WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.919
Quite a bit of breaking news to bring you it
2
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.120
cots down with the leader of Reform UK, Nigel Farage.
3
00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.320
We can bring in our deputy political editor at Sam
4
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:14.759
Coates to tell us more. Sam.
5
00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.719
I understand that Nigel Farrage is now facing an investigation
6
00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.960
by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards Daniel Greenberg. He was
7
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.800
asked to investigate a couple of weeks ago after news
8
00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.960
about the gift. As before UK have termed it from
9
00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:39.840
Christopher Harborn, a Tie based billionaire crypto investor, to Nigel
10
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.799
Farrage just before the twenty twenty for general election. Nigel
11
00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:47.679
Farrage and Reform UK have repeatedly said that that was
12
00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.439
a personal gift, that there were no strings attached and
13
00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.280
as such it didn't fall under the scope of donation
14
00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.119
because if it had been a donation for political purposes
15
00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.560
then he would have had to register it. Because it
16
00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.840
fell in the twelve month before the general election, he
17
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:06.640
argued that it was entirely a personal transfer of money, predominantly
18
00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:11.359
for his security. But opposition parties of all strikes piled
19
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.319
in and said that they felt that given that Nigel
20
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.719
ferrag was intimately involved with a political party had a
21
00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:22.719
history of politics for twenty five years, it was close
22
00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.040
to a general election, and that Christopher Harborne had given
23
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.400
to a number of political parties, including political parties run
24
00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.040
by Nigel Ferrag in the past. They felt that it
25
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.879
may well not qualify as a gift and could well
26
00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:39.319
be a donation that effectively they allege, had been kept secret.
27
00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.799
So this whole affair will now be looked at by
28
00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.400
Daniel Greenberg, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. So this is
29
00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.920
particularly significant when you consider the powers that the Parliamentary
30
00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:55.760
Commissioner for Standards has that includes the ability in the
31
00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.640
most severe cases. And I'm only talking theoretically about the
32
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:00.680
powers because we don't know what this will go. But
33
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.560
in theory, Daniel Greenberg, if he decides that any offense
34
00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.079
buying an MP is at the worst end, he could
35
00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.840
suspend them, and if that suspension is for more than
36
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.120
a particular period of time, then that MP could face
37
00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.520
a recall petition, which would mean a set number of
38
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:20.560
constituents could vote to remove them from Parliament, triggering a
39
00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:25.400
by election. So the potential consequences for this are severe.
40
00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.560
Reform UK and Nigel Frage have absolutely and repeatedly denied
41
00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:33.840
any wrongdoing. They said they went through the legality of
42
00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.199
this at the time in fine detail, that they believe
43
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.280
that the gift was a gift and that it fell
44
00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:45.479
outside of the scope of all parliamentary and political donating requirements.
45
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.439
So they will contest this vigorously. But we are now
46
00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.199
setting up for a big fight over this gift, which
47
00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.520
opponents call a donation, and whether or not it was
48
00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.840
done and declared it should have been declared under the.
49
00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:04.080
Sam Kates Thank you very much. Indeed, Sam Kates are
50
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.599
speaking to us there. We got over on the table.
51
00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:08.280
Now we've got a cam where we've got Paul kelsay.
52
00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:09.840
But I just wanted to talk to Beth off the
53
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:13.039
back of the line that Sam Coates just brought us
54
00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.360
about the gift financial parage because this has been I
55
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:19.960
guess attention has been growing on this, isn't it well?
56
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.960
We I interviewed Nigel Farage about this last week on Friday,
57
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:28.479
after the local election results had come in. You might
58
00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.840
remember he was due to speak at the BBC with
59
00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.879
Laura Cooonsburg on the Sunday morning and pulled out of
60
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.240
that interview and we had a very very tous exchange
61
00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.960
on this issue. When I was asking him as to
62
00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.879
why he did not declare the donation, he was very
63
00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:51.039
reluctant to answer questions. He said it was a waste
64
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.039
of space in terms of the questions being asked. He
65
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.800
said he had no doubt at all about the donation.
66
00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.599
He said that it was entirely personal, that he'd read
67
00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.439
the rules. He didn't think it should have been declared.
68
00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.680
This donation he got a few months before he became
69
00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:10.960
an MP. He got it, I think in the spring.
70
00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.000
It was five million pounds. It was from Christopher Harborne,
71
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.319
who is a crypto billionaire.
72
00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:17.480
He lives in Thailand.
73
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.160
He has subsequently donated several million pounds to reform. He
74
00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:28.120
was a donator to some of Nigel Faraj's previous incarnations
75
00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.319
in different political parties. So he is clearly a political donor.
76
00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.079
And Faraj said at the time, to me, it's not politically,
77
00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.279
it's purely personal. It's win in the rules, which I've
78
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.480
read carefully and had lawyers look over, it wasn't needed.
79
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.600
And when I said the rules also stated if in doubt,
80
00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.399
why don't you just declare?
81
00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.120
So why didn't you declare?
82
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.920
He was very toss about it and very irritated actually
83
00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.120
that the questions were being asked. But I think the
84
00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.160
fact that this has now emerged that he is under
85
00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.800
investigation and perhaps explains that because it is, as Son
86
00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:07.120
was saying, politically now very difficult for him. He is
87
00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.639
now under investigation. There could be big consequences in terms
88
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.800
of what happens to him in his seat depending on
89
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:21.360
the outcome of this investigation. So that perhaps explains why
90
00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:21.720
he was.
91
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:22.639
Quite sensed about it.
92
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.040
I think we when we get the clip, we can
93
00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:25.879
play it out for you.
94
00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:28.040
Later walked out.
95
00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:30.879
He did walk out. He did walk out. He did
96
00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:31.759
walk out of the interview.
97
00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:33.279
Yep. I remember.
98
00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.319
It was one of those moments, wasn't it where it
99
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.519
was like, you say, the tempt you can cut the
100
00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:38.120
tension of the nine.
101
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.480
Yeah, it was. You know, look, it was a fair question.
102
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.480
If there is any doubt about the nature of the benefit.
103
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.560
The rules are you must register all current financial interests,
104
00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.079
any benefits other than earnings received in the twelve months
105
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.240
before an election within one month of your election. If
106
00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:03.000
there's any doubt the benefit, it should be registered. So honestly,
107
00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:07.759
I'm unsurprised that this has been referred and is under
108
00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:14.319
investigation given that Harborne is a political donor. Now, in
109
00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:18.800
fairness to Nigel Farage, his argument is that he is
110
00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:23.879
he needs a lot of security and that his argument
111
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.279
is that this five million pounds was given to him
112
00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.680
by Harborne, so to quote Nigel Farrage, he could have
113
00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.439
protection for the rest of his life and he said
114
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.439
it was personally for me to keep me personally safe.
115
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.240
But the issue is is he then became an MP,
116
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.040
and also as an MP he is entitled to and
117
00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.399
he actually is entitled and legally gets protection.
118
00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:55.279
From the authorities should he want that. But obviously he
119
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:56.240
has his own team.
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.919
Quite a bit of breaking news to bring you it
2
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.120
cots down with the leader of Reform UK, Nigel Farage.
3
00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.320
We can bring in our deputy political editor at Sam
4
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:14.759
Coates to tell us more. Sam.
5
00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.719
I understand that Nigel Farrage is now facing an investigation
6
00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.960
by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards Daniel Greenberg. He was
7
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.800
asked to investigate a couple of weeks ago after news
8
00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.960
about the gift. As before UK have termed it from
9
00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:39.840
Christopher Harborn, a Tie based billionaire crypto investor, to Nigel
10
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.799
Farrage just before the twenty twenty for general election. Nigel
11
00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:47.679
Farrage and Reform UK have repeatedly said that that was
12
00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.439
a personal gift, that there were no strings attached and
13
00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.280
as such it didn't fall under the scope of donation
14
00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.119
because if it had been a donation for political purposes
15
00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.560
then he would have had to register it. Because it
16
00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.840
fell in the twelve month before the general election, he
17
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:06.640
argued that it was entirely a personal transfer of money, predominantly
18
00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:11.359
for his security. But opposition parties of all strikes piled
19
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.319
in and said that they felt that given that Nigel
20
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.719
ferrag was intimately involved with a political party had a
21
00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:22.719
history of politics for twenty five years, it was close
22
00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.040
to a general election, and that Christopher Harborne had given
23
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.400
to a number of political parties, including political parties run
24
00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.040
by Nigel Ferrag in the past. They felt that it
25
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.879
may well not qualify as a gift and could well
26
00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:39.319
be a donation that effectively they allege, had been kept secret.
27
00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.799
So this whole affair will now be looked at by
28
00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.400
Daniel Greenberg, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. So this is
29
00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.920
particularly significant when you consider the powers that the Parliamentary
30
00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:55.760
Commissioner for Standards has that includes the ability in the
31
00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.640
most severe cases. And I'm only talking theoretically about the
32
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:00.680
powers because we don't know what this will go. But
33
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.560
in theory, Daniel Greenberg, if he decides that any offense
34
00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.079
buying an MP is at the worst end, he could
35
00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.840
suspend them, and if that suspension is for more than
36
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.120
a particular period of time, then that MP could face
37
00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.520
a recall petition, which would mean a set number of
38
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:20.560
constituents could vote to remove them from Parliament, triggering a
39
00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:25.400
by election. So the potential consequences for this are severe.
40
00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.560
Reform UK and Nigel Frage have absolutely and repeatedly denied
41
00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:33.840
any wrongdoing. They said they went through the legality of
42
00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.199
this at the time in fine detail, that they believe
43
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.280
that the gift was a gift and that it fell
44
00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:45.479
outside of the scope of all parliamentary and political donating requirements.
45
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.439
So they will contest this vigorously. But we are now
46
00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.199
setting up for a big fight over this gift, which
47
00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.520
opponents call a donation, and whether or not it was
48
00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.840
done and declared it should have been declared under the.
49
00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:04.080
Sam Kates Thank you very much. Indeed, Sam Kates are
50
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.599
speaking to us there. We got over on the table.
51
00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:08.280
Now we've got a cam where we've got Paul kelsay.
52
00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:09.840
But I just wanted to talk to Beth off the
53
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:13.039
back of the line that Sam Coates just brought us
54
00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.360
about the gift financial parage because this has been I
55
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:19.960
guess attention has been growing on this, isn't it well?
56
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.960
We I interviewed Nigel Farage about this last week on Friday,
57
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:28.479
after the local election results had come in. You might
58
00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.840
remember he was due to speak at the BBC with
59
00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.879
Laura Cooonsburg on the Sunday morning and pulled out of
60
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.240
that interview and we had a very very tous exchange
61
00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.960
on this issue. When I was asking him as to
62
00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.879
why he did not declare the donation, he was very
63
00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:51.039
reluctant to answer questions. He said it was a waste
64
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.039
of space in terms of the questions being asked. He
65
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.800
said he had no doubt at all about the donation.
66
00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.599
He said that it was entirely personal, that he'd read
67
00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.439
the rules. He didn't think it should have been declared.
68
00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.680
This donation he got a few months before he became
69
00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:10.960
an MP. He got it, I think in the spring.
70
00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.000
It was five million pounds. It was from Christopher Harborne,
71
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.319
who is a crypto billionaire.
72
00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:17.480
He lives in Thailand.
73
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.160
He has subsequently donated several million pounds to reform. He
74
00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:28.120
was a donator to some of Nigel Faraj's previous incarnations
75
00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.319
in different political parties. So he is clearly a political donor.
76
00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.079
And Faraj said at the time, to me, it's not politically,
77
00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.279
it's purely personal. It's win in the rules, which I've
78
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.480
read carefully and had lawyers look over, it wasn't needed.
79
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.600
And when I said the rules also stated if in doubt,
80
00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.399
why don't you just declare?
81
00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.120
So why didn't you declare?
82
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.920
He was very toss about it and very irritated actually
83
00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.120
that the questions were being asked. But I think the
84
00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.160
fact that this has now emerged that he is under
85
00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.800
investigation and perhaps explains that because it is, as Son
86
00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:07.120
was saying, politically now very difficult for him. He is
87
00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.639
now under investigation. There could be big consequences in terms
88
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.800
of what happens to him in his seat depending on
89
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:21.360
the outcome of this investigation. So that perhaps explains why
90
00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:21.720
he was.
91
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:22.639
Quite sensed about it.
92
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.040
I think we when we get the clip, we can
93
00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:25.879
play it out for you.
94
00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:28.040
Later walked out.
95
00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:30.879
He did walk out. He did walk out. He did
96
00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:31.759
walk out of the interview.
97
00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:33.279
Yep. I remember.
98
00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.319
It was one of those moments, wasn't it where it
99
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.519
was like, you say, the tempt you can cut the
100
00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:38.120
tension of the nine.
101
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.480
Yeah, it was. You know, look, it was a fair question.
102
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.480
If there is any doubt about the nature of the benefit.
103
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.560
The rules are you must register all current financial interests,
104
00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.079
any benefits other than earnings received in the twelve months
105
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.240
before an election within one month of your election. If
106
00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:03.000
there's any doubt the benefit, it should be registered. So honestly,
107
00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:07.759
I'm unsurprised that this has been referred and is under
108
00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:14.319
investigation given that Harborne is a political donor. Now, in
109
00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:18.800
fairness to Nigel Farage, his argument is that he is
110
00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:23.879
he needs a lot of security and that his argument
111
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.279
is that this five million pounds was given to him
112
00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.680
by Harborne, so to quote Nigel Farrage, he could have
113
00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.439
protection for the rest of his life and he said
114
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.439
it was personally for me to keep me personally safe.
115
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.240
But the issue is is he then became an MP,
116
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.040
and also as an MP he is entitled to and
117
00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.399
he actually is entitled and legally gets protection.
118
00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:55.279
From the authorities should he want that. But obviously he
119
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:56.240
has his own team.
