Fractional CEO Services For Small Businesses

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Tim Staton: Hey and welcome back to another episode.
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What if you could rent top-tier leadership expertise on demand? Did that interest you?
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It did me when I found out that that was even a thing.
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With awareness surging from 10% to over 60% among business owners in recent years, it allows
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you to unlock economic benefits, reduce burnout, and allows small businesses to have strategic
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growth without the full-time commitment and price tag that accompanies a full-time C-suite.
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Joining me today is Kristen McAlister, co-owner of Cirrus Executives, and she's an intentional
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leadership keynote speaker, author of "Finding Leadership: Building Teams That Build Your Business,"
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and she's an expert in empowering businesses through dynamic teams and interim fractional solutions.
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So Kristen, welcome to the show.
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Tim Staton: This is Tim Staton with Tim Stating the Obvious.
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What is this podcast about?
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It's simple: you are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's to church,
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whether it's to work, whether it's at your house.
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You are entitled to great leadership.
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And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
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Disclaimer: And a quick disclaimer: this show, process, or service by trademark, trademark manufacturer
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otherwise, does not necessarily constitute and apply the endorsement of anyone that I employed
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by or favors them in representation.
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The views are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
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reflect those of any employer.
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Kristen McAlister: Hi Tim. I am so excited that we finally get to have this conversation.
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Tim Staton: Me too. And I've been doing a lot of research about this, so that way I can kind of talk intelligently about it.
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So my first question to you is: how did you get into the interim and fractional leadership space?
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Kristen McAlister: I got into it on the other side of the table.
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Back in '08, '09, it seems like ages ago, through a series of M&A and layoffs, I ended up consulting. I wasn't quite sure.
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I'd been 15 years in one industry.
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I didn't know whether I wanted to go back into the industry on a full-time basis or explore other things.
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And I did a couple of consulting assignments, and it made absolutely no sense to me.
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I went in, helped them figure out how to solve their problems, what the answers were, and then I exited.
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And then they went back to doing the same things on a day-to-day basis, the same routines, would
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call me six months later and say, "We got this problem." I said, "You mean the same one we had
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six months ago?" "Yes." "All right.
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Let's go back and solve this again." And it just kept happening.
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And I knew there had to be a better way.
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And I ended up on a nonprofit board with the original founder, Cirrus Executives, and found
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out about interim work and part-time executives and how companies can borrow expertise inside their company.
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And that was all it took through a series of moving around with a military spouse and, oh gosh,
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a whole other journey later, I ended up purchasing Cirrus Executives along with the original founder.
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And that was close to 15 years ago.
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Tim Staton: I kind of want to take a quick detour a little bit because you said traveling around with your military spouse.
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So how did that have an impact on your career?
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Kristen McAlister: It was the guiding light on my career.
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We ended up getting married when I was in between.
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I had not quite found Cirrus yet, and I had been laid off.
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And I had to really sit back and think, what do I want my career to look like?
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Not as far as the title, the types of activities, the industry.
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I'm about to move every couple of years.
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I'm used to being in the same place my entire life, but I always want a career, and I want to raise a family.
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And I put together this picture of what I wanted our life to look like and how I wanted to be spending my time.
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So when the opportunity for Cirrus and to purchase it came along, it checked all of those boxes,
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and I became an entrepreneur.
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Nowhere in my game plan did it say, "Be a business owner," but it was perfect.
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We were able to keep the company virtual.
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I was able to work from wherever I was.
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I had the flexibility to raise a child and support my husband through deployments, all while
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everything that comes along with owning a business.
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Tim Staton: How has that evolved?
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Kristen McAlister: I think like any company evolves, I've gone through the typical business owner where the company evolved around me.
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And then as I needed more time and more freedom to be there for my family and my son, realized
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I just couldn't do everything.
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And we hired people on, and we got other individuals to really run the company.
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And it's taken through being the one person doing everything to learning to let go, learning
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to gain some freedom and some space.
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So I have that, especially as my son gets older.
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He needs me more, not less.
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It's been incredible through my husband's retirement and supporting him in his next career and
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just learning how to own the business, but not own everything in it.
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And that wasn't my number one priority from the beginning.
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My number one priority was my family.
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Tim Staton: It's awesome how that evolves and you're able to do that.
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I don't like the word work-life balance, but focus and balance at the same time.
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With the focus and the balance, can we just kind of talk a little bit about defining what interim
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and fractional leadership is for those who may never have heard it before?
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Kristen McAlister: Absolutely. And I will tell you, you can ask 10 other people, and they'll probably define it differently.
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Whether you're using interim, fractional, part-time advisor, at this point even consulting,
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it's a way for businesses to get the expertise they need in the amount that they need it, at
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the level they need it, at the time that they need it.
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Really not need to bring someone on on a longer-term full-time basis because what they're bringing
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that person in to do is solve a problem.
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And that problem may not be ongoing, or it may not exist full-time.
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And they're just able to rent or lease that expertise for the time that they need it.
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Tim Staton: Can you kind of give me like a story of what that looks like?
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Kristen McAlister: Absolutely. So we have a lot of small companies that are growing.
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They need someone to really take on finance.
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How much cash do we have?
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How are we going to do it wisely?
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And what do our numbers look like?
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Because the business owner or CEO, at some point, the business grows beyond what their head can keep track of.
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They used to know the numbers. They don't anymore.
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So usually what we see is that first leadership hire is a CFO.
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Does it make sense to spend $200,000, $250,000, a CFO at that point of the business? No.
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But to bring someone on 10 hours a month or maybe 8 hours a week, it is a game changer.
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I remember back when we first brought in our CFO, which I had been doing for any number of years,
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and a year afterwards, I couldn't believe the numbers.
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I said, "Wait a minute.
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How in the world did we increase our revenues at this stage by 50% in one year?
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What did we do differently in marketing?" And she looked at me and smiled and said, "Nope.
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That's you being able to focus 100% on the business and not be caught up in the finances and the numbers.
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You let me do that." It was a game changer.
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Tim Staton: How critical is it, or how often do you find businesses struggling with, you know, you got somebody
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who started a business, they're involved in every little bit.
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How hard is it to step back and detach themselves and to delegate and go like, "You know what?
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I need expertise in this area. You run with it."
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Kristen McAlister: Tim, you probably hit on the number one reason as to why we sometimes take so long or why clients
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will call us when something has hit the fan, something's gone wrong.
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They're in more pain than maybe they should be because we let it get to that point.
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It's really tough to be able to see how do we duplicate ourselves?
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Because what we want to do is duplicate exactly how we were the head of sales, duplicate how we did finance.
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And that's a tough thing to let go of because a lot of times our identity is wrapped up in that.
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And once we're able to go back to why did we start the business to begin with and regain, in
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some cases, that identity or create a new identity of, "I'm going to be the CEO.
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I'm going to be the chief brand ambassador.
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I'm going to be able to spend more time with the clients," which is what I love to do.
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We're able to let that go.
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And then the second part of it is it's not going to be done exactly the same way because as
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we grow, the company evolves and we start to uncouple all the different when one person does
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five different things, it's done one way.
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When two or three people do those five things, it needs to be done differently.
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And we swap things out.
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And it's almost like putting in an elastic waistband.
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We're no longer having a zipper.
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Some of us, as we age, we grow, and our company needs to have that elastic waistband to grow
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until we get into that next size up or next size down.
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As a company, we want that next size up.
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So we stretch it, and then we get into that new size of clothing as an analogy.
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And people who have done that before, most of us, this is the largest company we've ever run
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or we've ever owned in this role.
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And we need to learn from others who have done that before and can tell us, "Here's where all those landmines are.
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Here's how we're going to avoid them, and here's how we're going to go about it." It's like getting an answer key.
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Tim Staton: What do you see the market trend doing on this?
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Is this pretty common in the United States that people are like, "You know what?
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I need to hire expertise, partial, fractional, or part-time?" Or are we kind of lagging behind other countries in this?
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Kristen McAlister: It's interesting. I think that's where I see, not to confuse things too much, the interim executives
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where they go in to fill a role on a full-time basis, usually in between two part-timers or
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there's some M&A going on.
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You really need them in there five days a week, but for a temporary basis, that's where Europe really started the model.
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It's been around for decades.
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And the U.S. has started to adopt that more so over the last 10 years.
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We had a company who lost their director of VP, their finance, and they weren't sure what they needed next.
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They didn't want to just go replace with another director of finance.
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They had some M&A activities going on. They needed new infrastructure.
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So they brought in an interim CFO for that period of time who then helped them decide what you
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really need longer term as a controller, full-time. So there's that temporary.
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And that's where internationally, especially Europe, really created that.
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On a part-time, fractional basis, that's where the U.S. has really leaned into it, I'd say,
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the last five plus years.
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In fact, it wasn't even part.
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It was part-time back when we started 15 years ago.
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Now we are Windows fractional CFO and fractional executives.
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We've been applying that, especially with small to midsize businesses.
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As I talk to European and international counterparts, I get to hear that, "You're not going
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to believe what we've got companies asking for, this new service line that we're doing called
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fractional executive." And it's amazing how worldwide companies are figuring out how to have
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a more agile leadership model because as everything around us is changing so quickly, the old
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leadership model just doesn't work, especially for most situations and unknown situations that we're facing.
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What we need today isn't necessarily what we need six months from now.
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Tim Staton: That's a great point. So when you said they need a more agile leadership model, can you just
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kind of explain a little bit more about what you mean by that?
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Kristen McAlister: Absolutely. One of my favorite topics, I call it leadership team economics.
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Picture having four executives on your leadership team.
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You're paying them each $250,000, spending about a million dollars.
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More agile could be, we only really need one person, full-time, longer term, say, VP of sales
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to own business development and own our sales cycle.
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On the other hand, we only need a COO for the next six months to get everything set up for all
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these sales that are coming in, and then they can hire an operations manager longer term.
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We need someone part-time in finance, a CFO, to then oversee a staff accountant who's full-time.
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We only need an HR executive, maybe one day a week, and a team of HR administrators and coordinators.
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All of that talent and putting them in at the right level and the right time, you're going to
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spend the same or probably a little less and be able to increase the amount of time and the
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need or swap out that talent that you need a lot quicker than trying to adjust those four full-time executives on your leadership.
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It really gives you a lot of flexibility, and it turns that overhead into variable for what
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you need at the right time.
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Tim Staton: What do you say about the critics of, "Well, I need to have a strongly developed team, and by
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swapping people out, it's going to cause some chaos on team development"?
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What do you say to that?
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Kristen McAlister: That's an absolutely great question.
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And when you look at the leadership team, if all things were created equal and we at all times,
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our leadership team was growing with the company, that would be fantastic.
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And that leadership could really lead the company into its next stage of growth.
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In most cases, we don't see that.
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We see them all at different stages of development and growth, and we're usually outgrowing
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part of our leadership team. And they're not cohesive.
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They're not leading the company forward.
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The company doesn't have what it's needing.
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And so being able to borrow that leadership and that expertise to show them, "Here's what that
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role looks like, and here's what the expectations are at this next level," we're helping them be more productive.
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We're helping them get the skills sooner than later.
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You can still keep that cohesive team.
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Let's just then borrow some expertise to help them be more successful and the tools to lead forward.
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More times than not, that team is not cohesive, and they need help, or they've been turning
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their leadership team three times in the past four years.
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Tim Staton: Wow. So why exit do you think that the people on the leadership team aren't growing with the company?
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Is it a lack of development?
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Kristen McAlister: I love the military and their development.
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You look at all the schools you've probably been sent to.
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My husband went through the same thing, and he was sent to school not to be prepared for the
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role he was being sent into, always to be prepared for two roles ahead.
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He was being developed for three to five years down the road.
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So we got the training.
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He then got to go practice it, and then he was put into that role.
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We just don't see that in the private sector.
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We don't have the time.
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We don't have the resources.
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So a lot of times it comes down to development and understanding what skills do we need to develop them for?
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We operate on a day-to-day basis for six to twelve months.
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Not only are we not, we may not invest in developing them.
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More than not, I have conversations with CEOs who aren't sure what skills they need their leadership
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team to have two years down the road.
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So we look at, do they have the skills?
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Do they have the ability to develop the skills?
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Do they have the willingness?
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Do they really want to lead a $10 million company, or are they lamenting that we're not a small
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$3 to $5 million company anymore and they miss that?
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Tim Staton: You made an interesting statement.
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They miss being a small company and they don't really want to grow with it.
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What do you think causes that?
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Kristen McAlister: Comfort zones a lot of times, or we're all built differently.
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Some of us love being hands-on, love doing more than they probably should, or they love that growth stage.
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They love creating the processes.
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They love having small teams.
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It is not wrong, and it's not bad.
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Some people love being part of public companies where they're part of a large team with all those resources.
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Some people love being part of private equity-owned because of the structure, because of the metrics.
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We're not all built the same way.
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We don't all, some people love to lead.
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Others cannot imagine managing other people's work product.
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They love being an individual contributor.
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So understanding what drives people and how they want to work and in what environment can really help.
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They may not want to end up being the COO other than they know, "I'm supposed to do that, and
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that's the next part of my career." And that's the more we can make it a lattice and not a latter.
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Get rid of the ladder.
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Let's make it a lattice.
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Where do they want to be developed and growing?
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Where's the company going in the value that they can have?
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It doesn't always mean being a manager or an executive.
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I think we've missed having those conversations early on and understanding that.
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Tim Staton: I love how you said a lattice, not a ladder, because you could grow out and everything else, not necessarily.
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And from my background, so I'm a victim of my own experience or background where it's like, you're always move up.
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You're always, you know, trying to get two levels up at all times because, like your husband,
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I was always trained for two levels up, three levels up, but then you experience move on.
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And so to get this perspective of, like, not everybody wants to move up and give the people
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the ability to move laterally.
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And that's where we have your fractional leadership teams come in.
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So what is the number one benefit besides having immediate expertise from getting a fractional employee or fractional leader?
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Kristen McAlister: As a business owner who's brought in fractional leaders, my personally, my number one benefit,
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I no longer had to have all the answers, which means I didn't have to make it up.
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I didn't have to figure it out.
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I didn't have to do the guessing game.
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I didn't have to do the trial and error.
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Take the development conversation we're having.
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I can bring in a part-time, we can call it a chief human resources officer, or we can call it
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a talent development expert who can look at our organization, pull the information out of us,
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and figure out what does the company need a couple of years from now?
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What's that future state skill sets?
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What's the current state that we have, and what's that development plan?
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And that individual can teach me how to do that on a day-to-day and week-to-week basis, can
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hold me accountable, can teach my team how to do that and help me through those conversations
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because not all of them are fun and comfortable.
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We have to really stretch outside our comfort zone and stretch others outside of it to think ahead.
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And that can be scary.
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So someone can come in and bring those templates and bring that accountability with them and
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then be there as needed, phone call away, and they move on to the next assignment.
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And I just got the, all that experience of their last 10 clients was brought to my company and
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me on a part-time basis.
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I didn't need to, instead, I could hire, let's say, an HR manager who's never done that before
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and is going to be sitting there reading at night or tapping into AI and say, "How do I answer this question?
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And how do I lead this initiative?" That I have never done before.
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Let's just go get the answer key.
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And I don't have to have the answers, and I don't have to set that unrealistic expectation on
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my team to have the answers because most of them, this might be the second company they've worked in.
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Tim Staton: That's a great point. And I'm thinking about being a veteran one day, and we have a lot of veteran-owned businesses out there.
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How can this be beneficial to those types of new small businesses?
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Kristen McAlister: Veteran hiring for small to midsize businesses, let's just start with Giving a Plug Skill Bridge.
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If no one's ever heard of it, take a look at it.
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It is probably one of the most incredible resources for businesses as well as for veterans.
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And that's where, correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a little bit of time, but the last six
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months of service, they're still on the payroll and they're still working inside of the military
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branch, but they're being loaned or leased out to a private company.
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And they worked there for six months.
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And it gives them that bridge, that transition to say, "How do all of these skills, especially
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leadership skills, there's no better leadership development organization than the U.S. military.
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How does that apply to these situations?" And the company gets this incredible skill set.
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They may or may not do some training.
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Here's what it looks like in the civilian life for that six-month period of time. Incredible resource.
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And you can also tap into the, I want to say regiment, help me out with the terminology.
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There's a different breed in veterans.
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I watch my husband, and there's the patience, the discipline, the planning, and the foresight
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that goes into everything he does is the number one skill set I think that veterans have learned
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from their experience, probably the number one skill set that most businesses need.
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And that's that communication, the structure, that discipline to make a plan, work the plan,
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adjust the plan, and then we plan for the next.
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Because you, there is no day-to-day.
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So what are we doing next month?
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What does our budget look like six months from now?
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The budget's like three to five years out.
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Tim Staton: No, absolutely. And I just wanted to back up a little bit because you mentioned Skill Bridge.
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So Skill Bridge did have a change this past year.
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And I just, for everyone listening and watching this, I want to kind of update that.
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So within your last 180 days of service, that window opens up to go into the Skill Bridge program.
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And depending on your rank, so like I've, and below, they have up to six months.
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And as you go up in rank, it gets less and less and less.
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So it goes up to like, I think a minimum of 30 days.
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So your more senior folks are getting 30 days.
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Your junior folks are getting more time to get that exposure and get that transition.
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So I'm really glad that you brought up that program because it's amazing for people to do it.
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And you tie into that skill set as you were talking about.
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When you said that that was, you got the experience of people having the last 10 jobs on the
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board when they came onto your company, what is another practical use case for someone going,
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"Hey, I hear this term. I like it.
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I like what it brings, but I'm not quite sold." What would be that last thing that you would think, "You know what?
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This would really, for you, sold it"?
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Kristen McAlister: It's opportunity cost and capacity.
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I think the, generally when we're having those conversations, we're not needing to talk someone into the solution.
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We're needing to understand what are we solving for?
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And as we talk through those questions and understand what is the pain that that business owner
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is in and what's the opportunity cost of not solving that pain, their marriage, their mental
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health, their time with their children, their business, they've got high turnover.
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Something or a culmination of some things are coming together.
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So understanding, they may say, "I need a VP of sales, fractional VP of sales," and through
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talking through the conversation, that's not the problem we need to solve is closing.
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We need to solve lead generation.
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Salespeople can close, but they just can't bring in the leads.
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This is a marketing problem.
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Let's talk about what that looks like.
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It's like a light bulb goes on.
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And it's this relief of, "I've got something to try." With a low risk, at a low cost, because
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I'm just going to do it incrementally.
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We don't always have to solve the big problem that's going to take six to nine months.
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Let's find something that's maybe six weeks. Let's isolate.
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We don't need to solve all 10.
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Let's do these two first that we know are going to make the biggest impact.
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And let's see how that works.
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Because a lot of times, this is the first time companies are bringing in, say, professional leadership versus homegrown leadership.
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Those people who have, they were our first, second, third hire, and they've grown into being
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that director of operations, and we're about to pull in someone from the outside, which is incredible.
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Quick story, got a CEO where that's what he has.
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He's got a, we're going to call it a management team versus a leadership team.
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And he's so, they're the legacy.
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They've been with him through thick and thin, and he's very loyal to them as they are to him.
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And he doesn't want to bring in someone above them.
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So instead, he's able to bring in someone who can sit side by side, who's worked in any number
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of companies, sit side by side with them, starting with operations, usually the best part, and
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help them figure out where are the gaps, what tools could they use, sit in all the meetings,
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side by side in the trenches, and then walk out and say, "Okay, did you hear what the problem
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was?" And then do that coaching privately.
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That development cycle is going to go from three years to three months being able to do in that.
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And we've done that time and time again where they're about to let go of that individual or
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that individual is drowning, waking up every morning saying, "One of the things I'm going to
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figure out, I am in over my head." And they end up being the star of the show and confident,
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and they get to grow into that.
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And it's a game changer.
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Tim Staton: That is an amazing story that you just, that you just told us.
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And I love that, that they were doing side by side and helping that development on there.
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What do you see the future of this industry looking like?
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Kristen McAlister: Oh, that crystal ball. We've seen the last couple of years just Jay Hook.
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We've seen the amount of executive and leadership talent into the market who wants to have a more flexible career.
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They want to help more companies.
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Or they just want to keep busy.
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They can retire, but they don't want to.
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We're able to see executives retire at 50, 55 these days.
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And, you know, their spouse is saying, "No way." And they have so much to give.
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They all say, "I've got more gas in me." And they want to take all those leadership lessons that they have.
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So we've got that market.
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And then we've got all of the instability, volatility.
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No one knows what's going to happen next year.
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We're not, we used to do five-year planning, then it went to three years, then one year, and
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we're now at three months planning by quarter in some cases, not knowing what's coming ahead.
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I think that ability to really borrow that expertise is going to increase because we're not
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that generalist model of, "I'm going to hire someone for the next five years.
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I'm hoping that they can be that person who has all those skills.
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And if not, we'll develop them." It's like a Walmart or a general supermarket.
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I think we're going more of that European model where you don't get everything at supermarket.
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You go to the butcher shop, you go to the cheese shop, you go to the bread shop, you go to the pastry shop.
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You go because they were trained, they're certified, and there is no one better in their field
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at making that bread or curating that cheese.
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That's what we're going to see at the leadership level is I need the best.
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I need a no-risk option who's going to help me solve for this or help me figure out what I need to solve for.
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And I think all of the forces are coming together and making that possible and easier than ever.
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Tim Staton: And you just took me back to my days in Germany of going to the Metzgerei or the Bäckerei and
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getting that fresh bread in. Like, there's nothing better.
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You just took me back there and I was like, "Yes." And the fact that you're applying that to leadership is even better.
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So I love that you just did that.
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Kristen McAlister: Other than making you really hungry, Tim.
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Tim Staton: No, but it's so true though.
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You know, because when you go to your mechanic, there is a certified mechanic that is certified
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to do what they do.
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Same thing with the bakeries and the butchers, and they're experts.
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And they're truly like almost artists at what they do.
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And it benefits the whole community.
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And the fact that we're doing that with leadership, I love that.
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So what is one piece of advice that you would give a business owner who's considering going into this model?
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Kristen McAlister: Oh, where to begin. I think address the most common roadblock, which is what we talked about at the beginning.
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What do you want your role to be?
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So instead of starting with, "I've got a problem. I'm in pain.
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Let me go solve for that," your decision-making might be a little different after you think
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through, as this company grows, what do I want my role to be?
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What do I enjoy doing?
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What am I great at?
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What am I not so great at?
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And think ahead is where we do get to step back into that childlike state and dream.
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What do I want that newspaper headline to look at?
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Look like three years, five years from now.
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Why did I originally start this company?
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And has my why changed?
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What do I want to be?
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What do I want my role to be?
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Now I can start having very intentional conversations.
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I'm not trying to find someone who can just solve for this right here.
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I can have conversations about, "Here's what I want my role to be.
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Here's where I want it to be at." What's your experience in that? Let's have that conversation.
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And through those, you're not interviewing anymore. You're learning.
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It's a discovery and exploration process.
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And you're solving for that end state, not just the pain that you're in right now.
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And it's a game changer.
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Tim Staton: That's a great piece of advice that you just gave everybody.
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For everybody listening and watching to this, you're going to be able to find all the links
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to Kristen in the description of this episode.
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But I do want to highlight one thing, if you don't mind talking about it for a little bit.
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So you have your own podcast as well called She Owns It.
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Do you mind talking about that a little bit?
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Kristen McAlister: Yeah. It's in development. I love podcasting.
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It's the concept of interviewing someone and pulling out their stories and being able to have
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others learn from it and experience saying, "It's not just me." Wow, that's a game changer.
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We've been doing that on Serious Leadership Podcast for a number of years.
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And the more I talk to female business owners and hearing their stories, hearing their struggles
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and their wins, something inside of me said, "I need to give a platform to those stories.
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We need to pull those out." So I'm transitioning and launching She Owns It, which is female
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business owners sharing their, not just their journeys, but their dreams and aspirations, what
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they want to accomplish, and how they've done that with their business and their personal life
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to be able to, for those of us listening saying, "It's not just me.
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I wanted to quit and sell that business every single day for three months, just like her." How
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did she get through that?
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The more we talk about it, the more we can normalize it, the more we're able to help each other.
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Tim Staton: And I'm glad that you're getting that platform together and sharing it out there.
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And as soon as you have it available, I'll put it in the description of this as well.
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And so my last question is, is there anything that I didn't ask you about or talk about that
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you're like, "You know what?
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I really wish you would ask me this question or that we had talked about this one thing."
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Kristen McAlister: I would say, given you're in the military and transitioning, we talked about veterans transitioning.
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I would say the, when I say start at the end for CEOs and what do they want to do, go through
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that same process as you're transitioning out of the military.
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What is, you get to choose where you live, what you do.
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There's a bit more freedom.
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And sometimes that can be debilitating.
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Sometimes that can be freeing.
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Sitting down with my husband for two to three years prior and mapping out, what do we want the
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next season of our life to look like?
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What do we want that next five years?
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What did he enjoy about the military? We started there.
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And as we worked backwards, he looked at everything else, but what he was going to do next was plain and clear.
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And that was be a teacher.
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He was able to transition to being a high school teacher.
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And again, that checked all the marks.
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It wasn't sitting there saying, "Which of these five career options?" We started at the end.
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And anytime we start there and work backwards, some of those decisions and choices become absolutely clear.
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So I'd say apply that same thing to that next stage and that next season of your lives, whether
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you are a corporate executive, transitioning military veteran, or do you just feel stuck right now?
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Play that next five years in a video.
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And what to do next becomes a lot clearer.
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Tim Staton: And I can't think of a better way to end that. So thank you.
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And for everybody watching this, thank you for watching and tuning into this.
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You'll be able to get a hold of Kristen again and everything in the links in the description.
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And Kristen, thank you so much for stopping by.
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Kristen McAlister: Thank you for letting me share and all that you are doing to support business owners and veterans out there. It's incredible, Tim. Thank you.
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Tim Staton: Thank you. As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
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I really hope that you enjoyed it.
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Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
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If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
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If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
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bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll
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be alerted, please go ahead and do all that before you go.
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If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
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spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
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here today, but may not have found our show yet.
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Again, thanks for stopping by.
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I'm Tim Staton, Staton the Obvious.