WEBVTT
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Welcome to Three Martini Lunch, the podcast where great drinks fuel even better conversations.
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I'm Julian Cox, award-winning bartender and restauranteur.
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I spent the past two decades opening restaurants and building bar programs alongside some of the world's most celebrated chefs.
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Joining us today is a true culinary icon, Michelin Award-winning chef, restaurant tour, and undeniable force of nature, Nancy Silverton.
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Nancy has restaurants, Osteria Moza, Pizzeria Moza, and Quispac in Los Angeles, as well as acclaimed destinations in DC, Mexico, Hawaii, and Singapore.
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Her restaurants are places that people plan their entire trips around.
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She's redefined Italian dining in America, elevated bread and pasta into art forms, and set a global standard for hospitality.
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And today, she is joining us here at her flagship, Osteria Moza, here in Los Angeles, for three completely original martinis that I've created just for her.
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And she'll be trying them for the first time here.
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This is 3 Martini Lunch, presented by Castro Elian Vodka.
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All right, uh, this first martini is uh martini castle voltrano.
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I know you're a fan of olives, so I did an olive infusion, a Castle Voltrano infusion, and there's also beautiful olive oil infusion as well.
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And then on the top, it's a spray of a little bit of cell grip.
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So you get a little salinity, a little bit of brininess, and a touch of olive oil.
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Enjoy.
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Wow.
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I love that it's a Castel Voltrano martini without an olive in it.
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There's an added body from the oil, which is very interesting.
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So it's more of a surprise on the palate than actually the flavor.
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I have to tell you a story.
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Many years ago, I was a young uh bartender working in the city, and I came to Pizzeria Mode, so I ordered the Boudino, and the Boudino comes out with this little cookie with the rosemary cookie.
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And I was just sitting there kind of marveling over just how much I enjoyed the two with each other.
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And so I went on to create this drink that season at John Settler's restaurant Rivera.
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And that drink became like I just got asked to talk about it after 25 years of restaurant publication being open.
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They said it was one of the most important drinks on the West Coast.
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And that was really because of you.
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And you know what's interesting is nobody knows how to eat that dessert.
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And that was the whole intention was to create a crunch, right, to complement the flavor of the pudding.
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And when I'm able to talk about it or instruct people how to eat it, I always say a bite of pudding, a small bite of cookie, because they're meant to go together.
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But if I'm not there, right, to dictate, nobody eats it that way.
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And I don't think anybody gets it.
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You know, they look at it probably like a mint leaf or something, you know?
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But exactly, and uh, and that's if I had to say what I'm most proud of that dessert, it was a flavor combination that I never thought about before, caramel and rosemary.
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Yeah.
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And yet it works.
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Oh, it works so good.
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I've read and I've heard you talk a lot about, you know, when you first got into cooking, food was a communal time for the family.
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But once you started getting into professional cooking, you didn't like the rigidity, I guess, of it.
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Is that is that true or something?
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Yeah, it's very, that's very accurate.
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And, you know, so when I think of my food memories, as you pointed out, it wasn't about the food at the table growing up.
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Although my mother loved to cook and she prided herself on what she cooked.
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It just wasn't my palate at the time.
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Um, but my memory is the importance of being at the table with people you love, with the conversation you have.
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Yeah.
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And so that memory has absolutely been the guiding light in the food that I create because for me, food is to be eaten at a table with people you want to eat with, right?
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And it's not supposed to dominate the experience.
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You know, I feel like not only these days, but early on in my cooking career, there were restaurants that you sat at at the table, and you were almost, it felt like you were forced to worship at the table the chef who created this food.
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So there should be silence and no conversation and no laughter, right?
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And it's really the antithesis of what I want to do.
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I want to cook good food, but I want it to be the uh, I want it to feed the conversation, not to dominate the conversation.
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Uh back in 1989, right, when I started Le Bray Bakery, for instance, there weren't bakeries around then, really, in Los Angeles.
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Yeah.
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Um and so it was very easy for restaurants to get by with bad bread.
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But once you set the standard and people become educated, it's no longer acceptable.
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So all of a sudden, all these people had to make put better bread on their table.
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And just like cocktail programs, right?
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I mean, if you would have said to me that there's such a thing as a cocktail program, I would have said, What's a cocktail program?
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You know?
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, and now it's expected.
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Yeah.
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So you kind of ruined the world, right?
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Um so you you talked a little bit about the focus and obsession it kind of takes to do something well, and even sort of the competitive nature of the way that you kind of look at certain things related to food, and I feel the same way with food in my cooking, and also when I'm making drinks and creating in general.
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Do you know what drives that or what really brings that out?
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Well, clearly we're obsessed people.
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Yeah, there's no getting around that.
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Um, but I, you know, when I talk to um cooks when they're when they're in the beginning of, let's say, what, creating a dish?
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It's a weird word, creating, but creating a dish, right?
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And then they present it, you know.
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Um and I'm always curious to ask them, or I'm always curious, thinking in my mind, you know, initially, and then asking them, is it finished?
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And I think the mistake that people make in, well, let's just say the food world, because that that's what we're talking about, is that they're ready to accept a drink or a dish at a level when it's not finished.
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You know, they're not being honest with themselves.
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So maybe they've done it 20 times and they're sick of it.
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And it's like, okay, this is good enough.
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But good enough is not finished.
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And I think the real skill comes in when you realize that you've achieved, right?
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Yeah.
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Like you know along the way, and you get sick of tasting, right?
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And your mouth gets confused, and you want to say it's good, and you know intellectually, yeah, and in your heart it's not there yet.
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Yeah.
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And that's, I think, the difference between the obsess and the person that is willing to compromise.
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Do you agree?
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I agree 100%.
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Yeah.
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Totally agree.
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Don't compromise.
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Don't compromise.
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All right, Nancy, you ready for the next martini?
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Let's do it.
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Okay.
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Here's your signature cocktail, uh, the espresso martini.
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This one is not mine.
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This is actually yours.
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This is the espresso martini from right here where we're doing this interview.
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Your flagship restaurant, Osteria Mozza.
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Cheers.
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Cheers.
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And I'm sure there's bad versions of espresso martinis.
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The only ones I've ever had are here.
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Yeah.
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Good?
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It's always great.
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Love the fresh pull of espresso, is kind of to me, it has to happen.
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You have to pull espresso.
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Oftentimes you see people use coffee liqueur, or they'll use cold brew.
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Um but the bitterness uh and the crema that comes on the top from using uh real coffee, it's just can't beat it.
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And that's not coming from is it coming also from the shaken or something?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It comes from uh comes from both.
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Um true true espresso has that beautiful crema on top, which is what we all love when we have espresso, and then shaking it will also create the air that will kind of permeate the top of the drink as well, kind of creating a foam.
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What I'm enjoying about both of them is that cocktails don't have to be sweet.
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And I think that that's something that you really started from the beginning, and I think it made everybody revisit that a cocktail doesn't have to taste like a Shirley Temple.
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No, absolutely, and it's really interesting too because a lot of stuff that um that that I'll do is also sometimes savory, which is like, you know, I think is a unique play.
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A little bit more difficult to do savory and do it well, but again, it it makes people open to trying things that are a little bit unique, like the olives that we had that were infused in in the um the martini before and so on and so forth.
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So you can do these things to kind of take it down.
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And things don't have to be sweet.
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By the way, they're actually a lot better when they're not.
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Yeah.
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So beyond LA, in your recent travels, any places that you've been that have completely kind of blown your mind.
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I'm just gonna say that people ask me all the time, what's your favorite meal, or what's the best meal you've had, or something like that.
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And I always say the best meal is the last one that I had, right?
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So I just got back from DC, where I have a restaurant.
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And then we also ate at a ra a restaurant.
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I hope I have it correct.
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I want to say Moon Rabbit.
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Oh, Moonrabbit, it is Moonrabbit.
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Uh yeah, that place is incredible too.
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And she's an incredible pastry chef there as well.
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Incredible pastry chef.
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And and the food, I mean, it so much of it went right over my head because I'm just not familiar with the ingredients that they name.
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But to be able to appreciate such a talent.
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I agree.
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Uh, and this is in DC, where years ago I think it was really a food desert.
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There's so many good restaurants in DC now.
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Yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
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It's such an exciting city.
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Doc, can you tell us about something that was maybe not fantastic or an awful experience that you've had recently?
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Yeah, probably one of my restaurants.
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And that's where I really am the most critical.
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Yeah.
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And um ultimately the most disappointed.
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You know, when I know how a dish is supposed to be.
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Exactly what you mean.
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And then it comes and it's I have to take a few deep breaths, and I uh have to, I know that I have to be uh polite, kind-ish in my uh criticism of the dish, but that's where it really hurts, you know?
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Yeah.
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And that's where I just get that angst.
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How did you react after that?
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What was your what were the next steps after that happened?
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Firstly, I walk away, and then I come back and I try to walk through the dish again.
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So what it was was that the pizzeria, we have a few entrees, not a lot, but a few entrees.
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One of my favorite, look, I'm gonna knock this over again with my hands.
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I'm getting all excited, is a fish dish, right?
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And it's a baked fish dish because we try to use our wood-burning oven as much as possible.
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So it's a sea bass that is going on top of a tomato bell pepper kind of sauce, but the sauce has to be prepared ahead of time.
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So it's cooked in such a way that it's kind of jammy.
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And then when it goes in the oven and it bakes for a very short amount of time because the filet is thin, you know.
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Um, but the sauce reduces, gets a little kissed by the flame, so it gets charred in a few places.
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Um, and what came out was something very watery.
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And what upsets me about it is that the food that we do at all of our restaurants, in a sense, is so um simple that it's all about kind of the the technique and the finesse.
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Well, absolutely the ingredients.
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But it turns it's so it's the same ingredients, so in theory it will taste the same, but because it wasn't properly executed, it's a completely different dish.
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And so I could eat that at another restaurant and just say, like, well, I didn't care for that.
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Because there was nothing bad about it, that's the whole thing.
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Yeah, it's just that it wasn't right.
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Yeah.
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And um, and that's when I, you know, t get upset, is like when I when it's gone through so many channels.
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It's gone through the person making it, it's gone to the chef that's sending it out, and it's gone gone through the server.
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Yeah, and you've already got all those levels and all those eyes and ears, you know, and the levels that are supposed to exist, yeah, and they all failed.
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Yeah.
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So when you do have to talk to, you know, staff about things that are areas of improvement, right?
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What does that look like?
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Well, I think you got to start with the bottom, the person that made the sauce.
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So you need to ask, do you remember how to make it?
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And then we relook at the recipe.
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Don't forget this has to be cooked down, that's when you add this, you know, and go through the steps and make sure they're being executed.
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And then go to the chef that is actually putting that fish on it in the oven to remind them to recognize when it's not the way it's supposed to be.
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Right?
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And then finally, the server saying, Do you remember when we first did this dish, what it looked like, and it doesn't look like that anymore.
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Don't be afraid to say something to the chef and say, Is this right?
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But the the great thing about mistakes and the great thing about getting a bad review is that you learn from them.
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So that's what mistakes are for.
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Absolutely.
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I feel like those times that things go wrong teach you more about yourself than the things that go right.
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Yep.
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All right, Nancy, ready for drink number three?
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Sure am.
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This is our third and final martini.
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This drink is based on pear.
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This is Castra Elion.
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I made a pear amazake.
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So I let the pears sit and I took parsnips and made a parsnip amazake.
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So what happens with parsnip is after it uh gets uh mixed with koji and it sits for uh several hours under heat, flavor profiles change, and you get all these vanillins and you get all these really interesting flavors from the parsnip.
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How did you know that, by the way?
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I'm just in your cooking?
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So in my cooking, so I cook a tremendous amount, and through my cooking, I had heard about the enzymatic properties of amazake, which was I thought was amazing to me.
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I also make a lot of ice cream and I got into like amazake ice cream, which I think is another really cool way to make ice cream, just because the flavor profiles are interesting and the texture is really great, which I'm a huge fan of texture in ice cream.
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And um, through that, I took the flavor of pear and amazake coming from parsnip when that when it changes flavors and you get these really beautiful vanillins.
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So I thought it would be fun to combine those.
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And then to make it Italian, there's Miley de Corbezzello, which is a bitter honey.
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And there's a littlezzolo, yeah.
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Is my favorite honey.
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Oh, it is.
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And I have a couple of trees in Italy, and nobody but you know what it is.
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Wow.
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And uh it's the most expensive honey you can buy.
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Yes.
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And uh I'm not, I think it's the bees that pollinate the trees.
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There's something about how rare it is, but I know that at my house I have bushes.
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And I want to know how you found it, how you found the honey.
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Uh so I found the honey one Jonathan Gold's favorite honey as well.
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We shared an affinity for that honey.
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I did, I actually did know that as well.
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Um, and huge fan of Jonathan Gold, miss him every day.
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He was such an amazing guy.
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I got to use it for the first time at Soto with Steve Sampson and Zach Pollock.
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There you go.
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Okay, so another knowledgeable person.
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Yeah.
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And I uh and I just would never not use it after you've tasted it.
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So I just wanted to include something like that in a in a cocktail.
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Is this a new cocktail for you or no?
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I made this for you.
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So if I never made it before.
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Yeah.
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When I look at something like a drink or a plate or a bowl, I always think, now, could I wear that?
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I can wear that.
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Cheers.
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This is wearable.
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Cheers.
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Cheers.
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Enjoy.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:24.080
Wow.
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.360
And not in a sweet way.
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:31.840
Yes.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:32.879
Want to keep it dry.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.399
Because it's an overwhelming, it's a powerful flavor, that honey.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:36.960
Yeah.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.279
So I want to talk a little bit about the new project that you're working on right now.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.360
You're gonna be opening up in the Palisades.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.600
Yes.
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.320
And I know they've been through so much recently.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:50.960
Can you talk a little bit about what that's like and that experience that you're getting into?
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.120
Yeah, you know, I really never had been to that Palisades village before.
00:16:55.440 --> 00:17:00.720
But I know that people that live there, they loved it because they didn't have to travel.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:12.000
But in order to get the people back, every single uh location was stripped down to the studs so that there was no carcinogenics and things like that.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.400
So this is a huge project, and everybody's gonna open at the same time.
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:25.119
Now, had Rick Caruso asked me to open a restaurant in the Palisades village pre-fire, I would have said no.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.359
I would have said most likely that I don't need another restaurant in Los Angeles.
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:34.559
I don't want to make that, you know, commute, and I it's just not the right opportunity for me.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:45.119
But given the circumstances, um it really didn't even take a second thought to say, yes, I want to be a part of this rebuilding.
00:17:45.359 --> 00:18:05.359
And what has given me a lot of uh joy is the amount of people that I have run into that lost their homes in the Palisades that said, now I don't know if it's true or not, but they said, you opening a restaurant there has been the deciding element that have gotten us to rebuild.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.880
So that makes me feel really good.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.079
But that's really why I'm there.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:15.440
I'm ready, I'm there because of being a part of this rebuilding in a devastating area.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:22.640
And obviously the same would have happened if someone from Altadina had said, we are redoing this area, can we put a restaurant in?
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.200
I mean, it would have been the same response.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.519
Um, but it's gonna be, we're borrowing part of the name of Spaca.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.640
It's gonna be spaca tuto, which is spaca let's go.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.079
Um, but I'm not sure how much of the menu of spaca.
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:47.920
It's just gonna be a small part of spaca, and then more so of a kind of Italian-y, Spanish-y, steakhousey kind of a restaurant.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.400
Any any dishes there there that you're excited about?
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:51.680
Anything that you're gonna do a little differently?
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:58.160
I'm sort of obsessed with the way the grill is used in Spain, even more so than here or in the U.S.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:18:59.839
And you use like a are you using a Josper?
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:00.480
Or are you using a?
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.799
There will be a Jasper and there'll probably be a str a regular grill as well.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:11.200
Because this Jasper really gets a lot of smoke in there if you and if you don't want it in some of the more delicate things up.
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.880
So I think there'll be hopefully the kitchen will be big enough that they'll be both options.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:16.559
That's cool.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:17.039
That's cool.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.400
I love a good Jasper of it.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.640
Yeah.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.920
So with all the devastation there um in the Palestades, what is it like trying to find?
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.000
Is it harder to find staff and people that are able to work there?
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.359
What's that process like?
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.960
You know, look at the rebuilding is slow.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:38.000
Um, and I know that, certainly Rick definitely knows that.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:46.720
And there's gonna be challenges in getting people there at the beginning because there won't be that finished neighborhood.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.200
Right?
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.000
So that's good.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.200
So our expectations are realistic.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:20:06.640
So we know we're not gonna be, you know, seven days a week align out the door like Max and Helen's, which is, you know, a smaller, a smaller restaurant in a uh a more affordable area.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.759
After you've opened so many restaurants now, how do you uh identify the right people for your team?
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:25.039
I look for people because the kind of kitchens and the front of the house that I look for are people that want to um contribute, not people that want to clock in.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:39.359
Um and so I look for that for both front of the house and back of the house, people that I feel like I can work with, and uh people that are coming to me for all the right reasons.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:45.519
When you're looking at a food program and a beverage program, how do you see them kind of interacting with each other?
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:49.440
And how do you look at that as an operator of your restaurants?
00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:57.359
You know, I think that there's so many components uh involved in making a great restaurant, right?
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:06.319
And uh with it with each addition, it only makes it better, and it's just staying contemporary.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:18.799
And um people like you that have that added a cocktail component to a restaurant, sort of up the bar.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.359
All of a sudden, Rivera had a cocktail program.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.480
Yeah, that's where I'm gonna go eat.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:35.599
And so all of a sudden, it made everybody relook at their cocktail programs and say, well, look at that's my competition.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.000
We need to up our ante.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.720
Just like great services, a great wine list.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:51.119
If I could predict what the next layer of fine dining w was, I would be at the top of my game.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:51.759
But I don't know.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:58.160
But there's gonna be something that re that not replaces the cocktail, yeah, but adds to it.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:58.640
You know?
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.200
Yeah.
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:15.119
At one point there was a restaurant that kind of got ridiculed for it in New York that I think it was New York or maybe it was France, I think New York, where they presented a pen program, not a pen program, but the choice of pens to sign your bill.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:15.519
Oh, yes.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.960
And it came out to the table and there was 10 pens and you could pick, right?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.200
Yeah.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.359
Um, and this is of the that they got poo-pooed by the critics.
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:31.440
But anyway, it's like those added uh benefits or uh an added layer to a great restaurant.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:39.519
So if you were asking me if a cocktail program is important in a restaurant, I would say absolutely.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:40.480
Yeah.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.200
Well, thank you so much for being with us on the show.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:45.440
It was so wonderful to catch up with you.
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:46.480
Absolutely.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.440
Thank you so much.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.400
Huge thanks to Nancy Silverton for joining us today.
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:54.480
It's proof that greatness is built on instinct, discipline, and just the right amount of obsession.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:58.880
I'm Julian Cox, and this conversation was made even better by Costra Elian vodka.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.039
Crafted to be savored, whether at the table, behind the bar, or deep in conversation.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:09.839
If you enjoyed this episode, like, subscribe, and share it with someone who appreciates great food, great drinks, and stories behind them.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.400
Until next time, keep your martinis cold.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.559
Your lunch is long, and your standards high.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.039
This has been Three Martini Lunch.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:18.480
Welcome to Three Martini Lunch, the podcast where great drinks fuel even better conversations.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.280
I'm Julian Cox, award-winning bartender and restauranteur.
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:27.440
I spent the past two decades opening restaurants and building bar programs alongside some of the world's most celebrated chefs.
00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:34.560
Joining us today is a true culinary icon, Michelin Award-winning chef, restaurant tour, and undeniable force of nature, Nancy Silverton.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:43.439
Nancy has restaurants, Osteria Moza, Pizzeria Moza, and Quispac in Los Angeles, as well as acclaimed destinations in DC, Mexico, Hawaii, and Singapore.
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:46.479
Her restaurants are places that people plan their entire trips around.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:52.399
She's redefined Italian dining in America, elevated bread and pasta into art forms, and set a global standard for hospitality.
00:00:52.560 --> 00:01:01.359
And today, she is joining us here at her flagship, Osteria Moza, here in Los Angeles, for three completely original martinis that I've created just for her.
00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:04.000
And she'll be trying them for the first time here.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.400
This is 3 Martini Lunch, presented by Castro Elian Vodka.
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:24.000
All right, uh, this first martini is uh martini castle voltrano.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:31.760
I know you're a fan of olives, so I did an olive infusion, a Castle Voltrano infusion, and there's also beautiful olive oil infusion as well.
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.280
And then on the top, it's a spray of a little bit of cell grip.
00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.879
So you get a little salinity, a little bit of brininess, and a touch of olive oil.
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:40.719
Enjoy.
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:43.840
Wow.
00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.840
I love that it's a Castel Voltrano martini without an olive in it.
00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:53.760
There's an added body from the oil, which is very interesting.
00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:59.120
So it's more of a surprise on the palate than actually the flavor.
00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:00.400
I have to tell you a story.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:12.719
Many years ago, I was a young uh bartender working in the city, and I came to Pizzeria Mode, so I ordered the Boudino, and the Boudino comes out with this little cookie with the rosemary cookie.
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:17.840
And I was just sitting there kind of marveling over just how much I enjoyed the two with each other.
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:22.800
And so I went on to create this drink that season at John Settler's restaurant Rivera.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.599
And that drink became like I just got asked to talk about it after 25 years of restaurant publication being open.
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.759
They said it was one of the most important drinks on the West Coast.
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.520
And that was really because of you.
00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:37.360
And you know what's interesting is nobody knows how to eat that dessert.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:47.120
And that was the whole intention was to create a crunch, right, to complement the flavor of the pudding.
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:56.879
And when I'm able to talk about it or instruct people how to eat it, I always say a bite of pudding, a small bite of cookie, because they're meant to go together.
00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.960
But if I'm not there, right, to dictate, nobody eats it that way.
00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:02.240
And I don't think anybody gets it.
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.520
You know, they look at it probably like a mint leaf or something, you know?
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:18.560
But exactly, and uh, and that's if I had to say what I'm most proud of that dessert, it was a flavor combination that I never thought about before, caramel and rosemary.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:19.039
Yeah.
00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:20.159
And yet it works.
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:21.360
Oh, it works so good.
00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:28.960
I've read and I've heard you talk a lot about, you know, when you first got into cooking, food was a communal time for the family.
00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.479
But once you started getting into professional cooking, you didn't like the rigidity, I guess, of it.
00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:33.759
Is that is that true or something?
00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:35.680
Yeah, it's very, that's very accurate.
00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:44.639
And, you know, so when I think of my food memories, as you pointed out, it wasn't about the food at the table growing up.
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:49.439
Although my mother loved to cook and she prided herself on what she cooked.
00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:52.400
It just wasn't my palate at the time.
00:03:52.719 --> 00:04:00.240
Um, but my memory is the importance of being at the table with people you love, with the conversation you have.
00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:00.560
Yeah.
00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:18.160
And so that memory has absolutely been the guiding light in the food that I create because for me, food is to be eaten at a table with people you want to eat with, right?
00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:23.759
And it's not supposed to dominate the experience.
00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:44.240
You know, I feel like not only these days, but early on in my cooking career, there were restaurants that you sat at at the table, and you were almost, it felt like you were forced to worship at the table the chef who created this food.
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:49.199
So there should be silence and no conversation and no laughter, right?
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:53.439
And it's really the antithesis of what I want to do.
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I want to cook good food, but I want it to be the uh, I want it to feed the conversation, not to dominate the conversation.
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:13.120
Uh back in 1989, right, when I started Le Bray Bakery, for instance, there weren't bakeries around then, really, in Los Angeles.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:13.439
Yeah.
00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:19.279
Um and so it was very easy for restaurants to get by with bad bread.
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:27.199
But once you set the standard and people become educated, it's no longer acceptable.
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.800
So all of a sudden, all these people had to make put better bread on their table.
00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.040
And just like cocktail programs, right?
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:39.120
I mean, if you would have said to me that there's such a thing as a cocktail program, I would have said, What's a cocktail program?
00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:39.519
You know?
00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:40.240
Absolutely.
00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.319
Yeah, and now it's expected.
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:42.720
Yeah.
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.879
So you kind of ruined the world, right?
00:05:47.839 --> 00:06:06.560
Um so you you talked a little bit about the focus and obsession it kind of takes to do something well, and even sort of the competitive nature of the way that you kind of look at certain things related to food, and I feel the same way with food in my cooking, and also when I'm making drinks and creating in general.
00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.759
Do you know what drives that or what really brings that out?
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:12.560
Well, clearly we're obsessed people.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:14.959
Yeah, there's no getting around that.
00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:26.160
Um, but I, you know, when I talk to um cooks when they're when they're in the beginning of, let's say, what, creating a dish?
00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.279
It's a weird word, creating, but creating a dish, right?
00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.839
And then they present it, you know.
00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:41.199
Um and I'm always curious to ask them, or I'm always curious, thinking in my mind, you know, initially, and then asking them, is it finished?
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:58.079
And I think the mistake that people make in, well, let's just say the food world, because that that's what we're talking about, is that they're ready to accept a drink or a dish at a level when it's not finished.
00:06:58.240 --> 00:06:59.839
You know, they're not being honest with themselves.
00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:02.560
So maybe they've done it 20 times and they're sick of it.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:04.399
And it's like, okay, this is good enough.
00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.079
But good enough is not finished.
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:13.519
And I think the real skill comes in when you realize that you've achieved, right?
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:13.920
Yeah.
00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.959
Like you know along the way, and you get sick of tasting, right?
00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:25.120
And your mouth gets confused, and you want to say it's good, and you know intellectually, yeah, and in your heart it's not there yet.
00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:25.439
Yeah.
00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.879
And that's, I think, the difference between the obsess and the person that is willing to compromise.
00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:31.519
Do you agree?
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:32.399
I agree 100%.
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:32.800
Yeah.
00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:33.519
Totally agree.
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Don't compromise.
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:35.279
Don't compromise.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:37.439
All right, Nancy, you ready for the next martini?
00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:38.560
Let's do it.
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:43.120
Okay.
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.639
Here's your signature cocktail, uh, the espresso martini.
00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:47.279
This one is not mine.
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:48.240
This is actually yours.
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.759
This is the espresso martini from right here where we're doing this interview.
00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.720
Your flagship restaurant, Osteria Mozza.
00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.120
Cheers.
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:00.160
Cheers.
00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.439
And I'm sure there's bad versions of espresso martinis.
00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.120
The only ones I've ever had are here.
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:06.000
Yeah.
00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:07.519
Good?
00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:08.399
It's always great.
00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.839
Love the fresh pull of espresso, is kind of to me, it has to happen.
00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:13.199
You have to pull espresso.
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:17.759
Oftentimes you see people use coffee liqueur, or they'll use cold brew.
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:24.720
Um but the bitterness uh and the crema that comes on the top from using uh real coffee, it's just can't beat it.
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.079
And that's not coming from is it coming also from the shaken or something?
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:28.639
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.000
It comes from uh comes from both.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:41.039
Um true true espresso has that beautiful crema on top, which is what we all love when we have espresso, and then shaking it will also create the air that will kind of permeate the top of the drink as well, kind of creating a foam.
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.600
What I'm enjoying about both of them is that cocktails don't have to be sweet.
00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:57.440
And I think that that's something that you really started from the beginning, and I think it made everybody revisit that a cocktail doesn't have to taste like a Shirley Temple.
00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:07.759
No, absolutely, and it's really interesting too because a lot of stuff that um that that I'll do is also sometimes savory, which is like, you know, I think is a unique play.
00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:18.960
A little bit more difficult to do savory and do it well, but again, it it makes people open to trying things that are a little bit unique, like the olives that we had that were infused in in the um the martini before and so on and so forth.
00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:20.879
So you can do these things to kind of take it down.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:21.919
And things don't have to be sweet.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:23.759
By the way, they're actually a lot better when they're not.
00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:24.080
Yeah.
00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.879
So beyond LA, in your recent travels, any places that you've been that have completely kind of blown your mind.
00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:35.919
I'm just gonna say that people ask me all the time, what's your favorite meal, or what's the best meal you've had, or something like that.
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.759
And I always say the best meal is the last one that I had, right?
00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.279
So I just got back from DC, where I have a restaurant.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.840
And then we also ate at a ra a restaurant.
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:47.279
I hope I have it correct.
00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:48.559
I want to say Moon Rabbit.
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:49.919
Oh, Moonrabbit, it is Moonrabbit.
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:52.480
Uh yeah, that place is incredible too.
00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:54.399
And she's an incredible pastry chef there as well.
00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:56.159
Incredible pastry chef.
00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:05.039
And and the food, I mean, it so much of it went right over my head because I'm just not familiar with the ingredients that they name.
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:08.240
But to be able to appreciate such a talent.
00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:09.120
I agree.
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:14.399
Uh, and this is in DC, where years ago I think it was really a food desert.
00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:17.519
There's so many good restaurants in DC now.
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:18.879
Yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.240
It's such an exciting city.
00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:25.679
Doc, can you tell us about something that was maybe not fantastic or an awful experience that you've had recently?
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:27.919
Yeah, probably one of my restaurants.
00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.200
And that's where I really am the most critical.
00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:31.519
Yeah.
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.799
And um ultimately the most disappointed.
00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.399
You know, when I know how a dish is supposed to be.
00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:39.279
Exactly what you mean.
00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:58.480
And then it comes and it's I have to take a few deep breaths, and I uh have to, I know that I have to be uh polite, kind-ish in my uh criticism of the dish, but that's where it really hurts, you know?
00:10:58.559 --> 00:10:58.799
Yeah.
00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.200
And that's where I just get that angst.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:02.480
How did you react after that?
00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.799
What was your what were the next steps after that happened?
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:10.960
Firstly, I walk away, and then I come back and I try to walk through the dish again.
00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:15.519
So what it was was that the pizzeria, we have a few entrees, not a lot, but a few entrees.
00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.320
One of my favorite, look, I'm gonna knock this over again with my hands.
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.519
I'm getting all excited, is a fish dish, right?
00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:26.240
And it's a baked fish dish because we try to use our wood-burning oven as much as possible.
00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:35.039
So it's a sea bass that is going on top of a tomato bell pepper kind of sauce, but the sauce has to be prepared ahead of time.
00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:38.000
So it's cooked in such a way that it's kind of jammy.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:43.919
And then when it goes in the oven and it bakes for a very short amount of time because the filet is thin, you know.
00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:51.279
Um, but the sauce reduces, gets a little kissed by the flame, so it gets charred in a few places.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.600
Um, and what came out was something very watery.
00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:08.080
And what upsets me about it is that the food that we do at all of our restaurants, in a sense, is so um simple that it's all about kind of the the technique and the finesse.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:09.919
Well, absolutely the ingredients.
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:22.159
But it turns it's so it's the same ingredients, so in theory it will taste the same, but because it wasn't properly executed, it's a completely different dish.
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.559
And so I could eat that at another restaurant and just say, like, well, I didn't care for that.
00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.039
Because there was nothing bad about it, that's the whole thing.
00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:30.879
Yeah, it's just that it wasn't right.
00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:31.360
Yeah.
00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:39.200
And um, and that's when I, you know, t get upset, is like when I when it's gone through so many channels.
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:46.720
It's gone through the person making it, it's gone to the chef that's sending it out, and it's gone gone through the server.
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:54.080
Yeah, and you've already got all those levels and all those eyes and ears, you know, and the levels that are supposed to exist, yeah, and they all failed.
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:54.559
Yeah.
00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:00.399
So when you do have to talk to, you know, staff about things that are areas of improvement, right?
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:01.679
What does that look like?
00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.519
Well, I think you got to start with the bottom, the person that made the sauce.
00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.480
So you need to ask, do you remember how to make it?
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:10.320
And then we relook at the recipe.
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:17.919
Don't forget this has to be cooked down, that's when you add this, you know, and go through the steps and make sure they're being executed.
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:27.679
And then go to the chef that is actually putting that fish on it in the oven to remind them to recognize when it's not the way it's supposed to be.
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.480
Right?
00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:36.080
And then finally, the server saying, Do you remember when we first did this dish, what it looked like, and it doesn't look like that anymore.
00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:40.000
Don't be afraid to say something to the chef and say, Is this right?
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:48.960
But the the great thing about mistakes and the great thing about getting a bad review is that you learn from them.
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.120
So that's what mistakes are for.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:51.759
Absolutely.
00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:56.480
I feel like those times that things go wrong teach you more about yourself than the things that go right.
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:57.200
Yep.
00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:59.120
All right, Nancy, ready for drink number three?
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:00.080
Sure am.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:06.639
This is our third and final martini.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.159
This drink is based on pear.
00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:09.679
This is Castra Elion.
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:11.279
I made a pear amazake.
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.440
So I let the pears sit and I took parsnips and made a parsnip amazake.
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:28.080
So what happens with parsnip is after it uh gets uh mixed with koji and it sits for uh several hours under heat, flavor profiles change, and you get all these vanillins and you get all these really interesting flavors from the parsnip.
00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:29.440
How did you know that, by the way?
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:30.720
I'm just in your cooking?
00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:40.559
So in my cooking, so I cook a tremendous amount, and through my cooking, I had heard about the enzymatic properties of amazake, which was I thought was amazing to me.
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:52.559
I also make a lot of ice cream and I got into like amazake ice cream, which I think is another really cool way to make ice cream, just because the flavor profiles are interesting and the texture is really great, which I'm a huge fan of texture in ice cream.
00:14:52.799 --> 00:15:01.600
And um, through that, I took the flavor of pear and amazake coming from parsnip when that when it changes flavors and you get these really beautiful vanillins.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.440
So I thought it would be fun to combine those.
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.519
And then to make it Italian, there's Miley de Corbezzello, which is a bitter honey.
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:09.840
And there's a littlezzolo, yeah.
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.960
Is my favorite honey.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:11.679
Oh, it is.
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.320
And I have a couple of trees in Italy, and nobody but you know what it is.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:17.039
Wow.
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:20.000
And uh it's the most expensive honey you can buy.
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:20.559
Yes.
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.879
And uh I'm not, I think it's the bees that pollinate the trees.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.039
There's something about how rare it is, but I know that at my house I have bushes.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.879
And I want to know how you found it, how you found the honey.
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.840
Uh so I found the honey one Jonathan Gold's favorite honey as well.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:39.759
We shared an affinity for that honey.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.720
I did, I actually did know that as well.
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.679
Um, and huge fan of Jonathan Gold, miss him every day.
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:46.799
He was such an amazing guy.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:51.519
I got to use it for the first time at Soto with Steve Sampson and Zach Pollock.
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:52.159
There you go.
00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.480
Okay, so another knowledgeable person.
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:54.720
Yeah.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:57.919
And I uh and I just would never not use it after you've tasted it.
00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.480
So I just wanted to include something like that in a in a cocktail.
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.080
Is this a new cocktail for you or no?
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.799
I made this for you.
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:04.000
So if I never made it before.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.240
Yeah.
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:11.440
When I look at something like a drink or a plate or a bowl, I always think, now, could I wear that?
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.039
I can wear that.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:14.240
Cheers.
00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:15.360
This is wearable.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:15.919
Cheers.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:16.559
Cheers.
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:17.840
Enjoy.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:24.080
Wow.
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.360
And not in a sweet way.
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:31.840
Yes.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:32.879
Want to keep it dry.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.399
Because it's an overwhelming, it's a powerful flavor, that honey.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:36.960
Yeah.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.279
So I want to talk a little bit about the new project that you're working on right now.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.360
You're gonna be opening up in the Palisades.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.600
Yes.
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.320
And I know they've been through so much recently.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:50.960
Can you talk a little bit about what that's like and that experience that you're getting into?
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.120
Yeah, you know, I really never had been to that Palisades village before.
00:16:55.440 --> 00:17:00.720
But I know that people that live there, they loved it because they didn't have to travel.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:12.000
But in order to get the people back, every single uh location was stripped down to the studs so that there was no carcinogenics and things like that.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.400
So this is a huge project, and everybody's gonna open at the same time.
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:25.119
Now, had Rick Caruso asked me to open a restaurant in the Palisades village pre-fire, I would have said no.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.359
I would have said most likely that I don't need another restaurant in Los Angeles.
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:34.559
I don't want to make that, you know, commute, and I it's just not the right opportunity for me.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:45.119
But given the circumstances, um it really didn't even take a second thought to say, yes, I want to be a part of this rebuilding.
00:17:45.359 --> 00:18:05.359
And what has given me a lot of uh joy is the amount of people that I have run into that lost their homes in the Palisades that said, now I don't know if it's true or not, but they said, you opening a restaurant there has been the deciding element that have gotten us to rebuild.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.880
So that makes me feel really good.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.079
But that's really why I'm there.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:15.440
I'm ready, I'm there because of being a part of this rebuilding in a devastating area.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:22.640
And obviously the same would have happened if someone from Altadina had said, we are redoing this area, can we put a restaurant in?
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.200
I mean, it would have been the same response.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.519
Um, but it's gonna be, we're borrowing part of the name of Spaca.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.640
It's gonna be spaca tuto, which is spaca let's go.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.079
Um, but I'm not sure how much of the menu of spaca.
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:47.920
It's just gonna be a small part of spaca, and then more so of a kind of Italian-y, Spanish-y, steakhousey kind of a restaurant.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.400
Any any dishes there there that you're excited about?
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:51.680
Anything that you're gonna do a little differently?
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:58.160
I'm sort of obsessed with the way the grill is used in Spain, even more so than here or in the U.S.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:18:59.839
And you use like a are you using a Josper?
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:00.480
Or are you using a?
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.799
There will be a Jasper and there'll probably be a str a regular grill as well.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:11.200
Because this Jasper really gets a lot of smoke in there if you and if you don't want it in some of the more delicate things up.
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.880
So I think there'll be hopefully the kitchen will be big enough that they'll be both options.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:16.559
That's cool.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:17.039
That's cool.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.400
I love a good Jasper of it.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.640
Yeah.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.920
So with all the devastation there um in the Palestades, what is it like trying to find?
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.000
Is it harder to find staff and people that are able to work there?
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.359
What's that process like?
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.960
You know, look at the rebuilding is slow.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:38.000
Um, and I know that, certainly Rick definitely knows that.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:46.720
And there's gonna be challenges in getting people there at the beginning because there won't be that finished neighborhood.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.200
Right?
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.000
So that's good.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.200
So our expectations are realistic.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:20:06.640
So we know we're not gonna be, you know, seven days a week align out the door like Max and Helen's, which is, you know, a smaller, a smaller restaurant in a uh a more affordable area.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.759
After you've opened so many restaurants now, how do you uh identify the right people for your team?
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:25.039
I look for people because the kind of kitchens and the front of the house that I look for are people that want to um contribute, not people that want to clock in.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:39.359
Um and so I look for that for both front of the house and back of the house, people that I feel like I can work with, and uh people that are coming to me for all the right reasons.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:45.519
When you're looking at a food program and a beverage program, how do you see them kind of interacting with each other?
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:49.440
And how do you look at that as an operator of your restaurants?
00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:57.359
You know, I think that there's so many components uh involved in making a great restaurant, right?
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:06.319
And uh with it with each addition, it only makes it better, and it's just staying contemporary.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:18.799
And um people like you that have that added a cocktail component to a restaurant, sort of up the bar.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.359
All of a sudden, Rivera had a cocktail program.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.480
Yeah, that's where I'm gonna go eat.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:35.599
And so all of a sudden, it made everybody relook at their cocktail programs and say, well, look at that's my competition.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.000
We need to up our ante.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.720
Just like great services, a great wine list.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:51.119
If I could predict what the next layer of fine dining w was, I would be at the top of my game.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:51.759
But I don't know.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:58.160
But there's gonna be something that re that not replaces the cocktail, yeah, but adds to it.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:58.640
You know?
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.200
Yeah.
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:15.119
At one point there was a restaurant that kind of got ridiculed for it in New York that I think it was New York or maybe it was France, I think New York, where they presented a pen program, not a pen program, but the choice of pens to sign your bill.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:15.519
Oh, yes.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.960
And it came out to the table and there was 10 pens and you could pick, right?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.200
Yeah.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.359
Um, and this is of the that they got poo-pooed by the critics.
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:31.440
But anyway, it's like those added uh benefits or uh an added layer to a great restaurant.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:39.519
So if you were asking me if a cocktail program is important in a restaurant, I would say absolutely.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:40.480
Yeah.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.200
Well, thank you so much for being with us on the show.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:45.440
It was so wonderful to catch up with you.
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:46.480
Absolutely.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.440
Thank you so much.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.400
Huge thanks to Nancy Silverton for joining us today.
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:54.480
It's proof that greatness is built on instinct, discipline, and just the right amount of obsession.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:58.880
I'm Julian Cox, and this conversation was made even better by Costra Elian vodka.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.039
Crafted to be savored, whether at the table, behind the bar, or deep in conversation.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:09.839
If you enjoyed this episode, like, subscribe, and share it with someone who appreciates great food, great drinks, and stories behind them.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.400
Until next time, keep your martinis cold.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.559
Your lunch is long, and your standards high.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.039
This has been Three Martini Lunch.
