Book Marketing for Authors: Avoiding Scams & What Actually Works with Rob Bignell

WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.840
And you put in a year or two years.
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.160
Sometimes people put in five years writing their novel and just getting it right.
00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.480
And then they wonder why they only sold three copies.
00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.240
So you're emotionally vulnerable.
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.519
And writers are perfect, a perfect target for that.
00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:14.400
We really are.
00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:17.839
Way better than a lot of people that they've tried to scam in the past.
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.440
Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast.
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:30.079
I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formerly repressed creative soul, turn fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:37.840
At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories.
00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:46.640
The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it.
00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:58.159
This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully.
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:06.640
Join me bi-weekly for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers.
00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:10.159
Writing a novel is an inside job we do not do alone.
00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:11.840
Welcome to Write It Scared.
00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:13.040
I'm glad you're here.
00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:14.480
Let's dive in.
00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:17.840
Hi, writer.
00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:19.840
Welcome back to the Write It Scared Podcast.
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:20.959
I'm your host, Stacy.
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:29.359
And this is where we talk about the brave and the vulnerable act of writing our novels so that we can do it with more clarity, more confidence, and a whole lot less isolation.
00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:43.359
Today I'm joined by author and editor Rob Bignell to talk about book marketing, specifically how newer authors can protect themselves from the growing number of book marketing scams that we see targeting writers today.
00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:50.959
We talk about some of the most common scams showing up in your emails and on social media, the red flags to watch for, and what you can do to protect yourself.
00:01:51.200 --> 00:02:01.519
But then we also get into the more practical side of marketing, where to start as a new author, choosing strategies that actually fit you and your books, and building your platform a little at a time.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:09.039
I'll introduce you to Rob properly in just a moment, but first it's time for this week's Courage File, which comes from a writer named Carrie.
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:11.120
And I'm going to paraphrase a little bit here.
00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:21.919
Carrie says that she started writing several months ago, kind of on a whim, after seeing a Facebook post from a friend of hers who had written and self-published their first novel.
00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.520
Carrie used to write when she was younger as a kid and in her early 20s.
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:38.159
But now at 59, she found herself feeling the absence of that writing and not having written in multiple decades.
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.840
So she started to write.
00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:46.960
And she says, I had four or five chapters done, joined a writing group at my library, and was feeling excited.
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:49.199
I was finally going to write a novel.
00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:55.039
About two months into this writing journey, imposter syndrome kicked in, and I thought, who am I to write a book?
00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:56.159
I'm too old.
00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:57.360
It's too late.
00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:58.560
So I stopped.
00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.120
I missed one writing group and then another.
00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:02.479
And then I pouted.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:08.080
But Carrie says she was listening to this podcast and a few others.
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:15.039
And there were episodes that made her realize that she shouldn't stop writing because of her age or her lack of skill.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:26.879
So Carrie says, I started back up and have been writing, maybe not every day, but at least three times a week and have an end goal in place to finish a novel within the year.
00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:28.719
So please keep going with the podcast.
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:34.319
I love the stories from the authors and about their journeys and how it isn't easy for any one of us to do this.
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:39.919
We're all feeling the same way fear, doubt, anxiety, but at least I know I'm not alone in the journey.
00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:41.039
Absolutely, Carrie.
00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:42.400
Thank you for sharing this with us.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.840
And you're 100% right.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.919
Uh, no writer is immune to feeling the fear, the doubt, the anxiety.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.560
And the important thing is we do what you did, right?
00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.120
We make a decision about what we want.
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:58.000
And then after we make a decision, we take action, which is exactly what you did.
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.879
So thank you for being a lovely demonstration for us.
00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:07.280
So, listener, if you have a writing win or a moment of writing courage that you want to share, I don't care how small it is.
00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:08.719
I want to hear about it.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:18.560
Submit your story to the Courage Files using the link in the show notes, and you'll be entered to win into our quarterly drawing for a free 10-page editorial assessment and 30-minute book coaching session with me.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.680
Okay, now let me introduce you to our guest.
00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:28.720
Rob Bignell is a longtime professional editor who owns and runs inventing reality editing services.
00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:34.800
Rob has helped more than 400 novelists and nonfiction authors obtain their publishing dreams at a reasonable price.
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:55.360
He's the author of more than 80 books, including the Storytelling 101 Quick Read Series, The Seven Minutes a Day Writing Guidebooks, The Nonfiction, Best Sights to See, Hikes with Tikes, Hitting the Trail, and Heading to the Cabin Book Series, The Literary Novel Windmill, Four Children's Books, and M.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:06.000
Since 2011, eight of his hiking books have topped the Amazon bestseller list, and several of his short stories in the literary and science fiction genres have also been published.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:21.439
Rob holds a master's degree in English and a bachelor's in journalism and has taught college-level writing courses and is an award-winning publications editor and writer, having worked in the Los Angeles metro area, San Diego, as well as Palm Springs.
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:22.319
Hi, Rob.
00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.040
Thank you so much for coming onto the Write It's Scared podcast.
00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:34.480
I'm excited to have you and talk about your new book, Protecting Yourself Against Book Marketing Scams, that I think you published just a couple months ago, right?
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:35.040
Right.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.000
In July.
00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.720
Yeah, I read it and it is very helpful.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:51.439
It's concise and it definitely belongs in the pocket of any new author out there because book marketing scams, which we'll talk about today, are so prevalent, especially in our AI-infused world.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.600
And they're just going to increase in frequency.
00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.480
I hate to say that, but that's a sad reality.
00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:57.199
Yeah.
00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:02.560
But before we dive into that, why don't you just start off by telling us how you came to be in the industry?
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:12.639
Because you're you're not only an editor, but you're also a writer of fiction and nonfiction and many books on different writing craft topics.
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.000
So yeah, take it away.
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:14.480
Let me know.
00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:15.439
How did you get here?
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:16.399
Sure, sure.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:24.240
I spent most of my years, even before college, deciding I was going to be a journalist and an English major, which is kind of two different tracks.
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:30.639
One writing for newspapers and magazines, the other writing fiction, nonfiction, and so on.
00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:36.000
Ultimately, the newspaper industry drying up in the mid-2000s.
00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.079
And then, of course, when the Great Recession hit, it totally collapsed.
00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:45.439
So I then had to think about what I was going to do for a living, right?
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:53.920
And at first, I initially started by just trying to freelance myself out as an editor of the companies because I was living in the Los Angeles area.
00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:55.600
And it was lucrative to do.
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:07.600
You could get a lot of contracts, but it turned out that you'd work for somebody for five, six weeks, finish their project, and then you'd spend them months chasing other jobs until one landed, and then you'd work there six weeks.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.519
And you were just constantly going through the cycle.
00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:15.519
And I'm like, all the money I saved during the six weeks I worked, I'm spending on the four weeks that I'm searching for jobs.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:22.879
And so I started kind of reaching out on the internet to social media and so on, the advertising editing services.
00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:29.600
And I got a couple of people then who contacted me and said, I have a manuscript I wrote, fiction, a couple of nonfiction ones.
00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:31.920
Would you mind editing those on the side?
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:32.959
And so I did.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.480
And then I asked them who they were going to send it to for agents and so on.
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:38.560
And they said, I'm just going to self-publish.
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.480
Self-publishing at that time was still a vanity press thing.
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:45.600
But there were companies like Lulu.com that had just come out.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:55.600
And then, of course, Amazon, through its Create Space and eventually through Kindle, Direct Publishing started opening up the self-publishing market for everybody.
00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:58.319
I just made a hard decision to switch.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:07.279
I'm just going to work for people, indie authors, who are trying to get their book published, mainly through Amazon on Kindle and Create Space at the time.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:18.399
Then that led me to also writing my books because that freed me up to instead of writing for other people, what my editor wanted me to write or my publisher wanted me to write, I could write what I wanted to write.
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.680
So I started doing that, mainly hiking and guidebooks.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:37.519
As far as the writing guidebooks that I wrote go, as I worked with a lot of clients over the years, about two or three years into this, maybe in the mid-2010s, I started finding that indie authors had the same questions over and over again about things like how do I show and rather than tell?
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:39.360
How do I do active voice?
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.120
And how do I plot out my book?
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.759
And how can I make my characters so they're not vanilla?
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.639
And I started writing the same answers over and over again.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:53.200
So eventually I just kept them as stock answers that I could give and kind of revise a little to fit that specific India author's need.
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:59.679
And ultimately I had so many stock answers I realized I could just kind of put these all into a book, if you will, or several books.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.200
I quickly discovered.
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:09.759
So I just began assembling all of these into articles that I posted online for authors to read for free, and then ultimately put them into books.
00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:11.600
But I also wanted to write fiction as well.
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:17.200
So during this time, I've written a couple of novels, a couple of children's books, a book of poetry.
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:24.240
And right now I'm working on, I'll tell you at the end what I'm working on next because that's from our what are you doing next questions always comes at the end of the poetry.
00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:25.039
It does write.
00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:25.600
It does.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.240
Anyway, so that's how I I've come here to this point.
00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:34.320
I've worked with well over 1,200 to 1,300 authors during the last 15 to 20 years.
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:35.279
I love that.
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:36.559
I love that for you.
00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:42.720
Let's talk about the newest book that you have out Protecting Yourself Against Book Marketing Scams.
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:44.879
Tell me what drove you to write that.
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:45.600
Sure.
00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.240
About a year and a half ago, I began noticing something really spooky happening.
00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:56.879
And that was I was starting to get a lot of emails from people who wanted to do marketing for my book.
00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:58.960
And or any of my books.
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:06.320
I just get random emails about a random book that I wrote, even though it maybe had been out for 10 years already or 15 years.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.039
And then sometimes it was the newest one that came out.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.600
But I began to notice that all of these emails had a lot of similarities with one another.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.919
And that there was something strange about the email.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:19.120
It just didn't make sense.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:28.000
I knew the industry, I knew how publishing works, but the way that they were describing that they were going to do marketing for my book, I knew it wouldn't work.
00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.000
It didn't make sense what they were doing.
00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.679
It sounded good, but I knew better.
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:39.360
And so I began researching just online, reading up on are other people getting these emails and so on.
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:46.000
And came across some really good, reputable websites like Writers Beware, which is out of the UK, the Authors Guild.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.399
And then there's some really good authors out there who've also encountered some of these problems.
00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:55.120
And that got me really curious because as I read these articles, I'm like, this is really bizarre.
00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:56.559
What's going on out there?
00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:57.200
And so on.
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:03.519
They're scammers are deliberately aiming at authors, and they're using AI to do it.
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.399
And a lot of authors are getting scammed by this.
00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:13.919
In some cases, it was only maybe$30 or$40 before the author realized something's wrong here and I need to get out of this.
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:22.639
Sometimes it was as much as two, three hundred dollars to format a book, for example, and then it was never formatted, never returned to them.
00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:36.799
Sometimes it was$500 for a 30-second to 60-second video, but it was all AI produced and really didn't say anything about the book that anybody couldn't find on Amazon just by reading the blur.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.639
And in some cases, it was extremely large amounts.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.559
I know of one guy who lost, I know you're gonna not believe me, but it's true.
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:46.799
He lost over$200,000.
00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:58.399
He was an elderly man, and they convinced him that he needed to buy all of these copyright licenses to get his book sold in European countries.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:03.840
You can imagine there's 35, 40 European countries and$1,000 a pop.
00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:08.000
It's$40,000 that he spent on licensing for copyrights.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:14.080
You don't need to buy a license for a copyright in any European country, not even the United States.
00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:34.080
So it's incredible the amount of money that people were willing to spend to chase this dream and then getting just scammed by crooks out there who really know what they're doing because it's the same crooks who were doing the Nigerian print scam way back when the internet started and the email started back in the 1990s.
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.799
They've just evolved and gotten better at it.
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:40.080
Found a new target, evolved and found a new target.
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:40.480
Right.
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:47.039
So eventually I wrote the book and and said I've got enough research material here that I really feel people need to be informed about this.
00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:48.080
Oh, absolutely.
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.200
What's going on?
00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:57.120
I opened my my email and I have pretty strong filters, so it'll send so almost nothing gets through the cracks, really.
00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.840
But if I go to my spam, oh yeah.
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:01.039
Oh my gosh.
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:02.879
It's just it's overwhelming.
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:08.320
And sometimes I do look there because every once in a while something legit is there.
00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:13.440
For example, I'll have somebody reach out and want to be a guest on the podcast, and my spam filter picked it up.
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:21.919
So I peruse through there every once in a while, but I'm just floored at the amount of scammy stuff that is in there.
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.200
So absolutely.
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:35.679
And so that's that was one of the first questions I wanted to ask you about is considering there's we'll talk about the different types of marketing scams that are that are out there, but who's vulnerable and why?
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.600
Sure, in your opinion.
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:38.080
Yeah.
00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:47.279
The most vulnerable people are those who are unfamiliar with the publishing industry, and that's usually indie authors, and it's usually indie authors who are starting out.
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:55.440
And so as an indie author, you usually go and publish your book, you kind of stumble through it and figure out how to do it.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:00.720
And sometimes it turns out really well, and you get it going, your book up for sale, and then nobody buys it.
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:02.000
And you're wondering what's going on?
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.240
How come nobody's buying my great book?
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.360
And and you probably did write a really good book, too.
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.120
And so you start researching and you're like, oh, my cover is not so good.
00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:18.480
So you redesign your cover and then read an article about somebody says you should get a TikTok video and get your book to go viral on TikTok.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:20.240
And then you're like, How do I do that?
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:30.960
When a scammer comes along and emails you and says, Hey, I can do a TikTok video for you, or hey, I could rebrand your book for you and put a new cover on it that will is guaranteed to sell it.
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:32.799
You tend to fall for these things.
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:39.679
And because you're maybe new, probably are new, you don't really realize what the pricing is on it.
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.960
And so you think to yourself, that's a good deal, isn't it?
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.639
50 bucks for a TikTok video or to get on TikTok.
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.279
And so you go ahead and do it and you spend your$50.
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.440
And then either the video never shows up or you get one, but it's horrible.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:15:01.600
It's made by AI is clearly inferior to what you were expecting to get and what you should get if you're gonna go viral on TikTok.
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:03.519
And then that's how you get the scam.
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:10.559
The other people who are really targeted are those who've inherited copyrights from people.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:18.799
So because these people have no experience writing, but they think the book they inherited should probably should sell better.
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:30.399
So, for example, if my grandfather wrote a book about his experiences in World War II, and then he passes away, and I inherit his copyright, and let's suppose I'm uh an RN at the local hospital.
00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:36.720
I know a lot about healthcare, but I know nothing about the author industry and the writing industry and the publishing industries.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:42.000
And so I get this email saying that they can help me get this book to sell more.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.559
And I'm like, my grandfather wrote a great book, and that's what we need to do is market it.
00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.159
And I don't know why grandpa didn't do it.
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:53.440
He was elderly, he didn't really understand the internet and the computer systems and all that kind of stuff works.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:16:01.360
So that's why I didn't sell, and now I'm gonna make my grandfather's book sell, and it's gonna be a great way to memory remember him.
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.240
But because I'm an RN at the hospital and I don't know any better, I get scammed.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:06.559
Yeah.
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.159
So those are the groups they're targeting.
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:20.639
People like you and me who who publish books or are interviewing people all the time in the publishing industry and the writing industry, we probably catch those scams right away.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:26.399
We know better and we laugh at them like sometimes there's sometimes an email slips through.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:42.480
And I really like what what your book references to with the emotional aspect of it, how they how these these scammers are taking advantage of and playing kind of Russian roulette with our emotions, so to speak, because we've invested all this time and energy, right?
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.720
And we want it to be visible and the validation.
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:51.759
So where I was going with that is like sometimes you'll get those ones that'll be like, I can get you in front of a big name publisher, right?
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:52.159
Right.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:53.120
That kind of stuff.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.440
Yeah, and you put in a year or two years.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:02.080
Sometimes people put in five years writing their novel and just getting it right, and then they wonder why they only sold three copies.
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:03.840
So you're emotionally vulnerable.
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.960
And writers are perfect, a perfect target for that.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:14.559
And I mentioned that in the book explain as well the why they target authors, and we're the perfect audience for it.
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.079
We really are way better than a lot of people that they've tried to scam in the past.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:19.759
Who is doing the scamming?
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.920
Yeah, scams come from all over the place.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.400
They can be people who are in prison and just get access to computers so they're scamming.
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:36.640
They can be people in the basement, they're their mother's basement, and they're living there, and down on their locks, they decide to scam people to make a quick little bit of money so they can get their own apartment.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:41.759
But the bulk, the the overwhelming bulk of these scams tend to come from three places.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:53.599
Most of the emails that you receive and a lot of the stuff that you see on social media, on X, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky as well now, tend to come from Nigeria.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:18:11.039
There are a lot of criminal organizations in Nigeria, and that and one of them, Black Axe, that organization, is responsible for the bulk of cybercrimes that have occurred that involve sending money back and forth between places.
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:20.400
And this group isn't just in Nigeria, they have cells that are in other African countries, Kenya, for example, South Africa, but also in Europe.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.759
Interpol and Europol has cracked down on this in Europe as well.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:39.839
But again, they're so virulent that it's difficult for any police organization to totally crack down and stop them because as soon as they stop one cell, a new one pops up somewhere else.
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.400
They do have cells in the United States as well.
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:49.599
So the bulk of the emails you're getting and social media frauds are primarily coming from this Nigerian criminal organization.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:55.119
There are other criminal organizations in Nigeria that do it as well, but the bulk of them are from Black Axe.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:03.519
If black axe were wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow somehow, the amount of emails you would get that are scammy would be incredibly noticeable.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.079
But how do they obtain our emails?
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:07.279
Sure.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.920
Yeah, it's easy to get emails.
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.839
You get them in a couple of different ways.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:25.039
First, anytime you sign up for something like a newsletter and so on, you're really playing roulette with your email address, Russian roulette, because you're giving it to somebody and then they can sell that email list.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.319
Hey, here's all the people who signed up for my newsletter.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.839
And if you're a large corporation, that's worth a lot of money to people.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.279
So you can sell that, and then the black acts will legitimately go out and buy that email list.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:38.960
Or they'll hack it and get it.
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:52.720
Now, one of the things that a lot of hackers do when they break into companies is not steal money, but steal email lists from people and that because then they can hit you individually rather than then try to take out down a big company's money.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.680
So they do that.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:01.839
The other way, especially with authors, is with AI, they can create programs that just basically scrape the web for your email address.
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:26.640
So if your email address is out there any place at all, and you they can also find that you published a book, then bingo, they've got you because this is the recommendation for making your email address, I don't know, make it say I don't know, and or spell out the at or so it can't scrape it easily.
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:27.839
Right, exactly.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:29.200
That's one approach to do.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:34.079
The other approach is to simply just get rid of your email address as much as you can and never use it.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.759
So you can do that in a couple of ways.
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:41.200
First, if you've got your own website, don't ever list your email address on it instead of a contact page.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:43.920
Most websites have a contact page, right?
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:55.200
And and then the other way you can think about that is if I have to sign up for things like newsletters and so on, what you can do is sign up through a secondary email address.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:59.440
The downside of that, of course, then is you're looking at two different emails every day and so on.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:16.720
But but probably the email address you sign up for the newsletter because it's not an author's name, but it's a made-up name, then that's not going to get scam emails because it doesn't match up with the name of an author on a book, which is for sale at Amazon, for example.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:17.839
That's good advice.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:19.519
Very smart, very smart.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:37.279
We'll get into talking about more ways to protect ourselves in in a few minutes, but let's talk about some of the most common book marketing scams that writers should be aware of right now, particularly for new and newer authors that are vulnerable.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.720
There's about 30 to 35 scams that are going on at any time, which are aimed at authors.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:48.240
Most of them are marketing oriented, but some of them as well are geared towards self publishing.
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:54.559
And so a really common one for new authors that you'll get is the pretending to be a hybrid publisher.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:22:02.319
A lot of these come out of Nigeria, out of the Nigerian sales, but they also come out of Pakistan and the Philippines as well.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:10.640
The Philippines is where a really scammy vanity press called author Solutions moved to back in the 2000s.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:17.680
And they engaged in a lot of junk marketing and a lot of, hey, we'll format your book and make covers for you.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.799
But they do it on the cheap and they pay their employees cheaply.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:30.559
And a lot of their employees figured out what the system was because they worked for them and then went independent and just started scamming people independently like that.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.759
For anybody who doesn't know, let's just back up really quick and explain what a hybrid publisher is.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.319
Sure.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:45.599
And to my understanding, it's an independent publishing company that is subsidized by the authors.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:55.599
So the authors pay to either have the publishing services like the editing and the copy editing and the cover design and maybe distribution as well.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.960
And so they that's one way that company makes money.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.119
The other way is off of the book sales.
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:02.240
So that's hybrid.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.079
Whereas traditional, the author doesn't pay anything.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:16.400
And actually, you get a payment, or in a lot of cases, not so much anymore, but in most cases, the publishing company, when they buy your book, give you a payment against your advanced sales.
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:16.960
Exactly.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:23.200
And of course, if you were just self-publishing, you're doing it all on your own, and you might contract out people to do it.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.599
So the hybrid is in-between self-publishing.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.000
Right.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:37.920
And the appeal is this one-stop shop, you get all those pieces together, which is very appealing in order to get your book into the world so that it can make money.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:39.200
Right, exactly.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.480
The downsides of, of course, is it's about true self-publishing.
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:47.519
So you're really dependent upon this independent this hybrid publisher to stay in business.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:54.480
And they know of a lot of horror stories of authors who that company went out of business and they have no access to their book anymore.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:02.400
And even though their book is still up on Amazon selling copies, they never see the money and they don't know how to get it back at all.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:09.359
So you're gambling, at least with the traditional big five publishers, they probably aren't going to go out of business.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:10.960
Yeah, and small presses as well.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.880
There's a lot of really good, legitimate small presses out there, too, who work.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.920
But at least with self-publishing, as long as you've got the passwords to get into your account, you're gonna make all your money and so on.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:36.640
So yeah, so what they do is what scammers do that is they pretend to be these hybrid publishers, and they'll even set up fake websites, or what they'll do is use email addresses that sort of look like the hybrid publishers.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.599
So let's suppose we had a company called Stacy Publishing that was a hybrid publisher, right?
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:54.240
And so probably what would happen if is if you emailed as the CEO of your company, hybrid publisher, Stacy, is your email address would say Stacy at Stacy Publishing, Inc., right?com.
00:24:54.799 --> 00:25:06.400
So along comes scammer from Kenya who's working for Black Axe, and he goes, I think I can take advantage of Stacy Publishing because people think she's legitimate.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:07.680
She is, obviously.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.079
And so they'll go to her website, look it up, and everything we'll check out is okay.
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:22.079
So they'll change the email address to be something like Claire Stacypublishing Gmail.com.
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:29.839
And so they've got the name of your company in the front part of their address with their name, which by the way is fake.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.400
There is no Claire, it's somebody else.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.279
And then, but it's a Gmail address, and that's always the giveaway that they're doing it.
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.200
Some scammers can spoof emails, obviously, and make it sound like it is coming, which is scary.
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:48.079
But the one thing you have to remember, and an FBI agent told me this who deals with cybercrimes.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:50.000
He says most scammers are lazy.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.079
They're just working off of numbers.
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.799
So if they can send out, quantity, not quality.
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:55.359
Right.
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:56.079
Exactly.
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:09.039
So they don't really care so much if they get it right, as long as they can trick one person out of that building they sent to you and make a little money off of them, they're doing pretty well.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:11.920
So that's the scheme you have to look for.
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:13.839
So they're not going to bother to spoop.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.599
Some do, but most don't.
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:24.240
In fact, spoofing is usually an indication that it's uh a higher form of some kind of scam or phishing strategy.
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:33.039
And those tend to come from Russia or organized crime groups in Europe, like the Netherlands, Germany, Eastern Europe, and they'll go and bother to do it.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.000
But they tend not to be hitting authors at all.
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.640
Fortunately, they haven't figured out that we're a good target.
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:40.319
So, anyways.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:47.759
And today's and today, so that was one is people posing as legitimate hybrid publishing.
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:54.160
But they also they also pretend to be literary agents, editors from actual publishing houses.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:07.039
Sometimes they pretend to be authors as well, especially big name authors, which it's strange to I just can't imagine some people, some of the big name authors like Stephen King actually writing me personally.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:08.880
It's happened, I guess, right?
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:10.559
And so there's always that.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.319
But then you also get some funny ones, which are actually from dead authors.
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.039
I've had Robert Lewis Stevenson email me.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.480
Lewis Lemoore.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:19.440
Yeah, exactly.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.200
There's my dad's one of my dad's favorites.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:21.839
Oh, really?
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.519
Yeah, so so, anyways, it happens.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:30.480
But uh another one though is creating other websites for your author websites.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:36.640
The thing with the author website is they probably use an AI program to do it.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.519
There are Sweden has some, oh, I can't think of the name of the darn company now, but in Sweden there's a company.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:42.319
Is it lovable?
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.000
Yes, thank you.
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:45.039
That's the company.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.359
There are a couple of others as well, but lovable is the most popular and probably the easiest to use.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.039
And so they'll just create this fake website on Lovable for you.
00:27:53.359 --> 00:28:00.079
But the other thing they do is they might actually go through the motions and set up your site for you if you want something simple.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.480
But they have the passwords, remember, to your website because they set it up for you.
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:15.519
So at any time, once you become a popular author, they can then, and especially if you have email services on your website and you're paying for this website.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:20.799
So you might say, Yeah, set it up for me on WordPress, and here's the I'll pay for it.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.319
Here's my passwords.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.319
So they'll set it up, everything's great.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.920
And then someday, one day, just out of the blue, you can't access your website.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.680
And you realize that your website is actually now a porn website.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:35.279
Oh god, which is true, it's happened to a lot of people.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:42.240
And then they'll use your email from that site to send out more scam and spam to people in order to trick them.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:49.440
And of course, there's no way you can get WordPress to stop your site because you no longer have the passwords to get in.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:00.799
And you ultimately you can get it to stop, but it takes two, three weeks to do this after you've discovered it because you've got to go and prove to these get to the WordPress hey, here's my payments.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.440
I made this payment, this is not my website.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:05.599
You got to take it down, and so on.
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:10.240
So the goal is really just to get you to pay for their crimes as well.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.319
How about cover on social media?
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:18.400
What about any particular scams that you know new authors should watch out for on social media?
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.640
Yeah, they're using the same ones on social media as they do in the emails.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:24.319
Yeah, they just use the same thing.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.119
A lot of times it's the beta read scam.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.279
You'll see that this is new on Blue Sky.
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:33.599
If you're on there every day, there's about 10 or 12 of us who've kind of got a pack.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:41.839
We go through and scour the sites for looking for new beta readers to come up, and they're easily identifiable, that they're obviously fake.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.599
There's good beta readers on all of these social media sites.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.279
X basebooks these scammers are saying I can beta read for you.
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:50.240
Yeah, exactly.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.799
And they English is their second language, so most of them know enough English.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:02.319
But what they generally do is get your manuscript, run it through an AI reader, and then the AI writes a summary of it, and then they send it back to you.
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:04.720
And so they didn't really read your manuscript at all.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:06.480
They just gave you an AI summary of how.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.119
Oh, and you probably and you definitely pay them for this.
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:09.920
Exactly.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:20.079
Or what they'll do is they it's like phishing, and you reel them in just a little and you wait for them to struggle, and then after they weaken, you keep reeling in the fish.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.519
You do the same thing with the author.
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.519
You give them the free beta read, and then you say, Hey, I can edit your book for you too.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:33.759
And so maybe the beta reads free, but the edit costs money, and then they never deliver on the on the edit, obviously.
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:39.599
Or if they do, they just run it through an AI and fix a few grammar problems and that you have and some typos.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.559
And you ended up paying five, six hundred dollars for something you could have done yourself.
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:48.079
Yeah, so that's the big thing that's going on social media.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.880
But there's tons of others, you know, things like improving your SEO, which sounds really great.
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:55.920
And then everybody needs to do that with their website.
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:05.920
And so I again a lot of times they just make up stuff too, and say, we're gonna provide this service to you, and you have really no idea what they're doing, but it sounds great.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:06.960
Yeah, Bob.
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:09.680
I was just trying to use metadata to get more sale.
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:12.000
Ah, yes.
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:13.200
Yes, absolutely.
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:14.400
Exactly.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:15.279
Yeah.
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:21.359
So what should writers do if they've been subjected to a scammer?
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.599
For me, I've got all of these emails that I never, never I don't open.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.200
They're in my they're in my inbox, but let's say I did open them and it was a scammer.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:30.240
What should I do with it?
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.759
Yeah, immediately reported this phishing if you open it.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.039
And if you don't open it, just send it to your scam or scam.
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.519
I'm sorry, send it to your spam and leave it there.
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:52.480
I find that uh Gmail is probably one of the better popular email sites that you could use that does a fairly good job of eliminating spam from coming to your email box.
00:31:52.640 --> 00:32:01.680
So you can imagine if you're getting 10 scam letters a day in your inbox, that they probably stop 20 others from coming in.
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:04.640
So you can just imagine the bulk of the stuff that's coming out.
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.000
But you still wish they would get rid of those other 10, right?
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:17.599
And I find that because I and a few others, we report these over and over again to Gmail in a variety of ways, and they tend not to do anything about them, unfortunately.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:30.880
But you should still keep reporting them as spam because one thing that does happen is if an email address gets reported enough times as spam, ultimately Gmail will stop it from coming into anybody's inbox.
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:34.960
The scammers get around that by just simply cycling through emails.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:40.720
So they'll just create a new email address every day and keep sending it out, but still report it.
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.599
You do get open up one.
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.160
The thing to do is not to respond to it.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:57.680
And if you do respond, you probably are gonna get either really nasty emails back to you, or you're going to get somebody trying to lure you in and try to be her friend.
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:07.440
The latter's more common than the first, but but if you do figure out it's a scam and you call them on it, that's when you're gonna get the nasty emails that come back.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.480
Other times they just ghost you, which is probably the best thing that can happen.
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.799
Yeah, that's just give up on the worst case scenario.
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.440
Yeah, but I personally am a do not engage.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:18.160
That is my that is my strategy.
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:23.359
And in life, I tend to be a trust but verify person online.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:28.319
I am a verify and then trust kind of person anymore.
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.920
So I yeah, I it's sad that we have to be that way.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:38.240
And because most people are decent people and most people are kind and mean well toward other people.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:42.480
Even if you don't get along with them, your personalities clash, they tend to mean well.
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:48.000
But the scammers could care less about who you are or what you are or what your financial situation is.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:50.799
All they see are dollar signs, and that's what they want.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:57.279
If you could give like one major preventative strategy to avoid this, what would it be?
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:03.920
Hey writer, I'm taking a quick pause in our interview to share a handy free tool from Write It Scared.
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:10.320
Do you have a story idea you can't stop thinking about, but you're not quite sure how to turn it into a novel?
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:15.119
Or have you started writing only to stall out when you weren't sure what should happen next?
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:16.880
I have something that will help.
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:30.320
My novel planning quick start guide, first refidence, will help you organize your ideas, test drive your story concept, clarify your characters, and create a high-level plan so you can start writing with more confidence and less guesswork.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.800
Grab it free at writitscared.co forward slash novel planning guide or find the link in the show notes.
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:38.480
Now let's get back to our episode.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.800
Yeah, get your email offline.
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:42.480
Get it offline.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.480
Any place that it appears online.
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:49.920
LinkedIn, for example, is one of the big places that AI scrapes your email address for.
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:55.039
When we signed up for LinkedIn 15, 20 years ago when LinkedIn first came out, right?
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.440
We put our email addresses up on it.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:04.639
We did the same thing on Facebook, but Facebook is deliberately taking them down, primarily because Facebook doesn't want you emailing each other.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.599
They want you staying on Facebook, talking to each other there.
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:13.119
But LinkedIn left them up, and and that's where a lot of the AI AIs are scraping your emails.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:14.400
All right.
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:22.719
So get your get your email off the off of your social media sites and think seriously about having it on your website.
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:29.920
And you will see a drop in initially, anyways, in some of the the scam that's coming or the spam that's coming to you from scammers.
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:30.639
Okay.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:45.920
So what would you say to a writer, a new writer who's getting ready to publish, and they are staring at this great big moving beast of marketing.
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:50.960
Do you have anything encouraging that you could share or any tips of where they could get started?
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.480
And feel safe if you do so.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:53.679
Yeah, a couple of things.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.599
First, realize that that all marketing advice isn't good for everybody.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:03.360
So what worked for me may not work for you as an author.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:05.280
There's a couple of reasons for that.
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:06.960
One is the kind of book you wrote.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:13.599
So if you wrote nonfiction versus fiction, you market them in slightly different ways and use different strategies for that.
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:18.719
I know when my children's books are marketed in a totally different way than my hiking guidebooks are.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:24.880
But my hiking guidebooks are pretty similar to my writing guidebooks and strategies because they're both nonfiction, if you see what I'm saying.
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:26.159
So you have to realize that.
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:30.639
And then secondly, as part of that, each of us have different unique personalities.
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:41.440
Some of us are really outgoing, some of us are more introverted, and some of us aren't great at speaking in large crowds, but we do great speaking one-on-one with somebody.
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:44.960
And that really affects which marketing strategy you're going to use.
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.920
For me, I don't have any problem speaking in front of crowds.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.280
I did high school and college forensics and stuff.
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.000
So I don't mind giving a presentation.
00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.480
But for another author, they get up there and give a presentation and they'd be horrible at it because they're just nervous and frightened out of it.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.239
So you have to be self-aware of what works for me and what doesn't.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.760
And then pick and choose the marketing strategies that you're going to use.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:13.920
Having said that, there are some real basic things that every author should do no matter what they wrote.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:20.639
The first thing is you should get yourself a website that is that you own and that nobody else designed, that you put together.
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.559
There's lots of easy ones you can use that have templates and themes to them.
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:28.960
I use WordPress, but I know other people who use other ones that are just as good.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:44.079
But get a website that is an author's website, then and then you put your books on your author's website because um I'm not getting too deep into marketing, but the the key thing that you're doing is you as the author are a brand.
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:50.880
So nobody buys Cujo, the book, they buy a Stephen King book.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.239
And then one of those Stephen King's books is Cujo.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.280
And so Stephen King is the brand.
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.079
And you as an author, your name that you use on your books is your brand.
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:04.639
So your author's website should be focused on your brand.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.760
Two, you should get out onto social media, start slow.
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:10.880
This is called building an author's platform.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:26.079
And what should happen is I would use things like Blue Sky, X, Facebook, Instagram, and then later, if you have a lot of books and you really want to sell a lot of books, then start getting into things like YouTube and so on.
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:27.840
But start slow with social media.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.079
The idea is to build up followers and to start doing all of your social media even before your book comes out.
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:39.599
And what you're going to post on social media are articles that you write and that are your website.
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:41.280
And so what articles do you write?
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:42.719
See, for me, it's easy, right?
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:44.320
Because I got hiking guide books.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.559
I write about the hiking trails, right, that I do.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.920
And you can go to my hiking website and find out about all those trails and stuff like that.
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.920
But it says nothing on that site about my children's books that I wrote or my novel or anything like that.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.119
Maybe it does some passing in my bio, but that's it.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.559
So you stay really focused on your website and you try to draw people back to it in a number of different ways.
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.320
And if you write fiction, you have to be really creative in what you're writing about.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.559
Suppose you wrote fantasy, and in your fantasy book, you're world building.
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.119
So you might write articles about world building.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:22.079
Hey, this is how you worldbuild, this is how you don't do it, this is what I did.
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.239
Maybe you talk about the research you did.
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:28.000
Hey, I wanted to make sure I had this special kind of sword that was used.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:31.679
And so I researched swords and tell about your research.
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:39.519
Other fantasy readers, even though they're reading fiction, they're interested in nonfiction about your journey as an author.
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.119
So you have to think creatively about what you're doing to get that all out there.
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:50.480
Once you've done that and you actually publish your book, then start thinking about getting press releases out to people.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:52.960
That's part of your author's platform as well.
00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:11.599
And so these press releases can go to newspapers, magazines, bloggers, podcasters, other authors who write in your area, your genre specifically, readers who have book clubs and stuff about in your genre, and you start focusing on getting to them.
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.840
And you start just building these connections and these networks.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:28.000
But the idea is to always get them to go back to one of two places, either your website, which is who you are, and because there they can find out about all your books and read more about you and your research.
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:33.679
And then that keeps them focused on you rather than somebody else's book, right?
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.000
Yeah.
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.400
Or you send them to where you sell your book, your Amazon.com page.
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:41.119
So that way they're like, I love Stacy's book.
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:44.400
I'm gonna go to her page and I go there and then I buy her book right now.
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:45.920
And that's the idea.
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.320
Keep them focused on you, get them to buy your book.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:54.079
And then you can do other things like book readings, book signings, presentations about your topic, and so on.
00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:56.480
But that and you see what you're doing is expanding out.
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.920
You start from your website and then everything gets wider.
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:02.800
And don't forget to write the next book.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:03.360
Right.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:04.800
Yes, that's the challenge.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:10.079
What you have to do, I think, is set aside time every day to work on marketing.
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.719
And it can be just as little as 15 minutes a day.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.679
And that will take you maybe a month in to build your website.
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.800
But if you're still writing your book, start doing your website now and get it up.
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:24.480
Don't wait till your book is published and then try to do it retroactively, right?
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:25.440
That doesn't work.
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.960
And also remember that marketing is for indie authors, anyways, is a long run.
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.440
It's a marathon, not a sprint.
00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:37.199
So you just can't go out and quick sell a whole bunch of books.
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.079
You've got to do it little by little, piece by piece.
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:41.840
And eventually it just builds out.
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:46.079
And pretty soon people start discovering you without you even trying.
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:52.719
They just they run across your hashtag on social media and suddenly discover who you are as an author.
00:41:52.880 --> 00:42:01.039
They listen to Stacy's podcast and discover who I am and go like, oh, I was looking for a hiking guide book, or in my case, I was looking for an editor or something like that.
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:01.360
Yeah.
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:03.119
And then that's how they discover me.
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:05.599
And so that's what you have to do as an author, too.
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.000
Spend a little bit of time each day doing it.
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:09.280
That's a good strategy.
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:16.880
That's a good strategy to just instead of thinking you have to shotgun it and get it all done at once, nothing like that in their works.
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:18.159
Because that's a beautiful analogy.
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.039
This is it is a marathon, not a spread.
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:32.000
So it's yeah, a little bit at a time, little dribs, little drabs, and little bits of effort over a long period of time creates you know the outcome.
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.719
The outcome that you're desire that you're just like writing.
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:41.360
If you wrote a thousand words a day, it will take you what 70 days to get up to 70,000 words, and now you've got a novel.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:43.840
So obviously your novel's not ready to be published yet.
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.920
You got to revise it and add it and so on.
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:49.440
But at least you got a novel to work with after 70 days.
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:55.440
But if you don't put in that time every day on those thousand words, you are gonna get it.
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:57.840
It might be two years before you get to 70,000 words.
00:42:58.159 --> 00:42:58.639
Absolutely.
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:05.599
But you have given us a ton of insights on identifying and protecting ourselves from marketing scams.
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:07.599
And I highly recommend your book.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:17.360
It also lists out all the different types of scams, and there's a checklist in it that you can that you can run through if you're thinking that something is suspicious.
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.639
It's yeah, so definitely check it out.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:24.320
And if it's an unsolicited email, it's very suspicious.
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:25.519
Verify first.
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:26.480
Trust later.
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:28.320
Yeah, that those are the first clues.
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:29.440
It's unsolicited.
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.960
You're like, yeah, that's not how people work in this this industry.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:38.159
And secondly, if it's a Gmail address, that's a really bad sign, too.
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.760
So it used to be about the company being from Delaware.
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.039
I read this quote.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:45.760
Yeah, that's a little harder to find.
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:55.360
But what happens is for cells in the United States, like these Nigerian cells, they can set up a shell company easily out of that particular state.
00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.199
I think Yeah, North Dakota's gotten really, I believe it's North Dakota, yeah.
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.199
They've gotten So that it's really easy to set up shell companies there too now.
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:04.480
So they're exploding with that.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.639
And so it's really hard to trace these people.
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:13.280
And that's why I you don't hear all the time about these arrests because they've done a good job of covering their tracks.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:13.760
Dang.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.039
And that's one way they do it.
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:20.000
So yeah, as an indie author, you probably won't figure out where they're from and that.
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.440
And that's also a sign that a very bad sign.
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:25.360
A company should be able to tell you where they're from.
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:31.519
So if you Yeah, and a lot of times I get these emails and there's just a name at the end.
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:37.119
There's no, there's no what company are they with or anything like that.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:38.800
And I'm like, whatever.
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:39.599
It's a waste of time.
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:40.239
Yeah, exactly.
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:43.360
Somebody should if they want me to edit their book.
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:52.400
Yeah, if they wanted me to edit their book, they should be able to ask me where you're from, and I can give them the city and they can look it up online and see, yeah, he has a house there in town.
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:55.519
And when you can probably even Google map where I live, unfortunately.
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.000
But you know, you could figure it out anyways.
00:44:58.239 --> 00:44:59.199
Okay, he's legit.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:07.199
But when somebody's really just go to Fiverr and I want to keep it privacy purposes, I want to keep privacy purposes.
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:08.239
You can just have a P.O.
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:11.840
box then in that town, or you don't have to give me your mailing address.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.199
Just tell me what city you're from.
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:13.840
Yeah.
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:19.440
But what do you think is the most underrated book marketing strategy?
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:27.519
Optimizing your author's brand so that it is easily recognizable by AI search and summarization.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:29.360
Break that down a little bit.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:36.559
So the we if you went and Google something today, Google your name, and I bet your name will pop up.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.000
There's lots of websites, right?
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:48.880
But the first thing that will pop up and has been popping up in the last year or so is an AI-generated summary that Google creates, rather, of who you are.
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:56.079
And this is all drawn by AI quickly scraping through websites about you and what you've done.
00:45:56.320 --> 00:46:02.880
So in the past, we've always told authors, hey, when you get a website, you have to optimize for SEO, search engine optimization.
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:06.480
So that way your website appears high on the rankings.
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:11.280
Otherwise, if you're on page 10 of Google, nobody's going to ever discover you.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:16.960
You want to be on page one, one of those first 10, preferably one of those first three.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:26.079
Now, what you want to do is not necessarily you want to still be in the first three, but most people are reading those summaries to learn out, to learn about who you are.
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:34.800
And then from there, they'll click the little website button, which is on the side, which is where Google says, I got the information from this site.
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.000
And then they'll look up your website and search out for you.
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:47.920
So what you really want to do is make sure that your website, when you're marketing, fits what AI is looking for when it's summary, creates its summary.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.079
And there's a whole strategy to that.
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:51.119
Another book.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:51.679
It is.
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:56.320
And it I'm working on that, researching it actually right now, but it's slow going.
00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:05.599
And because I've been working on some other projects in the meantime that I had to finish up and promoting my last book, but that will probably be my next writing guide book that I do.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:07.280
It's on AI optimization.
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:17.119
Optimize your website to be what AI is looking for when somebody types in who's uh your name.
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:18.000
Your name.
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:18.400
Okay.
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:19.360
Or your brand.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:20.639
Your name's your brand.
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:21.920
Your name is your brand.
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.039
And and it could be like, for example, with a podcast, your brand could be the name of your podcast, too.
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.320
But for most authors, just selling books, it's their name.
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.679
So that's what we're really looking for.
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:32.320
Fantastic.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:34.960
Yeah, AB, you want to be in that summary.
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.199
So my wife runs a bookstore.
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:46.880
And so our goal was how do we get her bookstore name to pop up when somebody types in the name of her bookstore and doesn't type in something else?
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:52.719
That way it shows up and gives accurate information about what she does at the bookstore and what she offers.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:54.800
And that's what you want to do as an author.
00:47:54.960 --> 00:48:02.960
So it's a it's I wouldn't call it a challenge, but you have to rephrase things on your website.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:08.960
And when I talked about building that author's platform earlier, getting in social media, that's part of it.
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:21.840
The more social media connections you have out there, the more social media sites, the more podcasts you appear on, the more interviews you do with people, the more likely there's information for AI to scrape and put together and access.
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:30.239
It's leading into things that are long form pieces of content and short form too for the purpose of feeding a machine that will tell somebody who you are.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:30.800
Right.
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:31.199
Right.
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:31.760
Yeah.
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:34.159
So we have touched on a lot of stuff.
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:38.320
You've mentioned some excellent resources, the Authors Guild, Writers Beware.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:44.639
For hybrid publishing, there's another one, or for hybrid publishers, it's the independent book.
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:45.280
What is it?
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:46.159
What are they called?
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:50.480
Oh, the Independent Book Publishers Association.
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:55.440
They have a criteria for legit hybrid publishers.
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:56.719
So you could look to that.
00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:00.159
And then of course your book has tons and tons of references and resources.
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:06.159
So why don't you tell us where listeners can find you, your books, and then what's coming next for you?
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:07.280
Sure, yeah.
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.079
All my books are available on Amazon, of course.
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:15.360
So you can just type in my name, Rob Picknell, and look it up there, and they'll all pop up.
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.639
My website is inventingreality.com.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:26.480
And there you'll find over 2,500 articles about writing, grammar, self-publishing, marketing.
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:32.559
I don't provide any marketing services at all to people beyond proofreading your press release.
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.400
There's also a list of all my books.
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:40.400
If you're interested in editing services, I do have editing and self-publishing services that I offer as well.
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:46.000
And then there's some other things on there too that you can look at and get for free and find out more about who I am and so on.
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:55.760
I'm always working on something like hiking guidebooks, for example, writing guidebooks, researching, but the main focus of my writing right now is my science fiction anthology.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:50:02.239
So I've put together 13 of my stories, most of which have already been published into a single anthology.
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:08.880
And then in addition to that, I have the first and a planned 13-part series, science fiction series.
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:11.760
And the first one is called Project Fireball.
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:18.000
And in Project Fireball, it turns out that in 1936, a UFO crashed in Bavaria.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.679
The Nazis captured it and now they're trying to reverse engineer it.
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:30.639
And a uh professor from Dresden gets roped into doing it and he figures out how it works.
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:41.760
And so now the question is: will the Nazis develop the UFO saucer technology before the end of the war in order to save the day?
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:42.559
I love it.
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:43.840
For their Reich.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:51.679
So of course, there's a I won't give away the what stops him from doing it, but but anyways, that so those are my next two books.
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.760
They should be out just before Thanksgiving.
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:55.440
That sounds really fun.
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:58.960
It feels like science fiction alternate history a little bit.
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:00.239
And ooh, I love it.
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:06.960
Yeah, I tried to work it so it could have actually happened, but it's all done in secret in these secret places.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:13.119
So there could still be that flying saucer buried in the caverns in the owl mountains out in Poland somewhere.
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.280
We'll have to dig it up and find out.
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:16.239
That is really cool.
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.400
It would freak me out if they actually did find one.
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:21.920
And then I'd be like, Hey, my book, what's right.
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.239
Yeah, well, tell what they say.
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:27.760
What used to be dystopian is now in the historical.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:28.880
Right, you're right, yeah.
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:29.280
Yeah.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:31.519
Just go over to current events.
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:32.960
That's where you'll find the dystopians.
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:34.239
Yeah, exactly.
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:40.239
So again, thank you so much for your time and for the resources that you put out in the world that help other authors.
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:41.119
Yeah, you pet.
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:42.239
Thanks for having me on the show.
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:43.440
I appreciate it.
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:46.639
Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast.
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.119
If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:52.639
And please leave a review.
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:58.159
Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories.
00:51:58.320 --> 00:51:59.519
Let's lift each other up.
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:02.480
Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable.
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:03.599
I'll see you soon.