based16z - The Hyperliquid Trade, Early Lore, & How to Make It

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Yo yo yo.
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Hello.
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What's up, man?
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Not much.
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How are you?
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I'm good, dude.
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I appreciate you you joining.
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This is sort of a uh a mythical one for the chat.
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Yes, excited to uh be on the Thread Guy show.
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Hell yeah, man.
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Congratulations.
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Congratulations, dude.
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Um Thank you.
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I made it.
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I know you did make it.
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All right, here's where I want to start is I want to do some lore stuff.
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I was I was actually looking back.
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I think the last one of these you did was 2024 with Mando OSF keyboard monkey.
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It's kind of a classic.
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Um but I've told this story a couple times.
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The first time I ever spoke to you was I think November or December 2023.
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I was living in LA.
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I was with Frank.
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You and me and Frank had a Google Meet.
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And I was on the call and I just like liked your Twitter.
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Like I just wanted to talk to you.
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I thought you were funny, relatively funny on Twitter.
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And I was asking you about the market.
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Like things were a lot, a lot of time has passed since 2023.
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What do you like?
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What are you interested in?
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And honestly, you did not have that many takes.
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The one thing you said is you were like, Yeah, I don't know much about much, but this new hyperliquid thing is pretty sick, and you should probably farm it.
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I'm like, what's hyper liquid?
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And you were like, I don't know, it's this perps thing.
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Like, go figure it out.
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And it, I mean, it turns out to be like the most profitable airdrop of all time, one of the greatest coins ever.
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And I feel like it's the trade in a lot of ways you are known for.
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Yes, I think that has been my best trade ever.
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I think I don't have a ton of good ideas.
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A lot of getting better at trading or investing has been trying to do less, and good things only come up once in a while that you can really crush.
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And um, that was definitely the biggest one so far for me, but hopefully there will be a ton more.
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How did you identify that?
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Like, did you trade DYDX?
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Did you trade any of these perks that like were you in the roll bit trade before?
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Like, how did you identify that?
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Yeah, so I mean, I was in the roll bit trade at the time that rollbit kind of came around.
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I was one of I followed some of these, like it was like early 2023.
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I had done crypto in 2021, I had done pretty well.
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2022, I took off, I went back, I finished college, and then I was a crypto VC, like analyst at like a big fund in 2023.
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But I was also trading on-chain and and finding stuff.
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So rollbid, I found it was like kind of the same crew of people I didn't really know that well yet.
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It was like Jez and Flood and Sisyphus.
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Um, and it was like, oh yeah, this is like this really cool new slot machine.
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Um, everyone loves gambling on it.
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The coin is really cheap, there's kind of a revenue story, and you had to buy it on Solana, which I had experience with from trading like dog shit Solana NFCs in um in 2021.
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And so I'm like, okay, cool.
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And so that was actually a big win for me in 2023.
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It was kind of my only win.
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And so I kind of got into like, okay, maybe I'll try trading perps, which is usually a terrible idea.
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But I was trying to get some size on chain, and I would go on DYDX, I would go on this thing called vertex, I would go on all these kind of random perp decks.
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And at the time, it was like not a ton of leverage, and you would mess up the decks, like even buying like a hundred bitcoins.
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So if you wanted to get along like 100 BTC, I'd have like half on DYTX, a quarter on Vertex, and then like a quarter somewhere else, and you'd have like three screens at once trying to get a perp trade on in the US, which obviously everyone's like, come on, man, just like make a Binance account by some KYC from uh Papua New Guinea or whatever.
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But um, I I was doing it the hard way.
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And then Hyperliquid came around.
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I was looking for venture projects and I was looking to gamble on chain, so it was kind of a good combination because I just reached out to Jeff immediately after trying it.
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I was like, wow, this is insanely good.
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CL says good things.
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What if there's something here?
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And then I met Jeff and I was like, oh yeah, like this is the founder.
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Um, this is the guy.
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Like you could immediately get the kind of pure-pilled vision.
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Like I looked and went back and watched his podcasts on markets, and he was like so much a different class of person than I had met in crypto, pretty much ever.
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Um, like I had never met Vitalik, so this is the first kind of like super elite dude.
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And so I told kind of our font at the time, like, it was like late 2023.
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I was like, we should buy this, you know, at a billion dollars before it makes any money.
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I think this will be the trade.
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And they were like, okay, awesome.
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We agree with you.
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We're gonna give them a term sheet.
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Jeff said, uh, we like you guys, but no, thank you.
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I need the Bitcoin Immaculate Conception.
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At which point I was like, okay, well, then I'll just spend the next year or whatever farming this as my full-time job, and ended up doing that.
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Um, but I think it was really a founder bet in a lot of ways because he had a lot of, I mean, people all know this now.
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I think I've honestly gotten kind of, I mean, I still love the team and the product.
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Like, I just I feel like this story, like, I'm a pretty ADHD impatient person.
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So I I even don't have as many interesting things to say about it at this point.
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Like, obviously, it's mature, it's it's a great thing now.
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It'll keep being one of the cooler things going on in crypto.
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But I don't know if I have a differentiated hyperliquid take at this stage.
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But at that time, it was like, here's this like super awesome guy building in a thing where I was trying to find a better product, and it was kind of an amazing confluence of factors that led me to just go click trade$3 billion of Bitcoin 40x perp volume for a year, a week without uh any perp trading experience.
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So it was kind of fun.
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I honestly don't even want to differentiate hyperliquid take, but I am curious this because I I don't know how big of a trade it was for you, but it's sort of the one that I think I know you for at the beginning.
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And whatever you sold it at, I'm sure you did well, but most likely it was significantly lower than what it is trading at right now and what it traded at uh maybe a month ago.
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And so I'm curious when you think back of the trade.
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Like you farmed this thing for a year, you had so much conviction in it.
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I'm not sure I've seen you have one idea that consisted for a year straight.
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How do you reflect on like the execution and how do you even execute a trade like that?
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Like you bet on this thing, it happens, it plays out, you get your airdrop, it's in your hands, it's the timeline, everyone's talking about it, you were convicted early.
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Like, how do you execute from that stage?
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Well, this is the first funny story about it is that I had my keys for all my farming wallets on a shitty old MacBook that right the way it had always been working, and then the week before the drop came out, it died and wouldn't turn on and was just cooked, and I had no seed phrase backup, as some people know.
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So this is like five days.
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I had gone to Flood's house through our very legal, you know, kind of deep VPN setup to get ready to claim, and the laptop works, and then I tried to open it like a couple days later, and just nothing.
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So I'm calling Shoku, I'm calling everybody I know who's got those high up tech contacts.
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I go to the Apple store, I go to um, you know, a specified repair shop.
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He's like, We're gonna have to send this thing to the IDF, you know.
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Like it was it was very deep because I was like, this is my ticket.
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Like I had been doing well, like I had made enough every year in crypto to transport myself.
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I was also working a job, like it was kind of a cool thing, but I knew this was gonna be like the big play at the time, and so I was like, well, fuck.
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So I kind of just freaked out for a little bit, and then you know, I don't know, where my old roommate, I remembered he had kept my laptop from my first uh apartment in New York in East Village, and I was like, yo, dude, like by the way, did you potentially keep that laptop?
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Uh I just kind of need it a little bit, and he was like, Yeah, I got you, but can you pick it up in like a couple weeks?
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Like, I'm kind of chilling with my girl right now, and I was like, No, like I actually be really chill if uh if I could come over like today, maybe in the next two hours.
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So I go over to his apartment, and it turned out the old laptop had the old keys, and I like saved it.
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So I had gone through the first day of the airdrop, and like the following five days, like the run from like three dollars to eight bucks without the coins even.
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So I got the first three X for free, like without even doing anything.
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And I was like, okay, great.
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This is now 90% of my portfolio already at$10.
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Uh, I was I was like, I logged in.
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The first thing I did was buy more, and then I texted Shoku and was like, is this a good idea?
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Meanwhile, he's buying my coins.
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He's like, um, you know, yeah, probably not.
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You should probably sell and put a bunch in the SP and uh change your life.
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And I think that was actually the right advice in hindsight.
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And I'm glad that I sold that I sold some there.
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I ended up selling the rest, I think was probably a mistake in like the$30 to$40 range, probably out of impatience, honestly, or or just being, I think that's something that I will have to learn going forward is like, what is a forever hold asset?
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How do you realize tail outcomes?
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Kind of how do you mentally remove yourself from something?
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Because I think one of the biggest challenges is like, especially if you have a big position on, which I usually size positions either really big or not at all, um, it takes mental space, right?
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And especially if you're trying to do other things than trade or invest, or if you have other things going on, it's like it's like a weight on you.
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And so figuring out how to kind of let go of that and be okay with, hey, this is kind of a permanent capital story, or this is like an asset that I want to be allocated to over the super long horizon is something I I have yet to learn.
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What I uh on the change your life topic, probably congratulations, but on the change your life topic, it should have been me.
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I had TraderMate on uh I don't know, a little while ago, and he told the story about when he sold breakout and it was like life-changing money to Kraken.
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And there was like 24 or 48 hours of just like the greatest euphoria you could ever imagine in your entire life, and then basically back to baseline, like like let's get to work now, even after life changing money.
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Like after uh uh you secure it, what I don't know, what was it like emotionally?
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And how has it sort of like changed how you think about trading, how you your like views on the world after sort of securing life changing money?
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You know, it's so funny because when I grew up as like a young kid, basically, my parents did pretty well like up in the middle of class, but they were like, My mom is part of this kind of religious group that's very like you know, kind of a classic LA mom type group, and they're like, you know, you got to meditate, and um, money's actually evil, and um, you should really just try to be content with what you have, and um, you know, all these things are just kind of desire and then these like Buddhist concepts.
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And so I've grown up on that, and then I was always a super ambitious kid at the same time, where I had been like originally it was toward sports, and then I got pretty shitty at sports, and then it was kind of toward math competitions, and and like school was my big thing, trying to get into like a sick college, and then I got into a sick college, and I was like, I need to get the best job.
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And I think part of being in college too was like, okay, I'm around people that are some of the wealthiest individuals in the world.
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I'm like running around getting free courtside tickets to NBA games, and I'm like, okay, there's something here, and so it was a weird kind of um kind of self-identity or values thing that evolved semi-unnaturally, as well as like I've been doing crypto since 2020 and kind of like running it up that way.
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Um, and so I don't know.
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And then so finally you get to this thing where it's like, I remember, dude, I was there was in 2022, I was I was dating this um girl whose dad is a billionaire, a multi-billionaire.
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And she was like, Man, you spend all day on the computer, you're trying to run a what up,$10 million?
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It's like no money.
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Like, just come chill with me.
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Like, what the hell?
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So there's like that side of it, and then um there's kind of the side of like, yeah, I could get into the trader main stuff too.
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So anyway, it came from like a lot of convoluted places, so it's like a mixed win in a way, where it's like, okay, congratulations.
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You spent uh, you know, three years of your life, 16 hours a day on the computer.
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Here you go.
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You you got to level one off level zero.
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Now what?
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Um, and I had spent a bunch of time where it was like, okay, now I'm now I'm retired.
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Now I'm just gonna go party for three months, now I'm gonna go do a bunch of stupid things and spend time around low vibrational people and and do things that aren't really positive um for me and not really feel that good.
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And that's honestly what I did in the first few months after that.
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And it was also kind of a a gut check because it was like, you know, even now, right?
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Like, I don't have a probably an accomplishment yet that's I'm not as well for as just hitting this kind of lick thanks to Jeff.
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And so it's like, oh wow, like I used to feel like on the come up, and now like where is my identity to go next?
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Is this all there was?
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Uh there's a lot of mixed emotions around it for sure.
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And I think um it can be weird.
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But in summary, I mean, I was obviously feeling extremely blessed, like super lucky, happy for the the karma that got me there.
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And then after a few months of kind of puttering around doing the semi-retired derived trader bit, I was like, okay, I got to get on what's next.
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And I really have to go back to to playing games at a high level.
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And and then the question of what that should be is still kind of open.
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I think I've tried to spend more time with earlier private companies, tried to kind of develop skill sets beyond because obviously being in crypto a long time, you lose a lot of of what you had in terms of like I was a really cracked, like I taught a you know discrete math class, and I was a good programmer, and I was like a good writer.
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It's like now I'm really good at telling you that because this uh quantum headline came out, you know, ZK sync is gonna pump.
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And it's like a very silly way to orient your brain, along with Twitter.
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And so I've kind of had to work my way into like, okay, trading is still fun and rewarding, and I and I like having it in my life, and and how can I do it in a way?
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I think on chain there's many areas of crypto trading I go through too.
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Like lately, I found like literally options trading on majors to be most interesting, um, just because it's liquid and fun, and uh I don't know, I like variants, but um yeah, that's a very long-winded roundabout answer to that question, but it's kind of my ramble.
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You think making a lot of money like via trading specifically rather than running up a startup or doing something like this has made you like a little bit nihilistic?
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Like I when I read your tweets, I know it's a little bit of a bit, but there's always some uh seriousness under the hood.
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I sometimes you're having like the greatest time ever, and you're euphoric, and it feels like you're actually just like loving posting and writing.
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And when you publish articles, it feels like you really enjoy it.
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And then other times it feels like you're like depressed as fuck when you're tweeting, and I could never tell like where you are at on the spectrum.
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Yeah, I mean, this comes back to growing up too and not even just trading.
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Like I was a very happy kid, and then around 15, 16, I did my kind of very aggressively done edgy teenager phase, and I was a big Camus kid, and I was getting blackout drunk every weekend, and I was fighting with my parents, and I was doing all the kind of silly depressed teen tropes.
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But I think there was some like real kind of a lot of it coming from philosophy because I was originally like a big philosophy kid.
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I think what helped me in college was I went from all of that like easy nihilism or like cynicism toward ideally like reading Thus Spoke's Arthustra by Nietzsche, as cliche as it may be.
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Like put me to like a post that kind of space.
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But I think day to day I I don't feel like I have everything figured out or or where I think about things philosophically.
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My mood can fluctuate.
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Meditation is still good for me.
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That probably grounds me many weeks.
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As you see, like I'm grounded, happy kind of.
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Are you a daily meditator?
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No, no, um, but when I do meditate, it's good.
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Like I, you know, I used to use it, it's so funny, I'd use it as like a hack.
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Like I would take these like math competitions or tests or like anything where I had to or like doing interviews for hedge funds and things, and I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna do my six minute meditation before, and then I would like rip on it, like I'd be out of my head.
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And I still find that it it'll like brief me.
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I'll I'll like use it as a as a crutch like that.
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I try to do it more, but um, obviously, you know, there's many things pulling your brain in in so many different directions, and and you're a victim of your own habits sometimes as well.
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You you made a comment earlier, uh, as far as trading goes, you said you size really big or not at all.
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Can you like explain your trading style to me, or at least the type of trades that you do the best on and make the most money on, positioning wise?
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Yeah, so I mean there's short and long term, right?
00:14:55.279 --> 00:15:01.919
Like um, I can go back to when I started trading in 2020, I had like five grand and I had made from like tutoring and uh playing online poker.
00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:03.840
And then I basically just got pretty lucky.
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:11.600
I had got I had gotten into crypto because I was like gonna go, you know, work at Andreessen and I had, or I was trying to, I think they rejected me the last round.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:13.120
I was like a college sophomore.
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:20.240
I was programming in Cairo, like winning, like I won one ETH in like a hackathon for like their ZK programming language.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:34.240
I was like very like um and I was very sovereign individual pilled, and so I was like academic kind of approach to crypto being like maybe this will be an interesting career avenue, or at least you know, a fun thing to show on your resume, because I was very like box checker resume builder kid at that time.
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:40.879
And then the first NFT I ever minted was this thing called blip maps, and I like literally got so addicted to minting them because they were so fun to mint.
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:52.639
I remember I was with my friend in like my college apartment, and so I just basically full ported it because I was addicted to minting it, and then they which was like you know, two ETH, and then they went up to uh they they were point one ETH to min, they went to like 30 ETH.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:03.679
And so I was like, oh wow, like now I've made 200 grand, which is more money than you know anyone around me has ever seen in their life, uh, except for at college, obviously, with the people's parents, but it but it was like, oh, this is a thing to do.
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:05.679
So then I kind of locked in, I traded NFTs for years.
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:13.840
And so at that time, what I was really good at was getting lucky the first time, and then I was in kind of the Discord there, and I would just be able to spot things that would do well from an art perspective.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:22.799
So um, like Terraforms was like big for me, and then like and I was also like open to Solana as a thesis, so I did really well on like just finding Solana early, I think.
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:27.519
Thanks to um Ansem, who I actually met in a strip club in 2021 uh in Miami Fun Lore.
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:28.960
Like, I was like, yo, are you Anson?
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.559
And he was like, How do you know that?
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:42.320
Uh and um so at that time it was just like I think a lot of crypto at that time was just being early, which I think is also true for role button hyper liquid later, just like exploring things and then having that initial filter to be like, hey, am I early or not?
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:43.679
And hey, is this legit or not?
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.279
Now crypto's matured a lot.
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:58.240
Um, I find that I can be good in the last year or so at just finding asymmetries where I can develop high conviction and just really take aggressive option bets um that other people might not take.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:07.519
Like this year, like all my PL is from two trades, which are one jamming weekly Bitcoin calls on the Bessent headline.
00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:19.039
That was a common and how that kind and it's like as long as you can put enough, like you can get up to like 300x levered kind of on notional with uh with call options if you're buying short dated enough.
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.440
Um, and so when it works, it can really work.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.359
And and in that case, you just like feel it.
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.799
And so it's I can I can just find those spots from developing interest.
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:27.039
Right.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.160
The other one was Robinhood, right?
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:38.319
The day where like it was just like, hey, if you can get you can get insane leverage, and if you just size it ridiculous, um, you can make a lot of money, kind of like a venture better, as long as you're willing to lose all the premium.
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:45.279
Um, and so it's been just trying to like max exploit spots where I think I can be right and try to win in huge ways.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:52.640
Um, other ways, like, and I haven't because also I've been working a lot more with um with on on non-trading.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:58.400
Um, and so I just have less time to have all that coverage to like, for example, be like, oh, variational is gonna be a sick farm.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:06.480
Like, I need to get early to that, I need to start developing a bot, like kind of things that I think either maybe it's just laziness or it's just I'm not up on like Pearl, for example.
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.000
I knew about Pearl and I was kind of interested in it, but I never double clicked.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:16.640
And that's probably a more sustainable way to make money in a in a less downside way because it's just like kind of like Jez, right?
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.559
I think I think me and Jez were very similar at the time.
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.799
It's like find something early, develop your fiction around it before everyone gets access, buy it when it's hard to buy.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.440
Your downside is just really limited and your upside can be great.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:30.799
That's like the most classic pure way to make money in crypto, which is what I did for the first three to four years in crypto.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.920
Now I've tried to find these kind of narrative and positioning inflection points that I can just hammer.
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:42.880
Um, and my penal really depends on whether I have the self-discipline to wait for the spot where I really know to hammer.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.759
Like, even on like meta muse, I like messed up that trade, I would say.
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:58.160
And like I'm still getting that would have been the third one because it just became so obvious on that Friday where I went to number one app store and I kind of tweeted like a question like, yo, can this work as a consensus instead of like really just developing the conviction and slamming it on calls?
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:06.640
Um, but but spots like that and then not punting at spots where you're you know 50% conviction or something and just having the patience to do nothing.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.839
Um, yeah.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.519
Where have you lost the most?
00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.119
And like what setups do you think it can be?
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:14.640
Perpetual futures, perpetual futures are terrible, dude.
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:21.359
I I would just because I had needed to farm hyperliquid, I would just trade perps all day.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.720
And I think one thing about hyperliquid is it's an amazing product.
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:27.680
Like the thing makes you want to sit there and click all day.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:33.359
I actually have little to no edge or maybe negative on super low time frame price action.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:40.960
And yet I have this same desire as call options to be like 40x levered all the time, you know, just out of bad habits from trying to farm volume on HL.
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.599
And I think just the way I developed as a perpetrator.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.400
So I have lost, I think historically a ton.
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:52.640
I've had winning periods, but I if you look at my all-time PL, my biggest losses are are definitely perpetual futures.
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.359
And then I mean, I had some other big losses buying, I think buying too many SPX posts last year.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.559
If people know that kind of hilarious saga, I just kept, I just kept wanting something to work that wasn't.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.240
I think there was something to learn from that.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.880
And that, hey, like if at first you don't succeed, actually stop in trading.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:10.240
Why do you think that didn't work?
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:11.839
By the way, I felt like that should have worked.
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.160
The 0.3 minus 0.3 meme.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:21.279
Yeah, I mean, like, I can't tell you, you know, the SP is a market that even to profess to try to have edge on is probably very hard.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.000
So there's a certain stupidity in even trying, right?
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:25.119
Would be the first part.
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:37.200
And then, second of all, I mean, I think um there's just the USD is is not going up in a uh purchasing power business or any other type of sense.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:49.359
And so as good Alexander kind of put it, like, oh, you're trying to short the stock market, like you're trying to get more USD, like it's kind of a cooked proposition, and I think uh that may be a structural reason why it wouldn't work.
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:55.519
But I can't tell you who's uh who propped up the the SP 500 during that period, but obviously they were right because it's it's higher now.
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:01.759
Okay, you your second most famous trade, unfortunately, which I I just I want to know, um Snapchat.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:10.000
Oh, yeah, that's so funny because I think like at the time that this account started blowing up, it was all meme point trades, which were you know for better or for worse.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:11.119
Um it's kind of a transition.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:21.279
But yeah, I mean, Snapchat was a spot again where I um I had been talking to one of my friends who's like really sick CEO, and we both I had seen kind of this inflection around the subscription revenue.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:28.000
I had kind of seen it as like, okay, wait, this is gonna become free cash flow positive after being this nuked forever.
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:33.200
Nobody cares about this thing, and you have like a tail call option in specs because I was pretty bullish on new form factors.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.440
Like Zuck's been trying to beat the Apple kind of hardware mode for a long time.
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.640
There's another thing where like my iPhone's been getting worse to the point that I'm actually open to switching form factors pretty soon.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:44.880
So I feel like there was a way to cut in.
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:53.599
Um, and then it was just like a product that I had met of my brother who's younger than me and a bunch of younger people, as well as like the Burnerverse uh kind of screenshots.
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:54.799
I had just seen snap.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:55.759
That's a good one, actually.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.559
The Burnerverse.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.200
Yeah, right.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.279
Like becoming ubiquitous again.
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:00.960
So Those things kind of came together.
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:08.559
I'm still like sympathetic to it working, but I think uh it was just like, hey, Evan's out to lunch, you're betting on a bad management team.
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.720
Um, there's no way for the SP to include it based on uh like sleepy sauce.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.480
You wrote, like, why would you even bet on this?
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:19.599
Evan doesn't even care about pumping this because like he can't get into the SP, so there's no exit liquidity if he pumps it.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:24.480
Um, so there was just a bunch of things that I missed, I think, where I was like, oh my God, I'm such a genius.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.400
I found this great business turnaround case with all these confluences.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:38.720
And it was like, hey, you kind of missed the uh huge thing standing right in front of you, which is that it's like a historically terrible management team that barely even has an incentive to pump their stock, as well as their printing stock all day.
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:45.519
And so you not only would need this to work, but you would need it to work in such an aggressive way that you defeat the the kind of starter steps that you maybe forgot about.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.079
But I mean, that was a fun one to get to get ragged on.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.920
And um, I don't mind being wrong in public.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:50.559
I think it's pretty fun.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:55.920
And and honestly, given my win rate historically, like I've been profitable pretty every year in crypto.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.640
Um, and my win rate has always been around like 25 to 30 percent, uh, just because of the asymmetry that exists here.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.680
So almost always wrong.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:02.720
How much are you risking?
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:05.759
Like, what percent do you draw down on a convicted trade like Snapchat?
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:07.920
Uh Snap was actually way too much.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.079
Snap I probably drew on 10 because I had volume.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:10.640
Full port.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:12.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.000
Which is way not sure how I'm doing.
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:22.240
I've actually in the last eight months, I um I moved like 70% of my liquid book into an account that I can't touch.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:30.640
Um, because I think at that time, like I would just be like 1.5x, you know, net worth leverage snap, which is how I used to trade things um on a smaller book.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.240
And like I was cool with that.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.200
Um and taking, you know, like I've had I've had 60.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:40.720
I've never had a full blow up, but um, I've definitely had like 50, 60 portfolio drawdowns in smaller size.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:48.880
I think, especially when farming hype, actually, because I was perp trading all day, like I was just slowly drawing down over time because I was like edgelessly paying a bunch of fees.
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.079
Um, but uh oh, am I still on this?
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.960
I almost just quit the uh the zoom application here.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:55.599
I think we're good.
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.160
You're good.
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:57.279
Okay, cool.
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:13.440
Um, anyway, uh I've learned to put some money away that's not related to trading so that I can go back to feeling really confident with the book that I am trading and being willing to just like take you know 40 bed sizes on that book um without it really risking my you know whole livelihood.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:22.960
You mentioned the meme coins 2024 is a wild year, and I feel like you are really at the forefront of I don't know, like the nihilism cycle for a lot of it, also narrative-wise on a lot of it.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:30.720
How much of an impact do you think like coming up trading meme coins has impacted the style that you come at markets with right now?
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:37.440
Yeah, I mean, for me, it feels like really like NFTs was number one, but then meme coins was like an extension of that where I saw the same thing happening again.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.039
It was a weird thing, like it was definitely like super.
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:48.559
I think what meme coins taught me in a bad way is like it was so PvP of like, okay, we all know this thing's going to zero within.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:50.720
I mean, actually, honestly, not everyone said that at the time.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.640
People were saying these were gonna be a new kind of like permanent asset we had Murad, right?
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:55.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.799
We had Mirage and all these things, and it was like, no, it's like in a tease.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.200
You're playing a game where it goes really high and then it goes back to zero.
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:06.720
And so, like, the way you play that game is so different from what you might play with an asset that somebody might want to own forever.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:14.559
I think you know, I own uh George Droid token forever, but I think there's very few sort of those uh those people in the market.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:28.880
Um, and so it probably taught me a lot of bad habits that caused me to be overly not long enough beta um in a portfolio sense to be overly short terminist with things, some other habits to unlearn, but I think some of those can be, you know, really true in equity markets today.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:36.319
Like I'm I was an investor in Satrini's business, like I think he's been really ahead of the curve on like how memetic and narrative-driven equities have gotten.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.119
You can make money trading the Muse story on Meta.
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:44.000
You can make money trading the SaaSpocalypse headlines on anthropic blog posts.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:48.960
Like, and those are all the same kind of like short-term is zero sum sort of playing fields.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:57.759
And so you can keep playing those, but at the same time, I mean, as I've talked to CEO friends, it's like it's also probably better to try to orient your life around playing long-term positive sum games.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.640
You know, I actually retweeted it in Evolve 2018 post the other day.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:09.680
Like a lot of my initial guidance to go try to get rich was from that era of like own equity, own tokens, work long-term gaze as long-term people.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:19.920
Um, and somewhere along the way of spending a lot of time in crypto, you can kind of lose that wisdom and and have to kind of gain it back because there's not a lot of compounding in um in playing poker all day.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.400
By the way, you take your retweets pretty seriously.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:24.319
I enjoy retweeting my so funny.
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:26.079
My retweets do way better than my tweets.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:31.440
Like sometimes I'll find a tweet with like 10 likes, I'll retweet it, I'll come back and it's like 6,000 likes.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:37.119
And I'm like, okay, we just we just I mean, there's um I had a friend who wrote a thing about curating as content creation.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:59.119
Like, even the way like I explore, I like exploring copy pastas and like I mean, social media is just such a slopped-out platform that I think a lot of posting is kind of one-on-one with just like curating, copying, collaging, um, and just kind of like repeating uh a chant back into the same the same um space as you're reading.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:00.400
Uh yeah.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.640
Going back to the memetics of markets, it it comes back to this.
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:13.359
It's my favorite article you've ever written, honestly, is um by the way, the I think neo-feudalism arc is like blocked on your your website.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:14.000
You gotta fix that.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.599
The fucking the vibe guitar slot.
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:17.200
If click on it, Groc, Groc, get over.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:18.160
Yeah, somebody fix that shit.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:24.000
But um my favorite one that you've written that I've referenced uh infinite times at this point is Mega Church.
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:30.640
And I honestly I don't know how well it's worked for me, but like conceptually, it was such a fascinating idea to hear it articulate.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.759
Like people trade this way, and there's been infinite trades like this.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:35.359
You know, I I met Chris Camillo.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:37.599
He that's basically how he trades as well.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.680
Um, but to hear it spelled out like that was just pretty fascinating.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.599
And you referenced, I think you referenced Taylor, but you referenced the City Sweeney American Eagle trade, which is just like I can you tell me about that?
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.039
It's just like my favorite trade ever.
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:51.920
I played no part in it, I wasn't even paying attention when it happened.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:53.599
But did you trade that well?
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.279
Like can you talk about Mega Church a little bit?
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:56.480
I I traded it okay.
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:27.119
I mean, so like I saw that I so here's like a lot of things, a lot of times when I get these high convictions about it, like I mentioned the Bitcoin thing earlier, with like with uh with it, wasn't just that you know, Best and had these comments, it was like there's a Trump conference coming up, best of these comments, and also all the sharpest option trader dudes I said I follow have been sent, and and Stowe is looking for an upside break, and the sharpest option dudes I follow are saying call sellers are offside, and there's all this other kind of background context that all of a sudden rolled into that light bulb moment where you go, Oh shit, get me to the screen, let me slam this.
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:30.079
And that's kind of the feeling that I want to have if I'm gonna make money.
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:38.079
In this case, on American Eagle, I've been following this dude's Sleepy Soul on Twitter, who I really like, who has a bunch of kind of really good insight on consumer names.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:44.960
And he'd been posting about American Eagle for like three months, being like, Hey, this is a turnaround story, it's trading really cheaply, the business is kind of turning around.
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:46.000
Like, keep an eye on this one.
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.119
So it was in the back of my mind.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:51.839
And then I saw that Sydney Sweeney thing come out, and then I saw this guy Wagey Capital.
00:28:51.920 --> 00:29:01.279
This is more just spending time on Twitter, Wagey Capital being like, yo, this is gonna be huge for American Eagle, and it all like came together instantly in my mind where I was like, Oh, Sydney Sweeney is the biggest person on earth.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:08.079
This is gonna go the most viral of all time, and the stock is already super cheap, according to my expert network here of Sleepy Soul.
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.160
So, like, I can just basically full port this.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:15.200
So I basically ripped 80% book into spot American Eagle uh pretty at like decent size.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.440
Like I was moving the name around, uh 80%.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.119
Um, yeah, because I was like, Oh, what's my drawdown risk here?
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.079
Well, it's like a decent consumer stock, it's not gonna go to zero tomorrow.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:26.799
And my friend already says it's good, and my upside is great.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.880
So, like, this is like a real asymmetry.
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:39.440
Now, I think as I've learned going forward, sizing smaller actually would have been better because I had sized so big, I'm like glued to the tick chart, and I ended up taking profit on like a majority position at like a 40% move.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.759
And like, obviously, that was great, you know, it's very good for my portfolio, but like the stock went 3x, right?
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.079
So I didn't actually realize my equity as much as I should have from the bet because I oversized it in that way.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:52.400
And so I've tried to size down because it it's not because you know it wouldn't have made as much money.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:30:05.680
Like, I think the sizing could be right from a drawdown and upside perspective in a Kelly criterion sense, but it was wrong in the sense that you have to look at your own emotions and be like, is sizing this trade this way going to cause me to, you know, manage it differently?
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:08.000
Um, and so I think that's where I traded it poorly.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:16.240
Um, but that was like a fun one where it was like, okay, everything came together, and this is the new internet, and people now we have City Sweeney doing, you know, naked prediction market ads.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:24.240
We've kind of reached the like logical uh post conclusion of that story, like almost like an epilogue.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.279
Um, how did that that prediction market's what happened?
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.559
I don't like how do we get here?
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.599
Yeah, how do we get?
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:52.640
Yeah, I mean, like every idea that comes out becomes like an abused parody of itself in my mind on the internet a lot because like everyone, like like I said with curation and and repeating and things and memetics, like the incentive and the the pattern formation and what the algorithm wants you to do is just repeat back a twist and a requote and a and a you know um video reaction to what you already saw.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:03.680
And so when people see something like Sydney Sweeney ad rips, they don't think, oh, who's the next, you know, mega celeb that they think, how do I get a Sydney Sweeney ad from my brand?
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.200
You know, and I think there's just a very narrow way to interpret that.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:16.480
And then once you have that amount of kind of copying, you end up with this garbled, uh silly version of what was originally kind of awesome.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.000
How impactful do you think Twitter is on your trading performance?
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:21.039
I don't know.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:24.559
I mean, Twitter is weird because like I struggle with like as the accounts got bigger.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:31.599
Like when I used to be, when I like I started this account in 2023, it was like 2,000 followers, and I'd just be like, yeah, man, like I would be a community member, literally.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:49.200
Like I'd be out there all day, like, yo, retardio is the future, like get out of my mentions, like, and it was so fun because it like that was part of the the the optimistic side of crypt that I've heard from NFTs, where you know, even as I have my own like nihilistic view on it now, it was like, hey, we're all rallying around this kind of asset.
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:53.440
It's like a fun way to come together and like shared ownership is cool.
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:58.400
Um, and then as I got further along, like, definitely if you're able to curate, like Anselm is definitely the best in the world.
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:07.359
This I think might be actually one of his best skills of like he found my account and we didn't know he didn't know it was me IRL um when it was like 3,000 followers and started being like, Oh, you have some good ideas.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:25.200
And he finds these other accounts like that are way better than me, just like instantly, like they somehow just like he has that like venture ability on Twitter accounts, and I think if you have that, like I've and it's just like a way to there's two ways to get ideas from smart people one is to look at them on Twitter, and another way is talk to them directly in group chats or on the phone or whatever.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:26.559
Those are both equivalent.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:43.119
The part of that you can uniquely get from Twitter, probably is the kind of general feeling or like memetics that you can like internalize, and then the part that's tough is like posting stuff like it can be beneficial to like like I think Good Alexander helped cause the like um NVIDIA kind of scare.
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:48.160
And I think Citrini contributed too right, and I've definitely caused some of my own things at deep seek at smaller scale.
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:49.119
Deep seek, yeah.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:49.680
You remember the NVIDIA?
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:51.200
That was fucking nuts, yeah.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.920
How impactful was good Alexander on that?
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.799
You think significant?
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.640
I mean, I kind of so that was a great that was one of my best trades that year as well.
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:08.720
Um, I kind of watched it go from like buzzing to like buzzing louder to like, oh man, this good Alexander tweet is gonna get five million views, and also it's causing me to want to short it.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:09.039
Whoa.
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:19.599
Um, and so I feel like that was you know uh accelerant or like the the inflection point of that story, but obviously, like the training at Service It and other like smart folks had serviced it when it came out like three weeks earlier.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.960
But it's so funny to see like that's how kind of and news is very similar.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.720
Like news came out, stock did nothing.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.240
Eventually, story reach reaches like that parabola, and then all of a sudden all the price action shows up the next Monday.
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:33.519
And that's true for both the deep sea trade and for what happened with meta, largely.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:34.480
What about Hood?
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:35.920
How much do you think you impacted Hood?
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:44.720
Probably a little bit, honestly, which is crazy because like I don't necessarily like like I was just trying to like when I'm in flow, it's like okay, like um, here's my idea.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:49.119
I want to be right in public, like I feel good about this, want to share this with people.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.119
Also, like I can help spread the story.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:34:02.400
But like it sucks if you're like, like, I think you obviously do a certain point, like obviously, like I used to like buy American shit going on attract wallet and then sell it immediately just to kind of do the bit, do the bit of like, oh, this is all so stupid.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:03.839
Like, I'm just moving this thing around.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:11.360
And like, I don't think that's a good way for us to for like to be interacting with the market because it's just not scalable at all, nor is it like positive feeling.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:17.119
And also, then you feel like you don't want to take profit on it because like I'm taking profit literally directly from causing this ripple.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.960
And so, I mean, definitely partially.
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:27.360
Like, I prefer in the best case, I'd like to be like, hey, I can help be an accelerant for a story for either a company over the long term or for a trade idea that it becomes bigger than it.
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.599
I think what's worse is like you put on an idea, it goes viral, and it wasn't really right.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:36.159
And so therefore, you just like did like an American shit coin on it, and that's what I like to avoid, obviously.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.760
But but that's part of Twitter too, is like posting into things and like sharing your ideas around it.
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:42.480
And I think people would admit to less of the impact of that.
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:53.360
Like, even like semi-analysis, which I kind of wrote about this week, is like the scaled version of that, where this is like a probably nine-figure ARR company that literally just does KOL posts to pod shops.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.880
And so, like, I mean, that's kind of how the market at this point works, um, for better or for worse.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.679
But obviously, like I'm a a member and and viewer of that system at the same time.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.679
Um, rather than your trading, what do you think about Twitter impacting the market broadly now?
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:11.039
Like, I think you you just wrote about this in uh Muse, Muse, yeah, in Muse.
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.679
It was like X as a platform to basically pump stocks and sell equities, and like that's it.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:20.320
That's what everyone, Elon's on there doing it, like Axiom Avengers are on there doing it.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:26.559
Everyone from like you know, microcaps to you know, multi-trillion dollar companies are doing the exact same thing on this app all day.
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:35.119
Yeah, um, I mean, it's been pretty obvious to watch Jensen make an account and what Alex Wang is doing.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:46.480
And like, if you even look at like I was trading GitLab this week, and like the GitLab CEO is like trying to like the most pitiful effects to get like four like tweets about GitLab storytelling, it's on my stream doc all the time.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:47.840
Basics is you tweeted about GitLab again.
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:49.199
I'm like, should I long it?
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:49.920
I don't know.
00:35:50.000 --> 00:36:06.000
GitLab is a funny one for me, um, because there's just not uh it there's parts of the software stack that I understand, and like that's why like CRMs or GitLab or or like MongoDB or something, or like like I enjoy the tradability of names when you're more familiar with like what it actually does, and you've like used it.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:10.719
And because like that was what's been so hard about semi-conductors for me is like, dude, I can't tell you what a substrate is.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:12.400
I don't have any interest to learn about hardware.
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:17.679
I don't I don't know how fab, I a tape out, like all these things are just boring to me.
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.519
And so that's why I like my it was for crypto and now it's like moving to equities.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:29.519
Like, obviously, semis have been where people have been making the most money, and like I haven't participated in that, but at the same time, like it's nice to be able to trade something that you like generally understand.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:34.239
I think it even if you don't have to like go so deep into it, um, that impacts it.
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:35.440
But more broadly, yeah.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:39.679
I mean, it's it's definitely the place where capital allocators are reading their slough.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:37:10.320
I mean, if you think about like where did somebody log on all day, like and read, that's where it is, and so that's why everyone's there because like I think just like my own progression of what might have been a more traditional hedge fund career to kind of just like click trading options on storytelling, like the broader market is also moving that way with Chris Camillo or even varying levels of how people trade at pods and how people trade it, you know, people want to act like an investment committee has some rigor at these long only funds, but like they're at the end of the day, they're also having 10 hours of screen time, right?
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:19.440
These and these end people that are making the decisions, and so there's a subconscious and conscious impact on that that that is now being you know responded to in the market of information.
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:23.599
Stock down 30 year to date, mandatory David Senra podcast.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:25.679
It's so good, dude.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.280
That's actually so true, though.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.440
You'll see, like, uh-oh, app loving guys on there.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:30.639
How's how's their like dude?
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:35.280
When Evan Spiegel went on there after the snap nuke, I was like, man, this is the this is a nail in the coffin for me, right?
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:37.440
Cerebris is doing cerebrus is like being a good one.
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:39.440
Yeah, cerebrus needs to go on Senra soon.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.920
The thing that's hilarious about your trading style, by the way, you're like a brutal naughty.
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:49.760
Is every day, based on your positioning, which I feel like you flip a lot, you are like the most bullish ever.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:02.159
Dollar is zero, United States going to shit, defaulting on the debt, and then the next day you are like worthless scam, fuck this, and you're retweeting and it's non-stop, and everyone follows you, it's all over your feed.
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:07.119
Like, do you actually did your like do you actually think like this, or is it pointing positioning based?
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:10.000
Like, is every day sort of the worst or the best ever?
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:11.840
And like, do you flip like that?
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:22.480
I yeah, I mean, I find that like I can switch my mental very quickly, and I find that you have to like in order to stay steadfast, because like my positions that work work really well and go hard.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:33.119
And so, like, I need to have the ability, like the way I'm gonna make money is to realize okay, if I got these Bitcoin calls, I need to hit the move all the way to like from 67 to like 74, 77 plus.
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.760
And if I bail early, then my whole strategy doesn't work.
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:39.519
And so I need to gain conviction that this is gonna work in a really deep way.
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.800
And so I almost psy up myself with like, okay, it's time to be bullish Bitcoin.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.719
Like, what's all like I'll even post like this week?
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.519
It's like, here's some Bitcoin narratives that could work for bulls this week.
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:54.159
And I almost treat narratives for myself as like a way to kind of hold on to the position.
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:56.719
It's like a way to like be like, oh, I want to sell this right now.
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:58.000
It's like, no, no, no, think about it.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.360
The dollar's going to zero, you know, just like just like repeating those chants and mantras.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:06.000
It's like a almost like a way to like um remain convicted.
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:10.960
And so, and then obviously, like my subconscious brain is you know distributed across Twitter a lot.
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.239
Um, so that's just a byproduct of me doing that to myself.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:20.559
It's yeah, it's it's repeating these mantras that the dollars go to zero is nuts.
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:23.760
How have you done 2020 trading wise 2026?
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:25.360
Um, I've done pretty well.
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.360
Um, but it all turned around on literally that Bitcoin trade uh on Besson.
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:33.280
Um, before that, I was not doing super well, and then I had like a streak that was really sick.
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:50.079
So I had drawn down probably like 15-20 percent of the year before that, and then my portfolio went up like 2.5x in um in about a span of a month on um GoPro hood bitcoin, GoPro, yeah, I hit GoPro too.
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.159
V was one where I actually didn't make as much as I probably should have, just because I think it was it ended up being my tweet.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:56.559
And so then, like I said, I'm like I'm like more hesitant.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.360
Yeah, I'm more hesitant to like really RPL fast.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:00.400
So, like I still will get out.
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.920
I don't want to like lose money just because I tweeted it, but like that, I think that could have been better.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.119
Um, or something like that.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:05.679
And then what else?
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.719
There were some other trades in that.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.480
It was kind of like I had blurred out.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:18.159
It was the first time all year that I focused on trading all day because I have a bunch of other responsibilities now, and so I took some time to be like, hey, it's been kind of shitty year, like let's lock in and see what we can do.
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:25.039
Uh and I so I tried to trade Carvana puts, which was wrong, but I was really online, and so I was online for that like 9 15 a.m.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:32.880
Because I trade like me trading well is really a function of me being like hyper online and paying attention to like news, price action, and like smart people.
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:45.360
And I think the challenge of the last year and a half has been hey, is you want to expand your life into other things and like focus and develop skills elsewhere and drive value to like companies on a more long-term basis, uh, you lose some of that ability to perform really well trading.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.199
And so that's a trade-off I stuff to work with.
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:53.519
I think about your trading style that's hilarious, at least from what I see, like reading through your tweets, is that I feel like you're almost never on a losing trade.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:41:02.000
Like you tweet something that that you like and it either pumps 20 like in an hour, or the next day you're like the most bearish guy in the position ever.
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.039
Like a lot of your Bitcoin, like okay, bitcoin's gonna pop 20% today for no reason.
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.360
Now it pops 20% for Facebook for no reason.
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:09.280
Yeah, that was that was a fun one, too.
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:13.920
I admit someone in that little, I didn't execute that one as well as the first one, so it ended up being less impactful.
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:18.159
But yeah, I mean, I'm I've been I've been a very unwilling to hold drawdowns person.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:22.000
Like, I've always especially because I used to be betting like huge percentages of my book.
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.920
Like, if the price moves, you know, three percent against you, it's like, okay, we're wrong, move on.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.719
Uh, I think it's also a habit learned from trading 40x perps.
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.320
It's probably a bad habit to some extent.
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:33.679
Like, it's the opposite of Jez being like, I'm gonna martingale this all the way down.
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:35.920
I'm like, oh man, this thing went four percent against me.
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.119
Like, goodbye, next idea.
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.119
Kind of like it's either really working or it's not.
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:43.840
Uh, which I could probably um, you know, loosen up a little bit, but that's just how I kind of look at things.
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:58.000
I think you do a really good job of like sidestepping here on the cultural commentary that it's it's like talked about on Twitter all day through little bits and pieces and tweets, but nobody really puts it together and like saves it in one place for everybody to read.
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:11.440
And there's a couple radicalizing things that you've written, and I think the the uh canonical loot and rob article loot and and steel is one that everybody feels.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:14.559
I think like all especially young people, you feel it, you see it, you watch it unfold.
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:16.400
Everyone see when Trump launched a meme coin.
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:23.199
So everyone saw World Liberty Fi, every everyone saw what was happening in the order books for the oil market.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:30.239
But when you like when you read it all stitched together, it's sort of like fuck, this is sort of worse than maybe I gave credit for.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.639
Like what I don't know, when did you sort of realize this?
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:42.239
And do you feel I know it's not the best narrative, but like do you feel pressure as like a relatively young person to like I don't know, loot and rob as like a uh a patriotic thing to do?
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:47.840
No, I don't I don't think uh uh I see that as a very empowering uh primary ethic.
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:56.639
It's more of a commentary, although certainly like look, like I've been in the world of cryptocurrency related things for four years, which is largely a zero-sum game to be playing.
00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:04.400
And I think a lot of people are you know the smartest people in the world are going to become quant traders, even is like a soft, soft version of this where it's like that's a good take, actually.
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:15.440
Like, um, you know, there's actually and and I think you know, it I've a huge respect to people like Elon that are that are you know driving a ton of value, and that's like seems to be their core thing.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:21.440
But even there, it's like I put out yesterday, like dude is like tweeting about memory stock price action and pumping dogecoin at the same time.
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:27.440
Like it may just be for the bit, but there's like some aspect of this in even the most inspiring people you might imagine.
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:31.920
And it just feels like um, I don't know, kind of uh call you.
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:33.199
It's not new, obviously.
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:47.679
Like, I'm not a student of history as much as I should be, but um, there's like kind of game theoretic outcomes here of like, oh, best action is to build, or there's like a Nash where the best action for each individual is just to start skimming off the top.
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:53.679
And um, that feels like kind of where we are, and it's it's hard to say that like that should be something you should do.
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.519
I'm just more pointing out that the incentives and patterns generally are structured that way.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.719
You're obsessed with scamming in the medical industry.
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:10.079
You know, I think I met these individuals who I won't name who were making who were making so much money.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:11.920
And they also kind of screwed me over one time.
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.000
So I'm like, this is also like personal bias, right?
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:19.360
Everything is uh everything something happens to you in the real world and then it shows up in your in your thought patterns.
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:28.719
But um, yeah, I did I did run into a case of that that I found very um you know aggressive, and uh that definitely influenced my thinking on it.
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:35.199
What do you think you'd be doing right now if you were like 20, 20, 26, or like 19, like just graduating high school?
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:36.800
Like what would you be working on right now?
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:38.880
Or like what would you like go into trading?
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:40.000
Would you start taking crypto now?
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.559
Like what do you think the next generation people like should be doing right now?
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:45.840
Like the way I'm spending a lot of time right now working on WAP.
00:44:46.079 --> 00:45:08.079
I think that's really interesting, and also embodies a lot of how you might describe the op the set of options for someone with the goal of achieving things in an economic sense, um, which I think is a goal for a lot of people and was definitely a goal for me to like get my own economic freedom because I always felt um, you know, somewhat hamstrung by it in the sense that uh my parents could be like, hey, like you can't do this.
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.440
Um, we're not gonna support this, or we can't afford this, or whatever.
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:25.280
And so that was like a big and it's so if you if you if you have that as a goal, then I think it's good to be like not go into a traditional job and try to do something on the internet for yourself and build equity in it or build skill in it or build specific knowledge.
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.360
But like what that is is just so changing.
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.239
And I'm probably too old even to understand what the coolest one is.
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.320
Like maybe it's building Roblox games now, right?
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.239
Like, there's some kids going insane on that.
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:46.719
And I think like part of the the the blop thesis is just like, hey, the smartest and most motivated people in the world are gonna try to figure out their own things to do, and it's going to be ever-changing and like an ever-evolving meta.
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:47.760
So it's even beyond crypto.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:49.840
Like, I wouldn't tell someone, hey, go into crypto trading.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:56.880
Like, if you had a real passion for that, I'm sure you could still do well um with starting from from nothing, you know, and you can do it, you can make it do anything as long as you love it.
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:07.840
But I would say it's like, yeah, you got to work on something that is um interesting to you, that's working for yourself, that's probably a little bit new and is hard to explain to old people.
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:10.800
Um hard to explain to people, and that you and that you're gonna have fun with.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:19.920
But obviously, like I'm a at one point I wanted to be a math professor, so you know, you can also go do a do a career of um that's probably under um under support.
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:23.679
I guess math specifically is blown up by AI, but like yeah, I think doing deep study.
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.800
I mean, I don't know, I I can't give any better advice than I still think that uh it's funny.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:32.639
Someone tweeted the other day, like this 2018 Naval advice Naval advice is gonna be stale in about six months.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:39.280
But I think I read through it again, and like that was the most impactful document aside from Taleb books that I read from like a pragmatism standpoint in college.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.960
Um, I can't describe as well as him, but it's like you should read the thread.
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.159
The thread's called How to How to Get Rich Um Without Getting Lucky.
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:47.360
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:58.639
Um, I'm not gonna like you know paraphrasing, but it was I've heard it's it's very similar to this, where it's like build equity, build specific knowledge, study math, game theory, literature, philosophy, broad foundational things.
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:03.360
If you can automate what you're doing at all, then it's not the right thing to be doing, and you're gonna be automated soon.
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:05.119
This was even before the AI stuff.
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:09.920
It was work with people that you really enjoy spending time with that you could imagine working with in 20 years.
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:22.000
It was build up distribution on the internet and make podcasts and make um tweets and make Instagram posts, all the kind of things that I guess are now almost cliche advice, but I still find them to be foundationally true.
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:29.519
Um, and I haven't found um a document with more kind of you know 2020s Lindy advice than that.
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:32.079
Um, what is your math lore?
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:33.920
What is my math what?
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:34.559
Lore.
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:36.559
Like uh I mean, I was just like that.
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:41.039
I was trying to make it to an elite school, um, and I was trying to compete.
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.519
And what I was good at that was relevant toward that was math competitions, things like this.
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.039
I did not make the International Math Olympia, but I was pretty close.
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:57.920
I did some research in high school at a local university that was um collaborative and published on my advisors thing.
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.280
I would spend a little bit of time just I really like playing with puzzles.
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:02.800
I think I find writing to be similar.
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:09.519
And just like it felt creative too, because like when you really get a solve on something, uh it's kind of like that same light bulb that I now get a little bit from trading.
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:17.199
Like the two things that really um bring me joy is like that light bulb moment, whether it's on a trade or a math problem or a writing concept or a sentence you put together.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.119
Or um uh I don't know what I was gonna say for the second one, but that one's really good.
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:27.760
I the second one is is pairing it with creativity, where it's like I made something from this, and a problem solution can even be similar in that way.
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:32.079
And um, I almost wanted to go become a quant afterward because I was like, this is what math can be good for.
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.760
Like I was interviewing at Citadel and shit.
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:37.679
I ended up doing um venture capital instead out of school while I was trading.
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.039
But um yeah, I think um I like the creative aspect of it, TLDR.
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:43.840
I'm curious.
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:52.079
This is kind of like a complete side note, but um, I'm curious what you think how things are going towards like I don't know, towards like 2028 elections.
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.000
Like there's like a couple combining forces here.
00:48:54.079 --> 00:49:03.360
Uh one you write about uh the like eat the rich stuff a decent amount, and also like you know, guy who becomes a billionaire like when it's no longer cool to be a billionaire or like dangerous to become a billionaire.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.679
And then you also wrote this post I liked a lot.
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:26.239
It was um it was quo tweeting Dorcash and you were kind of just like talking about how fried uh the AI, like how deep and psychosis the AI crowd is after making a lot of money, and that you were in a similar spot 2021 with NFTs, you know, NFTs are gonna change the world, they're gonna do this, they're gonna do that, just because you're up like you know, 500 bands or whatever for the first time.
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:40.320
And there's this like mashing of everybody hates the mass population, like underbelly, hates this stuff so much, and then the people that have the most power are particularly deluded by it because they've made so much fucking money.
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:48.480
Brad Gersner, all of these guys are like infinitely generationally paid through this, and it feels like the two things are sort of like clashing a little bit.
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:50.159
Like, how do you think that plays out?
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.239
Yeah, I mean, I have no idea.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:55.440
These are all um, that's an interesting thing to synthesize.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:57.440
Uh, let me think for a moment.
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:21.679
The eat the rich stuff, like all of these political movements and extremisms, and like even like you know, there's been way more anti-Semitism, and there's been way more anti-rich, and there's been way more kind of like nationalist stuff, and then on on the there's way more pro-communism, like all these are kind of classic historical responses to like a more high volatility society, right?
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:26.400
Uh, you know, yeah, not for necessarily the better, probably for the worse, but but these things are not new.
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:33.679
Um, I think in our time, uniquely, because of like the you know, people want to call it like uh peak capitalism or something like this.
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:39.440
Um, but uh like we've assigned every ethic toward money in a lot of ways.
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:47.119
Maybe that's an overly biased statement by my own time spent in crypto, but it certainly feels like money and literally online status.
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:57.440
Um, and so that becomes the focal point both from a way to delude yourself, such as someone who's up a lot of money on a trade might delude themselves about the veracity of what they're saying.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:14.559
And in the same way, I have something to point to as a powerful evil to fight against or to kind of like my friend had a good take um that it's you know, it's hard to have a Marxism and a consumer-first um society because Marxism is based on production and seizing the means of production.
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:18.000
And actually, like our whole value system is not even about producing anything.
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:21.920
Like, again, to bring up Elon, but like he seems to care about what we produce.
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:46.159
But like most people, if you're looking at what they're like flexing or what they're talking about or how they structure their life, like it's more about like I want to be able to consume at the level of that person, and so every kind of movement that's these same historical echoes tends to revolve around um I deserve to consume too, and you are consuming too much, and you're a billionaire, and like and you are the focal point of my anger.
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:49.360
You're the focal point of my anger is good.
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:53.920
I I I don't know what you talk about a lot, and I'm curious how you where you think this is going.
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:59.440
Like um your relationship with like Twitter and social media broadly.
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:17.599
Now, I honestly don't have a great question on on this one, but I I want to call it out something I wrote down that I thought was just like pretty funny because you're talking about we're talking about Instagram and how 70% of IG posts are sponsored ad some an ad in some sort, and this is like a problem because that means there's 30% that's being wasted because they're not already ads.
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:19.920
Is there any like reversing this?
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:34.800
Like I I I feel like a lot of people look back on the like pre-2016 social media algorithm when it was actually it was not an FYP, it was just like a following tab, as like they look back on it with uh like a lot of nostalgia.
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:43.599
But then there's this era, right, where Nikita shows up and he's like, Okay, I'm gonna change the FYP, I'm gonna get rid of all the ads, all the viral shit, you know, the four-note prong, and I'm gonna make it people you follow.
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.440
And I remember being like, bro, I don't fucking want to see the tweets from the people that I follow.
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.320
Give me the viral, like, give me the bait, give me the slop, give me the like topic of the day.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:54.960
Um, how how does that how does that play out?
00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:56.960
And are you like, do you use TikTok?
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:57.840
Are you on Instagram?
00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.199
Like you use these platforms?
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:03.760
I don't have TikTok, I don't have Instagram primarily because no, neither one.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:20.400
Um, obviously, you know, um, I spend way too much time on Twitter, so I uh I could probably have more balance there, but like I just found Instagram like you're entering kind of this like parallel world when you choose to enter a social media application, and like it wasn't a world I was especially interested in participating in.
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:22.719
It felt like more it will, it wasn't helping me make money.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:29.840
It wasn't, you know, I could do okay dating, like I don't need help there, and I and I don't need help um with anything else that it's bringing me.
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.119
So it felt like if I have an app on my phone, I'm gonna spend three hours scrolling on it.
00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:34.960
Like I don't have the self-control to not do so.
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:36.559
And so I had to just like fully cut the same.
00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:39.679
I don't have YouTube on my um on my on my phone either.
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:45.199
I usually like occasionally if I'm like, yo, check out this video from 2018 when I was a young child, right?
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:47.280
But it's like I'm not like up on the YouTube meta.
00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:57.679
Um, and so I think um like using a consumer application, especially a social media network, but also video and stuff, is like just an adversarial game between you and the person who owns it.
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:07.840
And um ads and you know, UGC and whatever other version of ad is just like the most explicit way to make that financialized, and that like, hey, I have this person kind of enraptured in front of the screen right now.
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:09.440
What would you like to do with them?
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:13.760
Or what would you like to buy from their you know consciousness?
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:22.000
Um, and so like that's the end, and and you know, the only time you don't have to be doing that, like first of all, it's like the solved most efficient version, so everything will become that, right?
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:38.320
But second of all, like the reason you didn't have to that before is because you still had some notion of like, hey, we're just trying to grow the user base of this, and so I need to optimize for their utility to some extent as a function of being able to kind of I don't know about exploit, but to kind of you know uh monetize them in the end state.
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:40.320
Um, and so like is there a way to reverse it?
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:46.559
No, I think by using one of these platforms, like obviously Twitter, I have so much fun, I consider it to be like creative, and it also sometimes helps me find ideas to make money.
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:50.559
Um, but like it's probably still like I would probably still be better off not using it, to be honest.
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:55.199
Um, and I think that's mostly true for every consumer application.
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:13.280
Um, and that's one thing that I'm trying to find now, which is is part of WAP and other things, is like what's a way to use those same mechanics to make the incentives better such that it's what's good for the user is also good for um the thing making money.
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:19.039
I think I think that was part of the um that's part of like Substack was like kind of close to being there.
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:28.239
I think if you do paid stuff, uh just payment in general over ads, I I I mean ads are also are also can be good, but but I think that's a good way to like think about those incentives anyway.
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:29.280
I'm rambling a bit at the end here.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:29.840
Oh, it's great.
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:30.960
You mentioned WAP a couple times.
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:46.800
I don't know exactly what your uh involvement is, but I'm curious, like why do you want to work on something and how is it I don't know, like how does it change just the way you interact with like the world when you're solo trading against other people versus like working on some like broader idea?
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.800
And also, secondly, like why what do you like what do you what do you contribute like generally?
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:52.480
Like, why would someone want you to work with them?
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:57.199
Just uh yeah, uh yeah, people why would people answer the um second question?
00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:58.480
Why would people want me to work with them?
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:08.559
I I think I have a good understanding I built in crypto about storytelling and the same thing I kind of talk about on X and like how to frame and and think about things.
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:27.119
I'm also like pretty okay at um giving product feedback or designing products or coming up with ideas for products that um I'm not necessarily the best coder or Figma user, but um I can like help steel steer people's product direction uh as long as I give myself enough time to pay deep attention to it.
00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:28.800
Um, so I can be good at that.
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.360
Um, and then you know, marketing everything else.
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:38.000
I I think I also have some internet version understanding of not the best in the world by any means, but like some ability to to make things happen that way.
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:39.280
And then, you know, what does anyone need help with?
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:46.719
People need help with recruiting, people sometimes early on need help raising money, people other things that I can like kind of help with in in softer ways.
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:51.519
Um yeah, WAP specifically has just been, I don't know, it's like front of mind, it's what I spend the most time on now.
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:52.880
It's like my largest investment.
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:58.400
It's um a team that I really respect a lot, um, especially the founder, and then I've helped recruit people to.
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:33.760
And it's um, I I hope kind of a more pure-pilled kind of version of like this post-AGI world, in which, like, okay, you're gonna either be like slopped out doom scroll, like, you know, vegetable machine with a UBI, or like, hey, is there another way where like let's try to set up a system that takes all the tailwinds from like, you know, ways, you know, um cool and not that people have made their own way on the internet, and try to like broadly grow that and make that accessible for everyone and like kind of find a hopefully like you need some income to like be able to do what you want it.
00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:37.199
I I think like what I was originally gonna be like just do music all this.
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:38.480
I used to make a ton of music in high school.
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:40.000
I was like, I'll just be an ambient music producer.
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:41.760
And I was like, wait, I'm gonna be super broke.
00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:44.639
Uh the same way with uh with not professor ideas, right?
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:52.159
And so it kind of gets ruled out, and so finding ways that people can make money from what they actually want to do is like also a good ethic, um, that I that I really support.
00:57:52.239 --> 00:58:11.679
And so it's kind of a combination of like, hey, this is a way to shape um the world of an ideology that comes from my world of like there's a lot of crypto adjacencies, there's a lot of like people that were like internet hustler culture and like these kind of even sillier parts of the internet, but also there's this like way to build this toward um something that can be a positive way for people to spend their time.
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:15.280
How like Doomer slash optimistic are you about where things are going?
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:16.239
I don't know.
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:19.280
Um, I mean, obviously I can be too doomer on Twitter, Twitter probably impacts that as well.
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:24.480
I try to be an optimist in my daily life, uh, just about where things are going for myself, my family, my friends.
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:28.800
Um, because I think it's probably bad to um live any other way.
00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:32.719
Obviously, sometimes you can get pessimistic, but try to root that out in a more macro sense.
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:35.760
Like, I probably have a pessimist framing of things often.
00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:48.239
Um, but and I think I do, I do often read things that way in a in a more like there's a celeb thing about small systems versus versus large systems, and like I look at the small systems around me and be like a hyper optimist, ideally.
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:50.960
And then on large systems, I I tend to have a cynical band.
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.119
Um, and maybe it'd be better to not have that, you know?
00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:54.719
Um, but that is true of me today.
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.920
By the way, as I'm going back to the social media thing really quick, no Instagram, no TikTok.
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:01.760
I'm realizing as I frame this question, I'm like infinitely fried in my brain.
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:08.400
But the first thing that comes to my mind is like, how do you occupy how do you like occupy your brain like how does he occupy your brains not on fucking TikTok and YouTube?
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.639
Um, but what is your like information flow?
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:14.400
Like, I I can't imagine you have 10 hours of screen time on Twitter all day.
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:15.440
So, like, what do you do?
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:17.760
No, are you doing the rest of the time?
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:22.719
I read a little bit, I text message and group chat a lot.
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:26.320
I'll if I'm in New York, I'll spend a lot of time with people in real life.
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:29.599
Um, just like having conversations or hanging out.
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:34.000
Um, I do definitely spend too much time on Twitter, so I've, you know, we could look at my screen time there.
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:50.880
I look at charts and like raw data of things, and then I spend time um working on either WAP or or occasionally other um smaller companies, just like, and that looks like okay, you might be in Figma, you might be in code, you might be writing, uh, you might be like on on calls.
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:53.360
Um, but I don't know, like uh days definitely get filled.
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.880
I don't think any of us have a problem with that.
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:59.920
Um, I actually would hope that I could get to a place where there's more time spent doing nothing, essentially.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:02.000
I think that's probably a good thing.
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.199
You mentioned earlier you off-ramped a lot of of capital.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:15.119
I'm curious, like, um, once you reach at least a couple levels of you know, crushing it in the markets, like what what do you allocate it in the long-term stuff?
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:24.000
And how and more specifically, how do you approach trading when thinking about like when you flip the switch to uh not blow up, like not lose at all?
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:39.280
Yeah, I mean, the way I've always done this, which is gonna sound so stupid, and you know, people are like gonna be a financial advisor proxy or like what um is I literally just keep all short-term treasuries, like 70% of my portfolio, and then I'll just take big bets on things that I have really strong conviction with everything else.
01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:44.559
And the way that that works is if I blow up the entire big bets book, then I still have 70% left to try again.
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:48.400
Uh, and that's how I've kind of looked at I've looked at my portfolio almost always as bullets.
01:00:48.480 --> 01:01:01.119
Uh, I've kind of been looking at like uh maybe allocating a little bit toward real estate soon, just because I've I've had so much annoyances renting, and so just for a life something, but I'm not super bullish on that because there's like a lot of boomer kind of demo issues.
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:03.519
Dude, the apartment post was nuts, by the way.
01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:04.880
Holy fuck, dude.
01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:05.440
That was crazy.
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.400
I mean, look, I could they came back literally, we were like, okay, 60 game up.
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:10.239
Holy fuck, check this one out.
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:11.599
I'm like, okay, man.
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:13.840
Then they're gonna, he's trying to get a commission, bro.
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:14.559
He'll be set for the year.
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:16.159
My question is who's renting that?
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:27.599
Dude, like groups of three, four dudes, maybe two, maybe one guy who's got really wealthy parents, and they're like, they're family, their parents are family office, and their their parents are like, yeah, find an apartment for our kid, no budget cap.
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:39.119
Or it's like a lot of people that I spend time around where it's like three, four pretty successful dudes who are like, okay, we want to live in a six space, but like I don't really want to pay 70k a month personally for rent or or 80 or whatever.
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:40.400
So, like, let's all split it up.
01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:42.719
We each pay 20, and then those results quickly leave.
01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:44.079
70 is nuts.
01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:46.400
Do you want to trade for the rest of your life?
01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:47.119
I don't know.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:47.920
It's open question.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:49.519
I've actually been having this conversation with friends recently.
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:50.079
Where do you leave?
01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:51.039
Uh no idea.
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:51.760
Interesting.
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.239
You just sort of wake up and you're like, I feel like trading today.
01:01:54.480 --> 01:02:03.360
Yeah, I mean, I there's a there's a part that's like a good addiction and that I love it, and there's a part that's a bad addiction that it's like a high dopamine, um, you know, gambling adjacent um kind of activity to be doing.
01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:11.840
And so it's really trying to look within myself and be like, is the passion for a habit that I have for it like really pure, or is it coming from a place that I can evolve beyond?
01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:15.360
How much worse is like your daily outlook on life when you're losing money in a trade?
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:26.480
Like, are you are you do you like that's definitely there's definitely some volatility as uh ex-girlfriends would tell you there's some volatility it shows up in my in my mood based on whether I'm making or losing money?
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:28.079
Are you like out for account for like a month?
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:29.119
Like, how does it work?
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:35.199
I mean, yeah, it's just like I mean, energy is such an imperceptible thing sometimes, but like am I going to the gym?
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:36.480
Like, am I smiling?
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:39.039
Am I like having fun in my voice?
01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:40.960
Like all these little reads you can pick up.
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:50.079
You know, it's not like I'm like crashing out super great, but maybe I'll be like drinking more and doing uh, you know, doing drugs more or something bad if I'm like in not in a good vibrational state.
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:58.639
And like I definitely have too much allowed PL swimmings, especially because I trade pretty high variant style to affect my vibrations uh week to week.
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:00.239
And so it's obviously better not to that.
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:02.159
I'm sure the best traders in the world don't have that.
01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:03.840
Um, but for me, it definitely shows up.
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:05.119
All right, I'm asking like two things.
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:06.960
I'm gonna give you a rapid fire, I'll let you go.
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:08.159
Um, okay, cool.
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:09.360
What what is your like okay?
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:12.800
This is kind of like a broad weird question, but uh um I don't know.
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:18.159
I think for like a lot of like relatively young, like internet money Twitter people, you're sort of like a symbol of like basic CNZ did it.
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:20.239
So they kind of like yeah, you have some impact.
01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:22.159
What is your like relationship with money like?
01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:34.079
And how has it changed from not have like I don't know, you put the reason you agreed to come on the stream, by the way, is you kind of got you got you got rage baited on Twitter, but you you you you got baited crazy, but I was too I was too hammered.
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:35.440
I met this girl at dinner.
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:38.000
I was she was like, I'm going to Scottsdale after we talked about it.
01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:39.280
I was like, I'll take you to Scottsdale.
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:43.360
And I'm like hammered for 36 hours, and I'm like, okay, time to tweet this.
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.960
And I'll be like, oh, this is terrible.
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:49.360
But um, I mean, it was kind of fun, and then I ended up coming here, so so things all work out for the best.
01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:53.840
Um, I definitely had a very scarcity, like whack relationship with money as a kid.
01:03:54.000 --> 01:04:06.079
Um, not that I was like poor in any capacity, but I just felt like I was I was in a town where like I was in like the middle class part of the town, and there was like a hyper wealthy pocket, um, like 15 minutes from me.
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:14.639
And so I think I talked to a friend from high school recently who had a similar experience where it was like, we would spend all our time at those kids' houses because their parents were old and didn't care and let us like party all the time.
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:24.719
But we would just like become imbued and like, wow, they have this lifestyle, there's like a jealousy, bunch of like negative things that that you shouldn't be thinking about, as well as like when I wanted to go to college, I wanted to go to like an elite private college.
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:27.360
And my parents are like, This is basically gonna destroy our family, dude.
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:28.000
Like, what are you doing?
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:45.920
And I like go like take like my like and I think like that messaging, even as it wasn't, you know, we we ended up getting through it, and my parents worked really hard to like help me, and I paid for part of it, and it was it was good, but like that whole vibration around money really scared me, as well as like I just didn't like having like I think there's there's Kanye lied about it.
01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:47.599
Um, I definitely was overly focused on it.
01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:49.039
Like, you probably should have less focus.
01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:54.239
I think, and then now afterward, there was a period where I was like overly too into spending money.
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:56.159
I mean, that still can come up sometimes.
01:04:56.320 --> 01:05:08.239
Um, I think probably the best relationship with money is to not have too much attachment to it in like a scarcity or spending way, um, and to hopefully just be acquiring capital for purposes that are beyond the acquisition of more capital.
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:13.440
Um what's the most retarded thing you bought when you like got it back for the first time?
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:21.440
I mean, the first the first time I ever got money in college, I just started buying a bunch of like those terrible Balenciaga shoes.
01:05:21.679 --> 01:05:37.840
I would have like this only like a retarded shoe collection, and I'm and that's why I started taking Uber Blacks everywhere too in college, and I'd be like, Yeah, so basically I made a bunch of money and I got like six different pairs of Balenciaga shoes that are looked super distressed and a bunch of expensive jeans, and I take Uber Blacks everywhere and go to the club.
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:41.199
And that was like a classic kind of first money vibe.
01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:42.639
Um, that was very stupid.
01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:43.519
Um D.
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.760
Gills wants to know about the Cadillac story.
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:48.000
Oh, dude, here's another dumb one.
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:50.239
And uh shout out ZQ if you're listening to this.
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:55.599
But um, I was like a little buzzed, and my friend, I was like, dude, having a driver full time is so dope.
01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:56.719
Like, I should do that.
01:05:56.800 --> 01:05:59.760
And my friend has like two escalades that he owns with a driver.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:01.760
He's like, dude, you can buy this one for me right now.
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:02.880
And I was like, say less.
01:06:02.960 --> 01:06:05.039
Like, I'll buy this escalate from you tonight.
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:06.320
So I like do that.
01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:07.760
I wire him the next day.
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:09.519
And now I'm not a very organized person.
01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:14.559
I actually recently was able to just get um uh assistant to help with that.
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:16.400
But I um I was like, okay, great.
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:18.000
I have uh this escalate now.
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:18.400
Now what?
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:20.480
He's like, Well, you gotta do the title and come pick it up.
01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:22.960
And I was like, Oh, that sounds like a lot of work, dude.
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:24.800
Like, I don't know about all this.
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:26.159
So I ended up leaving it.
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:28.400
He's like, Okay, I'm gonna drop it off you in this parking garage.
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:31.440
It stays in this New York parking garage for like two months.
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:34.639
The battery freezes, at which point he's like, dude, you gotta go get it.
01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:35.760
Like, I'm getting calls.
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:41.760
It's like a 25,000, not 25,000, 2500 bill to um to take it out of the garage.
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:43.760
I take it out of the garage, drive it back to ZQ.
01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:45.119
I'm like, dude, you deal with this.
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:47.440
I don't wanna, I don't even want to think about this anymore.
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.880
And so now to this day, uh, he still has it somewhere, I guess.
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:58.880
I still paid him for it, and I've never used it, but uh that's just and I guess it's it's depreciating every year, but um, I do own a car.
01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:02.800
That was good.
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:04.239
How's the assistant?
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:06.079
She's great, it's really awesome.
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:08.639
I think um I feel super excited for that.
01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:20.000
It just was like a couple weeks ago, and um I yeah, I won't talk to anybody, but um but she's dope, and I'm I'm excited, just like, hey, like, because I'll come up with threads a lot and then not kind of finish them out.
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:32.480
So it's like help doing that, help getting organized, and then help just like I think um I've been lazy to like you know, this part of it is self-discipline, and then part of it is just setting up better infrastructure for yourself, and I think I'm working on both.
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:33.440
That's pretty good.
01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:35.199
All right, I got like five rapid fire, I'll let you go.
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:42.880
Number one, I have to ask, like, air mask question how you control or you can be serious, but uh I'm actually curious, like, how much do you need to retire?
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:45.280
And is there actually a number to retire at 2026?
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.599
No, no, this is such a dumb meme, dude.
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:55.679
You could be like, there's there's this line from um from uh office space, this is a classic kind of 90s or maybe early 2000s movie.
01:07:55.920 --> 01:08:02.079
Um, and the dude's like, let me think through what the line is, but it's like he's like, Man, I really wish I had a million dollars.
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:04.719
And the guy's like, Oh man, so like you could do what?
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:08.320
And he's like, dude, so I could just sit around, not have to go to work, I wouldn't do anything.
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:11.599
The other guy's like, Man, my cousin's broke, he don't do shit.
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:15.519
And um, I think people have the wrong view of freedom in that way.
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:22.960
Like, obviously, money can be good if it depends how you define it yourself, but like you don't need trying to get to a number is something I thought about at that time too, like long ago.
01:08:23.119 --> 01:08:24.960
Just you're never gonna get to the number, first of all.
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:29.520
You know, some dude like out there is just ran up a hundred million dollars, and they're like, Oh man, I really gotta get to a B.
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:31.680
You know, there's no end to that kind of treadmill.
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.359
Uh and B, like you can.
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:46.720
I mean, obviously, people like living in in economic scarcity is makes everything harder and it's challenging, but like people, I think, mostly, except in some cases, have have the ability to like do what they should do, or it anyway.
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:48.720
Um, and so that would be the the way I look at it.
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:50.479
That was that was that was a really good one.
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:52.720
Uh who's the most impressive person you've ever met?
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:54.880
Hmm.
01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:57.680
This is a good question.
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:01.039
I mean, there's a few angles to this.
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:01.920
There is.
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:07.680
I think I mean there's like a most impressive this guy, June, I met in college.
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:23.920
Um, was the most there's a few angles I'll go with it in different dimensions, was the most impressive person I ever met in terms of just raw intellect, where I would hang out with this guy, and I thought like I was okay, math, and he would just be able to like distill any concept immediately, solve math problems, two people, three hours and two minutes.
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:34.239
Like his brain just like made the world make sense so much faster by an exponential amount than anyone ever seen that I was like taken aback um to some extent.
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:39.119
Um, and then beyond that, I'm looking for someone that I'm really just impressed with.
01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:42.560
Um like I'll I'll name another anonymous friend.
01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:50.560
Uh, I won't name them, but I think it's just like uh something that really impresses me is when people have a super calmness about them as well as peace to them.
01:09:50.720 --> 01:09:54.319
I think that's one of the most impressive things you can have, and and something that I'd like to work on myself.
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:56.640
So so this other person I think has that.
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:59.359
Pretty two pretty good answers.
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:01.760
What um what do your hometown friends think of you?
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:03.039
I don't know.
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:06.319
I ran into my hometown friend in uh Arizona this weekend.
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:10.000
Uh, and he was just like, dude, it seems like you're having a good time.
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:11.600
What do you what do you even do?
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:17.840
Like, what's is that is that really uh, you know, my friend said that's your Twitter account.
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:19.840
You know, is this what are you doing with this?
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:21.199
Like uh you live in New York.
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:23.279
I think I haven't kept up with most of them.
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:25.760
The ones that I have kept up with, I mean it's the same as it ever was.
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:32.319
I think some of the best friendships, like uh with with with friends from high school, never change regardless of what goes on in each person's life.
01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:35.680
All right, last one, and I'll ask you some courage and motivation, and then we'll we'll call it.
01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:42.079
Um if you're like 30 out of 35 with a billion dollars, like infinite money, what is the optimal place to live?
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.760
Wait, give me a sec, I gotta give me uh five seconds.
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:46.640
Okay, you're good.
01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:54.000
Okay, I'm back.
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:59.680
Um, you're like 35 billion dollars infinite money, what is like the optimal place to live?
01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:01.920
Like peak, peak, peak, peak place to live.
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.560
I don't know.
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:03.840
I mean, it's obviously personal.
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:04.720
Like, do you like skiing?
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:05.600
Live in a ski town.
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:06.880
Uh, do you like uh surfing?
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:08.000
You know, live by the beach.
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:10.560
Uh I've I think multipolar is fun.
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:14.159
I've been trying to uh find a place in Miami to rent.
01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:16.479
I've been unsuccessful so far, but I want to add that as a place.
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:18.640
I spend time mostly between New York and California.
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:20.239
I think New York is amazing in the US.
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:22.239
Outside the US, I'm like undertraveled.
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:27.600
I love Tokyo and a lot of other spots in Asia and Europe and and these things, but um, I don't know.
01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:28.960
Like it's nice to live.
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:32.000
I think I've gone back and forth of like US versus non.
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:41.920
Everything's personal, like it's nice to live somewhere where like I grew up in the culture, you know, the USA is amazing, obviously, and like um I speak the language, but um, you know, I think that's an answer for everyone for themselves.
01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:51.520
Uh I think having a few places that you bounce between is is maybe underrated by old school boomerism and probably overrated by by our gen, but but I do like it.
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:53.039
Old school boomerism.
01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:54.800
Um, dude, I appreciate you doing it, man.
01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:57.199
I I wasn't sure you would ever get the the the basic.
01:11:57.680 --> 01:11:58.800
It's been a long time since you did one.
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:00.560
So it's been bro, it's been fun to watch.
01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:01.359
Jenny Run.
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:03.199
I think you're you're definitely one of the better posters on the app.
01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:08.560
And I think you uh I appreciate when you come out and like you post what you're in, talk about why you made a trade, why it played out a certain way.
01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:13.680
It's been I don't know, a lot of people in the chat, like uh myself included, really enjoy following it.
01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:20.479
It's kind of a brutal sign-off, but look, there are a lot of people that are trading that have not done as well as you have, or they're relatively new, they haven't really figured it out yet.
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:25.520
And even outside of trading, just like young people in the world trying to position themselves, like what do you do?
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:29.520
And even like information flow-wise, how do you position yourself?
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:37.359
Like, what do you do over the next couple years where it does sort of have this overarching, you know, loot and rob type of long degeneracy, whatever it is, type of feeling.
01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:39.439
So I'm curious, like what I don't know.
01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:40.720
Um, thanks for doing it.
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:49.439
And what do you tell people that that they should do, or how do they like find their thing to do well and position themselves for for where things are going?
01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:51.279
Well, uh, thank you very much.
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:53.039
Uh I'll return compliments back to you.
01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:56.880
I've been uh very impressed with how you kind of just like kept the consistency of this show.
01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:02.399
It feels like you're um kind of the big media presence that come out of our whole space, honestly, in uh in a in this format.
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:05.520
So um super sick and uh glad you have me on.
01:13:05.680 --> 01:13:11.439
Um what I would say to that question, I mean, look, you're never gonna win at a video game if you don't really fuck with playing the video game.
01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:15.439
Nobody got insanely good who didn't really enjoy Call of Duty.
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:19.439
I think if you're really young, you should like spam a bunch of shit.
01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:20.880
Like, don't get too locked in.
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:22.079
Like, try this, try that.
01:13:22.159 --> 01:13:24.239
It's like max shots on goal to find something.
01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:34.000
And then if you get any early signs of success, plus even better than an early sign of success, it's just an early sign that you get addicted in like a good way, then just press, press, press.
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:38.560
Uh, and I think like that's how I look at a lot of like like things are done with experimentation, right?
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:55.439
Like, I had tried doing music production, and then I had tried doing like, okay, I'll do math research, and then I had tried being like, okay, I'm a blogger, and then I'm like, okay, I do venture capital, and I do poker, and then like eventually, like, yeah, I just got lucky, like early success in this NFTs thing, and I really enjoyed it.
01:13:55.520 --> 01:13:57.680
And I was like, okay, like press, press, press, let's see what happens.
01:13:57.760 --> 01:13:59.680
And then eventually you want to compound on something, right?
01:13:59.840 --> 01:14:12.159
But I think you have, if you're really young, you have so many, so much time more than you think, so much optionality more than you think, and you should take advantage of it because you can help discover for yourself and not have to choose what what is cool.
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:14.880
Dude, despite the Twitter presence, you're sneaky optimists man.
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:15.680
It's refreshing.
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.319
You are I try to be, you know.
01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:20.960
I the Twitter is uh that's a whole other persona, you know.
01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:21.680
At your heart, man.
01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:23.039
You are basic, dude.
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:25.840
Absolute pleasure until uh twenty thirty when we get a part two.
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:26.960
Thanks again for coming on, dude.
01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:27.359
Cheers.
01:14:27.439 --> 01:14:28.159
Thanks for adding peace.
01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:28.960
See ya.