Rob McConnell Interviews - DR. JAMES KROLL - Investigating the PSI Phenomenon

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The X Zone radio and TV show is largely an
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opinion talk show. All opinions, comments, or statements of fact
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expressed by Rob McConnell's guests are strictly their own and
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are not to be construed as those of the X
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Zone radio and TV show or in any manner endorsed
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by Rob McConnell, Relmar McConnell Media Company, Talk Star Radio Network,
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its affiliated stations, or employees.
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Welcome to the X Zone.
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A place where fact is fiction and fiction is reality. Now,
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here's your host, Rob McConnell.
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The night in my bed, hear the clock tick and
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think of you.
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Caught up in circles, confusion is nothing new. I can't
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hear what you've said Then.
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You said.
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And welcome back to the X-Zone, everyone. My name is
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Rob McConnell, coming to you from our studios in beautiful, sunny,
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and warm Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, on this 31st day of
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the month. My guest this hour is Dr. James Kroll.
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He is an electrical engineer by profession. He earned his
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PhD degree from SUNY, and that's a sunny brook back
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in 1997. and has gone on to work on the development, design,
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and management of various telecommunication projects with a number of
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highly visible telecom equipment providers.
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Dr.
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Kroll has also had a lifelong interest in dreaming, stemming
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from a number of unusual dreams, experiences, and intense nightmares
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that he had as a child. He had his first
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off-the-cuff lucid dream back in 1998. He found it to
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be a fascinating experience and read upon the subject in
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an attempt to induce these experiences more readily, reliably. Now,
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early attempts met only with modest success. However, in 2006, Dr.
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Kroll rekindled his interest in lucid dreaming. By now, technology
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had improved and numerous websites had popped up dedicated to
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the art of lucid dreaming. With all this additional information
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and options, he found it fairly easy to learn to
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lucid dream on demand. He has now experienced over 800
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lucid dreams, and that's just in the last four years.
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Joining me now is Dr. James Kroll. James, welcome to
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the X-Zone.
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Thank you very much, and thank you for having me.
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It's my great pleasure. James, can you describe for our
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listeners what a lucid dream is?
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Sure. You know, we all have typical non-lucid dreams every night,
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whether or not we remember them or not. Unless you've
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got some kind of biochemical irregularity, you're dreaming in roughly
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90-minute cycles. The early cycles, you're only dreaming you're in
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REM or stage 5 sleep for a short period of time.
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As the cycles progress, you spend more and more time
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in REM. There are a lot of people who believe
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that you need to wake up out of REM in
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order to recall your dreams, which does explain why some
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people have a better recall than others. And in this state,
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of course, and this will be meaningful to all of
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your listeners, you know, we find ourselves where we think
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the situation is real. We find ourselves in pleasurable situations,
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frightening situations, and it all seems very real at the time. But,
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of course, we wake up and we say, oh, I
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was just dreaming. But again, it's very real. It's very
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tangible at the time. The difference between a non-lucid dream
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and a lucid dream is fundamentally in a lucid dream,
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you identify something that's unusual, your logical processing will manifest
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itself in some way, and you actually realize that you're
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embedded in a dream. And I like to talk in
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analogies sometimes. It's kind of like the holodeck on the
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Starship Enterprise. You're embedded in a world that's a projection
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of your mind, as opposed to a projection of light
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and holograms. In this state, things feel quite real, and
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so on and so forth. So, I mean, that sort
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of describes the concept, if you will.
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All right, James, you and I have to take a
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two-minute commercial break. When we come back, more of Dr.
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James Kroll. We're going to be talking about lucid dreaming
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and much more this hour on The X-Zone. If you'd
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like to give us a call, toll-free worldwide, 1-800-610-7035. My
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email address is exon at exonradiotv.com. On MSN Messenger, exonradiotv
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at hotmail.com. And our website, www.exonradiotv.com. And if you'd like
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to get your copy of the March 2010 edition of
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the X Chronicles newspaper, send me an email, exon at exonradiotv.com.
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And we'll be glad to send you our link on Scribd.
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You'll be able to read the entire 44 pages online
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and see exactly what has got me so ticked off
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about the UFO community. I'll be back on the other
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side of this two-minute break as the Exxon continues from
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our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada on the Talkstar Radio
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Network and Exxon Broadcast Network.
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Don't go away.
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Then you say you go through I fall.
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Behind you.
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The second hand unwinds If you're lost.
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You cannot keep your will.
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Hey lady, you lady Cursing at your life You're a
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discontented mother And a regimented wife I've no doubt you
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dream about the things you never do. But I wish
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someone had to talk to me like I want to
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talk to you.
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Ooh, I've been.
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To Georgia and California and anywhere I could run.
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Took the hand.
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Of a preacher man and we met.
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And welcome back, XO Nation.
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Dr.
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James Kroll is our special guest this hour. His website
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is www.mortalmist.com. That's www.mortalmist.com. James, when we're lucid dreaming, how
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does the logical side of our consciousness adapt to this
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world of fantasy?
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Excellent question. Let me actually spin around back to the
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non-lucid dream state. In a non-lucid dream state, I would argue,
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and a lot of people would argue, that essentially your
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logic and reasoning is turned off, which is to say
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you might be on a street, a 10-foot chicken walks by,
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you say, oh boy, that's a big chicken, but you
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don't identify it as impossible, right? There's plenty of evidence
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that the fact that your logic and reasoning is turned
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off has to do with the fact that your left
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cortex is not functioning at a high level. which is
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typically responsible for mathematical analysis, logic processing, things of that nature.
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When you look at neurotransmitters that affect left cortex, you're
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looking at acetylcholine, you're looking at dopamine, things of that nature.
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These neurotransmitters seem to be on a relatively lower supply
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during non-lucid dreams. And there seems to be a correlation
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between high levels of these neurotransmitters and an ability to
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become lucid or even have high cognitive recovery during a
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lucid dream. Which is to say, sometimes you might identify
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the fact that you're dreaming, but your cognitive recovery has
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not been fully manifested again. You might not recall the
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goals that you had, things of that nature. You're still
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somewhat caught into this fantasy thing. as opposed to a
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state where you've really fully recovered your cognitive ability, you
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remember some goals that you might have, you're interacting with
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this dream world, not as a fantasy, but as an
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objectionable or an objective state that you're trying to extract
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information from.
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Why do people dream?
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Oh boy, there's about 9,000 theories on that one. I
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do not consider myself an expert on the concept of
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why people dream. Certainly it seems that it's required for
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normal psychological balance. I think that's very well understood. What
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dreams are are anybody's guess. If you look at Eastern culture,
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they believe it's generated or sort of dictated by karmic
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threads that you pick up during the day and they
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sort of manifest at night as sort of dream fantasies.
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It's anybody's guess. I don't consider myself an expert there.
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All right, Howard won. let me direct the question directly
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to you. How do you induce a lucid dream?
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Sure. You know, there's, and as you said in the introduction,
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there really is a heck of a lot of information
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out there and technology out there that's quite interesting. You know,
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when you talk about researchers who have really made a mark,
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you're talking about Stephen LaBerge, you're talking about Tom Ushack,
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Scott Stride, a number of people who have really made
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a lot of progress with regard to understanding the dreaming
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mind and the biochemistry thereof. You know, the long and
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short of it really is that it really boils down
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to biochemistry in the brain. And Mike talked about logical
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processing seems to be turned off in the brain. Well,
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how do you induce better logical processing when you're dreaming?
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The most common method, or the pharmaceutical method, if you will,
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is to buy a cell phone. And, you know, typically
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you could do that naturally by doing what's called wake
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back to bed. That's nothing more than sleeping five or
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six hours, getting most of your delta wave non-REM sleep,
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both with and staying up for about an hour. You'll
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actually develop a balance of neurotransmitters in the brain more
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consistent with being awake. If you do manage to fall
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back asleep, the balance in your brain is closer to
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a wakeful state than it is a sleeping state, and
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the neurotransmitter balance is favorable to inducing lucid dream, if
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that makes sense. There's other technologies like dream masks that
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are essentially masks that you wear at night, that have
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motion detectors on your eyes, a trusted detector if your
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eyes are moving consistent with REM, it flashes lights. The
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concept is that the light and or sound might penetrate
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the dream. It's going to manifest in the dream in
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some sense, and you need to train yourself to see
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that in a dream. The problem with those devices, frankly,
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is some people can't sleep with them. They're too bulbous
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or too cumbersome. Sometimes the lights and sound wake the
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dreamer up, which is, of course, counterintuitive. There's a lot
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of discussion about brainwave entrainment methods. Personally, and we can
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talk about this a little bit later, there are a
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number of brainwave entrainment methods. I've discovered a method that
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I held a U.S. patent application on that involves the
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use of cranial electrostimulation to induce a brain state favorable
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to lucid dreaming. So, you know, the direct question, circling
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back to the original one, is most often I'm using
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basically supplements that buy acetylcholine, like choline, galantamine, huperzine, nicotine,
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things of that nature, and or I'm combining that with
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cranial electro-stimulation, which is sort of my homegrown method, if
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you will, of inducing lucids.
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So can we say then, James, that lucid dreaming is
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controlled dreaming?
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Oh, absolutely. Well, you know, and again, it goes back
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to the whole issue of cognitive recovery. You know, in
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a non-lucid dream, you're in no control. In a low-level
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lucid dream, you're in some control. You realize it's a dream,
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but you still might be a victim of the things
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that are going on in the dream, so to speak.
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In a high-level lucid dream, you are in control. And,
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you know, you're projecting, and I think we'll get to
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this momentarily, you're projecting physical realities into that dream space.
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But all those realities can be tweaked or twisted or
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broken if your level of consciousness is high.
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Does lucid dreaming, I mean induced lucid dreaming, have any
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danger to the person who is taking this dream psychologically
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or physically?
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Outstanding question. Let me address the second one first. Physically...
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I've done the most daring, insane, dangerous things in lucid
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dreams at times that I've never been hurt. So, you know,
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we're all familiar with the fact, with the non-lucid dream
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where you're falling, you hit the ground, you wake up
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before dying. Of course, you can't really, it's difficult for
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us to perceive what dying even feels like, what it
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even means, right? So to answer your second question, no,
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there's no physical danger whatsoever. Psychologically, I suppose you could
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come up with arguments that might somehow lose touch with
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what reality is. I mean, hopefully we're all mature enough
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and all sufficiently astute explorers to identify the state special.
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It's got special rules, special laws, if you will, and
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they don't apply to what I would call our real world.
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Because if Mother Nature intended us to zap ourselves into
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a lucid dream state at will, wouldn't she have built
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us into the system that we have?
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Well, you know, there's one argument, and you raise an
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interesting point. There's one argument that says, as a process
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of evolution, we've lost our ability to become lucid on dreams.
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And so what do I mean by that? What I
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really mean is, as a survival mechanism, it doesn't make sense,
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you could argue, for people to be lucid in a
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dream state. Because if you were used to the laws
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and realities in a dream state, they wouldn't necessarily help
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you in real life, if you see my point. Which
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is to say, if you're used to jumping off buildings
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and flying and walking through walls in your dream space, well,
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these are not attributes or experiences that you want to
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put into your real world, really.
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So why would somebody want to invoke lucid dreaming?
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Sure. You know, the practical applications are extremely wide, and
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it's a very individual experience. It's to me to judge
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what people should do. It's not for you to judge.
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It's a very individual experience. Certainly there's plenty of evidence
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that you can practice physical tasks in a lucid dream. Dr.
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LaBerge in his classic book, Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming,
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talks about playing tennis in lucid dreams and actually practicing
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a tennis game, improving the real performance But there's another
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example that I thought to throw on the table here
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because it would be, I think, of interest to you
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and your readers. It's relatively easy to eliminate current nightmares
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in a lucid dream. And let me give you a
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fantastic example that I think your listeners will kind of
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relate to, if you will. Ever since I was a child,
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I had dreams about meeting up with aliens. And, you know,
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now this is not my suggestion that I abducted anything
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like that. More likely, I saw some kind of TV show,
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some kind of movie that scared the crap out of me, right?
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It generated what's called a negative karmic thread, and that
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negative karmic thread runs in your brain during the course
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of your life. Now, if you happen to see a
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show about aliens, you have a discussion about aliens, that
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negative karmic thread comes to sort of bubble up, and
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when you dream at night, you might have a dream,
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a lucid dream about aliens. Mm-hmm. And I, for many,
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many decades, in fact, I had such dreams. If you
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go back to type-ed and dream yoga, what they talk
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about is basically becoming lucid and eliminating negative karmic threats.
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So what I mean specifically is once a negative karmic
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threat generates, if you will, a dream about confronting an alien,
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it's extinguished. It's gone. It's done. But the question is,
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how do you deal with the confrontation with an alien
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in your dreams? If you deal with it negatively, which
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is to say you become frightened, you become scared, you
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re-manifest negative karmic threat again, which sits in your brain.
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If you basically address the confrontation with the alien in
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this example with compassion, understanding, and understanding of it's a
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projection of your mind, it can't hurt you, the negative
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karmic threat is effectively extinguished, and it will never crop
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up again. So I was able to actually do this
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a couple of years ago, the Recurrent Dreams About Aliens stops,
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and it's an outstanding example of how you can use
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lucid dreaming to nullify a recurrent sort of nightmare. There's
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all kinds of discussions about addressing phobias and lucid dreams
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and things of that nature.
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Is it possible that lucid dreaming is responsible for the
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majority of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens?
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You know, I've heard all sorts of theories. And, you know,
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it's interesting. It's interesting. I wouldn't blame it on lucid
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dreaming because, in principle, in a lucid dream state, your
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logic is high and your understanding of the situation is high.
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It's hard to say.
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All right, Doctor, stand by. You and I have to
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take a commercial break with the news at the bottom
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of the hour. Ex-owned nation, our special guest this hour
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is Dr. James Kroll. His website is www.mortalmist.com. That's www.m-o-r-t-a-l-m-i-s-t.com.
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And we'll be back on the other side of this
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news break as the X-Zone continues from our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada,
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on the Talk Star Radio Network and the X-Zone Broadcast Network.
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Don't go away.
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I've been to Georgia and California and Anywhere.
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I could run.
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Took the hand of a preacher man and we made
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love in the sun. But I ran out of places
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and friendly faces because.
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Hi, this is Eric Rawls of Cosmoverse.com and you're listening
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to Rob McConnell in the X-Zone.
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Hi, this is Blade Runner, and you are listening to
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Canada's number one paranormal radio show, The X-Zone, with Rob McConnell.
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Hi, I'm Laura Sabrin of Feast of Fields Organics, Inc.
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In Jordan, and you're listening to Canada's number one paranormal
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radio show, The X-Zone, with Rob McConnell.
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Hi, my name is Lady Ashley, the White Witch of Niagara-on-the-Lake,
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and you're listening to Canada's number one paranormal talk radio show,
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The X-Zone. With Rob McConnell.
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Welcome to the X-Zone, a place where fact is fiction
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and fiction is reality. Now, here's your host, Rob McConnell.
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It seems like yesterday, but it was long ago.
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Jane, it was lovely.
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She was a queen of my nights.
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There in the darkness with the radio playing low end.
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And the secrets that we shared.
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The mountains that we moved. Caught like a wildfire out
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of control. Till there was nothing left to.
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And welcome back.
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Dr. James Kroll is our special guest. His website is www.mortalmist.com.
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Dr. Kroll is a subject matter expert on the use
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of supplements to modify neurotransmitter levels in the brain to
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induce brain states that are conductive to lucid dreaming. He
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holds a recent patent application on the use of cranial
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electrostimulation to induce lucid dreaming. Dr. Kroll also has a
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lifetime interest in PSI phenomenon. He is now coupling his
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interest in lucid dreaming and PSI phenomenon to investigate the
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use of this unusual altered state of consciousness Thank you
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very much. What is meant by the term PSI phenomenon?
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Over a fantastic question although i i'm i'm sure europe
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listeners quite stupid in that regard you know what we're
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talking about precognition which is the ability to get a
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sense of stuff for having of course we're talking about
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telepathy which is connection between two myans uh... you know
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you your your father in arizona uh... has that were
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virtually and you get a sense of it that type
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of thing we're talking about clairvoyance uh... sometimes called remote
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viewing physical substance in this reality.
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Can you give me some scientific examples that proves, doctor,
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the existence of PSI in some reasonable sense?
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Sure. You know, and this is a fantastic question. You know,
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probably the premier researcher in this regard is Dr. Radin,
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who was with the Institute of Noetic Science in California,
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if I recall. He He has a very interesting skin
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conductance test that, you know, if you really look at
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that data, I think, you know, proves to a very
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high degree that precognitive abilities exist. It's a very simple experiment, actually.
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He's got sensors on the hands. He's measuring skin conductance,
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and he has a test subject looking at a computer monitor.
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And randomly, he's flashing a different image on the computer screen.
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Some are very innocuous images, like a garden, an outdoor scene,
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innocuous images. Some are more intensely emotional images, violent images,
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sexual images, things of that nature. Now, no great surprise,
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skin conductance changes with regard to the intensity of the image.
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What was profound in that experiment is that the skin
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conductance changes before the image is shown. And it changes
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consistently about two seconds beforehand, which is a very clear
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example of precognition, where the mind is anticipating something as
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a physical reaction to it. Now, nonbelievers are always going
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to come up with some kind of other explanation of this.
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But in terms of examples, I know that are really profound,
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really scientific, if you will, but that's kind of my
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favorite example.
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Why does it seem like the dreaming mind can often
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pick up on PSI information, sir?
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You know, I've read all kinds of theories. You know, certainly,
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I mean, let's start with human experience. I certainly have
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retognitive dreams. I don't believe I'm special. I think a
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lot of people have had these. The question becomes, why
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is the dreaming mind special? And there's all kinds of
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models about what consciousness is. And let's really boil it
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down to that very question. There's a lot of speculation
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that consciousness does not reside in the brain. There's sort
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of speculation or hypothesis that the brain is a filter
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toward consciousness and that the brain filters our awareness in
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a sense consistent with evolution where we're engaged in the moment,
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We're only viewing and concerned with what's around us. And
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from a pure evolutionary perspective, that makes sense. But if
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you look at this brain as a filter model and
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you speculate or you extend it to people who are savants,
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people who have had head injuries, things of that nature,
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there's plenty of documentation of savants who are inclined towards
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psi phenomenons. There's plenty of evidence and literature about people
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who have had head injuries and acquired two-site phenomenon.
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Things of that nature.
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It behooves us to ask the question, you know, has
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the brain, you know, been injured or is at risk
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of being, saying the incorrect word, not operating correctly such
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that these people can tune into something that the average
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person can't. But when we talk about psi phenomena, the
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people who seem to be able to tune into it
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are usually able to quiet their mind, usually able to concentrate,
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be usually able to get a sense, if you will,
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of something and not distracted by the noise that's around us,
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if that makes sense.
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Has anyone explored lucid dreaming to investigate psi besides yourself?
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You know, to the very best of my knowledge, no.
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And I will tell you why it doesn't make sense.
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Lucid dreaming is a relatively hard state to achieve, at
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least historically it's been. Psi phenomenon has been a relatively
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challenging research field to explore. So what have you combined
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it to? You're shooting yourself in the foot, if you will.
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To the first point, lucid dreaming has become very achievable.
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If you are intent on learning lucid dreaming and you're
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open-minded and you are practical about trying one technique at
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a time, practical about trying some supplements to bias nor
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transmit a lot of things of that nature, and you
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give yourself some time, you can learn lucid dreaming. My
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concern at this point is a lot of the experts
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in psych phenomenon probably don't know how easy it's become
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with the advances in technology. So, you know, again, what's
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interesting to me, coming full circle a little bit, if
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you believe that the dreaming mind is attuned to side
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phenomenon because certain filters are disabled, if you will, then,
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you know, even in a lucid dream, you're still talking
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about filters that are disabled, even though you're consciously controlling
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the dream to some extent. Some of what's happening in
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that dream is not under your control. Conversations with dream
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characters are not under your control. They're going to answer questions.
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or you can have experiences that are driven by the
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karmic thread driving the dream. And it's an interesting coupling
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of a state conducive to lucid dreaming to investigate psi,
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which I think is just fascinating.
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Now, I understand that you're working on an experiment, a
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dream PSI experiment, and I was wondering if you could
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share it with our listeners.
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Sure. Sure. So let me get to the high level here.
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And I open the state that I'm trying to convince
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no one but myself. I walked into this saying, hey,
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this is an interesting problem. I've got some interesting attributes
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to my lucid dreaming. Let me try to construct something.
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I'll go to that second point first. In my lucid
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dreaming experiences, I seem to have a gift, if you will,
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to start a lucid dream where I began in real life.
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So what do I mean by that? Typically, I'll go
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downstairs at about 3, 4, 4 o'clock in the morning.
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I'll try to induce a lucid dream. I'll go on
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the couch. I'm not disturbing my wife or anybody else.
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And typically, when I find myself lucid dreaming, I find
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myself on the couch in my TV room. But of course,
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it's a projection of my mind. It's a dream that
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started where I left off in real life. And now
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the interesting thing about that transition is is if I
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could start off in a lucid dream where I left
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the real life, well, that opens up the possibilities to
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leaving out different objects or things of that nature in
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the real world that I might retrieve in my dream space,
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if that makes sense. So, basically, I came up with
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the notion of using the concept of zenith cards, which
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are very well-known inside phenomena. It's different symbols. And I've
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gone through different iterations of this experiment. I've done it
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about 50 times. I'm sort of tuning my ability to
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influence the dream and the experiment and optimize it, if
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you will. But essentially, I drill down to a specific
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experiment where I'm moving three Zener cards. So I've got
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a star, a cross, and three parallel squiggly lines. So
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I take those cards, I randomize them, I put them
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face down on the kitchen counter before going back to sleep.
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I have no idea. They're all from the back of
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the card. They all look identical. There's nothing that gives
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away which card is which. I go to my couch
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and try to induce a lucid dream. or specifically try
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to induce a lucid dream where I find myself dreaming
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where I left off in reality. If I can, in fact,
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induce that state, I'll walk over to the cards, I'll
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randomly pick a card, and I'll try to blank out
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my perception of which card it is. Now, that's an
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important point, because if I pick up a card and
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00:30:43.970 --> 00:30:45.880
I think it's going to be a star, well, it's
473
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.400
pretty well known in lucid dreaming that you can influence
474
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:50.859
the visuals of what you're seeing in a dream. So
475
00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:52.039
if you think it's going to be a star, it's
476
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:54.569
probably going to be a star. If you could blank
477
00:30:54.630 --> 00:30:56.630
out your mind and flip the card and see what
478
00:30:56.650 --> 00:30:59.869
it is, well, you've got a chance to basically extract
479
00:31:00.569 --> 00:31:04.009
psi information, if you will. Now, interestingly, this is not
480
00:31:04.069 --> 00:31:07.390
pre-cognition because you've already laid out the cards. The physical
481
00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.079
process of laying out those cards has happened. I'm trying
482
00:31:10.099 --> 00:31:12.680
to use my dream space to perceive what those cards
483
00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.420
would be. Sometimes if I'm flipping a card, I would
484
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:17.960
see a very distinguished shape like a star or a
485
00:31:18.019 --> 00:31:21.460
cross or whatever, and sometimes it's something that's morphed in
486
00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:25.640
some sense. I sort of record that information mentally. I
487
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:27.940
go about my business. When I wake up, I say
488
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:29.910
to myself, well, that was an interesting shape or an
489
00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:34.930
interesting image. Which image does it seem to be? Squiggly lines, cross,
490
00:31:34.970 --> 00:31:38.690
or star? And effectively, I'll make a decision. I'll walk
491
00:31:38.750 --> 00:31:40.509
over to the card and question it, and I'll flip it.
492
00:31:40.710 --> 00:31:44.519
And I've got a hit or a miss. It's very simple.
493
00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:49.089
It's an incarnation of this particular experiment. In the last
494
00:31:49.089 --> 00:31:51.950
27 tries, I've had 18 hits. Now, you would expect
495
00:31:52.029 --> 00:31:58.519
about nine hits, randomly speaking. And 18 hits sounds interesting, but,
496
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:01.019
you know, it sounds like, oh, maybe he got lucky.
497
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.660
You know, when you actually model this as Bernoulli trials,
498
00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:07.059
which is precisely what it is, and you'll come up
499
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.900
with a number of combinations of 18 things, 27 at
500
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.809
a time, it's 400,000 and change. Any particular sequence has
501
00:32:13.829 --> 00:32:16.269
a probability of about 1 in 10 times 10 to
502
00:32:16.309 --> 00:32:19.839
the minus 11, blah, blah, blah. But the upshot is
503
00:32:20.259 --> 00:32:23.000
the probability of getting 18 hits out of 27 tries
504
00:32:23.180 --> 00:32:25.920
is about 3 in 10,000. That's right. The probability of
505
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.200
getting 18 or more hits out of 27 is about
506
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.960
4 in 10,000. Now, this kind of drives us to
507
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:35.920
the classic situation where, okay, is he making stuff up?
508
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.240
Did he get lucky? Or is there something interesting going on?
509
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.910
And it's the problem that all side researchers, you know,
510
00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:46.569
mentally kind of confront. uh... and and it's more of
511
00:32:46.609 --> 00:32:49.490
interpretation uh... as i said some of my colleagues on
512
00:32:49.589 --> 00:32:52.119
on moral moves or i can guarantee i'm not making
513
00:32:52.130 --> 00:32:55.099
something up i mean what would be the motive i'm
514
00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:58.579
secondarily they don't seem to be any scientific floors and
515
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:02.519
and third the notion of having you know uh... uh...
516
00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:05.710
sequence of events has a probably apple forty ten thousand
517
00:33:05.829 --> 00:33:09.589
is interesting uh... i'm not saying i've proven anything but
518
00:33:09.609 --> 00:33:13.509
i'm saying it's interesting And it's a very unique model
519
00:33:13.549 --> 00:33:16.450
where maybe we could leverage information from the dream space
520
00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:21.150
to identify things that are happening in what we identify
521
00:33:21.210 --> 00:33:24.599
as our real world, if you're following that long-winded story.
522
00:33:25.220 --> 00:33:29.400
What do your colleagues say about the experimentation that you're
523
00:33:29.420 --> 00:33:30.680
doing with lucid dreaming?
524
00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:37.180
You know, it's very interesting. You know, you go back
525
00:33:37.220 --> 00:33:39.599
to Radin's work, or you go back to the work
526
00:33:39.700 --> 00:33:43.500
of Diane Hennessey Powell, who wrote a recent book, ESP Enigma,
527
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.880
that really focused a lot on the dreaming mind and ESP.
528
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:50.640
You know, you've got people in both camps. You're always
529
00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:54.990
going to have the very scientific type who demand scientific proof.
530
00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:58.170
And going full circle, boy, I haven't been videotaping myself.
531
00:33:58.630 --> 00:34:01.480
It wasn't part of the motivation. The motivation here is
532
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:05.309
to prove to myself that it's possible to speculate from
533
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.769
sort of a quantum physics perspective, if you will, or
534
00:34:07.789 --> 00:34:12.809
a theoretical physics perspective, if you will, what model justifies
535
00:34:12.829 --> 00:34:16.550
what's happening in the first place. And maybe tweaking experiments
536
00:34:16.590 --> 00:34:20.050
and iterating between experiments and theory to sort of hone
537
00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:22.969
in on something that might be interesting, if that makes sense.
538
00:34:23.590 --> 00:34:26.710
you're always going to have people who insist on strong
539
00:34:26.750 --> 00:34:29.639
mathematical or scientific proof. You're always going to have people
540
00:34:29.780 --> 00:34:35.019
who are, you know, believers in the paranormal and things
541
00:34:35.059 --> 00:34:38.480
of that nature. You know, and the interesting point I
542
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:40.659
would throw on the table is, you know, when we
543
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:42.550
talk about some of these mysteries, when we talk about
544
00:34:42.570 --> 00:34:46.469
psi phenomena, what was interesting to me is, or my
545
00:34:46.510 --> 00:34:52.889
hypothesis is, it's not all about psi phenomenon, religion, shamanism.
546
00:34:52.989 --> 00:34:57.869
It's not all about quantum physics and Newtonian physics. The
547
00:34:57.929 --> 00:35:01.380
truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. And I think
548
00:35:01.389 --> 00:35:04.619
there are very special states of consciousness that give us
549
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.960
insight into these phenomena. And that's really what I'm trying
550
00:35:08.019 --> 00:35:09.880
to hone in on, if you will.
551
00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:12.960
You know, speaking about quantum physics, when I come back
552
00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:15.719
from this commercial break that we have to take, Doctor,
553
00:35:15.820 --> 00:35:18.360
this is our final break for this hour. Here's the
554
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.840
question I'd like to leave you with, and maybe you
555
00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:23.739
can answer us when we come back. What's the connection
556
00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:27.980
between PSI and quantum physics? I'll be back on the
557
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:30.260
other side of this commercial break with Dr. James Kroll
558
00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:34.449
as the Exxon continues from our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
559
00:35:35.110 --> 00:35:37.869
If you'd like to get more information on Dr. Kroll,
560
00:35:37.929 --> 00:35:53.130
his website is www.mortalmist.com. That's M-O-R-T-A-L-M-I-S-T.com. That's www.mortalmist.com. And don't forget,
561
00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:55.769
if you'd like to get a copy of the March
562
00:35:55.769 --> 00:35:59.389
2010 edition of the X Chronicles newspaper, in which I
563
00:36:00.510 --> 00:36:04.800
do a rant on my concern for the reality, the
564
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:07.980
reality we have thinking of the UFO community, send me
565
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.519
an email, exon at exonradiotv.com. I'll send you a link
566
00:36:11.539 --> 00:36:14.219
where you can read it on Scribd, along with 31
567
00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:17.659
other editions of the X Chronicles. My name's Rob McConnell.
568
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:19.860
This is The Ex-Owned Doctor. Noel and I return on
569
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:21.900
the other side of this break as we continue from
570
00:36:21.940 --> 00:36:24.960
our studios in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, on the Talkstar Radio
571
00:36:25.000 --> 00:37:12.159
Network and the Ex-Owned Broadcast Network. Don't go away. James
572
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:18.260
Kroll is our special guest. His website is www.mortalmist.com. And James,
573
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:21.190
what is the connection between psi and quantum physics?
574
00:37:23.269 --> 00:37:26.710
Again, it's a speculative one. You know, there's a lot
575
00:37:26.750 --> 00:37:29.030
of theories as to what a caps for psi phenomenon.
576
00:37:29.329 --> 00:37:32.090
I think the evidence for psi is overwhelming if you
577
00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:36.190
really look at the statistical basis and experiments and so forth.
578
00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:40.949
There's a lot of speculation. Certainly the one that jives
579
00:37:40.969 --> 00:37:43.679
with me the best is the motion of a multiverse.
580
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:46.940
It's pretty clear when you dig into quantum physics that
581
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:50.840
there is this connection between consciousness and matter. There are
582
00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:56.159
those who speculate that human consciousness basically forks off different universes.
583
00:37:56.420 --> 00:37:59.420
I know that sounds like a rather profound concept. It's
584
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:05.460
not my own. Many excellent quantum physicists believe the same thing. Interestingly,
585
00:38:05.739 --> 00:38:08.909
if you believe the notion that consciousness forks off multiverses
586
00:38:09.269 --> 00:38:11.789
or copies of the universe that you're a part of
587
00:38:11.929 --> 00:38:13.869
and you're supposed to be one of them, if you will,
588
00:38:14.710 --> 00:38:17.849
it's interesting because the way I've actually modeled this DreamSci
589
00:38:17.889 --> 00:38:20.460
experiment is to say, Well, what if you left out
590
00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:23.159
those cards at a particular point in time, some sequence
591
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:25.860
of events forked off a different universe? What if the
592
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.789
dreaming mind is a projection into that universe? You'd be
593
00:38:29.809 --> 00:38:33.630
extracting information from that space without turning over the cards
594
00:38:33.670 --> 00:38:36.349
in your real world. It's sort of beyond the scope
595
00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:38.150
of what we could talk about on the radio. There's
596
00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:41.190
a number of sketches and conjectures I have on the
597
00:38:41.289 --> 00:38:43.449
website that kind of speak to that hypothesis.
598
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.960
What about mortalmist.com? What can our listeners find out about that?
599
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:55.030
You know, Mortal Mist was started up about two years ago.
600
00:38:55.050 --> 00:38:57.929
There's plenty of other loop streaming sites on the Internet,
601
00:38:58.090 --> 00:39:00.989
sites that boast 10,000, 20,000 members. Mortal Mist is a
602
00:39:00.989 --> 00:39:04.170
very small, very intimate site. Right now we have about
603
00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:06.130
400 members or so. It's been up and running for
604
00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:08.349
about two years. I would call it more of a mature.
605
00:39:08.369 --> 00:39:13.320
It's very comprehensive, you know, very– easy to sort of
606
00:39:13.780 --> 00:39:16.679
acclimate yourself and get some help from some more experienced
607
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:20.300
lucid dreamers. The thing I would offer to your listeners
608
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.809
is that I'm sort of heading up what we call
609
00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:26.210
the Research Guild, where we're proposing a number of scientific
610
00:39:26.250 --> 00:39:31.170
experiments that leverage lucid dreaming for the purpose of science.
611
00:39:32.070 --> 00:39:34.860
So I've got a call for participation for people to
612
00:39:34.889 --> 00:39:38.679
try the cranial electrostimulation technology for lucid dreaming induction. I
613
00:39:38.739 --> 00:39:40.639
need a lot more data and a lot more human
614
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:43.199
experience in that regard to understand how effective it is.
615
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:48.369
We've got some experiments with regard to psi phenomena I've
616
00:39:48.389 --> 00:39:50.849
got some conjectures of my own, and again, these are
617
00:39:50.889 --> 00:39:53.489
not my own conjectures, but there are sort of people
618
00:39:53.530 --> 00:39:58.110
who believe that dreamers or astral voyagers are connected to
619
00:39:58.150 --> 00:40:02.949
ghosts in some sense. Again, I don't think it's radically far-fetched,
620
00:40:02.969 --> 00:40:06.210
but the question becomes, if in fact ghosts or astral
621
00:40:06.269 --> 00:40:10.570
voyagers or lucid dreamers, how do you detect them? And again,
622
00:40:10.630 --> 00:40:13.389
if you can basically induce a lucid dream where you
623
00:40:13.409 --> 00:40:16.460
start in real life, if you will, whether in the
624
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:20.030
notion of detecting an electromagnetic field, the notion of detecting
625
00:40:20.250 --> 00:40:24.449
negative or positive ions in relation to the astral projector
626
00:40:24.530 --> 00:40:27.329
or the lucid dreamer interacting with the real world, it
627
00:40:27.389 --> 00:40:31.639
becomes implementable. It's a provocative question and one that was
628
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.239
sort of just a lot to dig into.
629
00:40:34.570 --> 00:40:36.250
Dr. Kroll, I want to thank you so much for
630
00:40:36.289 --> 00:40:38.730
joining us tonight. It's been a great pleasure talking to
631
00:40:38.769 --> 00:40:42.829
you and getting a better insight into what lucid dreaming is.
632
00:40:42.989 --> 00:40:45.269
I wish you much success, and if there's anything we
633
00:40:45.289 --> 00:40:47.869
can do to help you with your experimentation or if
634
00:40:47.909 --> 00:40:49.929
you need to get a message out there, please let
635
00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:51.690
us know. We'll be glad to have you back on
636
00:40:51.710 --> 00:40:52.369
at any time.
637
00:40:53.780 --> 00:40:55.530
My pleasure, Robin. Thank you very much for having me.
638
00:40:56.010 --> 00:40:56.679
Good night, Doctor.
639
00:40:56.739 --> 00:41:03.179
Dr. James Kroll, XO Nation, www.mortalmist.com. I'll be back on
640
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:05.099
the other side of this commercial break with the news
641
00:41:05.300 --> 00:41:08.599
as the Exxon continues live and around the world from
642
00:41:08.659 --> 00:41:12.710
our studios in beautiful, sunny and warm Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
643
00:41:12.730 --> 00:41:13.210
Don't go away.