Rob McConnell Interviews - TIM MULLIGAN - Tim Mulligan's World

WEBVTT
1
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:17.440
All Henry, Welcome to the ex Zone, a place where
2
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:22.320
fact is fiction and fiction is reality. Now here's your host,
3
00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:23.280
Robert Connell.
4
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:43.679
Some days I walk, some days I crawl. Some days
5
00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.640
I can't feed much at all.
6
00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:56.880
My body's amazed that I try and read every step
7
00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:05.239
forwardward aside me. But I won't let this break who eye.
8
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:12.400
I've learned how to fight, learn how to stand.
9
00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:22.920
I may fall, still live, rise through the pain, through
10
00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:30.519
the tears in myth. This role is long, but it's
11
00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:38.280
me to tread. With every sun rise, I lift my head.
12
00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:44.439
I won't be to fight. But what I can't do.
13
00:01:45.159 --> 00:02:01.159
Stillris and I always will too. There's fire NDErs fugging
14
00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:08.639
my mind, but love still holds me gentle and kind.
15
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:16.759
I count everything to a batter house Mom, eat a
16
00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:24.120
sandy still to field ten feet all. This storm may
17
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:31.319
shape the ground beating, but it won't steal my soul.
18
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:33.319
I believe.
19
00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:44.520
Abby, fall still love through the down, through the world
20
00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:56.280
by side, keep my mother's, my freaks, heartbeats of thunder
21
00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:05.360
legs is breed. I won't be y what I'm going through.
22
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:16.360
Still every day is something new. There are days where
23
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:22.199
the dark feels too why But I've got my people
24
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:29.439
here by my side. They don't need to fix but
25
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.680
they can't see.
26
00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:37.639
Just walk through the shadows, win me.
27
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:47.520
I made bad, but I'm don't pray in a way
28
00:03:48.080 --> 00:04:04.919
around feet back way that this disease. I am straight face.
29
00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:37.480
Stiller, stiller, and good evening, one and all, and welcome
30
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.560
back to the X Zone. I am Rob McConnell, and
31
00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.199
for the next two hours, I'm your host and your guidess.
32
00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.079
Together we all cross this time space continuum that I
33
00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.360
call the X Zone. It's a place where people dare
34
00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:50.560
to believe and dare to be heard. It's a place
35
00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.800
where fact is fiction and fiction is reality. The X
36
00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:56.480
Zone comes to you Monday through Friday right here on
37
00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.480
the Cancom Broadcast Network and your hometown radio CLI twelve
38
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:05.199
twenty CFAJAM. They not only broadcast us on twelve twenty
39
00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:09.120
AM throughout southern Ontario and the northern tiers of the
40
00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.560
state of New York and Pennsylvania, but they also stream
41
00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:16.519
us around the world on your hometown on Classic twelve
42
00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.560
twenty dot CA. If you would like to send me
43
00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:22.120
an email, x oon at x on radiotv dot com,
44
00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:27.759
and on social media sites. Xone Radio TV dot. Well,
45
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.319
there's not a thing behind the dot is just Xon
46
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:34.040
Radio TV. My producer Tonight, as always is the one
47
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:38.199
and only Craig West and Master Control. Always nice working
48
00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.519
with you, Craig. What's this year? Thirty six? Together? My lord?
49
00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.040
Ninety five percent of marriages don't last this long, Pal,
50
00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.680
Like I said, all was great working with you. X
51
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.199
oll Nation, Tonight's guest, is an award winning playwright, author,
52
00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.759
and creator whose work takes us deep into the shadowy
53
00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:04.199
territory where psychological suspense, supernatural horror, and disturbing reality collide.
54
00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.439
Tim Mulligan is the creative force behind mulligan World and
55
00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:14.199
the acclaimed Witchland Universe, a five part graphic novel series
56
00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:20.600
inspired by the unsettling history surrounding Washington States, Hanford Nuclear Sight,
57
00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:28.120
through stories including Witchland, Snitchland, Twitchland, Ditchland, and the Forthcomings Witchland,
58
00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:36.600
Tim Explorers, government secrecy, radioactive contamination, unexplained phenomenon, human mutial mutation,
59
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:41.800
and the frightening consequences of truths left behind. His creative
60
00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.720
work also includes the stage thrillers which Land, Point, Loma
61
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:51.480
and Pig Butchered, each examining fear, deception, moral ambiguity and
62
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:55.439
the darker edges of human nature. Tonight, we're going to
63
00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.480
journey into Tim's imagination, uncover the real story behind his
64
00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:04.920
fictional universe, and explore the uneasy boundary separating science, superstition,
65
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:11.639
conspiracy and nightmare. His website is www. Dot Mulliganworld dot
66
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.240
com and next donation Please welcome to the show, Tim
67
00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:17.240
Mulligan and Tim Welcome to the X Zone.
68
00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:19.720
They're rob it's going to be back on the show.
69
00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:21.680
I was on it, I think with my last book,
70
00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:23.120
and it's it's fun to come talk to you.
71
00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.279
Well, it's great having you back with us. And how
72
00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:27.839
are things in Palm Springs, California tonight?
73
00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.160
It's good. It's hot. You know, I'm lucky.
74
00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.920
I go back and forth between Palm Springs and San Diego,
75
00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:34.959
so it's not a bad life.
76
00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:36.759
But it's just pretty warm these days.
77
00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.879
So tell us Tim for listeners who may not have
78
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.079
had the opportunity of being with us the last time.
79
00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:48.720
Since we've we've grown substantially over the months and years
80
00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.560
here in the X Zone.
81
00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:50.680
Could you.
82
00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:55.680
Inspire? Can you tell us what inspired you to become
83
00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:56.079
a writer?
84
00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.480
Yeah, you know, I it's it's a great question I have.
85
00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.480
I just started writing late in life, so I you know,
86
00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.399
I have a full time job I've been in.
87
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.879
I'm a lawyer. I've been in human resources for a
88
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:09.600
long long time.
89
00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.160
And it was during during COVID when I was home,
90
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.399
you know, quarantining like the rest of the world, that
91
00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:18.800
I that I thought, you know, at a at a
92
00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.759
ripe young age of fifty five, that I would start
93
00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.720
my hand at something I've always wanted to do, which
94
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.600
was tell some stories about my hometown, which is where
95
00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.279
the Hanford Nuclear side is. And so I just thought
96
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.399
I'd write a scary play about about my time growing
97
00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.799
up there, and that's what with Birth to Witchland the
98
00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:42.240
first story. And since then, that was twenty twenty. Since then,
99
00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:46.000
I just can't stop writing. I've written, you know, four
100
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.440
plays now and that the suple have gone on to
101
00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.200
New York and now I have this series of graphic
102
00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.559
novels and so it's really something that's blossomed late in life.
103
00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.919
But now it's opened up a whole new world to
104
00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.120
me that I that I just love.
105
00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.000
Well, congratulations and it's never too late in this lifetime,
106
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:00.399
is it?
107
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:01.840
I agree?
108
00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:02.200
Yeah?
109
00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.080
Were you fascinated by mysteries, supernatural stories, and psychological horror.
110
00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:07.639
As a child.
111
00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:12.759
Uh yeah, I've always been a big fan of the
112
00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:18.399
horror genre. I like scary things. I especially am drawn to,
113
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.399
you know, scary or supernatural stories that have a modicum
114
00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.279
of truth to them, So you know, something based on
115
00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:29.919
a real place or a real situation that then maybe
116
00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.960
you know, got fictionalized or or depicted in pop culture.
117
00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.320
So yeah, I would say as a young kid, I've
118
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:39.200
always been into I've always loved creative writing.
119
00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.559
I've always had a dark side and and it's just
120
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.399
it's what draws me to this day.
121
00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:47.519
And if you in terms of books that I read
122
00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:50.639
and TV shows and documentaries and things that interest me,
123
00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:52.200
it's usually the darker side alive.
124
00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.440
Which wors, playwrights or filmmakers have had the greatest influence
125
00:09:58.519 --> 00:09:59.399
on your storytelling?
126
00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.039
Say say it again, Who's had the greatest influence on
127
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:04.399
my story?
128
00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.799
Yeah? Which writers, play rights and filmmakers have had the
129
00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:09.679
greatest influence on your story?
130
00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.240
You know, I grew up, I grew up loving Stephen
131
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.879
King and Peter strab You know, I think what started
132
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.200
all of this was I loved I do also love
133
00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.840
life plays in life theater and when one area that
134
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.080
I always thought was missing in that space is a
135
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:24.799
scary play.
136
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:26.879
And so I think I've seen a few.
137
00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.600
I saw a stage version of The Exercisch, which didn't
138
00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:31.919
do much and didn't go anywhere. I saw a few
139
00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:34.320
other plays that have tried to do it. So that
140
00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.879
was my challenge when I started writing, was what if
141
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.039
I could create a scary play.
142
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.759
Put it out in the in the in the universe.
143
00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.919
So I kind of really taught myself.
144
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.720
I learned how to I looked at the formatting of scripts,
145
00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.919
and I had so many stories about Hanford that I
146
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:52.639
grew up with and in my brain that I just
147
00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:57.200
storyboarded this play and knocked it out and and and
148
00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.960
the stories just haven't stopped since then.
149
00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.799
How would you describe Mulligan World to someone encountering or
150
00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:04.039
work for the very first time.
151
00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:08.320
Yeah, I think there's kind of two parts to you know,
152
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.480
what I call Mulligan World. I have my plays and
153
00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:11.759
I have my graphic novels.
154
00:11:12.279 --> 00:11:15.200
The plays are three distinct plays that they're all kind
155
00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.879
of a dark, scary play. Witchland was about my hometown
156
00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.279
and the Hanford nuclear site and the and the history there.
157
00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.240
I wrote a Haunted House play last year that went
158
00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.440
on to win a ton of awards called Point Loma,
159
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.240
based on a house here in San Diego that I
160
00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:36.440
my friends own that that is inhabited by some you know,
161
00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.919
supernatural force that I've experienced. And then my new play
162
00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:42.720
is about to open up in Palm Springs. It's called
163
00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.200
Pig Butcher, and that's really about the bank current trend
164
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.799
of pig Butcher and bank fraud schemes where kind of
165
00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:51.399
a cat's machine scheme for money. So I had the plays,
166
00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.279
but I think, you know, what's really taken off is
167
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.279
the other side of Mulligan World, which was a graphic
168
00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:58.399
novel series.
169
00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.240
I called The World of Witchland, and it's really you.
170
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.360
Know, it started with that play and then I thought, well,
171
00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:06.440
I love graphic novels and comic books so much, and
172
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.120
to really get the story out there to a broader audience,
173
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:11.720
why didn't I try my hand at turning it into
174
00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:12.600
a graphic novel.
175
00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.080
So now what you see a Mulligan World is a
176
00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.320
series of graphic novels.
177
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.519
They all they all the same character as each story
178
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:23.159
builds off the other, and it's all about you know,
179
00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.360
what's it like to live in this community alongside this
180
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:32.679
potentially you know, dangerous industrial you know mess and activity
181
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:33.519
that which which is the.
182
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:34.960
Hand for nuclear cleanup site.
183
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.360
And I think what really inspires me there is just
184
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.600
this idea of you know, I was born and raised there,
185
00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.279
my families were born and raised there, and and this
186
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.720
idea of this kind of toxic history and the stories
187
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:49.120
being passed from one generation to another and they still
188
00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.799
continue today. And you know, just the this all that
189
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:57.480
all that comes with it, the the decades of tragedy
190
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.559
and sickness, kind of the secrets that come from government,
191
00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.399
corporations and communities, and communities.
192
00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.440
Might want to prefer to remain buried. All that interests me.
193
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.000
So what you'll see in Mulligan World is a couple
194
00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.480
plays that I love to write and get out there.
195
00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.840
But what you can purchase and view on your own
196
00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:18.759
is the series of graphic novels about it, about Richland, Washington.
197
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:19.279
Or or the Hanford.
198
00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.159
All right, Tim, we've got to take our first break.
199
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.200
Please time by explanation. Tim Mulligan is our guest and
200
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.720
his website is Mulliganworld dot com. I'm Rob McConnell. This
201
00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:31.879
is the X Own and you're listening to us around
202
00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:35.399
the world on the Cancom Broadcast Network and your hometown
203
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:41.080
radio Classic twelve twenty c FAJAM right here in Saint Catherine's, Ontario,
204
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:45.600
and they stream us live what you're hearing right now
205
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.639
around the world on Classic twelve twenty dot CA.
206
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.720
What I can't do still.
207
00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.639
Dial always will too.
208
00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:23.279
Some spend their lives chasing fortune and fame, building their castles,
209
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:32.080
protecting the name. I chose another road beneath the open
210
00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:43.399
sky following questions that money can't buy. The microphone became
211
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:53.440
my window to the world. But your then wander slowly unfurled.
212
00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:02.120
Every voice, every soul, every story I knew, left a
213
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:03.519
little light.
214
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:12.080
Shine Heavy of you, Heavycage.
215
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.799
To Muggan is my special guest. Www. Dot Mulliganworld dot
216
00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.759
com is the website and tim Your stories frequently explore
217
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.919
the darker side of the human nature. What attracts you
218
00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.519
to those hidden corners of the human experience?
219
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.559
Yeah, you know I think that, Like I said earlier,
220
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.159
I really have drawn to h stories that are based
221
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.240
on fact, but yet you know, kind of show what
222
00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.039
might be lurking underneath the surface. And so for example,
223
00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:47.000
these books, I love that you know, this small town,
224
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.240
with this beautiful town that I grew up in, has
225
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.159
all these secrets underneath it. And I think that that's
226
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.039
what's interesting to me, is it take something that's already
227
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.080
kind of terrifying in real life and asked, what if
228
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.720
there is an even darker story underneath it? And what
229
00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.200
my those secrets and those stories be. And that's why
230
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:06.360
I think Hanford is a perfect backdrop for these stories,
231
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:10.559
because there's just people just can't believe the stories are true,
232
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.960
what's happened out there, and and it's so I'd like
233
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.360
to kind of educate people, but also give them a fun,
234
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.279
supernatural twist on the history as well.
235
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.759
What did you discover about Hanford during a research that
236
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.480
surprised you or even disturbed you the most?
237
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.240
Oh, gosh, you know a lot. I mean I was
238
00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:32.320
born and raised there. I didn't know a lot of
239
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:32.799
the history.
240
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.240
So I mean, you know, it was created in the
241
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.720
late forties to produce plutonium for the bombs that were
242
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.679
dropped in Nagasaki, And it's just this little town that
243
00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.559
was created and the residents of the town didn't even
244
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:46.960
nearly know what they're producing out there until after that
245
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.679
bomb had been dropped and so and then and then
246
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.000
from there from that point on, when there's kind of
247
00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.440
releases of nuclear you know, toxic waste in the air
248
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.919
and people got sick. Over the years, there's just been
249
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.360
you know, story after story after story that you can't
250
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.519
quite believe even in modern day. Now, now it's a
251
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.920
big cleanup, multi billion dollar cleanup site, and there's a
252
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.559
lot of danger there. There's fifty million plus gallons of
253
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.039
toxic waste varied in tanks in the ground that they're
254
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.440
not they still don't know what to do, you know,
255
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.400
and they're trying to keep it from leaking and going
256
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:18.240
into the Columbia River.
257
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.960
So there's one surprise after another.
258
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.039
I think for this book, I really you know, each
259
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.839
book focuses on a different aspect of Hanford and then
260
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.039
I craft a story around. And this one was kind
261
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:32.160
of disturbing because it was all based on you know,
262
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.400
animal experiments that happened there from the late forties all
263
00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:39.680
the way through the seventies, and I kind of heard
264
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.680
about it. I knew that there was a lab out
265
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.200
there where animal experience experiments were happening. I just didn't
266
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:47.160
know the extent until I did all my research and
267
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.160
the stories are pretty shocking.
268
00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:56.359
They must be. Do you believe the history of Hanford
269
00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:01.559
is more frightening than any any you know, fiction writer
270
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.200
could could invent?
271
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:05.759
Uh?
272
00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.000
Well, I put it this way.
273
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:09.880
You know, when you grow up there, you don't really
274
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:13.160
it's such an interesting dichotomy because it's a beautiful town.
275
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.880
It's on the beautiful Columbia River. It's kind of it
276
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.400
could be like an idealic place to grow up. And
277
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:24.319
you don't really hear about the the the illnesses and
278
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.559
the toxicity and the danger of of the of Hanford
279
00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:30.839
while you're living there, and so something that they don't
280
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.720
really talk about with when you live there. But I
281
00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:35.720
think now that I am able to step back and
282
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:37.839
do all this research and write about it, I'd say, yeah.
283
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:39.359
I think it's an incredibly.
284
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.319
Unusual setting for horror because the real history that's there
285
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.920
is already strange enough stranger than the fiction that I
286
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.440
could write. And you know, with the with the with
287
00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.359
the site being so central to the Manhattan Project, and
288
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.400
and and the decades of nuclear weapons production and the
289
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.440
cleanup and now this, you know, the things that I've
290
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.079
been covering about whistleblowers and and you know, these experiments
291
00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:02.759
with animals and.
292
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.319
Radiation, and yeah, it's it's a really scary story.
293
00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.400
And it's even scary now for the people who are
294
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.559
working out there and cleaning that that stuff up and
295
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.920
still getting sick. So it's it continues to evolve and
296
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.519
create more, you know, distressing stories.
297
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.240
How did the secrecy surrounding Handford affect their workers, their
298
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.640
families and the surrounding communities toom.
299
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.119
Well, I mean, you know, I can't speak for everybody,
300
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.519
but I just know from my own life and my
301
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.880
own family and my own research and the people. You know,
302
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.480
it's it's a like I said, it's a in one side,
303
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:39.440
it's a good place to live, and they pay well
304
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:41.960
and you can raise the family there and have Like
305
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.599
I said, I grew up there and my relatives and
306
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.119
best friends all still live there. So it's a it's
307
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.839
a beautiful place. But and and it's the cost of
308
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.759
living is good and you can really have a good life.
309
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:54.680
But on the flip side, you just have to know that,
310
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.400
you know, a few miles away is all this radiated
311
00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:59.240
you know, sludge in the ground.
312
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:03.039
And so I think that there's a mix.
313
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.200
I think the people there probably don't love talking about
314
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:07.920
the danger as much. I think now it's more out
315
00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:09.880
in the open now you see New York Times sites
316
00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.880
and a documentary came out about it last year that
317
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:17.160
is now available. It's called Richland sixty minutes. Has been
318
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.799
there a few times, but it's just you don't. It's
319
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:20.359
amazing to.
320
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.559
Me that you don't hear anything about Hanford.
321
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.559
I mean, it hasn't made its way into pop culture,
322
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.400
I think until my stories now, and so when I
323
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.799
do talk about it, people think I'm making it all up.
324
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.799
And so.
325
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:35.319
Yeah, I think the people that live there.
326
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.039
To answer your question, are trying to make the most
327
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:42.680
of this beautiful place knowing that it's not that safe
328
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:44.440
and it could be dangerous.
329
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:50.200
Living and residing there where residents aware of the potential
330
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.119
danger posed by radiation and nuclear contamination.
331
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:55.599
I mean they didn't even know.
332
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:57.640
I mean, to be honest with you, in the late forties,
333
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.720
when they're building the bomb and building pretty to plutonium,
334
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.119
they didn't. They weren't even telling the public and the
335
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.160
workers what they were building it, what they were building,
336
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:06.000
what they're building it for.
337
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:07.680
So I would say no.
338
00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.119
I mean I worked out there as a high school student,
339
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.880
as like in internships and you know, they just the
340
00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:14.559
dangers were never really spoken of.
341
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.319
I think it was you know, they did it.
342
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.680
They did a release called the Green Release, like in
343
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:23.160
the early fifties, where as an experiment, a bunch of
344
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.519
you know, toxic waste was let out of the pipes
345
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:28.920
and then wind took it and carried it through the
346
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.839
farmlands of Washington and it got into grass and the
347
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.759
animals ate it and it got into the farmlands and
348
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.720
and it wasn't and people were dying, started getting dying,
349
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.000
dying and sick and being born with you know, you know,
350
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.559
birth defects and animal defects were as well.
351
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:47.279
And it really wasn't until.
352
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.559
And some some journalism found out, like in the eighties
353
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:54.960
that that had happened and that's what caused it all,
354
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:56.839
which was kind of I think, auld blow up and
355
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.240
blew up in the doors that it's really dangerous. And
356
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.440
that's when the plutonium production stopped, and that's when the
357
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.440
class action lawsuits started. So I think for several decades
358
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.720
the answer would be no. And I don't think it
359
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.160
was until they actually stopped producing the plutonium that it
360
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.759
was more public knowledge of the dangers.
361
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:20.039
It sounds like the stories surrounding three Mile Island than
362
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:28.200
the radioactive illnesses excuse me, illnesses that that have been
363
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:31.319
documented and once again, once again by a journalism.
364
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.839
I mean the lawsuit, the Downwinders class action suit.
365
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:37.920
I mean some of the there's a settlement and it
366
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.359
just got settled, by the way, in the two thousands,
367
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.960
so it's not that old. But you know, there's three
368
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.799
to four thousand members of that class action suit. You know,
369
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:51.200
a leegend some sort of you know, cancer or sickness.
370
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.680
Related to the radiation. So it's it's it was, it's
371
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.519
pretty severe. Now now you hear it to this day.
372
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:02.079
Are the current workers out there being exposed during the
373
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:05.240
cleanup and that's where have all these hundreds of whistleblowers
374
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:08.960
kind of exposing, you know, safety concerns and safety allegations.
375
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.599
So back then it was people, I think, people getting
376
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.160
sick because of that release and the radiation. Now it's
377
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.480
people just seemed to really take care of themselves during
378
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:19.839
this cleanup process which is going on and on and on.
379
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.880
Did you speak to former workers, local residents, or even
380
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:25.960
whistleblowers while developing your stories?
381
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.319
Yes, I did, I uh, I did.
382
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.240
I have a lot of people who who who still
383
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.119
work out there and used to work out there, currently
384
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.279
live there. You know, luckily, I'm from there in my
385
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.559
circle of family and friends are from there, so it
386
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.039
wasn't hard to find people to talk to. I didn't,
387
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:49.519
you know, do an undercover you know, like a reporting steeing.
388
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:51.839
But I did talk to many, many people, and I
389
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.720
did a lot of research, and there's, luckily, there's a
390
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.240
lot of research to find. I mean, you just sit
391
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.519
in front of a computer and started googling the Hamper history,
392
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.240
you know, and the books that have been written about it.
393
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.039
It's not it's not that hard to get the research.
394
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:07.039
You know, How do you responsibly combine real tragedies and
395
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.559
historical events with fictional natural supernatural horror.
396
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.559
Well, I think that's the interesting thing, you know.
397
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.640
I think that so each one I've tried to you
398
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.599
to pick pick an aspect of the nuclear reactor world
399
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:23.200
and what it's like to live there, and then I like,
400
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:25.720
then the fun part is for me to kind of
401
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.119
add the supernatural twist to it. So, you know, I
402
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:33.720
covered the tragic history with the whistleblowers. I mean, I'm
403
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.920
sorry the Downwinders in the first book, Witchland, but by
404
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.400
the way when I grew up there there was a
405
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.599
woman that I was told was a witch and had
406
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.079
been radiated and cursed, and so that was that led
407
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.880
to Witchland. So it's kind of a witch story, you
408
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.680
know about witchcraft, but it's also you know, telling the
409
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.960
story of the whistles of the of the Downwinders. The
410
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.480
second books, Nicheland, I researched all the current modern day
411
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.440
whistle blowers and I based it on a real tunnel
412
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:03.920
collapse happened in like I think twenty seventeen, and so
413
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:06.039
I turned it into a ghost story and it was
414
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.119
all about the people who have actually perished out there
415
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:10.920
and might still be roaming the streets of you know, Hanford.
416
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.000
The third one, I tried to tie it to kind
417
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.000
of small town drug epidemics and they had a big
418
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:18.519
fentanyl bust in the tri cities in Richland, and I
419
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.519
turned that into a vampire story. And so now with
420
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.880
this one, I did all the research on the animal
421
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.599
testing and all the stories of the animals that were
422
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.640
you know, there are thousands of animals at a time
423
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:33.440
kept there with testing, and I turned this into kind
424
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.440
of revenge of the animal story where some of that
425
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.839
tainted blood from back in the day has made its
426
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:43.640
way into modern hospitals and is creating a new breed
427
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.559
of warewolves.
428
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.160
So you know, I try to have fun with it.
429
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:49.359
So I tried to tell a funny story and with
430
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.039
a little education about what went on.
431
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.960
But then I turned I put my own Mulligan supernatural
432
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.519
twist on it.
433
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.079
All you need is a character like the Mothman and
434
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:58.720
away you go.
435
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.039
Yeah, exactly.
436
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:08.960
Whichlane brings together radiation, paranoia, ancient forces and supernatural activity?
437
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.240
How do you balance those different elements? Because you know
438
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:15.839
you're you're a juggler, and I don't mean that in
439
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.440
a negative way. I love the way that you've You've
440
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:24.200
brought everything together. And it's just a great concept about
441
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:28.079
a well a sad story really when you realize what
442
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.039
the government has done and how these people and Hanford
443
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:36.759
may suffer now and into their into the later years.
444
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.880
So why don't we do this, Tim, Why don't we
445
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:40.640
just take our break now at the bottom of the hour,
446
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.319
and we'll be back and when we continue more of
447
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:47.119
this fascinating story. And our guest ex O Nation is
448
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:52.680
Tim Mulligan. His website www. Dot mulliganworld dot com. This
449
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.880
is the x one. I'm Rob McConnell. A place where
450
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.400
people dared to believe and dared to be heard Monday
451
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.759
through Friday from ten pm until midnight right here on
452
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:05.079
the Exone Broadcast Network, the Cancom Broadcast Network, and of
453
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.960
course our good friends at your hometown radio Classic twelve
454
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:12.359
twenty c FAJA M and they stream us around the
455
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.400
world on Classic twelve twenty dot CA. Tim Ulligan and
456
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:21.200
I will return discussing these stories. And this is truly
457
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:28.559
a place where fact and fiction meet. Sounds, spooky, sounds, real,
458
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.519
sounds like something that I should hear on CNN. Tim mulligan,
459
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:35.079
don't go away.
460
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:36.440
Thank you.
461
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.880
My phone became my window to door.
462
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:44.480
Put your then on.
463
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:53.400
Every voice of the soul, every story.
464
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:58.920
I'm left a little light.
465
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:52.039
In the shadows of the fun in the ridings on stone,
466
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:58.119
voices from forgotten the world, Stones be through the unknown.
467
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:04.400
Sherris Cross the heads fire, dancing in the sky, where
468
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:10.039
the gods of ancient history just visitors and spi from
469
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.319
Miss Ecclesby to Atlantis, Lost secrets.
470
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Very deep the true that way, it's sanctuaries.
471
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:23.279
For those who dare see they are among the stars.
472
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.359
Ancien voice comp.
473
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:31.279
Explanation. Tim Mulligan is our guest. His website is Mulliganworld
474
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:33.920
dot com. And just a reminder, all the music that
475
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.119
you hear here on the X Zone is performed by
476
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.559
Ram and all our music is available at www dot
477
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:50.359
ram music dot ca. A tim is is the supernatural
478
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.000
in which land meant to be taken literally? Or can
479
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.559
it also represent trauma, guilt and buried community secrets?
480
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:04.880
It's a mix, I think that, you know.
481
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.839
I like I said, I like to focus on a
482
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.480
different aspect of the site and then based it on
483
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.799
a real thing, like, for instance, in Ditchland.
484
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.160
The reason it's called Ditchland is that I in my.
485
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.759
Research I found there's this crazy story it's true of
486
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:25.400
how back in two thousand and seven, the workers up
487
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.039
there out there found a buried railroad tanker car in
488
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.720
a ditch, in a trench there, and inside of that
489
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:37.119
tanker car were forty tons of animal carcasses, mostly dogs
490
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.519
that had been tested on and they're supposed to have
491
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.559
been buried and then burned, and they were not burned.
492
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:46.480
So they found these these full carcasses in plastic and
493
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.720
it just made me I just couldn't believe it. So
494
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.640
then you research it and then go back to the nineties,
495
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.880
and you had different nuclear sites around the country. We're
496
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.519
doing experiments on beagles because of the DNA of a beagle,
497
00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.960
which is a you know, being a dog lover myself,
498
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.319
it was a sad thing to read about, but you know,
499
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.400
you can't hide the history. So what happened was all
500
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.200
these nuclear sites were sending the carcasses to Hanford, and
501
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.880
Hamford had had kind of opened their doors to say
502
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.039
send them to us, and they buried them there in
503
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:14.519
the ground.
504
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.279
So that right there was where ditch Land came out of.
505
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:19.839
And I thought, well, what if I go back to
506
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.720
that ditch where those were found, and then where the
507
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.359
supernatural element could come in is let me have some
508
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.240
animals get some some revenge.
509
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.799
And so that's where I kind of said, well, let's
510
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:31.079
make this a wearwell story.
511
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.640
And so the werewolves, you know's it's kids in town
512
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.759
and they start they they become infected, and they start
513
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:39.440
congregating at this ditch at night and trying to take
514
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:42.640
revenge on folks out at Hanford who had kind of
515
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:44.119
done the testing at the laboratory.
516
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.319
So to answer your question, I do a little bit
517
00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:49.359
of mix. I like to kind of tell a Twin
518
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:50.000
Peaks like.
519
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:53.640
Story of a weird, quirky American town mix in you know,
520
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.680
the real life nuclear history and the stories that come
521
00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:59.640
with it, and then throw in my own horror in
522
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:03.559
Mom's event. So it's a little bit of everything. So
523
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.799
it's a true story, a true arc every one of
524
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.720
the every one of the books I've written about is
525
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.960
based on a true moment in time or a true
526
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:13.039
aspect of the nuclear industry or Hanford. And then I
527
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.319
take it from there and I kind of turned it
528
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.839
into a fun and funny, I hope, and scary story
529
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.559
about this group, this family who moves there and deal
530
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.279
with all of these are confronted with all of these
531
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.720
history and then current day ramifications of the history.
532
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.480
I must tell you, I'm an animal lover as well.
533
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:39.519
And you were discussing that tanker with all those carcasses,
534
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:45.480
might you know it's it's disgusting And did anybody pay
535
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.119
any consequence for what happened to those animals?
536
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.359
I mean it was all sanctioned, you know, back in
537
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.839
you know, back in the day, like in the in
538
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.839
the early in the late forties when Hanford was you know, newer.
539
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.519
They would keep up to a thousand animals there at
540
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:04.160
a time in an animal farm, and it was a
541
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.480
mix of everything morodents to cats and dogs, to a
542
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:12.480
lot of farm animals like cows, sheep, goats, pigs. There's
543
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:14.799
even stories of alligators. In fact, this is one of
544
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.039
some one of my favorite aspects of this research was
545
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:22.920
this stories that hit the news that some radioactive alligators
546
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:25.440
escaped and made their way into the Columbia River.
547
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.640
And there's this lore there at Hanford that fishermen in.
548
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:35.640
Richland for years would see these like glowing radioactive alligators
549
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.319
in the Columbia River, which is, by the way, a
550
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:39.480
river that I grew up swimming in a waterskiing on.
551
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.960
So I mean it is it is back to the
552
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.039
original point.
553
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:46.960
It is sad, and it is a startling you know,
554
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.599
never talked about story, you know, I think with Richland
555
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:56.240
that all this was happening, and especially with beagles and dogs.
556
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.000
I mean, I'm embarrassed to say it, but I when
557
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.599
I grew up there in high school and we would
558
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:02.960
sometimes we would go out to this building that we
559
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.079
that everyone in town called the Puppy Mill, and that's
560
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:06.960
where high school.
561
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:08.119
Kids would go drink beers behind.
562
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.199
So I think it just it just became part of
563
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:11.760
your life and you didn't really know what it was,
564
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.199
what was really going on, but you just learned to
565
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:15.039
live with it. You know.
566
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.239
How did the people of Henford and the surrounding areas
567
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.960
feel about what is what what happened to the animals
568
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:28.920
and how they were used as guinea pigs. That's just
569
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:32.519
an atrocity that just irks me because one of the
570
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.320
contract jobs I did was the director of communications for
571
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:41.119
the SBCA, and I'm truly one of the biggest animal
572
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:44.079
lovers going and to hear this story, even though it
573
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:50.599
happened so many years ago, it's just wrong. And Tom,
574
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.000
do you think that we've learned from those experiences?
575
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.480
I hope so. I mean I know that they stopped it.
576
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.159
I mean, they really scaled it down in the seventies
577
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.559
and so, and they moved it to a smaller lab
578
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:03.440
which is still there. I was actually went and visited
579
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.719
it from the outside, not not a tour, but I
580
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.760
when saw it the summer, So I hope.
581
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:08.840
So.
582
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:12.800
I don't know I can speak for them, but in Ditchland,
583
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.039
I kind of made my own story about reconciling with
584
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:18.599
the past and this kind of revenge story of people
585
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:20.519
who worked at the lab and who were really upset
586
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.400
by all of this, and how it's kind of spilled
587
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.639
over into their kids and the legacy to current day.
588
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.760
So I don't know. I would hope though. I think
589
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.119
the fact that they don't do it anymore obviously is
590
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:32.159
a good is a good move.
591
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:34.519
But if we can't hide the fact that you know
592
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.280
it happened, Tom, I'm going to ask you to take
593
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.679
off your author hadn't put on your lawyer hat here?
594
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.440
And yeah, okay. I do think that community sometimes protect
595
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.360
dangerous secrets instead of confronting the truth.
596
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:54.480
Uh yeah, I mean this is a multi billion dollar industry.
597
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:55.199
I mean I think that.
598
00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:59.960
I mean, there are secrets that I'm sure don't they
599
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.159
I don't want people talking about. I think most many
600
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:04.880
government sites are like that. But I think in the
601
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:09.199
nuclear industry, especially where there's there's already a giant, mega
602
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.480
lawsuit at Hanford, and there's been many, many, many other lawsuits.
603
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.400
There's law firms now that are just in Washington State
604
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.760
that are just one hundred percent dedicated to representing Hamford
605
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.480
workers and whistleblowers. So it's an industry, and so I
606
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:25.840
think that, you know, they have to be careful what
607
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:28.159
they say. It's probably a lot of NDAs that are
608
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.519
signed out there. And I think one thing I do
609
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.599
appreciate though, is that the history doesn't seem to be
610
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:37.519
as swept away now if you just go to the
611
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.920
Hanford website, even though they're very open about the history,
612
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.159
you can now take tours where they're open about the history.
613
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.360
That's I think that's a newer movement than I was
614
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:49.760
experienced growing up there. So I think now, especially maybe
615
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.559
with the way the internet is and you can find
616
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:55.199
out this stuff pretty easily, I think that they're more
617
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:56.239
open about the history.
618
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:58.239
But yeah, there's things that I'm sure.
619
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.639
That they would prefer or don't don't come up because
620
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:04.760
there's legal, you know, ramifications.
621
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.159
So sure, as as a trained lawyer, did you find
622
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:12.480
that your experience as a trained lawyer came in handy
623
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:15.440
during the investigations or the research that you did for
624
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:15.960
your books.
625
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.880
Yeah, I think being a you know, having my legal background,
626
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.239
and I went to law school in Washington and I
627
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.159
practiced law for a few years and then I've been
628
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:31.880
in you know, I've been working in human Resources for decades.
629
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:33.920
Now, but but I always have that lawyer had on.
630
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.199
So yeah, anytime I do research or read these stories,
631
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:41.880
my mind always goes to the legality, the morality, the
632
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.679
ethics of it, the you know, the impact of it,
633
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.920
the ramifications of it.
634
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.280
Who's liable for what, what's the risk? I mean, I'm
635
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:51.159
always thinking that way.
636
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:55.320
Unfortunately, which Land began began as a stage play. What
637
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:59.039
challenges did you face bringing this supernatural story to a
638
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.639
live theater Art means.
639
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:05.039
Yeah, well, my goal was to.
640
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.440
Create a fun night out for adults that they could
641
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:12.599
go to the theater and and just be kind of
642
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:17.119
giddy with terror and kind of laugh in in shocks.
643
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:20.079
So it's it's hard. It's I think that's why you
644
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:22.159
don't see a lot of scary plays right now. They're
645
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:23.880
kind of having a moment and you're seeing more and
646
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.320
more scary plays. And that's why I think my current
647
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:29.800
plays are starting are doing pretty well. But you know,
648
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:32.519
it's it's hard to uh to do It's hard to
649
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:34.360
the supernatural elements tough.
650
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.519
You know, the Witchland had to do with witches, and I.
651
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.159
Had various in you know, in in Carnations of Witches,
652
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:43.119
in the theater and you have to think about how
653
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:45.960
you're gonna do that. You know you're gonna because it's
654
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.280
not a haunted house like yet you walk through and
655
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.199
you see scary things. You sit in the seat in
656
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.960
a theater and watch this show, So how do you
657
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:57.159
make it somewhat immersive? How do you really uh make
658
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.199
the people nervously scared? You know, it's easy to do
659
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.440
a jump scare and you know, have something to jump
660
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:03.360
out and everyone screams.
661
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.840
That's fun.
662
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.079
But how do you sustain that for a whole play
663
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:11.880
where you're really invested in the story, but yet covering
664
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:13.719
your eyes in fright the whole time?
665
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:15.360
And so it's not easy.
666
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.559
I've written I've done three scary plays now and each
667
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:19.840
one I've learned what you can and can't do. And
668
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.679
it kind of depends on, you know, the budget you have,
669
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.320
and yeah, the appetite, the appetite for.
670
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.840
Really scaring people or just making it be more you know,
671
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.880
kind of horror light.
672
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.760
You know, so you have to kind of, I think,
673
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.119
know your audience, doing your capability, know your theater, and
674
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:36.639
decide how far you want to take it.
675
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:38.800
I've got about a minute before I have to go
676
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.920
to my next break, Tim, and I was wondering if
677
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:44.440
you could tell me what it was like the first
678
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.639
time that you saw your play on stage.
679
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:48.960
Oh, it was amazing.
680
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.039
I mean I never thought I would even write a play,
681
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:52.480
So when I wrote my play, it was a little
682
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:55.159
I was just trying to get it finished. So the
683
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.400
fact that I pitched it to some theaters just for fun,
684
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:01.360
and seven months later or six months later, it was
685
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:04.159
getting a full month long production in San Diego, I
686
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.119
was blown away. And so the first time I saw live,
687
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.440
they did such an amazing job. The audience was screaming.
688
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:13.039
It was during COVID, it was right coming right out
689
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:14.599
of COVID, so people were dying to go back to
690
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:15.480
the theaters again.
691
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:17.599
And so it was super exhilarating and fun.
692
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:21.719
Congratulations on all you do and ex own Nation. Our
693
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.760
guests this hour is Tim Mulligan. His website is Mulliganworld
694
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.440
dot com and Tim and I will be back as
695
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.440
we wrap up this hour here in the x Oni
696
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:33.599
of the side of this short break, as we continue
697
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:36.480
investigating the world of the paranormal and the science of
698
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:41.239
parapsychology Monday through Friday from ten pm Eastern until midnight
699
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:46.119
right here on the Cancom Broadcast Network and your hometown
700
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.719
radio Classic twelve twenty CFAJAM. That stream is around the
701
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:54.840
world on Classic twelve twenty dot CA and don't forget all.
702
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:59.280
The music that you're listening to tonight is exclusive to
703
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.960
the XO and it's performed by Ram and let me see.
704
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:05.800
So far, we've played Still I Rise in the first segment,
705
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:10.519
second segment the story behind the music, and the last
706
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:16.159
segment we came in with ancient ancient star Ward Walkers,
707
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.239
star Ward Walker's Cool, and the final song is going
708
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.519
to be Lantern's All. This music is available at www.
709
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.159
Dot Rhymmusic dot CA. A don't go away explanation, Kim
710
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:29.000
and I return on the other side of this break,
711
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:39.760
oh not very long now, in the.
712
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:46.079
Shadows of the fields, in the writing zone, Stone voices
713
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:50.559
from forgotten world STOs through the unknown.
714
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:56.639
Sherry's across the heads, fire, dancing in the sky with
715
00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:59.599
the gods of ancient history.
716
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:00.800
Pass.
717
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:25.920
When the world grows quiet and the daylight face, we
718
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:34.960
drift through the doorway that the moonlight may beyond every memory,
719
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:38.960
beyond every fear.
720
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:41.760
Dreams, paint a.
721
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:45.480
Picture that only we can hear.
722
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:55.960
They carry our questions on the rivers of line, sailing
723
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.239
through shadows in the.
724
00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:00.360
Middle of night.
725
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.079
Who is from tomorrow?
726
00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:07.960
Who is from the past?
727
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:28.800
Feeding constellation that was never meant to less? Get Gullianus, Genie.
728
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:37.559
Gwan to go like a con silly shut by the star.
729
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:39.000
In the sky.
730
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:45.199
They teach us how, They teach us.
731
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:50.559
How free language.
732
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:56.599
Welcome back everyone, timull goodness, why guess that's our www
733
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:02.639
dot Tim. Let me see ww dot Mulliganworld dot com.
734
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:04.800
I'd just like to share a story with you that
735
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.840
Craig just informed me of. He was speaking earlier to
736
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:15.639
Ram and they were telling Craig that a person heard
737
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:20.639
their song called Beyond the Veil here on this show.
738
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.960
And what this lady wanted to know is if she
739
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:29.239
could use that when it was her time to pass on.
740
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:34.760
And when you hear a story like that where your
741
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:39.280
show has the ability to touch someone's heart, like we
742
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:43.480
touched this lady's heart and the song that was written
743
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:48.239
and you know how was performed by our friends Ram.
744
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:53.599
It's just it's just heart touching and it makes me
745
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:58.360
feel good that we touched another heart here on the show.
746
00:44:58.400 --> 00:44:59.840
And that's all we want to do each and every night,
747
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:05.039
touch one heart, make the difference in one person's heart,
748
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.960
let them know that they're not alone, that there's always
749
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.400
somebody there with you, whether from this side of the
750
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:14.559
veil or the other side, you're never alone. And to
751
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.760
know that we were able to touch this lady where
752
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:19.679
she says, well when I go, I can I play
753
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:24.320
your song the Veil at my funeral? And I know
754
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:30.360
it's macobb way to look at it, but it's not really,
755
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:33.559
it's really not. So once again, if you'd like to
756
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.920
find out all about the music that has heard here
757
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.239
on the show, visit ram at music dot Ca. And
758
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.480
thank you Craig for bringing that to my attention to
759
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:47.360
Mulligan's our guest, Like I said, Mulliganworld dot com, how
760
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.719
does an audience immediate reaction affect the experience of presenting
761
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:53.840
psychological horrors on stage time?
762
00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:57.559
Well?
763
00:45:57.599 --> 00:45:59.920
Yeah, so that's why I think that with a play,
764
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.119
if we're fortunate enough to have a couple, like you know,
765
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.960
preview nights to test the things out, because especially with
766
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.039
a scary play, you want to see what's gonna land
767
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.639
and what's gonna be too much or not enough, and
768
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:15.559
so the audience reaction is super important. I think that
769
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:19.119
my last play that went to New York, the Scary
770
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:22.440
Haunted House, played Point Loma. You know, we the ending
771
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:24.079
just kind of fell flat and we had a real
772
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:25.960
scared We thought it was a big scare moment that
773
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.119
was gonna not gonna you know, take it all home,
774
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:30.400
and and it really didn't work. So I think that
775
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.320
the audiences. So then we go back and we tweak it.
776
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:35.159
And the next night I went on opening night and
777
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.000
it was amazing and people screamed.
778
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:37.360
And had a great time.
779
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.320
So that's why you want to have some preview nights,
780
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:42.440
a couple if you can do a couple of test runs, sure.
781
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:45.239
Yeah. And even with the book, same thing. I do
782
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:45.960
some readings.
783
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.280
I let people read it in advance and kind of
784
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:51.719
see what their thoughts are, and so so we can
785
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:53.199
tweak it while we still can, you know.
786
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:56.079
Tom might I think there's such an interest in the
787
00:46:56.199 --> 00:47:01.320
paranormal and paranormal stories of the parent parent normal tourism industry.
788
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:04.360
That's that's popped up. Why.
789
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.119
I just think that there's people like to have fun,
790
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:10.119
like to be scared, especially right now if you look
791
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:12.239
at some of the the movies that are out there
792
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:14.960
that are making you know, such a buzz like obsession
793
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.280
and back rooms and some of those and you know, centers.
794
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.400
I think it's really horror is having a moment right now.
795
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:24.280
And I think there's something about like if you look
796
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.719
at the world of Witchland story in Ditchland, it's a
797
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.719
when you take something that you think is completely ordinary.
798
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.480
That's what this is what inspires me.
799
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:35.679
Like whether it be a small town in America, you know,
800
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.559
or a ditch like this was, or a nuclear facility
801
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:41.679
or just a group of kids riding their bikes or
802
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:44.159
a group of teenagers getting together and just kind of
803
00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:46.039
looking at that and asking what would happen?
804
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:50.760
Is something really absolutely horrifying. We're hiding underneath the scene
805
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:52.480
that you're watching, and that's what it really inspires me.
806
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:53.599
I think people like that.
807
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:55.760
They like to be kind of be nervous and kind
808
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.239
of watching from their eyes closed or behind their behind
809
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:01.559
their fingers and not quite knowing what's going to happen.
810
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:05.360
And I think people really have a really a great
811
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:07.239
time with that nervous energy, you know. And I think
812
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.639
that's why horror is one genre that seems to really be,
813
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:13.440
you know, growing and growing and growing sure.
814
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.519
And I've been told by a number of authors that
815
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:21.840
what they do is instead of coming out with a novel,
816
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:26.400
they'll create a fictional book because it's easier to put
817
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.199
the truth into a fictional book then is in to
818
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:30.280
a novel.
819
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:33.800
Well, yeah, especially, That's why I'm not getting That's why
820
00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.159
I'm having so much fun with the graphic novel series.
821
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:39.760
I have this amazing graphic artist, his nast Pyrink. He's
822
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:41.159
a Mexican artist.
823
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:44.199
And he can, you know, I map it all out
824
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.320
and tell him what I want, and then he.
825
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.599
Can do these beautiful artwork pictures, and the horror can
826
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:51.639
then really happen, you know, visually and immediately on the page.
827
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:54.440
And if we do, like in Ditchland, there's some pretty
828
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:00.199
pretty graphic you know, werewolf transformations and those sequences just
829
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.760
be much more visceral than would be if I was
830
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:05.440
just writing it and explaining it. So I think the
831
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.679
graphic novel just opens up a whole new world for
832
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.280
horror and show things that you know, it'd be hard
833
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:12.400
to show without, you know, the illustrations.
834
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:17.880
You know, Schnitchland. Snitchland, it examines whistleblowers and the car
835
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:21.400
and the personal cost of revealing the truth. Why was
836
00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:23.880
that story especially important for you to tell?
837
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.239
Well that you know, I for many reasons.
838
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:32.480
I in my in my career, I've worked with a
839
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.719
lot of whistleblowers and and that's always been interesting to me.
840
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:40.400
I'm always for trying to make you know, the workplace
841
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:46.239
safe and and you know, inclusive. However, when I growing up,
842
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:48.519
one thing I do remember growing up at Hanford and
843
00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:50.800
I became a young lawyer, was one of my friend's
844
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:55.079
mothers pulled me aside in another meeting in another city.
845
00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:56.559
We had to go to a park.
846
00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.920
She had sunglasses on and a scarf, and it was
847
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.320
almost like the X Files, and she was telling me
848
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:03.519
she had this folder.
849
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:06.440
Of calls and she thought her phone was being bugged, and.
850
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.320
Her husband used to work at Hanford and he knew
851
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.519
things he wasn't supposed to know, and she was being followed,
852
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.000
and I just kind of wrote it off as she
853
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:17.920
was a little off for Rocker. Now I look back
854
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:19.840
to that think, I bet she was right on, and
855
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:22.039
I bet everything she told me was really happening. And
856
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:25.199
so as I as I as I wrote Snitcheland, I
857
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:28.480
really wanted to focus on modern day Hanford and what
858
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.400
it's like for the workers out there now in this cleanup,
859
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:33.679
knowing that many people have, you know.
860
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:38.079
Succumbed to the nuclear you know, the radioactivity.
861
00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:42.000
So and I just started researching it, and there're just
862
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:45.400
hundreds of whistleblower stories at this one site that in
863
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:46.840
this town that I grew up in, that I did
864
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:49.199
not know anything about. And then I found out that
865
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:50.599
I had some friends that I went to school with
866
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.119
that were whistleblowers, and so just I had such a
867
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:54.840
connection to it that I thought it would be an
868
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:57.159
interesting story to tell, And to be honest with you,
869
00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:59.679
I really wanted to tell a ghost story, and so
870
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.920
so it opened the door to telling a ghost story
871
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:07.679
a kin kind of to the movie Ghost, where the
872
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.440
ghost comes back and kind of helps solve the mystery.
873
00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:11.639
And I really like that idea.
874
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.800
So it all kind of came together to tell the
875
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:16.400
story or the plight of the whistleblower, but also put
876
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.280
it into a fun supernatural story as well.
877
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:21.679
Why are a whistleblowers so often treated as enemies when
878
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:24.840
all they're trying to do is, you know, maybe trying
879
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:25.800
to protect the public.
880
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:29.400
Well, I think it gets back to your question earlier
881
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.559
about when you're asking about. As a lawyer, you know,
882
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:34.840
there's things that are not being said directly, and I
883
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:37.639
think that's it. I think that money comes into play,
884
00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:42.840
and a reputation comes into play, and the cost of
885
00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:47.000
doing business comes into play, and losing contracts and getting.
886
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:50.239
Bad publicity and opening the door to other lawsuits.
887
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.559
And I think there's a million reasons why some whistleblowers
888
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:57.000
stories are shot down and swept under the rug when
889
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:02.320
maybe what they're whistleblowing is super important and true, but
890
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.159
it would just open the door to a whole slew of.
891
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:09.920
Potential problems for the employer. I think that's why sometimes
892
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:12.199
they're not So many times we're just not treated well.
893
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.800
You know, last night, I was after the show and
894
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:20.440
I got back home, I watched a movie on Netflix Call.
895
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:25.400
It was all about the Boeing industry and how whistleblowers
896
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:29.159
there tried to tell Boeing that there were a lot
897
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:33.119
of problems and management wouldn't listen because it was all
898
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:36.599
about making money. It wasn't about personal safety or the
899
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:39.159
safety of those who flew in the aircraft. It was
900
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:43.400
all about money. And these and these whistleblowers, my god,
901
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:45.840
hats off to them. In fact, one took his own
902
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.960
life because of the because of the way he thought
903
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:55.559
the company would treat him, even though he has was
904
00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.440
no longer with the company treat him because of his
905
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:00.960
courage to be a whistleblower.
906
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.280
Yeah, and you take that, You take that, You take
907
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.199
that story and add into it, you know, deadly toxic
908
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:09.559
waste and radioactivity.
909
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.440
It adds it. It equates to a big mess.
910
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:19.280
It sure does. Your forthcoming Snitchland switchline, I'm sorry, involves
911
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:24.360
the unexplaining spacecraft disturbing transformations on a government conspiracy. Ooh,
912
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.360
I love it. What can you reveal about it without
913
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:28.760
spoiling the story for us?
914
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:29.639
Oh?
915
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:33.159
Gosh, I've never been in the past, even though I
916
00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:36.719
love horror, I've never really gravitated toward, you know, the
917
00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:39.599
alien and extraterrestrial world.
918
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:41.039
Even though I'd like some of the movies and stuff.
919
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:44.480
But then I just started I heard about some of
920
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:49.599
the the UFO sidings that the governments had, especially around
921
00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:52.159
nuclear reactors, and then as I researched, I realized how
922
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:55.039
many happened in my hometown and at Hanford. So it
923
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.519
was actually it was an awesome thing to research because
924
00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:00.400
you able to read I got actual government report of
925
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.119
sightings and chasing UFOs and airplanes, and and then get
926
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:10.320
the reports being read acted and being written changed in
927
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.639
the stories, and and I realized all these stories happened
928
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.840
in a short period of time at Hanford, and they've
929
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:18.400
happened even more.
930
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:19.119
So over the years.
931
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:21.760
So it was just it was eye opening, it was
932
00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:25.320
fun to study, to research, and I think it's made
933
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:27.559
for a great way to tie up this whole series.
934
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.119
And so it's called Switchland and involves the switching of
935
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.719
places with from some alien forms to some of the
936
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:38.840
residents of Richland back in the late forties when Hamford started.
937
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.880
And so it's a fun twist on actual government reports
938
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:43.920
that I'm recreating.
939
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:44.360
In my book.
940
00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:47.039
And that comes out next year, right.
941
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.760
Yeah, that's it's written, that artwork's being done that I'm
942
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:53.760
so Ditchland. The Wearwell Story is going to come out
943
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:56.800
on September fifteenth. It just went available for pre sale
944
00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.480
on Amazon this week. And then the fifth and final
945
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.320
ties everything together. It's called Switchland. That'll come out early
946
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:04.360
twenty twenty seven.
947
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:07.199
Tim Mulligan, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
948
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:08.920
All was a great pleasure talking to you, Tim. I
949
00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.639
wish you much more success and I look forward to
950
00:55:11.719 --> 00:55:13.039
the next time you join us here in the X
951
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.639
Zone to talk about your latest book that involves UFOs
952
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:20.480
government conspiracies and all the weird and wonderful things that
953
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:23.079
we talk about here Monday through Friday from ten pmmes
954
00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:26.519
from until midday. Take care of yourself, Tim, Thank you,
955
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:27.239
it's been a pleasure.
956
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:27.800
Thank you so much.
957
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:30.559
It's my great pleasure, my friend and explanation. I'll be
958
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:32.159
back on the other side of this break as we
959
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:34.320
continue here in the X Zone with yours truly. Rob
960
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:39.280
McConnell from our broadcast station and studios at the Cancom
961
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:42.679
Broadcast Network and on your hometown radio, Classic twelve twenty
962
00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:45.880
c FAJAM, and they stream us at Classic twelve twenty
963
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:48.920
dot CA. Don't go away, Les,