Todd: Abram kept moving, steadily making his way south to the Negev. And that was what stuck with me was that Abraham kept moving. You
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: know, when you go into to to something that God calls you to, one of the things you don't expect is the famine. That's gonna hit 'cause you're in God's will. Why why you do why am I going to where you want me to go? And then there's a famine. And it was the famine that drove him to like we like to
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Sure.
Todd: expect that that it's not gonna be as hard as it is. It's always harder. It's always more challenging. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, if it's God's will it's gonna be a smooth trip, right? I know. But it's what we think Right. But
Todd: But that's not ever the experience. Like you're more likely to think, My God, everything's gotten impossible. I must be in the middle of God's will. Do you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: our expectations when we w head out on a journey is exactly that that that it'll be sweet. Everything's gonna be easy, yep.
Todd: Yeah. Okay, well I'm gonna obey and then everything's gonna be easy. No it's way wor it's so much harder.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, so he kept moving. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: He kept moving. I think that's important because sometimes that's all God's calling us to is just keep moving in the direction that He's called us. Through
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: it doesn't the famine doesn't make sense, but we keep going. It doesn't make sense we got to go to Egypt. It doesn't make sense that I gotta let Sarah go live in the palace, but I keep going and I keep moving because God has called me on this journey, on this adventure of a lifetime. And the one thing I gotta go do is just keep moving forward.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Not get stuck in the past, not get stopped by the obstacles, not get stuck in the detours, just keep going. You know what I mean? And along
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: the way, build altars everywhere you stop. He's leaving, he's leaving the message of God. Like, because everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he goes, we're not talking about altars that can be easily knocked down. People know that someone was here worshiping. You know what I mean? He's leaving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: something behind that says, this is. He's a message about reality and a message about God. Everywhere he goes, he's shining that light.
Yo, it's Carrie: But Chad, you know, you pointed this out though,
Todd: Sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: and and actually this highlights two such important things and that is worship and obedience. In talent.
Todd: Welcome everyone to Beards with Jesus, Todd's World. Carrie's with me. I'm Todd. How's it going, Carrie? Great.
Yo, it's Carrie: Great. Happy happy Beers with Jesus Day.
Todd: Yeah, and this is our week on with the Wildly Opinion Aid News Hour. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: we do every week Beers with Jesus. So we we're shining the light of the gospel truth out there every week. And then bi weekly every other
Yo, it's Carrie: We try.
Todd: week we do the Wildly Opinion Aid News Hour, which we did this week. So it dropped yesterday. Check it out.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: That's our politics, news, humor. Just kind of fun,
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: you know.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's pretty humorous, we think so.
Todd: We talked a lot about the W NBA this week, so you know. Who'd ever thought anybody would say that in the world? They talked a lot about the WNBA.
Yo, it's Carrie: The hullabaloo. The hullabaloo. Which I had to explain. and when I was asked by my boys what is a hullabaloo? I was like, Well, Todd uses the word kerfuffle and they're like, Well what's that? I'm like I'm like, man, I don't even know where to begin.
Todd: That's why the young the younger generation needs this show.
Yo, it's Carrie: So we don't lose these important Yeah. Okay.
Todd: We're bringing back, we're widening their vocabulary. So and by the way, thank you everyone for tuning in. we we love doing this. It has been great. you know, I got some comments
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Thanks for being here.
Todd: last week on beers. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: did you on our special edition?
Todd: On one in particular on YouTube said
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: and and you know what? We my friend Pastor Darrow, who didn't join us last week because he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: didn't have anything significant add. Found something significant to add later in a text with me. And it was the same comment,
Yo, it's Carrie: did he? Did he
Todd: it was the same as comment on YouTube, which is why I'm saying it, which is the
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: guy on YouTube said, you know, this didn't really happen. You know, we're talking about whether whether these opening stories are kind of more of a mythology, kind of a meta-narrative or not. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: this guy was on board with that. And or just wanted to make sure we knew this didn't really happen. It's not literal. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. We we sounded convinced and he didn't
Todd: Well, I am convinced of it, but to which my answer on on the YouTube comment was the same as it is in general, which is I'm not sure what difference it makes. In other words, when when
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: we're talking about the story of like the sower and the seeds of Jesus, we
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: don't assume that that sower was a historical person. It's just it's like Aesop's Fables, right? It's a story. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. It was to teach a lesson.
Todd: you're using you're you're engaging with the story in the same way and with the characters in the same way. To learn the same lessons, so
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I'm just not sure what difference it makes. From to us, I mean, other than
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: other than I did point this out, I didn't get into this in into the comments and stuff, but I did point this out to Pastor Daryl, and to which he never had a good response. But or I didn't have I maybe didn't forgot about it. You know how texting is. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: anyway, but if you look at Hebrews 11 in the Hall of Faith, it specifically
Yo, it's Carrie: Let's hear it. Yes. that's right.
Todd: references Abel, Enoch, and Noah. So what Pastor
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Daryl I said, so when do you think things really started actually happening? Like when one of the when's historical? And he said
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. If the Yeah.
Todd: with the call of Abraham, which that's where we're at today, guys. So I think
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. But if in but if those people are mentioned in the hall of faith in Hebrews, it does speak to some some level of accuracy, don't you think?
Todd: I think it I think the genealogy I think the whole thing doesn't it doesn't sound mythological.
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, the whole genealogy. Yeah, I don't think if it were just a if it were a parable, it wouldn't start with two pages of genealogy. Sure.
Todd: I could live with it if it was. Like if we get there and God's like those were those were kind of like parables and and foundational stories, but you don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure.
Todd: get there's no Adam to meet. I mean, it'd be strange to me given some of the things that Jesus said and Paul said, but I'd be like, okay, that's fine. It doesn't doesn't necessarily change all that much. But when you got
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Todd: like Hebrews 11, and it talks about by faith Abel did this, and by faith Enoch walked with God, and by faith Noah became intimate with God. And then In Hebrews 11, 13, it says each one of these people of faith died not having yet in hand what was promised, but still believing. How did they do it? They saw it way off in the distance, waved
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: their greeting, and accepted the fact that they were transients in this world. We'll get back to this passage later on. People
Yo, it's Carrie: Cool.
Todd: who live this way make it plain that they are looking for their true home. If they were homesick for the old country, they could have gone back anytime they wanted. But they were after a far better country than that. Heaven country. You can see why God is so proud of them and has a city waiting for them. So at the beginning he says each one, and then he says God has a city waiting for And I think that's not how God would talk about Zeus. I don't think. I
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: just it doesn't make sense to me.
Yo, it's Carrie: It doesn't. Well, and right before Jesus tells the story of the the sower and the seeds, he doesn't give the sowers genealogy.
Todd: Right. I I don't I I think I think it's historical. It reads historical to me.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's it's a great point, Todd. Sure. Mm-hmm.
Todd: I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't
Yo, it's Carrie: Me neither.
Todd: shake my faith. And if people out there like Pastor Daryl believe that it's more mythological
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: than a meta narrative, that's perfectly fine. Like we still are we still love the same Jesus.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. I'd like his answer to those points though.
Todd: You know what I mean? Like we're all on board. We just happen to disagree on this point. But again, I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: know that It makes a whole lot of difference. At least in how we approach And Beers of Jesus. I don't I don't know how I would do it any different. You know what I mean? Like you you
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: you get into a story the same way is kind of my point. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: but anyway, that was out there and that was an interesting so I don't remember the person on YouTube that made the comment. But thanks for commenting and thanks for listening. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, thank you. And someone also put out there something about landing on the moon, right?
Todd: Yeah, I didn't understand that exactly. Other than I think they were trying to make the main the same point, which was that this Tower of Babel thing
Yo, it's Carrie: I think we were comparing Yeah.
Todd: didn't really happen. And listen, I it it's a reasonable it's reasonable if people want to take that position.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I I would not take it I was reminded of this when we talked about Dr. Hobbit Fauci on news yesterday. I wouldn't personally take it because I felt like the science was telling a different story because I think the science has been proven relatively not trustworthy. But
Yo, it's Carrie: The so it depends on the source.
Todd: but if you if if you feel like for whatever reason reading the the Bible that that that makes more sense as as kind of the underlying myths, I don't have a problem with that. It's fine. We still talk about the same way. So and so anyway that was all. But now I think with the call of Abram Chapter twelve where we're gonna start. I think everybody's on page that this is historical. You pretty much trace the Jews. The Jews all trace their lineage back to Abraham. Everybody's
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay.
Todd: pretty much on board that Abraham was a real dude. So I think from here on out that the story's biblical. Other than there's still some people probably who think that miracles and like Jonah and the whale and things like that didn't happen. They were more meta narratives too, or whatever. Some of the more
Yo, it's Carrie: So for
Todd: what would you say, fantastic stuff in the Bible. I d I don't know.
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Yes. The more fantastic stories.
Todd: Party near the Red Sea, they'll try to be like, the tide was out. No. That changes the story a little.
Yo, it's Carrie: Which is very different. If you've ever seen the tide going out. Yeah. But you know. and for those who don't know, because we do just we have this show here for people who maybe haven't spent a lot of time in the Bible. Abram, who we're talking about today, becomes Abraham. He's renamed. This is the same person, right?
Todd: Yeah. Yeah, and you know, guys, I'm gonna apologize on the front end because I've been my my good buddy Will's been over and we've been going back this morning before we recorded this, we spent a lot of the morning we were talking about this passage and bouncing things back and forth, bouncing
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: some things off grok. When I say that I mostly like I have some ideas that The Bible never says certain things and I
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: like to run it by grok for a quick research on the whole Bible. And then I'm usually I'm right, yeah, the Bible doesn't say that. Or sometimes it does. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Is is there anything I'm not thinking of?
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: but I have it's not like it's really given me any new ideas. Do you know what I mean? It's mostly I'm just it's a little faster
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. I hope not.
Todd: way of researching than than other things.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: But but I constantly the entire time was mixing up Abraham and Abram.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: Because I because he God changes his name to Abraham, and then for the entire rest of the Bible, he's referred to as Abraham. But for these early chapters,
Yo, it's Carrie: In the rest of history he's referred to as Abraham. So
Todd: if I mix them up, Abraham and Abram are the same person. I know. Okay. All right, we're gonna
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Is this wife's name different also?
Todd: Sarai and Sarah, but it it is the same. She her name wasn't changed, I don't think, really. I think it's it's a difference. I'm not really sure, honestly,
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. She becomes Sarah. Okay. It's just transl is it a translation thing? I meant to look that up, I just remembered it. Okay.
Todd: about that.
Yo, it's Carrie: So save people.
Todd: Anyway, I'm gonna start back
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: in eleven just a little where it says the family tree of terror. It's
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: eleven twenty-seven.
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: And then we're gonna roll right through twelve.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: And we read the message, guys, because the message is the best. I like his most narrative. I think Eugene Peterson did a great job on it. And for people who don't think you should use the message as a study bible. Well, I think you're crazy. But anyway, whatever works, really, whatever
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Okay.
Todd: translation of the Bible you're willing to read, that's the one that you like, that works. I think God
Yo, it's Carrie: Go for it.
Todd: the Holy Spirit will work through any of them. So
Yo, it's Carrie: True. That's very true.
Todd: but we read the message. I like the way it reads, whole thing. So, anyway, the family tree of Terah. This is the story of Tera. Terah had Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran had Lot. Haran died before his father. Terah, in the country of his family, Ur of the Chaldes. Or Chaldis, whatever. Abram and Nahor each got married. Abram's wife was Sarai. Nahor's wife was Milkah, the daughter of his brother Haran. Haron had two daughters, Milka and Iscah. Sarai was Baron. She had no children. Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot, and Sarai his daughter-in-law. his son Abram's wife, and set out with them from Ur of the Chaldees for the land of Canaan. But when they got as far as Haran, they settled down there. Terran Terah lived two hundred and five years. He died in Haran. Now CHAPTER twelve Abram and Sarai God told Abram, Leave your country, your family, and your father's home for a land that I will show you. I'll make you a great nation, and bless you. I'll make you famous. You'll be a blessing. I'll bless those who bless you. Those who curse you I'll curse. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you. So Abram left just as God said, and Lot left with him. Abram was seventy five years old when he left Haran. Abram took his wife Sarai and his nephew Lot with him, along with all the possessions and people they had gotten in Haran. And set out for the land of Canaan and arrived safe and sound. Abram passed through the country as far as Shechem and the Oak of Morah. At that time the Canaanites occupied the land. God appeared to Abram and said, I will give this land to your children. Abram built an altar at the place God had appeared to him. He moved on from there to the hill country east of Bethel, and pitched his tent between Bethel to the west and Ai to the east. He built an altar there and prayed to God. Abram kept moving, steadily making his way south to the Negev. Then a famine came to the land. Abram went down to Egypt to live. It was a hard famine. As he drew near Egypt, he said to his wife, Sarai, Look, we both know you're a beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they're going to say, Aha, that's his wife, and kill me. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: they'll let you live. Do me a favor, tell them you're my sister. Because of you they'll welcome me and let me live. When Abram arrived in Egypt, the Egyptians took one look and saw that his wife was stunningly beautiful. Pharaoh's princes raved over her to Pharaoh. She was taken to live with Pharaoh.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: Because of her, Abraham got along very well and Abraham Abram was right as a boy. He
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: he accumulated sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, men and women servants, and camels. But God hit Pharaoh hard because of Abram's wife Sarai. Everybody in the palace got seriously sick. Pharaoh called for Abram. What's this that you've done to me? Why didn't you tell me that she's your wife? Why did you say she's my sister? So that I'd take her back, take her as my wife. Here's your wife back. Take her and get out. Pharaoh ordered his men to get Abram out of the country. They sent him and his wife and everything he owned on their way.
Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm.
Todd: There it is.
Yo, it's Carrie: Good job.
Todd: What do you think, Gary? You n did you know this story or no? I have an idea.
Yo, it's Carrie: I don't even know where I didn't I I vaguely remembered it. I I didn't remember
Todd: Words by the way, Beers of Jesus. Cheers everyone. Cheers to Abram and Sarai.
Yo, it's Carrie: What cheers Well cheer cheers to poor Sarah because well both of both of them
Todd: Leaving comfort and home and family.
Yo, it's Carrie: I know. yeah, I I remember I remember this story. I remember them being told t to go. I didn't remember that Sarah has to lie about who she is and that she then kinda gets scooped up by the royalty there. That's pretty awful. I mean they're in survival mode,
Todd: Mm-hmm. You know what's interesting.
Yo, it's Carrie: but that's what that's terrible.
Todd: We're going to see this twice. Well, we're actually going to see it three times. We're going to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: see it twice with Abram, once with Abraham, once with Abraham, same person. And then I think I don't remember it's the same. It might not be Egypt again. It might be a different place. And then with Isaac, who is Abraham's Abraham's son, Abraham and Sarah's son, the promise, you know,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right?
Todd: does the exact same thing with Rebecca, his wife. Egg I mean nearly exactly. So we see this happen
Yo, it's Carrie: Really? Okay.
Todd: three times. What I think is interesting about it, and this this is a lot of what Will and I were talking about.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: Because Will and I grew up we're Will's my best friend, we're childhood friends. We grew up church together and went to college together. Anyway, we had a lot of the same life experiences is my point. So we've heard a lot of preachers and a lot of a lot of different people talk about this passage and talk about how
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: it was wrong for Abraham to lie. It was kind of a lack of faith on on his part, but God blessed him anyway. And and
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: I would like to say that that it's just not presented that way. It's not presented that way anywhere in the Bible. God's in fact The only person who's who who walks away blessed out of this is Abraham. He's
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: blessed while it's happening and when he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: leaves, and the only people cursed were the people who tried to take his wife.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: It's just not presented like God's upset that Abraham lied.
Yo, it's Carrie: No, no it is definitely isn't. I feel like Yeah.
Todd: There's a few other circumstances like that. The when Moses was born a as a baby, at the time
Yo, it's Carrie: right.
Todd: at the time Pharaoh was had had issued a decree that all the male infants born to Hebrew to the Hebrew slaves should be killed, drowned in the Nile
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: River or whatever. And so when they came in, the Egyptian midwives lied to Pharaoh and said, these they these women they they get there, we don't get there in time, they have the babies too fast and this, that, and the other. And so they hit
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they and that's pres
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: and then God blessed them after that. Rahab
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: the harlot did the same thing. In fact, she made it into the line of Christ. It says
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: right in Matthew, in the line of Christ, Rahab the harlot is one of his ancestors. And she was in Jericho when Joshua and the Egyptians are finally going in and they're taking the promised land of Canaan. And they
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: remember they march around Jericho seven times, and the walls come tumbling down. There's a Sunday school song about that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Yes.
Todd: And it Before that, they sent a couple spies in to scout out Jericho. Rahab was Rahab the harlot. They went to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: her house. The soldiers from the king came looking for these spies and she lied to them and said they'd gotten away a different way. And again, God only blesses her for that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: So I don't think and see, Will and I were talking about how we grew up in in
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: faith traditions that everything was so it was so important to have everything boxed up that this you couldn't lie and have it be okay. And so they'd work their way into all kinds of circles to get to why why you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Gotcha. I mean it's it's clear from these examples that I'm not trying to say I understand God's mind, but it's clear from these examples that these lies were used to protect special people, holy people for whom God had a purpose. So I mean that's what I felt before you gave the other examples. Sarah and Abraham, Abram were obviously special to God.
Todd: Yeah, he's gonna
Yo, it's Carrie: they have a purpose, he's going to protect them and
Todd: The Messiah is going to come through Abraham. He's going to be a blessing to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: to all. That's when I'm going to make you a blessing. You're going to be famous.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: All the families of the earth are going to be blessed through you. He's talking about Jesus, because Jesus comes through the line of Abraham, and that's how he's going
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to ri that's the entire thing.
Yo, it's Carrie: thing I was trying to figure out is how does the Pharaoh come to realize that this you know, these is it the plague that the plague is a result of this. I'm trying to figure out it's skimmed over and I'm really curious. Mm-hmm.
Todd: You know, in the in the next in the next story where it happens with Abraham, God appears to whoever the king is in a dream. And he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Todd: says, Don't touch that man's wife or I'll kill you. That makes me think that he did that they didn't he didn't get far enough
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: that to get the goods on Sarah. Yeah, I I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, good.
Todd: in other words, however long she'd probably put in the harem, probably getting but but he was gonna take her. Like that was the whole point.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. As a wife,
Todd: I just don't believe
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah.
Todd: he did based on the next story. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: you you guys can think what you want once we get there. But b
Yo, it's Carrie: All right. Thank you, Todd. I like that version.
Todd: because
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: I and so I just don't I don't think that he did, but I mean it could be that God appeared to him, but but at some point this happened, it's comparable a little bit to what happened with with Saul went to Saul the first king of Israel, went to battle with the Philistines, had and and they were losing. The Israelites were losing the
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: battle, and he had the Ark of the Covenant, you know. Readers of the Lost Ark, the famous Ark of the Covenant that
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Right.
Todd: they carried around from Moses and everything, had the pieces of the Ten Commandments and stuff in it. of the tablets, whatever. They had
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: that brought out to battle thinking that this'll help us. The Philistines end up completely destroying the Israelites in battle, and they take the Ark of the Covenant and they take
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: it back to whatever the towns were that are in Philistia, the Philistines' lands.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they put the Ark of the Covenant next to their god Dagon in the in the temple there. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: all the all of the people in the king's household start getting ulcers and sick and tumors and all kinds of things.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they end up sending the ark back on a they have their people come in and they're like, How do we get rid of this thing?
Yo, it's Carrie: Wow.
Todd: So somehow there's the same it's like it's like There's certain things like you're saying, I think Sarah was was one. She was gonna have the seed. Her only son well, her yeah, her only son was gonna be Isaac, and
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he was gonna be the promise, he was gonna the Messiah was gonna come through that. And God, it doesn't matter what happened, God wasn't gonna let that part be messed with. Period. You know what I mean? And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: God's anger seems to be a lot more for the people that live in a culture where they'll just take what they want and kill the guy who's married to her than the guy who for self preservation and i is they they have to come up with a different story. Does that make sense?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Completely.
Todd: I kind of compared it what Will and I came up with is it's kind of like the difference between thou shalt not murder and
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: killing. Killing in war, killing and for other reasons, state sponsored, whatever. And I think
Yo, it's Carrie: gotcha. Right.
Todd: that's true with the lying thing. In other words,
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: if you're lying, if you're bearing false witness, if you're lying for personal gain or to save
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: your own skin or do this or that or that or the other. Then yeah, I think that that's what that's that's sin. God talks about it as such. But if you're in Nazi Germany and you're lying to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: save the Jews in your attic, I don't think it's the same thing. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: I agree with that. Yep. Sure.
Todd: And I've heard messages from people who would say, you know, if they'd have just had enough faith, they could have told those soldiers, there's Jews right there and they'd have walked right away. And I just think, This is crazy talk. I don't know what
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: world you live in, but this is this is just not like normal life. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Well, and here's the thing, even if it's if in the eyes of God all lying is is wrong, if I were in that position, lying about the hidden Jews in my attic, I'm perfectly willing on judgment day to stand in front of God and and say, Yeah, I yeah, I lied about that. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm.
Todd: Yeah, I don't I mean I've given multiple examples that I don't think the Bible never presents that kind of deception as wrong. Ever. It just doesn't.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Interesting.
Todd: I mean, I that I that I can find anywhere. It's just not
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: that was kind of what I was bouncing off grok. Am I missing anything?
Yo, it's Carrie: I mean right. I mean it's a slippery slope, everyone. Like be careful. You can come up with all kinds of we can come up with all kinds of justifications for lying, but
Todd: I think most of the time most of the time you would not want to. Because
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: most of the time the it's the lying that changes you. Like like
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: one of Jordan Peterson's big things is don't lie. Always tell the truth or whatever. And and yeah, I think that makes sense. But I think he even
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he would I think he would say the same exact thing. If you're in Nazi Germany and you've got Jews in the cellar, you don't give the key. Like that's just not like you're
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
Todd: in war. It's just it's different. A a war of sorts, you know what I mean? So I I anyway, that's how I see it. I I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Mm-hmm. That's fair. Mm-hmm.
Todd: God never once it's never treated as bad what Abraham did. I think that he was
Yo, it's Carrie: Interesting.
Todd: in fact, I think you could make people say it was a lack of faith on Abraham's part. I think you could make the case, because from Abraham's perspective, if he didn't have faith that God was pr gonna protect Sarah, then he was putting Sarah in a precarious position.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: But I actually think that Abraham had so much faith in God. God had appeared to him, God had called him, he knew
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: God's gonna take care of us. On our end. Yeah. God helps those who help themselves. It doesn't say
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I was gonna say he was just doing his part and controlling what he could. Not not yes, I agree.
Todd: anywhere in the Bible, but I think there's some truth to it. No, that's that's not a biblical thing. Trying to remember, was that some
Yo, it's Carrie: Doesn't it? Does it not say that anywhere? Sorry. That's like something we say in our house all the time.
Todd: black girl? Slavery time or something came up with the phrase. Someone halfway famous, but I can't remember right this second. I think she
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Okay.
Todd: was black. I think it was like a former slave or something. I can't remember. Anyway,
Yo, it's Carrie: Thatcha.
Todd: I could be wrong. Who knows? But
Yo, it's Carrie: So, all right, so you answered my question. You believe that perhaps God appeared in a dream, told
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: f told Pharaoh, Hey, this is
Todd: That is what I think.
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, revealed who Sarah was and said, You can't do this.
Todd: Well and because Abraham was right too. He said if th if because
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: of you I'll prosper, and he did. Like I it just seems to
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Right.
Todd: me like like all the signs were Abraham was doing the best he could.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And that God blessed him doing the best he could. And this
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: pagan culture that would take anything that was beautiful because
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: their lust was so strong, God didn't seem to look favorably on. You know what I mean? So
Yo, it's Carrie: Yikes. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Todd: Anyway, that's that so that's that's the one side. The other side, I think, the front end, is is
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: that's that's the biggest part. This is the Abrahamic covenant. This is
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: it is this that undergirds everything in the Old Testament that's pointing all the way to Jesus. And it's God showing up to Abram and saying, Leave your country, your
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: family, and your father's home for a land that I will show you. So on the very front end, it's the exact same thing Jesus is saying when he says, Pick up your cross and follow me, because the leaving's on the front end. He does
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: say bless him, but you gotta leave everything you've known. You can't stay comfortable and follow
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: me. I think you couldn't read the gospels and come up with anything else. Do you know what
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: I was gonna say this is a very extreme version of, you know, some of the things that we've talked about facing or that some people in well in the gospel the the disciples had to do this also. They had to give up everything.
Todd: Absolutely.
Yo, it's Carrie: But we see smaller examples of it, you know. frequently in our own lives.
Todd: Yeah, certainly we face it on on a smaller scale where for whatever reason.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. But this is extreme. This is this is like tall order time. And I don't know. It just seems like it just seems like they're like, all right, let's go. I I wanna know if there's more to that. Did Abram and Sarah
Todd: Well I I do think
Yo, it's Carrie: like lose sleep over this? Have a conversation? They like can't believe we have to do this?
Todd: It appears to me that they left before. In other words, this call I think came to Abraham while he was still in Ur the Chaldees. Seems to me that he got his father Terah on board part way. So in
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: other words, Abraham says, I've got to leave. I've been called by this God. And mind you, they're in a a a culture of idols and foreign gods and whatever. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: but Abraham believes. That he has a that he's in contact with the living God. This is where God is gonna come down and he's gonna like intervene. You know what I mean? This
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: is where, okay, this is the plan. This is how I'm gonna fix this.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: Or not fix this, but I'm gonna reunite with all of you, right?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: I'm gonna redeem my creation.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: So he says, Leave your country, your family, your father's home for a land that I will show you. Doesn't even know where he's going.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: God doesn't all I'm gonna say almost never tells you the destination on the front end. He just calls you to go, and the answer is to go.
Yo, it's Carrie: No. It doesn't. Mm-hmm.
Todd: The obedience is found not in attaining the goal, but just moving towards it, I think. Right? And
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Todd: then he gives him the promise. The promise is that I'm gonna make you a great nation and I'm gonna bless you. I'll make you famous. You'll be a blessing. I'll bless those who bless you, those who curse you, I'll curse. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you. And he's telling this to a guy whose wife is barren and has been barren and is now about 75, 70 years old, something like
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: that. And Abraham and this entire promise revolves around, man, I'm gonna make something big out of you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: And for 25 years it's gonna be before Abraham sees the fruition of that. And and and he's gonna stumble along the way, and we're gonna see as we follow this story. This is the first kind of real detailed story we've got in Genesis. We're gonna go for
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: the rest of Genesis, and this was really the part of Genesis I was most looking forward to. As much fun as we've had in the early chapters. I
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: love the stories of the patriarchs. You go from Abraham to Isaac
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: to Jacob to Joseph, and that's and you and you get these these big kind of detailed stories woven in, and in and they're really interesting, I think. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: God To call him and to make the entire basis of the blessing that he's going to be his offspring, and he doesn't even have any. And he doesn't even have any prospects.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And does he
Todd: And we're going to see through this that Abraham gets frustrated along the way over these 25 years and is like, what difference does it make how many sheep you give me? I don't have a son. Like it, like this becomes
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: this becomes a big thing for Abraham to push through in faith. It's just I can't wait.
Yo, it's Carrie: So I just reali
Todd: For the story.
Yo, it's Carrie: I just realize here that he this it this translation he says all the families of the earth but it's worded differently originally, isn't it?
Todd: Some might say nations of the earth.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, but that still doesn't imply that it's h his like his blood.
Todd: What's that, Carrie? You just disappeared. Nope,
Yo, it's Carrie: sorry.
Todd: you're back. You just glitched for a second.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. That still doesn't doesn't indicate that it's coming from his blood, like his descendants.
Todd: you're saying you don't think the the the that the other translations do. You feel like this translation
Yo, it's Carrie: I just feel
Todd: is doing it more than the message is doing it more than you remember it.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I'm just gonna see here. yes, he said he promises him so I've got it here
Todd: Is that what you're telling me? I can pull up the well, that's the new living.
Yo, it's Carrie: in front of me. What verse is this? So this is like the beginning of twelve.
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, bless you. Okay. Same thing. It's like speaking
Todd: It's pretty much the same. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: of families and nations in in general. I Well no no, no offense. I just thought I
Todd: you message doubters. I'm just kidding. I know.
Yo, it's Carrie: just thought okay, so when you say when you say that he would hesitate, he could hesitate and say, But I don't even have a son, you're just saying that it's just kind of lo it's a logical step being like, I don't even have I don't even
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: have my own kids You know, what what families are you talking about? Mm-hmm.
Todd: Well when he says, I'll make you a great nation, I'll make you famous, you'll be a blessing. It i in Abraham's culture and in Abraham's mind, that only means one thing and it's progeny. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: We we have in our culture far more of a of a of a lifetime approach to things. We'll look at things and think, wow, they built this great company in their lifetime and they had this amazing Impact but but la but earlier cultures were not as much that way. It was it was what was built by the entire kind of you know the people and that's the patriarchs and you have all these kids and these families and that's how you build a great nation. Carrie stopped. We might have to it says your recording stopped, Carrie. Now you're gone. We're gonna have to come back. I've got no microphone at all on you, Carrie. Let's stop and come back. I don't know if you can hear me. She's gone. Okay, carries back. A little bit of tech difficulties, but yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Back. Just keeping it interesting.
Todd: So anyway, I think that that that yeah, it was it was real important from the standpoint of the Abraham was looking at this as down through the centuries. You know what I mean? Building
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: a a a man that's how they thought of things back then.
Yo, it's Carrie: That having children, having having offspring, having like you said, progeny, that that is how they build a build a legacy.
Todd: Well Abraham's gonna say later on, I don't know how much
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: later on, but later on in this story, he's gonna tell he's gonna tell God, Listen, I what good? You you're blessing me. Everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I go I accumulate servants and I accumulate livestock
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: and and and I've and and I just have all this wealth and I don't have a son. What good is all this if I pass it on to my servant?
Yo, it's Carrie: Got it.
Todd: So I mean you you get a window into what makes Abraham tick, and I think it was cultural too. It just kinda made people
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure.
Todd: they thought more in terms that way. You know, that there just wasn't it wasn't as obvious that that they didn't think in terms of having a a successful life that didn't involve kids. I I really don't think they did. Like
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. It wasn't like it wasn't like a conversation. It was it was a given. Sure.
Todd: No. Yeah. So it it's interesting that that God makes this problem, but God picks Abraham and says,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Listen, do this, take this step of faith. I know it's a it's a big it's a big ask on the front end,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: but man, if you understood what I got planned for you, and Abraham believes it. That's the great thing.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: How many times can God come to people and they don't they just don't believe it? You know he tells us
Yo, it's Carrie: dun know, we see lots of we see lots of examples of people in the Bible believing him and it it astounds me every time, especially these big asks, build an ark, you know, pick up your family
Todd: Ha ha ha.
Yo, it's Carrie: and move far away and you know.
Todd: Yeah. But Abraham was on board. And and you know what I think I think Abra I think God appeared to Abraham. We're gonna see that multiple times going forward. And so when
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: it says God told Abraham, I mean he probably appeared to have told him. And yeah, Abraham just he just went full on in faith. Like his faith in
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: God was so it i he got a vision of God. That's I think what what what I'm after. When we see God.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Job, the whole book talks about, you know, Job has all these horrible things happening. Then he has all these conversations about none of this is fair with his friends, and I'm a good guy, and this, that, and the other. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: anyway, great book all the way through. But right at the end, God finally shows up, and then in the second to the last chapter, Job says, You know, I'd I'd been living on hearing about you before, but now I've seen you through the suffering, through this challenge of seeing you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: And I think that's what happened with it with Abraham with Abram. Right on the front end is he he he gets such a clear vision of God and such a clear call.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: I don't think it ever occurs to him. Like he that's that's his that he's seen reality, he's seen the ultimate reality, and like this isn't it. That's what they're talking about in Hebrews when he said they that they've they've been called to a better country. You know what I mean? That
Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: thing we read at the beginning, he says, Each one of these people of faith died. Not yet having in hand what was promised. Talking about Jesus, the Messiah, the redemption
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: of all of humanity and all of creation. They saw it, but they didn't get it. But still believing, how did they do it? They saw it way off in the distance, waved their greeting, and accepted the fact that they were transients in this world. People who live this way make it plain they are looking for their true home. You
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, please.
Todd: can see why God's so proud of them. Has a city waiting for them. That's the city that it's talking about. That's the city he called Abraham to. That's the same city that he calls all of us to. So.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I feel that that's that's the way people like Mother Teresa are. You know? That that's the type of person she she was. She knew she had a mission while she was here, but you could tell the way she lived, it wasn't about it wasn't about being in this world. I mean, it
Todd: No.
Yo, it's Carrie: was certainly about using her gifts and blessing others while she was here, but it wasn't about her. It
Todd: No.
Yo, it's Carrie: wasn't about acquisition or success, it was yeah, it was transient. It was a very transient sort of approach to life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She's just one example of many, but
Todd: She accepted it. She understood it. And yeah, I think maybe we could say that if you want if you wanna if you wanna make a big impact for God on the kingdom, the answer is get a really big vision of God. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: The bigger your picture of God, the more apt you are to step into that. And really impact some things and really make
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: and look at Mother Teresa. She didn't impact things with wealth or with anything else, but
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: just it was all spiritual treasures. That's
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: where her focus was. Her focus was on these these orphans or these whatever. You know what I mean? Where was she? Was she in Calcutta or something? I can't remember.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. She was yeah, she was Teresa of Calcutta. I'm not sure if that's where she
Todd: Calcutta's India, right?
Yo, it's Carrie: mm hmm.
Todd: Geography's a little off, sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: I know, I was like, I can't believe you just asked that on the air. Todd, when you hear something like this, you hear this this concept. Someone like Mother Teresa, someone like Abraham and Sarah. Does it just like having this big vision of God and accepting that they're transient? I mean, we
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: are too technically. It's just not how we live in 2026.
Todd: No, we're definitely are.
Yo, it's Carrie: We definitely are, but we don't look at life that way in 2026 generally. Maybe you do. You seem a little more you seem a little more like comfortable
Todd: Mike.
Yo, it's Carrie: with that concept.
Todd: Not by choice, but I've been forced into it a little, I feel like.
Yo, it's Carrie: But I know. Right. Yes, sometimes sometimes life forces you into that a little bit. But when you think that way and in those terms, does it make you look around around yourself and just wanna get rid of stuff? Like why do I have all this stuff? Well we have all these lamps back here.
Todd: I'm gonna travel light. There is something to that, something to travel and light.
Yo, it's Carrie: There is. And I just it's it's one of those things that bothers me sometimes like
Todd: Not k hauling your lamps with you.
Yo, it's Carrie: God's like, it's bright enough here. You can leave the lamps
Todd: I I I I was listening to something and I I have to tell you that what I'm about to tell you, I didn't actually hear. I've been trying to find it. It it's one
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: of those things where a post pops up on X. I really want to watch it and look at it. Something
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: happens, I go away, I come back to my phone, I pull it up, I see it for a split second, and it disappears. And it goes back and it refreshes. So anyway, Greg Laurie, who's a pastor
Yo, it's Carrie: no. What what is it what is it you're okay. Yep.
Todd: of Harvest Church, he's in the Jesus Revolution. He was the the younger guy in it.
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: Who who gets the Pastor Chuck hands and the keys at the end of the show and to a to a church and whatever. Anyway, that's Greg
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, got it. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Laurie. He's interviewing a guy named Chuck Swindahl, who's a famous radio pastor from forever,
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: like started in the seventies, had Insight for Living was the name of his show. He's ninety one now. So he's so
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: old. But this is such a good conversation. But anyway, it it's it's it's on, I think, the Greg Laurie show or something. And so I've got halfway through the show listening for this quote that I read that was supposed to be there, but I haven't actually heard it yet. But I think it must be in there. And what Chuck
Yo, it's Carrie: and you can't find it. Okay.
Todd: Swindah said is Cory Ten Boom, who was from The Hiding Place, she was the one who lived through the Holocaust and wrote the book called The Hiding Place.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: And she had met Chuck Swindah somewhere at some point. And she something along the lines of she she had met his kids or whatever. And anyway, she
Yo, it's Carrie: Isn't it?
Todd: was talking to him and she Like grabbed his hands and kind of twisted so they'd be kinda open like this.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Yeah.
Todd: And she said something to him along the lines of Hold everything God gives you like this, and it won't hurt so much when he empties it, when he takes it away, when he opens your hands, or something like that. Like hold everything open handed to God, and it won't hurt nearly so much. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. like like offering it in kind of like an offering position?
Todd: So hold everything he gives you open handed and when he takes it it won't hurt so much. Something along those lines. I don't know exactly. I didn't get to see it. I'm
Yo, it's Carrie: As it in s as opposed to like hold
Todd: still searching.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, gotcha. I'm gonna help you find it.
Todd: I swear, I searched it. I couldn't find it anyway. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: I thought I gotta listen to the whole podcast. And I haven't yet. So anyway.
Yo, it's Carrie: But do you think she's contrasting it with like holding on tightly to things? Is that it? Like it's okay.
Todd: Yes, that's what I think. And when you said starting to get rid of things, it it reminded me of that, made me think of that. I think
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: I always like to have something. Not necessarily to leave it to try to box up what we talk about. I just like
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to have something that that you can stick with because we can have kind of a c a scatter shot approach. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure.
Todd: I and and which I think is good. I like that. It's the story, you know.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: But that line in here where it says It says God appeared to Abraham, said, I'll give this land to you and your children. Then Abraham built an altar at the place God had appeared to him. And he moved on from there to the
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: hill country, and he built an altar there and prayed to God. And then it says Abraham or
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. I was gonna ask you about this.
Todd: Abram kept moving, steadily making his way south to the Negev. And that was what stuck with me was that Abraham kept moving. You
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: know, when you go into to to something that God calls you to, one of the things you don't expect is the famine. That's gonna hit 'cause you're in God's will. Why why you do why am I going to where you want me to go? And then there's a famine. And it was the famine that drove him to like we like to
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Sure.
Todd: expect that that it's not gonna be as hard as it is. It's always harder. It's always more challenging. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, if it's God's will it's gonna be a smooth trip, right? I know. But it's what we think Right. But
Todd: But that's not ever the experience. Like you're more likely to think, My God, everything's gotten impossible. I must be in the middle of God's will. Do you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: our expectations when we w head out on a journey is exactly that that that it'll be sweet. Everything's gonna be easy, yep.
Todd: Yeah. Okay, well I'm gonna obey and then everything's gonna be easy. No it's way wor it's so much harder.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, so he kept moving. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: He kept moving. I think that's important because sometimes that's all God's calling us to is just keep moving in the direction that He's called us. Through
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: it doesn't the famine doesn't make sense, but we keep going. It doesn't make sense we got to go to Egypt. It doesn't make sense that I gotta let Sarah go live in the palace, but I keep going and I keep moving because God has called me on this journey, on this adventure of a lifetime. And the one thing I gotta go do is just keep moving forward.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Not get stuck in the past, not get stopped by the obstacles, not get stuck in the detours, just keep going. You know what I mean? And along
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: the way, build altars everywhere you stop. He's leaving, he's leaving the message of God. Like, because everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he goes, we're not talking about altars that can be easily knocked down. People know that someone was here worshiping. You know what I mean? He's leaving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: something behind that says, this is. He's a message about reality and a message about God. Everywhere he goes, he's shining that light. Does that make sense?
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. No, that's great. I was thinking about the altars, but it didn't occur to me that they would be left behind for other people to to come across and mm hmm.
Todd: There's these massive stone altars. In fact, I think they'll talk about how there the these altars will come up later that people come across these altars that Abraham built, or wells that Jacob dug, things like that that that lasted. You know what I mean? That that made it
Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. Yeah.
Todd: make their way through the story.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And to me that's if you gotta lie about your wife, you gotta lie about your wife. You didn't want to, you didn't want there to be a holocaust and have to have Jews in your attic, but now there's Jews in your attic.
Yo, it's Carrie: But I I'm sorry, I just
Todd: I sound like Tucker Carlson. My god, there's Jews in my attic. Sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: But Chad, you know, you pointed this out though, and and actually this highlights two such important things and that is worship and obedience.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Yo, it's Carrie: The altars and the moving where he where he tells you to go. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Yeah, that's how he did it. He kept moving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: in worship and obedience. Hundred percent right in that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. So like faith kinda like faith and ob faith and obedience or yeah.
Todd: Yeah. So how do you keep step out in faith? How do you keep moving in faith? You just do it. And then you worship along the way. And you trust
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. Just do it.
Todd: God along the way. And you follow God the whole way. You just
Yo, it's Carrie: Even if there's a famine and even if your wife is scooped up by the pharaoh.
Todd: You just keep trusting. And it seems like seems like God honored that. I would say.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: Abraham left a pretty good legacy. So we're just getting started.
Yo, it's Carrie: All right. I know, this is just the tip of the iceberg, everyone. Tune in next week. No, it's great. Thanks, Todd.
Todd: All right. I think we did good. Anything else, Gary? Are you you happy? We did a good job.
Yo, it's Carrie: No, I think that was great. I am happy. I wanted to touch on the two altars and like you wrapped it up with it, so I knew you were gonna say something
Todd: There we go. Perfect. All right guys. Thank you.
Yo, it's Carrie: about moving too. I knew it.
Todd: See, Carrie knows. She's been out of Carrie doesn't miss a single show. Case you wonder.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's a good it's a good message.
Todd: Unlike some of you. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you so much for joining us today,
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I know. Go catch up.
Todd: guys. Todd's World dot net is where the books are at. Witness Leaves the Blue Away. Insurrections. Great. just anyway, some great books, great stories.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: Log on there. send clips of us to to people. Comment on the show. We'd love to hear comments from you. Obviously, we'll talk about
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, please.
Todd: on the front end on usually answer you if we get around if we see it. Sometimes things slip by but
Yo, it's Carrie: N now that we're into the real historical part of the Bible, maybe we'll get s we'll get some cop
Todd: Yeah. Okay, we can talk about this one. It actually happened. Okay.
Yo, it's Carrie: I'm just poking fun. I love it. Actually we appreciate the appreciate the listening
Todd: We do.
Yo, it's Carrie: and the sharing. Thank you.
Todd: All right, guys. Come back next week. Send clips
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to your friends. Recommend us to your friends because that's the only way we're gonna grow is if you tell people, listen, this this this show is like different, but there's something engaging and wildly entertaining about it. And somehow God works through it. We're as
Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. I know, he really does.
Todd: surprised as you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Sometimes, yes.
Todd: My god, there's Jews in the attic. All right, guys. Thanks. See ya next week.
Yo, it's Carrie: Thanks, Tod. Bye.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: know, when you go into to to something that God calls you to, one of the things you don't expect is the famine. That's gonna hit 'cause you're in God's will. Why why you do why am I going to where you want me to go? And then there's a famine. And it was the famine that drove him to like we like to
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Sure.
Todd: expect that that it's not gonna be as hard as it is. It's always harder. It's always more challenging. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, if it's God's will it's gonna be a smooth trip, right? I know. But it's what we think Right. But
Todd: But that's not ever the experience. Like you're more likely to think, My God, everything's gotten impossible. I must be in the middle of God's will. Do you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: our expectations when we w head out on a journey is exactly that that that it'll be sweet. Everything's gonna be easy, yep.
Todd: Yeah. Okay, well I'm gonna obey and then everything's gonna be easy. No it's way wor it's so much harder.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, so he kept moving. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: He kept moving. I think that's important because sometimes that's all God's calling us to is just keep moving in the direction that He's called us. Through
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: it doesn't the famine doesn't make sense, but we keep going. It doesn't make sense we got to go to Egypt. It doesn't make sense that I gotta let Sarah go live in the palace, but I keep going and I keep moving because God has called me on this journey, on this adventure of a lifetime. And the one thing I gotta go do is just keep moving forward.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Not get stuck in the past, not get stopped by the obstacles, not get stuck in the detours, just keep going. You know what I mean? And along
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: the way, build altars everywhere you stop. He's leaving, he's leaving the message of God. Like, because everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he goes, we're not talking about altars that can be easily knocked down. People know that someone was here worshiping. You know what I mean? He's leaving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: something behind that says, this is. He's a message about reality and a message about God. Everywhere he goes, he's shining that light.
Yo, it's Carrie: But Chad, you know, you pointed this out though,
Todd: Sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: and and actually this highlights two such important things and that is worship and obedience. In talent.
Todd: Welcome everyone to Beards with Jesus, Todd's World. Carrie's with me. I'm Todd. How's it going, Carrie? Great.
Yo, it's Carrie: Great. Happy happy Beers with Jesus Day.
Todd: Yeah, and this is our week on with the Wildly Opinion Aid News Hour. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: we do every week Beers with Jesus. So we we're shining the light of the gospel truth out there every week. And then bi weekly every other
Yo, it's Carrie: We try.
Todd: week we do the Wildly Opinion Aid News Hour, which we did this week. So it dropped yesterday. Check it out.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: That's our politics, news, humor. Just kind of fun,
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: you know.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's pretty humorous, we think so.
Todd: We talked a lot about the W NBA this week, so you know. Who'd ever thought anybody would say that in the world? They talked a lot about the WNBA.
Yo, it's Carrie: The hullabaloo. The hullabaloo. Which I had to explain. and when I was asked by my boys what is a hullabaloo? I was like, Well, Todd uses the word kerfuffle and they're like, Well what's that? I'm like I'm like, man, I don't even know where to begin.
Todd: That's why the young the younger generation needs this show.
Yo, it's Carrie: So we don't lose these important Yeah. Okay.
Todd: We're bringing back, we're widening their vocabulary. So and by the way, thank you everyone for tuning in. we we love doing this. It has been great. you know, I got some comments
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Thanks for being here.
Todd: last week on beers. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: did you on our special edition?
Todd: On one in particular on YouTube said
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: and and you know what? We my friend Pastor Darrow, who didn't join us last week because he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: didn't have anything significant add. Found something significant to add later in a text with me. And it was the same comment,
Yo, it's Carrie: did he? Did he
Todd: it was the same as comment on YouTube, which is why I'm saying it, which is the
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: guy on YouTube said, you know, this didn't really happen. You know, we're talking about whether whether these opening stories are kind of more of a mythology, kind of a meta-narrative or not. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: this guy was on board with that. And or just wanted to make sure we knew this didn't really happen. It's not literal. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. We we sounded convinced and he didn't
Todd: Well, I am convinced of it, but to which my answer on on the YouTube comment was the same as it is in general, which is I'm not sure what difference it makes. In other words, when when
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: we're talking about the story of like the sower and the seeds of Jesus, we
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: don't assume that that sower was a historical person. It's just it's like Aesop's Fables, right? It's a story. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. It was to teach a lesson.
Todd: you're using you're you're engaging with the story in the same way and with the characters in the same way. To learn the same lessons, so
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I'm just not sure what difference it makes. From to us, I mean, other than
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: other than I did point this out, I didn't get into this in into the comments and stuff, but I did point this out to Pastor Daryl, and to which he never had a good response. But or I didn't have I maybe didn't forgot about it. You know how texting is. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: anyway, but if you look at Hebrews 11 in the Hall of Faith, it specifically
Yo, it's Carrie: Let's hear it. Yes. that's right.
Todd: references Abel, Enoch, and Noah. So what Pastor
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Daryl I said, so when do you think things really started actually happening? Like when one of the when's historical? And he said
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. If the Yeah.
Todd: with the call of Abraham, which that's where we're at today, guys. So I think
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. But if in but if those people are mentioned in the hall of faith in Hebrews, it does speak to some some level of accuracy, don't you think?
Todd: I think it I think the genealogy I think the whole thing doesn't it doesn't sound mythological.
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, the whole genealogy. Yeah, I don't think if it were just a if it were a parable, it wouldn't start with two pages of genealogy. Sure.
Todd: I could live with it if it was. Like if we get there and God's like those were those were kind of like parables and and foundational stories, but you don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Sure.
Todd: get there's no Adam to meet. I mean, it'd be strange to me given some of the things that Jesus said and Paul said, but I'd be like, okay, that's fine. It doesn't doesn't necessarily change all that much. But when you got
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Todd: like Hebrews 11, and it talks about by faith Abel did this, and by faith Enoch walked with God, and by faith Noah became intimate with God. And then In Hebrews 11, 13, it says each one of these people of faith died not having yet in hand what was promised, but still believing. How did they do it? They saw it way off in the distance, waved
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: their greeting, and accepted the fact that they were transients in this world. We'll get back to this passage later on. People
Yo, it's Carrie: Cool.
Todd: who live this way make it plain that they are looking for their true home. If they were homesick for the old country, they could have gone back anytime they wanted. But they were after a far better country than that. Heaven country. You can see why God is so proud of them and has a city waiting for them. So at the beginning he says each one, and then he says God has a city waiting for And I think that's not how God would talk about Zeus. I don't think. I
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: just it doesn't make sense to me.
Yo, it's Carrie: It doesn't. Well, and right before Jesus tells the story of the the sower and the seeds, he doesn't give the sowers genealogy.
Todd: Right. I I don't I I think I think it's historical. It reads historical to me.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's it's a great point, Todd. Sure. Mm-hmm.
Todd: I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't
Yo, it's Carrie: Me neither.
Todd: shake my faith. And if people out there like Pastor Daryl believe that it's more mythological
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: than a meta narrative, that's perfectly fine. Like we still are we still love the same Jesus.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. I'd like his answer to those points though.
Todd: You know what I mean? Like we're all on board. We just happen to disagree on this point. But again, I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: know that It makes a whole lot of difference. At least in how we approach And Beers of Jesus. I don't I don't know how I would do it any different. You know what I mean? Like you you
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: you get into a story the same way is kind of my point. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: but anyway, that was out there and that was an interesting so I don't remember the person on YouTube that made the comment. But thanks for commenting and thanks for listening. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, thank you. And someone also put out there something about landing on the moon, right?
Todd: Yeah, I didn't understand that exactly. Other than I think they were trying to make the main the same point, which was that this Tower of Babel thing
Yo, it's Carrie: I think we were comparing Yeah.
Todd: didn't really happen. And listen, I it it's a reasonable it's reasonable if people want to take that position.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I I would not take it I was reminded of this when we talked about Dr. Hobbit Fauci on news yesterday. I wouldn't personally take it because I felt like the science was telling a different story because I think the science has been proven relatively not trustworthy. But
Yo, it's Carrie: The so it depends on the source.
Todd: but if you if if you feel like for whatever reason reading the the Bible that that that makes more sense as as kind of the underlying myths, I don't have a problem with that. It's fine. We still talk about the same way. So and so anyway that was all. But now I think with the call of Abram Chapter twelve where we're gonna start. I think everybody's on page that this is historical. You pretty much trace the Jews. The Jews all trace their lineage back to Abraham. Everybody's
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay.
Todd: pretty much on board that Abraham was a real dude. So I think from here on out that the story's biblical. Other than there's still some people probably who think that miracles and like Jonah and the whale and things like that didn't happen. They were more meta narratives too, or whatever. Some of the more
Yo, it's Carrie: So for
Todd: what would you say, fantastic stuff in the Bible. I d I don't know.
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Yes. The more fantastic stories.
Todd: Party near the Red Sea, they'll try to be like, the tide was out. No. That changes the story a little.
Yo, it's Carrie: Which is very different. If you've ever seen the tide going out. Yeah. But you know. and for those who don't know, because we do just we have this show here for people who maybe haven't spent a lot of time in the Bible. Abram, who we're talking about today, becomes Abraham. He's renamed. This is the same person, right?
Todd: Yeah. Yeah, and you know, guys, I'm gonna apologize on the front end because I've been my my good buddy Will's been over and we've been going back this morning before we recorded this, we spent a lot of the morning we were talking about this passage and bouncing things back and forth, bouncing
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: some things off grok. When I say that I mostly like I have some ideas that The Bible never says certain things and I
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: like to run it by grok for a quick research on the whole Bible. And then I'm usually I'm right, yeah, the Bible doesn't say that. Or sometimes it does. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Is is there anything I'm not thinking of?
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: but I have it's not like it's really given me any new ideas. Do you know what I mean? It's mostly I'm just it's a little faster
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. I hope not.
Todd: way of researching than than other things.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: But but I constantly the entire time was mixing up Abraham and Abram.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: Because I because he God changes his name to Abraham, and then for the entire rest of the Bible, he's referred to as Abraham. But for these early chapters,
Yo, it's Carrie: In the rest of history he's referred to as Abraham. So
Todd: if I mix them up, Abraham and Abram are the same person. I know. Okay. All right, we're gonna
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Is this wife's name different also?
Todd: Sarai and Sarah, but it it is the same. She her name wasn't changed, I don't think, really. I think it's it's a difference. I'm not really sure, honestly,
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. She becomes Sarah. Okay. It's just transl is it a translation thing? I meant to look that up, I just remembered it. Okay.
Todd: about that.
Yo, it's Carrie: So save people.
Todd: Anyway, I'm gonna start back
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: in eleven just a little where it says the family tree of terror. It's
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: eleven twenty-seven.
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: And then we're gonna roll right through twelve.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: And we read the message, guys, because the message is the best. I like his most narrative. I think Eugene Peterson did a great job on it. And for people who don't think you should use the message as a study bible. Well, I think you're crazy. But anyway, whatever works, really, whatever
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Okay.
Todd: translation of the Bible you're willing to read, that's the one that you like, that works. I think God
Yo, it's Carrie: Go for it.
Todd: the Holy Spirit will work through any of them. So
Yo, it's Carrie: True. That's very true.
Todd: but we read the message. I like the way it reads, whole thing. So, anyway, the family tree of Terah. This is the story of Tera. Terah had Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran had Lot. Haran died before his father. Terah, in the country of his family, Ur of the Chaldes. Or Chaldis, whatever. Abram and Nahor each got married. Abram's wife was Sarai. Nahor's wife was Milkah, the daughter of his brother Haran. Haron had two daughters, Milka and Iscah. Sarai was Baron. She had no children. Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot, and Sarai his daughter-in-law. his son Abram's wife, and set out with them from Ur of the Chaldees for the land of Canaan. But when they got as far as Haran, they settled down there. Terran Terah lived two hundred and five years. He died in Haran. Now CHAPTER twelve Abram and Sarai God told Abram, Leave your country, your family, and your father's home for a land that I will show you. I'll make you a great nation, and bless you. I'll make you famous. You'll be a blessing. I'll bless those who bless you. Those who curse you I'll curse. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you. So Abram left just as God said, and Lot left with him. Abram was seventy five years old when he left Haran. Abram took his wife Sarai and his nephew Lot with him, along with all the possessions and people they had gotten in Haran. And set out for the land of Canaan and arrived safe and sound. Abram passed through the country as far as Shechem and the Oak of Morah. At that time the Canaanites occupied the land. God appeared to Abram and said, I will give this land to your children. Abram built an altar at the place God had appeared to him. He moved on from there to the hill country east of Bethel, and pitched his tent between Bethel to the west and Ai to the east. He built an altar there and prayed to God. Abram kept moving, steadily making his way south to the Negev. Then a famine came to the land. Abram went down to Egypt to live. It was a hard famine. As he drew near Egypt, he said to his wife, Sarai, Look, we both know you're a beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they're going to say, Aha, that's his wife, and kill me. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: they'll let you live. Do me a favor, tell them you're my sister. Because of you they'll welcome me and let me live. When Abram arrived in Egypt, the Egyptians took one look and saw that his wife was stunningly beautiful. Pharaoh's princes raved over her to Pharaoh. She was taken to live with Pharaoh.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: Because of her, Abraham got along very well and Abraham Abram was right as a boy. He
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: he accumulated sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, men and women servants, and camels. But God hit Pharaoh hard because of Abram's wife Sarai. Everybody in the palace got seriously sick. Pharaoh called for Abram. What's this that you've done to me? Why didn't you tell me that she's your wife? Why did you say she's my sister? So that I'd take her back, take her as my wife. Here's your wife back. Take her and get out. Pharaoh ordered his men to get Abram out of the country. They sent him and his wife and everything he owned on their way.
Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm.
Todd: There it is.
Yo, it's Carrie: Good job.
Todd: What do you think, Gary? You n did you know this story or no? I have an idea.
Yo, it's Carrie: I don't even know where I didn't I I vaguely remembered it. I I didn't remember
Todd: Words by the way, Beers of Jesus. Cheers everyone. Cheers to Abram and Sarai.
Yo, it's Carrie: What cheers Well cheer cheers to poor Sarah because well both of both of them
Todd: Leaving comfort and home and family.
Yo, it's Carrie: I know. yeah, I I remember I remember this story. I remember them being told t to go. I didn't remember that Sarah has to lie about who she is and that she then kinda gets scooped up by the royalty there. That's pretty awful. I mean they're in survival mode,
Todd: Mm-hmm. You know what's interesting.
Yo, it's Carrie: but that's what that's terrible.
Todd: We're going to see this twice. Well, we're actually going to see it three times. We're going to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: see it twice with Abram, once with Abraham, once with Abraham, same person. And then I think I don't remember it's the same. It might not be Egypt again. It might be a different place. And then with Isaac, who is Abraham's Abraham's son, Abraham and Sarah's son, the promise, you know,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right?
Todd: does the exact same thing with Rebecca, his wife. Egg I mean nearly exactly. So we see this happen
Yo, it's Carrie: Really? Okay.
Todd: three times. What I think is interesting about it, and this this is a lot of what Will and I were talking about.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: Because Will and I grew up we're Will's my best friend, we're childhood friends. We grew up church together and went to college together. Anyway, we had a lot of the same life experiences is my point. So we've heard a lot of preachers and a lot of a lot of different people talk about this passage and talk about how
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: it was wrong for Abraham to lie. It was kind of a lack of faith on on his part, but God blessed him anyway. And and
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: I would like to say that that it's just not presented that way. It's not presented that way anywhere in the Bible. God's in fact The only person who's who who walks away blessed out of this is Abraham. He's
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: blessed while it's happening and when he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: leaves, and the only people cursed were the people who tried to take his wife.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: It's just not presented like God's upset that Abraham lied.
Yo, it's Carrie: No, no it is definitely isn't. I feel like Yeah.
Todd: There's a few other circumstances like that. The when Moses was born a as a baby, at the time
Yo, it's Carrie: right.
Todd: at the time Pharaoh was had had issued a decree that all the male infants born to Hebrew to the Hebrew slaves should be killed, drowned in the Nile
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: River or whatever. And so when they came in, the Egyptian midwives lied to Pharaoh and said, these they these women they they get there, we don't get there in time, they have the babies too fast and this, that, and the other. And so they hit
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they and that's pres
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: and then God blessed them after that. Rahab
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: the harlot did the same thing. In fact, she made it into the line of Christ. It says
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: right in Matthew, in the line of Christ, Rahab the harlot is one of his ancestors. And she was in Jericho when Joshua and the Egyptians are finally going in and they're taking the promised land of Canaan. And they
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: remember they march around Jericho seven times, and the walls come tumbling down. There's a Sunday school song about that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Yes.
Todd: And it Before that, they sent a couple spies in to scout out Jericho. Rahab was Rahab the harlot. They went to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: her house. The soldiers from the king came looking for these spies and she lied to them and said they'd gotten away a different way. And again, God only blesses her for that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: So I don't think and see, Will and I were talking about how we grew up in in
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: faith traditions that everything was so it was so important to have everything boxed up that this you couldn't lie and have it be okay. And so they'd work their way into all kinds of circles to get to why why you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Gotcha. I mean it's it's clear from these examples that I'm not trying to say I understand God's mind, but it's clear from these examples that these lies were used to protect special people, holy people for whom God had a purpose. So I mean that's what I felt before you gave the other examples. Sarah and Abraham, Abram were obviously special to God.
Todd: Yeah, he's gonna
Yo, it's Carrie: they have a purpose, he's going to protect them and
Todd: The Messiah is going to come through Abraham. He's going to be a blessing to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: to all. That's when I'm going to make you a blessing. You're going to be famous.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: All the families of the earth are going to be blessed through you. He's talking about Jesus, because Jesus comes through the line of Abraham, and that's how he's going
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to ri that's the entire thing.
Yo, it's Carrie: thing I was trying to figure out is how does the Pharaoh come to realize that this you know, these is it the plague that the plague is a result of this. I'm trying to figure out it's skimmed over and I'm really curious. Mm-hmm.
Todd: You know, in the in the next in the next story where it happens with Abraham, God appears to whoever the king is in a dream. And he
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Todd: says, Don't touch that man's wife or I'll kill you. That makes me think that he did that they didn't he didn't get far enough
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: that to get the goods on Sarah. Yeah, I I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, good.
Todd: in other words, however long she'd probably put in the harem, probably getting but but he was gonna take her. Like that was the whole point.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. As a wife,
Todd: I just don't believe
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah.
Todd: he did based on the next story. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: you you guys can think what you want once we get there. But b
Yo, it's Carrie: All right. Thank you, Todd. I like that version.
Todd: because
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: I and so I just don't I don't think that he did, but I mean it could be that God appeared to him, but but at some point this happened, it's comparable a little bit to what happened with with Saul went to Saul the first king of Israel, went to battle with the Philistines, had and and they were losing. The Israelites were losing the
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: battle, and he had the Ark of the Covenant, you know. Readers of the Lost Ark, the famous Ark of the Covenant that
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Right.
Todd: they carried around from Moses and everything, had the pieces of the Ten Commandments and stuff in it. of the tablets, whatever. They had
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: that brought out to battle thinking that this'll help us. The Philistines end up completely destroying the Israelites in battle, and they take the Ark of the Covenant and they take
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: it back to whatever the towns were that are in Philistia, the Philistines' lands.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they put the Ark of the Covenant next to their god Dagon in the in the temple there. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: all the all of the people in the king's household start getting ulcers and sick and tumors and all kinds of things.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And they end up sending the ark back on a they have their people come in and they're like, How do we get rid of this thing?
Yo, it's Carrie: Wow.
Todd: So somehow there's the same it's like it's like There's certain things like you're saying, I think Sarah was was one. She was gonna have the seed. Her only son well, her yeah, her only son was gonna be Isaac, and
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he was gonna be the promise, he was gonna the Messiah was gonna come through that. And God, it doesn't matter what happened, God wasn't gonna let that part be messed with. Period. You know what I mean? And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: God's anger seems to be a lot more for the people that live in a culture where they'll just take what they want and kill the guy who's married to her than the guy who for self preservation and i is they they have to come up with a different story. Does that make sense?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah. Completely.
Todd: I kind of compared it what Will and I came up with is it's kind of like the difference between thou shalt not murder and
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: killing. Killing in war, killing and for other reasons, state sponsored, whatever. And I think
Yo, it's Carrie: gotcha. Right.
Todd: that's true with the lying thing. In other words,
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: if you're lying, if you're bearing false witness, if you're lying for personal gain or to save
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: your own skin or do this or that or that or the other. Then yeah, I think that that's what that's that's sin. God talks about it as such. But if you're in Nazi Germany and you're lying to
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: save the Jews in your attic, I don't think it's the same thing. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: I agree with that. Yep. Sure.
Todd: And I've heard messages from people who would say, you know, if they'd have just had enough faith, they could have told those soldiers, there's Jews right there and they'd have walked right away. And I just think, This is crazy talk. I don't know what
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: world you live in, but this is this is just not like normal life. So
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Well, and here's the thing, even if it's if in the eyes of God all lying is is wrong, if I were in that position, lying about the hidden Jews in my attic, I'm perfectly willing on judgment day to stand in front of God and and say, Yeah, I yeah, I lied about that. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm.
Todd: Yeah, I don't I mean I've given multiple examples that I don't think the Bible never presents that kind of deception as wrong. Ever. It just doesn't.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Interesting.
Todd: I mean, I that I that I can find anywhere. It's just not
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: that was kind of what I was bouncing off grok. Am I missing anything?
Yo, it's Carrie: I mean right. I mean it's a slippery slope, everyone. Like be careful. You can come up with all kinds of we can come up with all kinds of justifications for lying, but
Todd: I think most of the time most of the time you would not want to. Because
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: most of the time the it's the lying that changes you. Like like
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: one of Jordan Peterson's big things is don't lie. Always tell the truth or whatever. And and yeah, I think that makes sense. But I think he even
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he would I think he would say the same exact thing. If you're in Nazi Germany and you've got Jews in the cellar, you don't give the key. Like that's just not like you're
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
Todd: in war. It's just it's different. A a war of sorts, you know what I mean? So I I anyway, that's how I see it. I I don't
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Mm-hmm. That's fair. Mm-hmm.
Todd: God never once it's never treated as bad what Abraham did. I think that he was
Yo, it's Carrie: Interesting.
Todd: in fact, I think you could make people say it was a lack of faith on Abraham's part. I think you could make the case, because from Abraham's perspective, if he didn't have faith that God was pr gonna protect Sarah, then he was putting Sarah in a precarious position.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: But I actually think that Abraham had so much faith in God. God had appeared to him, God had called him, he knew
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: God's gonna take care of us. On our end. Yeah. God helps those who help themselves. It doesn't say
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I was gonna say he was just doing his part and controlling what he could. Not not yes, I agree.
Todd: anywhere in the Bible, but I think there's some truth to it. No, that's that's not a biblical thing. Trying to remember, was that some
Yo, it's Carrie: Doesn't it? Does it not say that anywhere? Sorry. That's like something we say in our house all the time.
Todd: black girl? Slavery time or something came up with the phrase. Someone halfway famous, but I can't remember right this second. I think she
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Okay.
Todd: was black. I think it was like a former slave or something. I can't remember. Anyway,
Yo, it's Carrie: Thatcha.
Todd: I could be wrong. Who knows? But
Yo, it's Carrie: So, all right, so you answered my question. You believe that perhaps God appeared in a dream, told
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: f told Pharaoh, Hey, this is
Todd: That is what I think.
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, revealed who Sarah was and said, You can't do this.
Todd: Well and because Abraham was right too. He said if th if because
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: of you I'll prosper, and he did. Like I it just seems to
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Right.
Todd: me like like all the signs were Abraham was doing the best he could.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And that God blessed him doing the best he could. And this
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: pagan culture that would take anything that was beautiful because
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: their lust was so strong, God didn't seem to look favorably on. You know what I mean? So
Yo, it's Carrie: Yikes. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Todd: Anyway, that's that so that's that's the one side. The other side, I think, the front end, is is
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: that's that's the biggest part. This is the Abrahamic covenant. This is
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: it is this that undergirds everything in the Old Testament that's pointing all the way to Jesus. And it's God showing up to Abram and saying, Leave your country, your
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: family, and your father's home for a land that I will show you. So on the very front end, it's the exact same thing Jesus is saying when he says, Pick up your cross and follow me, because the leaving's on the front end. He does
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: say bless him, but you gotta leave everything you've known. You can't stay comfortable and follow
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: me. I think you couldn't read the gospels and come up with anything else. Do you know what
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: I was gonna say this is a very extreme version of, you know, some of the things that we've talked about facing or that some people in well in the gospel the the disciples had to do this also. They had to give up everything.
Todd: Absolutely.
Yo, it's Carrie: But we see smaller examples of it, you know. frequently in our own lives.
Todd: Yeah, certainly we face it on on a smaller scale where for whatever reason.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. But this is extreme. This is this is like tall order time. And I don't know. It just seems like it just seems like they're like, all right, let's go. I I wanna know if there's more to that. Did Abram and Sarah
Todd: Well I I do think
Yo, it's Carrie: like lose sleep over this? Have a conversation? They like can't believe we have to do this?
Todd: It appears to me that they left before. In other words, this call I think came to Abraham while he was still in Ur the Chaldees. Seems to me that he got his father Terah on board part way. So in
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: other words, Abraham says, I've got to leave. I've been called by this God. And mind you, they're in a a a culture of idols and foreign gods and whatever. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: but Abraham believes. That he has a that he's in contact with the living God. This is where God is gonna come down and he's gonna like intervene. You know what I mean? This
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: is where, okay, this is the plan. This is how I'm gonna fix this.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: Or not fix this, but I'm gonna reunite with all of you, right?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: I'm gonna redeem my creation.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: So he says, Leave your country, your family, your father's home for a land that I will show you. Doesn't even know where he's going.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: God doesn't all I'm gonna say almost never tells you the destination on the front end. He just calls you to go, and the answer is to go.
Yo, it's Carrie: No. It doesn't. Mm-hmm.
Todd: The obedience is found not in attaining the goal, but just moving towards it, I think. Right? And
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Todd: then he gives him the promise. The promise is that I'm gonna make you a great nation and I'm gonna bless you. I'll make you famous. You'll be a blessing. I'll bless those who bless you, those who curse you, I'll curse. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you. And he's telling this to a guy whose wife is barren and has been barren and is now about 75, 70 years old, something like
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: that. And Abraham and this entire promise revolves around, man, I'm gonna make something big out of you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: And for 25 years it's gonna be before Abraham sees the fruition of that. And and and he's gonna stumble along the way, and we're gonna see as we follow this story. This is the first kind of real detailed story we've got in Genesis. We're gonna go for
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: the rest of Genesis, and this was really the part of Genesis I was most looking forward to. As much fun as we've had in the early chapters. I
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: love the stories of the patriarchs. You go from Abraham to Isaac
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: to Jacob to Joseph, and that's and you and you get these these big kind of detailed stories woven in, and in and they're really interesting, I think. But
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: God To call him and to make the entire basis of the blessing that he's going to be his offspring, and he doesn't even have any. And he doesn't even have any prospects.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. And does he
Todd: And we're going to see through this that Abraham gets frustrated along the way over these 25 years and is like, what difference does it make how many sheep you give me? I don't have a son. Like it, like this becomes
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: this becomes a big thing for Abraham to push through in faith. It's just I can't wait.
Yo, it's Carrie: So I just reali
Todd: For the story.
Yo, it's Carrie: I just realize here that he this it this translation he says all the families of the earth but it's worded differently originally, isn't it?
Todd: Some might say nations of the earth.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, but that still doesn't imply that it's h his like his blood.
Todd: What's that, Carrie? You just disappeared. Nope,
Yo, it's Carrie: sorry.
Todd: you're back. You just glitched for a second.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. That still doesn't doesn't indicate that it's coming from his blood, like his descendants.
Todd: you're saying you don't think the the the that the other translations do. You feel like this translation
Yo, it's Carrie: I just feel
Todd: is doing it more than the message is doing it more than you remember it.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I'm just gonna see here. yes, he said he promises him so I've got it here
Todd: Is that what you're telling me? I can pull up the well, that's the new living.
Yo, it's Carrie: in front of me. What verse is this? So this is like the beginning of twelve.
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, bless you. Okay. Same thing. It's like speaking
Todd: It's pretty much the same. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: of families and nations in in general. I Well no no, no offense. I just thought I
Todd: you message doubters. I'm just kidding. I know.
Yo, it's Carrie: just thought okay, so when you say when you say that he would hesitate, he could hesitate and say, But I don't even have a son, you're just saying that it's just kind of lo it's a logical step being like, I don't even have I don't even
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: have my own kids You know, what what families are you talking about? Mm-hmm.
Todd: Well when he says, I'll make you a great nation, I'll make you famous, you'll be a blessing. It i in Abraham's culture and in Abraham's mind, that only means one thing and it's progeny. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: We we have in our culture far more of a of a of a lifetime approach to things. We'll look at things and think, wow, they built this great company in their lifetime and they had this amazing Impact but but la but earlier cultures were not as much that way. It was it was what was built by the entire kind of you know the people and that's the patriarchs and you have all these kids and these families and that's how you build a great nation. Carrie stopped. We might have to it says your recording stopped, Carrie. Now you're gone. We're gonna have to come back. I've got no microphone at all on you, Carrie. Let's stop and come back. I don't know if you can hear me. She's gone. Okay, carries back. A little bit of tech difficulties, but yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Back. Just keeping it interesting.
Todd: So anyway, I think that that that yeah, it was it was real important from the standpoint of the Abraham was looking at this as down through the centuries. You know what I mean? Building
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: a a a man that's how they thought of things back then.
Yo, it's Carrie: That having children, having having offspring, having like you said, progeny, that that is how they build a build a legacy.
Todd: Well Abraham's gonna say later on, I don't know how much
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: later on, but later on in this story, he's gonna tell he's gonna tell God, Listen, I what good? You you're blessing me. Everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: I go I accumulate servants and I accumulate livestock
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: and and and I've and and I just have all this wealth and I don't have a son. What good is all this if I pass it on to my servant?
Yo, it's Carrie: Got it.
Todd: So I mean you you get a window into what makes Abraham tick, and I think it was cultural too. It just kinda made people
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure.
Todd: they thought more in terms that way. You know, that there just wasn't it wasn't as obvious that that they didn't think in terms of having a a successful life that didn't involve kids. I I really don't think they did. Like
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. It wasn't like it wasn't like a conversation. It was it was a given. Sure.
Todd: No. Yeah. So it it's interesting that that God makes this problem, but God picks Abraham and says,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Listen, do this, take this step of faith. I know it's a it's a big it's a big ask on the front end,
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: but man, if you understood what I got planned for you, and Abraham believes it. That's the great thing.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: How many times can God come to people and they don't they just don't believe it? You know he tells us
Yo, it's Carrie: dun know, we see lots of we see lots of examples of people in the Bible believing him and it it astounds me every time, especially these big asks, build an ark, you know, pick up your family
Todd: Ha ha ha.
Yo, it's Carrie: and move far away and you know.
Todd: Yeah. But Abraham was on board. And and you know what I think I think Abra I think God appeared to Abraham. We're gonna see that multiple times going forward. And so when
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: it says God told Abraham, I mean he probably appeared to have told him. And yeah, Abraham just he just went full on in faith. Like his faith in
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: God was so it i he got a vision of God. That's I think what what what I'm after. When we see God.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Job, the whole book talks about, you know, Job has all these horrible things happening. Then he has all these conversations about none of this is fair with his friends, and I'm a good guy, and this, that, and the other. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: anyway, great book all the way through. But right at the end, God finally shows up, and then in the second to the last chapter, Job says, You know, I'd I'd been living on hearing about you before, but now I've seen you through the suffering, through this challenge of seeing you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm.
Todd: And I think that's what happened with it with Abraham with Abram. Right on the front end is he he he gets such a clear vision of God and such a clear call.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: I don't think it ever occurs to him. Like he that's that's his that he's seen reality, he's seen the ultimate reality, and like this isn't it. That's what they're talking about in Hebrews when he said they that they've they've been called to a better country. You know what I mean? That
Yo, it's Carrie: okay. Mm-hmm.
Todd: thing we read at the beginning, he says, Each one of these people of faith died. Not yet having in hand what was promised. Talking about Jesus, the Messiah, the redemption
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: of all of humanity and all of creation. They saw it, but they didn't get it. But still believing, how did they do it? They saw it way off in the distance, waved their greeting, and accepted the fact that they were transients in this world. People who live this way make it plain they are looking for their true home. You
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, please.
Todd: can see why God's so proud of them. Has a city waiting for them. That's the city that it's talking about. That's the city he called Abraham to. That's the same city that he calls all of us to. So.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, I feel that that's that's the way people like Mother Teresa are. You know? That that's the type of person she she was. She knew she had a mission while she was here, but you could tell the way she lived, it wasn't about it wasn't about being in this world. I mean, it
Todd: No.
Yo, it's Carrie: was certainly about using her gifts and blessing others while she was here, but it wasn't about her. It
Todd: No.
Yo, it's Carrie: wasn't about acquisition or success, it was yeah, it was transient. It was a very transient sort of approach to life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She's just one example of many, but
Todd: She accepted it. She understood it. And yeah, I think maybe we could say that if you want if you wanna if you wanna make a big impact for God on the kingdom, the answer is get a really big vision of God. You know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: The bigger your picture of God, the more apt you are to step into that. And really impact some things and really make
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: and look at Mother Teresa. She didn't impact things with wealth or with anything else, but
Yo, it's Carrie: Right.
Todd: just it was all spiritual treasures. That's
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: where her focus was. Her focus was on these these orphans or these whatever. You know what I mean? Where was she? Was she in Calcutta or something? I can't remember.
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. She was yeah, she was Teresa of Calcutta. I'm not sure if that's where she
Todd: Calcutta's India, right?
Yo, it's Carrie: mm hmm.
Todd: Geography's a little off, sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: I know, I was like, I can't believe you just asked that on the air. Todd, when you hear something like this, you hear this this concept. Someone like Mother Teresa, someone like Abraham and Sarah. Does it just like having this big vision of God and accepting that they're transient? I mean, we
Todd: Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: are too technically. It's just not how we live in 2026.
Todd: No, we're definitely are.
Yo, it's Carrie: We definitely are, but we don't look at life that way in 2026 generally. Maybe you do. You seem a little more you seem a little more like comfortable
Todd: Mike.
Yo, it's Carrie: with that concept.
Todd: Not by choice, but I've been forced into it a little, I feel like.
Yo, it's Carrie: But I know. Right. Yes, sometimes sometimes life forces you into that a little bit. But when you think that way and in those terms, does it make you look around around yourself and just wanna get rid of stuff? Like why do I have all this stuff? Well we have all these lamps back here.
Todd: I'm gonna travel light. There is something to that, something to travel and light.
Yo, it's Carrie: There is. And I just it's it's one of those things that bothers me sometimes like
Todd: Not k hauling your lamps with you.
Yo, it's Carrie: God's like, it's bright enough here. You can leave the lamps
Todd: I I I I was listening to something and I I have to tell you that what I'm about to tell you, I didn't actually hear. I've been trying to find it. It it's one
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: of those things where a post pops up on X. I really want to watch it and look at it. Something
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: happens, I go away, I come back to my phone, I pull it up, I see it for a split second, and it disappears. And it goes back and it refreshes. So anyway, Greg Laurie, who's a pastor
Yo, it's Carrie: no. What what is it what is it you're okay. Yep.
Todd: of Harvest Church, he's in the Jesus Revolution. He was the the younger guy in it.
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: Who who gets the Pastor Chuck hands and the keys at the end of the show and to a to a church and whatever. Anyway, that's Greg
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, got it. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Laurie. He's interviewing a guy named Chuck Swindahl, who's a famous radio pastor from forever,
Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh.
Todd: like started in the seventies, had Insight for Living was the name of his show. He's ninety one now. So he's so
Yo, it's Carrie: okay.
Todd: old. But this is such a good conversation. But anyway, it it's it's it's on, I think, the Greg Laurie show or something. And so I've got halfway through the show listening for this quote that I read that was supposed to be there, but I haven't actually heard it yet. But I think it must be in there. And what Chuck
Yo, it's Carrie: and you can't find it. Okay.
Todd: Swindah said is Cory Ten Boom, who was from The Hiding Place, she was the one who lived through the Holocaust and wrote the book called The Hiding Place.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: And she had met Chuck Swindah somewhere at some point. And she something along the lines of she she had met his kids or whatever. And anyway, she
Yo, it's Carrie: Isn't it?
Todd: was talking to him and she Like grabbed his hands and kind of twisted so they'd be kinda open like this.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Yeah.
Todd: And she said something to him along the lines of Hold everything God gives you like this, and it won't hurt so much when he empties it, when he takes it away, when he opens your hands, or something like that. Like hold everything open handed to God, and it won't hurt nearly so much. Yeah.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. like like offering it in kind of like an offering position?
Todd: So hold everything he gives you open handed and when he takes it it won't hurt so much. Something along those lines. I don't know exactly. I didn't get to see it. I'm
Yo, it's Carrie: As it in s as opposed to like hold
Todd: still searching.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, gotcha. I'm gonna help you find it.
Todd: I swear, I searched it. I couldn't find it anyway. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay.
Todd: I thought I gotta listen to the whole podcast. And I haven't yet. So anyway.
Yo, it's Carrie: But do you think she's contrasting it with like holding on tightly to things? Is that it? Like it's okay.
Todd: Yes, that's what I think. And when you said starting to get rid of things, it it reminded me of that, made me think of that. I think
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: I always like to have something. Not necessarily to leave it to try to box up what we talk about. I just like
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to have something that that you can stick with because we can have kind of a c a scatter shot approach. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Sure.
Todd: I and and which I think is good. I like that. It's the story, you know.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: But that line in here where it says It says God appeared to Abraham, said, I'll give this land to you and your children. Then Abraham built an altar at the place God had appeared to him. And he moved on from there to the
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: hill country, and he built an altar there and prayed to God. And then it says Abraham or
Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. I was gonna ask you about this.
Todd: Abram kept moving, steadily making his way south to the Negev. And that was what stuck with me was that Abraham kept moving. You
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: know, when you go into to to something that God calls you to, one of the things you don't expect is the famine. That's gonna hit 'cause you're in God's will. Why why you do why am I going to where you want me to go? And then there's a famine. And it was the famine that drove him to like we like to
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Sure.
Todd: expect that that it's not gonna be as hard as it is. It's always harder. It's always more challenging. And
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, if it's God's will it's gonna be a smooth trip, right? I know. But it's what we think Right. But
Todd: But that's not ever the experience. Like you're more likely to think, My God, everything's gotten impossible. I must be in the middle of God's will. Do you know what I mean?
Yo, it's Carrie: our expectations when we w head out on a journey is exactly that that that it'll be sweet. Everything's gonna be easy, yep.
Todd: Yeah. Okay, well I'm gonna obey and then everything's gonna be easy. No it's way wor it's so much harder.
Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, so he kept moving. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Todd: He kept moving. I think that's important because sometimes that's all God's calling us to is just keep moving in the direction that He's called us. Through
Yo, it's Carrie: Yes.
Todd: it doesn't the famine doesn't make sense, but we keep going. It doesn't make sense we got to go to Egypt. It doesn't make sense that I gotta let Sarah go live in the palace, but I keep going and I keep moving because God has called me on this journey, on this adventure of a lifetime. And the one thing I gotta go do is just keep moving forward.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: Not get stuck in the past, not get stopped by the obstacles, not get stuck in the detours, just keep going. You know what I mean? And along
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Todd: the way, build altars everywhere you stop. He's leaving, he's leaving the message of God. Like, because everywhere
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: he goes, we're not talking about altars that can be easily knocked down. People know that someone was here worshiping. You know what I mean? He's leaving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right.
Todd: something behind that says, this is. He's a message about reality and a message about God. Everywhere he goes, he's shining that light. Does that make sense?
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. No, that's great. I was thinking about the altars, but it didn't occur to me that they would be left behind for other people to to come across and mm hmm.
Todd: There's these massive stone altars. In fact, I think they'll talk about how there the these altars will come up later that people come across these altars that Abraham built, or wells that Jacob dug, things like that that that lasted. You know what I mean? That that made it
Yo, it's Carrie: Right, right. Yeah.
Todd: make their way through the story.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And to me that's if you gotta lie about your wife, you gotta lie about your wife. You didn't want to, you didn't want there to be a holocaust and have to have Jews in your attic, but now there's Jews in your attic.
Yo, it's Carrie: But I I'm sorry, I just
Todd: I sound like Tucker Carlson. My god, there's Jews in my attic. Sorry guys.
Yo, it's Carrie: But Chad, you know, you pointed this out though, and and actually this highlights two such important things and that is worship and obedience.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Yo, it's Carrie: The altars and the moving where he where he tells you to go. Mm-hmm.
Todd: Yeah, that's how he did it. He kept moving
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: in worship and obedience. Hundred percent right in that.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. So like faith kinda like faith and ob faith and obedience or yeah.
Todd: Yeah. So how do you keep step out in faith? How do you keep moving in faith? You just do it. And then you worship along the way. And you trust
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yep. Just do it.
Todd: God along the way. And you follow God the whole way. You just
Yo, it's Carrie: Even if there's a famine and even if your wife is scooped up by the pharaoh.
Todd: You just keep trusting. And it seems like seems like God honored that. I would say.
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Todd: Abraham left a pretty good legacy. So we're just getting started.
Yo, it's Carrie: All right. I know, this is just the tip of the iceberg, everyone. Tune in next week. No, it's great. Thanks, Todd.
Todd: All right. I think we did good. Anything else, Gary? Are you you happy? We did a good job.
Yo, it's Carrie: No, I think that was great. I am happy. I wanted to touch on the two altars and like you wrapped it up with it, so I knew you were gonna say something
Todd: There we go. Perfect. All right guys. Thank you.
Yo, it's Carrie: about moving too. I knew it.
Todd: See, Carrie knows. She's been out of Carrie doesn't miss a single show. Case you wonder.
Yo, it's Carrie: It's a good it's a good message.
Todd: Unlike some of you. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you so much for joining us today,
Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I know. Go catch up.
Todd: guys. Todd's World dot net is where the books are at. Witness Leaves the Blue Away. Insurrections. Great. just anyway, some great books, great stories.
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah.
Todd: Log on there. send clips of us to to people. Comment on the show. We'd love to hear comments from you. Obviously, we'll talk about
Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, please.
Todd: on the front end on usually answer you if we get around if we see it. Sometimes things slip by but
Yo, it's Carrie: N now that we're into the real historical part of the Bible, maybe we'll get s we'll get some cop
Todd: Yeah. Okay, we can talk about this one. It actually happened. Okay.
Yo, it's Carrie: I'm just poking fun. I love it. Actually we appreciate the appreciate the listening
Todd: We do.
Yo, it's Carrie: and the sharing. Thank you.
Todd: All right, guys. Come back next week. Send clips
Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm.
Todd: to your friends. Recommend us to your friends because that's the only way we're gonna grow is if you tell people, listen, this this this show is like different, but there's something engaging and wildly entertaining about it. And somehow God works through it. We're as
Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. I know, he really does.
Todd: surprised as you.
Yo, it's Carrie: Sometimes, yes.
Todd: My god, there's Jews in the attic. All right, guys. Thanks. See ya next week.
Yo, it's Carrie: Thanks, Tod. Bye.
