Mitchell Pearce | Converting to Islam | State of Origin | Catalan Dragons | Living in France

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Speaker 1: All right, bro.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, mate.
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Speaker 3: Welcome. Here's your beautiful seat right here, mate. Right here.
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Speaker 2: Right there.
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Speaker 3: Get in there, bro. Get in there.
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Speaker 2: Oh, mate. Wow.
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Speaker 3: It has been a minute. Bring in the mic.
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Speaker 2: Bring in the mic.
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Speaker 3: Just letting you know we're live in case I didn't say it over there. We are officially live. Bro, how are you?
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Speaker 2: I'm good, brother.
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Speaker 3: What's going on with you? Tell me what's happening in your world.
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Speaker 2: Mate, I'm overseas, so I come back for six weeks just to see family and friends. I'm coaching in Catalan, so I went back. I think I caught up with you before I went back.
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Speaker 3: Wow, was that the last time you were here?
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Speaker 2: A while ago, yeah.
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Speaker 3: Wow.
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Speaker 2: So I did a year and a half. Went back, I'm a little baby, a little daughter now.
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Speaker 3: Congratulations, bro.
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Speaker 2: Aliyah, so she's beautiful.
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Speaker 3: God bless.
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Speaker 2: She's nearly 14 months now. And then went back for the baby, then got an opportunity to coach with the Catalans. So I'm doing some, just do some stuff with the halves. Obviously, I had a relationship there when I was playing. So, yeah, it's been good, man. But that sort of kept me over there longer than I expected. But it's hard. I love Europe. So, obviously, I miss family and there's some opportunities in Australia. But, man, living over there is calm. Calm.
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Speaker 3: Calm. What's the game plan? Like how long do you want to be over there? Is there a time that you're eventually going to come back with the family? Like we all know the– our missus are the bosses of the family. Like you might be the head, bro, but she's the neck. She's turned the head wherever it wants to go. So what's going to happen?
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Speaker 2: We've obviously got one more year coaching. And then I think after that, I'll probably finish up the coaching there. I don't want to say that publicly because you never know. But yeah, I think doing the reboot stuff with Toddy, with our own charity, non-for-profit charity, Reboot Mindset Academy. So yeah. um focusing on the youth schools um what seven step programs so.
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Speaker 3: Where are you guys based are you based predominantly in queensland or for reboot yeah.
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Speaker 2: Bit of both so there's been some opportunities in queensland so far but obviously the more we expand the goal is to tap in as many places as we can um but obviously obviously have to be here hands-on when that comes up so yeah i think the year after next we'll we'll make our way back and dive into that beautiful so.
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Speaker 3: Beautiful tell me about your coaching role like Is this something that you would love to go in further? Is there any ambition to be a head coach one day? Assistant coach one day?
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure yet, mate. I enjoy what I'm doing, but as you know, I think when you retire, you kind of go into what's natural, like the coaching being the next half and obviously being a thinker of the game when I was playing it, it's sort of something you think naturally is going to happen, but falling in love with it as well is another thing and So I'm really enjoying my time coaching there because the pressure's off. It's a little bit– the pace of everything's a little bit less, obviously, not only just in Super League but in France. It's a professional sport, but the energy's a bit different. So at the moment, I'm enjoying it. I'm getting a gauge whether that sort of grows. But, yeah, as I said, I think I'm more– I enjoy the mentoring stuff in the youth and that type of stuff. So I'm kind of just dabbling with a few things, giving 100% in both, but I think it'll ride itself. as I get going.
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Speaker 3: Doing both things, I feel like, ticks two boxes for you. So, both of them, you're giving back. Yeah. So, we all know that rugby league lives in your veins. Like, you know, your dad's gone through it, you're going through it. You never know, your beautiful daughter might live it one day.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: You said that you love doing it as well. Was there a point in your, I guess, NRL career where you've fallen out of love for the game and then you kind of found it back in France? Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think.
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Speaker 2: I think... Yeah, probably at the back end of my last year when I went to France, I was falling out of love with the game. I don't even know if I was falling out of love, just maybe fatigued a bit from a long career. What's a long career, bro? Yeah, that type of stuff. I really enjoyed my footy in a different environment, playing over there, playing for different people, you know, in a proud community, all those sort of things. So I enjoyed my time there playing, but I suppose Europe was more of a falling in love with life. and some changes more so than the footy.
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Speaker 3: 100%. Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 2: But being in service, like you said, that space being of service is something that's rewarding, isn't it?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, 100% it is. Did you feel like it was hard for you to kind of blend in with the culture? You know, everyone likes to say French is like they're arrogant people, they're very proud people. But what was your experience like, you know, being an Aussie coming from all the way.
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Speaker 2: Here to there? Yeah, I think you can go over as an expat and still have the same mindset as back home. if you're around the same type of people, especially in footy because you've got mates that are playing with you, teammates that are still from Australia or England. But I think when I met my wife, that was a big change, obviously more into the local community. A big part of my family and my daughter's family and my wife's family is French. So obviously I indulged more in that the longer I've been there. And that naturally brings change, perspective. new culture. So yeah, man, change. And as you know, travel and culture changes is the best learning you can have. I reckon more, more than school and for sure. And everything, you know, just to see how people live. It opens up gratitude, you know, opens up perspective on the way you want to be as opposed to how you've been told to be all that sort of stuff.
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Speaker 3: What's the biggest difference with Australia and France.
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Speaker 2: In your opinion? Um, a lot of differences, like Australia is beautiful. Like we're so privileged in the fact that we've got, um, We're away from a lot of stuff, so it's a safe place. It's plenty of opportunities, as we know. There's so much happening.
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Speaker 3: Do we take it for granted? Yeah, we do, man.
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Speaker 2: I think I was so lucky that I got raised well as well and I grew up in a family that provided me with a good lifestyle. Not only that, I also grew up in Sydney where it's a super privileged place, so I think that in itself is something that you get a real realisation. You know, sometimes in Australia we even take for granted how privileged our whole country is. I'm not saying everyone does, but not until you step into different cultures and see what they appreciate and the lack of what they have maybe from opportunities and finances. That's the biggest awakening and I think that in itself is something that makes you see both places differently but also with a lot more gratitude.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, speaking of gratitude, like, I've hardly watched mainstream media, I'll be honest with you, but whenever I put it on, there is so much negative news happening, not only here in Australia, but around the world, as well as France. Like, I was looking, I put it on the television and I was like, the whole country's burning. There's riots everywhere. I don't know. Do you know what's going on? Like, any idea, any insight at all? What is the cause of all these riots in France? And is it in Perpignan, south of France?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few issues in Perpi. So obviously the ones in Paris... from my knowledge is we had a few friends there actually like a bit of family and Mrs. real close friends that were in Paris when it went down. So a lot of it's around the school system, I think, like trying to change the way their schooling is and stuff like that. The crazy thing is, and you've been an Arab, you'd know how the different countries go, but man, when there's a riot in Europe, They're fucking right. They're firebombing your car. You saw in Paris, they're smashing in designer clothes, windows. It's pretty intense. There was a little bit of it in Perpignan, but it didn't blow up massively, thank God. There's always stuff going on in Europe, isn't there? Far out. That's one thing I've noticed in talking about how privileged we are being Australian, away from all the... that shit, we don't deal with a lot of that stuff they do.
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Speaker 3: No, we're not going through the crazy rides, but we are going through interest rate rises, inflation.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's worse?
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Speaker 3: Cost of living going up. So yeah, choose your poison. What do you want?
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Speaker 2: Choose your poison.
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Speaker 3: Do you want your house or your shop getting broken into and smashed open or like you want high interest rates and whatnot?
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Speaker 2: You know what I always think, but like, is this stuff been like this for ages or is it just the fact that we see everything now on the phone? I was thinking that or maybe I'm, More aware. I'm more aware of the things. But I was talking to someone the other day about it. Like, because you just literally, every time you look at your phone now, there's someone getting bombed, some house getting smashed in. Like, are we reading more about it now?
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Speaker 3: I think it's worse.
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Speaker 2: Oh, it's worse, yeah.
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Speaker 3: I think it's worse. Predominantly in Melbourne, I think. Melbourne, you know, Adrian Patelli has come on a couple of podcasts and the guy's living in a bulletproof house. house basically essentially he's got bulletproof doors everywhere he's got smoke sensors he's got uh you know alarm on alarm on alarm and like i understand he's got a lot of money but at the same time you know you shouldn't feel comfortable if we're calling australia this great country it's meant to be safe you know yes we've got healthy food and fresh food and whatnot but you can't even live in it like and enjoy the spoils of it so yeah so he's obviously living in dubai now um but again like there's been yeah it's mainly gang related like uh Down in Melbourne, there's been a lot of machete violence, like gangs on gangs. And here in Sydney, obviously, you've got a bit of like an underworld battle between two rival clans and families. But I'm hoping that's kind of dying down. It hasn't been in the media for quite a period of time now. So I think we're getting somewhere. But, yeah, I understand what you're saying because we've got social media. It's easy to kind of like record something on the spot without missing it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Like, there's so much happening, bro. I try to stay off social media and watch less mainstream media as much as possible because of that reason. I'm sick of seeing that shit.
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Speaker 2: Like, fuck.
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Speaker 3: Like, oh, yeah, I'm upset. Thank you, but it's not good for my head. No, no, no. Just don't. I don't want to kind of like direct my energy towards it.
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Speaker 2: I was just talking to Tiny before about phones. I just went to Fiji. He's talking about like finding clarity. I know everyone says it, but like I had a week off my phone where I just got off WhatsApp, social media. Like, man, the 50% increase just off that in itself is huge, isn't it?
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Speaker 3: Well, the time you find it.
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Speaker 2: Just being on my phone, like I'm fully addicted. I know everyone is.
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Speaker 3: I'm addicted as well, yeah.
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Speaker 2: I'm just nonstop. And a few people have said it to me, like all you do is sit on your phone. And half the time I don't even know what I'm doing. And I know everyone speaks about it, but I had six days off it. Fuck, I noticed the difference.
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Speaker 3: In what sense?
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Speaker 2: Just the mind being not so busy. All the stuff you spoke about and just, yeah, more clarity, like your answers that you're searching for a bit come back. I don't know, man. Just made me think about it when you were saying about looking at your phone all the time. So I might need to fuck it off.
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Speaker 3: Well, maybe producer Pedro, I might have to, you know, give him some more workload from whatever I'm doing on my phone. I'll just give it to you. You wouldn't last, bro.
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Speaker 2: You couldn't live without your phone.
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Speaker 3: This guy's phone's ringing every two minutes.
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Speaker 2: He's on text.
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Speaker 3: He's on Instagram. I'm doing so much. I'm doing the best I can, you guys.
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Speaker 2: Good luck with it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, hard, hard. Do you miss the lifestyle, like being an NRL player by any chance?
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Speaker 2: No, I don't miss like the– Like I didn't retire and then think I needed that validation or that ego of playing week to week. Like I know some guys struggle with that feeling.
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Speaker 3: Do you miss playing? No.
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Speaker 2: Like when I'm coaching, I still jump in. I jump into the B team a fair bit. Obviously like they're always short of half. So like part of my job is jumping in that B team on those last couple of sessions during the week. And I get a thrill out of being in the moment and playing around with the lads. But, you know, game day and all that pressure that comes with it and, I think once you're done, you're done. And I just sort of got burnt out with the– you lose your motivation a little bit by the end of it. So no, I don't miss that. But I think it's important when you retire to still get– find your routines again. Because I think– I did a marathon earlier in the year.
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Speaker 3: How did you go?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good.
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Speaker 3: You've always been fit, but– Yeah.
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Speaker 2: The training of it was probably something that I was getting at, like the routine and the training and having that reward at the end.
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Speaker 3: Purpose.
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Speaker 2: It's something that's important, I reckon.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Because you do feel a bit– you've got all this energy that you used to invest in footy and then when that goes, you kind of– you've got to find something to replace it or you can feel a bit lost, I reckon.
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Speaker 3: 100% spot on.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So that's something that's been a conscious effort for me.
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Speaker 3: Because I wanted to ask like where you're at in your life now. Like you're saying you've found clarity. You're grateful for the life you've had or have. You have a purpose.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: But if you were to now go back into that world and be an NRL player, would that conflict with your values right now? Would there be a power struggle almost?
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Speaker 2: I think I'd be a better player.
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Speaker 3: Fuck.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I reckon if I had– because I know– I've found some faith. I've made changes with alcohol. I think the purpose and direction of that makes everything align more for me. Yep. You know, and I think as an athlete, when you're in that state, your body's healthier, your mind's healthier, you ride out the ups and downs, the rollercoaster clearer. So I definitely think I would have been a better athlete if I had found alignment a bit earlier. But at the same time, doesn't that mean you miss out on, you know, the respect you earn, and that sounds pretty harsh, sounds a bit weird saying it, but like coming in when we came through, yeah respect was earned having a beer and i don't think anyone looks down on you because you don't have a beer not anymore but but back then i think um those type of things also had benefits so i'm not sure man it's a good question.
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Speaker 3: Yeah you see yeah i wanted to ask you that then talk to me about the catalan dragons uh you know obviously down the south of france you know small town called perpignan um where do you see them going into next season? Like, is there promise with the club?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully. This year, like, so we sort of got an opportunity through, they were going through a bit of a youth-like year to try and save some money. So obviously the years I played there when Jimmy Maloney and a lot of the older sort of experienced NRL players got contracts over there, there was some good success there for a window. And then the club sort of slipped over for a couple of years. They were spending some big cash. So I think Well, I know their decision was to sort of try and get back on track. I think the club was struggling financially a little bit. So they took a year to sort of test the waters with getting some younger boys over and a younger coaching staff. So I sort of got to start off the back of that, which I was grateful for. Joel Tompkins took over, which is Sam Tompkins.
00:14:38
Speaker 3: Oh, really?
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Speaker 2: Sam Tompkins' brother. So he was one of my great mates, Michael McLaurin, one of the English greats, one of my best mates. So we sort of got the start through that, being ex-players, and I was obviously there with the bub. Then next year we've sort of gone and spent a little bit more. So I think Tyson Gamble's coming over next year.
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Speaker 3: Nice. Hamas Ali as well.
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Speaker 2: Hamas Ali's there. Who else have we signed? I've just had a brain snap.
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Speaker 3: Luciana. Luciana.
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Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, wow. Jesse Arthurs is coming over.
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Speaker 3: Wow.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, some good names coming over. So, yeah, hopefully for the team and the club and for all of us, we're going to have some success.
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Speaker 3: What attracted you to the club in the first place from, you know, going from Newey to there?
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Speaker 2: Man, honestly, going overseas was the last thing on my mind.
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Speaker 3: Really?
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Speaker 2: Jimmy Maloney retired. Steve McNamara was the coach. I had him at the Roosters when I was younger. Sam Mull was there as well. So the opportunity with Jimmy was retiring. So there was a chance that he was going to go one more year. And he decided to pull up stumps. So, yeah, just having that relationship with a few of the lads there, they reached out and said, do you want to come over? Would you be interested in it? And as I said before, I was kind of getting to a point where I was getting a bit burnt out with the whole footy in the NRL. I was older. I was a bit slower. I wasn't playing– you're not playing as good as what you would have liked to do. So, yeah, I took the opportunity and it was a great way to finish.
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Speaker 3: What was your impression of the Super League?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's– Yeah, I love the Super League. What I love about it is just the fact of, like, it's a working-class area of the north of England. You know, they love rugby league for what we love it, I suppose. You know, that's what I love about the game there. And, you know, going to all the crowds there, it's, like, patriotic. You know, you go to Castleford and Leeds and Wigan and, like, it's just all rugby league. So as far as that was concerned, that's sort of how I grew up. I grew up in the game and, you know, the game's given us everything. So to go and play a part of that passion, like, I genuinely love that. um and also in in perpignan like you got one team in the south of france was pretty cool two teams sorry to.
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Speaker 3: Lose as well but it's.
00:16:41
Speaker 2: A majority of rugby union area and you just got all these you know proud catalonian areas catalonia's the perpignan area is a poor town it's not a it's not a wealthy city uh perpignan and.
00:16:54
Speaker 3: Putting a club there how did they end up getting into the super league.
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Speaker 2: Was all bernard so bernard Bernard Gouache, who's the owner. So he's the owner of.
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Speaker 3: Catalan.
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Speaker 2: So I think about 20– well, 2007 was their first year.
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Speaker 3: Okay.
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Speaker 2: So it was basically Bernard's idea. They were in– Trez Catalan's was what the club was before. So it wasn't obviously in the top league. He pushed for a French team to come into the Super League. Basically, he's invested it out of his own pocket. He's obviously got– built the club up and got sponsors, but majority of it's come out of his own pocket. So for what he's done for rugby league– in all the world, but especially for France and having a French team and making it famous there, I suppose, and bringing all these NRL players over and this type of thing, you can't underestimate it really. It's a good history actually in France. So back in the– I think it was in the 50s and 60s, French were the best rugby league team in the world. So even compared to– they were beating Australia. They were the premier rugby league team in the world. You might have heard.
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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure they designed the World Cup. I'm pretty sure there was a French maker. Can you please Google a fact check that bedroom? I'm pretty sure a French trophy maker, if you want to call him that, designed the World Cup because on top of the World Cup, there's actually a cockerel. And what is the symbol of France? It's the rooster.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, the rooster.
00:18:14
Speaker 3: So I could be wrong.
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Speaker 2: No, there's something around that.
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Speaker 3: The Rugby League trophy known as the Paul Barrière Trophy was commissioned in 1954 by French Rugby League Federation President Paul Bareri, though the exact individual silversmith or designer of the original 1954 prize piece is not publicly credited by any unofficial records. So there you go. Far out. Get that up, yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Well, apparently the rugby union got taken over because I think it was something to do with the Germans. You might be able to get the history up as well. Something to do with the Germans when something with the war was going on. So rugby league was a premier sport. They wanted rugby union to take over and they basically just invested all the money into rugby union. And that's why you see the French rugby union, how big that's gotten now.
00:19:03
Speaker 3: Oh, it's huge, man.
00:19:04
Speaker 2: But they basically squashed rugby league. And then it's become this, obviously the money and the size of South of France rugby union. They're super 14 there.
00:19:13
Speaker 3: Are they, what do you call it? Yeah, not super 14.
00:19:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, the history is huge, man. Like, yeah, there's some, they reckon some players, there was a fullback. You might have to get that up as well. There was a fullback over there that was meant to be like one of the best players in the world, French fullback. He's got a statue, I think, in Carcassonne, which is about an hour from Perpignan. He was a league fullback, little fellow, a bit like Clive Churchill for us.
00:19:40
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:19:41
Speaker 2: But at that time, he was one of the best players in the world. They reckon through games when he was playing in Australia in those early days, he was too good. And he's got a statue in Carcassonne, which is a place about an hour away.
00:19:54
Speaker 3: Interesting.
00:19:55
Speaker 2: It's a good history, man.
00:19:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, fuck.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: It's good to know stuff that obviously working there and being half French, being a proud Frenchie now, it's pretty cool to know that in a place that's 24 hours away, how much history is there?
00:20:09
Speaker 3: Would you... That's it, yeah. What does it now?
00:20:11
Speaker 1: The bronze statue of legendary French rugby league fullback, Pouygues Albert.
00:20:14
Speaker 2: Pouygues Albert, yeah, yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker 1: Nicknamed Pipette.
00:20:17
Speaker 2: Pipette. Pipette.
00:20:18
Speaker 3: Pipette. Oh, wow. It's down that side. The Stade Albert Domic. There you go. Far out. There you go. Okay. Wow, there you go. Interesting. Well, we'll get into a bit more to the French and I guess their commitment to rugby league a bit later, but I want to ask you as well, since we're on the topic of the super league, do you welcome investment from the NRL?
00:20:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay.
00:20:46
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:20:48
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I do because at the moment, like rugby league is growing and we've got a great support base here in the Southern hemisphere. When I say Southern hemisphere, Pacific island nations, New Zealand, Australia, of course, but I feel like rugby league is slowly dying in the Northern hemisphere. And like you said there, Rugby Union has completely taken over France. Rugby Union has got a pretty strong foothold of England as well. I think it's the north of England where Rugby League pretty much dominates. Plus you've got soccer in England where you've got six, seven competitions that are professional and semi-professional. So how do we grow Rugby League in England and France? It's a very– well, without investment. You know what I mean? And the only investment– you're going to get is from the NRL.
00:21:40
Speaker 2: Is that pretty much fair to say? I think, yeah, I agree with you. I think there's obviously there was some negotiations recently.
00:21:47
Speaker 3: Yes. Back and forth at the moment. Like it's almost there but nothing officially. Yeah. Nothing officially. But it is pretty promising that the NRL are going to get a stake out of the Super League. Yeah.
00:21:58
Speaker 2: I'm hearing like obviously working over there and then with some English guys. I think there's a bit of like older– You know, with the history of the Super League, there's some older guys that are in powerful positions that are kind of pushing back a bit, sort of probably want it to stay how it is, if I'm correct in saying that, just from different things I'm hearing. But for me, like being an Aussie and living there, it's a no-brainer, I think. Like for the benefit of the English boys as well, like there's so many good players in the English Super League and obviously we see them all in the World Cup and on show in Super League each week. But I think the development– The privilege we get in Australia of how much money is invested in our development, if they can get the same over there, you're only going to see naturally you're going to see them become better players. It's the same in France. I was only chatting to someone the other day and being in France that I think they're at 5%, 10% of what potential they have to invest in all of the areas around France. Clearly rugby union is the main sport, but if you had a proper academy there set up that's invested from, paid for from the NRL, they're making all this money. and you're sending over the right people to support the French rugby league communities and giving them access to what the academies are at the Roosters and Penrith and how they do their pathways here, that in itself is going to have some– you'd think there'd be a 50% growth naturally off that because the coaching is the right thing and they're getting exposed to stuff that all the privilege of the NRL get. So, yeah, I'm a big supporter of it because obviously to grow the game, in France and England is a must, I think.
00:23:37
Speaker 3: I think so.
00:23:38
Speaker 2: And then obviously if everything gets better and there's more support around it, then hopefully maybe some more media and TV stuff opens up in England.
00:23:46
Speaker 3: I hope so. I hope so. Well, since we're talking about the French, we're about to move on to the World Cup itself. Let's just talk about the French just for now, just for a minute. So you're talking about to grow the game in France, we need all of that. In my eyes, I think you definitely need government help, government support. Do you feel government supports rugby league in France? Or more rugby union?
00:24:09
Speaker 2: It's all rugby union.
00:24:10
Speaker 3: Okay. So we need to try and divert more attention to rugby league from there. You need commercial investment, like you're saying, from the NRL. You need development. We said that. And ultimately, we need participation to grow numbers in France. Right now, you've got two competitions running, right? So you've got the Super League, which only has two teams, Toulouse and Catalan, that are representing the French league. over there, and then you've got, I guess, a lower semi-professional league there as well, correct?
00:24:38
Speaker 2: The first division comp, yeah, yeah. So even that, the first division, you get some good Aussies or English guys that go over to play in that. Most of the guys that will play here may be playing reserve grade or getting a bit older where the NRL contracts kind of slip past them, or even just to go over for lifestyle and opportunity, a bit like maybe a local Newcastle comp, for example, which is– Is that the comparison? Yeah. I'd say so. I haven't watched it properly week to week or compared it, but I'd imagine it'd be quite similar. But even there, that should be your reserve grade, for my opinion. If you've got the first division players, there's been a couple of boys that have got starts in Super League that came and trained with us this year and went to Toulouse. I should know his name, but there was a front rower that went to Toulouse this year that we tried to get that was playing at Albi, I think, which is one of the teams about two hours, three hours from Perpignan.
00:25:29
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:25:30
Speaker 2: In the first division. So these guys are going over, getting an opportunity because they're playing well in that and then coming into Super League. So it should be a pathways. It should almost be like our reserve grade. But as you said, and we spoke about before, the more money that's invested is obviously going to give it more weight, isn't it? And then if your pathways and your coaching and that level's proper development, you're going to see like a proper– it just starts to gain some weight. So, you know, I'm not smart enough or– visionary enough to understand how to set up all these programs. But no doubt in the world, if we can invest some money into it, it's only going to be a benefit. And then I think the other positive is to get that transition players. Like the amount of players that are playing, say, in academies here at Penrith or Roosters or this and that, and a little bit off first grade, but the thing holding them back is maybe a bit of maturity or a bit of growth off the field. Send them overseas to a different culture, which we spoke about before. You get a different perspective. They have to learn different languages. They have to put themselves out.
00:26:29
Speaker 3: They're challenging themselves.
00:26:30
Speaker 2: Challenge yourself. And we're going off personal experience. That in itself could be that edge. You can do all the systems here and go to your reserve grade and wrestle more, but sometimes that's all players need. And then vice versa, you're using some English players or some young French kids that people go, this kid's got potential here, but if he goes to a system in Penrith where he gets to learn off all the, you know, the powerhouse club that that is, he comes back better. So I think there's that transition to use both countries to an advantage is positive.
00:27:05
Speaker 3: I think as well.
00:27:06
Speaker 2: If I put that right.
00:27:07
Speaker 3: Well, since you're already there, I think you might as well just put your hand up and go, you know what? If I want to wave the NRL flag there, I'll be a development officer. You have your own academy, Mitch Piss' academy, you know, perfect, beautiful.
00:27:18
Speaker 2: NRL, throw him 150K or 150K euros.
00:27:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, please. I'm in. This guy's pricey, man, you know. 150 euro, I'm in. Well, with France as well, like in the World Cup, Do you agree to, like, where they're at at the moment in terms of skill? Like, they've been pumped by Samoa and England, both by 80-plus scorelines, right?
00:27:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:44
Speaker 3: Do you feel having them in the World Cup is, I guess, a good thing or is it a bad thing?
00:27:51
Speaker 2: No, I think it's a good thing.
00:27:51
Speaker 3: Even though they're getting smashed by 80?
00:27:55
Speaker 2: I think just– I'm just trying to think. Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker 3: But I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm just trying to say like I can't see it being a good thing if you've got your country, like you're representing your country on the world stage and then they're getting smacked by 80 points. Like as a player, you don't want to have to experience that, but also you don't want to embarrass your country by putting in that sort of performance. Like I remember clearly like the World Cup, I think it was North Korea and maybe it was South Korea as well in the previous one. And they had a run of embarrassing games. They came back and they were like slaughtered by their media. The North Koreans, mate, they're in probably some labor camp at the moment. Those blows players are bastards. So what I'm trying to get at, like at the same time, yeah, you want to represent your country, but if you're going to embarrass yourself with the performances just because you guys can't compete with the best, then maybe it's– I don't know, maybe we... I know we've dropped it to 10 teams, but maybe we don't call it a World Cup. Maybe we call it something else.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:28:59
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And then we maybe have like a secondary competition. So you've got your primary teams, like your Australia, New Zealand, England, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji. PNG is going to be good, like eventually. Like they've got a lot of investment. Obviously, with the PNG Chiefs coming, they've invested in pathways and development. So they're eventually going to close the gap. And then like another eight team. And then maybe... Pedro said it the other day, but we create like maybe a promotion, a relegation system between those two competitions. The secondary, you have your Lebanon's at the moment, you've got Greece, Italy, France, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and? maybe another team, right? And then the winner of that gets promoted to the top tier. The loser of the top tier.
00:29:48
Speaker 2: They don't play.
00:29:49
Speaker 3: They get dropped back. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:51
Speaker 2: I think going just for the first bit, I think like if you ask me with the French lads, even though they're losing a lot, they still get to represent their country. I think if you asked all of them, it's still a privilege. Like I'm only speaking off my own perception of it, but I'd think that they'd still be proud that they're still being able to be a part of a World Cup, as they should be. They're a country that plays rugby league. So I think just to answer that part of your question, I think they would still be pretty– I can't answer for the boys after having 80-point losses and if that's changed or not, but I'd imagine that they're still proud and patriotic that they're still being able to be a part of it, which they should be. But I do agree. I looked at it even with Fiji playing Australia. I know the Fijian boys have gotten better and they're improving. They're putting a really good squad together. But I still think that some of the draws that I've seen, and I know that it's got to balance out because there's not 100 teams, but I still think some of the draws I'm looking at, it's a bit unfair. Fiji playing Australia.
00:30:56
Speaker 2: For me, it's, I don't know.
00:30:57
Speaker 3: That's the World Cup.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: I know it's the World Cup, but I'm just trying to go and elaborate off what you're saying about having a second tier thing. I just think, you know, it can be a bit unfair, some of the lineups.
00:31:10
Speaker 3: That's why I like, you know, if you're in that primary competition, you know, playing the best of the best, like it makes sense. Like anyone plays anyone, right? And then the secondary competition, you know, anyone plays anyone like, uh, like Lebanon's getting better and better. Um, you know, you've got like, we've got Cook Islands in the world cup. I don't just give you this example. Cook Islands in the world cup. Their population is 17,000 bro. Like, and they're in a world cup and we can't get like a competitive France or a competitive America or a competitive Scotland. Do you know what I'm getting? Like the population's there. So like what's going on?
00:31:45
Speaker 2: What's going on?
00:31:46
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I know like Polynesian players, you know, they're, they're born with natural strength, agility, speed, um, as to the Northern Hemisphere teams and countries, but it should be an excuse.
00:31:58
Speaker 2: It's true what you're saying. The population, as a French team, they should have a bigger pool. But I suppose it's the rugby union dominance there, isn't it? I don't know. It's almost a huge compliment to these islander countries. For how good they are.
00:32:18
Speaker 3: Exactly.
00:32:18
Speaker 2: Like to be honest, like you're getting– like the growth of Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, like it just shows how good these boys are.
00:32:26
Speaker 3: Do you like my model? Do you like– do you think that has– I think you might be onto something, brother. Thank you. Thank you. But not only that as well. I'm on a tangent here. I'm sorry. But like you can't expect these nations to just rock up at the World Cup and perform, right? I'm pretty sure the French haven't played– Lebanon haven't, for four years. Yeah. And then just turn up on the World Cup and expect everything is going to be sweet. Yeah. You know, like there needs to be warm-up games, tests, then maybe a smaller competition.
00:32:52
Speaker 2: How do you manage the smaller competitions? Like with the way NRL is in Super League, when are you going to put them games in? That's the difficult.
00:33:01
Speaker 3: Every two years maybe?
00:33:02
Speaker 2: Every two years.
00:33:02
Speaker 3: Every two years. So maybe two years you have maybe a Six Nations or a Four Nations, right?
00:33:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:07
Speaker 3: But split it into two. So the Northern Hemisphere have like a four, Six Nation kind of comp the Southern Hemisphere have a four to six nation competition.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:33:15
Speaker 3: This is just me spitballing. And then the two years after that, you got the World Cup. So you at least have something. And then maybe in between you play tests here and there. We spun a map, like Andrew Fafita was saying the other day, like he reckons that Samoa Tonga is bigger than origin. That could be something. That could be a fixture in itself.
00:33:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:32
Speaker 3: I know the RPA is about to have a heart attack.
00:33:34
Speaker 2: I'd like to see that.
00:33:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. But you see how like there are ways where we can grow the international game. But I feel like and I understand from the NRL side of things, like why do they need to be the ones to push it? The IRL needs to be pushing these things as well. Like the people there need to be pushing it.
00:33:55
Speaker 2: Is that a money thing though?
00:33:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
00:33:58
Speaker 2: But like. Yeah.
00:34:00
Speaker 3: Andrew wants to take the game. We've got a doubleheader this Sunday.
00:34:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:34:04
Speaker 3: Lebanon-France first, and then it's going to be Samoa-Tonga. He believes, and I actually agree with him, that if he was to take Tongan-Samoa to maybe an Allianz or maybe to a course stadium, you'll get easy 40,000, 50,000 fans. Like 25,000 Tongans, 25,000 Samoans. And I actually agree with him. Yeah, I understand. I agree.
00:34:19
Speaker 1: So ….
00:34:25
Speaker 3: Like in terms of the support and the passion, like you're getting it here. You got it here. But we need to increase the Northern Hemisphere's kind of involvement and love for the game.
00:34:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Like you said, I think the more experienced the lower sides, like I said, your friends, the French boys, the Lebanon side, like the more exposure they're getting against, because you become match fit, don't you?
00:34:48
Speaker 1: Yep.
00:34:48
Speaker 2: So like you said, if they're not getting it for four years and they're in a whole different world and not really exposed to anything of the standard, you're naturally not going to be as good, are you? So yeah, man, I don't know the answers. But like you're saying, getting more regular matches and building some sort of more international– well, it's a rugby union. What do they do? The Six Nations– They've got Six Nations, World Cups, international games.
00:35:11
Speaker 3: I think they've got a EuroLeague as well where they play all the big clubs in big countries in Europe.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.
00:35:15
Speaker 3: I could be wrong.
00:35:16
Speaker 2: But it's more regular, isn't it? And there's more exposure. So, yeah, I think there's definitely something that can keep growing for sure. I don't know. I don't know the answer, bro.
00:35:24
Speaker 3: Well, the whole purpose of taking the NRL to Vegas is to grow the game. Eventually, after this five-year deal with Vegas, we're going to go into global round. Yeah. Like what's the whole purpose of this? Like the purpose is to grow the game of rugby league, right, and to increase our influence around the world. If you don't want to like– if you're doing that but don't want to help international rugby league by supporting these countries and the development of rugby league in these countries, then why the hell are we doing this global round?
00:35:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's no long game with it. Like you sort of– you play the one game and then there's no follow-up. There's no follow-up. I think it's difficult though, like you're saying, to– Like how do you– with the two different competitions and the time difference and the loads already with Origin and everything like that, I can't see right now how that would look.
00:36:18
Speaker 3: I'll tell you how. How? NRL is not going to be happy with what I'm about to say. But they've got to reduce the number of games.
00:36:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, and have a stoppage during the season or something.
00:36:25
Speaker 3: I don't think a stoppage because– By the time.
00:36:28
Speaker 2: Someone from Europe, French competition or even in the English get more involved, they fly over to play a game in Australia and then fly back.
00:36:35
Speaker 3: But that's what I'm saying. Split it. Northern hemisphere play with northern hemisphere teams. Southern hemisphere teams just play with southern hemisphere teams. Like I understand travel is going to be a bit of a pain in the ass. But hey, what about the soccer players do it? Socceroos do it. We had Alice Ciccati on the podcast the other day and he mentioned how he had the opportunity to represent Italy and Australia. Now, yes, he's proud to be Italian heritage but but he's also proud, you know, he lived this whole life here in Australia. So he's a proud Aussie. He had the opportunity to pick which side to commit to, which country. He committed to Australia, even though he knew that was going to be harder for him in terms of travel and logistics. Like he's already over in Europe. Like he, you know, he's got family in Italy. He could have been like, I'll decide to pay for Italy.
00:37:22
Speaker 2: You're saying just make it work once you.
00:37:24
Speaker 3: Just make it work. If you're that proud and it's an honour to represent your country, you do whatever means possible. I understand... But that's, again, it's the money side of things as well. At the end of the day, you want to be paid for playing, putting your body on the line.
00:37:39
Speaker 2: Well, I suppose even like you speak about, like playing state of origin, people, you're given everything you've got just to play rep footy, aren't you? Like in New South Wales or Queensland. And then I suppose to play for Australia and now Samoa and Tonga, you're seeing that passion. People jumping ship, going back to that because you can see how much passion there is for it.
00:37:58
Speaker 3: Love, Bart, and how much it means to them.
00:38:00
Speaker 2: But I think like you're saying, even with, the football overseas and then rugby union like that is like the pinnacle isn't it if you to play a six nations competition and all these like that's like the that's that's the the top of the cliff right i'm saying so i think like you said it's probably creating that same aura around it for us because that's probably not that aura at that level is it as an international level like we have our remember back in the day when they had the anzac day test Like that was equivalent to like an origin, wasn't it?
00:38:29
Speaker 3: Bring it back. Bring it back, please. Like, That's another gig.
00:38:33
Speaker 2: But it had an aura to it and it was like the Bledisloe Cup.
00:38:36
Speaker 3: It means something.
00:38:37
Speaker 2: Like the Bledisloe Cup and all these type of things.
00:38:39
Speaker 3: Bledisloe, that's another example. Thank you for bringing that up. We've been pumped more than 20 times at the Bledisloe, us Aussies at the Wallabies, but it still means something to them. Like they still show up and they're still proud to represent.
00:38:50
Speaker 2: It's like a prestige, isn't it?
00:38:51
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I remember asking a few of the Kiwi lads, like, come on, aren't you guys bored? Like enough's enough. Yeah. you guys are just keeping the fucking foot on the throne. Like release it. Like just, are you sick of winning? But they're like, no, we're not. Like we, this is like one of the proudest moments to represent our country. And like, yes, we're on a massive winning streak, but. It's like we're on again. We're on again. We don't use the previous years as a way to get, I guess, complacent.
00:39:19
Speaker 2: Well, how do you get the rivalries? When are you going on about that? Because it's more around the two nations, isn't it? So, for example, if you're going to get Lebanon, for.
00:39:26
Speaker 4: An example yep or france there's a rivalry we need to you need to create almost like a queensland new south wales the hatred like i know historically there's a bit of hatred between french and england but obviously it's lopsided at the moment but there's there's that history around it like for example lebanon would They hate everyone.
00:39:43
Speaker 3: Don't they? We're loving people, brother. We're very loving.
00:39:48
Speaker 2: Can I just say … But I mean, creating that … I agree with you. The trouble is … That'll create that.
00:39:54
Speaker 1: Every team has more than one bye, right? In each … Every season, there's like three byes for each team.
00:40:00
Speaker 3: Two byes? Two or three. Yeah, yeah. Why couldn't you.
00:40:02
Speaker 1: Just make one, you know, one third in, like maybe after 12 rounds and every team has a buy but you create a rivalry round and it's your tonga samoa australia new zealand lebanon france it's an international round rival round yeah and then you go into another 12 rounds and then after that another version of it that could be pretty cool.
00:40:23
Speaker 3: Yeah test match yeah one-off test match yeah i.
00:40:26
Speaker 1: Like that but is the is the buy really valued by players.
00:40:29
Speaker 3: It is because like Depending on where you're at physically... or mentally... the buy is an opportunity to kind of you know... just recover and just reset but.
00:40:39
Speaker 3: Man it's... again it's got to go back to what I was saying before... you can't have 26, 27 games... it's too much load.
00:40:47
Speaker 2: and.
00:40:47
Speaker 3: Then throw in representative footy... like and then throw in... final series... so you've got players playing close to 30, 40 games right... and where the game is at today... like you cannot be complacent as a player... the game is so freaking fast... and so demanding physically. Like you just can't afford to, sorry, to get on a drink on the weekend. Like, oh, like I'm, You know, I've got a weekend here. I played on Friday night. I'll get on the drink here. Like that's actually going to catch up with you. Like there is no, there's no leeway anymore. Does that make sense? Like back when me and you were playing, like you could indulge from time to time and get away with it.
00:41:24
Speaker 2: Indulge, I like that word.
00:41:25
Speaker 3: You can't now. You fucking can't, mate. Let me tell you. You need to be as fit as possible and value your preseason. You can't miss weeks.
00:41:34
Speaker 2: No, no. Or days. It looks like that now. It looks so hard. The managing the load, like you said, from having origin, putting your buyers in and then the week-to-week grind, the international– the more you're saying it all, it sort of makes sense why our international game is probably not peaking as hard and as good as the union and the football overseas is because we don't– it's a load thing more than anything, isn't it? Obviously, I think the tribalism thing you spoke about, like now that we just brought that up, I think that could create more depth to it. Yeah. Because when there's hatred or there's history, it naturally grows the appeal. And then as a player, when you've got that motivation too and it becomes this sort of– this thing with an aura around it, that gives you more motivation to want to play, doesn't it?
00:42:19
Speaker 3: I agree.
00:42:20
Speaker 2: If that makes sense. So I don't know how to do it.
00:42:22
Speaker 3: Don't England have a fixture? They have a team called the Barbarians. So like all the expats.
00:42:29
Speaker 2: Or– Best players all come together in one team.
00:42:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, come in one team.
00:42:32
Speaker 2: I think Freddie and I played in that once. Freddie Fittler, I think so.
00:42:36
Speaker 3: I think so. Why would he play in that?
00:42:40
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong. Him and Joey definitely went over and played in like an All-Stars. I thought it was Barbarians. I know Sam Tompkins played.
00:42:49
Speaker 3: Was that a rugby league version or was that a– Might have been rugby union that they played. That's what I'm– yeah.
00:42:53
Speaker 2: Rugby union, yeah. You have to get more info on that, but.
00:42:56
Speaker 3: I can't I think I read my eyes are failing me but I cannot see that there you go it.
00:43:00
Speaker 1: Says the Barbarians are union yeah England Rugby League has not played a match against the Rugby Union.
00:43:04
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah there you go I'm sure Freddie and that played some sort of international game interesting I'm not sure when they went over it was him and Joey they went in and played like a it might have been like a legends game but I I remember they they played some sort of game.
00:43:20
Speaker 3: Was that the British Lions tour when he was playing for Australia maybe.
00:43:26
Speaker 2: No, it was a– I don't want to say the wrong thing here.
00:43:30
Speaker 3: Call Freddie now and ask him. Call him now and ask him.
00:43:34
Speaker 2: He did say he played like a– it was a game where it was him and Joey that played in a– it was like a mixed team that played– I don't know if they were playing rubber union because there was a few like legends playing in this game. It might have just been a one-off thing. I'm pretty sure Sam Tompkins played in Barbarians. Sam Tonkin's English legend who played at the Warriors. I'm pretty sure he played in some sort of Barbarians game.
00:43:56
Speaker 3: Anyway, let's move on. We're going to be here all day, bro. We're going to be here all day. He's adamant. He wants to find it. He wants to find it.
00:44:05
Speaker 2: History lesson for me.
00:44:06
Speaker 3: Badly.
00:44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, good.
00:44:07
Speaker 3: I had some solutions there. I don't know if we can get it over the line, but I do agree with what you're saying with, you know, you've got the Samoan Tonga, you've got that historical rivalry, England, France. If the teams aren't strong enough to compete with England, maybe we just put like a– your best 17 of all those nations to compete with England. I don't know. Like they can't because those countries don't have the opportunity to kind of represent, those players don't have the opportunity to represent their own countries. So anyway, that's for people with higher salaries than us and higher grades.
00:44:42
Speaker 2: This is the most I've thought for about 10 years, man.
00:44:47
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think, um, back to what I was saying, I go with the world cup. Like I would like to see a bit more competitive. There's been a few blowouts where like as a fan, like, I don't know if you want to see that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know. Do you guys want to see it? I don't know. Like, you know, Cook Islands the other day, it was entertaining the first 20 minutes. And then it was a, a massive scoreline like in New Zealand, put 80 on them. Uh, It's hard to watch.
00:45:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:45:16
Speaker 3: But do you feel like, well, you look back 10, 15 years ago, like Tonga and Samoa were kind of in a similar boat, right? There was a massive gap between the big three, England, New Zealand, Australia. Do you feel like that gap is almost pretty much closed now? Like if you really look at Australia's like depth and their strength?
00:45:37
Speaker 2: With Tonga and Samoa?
00:45:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:45:39
Speaker 2: I think I was only saying to someone, a mate earlier, he was talking about a footy when I was driving in. about the Tonga Samoa game. Yeah, I reckon in the next four or five years, especially with guys like Katoa, like obviously if you think about the Islander teams, most of the boys are obviously great outside backs and forwards, aren't they, with the size of them. We haven't seen too many top-end Samoa, Tongan, Cook Island halves as such over the history, have we? It's more been, but I think with Katoa coming through, obviously Jerome Luai and them the last few years, Like if the Islander teams can get the spine that the Aussies have or the New Zealand sides have, I think they're better. Wow. I think they potentially in four or five years with the way the game's going and the amount of Indigenous and Islander players in the competition, I generally think they can be the powerhouse of the international game.
00:46:38
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:46:39
Speaker 2: I do. I really do.
00:46:41
Speaker 3: Well, if you look at the NRL … what Polynesian players make up 70, 80%. Is it 80% now?
00:46:45
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.
00:46:46
Speaker 3: Do you want to just tell them?
00:46:49
Speaker 2: That's crazy stats, isn't it?
00:46:50
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.
00:46:52
Speaker 2: 80%. And you think it's only going to get more, do you reckon?
00:46:55
Speaker 3: 100% it will.
00:46:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well.
00:46:57
Speaker 2: There'll be no white men left.
00:46:59
Speaker 3: Well, you look at American football, like majority of them are African-American. Yeah. Well, no, like. No, but they're the best athletes. They're just born. Like, they're just God-gifted talent. Like, you know, like. It's, I remember someone was saying that if you were to put like the fastest black man up against the fastest white man, like- Can't compete. Biologically, like the black man will win because just the way they've- Yeah, yeah.
00:47:22
Speaker 2: When the speed of the game, like you said, how quick it is, it just suits the indigenous and islander, doesn't it? Like there's still a place for the white man. We're a dying breed.
00:47:34
Speaker 3: I don't know where I see it. I see it somewhere. I see the minority. I see the 2%.
00:47:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, how many Lebanese?
00:47:41
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know if there are any that many. I don't think he's actually going to search it up.
00:47:45
Speaker 2: He's searching it up.
00:47:46
Speaker 3: I reckon there is no joke. I reckon I'm going to say there's 1% of Lebanese players in that area. Karaz.
00:47:52
Speaker 2: Karaz.
00:47:53
Speaker 3: Tony Suka. Alex Twal. Alex Twal. Shit.
00:47:57
Speaker 1: There's that little player that there's no official percentage published.
00:48:01
Speaker 3: It's 1%. It'll be like 1%.
00:48:03
Speaker 2: Crazy.
00:48:03
Speaker 3: Less than 1%. Yeah. Oh, Mitch Moses. Adam Dewey, of course.
00:48:08
Speaker 2: Mitch Moses, yeah.
00:48:09
Speaker 3: So that's only five players, right? Amos Biskey plays over in Wigan. James Romano.
00:48:15
Speaker 2: What? He's a good man. Champion. Nick Kotrick become a good mate of mine.
00:48:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:48:19
Speaker 2: He was at Cattle and Dragons for a while.
00:48:21
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
00:48:21
Speaker 2: Proud Serb. Yes. He's one of his mates. Aidan Caesar was here for a bit.
00:48:26
Speaker 3: Yes, correct. Who else was there? James Romanos. He plays for Toulouse, front rower. Oh, yeah. Half Australian, half Lebanese.
00:48:34
Speaker 2: He goes good too.
00:48:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, he goes good. You should sign him.
00:48:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. Toulouse are stealing all our players actually.
00:48:41
Speaker 3: Where do they come from?
00:48:42
Speaker 2: They recruited well because obviously getting, what do you say, relegated or pushed up? What's the opposite? Relegated is when you go down.
00:48:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, they got promoted.
00:48:51
Speaker 2: Promoted, that's the one. They got promoted. They did a good job to recruit for a team. I think their recruitment was good for the first year. The other one's the London Broncos, Darren Lockyer. So I don't know what.
00:49:02
Speaker 3: The– And where did they get investment from? From NRL? Yeah.
00:49:07
Speaker 2: I always ask a few people about that because if Lockyer invested so heavy, there must be something.
00:49:12
Speaker 3: Something.
00:49:12
Speaker 2: So are they looking– have you heard much about that?
00:49:14
Speaker 3: Well, they were meant to be promoted this year, but now they've got this system in place where if your club is bringing a certain percentage of revenue through ticket sales, membership, you have to have a big stadium. Like they all increase your points. So it's not necessarily a relegation promotion anymore. It comes back to how much, I guess– not investment– a contribution you have to rugby league.
00:49:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
00:49:43
Speaker 3: Keeps you in the super league.
00:49:44
Speaker 2: In the super league, where it used to be last.
00:49:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's your last. And then they have the one million pound game, remember?
00:49:50
Speaker 2: One million pound game. Yeah, yeah.
00:49:51
Speaker 3: That's your fight for survival. Yeah, it was too, yeah. Yeah, but they don't have that anymore.
00:49:54
Speaker 2: No, that's dropped. It's gone.
00:49:56
Speaker 3: Maybe because.
00:49:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think London Broncos will be up there soon though.
00:49:59
Speaker 3: Mate, they're pumping teams 100 something.
00:50:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got the good roster for the.
00:50:03
Speaker 3: Breed, Cameron Gillard, Siva Havili. Yeah.
00:50:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker 3: Dean Hawkins. Who else was there that went?
00:50:11
Speaker 2: You know your Super League, you.
00:50:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, not bad. Not bad. I was close to going, but I was close to going to Toulouse. I was close to going to Toulouse.
00:50:17
Speaker 2: Toulouse.
00:50:18
Speaker 3: I thought I won the championship in 2023. I would have loved it, yeah.
00:50:22
Speaker 2: South of France.
00:50:23
Speaker 3: I think at the time, I think we just had me and my third kid.
00:50:27
Speaker 2: You've got three now, bro.
00:50:28
Speaker 3: I've got three now, bro. I'm ready for the snip, mate. Book me in. I want to ask you about the pressures of being like a halfback in the modern day game, like you had a lot of pressure on your shoulders coming into the league as an 18-year-old playing for a premier club like the Roosters. But a classic example would be Izzy Katoa, Lachlan Galvin as well. I just feel like they just– I know it's your responsibility. You are the general of the team. And the wins and the losses always fall on your shoulders. But I still feel like it's a bit unfair, especially when you're a kid coming into– into the league. Another good example is Zane Harrison from the Gold Coast Titans.
00:51:05
Speaker 2: Zane Harrison, yeah, he could be a player too.
00:51:07
Speaker 3: My great player, but hey, he's only played, what, 15 games, 14 games, and he's now asking for like 800,000 plus.
00:51:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:51:18
Speaker 3: So that comes with pressure in itself, right?
00:51:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. I look at it, I think it's just, it's like all sports, isn't it? Like certain positions have a job to do and that's just what it is. Like I think, Like there's no doubt you can look from the compassionate side of things and even from personal experience and be like, oh, it's harsh people. But it's just reality. It's sort of what you know as a young kid when you come in from the juniors, you know that if your goal is to be that player, to be a first grade halfback or 5'8 or fullback or a key position on the field that's meant to be the shot caller to an extent, that's your job. You just know that's what comes. It's like a striker in a football or a fly half or halfback in union. Expectation. You just know that that's part and parcel. Is there personal agendas as we know like that I don't like that part of the game?
00:52:11
Speaker 3: You believe there is?
00:52:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. You know, like from different relationships, if I'm your mate and we don't like this guy, we're trying to grasp this person, let's go after him. That's once again, but that's life, isn't it? That's in every part of every walk of life. So that's another thing that you've got to deal with or that's reality in sport and in business. But, yeah, if you get your head around all of that and you realize what you're– any path you take, there's all those angles and agendas or pressures you're going to have to deal with. So that's all part of just like learning your skills. You've got to learn that part of the game as well.
00:52:45
Speaker 3: Did you experience any of that in your career? Do you feel like there was an agenda on you?
00:52:50
Speaker 2: I don't even like talking from that point of view. Like I reckon people do have agendas or I hate being that victim and talking like that. I think it sounds a bit.
00:52:59
Speaker 3: That's fine.
00:52:59
Speaker 2: It's a dirty conversation, isn't it? Like I don't live like that. But I think, I just think there's some, you know, you're looking at this year.
00:53:06
Speaker 3: The only reason I ask you is because like we're talking about, you know, young halves coming through. Did you ever experience something similar to what they were experiencing?
00:53:12
Speaker 2: I reckon a good example is this year where you say, without trying to be confrontational, you see like situations with Galvin. You know, like and then different people that want, you know, that they might have moved on for Galvin and then you see different media outlets or something that might have a manager with someone else.
00:53:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:53:30
Speaker 2: Like they're sort of personal, aren't they?
00:53:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:53:33
Speaker 2: And I think those things would be difficult as a player. But as I said, once again, it's just the way that things are running the way it is.
00:53:41
Speaker 3: Because, yeah, if he wasn't with Isaac Moses, like would he have– would the spotlight be– As big.
00:53:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that type of stuff. Is that unfair or is that just the way it is? But I think that's, yeah. I think going back to your question in the first place around, you know, pressure on halves, it doesn't mean just because that's part and parcel that it's easy. And I think becoming the best player, you know, the guys that we talk about as mortals dealt with pressure, expectation, repeat performance, criticism better than anyone and handled moments better players that had really good careers might have gone up and down and missed the mark on that top end because they didn't deal with the pressure or coaches not liking them and then you get other guys that can come in for a couple of years and then they get pushed out the wayside maybe they got all the ability but they're a bit fragile with dealing with all that so it's like any profession you got to master all of it or be as good as you can at dealing with everything don't you yeah but um yeah i think you know i just think yeah in all sports you the In key positions, you cop the criticism. That's just the way it is, if I put that right.
00:54:50
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of pressure, Pedro, you know, I want to put you under a bit of pressure and duress. We've got a fun game. Okay. Let's bring in the CNA Surveillance Charades.
00:55:00
Speaker 2: I don't even know who that is.
00:55:08
Speaker 3: Shut up. You don't know who I got. You don't know who I got. Does he know?
00:55:14
Speaker 2: Does he know?
00:55:16
Speaker 3: Does he know who I got?
00:55:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:55:18
Speaker 3: Do you actually know who I am?
00:55:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it. Oh, you got it? Yeah, I got it.
00:55:21
Speaker 3: Okay, good, good, good. What have we got?
00:55:22
Speaker 1: Go on.
00:55:23
Speaker 3: So what's the rules?
00:55:25
Speaker 1: Give me the– Boys, so you both have a player, a retired player above your heads.
00:55:29
Speaker 2: You've got to ask each other– It's me, isn't it?
00:55:32
Speaker 1: No, you've got to ask each other one question.
00:55:36
Speaker 3: Can we just– you know what? I know we're– like we've got the rules, right? But I just want to reward– the guy that's actually got it correct. So if I get a correct answer, can I go again? Or do I have to give it to him? You know what I mean?
00:55:50
Speaker 2: Okay, mate.
00:55:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, just go with the flow. Go with the flow.
00:55:52
Speaker 2: Oh, so you get double questions.
00:55:53
Speaker 3: You get back-to-back questions. I reckon I can go again. Okay. Let's do that.
00:55:57
Speaker 1: All right, so who's going first? Scissors, paper, rock.
00:55:59
Speaker 3: All right, go.
00:56:00
Speaker 2: You go, brother. All right.
00:56:01
Speaker 3: Scissors, paper, rock. Scissors, paper, rock. We're going to be here all day. It's fine. Okay. What era by? Like a retired player.
00:56:11
Speaker 2: Far out.
00:56:12
Speaker 1: Within the last 10 to 15 years.
00:56:14
Speaker 3: Last 10 to 15 years. Okay. Have I played for a Sydney club?
00:56:19
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:56:20
Speaker 3: Okay. Have I played State of Origin for New South Wales?
00:56:23
Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
00:56:26
Speaker 3: Sydney club. Okay.
00:56:29
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:56:31
Speaker 3: Okay, it's getting tricky now.
00:56:32
Speaker 1: Maybe max two in a row.
00:56:35
Speaker 3: You're going to get it.
00:56:36
Speaker 2: No, but like give him a chance. Give him a chance.
00:56:38
Speaker 3: Go on then. Go on then. You go. You go.
00:56:40
Speaker 2: Did I play for a Sydney club?
00:56:42
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:56:44
Speaker 2: Did I play for State of Origin?
00:56:49
Speaker 3: Yes. All right. He said state of origin, he said Queensland or New South Wales. So if he said blues or, yeah, anyway, too bad buddy.
00:57:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did waste the question then, didn't I?
00:57:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. All right, all right. Did I play for the Sydney Roosters?
00:57:11
Speaker 1: No.
00:57:14
Speaker 2: Shit. Did I play for Sydney Roosters?
00:57:18
Speaker 3: No. Did I play for, this is tricky. Was I a spine player? So one, six, seven or nine? No. Oh, that's all right. That's good. That's good. That's good.
00:57:31
Speaker 2: Did I play for Queensland?
00:57:33
Speaker 3: No. Okay. Am I a front rower? No.
00:57:38
Speaker 2: What the fuck? You've broken it down, Bart. Was I a forward? Yes. Paul Gallant.
00:57:47
Speaker 3: No way. There is no way. There is no way. There is no way. Did you tell him? No way. How did you get that? That is unbelievable.
00:57:59
Speaker 1: Him.
00:57:59
Speaker 3: He got in your head. 100%. All right.
00:58:01
Speaker 2: I'll just narrow it down. Paul Gallant's our man. New South Wales captain.
00:58:06
Speaker 3: Oh my God. That is unbelievable. What a call. When's his fight go?
00:58:11
Speaker 2: When's it?
00:58:12
Speaker 3: Oh, that's November. November 4 or something.
00:58:15
Speaker 2: Next weekend. He should get that age.
00:58:16
Speaker 3: We're getting actually Nelson on. Yeah.
00:58:18
Speaker 2: Are you getting him on?
00:58:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting big Nelson on. That'll be interesting. If he can fit in that chair. Who am I, bro? I'm not a front rower. Am I a center?
00:58:27
Speaker 2: I think you played a little bit there.
00:58:29
Speaker 3: All right. So I've played center before.
00:58:31
Speaker 2: I think. Okay.
00:58:32
Speaker 3: I'm a winger. Retired. Far out. Retired. This is fucking hard, bro. Joe Hayne?
00:58:45
Speaker 1: No.
00:58:46
Speaker 3: Fuck. Why is he full back? Fuck. I'll give up, bro.
00:58:50
Speaker 2: No more questions?
00:58:51
Speaker 3: I'll give up.
00:58:52
Speaker 2: The man, the myth, the legend. You know, I did a double. It looks like Aiden Caesar.
00:59:02
Speaker 1: Fuck.
00:59:03
Speaker 2: How did you not know that was me? How did you not know that was me, bro?
00:59:07
Speaker 3: Bro, I did not think you were going to do me. Fuck. Oh, that hurts. Fuck.
00:59:13
Speaker 2: That was a hard one.
00:59:15
Speaker 3: That was so hard. Anyway, that's charades. Proudly brought to you by C & A Surveyors. Thank you so much, Legends, for jumping on. For all your residential, commercial, surveying, and laser scanning needs, visit cnasurveyors.com.au. That was an unbelievable pick.
00:59:34
Speaker 2: I'm claiming that.
00:59:35
Speaker 3: That is unbelievable. Now, I want to actually– like you've gone through a bit of a positive life change. You've converted to Islam.
00:59:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:59:45
Speaker 3: How did you find Islam?
00:59:47
Speaker 2: Bros, it's been a really cool journey. I found it when I went back to Europe.
00:59:54
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:59:54
Speaker 2: So I stopped drinking. Anytime I've stayed on the straight and narrow and taken out, devilish behavior or bad things out of my life i've always gone to a higher power i've always felt a spiritual connection but um i'd never grew up in with a religion um i didn't i i've read into the separate separate religions over the years i've read into buddhism for a bit uh christianity a little bit but to be honest um when i went back overseas uh there's a big muslim community in perpignan close to africa and morocco and algeria there's a lot of um families that move into the south of france mainly algerians my wife is half algerian um so sort of second year when i went back with a clear mind and some a mindset to change you know like i gave up the drink and um i naturally always went to to hire and and sort of did some soul searching and a good friend of mine over there that i sort of knew before was a muslim guy um Around that time, I started to also connect with my wife. It was only early days, but obviously she's a Muslim girl. Our friends locally were Muslims. So that sort of was where the curiosity started. I started going to the mosque with my mate and just started feeling peace, man. Like, to be honest, I'd go to the mosque. I started feeling peace in my heart. I started slowly... trying to practice, obviously started reading the Quran in an English version, obviously. But obviously being a white Western Australian, the Arabic side of things was a slow process.
01:01:42
Speaker 3: Of course.
01:01:44
Speaker 2: But, man, more than anything, it was the first religion or faith that I sort of felt where I felt a sense of peace. I loved the culture of Islam. I loved through my wife and our community and Muslim friends, I loved the way the Muslims– uh, traded family, the way that they, uh, the piece that the, a lot of the friends of mine were living with. Um, and then obviously my relationship with my wife, um, opened up the curiosity more naturally.
01:02:13
Speaker 3: Of course.
01:02:13
Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, man, it's been a really good journey and, um, I converted about three, three and a half years ago now. Um, as I said, it was slow steps at the start. Um, but yeah, the whole, uh, transition was, was, it was, it gave me direction and purpose. Um, and the more I've grown into my faith, um, it's been a, it's been a huge North star, man. Like, um, a lot of my prayers have been answered. Um, as a person, my, my temperament and my, the patience in my life is, have had huge transformations and yeah, I just feel a sense of direction since I've had, since I've converted. So yeah, it's, it was a sort of funny, um, situation for me when i came back to australia at the start i remember yeah.
01:02:58
Speaker 3: We had that little we met up as well and yeah i think you brought it up actually you brought it up to me yeah and uh i don't think you brought it up to the world no you didn't you didn't tell people that you converted yet no uh but when you did like how did it start how did you start feeling a You know, being here. Because obviously over there you're comfortable. You don't really know that many people there. So they're not going to judge you for it. But you know when you come back here being Mitch Pierce, the ex-NRL superstar, that you were going to get a bit of attention from it.
01:03:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you say judgment, it's such a taboo topic, isn't it? Because it's something that I hate about the world and it's such a taboo subject of religion and all this preconceived judgment. But it's cool that you say it because I did feel that. And saying that, the whole transition and the, you know, I'd haven't come out and spoke about, I've spoke about Islam bits and pieces. I think the journos have done a couple of stories and I think most people are aware that I converted. It's obviously a private thing but I'm more than comfortable that people know. But, yeah, I suppose my fears at the start when I did come back were there naturally a little bit just to, how people would perceive it. But yeah, that stuff's way out of my mind now. What I've found with faith for me, it's been very organic. It's given me, as I said before, it's given me direction and purpose. I know when, you know, I worship God and I follow principles and disciplines, my life has just been a lot more peaceful and happy and I met my beautiful wife. I believe that nothing's a coincidence in life. You know, I really believe that. And I've always believed that. Faith allowed me to dive into that even more.
01:04:45
Speaker 3: It's given you a foundation.
01:04:46
Speaker 2: It's given me a foundation and the routines and the principles of Islam is something that really caught me. You know, you stop for your five prayers. The gratitude and blessings that I get out of that, you know, I've had some really amazing experiences where my prayers have been answered, you know, continuously and I feel being a human being and imperfect in every way, like we all are, I know that when I go away from what can get tempted in everyday life and get distracted, I lose my alignment. And that's why, you know, it's been such a good thing to find God and it's been an amazing transition, man.
01:05:26
Speaker 3: Bro, I'm stoked for you. Like I feel if it's serving you and you feel a sense of belonging, you're getting nothing but positives, then like– what's there to regret, what's there to kind of like feel embarrassed about, what's there, you know what I mean? Like you should feel proud and like talk about your personal journey because you never know, there might be someone else out there that has gone through a similar situation like yourself. And like we talked about judgment, like I'm like you, like I don't understand how people are so quick to judge. Like you shouldn't feel embarrassed or no one should judge you for, you know, finding Islam and having that as a positive thing in your life. You know, I think there's, Good and bad in every religion. That's the reality of the world, unfortunately. There's good and bad in every culture. But, again, it comes down to the person, the individual. And, like, if you're giving off good values, you're respectful, me as a person, why shouldn't I, you know, be respectful back and just accept you for you? You know what I mean?
01:06:27
Speaker 2: No, definitely. And I think that's the biggest change. I've had, like, being, as I said, a white Western kid from Sydney and You're obviously Lebanese, so you've grown up and seen a lot of different perspectives.
01:06:39
Speaker 3: It's not as, I guess, out of the ordinary for me. I've got Muslim mates, I've got Christian mates, I've got all sorts of lives. But for me, being brought up in a Lebanese household, uh and going to lebanon like yeah you kind of assimilate like there's like it's almost like 50 50 right like we all live together and peace and harmony um but yeah like you said it's harder for you and it's a bit more like whoa like yeah it's a bit like a knee-jerk reaction like oh my god mitchell peace is muslim now.
01:07:09
Speaker 2: It's saying that brother i never really got that much strange reaction like it was actually really organic and um i think at the end of the day everyone's living their own life and i think you know you don't meet someone and straight away so what's your faith i'm going to talk to you i'm not going to but that's that's something that you know i hate about the world and i've been able to live in two different cultures which has been amazing a lot of my friends overseas are arabic french-speaking arabics um and and there's so many beautiful different perspectives that they see the world than how i potentially live around different friends and family here i've always had mates from all different cultures growing up and i've known muslim boys and christian people all my life but the perspective changes is also been amazing, you know, just to see and learn and find yourself in that sort of phase. But yeah, man, like, um, you know, so many good things has come into my life through the discipline of, of Islam. And, um, you know, I love speaking about it because, you know, I've just seen so many positive changes and, uh, it's made me a better man, a more accountable man, uh, and taken more responsibility and given me direction that, you know, I wouldn't say my life was, was ever unhappy or that I was lost, but, I was probably searching for short-term fixes where, you know, I know when you've got a North Star and you're following your faith and being guided, purpose, you know, good things happen and it's only a benefit for people, man. Everyone's on their own journey and, you know, whatever it is that guides you is meant to be but this was my journey so far and it's been good, man.
01:08:38
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, bro. Well done.
01:08:39
Speaker 2: Thank you, brother.
01:08:40
Speaker 3: How was it speaking to your family about it?
01:08:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was– my family were great. Like naturally I had a little bit of a– I'm pretty independent in that regard and I don't get too caught up with being controlled by what other people think with stuff like that, especially deep decisions. um but yeah i got religiously married to my wife uh overseas it was a pretty pretty private sort of thing that was a new experience for me you.
01:09:09
Speaker 3: Know that is so cool yeah.
01:09:12
Speaker 2: Man like so like You can imagine it all happens fast as love happens.
01:09:17
Speaker 3: It's not like life changes so quick.
01:09:19
Speaker 2: It happens so fast, man. But one thing it's made me realize without getting too deep on you is, you know, nothing's a coincidence.
01:09:25
Speaker 3: I agree.
01:09:25
Speaker 2: And when you get out of yourself and you trust the God that's guiding you or however people want to perceive their journey, it all sort of makes sense. And, yeah, man, I got religiously married, which was an amazing experience. you know, I won't lie, in those early days, even my missus laughed because her friends, you know, it was a funny experience going from, you know, not being a part of that culture, next minute you're getting religiously married.
01:09:55
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. We're in the 30s now. Yeah. You've never been introduced to the culture. You have no idea what it entails. Yeah. And then out of nowhere, like, you know, you find a connection and you're intrigued and you go in further and further and then boom, next thing you know, you're fully committed.
01:10:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
01:10:12
Speaker 3: No, it is.
01:10:12
Speaker 2: It's... Yeah, but as I said, man, I'm the happiest I've ever been and I've found peace with my family. I've got a beautiful wife, beautiful little daughter and, you know, faith is a great guidance for us. As I said before, I'm not perfect. None of us are perfect but, you know, I've found clarity in the faith, man, and I respect anyone's faith and I think at the end of the day, you know, this space that I've tapped into now with Toddy around Reboot and helping the youth, it's, you know, Everyone needs a direction and a purpose in life. And I believe that it's there for everyone. It really is. I think you've just got to clear out the shit. You've got to clear out the white noise, the temptations. Faith's a beautiful thing for that. It's not the only way for people, but it is a beautiful thing for that. But people have to find their own way. But, yeah, I think you find your peace when you get out of all that other shit.
01:11:04
Speaker 3: I love it, bro. Speaking of your dad, is it true that he does– Like he's got a bit of a side gig. He's like, is he a guitarist or is he a vocalist? Is this true?
01:11:17
Speaker 2: Well, Dad's– he's a man with layers, the old man. He's a bit of a– he's the boss. He's the boss.
01:11:23
Speaker 3: He's a man.
01:11:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dad's been playing in a band for about 30 years.
01:11:28
Speaker 3: Has he?
01:11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because like– When I say 30 years, it would have been– you know Mike Whitney, obviously, the legend.
01:11:35
Speaker 1: Of course.
01:11:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, Who Dares Wins. Him and Dad are in the band together. um that is incredible watch one time but they um yeah like so dad got into music like when he was i think his dad his dad who passed away when he was young okay i was about 14 when his dad died and he's the older brother and i think his dad he'll have to tell you himself i'm pretty sure his dad or one of the uncles was into music or you know played guitar and that and it was always a passion for him to learn music So we started practising the guitar and it was at my– I played for North Ride Hawks in the Balmain comp when I was under 10s. And the guitarist who's still in the band now, Ray Nostig, great guy, old rocker, chillest guy you'll ever meet, we played together. Me and Ray's son, Todd, played in North Ride together.
01:12:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
01:12:25
Speaker 2: So they played at the end of season award night. And then I think since then they've sort of played in their bands. They go all around the pubs in Sydney. They've played in some good pubs around Sydney and get plenty of following.
01:12:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
01:12:40
Speaker 3: That's incredible.
01:12:41
Speaker 2: That's an interesting dude. There's a lot of layers to him.
01:12:43
Speaker 3: When I saw– so my mate went to a pub and he sent a video to me. He's like, the great man himself. I was like, no way.
01:12:52
Speaker 2: Is that Matt Georges?
01:12:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.
01:12:54
Speaker 2: He texted me the other day.
01:12:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, bro. I was like, no way. I'm seeing Mitch next week. He's like, bro, ask him, ask him. You guys are pretty good actually. Fuck, it's incredible. We should go out one night. For sure. Listen, it would have been a Mitchell Pierce podcast if we don't speak about New South Wales.
01:13:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:13:11
Speaker 3: I've let that go, brother. Have you let it go? Have you let it go, bud? Have you let it go?
01:13:18
Speaker 2: Origin. You know, it's funny, man.
01:13:20
Speaker 3: Do you reflect back on that period of time?
01:13:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's funny, like, I'll tell you when you retire and you'd know just the same. Like, I've let footy go. Like, I'm at peace with the next phase of my life. You take all the lessons and you appreciate the goodness of what you got out of the game. um but yeah there's there's always that lingering regret around origin like there's one part of me that's so grateful that i got to play a lot of origin and to play and get called back into the team a fair bit you obviously got respect off your teammates and your coaches and always gave a hundred percent but um and there was some good stuff in there but the the lack of success is something that you know if you if you said to me you're going to be born again and come back in your career you'd like to have some some moments again and be able to rewrite your origin career because it's not something that I'm– I'll be honest, it's not something that I feel like real proud of.
01:14:13
Speaker 3: Are you too hard on yourself?
01:14:15
Speaker 2: Well, I went to a luncheon once and I was sitting there and talking about origin and it's not something that I say with confidence and I'm not trying to be like a sob story with that. But when you're in a team when you're not really– you don't have that much success, even though you've played a lot, yeah, it's probably one of those things. It's a bit of a– it's a funny memory.
01:14:35
Speaker 3: There were games there, there were series there, I should say, where it was decided by a try or two points, right? So I think you're a bit harsh on yourself and you're coming up against arguably the best ever put together team in NRL history. So- And I know you're probably going to say you want to use that as an excuse, which tells me a lot about your character. But at the same time, I don't think you need to be too hard on yourself. But if you know within yourself that you threw everything at it, then you should be at peace with it. You then start feeling regret if you feel like there was more that you could have added.
01:15:05
Speaker 2: And I've let go of a lot of that. Like when you ask the question, it's just like if you look back at your career and you go you're grateful for a lot of things and you're proud, obviously any time Origin comes up, you sort of have that– A little bit of– Uncomfortability? I don't know what the word is, but it's gone to bed a bit more now. But, you know, when you did ask the question.
01:15:26
Speaker 3: How did you feel when I asked that?
01:15:27
Speaker 2: It was probably a bit of shame there for a long time, I reckon. That's probably the best way to, you know, as I said again, it's not a sob story, but I mean– No, but– But it's like if you look back on you as a whole New South Wales team and– because when you play for New South Wales, as you know, or you play rep footy or you play for the Roosters or you play for Penrith, Like you're playing for majority of the, I know for me, like as a person, you're playing to play well yourself, but you're playing to make other people proud as well. And that's not to be corny, but that was sort of the biggest kick I got out of my sporting career was like making other people proud as well. Like, you know, when you'd have a big game, you're happy that you played well yourself, but you're happy that you did it for your teammate because you want the guy next to you to respect you, you know, and You know, that's what's in your character. And then you're proud that you've done it well for the club. And then when you go into New South Wales, I know in 2019, I was like relieved that I could just go and like, and other people feel proud of you.
01:16:26
Speaker 3: I could remember your celebration. I could see your, when the camera went to you, just, yeah, I think it was a bit of a mix. It was a mix of emotions. It was relief, but the joy as well. Like you fucking, you did it. As an adversary, you know, former opponent, uh but proud new south welshman like out of any everyone in that team when i saw you win a series i was like fuck he deserved it like that was my reaction thanks brother no no that was my reaction because playing state of origin is not easy you played more over 15 times i'm gonna assume yeah over 15 times and you don't go into a state of origin series ever wanting to lose you never go into a footy game ever wanted to lose and the fact that you finally got that moment like I was happy for you. Thanks, Bala. And for the state. Thanks, Bala, yeah. Yeah, that's how I– yeah, I just wanted to let you know. Thank you, Bala.
01:17:15
Speaker 2: No, I appreciate it. Yeah, I think it's funny. Like you've probably gone through it when you look back on your career. And as I said, like it's important I think when you finish as a player or an athlete to put things to bed.
01:17:25
Speaker 3: For sure.
01:17:26
Speaker 2: But then every now and then when you get into these type of conversations or you go to a luncheon and you think back on things, there's different emotions that come up or different regrets or– different.
01:17:37
Speaker 3: Uh there's no judgment in this space brother this this is you know you can be yourself with that with no judgment and everyone watching today there is definitely no judgment.
01:17:47
Speaker 2: Yeah but i think that's the beauty of um sport isn't that lucky you win some you lose some you have experiences life in general you get on you take your experiences and then you move into the next phase and you use all that wisdom to grow and go again but yeah man it's um Yeah, I'm so grateful. When you finish your career, you're grateful and you'll be the same, you know, that you get to play. Not only you've got a healthy body that you get to play for a long time, but you get to meet so many good people and get to do what you love and get some benefits out of the game that only the few get to. So you've got to be grateful, man, for your career and wins and losses.
01:18:23
Speaker 3: Without a doubt, brother. Will you be starting up your podcast with Tony soon?
01:18:27
Speaker 2: I don't know, brother.
01:18:27
Speaker 3: What's going on there?
01:18:29
Speaker 2: No, so we sort of were on the path with it. And then I obviously went back to Europe with the bubs. The podcasting for us was something that we enjoyed. But, you know, we sort of were doing other stuff with life. So you've got to be 100%, don't you? But no, we enjoyed it. Enjoyed connecting with some elite halves and having some good conversations. But. yeah the focus for us is more around this reboot stuff now and you know building some community and around that to give back to the youth and plenty of passion around that and I want to help.
01:19:01
Speaker 3: Well brother continue to see it grow continue i'm happy to see you grow as a person um man all the best uh i know one thing as well with uh with arabs uh you never settle that one kid it's definitely gonna be two or three so get ready for that make sure you're performing and uh i look forward to see you again my man thank you brother