WEBVTT
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones, a podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St.
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James are interred beneath the high altar.
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I'm your host, Robert Nurney, and I want to welcome my good friend Stephen Lighty.
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We've known each other for many years as Providence teachers, and um I just want to say welcome, Steve.
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Hey, thanks for having me.
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Oh, no problem.
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My pleasure.
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So Steve and his wife Mary Ann are interested in walking the Camino in the near future.
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So today's episode will be a conversation about the Camino, a give and take, a qu uh question and answers.
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So, Steve, tell me, how did you hear about the Camino?
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Steve: Uh, I think the first time I heard about it was from you, and um, I believe you lent me the um the uh movie with um Martin Sheen.
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Martin Sheen.
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So that was uh my first introduction to it.
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What did you think about the movie?
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I loved it.
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It's been a long time since I saw it, but uh, I should watch it again.
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Yeah, yeah, you should.
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I've only seen it like 72 times.
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Uh one of my favorites.
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Um actually, when I first saw that, I didn't like it.
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I thought it was slow.
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A friend had recommended it, and Karen and I sat, I I think I bought the DVD back then, and she fell asleep, and I'm going, I don't get this movie at all.
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So it's kind of ironic.
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Yep.
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Um, all right.
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So was it appealing when you I I know you have a sense of adventure.
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I know that you love to I know you love to uh to walk and bike.
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Yeah.
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So um, yeah, I th I've I've never done like a long hiking trip, you know, more like day hikes and stuff, but uh I think it would be uh definitely a a challenge and uh you know, and especially doing it in a foreign country as well.
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I think it would be really interesting.
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And and then you tie in the um, you know, kind of like the religious aspect of it.
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I think it would be definitely right.
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That's a good question.
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So on my um my Caminos, uh the big question is why are you here?
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That's that's a common question.
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Yeah, and so uh, you know, at night when you're drinking uh you're sharing wine, wine and food with other pilgrims, yeah, you get into that conversation.
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And so it's it's there's a number of reasons why people go.
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You know, it's cultural, it's uh historical, it's um uh religious or spiritual.
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So what would be the driving reason for you and your wife to to make the Camino?
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Um I think the first one would probably be more of like the adventure part and you know, hiking in a in a I've never been to Spain, um, so I think that would be really interesting.
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I I'm not a um a devout Christian by any means, but I think being on a like a a religious or a spiritual pilgrimage would be um interesting and seeing other people doing it, I I would find that pretty um, I don't know if entertaining is the right word, but uh uh very interesting.
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Right, right.
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Yeah.
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It definitely is uh there's a uh a sense of adventure.
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Um when when I first went with my wife in 2015, um booking.com wasn't as you know, I don't know if it was it wasn't relevant at the point or wasn't, you know, but uh the computer definitely has had an impact on the Camino because you can you know you can go, you can make sure that you have a uh a place to stay, yeah, and and stuff like that, which takes away from the experience, I think.
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Right.
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It gives you that sense of security, where I think that uh for me it's more about trusting in God.
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Yeah, but it's such a and then you're like, well, maybe I should do it, maybe I shouldn't do it.
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So that's one I'm thinking about.
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Like, so this year I'm supposed to go with my granddaughter, yeah.
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You know, for and so I'm figuring out what's the best route or the best stages to to take her on.
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And uh so I have to be conscious, you know, she's 10 years old.
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I mean, she's mature for her age, but uh, you know, so um, and do I want to book the whole way?
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Right.
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Or do I do I want to teach her like you know, there is a God and we can trust in his providence and yeah, yeah.
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Um not that you would do it with your with your granddaughter, but would it is it possible or do people do it without any um technology and just and wing it?
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Yes, very few though.
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Yeah, it's not like it's not as uh common as as you might think, but yeah, I would I would say if you can do it that way, definitely do it that way.
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Yeah, you know what I mean?
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Um because well, let's take the Francais, for instance.
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It's it's way marked the whole way, yeah.
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So you have yellow arrows and you have the shells, you know, that um symbolize the uh those are the the symbols of the the Camino.
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And uh so it's hard to get lost in you going west on the on the Francais.
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Yeah.
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There are other paths that are not as well marked, you know.
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The Norte, my wife and I were on the Norte for one day.
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So um, yeah, I mean you can definitely do it.
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You can do it, you know.
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Uh there are people that do it with like a day pack, right?
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You know what I mean?
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And they just have a few things to change into.
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So what would happen if you walked into a town late in the evening and there was nowhere to stay?
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Right.
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So I have heard stories about that, and I've I've encountered that a few times, but um some of the stories were, you know, one guy from Germany, he said I was, you know, in this town, this particular Albergue was was filled, and he said, Listen to the guy, I'll I'll sleep on the floor.
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I need a place to stay.
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And so he slept on the floor.
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So they let him, yeah.
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Yeah, so um because camping is illegal.
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It is like wild camping is illegal, but I've seen it done, yeah, you know, because uh uh just the fact that the country's so big and right, you know.
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But um there are places, there are towns that do have campsites, a few.
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So I mean that's a a possibility.
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But I would not and people aren't really carrying like tents and camping gear.
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No.
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So if you show up at a at a campsite, do they have equipment for you or that's a good question.
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I never used uh I don't know, I'm not sure.
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I do know I've met people with um with tents, and so uh but so I mean there's definitely places to pitch a tent.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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Uh they don't want fires, obviously.
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Last year there were wildfires.
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Yeah.
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But last year I was walking with the two Dominican priests and we got into a town and we hadn't booked anything.
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I think I told you um I I recommended that we pray on the way for a place to stay.
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Yeah.
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My wife and I would do that often.
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Uh so we were doing that, and we'd end up and it seemed providential, like we'd meet people that and the priests would have discussions about faith with them and stuff.
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I like, oh, this is cool, you know?
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Yeah.
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And I got my interviews.
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And then one day we kind of we came into a town and it was it was probably pretty warm that day.
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Uh the temperatures were like between 85 and 100.
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Yeah.
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So we were kind of burnt out.
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We go to a an albergue, closed, complete, you know, filled.
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And then we go to another one, and that was filled, and they were like, What the heck?
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So someone dialed ahead and found an albergue like a mile and a half um further west, yeah, that was empty.
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And so we we walked there and you know it was no problem.
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But the next day they're like, That's it, we're booking from here on in.
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Yeah, so I don't know, with uh with my granddaughter, I'll see.
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Yeah, I mean it's probably probably better to take some precautions with a kid, right?
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Yeah, but if I had to recommend, I would say no, just go and and give it to the Lord.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Because um sometimes you end up in a really cool place, right?
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You know, and we've met people, well, one woman in particular from Australia, and she said that um at times because she had her dog with her, that she was not allowed to stay at the Albergues with a dog, and so she stayed with uh townspeople.
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That's cool.
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She may have had a tent too.
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Yeah, so that's cool.
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Yep.
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So any particular questions that you'd like to answer if say if you're going tomorrow.
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What kind of shoes should I wear?
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That's probably one of the best questions.
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Okay.
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So for the first nine, I used oboe's, uh-huh, which is I think it's American-made, but it's a pretty heavy um shoe.
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I didn't have a boot, okay?
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So uh strong bottom, yeah.
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And um I had blisters.
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I get blisters anyway because of the way I strike, my kid strikes.
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But last year, I went to uh Roadrunner in Providence, yeah, and the guy recommended this light Mizuno sneaker.
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It might have been a cross trainer or something, but it was light.
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Yeah.
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And so I used that.
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I still got blisters, but it was like it was ideal.
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Yeah, it didn't rain, so it didn't get wet.
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Um, but I don't think that's it, that's key anyway.
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I don't I don't think you know uh um a rain a Gore-Tex rainproof shoe even matters.
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But it it doesn't rain much anyway, right?
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It can, but it can.
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But it's a dry, it's a dry country.
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It's pretty dry.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I've had I've walked in rain before though, like far.
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Yeah.
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So it can.
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Yeah.
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Um if you're in the mountains initially, it might rain or even s sleet.
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Yeah, you know.
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But so this year I'm gonna go back to the uh I left those in Spain.
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I leave a lot of things in Spain.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And then uh they um I'm gonna go back to that.
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I'm not gonna wear a hiking shoe.
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Yeah.
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You know.
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If you're doing the 500 miles, if you're going from like uh San Jean to Santiago, maybe something uh a little firmer than the Mizuno.
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Yeah.
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But it's up, you know.
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The the the key is that you buy it early and you train with it.
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Right.
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You know, give it some time.
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So you make it through with one pair of shoes?
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It's not like the Appalachian Trail where you have to go through like four or whatever.
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No, yeah, that's that's totally different.
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Yeah.
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And the Camino is very civilized.
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The Appalachian Trail is rougher, yeah.
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Yeah, I could never do it now with my hips.
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Yeah.
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You know, no, the Camino for the most part, if you go in the Francaise, the first day you go up into the Pyrenees and um And that starts in France?
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That starts in southern France.
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Yeah, you know, that's the most the most popular route is is the Francais.
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But a lot of people start in different places on the like this shell start in Lyon.
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Yeah, you know, but you go up into the mountains and then down into so you're still in France, then down into Spain.
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And then so the first couple of days, the next day you have to come out of the mountains and you're going down this shale path, which is kind of tough.
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Yeah, and then after that, it's very civilized for and then at the end you have another mountain range, but by then you've walked over 400 miles.
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Yeah.
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So it doesn't so you're okay.
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Yeah, you're fine.
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So um, is there like a border crossing?
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Do you have to like show your passport?
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No, no, there's you you do cross into Spain, but yeah, there's not a gate with a guard or anything.
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No, yeah.
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I don't even know where it is, somewhere in the mountains, you know what I mean?
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Yeah, you're coming down into Espana, yeah, you know, and uh that first day is cool, yeah, because the the Pyrenees are beautiful, yeah, and they're like wild horses up there and stuff.
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Uh-huh.
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And um some people do the the full stage, which is like 17 miles, but it's more like 24 miles because of the elevation.
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Yeah, and then even coming down is difficult.
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It can be harder a lot of times.
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But um, so I've gone over, I've done that in one day.
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Most people do it one day, but I would recommend I although I recommend that you stay up in the mountain.
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There are two places you can stay because it's just uh uh you only have to walk like six miles, yeah, and then you can hang out, yeah.
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Um, maybe seven miles, and then um and it's a it's probably one of the best places to stay because you're up in the mountains, um, you meet people, and those people usually become friends for the rest of the journey.
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Which is awesome, yeah, yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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And um so there's Horusan, which is just Orison's on the map, but it's really just this Albergue, private Albergue on the right, and then they have like picnic tables on the left, and you can just you can stay there.
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And um there's a newer one that I stayed at two years ago.
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I forget what it's called, but it's up on the left, another one kilometer up on the left.
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And this uh gentleman bought the property and redid it, and uh he is the your host and the chef, and he's kind of a comic.
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Yeah, so that you know, at night when you're eating with the uh other pilgrims, he has you introduce yourself and stuff, and then he he has comments and stuff.
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Uh-huh.
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It's pretty cool.
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Yeah, that's what it's all about, dude.
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The the the communal meal is the is the best.
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Yeah, but not those are not always easy to come by.
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Right.
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You know what I mean?
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But that is what you want right out of everything you want to you want to eat with the pilgrims, hanging with the pilgrims, yeah.
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It's the best.
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Um, so what's your uh what's like the daily mileage or kilometerage?
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Right.
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Okay, well, no, that's a good question.
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So I have I brought these two guide books.
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These are probably the most popular.
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Yeah, that's like the definitive.
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The the gentleman just died recently, but I think his daughter's taking that over.
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And so the stages they um they depict the stages in both both that book and this book.
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This is an easier one to read.
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Um and so I would say between 14 miles and 19 miles would be, you know, according to these stages.
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Kind of the average, yeah.
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Yeah, so probably like 14 to 15 would be the average, which is a lot.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's one thing you do one day, but as I get older, it's a lot.
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Yeah.
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Um but day in and day out, you it's uh it's a pounding on your feet, that's the thing.
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Yeah, that's why you want to carry the lightest pack possible, right?
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Um it's interesting the title, a practical and mystical manual for the modern day pilgrim.
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So as far as the mystical part, what is the guidebook?
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Is it he has um in this one, he has um he has uh paragraphs that kind of like remind you why you're there and stuff.
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I mean if you really read this as you go, yeah.
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I've never done that, but uh usually you know he's got um all of the uh albergues per stop with their phone numbers, so this is updated every couple of years.
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Yeah, you know, but most people now are using uh using their iPhone.
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Right.
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You know, their apps that you know I'd rather have a book personally, yeah, yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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So I usually take I'll take this one this year.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.320
Yeah, you know, it's easier to to read.
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:48.960
Yeah.
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:55.039
Um, yeah, I would say, but some people like you know, some people do more mileage.
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.679
I met I mean you meet people that are doing crazy miles, you know.
00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:59.840
Like one guy, oh, I do 40 kilometers a day.
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:06.639
I'm like, I met this one dude from uh I don't know if it was Sweden or Switzerland.
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:12.159
He was walking in the morning, running in the afternoon, so he wasn't carrying his pack, he was sending that ahead.
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.440
You can do that for five euro.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:21.440
And he uh just had like a camel pack on, you know, and he was doing um he was doing 40 miles a day.
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:22.720
Wow, that's nice.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:23.440
Like, what?
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:32.159
Yeah, but he's also an ultra marathoner as far as you know, but I was like, that's that and that I think you have to decide what is this, what what is this for me?
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:32.639
Right.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.960
If you're doing it for a test of endurance, great, do 40 miles a day.
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:37.120
Right.
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:46.799
But if you want to like meet pilgrims and and you know commune with the place, it seems like going a little slower might be better.
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:57.600
Well, last year I met um a gentleman from uh from the UK, excuse me, Kamal.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:03.600
So a Hindu, although he never told me he was a Hindu, but he's Indian.
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.000
Yeah.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.879
And he did I tell you this story?
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:07.600
I don't think so, no.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.960
All right, really cool guy.
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:14.879
So he has this Indian food restaurant in Santiago called uh Camino Curry.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.600
And it was open when I was there, it had been open for like 54 days, you know.
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.600
And he was working with his son, I think his son's name is Dev.
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:32.480
And um so he said that he just he had seen something about the Camino and he uh told his wife, I think I need to do this.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:33.679
She's like, What?
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:34.559
What are you talking about?
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.960
This is Camino, I need to do it.
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:42.080
And then uh so he he uh did it, I think, in 2024.
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:43.840
Or was it 2025?
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.200
Maybe 2025.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:58.720
And uh so he got in the flow, he was like following, you know, he started in Saint Jean-Pied de Port, so he was gonna do the 500 miles, you know, 800 kilometers, and uh he said he he was walking everyone else's pace.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:04.000
Then he's and someone said, you know, Kamal, the Camino will be here tomorrow.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.680
Yeah, you know, and he said, What?
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:12.400
He goes, You walk your own Camino, yeah, and so he just totally like um slowed down.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:19.680
Yeah, and he said, instead I said, I just I I was the last one to leave the Albergie every day, so I'd wait until because you have until like eight o'clock in the morning.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:19.839
Yeah.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.279
When they threw me out, that's when I left.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.279
Because people are getting up at five, four.
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:23.839
Right.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.240
I do not recommend walking in the dark.
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:26.880
Right.
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.039
I just it's even though people oh we're gonna get up at it's just a waste.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah.
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.839
Unless you have like I know there's there's one reason uh that I would agree with.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:44.960
People want to go, um, they want to get up early and see the sunrise um over the um Cruz de Ferro, which is uh is a special place.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:45.920
Yeah, that's different.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:46.799
You want to see the sunrise.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.839
So that's like a one-day thing.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:49.119
It's a one-day thing, yeah.
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:56.720
And usually you're walking from this town, Fancy Bedon, which is you know what I mean, it's it's only meters away.
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:57.039
Right.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.559
So it's not like you, but I think it's dangerous, and I don't think it's it's worth it.
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:01.039
Right.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.680
And you're not seeing anything a few feet in front of you, but if you're lucky, right.
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:12.559
So he started walking slowly, and he said, Um, I had brought um a number of spices to cook with.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.599
And he said I would every night I would cook for pilgrims.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.200
And uh that's what I did.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:24.799
And he said uh then when he got back to um England, he uh said to his wife he had to go back.
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.759
And when he went back, he's like, Oh, I need to open the restaurant.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.519
Yeah, so a really cool guy.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.599
So I I contacted him recently.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.400
I said, Hopefully I'll see you this uh this summer.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.559
Yeah, you know the restaurant's still open, right?
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.359
So they're gonna reopen it in March, so they closed it, I guess for the winter.
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:41.279
Oh, they closed in the winter for the winter, yeah.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.759
And he went to India this this winter and he did like this massive uh tour of India, you know what I mean?
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.799
On foot?
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.960
No, trains and all this other yeah.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.000
So he's but he's from England, or he lives in England, yeah.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:54.880
He's from England, yeah.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.480
Wow, very interesting, dude.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:01.359
Yeah, and like that was that's the spirit of the Camino, like walk your own pace, right?
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:02.720
If you're fast, you're fast.
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.640
Yeah, if you're not, you're not.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:05.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.759
You know what I mean?
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.279
Because I'm not, yeah.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:12.400
Yeah, but I would say the average would be about 14 miles a day, yeah.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.079
Which is plenty, right?
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.039
But some days, some stages are actually 19 miles, like 18, 19, that's a long day.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:25.119
Yeah, you know, you're walking, you're on the road to like for well, I on the road to like five o'clock.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.759
That's with a with a lunch and hanging out, but right.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:34.319
So is it typical kind of like to take a long siesta during the the heat of the day?
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.319
Well, a lot of pilgrims will try to beat the heat.
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:38.640
Yeah.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:45.279
So they'll walk, you know, say they get up at 6, 6.15, they're on the road at 6 30, they try to get into town by one.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.319
Okay.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:47.359
That's never me.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:47.920
Yeah.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:49.599
But that's they try to beat the heat.
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.000
So my wife and I have Oh, and then they're done for the day?
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:52.640
They're done.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.240
So do do you ever do like, you know, 7 a.m.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.839
to 11 and take a few hours off and then do more in the afternoon?
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:00.400
I do that.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:00.880
Oh, yeah.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.440
Because that seems reasonable to me.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:03.839
Right.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.000
And you just cover, you know, you wear a hat, make sure you get covered up and you're gonna sweat.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:08.400
Yeah.
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.240
You know, especially in July and August.
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:10.799
Right.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.759
But I find, yeah, Karen and I like sometimes we're the last people that walk into town.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.079
Yeah.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.279
And people like you guys.
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:22.000
And then these are sort of boring technical questions, but like, where do you get your water and stuff?
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.079
Do you buy it or do you is there like right?
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:26.480
So we oftentimes buy it, yeah.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.519
Right, but every almost every town has a fountain and you can just fill up.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.839
Yeah.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:32.640
Yeah.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.279
You could almost but sometimes you get in and the town, you're like, this isn't really a town.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:37.519
Yeah.
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:43.839
It's deserted and like all the houses are empty, and uh, so some town towns that the fountain doesn't work.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:44.079
Yeah.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.759
And it'll tell you if it's drinkable or not.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.640
Right, right, right.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:46.960
Right.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.160
But most of the most of the fountains in the towns are are drinkable.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.319
What do they say, potable?
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:52.960
Potable?
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.519
I always say potable, but I some people say potable.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:56.160
I don't know.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:59.119
Uh yeah.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:00.240
No, that's an important thing.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.880
That's because you know, hydration is probably the most important thing.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:03.279
Right.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:05.599
And if you hydrate early, you're better off.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.359
Because I've been dehydrated, yeah.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:08.480
Where I'm just out of my mind.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.880
Yeah, and you just get so tired hiking.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:11.200
Yeah.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:12.799
And you don't realize why.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:13.759
No, it's true.
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:14.240
Yeah.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:14.640
Right.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.559
So you can never drink one one town.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:21.599
I I um there was a masseuse, you know, and so I got my massage for 15 euro.
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.839
And the guy goes, You need to drink way more water, dude.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:25.680
Yeah, you need to drink two liters a day.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:26.799
I'm like, two liters?
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.200
Yeah.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:28.400
I don't come close to that.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:28.799
Yeah.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.799
You know, a liter is like a quart-ish, right?
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.640
I don't know.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:35.279
Yeah.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:36.000
It's like this.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:36.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:37.839
You know, I mean, two of those.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.519
But you you probably need it.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:40.720
Yeah, and you're sweating it out.
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:41.200
Yeah.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:41.759
Yeah.
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:43.680
So huh.
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:44.880
Interesting.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:59.839
Um, so my other question, sort of, as you and I have like an English teacher background, what's um do you have any like uh inspiration as far as as like literature that's based on pillars?
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:11.359
Pilgrimages like the Canterbury Tales, or I'm also like thinking of uh do you know Matsuo Basho's um The Narrow Road to the North?
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.000
No, it was like a Japanese uh haiku.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:14.720
Oh really?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:27.039
And it's it's sort of like a haiku uh um uh sequence, but it it also has narrative in it, but it's all about and he's visiting different like holy places in Japan.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:27.680
Oh wow.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.839
So are you were you influenced by any of that kind of well?
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:42.480
My wife and I before um let me see what year I forget when we read this, but uh actually when in in Providence, there was uh in our anthology um at Providence College?
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.160
No, in no in the Providence School system.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.119
Oh, okay.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:50.079
So one of the anthologies for like British Lit, um was it British Lit?
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.680
They had a little section on pilgrimage, probably prior to uh Canterbury Tales.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.599
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.680
And they mentioned a book, The Art of Pilgrimage.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:03.519
So I bought that, and we've read that twice, and that's all about pilgrimage, all different religions, all different, you know.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.559
So that's a pretty cool book.
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:05.359
Yeah.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.480
Um it's very it's a little dense.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:08.960
Yeah.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.880
And so we read that a couple times.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.920
But the Camino itself produces a ton of literature.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.720
Like I'm reading a book right now, I forget the guy's name.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:21.440
He's from Australia, and he was um he had written some project.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:31.920
He had written something and he made some money from this writing, and he was re retiring, and he was really out of shape and stuff, you know, and so he he uh decides to walk the Camino.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.599
But he goes from like, I don't know where he starts, Granada or something.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:37.119
It's a different, you know, it's sort of southern.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:42.480
Yeah, and so there he doesn't have a lot of you know um fellow pilgrims on these routes.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.200
Yeah, you know.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.400
So I'm getting through that.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:45.519
It's it's really well written.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.400
He's a good writer.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:24:02.000
Um, he gets into the history of uh of like um of the country as far as like uh the Islamic influence, yeah, and then um Franco, just a lot of uh stuff that I you know it's it's it's all right.
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:04.799
Gives you some background on the Spanish history, yeah.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:06.480
Which is interesting.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:26.079
Do you find that like most of the I'm sort of thinking of like um you know how Joseph Campbell has the uh the hero's quest, and sometimes the hero is um like the reluctant hero, like um isn't uh is it Bilbo or Frodo in Lord of the Rings?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:28.319
Like they don't want to go on the quest.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:34.240
Do you feel that are most people gung-ho in the beginning or or or even for yourself?
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:41.359
Were you like, I'm not sure that I'm gonna be able to pull this off, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyway?
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:51.599
Or yeah, no, that you definitely meet um, I mean, that's part of uh my experience, and I think I've met people like that too, you know, because uh because you never know.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah, you know, so um, and then you meet people who are like, oh, they can conquer almost anything.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:57.359
Yeah.
00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.119
So I think it's more of a personality thing.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.240
For me, it's I always go with like I never know what the Lord wants.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:11.759
You know, like one year I ended up um I wanted to go, I wanted to start, I think, in uh I think I was gonna start in southern France.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.440
And then I got to Madrid and my flight to Pampolona was canceled.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.880
I was like, what?
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.079
And they said, uh, we're gonna get you there by bus.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.440
I said, I'm not taking a bus there.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.960
So I just started in Madrid.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:25.440
Yeah.
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:27.599
And so there is a Madrid Camino.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:28.000
Uh-huh.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.079
But no one, no one does it.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:30.400
No one.
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:32.319
I met two guys, I think they were drunk.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.680
But uh so I I ended up coming home early on that.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.039
It was just was a very difficult, very lonely experience.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:43.759
And uh, yeah, so I so I give it to the Lord, like I don't know what's gonna happen.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.559
See what happened.
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:54.880
Yeah, but I had one of the best, not the best, but I actually I was by myself and I had to cross, I had to get over this mountain to uh Segovia.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:01.200
So my walk to Segovia was probably it was really, it was a crazy day.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:02.640
I had to do 20 miles.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:12.559
I had just like um I think I had uh half of a ham sandwich, and uh I was up in the mountains and uh there were no way markings.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:16.079
Yeah, um this wild boar goes flying by me.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.000
I was like, what am I doing here?
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:18.240
Yeah.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:25.920
I come out of the mountain, um, down from the mountain, and I see this guy in a truck, and I'm like, I said, I gotta see if I I can get a ride to Segovia.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.559
So I go up to the guy, I go, Segovia, can you give me a ride?
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.680
He's like, No.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.720
He points on the horizon.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:38.079
You can see like this little whatever, like you know, the uh the city of Segovia.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:39.440
He's like, Segovia.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:40.319
I'm like, what?
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.559
I said, please, no, Segovia.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:44.480
It was really at least he pointed the way.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.359
Yeah, right.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.599
I crawled into that town, dude.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.720
I was really struggling.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.359
Yeah, but uh, yeah, that was definitely um one of those Caminos that uh I was like, Lord, why am I here?
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:56.799
Yeah, like what am I doing?
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.000
So uh how many times have you done it by yourself?
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:02.400
Oh, that's a good question.
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:09.599
Uh 2016, um 2024.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.920
Um maybe three times by myself.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.519
I like going by myself because um you can just decide, you know what I mean?
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.200
Like it like this year I'm going like for my granddaughter.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:23.599
Right.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.519
So it's not gonna be about me, right?
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.960
Like, how do I help this kid get you know from Leone to Santiago?
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:30.960
Yeah, you know, so and what does she need?
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.200
She needs to get on a bus, we get on a bus.
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.000
You know what I mean?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.519
I I can't let my ego get in yeah, yeah.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:39.359
You know, so that's it's a different experience.
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:41.119
Yeah, I'd say three.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:41.680
Uh-huh.
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:42.240
Yeah.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:48.000
And you enjoy that because you're kind of picking up like comrades along the way.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.119
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.400
Like in 2024, I was almost never alone.
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:52.799
Yeah.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.519
You know what I mean?
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.200
People from all over the world.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.079
But uh, but when I wanted to be alone, I could be alone.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.480
Right.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:59.440
You know, yeah.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.519
And I still did what I wanted to do.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:01.920
Right.
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.680
You know, which sometimes seemed weird to other people, but yeah.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:19.039
Um, I still talk to uh this um a young man, well, he was 33, he's 33 now, um, Alessandro from Italy, and he texts me, messages me, Robert, you are the president of the Camino.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.160
He was really funny.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.640
Yeah.
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:23.839
Um, yeah.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:30.400
And so you do um see people from year to year that you recognize.
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:31.920
Once in a while.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.640
Yeah.
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:42.079
The the the story that I tell is that in 2015, my wife and I, that was our first Camino, and we really didn't know what it was about.
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.559
Right.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:47.039
You know, and so we're taking buses and taxis, but you're trying to hide from other other pilgrims.
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:50.799
You don't want to, you know, get spotted as a pilgrim on a bus.
00:28:50.799 --> 00:29:07.119
But um, so we take this car, a taxi, into town, and we go to the first cafe, um, and there's a guy behind the bar with a counter, and he uh so he introduces himself as um as Robert.
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.559
I go, I'm Robert too.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.400
He goes, You talking to me?
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.640
The day was was Manny.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.200
Okay, but he he he looked a little bit like De Nero.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:15.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.799
And so uh so he said, Come back tonight.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.960
We have a uh a donation dinner.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:27.039
So I I serve um paella, and uh, you know, I invite any pilgrim that comes in today.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:36.480
And so we went back that night for dinner, it was awesome, and um everyone told their stories, and he would translate into English or into Spanish or whatever.
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.920
So it was a lot of fun.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:47.039
And at the end, I gave him you know the money, my our donation, and I gave he gave me a hug and he said Buen Camino, which everyone says, and many more.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.279
And I I said to him, You're crazy, dear.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.599
I'll I'll never come back to this country.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:30:03.279
Yeah, and uh so two years later, 2017, we're gonna we're on the meseta and we're going to another different town, and he is the um the host of a of a different albergue.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.000
I go, Manny, he goes, I don't know you.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.640
Yes, you do.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.640
And so we stopped and had lunch there.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:10.960
Yeah.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:11.839
So once in a while.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.400
Although I I did see um, yeah, I mean it's it's crazy.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.039
Sometimes you see people like that you've met before.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:18.400
Yeah, you know.
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:20.319
Um that's cool.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.200
That is cool.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:38.960
So what's the um, you know, obviously you talked about how some people are doing it just because they were doing like the the hiking challenge, but like what's your sort of like religious um ritual, not ritual, but what's your religious practice during the day like average day?
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:40.559
Are you okay?
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.039
Well, last year was different because I was with two priests.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:43.519
Yeah.
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:46.799
So they were they're obligated to say certain prayers.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:47.200
Uh-huh.
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.319
So they would pray together on the on the road, and I wouldn't As they're walking?
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.119
Yeah, they would, yeah.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.559
And they say it out loud?
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.559
Yeah, because it's kind of like choral.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.279
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.720
All right, so they're Dominicans, so they're almost like they're kind of monastic.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.680
Yeah, you know, they're not monks, but they're there's a monastic aspect.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.880
So when they pray, they pray in choir, you know.
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.079
So the ones, you know, this side says something, that side says something.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:08.400
Yeah.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:10.160
And they often sing their prayer.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.720
Uh-huh.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.039
So um, which is very monastic.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:13.440
Yeah.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:14.000
You know.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.640
So they um, so one non-negotiable was mass every day.
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:19.119
Uh-huh.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.200
So we were getting up and they would they would find a place um in the Alberga to say mass.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.960
You only need a little corner, you know.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.119
But then it got really warm and they said we want to leave earlier.
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.039
So let's say mass at midnight.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.599
So they started waking me up at like quarter to twelve.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.200
We'd have mass at midnight.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:38.319
It's only 20 minutes.
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:38.640
Yeah.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.440
And you'd go back to bed, and we'd get up early and walk in the dark, which is sort of yeah, yeah.
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:48.240
So that was uh, so that was kind of superimposed, but the mass was beautiful, you know what I mean?
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.079
So every day we had mass, every single day.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:50.480
Yeah.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.759
And then I'd say my rosary.
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.559
But for me, when I'm on my own, I usually say the full rosary in the morning.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:56.880
Uh-huh.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.039
So I'll just pray the rosary the whole way.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:05.119
And then I also will do the Jesus Prayer, which is um, have you ever read uh The Way of the Pilgrim?
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:06.799
No, it's a cool book.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.240
It's about a Russian pilgrim.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.079
I think it's uh anonymous, I don't think there's an authorship.
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:23.440
And uh he basically he's just a pilgrim and he walks you know from town to town, and yeah, he um he looks for charity as far as where he's gonna sleep, what what he's gonna eat.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.240
But he says the Jesus prayer so Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me as sinner.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:34.799
So that's his prayer over and over and over and over again until it seeps into his heart and it becomes part of his his being.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.279
Yeah.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:43.519
I I pray that a lot on the Camino because it's simple, yeah, and um, and it gives me um it gives me a focus.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:43.839
Yeah.
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:48.960
So those two the rosary and then the Jesus prayer are two big prayers for me.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:53.599
And uh and then if I can get to mass, which is not always guaranteed, you know what I mean?
00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:02.319
So along the along the trail, there might be I'm I'm assuming like in Europe, most of the small little villages all have a church.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.880
Yes.
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:10.799
So you can stop each wherever and you well, I guess you have to time it right because they're not doing mass all day or no, right?
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.039
But sometimes you come into town and there's no mass because there's the priest isn't from that town.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:15.519
Right.
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.079
And he does a visit or rotation, right?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:18.400
Yeah.
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.599
But you can always stop in and and visit the churches, right?
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:30.000
Which is uh they're usually available and they're probably nice and cool and shady compared to or musty sometimes.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.640
I mean, they're like sometimes they're like, you know, 800 years old.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.720
Yeah, it's not like you know the states.
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:44.000
Um, but along the way, are there like big um sort of uh spots or famous spots that you would stop as a pilgrim?
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.960
I know at the end you stop at a cathedral, right?
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:47.599
Right.
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:59.279
So um if you start in Saint Jean, right, and you um so the let me think there's an evening mass, a pilgrim mass in Ransay Svais, right?
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:10.559
So if you go over the mountain, you get to the uh they have this huge um albergue, which was a monastery, I think, uh converted into a pretty nice, it's one of the nicer um alberges.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:13.440
And so the it's like there's not much there.
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:26.559
There's that albergue, and then there's like a like a plaza or like a square, and then there's a church on the left, there's a hotel on your right, and I've stayed there a few times, and um, so that mass is is big.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.280
Everyone goes to that mass, and then there's a blessing at the end, you know, in different languages.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.920
And so that's the mass is usually said in Spanish.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:36.559
So that's that's one that everyone goes to.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:37.119
Okay.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:44.239
And then um a couple days later, you're in Pamplona, they have uh they have a cathedral there.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:57.920
And so I went to I went I went to Mass there in the morning, and then uh, of course, Burgos has a beautiful, crazy cathedral, like a thousand, you know, maybe 900 years old, but it's yeah, really beautiful.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:58.159
Yeah.
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:06.159
So there's mass there in the morning, and then Lyon, another beautiful cathedral, one of my favorites, um, Gothic, of course.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.920
And I think I've been to Mass there too, but definitely Santiago.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.480
They have the the noon mass, is the pilgrim's mass.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:12.880
Uh-huh.
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:20.000
And so everyone tries to get into Santiago, they go and get their um their compostella, and I'll show you that.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:20.480
Oh, yeah.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.079
And this is the credential.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:23.920
So you Oh yeah, you get your stamps.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:25.760
Yeah, you get your stamps all along the way.
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:26.159
Yeah.
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.480
Oh, okay.
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:27.679
And this is last year.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:29.920
Um, and these are kind of new.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.880
These this was last year was a oh, it's like a wax sealing.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.320
Yeah, these people on the side of the road would uh would have these little blocks of wax, yeah, and they charge you two euro.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:40.800
Yeah.
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:41.840
So that's cool.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.599
Yeah, that's a new uh something.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:48.719
What is the um the uh symbolic reason for the shell?
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.079
That's a great question.
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.840
Well, I don't know if I can tell this accurately, but um so St.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.719
James went to evangelize Iberia, right?
00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:00.480
So he went to um evangelize Spain and he was unsuccessful.
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.679
He came back to Jerusalem and was beheaded by Herod.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:04.159
Uh-huh.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:08.320
So he was the first to die, as far as the uh the apostles go.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:22.880
And then his uh disciples took his body and they put it into a stone boat, and it somehow got back to the uh Iberian Peninsula, and uh so um I'm not sure.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:26.960
So the scallop shell would be like attached to that that journey.
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.840
Okay, you know, the ocean voyage, yeah, yeah.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.159
And there's more specifics too, you know what I mean?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:42.239
And the body wasn't found for years, and then finally it was found in uh so it was found with the bones of two or maybe two of his disciples, so it's not just his bones.
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:43.119
Yeah.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:55.679
Um, and so also when did the I see a lot of the stamps on the um the passport or whatever you call it, kind of has this that's your credential the pilgrim uh figure.
00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:05.760
Is that was there somebody who as far as the history goes, was there like somebody who did it the first time or when did it become a a pilgrimage?
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:21.519
Well, 814 Alphonse II, who was like uh I guess I don't know if he was the the king or the he went from Oviedo, so the Primitivo is one of the uh options, and it goes from Oviedo into uh Santiago.
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.920
It's um that was the first one.
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:25.599
Okay, so it's 1200 years.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:26.800
Yeah, wow, yeah.
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.079
Saint Francis has done it, Charlemagne, supposedly.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.719
I'm not sure if the if that lines up.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.360
Yeah, wow and that's the stamp from the cathedral.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.599
That's the your final stamp.
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:38.639
Wow.
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.679
Then 20% of the pilgrims go on to the uh the ocean.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:44.320
Yeah, finistier, which is the end of the the earth.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.440
Yeah, and so that would be a separate compostella.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:47.679
Yeah.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:49.280
Did you ever do that?
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.559
No to the ocean?
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:51.840
No, I would like to do it.
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:59.679
Yeah, I don't know if it's in the cards, but uh, I'd like to do that uh actually in the year if we're still around.
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:08.159
Um in the year 2033, it's gonna be a a holy year, and uh I'll be what 70 or something?
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.599
So I would like to do it then.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:10.000
Yeah.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.599
This is your compostella.
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.159
So it's just oh you get that when you're completed.
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:15.679
Yeah, this is for free.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.119
This is three euro.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.840
They get you on the container.
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.960
That's Latin.
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.920
It just and they list you as Robertum journey.
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:25.519
Yeah, Latin.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.000
Yeah.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:34.639
But um, yeah, so at the end of your journey you show them your credential and they give you the compostella saying that you've uh completed the uh wow camino.
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.920
You have to walk at least um a hundred kilometers.
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.719
Yeah.
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.039
That's really it's kind of funky, huh?
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:43.920
Nicely done, yeah.
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:46.400
So I have a bunch of those in my house.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:47.199
Yeah.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:49.440
Wow.
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:54.320
They print it out like they have a computer or something.
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.440
Because your name Yeah, I don't know.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.119
I did they do have computers.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.320
This one was a little different.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.119
So usually you go into the pilgrim's office and you queue up.
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:05.519
Yeah.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.440
And then it's in the movie too at the end.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.400
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.239
And uh when it's your turn, you go to the counter and they ask you some questions.
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:15.760
You know, what was your reason for doing it?
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:17.199
Was it religious, cultural?
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.199
Yeah, and uh, did you walk the whole way?
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.440
Yeah, and stuff like that.
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:26.480
And uh and then they they take your name from the credential and and put it down.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.000
Yeah, but last year they sent us downstairs, no, around the corner, then downstairs, and there was no cue, and we talked to you know, a couple people at the counter.
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.960
So I don't know what the deal is, if they're breaking it up or something, but uh if you're not in a group, I don't know why we went downstairs, but it didn't feel the same.
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:44.480
Yeah, I was like, I don't like this.
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:45.280
Yeah.
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:51.199
So in the last 10 years, it's basically been about 10 years since you've done it or that you started.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:51.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:51.760 --> 00:40:00.719
Do you feel like um it's changed at all as far as like the the the people that are doing it and the reasons they're doing it?
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:06.639
Like, has Instagram like that influenced um yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.719
Uh I think essentially it's you know, it's the same.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.280
Yeah.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:22.880
But uh it's funny you say that because I interviewed these two gentlemen from New Zealand, and uh they were making some great posts, and one guy goes, It's all for the gram.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:23.920
And I didn't understand that.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.280
I thought you were talking about cocaine.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.159
I was like, what?
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.960
Anyway, this one had to say, no, that's the instant.
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.239
I said, Oh, it makes sense.
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.239
And uh they were really funny, yeah.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.480
They were just two crazy guys, dude.
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:35.360
You know what I mean?
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.320
And one was like a national swimming champion, huh?
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.239
Really tall, crazy dude.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.800
Is he could he could walk like you would not believe.
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:43.440
Yeah.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.800
And uh the other one was uh they were good friends.
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.559
The other one was uh like a bodybuilder and stuff, and they were just nice, nice people.
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:50.960
Yeah.
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:52.880
And uh, so I have they're on the the public.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:41:04.880
So even the um, you know, the Instagram uh the influencers or whatever you call them, there's you feel like this their spirit is still like uh in the right place for the absolutely, yeah.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:09.039
I think that um I mean this is I mean it it attracts all kinds, you know what I mean?
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:24.159
Yeah, and unlike like Rome or Jerusalem, um, or like Lords of Fatima, you know, which are very Catholic, this is a Catholic pilgrimage, but it attracts um such a diverse crowd because of the nature of it.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:32.960
Yeah, you know, um it has an appeal, I think, that is not institutional, even though it's like this institutional sure, yeah.
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.360
It it it lacks that when you're in when you're actually on the road, you don't feel it.
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:44.960
Not at all, yeah, you know, and even uh even in Santiago, you know what I mean, you don't feel it.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:51.679
I mean it's just a very um it is mystical, it's very mysterious, yeah.
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:59.360
And the beauty is that you have these people from all over the world, and uh for the most part, 90, 99% of the time, everyone's getting along.
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.000
Yeah, different philosophies, different theologies.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.199
Yeah, and uh people are just very open to each other.
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:12.960
I think they're uh you could say, like, okay, you know, that most of these people, these pilgrims, tend to be seekers anyway.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:13.599
Right.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:19.280
And they're not, you know, but I think that is I think that does violence to like who knows?
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:19.840
Yeah.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:20.559
Who knows?
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:26.639
I mean, like in any given year now, it's almost 500,000 people are do the Camino.
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.880
Now, they don't make, you know, some people don't make it to um Santiago, right?
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.079
So they don't register.
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:32.639
Right.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:43.199
So the the uh cathedral might say, oh, this year, you know, 250,000 people registered in Santiago, but you have a lot of Europeans that just do weeks at a time, right?
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:48.320
Yeah, people like myself and my wife who didn't get to Santiago, yeah, you know what I mean?
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:52.239
So uh a lot of people are out there, yeah.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:00.800
Um and what's the um you obviously can't do it in the winter, right?
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.639
You can, uh, but a lot of the albergues are closed.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.679
So most people if you probably try to wrap it up by like November, somewhere in that range.
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:17.119
Yeah, I would never suggest a winter hike, but people do it.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:19.679
So when do the albergues close?
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.800
Uh I'd say some October, some November.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:26.719
It might be interesting to kind of do it slightly off season.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.519
I think, yeah, it would definitely be interesting.
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.800
Yeah, you know, um, you might have to carry a little bit more.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.280
Right.
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.920
You might, unless you can, you know, you can layer too.
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:36.559
Yeah.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.760
It would be interesting.
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.519
So if you left, I mean the movie actually they end November seventh in the movie.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:42.159
Oh, okay.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:43.760
Which is off season almost.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.159
Yeah.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.840
And the colors in the movie are pretty in interesting, you know what I mean?
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.000
The color of the fields and the fields and everything.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:56.880
But um if you left October and uh walked into November, I think that would be cool.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:57.440
Yeah.
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.840
You know, I don't think you'd have a problem staying anywhere.
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:00.559
Yeah.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:06.079
And uh I think uh it would be very um I think you'd have a lot of quiet time.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:06.559
Right.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.719
So I would recommend that.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:09.280
Yeah.
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.559
But uh for myself, I don't think I'd ever go into uh into December or January.
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.880
Because you're going into the mountains and who knows.
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.960
Unless you could drop down, you know what I mean?
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.800
Like you could uh uh uh avoid the mountains and stuff.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:23.119
Yeah.
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.639
Start in Pomplona.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.199
Yeah.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.079
But who knows?
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:28.320
I don't know what kind of weather they have.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.840
It might get rainier.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:30.960
Yeah.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:31.360
Yeah.
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:34.960
I've definitely walked in the rain though, well, the whole day, you know, just pouring on you.
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:35.840
You're like, what the heck?
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:36.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:36.880
You know what I mean?
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.239
Yeah, that's not always fun.
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:38.719
Yeah.
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.800
And that's another thing I have to think about with my my granddaughter because it's gonna be a limited time.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:51.760
And if I do um a return trip, say I pay for the the return trip also, then we're gonna be limited as far as uh I mean you can always take a bus or a taxi.
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:52.239
Right.
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.039
So you you you need to be in a certain spot to fly home.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:56.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:03.519
So it'll be in Santiago on day like I think I like it's like from Lyon to Santiago is 200 miles.
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:04.000
Uh-huh.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:09.440
But it's it's one of the more difficult parts of the Francaise.
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:09.920
Uh-huh.
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:10.719
I think.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:19.599
Um, even though, unless you're young and you've but for the most part, for me at this stage of my life, it there's some difficult terrain.
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:26.800
And uh, so I think if you look it up, it says, you know, between 14 and 16 days you can do it.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.639
But I want to give our I want to give us maybe a few extra days.
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:30.880
Yeah.
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.239
So I can break up some of those longer uh stages.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:34.800
Right.
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:38.880
You know, and give you flexibility as if you have to take a rest or right.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:39.280
Yeah.
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:40.159
So that's cool.
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:40.800
Yeah.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.760
Now, what about let me ask you a few questions?
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:44.159
Yeah.
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.079
What what do you think it would cost?
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:47.599
Oh, I was gonna ask you that.
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:48.159
Oh, okay.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:50.159
Um well, I'm looking at that right now.
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:51.039
Yeah.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:56.320
Um I you want me to guess?
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:56.960
Yeah.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:02.400
Uh I'm gonna go with um 75 euros a day.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:03.679
For one or two?
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:04.400
For one.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.679
Oh, absolutely.
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:08.480
That's actually if you did 75 euro a day, you'd be fine.
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:08.960
Yeah.
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.679
Because with that, you could actually stay in private rooms.
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:16.320
Like sometimes albergues, they'll have like a bunk room, but you can say, do you have a private room?
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.719
And then that might be 20 euro instead of 12 euro.
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:19.280
Okay.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.000
You know what I mean?
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.000
So 75, you that would you could actually live pretty large, have big meals.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:26.639
No problem.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:26.960
Yeah.
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.519
Yeah, you could actually, yeah, that's not a problem.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:35.840
Because if you're on a like a tight budget, you figure in Alberghi right now is between 12 and 15 euro.
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:36.559
Yeah.
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.519
Um, your breakfast is about 10 euro.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:39.840
Yeah.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:41.760
Your lunch is about 15 euro.
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.400
Yeah.
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:48.000
And then your dinner, or your lunch could be like 25 euro if you want to, you know, that's your big meal.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.400
Yeah.
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.800
And then dinner is between 12 and 15.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:47:01.920
And they oftentimes serve the uh pilgrim's meal, which is um like chicken and fries, pork and fries, pasta, salad, wine, or water, and then like usually a melon.
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:02.239
Yeah.
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.719
I mean, so it that's across the whole.
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.440
Now I'm kind of a vegetarian.
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.719
What's what are the vegetarian options on the camino?
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:22.800
Well, morning coffee, banana, orange juice, and uh, they have these awesome, uh, these awesome um chocolate croissants that are decadent.
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:23.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:25.360
After like 12 of those, you're like, what am I doing?
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:27.280
But they fill the void.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:27.679
Yeah.
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.519
Um, so that's pretty consistent.
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:30.079
Yeah.
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:34.000
Um, then for lunch, you can get the salad.
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:35.920
They they do serve it with tuna.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:36.480
Oh, yeah.
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.119
As a protein.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:37.920
I'll eat that.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:38.320
Okay.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.559
So you get you can get that salad across the whole thing.
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:46.239
It's got like these white um uh asparagus, like the white asparagus.
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:46.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.119
Yeah.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:48.800
So that my wife usually eats that.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:49.360
Yeah.
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:56.239
And then for dinner, like say you're at a place, usually the first course would be pasta or salad.
00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.360
But you can say, can I have salad and then pasta for my mate?
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:00.559
And they'll be like, Well, okay.
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:00.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.159
So you can usually do that.
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:02.559
Yeah.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:02.960
Yeah.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:04.719
I mean, I probably would eat.
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:11.920
I'm not a real strict vegetarian, but yeah, I tend toward uh being more vegetarian than, but I'll I'll eat meat, you know what I mean?
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.400
But I don't I don't love lots of meat.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:14.800
Right.
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:16.559
I can eat meat like twice a week.
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:16.880
Yeah.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:17.599
You know what I mean?
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.079
And then I just don't, it's just heavy for me.
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:20.480
Right.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.760
So my constitution is more if I can keep it light, or I just eat Cheetos.
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.239
Yeah.
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.559
More of a Cheeto guy.
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:26.880
Yeah.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:31.519
So you can find it, but it's not gonna be like um sometimes you might have to look, you know what I mean?
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:38.639
Yeah, and then sometimes you come into a town and there's like um there's one, there's one Albergia that's vegetarian and the food is fabulous.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.679
Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:40.960
Sometimes you really hit it.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:41.440
Yeah.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:43.360
So um, yeah.
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.800
So 50 to 75 a day.
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:47.519
Yes.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:48.000
Yeah.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:53.119
Uh yeah, now I mean things are you know uh increased, they're they're increasing in in price.
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:59.039
So it used to be like, but sometimes you hit a uh a donation place where the you know you get five euro to sleep.
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.320
Yeah, but usually like you know, you you're gonna leave with bed bugs.
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.400
Yeah, so it's that's not uh not fun.
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.280
Uh you know, so that's it, that's a possibility too.
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:09.679
Yeah.
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.280
And the flights right now, so I'm looking at uh like between eight and a thousand.
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.400
Yeah.
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:18.559
That's uh you know the nature of it.
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:19.119
Yeah.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:23.840
So and I would fly from Boston to Madrid, from Madrid this year.
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.880
I'll take a high-speed train to Lyon.
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:28.480
Do you spend the night in Madrid?
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:29.760
No, we'll go right to Lyon.
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:30.639
Go straight to Lyon.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:32.559
Yeah, spend a night in Lyon.
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.519
Hopefully, with the afternoon, we get to see the uh cathedral.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.519
And they have a great brewery in uh in Lyon.
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:41.440
They're I always stop there.
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:50.000
Yeah, like Hopper just waited uh probably out in a couple hours has a coloring book, yeah, yeah.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.159
I just come on in and have a few beers with me.
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:52.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:57.440
Um but that cathedral, I've got to show that cathedral, it's just that beautiful.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.400
Yeah, but Leone has a ton of places to eat and stay.
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:12.559
Um my wife and I in 2015 we stayed at the Paradois, okay, which is like a usually an old monastery that's converted into like a one, two, three-star hotel.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:12.880
Yeah.
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:13.199
Right.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.639
And um, so we stayed there.
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:18.159
It's in the movie too.
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:20.719
You know, they're going through Leon, they stay there.
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.800
And uh Martin Sheen pays for all of them.
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:23.119
I don't know.
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:24.000
Do you remember that scene?
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.920
No, it's been a long time since I saw it.
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:31.519
And so uh so we stayed there, and the next day we met, we we we had met this kid before.
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:35.039
He was from uh I forget what he was from Brazil.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:36.719
His name was Cicero.
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.280
And uh he had a pack, you would not believe.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.840
He was camping out and he's rolling his own cigarettes.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:44.800
He was like, yeah, really a funky dude, really nice kid.
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:47.280
And he sees us the next day.
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:48.320
We're on the trail.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.079
He goes, Where'd you stay last night?
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.159
I said, I can't tell you.
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:53.519
I said, Where'd you stay?
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.280
Down by the river in my tent.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:56.960
He goes, No, where'd you stay?
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:58.000
He goes, In the park?
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:58.800
I said, No.
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.639
He goes, in Alberga?
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:01.920
I said, no.
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.280
He goes, Where did you stay?
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:04.960
I said, I'm not telling you.
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:06.800
So I never did tell him.
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:07.199
Yeah.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:08.159
I said, no, I can't.
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:09.360
But it's plush.
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:09.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:11.679
But I mean, I'm drinking the Gronies at the bar.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.880
I mean, it's just not not really for a true pilgrim.
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.280
Yeah, well, that's the beginning, though, right?
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:17.920
Beginning?
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:20.639
Was that the beginning of the that was your first night?
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.920
No, no, that's deep into the that was one of the last nights.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.159
Okay, so you know, yeah, you you earned it.
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:29.199
That year, maybe.
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:30.400
Yeah, we were a mess.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:30.880
Yeah.
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.079
We're the two most unlike uh unlikely pilgrims to finish.
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:34.480
Yeah.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:35.840
Or yeah, it was bad.
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:36.800
We were just a mess.
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:37.360
Yeah.
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.360
Um, yeah, that's cool.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:45.599
So ultimately, like this year for both of us, I'm thinking like if I have 7,500, that'll cover everything.
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:45.840
Yeah.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.599
And that's actually being very generous.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:48.000
Yeah.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.440
Because I don't know what's going to happen.
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.000
Right.
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.119
I think I could probably do it for a lot less.
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:53.679
Yeah.
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:54.480
You know.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:00.239
Um, so when you're in some of these albergues and you're you're kind of it's like dormitory style.
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.360
It can be.
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:06.159
Is that um how do you how do you like deal with?
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:10.239
I mean, are you okay with that as far as people snoring and oh yeah, I'm loud.
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:11.599
I'm the one snoring.
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.199
Uh last year was funny because one of the priests was a big dude, right?
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:16.239
He's like 6'4.
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:16.880
Yeah.
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:20.880
And he's just, and he he was snoring out of control, dude.
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:26.480
So the next morning, I like, I was like, we're with, I was with a few other pilgrims, and I said, dude, you snore out of control.
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:27.119
No, I don't.
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.519
And then that there's a woman from uh Denmark, she was oh yes, you do.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.440
He was like, Yeah.
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:34.400
I was like, whoa.
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:39.039
Well, plus you have the uh you have your recording equipment, you could always play it back far.
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:40.159
Yeah, right.
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.960
But uh no, I don't I can sleep through anything.
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.519
And I'm usually the one that's violating everyone else's pin.
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:48.800
And you're walking all day and you're tired, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:49.920
So yeah.
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:56.480
Um last year we actually ended up in a lot of very nice albergues as far as they were clean.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:57.039
Yeah.
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:59.119
And um that's what you want.
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.639
Yeah, just want it to be clean.
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:02.800
Yeah, and some of the bathrooms were awesome too.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:03.519
That's another one.
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:05.119
You want a decent bathroom, decent shower.
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:05.519
Right.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:06.320
You know what I mean?
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:07.039
Yeah.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:11.840
So, and they know, I mean, it's I mean, it's a high volume.
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:12.159
Right.
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:16.159
So the Franciis is like, you know, that's where you have most of the people.
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:16.639
Yeah.
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:19.440
And uh that's what I recommend.
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.760
But uh, you know, the Norte is probably the most beautiful, yeah.
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.440
The Portuguese, my wife loved the Portuguese uh Camino.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:34.480
There are different routes, there's central and there's coastal, and then there's one like we walked for like right on the coast on uh the boardwalk for miles.
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:40.480
Um, I didn't really like my wife loves the ocean, yeah, and uh I love the mountains.
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.840
Um I didn't I would never do the Portuguese again.
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:45.920
Yeah, so I didn't I didn't really like it.
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.320
They say it's the second most popular, uh-huh.
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:54.079
But I would advocate for the Frances, you know, and if not the norte.
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:58.960
Yeah, if people are in shape, yeah, you know, and you might have to take a few extra.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:00.559
I don't know what you'd have to pack.
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.679
Yeah, the lighter you pack, the better off you are, right?
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:07.199
Yeah, you can always dump stuff along the line.
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.800
And you can buy stuff too, right?
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:10.559
I dump a lot of stuff, yeah.
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:17.360
I have bought, I think, three or four um sleeping bags and have they have never come back with me.
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:19.280
So I'm like, I give them away.
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:20.239
Hey, you want to sleep bag?
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.039
So you have to bring your sleeping bag into the albergue?
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:32.239
Only like one albergue said you have to use a sleeping bag or at least um, you know, the um the liners, yeah.
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:34.239
Um, those are kind of recommended too.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:35.440
So the liner is tiny.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:36.239
I have one of those.
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:36.960
Okay, great.
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:37.360
Right.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.840
So that's what I if you go in the summer, that's what I recommend.
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:40.400
Yeah.
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:43.119
I think only once they told me I had a I had it.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:45.280
So I had to actually buy something.
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:45.679
Yeah.
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:46.880
And they had them.
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:48.239
And then I got rid of it.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:48.719
Yeah.
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:54.639
So for the most part, I would just go to well, I can remember one night we were in uh I forget what town it was.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:56.079
It was before Burgos.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:08.800
And there's uh, I don't know if it's a town, it was just there's this um church, and then there's uh an albergue, and uh and so um I was just sleeping in my t-shirt and my shorts.
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:18.159
Yeah, and I woke up at like two in the morning, kind of cold, like not freezing, but and so this massive pile of blankets, uh which is like the you know, not something you'd probably use.
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:19.920
I just went over and I said, I don't care, whatever.
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.239
And I just so whatever.
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.079
Yeah, I didn't get any bed bugs.
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.519
Although it was kind of a it wasn't the cleanest place in the world.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.119
Yeah, you never know.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:29.679
Yeah.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.960
Karen's been bitten three times by the bed bugs, yeah, yeah.
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:36.400
And she has allergy, uh, she's allergic to them, so she blisters.
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:37.760
Yeah, it's cool, it's not clean.
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:39.840
I've never had it, but Mary has.
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:40.800
She has, yeah.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:46.639
When we were in Hawaii, uh there was we were at a hotel and there was but they didn't get me, we were in the same bed.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:53.519
So yeah, no, I I I got bitten, but I I wasn't, you know, uh allergic to the bite.
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:56.239
So yeah, it's not good, but what are you gonna do?
00:55:56.239 --> 00:55:58.559
Yeah, it's the life of a life of a pilgrim.
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:01.199
And that's the thing.
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:07.599
I do love the the the um the pilgrimage for me definitely concretizes the fact that I'm a pilgrim here.
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:08.079
Yeah.
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:12.800
And the thing is, like I need to be reminded of that, I guess, every year.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:13.519
Yeah.
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:16.880
Because it's something that dissipates when you get back.
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:22.559
Yeah, you know, you you you hoard things and you buy things, but on the road, you're like, do I want to carry that?
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:23.119
Right.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:28.880
And that's where the attitude we should this is my this is my takeaway, is the attitude we should have as Christians.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:38.079
Like, do I really want to um do I want the world, you know, with all of its glit, yeah, glitz and glamour, or do I want Christ?
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:43.599
Yeah, and and the simplicity of of uh being a a Christian, right?
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.920
And so I think that you they're wedded.
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:50.880
I don't think you can really um divest yourself uh from that yeah that mindset.
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:51.840
That's my perspective.
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.480
I think that's the gift I've been given from the Camino.
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:58.480
Yeah, you know, like because I I always overpack every year.
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:00.320
Karen's like, you you do this every year.
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:00.880
What's your problem?
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:01.840
I've I don't know.
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:06.320
Yeah, and then I'm like, like even this equipment, do I really want to bring it?
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:06.800
Right.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:11.519
But I I do I mean you're that's part of your your your thing.
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.480
You're doing a podcast, you need you need that, right?
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.960
So that's cool.
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:18.639
And you bring all these microphones and everything?
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:20.079
I bring one mic.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.119
No, actually, I bring both mics, I don't bring the stands.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:23.599
Uh-huh.
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.639
And so I bring these cords, I bring both mics, and I bring this.
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.400
People just hold the hold the microphone.
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:28.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:37.840
Which is not the best though, because a lot of times it they fade, and then like I had a couple of uh podcasts that I can't use because like the sound was off.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:38.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.920
So this is ideal.
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:41.440
Yeah, but I'm not carrying this.
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:41.920
Yeah.
00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:43.280
Because it does add up.
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:44.239
Oh, yeah.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:45.519
On the body, too.
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:49.760
Like, I told you, I think in 2024, I had a lot of stuff.
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:53.039
I had all of this, I had my computer.
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.599
I probably had 20 more than 20 pounds.
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:59.360
They they say they recommend you should carry 10% of your weight.
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:00.719
Yeah.
00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:03.519
So that's it, that's a good thing to live by.
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:07.119
And so I started, I was fine, you know.
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.679
But instead of getting stronger, I got weaker.
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:10.079
Yeah.
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.239
So by the end, I was a mess.
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:12.719
Right.
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:15.679
I had done 400 miles and I was like, I can't, I'm done.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:16.880
Yeah, I was just done.
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:17.199
Yeah.
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:19.599
You know, I had blisters, I was just old.
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:20.239
Yeah.
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:21.199
I felt it.
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:31.360
I can remember getting to this one stage, and we had you have to climb this um rocky mountain um up toward O Sabrero, a town that I I really love.
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:35.760
And I was with this kid from Minnesota, not a kid, he was in his 40s.
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.360
I go, Eric, just go.
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:38.159
He goes, What?
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:39.840
I go, just leave me.
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:42.079
I said, I am not doing well.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:42.719
He goes, really?
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:43.920
I said, no, just leave.
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:48.480
And so he just he left, and uh, which was to his benefit.
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:50.880
And I crawled up that mountain, right?
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.880
And then it started pouring, dude.
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:57.519
But it uh the it was covered by foliage, so you know, so the the path was kind of covered.
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:10.400
So I get up to this uh La Faba or something, this small town uh before O Sobrero, and I stopped there for the night, and he's texting me, Oh, what what um don't you have a room in O Sobrero?
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:13.360
I said, I do, but yeah, I'm not gonna make it.
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:14.639
You can have it.
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:16.960
So I stayed there that night.
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.800
Yeah, I was I really struggled.
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:19.119
Yeah.
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:23.360
And then I only went for another day or two before I just gave in.
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:23.760
Yeah.
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:24.159
Yeah.
00:59:24.159 --> 00:59:25.119
So you never know.
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:25.679
Yeah.
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:27.119
But the lighter the better.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:27.920
Yeah.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:29.199
That's it.
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:29.920
Yep.
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.599
Anything else?
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:33.280
I don't think so.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:35.280
Um I'm I'm looking forward to it.
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:35.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:38.960
So uh what route would you um tend toward?
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:46.480
Well, I'm an ocean guy, so I might like Karen's uh the Portuguese.
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:47.840
Oh, or the norte.
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:49.599
Or or because it's up in the mountain.
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:51.199
This is up in the mountains down to the shore.
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:52.480
And I do like the mountains too.
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:53.440
So that's depends.
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.000
I don't know.
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:54.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:55.360
Yeah.
00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:01.440
But you're gonna have it's gonna be a different experience because there's gonna be less pilgrims, they're gonna be usually more fit.
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:02.159
Right.
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.800
It it's the it's the athlete's pilgrimage.
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:06.320
It's the most difficult.
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:07.760
Yeah, yeah, I would say that.
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:09.360
But um, yeah, I don't know.
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:10.960
I'll have to Portuguese is cool.
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.800
You should watch the movie.
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:15.519
Supposedly there's a sequel.
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:16.559
Oh, is there?
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:23.199
That was the uh that was the word on the last Camino they were saying that was uh they were gonna walk the Portuguese, huh?
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:24.400
So I hope so.
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:28.719
And then you've probably told me this before, but how did Martin Sheen get involved?
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:29.760
Did he do it?
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.000
No, this well, this is really crazy.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:36.559
So Martin Sheen's father is from Galicia, that's what Santi, that's where the uh cathedral is.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:42.800
So he always kind of wanted to do it, and so uh I think uh he was doing the West Wing.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:43.440
Oh, okay.
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:51.039
He didn't have time to do it, so he took a tour of the Camino with a friend and his and Emilio's son.
01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:56.719
So Emilio's son, his name is either Taylor or uh I don't I don't know what his name I think it's Taylor.
01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:58.719
So the three of them were driving it.
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:01.199
Like any good American, I drove the Camino.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:01.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.920
And uh In an El Camino.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:20.800
So they said he um tells a story where um they stop at this Albergue and his grandson, um, so they stay at this albergue.
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:25.920
So he the grandson meets this girl and falls in love, right?
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.960
And he says to Martin Sheen, Papa, I'm staying here.
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:30.880
You're not staying here.
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:31.760
Yeah, yes, I am.
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:32.559
Because no.
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:35.280
Anyway, they eventually, like five years later, got married.
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.159
Oh wow, right.
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:41.519
So he does fall in love, and uh, the wedding is at this house that they're thinking you went there, right?
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.440
Yeah, we ended up there, which is off the camino.
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:44.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:53.840
And we ended up uh the uh this woman's brother, we meet him, he takes us to that house and we stay there and we meet his parents and they're in the movie.
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:54.159
Uh-huh.
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.960
I'm like, there's no way you can end up there, it's just impossible.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:57.280
Right.
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:58.480
Because it's off the camino.
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:58.960
Yeah.
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:04.719
But um, so then Emilio wrote the movie for his father.
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:05.280
Uh-huh.
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.880
And uh when he showed them uh the script to his father, he goes, Yeah, you know what?
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:11.280
This is I'm I'm no longer an A actor, right?
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:12.320
I'm on the decline.
01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:13.840
He goes, No, Dad, I wrote this for you.
01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:16.559
Yeah, and so that's how uh that came about.
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:17.199
Yeah.
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:18.079
Wow.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:19.519
Very interesting.
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:20.000
Yeah.
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:21.519
So I hope they do a sequel.
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:21.920
Yeah.
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.800
It's like Mel Gibson's doing uh the resurrection, right?
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:27.440
He is, yeah, it's gonna come out in two parts next year.
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.840
It's gonna come out like months uh apart.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:33.199
It's interesting.
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:35.519
Yeah, he's a character, yeah.
01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:37.280
That he is, yeah, yeah.
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:39.039
So that's awesome.
01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.320
I'm glad you're you're into it.
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:41.039
Yeah.
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:47.280
And uh the the the um the uh saying on the road is buen camino.
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:47.920
You say that to everyone.
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:48.159
Yeah.
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:51.440
Buen camino, which means good journey, a good road, and stuff like that.
01:02:51.440 --> 01:03:01.119
And uh it's interesting because um sometimes you see someone, you say that to them, and then like days later you end up in a conversation with them, you know, oh I saw you two towns ago.
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:06.960
Yeah, but that's the the you know, the the commonality is you're all on pilgrimage, which is true for us uh in life.
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.199
Right, yeah, but we don't recognize that.
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:09.679
Right.
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:12.000
And uh like we're in competition with each other.
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.199
We're on the Camino, you realize, well, what competition?
01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:15.760
Right.
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.320
Like, you know, this is good for you, it's good for me.
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:20.400
Like there's no yeah, you know, yeah.
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:27.199
And so that's uh that's another concept that uh I think since I've started the Camino, I've grappled with like competition.
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:28.159
Is it really healthy?
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:30.480
I mean, as Americans, we're like, oh, it's definitely healthy.
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:32.239
You want to compete to be your best.
01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:36.239
Is it really it shouldn't we cooperate so that people can get there together?
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:37.360
Sure, yeah.
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:38.239
I don't know.
01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:39.840
Yeah, what do I know?
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:43.519
Yeah, one thing about the Camino is a lot of time to think, dude.
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:44.719
Yeah.
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:49.679
You walk and when you walk, I was just reading Walking by Thoreau last night.
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:50.159
Uh-huh.
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:50.960
That's a good piece.
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:51.440
Yeah.
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:53.119
I don't think I've ever read it.
01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:59.519
Um, is it a com is it a standalone piece by Thoreau?
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:00.159
I've definitely read it.
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:03.360
It's an essay that I think he maybe maybe it was a lecture.
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:03.760
Okay.
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:05.280
It sounds like a lecture, yeah.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.880
But it does stand alone in some volumes, and then it comes with other stuff too.
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:09.599
Yeah.
01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:10.559
It's really good.
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:11.760
It's very biblical.
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:12.639
Uh-huh.
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:13.519
I'm sorry.
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:20.559
I read a book once, um, I think it was called Peregrination or something like that, and it talked a lot about that.
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:21.119
Really?
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:21.519
Yeah.
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.280
And it was all about walking.
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:32.639
The whole book was like, I don't know if it was all focused on uh pilgrimages, but it was like the benefits of of long distance walking.
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:33.360
Right, right.
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:37.599
But I think a lot of you know, obviously Thoreau did supposedly Beethoven.
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:40.320
That's where he did a lot of his composition.
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.639
He would walk every day through the through the woods.
01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:43.119
Really?
01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:43.360
Yeah.
01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:44.159
A lot of philosophers.
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.639
And he could write, you know, he could write it in his mind.
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:48.960
He didn't need to like put it on paper.
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:49.360
Really?
01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:51.519
But he did it, like his ideas came.
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:57.599
I find like I do that too if I'm because I try to walk like you know, a few times a week, like at least an hour.
01:04:57.599 --> 01:05:08.719
And it's you know, it is a time where you can just um it's it's a thinking time, you know, because you're just alone by yourself and you're not distracted or so.
01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:09.199
Yeah.
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:12.159
Well, that's another actually uh a recommendation.
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:14.239
Like so Karen would listen to music.
01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:15.599
I tend not to.
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:20.400
Yeah, sometimes I'll play music out loud if I'm with like to kind of just share it with someone, you know.
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:24.719
But I think uh I would recommend that you just try to embrace the experience.
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:32.960
Yeah, I think I don't think I would listen to music while I was I I've I've never I know people who like a lot and they'll listen to music the whole time.
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:33.360
Yeah.
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:36.480
And I I I've never done that really.
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:36.880
Right.
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:37.840
So I don't usually do that.
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:38.320
Yeah.
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:43.519
But I will play some songs like just to like uh whatever, bring someone into my world.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:43.920
Yeah.
01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:45.360
You know, some punk rock or something.
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:45.840
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:47.679
Usually usually the clash.
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:48.079
Yeah.
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:52.159
Yeah, no, I'm so happy that you're uh Yeah.
01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:52.639
Yeah.
01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:55.119
I it won't be this summer, but maybe next summer.
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:55.679
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:55.840
Yeah.
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:58.079
I think you guys will like you love it.
01:05:58.079 --> 01:05:58.400
Yeah.
01:05:58.400 --> 01:05:59.599
You know, I don't want to impose that on you.
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:01.039
Because you might hate it.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:01.280
Right.
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:02.159
But I don't think so.
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:03.199
No, I doubt it.
01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:05.920
You know, I did meet a guy from Seville, maybe.
01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:07.039
I don't know if I told you the story.
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:08.079
Is he a barber?
01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:11.199
I don't know.
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.559
But uh he was a phys ed teacher in Spain.
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:15.599
He said, every summer.
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.000
I he was sitting on a bench, so I just sat next to him, right?
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:18.719
I was lonely.
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:18.880
Yeah.
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:20.400
It was probably 2016.
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:25.039
And uh and so he tells me, you know, he's a phys ed teacher, blah, blah, blah.
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:27.679
Every summer usually goes to a beach or something, you know what I mean?
01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:31.519
And he said, So we'll I so he started he got off and I said, Do you mind if I walk with you?
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:32.559
So we're walking a little bit.
01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.119
And he and he said, I'm having a horrible time.
01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:35.840
I hate this.
01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:36.480
I'm like, really?
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:37.440
You hate this?
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.800
And he goes, Well, do you like to travel to me?
01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:42.480
And I said, No, I don't like to travel at all.
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:43.840
He goes, Do you like to walk?
01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:45.280
I said, I'm not really a walker.
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:46.400
He goes, Why are you here?
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:47.119
I said, I'm praying.
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:47.840
It's a pilgrimage.
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:49.119
I'm here to pray, you know.
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:50.400
And he started laughing.
01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:53.280
But uh, yeah, he said he he hated it, which is unusual.
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:54.800
I that's that's unusual.
01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:55.360
Yeah.
01:06:55.360 --> 01:07:09.199
But sometimes you meet someone like I know remember in 2015, Karen and I met this young woman from the States, and she was she said, you know what, if I don't find some companionship soon, I'm going home.
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:09.679
Yeah.
01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:16.079
So she was looking for someone to walk with, which is huh, you know, and we weren't the the couple that she wanted to walk with.
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:17.280
Not you guys.
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:24.000
So that's once in a while, but for the most part, people are um are happy to be there.
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:24.719
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:25.199
Yeah.
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:28.400
And it's so countercultural.
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:29.199
Yeah.
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:29.679
Yeah.
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:30.559
You're walking.
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:30.880
Right.
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:31.840
That's all you're doing.
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:32.320
Yeah.
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:34.239
And you don't have to prove anything to anyone.
01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:34.639
Right.
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:39.039
So I it's a it's really uh no, I see you guys as like you'll love it.
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:39.519
Yeah.
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:40.320
Yeah.
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:42.719
Start getting their plans together.
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:44.480
All right.
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:45.679
Well, thank you very much.
01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:48.239
Hey, thanks for thanks for having me in the conversation.
00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:18.480
Hello, and welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones, a podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St.
00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.399
James are interred beneath the high altar.
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:24.960
I'm your host, Robert Nurney, and I want to welcome my good friend Stephen Lighty.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:31.039
We've known each other for many years as Providence teachers, and um I just want to say welcome, Steve.
00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:32.399
Hey, thanks for having me.
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:33.439
Oh, no problem.
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:34.560
My pleasure.
00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:39.280
So Steve and his wife Mary Ann are interested in walking the Camino in the near future.
00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:45.759
So today's episode will be a conversation about the Camino, a give and take, a qu uh question and answers.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:50.320
So, Steve, tell me, how did you hear about the Camino?
00:00:50.329 --> 00:01:01.200
Steve: Uh, I think the first time I heard about it was from you, and um, I believe you lent me the um the uh movie with um Martin Sheen.
00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:02.159
Martin Sheen.
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.319
So that was uh my first introduction to it.
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.519
What did you think about the movie?
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:06.159
I loved it.
00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.799
It's been a long time since I saw it, but uh, I should watch it again.
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.000
Yeah, yeah, you should.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.560
I've only seen it like 72 times.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:14.959
Uh one of my favorites.
00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:16.719
Um actually, when I first saw that, I didn't like it.
00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:17.599
I thought it was slow.
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:26.879
A friend had recommended it, and Karen and I sat, I I think I bought the DVD back then, and she fell asleep, and I'm going, I don't get this movie at all.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:28.560
So it's kind of ironic.
00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:29.040
Yep.
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:30.079
Um, all right.
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.000
So was it appealing when you I I know you have a sense of adventure.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.439
I know that you love to I know you love to uh to walk and bike.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:38.079
Yeah.
00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:54.480
So um, yeah, I th I've I've never done like a long hiking trip, you know, more like day hikes and stuff, but uh I think it would be uh definitely a a challenge and uh you know, and especially doing it in a foreign country as well.
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:55.920
I think it would be really interesting.
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.719
And and then you tie in the um, you know, kind of like the religious aspect of it.
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.040
I think it would be definitely right.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:04.079
That's a good question.
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:09.840
So on my um my Caminos, uh the big question is why are you here?
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.120
That's that's a common question.
00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:18.479
Yeah, and so uh, you know, at night when you're drinking uh you're sharing wine, wine and food with other pilgrims, yeah, you get into that conversation.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.599
And so it's it's there's a number of reasons why people go.
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:27.120
You know, it's cultural, it's uh historical, it's um uh religious or spiritual.
00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:31.599
So what would be the driving reason for you and your wife to to make the Camino?
00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:46.240
Um I think the first one would probably be more of like the adventure part and you know, hiking in a in a I've never been to Spain, um, so I think that would be really interesting.
00:02:46.240 --> 00:03:07.360
I I'm not a um a devout Christian by any means, but I think being on a like a a religious or a spiritual pilgrimage would be um interesting and seeing other people doing it, I I would find that pretty um, I don't know if entertaining is the right word, but uh uh very interesting.
00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:08.080
Right, right.
00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:08.400
Yeah.
00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:12.319
It definitely is uh there's a uh a sense of adventure.
00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:36.159
Um when when I first went with my wife in 2015, um booking.com wasn't as you know, I don't know if it was it wasn't relevant at the point or wasn't, you know, but uh the computer definitely has had an impact on the Camino because you can you know you can go, you can make sure that you have a uh a place to stay, yeah, and and stuff like that, which takes away from the experience, I think.
00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:36.560
Right.
00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:42.719
It gives you that sense of security, where I think that uh for me it's more about trusting in God.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.479
Yeah, but it's such a and then you're like, well, maybe I should do it, maybe I shouldn't do it.
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:47.759
So that's one I'm thinking about.
00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:51.599
Like, so this year I'm supposed to go with my granddaughter, yeah.
00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:57.039
You know, for and so I'm figuring out what's the best route or the best stages to to take her on.
00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:00.159
And uh so I have to be conscious, you know, she's 10 years old.
00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:07.599
I mean, she's mature for her age, but uh, you know, so um, and do I want to book the whole way?
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:08.000
Right.
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:13.840
Or do I do I want to teach her like you know, there is a God and we can trust in his providence and yeah, yeah.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:26.720
Um not that you would do it with your with your granddaughter, but would it is it possible or do people do it without any um technology and just and wing it?
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:28.560
Yes, very few though.
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:37.439
Yeah, it's not like it's not as uh common as as you might think, but yeah, I would I would say if you can do it that way, definitely do it that way.
00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:38.480
Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.720
Um because well, let's take the Francais, for instance.
00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.120
It's it's way marked the whole way, yeah.
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:53.839
So you have yellow arrows and you have the shells, you know, that um symbolize the uh those are the the symbols of the the Camino.
00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:58.560
And uh so it's hard to get lost in you going west on the on the Francais.
00:04:58.560 --> 00:04:59.120
Yeah.
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.480
There are other paths that are not as well marked, you know.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.920
The Norte, my wife and I were on the Norte for one day.
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.439
So um, yeah, I mean you can definitely do it.
00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:10.480
You can do it, you know.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.839
Uh there are people that do it with like a day pack, right?
00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:14.639
You know what I mean?
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.040
And they just have a few things to change into.
00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:23.600
So what would happen if you walked into a town late in the evening and there was nowhere to stay?
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:24.160
Right.
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:42.000
So I have heard stories about that, and I've I've encountered that a few times, but um some of the stories were, you know, one guy from Germany, he said I was, you know, in this town, this particular Albergue was was filled, and he said, Listen to the guy, I'll I'll sleep on the floor.
00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.040
I need a place to stay.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:44.160
And so he slept on the floor.
00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:45.199
So they let him, yeah.
00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.399
Yeah, so um because camping is illegal.
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:59.279
It is like wild camping is illegal, but I've seen it done, yeah, you know, because uh uh just the fact that the country's so big and right, you know.
00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:03.120
But um there are places, there are towns that do have campsites, a few.
00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.519
So I mean that's a a possibility.
00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:10.240
But I would not and people aren't really carrying like tents and camping gear.
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:10.639
No.
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:16.800
So if you show up at a at a campsite, do they have equipment for you or that's a good question.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.839
I never used uh I don't know, I'm not sure.
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:26.160
I do know I've met people with um with tents, and so uh but so I mean there's definitely places to pitch a tent.
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:26.560
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:27.279
You know what I mean?
00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:29.279
Uh they don't want fires, obviously.
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:31.040
Last year there were wildfires.
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:31.839
Yeah.
00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:36.879
But last year I was walking with the two Dominican priests and we got into a town and we hadn't booked anything.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.160
I think I told you um I I recommended that we pray on the way for a place to stay.
00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:42.879
Yeah.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:45.759
My wife and I would do that often.
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:53.439
Uh so we were doing that, and we'd end up and it seemed providential, like we'd meet people that and the priests would have discussions about faith with them and stuff.
00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:54.800
I like, oh, this is cool, you know?
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:55.040
Yeah.
00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:56.639
And I got my interviews.
00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:01.839
And then one day we kind of we came into a town and it was it was probably pretty warm that day.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.680
Uh the temperatures were like between 85 and 100.
00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.560
Yeah.
00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:08.319
So we were kind of burnt out.
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:12.480
We go to a an albergue, closed, complete, you know, filled.
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:16.319
And then we go to another one, and that was filled, and they were like, What the heck?
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:24.399
So someone dialed ahead and found an albergue like a mile and a half um further west, yeah, that was empty.
00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.199
And so we we walked there and you know it was no problem.
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.079
But the next day they're like, That's it, we're booking from here on in.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:36.000
Yeah, so I don't know, with uh with my granddaughter, I'll see.
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:43.920
Yeah, I mean it's probably probably better to take some precautions with a kid, right?
00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.800
Yeah, but if I had to recommend, I would say no, just go and and give it to the Lord.
00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.439
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:52.959
Because um sometimes you end up in a really cool place, right?
00:07:52.959 --> 00:08:09.120
You know, and we've met people, well, one woman in particular from Australia, and she said that um at times because she had her dog with her, that she was not allowed to stay at the Albergues with a dog, and so she stayed with uh townspeople.
00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.560
That's cool.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.240
She may have had a tent too.
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:15.600
Yeah, so that's cool.
00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:16.079
Yep.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.879
So any particular questions that you'd like to answer if say if you're going tomorrow.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:22.800
What kind of shoes should I wear?
00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.199
That's probably one of the best questions.
00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:25.439
Okay.
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:31.920
So for the first nine, I used oboe's, uh-huh, which is I think it's American-made, but it's a pretty heavy um shoe.
00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:33.440
I didn't have a boot, okay?
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:36.320
So uh strong bottom, yeah.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.200
And um I had blisters.
00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.080
I get blisters anyway because of the way I strike, my kid strikes.
00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:50.240
But last year, I went to uh Roadrunner in Providence, yeah, and the guy recommended this light Mizuno sneaker.
00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:53.919
It might have been a cross trainer or something, but it was light.
00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:54.320
Yeah.
00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:55.600
And so I used that.
00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.559
I still got blisters, but it was like it was ideal.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.960
Yeah, it didn't rain, so it didn't get wet.
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.399
Um, but I don't think that's it, that's key anyway.
00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:09.440
I don't I don't think you know uh um a rain a Gore-Tex rainproof shoe even matters.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:12.080
But it it doesn't rain much anyway, right?
00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.480
It can, but it can.
00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:16.879
But it's a dry, it's a dry country.
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:17.840
It's pretty dry.
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:18.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.679
I've had I've walked in rain before though, like far.
00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:22.480
Yeah.
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:23.440
So it can.
00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:23.919
Yeah.
00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:28.240
Um if you're in the mountains initially, it might rain or even s sleet.
00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:29.360
Yeah, you know.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:33.039
But so this year I'm gonna go back to the uh I left those in Spain.
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.159
I leave a lot of things in Spain.
00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:34.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:35.200
Yeah.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.799
And then uh they um I'm gonna go back to that.
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.039
I'm not gonna wear a hiking shoe.
00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:41.519
Yeah.
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:42.399
You know.
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:50.879
If you're doing the 500 miles, if you're going from like uh San Jean to Santiago, maybe something uh a little firmer than the Mizuno.
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:51.360
Yeah.
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:53.279
But it's up, you know.
00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:57.279
The the the key is that you buy it early and you train with it.
00:09:57.279 --> 00:09:57.679
Right.
00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.039
You know, give it some time.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.120
So you make it through with one pair of shoes?
00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:04.320
It's not like the Appalachian Trail where you have to go through like four or whatever.
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:06.399
No, yeah, that's that's totally different.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:06.879
Yeah.
00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:08.720
And the Camino is very civilized.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:11.039
The Appalachian Trail is rougher, yeah.
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:12.879
Yeah, I could never do it now with my hips.
00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:13.440
Yeah.
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:22.799
You know, no, the Camino for the most part, if you go in the Francaise, the first day you go up into the Pyrenees and um And that starts in France?
00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:24.399
That starts in southern France.
00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:29.039
Yeah, you know, that's the most the most popular route is is the Francais.
00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:33.039
But a lot of people start in different places on the like this shell start in Lyon.
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:39.679
Yeah, you know, but you go up into the mountains and then down into so you're still in France, then down into Spain.
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:46.320
And then so the first couple of days, the next day you have to come out of the mountains and you're going down this shale path, which is kind of tough.
00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:56.720
Yeah, and then after that, it's very civilized for and then at the end you have another mountain range, but by then you've walked over 400 miles.
00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:57.039
Yeah.
00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:58.399
So it doesn't so you're okay.
00:10:58.399 --> 00:10:59.039
Yeah, you're fine.
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:01.360
So um, is there like a border crossing?
00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:02.639
Do you have to like show your passport?
00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:08.080
No, no, there's you you do cross into Spain, but yeah, there's not a gate with a guard or anything.
00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:08.559
No, yeah.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:10.960
I don't even know where it is, somewhere in the mountains, you know what I mean?
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:21.679
Yeah, you're coming down into Espana, yeah, you know, and uh that first day is cool, yeah, because the the Pyrenees are beautiful, yeah, and they're like wild horses up there and stuff.
00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:22.159
Uh-huh.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:32.080
And um some people do the the full stage, which is like 17 miles, but it's more like 24 miles because of the elevation.
00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.240
Yeah, and then even coming down is difficult.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.080
It can be harder a lot of times.
00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:40.080
But um, so I've gone over, I've done that in one day.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:45.919
Most people do it one day, but I would recommend I although I recommend that you stay up in the mountain.
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:52.320
There are two places you can stay because it's just uh uh you only have to walk like six miles, yeah, and then you can hang out, yeah.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:12:03.919
Um, maybe seven miles, and then um and it's a it's probably one of the best places to stay because you're up in the mountains, um, you meet people, and those people usually become friends for the rest of the journey.
00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.039
Which is awesome, yeah, yeah.
00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:07.840
You know what I mean?
00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:21.440
And um so there's Horusan, which is just Orison's on the map, but it's really just this Albergue, private Albergue on the right, and then they have like picnic tables on the left, and you can just you can stay there.
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:26.960
And um there's a newer one that I stayed at two years ago.
00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.960
I forget what it's called, but it's up on the left, another one kilometer up on the left.
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:40.159
And this uh gentleman bought the property and redid it, and uh he is the your host and the chef, and he's kind of a comic.
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:47.759
Yeah, so that you know, at night when you're eating with the uh other pilgrims, he has you introduce yourself and stuff, and then he he has comments and stuff.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:48.240
Uh-huh.
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.039
It's pretty cool.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:50.720
Yeah, that's what it's all about, dude.
00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:53.600
The the the communal meal is the is the best.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.879
Yeah, but not those are not always easy to come by.
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.279
Right.
00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:58.080
You know what I mean?
00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.120
But that is what you want right out of everything you want to you want to eat with the pilgrims, hanging with the pilgrims, yeah.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.240
It's the best.
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:11.039
Um, so what's your uh what's like the daily mileage or kilometerage?
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:11.759
Right.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:13.360
Okay, well, no, that's a good question.
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.240
So I have I brought these two guide books.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.000
These are probably the most popular.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.519
Yeah, that's like the definitive.
00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:23.120
The the gentleman just died recently, but I think his daughter's taking that over.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:29.919
And so the stages they um they depict the stages in both both that book and this book.
00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:31.840
This is an easier one to read.
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:41.039
Um and so I would say between 14 miles and 19 miles would be, you know, according to these stages.
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:42.240
Kind of the average, yeah.
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.720
Yeah, so probably like 14 to 15 would be the average, which is a lot.
00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:47.279
Yeah.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.720
I mean, it's one thing you do one day, but as I get older, it's a lot.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:51.200
Yeah.
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:56.879
Um but day in and day out, you it's uh it's a pounding on your feet, that's the thing.
00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.080
Yeah, that's why you want to carry the lightest pack possible, right?
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:07.919
Um it's interesting the title, a practical and mystical manual for the modern day pilgrim.
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:14.240
So as far as the mystical part, what is the guidebook?
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:23.279
Is it he has um in this one, he has um he has uh paragraphs that kind of like remind you why you're there and stuff.
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.440
I mean if you really read this as you go, yeah.
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:34.399
I've never done that, but uh usually you know he's got um all of the uh albergues per stop with their phone numbers, so this is updated every couple of years.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:38.559
Yeah, you know, but most people now are using uh using their iPhone.
00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:39.120
Right.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.960
You know, their apps that you know I'd rather have a book personally, yeah, yeah.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:43.519
You know what I mean?
00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:45.759
So I usually take I'll take this one this year.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.320
Yeah, you know, it's easier to to read.
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:48.960
Yeah.
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:55.039
Um, yeah, I would say, but some people like you know, some people do more mileage.
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.679
I met I mean you meet people that are doing crazy miles, you know.
00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:59.840
Like one guy, oh, I do 40 kilometers a day.
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:06.639
I'm like, I met this one dude from uh I don't know if it was Sweden or Switzerland.
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:12.159
He was walking in the morning, running in the afternoon, so he wasn't carrying his pack, he was sending that ahead.
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.440
You can do that for five euro.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:21.440
And he uh just had like a camel pack on, you know, and he was doing um he was doing 40 miles a day.
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:22.720
Wow, that's nice.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:23.440
Like, what?
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:32.159
Yeah, but he's also an ultra marathoner as far as you know, but I was like, that's that and that I think you have to decide what is this, what what is this for me?
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:32.639
Right.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.960
If you're doing it for a test of endurance, great, do 40 miles a day.
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:37.120
Right.
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:46.799
But if you want to like meet pilgrims and and you know commune with the place, it seems like going a little slower might be better.
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:57.600
Well, last year I met um a gentleman from uh from the UK, excuse me, Kamal.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:03.600
So a Hindu, although he never told me he was a Hindu, but he's Indian.
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.000
Yeah.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.879
And he did I tell you this story?
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:07.600
I don't think so, no.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.960
All right, really cool guy.
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:14.879
So he has this Indian food restaurant in Santiago called uh Camino Curry.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.600
And it was open when I was there, it had been open for like 54 days, you know.
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.600
And he was working with his son, I think his son's name is Dev.
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:32.480
And um so he said that he just he had seen something about the Camino and he uh told his wife, I think I need to do this.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:33.679
She's like, What?
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:34.559
What are you talking about?
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.960
This is Camino, I need to do it.
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:42.080
And then uh so he he uh did it, I think, in 2024.
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:43.840
Or was it 2025?
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.200
Maybe 2025.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:58.720
And uh so he got in the flow, he was like following, you know, he started in Saint Jean-Pied de Port, so he was gonna do the 500 miles, you know, 800 kilometers, and uh he said he he was walking everyone else's pace.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:04.000
Then he's and someone said, you know, Kamal, the Camino will be here tomorrow.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.680
Yeah, you know, and he said, What?
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:12.400
He goes, You walk your own Camino, yeah, and so he just totally like um slowed down.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:19.680
Yeah, and he said, instead I said, I just I I was the last one to leave the Albergie every day, so I'd wait until because you have until like eight o'clock in the morning.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:19.839
Yeah.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.279
When they threw me out, that's when I left.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.279
Because people are getting up at five, four.
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:23.839
Right.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.240
I do not recommend walking in the dark.
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:26.880
Right.
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.039
I just it's even though people oh we're gonna get up at it's just a waste.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah.
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.839
Unless you have like I know there's there's one reason uh that I would agree with.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:44.960
People want to go, um, they want to get up early and see the sunrise um over the um Cruz de Ferro, which is uh is a special place.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:45.920
Yeah, that's different.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:46.799
You want to see the sunrise.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.839
So that's like a one-day thing.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:49.119
It's a one-day thing, yeah.
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:56.720
And usually you're walking from this town, Fancy Bedon, which is you know what I mean, it's it's only meters away.
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:57.039
Right.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.559
So it's not like you, but I think it's dangerous, and I don't think it's it's worth it.
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:01.039
Right.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.680
And you're not seeing anything a few feet in front of you, but if you're lucky, right.
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:12.559
So he started walking slowly, and he said, Um, I had brought um a number of spices to cook with.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.599
And he said I would every night I would cook for pilgrims.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.200
And uh that's what I did.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:24.799
And he said uh then when he got back to um England, he uh said to his wife he had to go back.
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.759
And when he went back, he's like, Oh, I need to open the restaurant.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.519
Yeah, so a really cool guy.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.599
So I I contacted him recently.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.400
I said, Hopefully I'll see you this uh this summer.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.559
Yeah, you know the restaurant's still open, right?
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.359
So they're gonna reopen it in March, so they closed it, I guess for the winter.
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:41.279
Oh, they closed in the winter for the winter, yeah.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.759
And he went to India this this winter and he did like this massive uh tour of India, you know what I mean?
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.799
On foot?
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.960
No, trains and all this other yeah.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.000
So he's but he's from England, or he lives in England, yeah.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:54.880
He's from England, yeah.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.480
Wow, very interesting, dude.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:01.359
Yeah, and like that was that's the spirit of the Camino, like walk your own pace, right?
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:02.720
If you're fast, you're fast.
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.640
Yeah, if you're not, you're not.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:05.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.759
You know what I mean?
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.279
Because I'm not, yeah.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:12.400
Yeah, but I would say the average would be about 14 miles a day, yeah.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.079
Which is plenty, right?
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.039
But some days, some stages are actually 19 miles, like 18, 19, that's a long day.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:25.119
Yeah, you know, you're walking, you're on the road to like for well, I on the road to like five o'clock.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.759
That's with a with a lunch and hanging out, but right.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:34.319
So is it typical kind of like to take a long siesta during the the heat of the day?
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.319
Well, a lot of pilgrims will try to beat the heat.
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:38.640
Yeah.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:45.279
So they'll walk, you know, say they get up at 6, 6.15, they're on the road at 6 30, they try to get into town by one.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.319
Okay.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:47.359
That's never me.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:47.920
Yeah.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:49.599
But that's they try to beat the heat.
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.000
So my wife and I have Oh, and then they're done for the day?
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:52.640
They're done.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.240
So do do you ever do like, you know, 7 a.m.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.839
to 11 and take a few hours off and then do more in the afternoon?
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:00.400
I do that.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:00.880
Oh, yeah.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.440
Because that seems reasonable to me.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:03.839
Right.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.000
And you just cover, you know, you wear a hat, make sure you get covered up and you're gonna sweat.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:08.400
Yeah.
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.240
You know, especially in July and August.
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:10.799
Right.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.759
But I find, yeah, Karen and I like sometimes we're the last people that walk into town.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.079
Yeah.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.279
And people like you guys.
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:22.000
And then these are sort of boring technical questions, but like, where do you get your water and stuff?
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.079
Do you buy it or do you is there like right?
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:26.480
So we oftentimes buy it, yeah.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.519
Right, but every almost every town has a fountain and you can just fill up.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.839
Yeah.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:32.640
Yeah.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.279
You could almost but sometimes you get in and the town, you're like, this isn't really a town.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:37.519
Yeah.
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:43.839
It's deserted and like all the houses are empty, and uh, so some town towns that the fountain doesn't work.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:44.079
Yeah.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.759
And it'll tell you if it's drinkable or not.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.640
Right, right, right.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:46.960
Right.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.160
But most of the most of the fountains in the towns are are drinkable.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.319
What do they say, potable?
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:52.960
Potable?
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.519
I always say potable, but I some people say potable.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:56.160
I don't know.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:59.119
Uh yeah.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:00.240
No, that's an important thing.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.880
That's because you know, hydration is probably the most important thing.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:03.279
Right.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:05.599
And if you hydrate early, you're better off.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.359
Because I've been dehydrated, yeah.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:08.480
Where I'm just out of my mind.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.880
Yeah, and you just get so tired hiking.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:11.200
Yeah.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:12.799
And you don't realize why.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:13.759
No, it's true.
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:14.240
Yeah.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:14.640
Right.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.559
So you can never drink one one town.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:21.599
I I um there was a masseuse, you know, and so I got my massage for 15 euro.
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.839
And the guy goes, You need to drink way more water, dude.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:25.680
Yeah, you need to drink two liters a day.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:26.799
I'm like, two liters?
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.200
Yeah.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:28.400
I don't come close to that.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:28.799
Yeah.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.799
You know, a liter is like a quart-ish, right?
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.640
I don't know.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:35.279
Yeah.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:36.000
It's like this.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:36.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:37.839
You know, I mean, two of those.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.519
But you you probably need it.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:40.720
Yeah, and you're sweating it out.
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:41.200
Yeah.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:41.759
Yeah.
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:43.680
So huh.
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:44.880
Interesting.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:59.839
Um, so my other question, sort of, as you and I have like an English teacher background, what's um do you have any like uh inspiration as far as as like literature that's based on pillars?
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:11.359
Pilgrimages like the Canterbury Tales, or I'm also like thinking of uh do you know Matsuo Basho's um The Narrow Road to the North?
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.000
No, it was like a Japanese uh haiku.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:14.720
Oh really?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:27.039
And it's it's sort of like a haiku uh um uh sequence, but it it also has narrative in it, but it's all about and he's visiting different like holy places in Japan.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:27.680
Oh wow.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.839
So are you were you influenced by any of that kind of well?
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:42.480
My wife and I before um let me see what year I forget when we read this, but uh actually when in in Providence, there was uh in our anthology um at Providence College?
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.160
No, in no in the Providence School system.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.119
Oh, okay.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:50.079
So one of the anthologies for like British Lit, um was it British Lit?
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.680
They had a little section on pilgrimage, probably prior to uh Canterbury Tales.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.599
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.680
And they mentioned a book, The Art of Pilgrimage.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:03.519
So I bought that, and we've read that twice, and that's all about pilgrimage, all different religions, all different, you know.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.559
So that's a pretty cool book.
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:05.359
Yeah.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.480
Um it's very it's a little dense.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:08.960
Yeah.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.880
And so we read that a couple times.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.920
But the Camino itself produces a ton of literature.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.720
Like I'm reading a book right now, I forget the guy's name.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:21.440
He's from Australia, and he was um he had written some project.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:31.920
He had written something and he made some money from this writing, and he was re retiring, and he was really out of shape and stuff, you know, and so he he uh decides to walk the Camino.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.599
But he goes from like, I don't know where he starts, Granada or something.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:37.119
It's a different, you know, it's sort of southern.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:42.480
Yeah, and so there he doesn't have a lot of you know um fellow pilgrims on these routes.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.200
Yeah, you know.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.400
So I'm getting through that.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:45.519
It's it's really well written.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.400
He's a good writer.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:24:02.000
Um, he gets into the history of uh of like um of the country as far as like uh the Islamic influence, yeah, and then um Franco, just a lot of uh stuff that I you know it's it's it's all right.
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:04.799
Gives you some background on the Spanish history, yeah.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:06.480
Which is interesting.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:26.079
Do you find that like most of the I'm sort of thinking of like um you know how Joseph Campbell has the uh the hero's quest, and sometimes the hero is um like the reluctant hero, like um isn't uh is it Bilbo or Frodo in Lord of the Rings?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:28.319
Like they don't want to go on the quest.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:34.240
Do you feel that are most people gung-ho in the beginning or or or even for yourself?
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:41.359
Were you like, I'm not sure that I'm gonna be able to pull this off, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyway?
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:51.599
Or yeah, no, that you definitely meet um, I mean, that's part of uh my experience, and I think I've met people like that too, you know, because uh because you never know.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah, you know, so um, and then you meet people who are like, oh, they can conquer almost anything.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:57.359
Yeah.
00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.119
So I think it's more of a personality thing.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.240
For me, it's I always go with like I never know what the Lord wants.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:11.759
You know, like one year I ended up um I wanted to go, I wanted to start, I think, in uh I think I was gonna start in southern France.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.440
And then I got to Madrid and my flight to Pampolona was canceled.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.880
I was like, what?
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.079
And they said, uh, we're gonna get you there by bus.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.440
I said, I'm not taking a bus there.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.960
So I just started in Madrid.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:25.440
Yeah.
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:27.599
And so there is a Madrid Camino.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:28.000
Uh-huh.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.079
But no one, no one does it.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:30.400
No one.
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:32.319
I met two guys, I think they were drunk.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.680
But uh so I I ended up coming home early on that.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.039
It was just was a very difficult, very lonely experience.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:43.759
And uh, yeah, so I so I give it to the Lord, like I don't know what's gonna happen.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.559
See what happened.
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:54.880
Yeah, but I had one of the best, not the best, but I actually I was by myself and I had to cross, I had to get over this mountain to uh Segovia.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:01.200
So my walk to Segovia was probably it was really, it was a crazy day.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:02.640
I had to do 20 miles.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:12.559
I had just like um I think I had uh half of a ham sandwich, and uh I was up in the mountains and uh there were no way markings.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:16.079
Yeah, um this wild boar goes flying by me.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.000
I was like, what am I doing here?
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:18.240
Yeah.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:25.920
I come out of the mountain, um, down from the mountain, and I see this guy in a truck, and I'm like, I said, I gotta see if I I can get a ride to Segovia.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.559
So I go up to the guy, I go, Segovia, can you give me a ride?
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.680
He's like, No.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.720
He points on the horizon.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:38.079
You can see like this little whatever, like you know, the uh the city of Segovia.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:39.440
He's like, Segovia.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:40.319
I'm like, what?
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.559
I said, please, no, Segovia.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:44.480
It was really at least he pointed the way.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.359
Yeah, right.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.599
I crawled into that town, dude.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.720
I was really struggling.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.359
Yeah, but uh, yeah, that was definitely um one of those Caminos that uh I was like, Lord, why am I here?
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:56.799
Yeah, like what am I doing?
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.000
So uh how many times have you done it by yourself?
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:02.400
Oh, that's a good question.
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:09.599
Uh 2016, um 2024.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.920
Um maybe three times by myself.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.519
I like going by myself because um you can just decide, you know what I mean?
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.200
Like it like this year I'm going like for my granddaughter.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:23.599
Right.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.519
So it's not gonna be about me, right?
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.960
Like, how do I help this kid get you know from Leone to Santiago?
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:30.960
Yeah, you know, so and what does she need?
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.200
She needs to get on a bus, we get on a bus.
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.000
You know what I mean?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.519
I I can't let my ego get in yeah, yeah.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:39.359
You know, so that's it's a different experience.
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:41.119
Yeah, I'd say three.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:41.680
Uh-huh.
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:42.240
Yeah.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:48.000
And you enjoy that because you're kind of picking up like comrades along the way.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.119
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.400
Like in 2024, I was almost never alone.
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:52.799
Yeah.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.519
You know what I mean?
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.200
People from all over the world.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.079
But uh, but when I wanted to be alone, I could be alone.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.480
Right.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:59.440
You know, yeah.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.519
And I still did what I wanted to do.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:01.920
Right.
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.680
You know, which sometimes seemed weird to other people, but yeah.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:19.039
Um, I still talk to uh this um a young man, well, he was 33, he's 33 now, um, Alessandro from Italy, and he texts me, messages me, Robert, you are the president of the Camino.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.160
He was really funny.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.640
Yeah.
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:23.839
Um, yeah.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:30.400
And so you do um see people from year to year that you recognize.
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:31.920
Once in a while.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.640
Yeah.
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:42.079
The the the story that I tell is that in 2015, my wife and I, that was our first Camino, and we really didn't know what it was about.
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.559
Right.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:47.039
You know, and so we're taking buses and taxis, but you're trying to hide from other other pilgrims.
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:50.799
You don't want to, you know, get spotted as a pilgrim on a bus.
00:28:50.799 --> 00:29:07.119
But um, so we take this car, a taxi, into town, and we go to the first cafe, um, and there's a guy behind the bar with a counter, and he uh so he introduces himself as um as Robert.
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.559
I go, I'm Robert too.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.400
He goes, You talking to me?
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.640
The day was was Manny.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.200
Okay, but he he he looked a little bit like De Nero.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:15.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.799
And so uh so he said, Come back tonight.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.960
We have a uh a donation dinner.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:27.039
So I I serve um paella, and uh, you know, I invite any pilgrim that comes in today.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:36.480
And so we went back that night for dinner, it was awesome, and um everyone told their stories, and he would translate into English or into Spanish or whatever.
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.920
So it was a lot of fun.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:47.039
And at the end, I gave him you know the money, my our donation, and I gave he gave me a hug and he said Buen Camino, which everyone says, and many more.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.279
And I I said to him, You're crazy, dear.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.599
I'll I'll never come back to this country.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:30:03.279
Yeah, and uh so two years later, 2017, we're gonna we're on the meseta and we're going to another different town, and he is the um the host of a of a different albergue.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.000
I go, Manny, he goes, I don't know you.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.640
Yes, you do.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.640
And so we stopped and had lunch there.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:10.960
Yeah.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:11.839
So once in a while.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.400
Although I I did see um, yeah, I mean it's it's crazy.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.039
Sometimes you see people like that you've met before.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:18.400
Yeah, you know.
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:20.319
Um that's cool.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.200
That is cool.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:38.960
So what's the um, you know, obviously you talked about how some people are doing it just because they were doing like the the hiking challenge, but like what's your sort of like religious um ritual, not ritual, but what's your religious practice during the day like average day?
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:40.559
Are you okay?
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.039
Well, last year was different because I was with two priests.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:43.519
Yeah.
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:46.799
So they were they're obligated to say certain prayers.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:47.200
Uh-huh.
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.319
So they would pray together on the on the road, and I wouldn't As they're walking?
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.119
Yeah, they would, yeah.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.559
And they say it out loud?
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.559
Yeah, because it's kind of like choral.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.279
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.720
All right, so they're Dominicans, so they're almost like they're kind of monastic.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.680
Yeah, you know, they're not monks, but they're there's a monastic aspect.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.880
So when they pray, they pray in choir, you know.
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.079
So the ones, you know, this side says something, that side says something.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:08.400
Yeah.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:10.160
And they often sing their prayer.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.720
Uh-huh.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.039
So um, which is very monastic.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:13.440
Yeah.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:14.000
You know.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.640
So they um, so one non-negotiable was mass every day.
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:19.119
Uh-huh.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.200
So we were getting up and they would they would find a place um in the Alberga to say mass.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.960
You only need a little corner, you know.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.119
But then it got really warm and they said we want to leave earlier.
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.039
So let's say mass at midnight.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.599
So they started waking me up at like quarter to twelve.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.200
We'd have mass at midnight.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:38.319
It's only 20 minutes.
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:38.640
Yeah.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.440
And you'd go back to bed, and we'd get up early and walk in the dark, which is sort of yeah, yeah.
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:48.240
So that was uh, so that was kind of superimposed, but the mass was beautiful, you know what I mean?
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.079
So every day we had mass, every single day.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:50.480
Yeah.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.759
And then I'd say my rosary.
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.559
But for me, when I'm on my own, I usually say the full rosary in the morning.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:56.880
Uh-huh.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.039
So I'll just pray the rosary the whole way.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:05.119
And then I also will do the Jesus Prayer, which is um, have you ever read uh The Way of the Pilgrim?
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:06.799
No, it's a cool book.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.240
It's about a Russian pilgrim.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.079
I think it's uh anonymous, I don't think there's an authorship.
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:23.440
And uh he basically he's just a pilgrim and he walks you know from town to town, and yeah, he um he looks for charity as far as where he's gonna sleep, what what he's gonna eat.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.240
But he says the Jesus prayer so Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me as sinner.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:34.799
So that's his prayer over and over and over and over again until it seeps into his heart and it becomes part of his his being.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.279
Yeah.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:43.519
I I pray that a lot on the Camino because it's simple, yeah, and um, and it gives me um it gives me a focus.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:43.839
Yeah.
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:48.960
So those two the rosary and then the Jesus prayer are two big prayers for me.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:53.599
And uh and then if I can get to mass, which is not always guaranteed, you know what I mean?
00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:02.319
So along the along the trail, there might be I'm I'm assuming like in Europe, most of the small little villages all have a church.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:02.880
Yes.
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:10.799
So you can stop each wherever and you well, I guess you have to time it right because they're not doing mass all day or no, right?
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.039
But sometimes you come into town and there's no mass because there's the priest isn't from that town.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:15.519
Right.
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.079
And he does a visit or rotation, right?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:18.400
Yeah.
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.599
But you can always stop in and and visit the churches, right?
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:30.000
Which is uh they're usually available and they're probably nice and cool and shady compared to or musty sometimes.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.640
I mean, they're like sometimes they're like, you know, 800 years old.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.720
Yeah, it's not like you know the states.
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:44.000
Um, but along the way, are there like big um sort of uh spots or famous spots that you would stop as a pilgrim?
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.960
I know at the end you stop at a cathedral, right?
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:47.599
Right.
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:59.279
So um if you start in Saint Jean, right, and you um so the let me think there's an evening mass, a pilgrim mass in Ransay Svais, right?
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:10.559
So if you go over the mountain, you get to the uh they have this huge um albergue, which was a monastery, I think, uh converted into a pretty nice, it's one of the nicer um alberges.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:13.440
And so the it's like there's not much there.
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:26.559
There's that albergue, and then there's like a like a plaza or like a square, and then there's a church on the left, there's a hotel on your right, and I've stayed there a few times, and um, so that mass is is big.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.280
Everyone goes to that mass, and then there's a blessing at the end, you know, in different languages.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.920
And so that's the mass is usually said in Spanish.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:36.559
So that's that's one that everyone goes to.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:37.119
Okay.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:44.239
And then um a couple days later, you're in Pamplona, they have uh they have a cathedral there.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:57.920
And so I went to I went I went to Mass there in the morning, and then uh, of course, Burgos has a beautiful, crazy cathedral, like a thousand, you know, maybe 900 years old, but it's yeah, really beautiful.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:58.159
Yeah.
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:06.159
So there's mass there in the morning, and then Lyon, another beautiful cathedral, one of my favorites, um, Gothic, of course.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.920
And I think I've been to Mass there too, but definitely Santiago.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.480
They have the the noon mass, is the pilgrim's mass.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:12.880
Uh-huh.
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:20.000
And so everyone tries to get into Santiago, they go and get their um their compostella, and I'll show you that.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:20.480
Oh, yeah.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.079
And this is the credential.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:23.920
So you Oh yeah, you get your stamps.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:25.760
Yeah, you get your stamps all along the way.
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:26.159
Yeah.
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.480
Oh, okay.
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:27.679
And this is last year.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:29.920
Um, and these are kind of new.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.880
These this was last year was a oh, it's like a wax sealing.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.320
Yeah, these people on the side of the road would uh would have these little blocks of wax, yeah, and they charge you two euro.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:40.800
Yeah.
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:41.840
So that's cool.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.599
Yeah, that's a new uh something.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:48.719
What is the um the uh symbolic reason for the shell?
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.079
That's a great question.
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.840
Well, I don't know if I can tell this accurately, but um so St.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.719
James went to evangelize Iberia, right?
00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:00.480
So he went to um evangelize Spain and he was unsuccessful.
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.679
He came back to Jerusalem and was beheaded by Herod.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:04.159
Uh-huh.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:08.320
So he was the first to die, as far as the uh the apostles go.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:22.880
And then his uh disciples took his body and they put it into a stone boat, and it somehow got back to the uh Iberian Peninsula, and uh so um I'm not sure.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:26.960
So the scallop shell would be like attached to that that journey.
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.840
Okay, you know, the ocean voyage, yeah, yeah.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.159
And there's more specifics too, you know what I mean?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:42.239
And the body wasn't found for years, and then finally it was found in uh so it was found with the bones of two or maybe two of his disciples, so it's not just his bones.
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:43.119
Yeah.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:55.679
Um, and so also when did the I see a lot of the stamps on the um the passport or whatever you call it, kind of has this that's your credential the pilgrim uh figure.
00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:05.760
Is that was there somebody who as far as the history goes, was there like somebody who did it the first time or when did it become a a pilgrimage?
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:21.519
Well, 814 Alphonse II, who was like uh I guess I don't know if he was the the king or the he went from Oviedo, so the Primitivo is one of the uh options, and it goes from Oviedo into uh Santiago.
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.920
It's um that was the first one.
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:25.599
Okay, so it's 1200 years.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:26.800
Yeah, wow, yeah.
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.079
Saint Francis has done it, Charlemagne, supposedly.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.719
I'm not sure if the if that lines up.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.360
Yeah, wow and that's the stamp from the cathedral.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:37.599
That's the your final stamp.
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:38.639
Wow.
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.679
Then 20% of the pilgrims go on to the uh the ocean.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:44.320
Yeah, finistier, which is the end of the the earth.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.440
Yeah, and so that would be a separate compostella.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:47.679
Yeah.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:49.280
Did you ever do that?
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.559
No to the ocean?
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:51.840
No, I would like to do it.
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:59.679
Yeah, I don't know if it's in the cards, but uh, I'd like to do that uh actually in the year if we're still around.
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:08.159
Um in the year 2033, it's gonna be a a holy year, and uh I'll be what 70 or something?
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.599
So I would like to do it then.
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:10.000
Yeah.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.599
This is your compostella.
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.159
So it's just oh you get that when you're completed.
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:15.679
Yeah, this is for free.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.119
This is three euro.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.840
They get you on the container.
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.960
That's Latin.
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.920
It just and they list you as Robertum journey.
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:25.519
Yeah, Latin.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.000
Yeah.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:34.639
But um, yeah, so at the end of your journey you show them your credential and they give you the compostella saying that you've uh completed the uh wow camino.
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.920
You have to walk at least um a hundred kilometers.
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.719
Yeah.
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.039
That's really it's kind of funky, huh?
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:43.920
Nicely done, yeah.
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:46.400
So I have a bunch of those in my house.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:47.199
Yeah.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:49.440
Wow.
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:54.320
They print it out like they have a computer or something.
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.440
Because your name Yeah, I don't know.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.119
I did they do have computers.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.320
This one was a little different.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.119
So usually you go into the pilgrim's office and you queue up.
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:05.519
Yeah.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.440
And then it's in the movie too at the end.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.400
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.239
And uh when it's your turn, you go to the counter and they ask you some questions.
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:15.760
You know, what was your reason for doing it?
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:17.199
Was it religious, cultural?
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.199
Yeah, and uh, did you walk the whole way?
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.440
Yeah, and stuff like that.
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:26.480
And uh and then they they take your name from the credential and and put it down.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.000
Yeah, but last year they sent us downstairs, no, around the corner, then downstairs, and there was no cue, and we talked to you know, a couple people at the counter.
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.960
So I don't know what the deal is, if they're breaking it up or something, but uh if you're not in a group, I don't know why we went downstairs, but it didn't feel the same.
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:44.480
Yeah, I was like, I don't like this.
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:45.280
Yeah.
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:51.199
So in the last 10 years, it's basically been about 10 years since you've done it or that you started.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:51.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:51.760 --> 00:40:00.719
Do you feel like um it's changed at all as far as like the the the people that are doing it and the reasons they're doing it?
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:06.639
Like, has Instagram like that influenced um yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.719
Uh I think essentially it's you know, it's the same.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.280
Yeah.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:22.880
But uh it's funny you say that because I interviewed these two gentlemen from New Zealand, and uh they were making some great posts, and one guy goes, It's all for the gram.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:23.920
And I didn't understand that.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.280
I thought you were talking about cocaine.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.159
I was like, what?
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.960
Anyway, this one had to say, no, that's the instant.
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.239
I said, Oh, it makes sense.
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.239
And uh they were really funny, yeah.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.480
They were just two crazy guys, dude.
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:35.360
You know what I mean?
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.320
And one was like a national swimming champion, huh?
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.239
Really tall, crazy dude.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.800
Is he could he could walk like you would not believe.
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:43.440
Yeah.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.800
And uh the other one was uh they were good friends.
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.559
The other one was uh like a bodybuilder and stuff, and they were just nice, nice people.
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:50.960
Yeah.
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:52.880
And uh, so I have they're on the the public.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:41:04.880
So even the um, you know, the Instagram uh the influencers or whatever you call them, there's you feel like this their spirit is still like uh in the right place for the absolutely, yeah.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:09.039
I think that um I mean this is I mean it it attracts all kinds, you know what I mean?
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:24.159
Yeah, and unlike like Rome or Jerusalem, um, or like Lords of Fatima, you know, which are very Catholic, this is a Catholic pilgrimage, but it attracts um such a diverse crowd because of the nature of it.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:32.960
Yeah, you know, um it has an appeal, I think, that is not institutional, even though it's like this institutional sure, yeah.
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.360
It it it lacks that when you're in when you're actually on the road, you don't feel it.
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:44.960
Not at all, yeah, you know, and even uh even in Santiago, you know what I mean, you don't feel it.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:51.679
I mean it's just a very um it is mystical, it's very mysterious, yeah.
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:59.360
And the beauty is that you have these people from all over the world, and uh for the most part, 90, 99% of the time, everyone's getting along.
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.000
Yeah, different philosophies, different theologies.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.199
Yeah, and uh people are just very open to each other.
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:12.960
I think they're uh you could say, like, okay, you know, that most of these people, these pilgrims, tend to be seekers anyway.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:13.599
Right.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:19.280
And they're not, you know, but I think that is I think that does violence to like who knows?
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:19.840
Yeah.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:20.559
Who knows?
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:26.639
I mean, like in any given year now, it's almost 500,000 people are do the Camino.
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.880
Now, they don't make, you know, some people don't make it to um Santiago, right?
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.079
So they don't register.
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:32.639
Right.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:43.199
So the the uh cathedral might say, oh, this year, you know, 250,000 people registered in Santiago, but you have a lot of Europeans that just do weeks at a time, right?
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:48.320
Yeah, people like myself and my wife who didn't get to Santiago, yeah, you know what I mean?
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:52.239
So uh a lot of people are out there, yeah.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:00.800
Um and what's the um you obviously can't do it in the winter, right?
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.639
You can, uh, but a lot of the albergues are closed.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.679
So most people if you probably try to wrap it up by like November, somewhere in that range.
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:17.119
Yeah, I would never suggest a winter hike, but people do it.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:19.679
So when do the albergues close?
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.800
Uh I'd say some October, some November.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:26.719
It might be interesting to kind of do it slightly off season.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.519
I think, yeah, it would definitely be interesting.
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.800
Yeah, you know, um, you might have to carry a little bit more.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.280
Right.
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.920
You might, unless you can, you know, you can layer too.
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:36.559
Yeah.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.760
It would be interesting.
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.519
So if you left, I mean the movie actually they end November seventh in the movie.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:42.159
Oh, okay.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:43.760
Which is off season almost.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.159
Yeah.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.840
And the colors in the movie are pretty in interesting, you know what I mean?
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.000
The color of the fields and the fields and everything.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:56.880
But um if you left October and uh walked into November, I think that would be cool.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:57.440
Yeah.
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.840
You know, I don't think you'd have a problem staying anywhere.
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:00.559
Yeah.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:06.079
And uh I think uh it would be very um I think you'd have a lot of quiet time.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:06.559
Right.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.719
So I would recommend that.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:09.280
Yeah.
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.559
But uh for myself, I don't think I'd ever go into uh into December or January.
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.880
Because you're going into the mountains and who knows.
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.960
Unless you could drop down, you know what I mean?
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.800
Like you could uh uh uh avoid the mountains and stuff.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:23.119
Yeah.
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.639
Start in Pomplona.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.199
Yeah.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.079
But who knows?
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:28.320
I don't know what kind of weather they have.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.840
It might get rainier.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:30.960
Yeah.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:31.360
Yeah.
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:34.960
I've definitely walked in the rain though, well, the whole day, you know, just pouring on you.
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:35.840
You're like, what the heck?
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:36.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:36.880
You know what I mean?
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.239
Yeah, that's not always fun.
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:38.719
Yeah.
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.800
And that's another thing I have to think about with my my granddaughter because it's gonna be a limited time.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:51.760
And if I do um a return trip, say I pay for the the return trip also, then we're gonna be limited as far as uh I mean you can always take a bus or a taxi.
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:52.239
Right.
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.039
So you you you need to be in a certain spot to fly home.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:56.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:03.519
So it'll be in Santiago on day like I think I like it's like from Lyon to Santiago is 200 miles.
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:04.000
Uh-huh.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:09.440
But it's it's one of the more difficult parts of the Francaise.
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:09.920
Uh-huh.
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:10.719
I think.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:19.599
Um, even though, unless you're young and you've but for the most part, for me at this stage of my life, it there's some difficult terrain.
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:26.800
And uh, so I think if you look it up, it says, you know, between 14 and 16 days you can do it.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.639
But I want to give our I want to give us maybe a few extra days.
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:30.880
Yeah.
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.239
So I can break up some of those longer uh stages.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:34.800
Right.
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:38.880
You know, and give you flexibility as if you have to take a rest or right.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:39.280
Yeah.
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:40.159
So that's cool.
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:40.800
Yeah.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.760
Now, what about let me ask you a few questions?
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:44.159
Yeah.
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.079
What what do you think it would cost?
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:47.599
Oh, I was gonna ask you that.
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:48.159
Oh, okay.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:50.159
Um well, I'm looking at that right now.
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:51.039
Yeah.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:56.320
Um I you want me to guess?
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:56.960
Yeah.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:02.400
Uh I'm gonna go with um 75 euros a day.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:03.679
For one or two?
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:04.400
For one.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.679
Oh, absolutely.
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:08.480
That's actually if you did 75 euro a day, you'd be fine.
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:08.960
Yeah.
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:11.679
Because with that, you could actually stay in private rooms.
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:16.320
Like sometimes albergues, they'll have like a bunk room, but you can say, do you have a private room?
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.719
And then that might be 20 euro instead of 12 euro.
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:19.280
Okay.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.000
You know what I mean?
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.000
So 75, you that would you could actually live pretty large, have big meals.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:26.639
No problem.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:26.960
Yeah.
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.519
Yeah, you could actually, yeah, that's not a problem.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:35.840
Because if you're on a like a tight budget, you figure in Alberghi right now is between 12 and 15 euro.
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:36.559
Yeah.
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.519
Um, your breakfast is about 10 euro.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:39.840
Yeah.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:41.760
Your lunch is about 15 euro.
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.400
Yeah.
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:48.000
And then your dinner, or your lunch could be like 25 euro if you want to, you know, that's your big meal.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.400
Yeah.
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.800
And then dinner is between 12 and 15.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:47:01.920
And they oftentimes serve the uh pilgrim's meal, which is um like chicken and fries, pork and fries, pasta, salad, wine, or water, and then like usually a melon.
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:02.239
Yeah.
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.719
I mean, so it that's across the whole.
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.440
Now I'm kind of a vegetarian.
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.719
What's what are the vegetarian options on the camino?
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:22.800
Well, morning coffee, banana, orange juice, and uh, they have these awesome, uh, these awesome um chocolate croissants that are decadent.
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:23.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:25.360
After like 12 of those, you're like, what am I doing?
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:27.280
But they fill the void.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:27.679
Yeah.
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.519
Um, so that's pretty consistent.
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:30.079
Yeah.
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:34.000
Um, then for lunch, you can get the salad.
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:35.920
They they do serve it with tuna.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:36.480
Oh, yeah.
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.119
As a protein.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:37.920
I'll eat that.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:38.320
Okay.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.559
So you get you can get that salad across the whole thing.
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:46.239
It's got like these white um uh asparagus, like the white asparagus.
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:46.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.119
Yeah.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:48.800
So that my wife usually eats that.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:49.360
Yeah.
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:56.239
And then for dinner, like say you're at a place, usually the first course would be pasta or salad.
00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.360
But you can say, can I have salad and then pasta for my mate?
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:00.559
And they'll be like, Well, okay.
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:00.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.159
So you can usually do that.
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:02.559
Yeah.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:02.960
Yeah.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:04.719
I mean, I probably would eat.
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:11.920
I'm not a real strict vegetarian, but yeah, I tend toward uh being more vegetarian than, but I'll I'll eat meat, you know what I mean?
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.400
But I don't I don't love lots of meat.
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:14.800
Right.
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:16.559
I can eat meat like twice a week.
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:16.880
Yeah.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:17.599
You know what I mean?
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.079
And then I just don't, it's just heavy for me.
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:20.480
Right.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.760
So my constitution is more if I can keep it light, or I just eat Cheetos.
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.239
Yeah.
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.559
More of a Cheeto guy.
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:26.880
Yeah.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:31.519
So you can find it, but it's not gonna be like um sometimes you might have to look, you know what I mean?
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:38.639
Yeah, and then sometimes you come into a town and there's like um there's one, there's one Albergia that's vegetarian and the food is fabulous.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:39.679
Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:40.960
Sometimes you really hit it.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:41.440
Yeah.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:43.360
So um, yeah.
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.800
So 50 to 75 a day.
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:47.519
Yes.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:48.000
Yeah.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:53.119
Uh yeah, now I mean things are you know uh increased, they're they're increasing in in price.
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:59.039
So it used to be like, but sometimes you hit a uh a donation place where the you know you get five euro to sleep.
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.320
Yeah, but usually like you know, you you're gonna leave with bed bugs.
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.400
Yeah, so it's that's not uh not fun.
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.280
Uh you know, so that's it, that's a possibility too.
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:09.679
Yeah.
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.280
And the flights right now, so I'm looking at uh like between eight and a thousand.
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.400
Yeah.
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:18.559
That's uh you know the nature of it.
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:19.119
Yeah.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:23.840
So and I would fly from Boston to Madrid, from Madrid this year.
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.880
I'll take a high-speed train to Lyon.
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:28.480
Do you spend the night in Madrid?
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:29.760
No, we'll go right to Lyon.
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:30.639
Go straight to Lyon.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:32.559
Yeah, spend a night in Lyon.
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.519
Hopefully, with the afternoon, we get to see the uh cathedral.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.519
And they have a great brewery in uh in Lyon.
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:41.440
They're I always stop there.
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:50.000
Yeah, like Hopper just waited uh probably out in a couple hours has a coloring book, yeah, yeah.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.159
I just come on in and have a few beers with me.
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:52.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:57.440
Um but that cathedral, I've got to show that cathedral, it's just that beautiful.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.400
Yeah, but Leone has a ton of places to eat and stay.
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:12.559
Um my wife and I in 2015 we stayed at the Paradois, okay, which is like a usually an old monastery that's converted into like a one, two, three-star hotel.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:12.880
Yeah.
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:13.199
Right.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.639
And um, so we stayed there.
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:18.159
It's in the movie too.
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:20.719
You know, they're going through Leon, they stay there.
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.800
And uh Martin Sheen pays for all of them.
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:23.119
I don't know.
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:24.000
Do you remember that scene?
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.920
No, it's been a long time since I saw it.
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:31.519
And so uh so we stayed there, and the next day we met, we we we had met this kid before.
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:35.039
He was from uh I forget what he was from Brazil.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:36.719
His name was Cicero.
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.280
And uh he had a pack, you would not believe.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.840
He was camping out and he's rolling his own cigarettes.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:44.800
He was like, yeah, really a funky dude, really nice kid.
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:47.280
And he sees us the next day.
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:48.320
We're on the trail.
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.079
He goes, Where'd you stay last night?
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.159
I said, I can't tell you.
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:53.519
I said, Where'd you stay?
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.280
Down by the river in my tent.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:56.960
He goes, No, where'd you stay?
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:58.000
He goes, In the park?
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:58.800
I said, No.
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.639
He goes, in Alberga?
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:01.920
I said, no.
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.280
He goes, Where did you stay?
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:04.960
I said, I'm not telling you.
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:06.800
So I never did tell him.
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:07.199
Yeah.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:08.159
I said, no, I can't.
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:09.360
But it's plush.
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:09.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:11.679
But I mean, I'm drinking the Gronies at the bar.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.880
I mean, it's just not not really for a true pilgrim.
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.280
Yeah, well, that's the beginning, though, right?
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:17.920
Beginning?
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:20.639
Was that the beginning of the that was your first night?
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.920
No, no, that's deep into the that was one of the last nights.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.159
Okay, so you know, yeah, you you earned it.
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:29.199
That year, maybe.
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:30.400
Yeah, we were a mess.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:30.880
Yeah.
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.079
We're the two most unlike uh unlikely pilgrims to finish.
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:34.480
Yeah.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:35.840
Or yeah, it was bad.
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:36.800
We were just a mess.
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:37.360
Yeah.
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.360
Um, yeah, that's cool.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:45.599
So ultimately, like this year for both of us, I'm thinking like if I have 7,500, that'll cover everything.
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:45.840
Yeah.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.599
And that's actually being very generous.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:48.000
Yeah.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.440
Because I don't know what's going to happen.
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.000
Right.
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.119
I think I could probably do it for a lot less.
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:53.679
Yeah.
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:54.480
You know.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:00.239
Um, so when you're in some of these albergues and you're you're kind of it's like dormitory style.
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.360
It can be.
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:06.159
Is that um how do you how do you like deal with?
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:10.239
I mean, are you okay with that as far as people snoring and oh yeah, I'm loud.
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:11.599
I'm the one snoring.
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.199
Uh last year was funny because one of the priests was a big dude, right?
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:16.239
He's like 6'4.
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:16.880
Yeah.
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:20.880
And he's just, and he he was snoring out of control, dude.
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:26.480
So the next morning, I like, I was like, we're with, I was with a few other pilgrims, and I said, dude, you snore out of control.
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:27.119
No, I don't.
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.519
And then that there's a woman from uh Denmark, she was oh yes, you do.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.440
He was like, Yeah.
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:34.400
I was like, whoa.
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:39.039
Well, plus you have the uh you have your recording equipment, you could always play it back far.
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:40.159
Yeah, right.
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.960
But uh no, I don't I can sleep through anything.
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.519
And I'm usually the one that's violating everyone else's pin.
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:48.800
And you're walking all day and you're tired, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:49.920
So yeah.
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:56.480
Um last year we actually ended up in a lot of very nice albergues as far as they were clean.
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:57.039
Yeah.
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:59.119
And um that's what you want.
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.639
Yeah, just want it to be clean.
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:02.800
Yeah, and some of the bathrooms were awesome too.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:03.519
That's another one.
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:05.119
You want a decent bathroom, decent shower.
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:05.519
Right.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:06.320
You know what I mean?
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:07.039
Yeah.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:11.840
So, and they know, I mean, it's I mean, it's a high volume.
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:12.159
Right.
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:16.159
So the Franciis is like, you know, that's where you have most of the people.
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:16.639
Yeah.
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:19.440
And uh that's what I recommend.
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.760
But uh, you know, the Norte is probably the most beautiful, yeah.
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.440
The Portuguese, my wife loved the Portuguese uh Camino.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:34.480
There are different routes, there's central and there's coastal, and then there's one like we walked for like right on the coast on uh the boardwalk for miles.
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:40.480
Um, I didn't really like my wife loves the ocean, yeah, and uh I love the mountains.
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.840
Um I didn't I would never do the Portuguese again.
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:45.920
Yeah, so I didn't I didn't really like it.
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.320
They say it's the second most popular, uh-huh.
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:54.079
But I would advocate for the Frances, you know, and if not the norte.
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:58.960
Yeah, if people are in shape, yeah, you know, and you might have to take a few extra.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:00.559
I don't know what you'd have to pack.
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.679
Yeah, the lighter you pack, the better off you are, right?
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:07.199
Yeah, you can always dump stuff along the line.
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.800
And you can buy stuff too, right?
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:10.559
I dump a lot of stuff, yeah.
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:17.360
I have bought, I think, three or four um sleeping bags and have they have never come back with me.
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:19.280
So I'm like, I give them away.
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:20.239
Hey, you want to sleep bag?
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.039
So you have to bring your sleeping bag into the albergue?
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:32.239
Only like one albergue said you have to use a sleeping bag or at least um, you know, the um the liners, yeah.
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:34.239
Um, those are kind of recommended too.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:35.440
So the liner is tiny.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:36.239
I have one of those.
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:36.960
Okay, great.
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:37.360
Right.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.840
So that's what I if you go in the summer, that's what I recommend.
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:40.400
Yeah.
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:43.119
I think only once they told me I had a I had it.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:45.280
So I had to actually buy something.
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:45.679
Yeah.
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:46.880
And they had them.
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:48.239
And then I got rid of it.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:48.719
Yeah.
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:54.639
So for the most part, I would just go to well, I can remember one night we were in uh I forget what town it was.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:56.079
It was before Burgos.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:08.800
And there's uh, I don't know if it's a town, it was just there's this um church, and then there's uh an albergue, and uh and so um I was just sleeping in my t-shirt and my shorts.
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:18.159
Yeah, and I woke up at like two in the morning, kind of cold, like not freezing, but and so this massive pile of blankets, uh which is like the you know, not something you'd probably use.
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:19.920
I just went over and I said, I don't care, whatever.
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.239
And I just so whatever.
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.079
Yeah, I didn't get any bed bugs.
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.519
Although it was kind of a it wasn't the cleanest place in the world.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.119
Yeah, you never know.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:29.679
Yeah.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.960
Karen's been bitten three times by the bed bugs, yeah, yeah.
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:36.400
And she has allergy, uh, she's allergic to them, so she blisters.
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:37.760
Yeah, it's cool, it's not clean.
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:39.840
I've never had it, but Mary has.
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:40.800
She has, yeah.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:46.639
When we were in Hawaii, uh there was we were at a hotel and there was but they didn't get me, we were in the same bed.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:53.519
So yeah, no, I I I got bitten, but I I wasn't, you know, uh allergic to the bite.
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:56.239
So yeah, it's not good, but what are you gonna do?
00:55:56.239 --> 00:55:58.559
Yeah, it's the life of a life of a pilgrim.
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:01.199
And that's the thing.
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:07.599
I do love the the the um the pilgrimage for me definitely concretizes the fact that I'm a pilgrim here.
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:08.079
Yeah.
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:12.800
And the thing is, like I need to be reminded of that, I guess, every year.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:13.519
Yeah.
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:16.880
Because it's something that dissipates when you get back.
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:22.559
Yeah, you know, you you you hoard things and you buy things, but on the road, you're like, do I want to carry that?
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:23.119
Right.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:28.880
And that's where the attitude we should this is my this is my takeaway, is the attitude we should have as Christians.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:38.079
Like, do I really want to um do I want the world, you know, with all of its glit, yeah, glitz and glamour, or do I want Christ?
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:43.599
Yeah, and and the simplicity of of uh being a a Christian, right?
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.920
And so I think that you they're wedded.
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:50.880
I don't think you can really um divest yourself uh from that yeah that mindset.
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:51.840
That's my perspective.
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.480
I think that's the gift I've been given from the Camino.
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:58.480
Yeah, you know, like because I I always overpack every year.
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:00.320
Karen's like, you you do this every year.
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:00.880
What's your problem?
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:01.840
I've I don't know.
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:06.320
Yeah, and then I'm like, like even this equipment, do I really want to bring it?
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:06.800
Right.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:11.519
But I I do I mean you're that's part of your your your thing.
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.480
You're doing a podcast, you need you need that, right?
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.960
So that's cool.
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:18.639
And you bring all these microphones and everything?
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:20.079
I bring one mic.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.119
No, actually, I bring both mics, I don't bring the stands.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:23.599
Uh-huh.
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.639
And so I bring these cords, I bring both mics, and I bring this.
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.400
People just hold the hold the microphone.
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:28.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:37.840
Which is not the best though, because a lot of times it they fade, and then like I had a couple of uh podcasts that I can't use because like the sound was off.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:38.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:39.920
So this is ideal.
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:41.440
Yeah, but I'm not carrying this.
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:41.920
Yeah.
00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:43.280
Because it does add up.
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:44.239
Oh, yeah.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:45.519
On the body, too.
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:49.760
Like, I told you, I think in 2024, I had a lot of stuff.
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:53.039
I had all of this, I had my computer.
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.599
I probably had 20 more than 20 pounds.
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:59.360
They they say they recommend you should carry 10% of your weight.
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:00.719
Yeah.
00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:03.519
So that's it, that's a good thing to live by.
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:07.119
And so I started, I was fine, you know.
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.679
But instead of getting stronger, I got weaker.
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:10.079
Yeah.
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.239
So by the end, I was a mess.
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:12.719
Right.
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:15.679
I had done 400 miles and I was like, I can't, I'm done.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:16.880
Yeah, I was just done.
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:17.199
Yeah.
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:19.599
You know, I had blisters, I was just old.
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:20.239
Yeah.
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:21.199
I felt it.
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:31.360
I can remember getting to this one stage, and we had you have to climb this um rocky mountain um up toward O Sabrero, a town that I I really love.
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:35.760
And I was with this kid from Minnesota, not a kid, he was in his 40s.
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.360
I go, Eric, just go.
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:38.159
He goes, What?
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:39.840
I go, just leave me.
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:42.079
I said, I am not doing well.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:42.719
He goes, really?
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:43.920
I said, no, just leave.
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:48.480
And so he just he left, and uh, which was to his benefit.
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:50.880
And I crawled up that mountain, right?
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.880
And then it started pouring, dude.
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:57.519
But it uh the it was covered by foliage, so you know, so the the path was kind of covered.
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:10.400
So I get up to this uh La Faba or something, this small town uh before O Sobrero, and I stopped there for the night, and he's texting me, Oh, what what um don't you have a room in O Sobrero?
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:13.360
I said, I do, but yeah, I'm not gonna make it.
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:14.639
You can have it.
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:16.960
So I stayed there that night.
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.800
Yeah, I was I really struggled.
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:19.119
Yeah.
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:23.360
And then I only went for another day or two before I just gave in.
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:23.760
Yeah.
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:24.159
Yeah.
00:59:24.159 --> 00:59:25.119
So you never know.
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:25.679
Yeah.
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:27.119
But the lighter the better.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:27.920
Yeah.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:29.199
That's it.
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:29.920
Yep.
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.599
Anything else?
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:33.280
I don't think so.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:35.280
Um I'm I'm looking forward to it.
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:35.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:38.960
So uh what route would you um tend toward?
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:46.480
Well, I'm an ocean guy, so I might like Karen's uh the Portuguese.
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:47.840
Oh, or the norte.
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:49.599
Or or because it's up in the mountain.
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:51.199
This is up in the mountains down to the shore.
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:52.480
And I do like the mountains too.
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:53.440
So that's depends.
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.000
I don't know.
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:54.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:55.360
Yeah.
00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:01.440
But you're gonna have it's gonna be a different experience because there's gonna be less pilgrims, they're gonna be usually more fit.
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:02.159
Right.
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.800
It it's the it's the athlete's pilgrimage.
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:06.320
It's the most difficult.
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:07.760
Yeah, yeah, I would say that.
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:09.360
But um, yeah, I don't know.
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:10.960
I'll have to Portuguese is cool.
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.800
You should watch the movie.
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:15.519
Supposedly there's a sequel.
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:16.559
Oh, is there?
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:23.199
That was the uh that was the word on the last Camino they were saying that was uh they were gonna walk the Portuguese, huh?
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:24.400
So I hope so.
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:28.719
And then you've probably told me this before, but how did Martin Sheen get involved?
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:29.760
Did he do it?
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.000
No, this well, this is really crazy.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:36.559
So Martin Sheen's father is from Galicia, that's what Santi, that's where the uh cathedral is.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:42.800
So he always kind of wanted to do it, and so uh I think uh he was doing the West Wing.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:43.440
Oh, okay.
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:51.039
He didn't have time to do it, so he took a tour of the Camino with a friend and his and Emilio's son.
01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:56.719
So Emilio's son, his name is either Taylor or uh I don't I don't know what his name I think it's Taylor.
01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:58.719
So the three of them were driving it.
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:01.199
Like any good American, I drove the Camino.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:01.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.920
And uh In an El Camino.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:20.800
So they said he um tells a story where um they stop at this Albergue and his grandson, um, so they stay at this albergue.
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:25.920
So he the grandson meets this girl and falls in love, right?
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.960
And he says to Martin Sheen, Papa, I'm staying here.
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:30.880
You're not staying here.
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:31.760
Yeah, yes, I am.
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:32.559
Because no.
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:35.280
Anyway, they eventually, like five years later, got married.
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.159
Oh wow, right.
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:41.519
So he does fall in love, and uh, the wedding is at this house that they're thinking you went there, right?
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.440
Yeah, we ended up there, which is off the camino.
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:44.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:53.840
And we ended up uh the uh this woman's brother, we meet him, he takes us to that house and we stay there and we meet his parents and they're in the movie.
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:54.159
Uh-huh.
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.960
I'm like, there's no way you can end up there, it's just impossible.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:57.280
Right.
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:58.480
Because it's off the camino.
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:58.960
Yeah.
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:04.719
But um, so then Emilio wrote the movie for his father.
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:05.280
Uh-huh.
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.880
And uh when he showed them uh the script to his father, he goes, Yeah, you know what?
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:11.280
This is I'm I'm no longer an A actor, right?
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:12.320
I'm on the decline.
01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:13.840
He goes, No, Dad, I wrote this for you.
01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:16.559
Yeah, and so that's how uh that came about.
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:17.199
Yeah.
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:18.079
Wow.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:19.519
Very interesting.
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:20.000
Yeah.
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:21.519
So I hope they do a sequel.
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:21.920
Yeah.
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.800
It's like Mel Gibson's doing uh the resurrection, right?
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:27.440
He is, yeah, it's gonna come out in two parts next year.
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.840
It's gonna come out like months uh apart.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:33.199
It's interesting.
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:35.519
Yeah, he's a character, yeah.
01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:37.280
That he is, yeah, yeah.
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:39.039
So that's awesome.
01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.320
I'm glad you're you're into it.
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:41.039
Yeah.
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:47.280
And uh the the the um the uh saying on the road is buen camino.
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:47.920
You say that to everyone.
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:48.159
Yeah.
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:51.440
Buen camino, which means good journey, a good road, and stuff like that.
01:02:51.440 --> 01:03:01.119
And uh it's interesting because um sometimes you see someone, you say that to them, and then like days later you end up in a conversation with them, you know, oh I saw you two towns ago.
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:06.960
Yeah, but that's the the you know, the the commonality is you're all on pilgrimage, which is true for us uh in life.
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.199
Right, yeah, but we don't recognize that.
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:09.679
Right.
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:12.000
And uh like we're in competition with each other.
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.199
We're on the Camino, you realize, well, what competition?
01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:15.760
Right.
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.320
Like, you know, this is good for you, it's good for me.
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:20.400
Like there's no yeah, you know, yeah.
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:27.199
And so that's uh that's another concept that uh I think since I've started the Camino, I've grappled with like competition.
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:28.159
Is it really healthy?
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:30.480
I mean, as Americans, we're like, oh, it's definitely healthy.
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:32.239
You want to compete to be your best.
01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:36.239
Is it really it shouldn't we cooperate so that people can get there together?
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:37.360
Sure, yeah.
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:38.239
I don't know.
01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:39.840
Yeah, what do I know?
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:43.519
Yeah, one thing about the Camino is a lot of time to think, dude.
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:44.719
Yeah.
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:49.679
You walk and when you walk, I was just reading Walking by Thoreau last night.
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:50.159
Uh-huh.
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:50.960
That's a good piece.
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:51.440
Yeah.
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:53.119
I don't think I've ever read it.
01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:59.519
Um, is it a com is it a standalone piece by Thoreau?
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:00.159
I've definitely read it.
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:03.360
It's an essay that I think he maybe maybe it was a lecture.
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:03.760
Okay.
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:05.280
It sounds like a lecture, yeah.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.880
But it does stand alone in some volumes, and then it comes with other stuff too.
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:09.599
Yeah.
01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:10.559
It's really good.
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:11.760
It's very biblical.
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:12.639
Uh-huh.
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:13.519
I'm sorry.
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:20.559
I read a book once, um, I think it was called Peregrination or something like that, and it talked a lot about that.
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:21.119
Really?
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:21.519
Yeah.
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.280
And it was all about walking.
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:32.639
The whole book was like, I don't know if it was all focused on uh pilgrimages, but it was like the benefits of of long distance walking.
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:33.360
Right, right.
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:37.599
But I think a lot of you know, obviously Thoreau did supposedly Beethoven.
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:40.320
That's where he did a lot of his composition.
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.639
He would walk every day through the through the woods.
01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:43.119
Really?
01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:43.360
Yeah.
01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:44.159
A lot of philosophers.
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.639
And he could write, you know, he could write it in his mind.
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:48.960
He didn't need to like put it on paper.
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:49.360
Really?
01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:51.519
But he did it, like his ideas came.
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:57.599
I find like I do that too if I'm because I try to walk like you know, a few times a week, like at least an hour.
01:04:57.599 --> 01:05:08.719
And it's you know, it is a time where you can just um it's it's a thinking time, you know, because you're just alone by yourself and you're not distracted or so.
01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:09.199
Yeah.
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:12.159
Well, that's another actually uh a recommendation.
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:14.239
Like so Karen would listen to music.
01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:15.599
I tend not to.
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:20.400
Yeah, sometimes I'll play music out loud if I'm with like to kind of just share it with someone, you know.
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:24.719
But I think uh I would recommend that you just try to embrace the experience.
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:32.960
Yeah, I think I don't think I would listen to music while I was I I've I've never I know people who like a lot and they'll listen to music the whole time.
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:33.360
Yeah.
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:36.480
And I I I've never done that really.
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:36.880
Right.
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:37.840
So I don't usually do that.
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:38.320
Yeah.
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:43.519
But I will play some songs like just to like uh whatever, bring someone into my world.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:43.920
Yeah.
01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:45.360
You know, some punk rock or something.
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:45.840
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:47.679
Usually usually the clash.
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:48.079
Yeah.
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:52.159
Yeah, no, I'm so happy that you're uh Yeah.
01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:52.639
Yeah.
01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:55.119
I it won't be this summer, but maybe next summer.
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:55.679
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:55.840
Yeah.
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:58.079
I think you guys will like you love it.
01:05:58.079 --> 01:05:58.400
Yeah.
01:05:58.400 --> 01:05:59.599
You know, I don't want to impose that on you.
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:01.039
Because you might hate it.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:01.280
Right.
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:02.159
But I don't think so.
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:03.199
No, I doubt it.
01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:05.920
You know, I did meet a guy from Seville, maybe.
01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:07.039
I don't know if I told you the story.
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:08.079
Is he a barber?
01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:11.199
I don't know.
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.559
But uh he was a phys ed teacher in Spain.
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:15.599
He said, every summer.
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.000
I he was sitting on a bench, so I just sat next to him, right?
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:18.719
I was lonely.
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:18.880
Yeah.
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:20.400
It was probably 2016.
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:25.039
And uh and so he tells me, you know, he's a phys ed teacher, blah, blah, blah.
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:27.679
Every summer usually goes to a beach or something, you know what I mean?
01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:31.519
And he said, So we'll I so he started he got off and I said, Do you mind if I walk with you?
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:32.559
So we're walking a little bit.
01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.119
And he and he said, I'm having a horrible time.
01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:35.840
I hate this.
01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:36.480
I'm like, really?
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:37.440
You hate this?
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.800
And he goes, Well, do you like to travel to me?
01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:42.480
And I said, No, I don't like to travel at all.
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:43.840
He goes, Do you like to walk?
01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:45.280
I said, I'm not really a walker.
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:46.400
He goes, Why are you here?
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:47.119
I said, I'm praying.
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:47.840
It's a pilgrimage.
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:49.119
I'm here to pray, you know.
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:50.400
And he started laughing.
01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:53.280
But uh, yeah, he said he he hated it, which is unusual.
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:54.800
I that's that's unusual.
01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:55.360
Yeah.
01:06:55.360 --> 01:07:09.199
But sometimes you meet someone like I know remember in 2015, Karen and I met this young woman from the States, and she was she said, you know what, if I don't find some companionship soon, I'm going home.
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:09.679
Yeah.
01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:16.079
So she was looking for someone to walk with, which is huh, you know, and we weren't the the couple that she wanted to walk with.
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:17.280
Not you guys.
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:24.000
So that's once in a while, but for the most part, people are um are happy to be there.
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:24.719
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:25.199
Yeah.
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:28.400
And it's so countercultural.
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:29.199
Yeah.
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:29.679
Yeah.
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:30.559
You're walking.
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:30.880
Right.
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:31.840
That's all you're doing.
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:32.320
Yeah.
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:34.239
And you don't have to prove anything to anyone.
01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:34.639
Right.
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:39.039
So I it's a it's really uh no, I see you guys as like you'll love it.
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:39.519
Yeah.
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:40.320
Yeah.
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:42.719
Start getting their plans together.
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:44.480
All right.
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:45.679
Well, thank you very much.
01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:48.239
Hey, thanks for thanks for having me in the conversation.
