Episode 9 - "Lensing" Ft. Birgit "Bebe" Dierken BSC

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Welcome back to another episode of the Cinematographer 101 podcast.
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Today we are joined by a very exciting guest, Pirgit Dierkin, BSC.
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She started her career in uh 1991 uh starting as a clapper loader and then a focus puller and quickly moving up the ranks into cinematography.
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Uh she obviously uh worked as a DOP on the Midas Man and Dr.
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Jekyll, but also was additional photography on projects like Bridgerton and the Bodyguard.
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Um she and I uh have known each other for for a while, but uh we are here today to discuss lensing.
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So welcome to the podcast.
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Hello.
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Uh I think the best way uh as we always start is um tell us a little bit about yourself.
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Um so hi, I'm BB.
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You know, everybody calls me really BB because Birgit is just such a difficult name here in the UK.
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Yeah, they make a lot of variations of it.
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I spare you telling you all the variations.
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Um I wouldn't say I moved fast into uh cinema uh becoming a DP.
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It took me quite a while.
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Um I started in Germany as a klepperloder, and uh then I've been, I think, 18 or 19 years a focus polar.
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And focus polling actually brought me then over to the UK.
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Right.
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And that then brought me to Berlin for uh some projects there and now um DPing for 10 or 11 years, and I'm back in the UK.
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So I've done nothing else my whole life than camera.
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That's all I've done.
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So you uh as you mentioned, you you started as a clapper loader and became you sort of went up the ladder, became a focus puller, and uh so how was that transition into cinematography for you?
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That was actually difficult.
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It wasn't that easy.
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I actually thought um uh it would have been much easier.
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Uh I started first operating, so from focus pulling, I thought, yeah, it's a natural progression.
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I start operating.
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But because I've been a focus puller for so long, um it and I've moved up in focus pulling quite successfully, it was very, very difficult to get my first proper gig as an operator.
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So I think I waited a bit over a year to get a proper job.
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Wow.
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Yeah, it took me quite uh some time because everybody knew me with uh focus pulling.
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So you have to really reinvent yourself again, it's a total different um bio.
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And obviously, you you do a lot of additional photography.
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Did did you start through additional photography and then move into uh DPing A unit, or was it the other way around?
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Because obviously um the progression might have been as well from an operator to go into being handed a second unit and then move get the opportunity to a unit.
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So yeah.
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Um I don't really know.
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I mean, first of all, I do quite a lot.
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I'm not only doing additional uh uh photography, I've I I still do that sometimes because I think it's exciting to work with other DPs, but there it's very selected, the ones where I'm doing that.
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Um because I feel sometimes it's just nice to see what the others do, and also uh I think our job became or is so overwhelming on these big productions that it's nice if you have a like a second DP.
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Sometimes you have two directors, sometimes you have you know you have more geffers on set.
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And uh I like to collaborate, so I think it's a nice thing to do.
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But that was not really the question, was it?
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Well, it would no, it was mostly how you got to AUnit.
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Was it did you directly go from Cam op to A unit, or did you have to go through additional photography before you got to AUnit?
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No, no, I think I went then I I didn't do operating for very long.
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Um, I think only for two years or something, only operating, and then you know how it is, you start doing your own stuff, it kind of becomes organic the next step.
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Yeah, so that transition was much easier.
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But they went from focus pulling to operating, that was a big step.
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Right.
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And how did you build your your style or visual taste over the years?
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Like, was there did you have a direction that you you knew you wanted to go into, or you kind of let that the work guide you?
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I actually trying not to have a style.
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Fair.
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I'm actually trying so hard not to have one, and of course you fail because under time pressure you sometimes are on set and you just go back to what you know.
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So, because you know that works, so you quickly do that again.
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Uh but I'm really, really, really trying not uh to have a style.
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I would like to be able to do everything.
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It's always been my aim, also as a focus puller or as an operator.
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I want to do um a feature, music clip, uh documentary, uh, you know, everything.
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Sci-fi, uh period, of course, contemporary.
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I don't want to be labeled to just one thing.
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You know, you want to flex your muscles with different topics.
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I do.
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But like you said, I feel like styles don't necessarily get picked.
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It kind of comes to you, you just kind of see it recur in your work and you go, Oh my god, this is this is what I shoot, this is how I shoot.
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Um it was was there like I think another question is also what drew you to cinematography?
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What was it that you that made you go, that's that's what I want to do, you know?
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Uh I actually started, I I'm not one of them that dreamt of it when I was four or five, you know, and I didn't have a dad.
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Um, well, my dad actually took pictures, which I think are hilarious.
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I mean, he did, he's not with us anymore, but in all the uh photo books we have, I don't have a head.
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My head is chopped off because he had one of these old other that not exist anymore, these rich rach, you know, these old pocket cameras.
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Oh, yeah.
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And he always pressed them so so strongly that on all the pictures my head is off.
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I think I have two pictures with my head on.
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And I think it's like the like the young Jürgen Teller.
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Yeah, you know, I think it was uh so I think I have my talent from him, bad framing.
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But um I started um studying uh becoming a painter, and I realized I'm just not good enough.
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I will never I never I will never be good enough.
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And they also had a photo lab.
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They had a lab, and uh that I read so I started doing that, and I realized, oh, I can do pictures like that as well.
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So this that was my entry to photography.
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Then I studied photography properly and became a photo assistant to a very lovely photographer in Hamburg.
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He did fashion and people, and from there somebody saw me and said, Oh, you're not interested in film.
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Then I saw a BL4 and that was it.
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God, that yeah, I I feel I can relate to that because I I had another episode with a production designer and he started in architecture, and that was me as well.
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I think we all started somewhere and then ended up in film.
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Uh, and like you, I I tried study uh, you know, going in the direction of being an architect and realized I was terrible at it.
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And um someone had said to me, like, oh, you know, your your little travel videos are really good.
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Have you ever thought of film?
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And that's when I went, Oh no, I film that's a job.
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Exactly.
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And um, and then that's what sort of led me down the curious path of film.
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And then the moment I I was handed a camera, I think that's when I went, okay, this is yeah, this is cool.
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Um and uh obviously you've now worked on various projects.
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Um is there uh tools are obviously uh one of the hardest things to pick, but do you kind of have a a set of cameras or lenses that you always turn to?
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I mean, is or do you vary as much as possible?
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Yeah, I think I um I'm trying again, I'm trying not to get too fixated on on something you feel comfortable with.
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Uh but of course they are cameras you kind of turn to because you know they have a certain flexibility I might I might like, the way you can move it or the size of it, or the skin tones.
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I like the sensor especially.
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Yeah, of course, they are yeah, because I feel like that's that's always the thing.
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People always go, oh well, this is the one camera I'm gonna use.
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This DP just shoots on Ari or this, you know.
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But um it it's so weird because they you keep being taught, especially at film school, whatever, don't worry about the camera, but you know, pick the camera and lenses based on the project.
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But then I feel like DPs do fall back into comfort a lot of times.
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Um I say obviously when you work as an AUnit DP, you get to pick your kit.
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How does that work with additional photography?
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Do you do you have that discussion or are you sort of handed what you have to work with?
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No, then they they just hand it over, and I like that as well.
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You know, even sometimes if they are lenses I might not like, for example, uh I want to make them my friends.
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I will try to you know to do whatever I can to like them.
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Yeah.
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And trying to make the best out of it.
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But I have been, I think my my whole time as a focus polar, which is a long time, I've um excessively spent time with lenses.
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I was gonna say so many different ones and so many different rental houses, countries, the way people deal with it.
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And that's a very, you know, I started really liking them.
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They're personal to me, they have a personality.
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Yeah.
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And uh especially some of them sometimes when you just couldn't make them, you just couldn't make them work, or the the uh the DP would pick one, you know, that which at that time who would think, oh wonderful lens, you know, and you die focus pulling it because it's just such a pain.
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Of course, your perspective changes, and you see why they loved it so much, even though I was uh upset at the time when I've been a focus puller.
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So I've there's uh lenses is something, even the ones I've hated, I tried to make my friend.
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Well, what have you thought of the the development of lenses over the years?
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Because obviously we keep pushing for cleaner and cleaner lenses, and yet DPs keep tracking back to less sharp lenses, more imperfect lenses.
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So it feels like the demand and the development are going in such different directions.
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Yes.
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Um what's what's your take on all of that?
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Yeah, I'm also I'm uh like most of the DPs guilty of gravitating to older glass or glass with, as we say, character, more character.
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They all have character, just different ones.
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But um because the sensor obviously is so high resolution now and it's so sharp, and sometimes even have artifacts if you go to smaller ones, you know, they have more digital noise.
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But you you want to break this and kind of bring it back to what you think looks good, and these are all the old movies we've been uh uh growing up with.
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So I always try to bring everything back to cinema, yeah to old cinema, because I come from cinema.
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And I think uh that's uh where my anecdote comes in.
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So we we actually met at TLS uh during their open house, and uh we kind of connected over the love of lenses.
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But I think that's one thing I appreciate about TLS, and you see more and more brands, you know, Iron Glass are come doing the same, but I think what I appreciate about TLS is they do take all these uh you know abandoned lenses as I'd call them, because you wouldn't be using Olympus and Minolta's uh today unless they were properly rehoused and there was an interest for them.
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Uh, but there is just such an amazing arsenal at TLS of such a variety of looks, and uh you know, they're and they keep throwing out new lenses.
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I mean, recently they had the uh Prometheus, uh they released a new one as well recently.
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Um 65?
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Yeah.
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The Vega or whatever?
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Well, they had the Vega uh the original and then they they created 65, but there was another one they also released.
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I know there I heard they might be working on a Takumar, uh but I can't remember.
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Um but yeah, this is uh this is something I think we both really appreciate about that.
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And I you know I did a lens test for a project recently, and it's just so fun because you just throw a different lens on and it's just a whole different uh visual look.
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Um and when it comes to to lens testing, actually, do you what's your sort of process testing lenses, finding the right lens for a project?
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Well, it very often with a script I start, I don't know why, but I kind of start with is this a is this an American, is this an English?
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Is this a French story?
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And then I would think, oh maybe it's Italian, oh maybe technology, oh no, maybe.
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So I would start going with sometimes I start just with a nationality.
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Interesting.
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And uh so you could even have uh harsh German glass for the Nazis, yeah, for example, and maybe more gloomy glass for I mean, it's sh whatever.
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But I would for me it's very personal, it has character.
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So um, and also the people who made it.
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So normally I start there very often, and then um, or I go exactly the opposite direction.
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I don't know, there's no rule to it.
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But when I test, I pick a few lenses, and then I don't want to know what I'm looking at.
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So only the focus puller knows.
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I don't want a name on the clapper board, I just want serial numbers on it, like the last three.
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So when we then do the test and I see the test, I want everything to be mixed up.
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I don't want because I will remember otherwise the order.
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So if I then see it, I want to make more um a decision about what I really like and not about a name, a brand.
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Uh you know, because you get you your your your your brain just gravitates to that, it just does that to you.
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And I did this as a focus pull as well with quite a lot of DPs, and I kept doing this for myself.
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And I think this this is one thing that can get very tricky when you when you start playing with lenses, is obviously like you said, we we pick lenses based on story, but then I think there's always a part of us that wants to push a certain look, that wants to so how does how how do you strike that balance of like wanting to you know explore a whole new look, but you know, you have to serve the story.
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It's sort of that dichotomy sometimes.
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I don't really know.
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I think it's a gut feeling you go with, yeah, and of course, then you talk to uh the director or to um the set designer, um, they are all involved in the look as well.
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It's you know, massively actually, especially um set design.
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Very often we get a good credit for their wonderful work, so yeah, uh I think it's very important to us.
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So I think it's a gut feeling.
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It's a gut feeling, and then what I think um feels right.
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How uh and actually when say for example, you you have a project and you really believe like this project should be anamorphic.
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Like I I've I I can see it, I I'm you know, I break broke it down and I I can only see it as an anamorphic project, but the director doesn't see it.
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What when you get to that sort of crossroad where the director and you aren't seeing the same vision for the lens, what it how do you approach that?
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I just make the spherical one look really horrible and the anamorphic one really nice.
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Fair enough.
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That's one way of doing it.
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Um no, I mean it's sometimes you have to give in, it's just uh it's just what it is.
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And as I said before, I would then make trying to make that work.
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But um probably would maybe slightly push my, you know, what I favor and make this look more pleasing.
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Yeah, just sort of feed the director some references, and at like one o'clock in the morning, like, oh my god, look at this shot that was shot on this Viltrox.
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You know, it's really nice, you know.
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Uh, because I I'm I'm going through that right now.
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I've got a shoot next week, and we're still sort of debating whether to go vintage glass, anamorphic, or spherical.
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And I I mean, I really think for that sort of commercial, the anamorphic would work.
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Um, and he's he's still not sure, so I'm having to like throw in a reference every other day, just be like, oh wait, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, and then I think I'm slowly swaying him towards the anamorphic, but it it feels like a very long sort of feeding process.
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Yeah, and you don't have time for testing, is it?
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Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, that's always tricky then.
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Um but yeah, I I I I think also the other tricky thing, and I was thinking about this um yesterday.
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One of the things we see a lot in film, which tends to be really hard to do, is lens pairings.
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So I think we were so conditioned to we pick one lens and we shoot everything on that one lens, and I think it takes time to understand that you can pair lenses.
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And I only did this for the first time recently, um, and it felt so refreshing.
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I did a short film where we paired, it was all TLS, but we had Sumi Lux, uh Petsvals, and I threw in a lens baby, and therefore one shot.
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And they're very different, but they worked for different scenes for different purposes.
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Um, what is the process of pairing lenses?
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How how do you make that work?
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Well, I think I see absolutely no problem in doing that.
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I mean, a lot of big DPs do it.
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Yeah, a lot of very, very I mean, some of the really top DPs do it.
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And um uh even in you know, Anthony Dot Mental, Robbie Ryan, um uh not not Vilmos Wilmos uh I can't say the name properly.
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Wilmos is it V Vilos, Wilmos Zygmunt?
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How do you say that?
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Yes, you know, it's one of the big ones.
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No, I know but anyhow, but they all do it.
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Yes.
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So they all do it, you know, and they are uh I think there's a certain rock and roll uh attitude about it.
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So I don't fear that at all.
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I just throw it together.
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If it doesn't work, you will see it immediately.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.119
Your eye is trained and you're like uh this is a bit I'm going a bit too much there.
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.039
Yeah, but in the end, um I think it's overrated.
00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:37.519
It's overrated when they say these lenses don't match in my world.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:37.920
Right.
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.880
You know, I'm absolutely open to put everything into one pot.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.000
Also, I would also use different cameras, different formats.
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:46.720
Why not?
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.759
Fair enough.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:58.079
But I I think is it uh because I think and tell me if I'm wrong, would the mistake be instead of lensing for a story, do you lens for a scene?
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.240
Or because you see what I mean?
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.000
I think when you do start pairing lenses, you're yeah, you're lensing for scenes, right?
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:04.960
Yeah, probably.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.079
So um is is that also your process?
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:15.759
Do you do you sort of break it down by scene, or do you just go, well, no, this this is the story, so I want to stick to this look, you know?
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:27.359
Yeah, I mean, um normally I would probably stick to a scene or to a time period or a flashback or whatever it is, you know, and and and do that definitely.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:30.000
Yeah, I think most of the time I'm just thinking about yeah.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:50.079
I mean, I've done some stuff with um dig where you have digital 35mm and digital 16 mil, and uh I used anamorphic uh lenses also for uh 16 millimeter anamorphic lenses for the digital 16mm, but then I threw a lot of spherical 16mm lenses in as well because I love the old zooms.
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.200
Um looked fab.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:54.559
I think you looked fab.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.319
But is there not different brands?
00:20:58.480 --> 00:20:58.720
Yeah.
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:00.160
Only you again.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:02.240
Doesn't matter, bring it on.
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:12.400
Is there not a threshold though where you you can have fun with all these lens pairings, but then you can make this mistake of them being way too different?
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.799
Like where what mistakes can you come across doing that?
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:17.759
I don't know.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.440
I don't think there are any mistakes.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:28.160
I like just being um I don't want to follow all the uh all the rules that have been laid out by whom.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:37.759
You know, if you think it looks good and it works for the story mainly, and the director's happy, I don't care, I put it all in.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:51.279
Yeah, um I'm as I said, I'm not one of uh I don't know, I'm uh I'm I'm not the one that takes just one set of glass and then take it on every um on on every job.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.880
There is no right and wrong.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:59.200
I think I have to be I always tried not to become technically arrogant, you know why.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:06.799
Know or even also with lights or with um yeah any kind of gear you're using.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.200
All of that gear is valuable.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.240
And before we even started, we had a little talk about that.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:43.119
I'm always uh looking a lot in um uh lot of things on YouTube up um wherever I can find new technical equipment, maybe new glass, also out of the uh is this uh out of the uh world of uh semi-photography, out of you know, it's not high professional, but there's so many brilliant ideas people come up with, and I love implementing them into my work.
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.279
So I don't want to be I don't want to become technically arrogant.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:54.720
Yeah, so and that is the gear, this is on set, this is with people, this is with experience, all of that.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:03.759
I think it's that's the thing, is obviously there's there you can have so much fun, and there is amazing tools out there.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:09.359
I mean, we were talking about it on another episode, um, you know, as we said, and we even talked about it earlier.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:39.839
Um, Greg Frasier tends to do that a lot where he'll pair these really expensive, very intricate lenses with you know, really cheap sort of helios, very imperfect, like super soft with a really warm tint across the uh coating wise, and uh and and these really crazy flares, so it like completely night and day, but he makes it look really seamless that because it emotionally fits in, yeah.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:41.680
So actually, that's a good point.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.480
So it's emotionally driven, then yeah, right.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.200
I think, and he's just having fun, yeah, and it looks beautiful.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:54.960
Do you do you tend to test with like these really sort of accessible cheap lenses?
00:23:55.039 --> 00:24:00.559
Do you do you kind of play with that a lot on projects or yeah, yeah, I do, absolutely.
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:11.440
Also with um, you know, small gimbals, uh, everything I can, you know, there's just different tools, and they can all do something absolutely fantastic.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:32.720
So uh I'm always trying to have uh a small body there as well, where you can have um I don't want to say brands here, so it's but they I always try to have uh smaller cameras there with lighter lenses, lighter anamorphics on, maybe um um something I can just it's built and I can just grab it and whiz off with it.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:33.279
Right.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:34.960
That's what I enjoy.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:46.960
If I can uh I normally like to operate the B camera, not the A camera, because I like to think about have more time with the director and also um look after the lighting.
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:56.160
And if you are, I think, on the A camera, it can get very, very intense with um with the time you have on on hand.
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:58.559
So I like to just jump in on the B camera.
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:14.559
So A camera sets up, we obviously talk about it, then they set up and they deal with all the other stuff, you know, the tracks, the crane, whatever that is, and uh I can talk to the Geffer and get the lighting right, and then within like last minute B camera tends to be a bit more intimate as well, isn't it?
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:23.440
Because A camera is sort of your coverage camera because it'll start on your wide or your your two shot, whilst you can kind of push it onto close-ups and singles.
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.000
I think it's the nicer shots on the B camera, yeah.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:26.559
Yeah.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:36.799
I I I had that experience on on my first feature working with a B camera for the first time, and uh it it it takes time to understand that communication, isn't it?
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:46.079
Because uh it it's almost like two creative brains working separately, but it's trying to keep that communication, you know.
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.559
Um framing is a hard one, isn't it?
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.200
Yeah to give let that go big time.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:54.000
Oh the headroom.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:57.119
Like, oh god, I did I know it's difficult.
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.359
And sometimes you're like, let me just like I need to jump on, just like give me, I need a reframe for you know.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.920
Um so it's it's a lot of trust.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.319
But uh any recent discoveries?
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:13.440
I mean, as you said, you you test a lot of uh you know fun new things that you find online.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:28.880
Is there any recent discoveries you found lens wise, kit-wise, that you've you've enjoyed playing with, or yeah, I might I mean we're playing with a couple of friends uh for a while with really large format cameras and the bellow and you know focusing on that one.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.519
So we've built little housings for cameras and stuff like that.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.480
So this is what I uh what I enjoyed.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:53.359
There's even now a housing you can have for um for uh like a you know, the old Polaroid rangefinder cameras, you know, you can get the adapters where you can you you can slide your iPhone in, but you're using so to say the old lens and you still follow on the bellow.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.759
Yeah, it's just little things next to yeah.
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:56.960
I always play with something.
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:58.160
There's always something I like.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:26:59.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:05.279
Uh no, my my recent one I've I've been a bit obsessed with with it.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:13.039
I recently purchased, well, recently, last early last year I purchased the 17mm Canon FD to complete my set.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:22.880
And it's just so different to the rest of the set because the the Canon FDs are I mean they're a soft lens, but uh and they're not rehoused, they're they're just cine-modded.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:35.119
Um, and I've got 24, 35, 50, 85, 100, and all those are fairly clean, fairly sharp, but the 817ml is just super soft.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:56.240
I mean, it almost has this uh foggy coating over it, but it it's it's very bloomy, but it's just so much fun because it the way it reacts to light and the sort of contrast levels and the the softness on the skins and then the wide angle, it's just it's a very stylized lens, but I love I've been a little bit obsessed on every project.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.680
I find a way of throwing sneaking it in, really, yeah.
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:04.559
Um but um but that's the fun of it.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:05.200
Exactly.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:21.680
I mean sometimes you have uh you know you have uh just white lenses you optimize for infinity just for white shots, so you have uh the biggest contrast for these white shots because it can get a bit murky if you go cinema, you know, if you open up.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.759
And sometimes you just take something that's uh soft and blurry.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.240
Exactly.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.279
With a big nose, big forehead.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:37.920
And then I think one of the biggest debates, I have this all the time with uh my colleagues, is lenses versus filters.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.440
I think I don't know what your takes are on that.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:43.759
I I'm not a big filter guy.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:29:03.920
Um, as I you know, a lot of them they put you know uh black pro mists or fog filters in front of the lens, and I'm just like go on there, there's so many lenses that have certain looks that can get you achieved that, and but they have their own character, but people tend to like put a filter, and I feel like you're doing a disservice to the lens to an extent.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:12.960
I mean, I understand there's some filters which are very specific that you can use, but what's your take about filtering with glass?
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:14.559
I like filtering.
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:16.319
I do like it.
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:28.960
Um probably I was just thinking while you while you're saying it, if I'm if this is because I'm so used to it, because this is how I grew up, or if this really is because I like it, I don't even know.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.200
But I do filter a lot and I like filters.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:36.480
I like everything I can do before the grade, I like to do.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.359
I also did um so I use filters, also colour filters.
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.599
Sometimes I use filters as you would use them when you were shooting film.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:57.279
So you take an 85 or an 81 uh uh 81EF or an 80A, and this is how you compensate your colour instead of doing this on the the Kelvin than doing this on the digital camera.
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:08.960
Yeah, or uh I would take uh definitely something to make things softer, um, and also that can go from a glimmer glass to a Mitchell A, depending.
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:22.559
Um uh and I also would do I've done quite a bit of netting as well, but at the obviously at the back of the lens, and then um you really have to rip it.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.279
You know, you can't just put the netting on, it's too dense.
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:26.720
It looks like a Hamilton 5.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.319
It looks a bit like a porn film.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:33.519
Then I know too much about it, but it gets really, really soft, you know, like the 70s, super gloomy.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:36.160
It's not uh uh I don't think is very nice.
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:37.519
So you have to rip it.
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:42.240
There's a certain way of ripping it and putting it on, and then it makes really nice plumes.
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:47.680
Yeah, and for those who don't know what netting is, what what is the process?
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:48.160
What is it?
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.079
Uh uh it's uh stockings, yeah.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:54.319
You know, it used to be uh Dion number six, but this is cost now an arm and a leg.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:57.680
I don't know, I think it's a couple of hundred or even thousands a leg.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:58.400
Yeah.
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.519
Uh so you don't have to uh buy those anymore.
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:08.079
Then it was Fogal 110, but this is also uh difficult to get now, but it's not that pricey.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.079
So you have to do a little bit of testing.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:16.640
I still have some stock at home, so this is why I'm still using Fogal 110.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:22.000
Um, and that you just uh put at the back of the lens, but you have to, as I said, you have to rip it.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.519
There's a certain way of so you get these letters because otherwise it's too too too dense.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:27.920
Right.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:31.359
But this is very nice for sometimes for period stuff.
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.759
But when you rip it, you have you just get a little plume, and that's really beautiful.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.519
You know, you don't want to over-romanticize it.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:43.440
And that's yeah.
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:45.119
So yeah.
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.119
And so I like filtration.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.079
Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.200
Front or back.
00:31:50.480 --> 00:32:00.240
Obviously, that's a sort of traditional technique, but is there anything today that would be the equivalent of of that that you you use or like that exists or not?
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.440
For netting, yeah.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:07.599
I think some people take uh uh wires like for for how do you call it for fishing?
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.039
Is it fly fishing?
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:09.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.680
I think they take sometimes they t uh put two or three at the back.
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:19.359
Um, you know, you can get on uh a lot of rings you can uh a lot of lenses you can get rings you can put at the back.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:24.960
Yeah I normally have like a full box of different kind of rear attachments.
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:40.720
And uh, you know, so you can quickly change maybe from a really ripped one to a denser one, or you take um a fishing rod, everything a little that it can I wouldn't say disturb, but break up.
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:45.359
And it looks different if you do it obviously at the back of the lens than you do it in the front.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:52.240
Um yeah, and I mean you can get filters with where they do this, where they do these streaks, yeah.
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.039
You know, of course, um it's a is a similar technique, it's just done in glass.
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:02.079
Well what would be some mistakes that you'd say you see people make with filtration though?
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.680
Because I think you can easily get uh you know uh make mistakes with those, no?
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:10.000
I don't know.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.359
Where's the mistake?
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:17.279
Well, I I just feel like uh and maybe again it's it just is my rings, yes.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:17.599
Yeah.
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:19.759
Then you have too many of them in front.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:41.839
But it's it's about I think it's understanding how how to pair filters and and lenses, because you know, uh again, if if you have a soft glass and you put even more soft, I mean you you you you can disturb the lens quite easily, you know, you can affect uh its qualities and its characteristics.
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:55.200
So I mean I mean there is sometimes you have in the um you have especially soft filters who in the uh I always call them bokies, I know they're called boka or something.
00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:01.039
I always say bokies, um uh they have, you know, that it looks like you have a shreddy filter in.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.599
You know, it looks like a shreddy like the cornflakes you eat.
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:06.880
Yeah, you know, it has these lines, so it does magnify.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:23.679
You have to be careful that you don't see this um in your um too much in your uh bokies if you if you don't like that, or if you have the flap down and it chops your bokehie and you have a flat, yeah, you know, it makes it um chops the head off.
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:30.239
But in general, again, um might not be my taste, but if they want it to be super soft, well, there you go.
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:31.039
Yeah.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:34.800
Put a Mitchell A and a super soft lens together, okay.
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.559
It's not my look, yeah.
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:44.719
But where um when you do test these lenses though, is it what what kind of things are you looking for?
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:56.400
Because I think there is so much and and I've I think it takes testing a lot of lenses before you start really seeing the fine details, the what you would call aberrations.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:07.119
But what when you obviously when you you're picking lenses for a project, um, what are you looking for specifically in the lens besides sort of the level of softness?
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.679
Is there anything specific as well?
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:24.480
I mean, of course, we always look for uh distortion, we always look for contrast, um because and it depends on is this for obviously what is the end product?
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:30.880
Is this for um is this for a phone, is this for the big screen, is this for television?
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.960
That is the is a different end product, and therefore I would look at it differently.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.000
Um but I will always look for what a lens so I look at it technically.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:47.840
First I go for the you know for the feel and I look what it you know I think oh this one, this one, and this one could be nice.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:56.480
But I also look for um um you you can put your lens onto MTF projectors, obviously.
00:35:56.559 --> 00:36:02.400
I always still like to shoot it myself, or the focus puller does it uh on MTF charts.
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:15.199
There were always ones from Century, and on the lines you could see, um, on specific lines, you can see the aberrations, um uh any kind of distortion, but also uh the contrast.
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.599
And does that lens uh perform where where where does it fall apart?
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.039
And it's probably because I'm so used to this chart.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:27.840
This is why I like to use it because I know exactly where to look for.
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.199
Yeah, so that's what I would um normally do.
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:39.119
But sometimes I want lenses that have like horrible aberrations or ghosting and all this kind of stuff can be really exciting.
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.320
I I think I'm not looking for the perfect lens.
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:43.280
Yeah, let's put it that.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:49.440
I'm not looking for perfect, perfect, yeah, because um the the sensor is already so perfect.
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:53.440
So, and then if you shoot film, that's a different kettle.
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:53.760
Yeah.
00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:55.519
Don't you say kettle or fish?
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:56.079
Fish of kettle?
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:56.559
Kettle or kettle?
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:57.440
Kettle of fish, yes.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:07.119
Yeah, so you would then put um I would use completely different glass, probably if I go onto um onto film, film stock.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.880
I I'm curious because you mentioned uh picking lenses based on where it goes.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:19.519
So what what's the difference about uh picking a lens for a phone versus for the big screen?
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:35.920
Like what how does that affect it doesn't have it doesn't need to have this massive uh resolution contrast, you know, and I think it you can be far more punchy and experimental with a with uh a lens for the phone.
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:40.800
Where if you go, I think on the big screen, um uh that's different.
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:46.800
You don't want a complete wonky head while on the phone it's more fun, yeah.
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.000
You know, I think yeah, I would I would use it differently, I would look at it differently, yeah, for sure.
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:52.559
Okay.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:38:02.639
And one I think another debate that people tend to have uh is uh going on that whole look is um shooting wide open.
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:03.119
Yeah.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:04.559
What's your take on that?
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:17.199
Because obviously some people love the wide open look, very sort of uh deep uh um it's just the easy way out, isn't it?
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:25.599
I mean if you take uh if you go open stop, it uh will immediately uh look good or pleasing, let's say, for for most people.
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:40.800
But on a higher stop, it's I think far more difficult to make this look um right word, modern is wrong, but it's uh to make this look more pleasing.
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:45.519
It's more difficult, but even though again I like that as well.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:52.480
Um if you're on the in the cinema, you know, I think the tr and also we are we are we are in the fashion industry.
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:54.719
Yeah, you know, so it keeps on changing.
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:05.119
Um uh not only our clothes and the way we look, tattoos, no tattoos, nose ring, cap, no cap, you know, it's the same with um it's the same with camera.
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:12.960
So uh open stop, and I think it's going so much more front-lit, back to frontlit, it's so much going more deep focus.
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.519
Uh and we've seen it in a couple of films.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:26.239
And also I think people, it's not all getting, you know, you had all this two-tone, a lot of very, very colourful, and I think it kind of moves away from that.
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:34.880
It's going more pastely, pastel, pastel, pastel, uh, more like the Asian market, which I absolutely adore, by the way.
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:42.079
Uh, a lot of amazing films come from Asia, and also the filmmaking is uh well done.
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:42.880
Yeah.
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.599
So definitely it's a f it's a fashion.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.360
We're in a fashion industry, let's face it.
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:49.519
That's true, it's very true.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:54.000
Um talking about fashion, I want to show my t-shirt.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:54.880
Please.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:58.159
Uh, do you do you want to uh quickly talk about it?
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.239
I think it's important that we bring it up.
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:10.880
So I just especially um put it on today because I think it's such a it's uh such a great course, and it's for um the Mark Milsom Foundation.
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:36.960
It's a foundation maybe a lot of people don't know anymore because Mark used to be um a wonderful uh camera operator, very well uh well respected, and he died on a film set, I think it's nine years ago, and uh his wife, Andra, has uh um uh has built this foundation for more safety on set, and I think it's really important.
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.079
Saying that I've been on a film set where people died.
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:46.719
I know how absolutely horrible that is, and you can't highlight that often enough.
00:40:46.800 --> 00:41:01.840
So everybody who buys this t-shirt, which you can on the Mark Milsom Foundation, um uh it is a contribution to making sets more safe because it just shouldn't it shouldn't happen.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:07.440
I'll I'll I'll be sure to to put a link in in our link.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:39.599
It is it is a great cause, and it's something we're we're definitely seeing a lot of today, which we shouldn't, you know, especially in a in a modern uh film uh context where you know we're taking all these new precautions and we are paying more attention as to uh the the way crews are are treated and the way uh you know we work, uh even in terms of hours, in terms of pay, in terms of all this, but safety tends to often be overlooked.
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:46.960
Um, and we've seen too many instances uh instances that could have been avoided over the last few years.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:49.360
It's especially on smaller productions.
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:49.679
Yeah.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:56.239
You know, it's on the on the on the bigger ones, you always have people there looking that it's very it's very regulated and that's good.
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:09.440
But also that you do these courses that you learn about, that you get your mindset the right way, that that you look out for people right and left of you, and not you I mean yourself as well, of course.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:13.840
But I think it's really important, and uh Andra does a lot for that.
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:23.840
She's very, very involved in a lot of things from screen skills to you know and this foundation, and uh she made this her life, and I think it's wonderful.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:24.639
For sure.
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:28.320
Yeah, so no please please buy a lot.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:29.840
Absolutely, please.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:46.079
Um uh and you know, I think you know, people, uh especially uh young filmmakers coming in, uh don't tend to understand this until uh until they they face something uh drastic.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:43:05.760
But a film set is all fun and games, but it is a high pressure environment and small mistakes have big consequences, whether it's a creative mistake or a production mistake, you know, the these are all things that affect uh crew in one way or another.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:12.159
And you know, I I I obviously think back to um was it was it Rust?
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.920
Um obviously we yeah, horrid.
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:30.559
But that that's a good example of one slight mistake overlooking uh and just rushing something that could have easily been avoided, uh, led to to drastic mistakes.
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:43.039
And I think I mean I haven't obviously seen it to that extent, but um I have seen small things that have been overlooked that snowballed into much bigger problems uh very quickly.
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:50.159
And so it's it's important that the moment you clock onto set that you are fully uh concentrated.
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:59.760
Yeah, I mean Sarah Jones, there's so many um uh too many people, and uh as you rightfully say, you don't see it at the beginning.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:08.480
You you can't you're just so hyped up to be there and so happy and everything is so exciting until something horrible happens.
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:16.400
And especially as you get on bigger sets, because the kit becomes bigger, the crews become bigger, you know, you have to be even more attentive.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:22.239
Um Yeah, I've been, you know, even special effects sometimes, the stuff they have to deal with.
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.719
I've been on a set where somebody's arm got blown off.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:27.679
You know, I've been on I mean, I'm in the industry for long.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.760
You see things eventually, you will.
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:30.320
Yeah.
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:45.760
You know, and it's uh you have you just you it it you know you have to say something and it and it's difficult to do because then you you you're asking somebody to look more closer to this or maybe even stop.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:45:00.960
You see people on I I've been on recis where people climb onto balconies where you're like, I mean, there's just like a little something holding the whole balcony up, and you see four people standing on there, and you're and you're like, uh guys, you should come off.
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:07.199
You know, and it's and sometimes, and it's not that there's a bad intention from production or anybody else.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:07.840
I don't think so.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:16.079
It's just because you just you have the head in the clouds, you think about the next shot, you think about God knows, but not about your safety.
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.559
And uh yeah, I don't want to preach, but I think it's um you know, you have to you have to be careful, you have to watch out.
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:23.760
No, but it's important.
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:35.599
I think as as I said, especially as young filmmakers, you you might overlook it and it can cause you know you don't realize the consequences until it's too late.
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:43.199
Um on on that, I don't mean to be a downer, but I think obviously it's important for uh to get your perspective.
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:48.880
What is a common mistake you see young cinematographers make today, for example?
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:57.519
I th I think I I don't know if they have if they do mistakes because we all do them all the time.
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:06.480
I just think um you need because I am I have been a focus pullover for very long, I'm not coming from film school.
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:13.760
Um I think the biggest mistake is that you um that you yet you come from film school.
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:31.199
It's a day you know, it's a maybe not really the answer to your question, but you come from film school after two years, maybe three, but I think normally it's two, you've done maybe four little short films, fine, I think it's amazing, but then being thrown onto a uh a bigger set is something else.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:51.440
It's it's a little bit like you you you have to learn your trade a little bit more and you need to be able to deal with people in a better way because all of them, you know, they are uh you you need to learn that um you know that they feel good as well and that they love to come to work.
00:46:51.599 --> 00:47:00.079
You need to be um also an entertainer to a certain degree, you need to be a diplomat, and you need to be artistic in what you do.
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:03.440
Um so you you you carry a lot of different hats.
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:11.519
And I think sometimes the biggest mistake is just starting straight on the you know on the biggest uh job.
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:21.199
I think you have to be careful not to fall into that temptation, that that trap of temptation that you can, oh I get this offered, I do this, yeah.
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:29.599
And um, and then uh probably leave the job totally bruised because um the industry.
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:41.119
I mean, I don't want to be negative about it, but it claims to be very uh uh inclusive and all these kind of things, and it's getting better, but are we there?
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:41.920
No.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:43.039
Of course, you know.
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:52.960
So you will be grilled, they will roast you, you know, because they see all your mistakes, they see it, they might not tell you, but they see that you're green.
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:56.639
And uh they might take this um against you.
00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:03.280
So you have to be very I think you just have to um you have to be more confident if you go to these kind of sets.
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:12.000
I think it's a mistake to believe that everybody is supporting your talent if you come to set is that's not the case.
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:22.159
You know, they they want you to be able that you've you know that you can already use your talent to for the benefit of the production and the people.
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:30.320
Do you think it's important that of I I totally agree with you and I I say this a lot to young filmmakers that that reach out to me.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:42.880
It's just you know, you you have to have set experience, you know, to to be a DP, you at least do uh you know five or so years just going on sets with trainee and trying to build your way up.
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:49.360
Is is is it important because obviously cinematography is camera and lighting.
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.599
Um obviously you came through camera, I came through camera.
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.320
Uh is it important that the to go into lighting as well?
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:06.000
Do you do you think or it's just about being on set and understanding learning from what you see?
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:25.840
I mean, as I think it is beneficial to especially the departments you work with, you know, closely work with, that you have um uh in-depth understanding of what they do and how long things also take.
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.440
That doesn't mean necessarily I need to know exactly every name of a light head.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:47.920
Yeah, you know, that probably not, but I think it's beneficial that you know um if they have to put up, um, you know, there's a we need a crane, or we have uh God knows we have to pre-rig something, or I want the 18k now here.
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:50.000
You need to know how long that takes.
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:54.320
Or the 5k, how bloody heavy these things can be, and what it means.
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:56.719
Cabling, uh, you know, all this kind of stuff.
00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:25.760
So I think as better you educate yourself, as more respect you will have on set, because people know you know, and um and and and it's and you know when you can use it and when you can't make the call, because the the day just has 10 hours, and if you then start uh fiddling with I don't know, whatever it is, you know, that takes too much time, you uh you have your back against the wall, and that's uh that's not funny.
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:26.400
Yeah.
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:33.599
And as a as a focus puller, what do you think you've you've learned as a focus puller that you were able to bring on as a cinematographer?
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:38.719
Obviously, you got to work with a variety of lenses, so that's that's definitely one thing.
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:41.119
But what what else do you did it teach you?
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:43.280
Uh what valuable lessons did it teach you?
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:47.519
It definitely did teach me um movement, timing.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.280
Timing is very important, and I think you only learn this after 10 years.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.239
It takes a long time to become a good focus polar.
00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:01.280
It's not only looking at the monitor and kind of following is the timing is um takes a long time.
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:06.079
So and also the movement of uh actors, when do they get up?
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:10.559
Do they you know you can you start reading the body, it becomes second nature.
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.559
You understand um what they do.
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.039
Um what else did I learn?
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:21.360
I learned a lot from all the different DPs I was able to work with.
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:27.199
And um some absolutely amazing ones and some not so amazing ones.
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.199
But you learned with the non-amazing ones as well.
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:31.599
True.
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:34.719
Not to work with them again and not to put up with that bullshit.
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:39.679
So you you learned a lot of um a lot of things with all these people, yeah.
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:40.400
Or the way they learned.
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.519
Do you want to shout out anyone that you really like?
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:51.920
Uh like or that you that mentored you, uh that people should look out for or look look at their work.
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:57.920
I mean, mentoring, I don't think that I don't know, I've never had a proper mentor.
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.880
I always had to kind of really work for my knowledge.
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:01.199
Yeah.
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:04.079
You know, so but and I but I love doing it.
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:08.159
So um there is uh there are a few guys.
00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:12.480
Andrew McDonnell, he's actually um uh a British guy.
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:19.599
He has been what I liked about him, he just became BSC this year, which is so bloody overdue.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:29.679
He is honestly really is um he never treated me uh in any different way than um a male focus puller.
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:45.679
And when I started, there were very, very few female focus pullers, uh, which by the way they still are if it comes to a camera, big feature films, a uh you know, a operator female on big feature films, big shows, very rare.
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:47.920
Rare, rare, rare, rare.
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:59.840
You have a lot of them now uh in the um S seconds, second, second, second, second, and as a trainee, but to move up, it's still difficult.
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:08.960
Yeah, you know, um there are more female DPs now that are coming, but there's still some of these traditional roles, it's still very uh difficult.
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:10.800
And he never treated me differently.
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:14.880
So and he never I had to do exactly everything.
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:18.159
He wouldn't just ask and take the box or stuff like that, you know.
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:19.840
And I really like that.
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:27.119
He treated me absolutely the same, and I never felt um my gender is even uh topic.
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:33.119
Bravo for that, honestly, and he's a fantastic man, fantastic DP.
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:37.039
So huge, huge respect and shout out to him.
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:44.559
Um then um I've did work quite a few times with uh Robert Richardson, which I absolutely adore.
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.360
I know he's called the White Devil, I like him.
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:57.679
Um he is always he's very loyal, very tough, and um but I liked that because it sharpens you.
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:02.480
You want to be good for him because he is uh so fantastic.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:05.360
Benoit Delhomme, I really like as well.
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:07.360
All of them are my friends now.
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:15.679
I really feel they're my friends, and if I have um uh a problem, I would I would ring them and ask them or text.
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.480
I say, Oh, blime, I have to deal with this.
00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:22.320
And this could be something technical, or oh, this is really amazing.
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:26.000
It also could be that you're in a situation you don't know how to deal with that.
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:28.079
That's actually always the biggest.
00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:31.199
The technical thing is you can learn.
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:46.400
It's not so that's I think is uh the smallest part of uh of our job, but they um sometimes you have to just deal with things, yeah, you know, which are between humans, which can be very, very difficult.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:53.760
You know, the power the the power tapestry on set can be challenging.
00:54:54.239 --> 00:55:05.360
I think it's refreshing to hear though that even as sort of established DPs, you still sometimes have that need to ask sort of advice and help from other DPs.
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:14.320
You know, we're as as young cinematographers we look as cinematographers, we look at the the established DPs as like the all-knowing, but we're always learning.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:24.719
We're we're never all knowing until I mean uh it'll take a career long to before you even think you understand all that is cinematography, you know.
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:25.440
I don't know.
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:33.039
I think they all still think all the ones I know they still think they fail, they all still think they're a failure, it's not good enough.
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:35.519
And I think it's also a very good motor.
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:39.440
I think that that connects us that we we're never fully happy.
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.719
We always think, ah, bagger, why did I do this?
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:44.079
You know, this is not good.
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.280
Next time, next time, next time, next time I do it better.
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:58.320
But it's yeah, as I said, I think it's a good motor, and I I can totally agree and see why, you know, like the people I just mentioned, they suffer from the same.
00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:13.039
Yeah, they also there's I think there was a Hollywood round table I've seen quite a while ago, where all these big wigs are sitting there, all these massive DPs, and they're talking about that they are still absolutely petrified on the first day when they go to say and they look through the viewfinder.
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.280
They're like, What the heck am I doing here?
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:16.719
Do I take a while long?
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:17.760
I don't know.
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:19.519
Yeah, I think we all have that.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:21.440
It's human, it's normal.
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:25.360
And it it takes time to accept that, I think.
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:35.840
I mean, we all obviously know about the imposter and uh imposter syndrome, uh, and we all have that, and we always will have that, but it's learning to accept that takes time.
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:40.960
So uh yeah, no, it's it's good to to know that uh we're not alone out there.
00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:43.119
Um you just get older.
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:46.000
The rest stays the same.
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:46.800
Exactly.
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:56.960
Um also on another note, is there any notable lenses that you might want to disc that you like or that you want to talk about?
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:01.360
Um yes, they are, and there's yes, they are.
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:07.519
They're actually I'm actually trying to get them on uh onto a job for for a while, I think for a year.
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:12.400
I saw them a year ago the first time, and they're from Focus Uh Cunning.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:14.719
They um are called Astro.
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:21.199
They are absolutely beautiful, I mean, very unique, beautiful.
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.639
You will love them.
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:25.840
And uh I also like this story.
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:31.599
They are um they have an in they're engraved uh with uh a name.
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:37.760
Um it's called Laura, and she has been the lens designer.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:45.599
It's they're called Astro, they're from Berlin, and uh she used to work there as a lens technician many, many years ago.
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:55.440
Um and uh she got unfortunate, she was Jewish and she got deported and unfortunately killed, I think, in Auschwitz.
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:04.639
So um I when I saw these lenses the first time and they told me about it, and I am from Berlin, or I lived in Berlin for a very long time.
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:20.639
Uh actually, when I went there um um last year, I visited their Stolperstein, their little stones, little golden plaques in front of houses where you see where people lived and um where they died.
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:25.760
So, and it's for all the for the Jewish community that got horribly.
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:29.679
I mean, I don't have to explain the German history, is absolutely horrible.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.840
And um, so I looked for Laura's Stein.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:45.199
She has a Stolper Stein as well, and I found it in Steglitz, and I went there and brought some candles and some flowers and took some pictures and I sent them back, these pictures back to Focus Cunning.
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:53.360
So um now Ben, who runs Focus Cunning, he he went to Berlin as well and uh visited Laura.
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:57.119
So these lenses are also for me emotionally.
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:01.119
Uh I can connect to them, and they're called Astro Berlin.
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:10.079
And um, I would absolutely love to um use them on the next project or one of the next ones.
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:11.039
I keep on trying.
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.039
Yeah, it's uh it's beautiful.
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:19.039
It's nice when lenses like that have a story, and I think it is it is a touching story for sure.
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:22.559
It's a personality, it really has a personality for me.
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:28.960
Also, it's yeah, it's it's German, it's Astro Berlin, it's Berlin, it's a woman designer.
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:30.159
I mean, hello.
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:41.679
I think there's only one other one at uh I mean no, there are probably a few more now, but the one I've uh heard was uh wasn't it Service Vision with um yeah, Service Vision.
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:44.880
I think they they had a female lens design as well.
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:45.920
It's not that often.
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:59.360
So that obviously for me is um caught my attention, but you know, it initially caught my attention because I saw them on the BSC show on one of these little stands on the site.
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:02.800
Yeah, absolutely adorable, beautiful glass.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:05.119
Well, well, I I'll need to check them out.
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:06.960
Now you've piqued my interest.
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:08.000
Yeah, they're beautiful.
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:17.840
And on on a closing note, what what uh can we expect of you in the future?
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:19.679
Anything exciting coming out?
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.440
Anything that we can look forward to?
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:34.079
Um I know you can't talk about uh your next project, but maybe stuff that's already been shot or yeah, there is um something coming out, but it's a European one.
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:44.800
And so um uh I don't I did uh the first episode, the pilot of it, and I really enjoyed that because that was the one with 35mm and 16 digital.
01:00:44.960 --> 01:01:00.800
Okay, and it's um it was done in Athens with um for um for the Middle East, you know, they shoot a lot of um Middle East uh in Greece because it's so dry.
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:03.360
And I think it's um that's very nice.
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:04.880
And it's called The Second Attack.
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:05.280
Okay.
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:07.760
I did the yeah, the pilot of it.
01:01:08.239 --> 01:01:09.840
So um that was really nice.
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:23.760
So this is coming out, and um otherwise I'm also trying to I start so I'm I'm thinking, I don't know if it's of any interest, but I'm starting uh a little mini podcast as well, not as professional as yours.
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:26.079
Um I'm doing a new clothing line.
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:26.880
Exciting.
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:32.639
I'm doing because uh I love everybody knows I love colour and normally have neon yellow nails.
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:38.000
It's a disappointment, but um I love neon yellow for donkey years.
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:47.760
So um there is something a little bit more colourful coming out, also with the idea of safety in mind, because that is such a safety colour as well.
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:48.559
Yeah.
01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:52.000
So um yeah, I have a couple of different projects.
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:54.239
Do you have a name for the podcast that you want to?
01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:55.840
It's called On Standby.
01:01:56.079 --> 01:01:56.800
On standby.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:05.039
Okay, and we can find that on Yeah, it's not out yet, but I will um I'm I'm doing some little interviews, but I don't do them, which I think is so nice.
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:06.400
It's in person.
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:18.480
Uh I can only do them in um over uh Zoom because there's so many people from all over the world because I'm yeah, you know, I met so many, I just can't uh possibly fly everywhere.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:22.079
So it's on it's on uh it's on Zoom.
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:27.519
And it's people which you don't necessarily see, but I think are amazing.
01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:28.320
Yeah.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:33.280
And but I'm assuming we'll be able to find it on Instagram, Spotify, YouTube.
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:34.159
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:42.000
I will put it out when it's um I think I need another three months or something to have a few more interviews and then but it's a plan, you know.
01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:43.920
Um that's what I would like to do more.
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:45.440
We'll look forward to.
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.119
Well, I'll uh I'll make sure to plug it in there for you.
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:50.400
It's not ready yet.
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:59.519
No, I know, but I think it's so important that you see also these people, you know, and from different backgrounds, from uh also different jobs.
01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:05.440
It's not only cinematography, it's also focus pulling, of course, which I think they never get enough credit.
01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:07.760
Uh the gaffers, amazing.
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:09.519
What would we be without them?
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:09.760
Yeah.
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.079
The key grips, the grips, you know, our department.
01:03:14.239 --> 01:03:20.800
Uh we are always the sum of everything, which also is I always feel is a big responsibility as a DP.
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:24.320
You know, I want everybody to be proud of their work, what they do.
01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:27.280
Could because we kind of manifest it.
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:27.760
Yeah.
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:33.199
You know, and I want them to say at the end of the day, look, I was part of this.
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:35.039
Look, um, it looks great.
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:35.440
Yeah.
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:39.119
Well, listen, thank you very much for coming on.
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:39.440
Thank you.
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:42.480
And uh really appreciate everything all your insight.
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:43.440
So thank you very much.
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:43.920
Thank you.
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:44.960
Have a good one.
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:45.440
Thank you.