00:00:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part of the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tigers podcast.
00:00:14
Speaker 2: I am Kieran Steckley.
00:00:15
Speaker 1: With me, as always, is a man who knows baseball is something else.
00:00:20
Speaker 2: He writes about it every day.
00:00:22
Speaker 3: All right.
00:00:22
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
00:00:24
Speaker 3: Something else, huh? That can mean so many different things. And baseball means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, we got the full range of emotions watching the Tigers this year from the hype and the promise of the beginning of the season to the immortal May of 2026 and then the injuries and the school trade.
00:00:48
Speaker 2: And then, oh, the young guys look kind of all right. So what did the 2026 mean? It meant a lot of things to a lot of people, I'm pretty sure.
00:00:57
Speaker 1: And so it makes it kind of a fun challenge to try to, like, you know, project forward what what what what the tigers will do with this roster to try to get back into the playoffs and more. And so on that note, I kind of wanted to do something like a little bit different here, Cody. And next week, we're going to talk about some roster decisions, guys that, you know, it doesn't look like they're going to be coming back guys that maybe really ought to be back on this roster.
00:01:25
Speaker 2: But there might be a hurdle or two in there. So that will be what we do next week.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: So, I kind of wanted to set those episodes up by doing a concept of how much are the Tigers invested, and I don't mean that in a financial sense strictly, although obviously that plays a part in it, in the guys on the roster right now. How much are they invested in there? And then, look, it's baseball, right? So why don't we kind of do it in hitting terms? So single, double, triple, home run. Obviously, home run being like the all-in investment, right? So I think we could start out, you know, as an example, Kevin McGonigal. I would say that's a home run. Like, you know, they feel pretty invested in Kevin McGonigal, you know, contractually and metaphorically. So hopefully that makes sense to you guys. And then I'll tally these. Cody and I have not done this in advance yet. So I'll tally these and then that will kind of give us like a little bit of an idea of what we think the Tigers think of the roster. So hope that makes sense for everybody. I'll go ahead and give a tally for home run for Kevin McGonigal.
00:02:40
Speaker 2: And here's another kind of.
00:02:41
Speaker 3: Go around the horn. Now we got to go in positional order. You're going to, you're going to frustrate me.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: All right.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: You want positional order as in numerical or positional order? You know, just down the line on baseball reference.
00:02:54
Speaker 2: What do you, what do you prefer?
00:02:59
Speaker 3: Are we even doing pitcher? I don't know if we're doing pitcher here.
00:03:03
Speaker 2: We'll do pitchers, yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker 3: Okay, well, pitcher's one, so that's where we're starting. Then we're going catcher, first base, second base. I could go either way on third or short. I don't have a real preference. You know what? Let's do shortstop first. I don't really think it should be six. I think it should be five.
00:03:21
Speaker 2: There you go, rewriting the scorebook rules. All right, pitcher. Let's go with Cater Montero.
00:03:29
Speaker 3: Cater Montero. Well, I think the Tigers really like Cater Montero. I think he's valuable. I think it's highly unclear what his role is going to be next season. He certainly made a great rotation case for himself, and yet we've kind of talked about it before. There's still going to be competition coming into camp. So the overall, I mean, is it wrong to say the overall investment is probably a single? Should it be a double? I'd say at least a double because he's on the team next year. It's just a matter of what role.
00:03:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I kind of look at this as like investment and like kind of him being in the plan sort of moving forward without any sort of like real change. So go with a double for Montero. You want to stick with all pitchers? You want me to go literally around the horn right now?
00:04:18
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we're going. It's going to take a while to get through all the pitchers, so we'll have to speed around the pitchers. Unfortunately, don't be mad, guys, if you don't get the same analysis as Cater Montaro did.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: All right, Dylan Dingler.
00:04:32
Speaker 3: Oh, he's not a pitcher. Dylan Dingler. One, two. I think to be a home run, you have to get a contract extension. And I do wonder, you know, is that something that could be on the table? I also wonder, you know, what does his slow finish to the season mean for His value. If I'm Dingler's camp, I'm kind of like, I don't know, man, you played at an MVP caliber level for four months. Like, can't let them lowball you now. If I'm the Tigers, you know, maybe a little more hesitant. You know, we know we got a gold glove caliber catcher. How good is the bat actually? I'll still say triple. I mean, this guy's an all-star gold glove caliber player, no doubt about it.
00:05:14
Speaker 2: All right, doing the around the horn thing. Torkelson.
00:05:19
Speaker 3: That's the big question, right? We've talked about it before. In an ideal world, I think it would be nice to feel better about your first baseman. At the same time, unless you can show me another guy who can hit 25 homers and regardless of what the metrics say, handle first base well. I think the overall investment is a single. I think it's pretty fringe. I think we'll see what happens. I think there's a strong chance Torkelson is back next year. But, you know, Cole Keith there. I think at some point you start running out of rope. He's nearing the end. But I do kind of expect him to be back. I'm going single.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: All right. It's this one.
00:06:10
Speaker 1: I should say there's a fifth category, if you want, Cody, that's just like I call pinch hit.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: So it's like not. In the team's future, short-term or long-term.
00:06:20
Speaker 3: I was going strikeout there.
00:06:21
Speaker 1: You can do strikeout. I thought pinch hit was a little kinder. But we can do strikeout.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: Maybe pinch hit is more if you're in between.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: Gleyber Torres. Basically, is it for sure that.
00:06:35
Speaker 3: He's... Strikeout seems mean, but really he's just a pending free agent. I don't know.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Walk?
00:06:43
Speaker 3: Walk. He's probably walking into free agency.
00:06:46
Speaker 2: There you go that's a good that's a good that's a good way to put it.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: Seems i don't think the tiger is going to bring him back although another thing we've mentioned like kind of got to replace that right-handed production somehow.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: All right let's do because you love we did kevin mcgonagall already so that was shortstop was taken care of what about.
00:07:07
Speaker 2: Colt keith.
00:07:10
Speaker 3: Well, they've given him a contract extension, so I think it's a double. I think it's a double. He's under contract for several more years still. Finding his actual role, man, I don't know. I don't think the Tigers know. I think they're being somewhat serious when they talk about, well, it's kind of good that he can play multiple positions. I wouldn't be, well, we talked about the first base platoon before, which is interesting because the vast majority of Spencer Torkelson's power this year actually came against right-handed pitching. And Cole Keith, although he's pretty good against righties, isn't like lights out against righties. So the math of the platoon sort of makes sense, except not totally. 23 of Torkelson's 26 homers were against righties. He had a higher OPS against righties than he did lefties. But I could still see a world where you get sort of a platoon at first, and depending on what you do at second, maybe Keith goes back to playing a little second. I think he's a double just because of the contract, but, man, they've got to figure out a way to use him.
00:08:18
Speaker 2: Riley Green.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: Riley Green, triple, all-star caliber player. Does that mean contract extension? I don't know. I don't know. I think you'd feel better about it if there weren't just this risk of him being a DH at some point down the line, maybe some point sooner rather than later down the line. So for now, I'll just go triple, and I mean that as no disrespect. I think Riley is a really talented player, a really good header, a staple in the middle of the Tigers' order for sure.
00:08:49
Speaker 2: All right, someone we haven't talked about in a while, Matt Bierling.
00:08:53
Speaker 1: Ooh.
00:08:55
Speaker 3: Love Matty V, but might be nearing strikeout territory. Unfortunately, just injured back-to-back years. He's no longer available. so cheap in arbitration. He's just missed a lot of time. It's kind of getting tough to see where he fits. I hate to say it, but he seems like maybe the strongest candidate to be non-tendered this offseason. I still don't know for sure if that will happen. Scott Harris trade acquisition that works in his favor still, but unfortunately it's kind of tough to see where he fits.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: Zach McKinstry.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: Single? Pinch hit? Pinch hit? I think there's a strong chance he's on the team next year. I also don't know that for a fact. There's been many other times where it seemed like maybe it's time to move on from Zach McKinstry. The Tigers didn't do it. In a lot of those cases, they were rewarded for it. The weird thing about McKinstry, it's like Torkelson. If you're going to move on from McKinstry, you're probably just going to be a for another left-handed hitter who can play a bundle of different positions. McKinstry's a good defender. He was really good in right field this year. You'd like to see more out of the bat, but I don't. I'm going to go pinch hit. That's one of the tough decisions the Tigers have on their hands this year, but I almost actually lean toward him returning.
00:10:21
Speaker 2: All right. How you Lee?
00:10:25
Speaker 3: How you Lee?
00:10:28
Speaker 2: Double. Double.
00:10:29
Speaker 3: He's a big part of the Tigers' future. I think he's going to be on the roster next year. It's a matter of what is the role. Is he your starting second baseman? Is he going to play second and third? How much is he going to play against right-hand pitching? Is the defense going to improve? All that good stuff. But really a pretty big and important year for how you Lee. Almost neither one of us mentioned him as a rookie of the year, non-Kevin McGonigal candidate on our last episode, but Howie Lee is going to be on the bus next year, I think, and that's good.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: All right.
00:11:04
Speaker 1: Another one of the guys that's a little bit in the more forgotten category, Kerry Carpenter.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: Ooh, Kerry, Kerry, Kerry. I think single, I mean, I think it's interesting that A.J. Hinch was pretty forthright that this is a big offseason for Carpenter. He still has just massive pop from the left side. So I don't think they're getting rid of him. But it's like, how much can you afford to play him in the outfield? Can he stay healthy if he's playing in the outfield? If he's mostly just playing DH, how much.
00:11:40
Speaker 2: Value does he have?
00:11:41
Speaker 3: I think he's still such a chess piece, a weapon, that A.J. overall likes having him. It's a pretty big year for Carey to prove His worth, the injuries aren't really his fault, but to prove he can stay healthy and even to hit better. As much as I love his power, he chased, he didn't walk, he really did not hit well when he was on the field this year. So going single, but he might be down in the count a little bit trying to battle back.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: That's a good analogy. We're taking this analogy to the furthest it will go.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: Max Clark.
00:12:20
Speaker 3: Max Clark, he's a triple. Massive, massive part of the future. Can he get that contract extension? Does he want a contract extension? I don't know the answer to those. If I were the Tigers, I'd certainly be having those discussions. And then it's just like, what is the right value? What is the right price? Not sure, but Max, really impressive. First taste of the big leagues and huge part of everything the Tigers are doing.
00:12:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with everything there.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: Another kind of interesting one, Javi Baez.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: I guess pinch hit. I mean, Javi's got one more year on his deal. Now that it's down to one year, could you eat most of that and try to trade him now that he's versatile? Is there another team who would like him? Do you just accept, hey, this is what it is, try not to play him a lot? I think he starts the year on the team. I think there's a world where if he's not hitting and he's not playing and things aren't going well, it's more palatable than ever for them to just say, all right, well, we can kind of wash our hands of this thing now. And to Javi's credit, he's done his best to kind of stay viable and done it by playing other positions. But there's still a world where he's the starting shortstop next year. I don't know. I think the best version of the Tigers team probably finds another solution there, but it's not out of the question. So I'm going to go pinch hit. I think he's a little bit of a weird– I think he's probably on the team, but it's like just because you're paying him $ 22- plus million. So then you've got to figure out what to do with him.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I anticipate him being like the opening day, starting shortstop and then kind of like eventually sort of like being like phased out to more like the super utility. But you start out kind of using as much as you can of them and then kind of things filter there where they naturally will be.
00:14:25
Speaker 2: Wenzel Perez.
00:14:29
Speaker 3: Penchette, I think he's, you know. still relatively young, at least in terms of big league experience, switch hitter, that always bodes in his favor, unfortunate injury this year, man, really sucked, the fractured orbital bone, and the freak weight room accident, not his fault at all, but, you know, he was, for as much as we've kind of liked Winslow, and he's come through in a lot of big moments, his overall statistical production was pretty replacement level, maybe slightly above replacement level, so, As the team gets older, as you have other guys knocking on the door of the 40-man roster, as there's competition in the outfield, it becomes a prove-it year for Wenzel for sure. I think he's kind of in the pinch-hit category of like, well, you like this guy, but what does that actually mean? I'm not sure. Wenzel's going to have to come to spring training, and he'll certainly be competing for a job. Yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker 2: Ben Malgeri.
00:15:30
Speaker 3: Ooh, I'm going to go single. I think he just, he's coming off a lot of positive momentum, right? He's kind of part of this next wave, even though he's not as young as some of the other prospects. But I think what he did left an impression, both defensively on the bases, a little bit at the plate. I think he still has to come compete for a job, but um I think right now he kind of has a little bit of a leg up on a guy like Wenzel or certainly a guy like Matt Vierling just because he's coming off a positive.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Season Eduardo Valencia.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: Oh double I think I think the Tigers really like Mal Jerry does not speak badly of Mal Jerry but overall talk to Scouts, whatever, still a little unsure what the bat is going to do at the big league level. Whereas Valencia, I've already kind of seen what upside the bat has at the big league level. This is a dude they're going to want to get a lot more at bats. It seems like they feel fine enough about him behind the plate. We'll see what that ultimately looks like. But a guy who potentially could be a very big part of this team's future, I'll go double.
00:16:50
Speaker 2: Brett Callahan.
00:16:52
Speaker 3: Brett Callahan. Is he single or is he pinch hit? I think there were some good vibes around Callahan, but ultimately I don't think he was as good as Maljiri. I think he doesn't have quite as good of a roster case as Maljiri. Maljiri's a right-handed hitter, which the Tigers could use. I'll go pinch hit. It was still a great year for Brett Callahan just to put himself on the map and get to the major leagues. Now once in the major leagues, Man, he had that home run early on. That was his only home run. Chased 40% of the time, whiffed 29% of the time, 33% strikeout rate. For those reasons, I'm going to go pinch hitter. Come to camp with a chance to win a job, but certainly has some pretty clear, tangible things to improve on at the plate.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Another tough one, Parker Meadows.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: Man. I think he's a pinch hit, but it's Parker Meadows. You put him in there, he could always surprise you. I don't know. I think this guy's too talented. His skill set is too valuable for the Tigers to give up before they have to, is my opinion. Now, he's been injured when he has been on the field the last couple years. The production with the bat has not been good. I don't know what they do with that. It seems like Max Clark has kind of usurped him as he's going to be the center fielder. But is there a Jake Marisnyk type role for Parker Meadows where he's a fourth outfielder who's just a plus to plus plus level defensive outfielder and maybe still more upside than Jake Marisnyk out of the plate? That world exists. I don't know what next year looks like for Parker Meadows. It could be Toledo. It could be a fourth outfielder. It could be somewhere else, but this guy's pretty good. Ultimately, I gave him a pinch hit because of just the uncertainty. And then if you're going to have Riley, Max, Parker, Carey, it's a lot of left-handed outfielders. So I don't know, but his skill set still has a lot of value.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: What about Fromber Valdez?
00:19:04
Speaker 3: Fromber, well, you're paying him. You're paying him. You get a triple at the least in my book now. Big year for Fromber because I'm sure when Fromber initially signed that deal, three years, $ 115 million with an opt-out after two. You put the opt-out after two because you're hoping to opt out and get another big deal. Fromber is not on track to do that after posting an ERA above four in his first year with the Tigers. But if he gets back on track, he could certainly make a case for himself to opt out. We'll see. It's going to be tough to match the, what, almost $ 38 million he's getting in the AAV right now. But I don't know. Get someone else to give you a four- or five-year deal. there's a chance. Whatever it is, Fran Bervaldez is going to show up next year. He's going to make $ 38 million. He's probably going to be your opening day starter. So go in triple.
00:20:02
Speaker 2: Troy Melton.
00:20:03
Speaker 3: Troy Melton. Triple. I wish we knew the status of his arm. But regardless, the Tigers think he's a massive part of their future. I think they'd like him to be a front-line type guy for this rotation for years to come.
00:20:22
Speaker 1: All right, we'll go ahead and put Jack Flaherty in the walk category.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: What about Drew Anderson?
00:20:32
Speaker 3: I expect him to pick up that option, be the last year on his deal, rolls unclear, single. Speed around with the pitchers here.
00:20:40
Speaker 2: Speed round. All right.
00:20:41
Speaker 3: Jackson, Job, Jackson, Job, triple. They'd like him to be their next ace. They haven't paid him yet. Uh, it was encouraging that he, he started to look a lot better. His final few outings, huge year for Job to see if he can stay healthy and live up to the potential, but triple Tyler Holton, Tyler Holton, single tight. Tyler Holton had a better year than, than he gets, uh, than he gets credit for. There's no doubt about that. Um, I think he's back, but I think he's a single.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: River Ryan.
00:21:18
Speaker 3: Triple. Remember the Scooble trade? I mean, really, if there's one player who could define the Scott Harris tenure, it's River Ryan. They got to get it right on this guy. They think he can be an ace. He could end up a closer. He could end up an injured mess who never pitches. The array of outcomes is so wide, but he is a massively important player for the Tigers.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Let's go with... Emmanuel DeJesus.
00:21:52
Speaker 3: Hmm. That's a weird one. Single, I guess. I don't know. Single?
00:22:01
Speaker 2: Single, all right.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: Versatile. Has some length. Could do a lot worse.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: Grant Herter.
00:22:05
Speaker 3: Herter? Herter? I mean, is it bad if I just give all the bullpen guys singles? You know, they're not good. It's just like, you know how, unfortunately all relievers are ultimately somewhat disposable. I'm giving them all singles, except I'll give, I'll give Drew Summers a double because the Tigers are super high on him and his upside is, is really, really high.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: All right. Best still a single.
00:22:31
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how much time he's going to miss. I mean, It's certainly a guy you would like to get healthy, but he's also, well, he's also hurt. He's ARB, is he ARB 3? I don't know what I'm doing with Will Vest. I'd like to know more about how much time he's going to miss.
00:22:57
Speaker 2: Finnegan.
00:22:58
Speaker 3: 4.4 million for a hurt pitcher. I think it depends how much time you expect him to miss last year. I don't know what to make of that one. Kyle Finnegan, he's under contract. Really needs to have a better year, but he's going to come back, get paid, be a member of your bullpen, so he's a single.
00:23:18
Speaker 2: What about Wegesbeck?
00:23:23
Speaker 3: I guess he doesn't have that much service time, right?
00:23:30
Speaker 2: Doing this on the fly here.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: He is.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: Doesn't have much service time, so he's coming back. He's under control. Yeah, pinch hit. I think he did really good. He was very effective at times for the Tigers, but will ultimately have to earn his roster spot next spring. He finished with a 2-4-9 ERA. He only struck out 6.7 guys per nine innings. Don't love that.
00:24:02
Speaker 2: Bo Briski?
00:24:04
Speaker 3: Pinch hit. Really like Bo. Had a couple outings where you thought maybe you started to see the old bow and had some other outings where he just didn't look comfortable. Finished with a. 497 ERA. Stuff was completely up and down. I think you've got to keep kind of trying it, but man, no guarantee at all.
00:24:30
Speaker 1: I'm just going to bring in one more hitter just because I feel like it should be talked about a little bit more. Jace Young, the guy that just has been like, he's 40, man, and he doesn't get that many opportunities.
00:24:47
Speaker 3: You know, I think both of us have kind of historically defended like the Jace Youngs and Max Andersons. Like, why aren't these guys getting opportunities? And I do think Jace Young can be a big league caliber hitter. It's hard for me to, like, it seems like the Tigers have made it very clear what they think of Jace Young. They don't think he's part of what they're doing. That's okay. I think he could be elsewhere. I think as 40 men get spots, get tight, he could certainly be a guy who is let go or cut or traded or whatever it might be. So I almost lean toward Wok. I kind of hope he walks. I'd like to see what happens if he gets a shot in another organization.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. Teams tell you what they think. You've got to believe them.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: All right, so to recap this very unscientific experiment, you have the home run with McGonagall, seven triples, five doubles.
00:25:44
Speaker 3: There's no way I gave out seven triples. Riley Green, Dylan Dingler, Max Clark, I guess Melton, Ryan Jobe. No, I gave him a double. Counting the pitchers, maybe six.
00:26:01
Speaker 1: Five doubles, an infinite number of singles because of the pitchers, and you really like the pinch hit choice because it felt fitting.
00:26:11
Speaker 2: So basically what this exercise.
00:26:13
Speaker 3: Can we go back to this arbitration list? We'll talk about this a little more deeper in the offseason. Yeah. You got some tough decisions here, man. When you look at the salaries, Will Vest projects to make 4.4. Zach McKinstry, 5. Matt Vierling, 3.7. Tyler Holton, I think he's good at two points. Even Kerry Carpenter, 4.1 million. Bo Briski, 1.5. Winslow Perez, 1.4. It's a reminder that these guys are getting older. They're not all as cheap as they once were. The guys who used to cost you one to two are now costing you four to five million. And although in the grand scheme of things, that's cheap, but then suddenly you keep five of these guys and there's 25 million of your payroll. I think I lean toward most of these guys coming back, but I'm not sure you can bring them all back. There might be one or two more in here who's not returning.
00:27:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's part of it. I think one of the lessons of 2026 is holding on to guys perhaps maybe a little bit too long. And this perfectly sets up what we're going to talk about next week, is that some of these guys are not going to be– brought back or at least holding 40-man spots. And we're going to try to project that out here pretty soon. But I think what this teaches us is there's a lot of variance on this roster. You have some high end, but still a lot of variance. And they could easily bring a lot of these guys back to just kind of keep the mix going and see kind of where the dust settles. Or there could be a case where people look more expendable than at this time last year.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: What the Tigers need, Kieran, is more doubles. They have the high end, the homer, the triples. Every team is going to have a bunch of singles and pinch hits. It's kind of the doubles who get you there and get you to the playoffs. Those guys who are solid major league players that you really like and you really trust, even if they're not quite superstars. So something to keep in mind there.
00:28:23
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:28:24
Speaker 1: So, Hope you guys enjoyed that little exercise in roster construction and analysis. Tried to do things a little bit different here on Tiger Territory. So if you like what we had to say or think we're idiots, you guys can tell us. You can follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Cody Stabenhagen. I am at Kieran underscore Steklia. Pod page is at Tiger Territory underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: You guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you so far. Cody Stabenhagen. I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have a great day.
Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part of the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tigers podcast.
00:00:14
Speaker 2: I am Kieran Steckley.
00:00:15
Speaker 1: With me, as always, is a man who knows baseball is something else.
00:00:20
Speaker 2: He writes about it every day.
00:00:22
Speaker 3: All right.
00:00:22
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
00:00:24
Speaker 3: Something else, huh? That can mean so many different things. And baseball means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, we got the full range of emotions watching the Tigers this year from the hype and the promise of the beginning of the season to the immortal May of 2026 and then the injuries and the school trade.
00:00:48
Speaker 2: And then, oh, the young guys look kind of all right. So what did the 2026 mean? It meant a lot of things to a lot of people, I'm pretty sure.
00:00:57
Speaker 1: And so it makes it kind of a fun challenge to try to, like, you know, project forward what what what what the tigers will do with this roster to try to get back into the playoffs and more. And so on that note, I kind of wanted to do something like a little bit different here, Cody. And next week, we're going to talk about some roster decisions, guys that, you know, it doesn't look like they're going to be coming back guys that maybe really ought to be back on this roster.
00:01:25
Speaker 2: But there might be a hurdle or two in there. So that will be what we do next week.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: So, I kind of wanted to set those episodes up by doing a concept of how much are the Tigers invested, and I don't mean that in a financial sense strictly, although obviously that plays a part in it, in the guys on the roster right now. How much are they invested in there? And then, look, it's baseball, right? So why don't we kind of do it in hitting terms? So single, double, triple, home run. Obviously, home run being like the all-in investment, right? So I think we could start out, you know, as an example, Kevin McGonigal. I would say that's a home run. Like, you know, they feel pretty invested in Kevin McGonigal, you know, contractually and metaphorically. So hopefully that makes sense to you guys. And then I'll tally these. Cody and I have not done this in advance yet. So I'll tally these and then that will kind of give us like a little bit of an idea of what we think the Tigers think of the roster. So hope that makes sense for everybody. I'll go ahead and give a tally for home run for Kevin McGonigal.
00:02:40
Speaker 2: And here's another kind of.
00:02:41
Speaker 3: Go around the horn. Now we got to go in positional order. You're going to, you're going to frustrate me.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: All right.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: You want positional order as in numerical or positional order? You know, just down the line on baseball reference.
00:02:54
Speaker 2: What do you, what do you prefer?
00:02:59
Speaker 3: Are we even doing pitcher? I don't know if we're doing pitcher here.
00:03:03
Speaker 2: We'll do pitchers, yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker 3: Okay, well, pitcher's one, so that's where we're starting. Then we're going catcher, first base, second base. I could go either way on third or short. I don't have a real preference. You know what? Let's do shortstop first. I don't really think it should be six. I think it should be five.
00:03:21
Speaker 2: There you go, rewriting the scorebook rules. All right, pitcher. Let's go with Cater Montero.
00:03:29
Speaker 3: Cater Montero. Well, I think the Tigers really like Cater Montero. I think he's valuable. I think it's highly unclear what his role is going to be next season. He certainly made a great rotation case for himself, and yet we've kind of talked about it before. There's still going to be competition coming into camp. So the overall, I mean, is it wrong to say the overall investment is probably a single? Should it be a double? I'd say at least a double because he's on the team next year. It's just a matter of what role.
00:03:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I kind of look at this as like investment and like kind of him being in the plan sort of moving forward without any sort of like real change. So go with a double for Montero. You want to stick with all pitchers? You want me to go literally around the horn right now?
00:04:18
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we're going. It's going to take a while to get through all the pitchers, so we'll have to speed around the pitchers. Unfortunately, don't be mad, guys, if you don't get the same analysis as Cater Montaro did.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: All right, Dylan Dingler.
00:04:32
Speaker 3: Oh, he's not a pitcher. Dylan Dingler. One, two. I think to be a home run, you have to get a contract extension. And I do wonder, you know, is that something that could be on the table? I also wonder, you know, what does his slow finish to the season mean for His value. If I'm Dingler's camp, I'm kind of like, I don't know, man, you played at an MVP caliber level for four months. Like, can't let them lowball you now. If I'm the Tigers, you know, maybe a little more hesitant. You know, we know we got a gold glove caliber catcher. How good is the bat actually? I'll still say triple. I mean, this guy's an all-star gold glove caliber player, no doubt about it.
00:05:14
Speaker 2: All right, doing the around the horn thing. Torkelson.
00:05:19
Speaker 3: That's the big question, right? We've talked about it before. In an ideal world, I think it would be nice to feel better about your first baseman. At the same time, unless you can show me another guy who can hit 25 homers and regardless of what the metrics say, handle first base well. I think the overall investment is a single. I think it's pretty fringe. I think we'll see what happens. I think there's a strong chance Torkelson is back next year. But, you know, Cole Keith there. I think at some point you start running out of rope. He's nearing the end. But I do kind of expect him to be back. I'm going single.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: All right. It's this one.
00:06:10
Speaker 1: I should say there's a fifth category, if you want, Cody, that's just like I call pinch hit.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: So it's like not. In the team's future, short-term or long-term.
00:06:20
Speaker 3: I was going strikeout there.
00:06:21
Speaker 1: You can do strikeout. I thought pinch hit was a little kinder. But we can do strikeout.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: Maybe pinch hit is more if you're in between.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: Gleyber Torres. Basically, is it for sure that.
00:06:35
Speaker 3: He's... Strikeout seems mean, but really he's just a pending free agent. I don't know.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Walk?
00:06:43
Speaker 3: Walk. He's probably walking into free agency.
00:06:46
Speaker 2: There you go that's a good that's a good that's a good way to put it.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: Seems i don't think the tiger is going to bring him back although another thing we've mentioned like kind of got to replace that right-handed production somehow.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: All right let's do because you love we did kevin mcgonagall already so that was shortstop was taken care of what about.
00:07:07
Speaker 2: Colt keith.
00:07:10
Speaker 3: Well, they've given him a contract extension, so I think it's a double. I think it's a double. He's under contract for several more years still. Finding his actual role, man, I don't know. I don't think the Tigers know. I think they're being somewhat serious when they talk about, well, it's kind of good that he can play multiple positions. I wouldn't be, well, we talked about the first base platoon before, which is interesting because the vast majority of Spencer Torkelson's power this year actually came against right-handed pitching. And Cole Keith, although he's pretty good against righties, isn't like lights out against righties. So the math of the platoon sort of makes sense, except not totally. 23 of Torkelson's 26 homers were against righties. He had a higher OPS against righties than he did lefties. But I could still see a world where you get sort of a platoon at first, and depending on what you do at second, maybe Keith goes back to playing a little second. I think he's a double just because of the contract, but, man, they've got to figure out a way to use him.
00:08:18
Speaker 2: Riley Green.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: Riley Green, triple, all-star caliber player. Does that mean contract extension? I don't know. I don't know. I think you'd feel better about it if there weren't just this risk of him being a DH at some point down the line, maybe some point sooner rather than later down the line. So for now, I'll just go triple, and I mean that as no disrespect. I think Riley is a really talented player, a really good header, a staple in the middle of the Tigers' order for sure.
00:08:49
Speaker 2: All right, someone we haven't talked about in a while, Matt Bierling.
00:08:53
Speaker 1: Ooh.
00:08:55
Speaker 3: Love Matty V, but might be nearing strikeout territory. Unfortunately, just injured back-to-back years. He's no longer available. so cheap in arbitration. He's just missed a lot of time. It's kind of getting tough to see where he fits. I hate to say it, but he seems like maybe the strongest candidate to be non-tendered this offseason. I still don't know for sure if that will happen. Scott Harris trade acquisition that works in his favor still, but unfortunately it's kind of tough to see where he fits.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: Zach McKinstry.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: Single? Pinch hit? Pinch hit? I think there's a strong chance he's on the team next year. I also don't know that for a fact. There's been many other times where it seemed like maybe it's time to move on from Zach McKinstry. The Tigers didn't do it. In a lot of those cases, they were rewarded for it. The weird thing about McKinstry, it's like Torkelson. If you're going to move on from McKinstry, you're probably just going to be a for another left-handed hitter who can play a bundle of different positions. McKinstry's a good defender. He was really good in right field this year. You'd like to see more out of the bat, but I don't. I'm going to go pinch hit. That's one of the tough decisions the Tigers have on their hands this year, but I almost actually lean toward him returning.
00:10:21
Speaker 2: All right. How you Lee?
00:10:25
Speaker 3: How you Lee?
00:10:28
Speaker 2: Double. Double.
00:10:29
Speaker 3: He's a big part of the Tigers' future. I think he's going to be on the roster next year. It's a matter of what is the role. Is he your starting second baseman? Is he going to play second and third? How much is he going to play against right-hand pitching? Is the defense going to improve? All that good stuff. But really a pretty big and important year for how you Lee. Almost neither one of us mentioned him as a rookie of the year, non-Kevin McGonigal candidate on our last episode, but Howie Lee is going to be on the bus next year, I think, and that's good.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: All right.
00:11:04
Speaker 1: Another one of the guys that's a little bit in the more forgotten category, Kerry Carpenter.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: Ooh, Kerry, Kerry, Kerry. I think single, I mean, I think it's interesting that A.J. Hinch was pretty forthright that this is a big offseason for Carpenter. He still has just massive pop from the left side. So I don't think they're getting rid of him. But it's like, how much can you afford to play him in the outfield? Can he stay healthy if he's playing in the outfield? If he's mostly just playing DH, how much.
00:11:40
Speaker 2: Value does he have?
00:11:41
Speaker 3: I think he's still such a chess piece, a weapon, that A.J. overall likes having him. It's a pretty big year for Carey to prove His worth, the injuries aren't really his fault, but to prove he can stay healthy and even to hit better. As much as I love his power, he chased, he didn't walk, he really did not hit well when he was on the field this year. So going single, but he might be down in the count a little bit trying to battle back.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: That's a good analogy. We're taking this analogy to the furthest it will go.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: Max Clark.
00:12:20
Speaker 3: Max Clark, he's a triple. Massive, massive part of the future. Can he get that contract extension? Does he want a contract extension? I don't know the answer to those. If I were the Tigers, I'd certainly be having those discussions. And then it's just like, what is the right value? What is the right price? Not sure, but Max, really impressive. First taste of the big leagues and huge part of everything the Tigers are doing.
00:12:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with everything there.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: Another kind of interesting one, Javi Baez.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: I guess pinch hit. I mean, Javi's got one more year on his deal. Now that it's down to one year, could you eat most of that and try to trade him now that he's versatile? Is there another team who would like him? Do you just accept, hey, this is what it is, try not to play him a lot? I think he starts the year on the team. I think there's a world where if he's not hitting and he's not playing and things aren't going well, it's more palatable than ever for them to just say, all right, well, we can kind of wash our hands of this thing now. And to Javi's credit, he's done his best to kind of stay viable and done it by playing other positions. But there's still a world where he's the starting shortstop next year. I don't know. I think the best version of the Tigers team probably finds another solution there, but it's not out of the question. So I'm going to go pinch hit. I think he's a little bit of a weird– I think he's probably on the team, but it's like just because you're paying him $ 22- plus million. So then you've got to figure out what to do with him.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I anticipate him being like the opening day, starting shortstop and then kind of like eventually sort of like being like phased out to more like the super utility. But you start out kind of using as much as you can of them and then kind of things filter there where they naturally will be.
00:14:25
Speaker 2: Wenzel Perez.
00:14:29
Speaker 3: Penchette, I think he's, you know. still relatively young, at least in terms of big league experience, switch hitter, that always bodes in his favor, unfortunate injury this year, man, really sucked, the fractured orbital bone, and the freak weight room accident, not his fault at all, but, you know, he was, for as much as we've kind of liked Winslow, and he's come through in a lot of big moments, his overall statistical production was pretty replacement level, maybe slightly above replacement level, so, As the team gets older, as you have other guys knocking on the door of the 40-man roster, as there's competition in the outfield, it becomes a prove-it year for Wenzel for sure. I think he's kind of in the pinch-hit category of like, well, you like this guy, but what does that actually mean? I'm not sure. Wenzel's going to have to come to spring training, and he'll certainly be competing for a job. Yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker 2: Ben Malgeri.
00:15:30
Speaker 3: Ooh, I'm going to go single. I think he just, he's coming off a lot of positive momentum, right? He's kind of part of this next wave, even though he's not as young as some of the other prospects. But I think what he did left an impression, both defensively on the bases, a little bit at the plate. I think he still has to come compete for a job, but um I think right now he kind of has a little bit of a leg up on a guy like Wenzel or certainly a guy like Matt Vierling just because he's coming off a positive.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Season Eduardo Valencia.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: Oh double I think I think the Tigers really like Mal Jerry does not speak badly of Mal Jerry but overall talk to Scouts, whatever, still a little unsure what the bat is going to do at the big league level. Whereas Valencia, I've already kind of seen what upside the bat has at the big league level. This is a dude they're going to want to get a lot more at bats. It seems like they feel fine enough about him behind the plate. We'll see what that ultimately looks like. But a guy who potentially could be a very big part of this team's future, I'll go double.
00:16:50
Speaker 2: Brett Callahan.
00:16:52
Speaker 3: Brett Callahan. Is he single or is he pinch hit? I think there were some good vibes around Callahan, but ultimately I don't think he was as good as Maljiri. I think he doesn't have quite as good of a roster case as Maljiri. Maljiri's a right-handed hitter, which the Tigers could use. I'll go pinch hit. It was still a great year for Brett Callahan just to put himself on the map and get to the major leagues. Now once in the major leagues, Man, he had that home run early on. That was his only home run. Chased 40% of the time, whiffed 29% of the time, 33% strikeout rate. For those reasons, I'm going to go pinch hitter. Come to camp with a chance to win a job, but certainly has some pretty clear, tangible things to improve on at the plate.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Another tough one, Parker Meadows.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: Man. I think he's a pinch hit, but it's Parker Meadows. You put him in there, he could always surprise you. I don't know. I think this guy's too talented. His skill set is too valuable for the Tigers to give up before they have to, is my opinion. Now, he's been injured when he has been on the field the last couple years. The production with the bat has not been good. I don't know what they do with that. It seems like Max Clark has kind of usurped him as he's going to be the center fielder. But is there a Jake Marisnyk type role for Parker Meadows where he's a fourth outfielder who's just a plus to plus plus level defensive outfielder and maybe still more upside than Jake Marisnyk out of the plate? That world exists. I don't know what next year looks like for Parker Meadows. It could be Toledo. It could be a fourth outfielder. It could be somewhere else, but this guy's pretty good. Ultimately, I gave him a pinch hit because of just the uncertainty. And then if you're going to have Riley, Max, Parker, Carey, it's a lot of left-handed outfielders. So I don't know, but his skill set still has a lot of value.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: What about Fromber Valdez?
00:19:04
Speaker 3: Fromber, well, you're paying him. You're paying him. You get a triple at the least in my book now. Big year for Fromber because I'm sure when Fromber initially signed that deal, three years, $ 115 million with an opt-out after two. You put the opt-out after two because you're hoping to opt out and get another big deal. Fromber is not on track to do that after posting an ERA above four in his first year with the Tigers. But if he gets back on track, he could certainly make a case for himself to opt out. We'll see. It's going to be tough to match the, what, almost $ 38 million he's getting in the AAV right now. But I don't know. Get someone else to give you a four- or five-year deal. there's a chance. Whatever it is, Fran Bervaldez is going to show up next year. He's going to make $ 38 million. He's probably going to be your opening day starter. So go in triple.
00:20:02
Speaker 2: Troy Melton.
00:20:03
Speaker 3: Troy Melton. Triple. I wish we knew the status of his arm. But regardless, the Tigers think he's a massive part of their future. I think they'd like him to be a front-line type guy for this rotation for years to come.
00:20:22
Speaker 1: All right, we'll go ahead and put Jack Flaherty in the walk category.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: What about Drew Anderson?
00:20:32
Speaker 3: I expect him to pick up that option, be the last year on his deal, rolls unclear, single. Speed around with the pitchers here.
00:20:40
Speaker 2: Speed round. All right.
00:20:41
Speaker 3: Jackson, Job, Jackson, Job, triple. They'd like him to be their next ace. They haven't paid him yet. Uh, it was encouraging that he, he started to look a lot better. His final few outings, huge year for Job to see if he can stay healthy and live up to the potential, but triple Tyler Holton, Tyler Holton, single tight. Tyler Holton had a better year than, than he gets, uh, than he gets credit for. There's no doubt about that. Um, I think he's back, but I think he's a single.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: River Ryan.
00:21:18
Speaker 3: Triple. Remember the Scooble trade? I mean, really, if there's one player who could define the Scott Harris tenure, it's River Ryan. They got to get it right on this guy. They think he can be an ace. He could end up a closer. He could end up an injured mess who never pitches. The array of outcomes is so wide, but he is a massively important player for the Tigers.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Let's go with... Emmanuel DeJesus.
00:21:52
Speaker 3: Hmm. That's a weird one. Single, I guess. I don't know. Single?
00:22:01
Speaker 2: Single, all right.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: Versatile. Has some length. Could do a lot worse.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: Grant Herter.
00:22:05
Speaker 3: Herter? Herter? I mean, is it bad if I just give all the bullpen guys singles? You know, they're not good. It's just like, you know how, unfortunately all relievers are ultimately somewhat disposable. I'm giving them all singles, except I'll give, I'll give Drew Summers a double because the Tigers are super high on him and his upside is, is really, really high.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: All right. Best still a single.
00:22:31
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how much time he's going to miss. I mean, It's certainly a guy you would like to get healthy, but he's also, well, he's also hurt. He's ARB, is he ARB 3? I don't know what I'm doing with Will Vest. I'd like to know more about how much time he's going to miss.
00:22:57
Speaker 2: Finnegan.
00:22:58
Speaker 3: 4.4 million for a hurt pitcher. I think it depends how much time you expect him to miss last year. I don't know what to make of that one. Kyle Finnegan, he's under contract. Really needs to have a better year, but he's going to come back, get paid, be a member of your bullpen, so he's a single.
00:23:18
Speaker 2: What about Wegesbeck?
00:23:23
Speaker 3: I guess he doesn't have that much service time, right?
00:23:30
Speaker 2: Doing this on the fly here.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: He is.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: Doesn't have much service time, so he's coming back. He's under control. Yeah, pinch hit. I think he did really good. He was very effective at times for the Tigers, but will ultimately have to earn his roster spot next spring. He finished with a 2-4-9 ERA. He only struck out 6.7 guys per nine innings. Don't love that.
00:24:02
Speaker 2: Bo Briski?
00:24:04
Speaker 3: Pinch hit. Really like Bo. Had a couple outings where you thought maybe you started to see the old bow and had some other outings where he just didn't look comfortable. Finished with a. 497 ERA. Stuff was completely up and down. I think you've got to keep kind of trying it, but man, no guarantee at all.
00:24:30
Speaker 1: I'm just going to bring in one more hitter just because I feel like it should be talked about a little bit more. Jace Young, the guy that just has been like, he's 40, man, and he doesn't get that many opportunities.
00:24:47
Speaker 3: You know, I think both of us have kind of historically defended like the Jace Youngs and Max Andersons. Like, why aren't these guys getting opportunities? And I do think Jace Young can be a big league caliber hitter. It's hard for me to, like, it seems like the Tigers have made it very clear what they think of Jace Young. They don't think he's part of what they're doing. That's okay. I think he could be elsewhere. I think as 40 men get spots, get tight, he could certainly be a guy who is let go or cut or traded or whatever it might be. So I almost lean toward Wok. I kind of hope he walks. I'd like to see what happens if he gets a shot in another organization.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. Teams tell you what they think. You've got to believe them.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: All right, so to recap this very unscientific experiment, you have the home run with McGonagall, seven triples, five doubles.
00:25:44
Speaker 3: There's no way I gave out seven triples. Riley Green, Dylan Dingler, Max Clark, I guess Melton, Ryan Jobe. No, I gave him a double. Counting the pitchers, maybe six.
00:26:01
Speaker 1: Five doubles, an infinite number of singles because of the pitchers, and you really like the pinch hit choice because it felt fitting.
00:26:11
Speaker 2: So basically what this exercise.
00:26:13
Speaker 3: Can we go back to this arbitration list? We'll talk about this a little more deeper in the offseason. Yeah. You got some tough decisions here, man. When you look at the salaries, Will Vest projects to make 4.4. Zach McKinstry, 5. Matt Vierling, 3.7. Tyler Holton, I think he's good at two points. Even Kerry Carpenter, 4.1 million. Bo Briski, 1.5. Winslow Perez, 1.4. It's a reminder that these guys are getting older. They're not all as cheap as they once were. The guys who used to cost you one to two are now costing you four to five million. And although in the grand scheme of things, that's cheap, but then suddenly you keep five of these guys and there's 25 million of your payroll. I think I lean toward most of these guys coming back, but I'm not sure you can bring them all back. There might be one or two more in here who's not returning.
00:27:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's part of it. I think one of the lessons of 2026 is holding on to guys perhaps maybe a little bit too long. And this perfectly sets up what we're going to talk about next week, is that some of these guys are not going to be– brought back or at least holding 40-man spots. And we're going to try to project that out here pretty soon. But I think what this teaches us is there's a lot of variance on this roster. You have some high end, but still a lot of variance. And they could easily bring a lot of these guys back to just kind of keep the mix going and see kind of where the dust settles. Or there could be a case where people look more expendable than at this time last year.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: What the Tigers need, Kieran, is more doubles. They have the high end, the homer, the triples. Every team is going to have a bunch of singles and pinch hits. It's kind of the doubles who get you there and get you to the playoffs. Those guys who are solid major league players that you really like and you really trust, even if they're not quite superstars. So something to keep in mind there.
00:28:23
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:28:24
Speaker 1: So, Hope you guys enjoyed that little exercise in roster construction and analysis. Tried to do things a little bit different here on Tiger Territory. So if you like what we had to say or think we're idiots, you guys can tell us. You can follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Cody Stabenhagen. I am at Kieran underscore Steklia. Pod page is at Tiger Territory underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: You guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you so far. Cody Stabenhagen. I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have a great day.
