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If someone you'd never met before walked up to you in the street and asked you to marry them, how likely is it you would say yes and yet we put out content expecting people who have never heard from us to spend money and buy from us.
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Sometimes a lot of money.
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Matching what you are saying to where your ideal client is in their journey of discovery with you.
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It is so, so important to making that connection, fostering that relationship, and ultimately getting sales.
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My guest today is here to tell us all about that, the different stages of the relationship, what we should be saying at each, and also how we can harness this to build a business that allows us to make more money and less time so that we can be done by lunch.
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Today I'm thrilled to be welcoming Jerry Potter as our guest.
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Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing podcast.
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Using marketing to persuade people to buy your thing is hard, icky, and not an effective use of your time.
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It's an upside down way of doing things.
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Introducing upside up marketing, helping you create offers people want to buy and share them in a way that feels good.
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All over a nice cup of tea.
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Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing podcast, and this week I am delighted to have Jerry Potter with us.
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Uh, Jerry, would you like to tell everyone a bit about yourself?
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Uh, sure.
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I, um, my, my main obsession, my brain's main obsession I've discovered is doing things in the highest leverage way possible in our businesses.
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And so now I help other people do that as well.
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There's a lot of low leverage ways to do things in entrepreneurship, which lead to burnout, and I primarily do that through YouTube and podcasting because the biggest thing we need in our business before we can kind of go.
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Ah is consistent lead generation and audience growth, so primarily YouTube and podcasting, which I love and I, my biggest mission is to help people finish, like help people get their business out there before they burn out.
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Brilliant.
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And for context for everyone listening, um, Jerry is the reason I have a podcast.
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If it wasn't for his teaching, I probably would never have bothered'cause it sounded like so much hard work and he really broke, broke it down and made it something that was not only doable, but something I actually did.
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So.
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So, yeah, I thought it'd be great to get you on, Jerry, to talk about some of the ideas I've learned from you over the years of working with you that I think would be really, really useful for the listeners of this podcast.
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And, um, one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast is communicating with our ideal clients and making sure we're getting our messaging right and things like that.
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And one thing that I learned from you specifically was about how.
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Different people are hitting our content at different stages and those people need different messages.
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Um, and I think that's something that'd be really useful to share with listeners.
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So, um, you've got your date framework, I think you call it.
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Mm-hmm.
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you for you to explain a bit about that and how it sort of helps you the right people at the right time with the right message.
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Yeah.
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Well, one of the most challenging things in marketing and with our messaging is you can't always control when somebody's going to hear something.
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So if all of a sudden you're launching this$10,000 product right after someone signed up for your email list, or right after someone decided to follow you on Facebook or Instagram and you're like, Hey, last chance$10,000.
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And they're like, I.
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Barely know you, right?
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That's gonna fall on deaf ears and on the social media side, which is when I develop this framework, they'll, they won't engage, and then the algorithms will basically stop showing them your stuff.
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So we have to think about different people in different places.
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And so the Date framework is an acronym.
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Uh, it stands for Discovery, acquaintance Talking and Enchanted.
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And the short version is.
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In the beginning, somebody discovers us.
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That's what we want, right?
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But we have to talk to them like they don't know who we are yet.
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They don't like us, they don't trust us like they are.
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We are brand new to them, and so we kinda have to earn their trust or at least a little bit of likability before we can start having the next conversation.
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The second stage is a, which is for acquaintance, and I look at acquaintance, kind of like, you know, you and I are both parents.
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I kind of look at it like the, the parent you see across the parking lot at school pickup, and you're like, Hey.
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Bill will, I think you work in real estate, right?
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So at this stage, the customer kind of knows who you are, kind of knows what you do.
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They don't know your inside jargon, they don't know your, you know, frameworks.
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They don't know any of that stuff.
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So again, we don't want to bombard them with that yet.
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The third phase I call the talking phase, and this is where the conversation actually starts with you and your future client or customer.
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Now, it could be an actual conversation like you're emailing back and forth, or you got on a call or you're DMing, or in some cases if you use content marketing like Katie does with her podcast.
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I'm sitting here listening to her podcast and I'm kind of nodding along to what she's saying because I agree with it.
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That is that conversation.
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I am now talking to Katie.
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She doesn't know it yet.
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She might be weirded out by it, but I am now talking to Katie.
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So, so that's the talking phase.
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And then the last phase, uh, the e in date I call the enchanted phase.
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And this is where they're pretty much like, man, they're great and I'm.
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I'm probably gonna buy from them at some point, right?
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We've all kind of come across somebody and they're like, oh, next time they do this, or next time I'm at the store and they see this product, like, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much gonna get that.
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And at this point, obviously they know us, they like us, they trust us.
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They may love us.
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You know, I, I sort of equate it to, at this point, they're like, I'm gonna ask that person out on that date.
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And sometimes they're just waiting for.
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Uh, an offer to come out the right offer or, you know, the opportunity to be right.
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So, but once somebody is enchanted, it's kind of like our sale to lose at that point.
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Amazing.
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And, um, do we deal with it with, like, for example, this podcast, might find it and it is the first time they've seen me,
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Mm-hmm.
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time, you know, I share it with my email list.
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These people might have been following me for years and they're listening to it as well.
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How do we serve the needs of both audiences through one bit of content?
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Yeah, it's a little bit different depending on the type of content, because obviously if this show is going the way that you want, you have new people every time.
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And then you also have loyal people that have binged every episode, right?
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And they're like, okay, what's Katie gonna say?
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Now I can't wait to to listen, so I.
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When I developed the date framework, it was actually designed for social media because we had this unique opportunity on social media, which still exists, where if you were making short form videos, so that could be tiktoks reels on Facebook and Instagram, YouTube shorts, uh, vertical videos, under two minutes on LinkedIn, they can reach people who don't know who we are yet.
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So when we made those, we would talk to people, uh, in that way.
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And the important thing when somebody doesn't know you yet is you have to give value.
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That's how we earn.
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The no, like trust factor, right?
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You can't just come out and be like, Hey, I've got this$10,000 offer, right?
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So, so you start by giving value.
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Then in the acquaintance phase on social media, that usually will fall in the feed posts.
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Somebody's decided to follow you at this point, they kind of know what you're about.
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So you can talk to'em a little bit differently once they kind of get into that, um, that specific acquaintance phase.
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And with that, I kind of look at it as.
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You know, this is where you wanna start to shift some of the major beliefs around what you do.
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Uh, you know, what you offer, different things like that.
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So it's not the moment that you are going to, again, change everything that they know and think, but you wanna at least start talking about it.
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And you also wanna start talking about the what and why of your solution, not necessarily the how.
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'cause again, you're just trying to get them to open up to it.
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The main goal in that acquaintance phase is to get them.
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Talking to you.
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Uh, and so that's why you start talking about these things so that they wanna know more, they wanna reach out, they want to book a call, they want to reply to an email, different things like that.
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Um, talking phase is all about talking, right?
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Um, this is where somebody has already, you know, decided like they know what you do, they know what you offer.
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They may not know.
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All of the details, but they at least know enough that they're kind of like, okay, yeah, this is one of the options I'm considering is kind of the way to look at it.
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And then enchanted, it's all about making good offers.
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So on social media, you can do like discovery and short form videos, feed posts I look at as the acquaintance content.
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Um, you know, Instagram stories, Facebook stories, uh, in the comments section, those are obviously all talking.
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And then enchanted.
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Usually for most businesses, by then you're on a discovery call or you're moving to your email list or something like that.
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So it works well on social media.
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It's a little more challenging when you're talking about a podcast episode, and so I.
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With this, I sort of draw on the way that I did it as a radio personality where when I was a morning presenter, we had to assume some people knew who we were, some people didn't every single time.
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And so in your pod, we'll use your podcast as, as the example.
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Um, you always want to be giving value.
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Um, you always want to be shifting beliefs.
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You don't want to be using too much inside jargon or frameworks unless you take the time to explain it.
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So we're sort of taking the same things that we're talking about that take somebody through a buyer journey.
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We are just not.
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You know, like we're not assuming somebody already knows, like in my world, that somebody already knows what the date framework is.
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And so the good news is with longer content like this, even though your episodes are really succinct, although I might be making this one too long right now, I don't know.
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But even though your episodes are really succinct, they, you know, they do like when somebody is willing to spend that much time with you, you can kind of take them through all of the phases in one place.
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And so the main goal is to provide value to the new people.
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Don't alienate, uh, the new people by, you know, using things.
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They don't know what you're talking about unless you explain them.
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That's great advice and.
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Uh, yeah, I see what you mean.
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Like when you've got the more time with the content, you can go through the phases.
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Just make sure you don't leave people behind and bring people with you.
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Um, one thing that I talk about a lot is the importance of being specific
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Mm-hmm.
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that are listening or reading or watching, whatever, know that you are talking to them.
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Um, do you think that this applies equally at every stage of the framework or is this something that you know, is sort of.
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You're super specific to get people in and then as you move on, you can get vaguer or the other way round.
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Maybe you bring them in on quite a vague premise, but then as you get them along the, hate the word funnel, but you know what I mean, if I say it,
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Yeah, I.
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that's when you're getting more and more specific as to this is, you know who this is actually for.
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Yeah, I'm glad you said funnel, so I didn't have to.
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Um, I think that, uh, I think, you know, you do kind of look at it, you know, if you're thinking about the date and them coming along and you're courting them, you do start with a wider pool at the top, and then you get more narrow.
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And so I think in the very beginning, like in that discovery phase, you don't wanna necessarily be saying things that completely rule people out that might be a good fit Now.
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That being said, I'm all with you on specificity and sometimes the more specific you can be.
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People know exactly who you're talking to, so I don't want to say, oh, in the beginning you should feel like you're serving everybody.
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But one of the things that we talk about when you get to the Talking in the Enchanted phase, these are great opportunities to then share kind of your values, your why, what you are about, because often those are the things that make somebody.
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Enchanted with you, right?
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Because they all of a sudden go, yes, I agree with that, or I'm on this same mission, or, yes, we're both trying to run businesses as parents and it's challenging, or whatever it might be.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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So you bring them in.
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I guess you are almost bringing them in by showing them that you solve the problem they have, and then as they go through, you're showing them how you solve it and the values you have and the sort of person you'd be like to work with.
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And that's when you're sort of, I guess, filtering out the people that wouldn't be the right fit for the uh, offer.
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Yeah, there's been, um, for years now, they've shown that younger generations are more willing to spend money on a company or a business where their values are aligned than one, that they're not aligned.
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And so it can create incredible loyalty.
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It can, I.
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Definitely fast track that enchanted moment by sharing our values and, and different things that we're about.
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And I know if you're a brand new entrepreneur, this is exactly how I was.
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I was like, well, I don't want anyone to not like me.
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Plus I'm a recovering people pleaser and I, and I have to earn a living and, you know, all of those things.
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But you really will build more.
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Loyal people in your world by leaning into some of that stuff and how controversial you wanna get.
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Like if you want to get into politics, that works for some people, but it doesn't have to be that sometimes people just bond over a love of, of, like, I have a, a friend who's a personal brand photographer and she talks about how much she loves Oreo cookies all the time, and people connect with her over that.
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So it doesn't have to be, you know, this huge like controversial stance.
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Amazing.
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Um, one of the things that this, getting this messaging right, making your marketing more effective.
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Thereby, meaning you don't have to spend so much time on it.
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Potentially.
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I'm segue in here to,
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Mm-hmm.
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spot on, getting, getting the messaging to the right people at the right time, making your marketing more effective, how does this, um, help you with this?
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And yeah, if you want to throw in a bit there about what the done by Lunch theory is, approach is then uh, that'd be great too.
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Yeah.
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Well, and thank you for bringing that up because done by lunch is not something that I often talk about in the discovery phase because it's kind of like, it, it, it, it actually can be alienating.
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Some people say, I don't wanna be done by lunch, or, must be nice.
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I could never be done by lunch.
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You know, um, people who love what they do, they're like, I love working.
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I wanna work all the time, but.
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The idea, the the Done by Lunch philosophy.
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And we call it that because the idea is that you can build your business out of high leverage assets like podcasts and YouTube like we mentioned, so that you can run your business in half the time and be done by lunch and move on to other things that give you joy and purpose, that also give you joy and purpose.
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And so, um, this started because I stopped working after lunch on Fridays, and then I just sort of.
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Started removing more afternoons and now I, most days I don't work, um, after lunch.
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And I, at first I, you know, clients would ask like, how are you so efficient?
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How do you get so much done?
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And I would be like, oh.
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'cause I'm sort of an efficiency geek.
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I'd be like, oh, here's how I arranged my calendar and I batch create my content.
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And I realized a couple years ago, I was like, it's not that at all.
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It's'cause of YouTube.
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It's because of a podcast.
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It's about these high leverage assets.
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So the beauty of this is, let me give a a quick background on that.
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So all our businesses have three things.
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We need traffic, new people coming to us.
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We need conversion, a way for people to become our client's, customers, students, members.
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And then we need delivery, a way to deliver.
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Those products.
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And so the more of those three areas, traffic, conversion, delivery that we can replace with a high leverage asset or a high leverage way of making it happen, then the less we have to work or the more that we can grow.
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So sticking with YouTube and podcasting as example, if you build up a YouTube channel and a podcast over time and you know it becomes more valuable, the more content you put out.
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I have YouTube videos from seven years ago that are still getting views.
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I have YouTube videos from five years ago that are still in my top 10 most viewed videos.
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Every single week that bring me new audience members and, and new leads.
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And so it's very high leverage as opposed to what I used to do.
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Go into Facebook groups, chat with people, try and help them with their problems.
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And it works.
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It got leads, but it was a very low leverage way.
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So, so that's the overall idea there.
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So back to what you said about the date framework is when you build in this way and you put out these high leverage assets to take people through.
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Traffic to conversion to delivery.
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You essentially can meet people where they are.
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So someone can find me on YouTube and hopefully in the, whatever the first video they watched, they get value out of it.
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Then they maybe watch a couple of other videos and then they see me say.
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Um, you know, hey, do you want to learn more about this?
00:15:56.028 --> 00:16:04.788
I have this free masterclass, or I have this email series where we'll teach you all about podcasting and all they have to do then is go sign up for it, right?
00:16:04.788 --> 00:16:05.807
And I'm hands off.
00:16:05.988 --> 00:16:07.457
It's there, it's automated.
00:16:07.758 --> 00:16:09.107
I don't have to like.
00:16:09.347 --> 00:16:14.388
Have them join my email list and then in two months I'm like, Hey, is anybody interested in podcasting still?
00:16:14.388 --> 00:16:16.067
Maybe you were two months ago.
00:16:16.368 --> 00:16:20.837
Um, and then I have conversion mechanisms too, where people can sign up and join a program.
00:16:20.837 --> 00:16:27.977
So when you put this stuff out there, it builds it so that somebody can go from stranger to buyer.
00:16:28.337 --> 00:16:29.687
Literally in the same day.
00:16:29.717 --> 00:16:31.128
And I have people tell me that all the time.
00:16:31.368 --> 00:16:34.908
I'll see'em join one of my programs and I'm like, oh, cool, you know, great to meet you.
00:16:34.908 --> 00:16:35.868
Do you remember where you found me?
00:16:35.868 --> 00:16:37.758
And they're like, yeah, this morning in a YouTube video.
00:16:38.687 --> 00:16:40.548
And so it's this really cool feeling.
00:16:40.548 --> 00:16:42.977
So that's the idea behind high leverage.
00:16:42.977 --> 00:16:43.878
We set that stuff up.
00:16:43.878 --> 00:16:49.337
Now if you do one-on-one work, then you know the delivery part is not necessarily gonna be high leverage.
00:16:49.337 --> 00:16:50.778
But even if you add the other pieces.
00:16:51.003 --> 00:16:52.682
It still works incredibly.
00:16:52.893 --> 00:16:56.913
Um, if you do, let's say for conversion, you do discovery calls or sales calls.
00:16:57.182 --> 00:17:03.722
Again, if you're doing one-on-one discovery calls or sales calls, not necessarily high leverage, but there are other things you can do to make them more high leverage.
00:17:03.722 --> 00:17:08.133
Make sure that the, the people who get on the calls are actually the right people and different things like that.
00:17:09.057 --> 00:17:09.567
Absolutely.
00:17:09.567 --> 00:17:15.538
And having that messaging spot on makes sure that that's happening and the right people are taking the actions at the stages you need them to.
00:17:16.712 --> 00:17:21.663
I think when we first met, I told you, I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad you do what you do because people need this all the time.
00:17:21.663 --> 00:17:27.573
And when I was working primarily with people on social media, they'd come in and they're like, how do I get more views on Instagram?
00:17:27.573 --> 00:17:29.583
And I'm like, well, we, we gotta back up here.
00:17:29.732 --> 00:17:35.073
We have a messaging problem first, because when the messaging works, everything else works 10 times better.
00:17:36.333 --> 00:17:36.663
Yeah.
00:17:36.722 --> 00:17:37.442
Absolutely.
00:17:37.472 --> 00:17:38.282
Absolutely.
00:17:38.853 --> 00:17:45.603
Um, other thing, the other thing I picked up on there was you were saying at the beginning of that, that done by lunch doesn't resonate with everyone.
00:17:46.323 --> 00:17:46.613
Yeah.
00:17:46.712 --> 00:17:48.512
for example, if I look at done by lunch.
00:17:48.992 --> 00:17:54.452
I don't start work till like maybe nearly 10 o'clock'cause I have to drop the kids at school first, then I have to
00:17:54.502 --> 00:17:54.792
Yeah.
00:17:54.932 --> 00:17:57.272
and tidy up the mess they've made, et cetera, et cetera.
00:17:57.692 --> 00:18:00.452
So yeah, done by lunch for me would be like working two hours a day.
00:18:00.722 --> 00:18:08.343
But I see that, and I think I flip that and put it into my own life for me that for me, you are done by lunch is working school hours.
00:18:09.182 --> 00:18:09.603
so it's
00:18:09.857 --> 00:18:09.917
Yeah.
00:18:10.383 --> 00:18:12.123
and ideally not all the school hours either.
00:18:12.123 --> 00:18:14.613
I'd like to have a bit of time to do other stuff as well during the day.
00:18:14.762 --> 00:18:16.413
Yeah, get your own time in.
00:18:17.042 --> 00:18:22.143
Yeah, and I tell people, I'm like, if, if done by lunch is one to 5:00 AM for you, that's fine.
00:18:22.143 --> 00:18:23.613
Like whatever that is for you.
00:18:23.823 --> 00:18:32.134
I will say having a hard stop time, like for me it's lunch because I do love what I do and if that wasn't there, like if I tried to be.
00:18:32.847 --> 00:18:38.607
Done by two, then I would just keep working 2 15, 2 30 because I like what I'm doing.
00:18:38.907 --> 00:18:50.458
Um, but if I do done by lunch or I do done, by the time it's school pickup happens, which is kind of what I started with before lunch, then that really makes a difference and it forces us to get what we need to get done in that limited time.
00:18:50.458 --> 00:18:51.718
What is, is it Parkinson's law?
00:18:51.718 --> 00:18:55.167
Your work will expand to fill the time that you give it.
00:18:55.438 --> 00:18:59.788
And so by having a hard out, it really makes a big difference in how much you can get done.
00:19:00.673 --> 00:19:01.383
Definitely.
00:19:01.742 --> 00:19:03.512
Oh, well, Jerry, that has been absolutely fantastic.
00:19:03.512 --> 00:19:05.313
Thank you so much for sharing all of that today.
00:19:05.522 --> 00:19:08.673
I like, I'm gonna, I've said this to a few of my guests.
00:19:08.673 --> 00:19:14.492
Actually, I'm gonna have to listen back to the episode myself so I can get my pen out and make all the notes, because every time I talk to you I learn so much more.
00:19:15.722 --> 00:19:22.113
But, um, yeah, um, if people want to find out more about you, follow you, anything like that, um, where can they find you?
00:19:22.113 --> 00:19:22.863
Where are they best to go?
00:19:23.373 --> 00:19:26.732
Uh, if you want to find me on YouTube, you can just search for my name.
00:19:26.732 --> 00:19:28.173
Jerry Potter should come up.
00:19:28.232 --> 00:19:37.682
Uh, and if you want to, if, if you're already feeling like you're in the talking phase or enchanted at this point, um, I encourage you to join our Done By Lunch Entrepreneurs Newsletter.
00:19:37.982 --> 00:19:40.323
Uh, and you can do that@donebylunch.co.
00:19:40.952 --> 00:19:41.907
Done by lunch.co.
00:19:42.903 --> 00:19:45.873
Lovely, and we'll put all those note, uh, all those links in the show notes.
00:19:46.113 --> 00:19:46.833
I love your emails.
00:19:46.833 --> 00:19:48.363
They're always, uh, always entertaining.
00:19:48.363 --> 00:19:49.173
Always entertaining
00:19:50.387 --> 00:19:50.688
Good.
00:19:50.688 --> 00:19:51.288
Glad to hear it.
00:19:54.002 --> 00:19:55.262
Oh, thank you so much, Jerry.
00:19:55.532 --> 00:19:58.593
Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm sure we'll be speaking again soon.
00:19:59.268 --> 00:19:59.988
Sounds good.
00:19:59.988 --> 00:20:00.708
Thank you, Katie.
00:20:02.113 --> 00:20:10.242
That was Jerry Potter, and I'm sure you will join me in thanking Jerry for coming on and sharing all that wisdom with us on the Upside Up Marketing podcast.
00:20:10.482 --> 00:20:14.982
I'll make sure I put the links that he, uh, mentioned in the show notes so you can go and check him out.
00:20:15.313 --> 00:20:19.452
Um, and I highly, highly recommend you go and check out his YouTube actually, it's really, really good.
00:20:19.512 --> 00:20:26.532
Um, actionable, excellent advice on how to build a more efficient business and.
00:20:26.952 --> 00:20:33.553
Nice short videos as well to the point he extends this philosophy to the way he interacts with his audience and clients as well.
00:20:33.553 --> 00:20:35.593
So, um, yeah, absolutely fantastic guest.
00:20:35.742 --> 00:20:37.782
I'm really loving having these guests on the podcast.
00:20:37.992 --> 00:20:41.357
Do let me know if there's anyone you would like to hear from or any topics you would like to hear.
00:20:42.117 --> 00:20:51.208
Um, and just a note for anyone watching on YouTube, if you are audio only, you probably wouldn't have noticed this, but I actually forgot to record the outro when I recorded that episode.
00:20:51.208 --> 00:21:01.738
So, uh, I'm recording it now like a couple of days before the episode's released and, um, I thought you might not notice if I put the same t-shirt on forgetting I was in a completely different location.
00:21:01.738 --> 00:21:03.298
So the background has changed completely.
00:21:03.387 --> 00:21:05.998
So if you spotted that, well done Eagle eyes.
00:21:06.538 --> 00:21:08.458
Um, that's it for this week.
00:21:08.518 --> 00:21:12.008
Make sure you hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes we have.
00:21:12.067 --> 00:21:26.768
Um, I'm not sure what's coming up next week'cause I haven't written it yet, but the week after, we got another amazing guest where we'll be talking about, um, how to make the most of your networking in terms of learning about your people, improving your message and building your business.
00:21:26.978 --> 00:21:29.107
So, um, really, really looking forward to that.
00:21:29.107 --> 00:21:31.958
Make sure you hit subscribe and I will see you next time.
00:00:00.510 --> 00:00:13.679
If someone you'd never met before walked up to you in the street and asked you to marry them, how likely is it you would say yes and yet we put out content expecting people who have never heard from us to spend money and buy from us.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:14.730
Sometimes a lot of money.
00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:20.739
Matching what you are saying to where your ideal client is in their journey of discovery with you.
00:00:20.890 --> 00:00:27.519
It is so, so important to making that connection, fostering that relationship, and ultimately getting sales.
00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:41.329
My guest today is here to tell us all about that, the different stages of the relationship, what we should be saying at each, and also how we can harness this to build a business that allows us to make more money and less time so that we can be done by lunch.
00:00:41.969 --> 00:00:44.939
Today I'm thrilled to be welcoming Jerry Potter as our guest.
00:00:45.179 --> 00:00:47.460
Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing podcast.
00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:54.509
Using marketing to persuade people to buy your thing is hard, icky, and not an effective use of your time.
00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:56.759
It's an upside down way of doing things.
00:00:57.509 --> 00:01:04.769
Introducing upside up marketing, helping you create offers people want to buy and share them in a way that feels good.
00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:06.629
All over a nice cup of tea.
00:01:08.112 --> 00:01:12.912
Welcome to the Upside Up Marketing podcast, and this week I am delighted to have Jerry Potter with us.
00:01:12.972 --> 00:01:15.162
Uh, Jerry, would you like to tell everyone a bit about yourself?
00:01:15.942 --> 00:01:16.903
Uh, sure.
00:01:16.903 --> 00:01:25.572
I, um, my, my main obsession, my brain's main obsession I've discovered is doing things in the highest leverage way possible in our businesses.
00:01:25.783 --> 00:01:28.063
And so now I help other people do that as well.
00:01:28.063 --> 00:01:38.953
There's a lot of low leverage ways to do things in entrepreneurship, which lead to burnout, and I primarily do that through YouTube and podcasting because the biggest thing we need in our business before we can kind of go.
00:01:39.362 --> 00:01:52.143
Ah is consistent lead generation and audience growth, so primarily YouTube and podcasting, which I love and I, my biggest mission is to help people finish, like help people get their business out there before they burn out.
00:01:53.643 --> 00:01:53.972
Brilliant.
00:01:53.972 --> 00:01:58.772
And for context for everyone listening, um, Jerry is the reason I have a podcast.
00:01:58.772 --> 00:02:08.402
If it wasn't for his teaching, I probably would never have bothered'cause it sounded like so much hard work and he really broke, broke it down and made it something that was not only doable, but something I actually did.
00:02:08.552 --> 00:02:08.733
So.
00:02:11.883 --> 00:02:20.733
So, yeah, I thought it'd be great to get you on, Jerry, to talk about some of the ideas I've learned from you over the years of working with you that I think would be really, really useful for the listeners of this podcast.
00:02:21.212 --> 00:02:30.483
And, um, one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast is communicating with our ideal clients and making sure we're getting our messaging right and things like that.
00:02:30.782 --> 00:02:36.603
And one thing that I learned from you specifically was about how.
00:02:36.978 --> 00:02:42.437
Different people are hitting our content at different stages and those people need different messages.
00:02:42.798 --> 00:02:46.337
Um, and I think that's something that'd be really useful to share with listeners.
00:02:46.337 --> 00:02:49.518
So, um, you've got your date framework, I think you call it.
00:02:49.812 --> 00:02:50.233
Mm-hmm.
00:02:50.328 --> 00:02:56.268
you for you to explain a bit about that and how it sort of helps you the right people at the right time with the right message.
00:02:56.913 --> 00:02:57.152
Yeah.
00:02:57.152 --> 00:03:05.342
Well, one of the most challenging things in marketing and with our messaging is you can't always control when somebody's going to hear something.
00:03:05.643 --> 00:03:16.532
So if all of a sudden you're launching this$10,000 product right after someone signed up for your email list, or right after someone decided to follow you on Facebook or Instagram and you're like, Hey, last chance$10,000.
00:03:16.532 --> 00:03:16.953
And they're like, I.
00:03:17.157 --> 00:03:18.987
Barely know you, right?
00:03:18.987 --> 00:03:28.437
That's gonna fall on deaf ears and on the social media side, which is when I develop this framework, they'll, they won't engage, and then the algorithms will basically stop showing them your stuff.
00:03:28.707 --> 00:03:31.617
So we have to think about different people in different places.
00:03:31.617 --> 00:03:33.298
And so the Date framework is an acronym.
00:03:33.568 --> 00:03:36.508
Uh, it stands for Discovery, acquaintance Talking and Enchanted.
00:03:36.627 --> 00:03:37.918
And the short version is.
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In the beginning, somebody discovers us.
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That's what we want, right?
00:03:41.237 --> 00:03:44.538
But we have to talk to them like they don't know who we are yet.
00:03:44.538 --> 00:03:47.207
They don't like us, they don't trust us like they are.
00:03:47.237 --> 00:03:55.008
We are brand new to them, and so we kinda have to earn their trust or at least a little bit of likability before we can start having the next conversation.
00:03:55.457 --> 00:04:02.237
The second stage is a, which is for acquaintance, and I look at acquaintance, kind of like, you know, you and I are both parents.
00:04:02.237 --> 00:04:06.677
I kind of look at it like the, the parent you see across the parking lot at school pickup, and you're like, Hey.
00:04:07.078 --> 00:04:09.538
Bill will, I think you work in real estate, right?
00:04:09.777 --> 00:04:14.578
So at this stage, the customer kind of knows who you are, kind of knows what you do.
00:04:14.578 --> 00:04:19.137
They don't know your inside jargon, they don't know your, you know, frameworks.
00:04:19.137 --> 00:04:20.278
They don't know any of that stuff.
00:04:20.278 --> 00:04:22.437
So again, we don't want to bombard them with that yet.
00:04:22.997 --> 00:04:30.918
The third phase I call the talking phase, and this is where the conversation actually starts with you and your future client or customer.
00:04:31.127 --> 00:04:41.867
Now, it could be an actual conversation like you're emailing back and forth, or you got on a call or you're DMing, or in some cases if you use content marketing like Katie does with her podcast.
00:04:42.137 --> 00:04:47.418
I'm sitting here listening to her podcast and I'm kind of nodding along to what she's saying because I agree with it.
00:04:47.637 --> 00:04:49.048
That is that conversation.
00:04:49.048 --> 00:04:50.247
I am now talking to Katie.
00:04:50.247 --> 00:04:51.298
She doesn't know it yet.
00:04:51.298 --> 00:04:53.968
She might be weirded out by it, but I am now talking to Katie.
00:04:53.968 --> 00:04:55.677
So, so that's the talking phase.
00:04:55.677 --> 00:04:59.158
And then the last phase, uh, the e in date I call the enchanted phase.
00:04:59.367 --> 00:05:03.088
And this is where they're pretty much like, man, they're great and I'm.
00:05:03.108 --> 00:05:06.288
I'm probably gonna buy from them at some point, right?
00:05:06.288 --> 00:05:13.757
We've all kind of come across somebody and they're like, oh, next time they do this, or next time I'm at the store and they see this product, like, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much gonna get that.
00:05:14.088 --> 00:05:18.168
And at this point, obviously they know us, they like us, they trust us.
00:05:18.168 --> 00:05:19.218
They may love us.
00:05:19.278 --> 00:05:23.598
You know, I, I sort of equate it to, at this point, they're like, I'm gonna ask that person out on that date.
00:05:23.927 --> 00:05:26.233
And sometimes they're just waiting for.
00:05:26.767 --> 00:05:31.237
Uh, an offer to come out the right offer or, you know, the opportunity to be right.
00:05:31.298 --> 00:05:35.348
So, but once somebody is enchanted, it's kind of like our sale to lose at that point.
00:05:36.978 --> 00:05:37.548
Amazing.
00:05:37.548 --> 00:05:45.348
And, um, do we deal with it with, like, for example, this podcast, might find it and it is the first time they've seen me,
00:05:45.653 --> 00:05:46.072
Mm-hmm.
00:05:46.187 --> 00:05:47.958
time, you know, I share it with my email list.
00:05:47.958 --> 00:05:51.737
These people might have been following me for years and they're listening to it as well.
00:05:51.737 --> 00:05:55.158
How do we serve the needs of both audiences through one bit of content?
00:05:55.923 --> 00:06:03.362
Yeah, it's a little bit different depending on the type of content, because obviously if this show is going the way that you want, you have new people every time.
00:06:03.362 --> 00:06:06.512
And then you also have loyal people that have binged every episode, right?
00:06:06.572 --> 00:06:08.132
And they're like, okay, what's Katie gonna say?
00:06:08.132 --> 00:06:10.562
Now I can't wait to to listen, so I.
00:06:11.052 --> 00:06:28.483
When I developed the date framework, it was actually designed for social media because we had this unique opportunity on social media, which still exists, where if you were making short form videos, so that could be tiktoks reels on Facebook and Instagram, YouTube shorts, uh, vertical videos, under two minutes on LinkedIn, they can reach people who don't know who we are yet.
00:06:28.872 --> 00:06:33.612
So when we made those, we would talk to people, uh, in that way.
00:06:33.913 --> 00:06:37.572
And the important thing when somebody doesn't know you yet is you have to give value.
00:06:37.572 --> 00:06:38.562
That's how we earn.
00:06:38.927 --> 00:06:40.398
The no, like trust factor, right?
00:06:40.398 --> 00:06:43.278
You can't just come out and be like, Hey, I've got this$10,000 offer, right?
00:06:43.278 --> 00:06:44.958
So, so you start by giving value.
00:06:45.228 --> 00:06:49.307
Then in the acquaintance phase on social media, that usually will fall in the feed posts.
00:06:49.307 --> 00:06:52.788
Somebody's decided to follow you at this point, they kind of know what you're about.
00:06:52.997 --> 00:06:59.327
So you can talk to'em a little bit differently once they kind of get into that, um, that specific acquaintance phase.
00:06:59.687 --> 00:07:02.093
And with that, I kind of look at it as.
00:07:02.463 --> 00:07:07.802
You know, this is where you wanna start to shift some of the major beliefs around what you do.
00:07:07.983 --> 00:07:10.202
Uh, you know, what you offer, different things like that.
00:07:10.202 --> 00:07:18.093
So it's not the moment that you are going to, again, change everything that they know and think, but you wanna at least start talking about it.
00:07:18.122 --> 00:07:23.492
And you also wanna start talking about the what and why of your solution, not necessarily the how.
00:07:23.523 --> 00:07:25.742
'cause again, you're just trying to get them to open up to it.
00:07:26.163 --> 00:07:29.523
The main goal in that acquaintance phase is to get them.
00:07:29.543 --> 00:07:30.593
Talking to you.
00:07:30.952 --> 00:07:38.242
Uh, and so that's why you start talking about these things so that they wanna know more, they wanna reach out, they want to book a call, they want to reply to an email, different things like that.
00:07:38.543 --> 00:07:41.333
Um, talking phase is all about talking, right?
00:07:41.483 --> 00:07:46.583
Um, this is where somebody has already, you know, decided like they know what you do, they know what you offer.
00:07:46.583 --> 00:07:47.033
They may not know.
00:07:47.197 --> 00:07:54.877
All of the details, but they at least know enough that they're kind of like, okay, yeah, this is one of the options I'm considering is kind of the way to look at it.
00:07:54.937 --> 00:07:57.307
And then enchanted, it's all about making good offers.
00:07:57.307 --> 00:08:03.338
So on social media, you can do like discovery and short form videos, feed posts I look at as the acquaintance content.
00:08:03.567 --> 00:08:09.387
Um, you know, Instagram stories, Facebook stories, uh, in the comments section, those are obviously all talking.
00:08:09.598 --> 00:08:10.858
And then enchanted.
00:08:10.858 --> 00:08:15.867
Usually for most businesses, by then you're on a discovery call or you're moving to your email list or something like that.
00:08:15.867 --> 00:08:17.788
So it works well on social media.
00:08:18.088 --> 00:08:21.117
It's a little more challenging when you're talking about a podcast episode, and so I.
00:08:21.903 --> 00:08:32.043
With this, I sort of draw on the way that I did it as a radio personality where when I was a morning presenter, we had to assume some people knew who we were, some people didn't every single time.
00:08:32.493 --> 00:08:37.293
And so in your pod, we'll use your podcast as, as the example.
00:08:37.442 --> 00:08:39.123
Um, you always want to be giving value.
00:08:39.503 --> 00:08:42.743
Um, you always want to be shifting beliefs.
00:08:43.163 --> 00:08:49.763
You don't want to be using too much inside jargon or frameworks unless you take the time to explain it.
00:08:50.062 --> 00:08:53.873
So we're sort of taking the same things that we're talking about that take somebody through a buyer journey.
00:08:54.143 --> 00:08:55.763
We are just not.
00:08:56.337 --> 00:09:01.408
You know, like we're not assuming somebody already knows, like in my world, that somebody already knows what the date framework is.
00:09:01.918 --> 00:09:09.268
And so the good news is with longer content like this, even though your episodes are really succinct, although I might be making this one too long right now, I don't know.
00:09:09.418 --> 00:09:20.638
But even though your episodes are really succinct, they, you know, they do like when somebody is willing to spend that much time with you, you can kind of take them through all of the phases in one place.
00:09:20.638 --> 00:09:23.998
And so the main goal is to provide value to the new people.
00:09:24.602 --> 00:09:27.993
Don't alienate, uh, the new people by, you know, using things.
00:09:27.993 --> 00:09:30.543
They don't know what you're talking about unless you explain them.
00:09:31.937 --> 00:09:33.378
That's great advice and.
00:09:33.873 --> 00:09:35.673
Uh, yeah, I see what you mean.
00:09:35.673 --> 00:09:38.972
Like when you've got the more time with the content, you can go through the phases.
00:09:38.972 --> 00:09:41.702
Just make sure you don't leave people behind and bring people with you.
00:09:42.302 --> 00:09:48.212
Um, one thing that I talk about a lot is the importance of being specific
00:09:48.768 --> 00:09:49.187
Mm-hmm.
00:09:49.442 --> 00:09:54.092
that are listening or reading or watching, whatever, know that you are talking to them.
00:09:54.812 --> 00:10:01.533
Um, do you think that this applies equally at every stage of the framework or is this something that you know, is sort of.
00:10:02.222 --> 00:10:06.212
You're super specific to get people in and then as you move on, you can get vaguer or the other way round.
00:10:06.212 --> 00:10:13.232
Maybe you bring them in on quite a vague premise, but then as you get them along the, hate the word funnel, but you know what I mean, if I say it,
00:10:13.248 --> 00:10:14.893
Yeah, I.
00:10:14.972 --> 00:10:18.628
that's when you're getting more and more specific as to this is, you know who this is actually for.
00:10:19.607 --> 00:10:22.008
Yeah, I'm glad you said funnel, so I didn't have to.
00:10:22.097 --> 00:10:34.307
Um, I think that, uh, I think, you know, you do kind of look at it, you know, if you're thinking about the date and them coming along and you're courting them, you do start with a wider pool at the top, and then you get more narrow.
00:10:34.638 --> 00:10:44.837
And so I think in the very beginning, like in that discovery phase, you don't wanna necessarily be saying things that completely rule people out that might be a good fit Now.
00:10:45.048 --> 00:10:49.788
That being said, I'm all with you on specificity and sometimes the more specific you can be.
00:10:49.878 --> 00:10:55.697
People know exactly who you're talking to, so I don't want to say, oh, in the beginning you should feel like you're serving everybody.
00:10:55.967 --> 00:11:08.778
But one of the things that we talk about when you get to the Talking in the Enchanted phase, these are great opportunities to then share kind of your values, your why, what you are about, because often those are the things that make somebody.
00:11:09.243 --> 00:11:10.863
Enchanted with you, right?
00:11:11.043 --> 00:11:20.013
Because they all of a sudden go, yes, I agree with that, or I'm on this same mission, or, yes, we're both trying to run businesses as parents and it's challenging, or whatever it might be.
00:11:21.413 --> 00:11:22.253
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:11:22.253 --> 00:11:23.812
So you bring them in.
00:11:24.798 --> 00:11:34.457
I guess you are almost bringing them in by showing them that you solve the problem they have, and then as they go through, you're showing them how you solve it and the values you have and the sort of person you'd be like to work with.
00:11:34.457 --> 00:11:39.197
And that's when you're sort of, I guess, filtering out the people that wouldn't be the right fit for the uh, offer.
00:11:40.202 --> 00:11:52.623
Yeah, there's been, um, for years now, they've shown that younger generations are more willing to spend money on a company or a business where their values are aligned than one, that they're not aligned.
00:11:52.802 --> 00:11:55.202
And so it can create incredible loyalty.
00:11:55.202 --> 00:11:55.592
It can, I.
00:11:55.863 --> 00:12:01.863
Definitely fast track that enchanted moment by sharing our values and, and different things that we're about.
00:12:01.863 --> 00:12:04.773
And I know if you're a brand new entrepreneur, this is exactly how I was.
00:12:04.773 --> 00:12:06.452
I was like, well, I don't want anyone to not like me.
00:12:06.452 --> 00:12:10.923
Plus I'm a recovering people pleaser and I, and I have to earn a living and, you know, all of those things.
00:12:10.923 --> 00:12:12.998
But you really will build more.
00:12:13.758 --> 00:12:19.187
Loyal people in your world by leaning into some of that stuff and how controversial you wanna get.
00:12:19.187 --> 00:12:34.998
Like if you want to get into politics, that works for some people, but it doesn't have to be that sometimes people just bond over a love of, of, like, I have a, a friend who's a personal brand photographer and she talks about how much she loves Oreo cookies all the time, and people connect with her over that.
00:12:35.327 --> 00:12:39.857
So it doesn't have to be, you know, this huge like controversial stance.
00:12:41.432 --> 00:12:42.003
Amazing.
00:12:42.307 --> 00:12:50.253
Um, one of the things that this, getting this messaging right, making your marketing more effective.
00:12:50.898 --> 00:12:54.618
Thereby, meaning you don't have to spend so much time on it.
00:12:54.618 --> 00:12:55.398
Potentially.
00:12:55.488 --> 00:12:57.077
I'm segue in here to,
00:12:57.298 --> 00:13:12.888
Mm-hmm.
00:13:13.113 --> 00:13:19.802
spot on, getting, getting the messaging to the right people at the right time, making your marketing more effective, how does this, um, help you with this?
00:13:19.802 --> 00:13:26.432
And yeah, if you want to throw in a bit there about what the done by Lunch theory is, approach is then uh, that'd be great too.
00:13:27.018 --> 00:13:27.378
Yeah.
00:13:27.378 --> 00:13:35.988
Well, and thank you for bringing that up because done by lunch is not something that I often talk about in the discovery phase because it's kind of like, it, it, it, it actually can be alienating.
00:13:35.988 --> 00:13:39.317
Some people say, I don't wanna be done by lunch, or, must be nice.
00:13:39.317 --> 00:13:40.577
I could never be done by lunch.
00:13:40.577 --> 00:13:43.548
You know, um, people who love what they do, they're like, I love working.
00:13:43.548 --> 00:13:44.868
I wanna work all the time, but.
00:13:45.092 --> 00:13:47.342
The idea, the the Done by Lunch philosophy.
00:13:47.342 --> 00:14:01.623
And we call it that because the idea is that you can build your business out of high leverage assets like podcasts and YouTube like we mentioned, so that you can run your business in half the time and be done by lunch and move on to other things that give you joy and purpose, that also give you joy and purpose.
00:14:01.682 --> 00:14:07.113
And so, um, this started because I stopped working after lunch on Fridays, and then I just sort of.
00:14:07.322 --> 00:14:12.182
Started removing more afternoons and now I, most days I don't work, um, after lunch.
00:14:12.243 --> 00:14:15.543
And I, at first I, you know, clients would ask like, how are you so efficient?
00:14:15.543 --> 00:14:16.533
How do you get so much done?
00:14:16.533 --> 00:14:17.342
And I would be like, oh.
00:14:17.523 --> 00:14:18.842
'cause I'm sort of an efficiency geek.
00:14:18.842 --> 00:14:22.113
I'd be like, oh, here's how I arranged my calendar and I batch create my content.
00:14:22.173 --> 00:14:24.722
And I realized a couple years ago, I was like, it's not that at all.
00:14:24.923 --> 00:14:25.898
It's'cause of YouTube.
00:14:26.107 --> 00:14:27.187
It's because of a podcast.
00:14:27.187 --> 00:14:29.107
It's about these high leverage assets.
00:14:29.408 --> 00:14:33.398
So the beauty of this is, let me give a a quick background on that.
00:14:33.518 --> 00:14:35.077
So all our businesses have three things.
00:14:35.347 --> 00:14:37.298
We need traffic, new people coming to us.
00:14:37.298 --> 00:14:42.368
We need conversion, a way for people to become our client's, customers, students, members.
00:14:42.457 --> 00:14:44.648
And then we need delivery, a way to deliver.
00:14:44.663 --> 00:14:45.562
Those products.
00:14:45.832 --> 00:14:56.602
And so the more of those three areas, traffic, conversion, delivery that we can replace with a high leverage asset or a high leverage way of making it happen, then the less we have to work or the more that we can grow.
00:14:56.783 --> 00:15:04.913
So sticking with YouTube and podcasting as example, if you build up a YouTube channel and a podcast over time and you know it becomes more valuable, the more content you put out.
00:15:05.062 --> 00:15:08.092
I have YouTube videos from seven years ago that are still getting views.
00:15:08.092 --> 00:15:12.503
I have YouTube videos from five years ago that are still in my top 10 most viewed videos.
00:15:12.543 --> 00:15:16.232
Every single week that bring me new audience members and, and new leads.
00:15:16.232 --> 00:15:19.232
And so it's very high leverage as opposed to what I used to do.
00:15:19.442 --> 00:15:22.533
Go into Facebook groups, chat with people, try and help them with their problems.
00:15:22.533 --> 00:15:23.552
And it works.
00:15:23.582 --> 00:15:25.442
It got leads, but it was a very low leverage way.
00:15:25.442 --> 00:15:27.243
So, so that's the overall idea there.
00:15:27.243 --> 00:15:37.143
So back to what you said about the date framework is when you build in this way and you put out these high leverage assets to take people through.
00:15:37.832 --> 00:15:39.842
Traffic to conversion to delivery.
00:15:40.232 --> 00:15:42.783
You essentially can meet people where they are.
00:15:43.322 --> 00:15:49.592
So someone can find me on YouTube and hopefully in the, whatever the first video they watched, they get value out of it.
00:15:49.863 --> 00:15:52.832
Then they maybe watch a couple of other videos and then they see me say.
00:15:53.057 --> 00:15:56.028
Um, you know, hey, do you want to learn more about this?
00:15:56.028 --> 00:16:04.788
I have this free masterclass, or I have this email series where we'll teach you all about podcasting and all they have to do then is go sign up for it, right?
00:16:04.788 --> 00:16:05.807
And I'm hands off.
00:16:05.988 --> 00:16:07.457
It's there, it's automated.
00:16:07.758 --> 00:16:09.107
I don't have to like.
00:16:09.347 --> 00:16:14.388
Have them join my email list and then in two months I'm like, Hey, is anybody interested in podcasting still?
00:16:14.388 --> 00:16:16.067
Maybe you were two months ago.
00:16:16.368 --> 00:16:20.837
Um, and then I have conversion mechanisms too, where people can sign up and join a program.
00:16:20.837 --> 00:16:27.977
So when you put this stuff out there, it builds it so that somebody can go from stranger to buyer.
00:16:28.337 --> 00:16:29.687
Literally in the same day.
00:16:29.717 --> 00:16:31.128
And I have people tell me that all the time.
00:16:31.368 --> 00:16:34.908
I'll see'em join one of my programs and I'm like, oh, cool, you know, great to meet you.
00:16:34.908 --> 00:16:35.868
Do you remember where you found me?
00:16:35.868 --> 00:16:37.758
And they're like, yeah, this morning in a YouTube video.
00:16:38.687 --> 00:16:40.548
And so it's this really cool feeling.
00:16:40.548 --> 00:16:42.977
So that's the idea behind high leverage.
00:16:42.977 --> 00:16:43.878
We set that stuff up.
00:16:43.878 --> 00:16:49.337
Now if you do one-on-one work, then you know the delivery part is not necessarily gonna be high leverage.
00:16:49.337 --> 00:16:50.778
But even if you add the other pieces.
00:16:51.003 --> 00:16:52.682
It still works incredibly.
00:16:52.893 --> 00:16:56.913
Um, if you do, let's say for conversion, you do discovery calls or sales calls.
00:16:57.182 --> 00:17:03.722
Again, if you're doing one-on-one discovery calls or sales calls, not necessarily high leverage, but there are other things you can do to make them more high leverage.
00:17:03.722 --> 00:17:08.133
Make sure that the, the people who get on the calls are actually the right people and different things like that.
00:17:09.057 --> 00:17:09.567
Absolutely.
00:17:09.567 --> 00:17:15.538
And having that messaging spot on makes sure that that's happening and the right people are taking the actions at the stages you need them to.
00:17:16.712 --> 00:17:21.663
I think when we first met, I told you, I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad you do what you do because people need this all the time.
00:17:21.663 --> 00:17:27.573
And when I was working primarily with people on social media, they'd come in and they're like, how do I get more views on Instagram?
00:17:27.573 --> 00:17:29.583
And I'm like, well, we, we gotta back up here.
00:17:29.732 --> 00:17:35.073
We have a messaging problem first, because when the messaging works, everything else works 10 times better.
00:17:36.333 --> 00:17:36.663
Yeah.
00:17:36.722 --> 00:17:37.442
Absolutely.
00:17:37.472 --> 00:17:38.282
Absolutely.
00:17:38.853 --> 00:17:45.603
Um, other thing, the other thing I picked up on there was you were saying at the beginning of that, that done by lunch doesn't resonate with everyone.
00:17:46.323 --> 00:17:46.613
Yeah.
00:17:46.712 --> 00:17:48.512
for example, if I look at done by lunch.
00:17:48.992 --> 00:17:54.452
I don't start work till like maybe nearly 10 o'clock'cause I have to drop the kids at school first, then I have to
00:17:54.502 --> 00:17:54.792
Yeah.
00:17:54.932 --> 00:17:57.272
and tidy up the mess they've made, et cetera, et cetera.
00:17:57.692 --> 00:18:00.452
So yeah, done by lunch for me would be like working two hours a day.
00:18:00.722 --> 00:18:08.343
But I see that, and I think I flip that and put it into my own life for me that for me, you are done by lunch is working school hours.
00:18:09.182 --> 00:18:09.603
so it's
00:18:09.857 --> 00:18:09.917
Yeah.
00:18:10.383 --> 00:18:12.123
and ideally not all the school hours either.
00:18:12.123 --> 00:18:14.613
I'd like to have a bit of time to do other stuff as well during the day.
00:18:14.762 --> 00:18:16.413
Yeah, get your own time in.
00:18:17.042 --> 00:18:22.143
Yeah, and I tell people, I'm like, if, if done by lunch is one to 5:00 AM for you, that's fine.
00:18:22.143 --> 00:18:23.613
Like whatever that is for you.
00:18:23.823 --> 00:18:32.134
I will say having a hard stop time, like for me it's lunch because I do love what I do and if that wasn't there, like if I tried to be.
00:18:32.847 --> 00:18:38.607
Done by two, then I would just keep working 2 15, 2 30 because I like what I'm doing.
00:18:38.907 --> 00:18:50.458
Um, but if I do done by lunch or I do done, by the time it's school pickup happens, which is kind of what I started with before lunch, then that really makes a difference and it forces us to get what we need to get done in that limited time.
00:18:50.458 --> 00:18:51.718
What is, is it Parkinson's law?
00:18:51.718 --> 00:18:55.167
Your work will expand to fill the time that you give it.
00:18:55.438 --> 00:18:59.788
And so by having a hard out, it really makes a big difference in how much you can get done.
00:19:00.673 --> 00:19:01.383
Definitely.
00:19:01.742 --> 00:19:03.512
Oh, well, Jerry, that has been absolutely fantastic.
00:19:03.512 --> 00:19:05.313
Thank you so much for sharing all of that today.
00:19:05.522 --> 00:19:08.673
I like, I'm gonna, I've said this to a few of my guests.
00:19:08.673 --> 00:19:14.492
Actually, I'm gonna have to listen back to the episode myself so I can get my pen out and make all the notes, because every time I talk to you I learn so much more.
00:19:15.722 --> 00:19:22.113
But, um, yeah, um, if people want to find out more about you, follow you, anything like that, um, where can they find you?
00:19:22.113 --> 00:19:22.863
Where are they best to go?
00:19:23.373 --> 00:19:26.732
Uh, if you want to find me on YouTube, you can just search for my name.
00:19:26.732 --> 00:19:28.173
Jerry Potter should come up.
00:19:28.232 --> 00:19:37.682
Uh, and if you want to, if, if you're already feeling like you're in the talking phase or enchanted at this point, um, I encourage you to join our Done By Lunch Entrepreneurs Newsletter.
00:19:37.982 --> 00:19:40.323
Uh, and you can do that@donebylunch.co.
00:19:40.952 --> 00:19:41.907
Done by lunch.co.
00:19:42.903 --> 00:19:45.873
Lovely, and we'll put all those note, uh, all those links in the show notes.
00:19:46.113 --> 00:19:46.833
I love your emails.
00:19:46.833 --> 00:19:48.363
They're always, uh, always entertaining.
00:19:48.363 --> 00:19:49.173
Always entertaining
00:19:50.387 --> 00:19:50.688
Good.
00:19:50.688 --> 00:19:51.288
Glad to hear it.
00:19:54.002 --> 00:19:55.262
Oh, thank you so much, Jerry.
00:19:55.532 --> 00:19:58.593
Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm sure we'll be speaking again soon.
00:19:59.268 --> 00:19:59.988
Sounds good.
00:19:59.988 --> 00:20:00.708
Thank you, Katie.
00:20:02.113 --> 00:20:10.242
That was Jerry Potter, and I'm sure you will join me in thanking Jerry for coming on and sharing all that wisdom with us on the Upside Up Marketing podcast.
00:20:10.482 --> 00:20:14.982
I'll make sure I put the links that he, uh, mentioned in the show notes so you can go and check him out.
00:20:15.313 --> 00:20:19.452
Um, and I highly, highly recommend you go and check out his YouTube actually, it's really, really good.
00:20:19.512 --> 00:20:26.532
Um, actionable, excellent advice on how to build a more efficient business and.
00:20:26.952 --> 00:20:33.553
Nice short videos as well to the point he extends this philosophy to the way he interacts with his audience and clients as well.
00:20:33.553 --> 00:20:35.593
So, um, yeah, absolutely fantastic guest.
00:20:35.742 --> 00:20:37.782
I'm really loving having these guests on the podcast.
00:20:37.992 --> 00:20:41.357
Do let me know if there's anyone you would like to hear from or any topics you would like to hear.
00:20:42.117 --> 00:20:51.208
Um, and just a note for anyone watching on YouTube, if you are audio only, you probably wouldn't have noticed this, but I actually forgot to record the outro when I recorded that episode.
00:20:51.208 --> 00:21:01.738
So, uh, I'm recording it now like a couple of days before the episode's released and, um, I thought you might not notice if I put the same t-shirt on forgetting I was in a completely different location.
00:21:01.738 --> 00:21:03.298
So the background has changed completely.
00:21:03.387 --> 00:21:05.998
So if you spotted that, well done Eagle eyes.
00:21:06.538 --> 00:21:08.458
Um, that's it for this week.
00:21:08.518 --> 00:21:12.008
Make sure you hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes we have.
00:21:12.067 --> 00:21:26.768
Um, I'm not sure what's coming up next week'cause I haven't written it yet, but the week after, we got another amazing guest where we'll be talking about, um, how to make the most of your networking in terms of learning about your people, improving your message and building your business.
00:21:26.978 --> 00:21:29.107
So, um, really, really looking forward to that.
00:21:29.107 --> 00:21:31.958
Make sure you hit subscribe and I will see you next time.
