WEBVTT
00:00:00.609 --> 00:00:02.528
Hello and welcome to the Working Image Podcast.
00:00:02.589 --> 00:00:04.009
I'm your host, Jared Michael Gordon.
00:00:04.011 --> 00:00:06.450
This is episode nine, trust the Professional.
00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:07.570
Let's get started.
00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:15.130
If you're listening to this podcast, the chances are high that you are a professional yourself.
00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:18.410
You may be a carpenter, a lawyer, a plumber, or a dentist.
00:00:18.411 --> 00:00:21.010
It doesn't matter if your collar is blue or white.
00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:22.690
You are a professional.
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:29.390
I am also professional, but you see, I know my limitations when someone comes to my house to fix something.
00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:32.829
I know to trust what they are saying because they are the professional.
00:00:33.469 --> 00:00:41.750
I know to listen to my lawyers because they are the professionals, and you as the professional in your industry, want to be listened to as well.
00:00:42.429 --> 00:00:46.478
A professional should suggest what's right for their customer or client.
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:56.310
To be a professional in an industry means that industry is where you are educated, experienced, and is your main paid occupation.
00:00:57.030 --> 00:01:00.799
I have a very nice electric toothbrush, but this doesn't make me aist.
00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:06.599
Someone may know how to take very nice photos, but that doesn't make them a photographer.
00:01:07.269 --> 00:01:10.680
Here is a problem the design community has been facing for years.
00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:20.799
Now, in today's world, if you have access to Photoshop or you know a little bit about the web, some business owners will consider you a professional because they don't know any better.
00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:21.879
How could they?
00:01:21.881 --> 00:01:28.569
You have to take their word for it, but the design industry requires much more than owning the right software and hardware.
00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:34.689
You as the business owner need to do a little bit of research on the designer you're thinking about doing business with.
00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.609
Look at their website, ask for a list of previous clients, find their Google reviews.
00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:42.609
Do they actually have a company or a degree in design?
00:01:43.069 --> 00:01:57.569
You really need to consider these points before hiring a designer because they are going to do something for your company that will affect your company as a whole, such as designing marketing material or creating a logo or even a website.
00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.469
Do you really want someone who just obtained Photoshop and a computer to create these elements for your business?
00:02:03.049 --> 00:02:03.890
Think about it.
00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:13.919
It's easier to listen to a professional from certain industries, for example, an electrician, and that's because there could be catastrophic results if you don't listen to them.
00:02:14.139 --> 00:02:19.280
God forbid, your house could burn down or all your equipment in your house could fry, if not properly grounded.
00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:28.319
But when it comes to listening to a designer regarding branding website or maybe your digital marketing, it's easier to ignore that information.
00:02:28.939 --> 00:02:34.360
Now, I don't mean that your company doesn't have the money at that moment in time to invest in what is being proposed.
00:02:34.669 --> 00:02:38.400
That's a completely different issue because you are listening.
00:02:38.500 --> 00:02:41.080
You just might not have the funds to move forward at that time.
00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:51.069
I'm talking about when you just don't care enough to really listen to what the designer is telling you and you are going to lose business as a result.
00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:56.750
I've seen this happen a few times and I've heard about it from other designers many times before.
00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:01.000
Here is why I'm talking about listening to you and trusting a professional.
00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:17.650
I was watching Pepsi Wears My Jet, which is a Netflix original about the Pepsi giveaway in the nineties, and if you're old enough to remember the issue, Pepsi introduced their point system where you could send points in and get Pepsi promotional gear, you know, jackets, hats, so on and so forth.
00:03:18.110 --> 00:03:25.960
Well, at the end of the commercial, there was a fighter jet shown and the amount of 7 million points without a disclaimer that you can't actually get the jet.
00:03:26.289 --> 00:03:31.520
It actually showed the jet and said 7 million tickets and it said, um, whatever type of jet it was.
00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:32.479
That's it.
00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:33.599
No disclaimer, nothing else.
00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:45.360
Well, one kid named John Leonard tried to get the jet and it went to court and it took about four or five years to settle costing, I'm sure a few million dollars in lawyer fees for Pepsi.
00:03:45.900 --> 00:04:04.039
But the kicker is that when the commercial was created, the art director, the professional Pepsi had hired to create the commercial originally had an amount on the bottom of the commercial for 700 billion or some crazy unattainable number on the bottom of the commercial because that was the joke.
00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:06.159
You can get a hanger jet if you have like 700 billion.
00:04:06.830 --> 00:04:14.939
However, Pepsi wanted the number to be seen better, so they lowered the number to 700 million and still had an issue reading it.
00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:16.500
So they went to 7 million.
00:04:16.838 --> 00:04:23.860
But the art director warned them to make sure someone couldn't actually obtain that many points or they may have an issue.
00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:30.740
But Pepsi ran the commercial and chaos ensued and all they had to do was listen to the professional.
00:04:31.509 --> 00:04:35.259
So I wanted to talk about the importance of listening and trusting the professional.
00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:40.379
Here are a couple of real life cautionary tales to help you avoid issues in the future.
00:04:40.810 --> 00:04:43.579
I Just want to point out that I have permission to use these stories.
00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:45.449
Example one.
00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.930
This one has to do with seo, search engine optimization.
00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:51.290
I signed on a new SEO client.
00:04:51.509 --> 00:04:55.170
Now I didn't know them when they created their website or any of their branding.
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.370
They hired me to gain new clients through Google searches.
00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:00.290
Seo not an issue.
00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:04.610
We have strategies that work just fine and we can implement them fast.
00:05:04.778 --> 00:05:10.370
However, when you want to boost your seo, there are always little things that you need to tweak on your website.
00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.730
So I gave the client a small list of four things or maybe five things I needed to be done on the site.
00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.240
The client didn't have access to the back end of his website.
00:05:20.129 --> 00:05:21.259
Here's a pro tip.
00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:29.100
Make sure in your website contract that you are given super admin access to the website that you paid for.
00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:31.699
Otherwise your website can be held hostage.
00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:33.660
More on that in another episode.
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:35.269
So back to his story.
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.910
So he needed to email the needs list to his friend who is the web developer.
00:05:40.850 --> 00:05:44.600
My client told me that he is a rocky relationship with his friend, but he'll get it done.
00:05:44.629 --> 00:05:45.519
Okay, no problem.
00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:48.959
The client told me he did it and the updates will be made.
00:05:49.028 --> 00:05:50.399
I said, great, let's move forward.
00:05:50.660 --> 00:06:01.480
Now, I can't see if the changes were made because on his site this has to be done on the back end, so I would have to go in and see that these were all taken care of, so I have to take his word for it.
00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:09.319
Well, the work begins and he gets a few new clients every month, but nothing like the goals that we had established in the beginning.
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:20.350
At the end of the six month contract, my client was upset and yelling and telling me that he wasted time and money with my company not getting all the leads that he wanted to get.
00:06:20.449 --> 00:06:26.230
Now throughout these six months, I asked him if he was sure his friend did these updates to the website.
00:06:27.009 --> 00:06:28.240
So I asked him again.
00:06:28.899 --> 00:06:33.629
Then my client says, maybe, I don't know, probably not because we don't get along well.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.550
So I said, can you call his friend now and confirm?
00:06:37.329 --> 00:06:38.579
Well, he called his friend.
00:06:38.581 --> 00:06:43.300
His friend picked up surprisingly and told my client he never updated his site.
00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.778
He just didn't get around to it, and there is the issue.
00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.300
Not having those updates done prevented us to hit the SEO goals we needed to make.
00:06:50.829 --> 00:07:00.699
Imagine the number of leads they would've gotten if they had just listened to us and gotten those updates done, but they passed it over and now they didn't get the results they wanted.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.910
Example two, and this one is really shocking.
00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:11.019
A company had an older website that was from the early two thousands and it was HTML based for its time.
00:07:11.019 --> 00:07:17.339
The website was very nice, but it wasn't mobile responsive, so it didn't change to fit all the different phones and tablets we used today.
00:07:17.899 --> 00:07:20.589
Also, it was insecure because of its age.
00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:24.980
There was also a myriad of issues with the site, which I don't need to point out here.
00:07:25.209 --> 00:07:31.459
Just know that the site was in very bad shape and really needed to be redesigned on a newer platform to meet today's needs.
00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.889
I designed a different project for this company and then they asked me about the website.
00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.810
I told'em what was wrong, how to fix it, and what these updates would do for their company and help them grow.
00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:45.569
Finally, I gave them a price, which is industry standard pricing.
00:07:46.230 --> 00:07:53.819
However, I also told them they need to get this done because people can't load their website on a phone, and that's where most people searched the web.
00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:57.379
Now, in addition, their desktop version was also running very slow.
00:07:58.189 --> 00:07:59.079
I wasn't pushy.
00:07:59.149 --> 00:08:00.800
I didn't act like the sky was falling.
00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:16.319
I simply laid out the potential problems that could occur if they don't move forward, whether I designed the website or not, while they dragged their feet in making a decision and they felt they didn't really need to update just yet, and I think something like six months went by.
00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:21.930
I checked on them periodically to see if they wanted to move forward, but they didn't and they were very nice about it.
00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:24.889
And one day out of the blue, they called me.
00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:30.410
I greeted them and they told me to update the contract dates and they would sign right now.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.129
I asked what happened and why the urgency.
00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:34.610
Of course, I already knew the answer.
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:36.928
They had to have lost some money on the site.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.928
Well, they told me they lost a bid for ready for this.
00:08:40.110 --> 00:08:41.049
Are you ready for this?
00:08:41.360 --> 00:09:00.950
They lost a 6 million project because the potential client couldn't see their portfolio of work on his phone and got angry trying to use their site in general, and the potential client said, if that's how you represent your company, how are you going to treat this project and my company?
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.159
Overall, that was a very expensive lesson to learn.
00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:10.519
Now, of course, I wasn't happy that they lost that bid, but it's still a lesson worth telling.
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:44.129
These examples, I'm telling you, are on a larger scale, but remember whenever a professional, and in this case a professional designer is telling you something, you need to take it seriously and consider it no matter how large or small the issue might be, whether it's making sure you reply to all your online reviews or being sure to look at your Google Analytics every month, whatever the advice may be, whatever the proposal may be, you need to listen to it because it could have unforeseen, horrible and costly effects on your company.
00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.159
Remember, you are not expected to know what the professional knows.
00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.279
That's why you hired them in the first place.
00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:52.279
So listen to the professionals.
00:09:52.450 --> 00:09:54.200
It could just make or break your company.
00:09:54.909 --> 00:09:57.678
Well, that's it for episode nine of The Working Image Podcast.
00:09:57.720 --> 00:09:59.080
Trust the professional.
00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:02.639
All the necessary links and information are in the show notes.
00:10:02.928 --> 00:10:06.519
If you have any questions, email the working image gmail.com.
00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:08.440
We know your time is valuable.
00:10:08.558 --> 00:10:10.678
Thank you for using some of that time to listen.
00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.678
Take care everyone.
00:00:00.609 --> 00:00:02.528
Hello and welcome to the Working Image Podcast.
00:00:02.589 --> 00:00:04.009
I'm your host, Jared Michael Gordon.
00:00:04.011 --> 00:00:06.450
This is episode nine, trust the Professional.
00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:07.570
Let's get started.
00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:15.130
If you're listening to this podcast, the chances are high that you are a professional yourself.
00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:18.410
You may be a carpenter, a lawyer, a plumber, or a dentist.
00:00:18.411 --> 00:00:21.010
It doesn't matter if your collar is blue or white.
00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:22.690
You are a professional.
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:29.390
I am also professional, but you see, I know my limitations when someone comes to my house to fix something.
00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:32.829
I know to trust what they are saying because they are the professional.
00:00:33.469 --> 00:00:41.750
I know to listen to my lawyers because they are the professionals, and you as the professional in your industry, want to be listened to as well.
00:00:42.429 --> 00:00:46.478
A professional should suggest what's right for their customer or client.
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:56.310
To be a professional in an industry means that industry is where you are educated, experienced, and is your main paid occupation.
00:00:57.030 --> 00:01:00.799
I have a very nice electric toothbrush, but this doesn't make me aist.
00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:06.599
Someone may know how to take very nice photos, but that doesn't make them a photographer.
00:01:07.269 --> 00:01:10.680
Here is a problem the design community has been facing for years.
00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:20.799
Now, in today's world, if you have access to Photoshop or you know a little bit about the web, some business owners will consider you a professional because they don't know any better.
00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:21.879
How could they?
00:01:21.881 --> 00:01:28.569
You have to take their word for it, but the design industry requires much more than owning the right software and hardware.
00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:34.689
You as the business owner need to do a little bit of research on the designer you're thinking about doing business with.
00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:39.609
Look at their website, ask for a list of previous clients, find their Google reviews.
00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:42.609
Do they actually have a company or a degree in design?
00:01:43.069 --> 00:01:57.569
You really need to consider these points before hiring a designer because they are going to do something for your company that will affect your company as a whole, such as designing marketing material or creating a logo or even a website.
00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.469
Do you really want someone who just obtained Photoshop and a computer to create these elements for your business?
00:02:03.049 --> 00:02:03.890
Think about it.
00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:13.919
It's easier to listen to a professional from certain industries, for example, an electrician, and that's because there could be catastrophic results if you don't listen to them.
00:02:14.139 --> 00:02:19.280
God forbid, your house could burn down or all your equipment in your house could fry, if not properly grounded.
00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:28.319
But when it comes to listening to a designer regarding branding website or maybe your digital marketing, it's easier to ignore that information.
00:02:28.939 --> 00:02:34.360
Now, I don't mean that your company doesn't have the money at that moment in time to invest in what is being proposed.
00:02:34.669 --> 00:02:38.400
That's a completely different issue because you are listening.
00:02:38.500 --> 00:02:41.080
You just might not have the funds to move forward at that time.
00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:51.069
I'm talking about when you just don't care enough to really listen to what the designer is telling you and you are going to lose business as a result.
00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:56.750
I've seen this happen a few times and I've heard about it from other designers many times before.
00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:01.000
Here is why I'm talking about listening to you and trusting a professional.
00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:17.650
I was watching Pepsi Wears My Jet, which is a Netflix original about the Pepsi giveaway in the nineties, and if you're old enough to remember the issue, Pepsi introduced their point system where you could send points in and get Pepsi promotional gear, you know, jackets, hats, so on and so forth.
00:03:18.110 --> 00:03:25.960
Well, at the end of the commercial, there was a fighter jet shown and the amount of 7 million points without a disclaimer that you can't actually get the jet.
00:03:26.289 --> 00:03:31.520
It actually showed the jet and said 7 million tickets and it said, um, whatever type of jet it was.
00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:32.479
That's it.
00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:33.599
No disclaimer, nothing else.
00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:45.360
Well, one kid named John Leonard tried to get the jet and it went to court and it took about four or five years to settle costing, I'm sure a few million dollars in lawyer fees for Pepsi.
00:03:45.900 --> 00:04:04.039
But the kicker is that when the commercial was created, the art director, the professional Pepsi had hired to create the commercial originally had an amount on the bottom of the commercial for 700 billion or some crazy unattainable number on the bottom of the commercial because that was the joke.
00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:06.159
You can get a hanger jet if you have like 700 billion.
00:04:06.830 --> 00:04:14.939
However, Pepsi wanted the number to be seen better, so they lowered the number to 700 million and still had an issue reading it.
00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:16.500
So they went to 7 million.
00:04:16.838 --> 00:04:23.860
But the art director warned them to make sure someone couldn't actually obtain that many points or they may have an issue.
00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:30.740
But Pepsi ran the commercial and chaos ensued and all they had to do was listen to the professional.
00:04:31.509 --> 00:04:35.259
So I wanted to talk about the importance of listening and trusting the professional.
00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:40.379
Here are a couple of real life cautionary tales to help you avoid issues in the future.
00:04:40.810 --> 00:04:43.579
I Just want to point out that I have permission to use these stories.
00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:45.449
Example one.
00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.930
This one has to do with seo, search engine optimization.
00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:51.290
I signed on a new SEO client.
00:04:51.509 --> 00:04:55.170
Now I didn't know them when they created their website or any of their branding.
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.370
They hired me to gain new clients through Google searches.
00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:00.290
Seo not an issue.
00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:04.610
We have strategies that work just fine and we can implement them fast.
00:05:04.778 --> 00:05:10.370
However, when you want to boost your seo, there are always little things that you need to tweak on your website.
00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.730
So I gave the client a small list of four things or maybe five things I needed to be done on the site.
00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.240
The client didn't have access to the back end of his website.
00:05:20.129 --> 00:05:21.259
Here's a pro tip.
00:05:21.889 --> 00:05:29.100
Make sure in your website contract that you are given super admin access to the website that you paid for.
00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:31.699
Otherwise your website can be held hostage.
00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:33.660
More on that in another episode.
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:35.269
So back to his story.
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.910
So he needed to email the needs list to his friend who is the web developer.
00:05:40.850 --> 00:05:44.600
My client told me that he is a rocky relationship with his friend, but he'll get it done.
00:05:44.629 --> 00:05:45.519
Okay, no problem.
00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:48.959
The client told me he did it and the updates will be made.
00:05:49.028 --> 00:05:50.399
I said, great, let's move forward.
00:05:50.660 --> 00:06:01.480
Now, I can't see if the changes were made because on his site this has to be done on the back end, so I would have to go in and see that these were all taken care of, so I have to take his word for it.
00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:09.319
Well, the work begins and he gets a few new clients every month, but nothing like the goals that we had established in the beginning.
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:20.350
At the end of the six month contract, my client was upset and yelling and telling me that he wasted time and money with my company not getting all the leads that he wanted to get.
00:06:20.449 --> 00:06:26.230
Now throughout these six months, I asked him if he was sure his friend did these updates to the website.
00:06:27.009 --> 00:06:28.240
So I asked him again.
00:06:28.899 --> 00:06:33.629
Then my client says, maybe, I don't know, probably not because we don't get along well.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.550
So I said, can you call his friend now and confirm?
00:06:37.329 --> 00:06:38.579
Well, he called his friend.
00:06:38.581 --> 00:06:43.300
His friend picked up surprisingly and told my client he never updated his site.
00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.778
He just didn't get around to it, and there is the issue.
00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.300
Not having those updates done prevented us to hit the SEO goals we needed to make.
00:06:50.829 --> 00:07:00.699
Imagine the number of leads they would've gotten if they had just listened to us and gotten those updates done, but they passed it over and now they didn't get the results they wanted.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.910
Example two, and this one is really shocking.
00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:11.019
A company had an older website that was from the early two thousands and it was HTML based for its time.
00:07:11.019 --> 00:07:17.339
The website was very nice, but it wasn't mobile responsive, so it didn't change to fit all the different phones and tablets we used today.
00:07:17.899 --> 00:07:20.589
Also, it was insecure because of its age.
00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:24.980
There was also a myriad of issues with the site, which I don't need to point out here.
00:07:25.209 --> 00:07:31.459
Just know that the site was in very bad shape and really needed to be redesigned on a newer platform to meet today's needs.
00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.889
I designed a different project for this company and then they asked me about the website.
00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.810
I told'em what was wrong, how to fix it, and what these updates would do for their company and help them grow.
00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:45.569
Finally, I gave them a price, which is industry standard pricing.
00:07:46.230 --> 00:07:53.819
However, I also told them they need to get this done because people can't load their website on a phone, and that's where most people searched the web.
00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:57.379
Now, in addition, their desktop version was also running very slow.
00:07:58.189 --> 00:07:59.079
I wasn't pushy.
00:07:59.149 --> 00:08:00.800
I didn't act like the sky was falling.
00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:16.319
I simply laid out the potential problems that could occur if they don't move forward, whether I designed the website or not, while they dragged their feet in making a decision and they felt they didn't really need to update just yet, and I think something like six months went by.
00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:21.930
I checked on them periodically to see if they wanted to move forward, but they didn't and they were very nice about it.
00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:24.889
And one day out of the blue, they called me.
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I greeted them and they told me to update the contract dates and they would sign right now.
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I asked what happened and why the urgency.
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Of course, I already knew the answer.
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They had to have lost some money on the site.
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Well, they told me they lost a bid for ready for this.
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Are you ready for this?
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They lost a 6 million project because the potential client couldn't see their portfolio of work on his phone and got angry trying to use their site in general, and the potential client said, if that's how you represent your company, how are you going to treat this project and my company?
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Overall, that was a very expensive lesson to learn.
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Now, of course, I wasn't happy that they lost that bid, but it's still a lesson worth telling.
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These examples, I'm telling you, are on a larger scale, but remember whenever a professional, and in this case a professional designer is telling you something, you need to take it seriously and consider it no matter how large or small the issue might be, whether it's making sure you reply to all your online reviews or being sure to look at your Google Analytics every month, whatever the advice may be, whatever the proposal may be, you need to listen to it because it could have unforeseen, horrible and costly effects on your company.
00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.159
Remember, you are not expected to know what the professional knows.
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That's why you hired them in the first place.
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So listen to the professionals.
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It could just make or break your company.
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Well, that's it for episode nine of The Working Image Podcast.
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Trust the professional.
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All the necessary links and information are in the show notes.
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If you have any questions, email the working image gmail.com.
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We know your time is valuable.
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Thank you for using some of that time to listen.
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Take care everyone.
