Rob McConnell Interviews - JOHN KACHUBA - Ghosthunting Ohio and Ghosthunting Illinois

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And welcome to another edition of the Xzone. I am
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Rob McConnell. We're coming to you around the world from
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our broadcast center in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. If you'd like
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to send me an email, xon Adexon Radio TV dot
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com on all social media sites Xzone Radio TV. To
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find out about the programming we have on the Xzone
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Broadcast Network radio side, just go to www dot XNBN
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dot net and for the Xzone TV channel, we are
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on SIMULTV Channel twenty one. My guest this hour is
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a gentleman that we've had the pleasure of having on
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the show before. John Kitchuba is his name, and he
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is the award winning author of twelve books and numerous articles,
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short stories and poems. John holds advanced degrees in creative
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writing and teaches that subject through Ohio University and the
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Gotham Writers Workshop. He is a member of the Historical
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Novel Society and the Horror Writers Association. John frequently speaks
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on the paranormal and metaphysical topics and is a regular
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speaker at universities and libraries, paranormal conferences, and on radio
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and TV shows. He has been a repeat guest on
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several of those radio and TV shows, including here in
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the X Zone. He has also been a faculty member
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at many writers conferences and is available for future conferences
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and writing workshops now. John has also worked with writers
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and writing students in Cambodia, Malta, Portugal, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.
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And we're here tonight with John to talk about his
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new book, shapeshifter a History and John Kochuba. Welcome back
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to the X Zone. Great having you with us. John,
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Thank you, Robins.
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Great to be back.
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So let's see, it's been a while since you've been
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with us. What have you been up to?
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Yes, Well, probably the most exciting thing is the book
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that's coming out in May that we're talking about tonight.
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I had a chance to research that in twenty seventeen
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in eight different countries in Europe, and then a little
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bit earlier actually end of last year and the beginning
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of this year five countries in Asia. So I've done
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a lot of traveling to get that book done. That's
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been pretty exciting for me.
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Well, let me ask you a very basic question, and
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I think it's the first question I should ask you,
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is what is a shape shifter?
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Right?
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You know, when we think of shape shifters, we think
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probably of the classic werewolf and vampire. What a shape
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shifter is very simply is a person that can transform themselves,
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either voluntarily or involuntarily, to an animal, to perhaps another person,
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sometimes even an inanimate object. And they exist in every
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culture around the world and have existed from time immemorial,
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it seems, led up to the present day.
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So shift in euro opinion and after doing all this research,
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our shifters more than shape shifters? Are they more than
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just urban legend?
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Well, you know, my research is telling me that there
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are people around the world who will swear by having
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had shapeshifter experiences. Now, as I said earlier, they're in
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every culture.
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Yeah, you can.
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Find folk lore, mythology, and every culture about shape shifters.
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But yet even today we have newspaper stories about people
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witnessing shape shifting events. We have people coming forward saying
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that they have seen something happening, They've seen something or
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somebody change into something else before the very eyes. So
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is it just urban legend? You know, who knows? There
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are people that swear they are not urban legends.
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I've got a friend who swears he married a shape
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shifter because prior to the marriage and the ring going on,
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she was really sweet and wonderful, and as soon as
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she got the ring on, she turned into a banshee. Yeah,
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there you go. What are the most prevalent or the
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most notable shape shifters in history.
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Well, there's been quite a few. If you go back
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to antiquity, for instance, and I did in my book
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By the Way I cover you know, it's non fiction,
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and it covers, I say, the cultural shape shifter in
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cultures all around the world, times ancient times up to today.
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So if you go back ancient you know, ancient Egypt,
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if you look at some of the gods that were
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depicted in pyramids and tombs and statues and whatever, we
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see forms that are not necessarily shape shifting, in that
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they seem to be frozen between human shape and animal shape.
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For instance, the god Anubis is a very typical one
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completely human body, male body, but the head of a jackal. Right,
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we have a taroet which is very interesting. It's a female.
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She has a torso of a pregnant female human female,
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but the head of a hippopotamus and the tale of
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a crocodile. Well, you know, so we have those that
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were sort of not really shape shifting because there, as
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I say, sort of locked into this hybrid form. But
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then you look at something like Greek culture where you
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have Zeus who was shape shifted into twenty or thirty
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different kinds of animals throughout his career as gods of Olympia,
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you know, changing into bulls, changing into swans, changing into ravens,
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changing into all kinds of animals, even changing into other people,
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and primarily to have sex with women. That was kind
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of his rationale for shape shifting. But you know, then
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you go into the more common ones that we all know,
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like I say, werewolves, vampires. Those are probably the two
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that people really resonate with, and probably most of the
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literature that you see, most of the films and books whatever,
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are about those two types of shape shifters.
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Why do you think, John, people are so interested, so
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curious about shape shifters and the reality that they still
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might truly exist even here in the twenty first century.
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I think I think part of this goes back to
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ancient times and our connection to the animal kingdom. We're
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animals ourselves. We always like to think we're people, and
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then there's animals, well.
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I don't know an animal a few times in our lives, Yeah.
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Right, and we're just one of many animals out there.
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But you know, if you look back at some of
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the indigenous cultures, the ancient indigenous cultures and perhaps even
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some of the contemporary ones, where hunters will wear the
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pelts or skins of animals that they're trying to hunt,
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the worthy antlers, the horns, the claws, and they'll frequently,
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you know, do ritual dances and almost put themselves in
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a trance. And why they do that. They do that
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because they feel that they can take on that power,
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the speed of that animal, the cunning of that animal,
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so they can better trap them themselves and you know,
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kill them. So you have that kind of connection. You
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also have if you look at the Norse society, the Burserkers,
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which if the audience doesn't know who these people were,
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these guys were really bad warriors. I mean they were horrible.
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They would wear either wolf pelts or bare pelts with
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the head and all that, and they would go into
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battle in a frenzy. That's where we get our word
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perserque from. It comes from the Purserkers. These guys were
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crazy and what they did. There's some evidence of archaeological
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evidence that says they were probably in addition to getting
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themselves sort of an ritual state, they're probably also taking
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some drugs, probably mushrooms that would put them this way.
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But what they would take on the personality or the animal.
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They were animals, and when they were in battle, you
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had to stay away from them, even if you were
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an ally, because they were so crazy in battle that
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they would just they'd kill anything that came near them.
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In fact, the scandidate in countries back and probably the
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I'm guessing about the twelve Center so actually had to
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outlaw per Sircers because they were so dangerous. So we
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have this connection, we have this animal connection, and it's
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because we recognize some of the powers and abilities that
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animals have. So I think that's part of why we
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are attracted to the idea shape shifter sort of being
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an animal again in a way. But I think there's
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something else involved too. I think that for the most part,
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you know, shape shifters sort of represent our darker side.
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All of us are good and bad, moral immoral right,
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we're a mix of things. It's society and our laws
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and our sense of morality, perhaps our religion that keeps
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us in line, that says you don't go out and
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kill your neighbor. You know you don't. You don't do that,
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You're not supposed to do that. But the shape shifter
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allows you sort of that freedom in a sense of
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a fantasy to kind of indulge in those in those
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darker side urges. Let's say, and I don't mean to
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actually go out and do it, but by watching a
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shape shift movie or something, perhaps you can relate to
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it that way. But also, I don't want to just
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harp on the darker, darker side, because shape shift there's
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also can be something good. It could represent something that
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you are not right now. It's something you desire to be,
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something better than what you are. So there's that too.
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It's sort of wish fulfillment in a way that a
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shape shifter character can represent something that you that you
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want it, that you want to be in your nightmares,
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or that you want to be when you go to church,
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one or the other.
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So safe to say, and I've got about twenty seconds
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before I have to go for my first break, is
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it safe to say that shape shifting, for the most part,
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is a matter of mind over matter.
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Well it is. I mean, I think there's there's two things.
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There's an external shape shift these are terms I've given.
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But an external shape shift or where there is actually
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a physical outward change where you know Werewolf in London,
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the movie the guy turns into a where Okay, but
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there's also what I call on internal shapeshifts.
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All right, let's hold it right there, John, We've got
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to take our first break Exshon Nation. John Katuba is
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our special guest. We're talking to John this hour about
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his new book shape Shifters, a History his website John
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Katuba dot com. And John and I will return on
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the other side of this break as we continue here
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in the X Zone from our broadcast center and studios
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in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada on x EDBN and Simul TV.
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I'm Rob mcconnelld uk Away. Explanation. There's something about a
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shape shifter, a person who can transform into an animal
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that captures our imagination, that causes us to want to
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howl at the moon or flirt through the night like
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a bat. Wherewolves, vampires, demons and other weird creatures appeal
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to our animal nature or dark side, our desire to
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break free of the bonds of society and proper behavior.
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Real or imaginary shape shifters lurk deep in our psyches
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and remain formidable cultural icons. I guess this hour is
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John Kachuba, and he is the author of Shape Shifters,
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A History. Welcome back, John, Thanks you were there shapeshifters
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in Biblical times as well.
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There were. One of the most common examples is an
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involuntary shape shifter. I can think of the story of
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Watt's Wife right where a lot and his wife are
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old to leave the burning cities of Sodomonomor and not
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look behind them, and of course she does, and she's
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turned into a pillar of assault. That's shape shifting. I
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don't think that was what she wanted to happen. It's
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an involuntary thing. But there are there are certainly other
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elements in the Bible, and in fact, one of the
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most interesting things is recent study by the boy I'm
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sorry the name escapes me right now, but it's in
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the book. A recent study of some Coptic literature. Coptic
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actually the Pirrus that was found, you know, thousands of
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years old, that was just recently found. In translating this
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it seems to indicate that Jesus may have been a
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shape shifter. And I know that's not going to go
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very well with a lot of members of your audience.
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That I'm not claiming that that's true. We understood, You're
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just saying that this is research.
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Now, now, how would you how would we explain the
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shape shifting of Jesus into what?
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Well, for one thing, the way the way these these
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scraps of paper translate, and I just I'm going to
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paraphrase because I don't have it directly in front of me.
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But one said describing him was that they said like
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he's read one time white at another time, that he's old,
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that he's young. I seemed to describe him in various
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forms as a human, but various forms of humanity, which
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would indicate shape shifting, because again, a shape shifter can
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change into another human form. It doesn't have to be
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directly to an animal. But one of the mysteries too,
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is there's after the resurrection in the Bible says Jesus
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is walking along the road to a Mais. Now he's
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not wrong, I'm sorry. Two of his disciples are walking
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along the road to a Mais and they're talking. This
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is after Jesus has died and they don't know that
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he's resurrected all of a sudden, They say he appears
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in their midst, but they don't recognize him. Now, they
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just spent you know, two or three years in his ministry,
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following him all around within day in, day out, and
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only shortly after his death he reappears to them and
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they don't recognize him. So people are speculating that why
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didn't they recognize him? Was he in a disguise in
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a sense that he shapes shift into another form for himself.
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The other thing, too, is at the I think the
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Garden of Cassemine, when Jesus is arrested by the Jewish
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police security police. Basically Judas says to them that you'll
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recognize him by I'll kiss his cheek, You'll recognize him
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by the man that I kiss. And again, what is
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this recognition factor? He was well known to everybody. Why
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would they not be able to recognize at the time.
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So the speculation on this, and as I say, it's
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you know, it's there's a lot of room for controversy here.
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I'm not you know, it's interesting though, it.
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Is why did you decide to write a book on
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shape shifting.
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It was kind of a sort of a next jump
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for me. I had already written five books about ghosts
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and hauntings, and in reading that, especially in reading literature
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about Japanese ghosts, I found that Japanese ghosts are frequently
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shape shifters, and I sort of got interested in that
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aspect of it, like, well, that's interesting, you know, why
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is that? And growing up in a tradition that I
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had a very strong liberal education, I had a lot
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of the Greek mythology and all that already behind me too,
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and recognize that there're shape shifters in there. And so
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I just started looking at that, and I discovered more
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and more how wide spread the shape shifter character was
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and how enduring, you know, thousands of years and we
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still have shape shifters stories and we still have people
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that swear by actual encounters with shape shifters.
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Is it possible that the term shape shifting can be
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applied to the transition of a physical person into a spirit.
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Well, I think that's part of the way the Japanese
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look at it when we talk about Japanese ghosts, And yeah,
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I would I would agree to that. And that actually
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becomes very theological again it does you know if somebody,
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if somebody dies and you're the belief that they become spirit, well,
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that is definitely a transformation of some kind that is
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shape shifting. You may not see that spirit or anything else, but.
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It's there, right because back in the olden days, people
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really didn't have any concept or actual idea about about
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physiology what happens at a time of Deathol, neither do
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we to a certain extent, but we're certainly more ahead
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than we were back then. And is it possible that
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this where the concept of a ghost actually came from,
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from the transition of the physical transitioning or shape shifting
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into a to waste spirit. And if a person at
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the point of their death can shape shift, why do
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we think that it's all has to be the spirit
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of a person. It could be into another animal, another
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another being. You know that this opens up the door
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to so many possibilities.
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Right well, And actually, if you want to talk about reincarnation,
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sure there's that where you may not necessarily come back
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in another life as a woman, may come back as
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an animal or something or hire more developed human or whatever.
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So yeah, I think there's some possibility to what you're saying.
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We obviously we.
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Don't know, So tell me in your opinion Dracula myth
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or reality a.
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Little bit of both. So part of my research for
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the book, one of the countries that I was in
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was Romania, and I checked out all the Dracula sites.
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I was at the home where he was born, the Seklor,
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the house was born I was. I visited some of
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the ruins of some of the palaces that some of
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them were built by his father. When I say his
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I'm talking about the Drakoul Vlad Draghul, who was a
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Romanian leader in the fifteenth century Middle Ages. His father
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and then Vlod two were both pretty ruthless medieval rulers,
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but that was not uncommon for medieval rulers to be
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pretty ruthless, but would visit the sites that were important
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to Vlad too, so some of the palaces and things
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like that, And I also went to his tomb where
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he's buried. The reason why I bring him up is
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because he is believed to be the model for bram
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Stoker's Count Dracula when he wrote about it. There's really
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now indication that says v Dragcool was a vampire, but
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he was a pretty bloodthirsty person. He defended Waalakia which
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is now part of Romania, against the Turks, and when
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he took ten thousand Turkish prisoners, he impaled them all
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on spikes along a road that the next Turkish army
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was going to come through. When they saw ten thousand
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of their fellow soldiers and paled on polls, they left.
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You know, So there's stories that grew up around him
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being not only bloodthirsty, but maybe being something else. And
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DrAk Cool d r a c u l, which was
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their actual family name in Romanian, translates to the devil
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that so is it a myth? Well, you know a
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lot of stories I said came up around around him
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after he died, and centuries after stories developed because of
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his blood thirsty nature. Now there are people in Romania
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that will tell you that, yeah, he was he was
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something else. He was not just human. He was some
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kind of a devil or vampire or spirit of some sort.
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So that's out there, you know.
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There, you just brought up something very interesting. Can shape
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shifting be applied to a person who is unpossessed who
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becomes possessed? They transform from the or the shape, the
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shape shift from a person into a demonically possessed person.
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Well, I don't. I think it's possible. One thing that
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does happen. If you look at all the literature about
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shape shifters. I started mentioning a little bit earlier, there's
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voluntary shape shifts, involuntary shape shifters. And the voluntary ones
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are the shamans, the wizards, the witches, whatever you want
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to call them in society that we're able to uh,
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have the power to do it, that can change themselves.
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Uh.
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The involuntary ones were the ones that were frequently cursed
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by those same people sometimes. So I think of a werewolf, right,
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every time the full moon comes out out he turns
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into wherewealth despite he doesn't do that voluntarily. It's a curse.
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You think of even some of the fairy tales, like
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the frog prince. It's poor guy's turn into a frog, right,
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a witch beauty and the beast. You know, the beast
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is not a beast, he's a prince that's turned into
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it again by a witch a curse. So there's that.
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So if you can curse a person to become something
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other an animal or whatever, Why couldn't you curse them?
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I supposed to be possessed, although that term possession is
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a little bit it's fraught with different meanings. I mean
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a lot of times we're talking about somebody who really
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has some kind of diabolical entity that has entered him.
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But that would change in, wouldn't it. It would certainly
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change in.
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All right, stand by John, You and I have to
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take our break at the bottom of the hour for
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the news next donation. John Katsuba's our special guest this
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hour www dot John Katchuba dot com, and John and
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I will be back on the other side of this
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news break as we continue talking about shape shifting. Here
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the X from our broadcast center and studio in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
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I'm Rob McConnell.
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Bunk Away.
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Explanation. I'm talking to John Kachuba. He's the author of
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Shape Shifters, a History. His website is www dot John
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Kachuba dot com. All right, let's let's switch a little
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bit from the past and let's get into the present
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because I'd like to talk to you about the about
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the alien or the reptilian alien shape shifting that we
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hear about these days from people who are right into
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e ts UFOs and alien abductions.
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Right, this is a theory well, reptilian alien shape shifters.
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The whole idea is a theory that's put up by
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a guy in England named David. I don't know how
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you pronounced.
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This last name ikes ike like bike.
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Okay, I thought that was it. I didn't want to
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insulted by wrong. And basically the theory is that, you know, eons,
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millions of years ago, I don't know how long, but
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very long time ago, Earth was visited by aliens of
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sort of a reptilian nature and they came to Earth
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basically settled here and mate it with the proto humans
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that were here at the time whatever whatever they looked like,
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you know. And this race is still with us in Earth,
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living among us, hidden by carrying these reptilian alien genes. Uh,
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and they are apparently able to shift into reptilian form.
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And the interesting thing about this theory is that, according
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to Ikes what you said, the idea is that a
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lot of these shape shifters is Bertillian. Alien shape shifters
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have achieved some success as as famous athletes or actors
401
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or you know, artists or politicians, and.
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Is the Queen of England is Reptilian?
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00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:07.720
Yes, right of England. Barack Obama supposedly. I think I
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don't know who almost, but I mean there's several around
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the world.
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Uh.
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And it's an interesting theory. What's really interesting about is
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that there are millions of people that subscribe to you know,
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newsletters and websites and all that talking about this. And
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if you go on the Internet and just plug in
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reptilian alien shape shifter videos, right, you'll see a bunch
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And what people will show you is a change in
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the eye that will show you that you and I
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becoming sort of like like a snake eye. You know,
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people changes everything. Of course, you know, we know you
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can do a lot with photoshop, and you know you
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can certainly alter videos. So I don't I personal will
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put a lot of stock in this theory, but a
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lot of.
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People do neither do Why I give it no credibility whatsoever.
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And I think, David, I you know I was going
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to say, but yeah, no, I call it as it is.
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I call it spat a spade. And if anything, I
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think David I because a charlatan out there. He's got
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his little groupies. He's found his little niche in a
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market that is so easy to get a following with
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today because in my opinion, the Internet is the largest
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septic tank that mankind has ever created, because there's more
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crap in it than anything else. And my question to
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David that I never got an answer on, was are
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you a reptilian?
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Well, you know, that's a good point. How does he
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know so much about it?
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Right? Well? You know, well, the person who a person
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who writes nonfiction creates, you know, has a creative imagination
436
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and can write about anything, create his own characters, and
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you know, he knows it better than anybody else. And
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I think this is what happened with David. I think
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that I think that he decided that, you know, this
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was a little nieche. You know, the aliens were taken,
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the grades were taken, so why don't we come up
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with a different race. Unfortunately, for David, there is no
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scientific evidence whatsoever to give any of his theory any credibility, right,
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you know, so it's rather sad to see so many
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people being taken by such a vivid imagination. And you know,
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I've often wondered what that tells us about society? Are
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we that desperate for an alternative, that we're willing to
448
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accept anything.
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Oh well, yeah, I mean I think in some ways
450
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that's sort of what the shape shifter comes into. Yeah,
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if we're not satisfied with who we are and what
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we do and the person that we are, and we
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put our faith in sort of a shape shift or
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what is that saying about us?
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Exactly?
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Our shape shifter. I would imagine then when somebody puts
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on a Halloween costume and they go out going door
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to door, that they are in fact taking the role
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of a shape shifter.
460
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:01.640
Well, yeah, they are a strong connection there. And I
461
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have to say that I'm a major fan of Halloween
462
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and every year my wife and I do a massive
463
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Halloween party in costume. So there. But I do think
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there is something to it. I think that, you know,
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if we accept the fact that we sort of virtually
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take on the aspect of a character, then what better
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way to do it than behind a mask and a costume, right,
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I mean, it's a safe way to do that if
469
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you want to talk about safety. But you know, an
470
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interesting thing is that in the eighteenth century masquerades were
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banned in England. A masquerade came to England from Italy,
472
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and that alone was bad because the English did not
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like Italians and it was Protestants versus Papists.
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And all that.
475
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So there was a lot going on there. But they
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considered Italians to be completely immoral, and being half Italian,
477
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I would argue at that point, but sure anyway, But
478
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so they banned the masquerades in the eighteenth century because
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people are coming to them obviously in masquerade, they're coming
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in costume, and they were able to do pretty much
481
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:12.759
whatever they wanted to do. They took liberties with each other,
482
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.720
between sexes and you know, people in authority, lower people, whatever.
483
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:23.400
They took all these liberties that were frequently immoral, illegal
484
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.279
and became a real problem. So they were acting out
485
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:29.640
instead of just putting on the mask and costume and
486
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.680
learning with that, they were truly acting out that persona
487
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.799
they were taking on. So there's that, which kind of
488
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.680
leads me into costplay, which is, you know, a big thing.
489
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:46.039
There's cost play conventions and people spend millions and millions
490
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:47.240
of dollars every year.
491
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.359
Tell our listeners more about this, because I'm sure around
492
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.559
the world, yes.
493
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:52.240
It is.
494
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:58.359
It's people taking on the characters of anime figures or
495
00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.920
figures from movies.
496
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:02.759
Figures from comic books.
497
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:05.079
You know, And and they'll dress like those characters. I
498
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:08.599
mean right to the nth degree. They'll dress like those characters,
499
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.279
and they will act like those characters. So if one
500
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.559
of those characters speak some some weird alien language and
501
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.279
you address him in English, he's going to answer you
502
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:20.319
in this alien language. And he's not going to talk
503
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:22.960
team in English because that's not who he is. And
504
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.839
these people, I mean, it's fun for them, and I
505
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:28.160
have nothing, I have no problems about them doing it.
506
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.559
But there are huge conventions held all around the world
507
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.759
where these cost players and that's short for costume cos
508
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:40.440
it's cost player. These cost players get together, uh and
509
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.640
you know, they just they have different you know, workshops,
510
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.920
and they show movies everything else, but everybody is dressed up.
511
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:53.400
So if there's a if there's a costplay convention anywhere
512
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.640
near your town, it's just worth it to go just
513
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.319
just to see that. But it's it's a whole subculture
514
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.119
that's the developed and it's relatively harmless. I mean, I
515
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.519
don't see any harm in it, although some of it
516
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.400
has gotten to the point where costplay has moved into
517
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.480
more the pornograph.
518
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.720
Again, I say, well, isn't it safe to say then,
519
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:22.640
for example, Patrick Stewart in real life when he plays
520
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.960
Captain Jean Luc Picard and don's the uniform of a
521
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:30.079
star Trek Starfleet officer, that he is in fact a
522
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:30.680
shape shifter.
523
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:34.279
Well, he is, and he's in that role, but I
524
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:37.279
think the difference with him and maybe it's the same
525
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.079
thing as a cost player, but I think when he
526
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:41.920
takes off that uniform at home, that costs him. I
527
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:47.319
think he's not a character anymore. Cost players. I'm not sure,
528
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:50.440
because they in addition to that, there's games they play
529
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.559
and everything else, and there's you know, magazines they get
530
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.359
in newsletters and they're really into that culture more. But
531
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:58.279
they are in fact acting.
532
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.359
All right, So what about these people who who who
533
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:06.519
partake in the War of eighteen twelve. They get fully
534
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.759
costumed and they you know, make sure they have this
535
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.319
right kind of rifle and they want to look the same.
536
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:13.480
Isn't that shape shifting as well?
537
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:14.519
Yeah?
538
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.599
Well, yeah, absolutely, I would say so. I mean they're
539
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.799
historical reenactors as well, they would call themselves, and that's fine,
540
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.400
but they certainly are shape shifting and in a true sense,
541
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.920
because again it's not just a uniform. Yeah, but you
542
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.039
know the hardcore guys that do this and women that
543
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:32.279
do it again, you know, they use equipment and everything
544
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.680
from that time period, they cook food from that time period,
545
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.960
they live in tense or whatever from that time period,
546
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.640
So they're very much into that.
547
00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:42.119
So can we also say that people who partake in
548
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.920
virtual reality games online are also shape shifting, except they're
549
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:50.519
just using the digital version instead of the costume to
550
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:51.640
become shape shifters.
551
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.039
Yeah, I think you can make you case too, And
552
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:56.559
that to me is more what are called the internal
553
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.279
you know, because obviously you're not turning into some superhero
554
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:01.160
when you're sitting in or chair playing the game.
555
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:05.000
But to them, they are, they are mentally you are, yeah,
556
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:08.000
right exactly. So what are we saying here that we're
557
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:12.240
looking at something that could be a danger in society
558
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.200
when you've got these people actually believing there's somebody else
559
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.240
and they're escaping reality using costumes, are using the digital
560
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:24.480
world virtual reality. Are we seeing a trend that we're
561
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.440
getting more to the wu wo side of reality than
562
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.839
the hardcore basic reality of looking at the problems and saying,
563
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.519
you know, this is how it solved, but it's easier
564
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.839
to run into a costume. Yeah.
565
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.200
Well, I think there's two things there. I think to
566
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.319
your second point last point, I think yes. I think
567
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:43.920
for some people it is easier just to say I
568
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.559
can't deal with this, so I'm going to go into
569
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:48.480
costume and go into a fantasy world.
570
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:51.680
All right, we're going to late. Let you talk with
571
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:53.720
the second part when we come back from our final
572
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.200
break exce Oanation. John Kachuba is our special guest. His
573
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:02.279
book is Shape Shifters A History. His website is John
574
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.079
Kachuba dot com. And we'll be back as we wrap
575
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.400
up this hour here in the X Zone on the
576
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.960
X Zone Broadcast Network and Simul TV on the other
577
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.719
side of this break.
578
00:34:11.800 --> 00:35:03.239
Don't go away.
579
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.159
Www dot John Kachuba dot com is the website of
580
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.519
our guest this hour, John Katchuba. He is the author
581
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.760
of Shape Shifters A History. First of all, John, I well,
582
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:16.880
thank you so much for coming on the show. Congratulations
583
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:20.559
on a fascinating book. I wish you much success and
584
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:23.960
it's a great Senior. Again, it's been quite a while.
585
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.519
In fact, the last time you go on, I think
586
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.119
we were talking about ghosts. If my memory serves me great,
587
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:31.760
Are you still involved in the world of the power
588
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.440
normal at the ghost level?
589
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.039
Yeah, I am, But I said, I'm sort of expanded,
590
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.280
you know, because shape shifters, and I don't know where
591
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.480
I'll go premiere next Yeah, but yeah, still there.
592
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.679
So when we look at the world of shape shifters,
593
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:51.880
the do you get reports from people who read your
594
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:53.719
book and say, hey, listen, I don't know if you
595
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:57.880
know this, but I saw somebody shape shifter. I'm a
596
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.719
shape shifter. I can turn myself into whatever.
597
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:05.960
Well, the book isn't out yet, so I haven't had
598
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:09.360
those kinds of reports directly from people. But again, as
599
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.079
I said, there's been a lot of newspaper accounts of
600
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:17.280
people saying that they've seen people shift and it's happening,
601
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:18.920
you know, in other areas.
602
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:21.559
I suppose based on your research, how can we tell
603
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.199
if somebody is being real with us when they talk
604
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.840
about shape shifting and not just making it up? Are
605
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.000
there any red flags to watch out for?
606
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:33.800
Wow? You know, that's the same question that I asked
607
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:37.440
every time I was doing investigative work from my books
608
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.639
about ghosts. You know, how do I know somebody is
609
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:43.800
actually telling me the truth going And to be honest,
610
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:45.320
you know, I'm not a detective.
611
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:45.760
I don't know.
612
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.119
I mean what I try to do is when I
613
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:49.840
hear a story, is I just try to research as
614
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.920
much as possible to see, well, okay, this person said
615
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.519
they saw a shape shift or a ghost or whatever.
616
00:36:56.519 --> 00:37:00.480
Have other people seen it before? Are there other ports,
617
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.360
someplace written reports or anything that would sort of back
618
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.960
up that story, some other documentation. Even then, I don't
619
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:10.599
necessarily know if that individual person who was talking to
620
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:12.719
me is being straight with me, but at least I
621
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.719
might be able to find something to back it up.
622
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.559
And I was really careful that when I when I wrote,
623
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.239
well actually all my books that I wrote to try
624
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.639
to make sure that I had some backup. So I
625
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:25.519
just didn't rely on one person coming to me saying, hey,
626
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:27.760
I saw a ghost yesterday or I saw a shape shifter,
627
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:29.880
you know, because it's too easy to do. Anybody can
628
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:32.480
do that. So I tried to dis bess I could
629
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:34.840
to make sure I had some corroboration.
630
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:42.079
What's your favorite Shafe shape shifting story.
631
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:47.679
Well, there's one that just came out. It was twenty fourteen.
632
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.519
I actually I think I mentioned this. It's from a place.
633
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.119
It's from Nigeria, and the story is that there were
634
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.239
villagers in a small town in Nigeria, a small village,
635
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.719
and they saw three black birds flying over the village
636
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.159
just around daybreak. The next thing they know in their
637
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.599
midst is this old woman. She's ninety years old and
638
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:12.920
she was wearing black and she said that she was
639
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:17.039
one of those birds, and that she said she was
640
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.880
a witch, and that she was flying back from her
641
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.920
comfin and that as she was flying back with the
642
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:26.800
other two birds, who I assume were also witches, she
643
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:30.159
got lost on her way back to my way back home.
644
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.840
And because of that, she was out until the morning
645
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.400
till daybreak, and she lost her powers. She lost her
646
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.119
witch powers and so she reverted back to her form
647
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:46.280
again as an old lady's nigear old lady. I like
648
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:48.559
the story because the villagers swear by it, and it
649
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.679
made the newspapers in Nigeria as a legitimate like hey,
650
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.320
this is an incredible story, but not like oh, this
651
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.800
is a wild story. And I was like, no, this
652
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.639
is a true story.
653
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:57.960
You know.
654
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:02.400
That's how I was reported to Nigeria, which isn't surprising
655
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.559
really a lot of indigenous cultures, you know, straightforward, there's
656
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.639
not a lot of research, but you tell me this happens,
657
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:11.039
that happens. But the interesting thing too about this little
658
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:14.400
PostScript to that story is that for some reason, when
659
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.639
the villagers were talking to her and asking her about
660
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.000
where she came from and all that, she admitted to
661
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.800
murdering her husband, just sort of out of the blue,
662
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.639
like I'm a witch, I'm lost, and oh yeah, by
663
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:28.880
the way, I murdered my husband. So very interesting shape
664
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:30.000
shifter story.
665
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:34.039
To say the very least. Hoot. How about in Native
666
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:38.920
American folklore and legend or are there shape shifting examples there? Yeah.
667
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:43.400
Probably the most well known one is skinwalkers, which are
668
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.199
common among the DNAE people the Navajo the Southwest, and
669
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.760
skinwalkers basically are shamans. They're wizards or which is it
670
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.039
could be female who take on the form, usually of
671
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.840
an animal, but it can sometimes be another person and
672
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:03.039
they're more level. There's nothing nice about them when they
673
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:06.880
take on that form. Their reason is to injure or
674
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:12.000
kill somebody, and it's usually revenge for something done to them,
675
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.519
So they are widely feared by the Denay and as
676
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:18.519
well as some other Native American peoples in Southwest. They
677
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:21.400
won't even talk about skinwalkers.
678
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.360
Is it possible that in cases like this, when somebody
679
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:29.320
becomes a shape shifter, takes a different shape and commits
680
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:33.639
a crime like murder, that the that the shape shifting
681
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.239
is actually an alibi and has nothing really to do
682
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:41.599
with the act itself, That the person who committed the
683
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:45.400
murder had full intent of doing it, but they're using
684
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:48.360
the shape shifting as an alibi, And like, yeah, geez,
685
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:50.480
I didn't know I was doing it because I was
686
00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:51.280
something else.
687
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:54.400
Sure, Sure, I mean it's possible. There's a lot of
688
00:40:54.440 --> 00:41:00.599
cases about lacanthropy people claiming to be werewolves. In my book,
689
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:04.159
I've got maybe six or seven cases of people who
690
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:08.960
went out and murdered, you know, several individuals or this
691
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.440
is a couple of centuries, mostly in France, Germany wherever,
692
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.199
who killed several individuals and you know, would eat them
693
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:17.840
and everything else in the claiming that they were wolves,
694
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.000
and even locked up in institutions. You'd be crawling around
695
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.440
on all fours playing to the wolves. Now, is that
696
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:27.039
just the way out claiming insanity? Is that a way
697
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:28.239
out of is that a.
698
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:31.039
Defense, Yeah, could be sure.
699
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:33.199
But on the other hand, there are people that I
700
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:36.559
think truly believe that that has happened to them, that
701
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.599
they have become a wolf or a skin walker, or
702
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.480
you know, some other entity. Those are the internal shape
703
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:46.000
shifters that I was talking about before, or something inside
704
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.840
them mentally says, yes, this is who you are. Even
705
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:50.519
though you look at the mirror they don't see a wolf.
706
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.400
I'm sure it's something inside mentally. When it comes to
707
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:59.079
that kind of act, is there a crossover within the
708
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.840
paranormal between shape shifting and other aspects of the paranormal
709
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.480
that you have investigated in the past or written about
710
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:05.960
in the past.
711
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:07.880
Crossover?
712
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.960
Let's take Bigfoot. Nobody finds a Bigfoot. Is it possible
713
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.159
that Bigfoot is a shape shifter?
714
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.840
Well, you know, I don't know. I'm not really a bigfoot,
715
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:24.760
you know, professional, but I suppose it's possible. I tend
716
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.920
to believe that Bigfoot is just some species of animal
717
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:32.320
that is just avoid you know, evaded us for centuries,
718
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.679
and I just have to be some other ape or
719
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.119
something that we don't know about yet.
720
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.360
But what would you like to tell the listening audience
721
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:41.760
of the x ow Nation now about shape Shifting, and
722
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.639
also tell them where they can get a copy of
723
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:44.079
your book.
724
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:47.079
Sure, sure, Well, the book will be out at the
725
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:50.320
end of May early June, and it actually can be
726
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:53.840
pre ordered right now at my website, which is as
727
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.719
you mentioned before, John Kochuba dot com. Or it can
728
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.119
actually be ordered from the University of Chicago Press, who
729
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.360
is the distributor for the publisher here in the US.
730
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.320
It's actually being published in the UK. So then I'll
731
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:10.440
be around and I'll be speaking, you know, all universities
732
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:13.840
and libraries like I always do conferences, So all that
733
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:15.760
information is on my website too, and I hope that
734
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:19.000
people will check my schedule of appearances and come see
735
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:20.599
me and hear what I have to say. And I'd
736
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.199
like to hear what they have to say. I'm always
737
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:25.519
interested in the stories that people tell me when I
738
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:27.400
make my presentations.
739
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.880
So what's next for you?
740
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:33.719
Well, you know, I'm working now primarily in fiction. Actually
741
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.280
I didn't mention it, but I had a paranormal novel
742
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:39.639
that was published last year called Dark Entry, and it's
743
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:43.239
based on an actual location in Connecticut. I took some
744
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.119
fictional liberties with it, but you know. So I'm working
745
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:50.400
in fiction primarily with some novels, and they always have
746
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.840
a paranormal or ghostly element in it seems.
747
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.320
Why do you think there are so many people today
748
00:43:56.320 --> 00:44:00.639
in the twenty first century so interested in the paranormal ghosts,
749
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.320
bigfoot UFOs, things that go bump the night.
750
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:07.239
Like Yeah, I think this goes back to something we've
751
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.760
sort of hit on before that, you know, when times
752
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:12.840
are are not looking at great. There's a lot of
753
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.039
discontent in America right now in other countries of the
754
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:17.280
world too as well. And I think a lot of
755
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.000
times they're overwhelming, or we think they're overwhelming, and we
756
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.840
don't know how to react to them. So rather than reacting,
757
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:25.159
and we look for something else, and we look for
758
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.639
something outside ourselves, something that we don't have to try
759
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.119
to analyze, something that is beyond us. And that's the paranormal.
760
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.440
I mean it could be you know, maybe religion or
761
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:35.320
something else like that too, But I think a lot
762
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:39.400
of people turn to questions of you know, what's out
763
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:43.360
there in terms of the afterlife or other other spirits,
764
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.159
of their other entities besides us, is their life on
765
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:49.679
other planets that's visiting us? All those kinds of questions,
766
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.639
what's bigfoot? You know all that?
767
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:52.480
I guess.
768
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.920
I guess to some people asking those questions, there's a
769
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:58.519
lot easier than saying what can I do to make
770
00:44:58.559 --> 00:44:59.760
a positive change in the world.
771
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:03.559
Evan, Well, yeah, yeah, I mean there's people that do that,
772
00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:05.599
and I hope there's more of them, But there are
773
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.360
other people that. You know, it's overwhelming. We you just
774
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.960
can't deal with it, so you do something else, You
775
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:12.559
go outside yourself in a different way.
776
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:14.960
John, once again, I want to thank you so much
777
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.760
for joining us. Great talking to you again, continued success,
778
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.679
and once again tell a lot of listeners your website
779
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.159
and how they can get your book when it comes
780
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:22.920
out at the end of May.
781
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:27.559
Sure Wwwjohnkitcuba dot com. You can get the book directly
782
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:30.400
that way. Well, if you pre order it now, it'll
783
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:32.719
be out in the bookstores in May and June. It
784
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:36.280
should be in pretty much most local bookstores, so just
785
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.199
ask for it there. It's on Amazon, it'll be all
786
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:39.519
over you can easily find it.
787
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:41.800
John, take care of yourself and thank you very much
788
00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:42.880
for joining us. Good seeing you.
789
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:44.880
Thanks, take care x O nation.
790
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.519
Our guest this hour has been John Kitchuba once again.
791
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:50.039
If you'd like to find out more about John www
792
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:54.519
dot John Kachuba dot com. Now I'll be back on
793
00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:56.320
the other side of this commercial break with the news
794
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.159
as we continue here in the x oone from our
795
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.719
broadcast center in studios in Wilton, Ontario, Canada. Shape shifting.
796
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:06.639
Are you a skeptic or are you a believer? M
797
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:12.239
let me see here shape shifting. I'll have to go
798
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:15.559
with I've got to take the skeptic side on this
799
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:20.000
because I'm a realist. I even use my real name.
800
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.719
I am Rob McConnell. This is the exceon and we'll
801
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:26.280
be back as once again we cross the time space
802
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:29.079
continuum to this place that I call the XON. Until then,
803
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.639
always keep your eyes to the sky and your heart
804
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:41.679
to the light. Good Night, everyone,