I don't know.
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He himself, Anderson has said, if it was up to me, it wouldn't have ended like this.
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I think he's gonna get another gig.
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I I think he's you say, Yeah, look, nothing lasts forever, father time remains unbeaten, and all of that.
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But I think Lancashire here are kind of cutting off their nose despite their face, and I think they still could have maybe found a better means to ease this legend into retirement as opposed to the waiting handle.
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They have, they absolutely have.
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But uh, we're gonna keep you caught up with all your sporting news, which means the world of sport is eager.
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They're tense.
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I can always feel the tension from the sporting world because they cannot wait to find out who this week's Steve Rice Shout out is.
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So, without any further ado, this is your news.
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Indeed, here is your news, which means here it is this week's Steve Rice shout out.
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Steve, what do you got for us?
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Well, this is an interesting one this week, because generally speaking, generally speaking, it goes to somebody that's won something.
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Well, this week's shout out, it goes to Harry Brooks.
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A double hundred, and yet he still loses.
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His 202 beat Ben Stokes 182, it only 114 balls, beating Schuben Gill's 117.
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He is an amazing player, and England, how they lost that game, I do not know.
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Just to go further with Harry Fabrooks, he holds a unique treble in tests.
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He stands above Joe Root, Jeff Boycott, and Graham Gooch.
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Magnificent players in their time with a test average of 53.08.
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He also had holds a T20 average of 36.21 at a strike rate of 164.92.
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It's the second highest run chase ODI internationals.
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They he loses the match despite his magnificent performance.
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It's got to be a shout-out for Harry this week.
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Well done.
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A shame about losing, but you know, my shout out this week is Harry Brooks.
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I really like it.
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Uh guys, I want your views on Harry Brooks.
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We were talking about him potentially being uh an England captain in the making.
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He is a captain of that one-day international side, but joining absolutely unique elite category here.
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He joins only one other man, uh, the West Indian legend, Chris Gale, to have got a hundred in T20, a double hundred now in ODIs, and a triple century at test level.
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Very, very elite category.
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Dad, it's a fair shout out.
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But we say, don't we, winners win, losers find a way to moan about what could have been.
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And yeah, they lose for Sri Lanka in that run chase, epic as it was, and then they find a way to lose against Pakistan, which included the record for the last wicked partnership 889 there between the Pakistanians, but two defeats where they've basically found a way to lose as opposed to being, you know, shellacked.
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That's not a good habit, though, is it?
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This is a bad habit.
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This is sending bad signs because also it sends signs out to the world that actually England are beatable no matter what.
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Yeah, these two records that have just fallen, you know, to lose matches where you have a total stranglehold is not acceptable.
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And they've got to look inwards again and decide there's a lot of work to do.
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It's what should we say?
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There's some managers and coaches there who've got to look at what our performance was all about, and they've got to look inwards.
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Maybe Jimmy Anderson comes back.
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Love that shout.
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I don't think it's gonna happen.
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Hey, but Alison, I'm I'm sure Anderson still has a great short-term future in the game.
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What a legend.
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Less than a year, though, till the one day international world cup.
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That's gonna be in South Africa and Zimbabwe and Namibia, three nations, starting October the 2nd, spreading to November the 21st, next year, 2027.
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So not long for England to get that act together.
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But Dad, sport reminds us always, doesn't it, that things can happen incredibly quickly.
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We were very much tracing Spurs' woes of late, but two good results for them.
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Sees them climb up the league, easing the pressure on De Zerby.
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Uh, gotta give the Spurs men a massive amount of credit, right?
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Well, this is an interesting season in terms of the bottom of the table.
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It's open at the moment.
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There's nobody sitting there looking completely doomed.
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It changes week to week, but you're quite right.
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Spurs have climbed out of the relegation zone.
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I'm very impressed with De Zerby because last week, when he was under pressure, he very calmly said he wasn't concerned.
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And I think he meant it.
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And his team have started to play football, started to score goals.
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Well done to him.
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I think that Spurs are now beginning to look like they're not gonna go and win the league.
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They might perhaps win a trophy, who knows?
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But they're they're gonna be in the bottom half of the league, I believe.
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I don't think they're that special just because they've won a couple of games.
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So well done to the Spurs for doing that.
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However, we have a carrick problem.
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And Sony and I last week decided that we weren't gonna talk about the sack race very much, and we were impressed with people saying how you know that we we're too quick to talk about the sack.
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However, this weekend's problem with Manchester United is a problem.
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Now, we don't know.
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Whilst we're recording this, I'm sure there are meetings going on at Man United, and with feeling is that Carrick is going to get the sack, and it's a shame because the fans like him and they they want to keep him to stay, but it's very likely he will go, especially he's got a visit Chelsea come this weekend.
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So, really, I I'm not sure it's a great thing.
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I think you know the there's a problem at Manchester United that's more deep-rooted than the manager.
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What do you think, Tony?
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Yeah, hugely.
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Look, I mean, they've had since Ferguson so many great managers, haven't they?
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Uh heralded managers, managers who come in with great CVs.
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They've tried then um, you know, to go with up-and-coming managers.
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It's not quite worked out.
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They've tried legends like Solskjaer, they have seemingly tried every equation, and yet post-Ferguson, a few trophies here or there withstanding, it has been just an absolute litany of disaster for this great, great club.
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And I do feel a bit sorry for Carrick.
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I think you're dead right.
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I think he is unfortunately um very much gonna be uh biting the bullet for this one.
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But I don't know.
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I think there are severe problems at the club, and that goes right on top.
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But that here's the thing you know, we talk about uh financial fair play and obviously all the Man City controversies, man you last season, man Un United last season are operating at a 1.5 billion loss.
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1.5 billion loss into the negative.
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I mean, it's not sustainable, they have this history, but massive changes are required.
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Otherwise, I don't know anybody that could turn the ship around.
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Well, then talking about turning the ship around, obviously uh the conversation is now moving on as to who would be a good appointment to replace Carrick, and there are three or four possibilities.
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Um, first of all, Conte.
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I think that would totally end in tears, and he's not the right man, although he is being muted.
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I think Eddie Howe would be a very good appointment.
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I think he he would be up to the job, and also there is rumors of uh the interest from Julian Nagelsmann, the former German manager.
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Possibility, but I think the best person would be you know Henry, who's doing a magnificent job at Aston Villa.
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But I hear it's very unlikely for him to take it whilst he's doing so well at that club.
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He's got total control at Aston Villa.
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Absolutely.
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Would he get that?
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Would he get that control at Manchester United?
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No, he wouldn't.
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Look, I think uh first and foremost on that, I want to say a massive uh amount of uh respect to uh to Emory.
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What he's achieved is remarkable.
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Again, they were under pressure at the start of the season.
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We talked financial fair play, which I find very Orwellian, frankly.
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Basically, because of that, to balance the books, he had to sell almost a whole squad.
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He did that.
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Uh, he suffered a few uh bad results to start the campaign, but they absolutely shellacked Man City, uh, inflitting the um Man City men's first defeat of the campaign.
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Credit to a new signing that Emory brought in, uh Jackson, seven goals in eleven since signing from Chelsea.
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But Emory, again, what he does, you know, for Villa winning the uh European trophy last season, getting them into the Champions League this year, he's a consistent winner, a very astute man, and I think he could well be the man to turn the likes of Man United around.
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But no, I don't think he'd won it.
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And I want to ask you who do you think should be the next Man Yu Head Honcho?
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Find us across social media, or of course you can send us those long emails.
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A la MatthewTurvey to Tony and Steve's worldesport at gmail.com.
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Dan, for you though, Emery the man.
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I I would have said yes.
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The problem with Manchester United is they've had more managers than we've had prime ministers in the last 10 years.
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I believe we've had enough of those.
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I don't think Emory will take it.
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I think the outsider uh in the in the frame, I think Eddie Howe will end up doing it.
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A British manager with some degree of pedigree, with his eyes on the England futures job and a bit of respect to him.
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He turned Newcastle around, although it didn't go as far as he would like it.
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I I'm rooting for seeing Eddie Howe in the chair.
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Okay, more new views.
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I'm sure you've got them.
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So uh find us across social media.
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Of course, you can email us Tony and Steve's world of sport at gmail.com and United fans.
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I know you've got opinions right now.
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But there, Dan, you mentioned our Prime Minister talking at the very top of the political world in football.
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Infantino looks like he's gaining support, even though he is a man who is a living, breathing, controversial, controversial figure.
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Yeah, I'm I'm I'm disappointed.
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We did discuss this in a few episodes ago.
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It does look like he's going to get a third term, which will make it 12 years.
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It's very sad for football, but you know, there we go.
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I've been looking into this uh presidency role, and it it's been an interesting look back because it only got changed to three terms after the said blatter fiasco in 2016.
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And uh the longest serving president was a great Jules Rime, 35 years, and he obviously started the World Cup, hence the trophy's name.
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I think my opinion, and I'd like to hear from other people on this, is that actually two terms is enough, three's too many.
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There are now going to be 48 nations competing in World Cups.
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12 years to oversee that is too long.
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Two terms is enough.
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We need to share it around a bit more.
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I think it's time.
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I loved your shout from our very first episode, Dad.
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A real uh left of centre shout with uh Sir David Beckham as the man.
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Maybe we do need somebody never gonna happen and never gonna happen, I agree.
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But maybe we do need an outsider, somebody um new to breathe integrity into the game.
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But tell you what, guys, if you're into integrity and sports, and I know you are, you want to be with us all episode a fantastic interview with Martin Cassidy from Ref Support.
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Martin referred to Infantino as a dead man walking with recent support, though.
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It looks like he's looking strong.
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In fact, at the moment, he is unopposed.
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We have until November the 18th for somebody to stand against him.
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Will that happen?
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And again, I want your views.
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All things politics in sport, politics in football.
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Who should be the man?
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Should it be El David, Sir David?
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I'd love that.
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Get involved, you know how to.
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But there, that is maybe the biggest role in football, but maybe the biggest reward for goals in football is the ballon d'or.
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Just a quick one on this one, Dad.
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Well, you've used the good word integrity.
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And if there's any integrity in Harry Kane, we'll win this.
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If he doesn't, there's something wrong.
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He's done it all right, he's done it year in, year out, performed brilliantly for England, brilliantly for a difficult Spurs team, and magnificently for a foreign team in Bayern, Munich.
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If he doesn't get it, there ain't no integrity.
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Good luck, Harry Kane.
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Hope you get it.
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Hey we'll certainly be banging out some uh tweets that we'll have you watch us across social media.
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We are all on about cheering on Harry Kane, hoping indeed there remains integrity and justice in the sporting world.
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Harry Kane, of course, a great goal scorer, but I want to give a bit of news and a bit of respect to a great try scorer, a massive one this one.
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I love this.
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Christian Wade uh scored on Friday against Sale for the Newcastle team.
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That's his sixth of this campaign, but more significantly, that represents not room 101, but tri 101 for Christian Wade.
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:13.599
That levels him up with the great Chris Ashton, top all time, both of whom have 101, still loads of this season left.
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:18.000
You can only imagine Wade gonna overtake the great Ashton.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.160
So, yeah, just credit to Christian Wade.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:20.960
What an effort.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.119
15 years since his debut try for Wasps, way back when.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:26.400
Still going strong.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.079
Love that for Christian Wade, Dad.
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:29.519
Quickly, your thoughts on that flyer.
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:39.519
Marvellous performance, as you say, got lost a lot of season to go, so he's gonna break it and possibly put it into a position where it'll take many, many years for somebody to overtake that.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.279
Some record stand for a long time.
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:46.880
Chris Ashton was great in his day, and to overtake him, big achievement, and uh well done.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.799
And I'm sure we'll see a little bit more of him as the season progresses.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.160
Only one England Cup.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.119
I find that strange.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:53.920
But there we go.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.720
And I'll tell you what's really impressive about Christian Wade.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.759
Again, he will surpass the great Ashton.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.680
It's gonna happen, it's just a matter of time.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:08.240
But he actually was out of the English world in uh rugby from 2018 till 2024.
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:14.160
He spent a few seasons with the Buffalo Bills trying to make it in the NFL, it never quite happened for him.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:19.599
And then he spent a couple of seasons out in France for Wrestling 92.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:26.400
So to be out of the equation for basically six seasons and still be there, number one now.
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:28.319
I mean, that's quite impressive, isn't it?
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.960
And to to have no regrets in life, I think that's key.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.079
And I don't think he'll have many.
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.640
It does explain his one cap for England as well.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:41.680
Being out, being out of the game, uh, you know, uh out of the actual game of rugby, being in America, and then going abroad.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.119
You're not, you know, you're not gonna get capped under those circumstances.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:45.920
But well done anyway.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.240
Hey, talking rugby, less good news for the Red Roses again.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.200
Canada get an important victory for them.
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:54.640
31-22.
00:18:54.799 --> 00:19:02.240
We've been tracing the Red Roses and their great win streak, which has been shattered now, and that's a second straight defeat.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.759
Uh, are there causes for concern now in the Red Roses camp?
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:06.319
Do you think?
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:14.000
Yes, there are causes of concern, but there's still a very, very good side, very hard to beat, and it's part of life.
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.559
You know, you're gonna lose some time, and I know maybe the team needs a bit of a shake-up.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:23.119
Um I'm very disappointed in John Mitchell.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:25.519
He now is bitching around.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:27.599
I don't like this at all.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.079
Oh, there's no uh game time for English girls in the PW.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.759
Come off it, John.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:39.200
You weren't saying that when you had a 39-week running run, um 39 match winning run.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.559
That's a bit rich.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.799
I'm not happy with this man now.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:48.559
He may have a point, but I think it's time to put up, shut up, or resign.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.839
I like basically what you said there about the fact it is just evolution.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.119
You cannot keep winning.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:54.960
Teams catch up, they evolve.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.880
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:05.279
Like you observe, he wasn't uh griping in any way, shape, or form when they were on that ridiculous 39-game winning span.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.119
It is interesting though, there is no Canadian Pro League.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:19.119
So, of course, these immensely talented Canadian women, for the betterment of their career, their self, their families, come to the English uh women's Premier uh League.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:26.799
And 11 Canadians actually featured in the last July final between Saracens and the Trailfinders.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.200
So 11 out of 30, that is a big chunk.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:37.200
But here's the thing the PWR mandates for each match day squad has to have 13 England qualified players available.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:38.880
So there's still ample opportunities.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:39.680
I think Mr.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:43.039
Mitchell needs to get off his high horse, refocus on the team.
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:43.839
That's my company.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:52.960
And I want a British manager in uh a lady, a woman, but like we had on the football team, a very successful football team.
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.599
Let's not have these blokes dominating the women.
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.160
Come on, there must be a candidate out there who can take him, take him on and move it forward.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.200
It's time to move forward.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.119
Sorry, John, but it's time's up.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.480
You've made a mess of this.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:09.039
The time is not yet up for England in the rugby league side of things.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:16.880
They absolutely destroy France by 82 points to nil, meaning that their slim World Cup hopes are still there.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.119
They have a 68-point deficit.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.119
They have to hope that Tonga beat Samoa.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.759
So, quite frankly, it's still highly unlikely.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.680
But yeah, this uh farcical Rugby League World Cup carries on a pace.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:35.039
I want to say really quickly, we were critical, weren't we, about the um Premier Sports coverage.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:44.559
And we don't yet have the Premier Sports details from the viewing figures, but in Australian perspective, obviously rugby league is huge in Australia.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:50.000
Their channel 7 pulled in massive viewership for several games, almost 2 million.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:55.519
And like that viewership of 2 million for Australian uh per capita, immense figures.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.839
So it's still very popular, but damn my goodness me, there have been some horrible.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.039
Horrible score lines to watch from a competitive point of view.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.119
Some massive points differences.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.519
It's not a healthy place, I don't think.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:12.240
Well, this is the problem with a lot of sports when they have a World Cup.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:17.920
You've got the minnows of the so-called minnows who are drawn against the bigger guys and they can't hack it.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:19.680
And it doesn't do the game any good.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:21.359
It happens in football.
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.240
It happens in even rugby union had it when you know.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:35.920
I mean, these teams do improve over the years, but there isn't enough, what should we say, players and sort of countries playing rugby league to change that.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:42.000
And I think there's a problem, and I don't know the answer, but it ain't doing them any good to watch people win 84-0.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:50.640
It's not good viewing, even if you're playing in that victory, you can't take any, what should we say, uh grace from beating somebody like that.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:59.119
It's not a game, uh, it's a massacre, and uh you you you you just gotta go in and think, well, that was a waste of my time and the viewers' time.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:07.359
So I'm not happy about it, but it does happen in all sports, and it's time to maybe for rugby league to think about whether uh they can do something.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:22.960
But rugby union did have its own problems as well with uh you know the minnow teams getting well beat, and now to be fair, you know, you do get upsets in rugby union, you know, you get the Fiji's coming through, you get the Japanese beating the Irish, you know.
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:28.960
So it does happen, but um, I can't say rugby league is looking that likely.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.640
No, I think both sports at the moment seriously need to do a lot of soul searching.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:40.240
Uh, as I say, I'm not hoping this, I'm just gonna reaffirm that is my fear that the one day, just to pull resources, there will just be rugby.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.279
And I'd love your views on that.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.759
No, sorry, you said that last week, it's doing it again this week.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.759
I totally disagree with you.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.039
It won't happen.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.559
I hope it doesn't, truly.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.839
Truly, I hope it doesn't.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.440
But like I say, again, just to pull resources, and uh just we'll see, just the way trends are going in the rules of rugby union is my concern.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:08.079
But your views, I want your views on this, do uh tweet, uh find us across social media, or of course you can email to us to Tony and Steve's worldfort at gmail.com.
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.839
Rugby league in maybe a bad way, maybe you want to say otherwise as well.
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.599
I'd love your rugby league opinions.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:25.680
But another uh aspect of uh rugby league, of course, a breakaway from rugby union way back when it's a struggling element of breakaway golf, the LIV scene is fading.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.960
Dad, a few uh notes on the LIV right now.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.920
Well, the inevitable's happened uh or is happening.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:39.359
The players who've made millions and millions of pounds of the breakaway LIV golf tournament, it's falling apart.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:48.079
The sponsors are not paying the bills, they're they're owed a lot of money, and the key players are starting to start to pull out and it's gonna fall apart.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.519
It always was.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.599
Um, it never looked like it was gonna uh be a total success.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:00.720
It has damaged the attitude of other players playing with each other, it has damaged the name of golf.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:13.680
Um, but I think thankfully, um, once this goes, you go back to normality, and there's enough money out there, for goodness sake, to uh really compete, even if you're not gonna win tournaments.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:18.000
There's a lot of money in the top ten, and that's what it was all about.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.319
It was about money, and that this is the problem in sports.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:28.960
Money makes the sport go round, and unfortunately, that's the way the world is turning.
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:30.880
Sad, but that's the way it is.
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:32.160
It is indeed sad.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.799
But uh, one sport that does it well and is really expanding its horizons is the NFL.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:46.000
Big game in Paris saw the Pittsburgh Steelers overcome the New Orleans Saints by 16 points to 10.
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:53.920
That was the seventh different country that's now been covered by the NFL in a regular season context.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.000
So they're always expanding their horizons.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:01.759
Another game in Mexico coming up, and they're gonna go crazy in uh Munich, I think, next week.
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:24.720
It's huge across Europe now, and they were treated to a feast there in Paris with veteran QB uh for the Steelers, Aaron Rodgers throwing his 540th career touchdown pass, seeing them overpass, overtake the legendary Hall of Famer Peyton Manning coming into third place all time in the touchdown uh pass list.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:33.440
So a great historic performance there from the legendary future Hall of Famer Aaron Rodgers, and great for the NFL to expand into a raucous Paris.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.440
It was a fantastic scene, and what a season it's already been so far.
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:44.559
Seven games in, and before this weekend kicked off, 57 games was decided by just one score.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.039
Meaning that again, it brings parity, it brings closeness, it brings competitive action.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:50.720
You gotta love the NFL.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.359
Well, I'm really glad you're doing this, Tony, with the NFL.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.240
I I as a I'm not a big fan, don't watch much of it.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:01.119
But what I do know about our podcast is that we have a very good American following.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:09.200
About nearly 20% of our listeners are in the States of America, and so I think it's great that you're following their national sport.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.400
I think it's important that uh we keep that up to date.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:20.000
And I know you're an absolute statistician and that they love it, and your knowledge of the game is is very, very good.
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:28.960
And I think for me, although it's not something I'm uh uh knowledgeable about or in a supporter of, I do enjoy listening to the stats that go around.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:37.680
And I think it's an important thing that this podcast will continue to cover, and I know that you'll increase it as we get closer to that wonderful occasion, the Super Bowl.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.039
Oh, I love the Super Bowl.
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.160
Every February is a big moment in my time in my year.
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.680
I've got it already circled.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:48.000
But uh circling back, that is it now for your news.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:11.279
Always a joy, though, to give you the updates and news from the awesome team at Tempest Village Group.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.480
Remember, of course, their interview with their fabulous uh visionary Chris Simpson Daniels.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.400
You can find that episode too.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:27.839
All our awesome episodes available for downloading wherever you get your podcasts from, and some big updates, as always, from the team at Tempest.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:41.039
They've had some great calls, including to Haywood Solutions, to discuss fundraising for TCP, an ex-world champion boxer uh who wants to be involved with Tempest, had conversations with them last week.
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.599
Uh, lots of good interviews for security managers and investment managers to boot.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:55.039
Age UK have visited the community building to discuss renting space, and dance classes are now held every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.000
And the games and youth sessions are on a Friday.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.680
Tempest Village Group, check them out.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:04.319
Episode two, check all our episodes out, available wherever you get your podcast from.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.000
But Dad, I know you wanted to just spend another moment just expressing our gratitude to the team at Tempest.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:11.279
Yes, I would like to.
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.519
I'd like to thank the Tempest Village Group.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:28.640
They they very kindly came with uh Simpson Daniel on the show in the early stages of this podcast and have embraced our podcast with uh uh allowing us to update and give bulletins out, which is a very important part of our show.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:42.559
This group does great things, and I would encourage anybody listening to download the Tempest Group uh website and and look at what they're doing, see if there's anything you can do to assist and help.
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:47.279
They've got lots of different opportunities, and I think they're doing a great job.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:55.599
And I, through this podcast, would appeal for people to look at what they're doing and see if they're interested in helping out in any capacity whatsoever.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.720
And I thank Tempest Village Group for joining our podcast.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:04.079
And since they have sent us some uh very nice, what should we say, graphics?
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.920
We put the graphics onto our website and the downloads shot up.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.559
Amazing.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.839
Thank you very much.
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:10.880
Yeah, awesome stuff.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.039
And I want to say a big thank you to Martin Cassidy from Ref Support.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:20.400
We talk V A R yes, everybody's favorite, but also violence against referees.
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.039
This is an important interview, it's coming at you now.
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:31.920
Here on Tony C's World Sport Podcast, we are very big on all things to do with controversy in sport and referring, of course, is a big one in that regard.
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:47.359
We're also massive in the importance of sport and mental health, both as it impacts us positively and also the stresses and strains it can impart onto our stars, performers, and indeed those upholding the laws of the games.
00:30:47.599 --> 00:31:03.119
So, with that being said, it could not be more appropriate to welcome to the podcast Martin Cassidy, CEO of the tremendous independent charity Ref Support, who's also head of football and community development for goals football.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:04.640
Martin, welcome, how are you?
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.359
Uh hi, mate.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:05.759
I'm fine.
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:13.519
It's really interesting what one bit you mentioned there, and like I always say when I'm on podcasts or TV or radio, I like to come in blind.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.880
I don't like to do prepared notes, and I'm really pleased that that's how we're gonna go.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:24.000
But you mentioned mental health there, and one of the things that never ever seems to get recognized is the mental health of match officials.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.559
Of course.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:46.160
You know, I I see our Twitter accounts at Rev Support UK, we've got 25,000 followers, and you get these people to come on and they'll absolutely state a referee, they'll name the referee, they go so and so and so and so in our game today at Portsmouth, is a disgrace, needs to be and then you look on their on their bio and it's go, oh, mental health advocates, and you're like really read the room, read the room, mate.
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:54.400
I don't quite know how people's sense of self marries sometimes with what they proclaim and what they actually live and breathe.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.160
But it's a long chat, Martin.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:17.119
Before we delve into all of these important topics, one thing I wanted to learn a little bit more about is I know recently, back in back into September, I think the 23rd to the 29th, there in your capacity as a you know a ref support, plus in involved in the development of the game, you were out in Cambril, Spain, for the European mini football tournament.
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:19.279
I think there were four separate events going on.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.440
Tell us a bit more about that event out in Spain.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:26.400
Yeah, yeah, mini football is the term the rest of the world uses for the small side of the game.
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.920
So their being in mini football is like a smaller number of players than 11.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.759
In here in England, it's viewed as like the kiddies game, so it gets a little bit convoluted.
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:43.359
But listen, I'm I'm very proud to be chairman of the referees committee of the European Mini Football Federation, and I'm on the committee of the World Mini Football Federation where we hold World Cups.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:59.440
You know, our World Cup uh year before last was in Baku, 12,000 seats of the stadium filled up, you know, it's it's 142 million viewers around the world watch you, and it's it's huge, it's it's basically six-side football with a couple of different um different rule changes, which are really positive for the game.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:17.440
We use two referees, we have one each side similar to futsal as of so many of the listeners would have known about border league, but border league has evolved from mini football where gotcha they've got you know major, major YouTubers uh putting in teams every Monday, big arenas, and we've been using this format for a long time.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.559
It's starting to grow massively in in the UK.
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:21.680
We work alongside.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.519
I have three hats on really you have the ref support hat with the chief executive.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.559
Yeah, I have the chairman of the referees committee on the European Mini Football, 32 different countries.
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.960
We had 40 referees from 28 different countries at Cabrilles.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:41.599
We had the first time we had two female referees, referee in men's and men's six aside Champions League game.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.039
Um, so it's just massive.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.279
It's really grown in here, and we work with goals.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:34:02.880
My other job is head of football and community development for goals, which are the one of the biggest in the world of the smallest game, so it all fits in really neatly where we give players and referees opportunities to referee across the world live TV games in front of audiences they would not get over here in absolutely in this country.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.400
So it's a big organization.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.640
And Cambrills was great, really, really good.
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.639
Four different competitions men's Champions League, uh Men's Euro Cup.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:17.599
We had men's women's champions league, women's Euro Cup, and we also had another one on it, the Masters, which is like you know, the old Masters we used to do.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:25.440
Like we we we can have pathways now in England where we have a competition under the Masters format, and then they can represent goals and play abroad in these competitions.
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.800
It's like it's a monster, a monster size of what I do.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:38.480
But again, it's all tied in with referee support, referee development, FE training, and giving you know grassroots referees opportunities to ref internationally and get paid for it, which is fantastic.
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.880
But one thing just real quick before we branch back into kind of the focus of refereeing.
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:48.639
I mean, first of all, credit massively to our lionesses, who have obviously European Championship World Cup finalists.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:54.559
But again, I know the trend recently is you know, well, we're we're making progress for England men's football team.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:56.880
You know, we're you know, we're competing, we're making finals.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:58.159
It's still the case, isn't it?
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.880
That 66, since then, nada.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:11.280
Do you think that this maybe should be more uh investigated, focused in on this shorter form improving technique, which could potentially benefit all the way up the ladder, just a thought.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:12.400
You know, no, I agree.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:21.199
And it's it's really interesting, actually, because UEFA articles of association are their small side of football format is beach soccer and footsal.
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.320
Wow, that's like so.
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.920
They they every single federation should deliver and support beach football and footsal.
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.039
Now, six aside football and five aside football, seven side football.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.320
We've only got a lot, we've we've got nearly four thousand teams and goals.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:35.920
It's much bigger than footsal.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.199
It's a massive, massive, much bigger than football than foots.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:44.719
But but the butt, you know, FIFA dictates that you know they concentrate on a beach football and footsal.
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:55.440
The six aside game, I work closely with the FA and County FAs now recognise six aside, five aside, seven aside, uh, but not in some national international body, really.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:56.000
Gotcha.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:04.400
Yeah, similar with walking football, which is another format I work with, and I think um I listen it helps to control first touch, you know, reactions.
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:14.719
Yes, you know, it's a it's a huge part of developing football, but FIFA and the FA and government bodies see football as a different sport.
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:30.239
Now, our journey from uh European mini football and world mini football federations are to develop that into the Olympics, gotcha, the Olympics by nature are a smaller number of individuals, like an Olympian was always a person on his own, javelin discus, all this sort of stuff.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.519
And then you look at 11 of sides going in there, listen, they're having a side game aren't really interested in the Olympics.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.639
Do you know what I mean?
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.360
Whereas if you can elevate the small side of the game in there, that's a different ball game altogether.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:46.480
And when you historically, you know, 11 of size football is professionals, Olympics is all for amateurs.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:54.480
So there's a nuance there that I think the small side of the game from a five-aside, six-aside format, it's perfect to work with the IRC and develop it internationally.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:54.960
I love that.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.079
And watch this space because I truly believe personally we shouldn't moan about things, find solutions.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:06.639
And I think potentially this shortened form is something that could have massive positive impacts right up to the very elite.
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:16.800
But talking elite, you mentioned there that uh the 11-aside game in the international arena, not that mithered about the Olympics, principally because they have this little tournament called the World Cup, which happened recently.
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.280
Talking refereeing, it's something obviously, again, we've got short memories, haven't we, Martin?
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:31.519
But there was a Fiore, wasn't there, about uh USA playing the Donald Trump card and uh getting a Belligan red card recidio, making him available for a knockout fixture against Belgium, right?
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:34.559
Martin, I know you live and breathe the integrity of the game.
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.199
That's absolutely a core of the ref support mission.
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:41.199
From that perspective, what was your take on this uh controversial matter?
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:49.440
Well, me me me first take on this from a referee perspective is what they did with the referee not allowing him into the country because they thought he was attached to some terrorist organizations.
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.960
You know, that was the first big shock for me.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.400
I was thinking, oh, really?
00:37:52.639 --> 00:38:00.320
Yeah, you really and and so that that's another set subject altogether, but that's backfired on them because he's become a real major profile referee.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:07.199
So, you know, he won a bit of a Willie Wonka golden ticket there by accident, and and rightly so because they you know the guys are top top ref.
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:16.000
Then when we come into what happened with with Trump getting involved in you know an American red card being sort of rescinded, was nothing short of a disgrace.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.400
And I think it it damaged the integrity.
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.360
I was disappointed in many people in in obviously Infantino.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.719
You know, what is he really?
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:26.239
He's a dead man walking in rightly so from what he's done.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.360
Per Luigi Kalina, who was like a god to me.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.519
Absolutely, absolutely he never come out and defended what's going on, really.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:34.639
And I was disappointed in that.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:39.840
He never came out and defended the referee that wasn't allowed in, and he never came out and said about the integrity of the game here.
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.320
All right, listen, that that sort of discipline isn't really forward in the referee's remit.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:49.119
Because it's a bit like you know, a police officer catching someone and they don't talk about what happens after that.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.800
I guess yeah, I get globalised.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:59.039
You know, we we're the ones that that you know give out the the sanctions that required in law, but we're not really partial to what you know the consequences of those transactions are.
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.039
So to me, it was a disgrace not sure.
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:05.199
Listen, President Trump is getting involved in so many things that you know I believe he shouldn't.
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:06.800
And he's just stay away from our game.
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.559
You don't even know what the game's about.
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:13.119
So Vicino gives him this sort of faux piece award, indeed.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.880
You know, while he's getting do you know what I mean?
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:16.719
It was just right from the way it go.
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:25.679
I just thought this is quite possibly going to be the worst World Cup ever dealing with from a moral standpoint, and that's saying something about FIFA, isn't it?
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.760
Hey, but controversy surrounds all sports, and look, we need it, we need the passion, and that's kind of what drives it.
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:39.360
But again, in a minute, we're gonna drill into the fact that let's not forget there is no games without the referees, and they are humans with all that that entails.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:50.480
But kind of appropriate to Martin to have you on uh today because everybody's favorite topic, VAR, and Matt Donahue and Blake uh Antrobus, they're back.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:58.079
They were kind of uh given a few weeks off following the Man City goal that was war earlier on in the season.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.239
Let me ask your takes on VAR.
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.960
It's here to stay, but is it easing pressure on referees or is it just muddying the waters?
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.280
What's your overall VAR perspective?
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.880
Well, listen, the VAR that I'm interested in is violence against referees.
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:12.079
That needs to stop.
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:14.719
That's the paramount VAR, in my opinion, across the world.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.440
Violence against referees needs to be addressed more than it does.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:24.239
And I wish people would moan more about a referee getting their head kicked in than some you know toe being on sides or off sides.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:30.719
Yeah, but VAR currently how it's shaped up is not what football fans, referees, and most stakeholders in the game thought it was going to be.
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:38.239
If you if you remember, VAR from PG M O L point of view, which was then now that now pro ref, they didn't even allow you to go to a screen.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.119
Now, the protocol from FIFA in the beginning was that you go to a screen.
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:45.519
Now, the first time a referee went over to a screen in our game was during an FA Cup game.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:45.920
Right.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.039
Which which people wouldn't really recognise what the score is there.
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.079
The FA Cup's run by the FA, not the PG M O L.
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.280
All referees can referee in in the FA Cup ball, you know, the all-cont referee in the Premier League or football league, etc.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:59.599
I thought that was an incessant development.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.559
That then slowly it got bigger where let's use the screen.
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:04.000
Then it was how do we use the screen?
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.199
What is the screen used for?
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:09.599
So it's always been a very organic subject, VAR, and it still is.
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:22.079
And in fairness to Howard Webb and what he's done, I think I think, yeah, this could be controversial to some fans, but I think he's been a game changer positively for us because he wouldn't they wouldn't allow people to talk about VAR conversations.
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.079
That was Howard Webb's idea, no one else's.
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:28.159
So now we we've elevated that to uh releasing you know conversations showing the game.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.239
Now we have mic'd up in other developments.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:32.079
You know, we didn't have to do this.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.239
Howard Webb did not have to do this.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:41.679
All right, it it looks a little bit clinical because you know they sort of shape what they're talking about, but he didn't have to do this right back to the mistake.
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:47.760
The bigger mistake that's probably ever been made in VAR was the Louis Diaz goal in Liverpool.
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:55.840
I'm a Liverpool fanborn and bred in Liverpool, but like you know, that was that should have been the absolute earthquake with VAR because that technically cost Liverpool winning the league.
00:41:56.079 --> 00:42:02.400
Absolutely, and it hasn't really, really been sort of and Darren England's you know has got his career got absolutely battered for that.
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:10.320
And then going back to your VAR recently about VAR, you know, getting suspended and and you know, not you know, demoted and all that.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.960
I I always like to discuss this from a football point of view rather than a referee point of view.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:18.480
If a referee makes a mistake, the accountability levels are through the roof.
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.639
Even if it's a throw in wrong that leads to a goal.
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.320
But it's never that same with players.
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.239
You never uh very seldom you wear players costing teams again.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:36.719
You know, I say all the time on Twitter, and my strategy to anyone who follows us on Twitter is that I do exactly what fans do, I become fanatical, radical about Defending a match official.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.599
It's a it's a by proxy of what I what they do, I'm gonna do back.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:55.840
I won't swear, I won't kick a you know a player's head in, but it's absolutely clear that players make more mistakes than match officials in every single game, but they just they want a referee suspended or demoted because you'd get a VAR decision wrong.
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.280
I remember watching Match of the Day once, and I'll talk about it in other podcasts.
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.320
Uh a team lost one nil, and I will name a team, I won't name a player.
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.159
Okay, and a player in the team that lost one nil missed two penalties.
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.239
Now, match of the day, the referee was Lee Mason.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:17.119
Match of the day concentrated on the mistake a referee made because he blew his whistle twice and the ball went in, so he actually called the free people and took the free kick again.
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.280
Now, Gary Renneker, they just they spent uh three minutes eighteen seconds.
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:21.840
Gotcha.
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.079
And um and he really castigated the referee.
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:26.239
He just said oh he was unlucky to miss those penalties.
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:38.320
Now, any anyone who's got a got a stake in in football emotionally or physically will tell you that missing two penalties in a game you lost one nil is a far bigger mistake than a referee Bronos whistle that was all this condemnation.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:44.800
They even finished the match of the day tune with the final whistle, a whistle of a referee, totally absolutely castigating the referee.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:46.079
That's what's wrong in football.
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:51.599
The accountability of a referee, a match of visual mistake, is worth 10 million times more than any player's mistake.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:52.320
That needs to change.
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:52.880
That's the problem.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:59.760
And that kind of narrative feeds into the fans who, of course, consume that and then spew it out across social media.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.679
Yeah, you already mentioned uh social media a bit earlier on in the piece.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:16.239
Just how much has that changed the landscape of the pressure and the abuse that our officials face, both at the very highest level and right down to where it's key, the grassroots, Martin?
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.679
It's it's fundamental, and and there's many levels to this, but I've seen a child at a game score a goal, no, no, no older than 11.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:23.840
Right.
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.800
And as he ran away, he kissed his finger like his wedding ring finger.
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:27.840
Where did he learn that?
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:37.840
I've seen children for years doing cruith turns and Aldo Goal celebrations, wearing a collar up like Cantonar and putting Vaseline on the chest like where do they learn that?
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.199
They only learn that from TV.
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:40.480
It's mimicked behavior.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:50.400
So any anyone with a sort of intelligence should think if they're gonna mimic positive behaviour, yeah, they're gonna mimic negative behavior.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:50.880
Of course.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.079
And that doesn't get noticed.
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:58.960
Another thing that really doesn't get noticed is that when someone like Michael Oliver referees Arsenal against Tottenham, he lives in Newcastle.
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:00.559
He ain't gonna bump into these players.
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:08.960
The majority of football referees make decisions, and if they're threatened, abused, or even beat up, they're gonna they're gonna probably bump into them in a supermarket run.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:09.280
Yes.
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:16.320
In the pro with the family, there's many incidences where a referee's gone to a supermarket with his family and someone's spat at him because he sent him off a month ago.
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:17.440
That's never recognized.
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.400
That locality is, and that's the majority of football.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.199
Remember, this is like professional games, one percent of the game.
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:31.280
Yeah, this needs to be recognized that like the results of the consequences of referees getting assaults doesn't just finish at the final whistle, and it's exactly the same as social media.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:38.079
And it's on social media, people take sides, and the next day it's on fire, it's become worse because someone else has got involved in social media.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:41.199
This is a society problem, and and it's no difference in football.
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.119
You know, something like that, and look at that stupid penant, and then they all pile in, they all pile.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:45.760
I do the opposite.
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.920
I I'll go on and say, Wasn't that referee brilliant today?
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:53.440
And you look at it, and so what happens is by proxy, they I'm doing to them what they do every day of the week.
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:59.119
I'm proven look at this, what you're doing, you know, massive, you know, even if the referee is right, yeah, but no chance, yeah.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.599
But he missed a throw in, yeah, but this, yeah, but that.
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:07.519
And then the the greatest thing that I love is that look at his camera view from behind the goal that the referee got that decision one.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.840
Well, is that where you want the referee to referee the game from?
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.079
Absolutely.
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:11.360
That's hilarious.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:12.079
That's a great point.
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.119
Honestly, and I and all these camera views, VO, honestly, good.
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:24.719
I've talked to the owners of Vio that I would love them to have a have a clause saying please be mindful of how you use the footage and what it's used for, there for player development, it's not there for slagging off referees.
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:24.960
Indeed.
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:28.559
And I've said to VO and the VO are out there listening to this, come back to me.
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.800
Wouldn't it be a brilliant, brilliant message?
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:38.480
A responsible message from VO to say, look, please don't use our the art camera and the footage from our devices to abuse and castigate referees.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:39.280
They can't control it.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:41.920
We were the first organization to have a 24-7 hotline.
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:42.480
Love it.
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:48.079
That you know, because and the reason I brought that in is because most referees and most footballers carried out out of office hours.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.840
County FA don't work weekends, they don't work after five o'clock.
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:55.039
Some great county affairs out there, by the way by the way, you do wonderful work.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.920
So that's why I did this 24-7, 365 day.
00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:58.719
Help, help Brian.
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:03.360
We've had calls from referees stuck in changing rooms crying because they've been stuck on it.
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:09.440
They phoned the referee, they found a local referee officer, and he he or she isn't answering because they're probably out refereeing themselves.
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.239
Yes, so it's it's a massive hole that's been there.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:21.280
And and then by the consequences of this or the byproduct was we proved that the referees, the uh FA's figures are incorrect and the abuse of it.
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:31.360
I proved it, I absolutely proved it because more people are coming to me saying I actually got assaulted and I went to the FA and they found him not guilty or not proven when he I've got physical cuts on me.
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:32.880
Yes, so how did he kick my head in?
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.719
But he had more witnesses say that didn't happen.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:43.679
So so they don't report it because that might have happened, or they're too scared to report it, like I mentioned earlier, because the people who kicked their head in is uh isn't on the school run.
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.559
That's it, literally he's next door neighbor, maybe as close as that.
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:50.400
Absolutely, and then and then the the FA will always and listen, don't get this wrong.
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.159
The FA have done some game changes.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.559
So we pushed for the body cam pilot for four years.
00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:11.199
I I myself lobbied for lobby the FA, and they weren't interested in the body cam pilots, and then there's a change of individuals at the referee's departments who were stopping it because they just went into it, and then now the FA were the first governing body in the world to do an F a pilot for body cam pilots.
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.800
Now that comes directly from me lobbying them, but fair play now all parties there.
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.920
Credit again to yourself and all the awesome work at Ref Support.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:27.039
I think you guys are an absolute force of good, but fair play because again, it's important when we wish to uh critique, as we do, the FA, etc.
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:31.440
But again, give praise where it's due to react to listen there and take on board.
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:31.840
I like that.
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:32.960
Yeah, there've been game changes.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:33.519
Absolutely game.
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:38.559
Listen, I threw stones at Wembley Stadium, smashing windows for many years for the doors to open, right?
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:54.559
Now when they they actually can consult with me now, there's some brilliant people at the FA who consult me for the changes that even as recent as a couple of months ago, there was a I noticed that when a referee gets assaulted and that player gets banned for five years, ten years, whatever.
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.000
The FA were not obliged to tell the referee that that player is back playing.
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:04.400
So that player going back to the locality of football, he could go to do a team and that player that kicked their heads in or assaulted them.
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.880
And I always over-emotionalise it for this reason.
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:08.480
He then walks on the pitch, and there he is.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.000
I'm there's the player who kicked his head in.
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:11.840
The FA weren't obliged to tell the referee.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:12.880
Can you believe this?
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:16.800
But any other walk of life, in any other walk of life, that's gotta be transparent.
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:23.119
If you're going to a job with uh an ex-offender, whatever you gotta make these things clear.
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:26.000
And transparent is only can you imagine?
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.519
I can only begin to compute the anxiety that must cause when you look across the page.
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.840
You're there to do your role, you're there to make the game live.
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:35.280
Without the refs, we got nothing.
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:38.239
And there he is, guy who's just bat nearly a month ago, or whatever.
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:38.960
It must be ridiculous.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:40.800
And it wasn't there.
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:41.840
I couldn't believe it.
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:42.719
And that we're happening.
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.079
There was a referee called Satyan Toki, Google his name, uh, Satyan Tokyo.
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:52.239
The video was sent to me, and that's another thing we did that the FA will always say, Top videos out, it compromises the case, blah blah blah.
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:59.840
And the referee association always obliges because the referee association get funding off these county FAs and the FA and the PGM, so they stay stun.
00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:01.039
That's another story from the day.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:01.840
The referee association.
00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:03.280
I put that video out.
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:09.199
I listen, I put that video out of Satyan Toki getting punched three times and it went by 16 million views.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.760
Big, big, big um journalists put it out.
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:12.000
Yes.
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.920
But that that player who on video punched the referee three times, cut his eye.
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:18.559
He got a ban by the FA for 10 years.
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:22.480
The the police didn't get involved because the police say, Oh, he's a teacher, which he wasn't.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.239
He was a coach who went into schools.
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:26.800
So, therefore, we're going to give him a caution.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:31.599
When the caution was issued by the Met Police, that player appealed the ban from 10 years, it got reduced to five.
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:37.599
So the process of mitigating the uh sanction by the FA should not oversucceed the laws of this land.
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.400
It should be the other way down.
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:39.360
So that's another subject.
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:44.400
Anyway, so then I came up with a memory on me on my LinkedIn that that was five years ago.
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.239
I thought, ooh, is he back playing?
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:51.280
So I phoned you sat yum and said, because they're keeping such all the referees who approach us.
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.920
And I said, Does the FA tell you if anyone's back?
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.320
He went, No.
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.599
I said, Do you know this player's back playing?
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:56.079
He went, No.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:02.079
So we wrote to the FA, guy called Alan Darfrey for the FA at Wembley, top, top lads, really forward thinking, positive.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:04.880
He's leads on discipline and um and regulation.
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.199
He said, Actually, Martin, no, that's not in place.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:09.360
He said, Yeah, but you know, referees might not want to know.
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:10.480
I said, Well, I don't care about that.
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:11.280
At least offer them.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:12.079
Do you want to know?
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:14.960
And then I said, Oh no, really, check in with these referees.
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:15.599
How are you?
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.920
Six months later, one one year later.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.639
How are you?
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:20.079
Are you getting some help?
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:21.199
None of that was in place.
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.840
It is now, purely because of my conversation with the FA.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:27.440
So we're already having real-time changes here with as a charity.
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.920
And we did the same, believe it or not, safeguarding a referee who's under the age of 18.
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:40.000
If he or she sends someone off, a coach, that coach appeals, that child referee had to appear in a room with that bloke and he can question them.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:40.639
Can you believe that?
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:44.960
And that's a clear safety as a breach against you know what's funny.
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:46.559
I I said no, I can't believe it.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:53.039
But based on everything that you've just communicated really well here, sadly, I actually can, if that makes sense.
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.599
It should it shouldn't be the case, it should be that just won't ever happen, surely.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.039
But it is the case, Martin.
00:51:59.119 --> 00:51:59.760
This is mental.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:00.960
It's mad mental, innit?
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:04.320
And so we approached the FA and that, then a couple of years later, it's still not quite there.
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:05.840
It's another conversation I'm having.
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:10.960
But like now, if you're under the age of 16, you don't have to appear at these hearings, which is brilliant.
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.480
If they're under the age of 18, you can do it by Teams call or Zoom call.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.800
Because let's be honest with the FA, when those regulations were there, Zoom wasn't there, teams call wasn't there.
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.920
So now so now they're they've they've moved the times in fairness to them.
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:32.159
But and these are the changes that I always say the FA's brought in real positive, they don't get recognized for, but there's other stakeholders in the game that that metaphorically and physically stand on the sidelines and do nothing.
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:39.840
If you go to the top of the game, yeah, the League Managers Association, they never come out and say what Yeagen Klopp just got stuck into a referee's face and give it loads.
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.039
Warnick, Panzerman character Warnick, always having a go at referees.
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.079
Where's the LMA's stance on that sort of behavior?
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:47.119
Nothing, zero, nada.
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:50.480
I would suggest follow the money trail, people.
00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:57.840
But uh exactly the PFA, one of the most powerful unions in the world, the PFA, they get five percent of all the TV deals, a lot of money.
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.960
Where do they do when you know the canyoge does that to a referee and pushes them over?
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:06.800
Where do they come out and say, so these PFA, the LMA, they need to step up more.
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:15.599
The FA have done an awful lot to change the game, and they don't get the credit they deserve with the PFA and the LMA metaphorically and physically sit on the sidelines and do nothing.
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:18.079
Mine, I love all that, and I truly love what you guys are all about.
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.639
Ref support, tell us more, tell us where we can find information.
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:22.480
Remind us again about that important hotline.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:29.760
Yeah, so we got the hotline which is 0300, double one, 1966, and it's 96 did the World Cup, that's why I did it so people can remember it.
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.400
Um, most of our information now comes through our Twitter account, actually, which is at ref support uk.
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:39.599
It's got, I think up until recently, it had more followers than the ref the FA's own referee accounts.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:40.639
Well, tell us your story.
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:46.159
Listen, because we tell we talk both sides, we don't place the referees, but we also actually that ref is wrong and it's why.
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.480
And we like to see a bit of a considered approach.
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:59.519
I do intentionally because disdain, because I'll I'll just defend the referee even if I know he's wrong, because I'm proven, you know, that I'll someone say that's never a red, and he got appealed and it got rescinded.
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.880
I go, Yeah, but how many how many sides is your player, you know, miss a pass, miss a shot?
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.159
Yeah, that's not the point.
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:05.280
He knows it is the point.
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:08.559
What's good for the goose is good for the gander people.
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:10.400
It really is that it's missed.
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:22.400
And I think uh our websites at refsupport co.uk is is people contact us through that, and it's it's sadly really because we get we get military veterans, we get soldiers running us and it plays on the minds at night, 10 o'clock at night.
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:34.239
It's not unusual for me to get a call at night where a trained killer, like a soldier, a padder, all those people from our wonderful armed forces go out and referee and they get called all the names of the summer, they don't react.
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:38.480
But they're saying if this was in a pub or of a game of pool, there'll be there'll be a different outcome here.
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:47.840
Those players would not say that to me in a pub, they would not say that to me, you know, face to face outside the realms of because they're guarding the standards and they believe in what they're trying to do as a referee.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.079
And I say it all the time, I say all the time.
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.159
Where they go home, they think, you know what, my instinct was to kick as head in, but I want to keep the model high ground.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:56.559
I want to I don't want to do that, but they know they could.
00:54:56.719 --> 00:55:05.599
So when you look at what referee abuse is, it's something that happens in a game that is normally delivered by cowards, by cowards, parents on the sideline.
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:08.320
Now there's changes now about what the FA are doing there, you know.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:09.920
Youth football's the worst.
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:20.800
You know, the game is that bad, that bad, that the FA brought out a scheme to say we're gonna give under 18 referees yellow armbands to wear if they want to identify them as a child to stop them getting abused.
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:27.440
Now, that is an absolute disgrace that we have got to identify children to protect them from abuse from adults.
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:28.400
That's a disgrace.
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:32.480
Now, fair play to the FA, this all went wrong in the beginning because the FA said, Oh, you can do what you want.
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:37.920
Some county FAs wore purple socks, some wore purple shirts, some wore green shirts, some wore handbands.
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.920
And I said, in itself, that's a disgrace.
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:45.360
I wrote to the FA and said, You need to control this and have one way of identifying a child's referee if you're going to do this.
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:48.800
Now the FA give out all the county FA's free handbands with respect on it.
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:50.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:52.000
Now that is an absolute disgrace.
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:58.400
The people in our game who abuse referees have brought this to a level where we've got to go actually don't abuse them, is it or here?
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.079
They're a child, just you know, don't do that.
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.840
And that's disgraceful, isn't it?
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:02.559
And that's now.
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:04.239
That's now that's happening tomorrow.
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:06.559
There'll be young referees wearing a yellow armband.
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:11.519
What the FA did do, it was really intelligent, they mitigate the fact that it's got a got a yellow armband on.
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:14.000
So they say you knew as a child, so that's mitigating.
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:14.800
It's a serious offense.
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.440
What I'm discussing with the FA currently is there's a thing called Laddo.
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:17.760
Okay.
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:21.199
MASH LADO is the local designated safety officer.
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:30.639
So there's any forms of jet child abuse, and this comes from the horrific case of uh BBP, where there's loads of these organizations knew what was going on, but they weren't talking to each other.
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:37.039
Right, they brought in this thing called MASH, which is a multi-agency safeguarding hub where whenever they happens, they all get sold.
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:43.280
So if someone who gets told from this department, you know, social services that that this has happened, we reckon this is happening to this child.
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:47.920
They automatically tell the others, and then the others go actually this has happened to us, and then and you build a picture quicker.
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:53.440
I'm now saying that the FA should make it obligatory for the DSL designated safeguarding leads of a club.
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:57.679
If they see a child referee getting threatened and abused, go to Lado, don't go to the FA.
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.760
Yeah, go to the FA and watch the watch a change because this is real-time consequences.
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:03.440
These can take your job away.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:04.480
These, you know, do you know what I mean?
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:06.000
These are sending you to jail, you know.
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:12.400
So these these sorts of conduits they are already in place, but they've never been used in a football of violence to protect children.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:14.320
Well, look, thank you for educating me about this.
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.079
Thank you for educating all our listeners about all this.
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:16.880
This is so crucial.
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.920
Matters, I would just say, look, guys, you know, they're human beings again.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:27.519
Without the referee, there is no sport, whether that's a World Cup final or the whether that's your lad playing under age, it doesn't matter, it's the same principle.
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:28.880
No referee, no game.
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:35.920
So just take a breath, think, and imagine what how would I feel if that was my lad about to get an abuse?
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:39.599
How would I feel if that was my cousin about to get a load of stick?
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.000
You think slightly differently, I'd like to think.
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:45.039
Martin, I could talk to you about these important topics all day.
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:46.239
You've been phenomenal.
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:51.119
But just before I let you go, is there anything you'd like to uh just address, highlight, or bring to our attention at all?
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:52.800
Yeah, I want to touch on something you just said.
00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:57.599
I've seen games where the parents is having absolute go at a referee.
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.000
Referee, he just kicked my lad.
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:01.519
Yeah, he's just kicked my daughter.
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:03.199
You're a disgrace, you're a disgrace.
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:06.800
He's protecting the child, but he's doing exactly the same to a child.
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:07.440
Absolutely.
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:08.800
That's a child's referee.
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:09.199
Yeah, absolutely.
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:15.760
So they don't see it, they just see their little potential way mooney, and then they they don't care the consequences of what they're saying.
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:17.360
So look, look at what you're doing.
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:22.480
Remember, this is this is not only a human, it's also a child in the football with the biggest problem.
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:23.360
It's a child.
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:28.639
You're they see this like black kit, well, you yellow kit, whatever you wear now, and your fair game.
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:30.400
It's like a cloth of invisibility.
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:37.119
They put that referee kit and they don't care, they'll they'll protect rightly so homophobic abuse, racial abuse, anti-semitism.
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.320
Oh, but referee abuse, didn't he haven't been able to have a go with him?
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:42.000
Oh, yeah, that doesn't matter.
00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:42.719
You see what I mean?
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:44.159
I'm tying back to the body cam pilot.
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:50.400
The body cam pilot was brought in to protect referees, but it also prevents homophobic abuse, anti-semitism, racial abuse.
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:51.360
Just do you know what I mean?
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:57.199
So when I opened it up to say, actually, you know, a body camera protects there are all forms of abuse and it's a training aid.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:01.599
Some referees will think, Oh, I didn't know I said that, I didn't know I talk like that.
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:03.039
I I was really condescending.
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:04.079
So everyone learns from it.
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.480
So to me, there's there's no losers on the body cam pilots.
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:16.000
And I just want to say the ref the referees' departments of the FA and the discipline departments and regulation are doing some wonderful work that really need to be praised, and it's time for other people to stand up.
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:16.880
Love that, Martin.
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.320
And I'm very grateful for your time.
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:30.320
And I love the fact that you there at Ref Support are massively stood up and are providing a powerful voice for often those who feel that they do not have a voice in this uh challenging social media-driven era.
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:31.760
It's been a notes of joy.
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:32.320
Thank you again.
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:39.920
I want to take a moment in closing to wish you and yours and the whole team there at Ref Support every continued renewed success, joy, and happiness.
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:40.400
Thanks again.
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:41.119
Thanks, Mace.
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:43.440
Yeah, awesome to hear there from Martin Cassidy.
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.519
Uh, again, if that resonates with you, if you're a young referee, we'd love to hear from you.
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:48.320
Do get involved.
00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:53.760
You can find us across social media, or of course, you can email to Tony and Steve's worldresport at gmail.com.
00:59:53.920 --> 01:00:02.880
But all of that, of course, pertains to another thing that we're a big champion of, and that is the important relationship between sport and mental health, mental well-being.
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:11.039
And often we forget that sporting impacts heavily on the mental health of our stars, the ones that we adore, our heroes.
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:13.599
And dad, I know there was some big news on that this week.
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:31.840
Yes, and you know, I would reiterate what you just said, Tony, that the impact on sport, the pressure that people are under, and referees, coaches, anybody involved in sport, there is a mental pressure, and it does sometimes get to a level where it it gives a breakdown to certain people.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:40.880
And I've got to mention Mark Allen, the snooker player this way, shows the fragility of sportsmen can exist at the top line level at any sport.
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:46.320
And I would say well done to the snooker authorities for supporting him and to the general public.
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:48.559
And Mark, we wish you well.
01:00:48.719 --> 01:01:01.119
Um, we understand your difficulties, and we will hope that you will fight your way through this as do many other sports uh personalities who struggle with the mental health.
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:04.639
It is uh a subject close to the heart of this podcast.
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:07.119
We have covered it right from the off.
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:14.559
And over the coming months, there will be something we will be doing uh to support mental health, but we'll go into that at a later date.
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:16.239
Mark Allen, we wish you well.
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:21.280
Absolutely reiterate that and want to say credit to him for uh being so open about this.
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:29.039
It is important that this becomes something that was not something that we're ashamed of, that we have open and honest conversations, and Mark Allen leading the way in that regard.
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:34.880
As you say, we wish you every renewed happiness as you fight your way through tough times.
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:40.159
But now it's tough for me to say it's a it's a wrap for this very episode.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.320
It's always a joy to speak sport with you.
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:44.800
Remember, it's your podcast every bit as much as it is ours.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.840
Do continue to keep involved as you guys do so well.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:56.880
But wherever you've been engaging with us, whether that's at the gym, powering out those PBs, doing those pesky chores that don't do themselves or wherever it might be.
01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:58.400
Thank you for being along for the ride.
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.719
Make sure you're with us each and every Tuesday or any time you choose to access and download.
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:06.639
But for here, for now, it's a big all the best.
00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:19.120
Hello again and welcome to Tony and Steve's world of sport.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:27.039
Make sure you're with us and know you're gonna be all episode, as always, all those sporting news stats, and a big Steve Rice shout out this week.
00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.920
The whole sporting world is eager for that one.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:36.640
But huge interview with the wonderful Martin Cassidy, CEO of Ref Support.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:47.039
No, you're gonna be with us all show, but dad, as always, we like to kick off our shows before we uh give everybody all the action news and information with a bit of feedback.
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:49.439
A regular download, a regular contributor.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.759
Matthew Turvy's got involved again.
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:56.719
He actually asks, Hi guys, I don't know if you've uh recorded yet, don't know if we've got time to get it in.
00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:58.399
Turvy, you did, good man.
00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.000
He speaks about Jimmy Anderson.
00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:01.520
We love Jimmy Anderson.
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.239
It's got to be political, Turvy says.
00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:12.480
Speaking about the quote unquote retirement from Lancashire last week of Jimmy Anderson, he says, Turvy, this is uh gets involved.
00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:15.920
Jimmy's never been one not to speak his mind.
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:22.799
And after the amount of service, 25 years plus he's given to Lancashire, he's got to have earned the right to give an opinion.
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.200
I wonder if he's upset the suits.
00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.799
The club, Lancashire County Cricket Club, is in a mess.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.359
I wouldn't be surprised if he've given a few home truths to the hierarchy.
00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:39.519
So Turvey weighs in on his opinions on the quote unquote retirement of Jimmy Anderson from Lancashire Cricket Club.
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:41.840
Dad, it does have a bit of a stench to it.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:43.200
What's your thoughts on this one?
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:44.560
I wouldn't call it a stench.
00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:56.959
I would say that Anderson has been an absolute brilliant ambassador for the game of cricket and an amazing performer at test level, and his contribution to Lancashire beyond recall.
00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:05.680
Even this season at his age, he took 50 wickets, and despite the team finished second bottom, and he was their player of the year.
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:06.239
Indeed.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.360
However, nothing goes on forever.
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:16.800
And sometimes a club or a team has to take a controversial look at things and start again.
00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:25.680
And maybe just maybe Lancashire are looking inwards and saying, you know what, he's great, he's been great, but we can't hang on to his coattails forever.
00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.879
I can't answer this whether he's upset people.
00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.240
I don't think he would have done.
00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:37.199
I think this is a decision on the future of the club which doesn't involve him playing.
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:41.759
I can't believe that they won't use him in a capacity at all.
00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:46.000
I find that rather strange and totally untenable.
00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:47.199
They need help.
00:02:47.360 --> 00:03:00.719
But if Anderson wants to continue playing, which he does seem to indicate he does, then perhaps it's time, you know, if Lancashire don't want him for him to go to another club, which would be for him a rather big shock.
00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.479
But it happens in sport, and I'm afraid Allison is getting old, he can't go on forever.
00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:11.360
Lancashire are in trouble, they have to change things, and sometimes I've seen it in other sports.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.520
You drop your best player, you sell your bless player, and it's the end of the world.
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:16.400
No, it isn't.
00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:17.439
You move on.
00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:19.280
So thank you, Jimmy Anderson.
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.719
I hope you find another club because you clearly want to play.
00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:28.159
Somebody should be picking this man up because he's still got a couple of seasons in him, although there is injury worries.
00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:31.599
But Lancashire need to take a different course, and I can understand that.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.360
I hear what you're saying, I don't dispute it.
00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:34.560
And again, we need to look into this.
00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:53.840
Hussein has come out this week saying that there was quite potentially lots of political ramifications here, and the suits, as uh Matthew Turvey put them in question, uh Richard Kenyon and Paul Fairbrades, as you say, Dad, look, 44 years old, going to be 45 next season, but he keeps himself in such good nick.
00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:59.199
And as you observed, an amazing season, 50 wickets at 17.68 apiece.
00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:00.400
That's world class.
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:02.719
He can still do it, and I don't know.
00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.599
He himself, Anderson has said, if it was up to me, it wouldn't have ended like this.
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.439
I think he's gonna get another gig.
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.560
I I think he's you say, Yeah, look, nothing lasts forever, father time remains unbeaten, and all of that.
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:27.040
But I think Lancashire here are kind of cutting off their nose despite their face, and I think they still could have maybe found a better means to ease this legend into retirement as opposed to the waiting handle.
00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.519
They have, they absolutely have.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:39.040
But uh, we're gonna keep you caught up with all your sporting news, which means the world of sport is eager.
00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:39.839
They're tense.
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:46.319
I can always feel the tension from the sporting world because they cannot wait to find out who this week's Steve Rice Shout out is.
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.319
So, without any further ado, this is your news.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:10.160
Indeed, here is your news, which means here it is this week's Steve Rice shout out.
00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:11.600
Steve, what do you got for us?
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:20.160
Well, this is an interesting one this week, because generally speaking, generally speaking, it goes to somebody that's won something.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.319
Well, this week's shout out, it goes to Harry Brooks.
00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.000
A double hundred, and yet he still loses.
00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:36.879
His 202 beat Ben Stokes 182, it only 114 balls, beating Schuben Gill's 117.
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:43.920
He is an amazing player, and England, how they lost that game, I do not know.
00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:48.399
Just to go further with Harry Fabrooks, he holds a unique treble in tests.
00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.160
He stands above Joe Root, Jeff Boycott, and Graham Gooch.
00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:57.680
Magnificent players in their time with a test average of 53.08.
00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:07.680
He also had holds a T20 average of 36.21 at a strike rate of 164.92.
00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:12.399
It's the second highest run chase ODI internationals.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.959
They he loses the match despite his magnificent performance.
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:20.160
It's got to be a shout-out for Harry this week.
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:21.040
Well done.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:27.279
A shame about losing, but you know, my shout out this week is Harry Brooks.
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.240
I really like it.
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.160
Uh guys, I want your views on Harry Brooks.
00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.920
We were talking about him potentially being uh an England captain in the making.
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:41.120
He is a captain of that one-day international side, but joining absolutely unique elite category here.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:54.000
He joins only one other man, uh, the West Indian legend, Chris Gale, to have got a hundred in T20, a double hundred now in ODIs, and a triple century at test level.
00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:55.600
Very, very elite category.
00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.120
Dad, it's a fair shout out.
00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.160
But we say, don't we, winners win, losers find a way to moan about what could have been.
00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:24.079
And yeah, they lose for Sri Lanka in that run chase, epic as it was, and then they find a way to lose against Pakistan, which included the record for the last wicked partnership 889 there between the Pakistanians, but two defeats where they've basically found a way to lose as opposed to being, you know, shellacked.
00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:25.360
That's not a good habit, though, is it?
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:26.800
This is a bad habit.
00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:35.040
This is sending bad signs because also it sends signs out to the world that actually England are beatable no matter what.
00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:43.040
Yeah, these two records that have just fallen, you know, to lose matches where you have a total stranglehold is not acceptable.
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:47.680
And they've got to look inwards again and decide there's a lot of work to do.
00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:49.120
It's what should we say?
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:55.439
There's some managers and coaches there who've got to look at what our performance was all about, and they've got to look inwards.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:57.360
Maybe Jimmy Anderson comes back.
00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:58.639
Love that shout.
00:07:58.720 --> 00:07:59.839
I don't think it's gonna happen.
00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:04.560
Hey, but Alison, I'm I'm sure Anderson still has a great short-term future in the game.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:05.279
What a legend.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.160
Less than a year, though, till the one day international world cup.
00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:15.600
That's gonna be in South Africa and Zimbabwe and Namibia, three nations, starting October the 2nd, spreading to November the 21st, next year, 2027.
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.319
So not long for England to get that act together.
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:23.120
But Dad, sport reminds us always, doesn't it, that things can happen incredibly quickly.
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:28.319
We were very much tracing Spurs' woes of late, but two good results for them.
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.839
Sees them climb up the league, easing the pressure on De Zerby.
00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.399
Uh, gotta give the Spurs men a massive amount of credit, right?
00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:38.000
Well, this is an interesting season in terms of the bottom of the table.
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:39.440
It's open at the moment.
00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.559
There's nobody sitting there looking completely doomed.
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:44.799
It changes week to week, but you're quite right.
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:47.120
Spurs have climbed out of the relegation zone.
00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:55.200
I'm very impressed with De Zerby because last week, when he was under pressure, he very calmly said he wasn't concerned.
00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:56.559
And I think he meant it.
00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.879
And his team have started to play football, started to score goals.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:02.159
Well done to him.
00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:07.600
I think that Spurs are now beginning to look like they're not gonna go and win the league.
00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.639
They might perhaps win a trophy, who knows?
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.759
But they're they're gonna be in the bottom half of the league, I believe.
00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.559
I don't think they're that special just because they've won a couple of games.
00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:19.120
So well done to the Spurs for doing that.
00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.519
However, we have a carrick problem.
00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:33.600
And Sony and I last week decided that we weren't gonna talk about the sack race very much, and we were impressed with people saying how you know that we we're too quick to talk about the sack.
00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:39.120
However, this weekend's problem with Manchester United is a problem.
00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:40.480
Now, we don't know.
00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:58.080
Whilst we're recording this, I'm sure there are meetings going on at Man United, and with feeling is that Carrick is going to get the sack, and it's a shame because the fans like him and they they want to keep him to stay, but it's very likely he will go, especially he's got a visit Chelsea come this weekend.
00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.879
So, really, I I'm not sure it's a great thing.
00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:06.399
I think you know the there's a problem at Manchester United that's more deep-rooted than the manager.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:07.279
What do you think, Tony?
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:08.000
Yeah, hugely.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:11.840
Look, I mean, they've had since Ferguson so many great managers, haven't they?
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.200
Uh heralded managers, managers who come in with great CVs.
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:19.200
They've tried then um, you know, to go with up-and-coming managers.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:20.399
It's not quite worked out.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:35.200
They've tried legends like Solskjaer, they have seemingly tried every equation, and yet post-Ferguson, a few trophies here or there withstanding, it has been just an absolute litany of disaster for this great, great club.
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.600
And I do feel a bit sorry for Carrick.
00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:38.720
I think you're dead right.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:43.679
I think he is unfortunately um very much gonna be uh biting the bullet for this one.
00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:44.639
But I don't know.
00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:49.679
I think there are severe problems at the club, and that goes right on top.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:11:02.240
But that here's the thing you know, we talk about uh financial fair play and obviously all the Man City controversies, man you last season, man Un United last season are operating at a 1.5 billion loss.
00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.360
1.5 billion loss into the negative.
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:10.799
I mean, it's not sustainable, they have this history, but massive changes are required.
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.679
Otherwise, I don't know anybody that could turn the ship around.
00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:23.279
Well, then talking about turning the ship around, obviously uh the conversation is now moving on as to who would be a good appointment to replace Carrick, and there are three or four possibilities.
00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.120
Um, first of all, Conte.
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:30.960
I think that would totally end in tears, and he's not the right man, although he is being muted.
00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.720
I think Eddie Howe would be a very good appointment.
00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:42.879
I think he he would be up to the job, and also there is rumors of uh the interest from Julian Nagelsmann, the former German manager.
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:49.519
Possibility, but I think the best person would be you know Henry, who's doing a magnificent job at Aston Villa.
00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:54.720
But I hear it's very unlikely for him to take it whilst he's doing so well at that club.
00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:56.960
He's got total control at Aston Villa.
00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:57.279
Absolutely.
00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:57.919
Would he get that?
00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.080
Would he get that control at Manchester United?
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:00.879
No, he wouldn't.
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:07.679
Look, I think uh first and foremost on that, I want to say a massive uh amount of uh respect to uh to Emory.
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.679
What he's achieved is remarkable.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:12.399
Again, they were under pressure at the start of the season.
00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:16.879
We talked financial fair play, which I find very Orwellian, frankly.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.960
Basically, because of that, to balance the books, he had to sell almost a whole squad.
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:21.919
He did that.
00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:33.679
Uh, he suffered a few uh bad results to start the campaign, but they absolutely shellacked Man City, uh, inflitting the um Man City men's first defeat of the campaign.
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.240
Credit to a new signing that Emory brought in, uh Jackson, seven goals in eleven since signing from Chelsea.
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:55.840
But Emory, again, what he does, you know, for Villa winning the uh European trophy last season, getting them into the Champions League this year, he's a consistent winner, a very astute man, and I think he could well be the man to turn the likes of Man United around.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:57.440
But no, I don't think he'd won it.
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:02.960
And I want to ask you who do you think should be the next Man Yu Head Honcho?
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.639
Find us across social media, or of course you can send us those long emails.
00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:12.399
A la MatthewTurvey to Tony and Steve's worldesport at gmail.com.
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.159
Dan, for you though, Emery the man.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:15.679
I I would have said yes.
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:21.519
The problem with Manchester United is they've had more managers than we've had prime ministers in the last 10 years.
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:23.600
I believe we've had enough of those.
00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.600
I don't think Emory will take it.
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:30.960
I think the outsider uh in the in the frame, I think Eddie Howe will end up doing it.
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:38.000
A British manager with some degree of pedigree, with his eyes on the England futures job and a bit of respect to him.
00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.600
He turned Newcastle around, although it didn't go as far as he would like it.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.840
I I'm rooting for seeing Eddie Howe in the chair.
00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:44.879
Okay, more new views.
00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:46.080
I'm sure you've got them.
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:47.919
So uh find us across social media.
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.919
Of course, you can email us Tony and Steve's world of sport at gmail.com and United fans.
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.440
I know you've got opinions right now.
00:13:53.600 --> 00:14:00.240
But there, Dan, you mentioned our Prime Minister talking at the very top of the political world in football.
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:08.799
Infantino looks like he's gaining support, even though he is a man who is a living, breathing, controversial, controversial figure.
00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:10.799
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm disappointed.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.279
We did discuss this in a few episodes ago.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.600
It does look like he's going to get a third term, which will make it 12 years.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.879
It's very sad for football, but you know, there we go.
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:33.360
I've been looking into this uh presidency role, and it it's been an interesting look back because it only got changed to three terms after the said blatter fiasco in 2016.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:44.720
And uh the longest serving president was a great Jules Rime, 35 years, and he obviously started the World Cup, hence the trophy's name.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:52.879
I think my opinion, and I'd like to hear from other people on this, is that actually two terms is enough, three's too many.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.799
There are now going to be 48 nations competing in World Cups.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.000
12 years to oversee that is too long.
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.519
Two terms is enough.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.519
We need to share it around a bit more.
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:04.799
I think it's time.
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.120
I loved your shout from our very first episode, Dad.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.440
A real uh left of centre shout with uh Sir David Beckham as the man.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.679
Maybe we do need somebody never gonna happen and never gonna happen, I agree.
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:21.120
But maybe we do need an outsider, somebody um new to breathe integrity into the game.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:30.480
But tell you what, guys, if you're into integrity and sports, and I know you are, you want to be with us all episode a fantastic interview with Martin Cassidy from Ref Support.
00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:34.799
Martin referred to Infantino as a dead man walking with recent support, though.
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:36.480
It looks like he's looking strong.
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:39.679
In fact, at the moment, he is unopposed.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.440
We have until November the 18th for somebody to stand against him.
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:44.159
Will that happen?
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.360
And again, I want your views.
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.039
All things politics in sport, politics in football.
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:49.919
Who should be the man?
00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.919
Should it be El David, Sir David?
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:52.639
I'd love that.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:54.399
Get involved, you know how to.
00:15:54.799 --> 00:16:02.320
But there, that is maybe the biggest role in football, but maybe the biggest reward for goals in football is the ballon d'or.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.000
Just a quick one on this one, Dad.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.720
Well, you've used the good word integrity.
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:10.960
And if there's any integrity in Harry Kane, we'll win this.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.000
If he doesn't, there's something wrong.
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:28.320
He's done it all right, he's done it year in, year out, performed brilliantly for England, brilliantly for a difficult Spurs team, and magnificently for a foreign team in Bayern, Munich.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.639
If he doesn't get it, there ain't no integrity.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:31.679
Good luck, Harry Kane.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:32.320
Hope you get it.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.080
Hey we'll certainly be banging out some uh tweets that we'll have you watch us across social media.
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:42.720
We are all on about cheering on Harry Kane, hoping indeed there remains integrity and justice in the sporting world.
00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:51.279
Harry Kane, of course, a great goal scorer, but I want to give a bit of news and a bit of respect to a great try scorer, a massive one this one.
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:51.759
I love this.
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:56.960
Christian Wade uh scored on Friday against Sale for the Newcastle team.
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:06.160
That's his sixth of this campaign, but more significantly, that represents not room 101, but tri 101 for Christian Wade.
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:13.599
That levels him up with the great Chris Ashton, top all time, both of whom have 101, still loads of this season left.
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:18.000
You can only imagine Wade gonna overtake the great Ashton.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.160
So, yeah, just credit to Christian Wade.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:20.960
What an effort.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.119
15 years since his debut try for Wasps, way back when.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:26.400
Still going strong.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.079
Love that for Christian Wade, Dad.
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:29.519
Quickly, your thoughts on that flyer.
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:39.519
Marvellous performance, as you say, got lost a lot of season to go, so he's gonna break it and possibly put it into a position where it'll take many, many years for somebody to overtake that.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.279
Some record stand for a long time.
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:46.880
Chris Ashton was great in his day, and to overtake him, big achievement, and uh well done.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.799
And I'm sure we'll see a little bit more of him as the season progresses.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.160
Only one England Cup.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.119
I find that strange.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:53.920
But there we go.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.720
And I'll tell you what's really impressive about Christian Wade.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.759
Again, he will surpass the great Ashton.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.680
It's gonna happen, it's just a matter of time.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:08.240
But he actually was out of the English world in uh rugby from 2018 till 2024.
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:14.160
He spent a few seasons with the Buffalo Bills trying to make it in the NFL, it never quite happened for him.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:19.599
And then he spent a couple of seasons out in France for Wrestling 92.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:26.400
So to be out of the equation for basically six seasons and still be there, number one now.
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:28.319
I mean, that's quite impressive, isn't it?
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.960
And to to have no regrets in life, I think that's key.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.079
And I don't think he'll have many.
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.640
It does explain his one cap for England as well.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:41.680
Being out, being out of the game, uh, you know, uh out of the actual game of rugby, being in America, and then going abroad.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.119
You're not, you know, you're not gonna get capped under those circumstances.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:45.920
But well done anyway.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.240
Hey, talking rugby, less good news for the Red Roses again.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.200
Canada get an important victory for them.
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:54.640
31-22.
00:18:54.799 --> 00:19:02.240
We've been tracing the Red Roses and their great win streak, which has been shattered now, and that's a second straight defeat.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.759
Uh, are there causes for concern now in the Red Roses camp?
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:06.319
Do you think?
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:14.000
Yes, there are causes of concern, but there's still a very, very good side, very hard to beat, and it's part of life.
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.559
You know, you're gonna lose some time, and I know maybe the team needs a bit of a shake-up.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:23.119
Um I'm very disappointed in John Mitchell.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:25.519
He now is bitching around.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:27.599
I don't like this at all.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.079
Oh, there's no uh game time for English girls in the PW.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.759
Come off it, John.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:39.200
You weren't saying that when you had a 39-week running run, um 39 match winning run.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.559
That's a bit rich.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.799
I'm not happy with this man now.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:48.559
He may have a point, but I think it's time to put up, shut up, or resign.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.839
I like basically what you said there about the fact it is just evolution.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.119
You cannot keep winning.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:54.960
Teams catch up, they evolve.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.880
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:05.279
Like you observe, he wasn't uh griping in any way, shape, or form when they were on that ridiculous 39-game winning span.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.119
It is interesting though, there is no Canadian Pro League.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:19.119
So, of course, these immensely talented Canadian women, for the betterment of their career, their self, their families, come to the English uh women's Premier uh League.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:26.799
And 11 Canadians actually featured in the last July final between Saracens and the Trailfinders.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.200
So 11 out of 30, that is a big chunk.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:37.200
But here's the thing the PWR mandates for each match day squad has to have 13 England qualified players available.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:38.880
So there's still ample opportunities.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:39.680
I think Mr.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:43.039
Mitchell needs to get off his high horse, refocus on the team.
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:43.839
That's my company.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:52.960
And I want a British manager in uh a lady, a woman, but like we had on the football team, a very successful football team.
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.599
Let's not have these blokes dominating the women.
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.160
Come on, there must be a candidate out there who can take him, take him on and move it forward.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.200
It's time to move forward.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.119
Sorry, John, but it's time's up.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.480
You've made a mess of this.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:09.039
The time is not yet up for England in the rugby league side of things.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:16.880
They absolutely destroy France by 82 points to nil, meaning that their slim World Cup hopes are still there.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.119
They have a 68-point deficit.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.119
They have to hope that Tonga beat Samoa.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.759
So, quite frankly, it's still highly unlikely.
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.680
But yeah, this uh farcical Rugby League World Cup carries on a pace.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:35.039
I want to say really quickly, we were critical, weren't we, about the um Premier Sports coverage.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:44.559
And we don't yet have the Premier Sports details from the viewing figures, but in Australian perspective, obviously rugby league is huge in Australia.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:50.000
Their channel 7 pulled in massive viewership for several games, almost 2 million.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:55.519
And like that viewership of 2 million for Australian uh per capita, immense figures.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.839
So it's still very popular, but damn my goodness me, there have been some horrible.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.039
Horrible score lines to watch from a competitive point of view.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.119
Some massive points differences.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.519
It's not a healthy place, I don't think.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:12.240
Well, this is the problem with a lot of sports when they have a World Cup.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:17.920
You've got the minnows of the so-called minnows who are drawn against the bigger guys and they can't hack it.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:19.680
And it doesn't do the game any good.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:21.359
It happens in football.
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.240
It happens in even rugby union had it when you know.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:35.920
I mean, these teams do improve over the years, but there isn't enough, what should we say, players and sort of countries playing rugby league to change that.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:42.000
And I think there's a problem, and I don't know the answer, but it ain't doing them any good to watch people win 84-0.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:50.640
It's not good viewing, even if you're playing in that victory, you can't take any, what should we say, uh grace from beating somebody like that.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:59.119
It's not a game, uh, it's a massacre, and uh you you you you just gotta go in and think, well, that was a waste of my time and the viewers' time.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:07.359
So I'm not happy about it, but it does happen in all sports, and it's time to maybe for rugby league to think about whether uh they can do something.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:22.960
But rugby union did have its own problems as well with uh you know the minnow teams getting well beat, and now to be fair, you know, you do get upsets in rugby union, you know, you get the Fiji's coming through, you get the Japanese beating the Irish, you know.
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:28.960
So it does happen, but um, I can't say rugby league is looking that likely.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.640
No, I think both sports at the moment seriously need to do a lot of soul searching.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:40.240
Uh, as I say, I'm not hoping this, I'm just gonna reaffirm that is my fear that the one day, just to pull resources, there will just be rugby.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.279
And I'd love your views on that.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.759
No, sorry, you said that last week, it's doing it again this week.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.759
I totally disagree with you.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.039
It won't happen.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.559
I hope it doesn't, truly.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.839
Truly, I hope it doesn't.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.440
But like I say, again, just to pull resources, and uh just we'll see, just the way trends are going in the rules of rugby union is my concern.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:08.079
But your views, I want your views on this, do uh tweet, uh find us across social media, or of course you can email to us to Tony and Steve's worldfort at gmail.com.
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.839
Rugby league in maybe a bad way, maybe you want to say otherwise as well.
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.599
I'd love your rugby league opinions.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:25.680
But another uh aspect of uh rugby league, of course, a breakaway from rugby union way back when it's a struggling element of breakaway golf, the LIV scene is fading.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.960
Dad, a few uh notes on the LIV right now.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.920
Well, the inevitable's happened uh or is happening.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:39.359
The players who've made millions and millions of pounds of the breakaway LIV golf tournament, it's falling apart.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:48.079
The sponsors are not paying the bills, they're they're owed a lot of money, and the key players are starting to start to pull out and it's gonna fall apart.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.519
It always was.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.599
Um, it never looked like it was gonna uh be a total success.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:00.720
It has damaged the attitude of other players playing with each other, it has damaged the name of golf.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:13.680
Um, but I think thankfully, um, once this goes, you go back to normality, and there's enough money out there, for goodness sake, to uh really compete, even if you're not gonna win tournaments.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:18.000
There's a lot of money in the top ten, and that's what it was all about.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.319
It was about money, and that this is the problem in sports.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:28.960
Money makes the sport go round, and unfortunately, that's the way the world is turning.
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:30.880
Sad, but that's the way it is.
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:32.160
It is indeed sad.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.799
But uh, one sport that does it well and is really expanding its horizons is the NFL.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:46.000
Big game in Paris saw the Pittsburgh Steelers overcome the New Orleans Saints by 16 points to 10.
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:53.920
That was the seventh different country that's now been covered by the NFL in a regular season context.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.000
So they're always expanding their horizons.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:01.759
Another game in Mexico coming up, and they're gonna go crazy in uh Munich, I think, next week.
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:24.720
It's huge across Europe now, and they were treated to a feast there in Paris with veteran QB uh for the Steelers, Aaron Rodgers throwing his 540th career touchdown pass, seeing them overpass, overtake the legendary Hall of Famer Peyton Manning coming into third place all time in the touchdown uh pass list.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:33.440
So a great historic performance there from the legendary future Hall of Famer Aaron Rodgers, and great for the NFL to expand into a raucous Paris.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.440
It was a fantastic scene, and what a season it's already been so far.
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:44.559
Seven games in, and before this weekend kicked off, 57 games was decided by just one score.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.039
Meaning that again, it brings parity, it brings closeness, it brings competitive action.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:50.720
You gotta love the NFL.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.359
Well, I'm really glad you're doing this, Tony, with the NFL.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.240
I I as a I'm not a big fan, don't watch much of it.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:01.119
But what I do know about our podcast is that we have a very good American following.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:09.200
About nearly 20% of our listeners are in the States of America, and so I think it's great that you're following their national sport.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.400
I think it's important that uh we keep that up to date.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:20.000
And I know you're an absolute statistician and that they love it, and your knowledge of the game is is very, very good.
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:28.960
And I think for me, although it's not something I'm uh uh knowledgeable about or in a supporter of, I do enjoy listening to the stats that go around.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:37.680
And I think it's an important thing that this podcast will continue to cover, and I know that you'll increase it as we get closer to that wonderful occasion, the Super Bowl.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.039
Oh, I love the Super Bowl.
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.160
Every February is a big moment in my time in my year.
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.680
I've got it already circled.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:48.000
But uh circling back, that is it now for your news.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:11.279
Always a joy, though, to give you the updates and news from the awesome team at Tempest Village Group.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.480
Remember, of course, their interview with their fabulous uh visionary Chris Simpson Daniels.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.400
You can find that episode too.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:27.839
All our awesome episodes available for downloading wherever you get your podcasts from, and some big updates, as always, from the team at Tempest.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:41.039
They've had some great calls, including to Haywood Solutions, to discuss fundraising for TCP, an ex-world champion boxer uh who wants to be involved with Tempest, had conversations with them last week.
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.599
Uh, lots of good interviews for security managers and investment managers to boot.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:55.039
Age UK have visited the community building to discuss renting space, and dance classes are now held every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.000
And the games and youth sessions are on a Friday.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.680
Tempest Village Group, check them out.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:04.319
Episode two, check all our episodes out, available wherever you get your podcast from.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.000
But Dad, I know you wanted to just spend another moment just expressing our gratitude to the team at Tempest.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:11.279
Yes, I would like to.
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.519
I'd like to thank the Tempest Village Group.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:28.640
They they very kindly came with uh Simpson Daniel on the show in the early stages of this podcast and have embraced our podcast with uh uh allowing us to update and give bulletins out, which is a very important part of our show.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:42.559
This group does great things, and I would encourage anybody listening to download the Tempest Group uh website and and look at what they're doing, see if there's anything you can do to assist and help.
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:47.279
They've got lots of different opportunities, and I think they're doing a great job.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:55.599
And I, through this podcast, would appeal for people to look at what they're doing and see if they're interested in helping out in any capacity whatsoever.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.720
And I thank Tempest Village Group for joining our podcast.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:04.079
And since they have sent us some uh very nice, what should we say, graphics?
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.920
We put the graphics onto our website and the downloads shot up.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.559
Amazing.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.839
Thank you very much.
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:10.880
Yeah, awesome stuff.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.039
And I want to say a big thank you to Martin Cassidy from Ref Support.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:20.400
We talk V A R yes, everybody's favorite, but also violence against referees.
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.039
This is an important interview, it's coming at you now.
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:31.920
Here on Tony C's World Sport Podcast, we are very big on all things to do with controversy in sport and referring, of course, is a big one in that regard.
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:47.359
We're also massive in the importance of sport and mental health, both as it impacts us positively and also the stresses and strains it can impart onto our stars, performers, and indeed those upholding the laws of the games.
00:30:47.599 --> 00:31:03.119
So, with that being said, it could not be more appropriate to welcome to the podcast Martin Cassidy, CEO of the tremendous independent charity Ref Support, who's also head of football and community development for goals football.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:04.640
Martin, welcome, how are you?
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.359
Uh hi, mate.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:05.759
I'm fine.
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:13.519
It's really interesting what one bit you mentioned there, and like I always say when I'm on podcasts or TV or radio, I like to come in blind.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.880
I don't like to do prepared notes, and I'm really pleased that that's how we're gonna go.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:24.000
But you mentioned mental health there, and one of the things that never ever seems to get recognized is the mental health of match officials.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.559
Of course.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:46.160
You know, I I see our Twitter accounts at Rev Support UK, we've got 25,000 followers, and you get these people to come on and they'll absolutely state a referee, they'll name the referee, they go so and so and so and so in our game today at Portsmouth, is a disgrace, needs to be and then you look on their on their bio and it's go, oh, mental health advocates, and you're like really read the room, read the room, mate.
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:54.400
I don't quite know how people's sense of self marries sometimes with what they proclaim and what they actually live and breathe.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.160
But it's a long chat, Martin.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:17.119
Before we delve into all of these important topics, one thing I wanted to learn a little bit more about is I know recently, back in back into September, I think the 23rd to the 29th, there in your capacity as a you know a ref support, plus in involved in the development of the game, you were out in Cambril, Spain, for the European mini football tournament.
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:19.279
I think there were four separate events going on.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.440
Tell us a bit more about that event out in Spain.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:26.400
Yeah, yeah, mini football is the term the rest of the world uses for the small side of the game.
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.920
So their being in mini football is like a smaller number of players than 11.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.759
In here in England, it's viewed as like the kiddies game, so it gets a little bit convoluted.
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:43.359
But listen, I'm I'm very proud to be chairman of the referees committee of the European Mini Football Federation, and I'm on the committee of the World Mini Football Federation where we hold World Cups.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:59.440
You know, our World Cup uh year before last was in Baku, 12,000 seats of the stadium filled up, you know, it's it's 142 million viewers around the world watch you, and it's it's huge, it's it's basically six-side football with a couple of different um different rule changes, which are really positive for the game.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:17.440
We use two referees, we have one each side similar to futsal as of so many of the listeners would have known about border league, but border league has evolved from mini football where gotcha they've got you know major, major YouTubers uh putting in teams every Monday, big arenas, and we've been using this format for a long time.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.559
It's starting to grow massively in in the UK.
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:21.680
We work alongside.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.519
I have three hats on really you have the ref support hat with the chief executive.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.559
Yeah, I have the chairman of the referees committee on the European Mini Football, 32 different countries.
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.960
We had 40 referees from 28 different countries at Cabrilles.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:41.599
We had the first time we had two female referees, referee in men's and men's six aside Champions League game.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.039
Um, so it's just massive.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.279
It's really grown in here, and we work with goals.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:34:02.880
My other job is head of football and community development for goals, which are the one of the biggest in the world of the smallest game, so it all fits in really neatly where we give players and referees opportunities to referee across the world live TV games in front of audiences they would not get over here in absolutely in this country.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.400
So it's a big organization.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.640
And Cambrills was great, really, really good.
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.639
Four different competitions men's Champions League, uh Men's Euro Cup.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:17.599
We had men's women's champions league, women's Euro Cup, and we also had another one on it, the Masters, which is like you know, the old Masters we used to do.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:25.440
Like we we we can have pathways now in England where we have a competition under the Masters format, and then they can represent goals and play abroad in these competitions.
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.800
It's like it's a monster, a monster size of what I do.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:38.480
But again, it's all tied in with referee support, referee development, FE training, and giving you know grassroots referees opportunities to ref internationally and get paid for it, which is fantastic.
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.880
But one thing just real quick before we branch back into kind of the focus of refereeing.
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:48.639
I mean, first of all, credit massively to our lionesses, who have obviously European Championship World Cup finalists.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:54.559
But again, I know the trend recently is you know, well, we're we're making progress for England men's football team.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:56.880
You know, we're you know, we're competing, we're making finals.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:58.159
It's still the case, isn't it?
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.880
That 66, since then, nada.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:11.280
Do you think that this maybe should be more uh investigated, focused in on this shorter form improving technique, which could potentially benefit all the way up the ladder, just a thought.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:12.400
You know, no, I agree.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:21.199
And it's it's really interesting, actually, because UEFA articles of association are their small side of football format is beach soccer and footsal.
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.320
Wow, that's like so.
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.920
They they every single federation should deliver and support beach football and footsal.
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.039
Now, six aside football and five aside football, seven side football.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.320
We've only got a lot, we've we've got nearly four thousand teams and goals.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:35.920
It's much bigger than footsal.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.199
It's a massive, massive, much bigger than football than foots.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:44.719
But but the butt, you know, FIFA dictates that you know they concentrate on a beach football and footsal.
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:55.440
The six aside game, I work closely with the FA and County FAs now recognise six aside, five aside, seven aside, uh, but not in some national international body, really.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:56.000
Gotcha.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:04.400
Yeah, similar with walking football, which is another format I work with, and I think um I listen it helps to control first touch, you know, reactions.
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:14.719
Yes, you know, it's a it's a huge part of developing football, but FIFA and the FA and government bodies see football as a different sport.
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:30.239
Now, our journey from uh European mini football and world mini football federations are to develop that into the Olympics, gotcha, the Olympics by nature are a smaller number of individuals, like an Olympian was always a person on his own, javelin discus, all this sort of stuff.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.519
And then you look at 11 of sides going in there, listen, they're having a side game aren't really interested in the Olympics.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.639
Do you know what I mean?
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.360
Whereas if you can elevate the small side of the game in there, that's a different ball game altogether.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:46.480
And when you historically, you know, 11 of size football is professionals, Olympics is all for amateurs.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:54.480
So there's a nuance there that I think the small side of the game from a five-aside, six-aside format, it's perfect to work with the IRC and develop it internationally.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:54.960
I love that.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.079
And watch this space because I truly believe personally we shouldn't moan about things, find solutions.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:06.639
And I think potentially this shortened form is something that could have massive positive impacts right up to the very elite.
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:16.800
But talking elite, you mentioned there that uh the 11-aside game in the international arena, not that mithered about the Olympics, principally because they have this little tournament called the World Cup, which happened recently.
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.280
Talking refereeing, it's something obviously, again, we've got short memories, haven't we, Martin?
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:31.519
But there was a Fiore, wasn't there, about uh USA playing the Donald Trump card and uh getting a Belligan red card recidio, making him available for a knockout fixture against Belgium, right?
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:34.559
Martin, I know you live and breathe the integrity of the game.
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.199
That's absolutely a core of the ref support mission.
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:41.199
From that perspective, what was your take on this uh controversial matter?
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:49.440
Well, me me me first take on this from a referee perspective is what they did with the referee not allowing him into the country because they thought he was attached to some terrorist organizations.
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.960
You know, that was the first big shock for me.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.400
I was thinking, oh, really?
00:37:52.639 --> 00:38:00.320
Yeah, you really and and so that that's another set subject altogether, but that's backfired on them because he's become a real major profile referee.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:07.199
So, you know, he won a bit of a Willie Wonka golden ticket there by accident, and and rightly so because they you know the guys are top top ref.
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:16.000
Then when we come into what happened with with Trump getting involved in you know an American red card being sort of rescinded, was nothing short of a disgrace.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.400
And I think it it damaged the integrity.
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.360
I was disappointed in many people in in obviously Infantino.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.719
You know, what is he really?
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:26.239
He's a dead man walking in rightly so from what he's done.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.360
Per Luigi Kalina, who was like a god to me.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.519
Absolutely, absolutely he never come out and defended what's going on, really.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:34.639
And I was disappointed in that.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:39.840
He never came out and defended the referee that wasn't allowed in, and he never came out and said about the integrity of the game here.
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.320
All right, listen, that that sort of discipline isn't really forward in the referee's remit.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:49.119
Because it's a bit like you know, a police officer catching someone and they don't talk about what happens after that.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.800
I guess yeah, I get globalised.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:59.039
You know, we we're the ones that that you know give out the the sanctions that required in law, but we're not really partial to what you know the consequences of those transactions are.
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.039
So to me, it was a disgrace not sure.
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:05.199
Listen, President Trump is getting involved in so many things that you know I believe he shouldn't.
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:06.800
And he's just stay away from our game.
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.559
You don't even know what the game's about.
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:13.119
So Vicino gives him this sort of faux piece award, indeed.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.880
You know, while he's getting do you know what I mean?
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:16.719
It was just right from the way it go.
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:25.679
I just thought this is quite possibly going to be the worst World Cup ever dealing with from a moral standpoint, and that's saying something about FIFA, isn't it?
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.760
Hey, but controversy surrounds all sports, and look, we need it, we need the passion, and that's kind of what drives it.
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:39.360
But again, in a minute, we're gonna drill into the fact that let's not forget there is no games without the referees, and they are humans with all that that entails.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:50.480
But kind of appropriate to Martin to have you on uh today because everybody's favorite topic, VAR, and Matt Donahue and Blake uh Antrobus, they're back.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:58.079
They were kind of uh given a few weeks off following the Man City goal that was war earlier on in the season.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.239
Let me ask your takes on VAR.
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.960
It's here to stay, but is it easing pressure on referees or is it just muddying the waters?
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.280
What's your overall VAR perspective?
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.880
Well, listen, the VAR that I'm interested in is violence against referees.
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:12.079
That needs to stop.
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:14.719
That's the paramount VAR, in my opinion, across the world.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.440
Violence against referees needs to be addressed more than it does.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:24.239
And I wish people would moan more about a referee getting their head kicked in than some you know toe being on sides or off sides.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:30.719
Yeah, but VAR currently how it's shaped up is not what football fans, referees, and most stakeholders in the game thought it was going to be.
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:38.239
If you if you remember, VAR from PG M O L point of view, which was then now that now pro ref, they didn't even allow you to go to a screen.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.119
Now, the protocol from FIFA in the beginning was that you go to a screen.
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:45.519
Now, the first time a referee went over to a screen in our game was during an FA Cup game.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:45.920
Right.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.039
Which which people wouldn't really recognise what the score is there.
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.079
The FA Cup's run by the FA, not the PG M O L.
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.280
All referees can referee in in the FA Cup ball, you know, the all-cont referee in the Premier League or football league, etc.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:59.599
I thought that was an incessant development.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.559
That then slowly it got bigger where let's use the screen.
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:04.000
Then it was how do we use the screen?
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.199
What is the screen used for?
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:09.599
So it's always been a very organic subject, VAR, and it still is.
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:22.079
And in fairness to Howard Webb and what he's done, I think I think, yeah, this could be controversial to some fans, but I think he's been a game changer positively for us because he wouldn't they wouldn't allow people to talk about VAR conversations.
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.079
That was Howard Webb's idea, no one else's.
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:28.159
So now we we've elevated that to uh releasing you know conversations showing the game.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.239
Now we have mic'd up in other developments.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:32.079
You know, we didn't have to do this.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.239
Howard Webb did not have to do this.
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:41.679
All right, it it looks a little bit clinical because you know they sort of shape what they're talking about, but he didn't have to do this right back to the mistake.
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:47.760
The bigger mistake that's probably ever been made in VAR was the Louis Diaz goal in Liverpool.
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:55.840
I'm a Liverpool fanborn and bred in Liverpool, but like you know, that was that should have been the absolute earthquake with VAR because that technically cost Liverpool winning the league.
00:41:56.079 --> 00:42:02.400
Absolutely, and it hasn't really, really been sort of and Darren England's you know has got his career got absolutely battered for that.
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:10.320
And then going back to your VAR recently about VAR, you know, getting suspended and and you know, not you know, demoted and all that.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.960
I I always like to discuss this from a football point of view rather than a referee point of view.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:18.480
If a referee makes a mistake, the accountability levels are through the roof.
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.639
Even if it's a throw in wrong that leads to a goal.
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.320
But it's never that same with players.
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.239
You never uh very seldom you wear players costing teams again.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:36.719
You know, I say all the time on Twitter, and my strategy to anyone who follows us on Twitter is that I do exactly what fans do, I become fanatical, radical about Defending a match official.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.599
It's a it's a by proxy of what I what they do, I'm gonna do back.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:55.840
I won't swear, I won't kick a you know a player's head in, but it's absolutely clear that players make more mistakes than match officials in every single game, but they just they want a referee suspended or demoted because you'd get a VAR decision wrong.
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.280
I remember watching Match of the Day once, and I'll talk about it in other podcasts.
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.320
Uh a team lost one nil, and I will name a team, I won't name a player.
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.159
Okay, and a player in the team that lost one nil missed two penalties.
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.239
Now, match of the day, the referee was Lee Mason.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:17.119
Match of the day concentrated on the mistake a referee made because he blew his whistle twice and the ball went in, so he actually called the free people and took the free kick again.
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.280
Now, Gary Renneker, they just they spent uh three minutes eighteen seconds.
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:21.840
Gotcha.
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.079
And um and he really castigated the referee.
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:26.239
He just said oh he was unlucky to miss those penalties.
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:38.320
Now, any anyone who's got a got a stake in in football emotionally or physically will tell you that missing two penalties in a game you lost one nil is a far bigger mistake than a referee Bronos whistle that was all this condemnation.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:44.800
They even finished the match of the day tune with the final whistle, a whistle of a referee, totally absolutely castigating the referee.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:46.079
That's what's wrong in football.
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:51.599
The accountability of a referee, a match of visual mistake, is worth 10 million times more than any player's mistake.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:52.320
That needs to change.
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:52.880
That's the problem.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:59.760
And that kind of narrative feeds into the fans who, of course, consume that and then spew it out across social media.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.679
Yeah, you already mentioned uh social media a bit earlier on in the piece.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:16.239
Just how much has that changed the landscape of the pressure and the abuse that our officials face, both at the very highest level and right down to where it's key, the grassroots, Martin?
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:23.679
It's it's fundamental, and and there's many levels to this, but I've seen a child at a game score a goal, no, no, no older than 11.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:23.840
Right.
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.800
And as he ran away, he kissed his finger like his wedding ring finger.
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:27.840
Where did he learn that?
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:37.840
I've seen children for years doing cruith turns and Aldo Goal celebrations, wearing a collar up like Cantonar and putting Vaseline on the chest like where do they learn that?
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.199
They only learn that from TV.
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:40.480
It's mimicked behavior.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:50.400
So any anyone with a sort of intelligence should think if they're gonna mimic positive behaviour, yeah, they're gonna mimic negative behavior.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:50.880
Of course.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.079
And that doesn't get noticed.
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:58.960
Another thing that really doesn't get noticed is that when someone like Michael Oliver referees Arsenal against Tottenham, he lives in Newcastle.
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:00.559
He ain't gonna bump into these players.
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:08.960
The majority of football referees make decisions, and if they're threatened, abused, or even beat up, they're gonna they're gonna probably bump into them in a supermarket run.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:09.280
Yes.
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:16.320
In the pro with the family, there's many incidences where a referee's gone to a supermarket with his family and someone's spat at him because he sent him off a month ago.
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:17.440
That's never recognized.
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.400
That locality is, and that's the majority of football.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.199
Remember, this is like professional games, one percent of the game.
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:31.280
Yeah, this needs to be recognized that like the results of the consequences of referees getting assaults doesn't just finish at the final whistle, and it's exactly the same as social media.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:38.079
And it's on social media, people take sides, and the next day it's on fire, it's become worse because someone else has got involved in social media.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:41.199
This is a society problem, and and it's no difference in football.
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.119
You know, something like that, and look at that stupid penant, and then they all pile in, they all pile.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:45.760
I do the opposite.
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.920
I I'll go on and say, Wasn't that referee brilliant today?
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:53.440
And you look at it, and so what happens is by proxy, they I'm doing to them what they do every day of the week.
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:59.119
I'm proven look at this, what you're doing, you know, massive, you know, even if the referee is right, yeah, but no chance, yeah.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.599
But he missed a throw in, yeah, but this, yeah, but that.
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:07.519
And then the the greatest thing that I love is that look at his camera view from behind the goal that the referee got that decision one.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.840
Well, is that where you want the referee to referee the game from?
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.079
Absolutely.
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:11.360
That's hilarious.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:12.079
That's a great point.
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.119
Honestly, and I and all these camera views, VO, honestly, good.
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:24.719
I've talked to the owners of Vio that I would love them to have a have a clause saying please be mindful of how you use the footage and what it's used for, there for player development, it's not there for slagging off referees.
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:24.960
Indeed.
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:28.559
And I've said to VO and the VO are out there listening to this, come back to me.
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.800
Wouldn't it be a brilliant, brilliant message?
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:38.480
A responsible message from VO to say, look, please don't use our the art camera and the footage from our devices to abuse and castigate referees.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:39.280
They can't control it.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:41.920
We were the first organization to have a 24-7 hotline.
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:42.480
Love it.
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:48.079
That you know, because and the reason I brought that in is because most referees and most footballers carried out out of office hours.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.840
County FA don't work weekends, they don't work after five o'clock.
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:55.039
Some great county affairs out there, by the way by the way, you do wonderful work.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.920
So that's why I did this 24-7, 365 day.
00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:58.719
Help, help Brian.
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:03.360
We've had calls from referees stuck in changing rooms crying because they've been stuck on it.
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:09.440
They phoned the referee, they found a local referee officer, and he he or she isn't answering because they're probably out refereeing themselves.
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.239
Yes, so it's it's a massive hole that's been there.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:21.280
And and then by the consequences of this or the byproduct was we proved that the referees, the uh FA's figures are incorrect and the abuse of it.
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:31.360
I proved it, I absolutely proved it because more people are coming to me saying I actually got assaulted and I went to the FA and they found him not guilty or not proven when he I've got physical cuts on me.
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:32.880
Yes, so how did he kick my head in?
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.719
But he had more witnesses say that didn't happen.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:43.679
So so they don't report it because that might have happened, or they're too scared to report it, like I mentioned earlier, because the people who kicked their head in is uh isn't on the school run.
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.559
That's it, literally he's next door neighbor, maybe as close as that.
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:50.400
Absolutely, and then and then the the FA will always and listen, don't get this wrong.
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.159
The FA have done some game changes.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.559
So we pushed for the body cam pilot for four years.
00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:11.199
I I myself lobbied for lobby the FA, and they weren't interested in the body cam pilots, and then there's a change of individuals at the referee's departments who were stopping it because they just went into it, and then now the FA were the first governing body in the world to do an F a pilot for body cam pilots.
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.800
Now that comes directly from me lobbying them, but fair play now all parties there.
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.920
Credit again to yourself and all the awesome work at Ref Support.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:27.039
I think you guys are an absolute force of good, but fair play because again, it's important when we wish to uh critique, as we do, the FA, etc.
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:31.440
But again, give praise where it's due to react to listen there and take on board.
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:31.840
I like that.
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:32.960
Yeah, there've been game changes.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:33.519
Absolutely game.
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:38.559
Listen, I threw stones at Wembley Stadium, smashing windows for many years for the doors to open, right?
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:54.559
Now when they they actually can consult with me now, there's some brilliant people at the FA who consult me for the changes that even as recent as a couple of months ago, there was a I noticed that when a referee gets assaulted and that player gets banned for five years, ten years, whatever.
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.000
The FA were not obliged to tell the referee that that player is back playing.
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:04.400
So that player going back to the locality of football, he could go to do a team and that player that kicked their heads in or assaulted them.
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.880
And I always over-emotionalise it for this reason.
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:08.480
He then walks on the pitch, and there he is.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.000
I'm there's the player who kicked his head in.
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:11.840
The FA weren't obliged to tell the referee.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:12.880
Can you believe this?
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:16.800
But any other walk of life, in any other walk of life, that's gotta be transparent.
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:23.119
If you're going to a job with uh an ex-offender, whatever you gotta make these things clear.
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:26.000
And transparent is only can you imagine?
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.519
I can only begin to compute the anxiety that must cause when you look across the page.
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.840
You're there to do your role, you're there to make the game live.
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:35.280
Without the refs, we got nothing.
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:38.239
And there he is, guy who's just bat nearly a month ago, or whatever.
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:38.960
It must be ridiculous.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:40.800
And it wasn't there.
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:41.840
I couldn't believe it.
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:42.719
And that we're happening.
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.079
There was a referee called Satyan Toki, Google his name, uh, Satyan Tokyo.
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:52.239
The video was sent to me, and that's another thing we did that the FA will always say, Top videos out, it compromises the case, blah blah blah.
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:59.840
And the referee association always obliges because the referee association get funding off these county FAs and the FA and the PGM, so they stay stun.
00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:01.039
That's another story from the day.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:01.840
The referee association.
00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:03.280
I put that video out.
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:09.199
I listen, I put that video out of Satyan Toki getting punched three times and it went by 16 million views.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.760
Big, big, big um journalists put it out.
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:12.000
Yes.
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.920
But that that player who on video punched the referee three times, cut his eye.
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:18.559
He got a ban by the FA for 10 years.
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:22.480
The the police didn't get involved because the police say, Oh, he's a teacher, which he wasn't.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.239
He was a coach who went into schools.
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:26.800
So, therefore, we're going to give him a caution.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:31.599
When the caution was issued by the Met Police, that player appealed the ban from 10 years, it got reduced to five.
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:37.599
So the process of mitigating the uh sanction by the FA should not oversucceed the laws of this land.
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.400
It should be the other way down.
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:39.360
So that's another subject.
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:44.400
Anyway, so then I came up with a memory on me on my LinkedIn that that was five years ago.
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.239
I thought, ooh, is he back playing?
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:51.280
So I phoned you sat yum and said, because they're keeping such all the referees who approach us.
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.920
And I said, Does the FA tell you if anyone's back?
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.320
He went, No.
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.599
I said, Do you know this player's back playing?
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:56.079
He went, No.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:02.079
So we wrote to the FA, guy called Alan Darfrey for the FA at Wembley, top, top lads, really forward thinking, positive.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:04.880
He's leads on discipline and um and regulation.
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.199
He said, Actually, Martin, no, that's not in place.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:09.360
He said, Yeah, but you know, referees might not want to know.
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:10.480
I said, Well, I don't care about that.
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:11.280
At least offer them.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:12.079
Do you want to know?
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:14.960
And then I said, Oh no, really, check in with these referees.
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:15.599
How are you?
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.920
Six months later, one one year later.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.639
How are you?
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:20.079
Are you getting some help?
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:21.199
None of that was in place.
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.840
It is now, purely because of my conversation with the FA.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:27.440
So we're already having real-time changes here with as a charity.
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.920
And we did the same, believe it or not, safeguarding a referee who's under the age of 18.
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:40.000
If he or she sends someone off, a coach, that coach appeals, that child referee had to appear in a room with that bloke and he can question them.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:40.639
Can you believe that?
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:44.960
And that's a clear safety as a breach against you know what's funny.
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:46.559
I I said no, I can't believe it.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:53.039
But based on everything that you've just communicated really well here, sadly, I actually can, if that makes sense.
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.599
It should it shouldn't be the case, it should be that just won't ever happen, surely.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.039
But it is the case, Martin.
00:51:59.119 --> 00:51:59.760
This is mental.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:00.960
It's mad mental, innit?
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:04.320
And so we approached the FA and that, then a couple of years later, it's still not quite there.
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:05.840
It's another conversation I'm having.
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:10.960
But like now, if you're under the age of 16, you don't have to appear at these hearings, which is brilliant.
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.480
If they're under the age of 18, you can do it by Teams call or Zoom call.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.800
Because let's be honest with the FA, when those regulations were there, Zoom wasn't there, teams call wasn't there.
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.920
So now so now they're they've they've moved the times in fairness to them.
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:32.159
But and these are the changes that I always say the FA's brought in real positive, they don't get recognized for, but there's other stakeholders in the game that that metaphorically and physically stand on the sidelines and do nothing.
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:39.840
If you go to the top of the game, yeah, the League Managers Association, they never come out and say what Yeagen Klopp just got stuck into a referee's face and give it loads.
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.039
Warnick, Panzerman character Warnick, always having a go at referees.
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.079
Where's the LMA's stance on that sort of behavior?
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:47.119
Nothing, zero, nada.
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:50.480
I would suggest follow the money trail, people.
00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:57.840
But uh exactly the PFA, one of the most powerful unions in the world, the PFA, they get five percent of all the TV deals, a lot of money.
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.960
Where do they do when you know the canyoge does that to a referee and pushes them over?
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:06.800
Where do they come out and say, so these PFA, the LMA, they need to step up more.
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:15.599
The FA have done an awful lot to change the game, and they don't get the credit they deserve with the PFA and the LMA metaphorically and physically sit on the sidelines and do nothing.
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:18.079
Mine, I love all that, and I truly love what you guys are all about.
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.639
Ref support, tell us more, tell us where we can find information.
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:22.480
Remind us again about that important hotline.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:29.760
Yeah, so we got the hotline which is 0300, double one, 1966, and it's 96 did the World Cup, that's why I did it so people can remember it.
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.400
Um, most of our information now comes through our Twitter account, actually, which is at ref support uk.
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:39.599
It's got, I think up until recently, it had more followers than the ref the FA's own referee accounts.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:40.639
Well, tell us your story.
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:46.159
Listen, because we tell we talk both sides, we don't place the referees, but we also actually that ref is wrong and it's why.
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.480
And we like to see a bit of a considered approach.
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:59.519
I do intentionally because disdain, because I'll I'll just defend the referee even if I know he's wrong, because I'm proven, you know, that I'll someone say that's never a red, and he got appealed and it got rescinded.
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.880
I go, Yeah, but how many how many sides is your player, you know, miss a pass, miss a shot?
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.159
Yeah, that's not the point.
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:05.280
He knows it is the point.
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:08.559
What's good for the goose is good for the gander people.
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:10.400
It really is that it's missed.
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:22.400
And I think uh our websites at refsupport co.uk is is people contact us through that, and it's it's sadly really because we get we get military veterans, we get soldiers running us and it plays on the minds at night, 10 o'clock at night.
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:34.239
It's not unusual for me to get a call at night where a trained killer, like a soldier, a padder, all those people from our wonderful armed forces go out and referee and they get called all the names of the summer, they don't react.
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:38.480
But they're saying if this was in a pub or of a game of pool, there'll be there'll be a different outcome here.
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:47.840
Those players would not say that to me in a pub, they would not say that to me, you know, face to face outside the realms of because they're guarding the standards and they believe in what they're trying to do as a referee.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.079
And I say it all the time, I say all the time.
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.159
Where they go home, they think, you know what, my instinct was to kick as head in, but I want to keep the model high ground.
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:56.559
I want to I don't want to do that, but they know they could.
00:54:56.719 --> 00:55:05.599
So when you look at what referee abuse is, it's something that happens in a game that is normally delivered by cowards, by cowards, parents on the sideline.
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:08.320
Now there's changes now about what the FA are doing there, you know.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:09.920
Youth football's the worst.
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:20.800
You know, the game is that bad, that bad, that the FA brought out a scheme to say we're gonna give under 18 referees yellow armbands to wear if they want to identify them as a child to stop them getting abused.
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:27.440
Now, that is an absolute disgrace that we have got to identify children to protect them from abuse from adults.
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:28.400
That's a disgrace.
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:32.480
Now, fair play to the FA, this all went wrong in the beginning because the FA said, Oh, you can do what you want.
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:37.920
Some county FAs wore purple socks, some wore purple shirts, some wore green shirts, some wore handbands.
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.920
And I said, in itself, that's a disgrace.
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:45.360
I wrote to the FA and said, You need to control this and have one way of identifying a child's referee if you're going to do this.
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:48.800
Now the FA give out all the county FA's free handbands with respect on it.
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:50.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:52.000
Now that is an absolute disgrace.
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:58.400
The people in our game who abuse referees have brought this to a level where we've got to go actually don't abuse them, is it or here?
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.079
They're a child, just you know, don't do that.
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.840
And that's disgraceful, isn't it?
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:02.559
And that's now.
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:04.239
That's now that's happening tomorrow.
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:06.559
There'll be young referees wearing a yellow armband.
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:11.519
What the FA did do, it was really intelligent, they mitigate the fact that it's got a got a yellow armband on.
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:14.000
So they say you knew as a child, so that's mitigating.
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:14.800
It's a serious offense.
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.440
What I'm discussing with the FA currently is there's a thing called Laddo.
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:17.760
Okay.
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:21.199
MASH LADO is the local designated safety officer.
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:30.639
So there's any forms of jet child abuse, and this comes from the horrific case of uh BBP, where there's loads of these organizations knew what was going on, but they weren't talking to each other.
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:37.039
Right, they brought in this thing called MASH, which is a multi-agency safeguarding hub where whenever they happens, they all get sold.
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:43.280
So if someone who gets told from this department, you know, social services that that this has happened, we reckon this is happening to this child.
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:47.920
They automatically tell the others, and then the others go actually this has happened to us, and then and you build a picture quicker.
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:53.440
I'm now saying that the FA should make it obligatory for the DSL designated safeguarding leads of a club.
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:57.679
If they see a child referee getting threatened and abused, go to Lado, don't go to the FA.
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.760
Yeah, go to the FA and watch the watch a change because this is real-time consequences.
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:03.440
These can take your job away.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:04.480
These, you know, do you know what I mean?
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:06.000
These are sending you to jail, you know.
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:12.400
So these these sorts of conduits they are already in place, but they've never been used in a football of violence to protect children.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:14.320
Well, look, thank you for educating me about this.
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.079
Thank you for educating all our listeners about all this.
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:16.880
This is so crucial.
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.920
Matters, I would just say, look, guys, you know, they're human beings again.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:27.519
Without the referee, there is no sport, whether that's a World Cup final or the whether that's your lad playing under age, it doesn't matter, it's the same principle.
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:28.880
No referee, no game.
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:35.920
So just take a breath, think, and imagine what how would I feel if that was my lad about to get an abuse?
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:39.599
How would I feel if that was my cousin about to get a load of stick?
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.000
You think slightly differently, I'd like to think.
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:45.039
Martin, I could talk to you about these important topics all day.
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:46.239
You've been phenomenal.
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:51.119
But just before I let you go, is there anything you'd like to uh just address, highlight, or bring to our attention at all?
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:52.800
Yeah, I want to touch on something you just said.
00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:57.599
I've seen games where the parents is having absolute go at a referee.
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.000
Referee, he just kicked my lad.
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:01.519
Yeah, he's just kicked my daughter.
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:03.199
You're a disgrace, you're a disgrace.
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:06.800
He's protecting the child, but he's doing exactly the same to a child.
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:07.440
Absolutely.
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:08.800
That's a child's referee.
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:09.199
Yeah, absolutely.
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:15.760
So they don't see it, they just see their little potential way mooney, and then they they don't care the consequences of what they're saying.
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:17.360
So look, look at what you're doing.
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:22.480
Remember, this is this is not only a human, it's also a child in the football with the biggest problem.
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:23.360
It's a child.
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:28.639
You're they see this like black kit, well, you yellow kit, whatever you wear now, and your fair game.
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:30.400
It's like a cloth of invisibility.
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:37.119
They put that referee kit and they don't care, they'll they'll protect rightly so homophobic abuse, racial abuse, anti-semitism.
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.320
Oh, but referee abuse, didn't he haven't been able to have a go with him?
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:42.000
Oh, yeah, that doesn't matter.
00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:42.719
You see what I mean?
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:44.159
I'm tying back to the body cam pilot.
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:50.400
The body cam pilot was brought in to protect referees, but it also prevents homophobic abuse, anti-semitism, racial abuse.
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:51.360
Just do you know what I mean?
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:57.199
So when I opened it up to say, actually, you know, a body camera protects there are all forms of abuse and it's a training aid.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:01.599
Some referees will think, Oh, I didn't know I said that, I didn't know I talk like that.
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:03.039
I I was really condescending.
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:04.079
So everyone learns from it.
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.480
So to me, there's there's no losers on the body cam pilots.
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:16.000
And I just want to say the ref the referees' departments of the FA and the discipline departments and regulation are doing some wonderful work that really need to be praised, and it's time for other people to stand up.
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:16.880
Love that, Martin.
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.320
And I'm very grateful for your time.
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:30.320
And I love the fact that you there at Ref Support are massively stood up and are providing a powerful voice for often those who feel that they do not have a voice in this uh challenging social media-driven era.
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:31.760
It's been a notes of joy.
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:32.320
Thank you again.
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:39.920
I want to take a moment in closing to wish you and yours and the whole team there at Ref Support every continued renewed success, joy, and happiness.
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:40.400
Thanks again.
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:41.119
Thanks, Mace.
00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:43.440
Yeah, awesome to hear there from Martin Cassidy.
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.519
Uh, again, if that resonates with you, if you're a young referee, we'd love to hear from you.
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:48.320
Do get involved.
00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:53.760
You can find us across social media, or of course, you can email to Tony and Steve's worldresport at gmail.com.
00:59:53.920 --> 01:00:02.880
But all of that, of course, pertains to another thing that we're a big champion of, and that is the important relationship between sport and mental health, mental well-being.
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:11.039
And often we forget that sporting impacts heavily on the mental health of our stars, the ones that we adore, our heroes.
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:13.599
And dad, I know there was some big news on that this week.
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:31.840
Yes, and you know, I would reiterate what you just said, Tony, that the impact on sport, the pressure that people are under, and referees, coaches, anybody involved in sport, there is a mental pressure, and it does sometimes get to a level where it it gives a breakdown to certain people.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:40.880
And I've got to mention Mark Allen, the snooker player this way, shows the fragility of sportsmen can exist at the top line level at any sport.
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:46.320
And I would say well done to the snooker authorities for supporting him and to the general public.
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:48.559
And Mark, we wish you well.
01:00:48.719 --> 01:01:01.119
Um, we understand your difficulties, and we will hope that you will fight your way through this as do many other sports uh personalities who struggle with the mental health.
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:04.639
It is uh a subject close to the heart of this podcast.
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:07.119
We have covered it right from the off.
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:14.559
And over the coming months, there will be something we will be doing uh to support mental health, but we'll go into that at a later date.
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:16.239
Mark Allen, we wish you well.
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:21.280
Absolutely reiterate that and want to say credit to him for uh being so open about this.
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:29.039
It is important that this becomes something that was not something that we're ashamed of, that we have open and honest conversations, and Mark Allen leading the way in that regard.
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:34.880
As you say, we wish you every renewed happiness as you fight your way through tough times.
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:40.159
But now it's tough for me to say it's a it's a wrap for this very episode.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.320
It's always a joy to speak sport with you.
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:44.800
Remember, it's your podcast every bit as much as it is ours.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.840
Do continue to keep involved as you guys do so well.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:56.880
But wherever you've been engaging with us, whether that's at the gym, powering out those PBs, doing those pesky chores that don't do themselves or wherever it might be.
01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:58.400
Thank you for being along for the ride.
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.719
Make sure you're with us each and every Tuesday or any time you choose to access and download.
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:06.639
But for here, for now, it's a big all the best.
