The Second First Presidential Debate and Beyond

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:01.750
When you get older, you got to have yourself a
2
00:00:01.790 --> 00:00:05.530
little bit of the comfort. And that's where the avocado
3
00:00:05.589 --> 00:00:08.269
green mattress comes in, man. And unlike most mattress brands,
4
00:00:08.650 --> 00:00:11.509
they'll only sell you online. They do have stores too.
5
00:00:11.529 --> 00:00:13.369
You can go in the store. You can try them out.
6
00:00:13.810 --> 00:00:19.570
Unbelievably comfortable. Avocado mattress is designed for comfort, support, helping
7
00:00:19.609 --> 00:00:22.160
your body stay aligned. You know, the last time my
8
00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:27.300
body was aligned, it's been, I think it might've been
9
00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:30.440
the last time the Mets won the world series. That's
10
00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:33.299
how long it's been since it's been aligned. But these mattresses,
11
00:00:33.539 --> 00:00:37.659
avocado green mattress, responsibly sourced organic materials that are built
12
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:42.439
to last. So get an avocado green mattress. Avocado products
13
00:00:42.500 --> 00:00:47.060
are made, not manufactured, and thoughtfully crafted with real materials
14
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:49.939
to deliver lasting comfort and support. You can experience them
15
00:00:49.979 --> 00:00:53.840
in person at an avocado showroom or a premier retailer
16
00:00:53.899 --> 00:00:58.479
near you. Or shop online at avocadogreenmattress.com slash TWS to
17
00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:06.760
check out their mattress and furniture sale. avocadogreenmattress.com slash tws avocadogreenmattress.com
18
00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:13.609
slash tws period look you know i don't know when
19
00:01:13.629 --> 00:01:14.969
i'm going to leave this job i don't know when
20
00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:16.409
i'm going to stay in this job i don't know
21
00:01:16.469 --> 00:01:17.790
how these things are going to do but when i
22
00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:23.090
do you should replace me with indeed you should call
23
00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:28.920
indeed when you're replacing me because i listen This podcast,
24
00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.769
it requires skills. You need a face. You need a
25
00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:36.510
pie hole so that you can open your pie hole
26
00:01:37.670 --> 00:01:43.750
and just spout. Not everybody can do that. And so,
27
00:01:45.530 --> 00:01:47.670
you know, if you need to hire, you got to
28
00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.000
say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs.
29
00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:53.079
You can reach candidates that meet your specific criteria. Like
30
00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.459
if you want them to have skills or pie hole certifications.
31
00:01:58.159 --> 00:01:59.980
Maybe even you want to know what the location is.
32
00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.260
Only Indeed can get that stuff done efficiently. Trust me.
33
00:02:04.579 --> 00:02:07.969
You got to kiss a lot of frogs unless you
34
00:02:08.069 --> 00:02:10.969
use one of these services there like Indeed. So spend
35
00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:14.110
less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who
36
00:02:14.129 --> 00:02:16.930
check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results.
37
00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:19.780
When you need the right person to cut through the chaos,
38
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:25.419
this is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. Listeners of this
39
00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:29.199
show will get a $ 75 sponsored job credit to help
40
00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.180
get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com
41
00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:36.939
slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now
42
00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:39.729
and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed
43
00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:51.370
on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hey, everybody.
44
00:02:51.409 --> 00:02:55.759
Welcome to the weekly show. podcast with me john stewart
45
00:02:55.979 --> 00:02:59.270
we are back we are back with britney memedovic lauren
46
00:02:59.289 --> 00:03:04.490
walker our airswild producers we have been away for months
47
00:03:06.689 --> 00:03:10.810
for years i when we left i don't even know
48
00:03:10.870 --> 00:03:13.469
who was in the race it was it was donald
49
00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:17.060
trump versus michael dukakis and then things switched around Now
50
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.550
it's Donald Trump, Kamala Harris. We've only been gone for
51
00:03:20.789 --> 00:03:26.349
two weeks, and now we come back to the earth-shaking debate, which,
52
00:03:26.889 --> 00:03:32.550
as ABC told us, will change everything. Nothing is the same.
53
00:03:32.930 --> 00:03:33.210
No.
54
00:03:33.949 --> 00:03:38.110
It's raining dogs, night is day. Nothing is the same.
55
00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:39.729
Our lives are changed forever.
56
00:03:40.710 --> 00:03:44.539
I assume that you both watched with bated breath. I
57
00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:51.990
found myself... really nervous based on just how consequential the
58
00:03:52.050 --> 00:03:56.889
last one was, where two minutes into it, I was like, oh,
59
00:03:57.849 --> 00:03:59.969
he's going to have to leave. He's not going to
60
00:04:00.009 --> 00:04:03.289
be able to run for president. So I was happy
61
00:04:03.330 --> 00:04:08.250
to see it not necessarily be revelatory or answer a
62
00:04:08.289 --> 00:04:11.069
lot of questions, but at least bring us back to
63
00:04:11.129 --> 00:04:13.990
a slightly more normal cycle, even if that meant Donald
64
00:04:14.009 --> 00:04:15.879
Trump yelling about people eating pets.
65
00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:19.810
Yeah, it's weird that that's normal. That's where the bar is.
66
00:04:20.430 --> 00:04:24.509
I think we've gotten to this point where because there's
67
00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:27.449
so much coverage of everything, there is an expectation that
68
00:04:27.569 --> 00:04:30.069
everything is the Super Bowl. And I guess the debates
69
00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:33.410
are probably the closest thing that you can have to that.
70
00:04:33.470 --> 00:04:35.740
But I do think it might be nice to get
71
00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:40.220
back to the idea that these political campaigns are grinding
72
00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:45.829
it out, convincing people. That you've got policies that are
73
00:04:45.870 --> 00:04:51.269
going to positively impact their lives rather than a series
74
00:04:51.589 --> 00:04:57.470
of gala events that will change everything and do that.
75
00:04:57.490 --> 00:05:02.189
Because I think that drama feels very manufactured. Where did
76
00:05:02.209 --> 00:05:02.990
you watch the debate, Lauren?
77
00:05:03.509 --> 00:05:05.920
Oh, just my house. Watch Party of One.
78
00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:06.800
Nice.
79
00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.279
I ate a sandwich and I kind of like white
80
00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:12.100
knuckled it for two minutes because it seemed like the
81
00:05:12.139 --> 00:05:13.199
energy was nervous.
82
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:13.639
Right.
83
00:05:13.819 --> 00:05:15.959
The handshake thing, I was like.
84
00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:18.569
I liked the handshake. John, what did you think?
85
00:05:19.250 --> 00:05:22.029
I would have done bro hug. I'm always, I'm a
86
00:05:22.069 --> 00:05:24.699
big bro hug. Like if I were her, I walk in.
87
00:05:24.730 --> 00:05:26.750
First of all, I love the way she did it
88
00:05:26.769 --> 00:05:29.750
because it was very clear that she had decided on
89
00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:31.779
a game plan. And it's sort of, to me, it's
90
00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:35.459
set it set the tone for this idea that she
91
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.279
had a very clear idea of what she wanted to execute.
92
00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:43.009
And he really was like, what time's the debate? Yeah.
93
00:05:43.170 --> 00:05:45.370
Let me show up at eight and whatever happens, happens.
94
00:05:45.410 --> 00:05:48.209
So I like that it sort of set this idea
95
00:05:48.269 --> 00:05:52.550
that she was going to be intentional and purposeful throughout it.
96
00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:55.470
He wouldn't look at her for the entire debate.
97
00:05:55.649 --> 00:05:56.310
It was so weird.
98
00:05:56.610 --> 00:06:00.149
I thought that was super odd, but I can't remember-
99
00:06:00.589 --> 00:06:02.629
He did look at Biden a few times, but I
100
00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:04.980
think that was more like, is this dude all right?
101
00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.199
I never felt like he had that relationship with like
102
00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:10.600
Hillary Clinton. So you could say like, well, she's a strong,
103
00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:13.620
smart woman. So maybe he's intimidated by that. But with
104
00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:19.199
Hillary Clinton, like he followed her around like a looming shadow.
105
00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.269
I don't think he would have done that to Kamala Harris.
106
00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:27.730
I do think he's oddly kind of not sure what
107
00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:28.069
to do.
108
00:06:28.670 --> 00:06:29.550
He's intimidated.
109
00:06:29.709 --> 00:06:30.949
He can't be normal.
110
00:06:31.509 --> 00:06:31.750
Yeah.
111
00:06:31.850 --> 00:06:32.850
I don't know what to do.
112
00:06:33.089 --> 00:06:36.430
Well, that could be the title of his biography.
113
00:06:36.550 --> 00:06:37.550
I can't be normal.
114
00:06:37.589 --> 00:06:40.050
Donald Trump, I really can't be normal. I have a
115
00:06:40.329 --> 00:06:44.790
very difficult time being normal. Well, we've got two reporters
116
00:06:45.790 --> 00:06:48.189
that are actually covering these campaigns that are going to
117
00:06:48.209 --> 00:06:50.689
give the insight because we can all talk. I talk
118
00:06:50.709 --> 00:06:53.639
all the shit I want. I very rarely know what's
119
00:06:53.699 --> 00:06:56.000
actually going on with any of those. So our two
120
00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.180
guests today are reporters and we're going to get their thoughts. on, uh,
121
00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:00.949
what the hell happened. So let me jump, let me
122
00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:02.370
jump in on that and I'll see you guys on
123
00:07:02.389 --> 00:07:08.110
the other side. All right, everybody, we are, we are
124
00:07:08.189 --> 00:07:14.899
in post debate, uh, glow aura enjoyment. Uh, we are
125
00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.660
going to be joined by Ashley Parker, senior national political
126
00:07:17.699 --> 00:07:23.810
correspondent for the Washington Postman's covering, uh, elections, uh, won
127
00:07:23.889 --> 00:07:28.170
Pulitzer Prizes as a team covering elections. We've got David Graham,
128
00:07:28.189 --> 00:07:34.279
staff writer of The Atlantic, written about Harris and Trump
129
00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.800
and following these things very closely. Guys, thank you very
130
00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:39.339
much for joining us, David and Ashley. Of course.
131
00:07:39.459 --> 00:07:41.600
Yeah, thanks for having us.
132
00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.800
Let's talk about the debate. And I feel sorry for
133
00:07:45.699 --> 00:07:48.339
the national political reporters, the people that are following after us.
134
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:52.220
This may be the last event that we have. It
135
00:07:52.259 --> 00:07:55.819
may now be just 10 weeks of following people around
136
00:07:56.360 --> 00:08:03.160
on a bus. Have you interviewed both candidates extemporaneously? Have
137
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.819
you spent time with Trump, with Kamala Harris?
138
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.500
I have spent a tremendous amount of time with Donald Trump.
139
00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:12.670
I started- Ashley, I'm going to stop you right there.
140
00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.449
I hear the exhaustion and the pain in your voice.
141
00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:19.509
I see it in your demeanor changed when I said,
142
00:08:19.550 --> 00:08:22.980
have you spent time You said it in the way
143
00:08:23.019 --> 00:08:25.480
of someone that perhaps has been at the DMV for
144
00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.959
30 to 35 years. And there was a pain in
145
00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:29.899
your voice. I could feel it.
146
00:08:31.339 --> 00:08:36.149
I'm not going to weigh in. But I mean, I
147
00:08:36.169 --> 00:08:38.590
will just say I started covering, this was when I
148
00:08:38.629 --> 00:08:40.289
worked for the New York Times, but I started covering
149
00:08:40.330 --> 00:08:44.950
Donald Trump two days after poor, sad, curmudgeonly, but ultimately
150
00:08:45.049 --> 00:08:48.730
sweet Jeb Bush dropped out. And I have basically covered
151
00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:50.710
him in some capacity ever since.
152
00:08:52.220 --> 00:08:56.059
Imagine you start your presidential campaign with the high hopes
153
00:08:56.100 --> 00:09:00.340
of adding an exclamation point to your name. That's how
154
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.360
well you thought this. What punctuation should we use here?
155
00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:08.250
Question mark, period. Jeb Bush put an exclamation point next
156
00:09:08.259 --> 00:09:11.889
to his name on the posters. And two days after
157
00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:17.649
running into Trump, he had to leave. Why was Donald
158
00:09:17.669 --> 00:09:20.789
Trump so successful in sort of steamrolling all of the
159
00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.799
Republicans back in those days?
160
00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:27.320
I think, I mean, a couple of reasons. One, and
161
00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.600
this is why he's still fairly successful. A certain thing
162
00:09:30.620 --> 00:09:36.009
is I think shamelessness is his superpower. And he, covering
163
00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:39.769
previous candidates, right? We might do, if I covered Mitt Romney,
164
00:09:39.850 --> 00:09:42.029
you might do a fact check on Mitt Romney, something
165
00:09:42.070 --> 00:09:45.460
he's saying, and you say, Well, actually, Massachusetts wasn't always
166
00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.059
number one in job creation. You know, that year it
167
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.210
was tied with Texas or that other year it actually
168
00:09:50.250 --> 00:09:53.409
came in third. And Mitt Romney would then change what
169
00:09:53.450 --> 00:09:55.889
he was saying on the stump. Not because he cared
170
00:09:56.009 --> 00:09:59.870
that the Washington Post had given him four Pinocchios, though
171
00:09:59.889 --> 00:10:01.259
we think those noses matter.
172
00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:03.360
Solid, solid rating system.
173
00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:06.159
But because he believed he would pay a penalty with
174
00:10:06.220 --> 00:10:10.129
voters for seeming dishonest. And Trump sort of realized that
175
00:10:10.509 --> 00:10:13.649
that there would be no penalty with his base and
176
00:10:13.690 --> 00:10:16.090
his voters, that if he just repeated something enough and
177
00:10:16.149 --> 00:10:20.049
confidently enough and forcefully enough and shamelessly enough, that it
178
00:10:20.110 --> 00:10:22.860
could become a certain type of truth.
179
00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:26.440
That, I got to tell you, that's the confidence. But
180
00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:30.720
what was most surprising was Donald Trump immediately in the
181
00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:34.299
spin room, confidently saying, I don't think there's going to
182
00:10:34.340 --> 00:10:37.889
be another debate because I won this so, I believe
183
00:10:37.909 --> 00:10:41.200
the phrase was, tremendously. I believe he said he won
184
00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:46.379
it tremendously. And it was such a knockout that he
185
00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:48.480
didn't think, you know, he said the only people that
186
00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:52.590
asked for rematches are the losers. I've so clearly won it.
187
00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.950
Is that the process that he was going through? Sort
188
00:10:55.990 --> 00:10:59.129
of what Ashley was saying, which is I'm shameless. I
189
00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:00.669
know I got my ass kicked. I'm just going to
190
00:11:00.710 --> 00:11:03.269
run out there and go, wow, I'm awesome.
191
00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:05.950
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. You know, even his closest
192
00:11:06.009 --> 00:11:09.289
allies were saying, well, you know, he had a hard time.
193
00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:11.340
He was going against, it was three on one because
194
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.529
of the moderators. And you see Trump just being like, no,
195
00:11:13.549 --> 00:11:15.820
I won. I had that. I think that is very
196
00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:18.299
much the kind of bravado and the willingness to say
197
00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:20.440
whatever he feels like he's got to say.
198
00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.299
What about the Harris campaign? What was your feeling of
199
00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.139
how their team was reacting to it?
200
00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:30.419
I mean, I think they were already kind of floating.
201
00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:32.919
And then to receive the Taylor Swift endorsement on top
202
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.750
of that, Um, I don't think their spirits could have
203
00:11:35.769 --> 00:11:36.399
been a whole lot higher.
204
00:11:36.620 --> 00:11:39.600
Is that actually me? What is the Taylor Swift endorsement act?
205
00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:41.799
Like I knew it was a nice piece of pop
206
00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:46.320
culture and I know that she obviously has very dedicated fans, but, uh,
207
00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:48.600
is there any thought that there were Taylor Swift fans
208
00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.470
sort of in the Venn diagram that were not, you know,
209
00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:54.309
that she was going to say, you really should look
210
00:11:54.330 --> 00:11:57.049
at this, uh, Kamala Harris character and her fans would
211
00:11:57.070 --> 00:11:59.289
be like, I don't know. I've been really leaning Trump
212
00:11:59.350 --> 00:12:01.889
on this one. Like, is that a meaningful thing?
213
00:12:02.389 --> 00:12:05.470
I think maybe. And I think the reason is it
214
00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:07.710
turns people out. It's not about persuasion. It's about whether
215
00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:09.629
people will do it. And so, you know, she puts
216
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.220
in a link to voting registration website and the government said,
217
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.340
I think they'd gotten three or four hundred thousand hits
218
00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:19.500
on that site just from her Instagram post. So, you know,
219
00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:22.120
enough of those votes in swing states could make a difference.
220
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:23.960
Not because she's going to persuade anyone, but just because
221
00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:26.240
maybe if they were kind of on the fence about
222
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.730
whether to vote or feeling blasé. that'll get them fired up.
223
00:12:30.289 --> 00:12:35.460
I was struck during the debate by which subject areas
224
00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.419
the candidates were most confident in. It was very clear
225
00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:41.480
during the abortion part of the debate that Kamala Harris
226
00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:46.759
was feeling it on a visceral level, was able to deliver,
227
00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:50.960
I thought, maybe her best moment, maybe that in Ukraine,
228
00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:58.700
where she was confident, she was purposeful, she was visceral
229
00:12:59.259 --> 00:13:02.980
in her response. And I thought it put Trump back
230
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.539
on his heels. I thought Trump was most confident in
231
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:12.590
the warning for people's pets. Ashley, in your mind, what
232
00:13:12.610 --> 00:13:15.330
were the areas that you thought were most confident and
233
00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:15.990
least confident?
234
00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.080
Yeah, so I think you're absolutely right on abortion. It
235
00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:22.940
was interesting because the vice president, her first kind of
236
00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:25.639
broad answer, you could tell her voice was like a
237
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:29.000
little shaky, a little nervous. And then abortion came up
238
00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:32.440
right afterwards. She 100% hit her stride. And I feel
239
00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:35.870
like that sort of gave her the confidence and sort
240
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:38.470
of just the sense of grounding to proceed with that
241
00:13:38.529 --> 00:13:41.629
vibe throughout the debate. I mean, the other thing where
242
00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:43.830
I thought she was very confident and in talking to
243
00:13:43.870 --> 00:13:48.039
her team, this is something they practiced, they rehearsed. From
244
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:51.120
that opening handshake, right, which they described to me as
245
00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:52.610
a power move.
246
00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:58.610
Wait, so the handshake is everything is choreographed, like that
247
00:13:59.190 --> 00:14:01.129
you're going to walk out there and no matter what,
248
00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:03.889
you're going to him and you're hitting him with a handshake. Yes.
249
00:14:04.169 --> 00:14:07.129
I mean, their goal was to make sure, and this
250
00:14:07.149 --> 00:14:10.509
started before the debate, their goal, and it was borne
251
00:14:10.549 --> 00:14:12.799
out as successful. was to make sure that, as they
252
00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:15.159
put it, that Trump was triggered by the time he
253
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:17.590
walked on stage. So that started with they released an
254
00:14:17.750 --> 00:14:21.990
ad featuring former President Obama talking about crowd size on
255
00:14:22.029 --> 00:14:26.389
the morning of the debate. With Obama, right, doing that
256
00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:31.250
hand motion. They blanketed... They blanketed Philadelphia where the debate
257
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.299
was held with billboards and ads designed to troll Trump, right?
258
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.179
One was a crowd-sized one that featured a full Philadelphia
259
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.580
pretzel for Harris and then a piece, just a mere
260
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.700
piece of a Philadelphia pretzel that looks like a limp
261
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:48.610
pretzel for Trump, right?
262
00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:51.889
So the idea being as he's being driven in a
263
00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:54.490
van towards the venue, he's going to look at that
264
00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:59.120
and go, Limp pretzel, wait, what? No, I'm a full pretzel.
265
00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:02.490
Right, like limp pretzel, I have to abandon all self-discipline
266
00:15:02.549 --> 00:15:05.169
and control when I step on that debate stage. So then,
267
00:15:05.669 --> 00:15:09.070
and you could watch it from that, again, that opening handshake,
268
00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:13.230
walking over, getting in his space, introducing herself, pronouncing her
269
00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:14.409
name correctly.
270
00:15:15.210 --> 00:15:17.870
Then there was some- She literally was going up to
271
00:15:17.889 --> 00:15:21.429
him and trolling him with the pronunciation. This is unbelievable.
272
00:15:21.470 --> 00:15:24.710
I have to say, coming off of the NFL's first weekend,
273
00:15:25.169 --> 00:15:28.899
This is sounding so much like when you listen to
274
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:33.679
football analysts talking about schematics and a game plan for their.
275
00:15:33.970 --> 00:15:37.690
I mean, it is. We have a scripted first 15 plays.
276
00:15:38.330 --> 00:15:40.149
You're going to go in there. They have a weakness
277
00:15:40.210 --> 00:15:44.039
in the backfield. I mean, this is. It really feels
278
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.009
like a game. football game plan.
279
00:15:46.230 --> 00:15:48.029
And they had, I mean, I won't take you through
280
00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:50.029
all of them, but you could watch that debate step
281
00:15:50.070 --> 00:15:52.409
by step. They had these little Easter eggs, things she
282
00:15:52.450 --> 00:15:55.690
would say and do that they had practiced and believed
283
00:15:56.070 --> 00:15:58.450
that Trump, and they were almost always correct, would be
284
00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:02.759
unable to resist wasting time digressing into that. So a
285
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.179
very subtle one that people might not have noticed was
286
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:07.580
when she used, you know, there's a million analyses you
287
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.899
can pull on, but when she wanted to rebut his
288
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:13.539
economic plan, she did so by mentioning Wharton, which is,
289
00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.360
of course, where Trump famously went and takes a lot
290
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.289
of pride. And you saw him. He kind of rears
291
00:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.190
back and says, well, I went to the Wharton School.
292
00:16:22.570 --> 00:16:27.740
That's when she said the 19 Nobel Prize economists, including
293
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.600
ones from Wharton. He couldn't help himself.
294
00:16:30.620 --> 00:16:32.559
He couldn't help himself. That was the first one. That's
295
00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:35.019
very subtle for those of us who have been covering
296
00:16:35.070 --> 00:16:37.669
Trump since 2015. A more obvious one was when she
297
00:16:37.690 --> 00:16:39.909
invited people to watch his rallies.
298
00:16:39.929 --> 00:16:40.950
Sure, that. Right.
299
00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:43.950
The crowd size says people are leaving out of boredom. First,
300
00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:46.090
he responded to that- It was.
301
00:16:46.029 --> 00:16:48.629
The first time you saw his eyes went wide.
302
00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:51.750
Yes, you saw the eyebrows went up, the eyes went wide.
303
00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:55.919
He adopted that like 10,000 foot gaze scowl. Right, right, right.
304
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.139
And it was that thing that then led him into
305
00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:02.720
the now most viral digression about our nation's cats and dogs.
306
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.720
Which by the way, as a pet owner, as somebody myself,
307
00:17:08.710 --> 00:17:11.329
I was watching with my dog and there was a
308
00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:13.049
lot of, I could see a lot of fear. That's
309
00:17:13.089 --> 00:17:14.970
actually been my favorite thing from the, If you go
310
00:17:15.049 --> 00:17:17.230
on like a TikTok or an Instagram, they're putting out
311
00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:20.140
these reels of Donald Trump saying that. And it's just
312
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.680
reaction shots of pets who are looking unbelievably frightened. David,
313
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.900
you were kind of writing more about Trump during all this.
314
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:33.559
Did they have a similar Belichick-like game plan as they
315
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.630
walked in down to, I mean, everybody talks about his
316
00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:39.730
game planning as, you know, he's ready for anything. Did
317
00:17:39.769 --> 00:17:41.670
they do any of that? Right.
318
00:17:41.690 --> 00:17:43.670
They say, you know, he's been preparing for this his
319
00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:47.809
whole life. And while the Harris campaign was letting it
320
00:17:47.829 --> 00:17:49.799
be known that she had spent all this time and
321
00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:53.369
talking about who was doing the prep and how there's
322
00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:56.269
an aide dressed up like Trump in a boxy suit
323
00:17:56.289 --> 00:17:57.170
with a whole nine yards.
324
00:17:57.690 --> 00:17:59.039
They went method. They had to go method.
325
00:17:59.059 --> 00:18:00.859
Yeah, they totally went method. And they wanted people to
326
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.980
know they were going method. Yeah, sure. Trump is blustering about, oh,
327
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:06.599
I don't need to prep. And it was interesting to see,
328
00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:10.259
you could hear his allies, some of them saying, oh,
329
00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:11.700
he's going to be fine. And then other people a
330
00:18:11.769 --> 00:18:14.529
little bit nervous about that. And the moment that he
331
00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:17.250
started to get off track, the moment we started hearing
332
00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:19.609
about the cats and dogs, then you see the recriminations.
333
00:18:20.069 --> 00:18:22.150
And you see people saying, you know, is it really
334
00:18:22.190 --> 00:18:24.589
too much to ask him to prepare? And what we've
335
00:18:24.609 --> 00:18:26.990
seen from a decade of this is it is too
336
00:18:27.009 --> 00:18:29.670
much to ask him to prepare. And if Joe Biden
337
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.940
collapses on stage, that works for him. But if Joe
338
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.299
Biden doesn't collapse on stage, then he tends to kind
339
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:35.700
of struggle.
340
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.200
Right. I thought he did have a good first, I thought,
341
00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:42.380
two and a half to three minutes. I thought then
342
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.420
as it, you know, his preparation for that early two
343
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.250
and a half to three minutes, I thought, Worked out
344
00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:49.869
very nicely. But then you could see he started to
345
00:18:49.910 --> 00:18:54.259
get distracted and things started to collapse and fall apart. Okay.
346
00:18:55.099 --> 00:19:02.240
We got to take a quick break. Mint Mobile. I
347
00:19:02.259 --> 00:19:04.039
don't know what you want out of a phone company.
348
00:19:04.339 --> 00:19:06.279
What I want out of a phone company is deliver
349
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:10.130
me a good product for less and don't bother me.
350
00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:14.750
Don't bother me with the like, oh, have you heard
351
00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:18.819
about our new program? You can upgrade to it. It'll
352
00:19:18.859 --> 00:19:21.880
just cost you a lot more. And then they like
353
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.400
call you a bunch on their own phone. Think about that.
354
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.420
Think about the diabolical mind games that phone companies are
355
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:33.140
playing by like locking you into an expensive phone program
356
00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:36.740
and then using the very item that they sold you
357
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:42.279
to contact you about paying more for some ridiculous upgrade
358
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:46.190
that's not even really an upgrade. Oh, they're dipole but
359
00:19:46.210 --> 00:19:48.829
not mint mobile mint mobile plan 15 bucks a month
360
00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:55.859
15 bucks a month what is it 1992 15 bucks
361
00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:58.480
a month high speed data unlimited talk and text delivered
362
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.500
on the nation's largest 5g network to get your new
363
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:02.380
wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month go to
364
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:08.400
mint mobile.com slash tws that's mint mobile.com slash tws Got
365
00:20:08.420 --> 00:20:12.720
your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com
366
00:20:12.740 --> 00:20:18.400
slash TWS. That's it. There's no catch. Upfront payments of
367
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.160
$ 45 for three months, $ 90 for six months, or $ 180
368
00:20:21.099 --> 00:20:25.509
for 12 months. Plan required. $ 15 per month equivalent. Taxes
369
00:20:25.529 --> 00:20:28.910
and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes.
370
00:20:29.150 --> 00:20:31.430
May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20
371
00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:36.369
gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies.
372
00:20:36.710 --> 00:20:47.619
See mintmobile.com. I really hope they speed that up. We're back.
373
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.539
I want to talk about the people around them and
374
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.299
how that manifests for the candidate's psyche. And I want
375
00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:02.589
to start with Trump. My sense of him is, look,
376
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.019
A monarchy makes a lot of sense to him. He
377
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.599
runs the Trump organization. He doesn't even run, it's not
378
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.940
a public company. He doesn't have a board of directors.
379
00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:14.359
It's Donald Trump. When he hosted The Apprentice, my favorite
380
00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:17.829
part of The Apprentice is after he mediated a dispute
381
00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:20.910
between Meatloaf and Gary Busey, you know, and the end
382
00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:23.829
and Busey had to leave and Meatloaf was going to stay.
383
00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:26.509
There was always two people next to him at the table.
384
00:21:26.789 --> 00:21:29.470
There was always that last coda of the end of
385
00:21:29.529 --> 00:21:32.630
The Apprentice. And it was either you know, Ivanka or
386
00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:35.890
that dude George or somebody else. And he would go, oh,
387
00:21:36.269 --> 00:21:38.849
that was tough. And they would go, you made the right,
388
00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:41.970
you made the good call, boss. Well done. That was,
389
00:21:42.089 --> 00:21:45.789
you couldn't have done anything else. Is that the vibe
390
00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:49.809
around him? Are there people there who tell him the truth?
391
00:21:50.349 --> 00:21:55.670
Or is he bathed in the kind of you are
392
00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:59.970
our little prince world that seems like has been following
393
00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:01.029
him his entire life?
394
00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:03.559
Yeah, he gets a lot of that. I mean, there
395
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.099
are people who try to tell him the truth. And
396
00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:07.400
what happens is they tend to fall out of favor.
397
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.630
They don't hang around long, or as is the case
398
00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:12.589
with a lot of Trump people, they sort of cycle through.
399
00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:16.289
So they come back again, but they don't stay long.
400
00:22:16.329 --> 00:22:18.589
And I think, you know, what you're describing of his
401
00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:21.089
experience at the Trump organization has been borne out in
402
00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:23.210
how he runs campaigns. And it was how he was
403
00:22:23.269 --> 00:22:26.690
president too. I mean, you'd see him frustrated that he
404
00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:30.279
couldn't just do things unilaterally. Like, He had not watched
405
00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:32.180
the schoolhouse rock and he couldn't believe that he couldn't
406
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.750
just do things with the power of the presidency. And
407
00:22:34.789 --> 00:22:36.650
that's just his attitude is, you know, he knows best
408
00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:38.289
and he wants to do it his way.
409
00:22:38.509 --> 00:22:41.170
Is that in some ways comforting in that maybe his
410
00:22:41.230 --> 00:22:47.410
authoritarianism isn't malevolent? It's born of spoiledness. It's born of
411
00:22:47.650 --> 00:22:52.690
a more adolescent view based on being the golden child. No.
412
00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:52.769
No.
413
00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:58.589
I think you're right, but I don't think it's comforting. David,
414
00:22:58.609 --> 00:23:00.769
take your time with this. You don't have to answer
415
00:23:00.789 --> 00:23:01.299
right away.
416
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:03.960
I think the result is the same, unfortunately.
417
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:09.799
Right. So the anger is real. The malevolence is real.
418
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:11.259
Yeah.
419
00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:13.220
Oh, boy. For those of you who are on the podcast,
420
00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:19.140
David is just nodding enthusiastically about that. Ashley, what about
421
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:23.750
the Harris campaign? Can she be told the truth? Is
422
00:23:23.869 --> 00:23:26.250
she surrounded, you know, how much of this, I'm always
423
00:23:26.309 --> 00:23:32.279
struck by how insulated and isolated these politicians are.
424
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.240
So a couple of things. It's different from the Trump campaign,
425
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:38.400
first of all, because she, on the one hand, she
426
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:42.099
has cycled and churned through a tremendous amount of staff
427
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.740
going back to her days in California, to the Senate,
428
00:23:44.849 --> 00:23:47.890
to the campaign, to the vice presidency, which is normally
429
00:23:47.930 --> 00:23:51.230
an indictment of someone's management style. But all of that staff,
430
00:23:51.289 --> 00:23:53.740
and this is something she has done very deliberately. is
431
00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:57.250
she is elevated and surrounded herself by women, by people
432
00:23:57.269 --> 00:24:00.690
of color, by women of color. So her staff just
433
00:24:01.130 --> 00:24:05.309
look like they look different than Trump's staff. And they
434
00:24:05.349 --> 00:24:08.910
bring different perspectives and life experiences. So that's one thing.
435
00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:12.059
The second is recently after she moved to the top
436
00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:15.259
of the ticket, a small handful, but a significant handful
437
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.180
of sort of top people from Obama world and one
438
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.279
from Clinton world came in, right? So David Plouffe.
439
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.710
Obama world and Clinton world. They sound like closed down
440
00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:28.930
amusement parks where they, oh, they came in, there was
441
00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:31.609
Obama world. It was opened up in Nashville for a while,
442
00:24:31.650 --> 00:24:34.730
but then it closed down. So she brings on people
443
00:24:35.009 --> 00:24:38.509
who have run or have been involved in other campaigns
444
00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:39.950
for Democratic leaders.
445
00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:42.009
Yeah, and not just that. I mean, the thing that's
446
00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:45.230
striking to me, especially about the Obama people, and she
447
00:24:45.250 --> 00:24:48.690
brought in Jennifer Palmieri, who was key in Hillary Clinton's
448
00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:51.839
unsuccessful campaign. is these are people who have done two
449
00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:55.380
things successfully that she will likely need to do successfully
450
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.950
to win. And it's sort of the question of, can
451
00:24:56.970 --> 00:24:59.269
they recreate that magic? One is they were able to
452
00:24:59.390 --> 00:25:04.730
harness Obama's sort of authentic excitement and enthusiasm into actually
453
00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:08.589
like getting information from voters and mobilizing that to the polls.
454
00:25:08.630 --> 00:25:11.589
That's something she'll need to do. And the other thing
455
00:25:11.750 --> 00:25:14.960
is Obama and Clinton basically, took a very different approach
456
00:25:15.049 --> 00:25:18.589
and got a very different electoral outcome. But Obama sort
457
00:25:18.609 --> 00:25:22.950
of did not make race the historic nature of his candidacy,
458
00:25:23.289 --> 00:25:24.609
the centerpiece.
459
00:25:24.069 --> 00:25:25.309
Of his- Let that speak for itself.
460
00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:27.029
Yeah, his view is people would look at him and
461
00:25:27.069 --> 00:25:29.210
understand he was a Black guy, right? And so he
462
00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:31.069
didn't need to constantly talk about it. And he talked
463
00:25:31.109 --> 00:25:33.589
about race in a way that to many Americans felt
464
00:25:33.710 --> 00:25:38.549
inclusive and inspiring. And that's also something you're seeing Kamala
465
00:25:38.589 --> 00:25:41.750
Harris doing with her historic candidacy.
466
00:25:42.269 --> 00:25:45.579
David, you- Is it in your mind, you know, we
467
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.960
talk about, boy, that was a terrible night for Trump.
468
00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:50.380
He's going to have to do something. Does he have
469
00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:54.579
to do something? In some measure, the day he came
470
00:25:54.619 --> 00:25:57.680
down the golden escalator and said, I think most Mexicans
471
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.829
are rapists, but sometimes they send some good people. From
472
00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:05.230
that moment on, it became somewhat clear this was an
473
00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:09.630
antibiotic resistant candidate. The normal things that would take out
474
00:26:10.289 --> 00:26:14.609
a candidate, have no idea. Oh, the Access Hollywood tape
475
00:26:14.670 --> 00:26:18.130
and all those different things. Well, that was 2016. He's
476
00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:22.109
been through more of this than anybody. It doesn't seem
477
00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:27.099
as though these moments that would be disqualifying. I mean, honestly,
478
00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:31.160
in any other political campaign, in any other environment, if
479
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:35.700
you stood on the stage, true or not, and just shouted,
480
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:41.829
immigrants are eating dogs and people's pets. I mean, Howard
481
00:26:41.849 --> 00:26:45.289
Dean was a little loud with a scream. Michael Dukakis
482
00:26:45.730 --> 00:26:52.269
somewhat answered a question intemperately. Like, they'd be done. It
483
00:26:52.369 --> 00:26:56.880
doesn't seem to have any impact in any way, shape,
484
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.980
or form on his political fortune. Yeah.
485
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.599
I mean, the amazing thing about him is just how
486
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:07.180
consistent his support is. He's always there in the mid 40%.
487
00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:09.210
When he's winning, when he's losing, it just doesn't move
488
00:27:09.250 --> 00:27:11.079
no matter what he does. And I don't think we've
489
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.720
ever seen anyone like that in American politics who has
490
00:27:14.769 --> 00:27:18.130
such stable approval. He can't get above 50% and he
491
00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:20.910
can't fall below 40. So it doesn't matter.
492
00:27:20.730 --> 00:27:23.450
What he does. But even within that stable approval, now
493
00:27:23.490 --> 00:27:26.450
they talk about he's picking up more support in the
494
00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:29.789
black community or the Hispanic community, but he's losing more
495
00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:35.210
support in women. There are groups that move in and out,
496
00:27:35.549 --> 00:27:44.150
but he is consistently– Right. And it seems to matter not.
497
00:27:44.569 --> 00:27:47.450
I think one thing we're seeing this campaign from Democrats
498
00:27:47.549 --> 00:27:49.799
is a realization, and it took a long time for
499
00:27:49.819 --> 00:27:51.880
them to get to this, that there's not going to
500
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.400
be like the moment or the gaffe that does in Trump.
501
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.200
I think there was always this hope like, well, you know,
502
00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:58.440
he's going to do it this time. And they seem
503
00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:00.259
to have realized that just it's not a thing.
504
00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:04.640
My favorite thing about Democrats. My favorite thing about Democrats
505
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.380
was that he got indicted. Now we've got him. Like
506
00:28:08.779 --> 00:28:11.000
there's all these things that, oh, there was always that
507
00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:15.180
moment where like, as soon as that Mueller report comes out, goodbye,
508
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:20.240
Donald Trump. Like at each turn, it always seems like
509
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.960
this is the conclusive moment. Look, he's on tape saying,
510
00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:27.519
I want Putin to win because I love him. And
511
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.839
just everybody's like, oh, that'll do it. None of it
512
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:32.019
does it. Right.
513
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:32.660
Exactly.
514
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.339
And so he, what pressure does he feel? What does
515
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.599
he think he has to do?
516
00:28:38.299 --> 00:28:39.940
I think he thinks he has to turn out the base.
517
00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:44.640
He consistently does not do things that would look like outreach.
518
00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:47.720
And he, you know, people make fun of his kind
519
00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:52.029
of silent majority rhetoric as being out of touch and
520
00:28:52.049 --> 00:28:55.630
being like Nixonian. But that doesn't mean he doesn't believe it.
521
00:28:55.710 --> 00:28:57.170
For all the things he will say that he doesn't believe,
522
00:28:57.190 --> 00:29:00.210
I think he really thinks that if everyone goes to win.
523
00:29:00.450 --> 00:29:03.740
He should believe it because they always underestimate him in polls.
524
00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:07.619
And when the elections come out, he always has, you know,
525
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.279
that that silent base. I wouldn't call them the majority,
526
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:13.640
but they're certainly there.
527
00:29:13.779 --> 00:29:15.079
I mean, I think the reason he shouldn't believe it
528
00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:18.829
is in 2016, he won less of the vote than
529
00:29:18.869 --> 00:29:21.690
Hillary Clinton. In 2018, when he made himself the center
530
00:29:21.710 --> 00:29:25.829
of their campaign, Republicans did poorly. In 2020, he lost.
531
00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:28.789
In 2022, when he made himself the center of the campaign, again,
532
00:29:28.829 --> 00:29:31.289
Republicans did poorly. So there's evidence for it, but he
533
00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:33.150
still is really, he believes it.
534
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:33.680
Right.
535
00:29:33.700 --> 00:29:36.640
What's fascinating, I never understood. In addition to the belief
536
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:39.150
that Donald Trump would win and become presidential, there was
537
00:29:39.230 --> 00:29:42.019
also this belief that he could win and move to
538
00:29:42.059 --> 00:29:44.740
the center, which seemed a little more legitimate because he.
539
00:29:44.740 --> 00:29:47.299
Had- Oh, dear God. How many times has Van Jones
540
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:52.980
given you that? Dewey-eyed CNN, I believe Donald Trump today
541
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.750
has become the unifier for, like, There's always that moment
542
00:29:56.789 --> 00:29:59.190
where somebody's like, he's really different now. Never.
543
00:29:59.369 --> 00:30:04.660
But what is fascinating is that his base is immovable.
544
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.900
He is almost certainly never going to lose them. And
545
00:30:07.940 --> 00:30:10.519
so there is this world where he could maybe bring
546
00:30:10.579 --> 00:30:12.960
them along a little bit. But since covering him, there's
547
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.730
all these moments. And so the second thing is Donald Trump,
548
00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:17.769
the way to understand him, or one way, is he's
549
00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:21.730
always trying to win, like– the minute, the hour, the day,
550
00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:24.210
the person directly in front of him. This is not
551
00:30:24.269 --> 00:30:28.019
like four-dimensional chess. So people would never understand. Well, why
552
00:30:28.059 --> 00:30:30.180
when he was talking to the dreamers, did he say,
553
00:30:30.619 --> 00:30:33.579
you guys are wonderful valedictorians. Of course, you should stay
554
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:35.440
in the country. And then 10 minutes later, when they
555
00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:37.960
brought in a group of sheriffs, was he like, the
556
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.059
dreamers are just out in the outer awful. Let's round
557
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.619
them up and send them back. It makes no sense,
558
00:30:42.700 --> 00:30:45.220
but he's always trying to win the people in front
559
00:30:45.259 --> 00:30:47.299
of him. But when he is faced with those two things,
560
00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:49.579
as we've seen on, say, abortion, where he's been all
561
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:54.579
over the map, he will always, always ultimately retreat back
562
00:30:54.740 --> 00:30:57.420
to what his far right base wants. He'll move to
563
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.250
the middle. The right wing echo chamber will freak out
564
00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:03.410
at him and he will ultimately come down on their side.
565
00:31:04.029 --> 00:31:06.890
Does he though, you know, so let's talk about that.
566
00:31:06.990 --> 00:31:09.309
Is that a purposeful move? You know, is it the
567
00:31:09.430 --> 00:31:14.460
idea that he so understands how loyal his base is
568
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.400
that he can stand up on a debate stage and say,
569
00:31:17.420 --> 00:31:23.920
I actually created IVF. I will personally inseminate any woman
570
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.200
with sperm that wants it. That's how much I believe
571
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:31.859
in IVF. I love it. Does he do that because
572
00:31:31.900 --> 00:31:35.779
he thinks, I've delivered so well for my base. They'll
573
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.759
never leave me. I can say whatever I want.
574
00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:40.890
No, because then he freaks.
575
00:31:43.990 --> 00:31:46.490
So this, this, even that's not strategic.
576
00:31:46.670 --> 00:31:49.470
Because then he freaks out, right? Like he said something
577
00:31:49.549 --> 00:31:51.470
on the Florida abortion rule. He thought it should be
578
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.380
longer than six weeks.
579
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:54.339
Six weeks is too short.
580
00:31:54.460 --> 00:31:55.380
Right. Six weeks is too short.
581
00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:57.539
Then his base flipped out and then he came out
582
00:31:57.579 --> 00:31:59.680
and said, well, actually I am going to vote. That
583
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.059
seems very reasonable.
584
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:05.039
Right. I think it's interesting that, you know, look, what
585
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:09.309
has been the Trump or far-right kryptonite, it would seem
586
00:32:09.349 --> 00:32:12.930
to me, is the court system. So anybody can say
587
00:32:13.009 --> 00:32:18.569
anything about anything on the radio or on Fox News
588
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:21.839
other than the false claims about Dominion and getting sued.
589
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.140
But it's very clear that when they talk about, oh,
590
00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:28.119
the fraudulent voting and there were so many illegal immigrants,
591
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:29.839
and then when they go to court, they get thrown
592
00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:32.519
out because they have no proof and they get laughed out.
593
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:37.650
I do think her style as a prosecutor, Kamala Harris,
594
00:32:38.430 --> 00:32:41.230
in some ways embodies a little bit of that kryptonite.
595
00:32:42.029 --> 00:32:46.750
And I thought in the debate, she could even do
596
00:32:46.829 --> 00:32:49.009
more of it in the way I was struck that,
597
00:32:50.029 --> 00:32:53.210
especially when talking about the economy, when she talked about abortion,
598
00:32:53.230 --> 00:32:55.930
she took that prosecutorial style. When she talked about the economy,
599
00:32:55.970 --> 00:32:59.849
she didn't. Ashley, is that because they lack the confidence
600
00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:04.450
in that narrative or they hadn't thought through that litigation yet?
601
00:33:05.410 --> 00:33:06.130
I mean, the.
602
00:33:06.089 --> 00:33:10.930
Economy is an incredibly tricky issue for the Biden-Harris administration
603
00:33:11.069 --> 00:33:12.230
because there's a lot of economic.
604
00:33:14.230 --> 00:33:17.549
Indicators, right? If you're like pointing to these tangible things,
605
00:33:17.589 --> 00:33:21.309
you can argue that the economy has improved under their administration, uh,
606
00:33:21.369 --> 00:33:24.640
versus former president Trump, but the things that people actually
607
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.240
feel right, which they vote on, which is like, what
608
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.259
are interest rates and can you afford to buy a
609
00:33:29.299 --> 00:33:31.200
new house? Or do your three kids still have to
610
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.779
share a bedroom? And what is the, I mean, this
611
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:35.119
sounds cliche, but what is the cost of eggs and milk?
612
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.609
And when you're driving, you know, I had someone in
613
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.589
the Biden administration to say every single gas station, um,
614
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.940
with the cost of gas is a billboard that hurts
615
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.609
us when you're driving. Those things have not changed yet, right?
616
00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:49.450
Because they're lagging.
617
00:33:49.470 --> 00:33:52.470
Well, the gas certainly has. I mean, the billboards for
618
00:33:52.509 --> 00:33:52.890
that has.
619
00:33:53.430 --> 00:33:57.049
But sort of, again, like the vibes, the feel and
620
00:33:57.069 --> 00:34:00.349
the sense, people feel that things felt better under Trump.
621
00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:04.410
And so there's something incredibly insulting to voters who are
622
00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:07.000
stressed about money or stretched to get to the end
623
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:10.460
of the month. to hear Harris saying things are fantastic now.
624
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:12.639
So it's hard to prosecute that case.
625
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:26.329
All right, we'll be right back. We're back. So let me,
626
00:34:26.769 --> 00:34:28.949
I think this is a great place for us to
627
00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:30.630
talk about a little bit, because I think this talks
628
00:34:30.690 --> 00:34:35.429
to how you just described it, Ashley, sounds perfectly reasonable
629
00:34:35.449 --> 00:34:39.260
to me. And I don't understand why a candidate feels
630
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:43.900
that at least that beginning framing is something that they
631
00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:46.800
are not allowed to do. You know, that they're not
632
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.500
allowed to say, look, the economy is incredibly complex. I
633
00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:53.880
think we've made some strides in the right direction through
634
00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:55.920
the pandemic. Let me walk you through what some of
635
00:34:55.940 --> 00:34:58.820
those decisions were. I know that if you're at home
636
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.139
and it doesn't feel that way to you, you know,
637
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:04.739
the economy is very personal to people. Why can't that
638
00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:07.920
be the discussion? Instead of, are you better off than
639
00:35:07.940 --> 00:35:10.820
you were four years ago? And the first thing is,
640
00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:14.940
I'm going to give everyone $ 6, 000 for childcare. And you're like, wait,
641
00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:19.639
what just happened? David, why can't candidates, and I thought
642
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.909
this was a real issue during the pandemic with our
643
00:35:22.949 --> 00:35:28.349
healthcare officials, why can't they trust us enough to talk
644
00:35:28.389 --> 00:35:32.210
to us like human beings in those areas where they
645
00:35:32.309 --> 00:35:35.590
feel like it's not completely black and white?
646
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:39.900
The people who they're talking to, they think are not
647
00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:43.530
the most sophisticated voters. And I think they are probably right.
648
00:35:43.699 --> 00:35:45.889
Undecided voters are not the people who are paying close attention.
649
00:35:46.889 --> 00:35:48.610
Some of them may have really nuanced views, but a
650
00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:51.340
lot of them don't. And so there's a certain amount of,
651
00:35:52.809 --> 00:35:55.090
they're pandering to the lowest common denominator and they feel
652
00:35:55.110 --> 00:35:57.389
like they can't get nuanced.
653
00:35:58.110 --> 00:36:00.670
It's not that they're dumb or that the Harris campaign
654
00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:02.889
thinks they're dumb, but they do understand that this is
655
00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:06.730
a group of voters who is not particularly tuned into politics, right?
656
00:36:06.769 --> 00:36:09.489
They're not paying a ton of attention. They don't really,
657
00:36:09.869 --> 00:36:12.010
they have other things on their mind, including the cost
658
00:36:12.050 --> 00:36:14.590
of groceries, right? Like they're gonna tune in at the
659
00:36:14.750 --> 00:36:17.170
very end of the election. They're also, and this is
660
00:36:17.230 --> 00:36:20.519
kind of fascinating, one of the most skeptical groups of voters.
661
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:22.820
I was talking to a Democratic strategist who said, when
662
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:27.280
we do focus groups with swing voters, and I say, well,
663
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.150
what if I told you that Donald Trump appointed the
664
00:36:30.710 --> 00:36:33.530
three most conservative justices who helped overturn Roe v.
665
00:36:33.570 --> 00:36:33.789
Wade?
666
00:36:33.809 --> 00:36:35.590
Would that change your view of him? And the first
667
00:36:35.610 --> 00:36:38.369
thing out of these voters' mouths is like, well, if
668
00:36:38.409 --> 00:36:40.250
that's true, I'm going to have to go home and
669
00:36:40.269 --> 00:36:42.309
Google it, right? So there are also.
670
00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:43.559
Dear God.
671
00:36:43.699 --> 00:36:47.599
So it's a group of voters who are very distrustful
672
00:36:47.739 --> 00:36:51.360
of institutions, of political parties, of the media. So that
673
00:36:51.429 --> 00:36:53.429
is all part of the discussion of how do we
674
00:36:53.469 --> 00:36:55.409
message to them? How do we win them over? When
675
00:36:55.429 --> 00:36:57.130
do we win them over? When do we hit them
676
00:36:57.150 --> 00:36:59.050
with this message? When do we just get them to
677
00:36:59.150 --> 00:37:04.269
trust that we're someone they should consider? That's absolutely all
678
00:37:04.289 --> 00:37:05.150
part of the discussion.
679
00:37:05.710 --> 00:37:08.409
See, this is the most fascinating thing. I'm so struck by...
680
00:37:10.030 --> 00:37:12.110
Every debate and all the things, you know, we all
681
00:37:12.130 --> 00:37:15.349
have kind of now a boilerplate format that we go through.
682
00:37:15.389 --> 00:37:18.429
There's the debate. Then we go to the pundits. And
683
00:37:18.469 --> 00:37:20.949
then immediately you go to and now we've got our
684
00:37:21.010 --> 00:37:23.510
own pollster and he's with a group of undecided voters
685
00:37:23.829 --> 00:37:26.030
and they do that. And that always struck me as
686
00:37:26.690 --> 00:37:31.110
one of the most ridiculous exercises in nothingness that I
687
00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:33.699
have ever seen in my life. Well, I listened to it.
688
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:36.019
How many of you now are for Kamala Harris? Oh,
689
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:39.570
I whatever we just watched. Sure, that's fine. aren't we
690
00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:44.460
infusing that undecided group of voters as an idea that
691
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:50.559
they've been vetted for their indecision? Whereas like half the
692
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:54.170
time it's political operatives just standing there or the same
693
00:37:54.230 --> 00:37:59.210
person on the panel every four years. You know, there's
694
00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:02.110
a certain, when you put somebody on a news channel,
695
00:38:02.590 --> 00:38:07.000
there's a sense that that has been vetted. And when
696
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.829
you really drill down into it, It doesn't seem that
697
00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:14.289
way at all. Ashley, is there any value in those
698
00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:17.849
kinds of theatrical moments with the panels?
699
00:38:18.690 --> 00:38:22.190
So I think there's tremendous value in focus groups. Is
700
00:38:22.230 --> 00:38:25.690
there value in those TV focus groups immediately after debates
701
00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:29.000
with undecided voters? And like also let's just pause like
702
00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:32.000
what does it actually mean to be undecided in the
703
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:35.340
year of our Lord 2024 when your choices, regardless of
704
00:38:35.389 --> 00:38:40.389
what you think, like are so diametrically opposite that like
705
00:38:40.889 --> 00:38:44.190
like you're just truly like. it's sort of like an
706
00:38:44.230 --> 00:38:47.150
existential question of like, how does this even happen? But
707
00:38:47.190 --> 00:38:50.610
focus groups in general are incredibly valuable and insightful. And
708
00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:53.650
whenever anyone lets me sit in on one, I always
709
00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:54.090
do so.
710
00:38:54.530 --> 00:38:56.530
What is the difference between one that you've seen on
711
00:38:56.570 --> 00:38:58.210
TV and one that you've sat in on?
712
00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:02.969
So often ones, you know, campaigns and these groups are
713
00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:05.530
running them for different things. Like they're not trying to
714
00:39:05.550 --> 00:39:07.980
find out who, after this debate, who are you going
715
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.099
to vote for? You know, they're trying to find out like,
716
00:39:10.579 --> 00:39:12.900
How do you feel about these issues, for instance, and
717
00:39:13.059 --> 00:39:16.760
what might be a compelling message, right? So one thing
718
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.570
I think of a Democratic strategist, I was not in
719
00:39:18.590 --> 00:39:20.570
this group, but he told me, he said they were
720
00:39:20.590 --> 00:39:22.289
talking to some voters and they said, you know, let's
721
00:39:22.329 --> 00:39:25.030
say Kamala Harris comes to your town and you get
722
00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:27.070
to do an activity. You get to bring her and
723
00:39:27.130 --> 00:39:29.369
show her something in your town. What would you show her?
724
00:39:29.389 --> 00:39:29.809
Right.
725
00:39:30.099 --> 00:39:32.469
A voter said- Oh, it's like a bachelorette hometown.
726
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:33.139
Yes.
727
00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:36.780
Oh, that's lovely. So I'm going to take them to
728
00:39:36.820 --> 00:39:38.360
meet my family and then we're going to go to
729
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:39.380
the custard shop.
730
00:39:39.739 --> 00:39:43.860
Right. But this voter said, I would bring her to
731
00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:45.719
work with me. I would bring her to my first
732
00:39:45.789 --> 00:39:48.630
job and then I would bring her to my second job, right?
733
00:39:48.670 --> 00:39:50.510
We would take the three buses it takes to get
734
00:39:50.550 --> 00:39:53.150
from my first job to my second job because I
735
00:39:53.230 --> 00:39:56.349
want her to understand how hard I am working and
736
00:39:56.409 --> 00:40:00.599
how I am still barely surviving. So that is kind
737
00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:03.920
of relevant and useful information of where voters are and
738
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:06.019
what they need from the candidates in their lives.
739
00:40:07.300 --> 00:40:11.090
You know, for me, it's shocking that that's what it
740
00:40:11.130 --> 00:40:15.010
would take for a candidate to understand what people's working
741
00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:18.489
lives are like. The idea that that would be revelatory
742
00:40:19.530 --> 00:40:24.760
speaks almost more to how insulated politicians are from the
743
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.400
day-to-day lives of their constituents. I mean, that's what I,
744
00:40:27.699 --> 00:40:30.780
what I seem to have learned from my time in
745
00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:39.570
Washington is how unbelievably eccentric the culture of Washington is
746
00:40:40.269 --> 00:40:45.170
and how easily it sets up barriers between the people
747
00:40:45.230 --> 00:40:47.869
you represent and the culture of the town that you
748
00:40:47.889 --> 00:40:52.090
live in. Washington runs on a completely different currency than
749
00:40:52.130 --> 00:40:54.380
the rest of the world. Let me ask you both then,
750
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:59.809
having experienced these campaigns, to you, Do you feel the
751
00:40:59.869 --> 00:41:03.070
disconnect that candidates have with the constituents or in the country?
752
00:41:03.849 --> 00:41:08.659
And for your experiences, what has struck you as the
753
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:12.800
biggest disconnect between Washington in general and the country at large?
754
00:41:13.820 --> 00:41:17.130
I'll start because I can double advocate it. Thank you.
755
00:41:18.019 --> 00:41:21.159
Before Trump was even like the word on people's tongues
756
00:41:21.539 --> 00:41:25.440
as a politician, I did a road trip in like
757
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:30.449
2014 driving like the old route. 60 or 66 out
758
00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:32.469
to Indianapolis is where I flew home. And it was
759
00:41:32.489 --> 00:41:35.030
just talking to voters. It was talking to like hundreds
760
00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:38.050
upon hundreds of voters. And the thing I picked up,
761
00:41:38.070 --> 00:41:40.150
because again, it's always good to talk to voters, was
762
00:41:40.190 --> 00:41:45.780
the sense that like these people, Democrats, Republicans, whoever, were furious, right?
763
00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:47.900
Like you would go to these houses and they all had,
764
00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:50.000
I was with a photographer who noticed this, like visually
765
00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:52.780
it wasn't me. They all had like bits of Americana, right?
766
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.539
Like flags and things like that, um, on house and
767
00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:58.969
a lot of houses that, you know, maybe needed like
768
00:41:59.030 --> 00:42:02.050
a new code. We're kind of crumbling. Right. Um, and they,
769
00:42:02.090 --> 00:42:05.250
what they were furious was, and what they said was, look,
770
00:42:05.389 --> 00:42:06.530
I did everything right.
771
00:42:06.690 --> 00:42:06.909
Right.
772
00:42:06.989 --> 00:42:09.190
Like I got a job. I worked nine to five.
773
00:42:09.269 --> 00:42:11.510
I had a pension. Um, I moved to this district
774
00:42:11.550 --> 00:42:13.550
to go to the right school. I bought a house
775
00:42:13.670 --> 00:42:15.989
that my bank told me I could buy, right. That
776
00:42:16.010 --> 00:42:18.699
it would be irresponsible for me not to buy. Now, look,
777
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:22.519
every single house on my block is foreclosed. Um, And
778
00:42:22.539 --> 00:42:26.179
those clowns in New York and Washington who ruined my
779
00:42:26.679 --> 00:42:30.900
401k and now I can't retire, who did all of this,
780
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.380
there's no consequences for them. And they were furious. And
781
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.340
they didn't have the language, but they wanted to burn
782
00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:40.900
it all down and drain the swamp. And that was something,
783
00:42:40.940 --> 00:42:43.239
for instance, that this was not a disconnect at all.
784
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.750
Donald Trump, and again, I don't think it was from
785
00:42:46.269 --> 00:42:48.190
doing a road trip and talking to hundreds of voters,
786
00:42:48.269 --> 00:42:53.590
but he viscerally, instinctually understood that anger, understood that frustration
787
00:42:53.610 --> 00:42:54.269
with the system.
788
00:42:54.670 --> 00:42:57.369
But that's my point. How is it that, I mean,
789
00:42:57.510 --> 00:43:00.420
after the 2008 financial crisis and everything that occurred, how
790
00:43:00.500 --> 00:43:03.920
is it that Washington did not understand that? And the
791
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.940
problem with Trump is not necessarily what his diagnosis is.
792
00:43:08.059 --> 00:43:10.659
It's what his prescription is. Look, the idea that he
793
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.889
figured out people were disconnected and angry and all those things,
794
00:43:14.150 --> 00:43:15.650
and they wanted to drain the swamp is one thing.
795
00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:18.719
But he doesn't look like someone who wants to reform
796
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.039
the system in a positive way to take the corruption out.
797
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:23.360
He wants the deed to the swamp signed over to
798
00:43:23.420 --> 00:43:29.340
him because he wants full and total, uh, you know, monarchical, uh,
799
00:43:29.780 --> 00:43:32.610
control over everything. So I think that's, we're sort of
800
00:43:32.670 --> 00:43:35.429
talking about the same thing, which is how the fuck
801
00:43:35.710 --> 00:43:40.630
does Washington and politicians who are from these districts not
802
00:43:40.829 --> 00:43:45.420
understand that in their bones and and try and reform
803
00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:49.119
this system that's created this anger rather than just take
804
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:50.099
it over. David?
805
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.590
I mean, I think one thing that struck me when
806
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:58.829
I first moved to Washington was how actually most of
807
00:43:58.849 --> 00:44:03.269
the people in politics are totally normal. Like, you know,
808
00:44:03.769 --> 00:44:07.090
when you're reading about them from afar, they seem like
809
00:44:07.130 --> 00:44:09.019
they're special. And then you get there and you're like, oh,
810
00:44:09.030 --> 00:44:11.789
these are just ordinary jerks. Like, they're as cruel or
811
00:44:11.809 --> 00:44:15.159
as lame as everyone else. And I think part of
812
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:17.980
the problem is as you elevate, you do get further
813
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.219
removed from those things. You have fewer opportunities to be
814
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.780
a normal person and to be around normal people. You're
815
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:25.340
around the same people in politics and they start to
816
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:27.119
rub off on each other. And I don't know how
817
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:29.849
you saw that because if you're running the government, you
818
00:44:29.889 --> 00:44:32.550
have to run the government. I need my senators to
819
00:44:33.409 --> 00:44:35.409
be paying attention to the legislation they're dealing with and
820
00:44:35.510 --> 00:44:38.449
also to actually be in touch with real people. I
821
00:44:38.469 --> 00:44:40.010
think that's a tough thing to do. And I think
822
00:44:40.050 --> 00:44:43.920
the structures... of government push against that. And I also
823
00:44:43.940 --> 00:44:45.619
think like the pandemic was a problem for that. I
824
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:48.739
think a lot of politicians just recently lost touch because
825
00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:52.599
they were not, especially Democrats, were not actually campaigning outside
826
00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:54.639
of Zoom. And I think that has created a disconnect
827
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:57.780
and they're having to work hard to try to rebuild
828
00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:00.909
that and to like remember how to talk to civilians.
829
00:45:01.190 --> 00:45:04.429
Right. Now, ultimately, I think that these are great points
830
00:45:04.469 --> 00:45:07.489
in getting out there. And in your minds, you know,
831
00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:12.619
would more debates be more helpful, do you think, for voters,
832
00:45:12.900 --> 00:45:15.099
would you like to see more? I don't know that
833
00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:17.409
I would want to watch another one because I don't
834
00:45:17.510 --> 00:45:21.489
feel that I would learn anything particularly astonishing. And it
835
00:45:21.530 --> 00:45:24.389
would be like watching in the way that people watch
836
00:45:24.409 --> 00:45:26.750
sometimes motor races, which is like, I just want to
837
00:45:26.769 --> 00:45:29.210
see somebody spin out and flip over, you know, and
838
00:45:29.429 --> 00:45:35.179
have something unbelievably terrifying or exciting happening. Is there more
839
00:45:35.219 --> 00:45:39.489
to learn in your minds from that that we haven't
840
00:45:39.550 --> 00:45:42.389
seen already, or would it be an exercise in spectacle?
841
00:45:42.929 --> 00:45:46.449
Why not both? I think they're important.
842
00:45:46.469 --> 00:45:47.309
You can have it all.
843
00:45:47.610 --> 00:45:49.769
Yeah, I do think they're valuable. And I think part
844
00:45:49.789 --> 00:45:52.989
of that is because the candidates, both of them spend
845
00:45:53.070 --> 00:45:55.409
so little time in situations where they don't get to
846
00:45:55.469 --> 00:45:58.329
choose the questioner. They don't get to pick a friendly person.
847
00:45:58.650 --> 00:46:00.650
It's not a controlled environment. And so whether they're taking
848
00:46:00.690 --> 00:46:03.570
questions from David Muir and Lindsay Davis or taking questions
849
00:46:03.610 --> 00:46:06.010
from the other candidate, it forces them to do something
850
00:46:06.030 --> 00:46:09.309
they don't do all the time. And that provides... us
851
00:46:09.349 --> 00:46:11.389
a better sense of like what their character is, how
852
00:46:11.409 --> 00:46:14.119
they think on their feet, what they actually believe. And
853
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.059
so I think it's worthwhile.
854
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:16.440
Ashley, what do you think?
855
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.219
Yeah, I mean, our debates is helpful with getting more
856
00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:23.099
information than if, say, each candidate sat down with like
857
00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:26.389
the subject matter experts at The Washington Post, The Atlantic,
858
00:46:26.630 --> 00:46:29.289
The Wall Street Journal. No, absolutely not. But are those
859
00:46:29.329 --> 00:46:32.610
two candidates going to do that? No, absolutely not. So
860
00:46:32.989 --> 00:46:35.630
to David's point, debates may be the best of like,
861
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.440
the not particularly great options.
862
00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:40.380
To focus it, right. Ashley, as somebody who's, you know,
863
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.699
had the pleasure of moderating one of those, is there
864
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:47.800
a change that you would make in the formats? I mean,
865
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:51.119
I think, you know, unfortunately, moderating a debate is like
866
00:46:51.139 --> 00:46:53.599
hosting the Oscars. There's really not much of an upside. And,
867
00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:59.019
you know, I thought they did a fine job as
868
00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:00.780
most of the people that have done it have done
869
00:47:00.820 --> 00:47:03.599
a fine job. Is there a change that you would
870
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:06.409
make in the format that you believe would make it
871
00:47:07.389 --> 00:47:11.219
more informational, more revelatory, more insightful?
872
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:14.380
It's a good question. I mean, I actually thought they,
873
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:16.800
I mean, moderating in a debate, right. It's sort of
874
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:19.239
like being a kicker in football, right? Like you're only
875
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:21.260
remembered if you go wide, you know?
876
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:22.239
Wide, right. Yeah.
877
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:24.610
Um, so the best thing for debate moderators to be
878
00:47:24.730 --> 00:47:26.389
on memory, you know, you remember the debate, you remember
879
00:47:26.409 --> 00:47:29.110
the moments, not the moderators. I mean, I thought David
880
00:47:29.130 --> 00:47:32.130
Muir and Lindsay Davis did a fantastic job, including it is,
881
00:47:32.250 --> 00:47:35.130
it is incredibly difficult, um, as someone who has interviewed
882
00:47:35.150 --> 00:47:37.880
him to fact check Donald Trump in real time. Um,
883
00:47:38.730 --> 00:47:42.280
And they, in certain key moments, they were prepared. And
884
00:47:42.389 --> 00:47:45.420
David Muir, especially in some of those moments, like with
885
00:47:45.579 --> 00:47:47.800
the cats and dogs, I mean, he had the information
886
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:51.280
at his disposal from a verified, reliable source. And he
887
00:47:51.340 --> 00:47:55.619
was so sort of calm, which is not easy to
888
00:47:55.659 --> 00:47:57.219
do in those situations.
889
00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:01.900
Yeah, no, absolutely. Do you think, would it be possible
890
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.849
to do, you know, sort of two candidates sitting in
891
00:48:05.889 --> 00:48:09.820
front of each other just talking? Is that something that
892
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.900
we could even pull off in a modern political era?
893
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:15.460
Can you imagine Donald Trump doing that?
894
00:48:16.820 --> 00:48:22.469
Personally, I cannot imagine him doing anything where he is
895
00:48:22.590 --> 00:48:27.070
not the sole arbiter of the rule book and the
896
00:48:27.130 --> 00:48:29.610
rules of engagement. I just think, I mean, it gets
897
00:48:29.650 --> 00:48:32.800
back to what we had said earlier. I think his
898
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:38.659
entire upbringing has been as the inheritor of the castle
899
00:48:39.380 --> 00:48:42.500
and that everything that's been done has been to his, look,
900
00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:47.539
his first mentor outside of his father was Roy Cohn.
901
00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.880
Like you don't do that when your methodology is collaboration
902
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.550
and openness. Like you do that when you want to
903
00:48:54.590 --> 00:48:57.230
get away with shit as best you can and go
904
00:48:57.289 --> 00:49:01.570
scorched earth on everybody else. So I just think that's
905
00:49:01.650 --> 00:49:05.730
his methodology. But as a country, it seems like we
906
00:49:05.769 --> 00:49:09.429
might be better served. you know, if they could.
907
00:49:10.219 --> 00:49:12.380
Yeah, I mean, I think it's tricky because the reason
908
00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:15.760
that they, the reason that you see people, you know,
909
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:18.710
candidates demagoguing and bending the truth and doing whatever in
910
00:49:18.750 --> 00:49:21.230
these things is because the cameras are rolling. And also
911
00:49:21.250 --> 00:49:23.550
they're valuable because the cameras are rolling and voters can
912
00:49:23.570 --> 00:49:25.610
see that. If you could somehow get them to forget
913
00:49:25.949 --> 00:49:27.869
what was going on, I think that would help. But
914
00:49:27.889 --> 00:49:32.489
it's a, you know, in the same way that C-SPAN.
915
00:49:32.530 --> 00:49:35.800
You just blew my mind. Like, So it's almost like
916
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:39.400
Schrodinger's candidate. Like if we, if we weren't watching this
917
00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:43.099
and we weren't filming it. So how much has coverage
918
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:46.940
do you think changed our politics? Like we all talk
919
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:52.199
about sunlight is the best disinfectant and transparency, but has
920
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:56.119
our transparent, like would these guys be much better if
921
00:49:56.219 --> 00:49:56.960
we weren't there?
922
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:59.440
I mean, I think you can make a pretty convincing
923
00:49:59.539 --> 00:50:03.460
argument that C-SPAN helped break Congress. Because suddenly you can
924
00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:08.929
watch them doing it. So, yeah.
925
00:50:08.949 --> 00:50:13.170
Fucking C-SPAN. I knew it. Those pricks. We've been all
926
00:50:13.190 --> 00:50:16.130
looking in the wrong direction to blame somebody. It's C-SPAN's
927
00:50:16.190 --> 00:50:18.059
fault for putting security cameras on.
928
00:50:18.170 --> 00:50:19.429
Yeah, turn the camera around.
929
00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:24.780
That sounds like a slate pitch to me, David.
930
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.119
Done. C-SPAN's fault. Well, guys, I know you've got another,
931
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:31.119
what is this, 10 weeks of this? What do we
932
00:50:31.139 --> 00:50:32.739
got now? Somewhere around there?
933
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:33.920
Who even knows?
934
00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:37.449
Yeah. You guys aren't doing it like you're prisoners where
935
00:50:37.469 --> 00:50:39.619
you're just checking off days as you go along. You're
936
00:50:39.659 --> 00:50:41.889
just in it right now. And that just is what
937
00:50:41.929 --> 00:50:42.170
it is.
938
00:50:42.269 --> 00:50:45.070
Well, also, I'll just say, I think people are skeptical
939
00:50:45.230 --> 00:50:47.489
that it necessarily ends on election day.
940
00:50:48.230 --> 00:50:50.389
Oh, right. I keep forgetting that that's, yeah. Are you
941
00:50:50.449 --> 00:50:55.929
seeing the campaigns being as aggressive with the post-election strategizing
942
00:50:56.170 --> 00:50:58.789
and scheming and game planning as they are for the
943
00:50:58.809 --> 00:51:00.909
debates and such? Yeah. Yeah.
944
00:51:01.460 --> 00:51:03.739
Absolutely. And again, it's not just until the electoral, right?
945
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:07.510
It's like, will if Donald Trump loses, will he accept
946
00:51:07.889 --> 00:51:12.949
the results? He's shown no indication. What will his supporters do? Right? Like,
947
00:51:13.690 --> 00:51:15.230
that's another open question.
948
00:51:15.250 --> 00:51:16.130
Oh, yeah.
949
00:51:16.210 --> 00:51:17.690
I mean, you've got the legal war rooms, but you
950
00:51:17.710 --> 00:51:20.920
also just have this sort of like contingency planning. I
951
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:22.659
like to take a vacation after the election because I'm
952
00:51:22.699 --> 00:51:24.460
usually exhausted. And I'm just like, when is that? Is
953
00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:26.139
that December 1st?
954
00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:27.219
You can't even plan a trip.
955
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:29.570
Is it January 7th? Is it January 21st? I have
956
00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:29.829
no idea.
957
00:51:29.849 --> 00:51:31.730
It's like, when can I use my Marriott points?
958
00:51:33.909 --> 00:51:36.250
Thank you both very much for joining us and talking
959
00:51:36.269 --> 00:51:38.650
about that. Ashley Parker, Senior National Political Correspondent for The
960
00:51:38.690 --> 00:51:41.949
Washington Post. David Graham, staff writer at The Atlantic. Guys,
961
00:51:41.969 --> 00:51:47.000
your insights into what? Thank you for giving a much
962
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.909
clearer perspective, having been involved in all this. and really
963
00:51:50.949 --> 00:51:54.719
helping us understand sort of what's going on behind what
964
00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:56.829
C-SPAN is showing us. I really do appreciate it.
965
00:51:57.179 --> 00:51:57.559
Thank you.
966
00:51:57.579 --> 00:51:57.960
Thank you.
967
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.860
I don't, what they do, the day-to-day, I could not
968
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:09.110
do that. I would lose my shit.
969
00:52:09.610 --> 00:52:10.750
It already feels too much.
970
00:52:12.389 --> 00:52:14.789
I lost my shit just being in the conversation with
971
00:52:14.809 --> 00:52:18.710
them for an hour. It's so claustrophobic.
972
00:52:19.210 --> 00:52:20.349
Yeah. Props to them.
973
00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:22.670
I thought it was really interesting, though. They were like,
974
00:52:22.949 --> 00:52:25.550
I don't know when to plan the vacay. Like, your
975
00:52:25.610 --> 00:52:28.780
whole life is consumed by sort of these endless campaigns.
976
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.920
And they're like, oh, yeah, we used to know November 8th.
977
00:52:32.420 --> 00:52:32.559
Yeah.
978
00:52:32.619 --> 00:52:34.900
I could get a Club Med and Turks and Caicos
979
00:52:34.940 --> 00:52:37.659
and decompress for five days. And now they're like, could
980
00:52:37.699 --> 00:52:40.679
be January. Might have to then jump in and cover
981
00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:42.860
the Civil War. Like, we don't even know what's going
982
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:47.409
to happen. Topsy-turvy. Topsy-turvy. What else we got as we
983
00:52:47.489 --> 00:52:51.289
roll on? Now we're back. Weekly show pod, banging out
984
00:52:51.389 --> 00:52:53.730
the episodes every week. What else we got?
985
00:52:53.989 --> 00:52:56.090
Well, while we were gone, we put out a call
986
00:52:56.130 --> 00:53:01.610
for our listeners to either give us some suggestions for
987
00:53:01.630 --> 00:53:04.820
what we should cover, why they might be upset with you,
988
00:53:04.989 --> 00:53:08.039
et cetera. So I think just to get started, I'm
989
00:53:08.059 --> 00:53:11.900
going to start with someone had a really interesting new
990
00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:13.679
idea for how we should handle debates.
991
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:14.500
Yeah.
992
00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:18.309
Which I think is cool. They said, if anything productive
993
00:53:18.349 --> 00:53:21.190
is going to get discussed, we need two desks, two pens,
994
00:53:21.429 --> 00:53:25.849
one prompt, five paragraphs, dueling five paragraph essays. If we
995
00:53:25.929 --> 00:53:28.210
ask that of our children to graduate high school, it's
996
00:53:28.269 --> 00:53:29.849
fair to ask that of our elected reps.
997
00:53:30.570 --> 00:53:32.750
Boy, what a nice idea. You give them a prompt,
998
00:53:33.010 --> 00:53:36.449
you give them 45 minutes, pencils down, and then they
999
00:53:36.489 --> 00:53:38.590
have to read their essay and discuss it.
1000
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:40.840
But can you imagine Trump doing that?
1001
00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:45.500
Can you? Is there anything more exciting than watching people write?
1002
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.860
Oh, actually, this person went on and said, we should
1003
00:53:48.909 --> 00:53:52.409
do ASMR of the pen and paper. You could cut
1004
00:53:52.469 --> 00:53:53.530
that up on TikTok.
1005
00:53:53.769 --> 00:53:55.550
You know, this is a person that clearly put in
1006
00:53:55.570 --> 00:53:57.730
a lot of thought into this and in many ways
1007
00:53:58.150 --> 00:54:00.670
should be called upon. Forget about the League of Women
1008
00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:03.650
Voters or the debate commission. I think we should put
1009
00:54:04.250 --> 00:54:09.449
whatever it is, at banana 12, you know, he should
1010
00:54:09.489 --> 00:54:12.010
be there. She should be there. the producer of the
1011
00:54:12.050 --> 00:54:13.639
next movie. That's lovely.
1012
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:14.420
Okay.
1013
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:15.420
All right.
1014
00:54:15.579 --> 00:54:18.179
We have a good question. And actually, this is something
1015
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:23.219
that we've talked about, but how, this person wants to know,
1016
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:27.039
how do you talk to someone who believes conspiracy theories?
1017
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:31.800
Oh, I don't think you can. I think it depends
1018
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:33.760
on how far gone they're going. But, you know, one
1019
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:35.820
of the things you realize about people who believe conspiracy
1020
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:37.730
theories is they're not, because they always say, I'm just
1021
00:54:37.769 --> 00:54:41.150
asking questions. But when you ask questions, if you're not
1022
00:54:41.210 --> 00:54:44.389
willing to hear answers, then you're clearly not just asking questions.
1023
00:54:44.429 --> 00:54:48.739
What you're trying to do is just sow doubt. The
1024
00:54:48.780 --> 00:54:51.559
thing that always strikes me about conspiracy theories, because I'm
1025
00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:54.820
generally skeptical, right? And that's always the basis of a
1026
00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:57.739
conspiracy theory. The official story that you've been told is
1027
00:54:57.780 --> 00:55:01.360
not the total story, which is an ethos. I believe
1028
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:05.199
in that. I believe that oftentimes, generally, I don't believe
1029
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:08.179
it's through malevolence, although I think at times it's through malevolence.
1030
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:11.949
I think it's either through incompetence or that generally stories
1031
00:55:12.449 --> 00:55:16.219
are not linear and there are facts that are inconvenient
1032
00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:18.800
or don't quite fit in. But the problem I have
1033
00:55:18.820 --> 00:55:22.900
with conspiracies is they don't apply the same skepticism to
1034
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.679
the counter narrative. And it's very hard to permeate that.
1035
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:30.889
And it's not to suggest that people shouldn't be skeptical
1036
00:55:31.230 --> 00:55:34.530
or that they shouldn't challenge the official line and they
1037
00:55:34.570 --> 00:55:37.989
shouldn't be where, but what they should understand is very
1038
00:55:38.110 --> 00:55:41.489
rarely people, Do official lines have their shit together to
1039
00:55:41.510 --> 00:55:45.469
the point that there won't be inconsistencies? But those inconsistencies
1040
00:55:45.929 --> 00:55:51.969
are different than a malevolent and sure-footed interpretation that it
1041
00:55:52.010 --> 00:55:56.679
was actually fully this other thing. That's hard.
1042
00:55:57.079 --> 00:56:00.059
I think a new trend is that the conspiracy theory
1043
00:56:00.139 --> 00:56:03.340
minded people don't necessarily have a counter narrative. They just
1044
00:56:03.380 --> 00:56:06.909
poke holes in the narrative and say something else is true.
1045
00:56:07.429 --> 00:56:08.150
Yeah. Right, right, right.
1046
00:56:08.309 --> 00:56:10.570
You don't need to have like a full narrative anymore.
1047
00:56:10.889 --> 00:56:14.019
Do you have friends that are conspiracy theorists in those areas?
1048
00:56:14.139 --> 00:56:15.280
And what would those be?
1049
00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:18.300
Yeah. I mean, that's why this question really stood out
1050
00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:22.559
to me was like, you know, holidays and it's people
1051
00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:25.619
I love, people I'm very close with. And it also
1052
00:56:25.659 --> 00:56:28.150
goes to like, coffee's going to kill you, right? Like
1053
00:56:28.250 --> 00:56:32.409
the COVID vaccine is the reason that you're getting skin cancer, whatever.
1054
00:56:32.449 --> 00:56:36.369
Like all of these things are un- Instagram. And I'm
1055
00:56:36.409 --> 00:56:37.909
seeing it on the internet. I mean, we even saw
1056
00:56:37.929 --> 00:56:39.849
in the debate, like he was like, I saw it
1057
00:56:39.889 --> 00:56:43.750
on TV. So it becomes like a real problem where
1058
00:56:43.769 --> 00:56:46.929
you're like, I love these people, but I just can't,
1059
00:56:47.230 --> 00:56:47.550
you know.
1060
00:56:48.170 --> 00:56:51.150
How do we find that balance between questioning whether or
1061
00:56:51.190 --> 00:56:56.320
not like a COVID vaccine can cause, you know, bad effects. Yeah.
1062
00:56:56.679 --> 00:57:00.480
And every time a football player gets injured, it's because
1063
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:03.579
of that. Like there's, there's gotta be a space for
1064
00:57:04.539 --> 00:57:09.199
For skepticism, it's such an important part of discourse, but
1065
00:57:09.260 --> 00:57:12.389
it can't fall into that. Maybe that's it. Maybe saying
1066
00:57:12.449 --> 00:57:16.510
to them, you know, I appreciate your skepticism on that.
1067
00:57:16.969 --> 00:57:23.090
I feel I have questions about what you're saying. Yeah.
1068
00:57:23.449 --> 00:57:25.289
Maybe that's a way to diffuse it. I have no
1069
00:57:25.329 --> 00:57:25.869
fucking idea.
1070
00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:26.429
Yep.
1071
00:57:27.190 --> 00:57:27.809
That's a tough one.
1072
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:28.570
I know.
1073
00:57:29.409 --> 00:57:30.469
Let me know when you figure it out.
1074
00:57:32.090 --> 00:57:34.829
Thanksgiving is coming. I got to figure it out quickly. Yeah.
1075
00:57:34.949 --> 00:57:35.909
You got to get this done.
1076
00:57:35.929 --> 00:57:38.289
Do you have room for one more, John?
1077
00:57:38.590 --> 00:57:38.929
One more.
1078
00:57:39.269 --> 00:57:39.530
Bring it.
1079
00:57:39.530 --> 00:57:39.750
All right.
1080
00:57:40.190 --> 00:57:40.489
Bring it.
1081
00:57:40.510 --> 00:57:41.409
People want to know.
1082
00:57:41.289 --> 00:57:44.210
What is the toughest interview you've ever done and why?
1083
00:57:44.230 --> 00:57:49.170
I got to tell you, Harry Reid was a tough
1084
00:57:49.289 --> 00:57:53.610
one because Harry Reid was the Senate majority leader, Senator
1085
00:57:53.670 --> 00:57:58.789
from Nevada. Yeah. Passed away. but had a really interesting
1086
00:57:59.150 --> 00:58:02.769
life and had written a book about it. Uh, was
1087
00:58:02.889 --> 00:58:07.599
raised in a literal dirt floor shack in, you know,
1088
00:58:07.659 --> 00:58:13.000
the desert and, you know, really the kind of poverty that,
1089
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:18.960
you know, is, is dust bully. And so he brings on,
1090
00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:22.170
he comes on to sit down and I'm sitting with
1091
00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:26.329
him and I start to, you know, you were raised
1092
00:58:26.409 --> 00:58:30.010
on a, dirt floor and to come from that to go.
1093
00:58:30.409 --> 00:58:33.230
And he really did not seem familiar with the story.
1094
00:58:34.150 --> 00:58:36.679
And it wasn't a tough interview in that it was combative.
1095
00:58:37.219 --> 00:58:40.960
It was more bewildering. I think it was about three
1096
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:42.780
minutes in where I was like, have you read this book?
1097
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:44.400
Because it's fascinating.
1098
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:47.000
It's fiction.
1099
00:58:47.179 --> 00:58:50.190
It's your story. You should really look at it because
1100
00:58:50.250 --> 00:58:53.519
it's remarkable. But it was just one of those like, look, man,
1101
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:56.360
these guys are, they're running around all day. They're busy.
1102
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:58.010
They're up on a book tour. And I think he
1103
00:58:58.030 --> 00:59:01.969
just was in like a brain fart era. But for me,
1104
00:59:01.989 --> 00:59:05.750
I had been invested in reading the whole thing and
1105
00:59:06.030 --> 00:59:08.969
parsing it with him. And he really was like, where
1106
00:59:09.010 --> 00:59:09.949
was that now? Nirvana?
1107
00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:13.820
He was giving you nothing we have to find his
1108
00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:16.300
ghost writer nothing yeah uh.
1109
00:59:16.300 --> 00:59:18.119
But those those are the tough ones and then there's
1110
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:19.880
always the compatible ones the ones i hate the most
1111
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.820
are there'll be people that write the books that are
1112
00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:26.519
like liberals skull fuck uh children and then you're like
1113
00:59:26.739 --> 00:59:28.690
why would you say that and you go well I
1114
00:59:28.730 --> 00:59:31.349
don't think we're that far apart, liberals and conservatives. I
1115
00:59:31.389 --> 00:59:34.389
think we're, you know, it's they take an incredibly strong
1116
00:59:34.449 --> 00:59:39.670
position for their reactionary audience in the book. And then
1117
00:59:39.710 --> 00:59:42.010
you bring them on and they're like, oh, people are
1118
00:59:42.050 --> 00:59:44.849
just people. And if we all just I'd like to
1119
00:59:44.869 --> 00:59:47.869
get back to that feeling on September 12th when we
1120
00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:50.380
were all one nation. And you're like, well, then maybe
1121
00:59:50.429 --> 00:59:55.519
you shouldn't write that liberals are an enemy column within
1122
00:59:55.539 --> 00:59:58.360
the United States that are trying to destroy it from within.
1123
00:59:58.809 --> 00:59:59.210
Yeah.
1124
00:59:59.909 --> 01:00:02.010
So those are also, those are the ones that also
1125
01:00:02.050 --> 01:00:02.969
can give you problems.
1126
01:00:04.769 --> 01:00:05.349
Sounds fun.
1127
01:00:05.489 --> 01:00:08.489
Yeah, it's fun. But it's all good. And we've had
1128
01:00:08.510 --> 01:00:13.030
another lovely pod. We are back now. Our break is over.
1129
01:00:13.150 --> 01:00:16.210
As always, I want to thank lead producer, Lauren Walker, producer,
1130
01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:20.710
Brittany Mamedovic, video editor and engineer, Rob Vitolo, who I
1131
01:00:20.769 --> 01:00:24.969
want to tell the audience survived an earthquake during the
1132
01:00:25.030 --> 01:00:28.590
recording of this podcast. Rob, are you still there? Are
1133
01:00:28.610 --> 01:00:31.730
you alive? Hanging in there. We're hanging in there. Rob,
1134
01:00:31.809 --> 01:00:36.159
you survived a 5.1 earthquake while we were talking and
1135
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:37.679
didn't lose internet.
1136
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:40.860
Yeah, I don't want to give any utility too much
1137
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:41.800
credit there, but.
1138
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:44.559
I do appreciate it. You're probably right. But you are
1139
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:48.519
safe and you continue to operate in the genius manner
1140
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:50.579
that you always do. And we appreciate it.
1141
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:51.579
Rob's always killing it.
1142
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:55.010
He's always killing it. Audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce, researcher,
1143
01:00:55.489 --> 01:00:58.070
and associate producer Jillian Spear. And as always, executive producers
1144
01:00:58.110 --> 01:01:01.429
Chris McShane and Katie Gray. What are the socials, Brittany?
1145
01:01:01.909 --> 01:01:05.639
We are Weekly Show Pod on Twitter, Weekly Show Podcast
1146
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.099
on Instagram threads, TikTok, and the Weekly Show with Jon
1147
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:10.199
Stewart on YouTube.
1148
01:01:11.139 --> 01:01:12.699
And if any of you are listening to this or
1149
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:14.539
seeing this right now, that means that there was no
1150
01:01:14.619 --> 01:01:16.960
follow-up giant earthquake and that Rob was able to get
1151
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.219
this thing together enough to send it out over the airwaves.
1152
01:01:20.260 --> 01:01:22.610
Thank you guys very much. And we shall see you
1153
01:01:22.670 --> 01:01:31.840
again next week. Bye-bye. The weekly show with Jon Stewart
1154
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.500
is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio
1155
01:01:35.739 --> 01:01:37.039
and Busboy Productions.
1156
01:01:49.630 --> 01:01:50.869
Paramount Podcasts.