Scandoval

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NATALIE KATONA: Hi, everyone.
Thank you for checking out this
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week's episode. I wanted to jump
on and offer a small reminder of
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the ways that you can connect
with us. The first way is our
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socials. So we are men. I've
tolerated pod on Instagram and
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Natalie Kay 124 on TikTok. My
personal Instagram and you can
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find us on YouTube and Pinterest
under to all the men. I've
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tolerated before the second way
is by becoming a Patreon member.
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We are well on our way to our 25
member, Patreon where we are
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going to unlock bonus perks to
being a patron member. Shout out
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to all of our existing patrons
as an independently ran and
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funded podcast, your support
means everything. Another way
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that you can connect with us is
making sure to subscribe and
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leave comments wherever you can
so we can start reading reviews
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on each podcast episode.
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Thank you so much for being
here. Make sure to check out the
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Merch store and we will see you
next week.
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Hey Tolerator, this is to all
the men I've tolerated before
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with Aunt Le Katona. Your
weekly. Look at everyday
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misogyny. I am barely holding my
shit together because do you
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know who's back today? It's
Annie Spoiler alert.
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ANNIE SIEG: She's back almost
every day.
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NATALIE KATONA: Spoiler alert.
Should she leave? I am taking to
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the woods and never coming back
and she's here because there was
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drama and there was rumblings in
our reality TV universe. I love
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Vanderpump Rules. One of our
favorite shows. So why would I
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not have Annie talk to me about
the misogyny That is Tom
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Sandoval. That then cause scan
of all.
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ANNIE SIEG: Like this is a
really full circle moment
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because if I'm not mistaken, I
was on the podcast with you.
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Like right when the first
whisperings of scan of all were
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breaking, we were like, what is
this? What is happening? How
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dramatic and then now like as
the final reunions have finished
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airing, it's all just wrapping
up, put a little button on it
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and see how, how far we've gone
in this time.
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NATALIE KATONA: For those of you
who don't spend copious amounts
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of time watching other people
scream at one another and then
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call it Television. Vanderpump
Rules is the beautiful spin off
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of the Real Housewives of
Beverly Hills where it followed
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the restaurant in employees in
quotation marks of Lisa
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Vanderpump and her restaurant
sir.
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And for 11 years, it feels like
because COVID is a monster and I
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just lump it into one year
instead of three. I have known
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these people who I believe are
still in their early twenties
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and then one day I wake up and
I'm like, no, you're 40 you're
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not like you're 40.
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ANNIE SIEG: And the fact.
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That Tom has been lying about
his age this entire time is
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hilarious. From what I
understand. He's actually 42 and
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has been saying 39. It's just
funny.
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NATALIE KATONA: Funny, funny.
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But Tom Sandoval of Vander Pump
Rules fame.
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ANNIE SIEG: Vander. Fuck Pump.
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NATALIE KATONA: Yeah.
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Yeah. Vander Pug.
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He is a Vander Pug. So Tom
Sandoval cheated on his longtime
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life partner Ariana Maddox. And
even if you've never watched
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Vanderpump Rules before, your
life was changed through
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tectonic plates shifted.
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ANNIE SIEG: It was monumental.
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NATALIE KATONA: There were
people who are like, I can't
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talk to my friends anymore
because I do not know who
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Kristen Doty is.
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ANNIE SIEG: I mean, I will say
if nothing else good came of
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this and I think several good
things have actually come from
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this trash bag of a situation.
But just the fact that Kristen
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Doty has been brought back into
everyday conversations. It's all
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worth it because she is truly my
queen.
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NATALIE KATONA: I love it
because my step mom and I'm
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like, and Kristen is coming
back. She's like who wants to
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watch Kristen? And I'm like me.
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ANNIE SIEG: Everyone also, I
have never related harder to a
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story arc than a character being
such a nightmarish drunk, train
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wreck, garbage person that she
had to disappear and then return
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as a physically heavier witch.
Oh, yeah, she came back and was
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like I no longer have eating
disorder and I do have a bag
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full of crystals and that is, I
could not think of a better
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future for her. That's
beautiful.
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NATALIE KATONA: If anything
Kristen Doty's story art is what
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this podcast is all about. And
it's when you remove yourself
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from toxic men, you become a
witch and then learn to thrive.
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That's what Taylor Swift did
with folklore.
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ANNIE SIEG: We'll see, we'll see
he's drawn back to the toxic men
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like a magnet every time. So
we'll see what Nazi she's dating
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next week. But for right now
she's doing good.
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She's doing ok.
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NATALIE KATONA: First up, I want
to start this conversation with
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saying that I always knew that
Tom Shortz sucked and everyone
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else thought he was a puppy.
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ANNIE SIEG: Ok. I'm sorry, not
everyone, not everyone because I
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will say I was a Sandoval
apologist. I don't like that
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about myself, but it's true. I
was like, oh, I like that. He's
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not embarrassed by how horrible
he is. Like, it's cute that he
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wears sparkle pants to like
funerals.
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Like that's great for him. But I
have never been a Schwartz
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apologist because that man is, I
know that that gatekeeping and
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not gatekeeping, the gas light
has become like a very overused
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phrase, but look it up in the
dictionary and there's just a
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picture of Schwartz.
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He is the most nightmarish
boyfriend in the like, nice guys
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finish last kind of way. It
truly makes me sick. To my
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stomach. Katie deserves, I don't
know, like a Nobel Peace Prize
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for surviving that marriage.
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NATALIE KATONA: And he honestly
like perfected that form of gas
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lighting that Tom Sandoval was
trying to do all along except
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for Tom Sandoval loves to yell
at women.
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ANNIE SIEG: He does.
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But I think Schwartz kind of
does too. I think the men of
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Vanderpump Rules love screaming
in the face of a woman. And part
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of the thing that people don't
understand about why scan the
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ball got so big is that it feels
like finally they crossed a line
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so massive and got caught.
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So red handed that the women got
to just like rage out and we
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finally get to see after seasons
of watching these absolute trash
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men act like absolute trash men.
We get to see the women be like,
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well, guess what? I'm gonna make
a million dollars selling
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t-shirts about what a piece of
shit you are. It's the only good
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version of capitalism.
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NATALIE KATONA: It truly is. But
I, I keep saying I was like my
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favorite part of Sandoval is
that Tom Sandoval probably
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really thought that he was gonna
get a lot of attention and
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instead everyone else is making
more money than him.
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ANNIE SIEG: Yeah. Yeah.
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Well, what's wild is that? It's
easy to look at this and be
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like, oh my God, Tom and Raquel,
how did you possibly think that
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this was gonna go well for you?
But the reason he could possibly
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think that is because it did go
well for him one time. Like he
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actually pulled off this exact
ruse before he was with Kristen.
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He was hooking up with Ariana.
He slid into her D MS or did
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whatever he did while she was
vulnerable because like, her dad
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had just died. He, he goes after
vulnerable women while he's
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already in a relationship and
then denies that there's overlap
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and then just transitions into
another long term relationship
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that he will eventually cheat
on.
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He has done it and it has worked
on TV. He's gotten away. Miami
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Girl happened and he still had
the good guy reputation on TV.
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So I do understand how he
thought that he could just make
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Ariana the new Kristen and make
Raquel the new Ariana. But like
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you're 42 sir, sir, sir, 40 two
years old, sir.
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NATALIE KATONA: Are you ok?
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ANNIE SIEG: You're, I think it's
cool at any age. But like, no,
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as.
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NATALIE KATONA: You were
explaining that I was like, I
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wonder what the key difference
is and the key difference is, is
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that Kristen was going through
her manic era. So she was
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already the girl who was
throwing drinks and getting
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slapped by Stasi and screaming
at everybody.
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And so when Tom Sandoval was
like, I just wanna hook up with
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that like cool quiet chick in
the bar, people are like, yeah,
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that's probably a safer choice
than Kristen. Krystal is
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probably gonna kill you in the
middle of the night when he was
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like, our relationship was bad.
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ANNIE SIEG: I wanna be in this
one. We were all like, yeah. Ok.
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You shouldn't have overlapped
it. But I can see why you didn't
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want that relationship and then
he tried to do it with Ariana.
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But Ariana was a good
girlfriend. The thing they keep
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pointing to is like, well, it's
kind of on her for not, for, for
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believing us when we lied to her
is more proof that she was a
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good girlfriend despite
everything.
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She was like, you're telling me
nothing's happening. You're my
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partner, I'm believing you and
I'm defending you. So she wasn't
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gonna give him the kind of
ammunition that Kristen would,
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he kind of screwed himself over
by transitioning onto an
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actually good kind person. No
offense to my girl, Kristen,
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love her to death. But like I
think even she would admit at
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this point she was unwell at
that time.
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NATALIE KATONA: She was unwell.
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ANNIE SIEG: You would not be fun
girlfriend to have also.
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NATALIE KATONA: I think so scan
of all his years in the main
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because Tom's never been a good
boyfriend to Ariana.
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ANNIE SIEG: Now, do you remember
when I don't remember what
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traumatic thing had happened to
her? But she was really upset
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and was crying and he was like,
I just want you to know I'll
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always be there for you. And she
was like, I, I really appreciate
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that and he went, but Jack's
rented monster trucks and said
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we can drive.
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I'm gonna leave now.
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NATALIE KATONA: Oh, I know
exactly what was going on.
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It was Ariana's birthday and she
has birthday trauma. Like I do
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not because my dad died but
because of Christmas. So she has
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birthday trauma because every
year on her birthday, her dad
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would be like, you are the most
beautiful gift and every year
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with you is a present and he
would say these really nice
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things and now he's dead and.
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ANNIE SIEG: He was like, and
that is sad. But Jack's rented
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monster trucks.
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So why?
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NATALIE KATONA: And they were
like big Tonka trucks in Vegas.
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He goes, I wanna go to Vegas.
No, you're not invited.
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ANNIE SIEG: Yes, I will cheat on
you again while I'm there.
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Dad is dead.
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NATALIE KATONA: And I'm going to
make short watch me scoop up
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dirt with a Tonka truck. That's
life size.
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ANNIE SIEG: I Ariana at one
point in one of the various
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times that they had her talk
about all this made such a good
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point, which is that at the time
that she fell in love with Tom,
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he was absolutely nothing. He
was on Vanderpump Rules but it
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was very early days. The show
did not have much of a
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following.
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He, he was not making very much
money. He was still working at
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that restaurant. He had, he
shaved his forehead and was
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embarrassing in every possible
way and drove like a normal ass
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car and she was like, I like
this nerd. I'm into it.
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I'm signing up for this Raquel,
it was signing up for whatever
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weird complex illusion he's been
putting his money towards the
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band that he's entirely
financing the Fancy clothes,
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the, all the bullshit she was
signing on for like Roundy's
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brand David Bowie. It's a
different, it's a different
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situation.
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It's a different situation.
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NATALIE KATONA: And I think that
Tom does a real with the, with
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the vulnerable women in the
cast, the women who aren't going
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to like, call him on his
bullshit because they've known
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him too long.
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So if you take out Stasi Kristen
La La and Katie, these people
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were like, no, we know your
patterns and we've got your
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number and you look at the Billy
The Ariana, the rls, the
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Charlie's all of it. He's really
good at making you believe that
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he's a really great friend to
have around.
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ANNIE SIEG: He reminds me of
when I was in the dance world, I
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used to teach dance and I went
to like a training seminar that
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00:12:35,369 --> 00:12:37,820
was like all the dance teachers
at different levels and it was
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00:12:37,830 --> 00:12:38,989
like very intimidating.
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00:12:39,380 --> 00:12:44,530
And a friend of mine's boyfriend
who was also, they, they both
224
00:12:44,539 --> 00:12:47,000
worked in the same company came
and sat next to me and it was
225
00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:49,179
like the first one I've ever
been to, I was really nervous
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and he like, sat by me and was
really nice and was being like,
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00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:54,510
you know, I was insecure about
these things when I was first
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00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,880
started, just like, super
supportive.
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00:12:55,890 --> 00:12:57,789
And I remember being like,
that's so nice that he's not
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00:12:57,799 --> 00:13:00,979
like being like creepy and
lecturers about it. And then as
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00:13:00,989 --> 00:13:04,140
the years went by, I was like,
oh, he's sitting next to every
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00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:07,690
girl at her first one of these
and being comforting and being
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supportive and like, that's
actually not a green flag.
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00:13:11,869 --> 00:13:15,179
That's not that men can't be
nice and supportive, but he very
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clearly was cosying up to
whoever was new and young and
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insecure and female. And a few
years later, it came out that he
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was having affairs with any of
the girls who were responsive to
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that.
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And I just feel like that,
that's a very specific brand of
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man who takes on the persona
like, like Sheena talking about
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how when she first started, no
one wanted to red carpet
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00:13:37,869 --> 00:13:40,119
pictures with her that he would
be like you're part of the group
243
00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:42,929
and would bring her in. They're
doing nice things. They're being
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inclusive, they're being
supportive, but it is a very
245
00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:50,020
thinly veiled agenda behind all
of it.
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00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:54,289
NATALIE KATONA: I have started
to call them the nice guys with
247
00:13:54,299 --> 00:13:58,679
bad intentions because they're
nice, but they're only nice
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00:13:58,690 --> 00:14:02,429
because eventually you will want
to take your clothes off for
249
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,030
them or stick up to the for them
and for your girlfriend when
250
00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:09,479
your girlfriend is like, did you
have sex with Miami Girl?
251
00:14:09,489 --> 00:14:12,900
Sheena's like, I, I just really
couldn't see it now. Could you,
252
00:14:12,969 --> 00:14:19,869
Sheena should honestly, Sheena,
Ariana and James. I'm like all
253
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,460
three of you are this trifecta
of hurt people that should just
254
00:14:23,469 --> 00:14:24,450
be upset.
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00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:28,320
ANNIE SIEG: I, I think Sheena is
very upset. I think that she's
256
00:14:28,330 --> 00:14:32,419
processing that grief pretty
thoroughly. But I think that
257
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:36,239
the, I, one of my Vanderpump
theories is that Sheena has
258
00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:38,776
always been in will always be
the fundamental heart of the
259
00:14:38,786 --> 00:14:41,346
show. She is the linchpin
whether people like it or not.
260
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She's the reason they got the
show because she was being an
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00:14:43,616 --> 00:14:47,695
Eddie Hety Cyprian and she will
always be the through line.
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00:14:47,705 --> 00:14:50,005
I can't believe they tried to
like bring her down to basically
263
00:14:50,015 --> 00:14:53,005
friend up because she is the
root of it. And I think it
264
00:14:53,015 --> 00:14:58,892
really showed in the scan of all
of it all because she, she is so
265
00:14:58,901 --> 00:15:03,281
authentically, genuinely caring
about these people. Like she was
266
00:15:03,291 --> 00:15:07,492
going to Tom's embarrassing
shows. She was going to Raquel's
267
00:15:07,502 --> 00:15:08,642
beauty pageant.
268
00:15:08,651 --> 00:15:13,452
She is genuinely so close with
Ariana. She's like a legitimate
269
00:15:13,461 --> 00:15:17,411
friend and to her, obviously,
this is a show, obviously,
270
00:15:17,421 --> 00:15:21,281
there's all of that, but like
you can tell she's not faking
271
00:15:21,291 --> 00:15:23,901
how hurt she is by all of this.
She really cared about these
272
00:15:23,911 --> 00:15:29,380
people and it really stings
versus like I love la, la, La La
273
00:15:29,390 --> 00:15:31,080
has had Tom's number from the
jump.
274
00:15:31,090 --> 00:15:34,020
She's known from the jump and
she's been like, I don't like
275
00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:38,250
any of that and who she's close
with and not close with can vary
276
00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:40,760
a lot based on what's going on
with the show and all of that.
277
00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:44,460
She seems a lot more emotionally
detached again. Love her, want
278
00:15:44,469 --> 00:15:49,284
to date her. But Sheena just
feels if it's like exposed nerve
279
00:15:49,294 --> 00:15:52,075
at all times and I really
appreciate that from her.
280
00:15:52,104 --> 00:15:55,294
NATALIE KATONA: No, because when
Sandoval tried to go on a fake
281
00:15:55,304 --> 00:15:59,155
apology tour, one of the, they
closed the season out with him
282
00:15:59,164 --> 00:16:03,515
trying to explain it to Sheena
and Sheena being like, no, it's
283
00:16:03,525 --> 00:16:04,465
over.
284
00:16:05,429 --> 00:16:07,489
Don't get to be in my life
anymore.
285
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,500
ANNIE SIEG: And I'm like, yeah,
Sheena, tell him and then we'll
286
00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:13,530
all cry together the part of
that scene that I was the most
287
00:16:13,539 --> 00:16:15,929
proud of her for because I don't
know that I would have been
288
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:18,049
articulate enough in the moment,
especially with that much
289
00:16:18,059 --> 00:16:20,429
emotion behind it to have that
correct answer.
290
00:16:20,549 --> 00:16:23,549
But when he tried to
disgustingly throw around the
291
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:26,130
idea that he couldn't break up
with Ariana because her mental
292
00:16:26,140 --> 00:16:28,804
health and that she would kill
herself. The the fact that she
293
00:16:28,835 --> 00:16:31,875
is so immediately was like,
well, guess what, you know how
294
00:16:31,885 --> 00:16:35,945
to access me and her mom and her
siblings and we're clearly
295
00:16:35,955 --> 00:16:38,224
capable of picking up the mess
that you make.
296
00:16:38,234 --> 00:16:40,835
So if you really were afraid of
that, you would have done the
297
00:16:40,844 --> 00:16:42,905
right thing and had that
conversation and you would have
298
00:16:42,914 --> 00:16:46,804
had her support group ready to
come take over. So your excuse
299
00:16:46,815 --> 00:16:48,705
is bullshit. Oh, fuck yourself.
300
00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:52,390
NATALIE KATONA: The
weaponization of Ariana's mental
301
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:58,150
health I think has also been a
very present storyline for all
302
00:16:58,159 --> 00:17:01,929
of it because whenever Ariana,
like, couldn't hang or whatever,
303
00:17:01,940 --> 00:17:06,819
they'd be like, she's our mopey
friend and that's why our mopey
304
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:11,469
friend can't come out with us.
No talk of trunks for you. And
305
00:17:11,479 --> 00:17:16,964
she just be in the corner being
like, I have clinical depression
306
00:17:17,454 --> 00:17:18,234
also.
307
00:17:18,244 --> 00:17:21,385
ANNIE SIEG: She was, like,
viciously bullied by half the
308
00:17:21,395 --> 00:17:26,275
cast when she came in. She has
had suffered significant loss at
309
00:17:26,285 --> 00:17:30,535
regular intervals throughout the
show. And she spent a decade
310
00:17:30,545 --> 00:17:36,439
with Tom Sandoval. So like,
yeah. Yeah, I'd be sad too. I'd
311
00:17:36,449 --> 00:17:39,880
be having a hard time too. Can
you imagine the kind of fucked
312
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:42,479
up things he was probably saying
to her behind closed doors
313
00:17:42,489 --> 00:17:45,290
because of how manipulative and
narcissistic he is.
314
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,760
NATALIE KATONA: I, oh, we saw a
glimmer of it during the
315
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:53,859
reunion. When are, when Andy
asked Tom, were you having sex
316
00:17:53,869 --> 00:17:59,010
with anyone else besides Rappel?
And he's like, 000, and then
317
00:17:59,020 --> 00:18:02,589
Ariana is like, I'll tell you
who he was having sex with me
318
00:18:02,739 --> 00:18:06,349
and he went, yeah, she kept her
t-shirt on. It was real great
319
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,829
then just like pulling out her
body dysmorphia issues, which
320
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:14,699
she's also been very open about
you moron.
321
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,270
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah. Did you hear
that recently? He basically just
322
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,869
doubled down on that quote.
323
00:18:20,410 --> 00:18:24,040
And it was like, you know,
someone asked him about, I think
324
00:18:24,050 --> 00:18:27,140
tmz or something. And he
basically was like, well, no,
325
00:18:27,150 --> 00:18:29,729
it's not that I was shaming her
for her body. It's not about her
326
00:18:29,739 --> 00:18:32,209
body. It felt like how
unenthusiastic she was. It would
327
00:18:32,219 --> 00:18:34,260
be like if she wanted to have
sex with me and I just like
328
00:18:34,270 --> 00:18:36,660
unzip my pants and was like, ok,
go for it.
329
00:18:37,619 --> 00:18:42,349
I'm sorry, sir, you're
complaining that the woman who
330
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,640
you've been actively cheating on
isn't excited enough about
331
00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:47,619
jumping on your dick.
332
00:18:48,109 --> 00:18:52,099
Gee, I wonder why like, no, she
didn't know at that point but
333
00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:56,550
you, she has repeatedly said on
camera that you're never around
334
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,410
that she never sees you that
there's no affection. So the
335
00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:03,030
fact that she's having sex with
you at all at this point is like
336
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:03,839
slow clap Babe.
337
00:19:04,329 --> 00:19:06,160
NATALIE KATONA: She had a really
great quote.
338
00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:09,770
It was in Glamour or Vogue or
one of the many things she gets
339
00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:14,670
to do now because she is our
current queen and it was like,
340
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:17,750
they just wanna treat us like
sex toys that they can put
341
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:23,510
batteries into like I'm not and
I feel like that's a real great
342
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,349
way of just like Tom's misogyny
making him believe that like,
343
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,109
you know how Chris Pratt got hot
and then he's like he was, he
344
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,109
got hot and then overnight he
was like, I'm a hot boy.
345
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,630
I deserve a hot life.
346
00:19:38,239 --> 00:19:42,920
Well, Tom paid a bunch of dudes
to be in a rock band with him.
347
00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:47,180
And then when I'm a rock star. I
get to have a rock star life
348
00:19:47,189 --> 00:19:51,410
while he's covering eighties.
Like one offs.
349
00:19:51,550 --> 00:19:52,260
ANNIE SIEG: The thing that.
350
00:19:52,270 --> 00:19:54,410
I keep coming back to with all
of this scandal all at this
351
00:19:54,420 --> 00:20:00,540
point because we've all like,
analyzed it half to death is Tom
352
00:20:00,550 --> 00:20:05,719
is fascinating in how awful he
is. But he's also really quite
353
00:20:05,729 --> 00:20:06,260
simple.
354
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,579
It's just about him. Everything
just boils down to his ego. He
355
00:20:10,589 --> 00:20:14,469
doesn't love Raquel. He loves
that. A young beauty queen was
356
00:20:14,479 --> 00:20:17,939
paying attention to him and
touching a stick. Congrats. He,
357
00:20:17,949 --> 00:20:21,160
he's just a classic narcissist.
But if I may pivot the
358
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:25,250
conversation, what I am
interested in what the fuck
359
00:20:25,569 --> 00:20:26,699
Raquel's deal is.
360
00:20:26,709 --> 00:20:30,270
NATALIE KATONA: So I have, it's
point D on my outline and it
361
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,550
literally just says Rel and all
that is her darkness because
362
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,859
that's the term we've been using
with Rel like, oh, this is too
363
00:20:37,869 --> 00:20:42,219
dark. I'm almost uncomfortable,
but I will tune in forever
364
00:20:42,750 --> 00:20:43,040
ahead.
365
00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:44,699
ANNIE SIEG: If you have an
outline, I can stick to the
366
00:20:44,709 --> 00:20:45,540
outline.
367
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:49,030
NATALIE KATONA: I, I just, I
just bounced along but I wanted
368
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,189
to let you know that I used our
terminology for Rotel. It's dark
369
00:20:53,199 --> 00:20:53,400
if.
370
00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:57,790
ANNIE SIEG: The trouble with her
is that she does appear to be
371
00:20:58,130 --> 00:21:02,829
very stupid. Yet. A lot of the
things that she does seem very
372
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:05,849
conniving and manipulative in a
way that you would think a
373
00:21:05,859 --> 00:21:11,109
stupid person wouldn't think of
like I keep going back to the,
374
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,839
the final five minutes of the
last episode where it's her
375
00:21:13,849 --> 00:21:16,000
coming back and being like, now
I want to tell some truth, but
376
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:20,349
still not all the truth. And I
keep being like, what was she
377
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:20,829
thinking?
378
00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:24,869
Like, did she tell Tom she was
gonna do that? Did she tell him
379
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,790
afterwards? Was he finding out
with the rest of the cast? Did
380
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,290
she think that this would get
her back on the show? And then I
381
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:33,910
keep coming back to like, did
she think anything or was she
382
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,849
just like, I guess I'll do this
now? Like, what's, is there a,
383
00:21:37,859 --> 00:21:41,380
is there a genius plan happening
there or is she just sort of
384
00:21:41,829 --> 00:21:46,130
stumbling along and then seeing
what happens?
385
00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:49,000
NATALIE KATONA: Yeah, because
the final episode, the episode,
386
00:21:49,010 --> 00:21:53,359
episode and not the reunions
where she's trying to talk to
387
00:21:53,369 --> 00:21:58,310
Tom about their relationship and
their affair. I texted people, I
388
00:21:58,319 --> 00:22:03,859
was like, it's painful watching
Rael try to piece together
389
00:22:03,869 --> 00:22:09,510
sentences about the complexities
of fucking your friend's
390
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,520
boyfriend behind her back.
391
00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:13,760
ANNIE SIEG: But I think some of
the things that she said also
392
00:22:13,770 --> 00:22:18,959
really did reveal the ways that
Sandoval manipulated her
393
00:22:18,969 --> 00:22:22,380
specifically, like when she has
her breakdown and finally admits
394
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:23,680
that they hooked up in the hot
tub.
395
00:22:24,819 --> 00:22:28,880
The way that she phrases it is
that they, they wanted to get
396
00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:31,579
their story straight on that
because Tom really felt like it
397
00:22:31,589 --> 00:22:34,180
wasn't a good look to hook up
with your friend's boyfriend
398
00:22:34,189 --> 00:22:37,339
while she's out of town for a
funeral. The you in that
399
00:22:37,349 --> 00:22:38,900
situation is Raquel.
400
00:22:38,910 --> 00:22:42,160
He's not saying it's, it's a bad
look for us to do this or it's a
401
00:22:42,170 --> 00:22:45,939
bad look for me to cheat on my
girlfriend with her. He's, he's
402
00:22:45,949 --> 00:22:49,099
saying it's a bad look for you.
Someone who has spent her entire
403
00:22:49,109 --> 00:22:52,680
life so obsessed with how she is
perceived, who is in the pageant
404
00:22:52,689 --> 00:22:55,459
world, who has completely lost a
sense of identity.
405
00:22:56,069 --> 00:22:59,479
The message of that's a really
bad look, especially when you
406
00:22:59,489 --> 00:23:05,339
are on a TV. Show is a pretty
powerful way to control someone.
407
00:23:05,349 --> 00:23:09,390
And it also shows again she's
not, not to be a dick, but
408
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,270
she's, she's not a bright gal
and I don't think she's the kind
409
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,790
of person who would hear someone
say that and go well, it's not a
410
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,310
good look for you either, Tom,
like there's two of us.
411
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:20,810
I think she would just be like,
oh, you're right. They will hate
412
00:23:20,819 --> 00:23:24,189
me. I guess it'll be a secret
forever because she's Bambi.
413
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:27,739
NATALIE KATONA: She is the fact
that after she broke up with
414
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:31,170
James, they were even like, Sure
Rockel, maybe you will do
415
00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:35,869
something for this season. And
even the way because sometimes
416
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:42,180
I'm like, did Sandoval craft her
entire season because the way
417
00:23:42,189 --> 00:23:47,180
that she, because in the
original finale, Katie and Rael
418
00:23:47,189 --> 00:23:50,020
have this fight in the alley
that I just don't think got
419
00:23:50,030 --> 00:23:53,560
enough play because of scandal
all because we knew it didn't
420
00:23:53,569 --> 00:23:54,099
matter.
421
00:23:54,530 --> 00:24:00,579
And so, and Rael is just like
Katie and Katie is like, what I
422
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:06,650
I just think that when you talk
shorts about the dogs and how
423
00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:10,459
you'll take the dogs, it's mean.
And that's like rock. He trying
424
00:24:10,469 --> 00:24:12,890
to be like confronting.
425
00:24:13,719 --> 00:24:16,510
ANNIE SIEG: Also sounds so much
like a message that Sandoval
426
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,790
would hand her because Sandoval
has so many gripes with Katie
427
00:24:19,859 --> 00:24:24,819
and they all boil down to, he is
Schwartz's keeper and feels that
428
00:24:24,829 --> 00:24:26,989
he should get to decide how
everything goes with Schwartz.
429
00:24:27,209 --> 00:24:29,160
And that's the reason why he and
Katie could never get along
430
00:24:29,170 --> 00:24:32,444
because while she was married to
Schwartz, it was like a battle
431
00:24:32,454 --> 00:24:35,935
for who gets to boss him around
and they didn't agree. And Tom
432
00:24:35,944 --> 00:24:38,984
loves screaming at women. So it
just turned into that.
433
00:24:38,994 --> 00:24:43,064
But the idea that Katie needs to
get put in her place over
434
00:24:43,074 --> 00:24:46,204
custody of her dogs and her
divorce sounds exactly like the
435
00:24:46,214 --> 00:24:49,114
kind of weird random petty shit
that Tom loves to scream at her
436
00:24:49,125 --> 00:24:52,089
about and yet it's coming
through the puppet that is
437
00:24:52,099 --> 00:24:55,079
Raquel in order to have some
drama and be on screen and she's
438
00:24:55,089 --> 00:24:58,739
just like t like tapping her
fingers together just being like
439
00:24:58,750 --> 00:25:03,949
I've been told to tell you that
you can't text shorts about us
440
00:25:03,959 --> 00:25:08,430
kissing, we liked kissing and,
but that's where it gets
441
00:25:08,439 --> 00:25:11,050
interesting again because I can
look at something like that and
442
00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:14,270
be like that is just Sandoval
trying to get her interesting
443
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,890
camera time trying to manipulate
things.
444
00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:19,810
But then you look at something
like her wandering into that
445
00:25:19,819 --> 00:25:22,459
meeting with Lisa and being
like, I slept at Schwartz's
446
00:25:22,469 --> 00:25:27,040
house and it's like there's no
way he told her to share that on
447
00:25:27,050 --> 00:25:30,969
camera and she dumb. But is she
that dumb?
448
00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:35,890
I feel like what happened was
that they were together way back
449
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,530
in the Rachelle days that they,
when, when he talks about how
450
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:42,959
there was this like long pause
and everyone's like, how is that
451
00:25:42,969 --> 00:25:45,589
even possible in this timeline?
I think that's what he's talking
452
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:48,000
about and just not wanting to
clear up the details because
453
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:48,689
it's bad.
454
00:25:48,829 --> 00:25:51,650
I think they hooked up way back
in the Rachel days and that
455
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:53,640
there was a pause because they
were both in relation
456
00:25:53,696 --> 00:25:56,985
relationships and that the deal
was we're gonna break up with
457
00:25:56,995 --> 00:25:59,095
our partners and we'll space
that out a little. So it's not
458
00:25:59,105 --> 00:26:02,816
suspicious and then we'll be
together and she left James and
459
00:26:02,826 --> 00:26:04,836
then he kept not leaving Ariana.
460
00:26:04,906 --> 00:26:09,076
So I think that she was
manipulative enough to bring it
461
00:26:09,086 --> 00:26:13,515
up on camera, but stupid enough
to not see what a bad idea that
462
00:26:13,526 --> 00:26:17,235
was in terms of managing the
story, which honestly sounds
463
00:26:17,245 --> 00:26:22,052
like beauty pageant cult where
it's like we're saying things to
464
00:26:22,062 --> 00:26:25,131
be mean about one another, but
we all don't have like the
465
00:26:25,141 --> 00:26:28,862
vocabulary to make it like stick
and then the idea of trying to
466
00:26:28,871 --> 00:26:33,121
maintain her image both on the
show and for Tom, that it's
467
00:26:33,131 --> 00:26:36,021
like, oh, I was just telling her
why I was late.
468
00:26:36,031 --> 00:26:39,871
I didn't know. And it's like,
well, you did kind of know
469
00:26:39,881 --> 00:26:41,582
you're going to go have a
meeting with Lisa and just
470
00:26:41,592 --> 00:26:44,901
casually drop the fact that you
were sleeping at Tom's house.
471
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:48,650
We all know Lisa is constantly
looking for a reason to be
472
00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:50,089
relevant on her own show.
473
00:26:50,099 --> 00:26:53,670
NATALIE KATONA: Come on and now
Ken, who hasn't said anything in
474
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,030
a decade on the show has to be
trotted out of his nap into the
475
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:04,010
kitchen to be like Katie Tom and
Ariana had a sleepover.
476
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:06,530
ANNIE SIEG: My favorite thing
about that is that generally in
477
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:10,689
reality TV, the audience, at
least a, a media literate
478
00:27:10,699 --> 00:27:13,930
audience who's tuned into the
reality world can usually smell
479
00:27:13,939 --> 00:27:17,020
out a scripted scene pretty
well. And as soon as that scene
480
00:27:17,030 --> 00:27:20,020
happened, normally that enrages
an audience, we go like this was
481
00:27:20,030 --> 00:27:20,489
scripted.
482
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:23,550
I'm mad. That scene, every
single person who watched it
483
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,619
went ok. So that was scripted
and I could eat it up with a
484
00:27:27,630 --> 00:27:32,910
spoon. Give me more, Ken, give
him an Emmy, give him a grammy.
485
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,869
Give him an Oscar K needs to ego
for that scene because he just
486
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,510
was so unconvincing that it was
endearing.
487
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,300
NATALIE KATONA: Well, and I
think, I think what it is is
488
00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:46,910
because we're only used to
seeing Ken holding a small
489
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,150
puppy. So like in our heads,
we're like, Ken is puppy
490
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:51,900
bringer.
491
00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:55,119
ANNIE SIEG: So we're excited
whenever we see Ken in the
492
00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:58,819
background and when I try and
visualize him, do you remember
493
00:27:58,829 --> 00:28:00,969
those anor books where a person
turns into?
494
00:28:01,670 --> 00:28:06,150
He, he is the final stage and
Jiggy is the other side of the,
495
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,930
he and Jiggy are one and you can
see the stages between them in
496
00:28:09,939 --> 00:28:13,089
your mind. But it's like he's
carrying his own avatar. It's
497
00:28:13,099 --> 00:28:13,709
very.
498
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,229
It's very odd.
499
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,589
Yeah. And I know it's not,
actually Jiggy. Jiggy is dead.
500
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:22,709
Whatever puffy pink dog,
whatever the current Alopecia
501
00:28:22,719 --> 00:28:22,939
pet.
502
00:28:22,949 --> 00:28:25,199
NATALIE KATONA: Is, they should
have just named it Jiggy. I know
503
00:28:25,209 --> 00:28:27,709
that they want to have done that
because I do actually believe
504
00:28:27,719 --> 00:28:31,500
that they love their pets and
their animals, but like, no one
505
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:34,550
would have known, we all would
have thought that Jiggy had in
506
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,670
fact lived for 70 years.
507
00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:39,930
ANNIE SIEG: I, there is some
sort of supernatural thing
508
00:28:39,939 --> 00:28:42,849
happening between Ken and the
dogs. I would say that he is
509
00:28:42,859 --> 00:28:46,199
somehow feasting off of their
souls, but he's clearly not
510
00:28:46,209 --> 00:28:49,300
eating well if that's the case.
So I don't know what's going on,
511
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:51,959
but there's, there's a spiritual
bond there and I respect it.
512
00:28:52,699 --> 00:28:54,869
NATALIE KATONA: So I think the
last five minutes of the last
513
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,650
finale is because Rael, someone
finally like, took her, I was
514
00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:04,760
like, hey, he doesn't give a
fuck about you because where is
515
00:29:04,770 --> 00:29:05,359
he?
516
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:09,780
And then she was like, oh, I
guess boyfriends do hang out
517
00:29:09,790 --> 00:29:14,089
with their girlfriends and she
went to that interview all upset
518
00:29:14,099 --> 00:29:16,630
about that and the producer was
like, we're just asking her
519
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,119
about other stuff this season
and all of a sudden she's crying
520
00:29:20,189 --> 00:29:22,760
and just be like, I have other
things to say.
521
00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:27,000
ANNIE SIEG: I think that the
beginning of the end for Tom, in
522
00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:32,680
terms of having Raquel tow the
line was, he clearly didn't
523
00:29:32,689 --> 00:29:36,420
understand that she could hear
the first part of the reunion
524
00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:39,300
from the trailer because when he
comes in to have his little
525
00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:41,969
hissy fit at her, he says
something about they're saying
526
00:29:41,979 --> 00:29:44,420
this or they're doing that. And
she goes, I know I saw and he
527
00:29:44,430 --> 00:29:46,250
like, does a little pause and
it's like, right?
528
00:29:46,849 --> 00:29:52,189
And part of his manipulation is
he's orchestrating. Who gets
529
00:29:52,199 --> 00:29:55,569
what information, who hears what
version of what story? And I
530
00:29:55,579 --> 00:29:59,410
think he said some things
thinking Raquel wasn't gonna see
531
00:29:59,420 --> 00:30:02,800
it until months later when it
aired and instead she was seeing
532
00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:07,209
it in the moment and I think
that that both threw him off his
533
00:30:07,219 --> 00:30:11,209
game and made it harder for him
to balance his stories.
534
00:30:11,219 --> 00:30:14,300
And I think it planted the first
real seeds of doubt with her
535
00:30:14,709 --> 00:30:19,770
because he handled the Reune so
poorly. And then once she got
536
00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:23,449
out there, it just kind of kept
spiraling like there were, there
537
00:30:23,459 --> 00:30:25,650
was a scene where he's like
turning to her being like, what
538
00:30:25,660 --> 00:30:26,079
the fuck.
539
00:30:26,089 --> 00:30:29,739
Like why are you saying that?
And like he, he was losing his
540
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:32,709
grip on controlling her. They
asked about like, do you love
541
00:30:32,719 --> 00:30:36,390
each other and she's immediately
like, yeah, and he's like, and
542
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,579
then you see another little seed
of doubt is playing it with her.
543
00:30:38,589 --> 00:30:41,479
So I think that the reunion
started the idea that, like,
544
00:30:41,489 --> 00:30:44,719
this is not a good look for he,
this is the look that is not
545
00:30:44,729 --> 00:30:47,560
good. And then for him
immediately afterwards to be
546
00:30:47,569 --> 00:30:51,239
like, I'm gonna go off on tour
now and bang whatever.
547
00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:54,680
Absolutely deranged groupies
would still be into that.
548
00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:59,829
And she's, I guess gonna go to
an insane asylum. Like that's a
549
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:04,150
pretty harsh contrast and I just
can't wait till she busts her
550
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,089
way out of the loony bin with a
story to tell because.
551
00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:08,550
NATALIE KATONA: I want
postcards.
552
00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:12,699
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah, I wanna hear
what she's got to say. I want
553
00:31:12,709 --> 00:31:15,689
her to come out full girl
interrupted. I want her to have
554
00:31:15,699 --> 00:31:19,290
like shaved head and like prison
tattoos and I wanted to be like,
555
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:23,290
here's the faulty. Here is every
bit of information that you
556
00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:27,199
could possibly need. Here is all
of the records off my phone.
557
00:31:27,209 --> 00:31:30,880
Like, let's get into it and just
let the internet go wild.
558
00:31:30,890 --> 00:31:33,300
NATALIE KATONA: I would like to
get into how every woman who's
559
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:36,500
ever been on the show is in fact
a victim of the Toms.
560
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,910
ANNIE SIEG: It. Yeah, it's true.
Ok. Here's, here's a question.
561
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:47,510
Who is the, I don't know if evil
is, is the right word. Who's,
562
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,829
who's the most damaging
nightmare of a person? Jack's
563
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:53,739
Tom or Tom.
564
00:31:53,989 --> 00:31:56,660
NATALIE KATONA: You know, I hate
what, having to talk shit about
565
00:31:56,670 --> 00:31:59,520
Jack's because I'm like, at
least Jack has never lied to me
566
00:31:59,530 --> 00:32:01,189
about his intentions.
567
00:32:02,369 --> 00:32:06,099
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah. Well, he did
lie a lot but not about how much
568
00:32:06,109 --> 00:32:08,459
of a dirt bag he is. It is
pretty clear that he's a dirt
569
00:32:08,469 --> 00:32:14,469
bag. But I think we forget with
distance how bad Jax was.
570
00:32:14,479 --> 00:32:17,140
Like, I just was re-watching the
Miami Girl episode and he
571
00:32:17,150 --> 00:32:20,739
literally has a line in it where
he's like the thing about girls
572
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:23,290
is that they're weak and they
can be broken and you just have
573
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:25,790
to convince them that you're a
changed man and you're better
574
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,180
even though you're not and
they'll fall for it because it's
575
00:32:28,189 --> 00:32:31,099
what they wanna hear. Like he
literally says things like that,
576
00:32:31,219 --> 00:32:32,300
that man bad.
577
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:36,020
NATALIE KATONA: That man is bad.
You forget that on our original
578
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:37,900
reality TV show episode.
579
00:32:38,609 --> 00:32:42,469
I, I got blinded by the fact
that they were all married, they
580
00:32:42,479 --> 00:32:45,339
were all having kids and they
had all bought a house and I was
581
00:32:45,349 --> 00:32:48,310
like, they're good grownups now
and you were like, they're not
582
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:49,630
grown ups.
583
00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:53,040
ANNIE SIEG: I will say history
is on my side now.
584
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:56,920
They were not good grown ups.
None of them are good grown ups,
585
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,439
not good. And it is truly
shocking that it appears that
586
00:33:01,449 --> 00:33:03,770
Jack and Britney are the couple
that's standing the test of
587
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:06,630
time. But I have to assume it's
because at this point he has
588
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,390
broken her down. So thoroughly
that he can pretty much do
589
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,489
whatever she wants. And she just
goes like, oh, rot in hell and
590
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:17,579
just continue, just whispers
rotten hail to herself.
591
00:33:18,239 --> 00:33:20,619
Pop some pills or something. I
don't know. I don't know how
592
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:23,760
she's making it through life
with Jack. But I guess good for
593
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:27,979
them if they found something
that works point is we can't
594
00:33:27,989 --> 00:33:31,140
forget that while he has not
lied about what a monster he is
595
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:35,160
for the most part, he has just
told us what a monster he is to
596
00:33:35,170 --> 00:33:37,589
such a degree that it's hard to
not look at.
597
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:40,030
NATALIE KATONA: You didn't even
put James in the mix for the
598
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,300
biggest monster.
599
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:44,569
ANNIE SIEG: I know. But it's
because I can't, I know.
600
00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:50,819
I know. I know he's bad. I know
he's bad, you know, but he's a
601
00:33:50,829 --> 00:33:54,319
very endearing type of bed and I
know I know more and more bad
602
00:33:54,329 --> 00:33:56,060
stuff is gonna come out.
Everyone's like, and he's not
603
00:33:56,069 --> 00:33:58,739
endearing. He's awful. But I
think part of the reason it's
604
00:33:58,750 --> 00:34:02,479
hard to hate on James in
addition to him being funny is
605
00:34:02,489 --> 00:34:09,889
that we've seen his parents and
wolf wolf.
606
00:34:10,409 --> 00:34:13,729
NATALIE KATONA: Yeah, I, I would
truly like if everyone would
607
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:17,399
just hold off for like two more
weeks, I just really want James
608
00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:21,780
is wearing glasses now and I'm
enjoying that on his DJ journey
609
00:34:21,830 --> 00:34:25,199
as he's like tight roping the
crowds and telling people like
610
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:29,860
I'm not allowed to say in sir
anymore that Sandoval is a liar.
611
00:34:29,870 --> 00:34:35,419
But you can and just feeding the
crowd stuff, it's really hard to
612
00:34:35,429 --> 00:34:39,510
rank them because Jack says big
monster but he's loud. So you
613
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:46,669
know, to stay out of the forest
and then shorts is big bad, but
614
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:50,540
he's like goofy about it. And
he's like, but I'm not a bad
615
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:51,000
guy.
616
00:34:51,010 --> 00:34:55,879
And so I hate these men who are
just like silent abusers, like
617
00:34:55,889 --> 00:34:59,979
they're just waiting to like
abuse you when it's gonna look
618
00:34:59,989 --> 00:35:03,270
the best for them or when they
can spin it into not being
619
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,629
abused. And then Sandoval is the
fucking wolf in little Red
620
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:10,679
Riding Hood where he's just like
slinking in the woods just being
621
00:35:10,689 --> 00:35:12,010
like, hey, little girl.
622
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:14,709
Are you feeling sad today?
623
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,659
ANNIE SIEG: Well, ok, let's put
it this way. I, I am gonna
624
00:35:18,669 --> 00:35:21,929
dramatically reveal to you that
I'm dating one of the cast
625
00:35:21,939 --> 00:35:26,399
members of Vander Pink Rule. Are
you more upset if it's Jack
626
00:35:26,409 --> 00:35:29,260
Schwartz or Sandoval? Who are
you the most distraught to find
627
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:32,010
out that I'm in a long term
loving relationship with?
628
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,830
NATALIE KATONA: I'm the most
upset that it's not LA La. I
629
00:35:35,090 --> 00:35:38,090
think I'm the most upset with
shorts because of how it shaped
630
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:39,250
Katie's life.
631
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:42,129
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah, I did really
fuck her up for a long time.
632
00:35:42,659 --> 00:35:47,149
NATALIE KATONA: And that's
another way that her actual
633
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:51,959
experiences in her very toxic
abusive relationship and toxic
634
00:35:51,969 --> 00:35:56,550
abusive marriage has just become
a, she's so mopey. Wouldn't it
635
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,229
be great if she was fun? Why
would she be fun?
636
00:35:59,399 --> 00:36:02,580
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah, when you
really look at this most recent
637
00:36:02,590 --> 00:36:06,060
season and realized that the
real heart of the drama between
638
00:36:06,129 --> 00:36:10,020
the Toms and their significant
others this whole time was that
639
00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:14,169
these were two women who wanted
their boyfriends slash husbands
640
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:18,409
to spend time with them and not
cheat on them.
641
00:36:18,479 --> 00:36:20,919
That that's the, that's the
standard, that's the bar that
642
00:36:20,929 --> 00:36:25,169
was set and they were like these
unreasonable beasts. I need to
643
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:29,560
know to fuck anyone anytime and
never be home. Like it was the
644
00:36:29,570 --> 00:36:32,139
same thing for both of them. It
was, I never see you. You're
645
00:36:32,149 --> 00:36:36,360
blackout drunk and being very
shady with other people.
646
00:36:36,629 --> 00:36:37,830
I think Katie.
647
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,000
NATALIE KATONA: Gets it really
rough and these last two seasons
648
00:36:41,010 --> 00:36:45,489
should have been her like
Renaissance and instead we have
649
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,379
Scan of all and Ariana is going
through a Renaissance and
650
00:36:48,389 --> 00:36:50,610
they're both making money. So
I'm happy.
651
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,969
ANNIE SIEG: I wanna say
something possibly controversial
652
00:36:53,979 --> 00:36:56,449
because I know there's a lot of
Katie love right now and don't
653
00:36:56,459 --> 00:37:00,219
get me wrong. I love Katie. I
support Katie. However, I think
654
00:37:00,229 --> 00:37:04,919
that the universe gave her a
gift with Scandi all in that.
655
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,610
The world was not ready to rally
behind Katie. It, it wasn't. She
656
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:14,260
a lot of ill will was built up
over the weird bullshit with
657
00:37:14,270 --> 00:37:15,129
her. And Schwartz.
658
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:18,540
A lot of people built, bought
into his story of she's the
659
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:21,770
villain. He's the poor husband
who's trying to do, right? I
660
00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:24,300
think that it was gonna, we, we
saw in the beginning of the
661
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:28,219
season, the friend group was
siding a lot more with him than
662
00:37:28,229 --> 00:37:28,899
with her.
663
00:37:29,419 --> 00:37:33,280
And while I like Katie and I'm
proud of this Renaissance that
664
00:37:33,290 --> 00:37:34,379
she's experiencing.
665
00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:38,560
She doesn't have really, she
doesn't have the, the necessary
666
00:37:38,570 --> 00:37:41,770
likability. There was a scene in
the reunion where Andy said
667
00:37:41,780 --> 00:37:44,570
something to her about like, are
you gonna do? You still think
668
00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:47,239
you wanna have kids? And she
said, you know, I don't have a
669
00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:48,520
huge drive for that.
670
00:37:48,949 --> 00:37:52,709
Instead I think I'm going to be
like the fabulous and who
671
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,020
travels the world and dates a
new young man every week, which
672
00:37:56,030 --> 00:37:59,080
like, I'm a lady who loves not
having babies. I'm into it. I
673
00:37:59,090 --> 00:38:01,840
love that, love that message.
But the way she delivered it
674
00:38:01,850 --> 00:38:04,199
felt like a child actor
delivering their lines.
675
00:38:04,209 --> 00:38:06,750
It didn't feel like this is a
dream, this woman has, it felt
676
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,580
like she was like, this is the
thing that I'll say to sound
677
00:38:09,590 --> 00:38:15,459
cool and it, it didn't versus
Ariana comes across pretty
678
00:38:15,469 --> 00:38:18,010
authentically when she says
things, even things that I'm
679
00:38:18,020 --> 00:38:21,449
sure she put a little thought
and planning into read really
680
00:38:21,459 --> 00:38:24,969
well and, and I don't know if
it's just that she's one of the
681
00:38:24,979 --> 00:38:28,639
smarter members of the cast or
if she is more genuine with her
682
00:38:28,649 --> 00:38:29,500
presentation and things.
683
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:33,090
But I feel like the exact same
line from Ariana would have come
684
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:36,139
across much more likable. And
yet when Katie said it I found
685
00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:39,879
myself cringing. So I was like,
bitch, you're lying. You're not
686
00:38:39,889 --> 00:38:43,919
excited about that. You're being
corny. I hope I would love if
687
00:38:43,929 --> 00:38:45,139
you do that. And you like that.
688
00:38:45,149 --> 00:38:49,320
That's great. But I think that
the situation with Scan of all,
689
00:38:49,330 --> 00:38:53,479
let her be part of this girl
power, get out of the toxic
690
00:38:53,489 --> 00:38:57,159
relationship, build something
new. It let her be part of that,
691
00:38:57,169 --> 00:39:00,409
which is really wonderful. But
I, I don't think she could have
692
00:39:00,419 --> 00:39:01,239
done it on her own.
693
00:39:01,699 --> 00:39:05,889
NATALIE KATONA: No. And I don't
think Katie was actually made
694
00:39:05,899 --> 00:39:09,959
for reality TV. I think she was
a girl waitressing at a
695
00:39:09,969 --> 00:39:13,699
restaurant who happened to be
friends with people who were
696
00:39:13,709 --> 00:39:16,489
like, made for reality
television.
697
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,929
ANNIE SIEG: The point at which I
knew that Katie was not meant
698
00:39:18,939 --> 00:39:22,370
for reality TV was when they had
a season where an entire
699
00:39:22,379 --> 00:39:25,899
storyline was. Katie hasn't been
mean this whole time. She fell
700
00:39:25,909 --> 00:39:28,510
through a skylight a long time
ago and got brain damage that
701
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,209
made her mean. So now you have
to like her because she's not
702
00:39:31,219 --> 00:39:32,050
actually mean.
703
00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:38,000
I was like, we, ok, someone did
not like all the negative
704
00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:40,750
feedback they got from their
earlier seasons and is now
705
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,129
trying to find a reason why it's
not their fault. And the true
706
00:39:44,139 --> 00:39:46,419
reason why it wasn't her fault
was because Schwartz is a piece
707
00:39:46,429 --> 00:39:50,290
of shit. But, but that whole
thing I was like, you should not
708
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:51,370
be on reality TV.
709
00:39:51,379 --> 00:39:54,110
If you're this up said about a
negative edit that you're like
710
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,050
doing this whole weird
storyline. You're not cut out
711
00:39:57,060 --> 00:40:00,870
for it. I mean, look at la, la,
La La has a pretty legitimate
712
00:40:00,879 --> 00:40:03,719
excuse for her bad behavior
earlier because she was a stone
713
00:40:03,729 --> 00:40:06,830
cold alcoholic and she's sober
now and she's fixed it and she
714
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,110
will sometimes say things like I
was a different person at that
715
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:10,540
point.
716
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:13,270
I was making bad decisions,
she'll acknowledge it, but she
717
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,889
doesn't spend a lot of time
being like it's OK that I was
718
00:40:16,899 --> 00:40:20,469
bad. It's great that I was bad.
Here's all the reasons but it
719
00:40:20,479 --> 00:40:23,800
just, she's very like
acknowledging and moving on
720
00:40:23,810 --> 00:40:27,270
versus Katie was fully like, let
me come up with a justification
721
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,010
for why I drink a lot of tequila
and scream at my husband.
722
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,739
That's just your vibe right now.
Babe, that's it.
723
00:40:33,929 --> 00:40:36,570
NATALIE KATONA: Just your vibe
right now. Babe, it's OK. It's
724
00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:37,199
ok.
725
00:40:37,709 --> 00:40:39,659
ANNIE SIEG: If there's any place
to do it, it's on Vanderpump
726
00:40:39,669 --> 00:40:42,199
Rules. But then people will hate
you and you gotta just be cool
727
00:40:42,209 --> 00:40:44,860
with that one of the other.
728
00:40:45,179 --> 00:40:49,919
NATALIE KATONA: Like I can't
decide if this is just misogyny
729
00:40:49,929 --> 00:40:55,780
or people processing is that a
lot of women on Vanderpump Rules
730
00:40:55,790 --> 00:41:02,419
on camera said you'd expect it
from Tom, how dare she do it to
731
00:41:02,429 --> 00:41:08,439
us? And we hear that a lot in
our own experiences like I'd
732
00:41:08,449 --> 00:41:11,000
never expect one of my
girlfriends to do this.
733
00:41:11,669 --> 00:41:16,679
My man is an asshole and I know
that and he just can't help it
734
00:41:16,689 --> 00:41:18,000
because genetics.
735
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:21,520
ANNIE SIEG: I don't know how to
respond to that oven with just
736
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:24,810
like a guttural growl. Because
you're right, that is a thing
737
00:41:24,820 --> 00:41:29,060
that you hear all the time and I
think it is just the natural
738
00:41:29,399 --> 00:41:33,500
progression from the boys will
be boys thing. Right. That we
739
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:38,530
hear all the time that men can't
help themselves. That it's the
740
00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:41,260
same reason why they blame
victims of assault based on what
741
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:43,219
they're wearing or what they
said.
742
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:49,370
And there's just this sense that
like men don't have control over
743
00:41:49,379 --> 00:41:53,469
their animal instincts, which
it's funny that they then argue
744
00:41:53,479 --> 00:41:56,250
that men should be the only ones
who get control and can make big
745
00:41:56,260 --> 00:42:01,560
decisions because pick one, are
they uncontrollable beasts or
746
00:42:01,570 --> 00:42:04,350
are they logical leaders?
Because it feels like it
747
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,239
shouldn't be both.
748
00:42:06,409 --> 00:42:11,729
And that is infuriating that
said, I do kind of understand in
749
00:42:11,739 --> 00:42:15,050
the case of Tom, what people
meant by that because on the
750
00:42:15,060 --> 00:42:18,870
show, Raquel's image was so
curated to be this like
751
00:42:18,879 --> 00:42:23,500
innocent, sweet person. But if
you believe anything you see on
752
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:27,114
Van Rules at face value that's
on you, I guess.
753
00:42:27,125 --> 00:42:30,435
NATALIE KATONA: Thank God. It
was La La who was on watch what
754
00:42:30,445 --> 00:42:35,915
happens live directly after the
third reunion and the rel reveal
755
00:42:35,935 --> 00:42:39,405
because I think LA is the only
one who actually has owned her
756
00:42:39,415 --> 00:42:42,409
shit and reflected enough to be
like, oh.
757
00:42:42,419 --> 00:42:45,600
ANNIE SIEG: She also far and
away has the fastest reaction
758
00:42:45,610 --> 00:42:49,320
time for things out of the cast.
She can, like, pretty quickly
759
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,429
process and come up with like a
pretty good take on things
760
00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:55,879
versus like, I was panicked for
her.
761
00:42:55,889 --> 00:42:58,354
I, I've been listening to her
podcast lately and she on an
762
00:42:58,364 --> 00:43:02,675
episode was talking about how
she didn't get to see that final
763
00:43:02,685 --> 00:43:06,465
five minutes until we all did.
And then 30 seconds later, she
764
00:43:06,475 --> 00:43:08,895
was live on air and needed to
say something about it.
765
00:43:09,004 --> 00:43:10,925
And so in the podcast lead up to
it, she was like, I don't know
766
00:43:10,935 --> 00:43:12,995
what this big reveal is, but I'm
like, pretty stressed because
767
00:43:13,004 --> 00:43:16,189
whatever it is, I need to
respond in a way that's not
768
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:19,719
gonna get me canceled two
seconds later. And she's a brave
769
00:43:19,729 --> 00:43:21,669
one for that. I would not have
been able to handle that. That's
770
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:23,870
terrifying. But La La delivers.
771
00:43:24,090 --> 00:43:27,870
Yeah, because Katie ran around
with Stasi and Kristen, the
772
00:43:27,879 --> 00:43:31,110
three of them, the three witches
a wi ho are not known for
773
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:36,030
forgiveness and they're not
known for great takes like part
774
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,030
of the problem with Stacey is
that she's just like very
775
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,250
reactionary and has always lived
in like pretty girl privilege
776
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:44,550
and will just say whatever comes
to her mind.
777
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,889
And often that thing is like
pretty politically incorrect or
778
00:43:47,899 --> 00:43:52,399
insane and don't be wrong. Laa
has said plenty of things wrong,
779
00:43:52,409 --> 00:43:55,139
but especially since she's
gotten sober, she's much more
780
00:43:55,149 --> 00:43:58,479
likely to come at things from
like, I don't know a place of
781
00:44:00,010 --> 00:44:01,870
more understanding of all their
perspectives.
782
00:44:02,070 --> 00:44:05,149
She's put in work that is a
person that we have seen put in
783
00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:07,659
work on herself and on
understanding things and she
784
00:44:07,669 --> 00:44:10,350
still gets a lot wrong. But I'm
a big fan of La La.
785
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,830
NATALIE KATONA: I'm a big fan of
La La And Arian is too scorned.
786
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,889
So I would understand if Ari
watch that last five minutes and
787
00:44:17,899 --> 00:44:21,889
also realized that manipulative
abuse was happening there. But
788
00:44:21,899 --> 00:44:26,030
she's also grappling with her
manipulative abuse that happened
789
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,850
to her. And she's like, how do I
forgive? Like we're not sisters
790
00:44:29,860 --> 00:44:30,709
in arms.
791
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:34,080
ANNIE SIEG: Here's what I really
need to know and I don't know
792
00:44:34,090 --> 00:44:36,350
that I'll ever get this answer.
But I hope that I do.
793
00:44:36,590 --> 00:44:40,629
I need to know at what point
Ariana knew that the Miami Girl
794
00:44:40,639 --> 00:44:46,250
thing was true because we know
at the when, when that comes out
795
00:44:46,260 --> 00:44:49,110
she's very like, yeah, Miami
Girl got it like it's clearly
796
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,879
not fresh news that that
happened and having just
797
00:44:52,889 --> 00:44:56,760
rewatched the episode, I'm not
trying to blame Ariana because
798
00:44:56,770 --> 00:44:59,260
she was young and she was
stigmatized and she was being
799
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:00,360
manipulated clearly.
800
00:45:00,629 --> 00:45:05,919
But in that episode, when they
bring Miami Girl and they're all
801
00:45:05,929 --> 00:45:09,040
dealing with it in the moment,
Tom and Ariana leave for a while
802
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:11,949
and when they come back, if he
had admitted it to her at that
803
00:45:11,959 --> 00:45:15,870
point, her reaction was pretty
not cute because when Miami
804
00:45:15,879 --> 00:45:18,409
Girls there, she's like
basically making fun of her and
805
00:45:18,419 --> 00:45:21,219
being like, you're crazy and I
believe my boyfriend and you
806
00:45:21,229 --> 00:45:22,260
didn't do anything.
807
00:45:22,570 --> 00:45:28,020
And if Tom said to her, I did
have sex with this woman, but I,
808
00:45:28,030 --> 00:45:30,739
I, we need to deal with it in
private and I don't want to do
809
00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:33,219
this on camera. There was a way
that she could have come back
810
00:45:33,229 --> 00:45:34,489
and just deadpanned it.
811
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:39,010
And instead she was being pretty
San Devali at that woman, which
812
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:43,429
I understand if Tom didn't fully
admit and, and she found out
813
00:45:43,439 --> 00:45:48,209
later, but I, I kind of wanna
know not because I want to beat
814
00:45:48,219 --> 00:45:50,000
up on her if she made the wrong
choice.
815
00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:52,500
I've been an asshole plenty of
times and maybe she was being an
816
00:45:52,510 --> 00:45:57,570
asshole, but I feel it'll better
help me understand the dynamic
817
00:45:57,580 --> 00:46:00,899
of early days, Tom and Ariana. I
wanna better understand what
818
00:46:00,909 --> 00:46:04,979
exactly he said to her around
those events and how that rolled
819
00:46:04,989 --> 00:46:08,320
out, not my business, but I want
to know it anyway.
820
00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:10,929
NATALIE KATONA: But it is my
business is in a way my
821
00:46:10,939 --> 00:46:16,679
business. What if we wrote to
Raquel in the facility? And she
822
00:46:16,689 --> 00:46:18,409
sent us a postcard.
823
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:19,030
ANNIE SIEG: Honestly, at this.
824
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,629
Point, I would give anything to
be friends with Raquel. I mean,
825
00:46:21,649 --> 00:46:25,100
I have friends pretty loosely,
but I've got to get into that
826
00:46:25,110 --> 00:46:28,979
Noggin. I really, I need, I have
questions I need answered. I
827
00:46:28,989 --> 00:46:30,560
really need to understand.
828
00:46:30,850 --> 00:46:35,850
NATALIE KATONA: So you and I are
pretty we are pretty, we are
829
00:46:35,860 --> 00:46:40,209
pretty, but we're also pretty
well lived in the reality TV
830
00:46:40,219 --> 00:46:43,840
world, but also, unfortunately,
like the manipulative abuse
831
00:46:43,850 --> 00:46:47,689
world. How do you think that,
like, women who have just had it
832
00:46:47,699 --> 00:46:53,919
all, who have just had wonderful
boyfriends and good dads and all
833
00:46:53,929 --> 00:46:54,449
of it?
834
00:46:55,330 --> 00:46:59,520
How do you think they're
watching this when they look at
835
00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:03,149
Rock? Hell? Do you think that
they're just going to internally
836
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:06,110
blame her because of
internalized misogyny and just
837
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,550
be like that lady is a bitch or
like, do you think they'll even
838
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,610
cock their heads and be like,
something has to be up?
839
00:47:13,870 --> 00:47:13,919
ANNIE SIEG: Ok.
840
00:47:14,030 --> 00:47:17,389
Well, first of all, I think your
thesis that there are very many
841
00:47:17,399 --> 00:47:20,389
women out there who both have
had good dads and only good
842
00:47:20,399 --> 00:47:27,030
boyfriends a little rocky, that
one. I think that most, if not
843
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,580
all women have had a, a brush
with the sand of all or two in
844
00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:33,530
some way, maybe not to that
extreme.
845
00:47:34,580 --> 00:47:37,879
NATALIE KATONA: These imaginary
women, these binders of women,
846
00:47:37,899 --> 00:47:38,929
if you will.
847
00:47:39,709 --> 00:47:42,209
ANNIE SIEG: And I, I think that
they are probably regardless of
848
00:47:42,219 --> 00:47:45,060
people's past experiences. I
think there are probably going
849
00:47:45,070 --> 00:47:48,790
to be a lot of people who are
more angry at Raquel because
850
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,760
socially we like being angry at
women. We just do. It's a, it's
851
00:47:52,770 --> 00:47:56,699
a cool, cute cultural thing that
we all just love hating women
852
00:47:57,050 --> 00:48:02,449
and blaming women, especially
for, for men's air quotes,
853
00:48:02,459 --> 00:48:03,909
inability to control themselves.
854
00:48:03,919 --> 00:48:07,570
You know, it's, it, we can go
back to Helen Of Troy or whoever
855
00:48:07,580 --> 00:48:10,564
you want to pick. Historically,
it's there is constantly the
856
00:48:10,574 --> 00:48:14,514
need to blame women for men's
bad actions. Now, granted,
857
00:48:14,635 --> 00:48:17,344
Raquel had some pretty bad
actions herself in this case.
858
00:48:17,455 --> 00:48:21,844
But when we look at it, if we,
if we take them at their really
859
00:48:21,854 --> 00:48:25,215
shitty word that this didn't
start when she was with James,
860
00:48:25,225 --> 00:48:28,725
then at the time that they were
hooking up, she was not being a
861
00:48:28,735 --> 00:48:33,854
good friend to Ariana, but she
was not portraying a romantic
862
00:48:33,864 --> 00:48:36,534
relationship. She had not
promised to be exclusively
863
00:48:36,544 --> 00:48:41,379
romantic with one person he had
and that doesn't forgive her any
864
00:48:41,389 --> 00:48:41,750
of it.
865
00:48:41,830 --> 00:48:46,439
But it does mean that if we're
gonna be real mad at someone, he
866
00:48:46,449 --> 00:48:48,860
is the correct person for us to
be real mad at. I think that
867
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:51,399
there will be people who are
angrier at her just because it's
868
00:48:51,409 --> 00:48:54,739
easy to be angry at her and
because she, I was gonna say she
869
00:48:54,750 --> 00:48:57,510
can't really defend herself. But
honestly, I think in the
870
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,320
reunion, she came off a lot
better than him.
871
00:49:00,379 --> 00:49:03,179
Not just because she eventually
fessed up about some, some
872
00:49:03,189 --> 00:49:08,860
things. But I think even before
that, Tom is incapable of just
873
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:12,760
saying I fucked up. I'm sorry,
over and over again. He's given
874
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:16,100
the opportunity to say I fucked
up pi sorry, which is the only
875
00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:18,610
way you could disarm this if he
had come out in the beginning of
876
00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:21,179
the reunion and just anything
that. They said if he had gone.
877
00:49:21,189 --> 00:49:25,679
You're right. I suck. I'm sorry.
I know that's not enough. But
878
00:49:25,689 --> 00:49:28,219
I'm sorry. And I'm just gonna
keep being, I'm being here and
879
00:49:28,229 --> 00:49:31,149
being sorry, that's what I'm
gonna do. It would have taken
880
00:49:31,159 --> 00:49:34,110
all the wind out of their sails,
but he couldn't do that. He had
881
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,600
to go. Well, LA, LA did this and
James did that and Ariana wore a
882
00:49:37,610 --> 00:49:39,370
T shirt and it's not my fault.
883
00:49:39,590 --> 00:49:43,110
Versus when Raquel came out,
there were a couple of moments
884
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,100
where she kind of put up a fight
like that. But for the most
885
00:49:45,110 --> 00:49:49,610
part, she took it like a champ.
She sat out there and let a
886
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:52,050
bunch of people scream at her
about how much she sucked. And
887
00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:55,209
she said things like I am
disgusted with myself. I can't
888
00:49:55,219 --> 00:49:57,530
believe I did that. That was
gross.
889
00:49:58,340 --> 00:50:04,530
I am bad and all of his fake
crying and all of his bolt did
890
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:08,040
not read. Well, I think that she
did that a lot better. So I
891
00:50:08,050 --> 00:50:11,050
don't think it is really
accurate to say that she can't
892
00:50:11,060 --> 00:50:13,629
defend herself. I think that
she's actually potentially
893
00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:18,149
navigating this kind of, well,
she, she did the number one
894
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:20,820
thing that celebrities should do
and struggle to do in the face
895
00:50:20,830 --> 00:50:24,929
of scandal, which is go away.
She got left the public eye.
896
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,270
Hopefully she's doing some solid
therapy and we won't really know
897
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,709
how well she's navigating it
till she rolls back into the
898
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:38,050
public eye again. But the, the
two primary steps of take
899
00:50:38,060 --> 00:50:41,760
accountability and then fuck
off. She has aced both of them
900
00:50:41,770 --> 00:50:43,060
and he has not with either.
901
00:50:43,209 --> 00:50:45,879
NATALIE KATONA: These are just
fun questions and then we'll do
902
00:50:45,889 --> 00:50:49,780
the little manifestations and
takeaways and then maybe we'll
903
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:52,709
talk about Lola and James for
the Patreon because we didn't
904
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:53,639
get to talk about them.
905
00:50:54,550 --> 00:50:58,489
But anyways, what was your
favorite line of the reunions?
906
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:04,530
ANNIE SIEG: Was probably Lisa
was talking about how Raquel's
907
00:51:04,540 --> 00:51:07,310
behavior was so weird and she
was like, it's almost as if you
908
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,129
were like participating in some
sort of pageant for for his
909
00:51:11,139 --> 00:51:14,790
affection. And James said some
nasty comment where he was like,
910
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,850
oh no, Lisa, she won't win that.
911
00:51:16,860 --> 00:51:21,840
She doesn't win pageants and it
was, I loved it because we've so
912
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:24,500
clearly seen that. The only
thing Raquel cares about. The
913
00:51:24,510 --> 00:51:27,929
only time she shed tears on
camera. The only time she cares
914
00:51:27,939 --> 00:51:30,050
is what it has to do with
pageants. I just love that he
915
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:33,449
found a way to get a pageant
slam in there. I really, that's
916
00:51:33,459 --> 00:51:34,379
probably my favorite.
917
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,919
NATALIE KATONA: Mine was go fuck
yourself with the cheese grater.
918
00:51:38,189 --> 00:51:42,510
I would wear that on a T shirt.
I would, I want it on a Tumblr
919
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,500
actually. So I can just like
cheers people with it.
920
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:49,290
ANNIE SIEG: I appreciate the,
the bitings of the comment.
921
00:51:49,389 --> 00:51:52,500
That's not my favorite because I
just, it makes my brain
922
00:51:52,510 --> 00:51:56,189
viscerally think about the
physical sensation of cheese
923
00:51:56,199 --> 00:51:58,219
grater. And I, then I don't like
that.
924
00:51:58,229 --> 00:51:58,929
I pick my.
925
00:51:58,939 --> 00:52:01,540
NATALIE KATONA: Lines based on
the delivery and she, she just,
926
00:52:01,550 --> 00:52:05,489
like said it, like she had said
it every day and I'm like, good
927
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:09,219
for you. Ariana. I also loved, I
know you like Harry Potter.
928
00:52:09,610 --> 00:52:11,649
ANNIE SIEG: That was AAA plus
delivery.
929
00:52:11,790 --> 00:52:15,260
NATALIE KATONA: A plus. My
favorite line of the entire
930
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:19,310
series is I am the devil. And
don't you forget it.
931
00:52:19,889 --> 00:52:25,030
ANNIE SIEG: Yeah. I, you know,
Stacey, much like Jack is bad.
932
00:52:25,590 --> 00:52:27,620
But I do love to watch.
933
00:52:27,629 --> 00:52:28,489
I love to watch.
934
00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:30,219
NATALIE KATONA: How bad I do.
935
00:52:30,750 --> 00:52:34,949
What are you, what, what are
people supposed to take away and
936
00:52:34,959 --> 00:52:38,719
learn from scandal? Besides,
don't cheat on your partners.
937
00:52:38,969 --> 00:52:42,800
ANNIE SIEG: Honestly, the big
scan of all for me was a little
938
00:52:42,810 --> 00:52:45,209
triggering. I might have talked
about this on our early episode.
939
00:52:45,219 --> 00:52:49,419
I'm not sure. But I, I had a
relationship that was very
940
00:52:49,429 --> 00:52:53,179
Ariana Sandoval as it down to
the, let me put on some sparkle
941
00:52:53,189 --> 00:52:56,219
pants and be embarrassing and me
being like, ah, that's endearing
942
00:52:56,229 --> 00:52:57,260
and not embarrassing.
943
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:02,139
It was, it was embarrassing and
similarly turned out a whole
944
00:53:02,149 --> 00:53:04,399
bunch of cheating was happening.
I didn't know about it. I was
945
00:53:04,409 --> 00:53:07,489
blindsided. It involved people
in my life. It was very yucky.
946
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:09,179
It was really similar to this
situation.
947
00:53:09,709 --> 00:53:15,639
And the thing that I couldn't
quite move past for a while that
948
00:53:15,649 --> 00:53:20,100
Ariana has talked about too is
that in attempting to be a good
949
00:53:20,110 --> 00:53:23,739
partner, she was intentionally
turning a blind eye to things,
950
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:26,739
there would be things that look
suspicious and she would be
951
00:53:26,750 --> 00:53:30,459
like, I'm choosing to believe
you because that's what you're
952
00:53:30,469 --> 00:53:31,620
supposed to do with your person.
953
00:53:31,790 --> 00:53:34,800
And I had the same thing happen
where, you know, a narcissist
954
00:53:34,810 --> 00:53:38,330
was being manipulative and I
would, I would see things that
955
00:53:38,629 --> 00:53:43,929
were 99% proof of something bad
and I would go, but it's my job
956
00:53:43,939 --> 00:53:48,389
as a good partner to trust you
that there's that 1% chance
957
00:53:48,399 --> 00:53:49,760
that, that this isn't shady.
958
00:53:49,770 --> 00:53:51,620
And I have to listen to you. If
you're promising me, that's the
959
00:53:51,629 --> 00:53:55,050
case. And I guess the thing that
I took away from both that
960
00:53:55,060 --> 00:53:56,550
relationship nightmare.
961
00:53:56,639 --> 00:54:00,370
And then again, as a reminder
from scandal is that it is
962
00:54:00,379 --> 00:54:02,969
important to trust the person
you're with. And there are going
963
00:54:02,979 --> 00:54:05,429
to be times that you have to
take someone's word over what
964
00:54:05,439 --> 00:54:09,129
makes sense to your brain. But
at the end of the day, your gut
965
00:54:09,139 --> 00:54:10,139
knows what's up.
966
00:54:10,370 --> 00:54:15,409
It does. And if you get to a
place where you're feeling the
967
00:54:15,419 --> 00:54:18,389
need to track someone's location
and look at their text message,
968
00:54:18,399 --> 00:54:21,820
history and check their email
and do those things, stop doing
969
00:54:21,830 --> 00:54:25,110
it and just break up with them,
just, just break up with them
970
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,260
and maybe you're wrong.
971
00:54:26,330 --> 00:54:29,669
But if you're in a relationship
with someone that you really in
972
00:54:29,679 --> 00:54:33,229
your gut feel like is doing
something shady, you don't want
973
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,580
to be in that relationship even
if you're wrong, you don't wanna
974
00:54:35,590 --> 00:54:37,689
be in that relationship because
it's not the right fit.
975
00:54:38,020 --> 00:54:41,620
And I think Ariana ignored the
signs because she was trying to
976
00:54:41,629 --> 00:54:45,419
be good girlfriend and I respect
that from her and I understand
977
00:54:45,429 --> 00:54:49,330
that, but sometimes you gotta
listen to your gut. Would the
978
00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:50,340
takeaway, I would say.
979
00:54:50,550 --> 00:54:52,439
NATALIE KATONA: I'm gonna cosign
on that and then I'm gonna
980
00:54:52,449 --> 00:54:56,239
remind everyone to not put
irresponsible men on your
981
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:59,979
paperwork because now Ariana is
living in a house that she
982
00:54:59,989 --> 00:55:04,360
probably cannot afford to get
out of because it's very clear
983
00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:08,580
that Sandoval is just taking out
loans on their house to fund any
984
00:55:08,590 --> 00:55:10,760
bar that he has thought would be
cool.
985
00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:16,820
Possibly his like band, all of
the 12 people that are in his
986
00:55:16,830 --> 00:55:19,909
band, plus the roadies and the
tours and all of it.
987
00:55:20,530 --> 00:55:23,489
ANNIE SIEG: I can only pray that
Ariana has taken the big old
988
00:55:23,500 --> 00:55:25,830
pile of money she's gotten from
all of this and has gone
989
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,419
directly to the world's greatest
lawyer and been like, I will
990
00:55:29,429 --> 00:55:33,189
give you all of this if you make
sure that there is not a single
991
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:36,750
financial tether left between me
and that idiot.
992
00:55:37,649 --> 00:55:40,550
I, I hope Ariana if you're
listening, I know you are. If
993
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,090
you're tuning in to do all of
that, I've tolerated before
994
00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:48,389
Ariana. Listen to me. Go get
yourself a bulldog of a lawyer
995
00:55:48,699 --> 00:55:53,669
and get the fuck away from him.
Yeah, but that is do not tie
996
00:55:53,679 --> 00:55:55,229
yourself financially to ding
dongs.
997
00:55:55,419 --> 00:55:56,020
Never.
998
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:57,899
NATALIE KATONA: Don't even let
them look at your bank account.
999
00:55:57,909 --> 00:56:01,280
Silly. That's none of their
business. What are you hoping
1000
00:56:01,290 --> 00:56:04,540
for? The? Oh, did I, I don't
know if you know this and I
1001
00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:07,320
didn't want to text you this in
case it would be like an
1002
00:56:07,330 --> 00:56:08,530
authentic moment.
1003
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:12,060
They did announce today that
we're getting a season 11.
1004
00:56:13,459 --> 00:56:17,919
ANNIE SIEG: I had not heard
that. I'm not surprised because
1005
00:56:18,229 --> 00:56:24,040
capitalism. Yes, I am a little
concerned.
1006
00:56:27,169 --> 00:56:29,360
I'm gonna withhold judgment
about it.
1007
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,649
But my feeling is that I have
loved Vanderpump Rules since day
1008
00:56:34,659 --> 00:56:37,530
one. I've loved it since I was
watching Beverly Hills. And then
1009
00:56:37,540 --> 00:56:40,399
suddenly I followed Sheena into
the kitchen and something new
1010
00:56:40,409 --> 00:56:44,439
was happening. I have loved it
from the jump and as this season
1011
00:56:44,449 --> 00:56:48,189
was wrapping, I could not stop
thinking as much as I don't want
1012
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:50,429
this thing that I love to go
away.
1013
00:56:50,729 --> 00:56:56,143
It will not get better than
this. This is a in the world of
1014
00:56:56,153 --> 00:57:00,103
reality TV. I don't think
anything has been as satisfying
1015
00:57:00,202 --> 00:57:05,693
to watch unfold as scandal. Not
the Kardashians, not Real World.
1016
00:57:05,702 --> 00:57:09,843
It just, this was something
magical, which sounds insane
1017
00:57:09,853 --> 00:57:11,982
because a horrible thing
happened. But the way that it
1018
00:57:11,992 --> 00:57:15,345
came out and then we were
watching the build up to seeing
1019
00:57:15,355 --> 00:57:17,976
the thing that we know would
happen and the sleuth thing that
1020
00:57:17,986 --> 00:57:21,686
was going on, it was so
satisfying in so many ways.
1021
00:57:21,936 --> 00:57:26,436
And if the show carries on and
only follows the people who are
1022
00:57:26,446 --> 00:57:30,406
air quotes, good people on the
show that's gonna be pretty
1023
00:57:30,416 --> 00:57:35,216
snoozy by comparison. And if the
show continues to follow the
1024
00:57:35,226 --> 00:57:39,429
train wreck of scandal, like,
where does that possibly go from
1025
00:57:39,439 --> 00:57:43,310
this point? So, I, I remain
faithful in our Lord and Savior,
1026
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:44,850
Savior Andy Cohen.
1027
00:57:45,469 --> 00:57:50,090
But, if I were in charge over at
Bravo, which Bravo call me, I
1028
00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:53,449
should be, Vanderpump would not
be getting an 11th season.
1029
00:57:54,010 --> 00:57:56,709
NATALIE KATONA: Ok. Well, what,
because they are, what's your
1030
00:57:56,719 --> 00:57:58,280
one wish for the season?
1031
00:57:59,020 --> 00:58:01,129
That will be our manifestations
today?
1032
00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:09,620
ANNIE SIEG: My one wish for the
season is that it, it has a, a
1033
00:58:09,629 --> 00:58:16,199
format change to be more like
Real Housewives where the focus
1034
00:58:16,209 --> 00:58:20,149
is almost entirely on the women
of the show and the men are
1035
00:58:20,159 --> 00:58:22,879
complimentary when they're
relevant to a storyline.
1036
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,830
You'll, you'll see who they're
dating or that kind of thing.
1037
00:58:26,989 --> 00:58:30,110
But the show should be about the
women at this point. And I do
1038
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,850
include Raquel in that because
again, I gotta get to the bottom
1039
00:58:33,860 --> 00:58:36,870
of what's going on with her. I
think she's a, I, I need to know
1040
00:58:36,879 --> 00:58:37,820
what's happening.
1041
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,449
NATALIE KATONA: Honestly, I was
going to say that for my
1042
00:58:40,459 --> 00:58:44,120
manifestation. I hope that Rock
Hill does get some redemption. I
1043
00:58:44,129 --> 00:58:48,000
think La La taking that pause to
be like, honestly, Andy, I'm
1044
00:58:48,010 --> 00:58:51,300
gonna have to sit on that and
whether or not I feel icky about
1045
00:58:51,310 --> 00:58:56,370
things that I called her. Not
three days ago and just like
1046
00:58:56,580 --> 00:59:02,209
taking a beat with it. And I
think, I think La La has been
1047
00:59:02,219 --> 00:59:05,449
trying and she even tried it
with Raquel when she went.
1048
00:59:05,479 --> 00:59:08,179
You might love her, not a
mistress, but you will be the
1049
00:59:08,189 --> 00:59:11,810
one who goes down for this
because La La is currently
1050
00:59:11,820 --> 00:59:17,790
battling that and has battled
it. So I think Lola is my
1051
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:23,810
champion and my current Lord and
Savior and she has become Chris.
1052
00:59:23,820 --> 00:59:28,639
So Chris Pratt is the face of
our enemy here on to all the men
1053
00:59:28,649 --> 00:59:32,409
I've tolerated before. Whenever
I think of male privilege and
1054
00:59:32,419 --> 00:59:34,510
misogyny, it's his head.
1055
00:59:35,830 --> 00:59:39,889
And then when I think about what
does it take to deprogram from
1056
00:59:39,899 --> 00:59:42,570
misogyny? I think La La, I.
1057
00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:45,379
ANNIE SIEG: Love La La and I
accept that she is your totem.
1058
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:52,050
I, I think that La La as much as
she has put in some really
1059
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:55,810
significant work. I think she
sometimes does an oopsy and
1060
00:59:55,820 --> 01:00:00,520
falls in the misogyny. Still. We
all do not judging all have an
1061
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:01,929
oopsy misogyny sometimes.
1062
01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:08,290
But I do think that there's a
real opportunity on the show for
1063
01:00:08,300 --> 01:00:16,479
people to help Raquel redeem
herself without just wiping away
1064
01:00:16,489 --> 01:00:20,300
what happened. I think there's
such a history with all the
1065
01:00:20,310 --> 01:00:24,879
women on the show of making bad
choices being with bad people
1066
01:00:24,889 --> 01:00:28,360
falling down rabbit holes of
darkness that if any group of
1067
01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:32,110
women can help pull her back out
of the shit, it should be this
1068
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:32,489
group.
1069
01:00:33,179 --> 01:00:36,290
And I think that, like I said,
she's do, she's taken all the
1070
01:00:36,300 --> 01:00:38,580
right steps so far. I think that
there is a possibility that it
1071
01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:39,280
happens.
1072
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,719
But she's got to stay away from
Sandoval.
1073
01:00:43,729 --> 01:00:46,879
NATALIE KATONA: She's gotta,
she's gotta. And unfortunately,
1074
01:00:46,889 --> 01:00:51,379
I think Sandoval for his little
schemes and his, it's time to
1075
01:00:51,389 --> 01:00:54,959
get my dick wet and I wanna feel
exciting. He picked the wrong
1076
01:00:54,969 --> 01:00:57,560
woman because he picked a woman
that was actually gonna fall in
1077
01:00:57,570 --> 01:01:00,959
love with him. And he could have
literally have picked anyone
1078
01:01:00,969 --> 01:01:01,540
else.
1079
01:01:01,669 --> 01:01:04,800
ANNIE SIEG: But I think what he
needed was someone to, I think
1080
01:01:04,810 --> 01:01:06,919
he needed that infatuation.
1081
01:01:07,419 --> 01:01:10,159
It's not what he actually wanted
because he doesn't wanna be with
1082
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,050
Raquel. Now, he doesn't want to
slide into another serious long
1083
01:01:13,060 --> 01:01:18,330
term relationship. But I think
for him, I think he's a serial
1084
01:01:18,340 --> 01:01:21,350
cheater who does have random
hookups all the time. But the
1085
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:26,139
reason Raquel was such a
downfall for him is that he
1086
01:01:26,149 --> 01:01:29,699
can't get enough of someone
fawning over him. Right.
1087
01:01:30,399 --> 01:01:32,820
NATALIE KATONA: Annie, do you
have first off? Thank you for
1088
01:01:32,830 --> 01:01:33,590
being back.
1089
01:01:33,639 --> 01:01:36,239
ANNIE SIEG: Of course, any time
I could truly talk about this
1090
01:01:36,250 --> 01:01:37,570
forever and ever.
1091
01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:38,479
In all eternity.
1092
01:01:38,919 --> 01:01:43,459
NATALIE KATONA: And honestly is
my exhaustion because I over
1093
01:01:43,469 --> 01:01:47,489
socialized this week or is it
because I knew that Vanderpump
1094
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,189
and the ultimatum queer love and
the heiress to were all over for
1095
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:56,189
me. And now I have to just
hibernate until the Barbie movie
1096
01:01:56,229 --> 01:01:56,429
done an.
1097
01:01:56,439 --> 01:01:58,649
ANNIE SIEG: Episode in Ultimatum
queer love yet. I have not.
1098
01:01:58,659 --> 01:01:59,699
NATALIE KATONA: Are you signing?
1099
01:02:00,689 --> 01:02:02,709
ANNIE SIEG: Well? It depends. Do
you want to talk for an hour
1100
01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:06,139
about how in love with Mal I am
because that's all I can talk
1101
01:02:06,149 --> 01:02:09,110
about. That's the main thing
that I want to talk about is how
1102
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,709
incredibly attractive Mal is.
Like.
1103
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,370
NATALIE KATONA: Damn, no, I
would love to talk about the
1104
01:02:14,379 --> 01:02:18,310
ultimatum queer love and compare
it to straight love on the
1105
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:27,229
original and just all of it, the
pronouns, the, the relationship,
1106
01:02:27,239 --> 01:02:29,129
dichotomy, all of it.
1107
01:02:29,860 --> 01:02:31,780
ANNIE SIEG: Fundamental premise
of the show.
1108
01:02:31,850 --> 01:02:35,850
NATALIE KATONA: Yes, the
fundamental, the, the host.
1109
01:02:36,300 --> 01:02:36,810
ANNIE SIEG: I would like.
1110
01:02:36,820 --> 01:02:41,280
To just formally be your reality
TV correspondent. And just when
1111
01:02:41,290 --> 01:02:43,989
there's some reality TV, you
wanna talk about, consider me
1112
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,429
there because I've probably
already watched it and I'm dying
1113
01:02:47,439 --> 01:02:50,590
to talk about it. My, my Bravo
group chat. Shout out to the
1114
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:51,629
Bravo babes.
1115
01:02:52,590 --> 01:02:55,639
I am constantly trying to make
them talk about selling Sunset
1116
01:02:55,649 --> 01:02:58,719
and it's very clear that I love
it a lot more than any of them.
1117
01:02:58,969 --> 01:03:02,169
I'm always like, did anyone see
this? Have you heard about that?
1118
01:03:02,179 --> 01:03:07,239
And it's just like pretty, like,
I know it's not b but, but the
1119
01:03:07,250 --> 01:03:09,800
houses are pretty and the
clothes are crazy.
1120
01:03:11,469 --> 01:03:14,530
NATALIE KATONA: I have told you
that this summer I will watch as
1121
01:03:14,540 --> 01:03:17,439
much as sun, sun Sunset as I can
handle.
1122
01:03:17,449 --> 01:03:19,419
ANNIE SIEG: I need you to binge
all of it and then talk to me
1123
01:03:19,429 --> 01:03:23,370
about it because I need to
discuss these tiny bald twins
1124
01:03:23,379 --> 01:03:28,810
who just love giant, angry hot
women. It's such a, it's a
1125
01:03:28,820 --> 01:03:31,639
fascinating dynamic. I don't
know why more people aren't into
1126
01:03:31,649 --> 01:03:31,770
it.
1127
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,070
NATALIE KATONA: Well, plug some
of your work fine.
1128
01:03:38,129 --> 01:03:41,919
ANNIE SIEG: I am Annie makes art
on Tik Tok, although I've not
1129
01:03:41,929 --> 01:03:46,530
been super active lately because
social media is like draining my
1130
01:03:46,540 --> 01:03:49,370
soul. But I'm gonna, I'll try,
I'll try and get back on there.
1131
01:03:49,379 --> 01:03:53,149
I still post periodically. Same
thing with Instagram. I'm a K si
1132
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:57,679
eg on Instagram. And post kind
of sometimes sort of maybe.
1133
01:03:58,850 --> 01:04:04,449
And I'm a painter. I paint
mostly bodacious babes without
1134
01:04:04,459 --> 01:04:08,260
clothes on. So if you're a
bodacious Babe who would like to
1135
01:04:08,270 --> 01:04:09,760
be painted, hit me up.
1136
01:04:10,610 --> 01:04:14,659
Or if you just like covering
your walls with nudie fun times
1137
01:04:14,669 --> 01:04:17,159
also hit me up. Is that a plug?
Did I do it?
1138
01:04:18,340 --> 01:04:19,389
Annie.com?
1139
01:04:19,399 --> 01:04:22,350
NATALIE KATONA: If you want to
look at my art, if you wanna
1140
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,709
look at Annie's art and what it
might look like in a bedroom
1141
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:29,370
every Tuesday when we're
covering one tree hill on, still
1142
01:04:29,379 --> 01:04:32,469
comfy with jewels. I'm sitting
in front of what I have deemed
1143
01:04:32,479 --> 01:04:35,580
my Annie wall and now I feel
like I can't add to it because
1144
01:04:35,590 --> 01:04:37,909
I'm like that wall is for Annie.
1145
01:04:37,919 --> 01:04:39,899
ANNIE SIEG: I'll just keep
sending you more and more art
1146
01:04:39,909 --> 01:04:43,800
and just go weird pile of that
behind you. I mostly pick butts.
1147
01:04:44,129 --> 01:04:47,909
NATALIE KATONA: My favorite tag
line is if it's butts, it's a
1148
01:04:47,919 --> 01:04:53,810
uni and everyone in order to see
that you'd have to follow men.
1149
01:04:53,820 --> 01:04:57,709
I've tolerated pod on Instagram.
There's a link tree in our bio
1150
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,949
join the Patreon because I mean,
I talked more about the Era Tour
1151
01:05:01,959 --> 01:05:05,189
and I haven't even talked to
Annie about how Lisa Vanderpump
1152
01:05:05,199 --> 01:05:06,239
hates women.
1153
01:05:06,969 --> 01:05:07,350
ANNIE SIEG: My God.
1154
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,060
How did we not talk about Lisa
and how? All right.
1155
01:05:10,070 --> 01:05:10,469
All right.
1156
01:05:10,830 --> 01:05:15,250
NATALIE KATONA: So, so just
remember out there Tolerator is
1157
01:05:15,260 --> 01:05:18,010
you don't have to smile through
anything. You're tolerating,
1158
01:05:18,020 --> 01:05:21,830
including a man who will be like
freeze your eggs and in case you
1159
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:26,020
want my kids and then never re
fertilize them. Smiles are for
1160
01:05:26,030 --> 01:05:26,479
joy.