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00:00:10.320Hello and welcome to the listeners of the This Month in FinTech podcast.
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00:00:13.119I'm so happy that you could all join today.
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00:00:23.760And I'm very excited to have our guest today, Ximena Aleman, co-founder and co-CEO of Prometeo.
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00:00:26.320Hi Ximena, how are you today?
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00:00:27.839Hi Sasha.
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00:00:29.600Nice to be here.
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00:00:30.559Very glad.
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00:00:31.920Thanks for having me.
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00:00:33.439Happy to join this conversation.
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00:00:34.000Great.
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00:00:37.039And where in the world are you dialing in from today?
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00:00:41.920Well, today I'm dialing in from my hometown, Montevideo, in Uruguay.
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00:00:42.880Awesome.
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00:00:48.000I'm very excited that you're my first international guest.
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00:00:55.119So looking forward to getting into what you do and also a little bit about what's happening in LATAM.
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00:01:05.359So to kick it off, initially we met back in 2022 when I was on the investment team at Fin Capital.
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00:01:16.319And having previously worked at Cuovo and Plaid, I really liked Prometeo because you seem to be doing a really, really hard thing.
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00:01:35.599When I was working at Plaid, I was in sales and it was very easy to confidently say that Plaid has an API that does a really great job of connecting to consumer bank accounts across the US so that their clients can power a number of use cases.
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00:01:46.239For example, people can authenticate their Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Chase account in order to connect to Venmo or Cash App and send money to their friends and family.
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00:01:56.879Or consumers can authenticate their bank accounts in order to put money into their public.com, stash, m1, crypto.com, Coinbase, or Benjamin accounts.
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00:02:18.000But when a prospect would ask if our API could connect to bank accounts globally, or if they if they could use our API to authenticate business and corporate accounts, I started to get nervous that I was going to lose that sale because it's really hard.
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00:02:27.520So I'd love to hear from you as to like how you got into this and a little bit about how it happens.
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00:02:40.080Well, you know, I I wouldn't say that um how we got to what what we are right now is um completely straightforward, you know.
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00:02:54.960And I think it totally makes sense for a PLAD to be US-centric as it is, you know, because the US is such a large, fragmented market that of course it's uh broad enough, you know, large enough.
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00:03:02.639Um uh the thing is that like I always think that the context like really frames how we see the world, you know.
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00:03:07.840And so I imagine that for SAC, like building plat, it's of course US US.
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00:03:12.400Um uh but I I was born in Uruguay and based in Montevideo.
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00:03:14.879We are 3.5 million people here, you know.
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00:03:16.719So it's a very small market.
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00:03:19.439Uh my co-founders are also from Uruguay.
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00:03:27.919Uh, we sit between Argentina and Brazil, for those that perhaps are not that familiarized with where Uruguay is in the world.
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00:03:30.000Uh, but it's a really, really small market.
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00:03:37.360Um, and so um my background is uh communications and and and marketing.
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00:03:45.520Um and so how somehow, like after an MBA, like I got to the fintech space, you know, and actually Prometeo is my third startup.
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00:04:01.759Um, but from the previous ones, the the two previous ones with my co-founders, we understood the lack of API infrastructure in Uruguay, you know, because the first uh two startups were more based to like attending the local market problems.
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00:04:26.720Um and then when we got to the idea of Prometeo, like building this single API across uh countries, across financial institutions, um like it was very um like we understood very firsthand that this was an issue in Uruguay, but at the same time, we understood very firsthand that this was an issue across countries, you know.
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00:05:03.600And because Uruguay is such a small market, it made sense to go pan regional from scratch, you know, and so we started thinking about Prometeo as this connectivity layer, unifying financial infrastructures across countries, not just Uruguay or Uruguay and Argentina, which is like the Rio de la Plata space, um, or uh perhaps the South Cone, as you would say with Chile, but actually thinking, okay, uh, which are the problems across the region uh and which are the things that need to be interconnected across the region, you know?
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00:05:14.639And so you have like I in in Latin America, like these are global corporations coming to operate to LATAM, you know, like as they operate across the globe.
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00:05:22.399But usually when they think about LATAM, they are thinking about Brazil and Mexico, and that's it.
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00:05:25.920You know, or Brazil or Mexico, and that's it.
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00:05:31.040Or perhaps, perhaps uh Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia, you know.
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00:05:39.600And and it's it's like uh it makes sense, you know, it's sound how they are thinking about it because it's in terms of market share.
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00:05:45.199Um, but actually there are opportunities in more than 25 other countries, you know.
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00:05:58.800And so the idea was what if we can uh take out the friction, you know, if we can simplify the access to all of these markets uh with a swift single integration across them.
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00:06:23.360And and I would say that that was the insight that drove Prometeo since the beginning, like thinking about this as a single stop shop for banking API connectivity across the uh the Americas, initially Latin America banks, but uh since uh well over the last two years we have been building product and and um and connectivity uh across the US as well.
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00:06:38.879Uh, because it makes sense again, you know, uh we are in a very um like it it's two regions that are interconnected, very close, um commercial-wise, you know, uh, but at the same time it's still fragmented.
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00:06:41.120And so it was the same logic all over again.
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00:06:42.639Uh, we should unify.
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00:06:43.600Excellent.
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00:06:52.000And for the listeners, so that we can bring it to life a little bit, can we talk about some of the clients and how they're using your API?
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00:06:56.879Um, so some really impressive logos on publicly on your website.
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00:06:59.839So you're working with City, JP Morgan, Santander.
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00:07:07.360Did they utilize your your API so that their clients can auth vendors before transferring payments?
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00:07:09.519Or like how does the flow work?
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00:07:20.160Yes, um, so we work with large financial institutions and corporations um basically in the financial space.
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00:07:33.120Um how we help them is uh through our API, they can automate access to information, validation of accounts, and payments across the countries that we where we operate.
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00:07:37.920Uh as you mentioned, we work uh with two of the five largest banks in the world.
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00:07:43.360We also work uh with the largest uh consortium of financial institutions in the world.
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00:07:55.759Uh we work uh with the most important uh financial companies in Latin America, uh with the Mexican ACH, uh, with um BCP, which is the largest bank in Peru.
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00:08:11.600Uh we work with Rapi, with Mercado Libre, um like to tell uh some of them, um, but mostly trying to help them to automate the access to information and payments uh across financial institutions in in LATAM and the US.
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00:08:13.439Excellent.
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00:08:41.679And I know it's your secret source, and that's allowed you to like build this epic company that you have built, but thinking back to the days when I was at Platt and it was hard enough to connect to the 14,000 banks and credit unions within the US, let alone the international and corporate bank accounts, which is a whole different kettle of fish in terms of password type, MFA, etc.
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00:08:50.320Can you give us a little peek behind the curtain as to how do you connect with these like bigger business accounts?
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00:08:51.679Yeah.
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00:09:04.240And so I would say that coming from uh an emerging market, uh you create like this DNA, which is uh very adaptable uh and flexible.
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00:09:21.519And so I would say that something that uh helped us out uh since the beginning was that we were able to manage different types of connectivity in different countries with different financial institutions.
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00:09:23.919And so we were very adaptable, you know.
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00:09:33.360Um and so let's go back to when we started, 2018, 2019 actually, uh, there weren't open APIs across Latin America.
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00:09:46.960Okay, and so we were doing uh everything very centered around screen scraping, reverse engineering, uh, and that was like the core of our tech capabilities, and we were excellent at it, you know.
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00:10:12.080Like I would say that it was one of the highlights of Prometeo, uh, the the capabilities that we have uh doing that, you know, and that was and they were very helpful because they turned us into a relevant player in the space back then, you know, but then uh open banking um appeared in Brazil, you know, and it was such a success.
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00:10:18.320And so uh all of a sudden we had like, okay, uh, we can connect to APIs, so let's connect to those APIs.
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00:10:20.720How fast can we integrate with these APIs?
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00:10:50.000And so now we have the experience of APIs in Brazil, but we keep integrating in uh the other emerging markets through screen scraped uh integrations, but at the same time, like we have like these uh customers coming to us asking us to provide these use cases for them, and so we have uh an increasingly large demand, you know, and more traction uh and more volume.
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00:10:58.000And all of a sudden, like, okay, we have this volume that we can offer to these companies, uh, these financial institutions.
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00:11:06.960So perhaps they are willing to open the API, their their APIs for us because this can become a new revenue stream for them.
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00:11:18.960Uh, and so now we are knocking at the doors of the smaller financial institutions in LATAM, like the smaller ones, not the large ones, but the smaller ones, and telling them, okay, like this is coming, this is happening, you know.
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00:11:25.679And we have like all of these uh customers that are using our screen scraped, reverse engineered APIs.
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00:11:27.919Are you willing to open your APIs for us?
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00:11:52.320And some of them said yes, you know, and so we were able to create like this virtual cycle of moving the demand that we had from screen scraped APIs to open APIs, uh, or not open like open banking APIs, but actually APIs that were open for us because they were closed, but the financial institution uh was willing to open them like a bilateral agreement.
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00:12:17.519Uh in some other cases, like we we had like the consent to screen scraped from other financial institutions that didn't have like their APIs, they knew they wouldn't open APIs, but they said, okay, like I can somehow like certify your screen scraping, you know, and so like and all of a sudden like we were having like these multiple layers of connectivity and supporting all of them.
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00:12:25.279Um and and that allowed us to have like the scale that we have been able to build.
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00:12:33.519It's really interesting that the things that have happened in the US are now happening in Latam.
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00:12:38.000So, like when I was early at Quovo, same story.
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00:12:41.200We were using various methods to connect.
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00:12:47.679Um, screen scraping was like a bit of a dirty word in the US, so we like tried to uh move away from that.
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00:13:00.080But as the volume started and the banks were realizing this was a revenue stream for them and it was what their users were demanding, they started to open their APIs.
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00:13:12.320But then where it was a smaller institution and they may not have a wall yet, then they would whitelist us so that we could more easily get the data for our customers.
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00:13:13.279Yeah.
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00:13:25.120Yeah, I I would say that talking with players from other spaces, like the same space but in in other places, um, like you you share same experiences.
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00:13:29.679It's been like the same path from I would say for all of us.
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00:13:48.799Uh and and and it it's yeah, it's always amazing to see like the same kind of experiences happening, uh, despite like having faced the issues in in very different regions with different um uh uh capabilities and and and tech stacks, you know.
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00:13:53.679And like in Europe, the the experience is the same with players that are building API infrastructure.
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00:14:02.399You know, we've talked with uh well other companies uh doing that this since 2015 or so, and it's the same.
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00:14:04.240And it feels curious.
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00:14:08.559It's exciting, it's um opening a lot more opportunities.
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00:14:13.360Um and switching gears now to your series A.
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00:14:22.240So huge congratulations, um, led by Antler with participation from PayPal Ventures, Samsung Next, and others.
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00:14:26.000Um, really exciting and impressive fundraise.
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00:14:28.960So, like I'm very, very happy for you.
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00:14:32.720What was the fundraising process like for you?
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00:14:38.480And it's a bit of a controversial statement, but do you think it would have been different if you were a man?
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00:14:43.759Very straightforward.
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00:14:50.639Uh okay, um uh okay, let's uh get uh to it.
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00:15:10.960Um I'll uh I'll I'll go over the the process uh itself and then I'll I'll uh address how I feel about uh the gender gap in in funding and how it's to fundraise as a um female Latan-based um and uh CEO.
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00:15:13.360Um okay, so it was hard.
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00:15:15.600It was very hard uh the fundraise.
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00:15:41.120Uh back when we started in 2020 to fundraise, uh actually I I we were thinking about fundraising in the second second half of 2023, and we closed a major deal um at the beginning of 2023, um like between the end of the year and and the beginning of the year, and like all of a sudden, like the metrics uh were in a very, very good place.
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00:15:48.399The year had closed very good, plus like this new deal, and like everything was starting to come around, you know.
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00:15:58.159Like we we knew that we were going to fundraise as you say during 2023, but it was about like which was the better window of opportunity for us.
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00:16:22.559And so um like we started to have like this um inbound from from from VCs, you know, from um players like asking about metrics and asking like I I usually have like these sort of catch-ups with different uh investors, you know, just to be around and understand where they are and give them like a glimpse on on where we are, which is sort of standard.
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00:16:34.799Uh and so I had a couple of these and they were like really interested in what we were doing, and like they started asking for more information, and so all of a sudden, like it seemed like it was the time.
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00:16:38.480And so we decided to let's do it right right now, you know.
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00:16:42.559It was like a conversation with um the the other investors.
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00:16:48.799Uh, let's go, um, let's prepare the data room, the pitch deck, like let's have everything in place.
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00:16:56.320And so this was perhaps early April, um, between March and early April.
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00:17:12.160Um and then I kick off like the fundraise, but with this smaller list of I would say, um, yeah, like um your favorite could add value.
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00:17:13.759The A players, you know.
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00:17:29.839Um and so we were like April, uh sending information, meetings, speech, um uh partners get involved, you know, like going, um introducing customers, and all of a sudden it was like the crypto winter.
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00:18:04.559And everything like started to froze, and you could see like how everything was becoming like more delayed and more difficult, and like all of these players like saying no and starting to say, like, okay, we are deciding not to move forward with new investments in LATAM, and like um perhaps not now, like and and so I had scheduled like um um a trip to New York, like to meet some VCs.
00:18:04.559 -->
00:18:11.839Um, and I met with one of my investors, like the Cometa led our Series A, our Series C.
00:18:11.839 -->
00:18:17.839Uh it's like uh I would say the most important FinTech VC in Mexico right now.
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00:18:22.640Great portfolio, uh symmetric, uh connect habits.
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00:18:24.079So like they are great.
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00:18:25.039Uh I love them.
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00:18:26.720Uh shout outs to Cometa.
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00:18:46.000Um but then uh like I was there and we were having breakfast, uh, and so uh um Pepe José Bolaños, he he tells me, like, Sime, I want you to understand that what we will do will be very, very hard.
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00:19:00.319Like, you are now fundraising at the worst moment in the market for all of the for all of the ones that are working at this moment in this space, like this is the toughest time ever.
00:19:00.319 -->
00:19:06.559And wow, for me, it was like, okay, let's move on.
00:19:06.559 -->
00:19:08.720Next meeting, you know?
00:19:08.720 -->
00:19:14.000And so yeah, yeah, we wouldn't we couldn't back down, you know.
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00:19:20.079It was uh um, and so we continued fundraising, and we have like great metrics.
00:19:20.079 -->
00:19:23.519Um, we were growing very, very good.
00:19:23.519 -->
00:19:26.960Um, most of our revenue was coming from the US.
00:19:26.960 -->
00:19:35.359Um, like it was from these very large customers, uh, with great avenues of expansion into each of the accounts.
00:19:35.359 -->
00:19:40.880Um and all of a sudden, like I was just getting no's, you know.
00:19:40.880 -->
00:19:44.160And it was one after the other, after the other.
00:19:44.160 -->
00:19:46.000Uh, it was really hard.
00:19:46.000 -->
00:19:50.960Um, but at the same time, like I knew that I had something very, very valuable.
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00:19:53.119Like this was a great asset.
00:19:53.119 -->
00:19:57.039Um like that's what I believe about Prometeo, you know.
00:19:57.039 -->
00:20:05.359But uh especially back then, like everything seemed like if this wasn't the context, there wouldn't be a no for this.
00:20:05.680 -->
00:20:06.640Totally, yeah.
00:20:06.640 -->
00:20:15.680I remember I remember seeing your deck and the the logos, the revenue, and I was like, in a different climate, this is a no-brainer for a Series A.
00:20:15.680 -->
00:20:20.319But just really unfortunate timing that the crypto winter was happening.
00:20:20.319 -->
00:20:28.880And during that time, a lot of VCs were like pulling back on risk in every type of the every sense.
00:20:28.880 -->
00:20:39.279And unfortunately, uh back then, female fintech fintech founders had 2% venture funding of the whole market, so very low.
00:20:39.279 -->
00:20:42.640And then during that crypto winter, it went down to 1%.
00:20:42.640 -->
00:20:45.680So we went backwards during that time.
00:20:45.680 -->
00:20:49.680So it's even more impressive that you you were able to raise.
00:20:49.680 -->
00:20:50.799So congratulations.
00:20:51.119 -->
00:20:51.839Yeah, thank you.
00:20:51.839 -->
00:20:52.319Thank you.
00:20:52.319 -->
00:20:57.680I remember seeing like the statistic that statistic, and it was like overwhelming, you know.
00:20:57.680 -->
00:21:08.559Um, and and uh and like I remember feeling not that alone, you know, uh like doing this uh against all odds against all odds.
00:21:08.559 -->
00:21:28.160Um but yeah, uh I would say that by September uh we were in a different place, you know, like uh we had already um like signed the termships and uh we moved on to the final phase of the of the round, which is documents and due diligence.
00:21:28.160 -->
00:21:35.279Um and and it turned out to be in a great place with great great players uh backing us, very happy about the outcome.
00:21:35.279 -->
00:21:36.559It was tough, you know.
00:21:36.559 -->
00:21:45.599Uh it uh we needed to be very resilient and and persevere on what we were doing, uh, but we were able to do so.
00:21:45.599 -->
00:21:59.759Um and then uh I would say to the second part of your question, uh which I think um it's always there, I would say that of course I've had like different reactions to me.
00:21:59.759 -->
00:22:11.119Uh some not as polite as I would expect, you know, or like m perhaps more gender gender-driven, you know, like I would feel uh that there was an issue there.
00:22:11.119 -->
00:22:18.559I wouldn't say that that's the case, you know, like that's not how I feel whenever I enter to pitch at ABC like anywhere.
00:22:18.559 -->
00:22:25.519Yeah, you know, like not in San Paulo, not in Mexico or in Nueva York and San Francisco.
00:22:25.519 -->
00:22:27.519Uh that's not the case.
00:22:27.519 -->
00:22:32.559But definitely I think that there is a systemic problem, you know.
00:22:32.559 -->
00:22:50.000Uh and and like we cannot not like we can it's obvious, it's not something that we cannot recognize, you know, like because the statistics are there, and because whenever I enter to a room, I I can notice that I'm the only female, you know.
00:22:50.000 -->
00:23:01.680Um wherever I go to a like a large event involving investors, involving fundraising, diners, like uh I I would say that we are less than 10%, always.
00:23:01.680 -->
00:23:07.839You know, and so uh the reality is there and we get less funding, you know.
00:23:07.839 -->
00:23:34.160Um and what I would say that I've always been very uh like uh very um or or I've become more self-aware, you know, it's about uh which is which are the the the small interactions that uh uh provide less credibility, you know, because I think that that's where where the issue is right now.
00:23:34.160 -->
00:23:37.680It's not about the company, it's not about the asset that you're creating.
00:23:37.680 -->
00:23:44.960It's not like they are not like they are not believing you, you know, it's not it's not about that.
00:23:44.960 -->
00:23:58.799But I think that there are third gender things, you know, like about how the other person believes a CEO is embodied.
00:23:58.799 -->
00:24:08.000You know, if I see you, do you do I believe that you are the CEO that will uh push this company to a unicorn?
00:24:08.000 -->
00:24:13.680And and I think that that's the question where I I struggle to answer, you know.
00:24:13.680 -->
00:24:22.240Uh like I don't know if I really portray for them that CEO, though I believe that I am the one, you know.
00:24:22.240 -->
00:24:31.279Uh, but it's like which are the signals that that embody that CEO and if I can project that for them.
00:24:32.160 -->
00:24:33.599Yeah, I totally agree.
00:24:33.599 -->
00:24:47.039And I think that a lot of it is unconscious bias, it's no one's fault, it's conditioning that we've had over, you know, hundreds of years of seeing men be that billion-dollar CEO.
00:24:47.039 -->
00:24:56.799And my belief is that that there's a lot of things that are out of our control and that are slowly getting better as we progress as a society.
00:24:56.799 -->
00:25:04.960But one of the things that's within our control is having more women around the investment committee decision-making table.
00:25:04.960 -->
00:25:19.359Um, that's one of the reasons personally that I went and became a VC so that I could back more women and I backed female, I backed five female co-founders over the seven deals I did in two years at Fin Capital.
00:25:19.359 -->
00:25:35.920Um, but I would just really encourage everyone that's listening um to get into Ventor if you um are thinking about it and you're a woman, and please send me if you would like any help and and if I could be helpful.
00:25:35.920 -->
00:25:37.759Um okay, great.
00:25:37.759 -->
00:25:39.599So we don't have that much time left.
00:25:39.599 -->
00:25:44.640So moving on to the Latam fintech scene.
00:25:44.640 -->
00:25:54.319So um I lived in Mexico last year when I was changing over my visa in order to come move back to New York, and new bank was everywhere.
00:25:54.319 -->
00:26:01.759Um and now I've seen that they're coming to the US, and I would I'm curious on your thoughts of how they're gonna go.
00:26:01.759 -->
00:26:14.319Um, just considering so many other international neo banks have tried the US, it's pretty timely considering there was a Wall Street Journal article last week that Monzo is retreating again from the US.
00:26:14.319 -->
00:26:18.160Um, N26 left, Revolute isn't doing that much here.
00:26:18.160 -->
00:26:30.799So, do you think that Chime and Current are gonna continue to be the dominant US players, or will New Bank have a chance considering that they can serve the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking populations of the US?
00:26:31.200 -->
00:26:34.400And I think that that's the key, you know, the Spanish-speaking population.
00:26:34.400 -->
00:26:45.039Uh, and I think that if they are able to replicate the success that they have had in Brazil, um I have no doubts about their capabilities of execution, you know.
00:26:45.039 -->
00:26:54.880Uh, I think it's one of the things the companies that have executed better consistently in Latin America uh for years.
00:26:54.880 -->
00:27:32.640And and and and what we see is the result of a very, very um uh excellent execution, similar to Mercado Libre, you know, like the companies that made it, the Latin companies that make it to IBO, they are wow companies, you know, uh because it's not easy, you know, and once that you are in the space like trying to replicate that and you witness how difficult it is firsthand, you create um uh uh well uh a level of admiration for those those teams, those CEOs that are able to accomplish that.
00:27:32.640 -->
00:27:55.359Um I think that um having like uh the the experience from um David Veles and both Marcos Alperin, um I the the like uh it's uh it's very epic, you know, uh and and I think that it's not epic just because of the result, but because actually they've built very solid companies.
00:27:55.359 -->
00:28:17.680Um and uh the customer uh uh support levels that Nubank have has it's recognized for is because they've changed uh the expectation about financial institutions in Latin America, across countries, you know, like they are widely recognized as uh uh uh as excellence.
00:28:17.680 -->
00:28:23.119Uh as it's a brand that embodies customer support excellence, which I think is great.
00:28:23.119 -->
00:28:49.519Um and uh and so I think that many companies like they've become the main the benchmark for a lot of other companies in the space to try to replicate the NPS levels, uh the the the metrics that they have, which is I think it's great for the ecosystem, you know because in in Latin America exactly, exactly, and and customer support in Latin America and financial institutions has been always terrible.
00:28:49.519 -->
00:29:00.240Uh and so try to create like that sort of system or being able to create that systemic change uh in the industry, I think it's it's amazing.
00:29:00.240 -->
00:29:04.480And I think that there's space uh for them to do so in the US.
00:29:05.200 -->
00:29:20.880Any other Latin fintechs that our audience should be aware of, um, especially if they uh expand to the US, you know, that could be like a very good like opportunity for some of our listeners to maybe work at one of those.
00:29:20.880 -->
00:29:24.400For example, DLocal seems to be doing a lot.
00:29:24.400 -->
00:29:26.720Yes, from Tail for Medale.
00:29:26.720 -->
00:29:34.160I know you're hiring a um a sales role, so for the listeners, that's a huge opportunity.
00:29:34.160 -->
00:29:38.720Um, so much greenfield, especially if you have a bank rolodex of contacts.
00:29:38.720 -->
00:29:43.599So um definitely reach out if you're interested in that role, anyone that's listening.
00:29:44.480 -->
00:29:45.359Uh thanks.
00:29:45.359 -->
00:29:53.359Um yeah, I think that um there are companies that have uh opportunities in the US market.
00:29:53.359 -->
00:30:01.200Uh, of course, we we are seeing a lot of action in the cross-border payments and remittances space, which is logic.
00:30:01.200 -->
00:30:10.720Uh, I think it's like uh some that that's a space that is very hot right now, and I think that will grow a lot uh in in the upcoming years.
00:30:10.720 -->
00:30:20.160Um, I think that uh then um definitely uh there's a lot that has it's been done in the infrastructure space.
00:30:20.160 -->
00:30:27.279Um uh not just um banking APIs, also um stable coins, for instance.
00:30:27.279 -->
00:30:33.599I think it's very, very hot, a lot of opportunity around that, um, which I think is it's great.
00:30:33.599 -->
00:30:55.599Um and and then I would say that um I don't think anyone from Latan has tackled the lending space in the US, though I believe that there might be opportunities, especially in the Spanish-speaking uh in the Latino-based population.
00:30:55.599 -->
00:31:10.559Um, I think that um there might be opportunities in which there's data in LATAM that you can process in order to provide better options for that particular population.
00:31:10.559 -->
00:31:20.000Um and and like revenue-based uh scoring, revenue-based lending.
00:31:20.000 -->
00:31:23.039I think that that's uh an interesting space as well.
00:31:23.039 -->
00:31:26.559Uh, and there's a lot that can be built around that.
00:31:27.039 -->
00:31:28.319Yeah, I totally agree.
00:31:28.319 -->
00:31:44.720Like I lived in New York for seven years, went to Mexico and for 18 months, and came back and it's like I don't exist as a person, and to try and get approved for the apartment that I live in, I had to get a guarantor.
00:31:44.720 -->
00:31:52.799So I think that there's definitely opportunity in the US for different types of underwriting for foreigners.
00:31:52.799 -->
00:31:55.039Um, great.
00:31:55.039 -->
00:31:57.279Well, we're actually at time already.
00:31:57.279 -->
00:31:58.559That went really fast.
00:31:58.559 -->
00:32:02.799Um, but we're gonna end on the final we did.
00:32:02.799 -->
00:32:03.519We had a lot.
00:32:03.519 -->
00:32:07.279Yeah, I'm gonna end on the final fun question that I ask all the guests.
00:32:07.279 -->
00:32:09.440So, what is your favorite book?
00:32:09.440 -->
00:32:14.079Firstly, personal, and it can be fiction or non-fiction, and then a professional one.
00:32:15.200 -->
00:32:17.680Um, okay.
00:32:17.680 -->
00:32:25.839Uh, so there's one which I think is personal but also professional, uh, which I love.
00:32:25.839 -->
00:32:35.200Um, is from a Chilean uh scientist, neuroscientist, uh, which is called Umberto Maturana.
00:32:35.200 -->
00:32:50.079Uh the book is called um in Spanish, Del Ser al Acer, which I would translate uh very unpolishly, like from being to doing, like something like that, but it's it doesn't translate as well.
00:32:50.079 -->
00:33:08.000Uh but basically um he studied like uh he was an epistemologist, uh so he studied like how do we as humans perceive everything and how like everything is being perceived by someone which is the body.
00:33:08.000 -->
00:33:14.160You know, like me through my body, I'm perceiving whatever it's outside.
00:33:14.160 -->
00:33:20.079And so whatever it's outside is basically a proxy of me, you know.
00:33:20.079 -->
00:33:33.200Uh and so like being able to understand your own knowledge processes and being self-aware about how it's that you are thinking, you know, for me has been transformational transformational, you know.
00:33:33.200 -->
00:33:59.279Like I've, for instance, always struggled to exercise, like historically, and since like I understood like the impact that it had in my body and in how like I would face the rest of the day mentally, from a mental perspective, like I exercise a lot, you know, and so like from that small things, you know, to actually being much more aware of your own thinking path.
00:33:59.279 -->
00:34:01.680Um, and so like I I love it.
00:34:01.680 -->
00:34:06.000Um and then I I always uh read a lot of poetry.
00:34:06.000 -->
00:34:07.359I love poetry.
00:34:07.359 -->
00:34:14.880Um and I'm particularly fond right now of an Argentinian poet, which is called Roberto Juarroz.
00:34:14.880 -->
00:34:28.400Um and so I would recommend a little bit of poetry from Roberto Juarroz, and then a little bit of uh Chilean epistemologist, uh this Chilean epistemologist, Umberto Maturena.
00:34:28.400 -->
00:34:30.800Very Latam based.
00:34:31.119 -->
00:34:54.960Very Latam based, very very um fitting, and I totally agree with like the science behind that book, our thoughts become our reality, and it's like scientifically proven that exercising can completely shift your mood, and it's something that I've been getting into, like religiously doing yoga every day, and it's totally made significant changes in my life.
00:34:54.960 -->
00:34:56.159Um, great.
00:34:56.159 -->
00:34:58.079Well, thank you so much, Ximena.
00:34:58.079 -->
00:34:59.920It was lovely to have you.
00:34:59.920 -->
00:35:04.800Um, and thank you to all the listeners of the This Month Infintech podcast.
00:35:04.800 -->
00:35:12.559You can listen to our podcast wherever you get your podcasts, Spotify, um, Apple, etc.
00:35:12.559 -->
00:35:16.639Um, and please subscribe and like, that would be really helpful for us.
00:35:16.639 -->
00:35:17.199Great.
00:35:17.199 -->
00:35:18.480Thanks, everyone.
00:35:18.480 -->
00:35:19.840Thank you, Assa.
00:35:19.840 -->
00:35:21.119Bye bye.
