Stop Performing, Start Selling Your Way | Lisa Yelland

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I think the key to connect the performance, which really for me is actually, have you got the confidence?
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Are you certain?
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Do you have some kind of structure?
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Can you lead the conversation?
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Are you able to be really present in the moment so that you can listen out, so that you can then diagnose, okay, this is a problem, this is what I know I can help with.
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I can see the gap.
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And can I explain how I'm going to help get that person from where they're stuck to where they want to be in a way that's going to really resonate with them?
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Three founders walk into her.
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I'm Helen Wingrove Sanders from Halfback.
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That's hiring for and building awesome companies.
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I'm one founder.
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I'm Emma Campbell from the Sea Point.
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I'm the other.
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And together we're the two.
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And every week, one of us invites a founder the other one's never met, in theory.
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Actually, in practicality, that's not going to be the case today, because you have met this person for about two hours.
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So you don't know them well.
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So they're the one, three founders, two hosts, one guest, and none of us knows where we're going.
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That's the fundamental part of today's conversation.
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Our guest doesn't just join the conversation, they choose where we've walked into.
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Three founders walk into a dot dot dot.
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It works really nicely as a format.
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So we've had a bar in Venice Beach in LA.
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We've had a pier in Essex, South End on Sea.
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We've been up a mountain around a campfire, a lovely cup of tea.
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We've been in a sauna on a beach.
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We've been not Hampstead.
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What was the hill in London that we've been up?
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Greenwich.
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We've been in lots of different places.
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So who knows where we're going to end up today?
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We've got three questions, and the rest, that's just whatever happens when three founders sit down and get honest.
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And this week, as we always say, I've invited someone that I think you'll really like.
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So let me tell you about them.
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Today we're joined by Lisa Yelland.
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So that name will ring a bell for you, and it will ring a bell for people in Bristol who've been along to the catalyst her events that are backed by the BIPC in Bristol.
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We've relaunched that event this year and our first relaunched event, you were one of our panelists.
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What?
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Didn't have much time to spend with Lisa.
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And we had loads of brilliant women there, you know, pre-founding their own business, founders, as well as people who have exited and started a new business.
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So that's really cool.
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I didn't know Lisa very well before then.
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I knew her in the Bristol scene in terms of entrepreneurs and founders, but didn't know her all that well.
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She's a sales consultant and she's a trainer with a lot, you know, decades in the business, essentially.
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She cut her teeth in a call centre at 20 and she loved it.
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I can't say that for everyone who's worked.
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Exactly.
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She has she then went on to become the top salesperson in Europe in her corporate role.
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And over the last few years, she has personally closed over 1.7 million in high-ticket sales for some of the biggest names in online coaching.
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So that is no mean feat.
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What I love about her is that I don't know about you, but sales can feel a bit icky at times.
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It can feel a bit performative.
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Yes.
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And what she does is she coaches and helps people learn how to founders essentially learn how to do sales without feeling that performative ickiness.
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She's not sleazy.
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She's not a wide boy, as it were, if you use language from years ago.
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Shall I go and get her?
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She's walked in.
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Yes.
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Here she is now.
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So I have broken, I have broken our little promise to ourselves that you two won't know each other.
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But I don't think we do know each other that well.
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You just spent a few hours together at Catalyst Health.
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Yeah, I wouldn't say we know each other.
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We we have met once.
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Shared space.
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There you go.
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There you go.
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So Lisa meet Emma.
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Emma meet Lisa.
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We are three founders, and we've walked into a dot dot dot.
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Lisa, where are we?
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We are in a beautiful castle.
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Yeah.
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This one is super, super old, as all real, excellent castles are.
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So it's intact.
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It's not a ruin, but it's it could do with a little work, but that just adds to the ambiance.
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And picture, if you will.
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It could be my favourite castle, which is Warwick.
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I don't know if you've been there, Warwick Castle.
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Yeah.
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Okay, great.
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What about you, Emma?
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Have you been there?
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Both?
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You've both been.
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Have you been?
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Okay.
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So we could sit with Warwick, but we could also go with Barclay.
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Barclay's another favourite of mine.
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I know Barclay Castle very well.
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Yes, featured on many, many TV shows.
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And even closer to home is Farley Hungerford.
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I feel a special connection with that as well.
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So imagine an amazing Warwick Castle, Barclay Castle or Farley.
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And are we there alone?
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Is it just the three of us?
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It's a three of us to go.
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It's the three of us there, and we are just walking into the Great Hall as often as you walk through the corridor, and there is the amazing Great Hall, a beautiful, expansive space, there's a big table, there's a roaring fire, and we are just there soaking up all of that amazing energy and tuning into the frequency of the people that have gone before.
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Oh, I can't believe it.
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So is that the history side that you really like?
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Is it the atmosphere?
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What is it about a castle that and and this castle that we're in specifically?
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So you're saying it could be anyone that we like, but is it an imaginative one in your head?
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I mean, obviously you're kind of painted a picture for us, but do you is this a specific one in your head?
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It for me it is specific.
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I love Warwick.
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There's a real special connection for me.
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I think I've just had so many lovely days out there.
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But whenever I go into any castle, I have the same feeling: this feeling of connection, this feeling of nostalgia, this feeling of coming home.
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And for me, what I love, I mean, I'm a history buff.
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I love everything about history.
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Okay.
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I I love it.
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I I really geek out on all of this kind of stuff.
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But for me, the most interesting part is the buildings, but the connection to the people that were in the buildings.
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So I love to imagine the conversations that they've had and the decisions they had to make, and the power struggles, and the fears, and the dreams, and the hopes, and just the daily minutiae of what goes on that's not actually so different from what we are dealing with daily in 2026.
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And you taking us there and describing all of that, and then saying about the connection to people that have come before, in those walls of a castle, you feel that, don't you?
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You actually can feel the history as opposed to walking into someone's home.
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You might be able to feel energy, positive, negative, or anywhere in between.
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But in a castle, there is something within those walls that just yeah, yeah.
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There's a vibe.
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There's like a whisper thing, isn't there?
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It kind of feels like there's something going on.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that yeah, there is.
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And I went to a really interesting talk once by a guy's name was Richard, I forget his surname, but he was doing a talk about bricks and how actually bricks and stone can record conversations.
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They record a frequency.
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And so it actually does the stone, certain types of stone, do emit something.
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So, yes, there's an energy thing, of course, and obviously with all of the old things in there, and often there's artifacts, and there's a lovely person telling you stories about the people and and the things that are in the room.
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But I find that really fascinating, actually, and that was about Barclay Castle, that's where he did that talk.
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But he he spoke about the brick and the stone and and actually what can be emitted from that, and you can measure it and everything.
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Ow.
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Yeah.
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I'd never thought about the actual building itself holding the energy.
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Of course it would.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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And I think have you been have you been to Barclay Castle, Helen?
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I haven't.
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I know it's on the outskirts, it's South Gloucestershire, right?
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Yeah.
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So I worked there for a while.
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No.
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MR.
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My God.
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That was amazing.
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So they had the gates redone as well.
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I know the guy who made the big wooden gates, like I know the guy who made those.
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So some yeah, it's a it is a really neat place.
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So I work for I sometimes work for or with a caterer and they do a lot of weddings and stuff.
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And um yeah, so I was there for I was there for a little bit.
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It's so bizarre walking in to a castle on your kind of daily just going to work.
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That would be my absolute dream.
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That would be my absolute dream.
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How fascinating.
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Oh my gosh, I can't believe that.
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I mean, we were considering get getting married there for various reasons we didn't, but can you imagine?
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I think they hold banquets and stuff.
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Maybe it could be special.
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And the weddings are beautiful, like they're so grand, and they've got like I was there was um I was listening to a bride yesterday, in fact, because I'm yeah, anyway.
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And they were talking about having a choir in the minstrels gallery in the in the main hall.
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Wow.
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So yeah, it's all that stuff.
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But I mean, and it's so it's so kind of evocative, isn't it?
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Of that kind of whimsical but beautiful, and it's just a really it's and the the sound and the acoustics and all that stuff, it's a really, it's a really neat spot.
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It's a really cool one.
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So that's interesting that you've picked that.
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That's really weird as the that connection.
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That's so strange.
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Do you know the other thing I think about with castles as well is if I came to you now and I was a multimillionaire and I said, okay, I'm gonna build a castle, you would think I was completely bonkers.
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Yeah.
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You know, you think think about architects now.
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I wouldn't.
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I'd be like, You wouldn't, you'd love it.
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You'd be like, sign me up.
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But I think if you look at modern architecture and technology of buildings now, they're not building castles.
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No.
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Do you not is which is kind of we are building a version of castles, obviously.
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But yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?
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That back then you'd think that was the hardest thing to do, because they're not bricks and they're not house bricks, are they, this big that you can just pick up in a hand.
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These are yeah, big hewn things.
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So uh uh another thing is so I've got a friend in South Africa and they built themselves a castle.
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Stop it.
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They've got this piece of postcards, and they've built this bit of land and they've built this castle.
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And you know, when you're kind of looking at him, you're like, Really?
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Are you really built?
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Yes, he's absolutely built a castle and he's like put a dragon on the top of the castle.
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Like he's got this kind of piece of art that's like a dragon that's on the roof.
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I'll I'll fish out some photos.
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Yeah, but I would love to see that.
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And people do build castles, it's not completely.
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I wonder what his motivator was behind that, whether has he got a love of castles or architecture.
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Yeah, he's he's actually a lawyer, um, but he always wanted to be an architect and never in but kind of went into law instead.
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So he built the house that he was living in and then built was building this kind of castle as a bit of a um yeah, like a family legacy, I guess.
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But like beautiful.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I suppose that's the thing.
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That is what that is what castle is, isn't it?
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It's a legacy, it's thinking of something.
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So in your kind of love of history, does that cross over into what you do?
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Or do you is what you do completely different?
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Does it cross over?
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Well, I there's gonna be some themes, absolutely.
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There will be some common threads, and I have been racking my brains over the years to see if there is something a bit more obvious that maybe I could do with history and sales.
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I mean, I I don't quite know what the link is.
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It's not immediately obvious to me, but I think I think where the commonality is is around the people and the conversations and my natural curiosity around that and understanding people's drivers and their motivators and why they did the things that they did, you know, because history, I guess, is written and written and rewritten over and over again, and it changes.
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So our view of a point in time now is actually going to change.
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I know, maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe in 10 years' time, because we're always discovering something new from somebody else's perspective.
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And I think from a people point of view, that for me is the commonal commonality there, I guess.
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People are very interesting.
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You meet them at a certain point in time, depending on where they're at, their perception, their perspective on something, that's going to affect how they receive the information, how open they are to exploring a different pathway or change.
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And then do they have the courage to take action on that?
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So I think maybe my view of history through the eyes of somebody that is just really naturally curious about people is the theme when it comes to sales.
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And actually, in my intro with Emma, we both I said something about, you know, sales can feel a bit, or even sales training can feel a bit icky.
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What's the word, Helen?
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So Emma said performative.
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You know, sales can be performative, can't it?
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And yet, as founders, we all have to get our shit together and do sales.
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Yeah.
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Fundamentally, yeah.
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You know, most founders have to build, deliver, and sell the damn thing.
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Otherwise, you don't have a business, you just have a very expensive hobby.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So how do you because your your natural curiosity of history, and I'm trying to link it to that, because how you came alive describing where we are in this castle and what we're feeling and who we're there with and the banquet and all this and the fire, that to me, you were selling it to me without selling it to me.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I I think it's gonna depend how you interpret the word performance.
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So often I think when people think about performing, they they feel like they have to step into a different version of themselves or become somebody that they're not.
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And then there's a disconnect actually between how they're showing up and what they're really feeling inside.
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And I think that can feel very performative, and that can create an invisible barrier between you and the person that you're speaking to.
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So I think the key to connect the performance, which really for me is actually have you got the confidence?
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Are you certain?
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Do you have some kind of structure?
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Can you lead the conversation?
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Are you able to be really present in the moment so that you can listen out, so that you can then diagnose, okay, this is a problem, this is what I know I can help with, I can see the gap.
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And can I explain how I'm gonna help get that person from where they're stuck to where they want to be in a way that's gonna really resonate with them?
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So then the performance piece is really more about for me, can you get clear on that?
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:28.639
Can you approach it with that presence, with that clean energy where you're not looking to get something you're actually looking to serve?
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.440
And you can do it in a way that does feel aligned with you.
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:44.799
So it actually isn't about being a different version or becoming somebody that you're not being salesy as such, but it is about upskilling in those areas of confidence and communication, but also connecting with that passion.
00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:53.360
You know, like you said, I'm selling you that that image and that picture of a castle, like we all want to move into a castle, let's go and visit a castle right now, because I'm connected to that.
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.360
That's coming from a genuine place.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.120
And for me, that that's where sales is so easy and natural.
00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:11.440
When you're connected to, I really want to help actually, and I have got a solution for you, and you you've got the confidence to make an invitation, knowing that the other person has full autonomy in saying yes or no.
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.000
I I think that's a difference for me, and then performance then means something different.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:16.480
Yes.
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:16.879
Yeah.
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.039
It's almost infectious, isn't it?
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:29.919
Like that because the selling part, like it's it's not less about the decision, it's more about infecting somebody with the excitement, enthusiasm that you have for what you're doing.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.240
Yeah.
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.320
And knowing that that can help that person.
00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:32.720
Yeah.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:33.120
Yeah.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:50.960
For me, I think sales in its truest sense is the highest form of service because what you're really opening somebody up to is the possibility of change and then supporting them in being able to take that bold action in stepping into that alternative pathway.
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.240
And that's what you're really engaging somebody in.
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:59.360
So it's the enthusiasm and the connection to that, but also that certainty that you can really help.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:10.240
Because I think what can happen sometimes in some selling situations is there's a lot of smoke and mirrors, there's a lot of performance, which then may not translate into the actual goods.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:18.080
So the energy has to be there, the connection and that certainty, but also that confidence that you're going to be able to deliver on what you say.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.519
So yeah, it's it's about enrolling somebody in that possibility that things could be different.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:28.320
And here's the invitation if if you choose to walk this path with me.
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:45.120
And then if you are confident in your ability to have those types of conversations where you go into that conversation knowing what was the you use the word, you're enrolling people into that invitation to say yes or no.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:45.360
Yeah.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:50.559
If they say no, they are self-selecting based on you being your true self.
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:50.879
Yeah.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.879
And if they say yes, they are in.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:53.440
Yeah.
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.120
Absolutely nice.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:56.159
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.879
And you're you're so much less likely then to get false yeses.
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:12.880
And also that this is where performance really applies to sales conversations, actually, because in what I do in my business, um, I do a lot of closing for other companies.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.440
So I will be the person that will take a proper sales call, if you like.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:22.960
And what I found early on in me doing this is a new skill, and it is a skill.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:40.799
And I think as business owners, we're just naturally expected to be able to lead a conversation and to be able to explain what we do really clearly and to say it with confidence and certainty and be able to do the mental agility that's needed in the moment when somebody is not actually following a framework of a conversation, the way that you've laid it out.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:56.319
Um, anyway, early on when I started doing this for other companies, I did notice a trend that people would say yes and they would be engaged and they did want the thing, and they would say yes, but then you wouldn't hear anything after, and there would be no action, there would be ghosting.
00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:58.400
I'm sure we're all familiar with that term.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:05.119
And what I realized is that there was some performance going on, not by me, but by the other person, because they wanted to please me.
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.359
They wanted to agree with what I was saying.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:08.000
Yeah.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:15.279
What I then learned and understood is that I wasn't going deep enough into the reality of what's really going on for them.
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.640
Because often what somebody says is not necessarily the truth.
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:24.960
And you can only get to that point if you are really present in the moment, that you are not focusing on what you can get out of it.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.240
Am I going to make a sale or not?
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:27.519
Do I need the sale or not?
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:50.000
So that you can notice those nuances, that body language, the hesitation, the leaning back, or the whatever it might be, you can only do that and then ask the next question to uncover what's really going on, so that you can avoid that performance by that lovely person on the other side of the phone or Zoom, because they just want to say the right thing and they want to want this, but something is stopping them.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:55.359
And often it's fear, fear it's not going to work, or fear that they can't actually do it and it's not going to work for them.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:02.559
But if you don't uncover that in the conversation, you're not serving that person to the highest level because they're not going to come away clear.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:03.440
And that's what we want.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.880
We want that clarity for them, yes or a no, feel really empowered in that.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:08.319
I love that thing with this down.
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.119
Hang on a minute.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:10.880
Enrolling, serving them.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:16.720
I really, these are all terms I've done as a recruiter with how to sell people.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:17.599
Yeah.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:19.039
Dodgies, anything.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:26.160
But I've never heard anyone with your background talk about enrolling and serving in this way related to sales.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:29.680
So keep talking, mainly because it's pre-training for us.
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:30.319
So thank you.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.519
But also there'll be someone listening that has not heard that language either.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:39.599
So this will start resonating with them and then help them serve the people that they need to serve as well, which is awesome.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:41.359
Go on, Em, you were going to ask something.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.400
No, I and very much in the same kind of vein, like enrolling somebody in the sales as an invitation to take that journey with you.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:20:02.640
So it's not like that's you know, it's an invitation, and you you know, whether people you know kind of take you up on that and walk alongside you is one thing, which I which I really like the idea of because it's not forced, it's an invitation.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.480
It's consensual, it's like this is this is how we're moving forward.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:14.000
I think the other people is that the the other thing that you you said the about the the person that you're speaking to wanting to please you.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.559
Really, and I know that that happened.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:16.880
Yeah.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:40.880
I've had had a really funny conversation with a friend of mine in a supermarket, or not a supermarket, like a department store, and it got completely fleeced into buying this incredibly expensive skincare product because they really liked the person who was selling it and didn't want them to think that they were gonna say no because they couldn't afford it, so they just kept on going and ended up with like hundreds of pounds worth of skincare.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:48.400
And you know, it was good, but it probably wasn't something they, you know, should have gone ahead with for whatever reason.
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.680
But how many people put into that situation into that people pleasing?
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:53.440
Like, I am so easy to be sold to.
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:55.359
I love honesty sold to.
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:56.160
I love it.
00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.440
Do you get report though?
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:04.799
Because like if that you could have been describing you and me in a department store, me buying the expensive skincare.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.039
I'd be like, oh my god, they're doing such a great job.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:15.200
And especially if they're women as well, and they're selling at me and to me and with me, inviting me to go on a journey with them for my yes, please.
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:15.759
Yeah.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:23.039
But then the connection to the product afterwards, knowing that I've just spent however you said hundreds of pounds worth, would I actually get the benefit?
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:27.279
Because then I'd have buyers' remorse, I'd have to use it because I'd bought it.
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:31.119
Would it work as well if I've got that remorse linked to that product?
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.160
Probably not.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:40.880
I'd probably get frown lines from the banks that I'd have about spending that amount of money because I wouldn't want to not please the person that's doing the selling.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:46.799
So yeah, but interestingly, so you you put your hand up as well when you know you you like being sold to.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:47.920
So tell me about that.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:56.079
I love being sold to, and in fact, it annoys me when I'm not, because I want to be made to feel special.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:59.759
I want somebody to ask me questions about what my needs are, I want to feel what.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.680
Like the solution that they are offering me is right for me.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.319
And if I don't get that adventure, I mean, not for everything.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:16.720
Like if I go into the post office and I want some stamps, I am not bothered if the assistant is not trying to, you know, go from second class to first class or sell me, you know, a bigger book of stamps or something.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:28.559
But if if I'm going into a store with the intention of actually I'm open to browsing and I might be open to buying some skincare or whatever else, I want some effort being put in by the person.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.079
Otherwise, I might as well just order it online from wherever.
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:39.200
If if I'm going into a store, if I'm engaging with a person or there's people there that I can speak to, I want to be approached.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:46.480
That's not to say I want somebody breathing down my neck, but I do want that attention because I want to know that what I'm buying is right for me.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:59.279
And just on the buyer's remorse thing, I think it's quite interesting because firstly, I am in full belief that that lovely lady that was selling the skincare is 100% certain that what you have bought is going to be amazing.
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:02.799
And you do have the option of returning it as long as you haven't opened it.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:08.319
So you could always do that if you felt like you were just carried away in the moment.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.799
Most people probably wouldn't take it back.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:12.400
I mean, I wouldn't, I would just use it.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:25.680
In terms of just want to make a point actually, just about who loves being sold to and who doesn't, what's a really good question to ask yourself around selling, just to see if there's any resistance coming up or really how you feel, is how do you like to be sold to?
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.519
How do you like to buy?
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.480
Because often the way that we like to buy is the way then that we sell.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:47.039
And that's great if you found a way that works for you, but you are also in doing that potentially leaving quite a lot of potential on the table from an analogy perspective, because people do make decisions in different ways.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:53.599
People sometimes like to, yeah, get caught up in the excitement and they make a decision and you're like, just I'm just gonna go for it.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.880
Other people are more reflective and they want to sleep on it.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:07.920
Some other people prefer to talk to every, you know, person that they possibly know, including the cat and the milkman and the postman and all of that, to help with that reassurance in terms of that decision.
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.759
So I think that's something we need to be aware of.
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:14.799
And I think for anyone that feels resistant to being sold to, it's quite a fun exercise, actually.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.440
And I do say this to my clients to encourage them to do this.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.279
Like going and practice being sold to.
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:25.759
You don't have to buy anything, but just experience what it's like when somebody is trying to engage you in a conversation.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.839
Because really that's what we're talking about here.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:34.079
How comfortable are we in engaging, going first with the conversation and then being able to lead it?
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:45.039
Not necessarily to get something out of it, because detachment from the outcome is really key and it's really important, but to be open to a conversation, knowing that you can say no.
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:54.240
And you know, I herein lies the point, I feel the performance piece and not wanting to say no is the real thing for many people.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:02.000
And they don't want to say no, and so therefore, that can stop them from being open to having a conversation about making a change.
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:18.079
And so, my role on a sales call, if I'm having a sales conversation with somebody, is to create that safety for them to feel relaxed enough so that we can have an honest conversation and create the opportunity for them to say no, and it's okay.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.880
Like I'm gonna be okay, whatever you decide.
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.119
Like it's not gonna affect me at all.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.039
From a personal perspective, money, my value, nothing.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.359
It's gonna have no impact on me on whatever.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:34.319
I am only focused on your decision, getting clarity on that yes or a no.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:39.920
So that's that's the key bit is that creating that safety for that person because for so many people, they're like, I don't want to say no.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.400
I don't want to say, but also I don't know if I want to say yes.
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:42.880
Yeah.
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:45.279
This is like relationship ideas.
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.279
It is, yeah, it is.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.279
You can say no.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.599
You don't have to buy the skincare.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:02.480
And to be in a safe enough place to say no is because it I mean, I imagine that almost creates the thing where actually you really want to say yes because you can say no.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.319
Is that when you feel you can, yeah.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.519
So then absolutely it's a yes, which is a weird country.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:13.759
Yeah, it helps create that clean energy between the two when you're having a conversation, that's okay.
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.599
And you talked about clean energy earlier about the castle as well.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:18.720
Oh yeah.
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:29.839
So clean, and I've not so my definition of not that I use the phrase clean energy, although I might do this, my definition of clean energy is solar panels on a roof, right?
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.000
That's more green.
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:33.519
I've never thought about it.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:43.279
You know, and I'm in the people business, and I do talk about energy and vibrations and cells, and we do vibrate differently around different people and different food and different smells and all that sort of thing.
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:51.279
Talk to me about clean energy in in the environment of selling, because that's a really interesting piece that I'd love to dig into.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:56.480
It is interesting, and I I think is one probably the most important piece, I think, in selling.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:01.920
So by clean energy, I mean, from my perspective, is that I am detached from the outcome.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:03.920
So we've spoken about that a couple of times.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.720
Whether you say yes or no, I'm okay.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.319
It's not gonna affect me.
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.559
I'm not gonna be emotionally triggered by anything that you say or do on this call.
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.799
I mean, I don't say that, but that this is my approach to the conversation.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.000
I'm not going to be triggered.
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:25.920
Now, when I work with my clients, when I'm speaking to other people, other business owners, and and you know, we we break down a sales call because I love doing this kind of thing.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:38.640
There is, if they've lost the sale or the person's ghosted or whatever's happened, something unexpected, they thought the conversation was going really well, and then suddenly, you know, it it just tailed off and never to be seen again.
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.079
When we go through and we review it, there's there's always a moment.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:53.119
And there's a moment when, and sometimes there's several, where the person leading, the business owner, their energy, their emotion has allowed to influence the person in some way.
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:57.279
And often it's not necessarily by what you say, people feel it.
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:00.720
And so it is a skill to practice this presence.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:07.519
So, really, I guess what I'm talking about is presence, being present in the moment, you're not bringing your stuff in, no judgment.
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:09.200
You know, money is a real trigger.
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:14.240
This is why sales are so emotive, because obviously it's linked to an exchange of money typically, isn't it?
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.759
With a service or a product.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:20.400
Money brings up a lot of things for people, therefore, selling brings up a lot of things for people.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:26.240
And so if you are not working or aware of that stuff, it can just catch you out by surprise.
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.519
And the person that you're speaking to will have a reaction to that.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.880
So cleaning your energy is really important.
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:39.759
So having that presence, even just simple things like really shutting down all of your other notifications so that you're not distracted.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:52.400
I often, if I've got a lot on my mind, and often is the case with, you know, being a mum of two girls and all of this other stuff I've got going on, I'll make a list of things that are on my mind so that I can, you know, physically put it to one side.
00:28:52.559 --> 00:29:08.160
But I also do other things as well, ritualistic things that really help me clean my energy and focus on that person, particularly when I'm doing back-to-back sales calls, which, you know, I could do nine or ten in a day at some points within my sales consultancy.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.119
So if I didn't get really good at doing this, what could happen?
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.359
The risk could be that I could bring energy from the previous call into the next one.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.119
And that is not going to serve anyone.
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.000
So I would do things like washing my hands.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:21.680
You know, water is brilliant, isn't it?
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:25.519
It's a really great way to physically wash your hands.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:32.160
I'm not obsessive about it, but just what I'm doing is I'm washing away any energy that isn't mine and just calling back my energy into me.
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:35.200
So I would always make time to do that in between calls.
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:40.079
And also you mentioned, didn't you, Helen, smells and you know, certain foods and all of those kind of things.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:51.039
So I've often got some oil burning or a nice candle burning or something to create that sense of, you know, I'm present, I'm relaxed, and I'm open to getting really curious about you.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:52.400
And that is my only focus.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.680
And we want to get really clear on where you are now, where you want to get to, have I got a solution for you?
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:04.000
And if I have, can I help you take that bold action in making that happen so that you can make a change?
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.480
Whatever you're selling are buying.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.559
And that's okay because you could say no if you wanted.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.240
I love being telling if you've established this.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:27.200
But honestly, so your your version of clean energy, because it in my world in recruitment, I and I'm gonna change this thanks to you today.
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:32.559
I usually say to candidates going in, you know, you need to have that positive mindset, whatever that is.
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.400
Positive to me is not positive to them necessarily.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.000
What I would do is not the same as them.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.200
So I'm gonna change, I'm gonna switch out the word positive for clean.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.519
Nice, nice clean energy.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:48.640
Yeah, I'm gonna change the mindset as well because that can be a bit go in with that clean energy.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.279
So, like you say, and I do say make sure you go to the bathroom before, turn up, blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:54.559
Yeah, yeah, be ready.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:55.680
Be be ready.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:56.160
Yeah.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.759
But it's that bit, isn't it?
00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:59.359
It's not being so focused.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.480
We're so conditioned at the moment to focus on the goal.
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.759
The goal is what you've got to put your in your head all the time, and that's what you've got to go for.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.880
And yeah, that's true.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:23.680
But if you're so entrenched in that goal, like I need this amount of money in order to cross the end of my month, so I have to sell this product, this service, whatever it is, yeah, that puts a level of desperation, however small, and that's what that's the energy that people feel.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.200
That's the the tension that you're putting in place.
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:42.160
So by removing that tension, giving yourself the time to breathe and relax and take a moment means that you're not as, you know, yes, have a goal, but don't be it's that like you know, strong opinions held lightly.
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.759
Yeah, you know, no, whatever you're holding on to, it can go in a different direction, and that's okay.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:55.119
Because at the end of the day, when you're selling, it's not about you, it's about the customer, it's about your client, about where they're going.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.200
So yeah, I get it.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.240
Yeah, change so so I would offer change the goal.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.720
So the goal for me is get to a decision.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:03.519
That's the goal.
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.640
It's nice, it's not because then because then you've achieved it.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.039
If it's a yes, it's a no, the decision's there.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.079
Maybe is annoying.
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:15.440
But yes or no is it maybe can be, but actually you can get really clear on that as well.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:27.759
So so the maybe it's it's a yes, but not right now, or it's a no, but I'm not gonna be ready for another couple of months, or it's a not quite right for me, but I know somebody actually who it would be brilliant for.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:34.480
And because they've had such a positive experience, they're gonna feel really confident in referring you on or recommending you.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:40.559
You know, I can't tell you the amount of people that have come back to me and said that is the best sales conversation I've ever had, Lisa.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:51.119
Like you completely change the way that I feel about sales, not just in my own business, but me actually engaging in being sold to because I can feel and see the difference.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:59.279
It's is a the maybe that I would say there's more uncovering to be done there because somebody will know, they will know, they'll know.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:04.000
Um, and it's just helping them eke that out so that they can leave that call being really clear.
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:06.000
So the outcome is clarity.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:06.240
Yeah.
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:11.599
Even if it's a maybe, maybe is so clarity in terms of let's have another conversation.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.160
Yeah, let's have a follow-up, let's have a conversation.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:15.440
Yeah, exactly.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:16.000
Exactly.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.160
So yeah, it's just it's just putting some, I guess, some boundaries around that, knowing that that is really serving somebody.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:32.160
Because when somebody is in a sales conversation, they're never more ready than they are in that moment to make a decision that's going to be right for them.
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:33.839
That's my 100% belief.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:41.279
That doesn't mean to say that they may not want to go and reflect or speak to somebody, but they will know in that moment if this feels right for them.
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:46.400
Doesn't mean to say they have to go ahead and sign up and pay thousands of pounds there on the spot, but they will know.
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:53.279
And so for me, like changing the goal around it's not a sale, it's about getting a decision.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:59.920
And also the the maybe bit, it's really drilling that down to okay, well, is it not the right time?
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.079
Are there some things that need to be put in place?
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:08.400
Let's arrange a follow-up conversation so that maybe you do need to go away and do some sums or to move things around.
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:14.480
Maybe I need to go and do some work in the background to see what else that I could do to support you in making this happen.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:22.159
So the maybe we need to put some boundaries around that because it doesn't serve people to have something else in their head.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:29.679
It serves them much better to be clear on yes or no, or it's not quite right for me right now.
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:36.559
So let's put some boundaries around that because it does take up headspace, and us as women in particular have more than enough stuff going on.
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.639
So we don't want that hanging over anybody.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:41.039
That isn't serving, in my humble opinion.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:48.559
Before we come to our final question, I just want to dig in a little bit to 10, 20 years ago or school.
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:55.199
Because what's really interesting 10, 20 years ago, I'm being I'm being gracious, aren't I, to myself as well as to you.
00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:55.840
Yes.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.559
Because here's the thing, it's the stories we tell ourselves.
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:02.400
And in in my world, in my family, I've got an older brother and a younger sister.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:04.639
My older brother is the salesman.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.519
He is in sales, he crushes it.
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.480
He is what you would class as he could sell ice to Eskimos, that kind of salesperson.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:12.960
Yes.
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.320
I'm also in sales.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.039
You are.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.599
But in my family, I'm not seen as a salesperson.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:18.960
He's the salesperson.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:20.239
I'm not.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.920
So that's the story that other people tell about us to themselves.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.800
Growing up, were you that person in your family?
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:27.840
Are you the salesperson?
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.280
Are you seen as that?
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:34.960
Were you, is this just something that you grew up knowing that you were gonna be really good at or not?
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:36.239
Do you do do you know what I mean?
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:41.199
Especially over here in England, I think sales people, you look at real estate people.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.480
Yeah, if I told you that I was in real estate, not real estate, what do we call them?
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:45.119
Estate agents.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.320
Recruiters, car salespeople, right?
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:49.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.400
They're just they're just selling for the sake of selling, they're just worried about their own bank balance.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.000
In America, real estate, especially high-end real estate, you earn a fortune and you're respected.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.280
Recruiters, there's less recruiters in the states than there are in the whole of the UK.
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:05.840
Wow.
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:11.119
And they're respected and they're paid a lot more, their fees are double what we can charge in the UK.
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:12.239
And what was the other ones?
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:13.440
Car salespeople.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:16.239
They're probably still salespeople.
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:18.000
Unless it's high end, right?
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:19.440
And then it's all consultative.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.920
So going back to where was I going with that?
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:22.480
Oh, you.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:36.639
So going back to family dynamics and your personality, because I can't see you doing anything other than sales, especially now you've shown us a lot more about you know, given us that peek behind the curtain.
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:36.960
Yeah.
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.440
So were you that person younger?
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:40.000
Yeah.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:40.719
You were.
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:41.440
Okay.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:42.480
That's the answer.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:42.880
Yes.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:45.039
That was the longest question to get to a yes.
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:45.679
Okay.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:50.960
So I guess for me, I I've always been in sales.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:57.119
So, like many of us, I'm sure, had a Saturday job in a shop, started with retail.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:04.079
And so I've I've had a a long, I know I don't look it, but a very long career in retail.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:06.320
So much.
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:12.000
That was all that skincare that I keep buying from lady that, you know, just won't leave me alone.
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:13.199
I just have to buy all.
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:18.559
So I guess I've been seen as a salesperson because that has been my identity.
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:25.519
What's changed for me over the years, because you're right, sales is a dirty word, does not have a good reputation.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:36.400
And I I really feel as part of my mission in life is to spread the word that actually sales can be something really wonderful.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.599
It does change lives, it saves lives as well.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:53.440
I mean, there's so many examples I could give you where somebody has signed up for, you know, support, whether it's wellness, mental health, whether it's, you know, an opportunity for upskilling in some way that's completely changed their lives.
00:37:53.599 --> 00:38:02.400
It's selling is such an important gift, but I didn't see it as that for so long because of the reputation and also the environment in which I worked.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.639
And Helen, I'm sure that you'll resonate with this.
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:16.320
You know, I worked in a very male-dominated environment where you were taught to sell in a certain way, and you had to demonstrate that because you were judged on it, and obviously, you know, targets, and that's that's all tied up in your value and your identity.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:21.679
And so the journey for me since leaving corporate in the last five years has been redefining that for me.
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:24.320
So that because I I had a revulsion to it.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:26.639
I didn't start selling when I left corporate.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:29.440
I was just like, my gosh, I don't have anything else to do with it.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.760
I can just, you know, relax and be myself and just breathe.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.519
I haven't got to do all this stuff anymore.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:37.280
But very quickly, opportunities started to appear.
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:46.000
And I realized that I had the opportunity then to sell in a way that was defined by me and that would feel good for me and for those people that I was interacting with.
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:53.039
And so, yes, I've always been a salesperson, but I stand for a different type of selling experience.
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.039
And actually, when I reflect and look back, I was always doing that.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.639
I just wasn't being upfront and open about it.
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.320
I was just very good at ticking boxes.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.320
So when I needed to show up in a certain way in front of certain people, I would do that.
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.119
But that wasn't why I was so successful.
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:10.880
It was because I was selling in my own way.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:18.079
And at the heart of that is always the conversation, the people, the genuine connection and wanting to help and solve a problem.
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:21.679
So yeah, I'm on a mission to redefine sales, one conversation.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:22.639
I love that mission.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:22.880
Yeah.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.639
I love that mission for sure.
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:28.320
I'm kind of on that mission in redefining recruitment because it's the same thing.
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.559
I don't want people to know that I'm in recruitment, but I need them to know I'm in recruitment.
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.239
It's like what you know about I don't want you to recognize it.
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:46.320
Now I'm really proud of how I recruit, just as you're really proud of how you sell, it changes those conversations, doesn't it?
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:46.880
Yeah, it does.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:49.679
Because it comes across that clean energy of owning it.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:50.079
Yeah.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:40:12.639
But it takes time to get there because you have to get through all of the stuff that you kind of go through before, and you have to, you know, so it's when you get to that point where you and I guess it's not, you know, we have mentioned our age a few times today, but you know, when you you get to that point and you stop caring quite as much about the things and start thinking a little bit more about what you like to do.
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:21.920
Like you said, you know, you kind of you always did sales as you wanted to, but perhaps you didn't in in kind of environments.
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:27.599
Whereas now you can actually stand on that as a bit of a soapbox and say, no, this is actually how I should how I do it.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:29.199
This is how I enjoy doing it.
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:36.480
Actually, that Kirsten, who we speak spoke to on um on another podcast, also amazing kind of salesperson, but she was doing it her own way.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:43.039
And it's that thing about you've got to have, you know, I do think to sell, you have to have a level of confidence.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:51.119
And harking back to another podcast, when Jason mentioned conviction, like if you've got a conviction about what you're doing, it makes it so much easier.
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:59.679
So I think there's so many different like ingredients to that piece that you know it's it I think I think it's really, really interesting.
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:00.880
So um thank you.
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:03.519
Let's I've just what one more question before your killer question.
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:05.599
How much does it matter?
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.519
No, no, how can I rephrase that?
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:08.639
No, scrap that.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.320
Could you sell, could you sell me anything, Lisa?
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:13.599
Could I sell you anything?
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:14.480
Anything.
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:17.280
If I could uncover a need for it, then yeah.
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.079
Well, I say that a need, no, a desire.
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:23.199
I I would I would I want to say tickle.
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:30.239
I don't know why I want to say that word, but I would kind of, I think, want to explore with you your desire for a thing.
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:40.480
And if I genuinely felt that what I've got was going to absolutely tick that massive desire box for you, then yes, but could I sell you anything?
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:42.159
Would I want to sell you anything?
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:42.480
No.
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:43.519
Because why would I want to do that?
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.719
It's to prove a point that's egotistical and that is not what I am all about.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:49.920
So if you had a need and a desire, yeah, sure.
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:57.519
And it I suppose following on from that, if you if you were talking to somebody in a conversation and you really felt that, you know, so you've done a really good job.
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.039
They're really interest interested.
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:03.360
They want to go ahead with what you're doing, but actually you're like, I'm actually not sure this is the right thing for you.
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:11.840
Like now we've now we've had this conversation, now we've got to this point, and now actually I think that I've got somebody else that I could probably put you in touch with that would be better.
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:13.920
I mean, how do you deal with that kind of yeah?
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:18.960
Because that means that you completely disconnected yourself from the outcome of whatever that is.
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:19.440
Yeah.
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.639
Yeah, for yeah, for sure.
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.320
And there's been many examples of that.
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:30.159
More so I would say in my corporate career, where I would not hesitate if I felt that a competitor product was better.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:33.519
Um what I was promoting.
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:45.280
Um, that and that actually built trust so much more than me blabbering on about how brilliant this thing is and trying to make the product fit the problem when it clearly didn't.
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:52.800
So I I think just by being really authentic and really honest about is this the best thing for them, yes.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:02.639
But also I think part of it is trusting the person on the other side of the conversation that they have the intelligence and they've got the information that they need to make the decision for themselves.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:04.480
And you're facilitating that.
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:09.440
So, I mean, yes, there's been instances where there have been flags in the conversation.
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.239
I think I'm much more mindful when I'm selling for other people.
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.840
Like I absolutely want to get this right for them and their business.
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:22.159
And so I'm really mindful of only making invitation to those people that I know are a fit.
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.000
And so that's part of my framing before we even start the sales conversation.
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:26.320
Right.
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.119
You know, it's not a given that an invitation's gonna be made.
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:34.559
It's only if I know that you are an absolute fit, we can help you, we can solve this problem.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:40.719
And then if you're open to exploring that, well, then we can go through all of the details and we can come to a decision together.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:44.559
So yeah, it's not a given that there's going to be an offer every single time.
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:55.599
But just to your point earlier, Helena, about positive mindset, I always assume that they're going to be a yes, that they've got on the call because they want to explore a solution.
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.679
So I I can still go in with that approach, but that doesn't mean I'm attached to them.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.639
Saying yes.
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:09.519
I just mentioned that because we can think we we want to assume that this person is a fit, that they are going to be right, and that we're going to help them make a change.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.039
Absolutely.
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:14.480
But we're not attached to that outcome, and the goal is not the sale.
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:18.400
So the goal is the decision, but you can still approach it with a positive mindset.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.960
But I love the positivity with the clean energy.
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:22.960
Perhaps that could be a combination of the two.
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:23.519
Yeah.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.000
Yeah.
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:25.920
As opposed to negative, dirty energy.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:27.360
We don't want we don't want that.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:28.400
We need dirtiness.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:30.159
Time and a place for that kind of energy.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.840
I mean, that's I think that's really interesting.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:34.880
Assume it's a yes, but without being attached to the yes.
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:35.199
Yeah.
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:50.960
So it's like I think there's so many almost, you know, contradictions, like you said, you know, being confident, but often people aren't confident in being able to deliver something for a person when there's so many variables, or maybe they're really new in their business, or maybe it's a new product or a service.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:58.559
You know, you're not going to have that confidence, even if there's some part of you that thinks, I know I can do it and I know this is great, but can I guarantee it?
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.960
You know, can I guarantee that person's going to get those results?
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:02.639
Can I guarantee that they're going to love it?
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.400
Because there's so many different variables.
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:09.599
But where the uncertainty can come across is where you don't have the confidence in leading a conversation.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:17.920
And what I've noticed over the last five years is the importance of leadership in yourself so that you can lead others through a conversation.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:23.119
And it's not a skill that everyone naturally has, but it is a skill and you can learn how to do it.
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.199
So just like leadership in yourself.
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:26.079
Say more about that.
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:35.599
Well, coming back to the clean energy, coming back to self-awareness, coming back to taking responsibility for the part that you're playing and the role that you have and the responsibility that you have.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.000
So, you know, spend time preparing.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:43.119
Make sure that you're ready for the call, that you know something about the person, that you have done your homework.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:50.880
Make sure that you're really clear on what your potential solutions are, even if on the spot you're coming up with something bespoke, that's okay.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:54.719
But make sure that you've got some idea of what you could offer them.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:59.360
And also take ownership for the fact that you are leading them to a decision.
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.480
That you're not just going to end the conversation with, oh, I'm going to think about it.
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.360
Okay, great.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:04.800
Come back to me when you can.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:08.960
Like, no, that is not, that is not you taking responsibility for leading.
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:19.199
So that's what I mean, you leading yourself so that you can create the environment for somebody to be open to exploring and being led through a process of making a decision.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.360
One more question before the final question.
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:23.840
Look a bit shocked.
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.639
But it would be wrong of me not to ask you who your ideal client is.
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:29.039
Oh.
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:30.559
That's why you're here.
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:32.559
Sell yourself, baby.
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:40.159
Well, my ideal clients really are typically women that want to make a change.
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:54.400
It's often founderless businesses, often women that are working solo, and they know that they are so passionate and enthusiastic about the work that they're doing or the product that they've created with, you know, blood, sweat tears and love going into it.
00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:09.519
And they just don't understand how to create some excitement, to create some demand for the work that they do and be able to lead a conversation so that somebody then becomes a paying client or buys from them.
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:17.199
So as much as I've said it's not about the sale, as you said at the beginning, you know, if we don't know how to make sales, we don't have a business.
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:19.199
It's the lifeblood of everything that you do.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:23.360
For me, it's a most important skill and it does encompass lots of different things, yes.
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:30.719
But I would say my ideal clients are those women that know that they struggle with confidence around leading a conversation.
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.760
Maybe they are not sure what to say and when to say it.
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:44.559
And I'm not a fan of scripts, but I am a fan of frameworks and having some kind of things to just signpost the points in the conversation before you move on.
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:51.119
And for those people that feel that they they don't have their things joined up, I guess.
00:47:51.199 --> 00:48:03.119
They don't understand a strategy of sales, how you lead somebody through that buyer's journey and having the skill to be able to navigate all of the things that we navigate when we're having a conversation.
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:15.119
So it's those types of women really that know they've got something amazing, know that they deserve their dreams, and that they they want a way of making more money from their business.
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:20.880
It's those types of women because I know that sales are going to be something that they're gonna need to focus on.
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:29.519
So whether it's strategy, whether it's the skills, whether it's the energetic, you know, the identity, the confidence piece, it's probably a combination of all those three things.
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:44.960
But if any one of those things thinking, oh my gosh, yeah, I don't know what to say, I don't know what questions to ask, I feel stressed, I get that tightness in my chest, I come out in a cold sweat, you know, any of those feelings around selling, it could just be part of your sales process when you talk about the investment.
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:50.159
For example, I want to offer a discount, or I'd rather just email the price or the investment.
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:52.480
I I don't want to say it out loud, I don't want to talk it through.
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:56.480
You know, if any of those things are coming up, those are my ideal people to work with.
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:56.960
Yeah.
00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:57.519
Love it.
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:06.079
I am gonna send this podcast to all of the female founders that I know because you honestly, you are such a breath of fresh air when it comes to talking about sales.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.440
You really are brilliant.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:08.719
Emma, is that time?
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:12.079
I'm not gonna ask any more questions because otherwise here for three hours.
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:13.360
I'm not sure, no.
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:15.679
I won't let you think about it.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:16.639
I'll take it.
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.440
You go, you go, quick, ask your question.
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.760
So my my thing is C-words.
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.559
I think that C words within kind of the founder journey.
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:25.199
I know.
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:27.119
Yes, yeah, okay, there we go.
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.119
Yes, that one as well.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:36.800
We haven't had that one come up yet, but you know, all of those kind of C words just seem to come together to do something really big.
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:49.440
So I would I'm asking you for a word that you can either that has either driven you through your career, or maybe you'd like to leave it with us, or you know, just something to think about, or is something that you know you stand on all day long.
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:51.840
Um, what would be your C-word?
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:57.360
And we'll give you a list of the ones we've had, because we've had quite a few now, and Helen's gonna have to help me because I think she's got them in front of her.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:57.599
Okay.
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:07.599
But we've had um create uh creativity, we've had commitment, we've had coastal, we've had conviction.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:08.559
Did I say that already?
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:14.639
Go on, help, courage, free, connection, caring, and consistency.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:15.360
Yes.
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:16.639
All of them so far.
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:17.199
Okay.
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:18.239
I like the coastal one.
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:23.039
I mean, obvious one for me is Castle, but that's just my love history.
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:36.960
The the one seriously, I mean, you could have that one, but the one for me that I think is is the crux of everything that I'm passionate about and that I talk about all day long is the power of conversation.
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.000
Oh.
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.039
Conversation for me, and that's what I'm all about.
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:42.400
Mastering the conversation.
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:43.840
Can you start a conversation?
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.199
Can you lead a conversation?
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:47.519
Can you come at a conversation with that clean energy?
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:53.440
Conversations lead to clients, conversations lead to opportunity, conversations are about connection.
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:55.920
And for me, that is selling.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:57.760
Can you have a conversation with somebody?
00:50:58.719 --> 00:50:59.280
And that's it.
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:00.000
Brilliant.
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:00.960
It's really simple.
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:01.920
Really simple.
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:04.159
Bravo, that woman.
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:05.840
Whatever you're selling.
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:10.800
Brilliant.
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:12.480
Lisa, you're a star.
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:13.440
Thank you so much.
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:15.920
And we could talk forever about sales.
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.400
And no doubt we will do next time we get together.
00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:20.719
Yes, and thank you so much for having me.
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.440
I've I've loved spending time with you.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:31.199
And for anyone, if I may, if anyone would love some help in knowing how to start conversations with the right people.
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.719
So what I love to help my clients with is activate their audience because your next client, you already know.
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.960
You already know, just haven't activated them yet.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:40.960
So I've got a free resource.
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.199
It's called my seven-day sales activator.
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:44.880
So I'll share the link with you.
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:55.360
Uh it's free to download, but I I can guarantee as much as you can guarantee anything in this life that you will be able to put at least three sales conversations from the activities.
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:56.320
They're super simple.
00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:01.280
Anyone can do them, but if you do it, you will get some sales calls booked into your calendar.
00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:06.800
There's some there's some tips and some help and support in there as well to help you lead the conversation as well.
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:08.880
So yeah, I would love to have a brilliant with you.
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:10.400
You won't do the seven days.
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:11.519
I'll be signing up.
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:12.800
Yeah, okay.
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:14.239
We'll do it next week together.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:15.119
Great.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.000
Lisa, you're a star, brilliant guest, loved it.
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:20.159
We will share this as widely as we possibly can.
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.960
I know you will as well, because you're in sales, that's what you do.
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:25.679
Um, but activate your audience with this podcast.
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:26.239
No well.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:28.480
Thank you so much.
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:30.000
Let me just in the brilliant.
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:30.880
Thank you so much.
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:33.679
Three Founders walk into her.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:36.800
The podcast where you never know where you'll end up.
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:38.400
How good was she?
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:39.679
That she was so good.
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:47.599
I wish I'd had a sales trainer or someone leading me through the sales process donkeys years ago when I was telling myself I'm not very good at sales.
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:49.360
And I still tell myself that now.
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:49.760
Yeah.
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:51.280
And it's so funny, isn't it?
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:56.800
I think I know that I'm okay at I'm okay at it for other people.
00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.960
For doing and I think that's the other bit, isn't it?
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:03.280
For doing it for other people all day long, I can I can shout your name for the rooftops.
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.400
For myself, a little bit dubious, slightly suspect.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:08.800
But yeah, really, really interesting.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:12.800
I think are we up for taking that challenge, the seven day sales activator?
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:13.760
We'll do that together.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:18.719
We'll both do it at the same time seven days.
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:19.440
Let's see.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:20.079
Absolutely.
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:27.039
And we can finish off at the Kitchen Garden at Berkeley Castle, which is a lovely little restaurant that I know very well.
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:33.119
And we can go and see if I'll see if I can rustle somebody up to take us around.
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:34.320
Uh yes, please.
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.599
We definitely need to have a castle at the end of that, for sure.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:38.639
Amazing.
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:40.559
Yes, fantastic.
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:46.559
And and I had to ask her who her ideal client was, and then I love the fact that she was selling at the end.
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:47.360
Yes.
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:48.239
Yeah, really.
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:55.440
And just so comfortably and like beautifully, and not icky at all, and not performative, just this is who I am and this is what I'm really good at.
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:57.039
And you know, take it or leave it.
00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:57.679
That's what I like.
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.719
You know, that's exactly the kind of you know, that's what you've got to get across.
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:02.559
It's the it's that take it or leave it.
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:04.400
Having confidence in that for sure, yeah.
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:05.840
Confidence and conviction.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.360
Yeah, like that conviction word, just keeps coming back.
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:10.800
And it's just a conversation.
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:12.159
How hard is a conversation?
00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.519
Which weirdly is what I tell candidates when they go into an interview.
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:22.320
And I I've I've written so many blogs about it, I've talked about it so much around yes, it's an interview, but actually it's a conversation.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:28.559
The interview is the outcome, is not that you're gonna get a job, it's that you're gonna get another conversation.
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:35.119
But also the whole thing about recruitment and that piece is it's a conversation for you as much as it's about them.
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:36.239
Absolutely.
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:40.639
It's not about you selling yourself to this company, it's about them selling themselves to you.
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:54.239
And if they're not doing that very well, and you don't feel like maybe you want to work there, even though you really need a job, like you've got to make a decision at a point, and you know how you're gonna, you know, it's it's all the I think recruitment is a big amount of selling anyway.
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:54.960
Yes.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:56.639
Interesting.
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:57.280
It was really good.
00:54:57.360 --> 00:54:58.079
I really enjoyed that.
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:00.559
She's a good egg, and I've spent an evening with her.
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:02.320
We went to a a sip and paint.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:03.119
Sip and paint.
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:04.960
Yeah, you did it with Jess Knights, didn't you?
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.360
We did, yes, absolutely.
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.840
I'm so sorry, I'm so bummed I missed that.
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:10.800
I'll have to assist to it.
00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:12.000
Oh, there'll be plenty.
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:12.960
Let's do another one.
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:13.519
Let's do one.
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.679
Jess was brilliant at guiding us through.
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:16.880
Jess was the previous guest.
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:19.199
Second, second, second guest.
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:19.760
Second guest.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:20.639
First was Rachel.
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:21.360
That's right.
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:21.920
That's right.
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.599
And we ended up having dinner afterwards at an Italian next door.
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:28.239
And I mean, she's just so interesting.
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:31.519
Seriously, I would buy anything she's she's selling.
00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:32.559
I trust her.
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:37.199
Just because she brings you into her world or you, you know, yeah.
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:37.440
Yes.
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:40.159
Brilliant conversationalist, fantastic.
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:42.239
And that's all sales is at the end of the day.
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:42.960
Amazing.
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.079
Amazing.
00:55:44.320 --> 00:56:00.079
And and you know, I think we, you know, as a society, I think we're losing the art a little bit of conversation because we're spending so much time texting, so much time, you know, on not in a conversational environment and not in those, you know, people don't like phone calls anymore.
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.760
I love a phone call.
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:08.320
I mean, not a sales phone call, but funnily enough, like I mean from the yeah, that's all gone wrong.
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:16.480
You don't want someone to call and ask them if you want a new phone or different insurance or different gas or electricity, don't call Emma about those things.
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:20.880
No, you're still in castles on the other hand, or an experience in the castle.
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:21.679
Absolutely.
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:27.199
I think well, earlier before we started recording, we were talking about the fact, oh, I haven't seen you in ages.
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:30.639
Yeah, we haven't seen and we haven't chatted, we haven't had a conversation.
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:36.400
We've had moments of text on a WhatsApp that's not saying the same as conversations.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:36.719
Yeah.
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:47.440
So Saturday night, Sunday night, I had a two-hour conversation with a friend of mine on a video, and it was just so you know, you know when you did it when you were at school, didn't you?
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:51.119
You saw your friends all day, and you came home and spent three hours on the phone straight away.
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:58.239
And I just love those conversations and keeping those connects it's all all that stuff that she said, apparently.
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:01.199
And I love the fact she said it could be castle.
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah.
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.199
It's like, really?
00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:05.519
And then she said, no, conversation.
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:06.320
Fantastic.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:08.639
I actually wondered if she was gonna go with confidence.
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:12.559
Because she said it quite my few times in the last little bit.
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.800
But I think conversation's a really good one.
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:16.400
C C words are the best.
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:17.679
I need to go and sell.
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:19.199
I'm in selling mode now.
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:19.679
Okay.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:25.199
I'm in conversation mode where the outcome isn't necessarily a sale, it's just clarity over next steps.
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:25.679
Yes.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:26.079
Yes.
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:27.280
I'm gonna go and do that.
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:31.840
It's my guest again next time round, because we kind of frontloaded the series with yours.
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:34.639
So um do I think you'll like them?
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:36.000
Nah, not this time.
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:37.679
No, I think you'll find no.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:41.920
I you would I think you'll find them very interesting, very different to Lisa.
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:43.280
Yeah, pretty unique person.
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:43.679
Yeah.
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:44.559
Looking forward to it.
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:45.679
We will see you next time round.
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.000
Oh, like, subscribe, do all that jazzy stuff.
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:49.119
Isn't that what we're meant to say?
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:56.000
If you want to hear more of us wittering on, please do like, comment, and share with all of your founder friends.
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:57.679
You're such the adult in the room.
00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:00.320
I'm just the idiot that just goes along for the ride.
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.800
We will catch you next time round on Three Founders Walk Into a dot dot.
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.440
New episodes every Friday.