Decoding Tokenization and Its Impact on Global Finance

Collin Klein: All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Cody's Roads and Rabbit Holes. And we are honored to be hosting E. Burlingame, a former Green Beret, worked in the financial sector, has one of the most comprehensive and storied backgrounds I've ever seen. he was kind enough to come on and give us some wisdom. I had a series of questions regarding his time in the financial sector. specifically because of the rapid development of technology and how fast things are evolving, the new cross border payment systems that are coming into play, tokenization, blockchain, computationalism, as as you have described as becoming the new religion and to replace the financialization religion, which I I thought that was one of the most genius things I've ever, because that it's the ultimate black box of Trust us, we have the real numbers and you just gonna have to live with it. So, starting, I guess first thing on my list is tokenization. This is something that's thrown around a lot as a concept. I'm not sure as many people understand it as a premise. Do you remember I mean tokenization has really been around a long time. I mean, any time we digitalized or you know, a a hard physical asset and put it on a piece of paper, technically you know, a bond certificate, that's that's tokenization effectively. But now we're moving into a realm where they want to tokenize every single thing of perceived value to re leverage back into the system. At least that's as far as I see it. So would you care to help us understand that a little better?
E.M. Burlingame: Well, I think y you're absolutely right. So so let's let's parse out two separate sides to the same thing. One is a mechanistic system of processes and functions, and the other one is how it's used. And you're absolutely spot on right. Anytime we have any form of a contract, even an agreement via text message, that's a token. technical terms, it's a token, right? Now we just use tokens in the concepts now of technology. Contractualization, financialization, whatever it is, right? But initially the concept of contracts and we've digitized the contracts and we call them tokens. It's much more expansive than that though, because like I've been doing programming on a AI system the last five five days and I've been burning through a vast amount of tokens. What are they? They're just an agreement. They're just agreements between me and the software, you know, the clawed AI anthropic for I will pay this amount for this amount of compute capacities. Those are still tokens. Well it's the same thing of I have this much of this thing and you're willing to pay me this much under these terms. That's a token. So we need to not get to, you know, the mechanistic structural process side of things are not we don't need to be worried about those terribly much. Now how they are used in certain ways, we do need to pay attention to. So I'll give you an example. Where we, you know, what's happening with the transition, and I I've spent years working in this space starting in the late 90s. Where we've been on the financial side is we've been trying to undo all of this intermediation that jacks up fees and costs and lives parasitically off of everything. And we've been trying to do that by disintermediating transactions. Blockchain is perfect for that because blockchain provides for the ability if it's done right and the chains right and all of that, custodial and all of it. But you at the technological level, the structural level, the legal language captured level, we can use computer systems to d at a fraction of the cost to disintermediate transactions that used to take maybe 10% of the deal just to do the transaction itself. So that's a net positive for all of us because it lowers the cost of capital, it lowers the cost of finance, it lowers the cost of our own money. At least it's supposed to. It doesn't seem to be coming down too much, but it it'll it'll happen. where the tokenization and the blockchain systems, et cetera, are a net negative, is that they're being used, and I'm not even worried about the crime stuff, because that happens anyways. They're gonna figure that out. And then we figure out, you that's the threat finance stuff that I looked at heavily when I was doing targeting, you know, worked with the people who focused on that. I just needed to know enough of it to keep doing what I was doing. There was other people, gentlemen whose name I won't mention over at DEA, who was really one of the best guys in the world at that, right? So threat finance is going to do threat finance. They'll use freaking, you know, kernels of rice if they need to. So what I am concerned with on the tokenized blockchain system, particularly around Bitcoin, is the locking in of tens of trillions of dollars of theft that is now irrecoverable because it's in this artificial system. Right. It's been taken from real underlying assets through derivatives and derivatization off into this other digital system where somehow miraculously, magically, now all of that theft is locked in as real money in this digital form. And how do you recover that? See if somebody steals my building or they steal my company, I can get those back. I can't get back artificial money in a token that's now miraculously worth seventy, eighty thousand dollars per token or a hundred or a million, et cetera. So that's one side I'm I'm rather concerned with. The second piece is that moving from financialism, which is the religion that took over in the sixteen hundreds, that quite literally supplanted Christianity while wearing Christianity as a skin suit like Ed Gyne, computationalism is now taking over for financialism and the concept the fundamental concept of computationalism is that wealth is created by converting elect electricity into heat through the form of computation and the burning of that electricity and the creation of heat through complex binary processing creates wealth. That is the most absurd alchemy in the history of the world, and yet we want to believe it.
Collin Klein: Would wouldn't they say that it's about increasing productivity would be the argument?
E.M. Burlingame: No, they're actually straight up articulating that wealth is created through the conversion of electricity into computation. The argument they're not even using the argument productivity gains anymore because we stopped having productivity gains probably 25 years ago. Everything now, 25, 26 years ago, that was what the dot-com was proving. All we've gotten now is dramatically increased computation to compute orders of magnitude higher complexity that the compute itself created.
Collin Klein: Kinda like CERN. At least that's what it looks like to me. It's just generating vast amounts of data that no one can read.
E.M. Burlingame: And we don't even know it's real anyways, 'cause it's an artifact and some sensor that was tuned to some BS thing, anyways. Right. So
Collin Klein: Right.
Corey: That's why they're having these what do they call them, where they have a lot of storage of information that they're building data centers all over the the US.
Collin Klein: Data centers.
E.M. Burlingame: Data centers. Yeah. That was my first company, by the way. That was the first company I got funded in two thousand was to build data centers. And that's what I did in FinTech before that, at Nextcord was help build out their data centers. I did other things too, working under a one of the best mentors I've ever had, best executives I've ever worked for, Sean Dean. So that's a you know, I
Corey: Mm.
E.M. Burlingame: I've been in I did data centers for a good five years, high end data centers. And then I got in. Mm-hmm.
Collin Klein: There no, sorry, there th there's there's gotta be some utility that they're gar they're gonna be gaining out of this or it can't all be BS, right?
E.M. Burlingame: No, it's it's all BS. It's all BS. See, if you go back to Egypt, did that did that Pharaoh have the ability to flood the Nile or decide to not flood the Nile because the people were be misbehaving? Or did he spend a vast amount of time and energy ensuring that he had all the people, you know, the scientists of the time, legitimate scientists and analysts of the time that Understood all of the signals of there was going to be a flood or a or a or a drought that year. And then he got ahead of the messaging. That's the way it's always been. If you've got a $10 trillion a year, I'm just using that number, let's say you got a hundred trillion dollar a year made-up economy. And maybe there's only two trillion dollars in real economy, and that's not enough for your, you know, your games, but you got a hundred trillion dollar made-up economy. And two to three trillion is real, because that's the underlying actual asset that's creating enough of an illusion for this conflation. You'd spend ninety trillion dollars faking the rest. Because you're gonna get seven to eight trillion, you know, you're gonna get what six to eight trillion, six to seven trillion that's totally fake, but wouldn't exist be if you hadn't spent the other ninety trillion dollars of fake money to fake it.
Collin Klein: Yeah.
Corey: Mm.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm. Yeah, the size and scope incre yeah. I mean and you still keep your margin low so it's not really a big even though it's a lot of money, it's an insane amount of money, yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we w the that's the problem, right? Humans you know, we're linguistic monkeys. We also are inherently and this is the we see this in other monkeys that are not verbal. We see it in cats. I can see it in cats when I'm feeding them treats and stuff. They know they're not counting numbers, but they know when I'm not you know, I'm being less generous to one or the other one. Monkeys are really good at it, so are some other animals and not even just mammals, birds, other things. So, you know, this analytic capacity in us of who has more and who doesn't is very deeply wired. And You know, so the fairness metrics and who's got more and who's got less is very deeply wired in us. And that's all easily hijacked by by math, you know, numbers. Math is just a language, but by language. Either math is a language, you know, with the illusion of econom economics tied to it, because economics is just pure made up bullshit. That that's like that's the give me one second. I can't think of the equivalency in the Christian faith, but you know, it's it's the mystic, you know, the mystic belief system that pins up, you know, everything is economics, just made up bullshit for the most part. made up to justify whatever's being preached from the bench, you know, which is the Fed or whoever the hell it is. Right. So at this point we're we're where they are. And you get enough people who make enough money and they get to play, and you let some people make money off the scraps off the table and crypto and other things. But it's all a scam, it's all a lie, it's all an illusion. There is no wealth created by the conversion of electricity through computation. Unless I can eat it, build a ho build a house with it or breed with it, it's not real.
Collin Klein: I guess I I could see how ninety nine percent of it is fake, but it does seem that there is a utility in like you said con in clearing contracts very quickly at a global scale.
E.M. Burlingame: Well, that's what I started with. No, hang on a second. That's what I started with, right? So the mechanics of it, the mechanical system, the functionality of it is absolutely essential. It is what where we have to go. We have to disintermediate because we were at the place where it was costing us twenty, thirty percent overall combined to get tran you know, real transactions done. And that's too high because the marginal, you know, the marginal growth, you know, the margins are so low in today's world.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm. Okay.
E.M. Burlingame: And have been for 40, 60 years, really, that we can't afford to spend anything above less than 1% on transactions. We can't. Even the big transactions. So when you know, so all this disintermediation has to happen. I've written about that decades ago, or I didn't write on it. I argued on it and all that kind of stuff, right? So on the functional utility, yes. Does it give us productivity? No. What it does is it lows that lowers friction and it lowers transaction cost. And that's an absolute those are both absolute positives. The problem is, is that on the other side, it is locking in tens of trilli in the transition to it, it's locking in tens of trillions of dollars of wealth that's been stolen that will never be recovered unless we crash that whole digital system. Now that doesn't mean we clash all blockchain, et cetera, but unless we just crash blockchain or Bitcoin, which we're not gonna be able to do because you got these Bitcoin maxis who have billions of dollars in Bitcoin, they're not gonna crash it. Right.
Collin Klein: And a lot of it's gone into the ether, so it's not even Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Well, that's exactly the point, right? So what's hap what you know and there's other, you know, other other currency, cryptocurrencies and there's other assets and there's other, you know, other contracts I should say, et cetera. Well, but what is that? That is what happens is that when the old financial currency system collapses in the transition to the new currency financial system, they lock in the theft from the previous system. And you never get that wealth back and it's now just completely nothing but numbers in a ledger. It has no reality whatsoever. And it doesn't matter if the fucking ledger's digital and trades it, you know, billions of times a second. It doesn't make it real.
Corey: Is this something that's kind of connected to when countries decide to restart their money and they go from their old currency to a new currency and that old currency gets gets devalued, but the new currency doesn't rise above that much higher than the old currency.
E.M. Burlingame: Mm-hmm! yeah it's Well that that's true that so give me one second. I don't know exactly that that's the case. People who have acquired assets in the old denominated in the old currencies retained those assets at the values that those currencies held numerically. locking in and then you transition to an new financial system in which those people have an unfair advantage right from the beginning because there's some conversion ratio from the old system to the new system. They aren't the only ones that have anything that converts. Everything else has been stolen. Right? And so the the the issue is that every sixty years, every eighty years, somewhere between forty and eighty years,
Corey: Mm.
E.M. Burlingame: The law the theft of the previous forty to eighty years has to get locked in by the tr through the transition to a new system. you know, a new ledger for all and you for the simplif simplest way of saying it, and now the ledger is digital. But you have to collapse the old system by demonetizing it away to nothing and and encumbering it through debt to levels it can never repay. And then that brings about and then that causes enough hardship and enough disparity that then it justifies the ushering in of a new system. But what does that new system do? It set resets the clock for the people at the bottom, but it just locks in Theft for all the people at the top. And now they've got vast fortunes of made-believe money in trust accounts, tied to nothing but just accounts on accounts that on securities, on on whatever. Right? And they bought up bonds. Most of it's historically it's been a lot of bonds, right?
Corey: So it's connected to bonds, so that's still intangible, but yeah, a little bit more tangible because you can take that bond and trade it in for
E.M. Burlingame: Well, most of these bonds, yeah, great, terribly sorry. I mean most of these bonds, I I meant to clarify something. Most of these bonds are tied to actual underlying revenue generating assets, such as utilities. That's why they're rushing so hard to get all of this data centers built and get all this AI stuff up and get all that, because they're trying to turn that into a new utility that then regulated through its usage, it also regulates power.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: ca communications technology you know, communicate connectivity and water. Right. Because all three of those are it the the Data, you know, the computational resources dependent on those three other resources and you compile those together and the and the control, the hydraulic despotism through the comput you know, your access to the computational field if you want to earn a living. If you want to have, you know, if you want to grow some wealth and some money and some status in the new system, you have to work with the LLMs and you have to pay them. I've been finding that out the last five days. Extraordinary capable, like I've I've gotten more work done in five days than I could have got done in a year, and I did it at one one-hundredth of the cost. But I also have forty years of experience and anybody and I have two versions of the of the two accounts, two separate accounts that I'm paying for of the of anthropic of Claude, and I'm using Claude code to do the coding, but I have to have a separate Claude instance that I'm paying into to do the strata the coding strategy and to check the work of the coding. And if I try to just do it through Claude code, I'd pff I wouldn't have got much of anything done. And then It tells you little things in subtle ways. so this, this, and this between the two of them. But the cost, right, is just steadily climbing up. But the point is, is this, it's still a one hundredth, one one hundredth of what I would have spent. And it's taken me one one hundredth of the time. Right? So that's immensely valuable. I I'm gonna launch a product here in the market probably this week. I forgot what day it is, Tuesday, right?
Corey: Mm-hmm.
Collin Klein: Yeah, been wait do you wanna talk about that briefly? I've been looking forward to that. It's a new AI model, right?
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, so that's yeah, so it's Archangel. I fed first off, I didn't realize how much I write. I wake up every day and I just write. It's just I've been doing it for decades. I mean I not like this. Now I just write all the time. And I the last couple of days, because we couldn't figure out, no matter how smart this stuff is, we couldn't figure out a botch a batch import that worked consistently. So I wound up having yesterday manually, over the last several days, manually to put things in. I had to put in almost over 200 some on, almost 300 pieces of of work that I've done writing. but I've been training in LLM on that and then writing the guardrails, the layer for it, so that it it doesn't do the wokus biasing and and liberal arts biasing is what I really should say, right? So East Coast liberal arts biasing or coastal liberal arts biasing, but it'll launch here. I've been testing it. I got it out to five guys that I really trust their minds and they're beating it up. But so far it looks pretty stable, pretty good. give me one second. It's very much it very much does get into how I think how I actually process information. And it does feed that up pretty well. I'm pretty impressed. So that people can use it and and query it unlike a normal kind of system. It also has all the different works. The l the fictional stuff is a little harder to deal with. I'm figuring that out. Stuff I didn't underst didn't know about till today. or yesterday. Actually this morning. give me a second. What I'm going to launch from here, now that that launches next week, and people have been my subscribers, paid subscribers on Substack and X, they're gonna I'm gonna grandfather them in to Archangel for six months where their subscriptions pay, even though the Archangel cost is a little bit higher, out of gratitude. And then there's training programs, and I'm gonna start developing content and training programs to help people think, you know, cut through all these lies and illusions and answer some of these questions themselves. by having a place they can go and put prompts in and not get back the biased, you know, historically inaccurate responses.
Corey: Okay, I get that. Yeah, 'cause I have both Grok and Chat GPT. Started out with ChatGPT to do a lot of writing and all that kind of stuff, building material, and then got into Grok about a year or so ago. And it takes a tremendous amount of time and effort and then shrinks it down and the
Collin Klein: Well thank you for doing that.
Corey: the results are just tremendous 'cause I can do a whole lot of stuff that would take me weeks. Which is incredible. Yet there is a lot of bias in their system that's built in, especially Chat G P T is very biased and yeah it'd be very
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, but it's the and it's the least biased of all of them. Yeah. Yeah, it's the least. Chat GPT is by far the worst. That's like talking to Bill Gates at a cocktail party. that you didn't want to be at. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, no, go ahead, go ahead.
Corey: man. Yeah.
Collin Klein: Do you have a go ahead, finish your I have a so I wanted to I've been trying to put words to this because it's just been an idea I've been trying to understand. So in a world where everything's already been stolen, pretty much, like I mean, beyond I guess holding on to some hard assets that they can't easily confiscate, even though they can, but you know, it's a little tougher. It seems to me it's like, okay, how much more can they steal? And then it's like how do you play a game like that without there being a global consensus where this is the game that we're gonna play at this level and then we'll hand down the scraps to the like if there's any other faction that's a pure competitor, then you've got a what's the word? Not a litmus, well kind of. You got something to compare the scam system to. If you start a competition of sc of competing scam systems, the truth seems to metaphysically arise. Wouldn't you agree with that? Or or what I'm basically asking, have they just agreed globally that this is what they're all going to do? The families in China, the you know, r all over. Okay.
E.M. Burlingame: It doesn't work that way. Yeah, it doesn't work. Okay, so this one is a black cat. That one's gray, but this is at all. yeah, it doesn't work that way exactly. It's it's you know, it's not some I I gave a speech here recently, Sport of Kings versus the Great Game. It's not so much that, you know, they strategize out all this 'cause that doesn't work, it's that they're oriented to enslave and they enjoy it. That's all it takes. That's all it takes, and it only takes a certain percentage of the population and a certain complexity of of systems that they they are inside and helped build. That's all it takes. It doesn't take some grand, plotted out, Eisenhower-like conspiracy. Right? That's ludicrous for us to think that way. Just and if you want an example. I don't know about you guys, but just go to a party where there's a where there's a girl who's really upset and she wants to just fuck with everybody and she you'll watch her and she'll get other people at the party. She'll get other people, you know, male and female, and she'll get them aligned. And pretty soon you've got a knockdown, drag out fight at the party. There wasn't some grand conspiracy, it was just little shitty fucking people who figured out how to collaborate at that p time and that place to bring about what they wanted.
Collin Klein: So this I agree with that that point and I really like how you how you look at humans more at like linguistic monkey thing where it's not so much you can't you can't hyp you yeah, it's too complicated of a system to to to plan all this out to the letter. That's it it doesn't I agree it doesn't work that way. But when you're talking about a mechanistic system where we gotta agree on what these contracts represent. at a global level in order for people to partake in that said system, unless there's a competing system that comes into play. But I'm basically asking, do you see that there may be competing systems
E.M. Burlingame: It's not the system. See, systems don't matter. It's the enforcement. It's how is the system enforced? And they control the enforcement. The system's fine. The system's fine. The system that we have is actually really rather extraordinary. And I grew up believing very much what you're articulating. The system was flawed, it's broken, it's crap, it's garbage. So my mother taught me, right? Despise the three B's, businessmen, bankers, and bureaucrats, right?
Collin Klein: What about trust? Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: And she wasn't completely wrong. She was right about them. She was wrong about the overall system. The system's extraordinary are we Dolby Chattle's slaves are dead.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Right. What's wrong what we've allowed, however, is like I write about in the book The Eternal Wars, we've allowed resentfuls, those driven by envy, to rise up into positions of influence on the enforcement side of things everywhere at every level. And they skew the system to them quite illegally and quite against the rules of the system itself. But they get away with it. Why? Because they control the enforcement.
Corey: Mm.
Collin Klein: I it again I agree with the the so here's an example. So you got the C B D Cs of Europe that they're trying to run that central like basically a which it's it's not gonna work, I agree, but it's but that ostensibly is what they're trying to push forward. Meanwhile the Americans are looks it looks like for the layman that we're trying to basically rein like
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, it won't work. No.
Collin Klein: back all this with like actual hard commodities and assets that are where where we get real price discovery again.
E.M. Burlingame: Well, right now what they're Well, we'll see. I I'm not as sanguine as my friend Tom is. Now he's more knowledgeable as the plumbing, so I will give him that, right? And I have immense respect for him. I'm not as sanguine as he is about stable coins because the issuance of a dollar of debt in the United States being underwritten by a dollar of debt in the federal government is just another debt Ponzi scheme with just more steps. Now maybe there's some you know, guardra you know, and I don't see any guardrails, but What I am seeing right now is not actually a move to a hard commodity backed sovereign wealth fund, which is what we need to have. I'm not seeing that. What I'm seeing is this attempt to roll over to a new debt system. It's just digital and faster and has less friction and less transaction cost. But if our currency system is based off of federal debt, so Every dollar of private debt issued has to have a dollar of federal debt. That's just a double ledger Ponzi scheme. And it will run for probably twenty years at this point because once you go digital, everything you know, everything's accelerating every anyways, right? As ledger ledgers become more digital, et cetera. So once you remove friction and once you remove, you know, transaction costs and the thing and you know the the delay of lawyers talking to lawyers, which I used to despise because it slowed everything down. And now as I'm older I realize, holy shit, that's what keeps us from burning down is asshole lawyers being talking with asshole lawyers. And each one battling over a clause or a term of a sentence. Yeah, it slows all the deals down, but what winds up happening is guys like me, who were an analyst, that gave me the time to find, we don't want to do this deal anyways, because I finally found where the fraud is. Right? So speeding things up and putting them on the rails, etc., which honestly the common man and average man and even great people won't have access to, anyways, only accelerates the problems. So
Corey: Mm.
E.M. Burlingame: The system we have pre nineteen seventy one, if we automate that and go back to it, is a pretty damn good system. That system was come across you know, across centuries of trial and error and proof, et cetera, it was backed by gold. Now we don't necessarily need to back it solely by gold. It could be a b portfolio of commodities. And those commodities can fluctuate depending on what the market is doing because of demand, actual demand, not made up fucking speculative demand, but actual industrial demand, right? And projected, honestly projected industrial demand, not artificially projected because we know we're going to start a war somewhere
Corey: Mm.
E.M. Burlingame: Five years, right? Which has been creating a lot of the demand curve or the projection of the demand curve. So, you know, a debt-based system of at the core, any debt-based system is an enslaving system. It's just a more sophisticated version of what we've been living since early 1970s. But What we had up until seventy one, minus all the fraud and all the corruption and all the other crap that was going on, was a very solid system that much of the rest of the world still runs on, particularly Russia and China. Right? And where did they learn that system from or or who did they co develop that system with over centuries? The United States. And to be quite frank, where did we get it? Where did the seeds for it and the genesis for it? And the initial concepts and ideas the pre sixteen eighty eight England.
Collin Klein: It it that's it kind of seems to me that that triumvirant, the Russians and Chinas and the the industrial superpowers, relatively speaking, of the world would be the ones to hold trust over the pricing mechanisms of commodity flows because they need stuff to get from point A to point B to make other stuff. More so than and together all three of kind of keeping eyes on each other. And then maybe outflow the contract clearing technology to the United States since we're kind of, you know, relat I mean, 'cause you do need
E.M. Burlingame: No, they need to each do it them they need to do it themselves. This is part of the problem. We we moved to these like DT these clearing and settlement companies that really are just city of London writ large, right? Metastasized. Each so the sofa system in the United States is exactly what needed to happen. And because we have to realize that the United States is the size of a continent.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if we wanted to we could run the whole c like half of the planet easily.
E.M. Burlingame: Right. We have Well it's not that. It's that we don't need the rest of the world at all for anything. At all. Not for energy, not for base materials, not nothing. We don't need the rest of the world at all everything. And we are defensible. Right? Now we're gonna have to deal with Canada.
Corey: That's right. Yeah. We have our own food supplies too. Yeah. Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Before they flood too many foreigner enemies and their future enemies, et cetera, current and future enemies. But point is that we the United States have a vast internal market if we turned it back on and developed it properly. We didn't become the wealthiest nation on earth, the most powerful nation on earth through globalization. That fucked it up. We became the wealthiest nation on earth by integrating our internal markets at all the levels, right? Well, Russia's the same. Russia has absolutely everything it needs, it doesn't need anything from anybody else. China's exactly the same excepting one thing. China doesn't have the raw inputs. However, the Pacific region does, and the difference is that China's willing to pay a fair market price if it has to.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Right. So three powerful internal markets. So for here in the United States, where we have regional pricing within the United States is what has to happen because the price of something in Ohio, you know, in the Midwest right now versus something in the southeast or the northwest is fundamentally different depending on what's going on region, you know, internal, intra regionally in the United States, and that dynamic and the growth and the focus there.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Ensuring we don't have externalities that are you know adversely impacting us, then creates of us something dynamic that we can interface with the rest of the world with. Right? And Russia's internal doing the same, internals, and China, which is a vast you know, composite of different regions and areas and capabilities. give me a second.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: The dynamism of those internal markets is what makes the stability, strength, growth, wealth creation, you know, broader distributed wealth creation, et cetera, that then we interface with the rest of the world at. So we're doing internal price discovery, real price discovery through internal markets, focusing on internal markets. And that then, as a group, as a collective, allows us to interface with other major parties, you know, players. Particularly Russia and China right now, hopefully others get it worked out, that they're doing their own internal price discovery through their own dynamic internal economies, that then there's an interface between us because there is some marginal overlap. But Russia doesn't need fuck all from nobody. We don't need fuck all from nobody. And China, if it does, you know, when they're left alone to do what they need to do, they don't really need fuck all from anybody. And what they do need, they'll pay for it. They don't care because they have internally a dynamic enough economy and there enough competition. Now, of course, under G they've been dealing with a whole lot of fraud because there was vast fraud there, but who set that up? That was the city of London and Wall Street. And I was there.
Corey: So it seems like the globalists need to have this pushed out instead of being internal, they need it to be external. And I'm seeing that here in New Mexico where we have oil. Oil fields they keep shutting them down and not open up new leases, and they also won't allow the manufacturing of oil. And so if we did that
E.M. Burlingame: Correct. Correct.
Corey: we would actually be a very rich state plus all the minerals and everything else that we have, we would excel and also drive down the prices of the goods here, yet also will have impacts across the the continent. I see that and I see this juxta opposed position. I don't think these people really understand what level they are being played at.
E.M. Burlingame: Yes. But mm-hmm.
Corey: 'cause they're being plain at to that they need to have the global and get all these things from everywhere else because it's better for our environment, all that kind of stuff. But yet they really don't know what harms that does for the continent of the United States.
E.M. Burlingame: Well Well, you you're absolutely right. So I I just one little refinement. when you have a dynamic internal market, you are creating enough capital, jet real capital, asset backed, revenue gen real revenue based, non financialized capital that you can finance yourself.
Corey: Okay. Yes, sir.
E.M. Burlingame: And then you don't need the foreign banks and you don't need the foreign capital and you don't have to pay for the you know the VIG on on debt. You don't have to be beholden to some foreign power that won't might or might not give you a a loan or give you the cap you know the capex in investiture that investment that you need unless you do things the way that they want to, et cetera. So you remove their controls, you remove a bleed off of the growth of the capital going external that's Not going back to work inside, et cetera. So when you have an internally dynamic economy, and each one of the states in the United States initially were conceived as that, as their own independent, thriving, you know, that they would have their own internal struggles, their own internal market, you know, pricing, right? Price discovery, and you know, innovation development discovery, productivity discovery. And the states would be doing that internally. And the government the federal government would just regulate between them to make sure that, you know, they weren't doing unfair stuff or criminal stuff between each other. And that internal con you know, competition between the states was the dynamic engine that that drove this country until the Civil War, when that was crushed, and the federal government became the power. And increase you know, then increase that. And that's when we started to see these multi state, you know, you used to see, you know, oligarchs within a state, right? Like the wealthiest old family, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and the state. But b after the civil war you started to see oligarchs that were oligarchs across a good n whole lot of states, or all the states, or even not just the states, but across the globe. Right?
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: So when you have, you know, think Mandelbrot, you know, the fractals, fractal mathematics, Mandelbrot sets. What was supposed to happen is you're supposed to have dynamic internal price discovery, productivity discovery, production discovery in communities, in states, and then inter, you know, intra and then inter, and then the sum of that dynamism and healthiness.
Corey: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: You know, working all of itself out in complexity, if there was excess, or there was, you know, on in terms of excess capital, excess productivity, or excess need in terms of capital or inputs, et cetera, then we would look abroad, outside the state first, and then outside the country. But all of that increasingly was done away with. And I've been reading, not reading, but hearing some rather interesting things here just recently about. the Civil War that really puts it in a different context for me. Really puts it in a fundamental different context. That right? That the that what the Civil War was really about, if it if the South could have done it, was to break the United States up. That was one thing. But that's not what the Southern states were fighting over. What the Southern states were fighting over was actually what was constitutional, and that was states' rights.
Collin Klein: Me too. I wanna hear what you've been read what have you found. Yes.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Because those were being eroded and taken away. And when I look at it in that context, not in terms of succession and slavery and all this other bullshit that people say, right? But when I look at it in terms of was the Civil War the first real constitutional fight in the United States? And did we lose that constitutional fight? I can't help but say yes and yes.
Corey: Hm.
E.M. Burlingame: We lost states' rights. We lost that internal dynamism and that internal, you know, competition with you know, elite competition within states in the Civil War. And since then the constitutionality, you know, the fundamental constitutionality, which is a federated republic, that's what the constitution's really about, went away and power went to the federal government, and we s decreasingly we've decreasingly seen intrastate, you know, so within a state competitiveness ever since.
Collin Klein: It seemed to me that they had a bunch of backup plans for it. One was, well, we'll kick this thing off by supplying arms to the South while the North is or the Federals are trying to, you know, supersede their states' rights, which a hundred percent that's that absolutely happened. I also suspect that Lincoln understood that this was a play by the city of London to kick off a a proxy war to break up the that they weren't gonna have states' rights anyway. Like
Cody: Yeah.
Collin Klein: it wasn't gonna work 'cause one, the s I don't think the South had developed enough of an industry base to be at that. It would have eventually, but that's still it takes a while to spin that up. And then the back the backstop is Canada setting up a trade union with the north and then providing trade routes to European and Asian markets.
E.M. Burlingame: So it had it. Yeah, so I personally am more and more not in Lincoln's camp. I think maybe more and more and now I don't know this exact. I'm not a Hamiltonian. I'm not a fan of Hamilton at all. I think Hamilton was a straight up backdoor, passive aggressive way to reoccupy us by the British. straight up. I think Burr probably killed him for a reason. and of course that's flipped the other way.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm. I go back and forth on it. I can't decide.
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, so I don't know, I wasn't there, right? But more and more I'm just like something's not right with Hamilton, particularly the mythology around him, which you don't see that kind of mythology unless they're trying to right. You don't see that mythalization. Right. And then the other one is more and more I look at it, I'm thinking, maybe Lincoln was the bad guy.
Collin Klein: Yeah. Very true. Yeah.
Corey: Mm.
Collin Klein: I I almost wonder if he was just trapped and had to and there was just no good options. It was like 'cause if he did one thing or another like what would you what would he have done? Like honestly, I'm not sure.
E.M. Burlingame: Why do why'd they okay, so let's say it this way, right? If we look at who the bad guys run and put into office, it's usually people who failed a whole lot before. And then they make a deal, and then they get into power because they made the deal. And then they have a role to play. But they, you know, that's a pattern that's played out over and over and over again for centuries all over the British Empire, right? And elsewhere, Rome used to do this, right?
Cody: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: So I don't know, and again, I don't know. I'm not here to readjudicate history, what's been done is done. But what I do know is that world the Civil War, for all intents and purposes, ended states' rights. And our entire system is based off of states' rights and intrastate competition, you know, independence that then leads to intrastate competition that leads to growth. innovation and all of that, that then within the confines of Republican system, you know, r a federated republic, then has interstate competition within the republic that keeps it all dynamic. That then also helps prevent this type of in outside influence from coming in and disrupting everything because you can't it's much you can, but it is much harder to disrupt a dynamic system.
Collin Klein: Well but it would require a border enforced by a like because what's to stop them from well what's to stop them the financialists from picking them off one by one? Those are cheap dates, you know, for them.
E.M. Burlingame: Yes, but that's a separate that's a separate issue. Mm-hmm. No, no, no. Well, again, though, constitutionally, the federal government has the responsibility for protecting the state United States borders, and each state has a responsibility protecting their own borders. That's why the militias. So, you know, borders are assumed and even enumerated in both the federal con federated constitution and in most of the state's constitutions, if not all of the state's constitutions. Again, though, who enforces that?
Cody: you
E.M. Burlingame: And who's in control of enforcement? So our system, we and this is why I wrote the book, This Our Restoration, and why I've been putting a lot of thought on that. I just wrote the published the latest one, The Sovereign Mind. What our ancestors built is absolutely extraordinary, all the way back over twelve hundred years. And the reason it works it in the English world, right, the English speaking world, what we call the Anglosphere, But you know, what works in the in the Anglo world is that we've gone through upheavals before, numerous upheavals, but we've never gone to revolution, revolution. And Americans can say the American Revolution, we didn't have a revolution, we had a restoration. Read the founding fathers' works in their own words. They were restoring. They were not revolting, they were not re revolution, they were restoring. What had been adjudicated by our people for 800 years at that point. 800 years. And they say it in their own words. Before, during, and after the civil war that we call the revolution. They were restoring, and that's what we have to do. So much of what our ancestors developed and built is so incredibly solid. It's so powerful. Yes, there's gaps in it. Yes, we need to update some of the stuff. Yes, we need to improve some language. Yes, we need to reverse the nineteenth. Yes, we need to fix the fourteenth, right? we need to probably make the second if you touch our guns we'll fucking kill you, make that clear, right? Something is fucking s 'cause shall not be infringed is not being understood. So, you know, i if you take their guns, they have the right to kill you. We'll just make that the con the constitutional rewrite, right? anyways, point is is that yes
Cody: Hmm?
Collin Klein: Yeah.
Cody: Yeah.
Corey: Especially here in New Mexico.
E.M. Burlingame: Every every period you know, there are these periodic upheavals and period of time where everything gets corrupted because the resentfuls are never not trying to control us through the institutions of enforcement. But we need to restore, not revolt, and some of the back to the earlier part, some of the technological tools that are being built are going are giving us the capacities to do a more strong, more capable restoration where we can code things in hard contracts, you know, digital contracts that are immutable, that are transparent, that are immediately that are disintermediated, so we're not getting intermediaries who are forcing a tr interpretation or translation or taking a piece off of it, etcetera.
Collin Klein: Wouldn't have in a trustworthy system that would be backed by the the full faith and credit of the American system, which is, as far as I can tell, the American citizen because of our ability to self organize and the entrepreneurial and all the blah blah blah, all the ha you know, the nice, wonderful things about us. but it is kind of it isn't. No, it's true. I've traveled all over the world and there's nothing like us. We're very robust. Like we can
E.M. Burlingame: Don't diminish that. Don't don't diminish it, man. You were right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. And retarded at the same time. We are robustly retarded.
Collin Klein: And and retarded at the same time.
Cody: You
Collin Klein: Ha do you watch have you been watching what they've been doing to the US debt clock?
E.M. Burlingame: No, I don't watch these things.
Collin Klein: It's can I just show you something real quick here? It's maybe, I don't know. they've been adding a few items onto this. Like, yeah, yeah, it's all probably be whatever. It doesn't matter. The point is is like like they're they're doing all this fr they've they've restructured the way that people used to watch this thing.
E.M. Burlingame: Do I need my glasses? I need my glasses.
Collin Klein: Like they're they're trying to communicate how much value each citizen has to the output of the country. This is the big one down here. They're starting to add all the assets, all the real assets, and starting to you to basically saying, Hey, this is our sovereign wealth reserve and this is the collateral that we're backing the
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, they're Yeah, well they're getting a hold of the collateral as collateral assets. Yeah. Yeah.
Collin Klein: Right. They're they're and then here's the big one, right? You know, total cartel asset forfeiture liability, twenty three trillion dollars.
E.M. Burlingame: Well, that's gonna impoverish a whole lot of billionaires. The real the the real problem that you know, one of the real problem forgive me, not the real problem. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. That's not the case. One of the things that are gonna that is gonna have to happen, and I've been saying this for twenty six, twenty seven years, is we are going to have t so I wanna put a pin in, come back to this, right? But we are going to have to end monopolies again.
Collin Klein: Right.
E.M. Burlingame: And this means a whole lot of billionaires and cent to millionaires aren't gonna be billionaires and cent to millionaires again because their wealth is built off monopolies that need to go away. That's one thing, right? And this is ancient English. This goes all the way back to the beginning, right? Monopolies are very verbotent to us, right? I know I use the German term, but it's the proper one. And hell, we're Germanic, anyways. give me a second. Just not those kinds of Germans.
Cody: Yeah.
Corey: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: At the same time, okay, to something else you said, and this is something that's been in my thoughts for quite some time, as I begrudgingly come to respect some businessmen, some bankers, fuck the bureaucrats. but you know, one of the B's I just can't come to peace with. But point I'm getting at is that in the world that we live in, you do have to have some ludicrously wealthy people.
Cody: Yeah, amen.
E.M. Burlingame: But they have to be talented. They have to have come to that wealth not through monopoly, but through actual no shit capability. And I'll give you an example, even though there's somewhat of some monopoly there, but he earned it, and that's Elon Musk. And there's a lot of others. So I don't want to say that all the billionaires are just monopolists, etc. There are a good number of them that made that. However, a good number of that wealth was made in systems that were fraud, you know, they were made up bullshit systems anyways. Like
Cody: Yeah, okay.
E.M. Burlingame: There should not be a single billionaire financier. You're a fucking middleman, and you should take a small piece for doing something that really works, not make billions of dollars for ripping people off, for stealing from shit, or figuring out how to hide fucking stolen money. You shouldn't be making, you know, anyways, okay. Point I'm getting at though is that you do have to have very wealthy people. You are always going to have dramatic wealth disparity for two reasons.
Cody: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: We're not all equally capable. That's first off. The second thing is that you need people of genuine capacities to be very wealthy to fight other very wealthy people, both in the United States and in the world. Because otherwise you're going to wind up with people who create compl exactly what we have, completely made up financial systems with completely made up wealth, who then can afford armies and NGOs and everything else to wage war against you. So you're always gonna have to have princes who have the wealth and capacity of princes and fight the sport you know, who fight in the sport of kings. So terribly sorry.
Collin Klein: What real Yep.
Cody: I a question though. What about the age old argument that they always
E.M. Burlingame: The what?
Collin Klein: C eat the mic.
Cody: what about the art what about the age old argument that they always talk about like linkin got killed before he could implement the plan that he had supposed perfect plan that's always
E.M. Burlingame: Lincoln got killed before he gave up the beans, probably, before he gave up for right, that's what they do. They get their guy in there, and then before that guy, which happens, especially after a whole you know, almost a million people. Well, almost a million people in uniform, and I don't remember what the number is, two million people died, right? What happens when men tend to get old is no matter who they are, they tend to get a conscience. And guess what happens? They tend to get offed before they get a conscience.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: That's also historically accurate.
Cody: I just. Very true,
Corey: I never thought about that way.
E.M. Burlingame: That's to prevent them from speaking on their conscience, right? Deathbed or before. And more importantly, it's a warning to the one coming up behind. You fucking talk, we'll off you. I don't care if you are the president of the United States.
Corey: Mm-hmm. No one's untouchable.
E.M. Burlingame: Especially not when your security's owned, you know, your security's not owned by you.
Cody: Yeah.
Collin Klein: real quick, sidebar, I've always wanted to ask you this. I'm glad you brought it up. Elon, so when I was a kid, I was kind of nerdy into military stuff, you know, young boy stuff. And I was looking at okay, what's at the cutting edge? And I was, you know, found out about DARPA and I'm looking at all the stuff DARPA's building, and I'm like, Okay, underground tunneling, self driving robot cars. I'm sure they had something to do with sp look, it's Basically everything Elon has done seems like it was stuff that DARPA was doing back when I was a kid, trying to get so he always to me just seemed like a steward front Yeah. Okay. Like he
E.M. Burlingame: Comes out of DARPA. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. But you still have to be ludicrously capable to do all of that. To even do one of them. Right? That that's the thing. Just because you're a made man, right? You don't get made a made man if you're not extraordinarily capable. You're still a made man, but you've proven yourself capacity wise all along the way. That's the difference between the ones that are given it and they run the fucker into the ground. Right?
Collin Klein: Of of course. Yeah.
Cody: Okay. Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Jeff Bezos' grandfather co founded DARPA.
Collin Klein: I didn't know that. Wow.
Cody: Really? Wow.
E.M. Burlingame: And he went he was s he was hand delivered into private equity, so he understood all the finance stuff and then he went out and did Amazon. Right. So again, you know, give me a second. It is not, you know, DARPA is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it's a pretty damn good thing. Again, so back to you know, tying it back, right? Two sides to all of these things. There is usually a genuinely a positive good side to things, and then there's how they're used by some people at some times. And that can be very bad.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Now back to the you know the capacities. This panopticon, right, this persistent surveillance state doesn't work. It's not thermodynamically possible. You cannot, on a on a straight up physics level, you cannot track all of these things through computations because it takes a a a billion, a a trillion, you know, a quadrillion computations more than the thing itself, just to try and model the thing. On a heat conversion alone, meaning using s you know hardware to do binary processing of information, more heat is produced by that to just try and track and monitor one person than the planet can bear. Now try that for eight and a half billion people. That's why they're not trying to get the numbers down, by the way, because they are trying to get it down to some thermodynamically stable and viable number that they can deal with. Right? But What they're trying to do is they're trying to convince us that they can do these things. And again, if they're making a hundred trillion a year, they'll put thirty trillion a year into the illusion of this total persistent cape, you know, this total panopticon. And the very word itself, what is a panopticon? It is a prison in which the prisoners regulate and govern themselves because they're afraid they're being watched. Now I gotta give it to Whitney Whip or whoever did that.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: What I call it is the Panopticon con, right? Let's carry it on. It is not thermodynamic. Just again, people, just do the math. Literally, just get on Grok and do the math. It is not physics, according to the laws of physics that we know them. It is not possible to do the surveillance state. It is possible to fake it.
Corey: So you fake it so that those that are within the system, they hold the the illusion and therefore you actually have a higher capacity of doing the outcome that you want versus
E.M. Burlingame: Exactly. And if you need to move against somebody, you can say, Well, we have all this data on When you don't have jack shit, you just wanted to move against them because you needed to.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
Collin Klein: Right. And that that'll certainly happen, but the but they don't have to monitor everyone all the time. They just need to watch for certain select signals.
E.M. Burlingame: No, I'm sorry, man. It's just it's it it is not possible. You cannot watch all these things. Again, it is just on a physics basis. What people have to under it doesn't matter. You still have to compute, you still have to capture the information. You have to process the inf you have to transmit the information. You have to store the information. All of that takes compute. All of it takes compute power. Then you have to store it. Then you have to sort it. You have to, you know, organize it, structure it.
Collin Klein: I'm just talking about spreadsheets like a balance sheet. Like a
E.M. Burlingame: Then you have to sort through the s the data itself to look for certain signals, et cetera. Then you have to raise those up to a level of awareness. It's a further all of that takes computational resources, all of which generates heat. All of it. And which approaches, right? It's called NP hard problems. I would have a I would highly recommend you look up an NP hard problem. Okay? It's not like there's a Hamiltonian through this, which is another term you should look up.
Collin Klein: Yeah.
Cody: Okay.
E.M. Burlingame: And it's interesting they use Hamilton, by the way, right? But it's not like there's a Hamiltonian path through this. As you increase, each, you know, each bit of data that you add adds X amount more times more heat requirements, right? As it has to get reprocessed and combined with other things, et cetera. And it doesn't reduce the amount of bytes as it goes up, it actually increases.
Collin Klein: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: So what happens is you're you rapidly approach what's called an MP MP hard problem, which is meaning essentially a non-computational space where you get to a space where you can't actually compete compute it. One, because of computational resources and storage resources, et cetera, and read and write. Just reading and writing from from hard drives, by the way, creates more heat than people can even begin to imagine. Right, just reading and writing, not even competing computing it, just moving it, right? And changing the values of it. So it gets to an NP hard problem, both in terms of what you can you know, the amount of information you can process as per the amount of information that's coming in and that's created by the processing itself, and you run into a heat MP hard problem where you just can't put off any more heat. So what is tr what is Elon recently, because I said, you know. Maybe the only option is to put it into space. Problem is it doesn't work in space either, because there isn't enough volume of material in space to pull the heat out of the computational unit. You would have to create wafer thin things that distribute the heat all over, and you won't, you can't. So again, why is Voyager way the hell out there not frozen solid right now and and hasn't burned up?
Corey: Mm.
E.M. Burlingame: Because it generates just a little bit of heat, you know, generates heat from the the reactor in it, burning the fuel, and that creates just enough surface heat to keep the thing from from freezing. Now imagine
Collin Klein: Do you think it's actually still flying by the way? You y you do? Okay, cool.
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We we get signals periodically from it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Cody: yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: yeah, yeah. And it's it's I don't remember exactly the half life on the I don't remember if it's plutonium or whatever it is, it's got about an eighty year life. And we're what forty forty years into it now. So it it's it's fine. It it has to shut down systems. It's just like a body, right? You have to shut down extend exterior systems to get down to the core. you know, values, et cetera, but it's still out there. Haven't you seen Star Trek? It comes back, man. It it comes back as a weapon.
Cody: Yeah, I mean, come on.
Collin Klein: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Cody: tries to kill us all.
Collin Klein: I forgot that one.
E.M. Burlingame: That's what's on that disc. That's really what's on that disc. It isn't all this nice happy shit. It's It's like Voyager, get outside the orc cloud and turn yourself into a weapon. Yeah.
Corey: There you go. Huh, I never thought about that.
Collin Klein: Go talk to God for us for a minute, you know.
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah.
Collin Klein: well, look the so th just to be clear, there are so this is what I wanted to ask you. I don't know what capabilities these people have at their fingertips. Now you worked in targeting, meaning there is some ability for them to s you know, do some research into people's finances to go and look to where, you know, where things are maybe stashed away or where they can get hurt or connections networks, you know, all that kind of thing. So there is some capacity for that. And these data centers, I would be surprised if they're just giant blocks that don't do anything except suck a bunch of power. They've got to be doing something, right?
E.M. Burlingame: Do they? If I'm faking a thing, so all it needs to do is it all it needs to do is take in power and cost a whole bunch of money every year to maintain because there's all these fancy computers in there doing all this fancy computing. But they don't have to be computing a damn thing as long as people believe it. That's what I get back to the cr to b you know, Bitcoin.
Collin Klein: It's a black box, that's the problem. I don't know. Right.
E.M. Burlingame: Because people have believed in this illusion of a thing. Right? We're linguistic monkeys. And it's really easy to fool aut autist. You just throw some words in there and some math formulas and a little WYSIWYG and and you help make a little money and maybe they can buy a Rolex or a j or a Lamborghini and maybe sleep with a prostitute once or while once or twice, and now you got the autist locked in.
Collin Klein: Yeah. Yeah. It
E.M. Burlingame: And they can b they could believe it because look at what that did in their own life.
Collin Klein: Yeah. The
E.M. Burlingame: Right. So again, it's back to you know, where are we? We have not come any further than the Pharaoh a power system based off of the Pharaoh's ability to regulate the flow of the Nile. Well he he the n the narrow Pharaoh today has no more power to control that than he did then. But he's got just as much ability to fool us that he does. Now it's had to get more complex and sophisticated, the foolery, right, across all these dimensions, you know, for us to do it because the human animal is extraordinarily intelligent, right? And we see through shit. And we see through shit a lot faster now that we can all talk to each other, right? But just people have got to shift gears. 99% of what we think they can do, they can't. They can fake it.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: And they have every reason to fake it because that's where the what that's what the entire, the whole, and I want to put it in one more succinct way, very succinct way, and I think this conversation, because it helped me now this one's gonna stick, right? The US econom the US financial credibility is based off of our ability to fake an economy.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: It's based off of their b how good their ability is to fake it. Not just an economy, but fake everything. So and honestly, that's pretty much the way most people are. Except for Russia and except for China, but even there to a certain degree. Right? China actually has to make things at least and ship them and sell them. And there's a bunch of fake stuff shit there too. Russia has to actually extract minerals and resources and sell move them to somebody. and produce you know manufacture things for their own markets, etc. And most of that's real, but there's fakery there too. All we've been doing increasingly since Prohibition, with the exception of the World War Two period, is we've been faking it real real good. And the British Empire has been faking it real real good since sixteen eighty eight. We're going back to I hope going to a period of time to where we're not gonna be able to fake it anymore because the people won't accept it anymore.
Collin Klein: Well, we also don't have to. Like you said, we got plenty.
E.M. Burlingame: We don't have to. Yeah, well that's the thing, right? Okay, so the book The The Sovereign Mind, people really should read it. It's out now. give me a second. I lived in a teepee for two years when I was a kid, high up in the mountains. No floor, outhouse. It was a rough life, but it was a good life. ho horses, you know, animals, life, the outdoors. I was it was it was real, it was healthy. And while I had a very rough upbringing with my mother, when that wasn't crazy, life was really good. It was hard, it was hard work. But I had a whole lot more time available to me. I didn't I'd have to think about a fraction of the shit I'd have to think about every day now.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
Cody: you
E.M. Burlingame: I didn't have to run around all the time with a gun on me because peop you I'm getting death threats because of shit I say in social media, et cetera, and I'm pretty damn moderate. Right? So when we look back, you know, when we look back, people actually had it really good in the dark ages. They had it really good before industrialization. They worked on average about twenty-five hours a week and that depended on the season and the time of the season.
Corey: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: And they had a lot of time for leisure. That's why they were able to figure out all this complex shit that we have. Right? Why why were why is all the great scientific advances made in the sixteen hundreds? Well, 'cause those people had a lot of leisure time. They didn't have to go to the office nine to five and commute two hours each fucking way. Right.
Corey: That's
Cody: Yeah,
Corey: right. Yeah.
Cody: exactly. That makes sense.
E.M. Burlingame: So when we look at the world, are we better off? I mean, granted, I got three Jaguars. Two of are very old. I like a lot, but I I've I got an old Camry too. I'm just as happy with that. It's fourteen years old. I love the car. It's great. Runs great, looks good. Right? I got it, I hell, I got underwear at twenty years old. I got t shirts or twenty five years old. You know what I mean? I don't you don't need all this
Cody: Mm, that's
E.M. Burlingame: All this shit that they're selling you, this consumption and all this other kind of stuff, right? We don't need it to be happy. In fact, it takes away from happiness. The happiest people I've ever known genuinely, happiest people I've ever known in my life were all poor people.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
Cody: Yeah, I've noticed that too.
E.M. Burlingame: And that's some people who were cash poor. They had not they had old, you know, homes and they had, you know, had things that would sometime their family had money, et cetera, but they were cash poor. Maybe they had a
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: small, you know, inheritance, et cetera. But they were happy because everything was everything was okay. They had to be careful and reason responsible money and and things were never quite repaired fully and everything else, but they were happy. They had time to think about things and time to interface a lot of them, you know, a lot of time to interface with other people, with family, with friends, with community. Most of the happiest people I've ever met in my life, not these people chasing all this stuff, all this fake stuff, all this bullshit stuff, all this made up shit that takes us. You know, how much time a day do we spend? And I'm pointing at myself because this is what I do. But how much how many hours a day do we spend thinking about shit that isn't fucking real? That somebody made up for us to chase? Our ancestors didn't have to do that shit. How much time did they have available to live, to understand themselves, to understand others, to be sovereign? I can't be sovereign if I'm spending 80% of my time chasing illusions that might take me three years to figure out that was fucking that thing's all made up.
Cody: Yeah.
Corey: No?
E.M. Burlingame: That's where it come from, that motherfucker. Right?
Cody: Yeah, that makes sense,
Corey: Yeah. Hmm.
Collin Klein: Where where do you see the I mean this I mean if you're right, especially which I I I was trying to wrap my head around what you meant by the the law of thermodynamics. I figured you meant like the heat sink of computational systems. That and yes, it will grow exp the more complex it gets, the bigger it has to get to keep up, even if it theoretically could work, which by that logic it can't. So yeah. So
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, there's no flash point. Yeah.
Collin Klein: Begs the question, something's gotta give at some point. base but we're at but we're at the well this is that's I mean, most people are retarded. Like you said, like it's unfortunately like yeah, it's i I don't mean that to be elitist. We've been under s massive psychological warfare, like we've been under intense attack for decades and lifetimes. Like it's been awful. So yeah.
Corey: Unless the lie is too big.
E.M. Burlingame: Including myself many times. So I you know, I'm not it's not like I'm s you know, same yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. Centuries. Yeah. Yeah. So I you know, here here's the thing. Thermodynamics always wins, right? So we can boil down all the conversations and all the narrative and everything else to you know in a positive, you know, for a for a positive, right? Thermodynamics, you know, the laws of thermodynamics, the Maxwell's equations.
Collin Klein: So it's
E.M. Burlingame: And the laws of conservation of energy, those three things control all from the microscopic level all the way up to the most complex systems that we know that we built in the body, etc., which is by far the most complex systems. Nothing we've devised artif artificially comes even close. But those three sets of equations, those three sets of rules control everything and they have an upward bound. And you can fake them, you know, you can put more and more and more energy and effort, et cetera, to fake them, but that itself takes more and more energy and effort and resources and time, et cetera. And so everything reaches a a thermal, you know, a thermodynamic hard limit at some point. And then it either reorients and reorganizes, which, if we take a step back, is what's happening right now, it is happening. And then you have to be careful to make sure that the malevolence that that got you know that's thrived now, the virus that's thrived now doesn't infect, doesn't unduly, it's gonna infect the new host anyways, right? The new thermodynamic balancing system. But you wanna make sure that it's not the dominant force in the new system that rolls out, right? And so that's what the fight against C B D Cs and all the C B D Cs don't work. They're not gonna work. They know it. It's something they throw up as a red herring. So you're not you're paying attention to that, not paying attention to what they're doing by flooding three thousand more people into your fucking community this month.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you think this whole you will own nothing and be happy was a legit operation like they were actually trying? Because it feels like they knew this was never gonna work.
Corey: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Yes. No, no, y for okay, excuse me right now. If you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail and they take everything. You already own nothing and you're unhappy. We already own nothing. Now I wanna say something to this very statement, you will own nothing and be happy. Okay, this goes to the speech I gave about about the three upper classes, right? When we think of elites, there's
Collin Klein: Correct. Yes.
E.M. Burlingame: Most of the people who think about it are as elites aren't fucking elite at all. They're petty, what's called petty elites. But the three upper classes, the upper middle class, lower upper class, and truly upper class, right? They have a very gosh, what was I? Own nothing and be happy. Okay. Own nothing and be happy is actually the way you wanna be. But not the way that the upper middle class and the lower upper class are trying to do it where they own everything and you rent it. Own nothing to be happy is all my assets are in a trust. I don't actually personally own a damn thing. The trust does, or the trusts of trust own everything, and it's protected and secured in there from me and my descendants and others. And I'm pretty happy about that. I don't need to have my name on it. I don't need to own it. So what they're taking is the way that the truly upper class works. They don't own anything. It's in trust of trust, and there's executors to the trust, and you're on the board and and you're trying to make sure that the assets grow and and or at least stabilize or minimize losses in in downtimes and you make sure that with you get
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Shitty descendants, which is gonna happen, or you get people who infiltrate and they're malevolent and they're trying to steal shit, which is gonna happen, which happened in my family. Both of those tied together, right? Which ended up us in the TP and all that shit. That some portion survives, right? That something survives. Well, that only happens in these complex, sophisticated family office structures. That's where the actual true you will own nothing and be happy comes from. And that's a good thing, and we should teach. as many people as possible, you know, as many people as we can, how to actually in that way own nothing and be happy. It's yours. You get to use it and benefit off it, as do your children. It's in the in the estate. But you don't actually own it because that's the way in which the system's worked out so that, you know, anything be can taken from you, stolen from you, you know, the tax man can come after you, lawyer can come after you, etcetera. That's where it really comes from, and that's been centuries of development to be able to do that. That's legit. Own nothing and be happy. The other way in which, though, the truly up the lower upper class, the upper middle class has been doing it, and then the elites is we'll own everything, you rent it as a chapel slave, because it's a form of slavery. For all intents and purposes, that's what we have now. Right?
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: We already have you own nothing and you'd be happy because all they gotta do is move against you for taxes or fees or or taxes and fees or or for close on a loan for whatever made up reason, et cetera. I've had two two very wealthy friends brought down that way, both of which were fraudulently done by the financial institutions, but they'd already lost all their wealth by the time, you know, that all that disclosure came out in the open and they're never gonna get that wealth back. Those companies were destroyed. Right? Assets parsed up and sold off. So, you know, when we look back at medieval times, most people didn't own much of anything and they were pretty damn happy. Look at the writings at the time. We don't hear all this malevolent myop you know, moping myopic bullshit about the middle evil middle age times when you read it in their own words. That was all made up by historians in the last century looking backwards, trying to justify power grabs today.
Corey: Yeah.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Right? Some of the happy I'll give you s another example because I I'm from the West out here and I grew up around horses and cattle and all of that. And some of the happiest people I've ever known in my life are cowboys. Legitimate cowboys. They don't own a damn thing. They might own a saddle, right? Pair of boots, a couple hats, a couple pair of boots. It was they
Corey: Yeah.
Collin Klein: Mm-hmm.
Cody: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: didn't own a horse, that you know, the horses that they worked with and rode, they didn't own the cattle, they didn't own the land, they didn't but everything they needed was taken care of. And they got to go live this extraordinary life. They owned nothing and they were happy. And that's the way most of our ancestors have been.
Collin Klein: I guess I interpreted it the way you you discussed that it was we'll own the assets and then you guys are all gonna be renters basically, which yeah, that's that yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, slaves, chattel slaves, yeah. It's the Roman system. That that was the Roman system, right? When we look at slave you know, the Roman slave system was not like the South, you know, or or the African slave trade stuff. It was not like that at all. Right? Throughout most of human history, most people owned nothing and they found happiness or they were happy, and many of them were able to rise up in high positions. Isn't that in the Bible? That those Christians talk about? Weren't weren't the Jews, you know, in Egypt slaves? Many of them rose up to high positions and so you know, w we should have a life goal of owning nothing and be happy. But it should be because we understand, and by the way, technology help, you know, LLMs, et cetera, help us do this now, right? But we should look to the way in which the truly upper class conducts themselves in terms of their assets, lending, borrowing, financial what do they do to protect their wealth?
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: And how can we do that? Well, how they do it is they literally own nothing and they have a good life. Why? Because you can be happy when your assets are protected, when they're sheltered, they're they're in structures that you can trust. That they could the tax man, the the criminal attorney, you know, anybody can come after you and they're not gonna get your assets.
Cody: you
E.M. Burlingame: That makes you happy.
Collin Klein: Yeah, as long as you're a made man.
Cody: that's the reason homeless people are well that's the reason homeless people are happy they have nothing to lose
E.M. Burlingame: Well you can
Collin Klein: we have access to blind trusts, you're right. We do.
E.M. Burlingame: Well, but well, so we we can do all that ourselves, right? So give me one second. Part of the problem that we have is that we don't think in those terms, right, from early age age in life. We should be teaching people these things in high school so that they start thinking in terms of asset building, asset protection, capital at right. People need to st the amazing thing about the system that we have, you know, for all of its flaws, is that it's open to anybody. It's unbelievably complex and it's unbelievably sophisticated by nature, and it has to be, right? To be r real and defensible. But it's open to anybody. That's the that's the amazing thing about America. Now it's been closing. I've watched it substantively close over the last 30 years. Substantively. While they're saying exactly the opposite the whole time, but I've been watching it closing over the last 30 years. but it's still open. And to their credit, the ultra high, you know, the good ultra night, the responsible ultra high networks here are trying to work really hard to open it back up. But once as it's opening up, while it's like right now, I'm I'm using tools that these people created to do something that before, as I've been doing it the last five days, I've literally been able to do what would have taken a year and a whole team of guys and probably cost me a million, million and a half dollars. I've done it for 700 bucks and five days of my time. And I'm not done. I gotta improve and I gotta work on it, et cetera. But I'm able to do that. I couldn't have imagined that five years ago, ten years ago. It's open to anybody. Now, granted, I'm fifty nine years old. I started in technology in nineteen eighty four and I've been involved in all kinds of technologies across the whole spectrum, but mostly telecommunications, computing, and fintech. Right? That's mostly what I've done. Well, I have all the requisite skills to be able to make sure that the machine's doing it right. Right. And that's a necessary thing. But one of the one of the things I found is that okay, have two inst you know, one of the things you do is don't rely on one engine. Somebody said this earlier, right? But you Corey, you said this. I run things through three different engines and my own knowledge.
Corey: Yeah.
Cody: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Even with my extensive knowledge and experience, I still run things through three engines, and they still only can maximally get me about 40% there. Right? So I'll take some depending on the nature of what it is, I might initiate a query and grow, you know, and I've got to write the prompt right. I gotta figure that out to begin with, or you're just skewed off, right? And the crazy thing is though, you can ask it to help you to write the prompt, right? To organize your thought, then you stop, you pull back, you write the okay, anyways.
Corey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: I might run something through Grok, and then because Deep Seek does something a little bit different, its models tuned a little different. I might take it over to Deep Seek and say, hey, check this in these ways. Then I'll take that and I might go to Claude, you know, Anthropic and go, okay, now I've got the base, I'm solid with that. That was grok, helped me do that. I went over to Deep Seek to do refinement. It does better at connective bits, right? Okay, got it. Less formulaic than Grok, et cetera. Okay, got it. And now I'll go to anthropic that's really good at structural stuff and I'll go, okay, now I need to put this together. It's horrible at linguistic stuff, right? Don't ever try to fucking write with gr with Claude. It will fuck you up. But it's really good on the technical stuff. Right? So and then sometimes it's the other way. It's like, okay, well I got a technical thing I need to do and I need to get that. So I'm gonna start at Claude on the technical side and then I'm gonna go to Grok because it's got more of the legal business side of stuff.
Corey: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Really well. And so I'll go there for that. And then there's some refinement of the language and all that. I'm going to go over to Deep Seek and to none of these things were available, you know, years ago. And there's an unbelievable amount of capabilities in these things. Excuse me. If you know how to use them right, and they're open to anybody. and by the way, it was very wealthy people who've built and funded and created and support those things.
Corey: Mm-hmm.
E.M. Burlingame: Not like they're trying to lock us out or keep us out. The system's still open. It's just, it's not the system that our parents, you know, particularly my parents, and for the younger generations, me as the parent inherited. Right? So I still love our system. I still love who we are. I believe what we have to do is a restoration, not a revolution. In fact, a revolution would destroy us because we have so much capacity now. So many things that we can do. Right? And one of the things we have to do is stop taking pills. Red pills, white pills, blue pills, black pills. If you gotta do something, go back to the OG, cocaine, and just get over with it like a real fucking man.
Corey: Yes.
Cody: cane or nothing. Don't be a pussy.
Collin Klein: Great. I so
E.M. Burlingame: Cocaine or nothing.
Corey: You heard it for the first time, nowhere else.
Collin Klein: I I definitely f we can wrap up here soon. thank you for giving us the time. I did one have one little quick I don't well in this new model, they are I mean ev I I don't know how what do you see them having to do in order to survive? 'Cause I don't
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah. Reconquista. They literally they're gonna have to do the same thing that El Cid did in Spain and in Andalusia and elsewhere.
Collin Klein: You see that actually happening?
E.M. Burlingame: Possible. It's possible. It only takes one to three percent of a populace actively engaged and very capable of violence to completely change the dynamic and and and can and win. One to three percent. There's a reason the bikers have the one percenters. That's all it takes, one percent of them. That's the same way at the scale of populations. It takes one to three percent. Not that's not all shooters, right? That's one to three percent, actively engaged in a armed rebellion resistance, right? An armed restoration. That's all it takes. And they still have that. And by the way, after 20 some odd years of war, and now more because of the war in Ukraine, et cetera, NATO, NATO members have a whole lot of experience. Men, a lot of guys look like me, by the way. And you guys, whole lot of men have a whole lot of experience at this kind of dirty war because that's what we did for almost thirty years.
Corey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And still doing. Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: And still doing, although much fewer of us now, right? So I'm not again, I I I don't do cocaine either. I don't do anything. I'm too old for all that shit. I don't even drink anymore. And I r rarely have more than a cup of coffee a day. but you know, the point is is that let's stop taking pills, let's stop following down their demoralization pathway, despondency pathway, what w our ancestors built and what our parents built and our grandparents, right? Even the boomers, right? and even us older Xers is absolutely extraordinary. There are really good people at really high levels doing everything they can to give us all the tools we need and all the capacities we need to really restore ourselves. That's what we need to focus on. Instead of chasing down what does this mean and what does that mean and what does that mean, we should be looking at, okay, what are the tools we have available and how do I address that problem? Right? How do I fix that problem right there?
Collin Klein: Yeah. It's wise. Pragmatic and true.
Cody: but i agree with you on that it off the post a friend of mine he he works with the v eight when i met him he smoked cigarettes and drink coke it's all he did he stopped smoking cigarette drinking coke now he takes like seven different brands of pill because the the he says that bills are better for you than coke my you should go back to coke and cigarettes keyword what healthy correct cooking cigarettes
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah. I w so when I first went in the army, I'll tell you a funny story, guys, and then I gotta we gotta wrap it up here, but when I first went in the army in mid eighties, getting into the late eighties actually, my platoon sergeant was a Vietnam veteran, right? And he had like two, three tours in Vietnam when he was a teenager, et cetera.
Cody: Understood.
E.M. Burlingame: He was a chain smoker and he'd been a chain smoker at that point for pffff, I don't know, fifteen years, ten years, fifteen years, probably longer than that. And and a heavy drinker. A beer. I mean he would drink beer, so he pissed most of it out, right? So it's not like vodka or anything else, but he was a heavy drinker. We would go out to do a PT test in the morning, and he was I don't know, thir late thirties, early forties. He would smoke a cigarette. He'd he'd be drinking till, you know, whatever. one two o'clock in the morning. We had PT tests at like four thirty-five in the morning. He'd smoke he wouldn't smoke all of us push-ups and sit-ups, but when it came to the run, he would smoke a unfiltered Paul Maul cigarette, and then he would outrun every fucking one of us on the two-miler. And I did a nine and a half, you know, nine, just over nine, nine and a quarter, nine and a half, two mile run. That guy would smoke us. Right? Well, and then as soon as he gets across the finish line What did he have to do for his lungs the way he was too? He had to smoke another one of those damn palm all cigarettes to open his lungs up again, right? And right? But you know, the point is, and then like, you know, what did what was the actor, the guy who was in the Burns? Burns? No, no, no, no. The guy who was in a wheelchair, he was a comedian, one of Bob Hope's friends. you know who I'm talking about, right? He's
Corey: There it is. Yeah.
Cody: That's awesome. Yeah.
Collin Klein: Ken Burns.
Cody: yeah birds he always had the girl macarons in the trunk
E.M. Burlingame: Yeah, and he smoked cigars and all that and they and they asked him, he like a hundred some odd years old and they were Ha what's the sec secret? And he's You smoke a cigar every day and have whiskey.
Corey: Yeah. George Burns.
E.M. Burlingame: George Burns. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Cody: george birds he he's
Collin Klein: George Burns, yeah.
Cody: wakes up every he said he wake up he was like he wake up every morning started with a cigar to eight bacon had eggs and drink whiskey it was like
Collin Klein: Don't listen to your doctor.
E.M. Burlingame: Just don't be uptight, right? Don't be an uptight asshole. Life's awesome. Life's amazing. Even all this crazy wild shit. The fact that we're able to sit here on a Tuesday and have this conversation, right? It's just really life's amazing.
Collin Klein: Yeah.
Corey: Mm. Yeah.
Cody: Holy... That's the thing I keep coming across, this is like... It just... Life is too good. And they have run out of things to be afraid of chasing them and killing them, so they're just bitching about nothing anymore. There is no reason for them to like, learn how to survive, because all they have to do is wake up, so it's...
E.M. Burlingame: Well Well, I think that the the pro in this is the book I wrote, The Eternal War, right? The problem is there's a difference between being alive and living. And there's a whole lot of people throughout history that have been alive, but throughout history in any period of time in any any community, there's not a whole lot of people who are actually who are actually living.
Cody: Yeah.
E.M. Burlingame: Right. And that's why and I don't this isn't my path. I thought it was for a long year long time and I tried to, but it's just not for me. But I think Hunter S. Thompson had it right. It isn't about dying as the prettiest corpse, right? It's about sliding in, barely making it on time, across the lore across the line, everything spent, all burned up, and the last thing you say is, Man, that was a fucking ride.
Cody: yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Collin Klein: On that note,
Corey: Yeah.
Collin Klein: Mr. E. Burlingame, thank you so much for your time and that was very, very useful and gave me a lot to think and reconsider. Thank you.
Corey: Thank you for coming.
Cody: lightning.
Corey: All right, bye.
Cody: well thank you very much for time thank you Wow.
Collin Klein: All right.
Corey: Hopefully that uploaded. Yeah, did you
Cody: shit.