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This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious. What is this podcast about? It's simple. You
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are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's to work,
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whether it's at your house. You are entitled to great leadership. And so in this podcast. We
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take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice. And a
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quick disclaimer. The show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
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does not necessarily constitute and reply and endorse of anyone that I employed by or favors
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in the representation. The views expressed here in my show are my own express and do not necessarily
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say or affect those of any
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Hey, Russell. Welcome back to the show.
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Hey, thanks. I'm glad to be back.
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Glad to have you here. Hey, leaders. So I just wanna do a quick recap, because we've done several
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of the series now. And so we started the series off with the idea that there is a difference
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between management and leadership. And In leaders, we have to have the ability to have a vision
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and to be able to take risk. And those risks come with some unwanted consequences or side effects,
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And that is uncomfortable feelings and fear. And then we talked about how we have to overcome
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fear by developing courage, and then deal with our with those unwanted consequences and side
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effects, which is our feelings. And that's what we talked about in our last episode, is how
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important it is to be able to deal with our feelings and our emotions. And you provide a really
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great model on how to understand that and sift through ourselves and, to work through it and
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becoming on masters of our own emotions and of others. So in this episode, what are we gonna
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be talking about?
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Right. So what we're gonna talk about is generating power. So the essence of of leadership,
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of course, is, you know, you have a vision, you need to go towards it. And the way to get there,
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one of the things that you need to be able to do is to be powerful. To be and by power and I'm
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gonna talk a little bit more about what power is or have a good definition of it. But, essentially,
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your power is the ability to create the results that you want. Right? If you don't have that
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power, lead. You're not gonna succeed as a leader.
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Yeah. And and so when when you talk about generating power, you're talking about generating
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the results that you want. Can you kinda go a little bit more into that on what you mean by that?
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Yeah. Thanks. So power is a word that is used a little bit Sloppily, if you would. And what
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I'd like to do is provide a little bit more nuance to it so we really know what we're talking
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about. So what I'd like to do is distinguish power from force and from authority. Okay? So force
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is when somebody Somebody is is, in a situation to force you to do something. The obvious thing
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is somebody pulls a gun on you and says, You know, your money or your life. You're gonna turn
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turn over your money. That person is deploying force. Of course, there are other ways than guns
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that force can be you know, they they certainly be economic force, cultural force, and and and
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whatnot. But I don't wanna call that power Because the more nuance that we can bring here, the
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more effectively we can use these words and understand them. So that's force. Authority is is,
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a position. So if you're elected chair of the board of an organization, all of a sudden, you've
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been given authority. If you're a boss, you have the authority to determine what tasks get done
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and does get done, who who stays, who's fired, or whatever. That is authority. Right. It comes
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with an office. Power, what I'm how I'm defining it now, power is your capability to produce
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the results you want. Okay. No one can give you power and no one can take power away from you.
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Power is self generated or it's given up. We very frequently disempower ourselves. Right? So
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there are many people in positions of authority who are not powerful. You know, we call them
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weak leaders or weak bosses. So you can have authority, but you don't necessarily have power.
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On the reverse is you can be powerful. You can make things happen. Alright. And not be in a
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position of authority. And key to or you can also be a very weak person with a gun, so you you
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could You can deploy force and not be a powerful person. Right? You don't your your life may
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be a mass, in which case it's a good indication you don't have personal power there. Right.
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So making those distinctions and then giving the definition of power is something that you generate
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or that you fail to generate. The focus on our session here today is how do you generate power?
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Right? How do you generate the capacity To produce the results that you want in your life without
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pulling guns or without, you know, having a position of authority. Does that make sense? What
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are your thoughts there, Timothy?
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No. It makes it makes really good sense actually on on how you laid it out there. And so the
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this really kind of provoked a thought that I had about how you have those who are not in positions
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of authority that seemingly still have that leadership quality about them because they can influence
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other people to make things happen. And if and if we're equating power to the ability to make
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things happen. You know, and it's something that we generate. I never honestly looked at it
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that way, and I think that's a great way to look at it. Because If we're generating our own
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power, you know, my my question is is, you know, how how do we start in generating our own power?
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If we don't know where to start, Where do we start with generating our own power?
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Perfect question. Perfect question. So the first step in generating power is to take responsibility.
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To say, alright. I'm responsible for the results I pull I create in my life. Our tendency this
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is standard human tendency is that when we're not getting the results we want. We blame something
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outside of ourselves. We could be blaming the weather. We can be blaming our boss. We can be
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blaming our spouse. She made me angry. Right. That's giving away your power over your feelings.
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She made me angry. Right? So as soon as you put it over onto her, There's nothing you can do
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except yell at her. Right? So you're the the the technical term is you're giving, You're putting
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the locus of power outside of yourself as opposed to putting the locus of power inside of yourself.
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In a coaching, the distinction here, this is a key distinction is either you're at effect. So
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you're at effect of something outside of yourself. I'm out of effect of my wife or I'm out of
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effect of my boss or I'm out of effect of the of the weather or I'm at cause. So I'm gonna cause
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the the results I want in my life. Okay. So this is A lens to look through. It's not the truth.
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It's not how the world really works. It's just a way of looking at the world That starts you
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generating your own power.
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So I'm I'm reminded of the words have meaning. And I and I don't know if you've heard, that
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that saying often. I know I have in my career. When either we write things or we say things
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and People are like, hey, you know what? Words have meaning. That's not the right word that
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we wanna use there. And then, that also reminds me of, you know, how we address things and the
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way we say them could also relate to how we give away power, versus, like, you know, what you
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said that, oh, you know, my wife made me mad or my coworker made me mad. So what would be a
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better way of framing that to help us shift our mindset from retaining power but still assigning
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the right cause and effect relationship to something.
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Well, yeah. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the cause and effect relationship, but if we
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just take that one example of somebody else Made me mad. Right? So you're being at effect to
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someone else. You're giving away power. You're giving away the power of to somebody else to
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control your feelings, to determine who what your feelings are. It's a total disempowerment.
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What's really happening in that situation is somebody, let's just call him Joe, Joe did something
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That you assessed as as, wrong. You made an assessment. You made a judgment that what Joe did
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or said was wrong or disrespectful to you. Right? And from that assessment or that interpretation
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of what Joe said, You generated the feeling of anger. You generated the feeling of anger. So
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if you remember from episode 3 when we were talking about feelings, that our feelings come from
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our interpretation of an event. So Joe did something, We interpret that event as bad or or or
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disrespectful or wrong. Right? And then we generated our anger From that assessment that we
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made of what Joe did. Right? So it's a little complex, but we're responsible for our feelings
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because we're responsible for interpretations. And in any respect, whatever our interpretation
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is, we're still responsible for our feelings. We created our own feeling there. Joe did not.
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And the the point though the point is is not so much whether the cause effect, whether it's
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true, whether, you know, we're we're we're we're We're, you know, it's we're following some
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law of the universe. The effect is is that if we assign Joe, the responsibility over our feelings,
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we're giving away power. And that's what we don't wanna do. We wanna say, okay. I'm angry now
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at what Joe did. I've created my own anger here. What am I going to do with it? What are the
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results I want from this situation? That's generating power.
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Right. So so when we generate the power and we we understand that, what is the next step into
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under after we take responsibility for our own our own perspective. What is the next step?
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Yeah. So the next step is to ask, sorry, what are the results that we want in this situation?
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Right. If Joe's a good friend, you know, maybe the results are is we just wanna communicate
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to him that what he said didn't work for you And wondering whether there's a request in there,
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for example. Hey, Joe. I prefer that you not speak about my wife that way. You know, I'm just
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making this up. And Joe says, Joe will say what Joe says, but if our goal here is to communicate
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to To Joe, how how you reacted to what he said and to keep the relationship or to even deepen
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the relationship. You know, you communicate in a certain way. Right? What you said didn't work
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for me. I found it upsetting. My request is that you don't talk that way in the future, and
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Joe can say yes or no. And if he says no, I'm gonna continue talking that way in the future,
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then You have a decision to make. Is that a friend friend you wanna keep or not? But you wanna
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always act coming back to your question, you always wanna act from What are the results that
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I want and what are the actions that I can take to produce those results? The old way, If Joe
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makes me mad, right, then the only way you have to get the results you want is to yell at Joe,
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And then the results you're gonna get are probably a decayed relationship.
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That that's very interesting on on, you know, how how we come about that because, you know,
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you talk about I'm I'm also thinking about our last episode where we talked about emotions and
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that that, same framework is, you know, we gotta take responsibility, and then we gotta look
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at the results that we want and take action on those results. So how often then, I guess, do
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you find I know the answer is probably gonna be every day because you you talk to people every
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day. But how do we keep how do we keep ourselves out of a victim mentality and keep us into
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the retaining power mentality when it comes to interaction.
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Yeah. So it's it's difficult and the answer is practice. Right. 1, you need to accept responsibilities
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there. I'm gonna be responsible for a 100% of the results I get in life. Right. Now clearly
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circumstances are going to happen. You know, it's gonna rain on your picnic or or a meteor is
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gonna hit your house or whatever that you don't have, quote, unquote control over, but you have
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control over how you respond to those situations. Right? You have, and it's that that you wanna
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take on. What do I need to do Coming back, what do I need to do to get the results I want? If
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we're blaming our boss or, you know, a classic example I get is my boss It's over controlling
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or my boss micromanages me or my boss is dominating me. Right? You know, to be quite frank,
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your boss can only dominate you if you're dominatable. Right? So what do you need to do To start
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generating the power, to assert boundaries, to stand up for yourself, to advocate for yourself,
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and tell your boss that, hey. This doesn't work. Let's see if we can find something else that
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that works so that you and I have a good working relationship. But as long as we're blaming
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somebody else, we almost we we, By definition, put ourselves into victim mode. I'm a victim
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of that person. We like this is really key here about generating power is that we like being
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victims. We like being victims because we get to be righteous It's about the harm that's being
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done to us. Let me say that again. We get to be righteous. We get to feel this charge of righteousness
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in us When when somebody else we perceive somebody else, injuring us in some way. So we get
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that charge of of righteousness, which we really feast on, we really love, but we also get to
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not take responsibility. We don't have do anything if we're the victim. So that's what victimhood
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buys us. We get that that good charge of of righteousness. We get to talk to all of our friends
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about how we've been victimized by this person or that person or this social structure or that
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social structure, and we don't have to take responsibility. And what we get by not taking responsibility,
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of course, is we don't have to be exposed. We don't have to, going back to episode 2, we don't
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have to generate courage because it's scary to take responsibility. We have to go out there
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and we have to expose ourselves. We have to expose ourselves to, you You know, maybe physical
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threats to financial threats or most frequently in this world, in our world today is we have
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to expose ourselves to emotional threats. Somebody may say no. Somebody may say you're a fool.
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Somebody may argue and fight with you. Right? That's the exposure that we get to avoid By being
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a victim. Victimhood by definition is a person who's given up power. I'm giving my power away
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to somebody else.
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So is this something that you have found to be recent, or is this a common theme that has been
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going on for years.
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Yeah. That's a good good point. So I can't answer with any degree of authority, you know, Historical
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authority. But my guess is that we have always gone into victimhood. Because if you look at
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fights, You know, arguments that people have had, you know, 2000 years ago. There's always the
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sense of you did something bad to me. Right. But you're right. There's now it's part of the
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zeitgeist here in the United States. This this Culture of victimhood where the degree to which
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you are a victim raises your status. So, apparently and and I have not seen this, Personally,
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but apparently on, say, TikTok or other social media, there is a, There's an attempt to outvictim
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your buddies. I'm a victim of this. I'm a victim of that. You know, That may or may not be true.
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I'm just not aware of it. But the the larger point is that those people, by by seeing themselves
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as victims, are diminishing The richness of their lives or the capability of living a really good life.
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No. That that's a that's a great point. And, I mean, I'm on social media quite a lot, by nature
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of of posting and and and the show and research and everything else that I do, you know, for
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topics. So there is a degree of of victimization, and then there also is a degree of, you know,
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kinda like tabloid ness to that. You know, you're standing at the grocery line and you see the
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tabloids and you say, you know, kid born with bat wings and, you know, oh my goodness. You need
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to look at it. So So there is so there is, like, that, you know, type of mentality to it. But
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I also agree with you that there is a increase within victimhood. And I'm wondering if that's
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because, like you said, you know, we get some righteousness out of of being able to say, hey,
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somebody did me harm and and I am correct. And then you you also bring up that you don't also
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take responsibility and it either because somebody else did something to you that's beyond your
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control. And as we stay on this topic of maintaining our power, and also coming from a place
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of power to get things done. You know, you talked about taking responsibility. So In situations
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like that, and we take responsibility, and we look at the end results that we want. And you
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gave a great example of the boss, you know, being over dominating to you. What is another common
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example, that you can provide that might resonate with somebody of, you know what? I do that,
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and I don't realize I do that.
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Well, A good a good example and maybe some of the listeners are are starting to yell at the
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at the at their, I don't use radios anymore. Whatever they're streaming at their speakers here
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is there are circumstances that happen over which you have no control. I said, you know, the
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meteor in your house or or raining on your picnic. Right? And the question becomes of, well,
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I am a victim. So you're walking down the street and somebody mugs you, you know, pulls a gun
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and takes your money. I'm a victim. How do I generate power in that situation? Like, how do
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I generate power in a situation where the circumstances totally out of my control in some way
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injured me. Why aren't I a victim there? And I would say this, yes, you're a victim there, What
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we don't wanna do is then stay in our victimhood. The question is, We were mugged. How do we
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respond in a way that generates power as opposed to gives up gives away power? Giving away power
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might be, hey. I'm never walking in the city again. Right? Or I don't trust men. Say it's a
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man that loved you. I'm not gonna trust men or I'm gonna stay home or, you know, the the victimhood
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might be that that they're whining and complaining to their friends for the next with 5 years
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about being mugged and losing $40. If you come from a point of view or from the lens of being
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a cause, The question then becomes is what are the results I want? I've just been mugged. It
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was really terrifying. It was really scary. What do I need to do? Right? What kind of life do
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I wanna lead as a result of that? Right? And what are the actions I needed to take to get there?
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So it may well be Right. They said they asked, what did I do and what way am I responsible for
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being bugged? Was I walking down a dark street, You know, in the dead of night, in a place that
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I knew to be dangerous? Okay. What do I need to change my how do I think to change my behavior
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so that I don't become a target of a mugging. Right? There's been evidence shown that people
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that that are walked with great intention down the street staring ahead are less likely to mug
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than people kinda wander down the street looking at all the sites. Right? Maybe I need to walk
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down the street with more attention. Right? So you can sit and say, What do I need to do in
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the future not to be mugged? And and there's some people say, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna get
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a pistol and and and, you know, I've concealed carry. Somebody pulls a gun on me, I pull a gun
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on them. So that might right. Those might be those might be ways those are those are ways of
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being a cause. What do I need to do differently so it doesn't happen again? So that's pre. And
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then the post is how do I how do I heal from this traumatic experience. How do I recover from
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this traumatic experience so it does not impact me? It does not lessen my enjoyment of life.
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So again, you know, in answer to your question, a real common way we become victims is when
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circumstances out of our control impact our life. Our power comes in responding in such a way
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to those circumstances that enhances our life as opposed to diminishes Does that make sense?
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No. It makes this makes really good sense on being able to recognize the difference. And you
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bring up a a very difficult, thing that you mentioned that people need to do, and that is, you
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know, what portion of responsibility do I need to take? Oftentimes, I hear, well, you can't
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revictimize the victim. That's that's not okay to do. But sometimes, maybe, we do need to take
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an honest look of what happened, look at the facts, and then take responsibility for what needs
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to be responsible for. Right?
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So, yeah, you're you're you you put your finger on a really, really good issue. And I wanna
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make a distinction between blaming and taking responsibility. And often people conflate or,
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you know, put the 2 together that to take responsibility is to blame somebody. Blaming is not
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a a way of generating power. Blaming when we blame somebody else, what we do is we generate
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righteousness again. I'm right. You're wrong. Right? That kind of way of dealing with people,
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I'm right, you're wrong, doesn't work. It's another kind of, Yeah. It just doesn't work. You
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don't you're not producing results unless what you wanna do is feel, hey. I'm better than you.
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If those are the results you want in your life, great. You're doing exactly the right thing.
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But that doesn't strengthen a relationship and it doesn't help somebody else generate their
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power. You're not making a contribution to that person. So so that's the one thing. The other
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thing is that there are a lot of people who think I wanna do what I wanna do regardless Of the,
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because I think the world should work this way. I think I should be able to drive my, you know,
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fancy BMW into a dangerous neighborhood and leave the keys in the ignition and then come back
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a day later and find the the car still there with the key still in the ignition. Right? Not
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likely to happen. That's not the way the world works. That may be the way we want the world
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to work, but that's not the way the world works. So a more powerful Way of being there is to
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say, alright. I'm gonna take precautions not to have my car stolen by not parking in that neighborhood
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and taking the keys with me. Right. So it frequently shows up between male and female relationships.
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Some young woman goes to a fat party, gets drunk, and gets raped. Alright. That's a crime. There's
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no way of justifying that crime. The question I'd ask is if that woman wanted to be at cause
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for her life and she did not And the results you wanted was not to be raped. What kind of ways
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could she manage herself such To diminish that. Right? Wear certain kinds of clothes. Go with
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a buddy. Don't drink so much. Don't go to frat parties or whatever. We would all like to live
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in a world where people didn't get raped, but that's not the way the world works. Right? So
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The question I had asked the question that I'd asked the young woman is what are the results
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you want, and what actions do you need to take To get those results. No blame. Just power and responsibility.
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Yeah. And I I think that's a really hard distinction. May maybe more in this day and age, but
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I would think that's a really hard distinction that we need to make between giving blame and
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assuming ability for the things that we need to take responsibility for. So another question
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I have then is, how often do you experience rationalizing away, not taking responsibility.
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Like, daily. I mean, my whole business is pretty my whole coaching business is predicated on
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that that people People don't wanna take responsibility or they rationalize it away. I'm, I'm
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working with a No. No. Well, so a real common And this comes back to, again, episodes 23 a lot.
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If somebody We'll see something that's not working in their organization. Okay? Their boss is
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doing something that they don't like or they even think that what the boss is doing is injurious
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to a project they're working on. Right? And so taking responsibility would be generating power
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and going to the boss and say, hey. When you're doing x, it makes it more difficult for me to
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do what we said we wanna do. Right? But that's scary. You're talking to your boss. You're exposing
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yourself. The boss may say, no. May you know, may may you may be wrong, actually. Or, You know,
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the boss has authority over years, so there might be some threat there. So the person will rationalize.
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I'm not gonna do it because it's his responsibility to do the do the things right. It's not
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me to tell him what to do. Right. That's a classic sense of abdicating responsibility, giving
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up power, you know, giving up power to your boss We're giving you a part of the situation because
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you're afraid of feeling uncomfortable. Right? That's, again, Episode 2 is where we have to
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build courage here. Does that answer your question or are you thinking of something else?
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No. I mean, that that answers the question. But I'm also was thinking of, you know, oftentimes
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when we rationalize a way A behavior. Right? To make it right. But let's say there's something,
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you know, that, I I guess a real world tangible, example of how somebody rationalizes away Giving
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away or not wanting to take responsibility. Like, I can't possibly take responsibility for this
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because of x, y, and z. Like, this. It just isn't my responsibility to take responsibility for
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because it's for somebody else. So you mentioned that boss, employee relationship. But what
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about, like, on a peer to peer level? Because even with power, you know, the ability to make
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things happen. Just because you're not in an authoritative role, doesn't mean you can't be a
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leader to to make things happen. So on a peer to peer level, what would that look like?
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Yeah. So so a common example is when when one of your peers, you know, maybe a friend, a coworker,
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does something that you don't like or think is wrong, and you don't talk to them about it. You
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don't sit down and have a good kind you know, a good conversation about what didn't work, about
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what that person did, what your concerns are around that, and, you know, making a request to
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do something different or to stop that behavior. And the rationalization will be, usually, we
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go into victimhood. Right? I'm a victim. He's injured me or he's doing something wrong to me.
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But the a rationalization there could be that it's none of my business. Right? Or he's mean
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or what we start doing is going to these what are what we call cognitive distortions. We start
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exaggerating the threat. Right. So we could catastrophize. If I go to the if I go to Joe and
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I'm telling him that what he did, didn't work for me, He's gonna get really angry and break
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off the friendship. You know, that's catastrophizing. Or, you know, real catastrophizing. He's
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gonna slug me. You know, that could be catastrophizing. Another really common rationalization
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is we we do mind reading. We think we know what other somebody else is thinking. Right. And
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that mind reading, like, I could say, I think that, Joe was just doing the best he could or
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Joe Joe was thinking that he was trying to help me. That mind reading often gives us permission
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not to act. Right. We think we know what somebody else is thinking, and what we think we know
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gives us permission not to act. It's another way of giving up power. So those are 2 really common
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kinds of rationalizations.
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Those are really great points. Having listened to everything, and I'm and I'm just thinking
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here, if I'm listening to this for the first time, never hearing about it, never never really
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thinking about it. And I go, you know what? If I'm gonna retain power in my life and, you know,
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I gotta take responsibility, and then I gotta think about the results that I want and then act
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accordingly to achieve that outcome. So you're you're kind of asking a lot of somebody, how
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do I start that week today. Like, what is there is there a tool that I can use right now today
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to put that into effect and start that?
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There is. There's one thing I'd like to catch in your language there, if I could. You said,
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how do I retain power? Yeah. You said, how do I retain power? I like to swap out retain for
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generate. Right? Because you may not have power to begin with. How do we generate power? How
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do we create power? Right. How do we be powerful? Right? So it's a generative process as opposed
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to a retaining process, Which I see is a little bit more passive. Step 1 step 1 is Ask yourself,
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am I in any situation where you're not getting the results you want in your life, Whatever it
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is with your boss, with your spouse, with your kids, you know, with with, you know, with your
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bloody car, you know, it's breaking down all the time. The question to ask is, okay. What am
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I doing to to contribute to this situation and what can I do to change or mitigate the situation?
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Right? So this the question starts with what can I do? As soon as you say this person's responsible
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or that person needs to do this, you're giving up power. You're making somebody else, when you're
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making somebody else responsible for the for the results, you're giving away your power.
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No. That makes perfect sense. So I I kinda wanna to to wrap this up, here and and kind of go
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over a couple of things. And you laid out a really, really good, framework on how to generate
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power and and start and and put that into practice and exercise today. And then you make a really
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great point of you have to practice this. Right? You have it has to be a conscious thought starting
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today Moving forward, you have to be intentional about your thought process and you have to
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be intentional about what you're doing. So if you were to summarize this up And a quick, you
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know, 1 minute to 45 second, how would you summarize, today's episode?
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Alright. To be a leader, you need to be powerful. Powerful does not mean force or domination
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or authority. Power is something that only you can generate for yourself or you give up or surrender.
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No one can take it from you. Alright? Understand that. You're you're only person who can generate
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power for yourself, and you're the only one who can surrender or give it away to someone else.
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So step number 2 then is to be a cause in every area of your life. Or to take out the jargon,
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Everywhere that you're getting getting results, you see what it is that I'm producing that that
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produces those results, what I'm doing to produce those results. But more importantly, every
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area where you're not getting results you want, you wanna ask yourself, what am I doing that's
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not getting results that I want and what do I need to do in order to get those results. Right?
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That's the essence of power. What can I do? What do I need to do to get the results I want?
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That's the essence. Okay? Anytime you see yourself blaming somebody else, assigning responsibility
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elsewhere for the your results, whatever, even if it's Whether it's God or whatever, as soon
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as you're doing that, you're surrendering power. Right? And I'm not gonna say there's anything
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good or bad about surrendering power. It's just that you're gonna get different results in your life.
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No. Absolutely. And I really appreciate that. And and Russell, thank you for being on the show,
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and thank you for doing this 4 part miniseries with us. I would like to ask everybody, if you
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got value out of what Russell brought to the into the table here over the last couple weeks.
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Go in the links down below. And in the links in the description of this episode, you have, his
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books and you have his website for coaching. Additionally, if you listen to this and you're
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like, you know what? I think I wanna be a leadership coach. Russell, you offer that, don't you?
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I I offer 2 things. 1, I I certainly offer to coach leaders. If you want to be a more effective
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leader, you know, come work with me. But I also offer a coach training program. The new one
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will start at the end of March. And this coach training program is the most effective way to
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step into your leadership. And that may may not make sense. Why does becoming a coach make me
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a better leader? Good question. Give me a ring, and we'll talk about it. I absolutely guarantee
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you to improve your leadership.
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Alright, Russell. Thank thank you for sharing that, and I hope everyone got some value out of
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this. If you did get some value out of this and you wanna Ask a question or provide a comment,
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please do so below. Go to YouTube, Tim State in the obvious or right below this one and and
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00:35:01,032 --> 00:35:05,008
comment on there. Or you go to timstateintheobvious com and leave a message on there. And any
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00:35:05,008 --> 00:35:09,072
messages that I get, for Russell, I will definitely pass your way on there, and I really appreciate
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you coming on the show in sharing this stuff with us. So, again, thank you so
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much. Hey. Thank you, Tim.
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As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it. I hope
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that you enjoyed it. Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could. If you could please
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share this episode with 1 or 2 people who you think might like this topic. If you haven't followed
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or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the bells and icons and all
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the whistles so that you know that When we post another episode, you'll be alerted. Please go
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ahead and do all that before you go. If you got some value out of this episode, please leave
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a review or a comment so we can help spread the show to other people who might be interested
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in the topics that we've talked about here today, but may not have found our show yet. Again,
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thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Stain, update the
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obvious.
00:00:02,072 --> 00:00:08,063
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious. What is this podcast about? It's simple. You
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are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's to work,
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00:00:14,053 --> 00:00:19,024
whether it's at your house. You are entitled to great leadership. And so in this podcast. We
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00:00:19,024 --> 00:00:25,056
take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice. And a
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quick disclaimer. The show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
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does not necessarily constitute and reply and endorse of anyone that I employed by or favors
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in the representation. The views expressed here in my show are my own express and do not necessarily
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say or affect those of any
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Hey, Russell. Welcome back to the show.
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Hey, thanks. I'm glad to be back.
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Glad to have you here. Hey, leaders. So I just wanna do a quick recap, because we've done several
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of the series now. And so we started the series off with the idea that there is a difference
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between management and leadership. And In leaders, we have to have the ability to have a vision
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and to be able to take risk. And those risks come with some unwanted consequences or side effects,
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And that is uncomfortable feelings and fear. And then we talked about how we have to overcome
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fear by developing courage, and then deal with our with those unwanted consequences and side
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effects, which is our feelings. And that's what we talked about in our last episode, is how
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important it is to be able to deal with our feelings and our emotions. And you provide a really
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great model on how to understand that and sift through ourselves and, to work through it and
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becoming on masters of our own emotions and of others. So in this episode, what are we gonna
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be talking about?
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Right. So what we're gonna talk about is generating power. So the essence of of leadership,
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of course, is, you know, you have a vision, you need to go towards it. And the way to get there,
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one of the things that you need to be able to do is to be powerful. To be and by power and I'm
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gonna talk a little bit more about what power is or have a good definition of it. But, essentially,
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your power is the ability to create the results that you want. Right? If you don't have that
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power, lead. You're not gonna succeed as a leader.
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Yeah. And and so when when you talk about generating power, you're talking about generating
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the results that you want. Can you kinda go a little bit more into that on what you mean by that?
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Yeah. Thanks. So power is a word that is used a little bit Sloppily, if you would. And what
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I'd like to do is provide a little bit more nuance to it so we really know what we're talking
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about. So what I'd like to do is distinguish power from force and from authority. Okay? So force
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is when somebody Somebody is is, in a situation to force you to do something. The obvious thing
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is somebody pulls a gun on you and says, You know, your money or your life. You're gonna turn
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turn over your money. That person is deploying force. Of course, there are other ways than guns
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that force can be you know, they they certainly be economic force, cultural force, and and and
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whatnot. But I don't wanna call that power Because the more nuance that we can bring here, the
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more effectively we can use these words and understand them. So that's force. Authority is is,
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a position. So if you're elected chair of the board of an organization, all of a sudden, you've
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been given authority. If you're a boss, you have the authority to determine what tasks get done
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and does get done, who who stays, who's fired, or whatever. That is authority. Right. It comes
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with an office. Power, what I'm how I'm defining it now, power is your capability to produce
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the results you want. Okay. No one can give you power and no one can take power away from you.
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Power is self generated or it's given up. We very frequently disempower ourselves. Right? So
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there are many people in positions of authority who are not powerful. You know, we call them
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weak leaders or weak bosses. So you can have authority, but you don't necessarily have power.
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On the reverse is you can be powerful. You can make things happen. Alright. And not be in a
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position of authority. And key to or you can also be a very weak person with a gun, so you you
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could You can deploy force and not be a powerful person. Right? You don't your your life may
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be a mass, in which case it's a good indication you don't have personal power there. Right.
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So making those distinctions and then giving the definition of power is something that you generate
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or that you fail to generate. The focus on our session here today is how do you generate power?
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Right? How do you generate the capacity To produce the results that you want in your life without
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pulling guns or without, you know, having a position of authority. Does that make sense? What
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are your thoughts there, Timothy?
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No. It makes it makes really good sense actually on on how you laid it out there. And so the
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this really kind of provoked a thought that I had about how you have those who are not in positions
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of authority that seemingly still have that leadership quality about them because they can influence
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other people to make things happen. And if and if we're equating power to the ability to make
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things happen. You know, and it's something that we generate. I never honestly looked at it
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that way, and I think that's a great way to look at it. Because If we're generating our own
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power, you know, my my question is is, you know, how how do we start in generating our own power?
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If we don't know where to start, Where do we start with generating our own power?
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Perfect question. Perfect question. So the first step in generating power is to take responsibility.
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To say, alright. I'm responsible for the results I pull I create in my life. Our tendency this
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is standard human tendency is that when we're not getting the results we want. We blame something
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outside of ourselves. We could be blaming the weather. We can be blaming our boss. We can be
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blaming our spouse. She made me angry. Right. That's giving away your power over your feelings.
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She made me angry. Right? So as soon as you put it over onto her, There's nothing you can do
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except yell at her. Right? So you're the the the technical term is you're giving, You're putting
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the locus of power outside of yourself as opposed to putting the locus of power inside of yourself.
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In a coaching, the distinction here, this is a key distinction is either you're at effect. So
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you're at effect of something outside of yourself. I'm out of effect of my wife or I'm out of
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effect of my boss or I'm out of effect of the of the weather or I'm at cause. So I'm gonna cause
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the the results I want in my life. Okay. So this is A lens to look through. It's not the truth.
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It's not how the world really works. It's just a way of looking at the world That starts you
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generating your own power.
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So I'm I'm reminded of the words have meaning. And I and I don't know if you've heard, that
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that saying often. I know I have in my career. When either we write things or we say things
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and People are like, hey, you know what? Words have meaning. That's not the right word that
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we wanna use there. And then, that also reminds me of, you know, how we address things and the
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way we say them could also relate to how we give away power, versus, like, you know, what you
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said that, oh, you know, my wife made me mad or my coworker made me mad. So what would be a
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better way of framing that to help us shift our mindset from retaining power but still assigning
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the right cause and effect relationship to something.
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Well, yeah. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the cause and effect relationship, but if we
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just take that one example of somebody else Made me mad. Right? So you're being at effect to
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someone else. You're giving away power. You're giving away the power of to somebody else to
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control your feelings, to determine who what your feelings are. It's a total disempowerment.
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What's really happening in that situation is somebody, let's just call him Joe, Joe did something
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That you assessed as as, wrong. You made an assessment. You made a judgment that what Joe did
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or said was wrong or disrespectful to you. Right? And from that assessment or that interpretation
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of what Joe said, You generated the feeling of anger. You generated the feeling of anger. So
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if you remember from episode 3 when we were talking about feelings, that our feelings come from
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our interpretation of an event. So Joe did something, We interpret that event as bad or or or
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disrespectful or wrong. Right? And then we generated our anger From that assessment that we
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made of what Joe did. Right? So it's a little complex, but we're responsible for our feelings
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because we're responsible for interpretations. And in any respect, whatever our interpretation
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is, we're still responsible for our feelings. We created our own feeling there. Joe did not.
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And the the point though the point is is not so much whether the cause effect, whether it's
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true, whether, you know, we're we're we're we're We're, you know, it's we're following some
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law of the universe. The effect is is that if we assign Joe, the responsibility over our feelings,
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we're giving away power. And that's what we don't wanna do. We wanna say, okay. I'm angry now
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at what Joe did. I've created my own anger here. What am I going to do with it? What are the
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results I want from this situation? That's generating power.
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Right. So so when we generate the power and we we understand that, what is the next step into
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under after we take responsibility for our own our own perspective. What is the next step?
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Yeah. So the next step is to ask, sorry, what are the results that we want in this situation?
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Right. If Joe's a good friend, you know, maybe the results are is we just wanna communicate
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to him that what he said didn't work for you And wondering whether there's a request in there,
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for example. Hey, Joe. I prefer that you not speak about my wife that way. You know, I'm just
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making this up. And Joe says, Joe will say what Joe says, but if our goal here is to communicate
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to To Joe, how how you reacted to what he said and to keep the relationship or to even deepen
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the relationship. You know, you communicate in a certain way. Right? What you said didn't work
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for me. I found it upsetting. My request is that you don't talk that way in the future, and
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Joe can say yes or no. And if he says no, I'm gonna continue talking that way in the future,
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then You have a decision to make. Is that a friend friend you wanna keep or not? But you wanna
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always act coming back to your question, you always wanna act from What are the results that
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I want and what are the actions that I can take to produce those results? The old way, If Joe
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makes me mad, right, then the only way you have to get the results you want is to yell at Joe,
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And then the results you're gonna get are probably a decayed relationship.
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That that's very interesting on on, you know, how how we come about that because, you know,
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you talk about I'm I'm also thinking about our last episode where we talked about emotions and
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that that, same framework is, you know, we gotta take responsibility, and then we gotta look
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at the results that we want and take action on those results. So how often then, I guess, do
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you find I know the answer is probably gonna be every day because you you talk to people every
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day. But how do we keep how do we keep ourselves out of a victim mentality and keep us into
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the retaining power mentality when it comes to interaction.
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Yeah. So it's it's difficult and the answer is practice. Right. 1, you need to accept responsibilities
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there. I'm gonna be responsible for a 100% of the results I get in life. Right. Now clearly
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circumstances are going to happen. You know, it's gonna rain on your picnic or or a meteor is
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gonna hit your house or whatever that you don't have, quote, unquote control over, but you have
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control over how you respond to those situations. Right? You have, and it's that that you wanna
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take on. What do I need to do Coming back, what do I need to do to get the results I want? If
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we're blaming our boss or, you know, a classic example I get is my boss It's over controlling
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or my boss micromanages me or my boss is dominating me. Right? You know, to be quite frank,
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your boss can only dominate you if you're dominatable. Right? So what do you need to do To start
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generating the power, to assert boundaries, to stand up for yourself, to advocate for yourself,
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and tell your boss that, hey. This doesn't work. Let's see if we can find something else that
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that works so that you and I have a good working relationship. But as long as we're blaming
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somebody else, we almost we we, By definition, put ourselves into victim mode. I'm a victim
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of that person. We like this is really key here about generating power is that we like being
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victims. We like being victims because we get to be righteous It's about the harm that's being
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done to us. Let me say that again. We get to be righteous. We get to feel this charge of righteousness
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in us When when somebody else we perceive somebody else, injuring us in some way. So we get
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that charge of of righteousness, which we really feast on, we really love, but we also get to
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not take responsibility. We don't have do anything if we're the victim. So that's what victimhood
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buys us. We get that that good charge of of righteousness. We get to talk to all of our friends
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about how we've been victimized by this person or that person or this social structure or that
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social structure, and we don't have to take responsibility. And what we get by not taking responsibility,
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of course, is we don't have to be exposed. We don't have to, going back to episode 2, we don't
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have to generate courage because it's scary to take responsibility. We have to go out there
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and we have to expose ourselves. We have to expose ourselves to, you You know, maybe physical
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threats to financial threats or most frequently in this world, in our world today is we have
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to expose ourselves to emotional threats. Somebody may say no. Somebody may say you're a fool.
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Somebody may argue and fight with you. Right? That's the exposure that we get to avoid By being
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a victim. Victimhood by definition is a person who's given up power. I'm giving my power away
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to somebody else.
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So is this something that you have found to be recent, or is this a common theme that has been
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going on for years.
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Yeah. That's a good good point. So I can't answer with any degree of authority, you know, Historical
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authority. But my guess is that we have always gone into victimhood. Because if you look at
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fights, You know, arguments that people have had, you know, 2000 years ago. There's always the
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sense of you did something bad to me. Right. But you're right. There's now it's part of the
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zeitgeist here in the United States. This this Culture of victimhood where the degree to which
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you are a victim raises your status. So, apparently and and I have not seen this, Personally,
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but apparently on, say, TikTok or other social media, there is a, There's an attempt to outvictim
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your buddies. I'm a victim of this. I'm a victim of that. You know, That may or may not be true.
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I'm just not aware of it. But the the larger point is that those people, by by seeing themselves
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as victims, are diminishing The richness of their lives or the capability of living a really good life.
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No. That that's a that's a great point. And, I mean, I'm on social media quite a lot, by nature
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of of posting and and and the show and research and everything else that I do, you know, for
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topics. So there is a degree of of victimization, and then there also is a degree of, you know,
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kinda like tabloid ness to that. You know, you're standing at the grocery line and you see the
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tabloids and you say, you know, kid born with bat wings and, you know, oh my goodness. You need
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to look at it. So So there is so there is, like, that, you know, type of mentality to it. But
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I also agree with you that there is a increase within victimhood. And I'm wondering if that's
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because, like you said, you know, we get some righteousness out of of being able to say, hey,
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somebody did me harm and and I am correct. And then you you also bring up that you don't also
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take responsibility and it either because somebody else did something to you that's beyond your
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control. And as we stay on this topic of maintaining our power, and also coming from a place
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of power to get things done. You know, you talked about taking responsibility. So In situations
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like that, and we take responsibility, and we look at the end results that we want. And you
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gave a great example of the boss, you know, being over dominating to you. What is another common
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example, that you can provide that might resonate with somebody of, you know what? I do that,
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and I don't realize I do that.
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Well, A good a good example and maybe some of the listeners are are starting to yell at the
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at the at their, I don't use radios anymore. Whatever they're streaming at their speakers here
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is there are circumstances that happen over which you have no control. I said, you know, the
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meteor in your house or or raining on your picnic. Right? And the question becomes of, well,
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I am a victim. So you're walking down the street and somebody mugs you, you know, pulls a gun
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and takes your money. I'm a victim. How do I generate power in that situation? Like, how do
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I generate power in a situation where the circumstances totally out of my control in some way
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injured me. Why aren't I a victim there? And I would say this, yes, you're a victim there, What
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we don't wanna do is then stay in our victimhood. The question is, We were mugged. How do we
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respond in a way that generates power as opposed to gives up gives away power? Giving away power
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might be, hey. I'm never walking in the city again. Right? Or I don't trust men. Say it's a
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man that loved you. I'm not gonna trust men or I'm gonna stay home or, you know, the the victimhood
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might be that that they're whining and complaining to their friends for the next with 5 years
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about being mugged and losing $40. If you come from a point of view or from the lens of being
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a cause, The question then becomes is what are the results I want? I've just been mugged. It
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was really terrifying. It was really scary. What do I need to do? Right? What kind of life do
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I wanna lead as a result of that? Right? And what are the actions I needed to take to get there?
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So it may well be Right. They said they asked, what did I do and what way am I responsible for
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being bugged? Was I walking down a dark street, You know, in the dead of night, in a place that
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I knew to be dangerous? Okay. What do I need to change my how do I think to change my behavior
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so that I don't become a target of a mugging. Right? There's been evidence shown that people
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that that are walked with great intention down the street staring ahead are less likely to mug
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than people kinda wander down the street looking at all the sites. Right? Maybe I need to walk
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down the street with more attention. Right? So you can sit and say, What do I need to do in
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the future not to be mugged? And and there's some people say, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna get
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a pistol and and and, you know, I've concealed carry. Somebody pulls a gun on me, I pull a gun
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on them. So that might right. Those might be those might be ways those are those are ways of
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being a cause. What do I need to do differently so it doesn't happen again? So that's pre. And
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then the post is how do I how do I heal from this traumatic experience. How do I recover from
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this traumatic experience so it does not impact me? It does not lessen my enjoyment of life.
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So again, you know, in answer to your question, a real common way we become victims is when
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circumstances out of our control impact our life. Our power comes in responding in such a way
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to those circumstances that enhances our life as opposed to diminishes Does that make sense?
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No. It makes this makes really good sense on being able to recognize the difference. And you
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bring up a a very difficult, thing that you mentioned that people need to do, and that is, you
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know, what portion of responsibility do I need to take? Oftentimes, I hear, well, you can't
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revictimize the victim. That's that's not okay to do. But sometimes, maybe, we do need to take
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an honest look of what happened, look at the facts, and then take responsibility for what needs
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to be responsible for. Right?
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So, yeah, you're you're you you put your finger on a really, really good issue. And I wanna
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make a distinction between blaming and taking responsibility. And often people conflate or,
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you know, put the 2 together that to take responsibility is to blame somebody. Blaming is not
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a a way of generating power. Blaming when we blame somebody else, what we do is we generate
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righteousness again. I'm right. You're wrong. Right? That kind of way of dealing with people,
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I'm right, you're wrong, doesn't work. It's another kind of, Yeah. It just doesn't work. You
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don't you're not producing results unless what you wanna do is feel, hey. I'm better than you.
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If those are the results you want in your life, great. You're doing exactly the right thing.
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But that doesn't strengthen a relationship and it doesn't help somebody else generate their
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power. You're not making a contribution to that person. So so that's the one thing. The other
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thing is that there are a lot of people who think I wanna do what I wanna do regardless Of the,
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because I think the world should work this way. I think I should be able to drive my, you know,
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fancy BMW into a dangerous neighborhood and leave the keys in the ignition and then come back
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a day later and find the the car still there with the key still in the ignition. Right? Not
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likely to happen. That's not the way the world works. That may be the way we want the world
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to work, but that's not the way the world works. So a more powerful Way of being there is to
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say, alright. I'm gonna take precautions not to have my car stolen by not parking in that neighborhood
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and taking the keys with me. Right. So it frequently shows up between male and female relationships.
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Some young woman goes to a fat party, gets drunk, and gets raped. Alright. That's a crime. There's
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no way of justifying that crime. The question I'd ask is if that woman wanted to be at cause
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for her life and she did not And the results you wanted was not to be raped. What kind of ways
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could she manage herself such To diminish that. Right? Wear certain kinds of clothes. Go with
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a buddy. Don't drink so much. Don't go to frat parties or whatever. We would all like to live
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in a world where people didn't get raped, but that's not the way the world works. Right? So
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The question I had asked the question that I'd asked the young woman is what are the results
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you want, and what actions do you need to take To get those results. No blame. Just power and responsibility.
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Yeah. And I I think that's a really hard distinction. May maybe more in this day and age, but
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I would think that's a really hard distinction that we need to make between giving blame and
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assuming ability for the things that we need to take responsibility for. So another question
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I have then is, how often do you experience rationalizing away, not taking responsibility.
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Like, daily. I mean, my whole business is pretty my whole coaching business is predicated on
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that that people People don't wanna take responsibility or they rationalize it away. I'm, I'm
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working with a No. No. Well, so a real common And this comes back to, again, episodes 23 a lot.
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If somebody We'll see something that's not working in their organization. Okay? Their boss is
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doing something that they don't like or they even think that what the boss is doing is injurious
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to a project they're working on. Right? And so taking responsibility would be generating power
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and going to the boss and say, hey. When you're doing x, it makes it more difficult for me to
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do what we said we wanna do. Right? But that's scary. You're talking to your boss. You're exposing
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yourself. The boss may say, no. May you know, may may you may be wrong, actually. Or, You know,
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the boss has authority over years, so there might be some threat there. So the person will rationalize.
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I'm not gonna do it because it's his responsibility to do the do the things right. It's not
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me to tell him what to do. Right. That's a classic sense of abdicating responsibility, giving
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up power, you know, giving up power to your boss We're giving you a part of the situation because
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you're afraid of feeling uncomfortable. Right? That's, again, Episode 2 is where we have to
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build courage here. Does that answer your question or are you thinking of something else?
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No. I mean, that that answers the question. But I'm also was thinking of, you know, oftentimes
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when we rationalize a way A behavior. Right? To make it right. But let's say there's something,
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you know, that, I I guess a real world tangible, example of how somebody rationalizes away Giving
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away or not wanting to take responsibility. Like, I can't possibly take responsibility for this
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because of x, y, and z. Like, this. It just isn't my responsibility to take responsibility for
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because it's for somebody else. So you mentioned that boss, employee relationship. But what
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about, like, on a peer to peer level? Because even with power, you know, the ability to make
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things happen. Just because you're not in an authoritative role, doesn't mean you can't be a
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leader to to make things happen. So on a peer to peer level, what would that look like?
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Yeah. So so a common example is when when one of your peers, you know, maybe a friend, a coworker,
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does something that you don't like or think is wrong, and you don't talk to them about it. You
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don't sit down and have a good kind you know, a good conversation about what didn't work, about
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what that person did, what your concerns are around that, and, you know, making a request to
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do something different or to stop that behavior. And the rationalization will be, usually, we
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go into victimhood. Right? I'm a victim. He's injured me or he's doing something wrong to me.
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But the a rationalization there could be that it's none of my business. Right? Or he's mean
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or what we start doing is going to these what are what we call cognitive distortions. We start
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exaggerating the threat. Right. So we could catastrophize. If I go to the if I go to Joe and
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I'm telling him that what he did, didn't work for me, He's gonna get really angry and break
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off the friendship. You know, that's catastrophizing. Or, you know, real catastrophizing. He's
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gonna slug me. You know, that could be catastrophizing. Another really common rationalization
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is we we do mind reading. We think we know what other somebody else is thinking. Right. And
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that mind reading, like, I could say, I think that, Joe was just doing the best he could or
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Joe Joe was thinking that he was trying to help me. That mind reading often gives us permission
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not to act. Right. We think we know what somebody else is thinking, and what we think we know
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gives us permission not to act. It's another way of giving up power. So those are 2 really common
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kinds of rationalizations.
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Those are really great points. Having listened to everything, and I'm and I'm just thinking
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here, if I'm listening to this for the first time, never hearing about it, never never really
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thinking about it. And I go, you know what? If I'm gonna retain power in my life and, you know,
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I gotta take responsibility, and then I gotta think about the results that I want and then act
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accordingly to achieve that outcome. So you're you're kind of asking a lot of somebody, how
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do I start that week today. Like, what is there is there a tool that I can use right now today
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to put that into effect and start that?
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There is. There's one thing I'd like to catch in your language there, if I could. You said,
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how do I retain power? Yeah. You said, how do I retain power? I like to swap out retain for
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generate. Right? Because you may not have power to begin with. How do we generate power? How
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do we create power? Right. How do we be powerful? Right? So it's a generative process as opposed
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to a retaining process, Which I see is a little bit more passive. Step 1 step 1 is Ask yourself,
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am I in any situation where you're not getting the results you want in your life, Whatever it
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is with your boss, with your spouse, with your kids, you know, with with, you know, with your
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bloody car, you know, it's breaking down all the time. The question to ask is, okay. What am
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I doing to to contribute to this situation and what can I do to change or mitigate the situation?
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Right? So this the question starts with what can I do? As soon as you say this person's responsible
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or that person needs to do this, you're giving up power. You're making somebody else, when you're
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making somebody else responsible for the for the results, you're giving away your power.
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No. That makes perfect sense. So I I kinda wanna to to wrap this up, here and and kind of go
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over a couple of things. And you laid out a really, really good, framework on how to generate
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power and and start and and put that into practice and exercise today. And then you make a really
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great point of you have to practice this. Right? You have it has to be a conscious thought starting
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today Moving forward, you have to be intentional about your thought process and you have to
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be intentional about what you're doing. So if you were to summarize this up And a quick, you
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know, 1 minute to 45 second, how would you summarize, today's episode?
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Alright. To be a leader, you need to be powerful. Powerful does not mean force or domination
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or authority. Power is something that only you can generate for yourself or you give up or surrender.
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No one can take it from you. Alright? Understand that. You're you're only person who can generate
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power for yourself, and you're the only one who can surrender or give it away to someone else.
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So step number 2 then is to be a cause in every area of your life. Or to take out the jargon,
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Everywhere that you're getting getting results, you see what it is that I'm producing that that
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produces those results, what I'm doing to produce those results. But more importantly, every
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area where you're not getting results you want, you wanna ask yourself, what am I doing that's
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not getting results that I want and what do I need to do in order to get those results. Right?
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That's the essence of power. What can I do? What do I need to do to get the results I want?
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That's the essence. Okay? Anytime you see yourself blaming somebody else, assigning responsibility
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elsewhere for the your results, whatever, even if it's Whether it's God or whatever, as soon
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as you're doing that, you're surrendering power. Right? And I'm not gonna say there's anything
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good or bad about surrendering power. It's just that you're gonna get different results in your life.
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No. Absolutely. And I really appreciate that. And and Russell, thank you for being on the show,
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and thank you for doing this 4 part miniseries with us. I would like to ask everybody, if you
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got value out of what Russell brought to the into the table here over the last couple weeks.
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Go in the links down below. And in the links in the description of this episode, you have, his
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books and you have his website for coaching. Additionally, if you listen to this and you're
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like, you know what? I think I wanna be a leadership coach. Russell, you offer that, don't you?
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I I offer 2 things. 1, I I certainly offer to coach leaders. If you want to be a more effective
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leader, you know, come work with me. But I also offer a coach training program. The new one
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will start at the end of March. And this coach training program is the most effective way to
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step into your leadership. And that may may not make sense. Why does becoming a coach make me
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a better leader? Good question. Give me a ring, and we'll talk about it. I absolutely guarantee
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you to improve your leadership.
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Alright, Russell. Thank thank you for sharing that, and I hope everyone got some value out of
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this. If you did get some value out of this and you wanna Ask a question or provide a comment,
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please do so below. Go to YouTube, Tim State in the obvious or right below this one and and
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comment on there. Or you go to timstateintheobvious com and leave a message on there. And any
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messages that I get, for Russell, I will definitely pass your way on there, and I really appreciate
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you coming on the show in sharing this stuff with us. So, again, thank you so
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much. Hey. Thank you, Tim.
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As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it. I hope
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that you enjoyed it. Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could. If you could please
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share this episode with 1 or 2 people who you think might like this topic. If you haven't followed
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or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the bells and icons and all
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the whistles so that you know that When we post another episode, you'll be alerted. Please go
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ahead and do all that before you go. If you got some value out of this episode, please leave
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a review or a comment so we can help spread the show to other people who might be interested
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in the topics that we've talked about here today, but may not have found our show yet. Again,
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thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Stain, update the
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obvious.
