Epstein BOMBSHELL LEAKS out of the WHITE HOUSE!

WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:04.960
If it's Wednesday and your own Midas Touch network and
2
00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.960
it's eight pm Eastern time, you must be on Legal
3
00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:14.359
AF the podcast, and I'm Michael Popepak and I'm joined
4
00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:18.559
today with one of our regular anchors on Legal laf
5
00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:24.519
over on Legal aff YouTube channel, Lisa Graves. Lisa, I
6
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.199
haven't seen you since the weekend when we were in
7
00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:33.520
Philadelphia for net Roots Nation and did some amazing interviewing,
8
00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:37.359
including of Jamie Raskin Together, which is up on Legal
9
00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:39.960
af YouTube and doing great. So great to see you
10
00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:41.200
on on the screen.
11
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.479
Gat to see you again, and thanks for having me
12
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.119
on here with you as your goats.
13
00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.439
Absolutely Karen Free mcniffolow is traveling today and so Lisa
14
00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.520
is here. For those who don't know Lisa, that's not
15
00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:55.960
just a random book behind her head. She wrote that
16
00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.479
random book behind her head. It's called Without Precedent. It's
17
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:02.359
a take down of the Roberts Court. Doesn't that sound good?
18
00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.359
It makes you feel just saying those words, a takedown
19
00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:10.000
of the Roberts Court. And I not only spent some
20
00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:14.079
quality time with Lisa Gray's constitutional scholar extraordinary, one of
21
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:16.439
the few people in America that served in all three
22
00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.719
branches of government. She's a five tool player, as we
23
00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.400
like to say in baseball. And we sat in on
24
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:29.040
a couple of Supreme Court panels. I was in the audience,
25
00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:32.480
Lisa was on the was up there on the panel
26
00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:36.239
about reform about the United States Supreme Court. And I
27
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.519
think at some point during the show today we'll share
28
00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:43.439
sort of what we what, what we learned, and what
29
00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.159
we think the proper course is once adults get back
30
00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.680
into government, which hopefully will be at the midterms. And
31
00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:50.959
it was so great to hang out with the Court,
32
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:55.560
accountability and true North people and just be surrounded. It
33
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.159
really re energized me to be surrounded by people who
34
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:06.239
are who was everyday existence is about voter protection, civil rights,
35
00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:10.520
constitutional rights, the Supreme Court and getting corruption out of it,
36
00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.280
women's rights, reproductive rights, immigration rights, you name it. We
37
00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:20.400
were all yoked together for three days in the Philadelphia
38
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:21.360
Convention Center.
39
00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.479
Right, Yes, that's right. It was great to see you popackend,
40
00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.639
to see so many activists out who are really eager
41
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:30.639
to learn more about what's gone wrong, how we got here,
42
00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.439
and what we can do about it. And we had
43
00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:37.159
a great panel with Senator white House with two amazing
44
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.159
legal Scholars at Harvard with an organizer from Alabama in
45
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.960
the aftermath of the Milligan case ruling by the Roberts
46
00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.879
Court last week, and so it was very exhilarating, and
47
00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:50.960
it was great to see some of our other allies
48
00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.919
on the Court's panel and see Jamie Raskin and interview
49
00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:59.319
him with you because he's working on democracy summer and
50
00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.840
there's a lot of things people can do, so like
51
00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.840
very exciting despite the hard things happening, there's a lot
52
00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:06.879
of lemonade to make.
53
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.919
Yeah, agreed, And I just wanted to kind of impart
54
00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.159
that to our audience. You know, when I go there,
55
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.400
when Lisa goes there, we're your ambassadors, we're your fiduciaries.
56
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.479
We feel that way. And interviewing somebody or meeting somebody,
57
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.680
I mean and making a new relationship, that's something that
58
00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.240
will endure, we hope, to the benefit of our audience
59
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.000
on Legal af YouTube channel and of course here on
60
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:33.120
the podcast. And so we've got a couple of we're
61
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.520
going to get into deep dive, molecular level about voting
62
00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.400
and about because that if you had to ask me,
63
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.319
what's the number one thing the audience comments on ask
64
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.719
me questions about on all my various podcasts and shows
65
00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.039
and videos, it's about poppac Are we going to be
66
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.719
able to vote? Is the vote goingn account or the
67
00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.240
Attorney's General already or the states ready for all the
68
00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:57.840
stuff that Donald Trump's going to try to do to
69
00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.479
overthrow democracy second time. And so I wanted to do
70
00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:07.360
sort of an all almost all seventy five percent teaching,
71
00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.080
you know, brown bag teaching here on the on the
72
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:16.079
podcast about all things voting, I mean voting and databases
73
00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.160
and lawsuits around that, and jerry mandering and lawsuits around that,
74
00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.079
what's going on in California, and how that's a blueprint
75
00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.639
that we need to be sensitive to but is also
76
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.720
informing us on how to fight at the mid term.
77
00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:32.759
So that was actually a good thing. And then a
78
00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.759
sort of at sort of the halfway mark, you know,
79
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:39.399
sort of no no pun intended at the at the
80
00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:41.720
sort of like the super Bowl show, the halftime show,
81
00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.279
we're bringing in Mark Elias. Let me repeat that. I
82
00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:47.360
want to hear the crowd roar. I will read it.
83
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.879
Mark Elias of Democracy, Dockett and a lawyer who's in
84
00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:55.279
the courtrooms fighting these very cases. If you don't know
85
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.399
Mark Elias. You need to know him, you will know him.
86
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:02.279
Tonight it's Legal AF meets Democracy Docket and Mark OLiS
87
00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.959
out about the halfway. Mark. Let's kick it off though
88
00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.079
with some breaking news as we came on the air.
89
00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.279
This is live live you know, and just so you know,
90
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.319
Lisa Graves and Dina Doll do Monday Night Live Legal
91
00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:18.439
AF on the Legal AF YouTube channel, Legal AFF Podcast
92
00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:22.319
Monday Night Live, five pm Eastern Time over on Legal AF.
93
00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:24.639
This is live. So if you got questions you want
94
00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.279
to ask Lisa or me or Mark or any of
95
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.399
the three of us, just put it in chat and
96
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:31.879
our team will you know, our team is standing by
97
00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:34.319
to put it up for us to try to grab
98
00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:40.079
at certain intervals. So let's start with Epstein. Yes, I
99
00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:43.079
don't know what Maggie, I don't know who Maggie Habraman sources.
100
00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.800
But this new bombshell that came out this afternoon in
101
00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.360
anticipation of her book inside the White House, freak out
102
00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:53.600
over the Epstein files her coverage and I'll give the
103
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.759
overview and then turn it over you, Lisa. Her report
104
00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:04.120
is so at the like quotes almost as if there
105
00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:08.120
is a mole in the Situation room in February and
106
00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.680
March of last year about the Epstein file. And she's
107
00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.360
got the tapes. I mean, I mean, I don't know
108
00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.519
if somebody surreptitiously recorded things, but she's not doing that. Well,
109
00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:22.319
this may have been discussed or no, she's going And JD.
110
00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.040
Van said the following, and then in response, you know,
111
00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.360
you know this, this guy say it said, you know,
112
00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.160
James Blake said the Fox and this, and I'm like,
113
00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.920
these are like quotes, so leaky administration. Somebody's talking. You know,
114
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.680
that's gonna piss off Donald Trump. But Maggie Habermann doesn't care.
115
00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.120
And so the overview is, and we watched a lot
116
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.120
of these pieces, but Maggie puts it together in a
117
00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:52.519
puzzle and makes us understand what happened, so in and
118
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:57.000
around if everybody remembers in the timeline, because sometimes you
119
00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:01.360
kind of get it out of whack. You've got Trump
120
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.240
and Bondye getting a lot of pressure, the administration getting
121
00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:08.079
a lot of pressure back in January and February to
122
00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.959
do something about the Epstein files and to release them
123
00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:13.800
because people in the administration like pu tell that you know,
124
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:18.040
they were all right wing podcasters that were big conspiracy theorists,
125
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:20.680
and they were all about the Epstein files, and so
126
00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.560
there's this big push internally and externally to release it all.
127
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.959
According to Maggie Haverman, all the reporting, all Trump wanted
128
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.240
to do was not release any documents at all. That
129
00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.879
was the first thing. His next his next cambit was
130
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:39.920
to have a sort of a tip of the hat
131
00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:45.240
to transparency, a gesture of transparency without really being transparent.
132
00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.079
And they were trying to calculate how little they could
133
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.839
produce this is a situation room, little they could produce
134
00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.920
in order to satisfy what they thought was a story
135
00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.399
that was going to go away. They were convinced, based
136
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.160
on polling and based on people in the room like
137
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.600
Susie Wiles and others, that this story was going to
138
00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:12.040
blow over okay, which of course huge miscalculation. And they
139
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:16.040
believed it was only being kept alive by left wing
140
00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.920
podcasters and fringe conspiracy theorists. They didn't say minus in
141
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.600
legal left, but they might as well, and that there
142
00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.800
was no real voting block that was being represented by
143
00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:31.120
these conspiracy theories. That was sort of at the core right.
144
00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.879
And then the reporting is that JD. Vance was freaking out.
145
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.080
I mean that was the words. That's the freak out
146
00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.240
that jd Vance in particular had bought into all the
147
00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:43.320
conspiracy theories, and he was like, we got to come clean,
148
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:45.759
we got to release everything. In fact, even if it
149
00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:47.759
has Trump's name on it, it'll be better if we get
150
00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:51.080
out ahead of the story. So he's got a situation room, right, Lisa,
151
00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.679
that's as reported. I'll paint the picture and turn it
152
00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.840
over to you. You got Susie Wiles, chief of staff,
153
00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:03.080
you got You've got Carolyn Levitt, Press secretary, Stephen Chung
154
00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:09.080
communications director. You've got Todd blanche and and Bondi Cash Betel.
155
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:14.759
You've got Warrington. Who's the White House counsel. You've got Uh,
156
00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:19.679
who's the guy that's the guy that's in charge of dummymandering. Uh, James,
157
00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:24.080
it'll come to me in a minute. James Blair. Yeah, Blair.
158
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.320
You got Blair in there. Blair. And this is the
159
00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.679
quote where I was like, Maggie's got a source. They're
160
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.480
like that taped this because Blair's comment was when they
161
00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:35.879
said we need a press conference, I mean immediately, and
162
00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.080
he stood up and the only bright thing in the room.
163
00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.799
He said with all due respects, everybody in this room
164
00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:46.279
developed the original communications plan that got us into this mess.
165
00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.960
So I don't think another communications plan by you guys
166
00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:51.639
is going to get us out of it. And then
167
00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.320
lastly they had to figure out what to do with
168
00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:57.679
the problem named Glainne Maxwell. And so in the same
169
00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:01.080
room they were they were considering, we have Tucker Carlson,
170
00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:06.559
uh interviewer, what should we do about and the best
171
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:08.600
line did you catch the line of Stephen.
172
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:12.039
Chung about about about Glaen?
173
00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:20.039
Yeah, no, he said, Stephen Chung said, giving a pardon
174
00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:26.759
to a person convicted. Yes, girl, girl sex trafficking is
175
00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:33.799
a PR disaster. Nothing about the morality, about the ethics,
176
00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.720
It's a PR disaster. All right, take it from there.
177
00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:40.600
You also have the Epstein birthday book that came with
178
00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:42.559
the Wall Street Journal all at the same time. What
179
00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:44.759
did you what did you make from the report? The
180
00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:46.279
detail of the reporting.
181
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:49.519
Well, this is really an extraordinary set of reporting. And
182
00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:52.759
as you mentioned, this is a preview of the book
183
00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.759
that Maggie Hammerman wrote. They described that they this this
184
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:00.360
book is based on over one thousand interviews and they
185
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.399
only did exact quotes where the person was certain that
186
00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.840
that's what was said, and if they had any doubt,
187
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.559
they paraphraser didn't include it. And so it looks pretty
188
00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.039
rock solid in terms of the documentation. But as you
189
00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:16.200
point out, this particular story in New York Times today
190
00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:18.960
is based on a meeting in the Situation Room. Now
191
00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.679
that's the room typically where the President of the United
192
00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:25.679
States sits with generals and national security advisors on matters
193
00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.919
of war and peace. But in this instance, Trump wasn't there.
194
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:32.559
He was excluded from the meeting because they were these
195
00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.559
advisors were so concerned about what was happening in terms
196
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.919
of the public response to the failure basically this administration
197
00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.240
to be transparent about the Epstein files after all of
198
00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.720
the time that so many of them, including Cash, Betel
199
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.720
and others, had spent talking about the Epstein files during
200
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.639
the Biden administration and during the twenty twenty four election.
201
00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.879
And so it really is it's an amazing tale, and
202
00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.159
it looks to be very accurate on the surface. And
203
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.799
there are a couple of things that really did stand
204
00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:06.159
out for me, you know, based on this reporting. One was,
205
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.000
like you said, there's clearly a leak or two or
206
00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.159
maybe three who knows given the number of quotes verbatim quotes,
207
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.679
or someone taking very good notes, or perhaps someone taking
208
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.919
very good notes from a recording. It really is an
209
00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:23.159
extraordinary set of conversations. And like you said, Stephen Chung's
210
00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:27.000
comment about Glene Maxwell, isn't about the morality of cutting
211
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.120
a deal or the immorality of cutting a deal with
212
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.440
Gleae Maxwell. It's about how it would look, which is
213
00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.879
really extraordinary, and so in essence, part of the story
214
00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.919
that's told today is how that scheme was hashed, how
215
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.919
they decided that they were going to The idea was
216
00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:46.039
that they would interview Maxwell or have Tucker Carlson or
217
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:49.960
someone interview Maxwell and basically count on her saying that
218
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.320
Trump did nothing wrong, despite you know, some of the
219
00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.960
things we know in those files that later came out,
220
00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:59.960
despite other statements by other women about how Donald Trump
221
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.480
had treated them, and so you know, that was the
222
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:05.559
gamble they were willing to make. And there was a
223
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.559
conversation about if they did this meeting with her, you know,
224
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.200
would she get a pardon or a commutation or something else. Well,
225
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.120
we know what happened next. What happened next is that
226
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:20.399
Todd Blanche Donald Trump's former defense attorney quote interviewed and
227
00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.840
that's technically true, but you know, I'm going to use
228
00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:27.039
the term loosely for a transcript to be specifically released
229
00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.240
for this purpose of trying to clear Donald Trump, saying
230
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:35.080
that she never saw him do anything wrong. And immediately
231
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.879
after this interview, she was transferred from the prison that
232
00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.480
she was duly sentenced to for the very serious crime
233
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.120
she was convicted of of sex trafficking and other and
234
00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:49.120
sexual abuse as well to one of those club feds.
235
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.480
And so you know, this went down in some ways
236
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.519
how they planned it. But there are a couple of
237
00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.559
the things I want to flag, Michael, if that's all right,
238
00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:59.080
Because when you look at the story of what happened here,
239
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:00.879
the part of the story that's told here and then
240
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.759
beyond what you see is a timeline. And the timeline
241
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.200
in part is, you know, February of last year, Pam
242
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.639
Bondi saying, you know, she's got the client list on
243
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.639
her desk right here and just getting ready to clear it.
244
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:17.360
Then then on the twenty seventh of February, they released
245
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:19.320
the binders that didn't have anything new.
246
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:23.759
Oh I love the binders. I love them. Get I
247
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:25.720
know you're going to get there about the fact that
248
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.159
about whether she cleared it or not.
249
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:30.360
Yes, which yeah, which the White House officials were shocked
250
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.440
they had not cleared it, they hadn't seen them, and
251
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.159
the influencers felt betrayed because there was really nothing new
252
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:39.600
in there. Then you see a statement I think it
253
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.879
was in June of twenty twenty five, where were the comments.
254
00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:48.080
The comments from the destment were the files contained a
255
00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:51.279
lot of child porn, a lot of child porn. So
256
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.639
that admission. Then you have this statement that comes out
257
00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.879
in July July seventh, twenty twenty five, in which this
258
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.919
memo from dj NFBI, in which the memo says, A,
259
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.720
there's no client list. Forget about what Pambondi said and
260
00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.919
what we've all been saying all along. B we that
261
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.080
they reviewed over three hundred gigs of quote evidence. That
262
00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:17.080
was a nice admission. Uh. And see that despite this
263
00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:20.399
there that there will be no further investigation of any
264
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.399
third parties. So you have this admission that there's a
265
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.279
ton of child porn in these files, but they're not
266
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.279
going to do any further investigation. It was extraordinary. It
267
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:30.600
landed like a bombshell.
268
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.039
Yeah, before before you leave that memo I don't have
269
00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:35.679
up we can't put it up here. But do you
270
00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.639
remember not only was it two pages and completely it completely,
271
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.759
completely cleared and exonerated everybody, but it was talking about
272
00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:49.279
cowardless cowardice. It was unsigned and I think undated and unsigned.
273
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.600
Nothing says, nothing says I want to be associated with
274
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:56.080
this document, like somebody doesn't want to put their signature
275
00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:56.360
on it.
276
00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:01.519
Yeah, I mean an anonymous finding from the Justice Department,
277
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.399
and you know they put their their their names all
278
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:04.279
over everything else.
279
00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:04.519
Right.
280
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.960
So, then, as as this meeting is happening in the
281
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.879
situation room with these you know, nearly a dozen high
282
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.720
level Trump advisors trying to figure out what to do
283
00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.480
in the face of Trump trying to stop anything else
284
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.039
from coming about out of the Epstein files, the Wall
285
00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.240
Street Journal story breaks about the birthday card, uh, and
286
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.399
Donald Trump's close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and all of
287
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.840
the wonderful secret things that they know about each other. Right,
288
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.360
the image of the of the of the woman and
289
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.799
the breast and the signature line uh, you know, you know,
290
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.120
standing in for the pubic here which Trump is denied.
291
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.360
But that let me just say one of the One
292
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.759
of the pieces that is re emphasizing the story is
293
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.279
that that birthday card wasn't just in a book of
294
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.559
birthday cards. It was in a leather bound book.
295
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:54.159
Wait, wait four volume. Yes, he wasn't. He didn't even
296
00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:55.559
make the first volume.
297
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.720
Right right right, you know, and so you you know,
298
00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.279
so that part, that's what on that.
299
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:05.240
Note, On that note, there were hundreds of people that
300
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.559
made submissions to this birthday book that Coleen Maxwell said
301
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.079
she handled because her mother had done it for her
302
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:17.200
father or whatever, and it brought down careers all over
303
00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.720
the world in academia and finance, in the royal family
304
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.680
and the rest. Not one person of the hundreds of
305
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.240
people on either side of Donald Trump on the page
306
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:32.000
or has said that's a forgery. That's not mine. The
307
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:36.559
only person yes, when somebody went back, somebody forged it
308
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.240
about my relay was is Donald Trump?
309
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.000
Yeah, yeah, it's extorting. And then another component of this
310
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.960
they replay, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green's encounter with Donald Trump.
311
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.200
I think that was also maybe in the situation room.
312
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.599
It was at the White House or something, and she
313
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.960
says that Donald Trump told her that releasing the fem
314
00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.559
fouls could hurt some of his friends. And my thought was,
315
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.759
are those friends John Baron, John Miller, and the Dennison
316
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.640
uh the aliases that Donald Trump has used. But you know,
317
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.039
clearly we've seen other names come forward, Howard Lutnik and
318
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.759
others who are are mentioned in the in the Epstein
319
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.440
files when they were finally a portion of them was
320
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.839
finally released as part of the Epstein Transparencies Act, where
321
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.920
a handful of Republicans joined every Democrat in you know,
322
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.400
voting for their release. And then and then Trump signed
323
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.440
on to say, you know, he just couldn't stop the inevitable.
324
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:27.839
So that was total. That was four hundred and thirty
325
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.319
four out of four hundred and thirty five at the end, yes,
326
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.240
at the very end, right right.
327
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.559
Right exactly what Once the lemmings started like that, they
328
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:40.839
all yeah, Initially for the discharge position, they were only
329
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.839
like four or five. And in fact, that was when
330
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.319
the House Speaker was trying to hold off on swearing
331
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.799
in Adalida Grihalva, who we had on the show on
332
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.599
Legal af to talk about this debacle of not being
333
00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.640
sworn in. Once she was sworn in, they could not
334
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.200
hold it off. And then almost every single member of
335
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.839
Commerce Congress voted for it, but talk what happened, talk
336
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.039
about what happened next, because that was just last fall.
337
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.519
Then suddenly in January of this year, January thirty of
338
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:09.839
this year, Todd Blanche announces there's gonna be no more
339
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:11.759
files released, no more files released. And I really want
340
00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:13.880
to be careful about what I say here because the
341
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.119
shot There are many shocking things in that in that
342
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.039
press conference, but one of them was he specifically said,
343
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:25.039
of course, any depiction of child pornography was obviously excluded,
344
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.240
and then he said, quote anything that would jeopardize an
345
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.079
active federal investigation. And finally, anything that depicts or contains
346
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:36.559
images of death, physical abuse, or injury are also not produced. Still,
347
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.880
we have had no prosecutions of anyone coming out of
348
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.559
the files that the that DOJ and the FBI reviewed,
349
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.279
the fact that they had tons of child porn in
350
00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.359
there and seemingly images of death and physical injury, and
351
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.759
no consequences for anyone in terms of a criminal investigation
352
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:59.839
other than Epstein and Glene Maxwell. Is itself an outrageous scandal.
353
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.039
And and our colleague Katie Fang and I just interviewed
354
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.799
her her lawyer Brendan Blou from the Public Integrity Project.
355
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.480
You know, she filed the first and actually the only
356
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.799
lawsuit to under the Epstein Transparency actually has a hearing
357
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.319
June thirtieth in front of Judge Sullivan in which she's saying,
358
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.880
as a reporter, I've I have been informationally injured by
359
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.559
the fail which is which is a standing, a standing element.
360
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.559
I can't do my job. I can't do my job
361
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:32.480
by by by continuing to sit back and be spoon
362
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.640
fed documents and be told all that's all there is.
363
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.920
We know there's three million more, and her lawsuit is
364
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:43.440
to obtain the entirety of the Epstein files, including uh,
365
00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:48.839
the unredacted, including the Donald Trump documents, including get this one, Karen, Karen, sorry,
366
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.279
you know I usually do the show with Lisa, uh,
367
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:58.400
including the foreign They didn't bother if it was in
368
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:03.200
a foreign language, they just pass. This is an international
369
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.920
child sex trafficking ring. Now, yeah, how do you pass
370
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:11.200
on the on the on the foreign language ones. So yeah,
371
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:12.799
you know we're going to they attack to you for
372
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.559
not having standing. But let's see what happens. Come come
373
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.440
June thirtieth in front of Judge Sullivan.
374
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.039
That's right, and then you know, on top of that,
375
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:22.759
there's a couple of a couple other things that are
376
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.880
worth noting because all of this redaction effort at our
377
00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.119
expense by the FBI, by different agents or contractors who knows,
378
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.160
and by Todd Blanche reviewing them. He said to himself,
379
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.079
you know, you have a situation in which the victims'
380
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.839
names were exposed again on the sloppiness, but the men
381
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.480
who were implicated in a number of these exchanges about
382
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.519
snow white and other issues, their names were redacted. And
383
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:50.799
Jamie Raskin and other members of Congress went to the
384
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.519
Justice Department to have a look at the computers to
385
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.119
be able to do a search sort of a Google
386
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.240
search of the files. And there are different reports coming
387
00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.119
out of those meetings, but the accounts are tens of
388
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.680
thousands up to a million times Donald Trump's name appears
389
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:09.200
in these files, or mar A Lago or things related
390
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.319
to Trump appeared in these files. And that's just these files.
391
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.119
That doesn't include the files that were released by the
392
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.759
Jeffrey Epstein estate that came out last you know, last fall,
393
00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:20.799
that the Judiciary Committee and others have been have been
394
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.559
sharing where in that instance, the Waltreet Journal did an
395
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.400
analysis that showed that in a you know, decade long
396
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.799
period or more, Donald Trump's name appeared more than anyone
397
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.519
else's names in those files. And so, you know, Donald
398
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.880
Trump is repeatedly referenced in these files. And there are
399
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.720
some stories that were repriised in this New New York
400
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.480
Times report showing that there were allegations again against Donald Trump.
401
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.640
Some of them, you know, some of the allegations have
402
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.400
been covered in other reporting. There's the reprise of the
403
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.440
statement of a prosecutor in twenty twenty that Donald Trump
404
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.200
had taken far more trips on Epstein's jet than was
405
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:04.359
previously known. And there was a very you know, sad
406
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.079
story about, you know, coming through from Sarah Ransome about
407
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.720
one of the women in Epstein's sex stopping ring, a
408
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:16.200
woman named Jen who who who? According to this claim,
409
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.599
you know, Jen was someone who Donald Trump had sexual
410
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:26.599
relationships sexual relations with and was you know, uh, very
411
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.160
I don't know if I can say this on the art.
412
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:29.799
Guess I'll just go for it and say, I mean,
413
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:34.759
it's shocking to see a description that Donald Trump purportedly
414
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.240
was so rough with this woman's nipples that they were
415
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.480
raw and read and swollen and had made other statements
416
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:47.119
about women's nipples, among other things. And another part of this,
417
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.400
you know, investigation that we've seen from the reporting, this
418
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.960
particular part from the from MPR, not from New York Times,
419
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:56.839
was how the three O two's, which are the ride
420
00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.000
ups of the FBI when they interviewed someone making an allegation,
421
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.079
and how those pertaining to Donald Trump had been removed
422
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.559
in sequence, and MPR helped break that story. So there's
423
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.319
a lot of great investigative journalism going on. We have
424
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.160
a lot more to learn from the book. This is
425
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.440
just an excerpt of this whole book that Maggie Haberman did,
426
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:17.839
and I think there are going to be more revelations
427
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:18.160
to come.
428
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.799
Absolutely, and it's their worst nightmare. Is the reason it's
429
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.799
called the freak out because they were in the timeline
430
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.960
the way you presented it, they were freaking out because
431
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.400
it was just one bad story for them after another.
432
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.359
But it all starts with Trump. If Trump wanted to
433
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.440
do the right thing, which he obviously didn't, and he
434
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.400
just he should have released everything and appointed how his
435
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:43.119
Department of Justice appoint and independent special counsel to go
436
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:46.000
after wherever the files led knew.
437
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.680
I didn't believe in independent special counsel. And let me
438
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:51.839
just say this, it's interesting, like the speculation of the
439
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.720
leak is you know who the leakers are in speculating
440
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.240
who is it? Yeah, I mean is it Dan Bongino?
441
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.839
You know who could it be? But you know, one
442
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.599
of the things in there is you know, I think
443
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.640
you know, I'll just say this, I'll say this on
444
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.920
the record. I think JD. Vance was right to say
445
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.279
they should just release the files. You know, they should
446
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.720
just be released. But I'm sure that someone in the
447
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.200
White House is going to read that as betrayal that
448
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.440
the second in line for the president, the first in
449
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.599
line for the presidency after Trump, is saying let's release
450
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.000
all this.
451
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.799
In a wild You know, I think Marko Rubio is good.
452
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:28.599
I think Vance just bought himself being a vice president
453
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:34.839
again running for vice president again. Yeah, on that one.
454
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.960
But well, we'll continue to We'll continue to cover that story.
455
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:43.480
And then lastly, we all I think we all know
456
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:48.519
now that once again, Donald Trump, for the eight time nighttime,
457
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.680
I told the American people that the Iran war and
458
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.799
the ending of it was just around the corner. And
459
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.359
now we're firing off you know, new missiles again tonight,
460
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:02.319
and iran Is response is retaliating by firing on US
461
00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:06.599
assets and Bahrain and Kuwait and other places. And we're
462
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.799
no closer to this endgame, because this Iran war will end,
463
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.440
not when Donald Trump says it'll end. It'll end when
464
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:18.640
the Iranians say it ends. And they're not done yet,
465
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.559
and they've realized they can withstand the awesome firepower of
466
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.720
the American military and survive that because they're on a
467
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.079
different scale, they're on a hundred year They look at
468
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.839
things in one hundred years, not in how is this
469
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:35.920
going to affect the stock market? And you know, all right,
470
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:39.240
And as a result, the best case scenario, and this
471
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.680
is terrible, but best case scenario is that we get
472
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:46.839
the Obama treaty deal that Trump pulled out of, probably
473
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.599
a worse version of it, and we have to spend
474
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.200
billions of dollars in reparations to rebuild Iran without also
475
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:59.640
obtaining regime change. It's one thing to do the Marshall plan, right,
476
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.039
but you know, we took out Japan and Germany, right,
477
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.079
But like we're going to rebuild the Islamic Republican Guard,
478
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.319
like I don't understand, and then he's had there, you know,
479
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:13.839
and then cue the confetti canons on Fox. You know,
480
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.640
missions accomplished? What what was the mission?
481
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.400
Yeah? It really really, I mean in some ways the
482
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.400
mission looks like Wall Street manipulation and people getting rich
483
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.519
off of this war, and also Benjamin Yahu getting what
484
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:29.440
he wants in terms of the US being pulled into
485
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.920
this war of choice when it wasn't necessary and it
486
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.640
and it really was predicated by the utterly foolish withdrawal
487
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.279
from the agreement that the obaministration had negotiated, just like
488
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.279
sort of a de facto rejection of whatever this the
489
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.000
first black Presidentity States had done. In Iran. We are
490
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.799
worse off than we were in that agreement. We're worse
491
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.640
off than we were last year. Iran is holding many
492
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.519
of the cards, and like you said, we're in a
493
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.880
position with Trump's claims that we're gonna end up paying.
494
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.759
We the taxpayers, are going to end up paying to
495
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:02.759
rebuild Iran. And also Aroun is getting more revenue because
496
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.400
it's able to now put at tax and a toll
497
00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:08.599
on shipping in the Strait of horror moves, which was
498
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.440
not happening before so we're definitely in a worse position
499
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.960
because of Donald Trump's reckless policies, his erratic behavior, his
500
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:20.759
inability to actually negotiate an actual resolution, and his inability
501
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:24.160
to accept that a previous administration did anything right and
502
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:27.079
had and had a good, a good agreement in place
503
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:31.079
that would have you know, held back on Iran's nuclear program,
504
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.640
had more inspections, and not had us paying them, you know,
505
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:37.799
paying them to rebuild the country that we have attacked.
506
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.920
And so it really is, it really is basically an
507
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.000
unmitigated disaster. Then that's that all that is not funny.
508
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.839
But I did hear comedians say that Donald Trump has
509
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:49.359
won and lost and one and lost and won and
510
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:52.200
lost the Iran more more more than any other president
511
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:53.200
in US history.
512
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:56.599
Sorry, that's true. I counted it was seven until this week,
513
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.799
so now that's probably to about nine. When I'm so
514
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.319
I'm so happy to have you here, and I'm sure
515
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.440
our audience is thrilled. When we come back from a
516
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.200
quick break here on legal af We're going to get
517
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.359
in to the weeds and the molecular of all things,
518
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:19.000
voting voting protection, voting mobilization, data protection, and voter information protection.
519
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:23.160
The postal service and what we're learning by watching Donald
520
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.880
Trump attack the California vote. We can talk about why
521
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:31.279
that's taking a minute with sixteen million votes, thirteen million
522
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.680
of them mail in ballots, and then you know, sort
523
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.400
of a winning and losing, right. We're winning on data
524
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:42.480
protection and maybe on the federal data basis, and probably
525
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:45.440
on the Trump screwing around with the postal service, but
526
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:50.680
we're losing in maps, yeah, and jerrymandering. And I can't
527
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.000
think of anybody better to kind of sort all this
528
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:58.079
out for us in the post tale world than Democracy
529
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:01.839
Docket's Mark Elias, which we'll bring in after our break,
530
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.519
And he just wrote a great piece on Democracy Docket
531
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.079
about how klay the ruling in which the United States
532
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.519
Supreme Court gutted Section two of the Voting Rights Act
533
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.799
and said, yeah, but the last pin standing is intentional discrimination.
534
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:20.759
If you got intentional discrimination, come back to us. And
535
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.000
then two weeks later there was a case of intentional
536
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.599
discrimination in the Alabama mapps. They said, no, no, no,
537
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.759
you're not giving enough credence and enough deference to the
538
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.160
legislature who said it's not intentionally discriminating. And now Mark
539
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.119
pulls it forward and says he's starting to see in
540
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.839
his cases and in cases that they're using KLAI to
541
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:45.319
say any restriction un voting meaning voter suppression, any hurdle
542
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.400
that they put up before you vote. The only way
543
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:50.720
you can tear it down is if you show a
544
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:55.680
KLAY like intentional discrimination. So you see how already they're
545
00:30:55.720 --> 00:31:00.279
trying to benefit from the Klay decision. To our view,
546
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:02.920
that intent about that intentional discrimination. So I want to
547
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:05.279
bring Mark in so many different ways to support what
548
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:08.480
we do here on Legal AF. The YouTube channel and
549
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.119
Legal AF the podcast is we've got a YouTube channel.
550
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:14.240
That's what I was trying to say. Come over to
551
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.519
Legal AF YouTube got one point one two million subscribers
552
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:23.400
right now, amazing content, about a dozen contributors including Adam Klassfeldt,
553
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:27.160
All Rise, New Court, Accountability Action, and True North, along
554
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:31.119
with Lisa Graves and Alex Aaronson. Dina Dol is there
555
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:35.720
as well. And in addition, we have the new Monday
556
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:40.319
Night Live m NL Monday Night Live of Legal AF,
557
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:42.680
So if you can't get your filled Legal AF Monday Night,
558
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.880
that one's hosted by Dina Doll and Lisa Graves five
559
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.640
pm Eastern Time on Legal AF YouTube, and we have
560
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:51.599
Legal AF the substack. We come at all you know,
561
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.839
it's like candy bars. We come in all different shapes
562
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.319
and sizes for your for your viewing pleasure. I do
563
00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:59.759
a live report every day. I just did one today
564
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.440
with that them class Feld and we have this this
565
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.119
content like filings that you can read for yourself Unlegal
566
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.960
AF sub stack. And then of course we've got the podcast.
567
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.559
Thank you. We we oh, I can show it. We
568
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.920
won the Webbys and we I finally got them here.
569
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.559
They're in the back. That's what these coils are. Those
570
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:17.960
are the ways.
571
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:20.440
I didn't know what those were. They look great, I
572
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:20.960
mean I seen them.
573
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.039
Yeah, that is three of them, three of them. We
574
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:29.079
swept them for best News Podcast. And really that's all
575
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.480
because of your generosity of time and commitment to what
576
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:36.680
we do here. So keep the podcast afloat, listen to
577
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.640
us wherever you get audio podcasts, five star reviews and
578
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.960
comments of course, and then tell people about the YouTube
579
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:47.279
the YouTube versions. And then we've got sponsors and that
580
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.960
keeps the gas in the tank. Frankly, it keeps the
581
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.079
lights on. And uh, you know they're pro democracy sponsors.
582
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:55.759
They know what our show is about and they want
583
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.720
to talk to our audience. So let's take a quick
584
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.720
break when we come back. So so don't don't change
585
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.680
that dial. Have they got dials anymore? Legal a here
586
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.680
on legal app pock is mark Elias Democracy docket right
587
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:11.720
after this quick break. This episode is brought to you
588
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:16.599
by Iqbar, our exclusive snack, hydration and coffee sponsor. Iqbar
589
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.880
Protein Bars, IQ Mixed hydration Mixes and iq Joe Mushroom
590
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.680
coffees are the delicious, low sugar, brain and body fuel
591
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.359
you need to win your day. The Ultimate Sampler Pack
592
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.720
is a great way to try all Iqbar products in flavors.
593
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.559
You get nine iqbars, eight IQ Mixed sticks, and four
594
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:39.400
iq Joe sticks. All Iqbar products are clean label, certified
595
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:43.400
and entirely free from gluten, dairy, saw A, GMOs and
596
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:48.599
artificial ingredients. With over twenty thousand five star reviews in counting,
597
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:53.480
more people than ever are fueling their busy lifestyles with iqbars,
598
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:58.000
brain and body boosting bars, hydration mixes and mushroom coffees.
599
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:01.640
Their Ultimate Sampler Pack includes three. As someone with a
600
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.279
busy schedule, I'm always looking for a convenience snacks, hydration,
601
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:09.239
and coffee options that fit into my day and right now,
602
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.760
Iqbar is offering our special podcast listeners twenty percent off
603
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.800
all Iqbar products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping.
604
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:23.559
To get your twenty percent off Text Legal af to
605
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.840
sixty four thousand. That's Text Legal af to sixty four thousand,
606
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:32.039
One more time Legal af to sixty four thousand. Message
607
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.679
and data rates may apply see terms for details. We
608
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.199
have an important message to share from our friends at
609
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:44.119
Americans United for Separation of Church and State. The Trump
610
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:49.199
Administration's excessive Christian nationalist rhetoric is only building as we
611
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.480
move toward the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the
612
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.000
Declaration of Independence. AU is highlighting a case involving federal
613
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.400
workers caught in the crossfire. A multi faith group federal
614
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:03.719
employees filed a new lawsuit against the US Department of
615
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.559
Agriculture for violating the separation of Church and State and
616
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:13.760
the religious freedom promised in our Constitution. Americans United received
617
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:18.920
emails from multiple USDA employees saying the proselytizing Easter email
618
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.519
sent by Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rowins to more than
619
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.159
one hundred thousand USDA employees is an abuse of power
620
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.800
that violates the separation of church and state promised in
621
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.519
the First Amendment. They are absolutely right government employees signed
622
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:38.119
up to work for the USDA not attend brook Rollins's
623
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:42.960
Sunday service. The Constitution draws a bright line between personal
624
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.840
faith and government power, and this lawsuit says she trampled
625
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.280
right over it. Well, the hits keep on coming from
626
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:55.239
this administration, and Americans United is doing their best to
627
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.559
keep up the fight against Christian nationalism. If you want
628
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.719
to help, head to au dot org slash legal AF
629
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.440
to learn more about their work and how you can
630
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:08.719
get involved. Americans United supporting everyone's right to live as
631
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.840
they choose, so long as they don't harm others. That's
632
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:18.800
au dot org slash legal AF. And we are back,
633
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:21.400
and I'm wearing the same glasses. Is when I recorded
634
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.039
that I'm.
635
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.159
So glad glasses.
636
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.920
I collection, thank you very much. I was walking around
637
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.920
the streets of Philadelphia and I got stopped the number
638
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.800
of times, like Pope, walk just right. So we're back,
639
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:40.719
and let's get to our teaching about voting rights. I
640
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:42.719
want to make I want to look. We don't blow
641
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.800
smoke or sunshine on the show we never have. I
642
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.000
want to be I want to give honest commentary and analysis,
643
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.000
but I also want to give people some hope about
644
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.960
the voting day, election day and what people are prepared,
645
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:04.159
whether it's public interest groups and private lawyers like Mark Elias,
646
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.599
or it's the Attorney's General of the various States, democratic
647
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.199
and h and others uh N W, A, c P A,
648
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.800
c LU, you name it. How they are ready, have
649
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:18.360
already done tabletop exercises to get ready for the worst.
650
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:21.079
They've already thought of the worst. They probably have outthought
651
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.280
Donald Trump about the worst of the things that he
652
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.679
could possibly do, and they are ready for it. And
653
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:31.639
we're ready for Mark Elias. Let's bring in Mark Elias. Hey, Mark, Hey,
654
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.599
you as well, thanks to I know you were traveling
655
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.079
and busy in your court cases, but you know our
656
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.199
audience is thirsty for your knowledge. I don't know if
657
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.639
you know Lisa Graves. You guys probably bumped into I.
658
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:44.440
Do.
659
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:46.920
Two of our glasses are not like the other.
660
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.480
We'll leave it at that. And for the audio listeners,
661
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.679
so the look I I you know, I'm a voracious
662
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:01.800
consumer of all things on democracy docket. And if people
663
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:03.480
don't know about that they should be going there and
664
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.599
subscribing and helping marks and its cause and all of that.
665
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:11.760
But you know, why don't we talk about data protection,
666
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.639
the federal database that Trump's trying to use and the
667
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.679
post Office not delivering mail in ballots. We could talk
668
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:21.480
about mail in ballots because we're about to get a
669
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:26.400
ruling for the United States Supreme Court, which, for instance,
670
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:31.559
if they rule against grace periods, what's going on in California,
671
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:34.079
which is waiting plus seven days for ballots to come
672
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.039
in wouldn't be allowed. It is allowed for this election.
673
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.840
One of the reasons that they are methodically taking some time,
674
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:43.360
taking a minute to account votes in the mail in
675
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.360
ballot votes, especially in California. And you got the other
676
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.000
area that you're very active with where we're not winning
677
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.880
as much, which is maps and jerry bandering, including you
678
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.599
just posted in Florida where I live. You know the
679
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.159
Supreme Court, but Florida addiction. We're okay with a map,
680
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:05.480
even though it violates the Florida Constitution. We're not going
681
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.000
to enter a rent, which is totally crazy. So why
682
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.320
don't I turn it over to you? And you know what,
683
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:14.079
our audience ultimately wants to hear is my vote protected?
684
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:19.400
And what can I do to assist voter mobilization and
685
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:20.280
the protection of the vote.
686
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.559
Yeah, So the first thing to know is that Donald
687
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:28.079
Trump wants you to be so concerned that you lose hope.
688
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.840
And if you lose hope, he wins because then you
689
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:34.079
don't vote, You don't bother participating because you think it's
690
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:34.559
all feutile.
691
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:36.320
So we can't let him when we.
692
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:38.360
Have to understand that it is all of our jobs
693
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.199
to fight for free and fair elections. It is all
694
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:42.679
of our jobs to stand up for democracy. Some of
695
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:44.320
us do it in the courtroom, some of us do
696
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:48.119
it on podcasts and YouTube shows. Some of us do
697
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:51.280
it by calling our friends, writing postcards to strangers we
698
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.920
don't know, registering voters. But we all have an obligation.
699
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.119
What Donald Trump is trying to do in twenty twenty six,
700
00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.519
that is different, right, the usual voter suppression, election subversion
701
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.679
that we have become used to. That I became well
702
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:05.960
known for defeating Donald Trump in court after the twenty
703
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.320
twenty election for Joe Biden. Right, all of that is
704
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:12.880
still out there. But what is different is what you mentioned,
705
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.000
which is that Donald Trump wants to build a national
706
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:22.440
database of voters so that he and his administration can
707
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:25.199
go through it and remove the people they don't want
708
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:28.280
to vote, and then send back to the states a
709
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:32.239
list of who they believe should be eligible to get
710
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.440
abouot and cast a ballot. Now they have conscripted or
711
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.880
trying to conscript the states into turning this data over.
712
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:41.840
Some states are doing so. Many states are fighting. My
713
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:44.440
law firm and I we are undefeated in those cases.
714
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.280
Were involved in thirty cases preventing those voter files from
715
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.239
being turned over. We are so far undefeated. No, those
716
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:54.880
cases are now proceeding through the courts of appeals. The
717
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:56.519
other thing that Donald Trump is trying to do is
718
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:59.440
to try to get the US Postal Service to agree
719
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.199
that if someone is not on the list that Donald
720
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:07.039
trumpet his administration turns over to them, to the States
721
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.280
and to the Postal Service, that the US Postal Service
722
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:10.840
won't deliver that person.
723
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:12.000
A ballot or return their ballot.
724
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.920
So that is the new sort of scheme that Trump
725
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.719
and his cronies are trying to effectuate, and we're fighting
726
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.800
them in court. We've already sued them in federal district
727
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.519
court in Washington d C. That cases now before the
728
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:28.199
d C Circuit. There are other cases by the state
729
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:31.480
Attorney's General, the Democratic State Attorney General that are going
730
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:35.320
on in Massachusetts. So this is all going to be
731
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:38.280
laid out and played out in court. But what I
732
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:41.199
can't do, what I can't have is for people to
733
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.239
just say, well, the system's rigged and Mark will never win,
734
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.199
or the system is rigged and Donald trumpill always get
735
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:48.840
what he wants. The fact is we have a very
736
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:50.880
good track record of beating him in court. He is
737
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.840
a long history of losing these court cases. And so
738
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:58.039
while I have eyes wide open about the US Supreme
739
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.039
Court and particularly the cases that we're waiting to have
740
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:06.960
decisions on, you know, I have I have belief and
741
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.719
confidence that if we all do everything we can, if
742
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:13.159
the lawyers do everything they can, the voter registration groups
743
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:15.800
do everything they can't, the voters do their part by
744
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:18.239
checking a registration, making sure it's up to date, making
745
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:19.800
sure you have a plan to vote, you understand what
746
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.840
rules have may have been changed, and then voting.
747
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:23.360
I think if we all do that, I think in
748
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:24.559
the end we'll be okay.
749
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:27.480
Yeah, and on and on that at least if you
750
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.239
don't mind, I'll just I'll just kind of kick it
751
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.199
off there. I mean, Marx also being humble. I don't
752
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:35.079
know if you're ten and oh or just the whole
753
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:38.159
group opposing state data being turned to harmy Dyllan is
754
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:40.039
zero and ten I think are oh, yes, at least
755
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:41.199
right we.
756
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:43.320
Are we are we are nine and oh there was
757
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.199
one judge right in Arizona who didn't let us into
758
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:46.599
the case.
759
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.639
So we are we are. We are one victory.
760
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:51.840
We have not lost, but we are one victory behind
761
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:53.880
the total number of cases the days.
762
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:56.599
That's what I thought. And for those that you know
763
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.480
who who are kind of joining our democracy and progress,
764
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:02.800
and it's not something we often think about except when
765
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:08.400
we're here at this critical moment. The elections of federal
766
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:14.039
officers and the president was purposely get that regulation, that
767
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:19.000
process was purposely by our framers of the Constitution and
768
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:23.119
the founding given to the states because they didn't trust
769
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:26.000
the new federal government and the power of the federal
770
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.360
government to run its own elections. People may forget unless
771
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:33.400
they watched, like Ken Burns's American Revolution, how corrupt the
772
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:37.440
colonial governments were, right, and governors of states that are
773
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.159
now proud states of ours, but there's a lot of
774
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.679
bribery going on in there with the chief executive of
775
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:44.079
some of these states, and they were like, hey, we're
776
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.280
never going to have that happen again. We barely trust
777
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:49.480
the new federal government. We certainly don't want them running
778
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.920
their own election. So they divided the labor on purpose.
779
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:55.480
And what Trump's trying to do is say, no, We're
780
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:59.760
going to federalize federal elections and take that power away
781
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:00.840
from the states. Right.
782
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.760
Yeah, So the one thing people need to recognize is
783
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:08.159
that the states, as you say, administer elections.
784
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:08.480
Right.
785
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:10.039
So a lot of you out there are saying, actually
786
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:11.719
it's in my state, it's at the county level, and
787
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:12.159
that's fine.
788
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:13.920
States devolve the power down, but the.
789
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.880
Constitution gives the states the authorities at the time, place,
790
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:22.519
and manner of federal elections, only to subject to legislation
791
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:26.280
and acted by Congress. Now, Congress hasn't acted very few
792
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.119
laws in this area. The one law that people are
793
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.760
most familiar with is that Congress set a uniform election
794
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:34.360
day of the Tuesday following the first Monday in November.
795
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.880
But there are very few laws that Congress has imposed.
796
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.559
Its will on the states. The states administer their elections.
797
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.920
But here's the most important thing. The president has no role.
798
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.480
Like even where there is a federal role, it is
799
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:54.159
left entirely in the Constitution to legislation acted by Congress.
800
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.000
And so when Donald Trump says that he believes the
801
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:01.639
states are his agents for counting and tabulating ballots, something
802
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:04.519
he has said and something he has posted on social media.
803
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.760
That is wrong. It is a lie.
804
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:11.199
But it's also just constitutionally nonsense. When he says he
805
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:13.920
can issue executive orders to dictate what the states do,
806
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.719
that is wrong. It is a lie, and it is
807
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:21.800
constitutional nonsense because the only federal player, the only way
808
00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.599
that there can be federal role in these elections is
809
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:28.079
if Congress enacts new laws.
810
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:29.360
And Congress is not.
811
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:34.519
Doing that exactly. And so when I know we quake
812
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.519
in our votes when he talks about I think we
813
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:40.719
should federalize the elections. And then anytime I hear the
814
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:44.039
post office involved with my sacred right to vote, you know,
815
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:50.719
the entity that can't deliver my catalog or stuff's my stuff's,
816
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:55.400
my stuff's my ballot box, stuff's my postbox with other
817
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.599
people's mail, They're going to be responsible for deciding whether
818
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.199
I can vote or not in mail in voting and
819
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:04.840
mail in voting. This is the other dirty trick of
820
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.239
Donald Trump. You know, one of the greatest tricks is
821
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:09.320
to is trying to convince people, especially in his party,
822
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:12.679
in his base, that mail in mail in voting is
823
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:14.800
a four letter word and a dirty word, and it
824
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.400
means fraud. Thirteen million out of sixteen million people in
825
00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:22.559
California just voted successfully by mail in ballot. In states
826
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:26.880
like Washington, up and down the West coast, all they
827
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.400
do is mail in a dropbox BALLID. There is no
828
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:32.960
machine that you go for and they're not rife with fraud.
829
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.280
And so this whole you know, orchestrate I want to
830
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.280
turn to California now, this whole orchestrated attack by Trump
831
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:42.960
hoping people aren't noticing, but there's got to be fraud.
832
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.440
How is the right wing MAGA podcaster that I that
833
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:50.239
I endorse not winning the LA mayoral race? Like, are
834
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:54.119
you e fin kidding me? You got six thirteen million ballots.
835
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.119
They have a seven day grace period which just expired
836
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:00.679
yesterday to finish the count. Plus we have twenty or
837
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.440
twenty one days to check signatures. So It takes a
838
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.199
minute to open a ballot, double check it against the book,
839
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:11.800
and clock it in, and they're just doing it methodically.
840
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:14.079
I'm going to have Rob Bonta, the Attorney General lot
841
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.639
on Friday to talk about it. But what are you
842
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:18.920
picking up? Mark? And then I didn't mean to squeeze
843
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.239
leaz As out of this conversation. I'm going to ask
844
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.400
Mark in a minute, Mark, what do you think about
845
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.360
the blueprint that Trump's using against California? What we can
846
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.039
do about it? Lisa, you get into it, get into
847
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.320
a dialogue with Mark. I didn't mean to.
848
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.679
No, No, it's all good. I just want to say, Mark,
849
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:35.679
it's a real joy to be on this with you
850
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.159
and Popac and I'm such a fan of the work
851
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.440
of you and your team and the Elias Group and
852
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:45.000
Democracy Docket. It should be a must read, must subscribe
853
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:48.639
for everyone. And you know, I do think that you
854
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.239
know what we're waiting for on this Roberts Court decision
855
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:55.800
on how votes are counted. It really is extraordinary. The
856
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:57.760
three of us all went to law school, I would
857
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.840
say for me a long time ago, but you know.
858
00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.320
He and I were in law school together, right.
859
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.719
But anyway, it's the tried and true reality is that, uh,
860
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.559
you know, the post the postmark has been the traditional
861
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:16.039
way for litigation lawsuits, you file your complaint isn't on time.
862
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:18.719
The postmark has been something that could be trusted, and
863
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:21.800
now Donald Trump is trying to to you know, erode
864
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.599
and destroy that trust by having that be potentially manipulated
865
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:28.360
by the postal service that has no qualification in this area,
866
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:31.400
no skills, no training, and no proper role by law,
867
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:35.199
you know, by constitution or statute to do this. And
868
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.920
yet the reality is is that America has been voting
869
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:41.760
by mail since the Civil War. That nineteen for election
870
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.960
of Abraham Lincoln, the re election, it was a vote
871
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:47.239
by mail. And so now you have the Republican Party
872
00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.599
conspiring with Donald Trump in Mississippi to say that you
873
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:54.760
cannot count the ballots even if they're postmarked the day
874
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.599
of the election. And so, I guess I'm wondering a
875
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.360
what your thoughts are about where that case is going.
876
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:03.639
I'm very worried given John roberts hostility to voting rights,
877
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:06.400
as he's demonstrated over and over again as a lawyer
878
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.400
and as a judge, using his roles as a judge
879
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.079
to win what he couldn't win as a lawyer. But
880
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.840
also I'm very concerned about the fact that that case
881
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.519
could implicate early voting too. That's right up there argument.
882
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:21.480
So can you unpack that for us?
883
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.440
Yeah, So, first of all, I want to make a
884
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.840
political point that I think is implicit in some of
885
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.280
what you, uh, what both of you said, which is
886
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:34.800
that you know, mail in voting is not inherently better
887
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:37.800
for Democrats and Republicans. I mean, you know, Michael, you're
888
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:42.920
in Florida. Florida. Republicans gained control of that state largely
889
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:46.400
because they invested more in mail in voting than Democrats did.
890
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.000
So, like, there are lots of states where.
891
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:50.800
You could where I could point you to Arizona's another
892
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.840
state where Republicans had a huge advantage, and in Florida
893
00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:57.079
still do, I have a huge advantage in mail in voting.
894
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:00.159
So nothing partisan about this. Donald Trump decided in like
895
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:03.079
mail in voting because during COVID he thought it would
896
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:07.360
benefit Democrats because Democrats were more were more careful about
897
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:09.480
the health risks of COVID than he thought then the
898
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:10.440
Republicans would make.
899
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.559
But here we.
900
00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:15.000
Are, and you know, Trump and the Republican Party are
901
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.880
now in a war on every aspect of mail in voting.
902
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:21.039
They try to ban ballot drop boxes, they tried to
903
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.440
shorten the periods to get mail in ballots, They've tried
904
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:24.320
to disqualify more.
905
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:25.000
Mail in ballots.
906
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:27.519
And the latest thing is, you're exactly right. They are
907
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.199
trying to say that a federal law, the very federal
908
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.000
law I mentioned that sets election day as the Tuesday
909
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.119
following first Monday in November. Their argument is that means
910
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.039
that ballots postmarked by election Day that are put in
911
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.320
the mail before election a postmarked by election camp be
912
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.079
counted even if they come in a few days afterwards.
913
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:46.400
I know, if that doesn't make any sense to you,
914
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:47.679
it doesn't make any sense to anyone.
915
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.119
But that is their legal argument.
916
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:52.440
I have litigated this issue against the Republicans in state
917
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:54.719
after state, and we want and we wanted, and one finally,
918
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:59.280
the RNC decided to bring a lawsuit against Mississippi. Yes, Mississippi,
919
00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:01.119
which by the way, does not have no excuse mail
920
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:04.519
in voting. And I don't think they sued Mississippi because
921
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:08.239
they thought that, you know, there was fraud in Mississippi,
922
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:10.400
or because the elections were close they thought it was
923
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:12.559
a I think they brought the case because they thought
924
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.119
they'd get a hometown treatment, right, they'd be suing the
925
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:18.440
Republican State of Mississippi. Well, me and my law firm
926
00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:21.119
on behalf of our clients. We intervened in that case,
927
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:24.159
and we have been defending that case, essentially defending the
928
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.840
Mississippi law now in the US Supreme Court, and we're
929
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:31.239
waiting on a decision. You're exactly right that if the
930
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:35.800
Republican National Committee wins this case and we lose this case, Look,
931
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:37.880
they're going to say it's not just ballots in the
932
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:40.320
mail that come in after election day. They're going to
933
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:42.639
say it's early voting, right, I mean, they're going to say, well,
934
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.239
if election day means election day, then you can't vote early.
935
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:49.960
They're also going to say that you can't cure provisional ballots,
936
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.440
because after all, the provisional ballots are not counted on
937
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.559
election day if they're cured afterwards. And so this is
938
00:51:56.800 --> 00:52:00.719
just the first step in them trying to institute what
939
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:03.800
Donald Trump says he wants, which is in person on
940
00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:08.800
election day only voting, and that will disenfranchise lots and
941
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:11.760
lots of people. He thinks that if you disenfranchise all
942
00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:14.920
those people, it helps Republicans win elections. You know, this
943
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:17.519
is kind of an insider repoint, but if you look
944
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:20.719
at why it is that the RNC believes it have
945
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:23.519
standing in this case, go back to the original complaint,
946
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.840
it's because they said, we think that this will disenfranchise
947
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:30.159
more Democrats and help more Republicans. So, like they're pretty
948
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:32.639
upfront about why they're doing this when they have to
949
00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:35.599
do for standing purposes, But you know, we're waiting to
950
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:36.719
do with the Supreme Court rules.
951
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:39.159
Can I just ask you a quick fall upon that,
952
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:42.440
which is, you know, one of those pieces is that
953
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.559
Donald Trump I think went to court You may have
954
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:46.840
been on the other side of this in twenty twenty
955
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:50.079
to try to stop Pennsylvania from counting the ballots that
956
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.599
arrived early ahead of time, and so that pushed all
957
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:55.920
that counting to after the polls closed, like at eight
958
00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:58.639
o'clock or seven o'clock, whatever closes, and then there's this
959
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.239
surge when those votes are and not to claim he won,
960
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:04.480
but then it was stolen because somehow in the middle
961
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:07.039
of the night things changed. What change was those ballots
962
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:09.760
were counted. Can you talk a little bit just about
963
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:12.079
that component, because that's what's going on in California too,
964
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.679
this idea that they weren't counted that night and couldn't
965
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:19.199
actually be counted that night, that somehow this is a fraud.
966
00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:22.800
Yeah, and this makes my blood boil. I mean, I
967
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:26.079
gotta tell you. You know, the New York Times people
968
00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:28.639
wonder why people don't trust the legacy media.
969
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.360
They don't trust the legacy media because.
970
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:33.599
The New York Times, of all publications today, had an
971
00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:37.639
editorial in which they are basically critical of the state
972
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:41.880
of California and essentially mouth the same talking points that
973
00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:44.960
Donald Trump and the Republicans have been mouthing about California.
974
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:47.639
And if you think it ends and begins in California,
975
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:49.960
you are wrong, because in twenty twenty, when I was
976
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:53.079
representing Joe Biden and the Democratic Party in beating Donald
977
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:56.079
Trump in court more than sixty times, you are exactly right.
978
00:53:56.920 --> 00:54:00.719
Remember the stop the Steel slogan. They wanted to counting,
979
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:04.559
and the state of Pennsylvania took several days, the state
980
00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:07.840
of Arizona took several days, the state of Nevada took
981
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:11.840
several days, Georgia took several days. And so it has
982
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:15.159
been Donald Trump's talking point that we should not be
983
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:18.400
counting ballots past election day. And why the New York
984
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:23.079
Times would associate itself with this crazy argument against California
985
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.159
is beyond me. But here's the deal with California. California
986
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:29.679
counts slowly for three reasons. Number one, it is a
987
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.880
very big state with a lot of jurisdictions and a
988
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.079
whole lot of ballots. It's got a long ballot because
989
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.360
there's a lot of races, it has a multi it
990
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:43.000
has multi languages, and it's got a lot of jurisdictions.
991
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:47.159
Number two, as you point out, it gives people more
992
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:51.360
time to ensure that their ballot has been received and
993
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.800
that it is processed, and if it is rejected because
994
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:59.599
the signatures are deemed not to match, it gives voters
995
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:02.920
an upper to cure it by proving that, in fact,
996
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:04.800
it was their signature both times.
997
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:08.480
Okay, so that takes time. Now.
998
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:13.519
I have argued four years that states should not be
999
00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:17.400
doing that signature matching. In fact, I sued Florida years
1000
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.360
ago and I won. I sued Georgia years ago and
1001
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:23.639
I won because they had very high rejection rates in
1002
00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:27.639
that signature matching and Florida's signature matching program, though I
1003
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:30.519
still don't think it's entirely right, it is much better.
1004
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:34.159
The rates of rejection are much lower. So my answer
1005
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.400
to California is, if Donald Trump and the Republicans want
1006
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:41.440
you to speed up, let's stop the junk science of
1007
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:44.039
signature matching. And it is junk science. There is no
1008
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.920
court in America that would allow a person to testify
1009
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.519
whether a signature on one document matches the signature and
1010
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:52.760
another document. In fact, as you all know as lawyers,
1011
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:56.519
there's actually a federal rule of evidence that prohibits that,
1012
00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:01.360
that prohibits lay handwriting analysis. And I don't think not
1013
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:04.480
every state does signature matching. I think California should get
1014
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.199
rid of it. But why does California have it. They
1015
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:11.800
have it to satisfy the same right wing zelotz who
1016
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.639
claim that there's fraud, right, so they do this whole
1017
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.400
kabooki theater that takes all of this time in order
1018
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:21.320
to could contend with the fact that people say, if
1019
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:24.039
you don't signature match is going to be fraud, and
1020
00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:26.639
then they get attacked for taking the time to doing
1021
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:30.239
that thing. So, like, to me, this is something we
1022
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:33.159
need to stand tall and not give an ounce, not
1023
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:35.719
give an intro. You know the fact that the New
1024
00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:37.960
York Times, you know, thinks there's a middle ground here.
1025
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:39.079
Here's my message.
1026
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:42.119
I don't compromise with the Republicans because there is no
1027
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:44.960
middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist, and they
1028
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.800
are trying to burn down democracy. So every time someone says, well,
1029
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:50.440
maybe California can do it a little bit this way
1030
00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:52.559
or a little bit that way, all you're doing is
1031
00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:56.159
making Donald Trump's claims more effective. And it's not going
1032
00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:58.199
to begin and end in California. He'll be making those
1033
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:01.079
claims in all the other states as well.
1034
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:03.719
Right and using his well, he's not the US attorney,
1035
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:06.719
he made himself the deputy. Whatever he is couldn't get confirmed,
1036
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.199
you know, then declaring well, right on, cue, oh there's fraud.
1037
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.639
It's got to be fraud. We've opened up fraud investigations.
1038
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:16.920
And you saw the US attorney in California. The most
1039
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:19.599
shameful thing is what the hell is Clayton? The US
1040
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:21.639
attorney in the Southern diuition of York. He was on
1041
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:25.559
CNBC saying, yeah, he has concerns. I'm thinking, don't you
1042
00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:28.800
have enough bank fraud. Don't you have enough crypto themes
1043
00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:30.760
with the Trump family going on for you to be
1044
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:31.360
paying attention?
1045
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:34.239
What the hell are you opining about California?
1046
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:38.760
Well, let me use my prior life. J Clayton was
1047
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:42.639
a notorious golf buddy of Donald Trump and Howard Lutnick
1048
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.960
back in the day. The reason that Jake Clayton became
1049
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.679
the head of the SEC is because Howard Lutnick wanted
1050
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.519
him to be the head of the SEC. He really
1051
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:55.079
he They first wanted him to be Attorney General in
1052
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:58.639
the first administration. He didn't want it. He wanted SEC
1053
00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:01.000
this time around. He didn't want to be in the
1054
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:04.960
government at all. But when the when they left the
1055
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:07.599
US Attorney the once proud US Attorney's Office of manhattanan
1056
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:11.679
shambles after the Mayor Adams indictment and Amil Bovie. They
1057
00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:14.000
needed somebody, They needed some adult. And he looks like
1058
00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.840
he's from Central Casting, right, got the SEUs, got the voice.
1059
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.119
But he's a political hack and he got he They
1060
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:23.199
pushed a button like they do with Jeannine Piro. He
1061
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.719
just comes off less greasy. And he pushed the button
1062
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:27.079
and said, Jay, you got to go and see NBC.
1063
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:31.280
You got a shittle over California. Now, Okay, so that's it.
1064
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:33.960
A big log guy from New York or yeah, he
1065
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:35.760
was a big log guy from New York and he's
1066
00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:39.559
not suited for I think Boerman when he wouldn't leave
1067
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:42.639
the office, set out loud, I'm not gonna right, I'm
1068
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.760
not gonna leave the office until I don't want no Jay, No,
1069
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:49.039
he has no experience. He'll dismiss all of my all
1070
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:52.480
of my criminal cases. And uh he doesn't. This this
1071
00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:55.199
is he's a reluctant, war happy warrior. He doesn't really
1072
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.719
want the job, and they shove him out to do it,
1073
00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:00.199
but he does it. I'm not I'm not making any excuse, yes,
1074
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:04.000
Jay Clayton, whatsoever. And to Mark's point, for those that
1075
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.599
want to go to see the editorial board today, California's
1076
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:12.079
excuses are damaging faith in government. Here's the line that
1077
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.800
I'm sure this is where marks blood started to boil.
1078
00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:18.000
There's no good reason that California takes so long to
1079
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:21.800
count votes. Most democracies around the world count votes quickly,
1080
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.920
so do most large US states. California has since adopted
1081
00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:29.559
an approach to election administration without meaningful benefit and with
1082
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:34.440
substantial downside, it makes the state government look incompetent. I'm like,
1083
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.440
we need that right now now, I mean.
1084
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.159
And Mark's exactly right. The idea of signature matching is
1085
00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:43.199
not allowed in federal court at all.
1086
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.599
Look, look, look, look, look, if the penalty of perjury
1087
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:51.599
signature is not enough to make people yes, okay, as
1088
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:54.159
if there Trump wants people to believe there are roving
1089
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:56.920
bands of people who want to vote more than once,
1090
00:59:57.239 --> 00:59:59.239
or vote when they're not able to vote, and they
1091
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:01.480
want to go to prison for it, because we have
1092
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.559
a way after the election to go after the hundred
1093
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:09.360
cases out of three hundred million of people that could
1094
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:12.440
you imagine the prison scene, you know, a couple of murderers,
1095
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:14.800
a couple of you know other you know, what are
1096
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.159
you in for? Oh I voted twice?
1097
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:21.039
Well, the reality is right point zero zero zero zero
1098
01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:24.360
zero zero, maybe one more zero one? Right, yeah, out
1099
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:27.840
of hundreds of millions votes cast. And this playbook is old.
1100
01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:30.239
I'm old enough to remember the playbook when Carl Roade
1101
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:31.880
was trying to peddle it back in two thousand and
1102
01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:34.639
four and push those US attorneys to claim that there
1103
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.679
was voter fraud when there was not, when demonstrably there
1104
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:41.519
was not. And ultimately some of those US attorneys got
1105
01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:44.400
fired when Georgio Bush won election in two thousand and four,
1106
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.320
and they removed them because they wouldn't play ball and
1107
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:50.280
make these claims. But now Donald Trump has surrounded himself
1108
01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:53.440
with people in US attorney positions and the Civil Rights
1109
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:55.880
Division of the United States, with Harmey Dillon who have
1110
01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:59.360
no you know, no business being in those rules because
1111
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:02.320
they're not actually protecting our interests through just using those
1112
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:05.360
offices in an almost, in my view and almost Hatch
1113
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:09.880
Act violation like way to help Donald Trump's electoral ambitions
1114
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:14.239
and his ambitions for retaining power in Congress, despite his
1115
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.239
utterly thinking of popularity ratings.
1116
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:19.679
If I can, Mark, can you indulgence for a few
1117
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.559
more minutes? Of course, what did you what have you learned?
1118
01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:24.800
Because you're the one in the trenches, right, I hung
1119
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:29.320
up my spurs. What did what have you learned from
1120
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:32.639
the playbook being run against California right now by Donald
1121
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:36.280
Trump and US attorney and all the others. But because
1122
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:38.760
you know, you know, we're not AI, We're I. We've learned?
1123
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:40.199
What have you learned? Yeah?
1124
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.679
So I think two things. The first is there's a
1125
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:45.880
lot of attention right now on whether the US Postal
1126
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:50.760
Service will capitulate and cooperate with whatever scheme that Donald
1127
01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:54.039
Trump has. I am worried about that, and like I said,
1128
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:56.599
we're litigating that. But I the thing I think I've
1129
01:01:56.679 --> 01:02:00.719
learned is that what Donald Trump's going to do is
1130
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:04.559
say that if you are voting and you're not on
1131
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.119
the approved list, or you're an election official, and you're
1132
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:11.280
not disenfranchising voters the way he wants you to that
1133
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:14.679
right off the stage, like right in the wings waiting
1134
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:18.039
will be a criminal prosecutor, right. I mean there was
1135
01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:20.159
a federal prosecutor that was sent to observe the vote
1136
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:24.000
counting in LA I mean, why on earth would that
1137
01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:27.000
be the case? Like, why would a federal prosecutor be
1138
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.159
observing the primary vote counting? And I think that like
1139
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:33.039
what we were talking about about, you know, the Southern
1140
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:36.519
the US train for the seduction of York opining here
1141
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:38.559
and what we've seen from some of the comments from
1142
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:42.360
from the federal prosecutors in California and what we've seen
1143
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:44.599
from the Department of Justice is I think that we
1144
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:49.880
are going to see these these soft forms of intimidation,
1145
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:53.199
maybe not so soft that there is a threat of
1146
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:56.400
criminal prosecution if the wrong person wings, or if votes
1147
01:02:56.440 --> 01:02:58.960
are counted that Donald Trump doesn't want counted. I mean,
1148
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:02.920
I think Todd Blanche, you know, in some respects gives
1149
01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:05.400
away the game. You know, Pam Bondy when when they
1150
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:08.599
would say, you know, is Donald Trump misusing the Department
1151
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:11.280
of Justice towards political ends? She would say no, no, no,
1152
01:03:11.320 --> 01:03:13.639
of course not. And I think she did that because
1153
01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:15.880
she's like a politician, and you know, she's a she
1154
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:19.039
was a state attorney general, but really more political. And
1155
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:21.280
I think Todd Blanche, because he's a criminal defense lawyer,
1156
01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:24.639
he's used to having to embrace unfortunate facts, right, you know,
1157
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:26.880
like rather than telling the jury, do my client didn't
1158
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:28.960
have a bloody knife, he's used to saying, yes, of
1159
01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:29.960
course he had a blood knife.
1160
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:31.480
He should have had a bloody knife. Who wouldn't have
1161
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:33.800
a bloody knife? Right? And so his.
1162
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:37.119
Answer is, of course Donald Trump is having us go
1163
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:38.280
after his political opponents.
1164
01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:40.119
That's what the President should be doing.
1165
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:43.199
So I think Todd Blanche will be quite happy to say, yes,
1166
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:46.000
of course, we're of course we are threatening criminal prosecution.
1167
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:49.239
For people vote counting votes that we don't like, and
1168
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:51.400
that is a different level of shamelessness.
1169
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:54.000
How I totally agree with you. I want to go
1170
01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:55.360
back to I never thought i'd say this. I want
1171
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:57.960
to go back to Pam Bondy. He's doing things. He's
1172
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:00.000
doing things that would make Pam Bondy blush.
1173
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:02.440
I feel like you probably don't Blanche also from here.
1174
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:04.559
Yeah, I mean, and I know people that am friendly
1175
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:06.320
with Blanche and they don't know who they don't recognize
1176
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:08.960
this guy. Yeah, you know at all? I mean I
1177
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:11.119
did because I read that New York or New York
1178
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:13.360
interview where they were like, why would you leave a
1179
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:16.280
cushy white shoe firm and take on a single client?
1180
01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:18.960
Are you kidding? Why would I turn down the opportunity
1181
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.519
to make me his law? You know? And he's you know,
1182
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:24.199
he's been the bridesmaid three times. He finally got the nominee,
1183
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:27.000
finally got the nomination. He had a kid a step
1184
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:31.800
over the body of Matt Gates at one time was
1185
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:34.920
leaked as being right. She was leaked and nobody denied it.
1186
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.440
During the transition Aleen Cannon and then.
1187
01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:39.960
We also also wasn't Lee Zelden going to get it.
1188
01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:43.360
Oh then Lee Eldon and Bondi and then then oh,
1189
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:46.639
oh there he is. How low will you go, mister Blanche?
1190
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:48.719
Oh you're going pretty low? Okay, you got the nomination.
1191
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:50.800
Let me ask you though here at the kind of
1192
01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:53.199
wrap it up for us and for you and I
1193
01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:55.800
really appreciate the generosity of your time here. I know
1194
01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:59.840
our audience does too. Let's be a little hopeful here
1195
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.519
would do a lot of doom scrolling. How confident are
1196
01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:06.639
you that the combination of your law firm, democracy docket,
1197
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:09.719
the public interest groups that are shoulder to shoulder with you,
1198
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:13.119
the attorneys general for the Democratic states, and the rest
1199
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:17.519
are ready, you know, both long game and short game
1200
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:22.719
day of election and leading into election to protect democracy
1201
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:27.840
and to make sure our audiences vote is counted. Yeah.
1202
01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:29.519
So I think it's a three legged stool, and I
1203
01:05:29.559 --> 01:05:31.239
want to make sure I get to the third leg
1204
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:33.280
because I think you left out the role that you
1205
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:36.679
play and the role that progressive pro democracy media plays.
1206
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:40.639
But on the legal front, on the pure like legal front,
1207
01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:45.239
the private lawyers, the private the public interests efforts, the
1208
01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:48.119
state attorney's general. Look, I don't think you could never
1209
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:50.880
say that you are one hundred percent prepared. I've never
1210
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:54.079
felt like I am one hundred percent prepared for elections
1211
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:56.039
because they are operated at the local level and the
1212
01:05:56.119 --> 01:05:59.119
hyper local level, and there are always new twists and turns,
1213
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:02.239
and trying to track of everything everywhere is hard.
1214
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:02.559
You know.
1215
01:06:02.679 --> 01:06:05.239
Right now, my law firm of sixty plus lawyers, we
1216
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:09.360
are litigating eighty three cases in forty states, So like
1217
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:11.559
we are already stretched, and we will be more stretched.
1218
01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:13.760
And that is going to be true for a lot
1219
01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:16.440
of the groups that are in this space, in part
1220
01:06:16.519 --> 01:06:19.239
because big law firms have walked off the playing field.
1221
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:22.639
Like one of the most underreported stories right now is
1222
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:26.760
just how cowardly big law firms remain even now and
1223
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:29.679
how they refuse to be engaged in these pro democracy
1224
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:32.039
issues in the ways that they have been in past elections.
1225
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:35.000
But I feel but that said, I feel good, I
1226
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:37.599
feel prepared, but I'm never one hundred percent prepared. But
1227
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:41.440
I think we will win those battles more than we lose,
1228
01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:44.000
and certainly enough I think to protect free and fair elections.
1229
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:47.960
The second question, though, is whether or not the institutions,
1230
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:53.280
this is the election officials, the government workers, the civil
1231
01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:57.119
society groups that do voter registration and help people keep
1232
01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:00.400
educated about how to vote, like whether or not that
1233
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:04.719
process of people feeling confident in the election and feeling
1234
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.920
like they know where to vote, how to register, and
1235
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:09.760
that they turn out. I think that that is something
1236
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.840
that we have to constantly be bolstering and ensuring that
1237
01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:17.440
they have the resources so that voters feel like they
1238
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:19.360
can turn out to vote in that their vote will count,
1239
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:21.960
so that they go through the trouble of combating some
1240
01:07:22.039 --> 01:07:23.400
of the voter suppression efforts.
1241
01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:25.199
And that brings me to the third leg of the stool.
1242
01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:26.719
And this is where I don't want you to sell
1243
01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:28.719
short the work that you do, and it is why
1244
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.760
I started Democracy Docket in twenty twenty. It is why
1245
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:36.000
I do podcasts like this. It's why people subscribing to
1246
01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:38.480
your channel is so important. So, by the way, if
1247
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:40.920
you are watching and you have not yet subscribed to
1248
01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:43.920
Legal AF, go ahead right now and hit the subscribe button.
1249
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:45.679
Then hit the bell that's right in front of you.
1250
01:07:46.119 --> 01:07:48.599
That will make sure that you are alerted when there
1251
01:07:48.679 --> 01:07:52.559
is new content, which is critically important because content is
1252
01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:56.519
king right now in the democracy arena. You need to
1253
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:58.519
know when there are updates and one of the ways
1254
01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:00.960
you will do so is by making sure you are
1255
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:02.719
subscribed as channel and that you're alier to when there's
1256
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:03.159
new content.
1257
01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:05.920
And the reason why I say this, the reason why
1258
01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:06.519
I say.
1259
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.039
This is because the New York Times is spewing the
1260
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:12.360
nonsense that they do, and they are better than the
1261
01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:15.280
Washington Post, and they are better than CBS News, and
1262
01:08:15.320 --> 01:08:18.960
they are better probably than ninety percent of the other
1263
01:08:19.079 --> 01:08:22.039
news outlets. And so what we need to do is
1264
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:27.840
we need to have a vibrant, pro democracy, independent media ecosystem.
1265
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:30.760
And this is a win win. Like anybody who.
1266
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:33.920
Tells you, oh, watch this person because they're better than
1267
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:36.760
that person, No, we need to support the entire progressive ecosystem.
1268
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:39.600
We need to support all of the pro democracy news outlets.
1269
01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:44.640
And so everyone can start today with subscribing to this channel.
1270
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:47.600
You can subscribe to Democracy Docket, which is the news
1271
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:50.520
outlet I found. It puts out great news and information.
1272
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:53.920
You can choose any of the other pro democracy news outlets,
1273
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.279
or you could choose all of them. But we need
1274
01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:58.319
to have it because that is going to be the
1275
01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:03.920
place that keeps the public informed when the legacy media decides.
1276
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:05.600
You know what, we have an FCC approval.
1277
01:09:06.159 --> 01:09:09.279
You know what, we want to land an interview with
1278
01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:11.560
someone in the administration, So we're going to kind of
1279
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:12.239
both sides it.
1280
01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:14.800
Our parent company has government contracts.
1281
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:21.640
There you go, yes, oh, or your children or that Mark.
1282
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:23.800
I want to make this a regular gig. I know
1283
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:25.520
you and I committed the last time I came on
1284
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.079
your show to collaborate more. Yes, Yeah, we're going to
1285
01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:31.399
do it because, as you said, you and I recognized
1286
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:34.760
it immediately about how you just framed it that it's
1287
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:37.119
the entire ecosystem that needs to be lifted up. And
1288
01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:40.159
I do. I mean, I said before you got on
1289
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:44.239
that the way that I orient myself every day and
1290
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.079
from when I started this legal af gig is that
1291
01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:49.960
I consider myself an ambassador for my audience and a
1292
01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:52.880
fiduciary for my audience when I do an interview, when
1293
01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:56.199
I meet somebody. Lisa and I were just that net
1294
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.680
Roots Nation over the weekend in Philadelphia. Anything that I did,
1295
01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:03.439
anything that I said, was always in furtherance of our
1296
01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:07.760
cause here of protecting democracy and the rule of law.
1297
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:10.079
And so that once you have that as your pole star,
1298
01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:13.239
you know you really you don't go wrong and I
1299
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:15.600
think that's why people keep coming back to Democracy Docket
1300
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:18.800
and Legal AF and this show. So Mark a really great,
1301
01:10:18.960 --> 01:10:21.079
Uh what's coming up? Anything? We should keep it? Ony
1302
01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:22.319
Mak you should keep an eye.
1303
01:10:22.199 --> 01:10:27.199
On Supreme Court decisions right tomorrow and then between now
1304
01:10:27.279 --> 01:10:29.600
and the end of July and finally go next.
1305
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:34.039
Okay. I like all that, including the booze that rain
1306
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:36.520
down from the five hundred section all the way down
1307
01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:38.560
in my favorite you'll appreciate this, Mark. I don't know
1308
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:40.239
if so. I'm reading the New York Post because I
1309
01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:43.039
like the sports section, and the New York Post says
1310
01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:48.279
this is how they framed it. Donald Trump salutes crowd, right,
1311
01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:56.800
some some booze heard he brought his granddaughter as a
1312
01:10:56.920 --> 01:11:04.319
human shields. Such a coward. Okay, Anyhow, markaalized Democracy Docket.
1313
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:08.079
If you're not already subscribed and don't read him every day,
1314
01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:10.159
every hour and get that reminder thing, you're making a
1315
01:11:10.159 --> 01:11:12.319
big mistake. Mark, thanks for being here on Legal AF.
1316
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:16.960
Thank you, thanks well, thanks, And if you like what
1317
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.760
we're doing and the kind of content that we do,
1318
01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:21.640
a couple of things you can do for us. You
1319
01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.399
can become a subscriber to the Minus Touch Network, which
1320
01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:27.680
of course is are we collaborate and we stand on
1321
01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:29.520
the shoulders and might's touch and come over to legal
1322
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:34.760
AF the YouTube channel as well, where there we go
1323
01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:37.279
and set as Mark, I couldn't put it any better,
1324
01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:39.439
and no, I didn't put him up to it. Yes,
1325
01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:42.760
hit the reminder, but hit the bell and the reminder
1326
01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:47.000
and become a subscriber. We do twelve fresh videos every day.
1327
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:50.479
If you can believe it, you should. And then so
1328
01:11:50.560 --> 01:11:52.159
you want to become a card carrying member of the
1329
01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:55.840
Legal AF community as and we have some great programming.
1330
01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:57.800
Senator white House is going to be coming on with me, Lisa,
1331
01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:01.119
maybe you can join me for that soon. Rob Bonta
1332
01:12:01.239 --> 01:12:04.079
is coming on with me on Friday. Don Lemon is
1333
01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:07.000
joining me on Friday. Seeing these videos over the next
1334
01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:11.039
couple of days, I'm gonna be joining the Weekend Show
1335
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:14.720
with Anthony Davis for his this Weekend version. I'll be
1336
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:19.039
the guest on that particular weekend. I got Paul Blumenthal,
1337
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:22.760
a senior writer off BO and Sidney Blumenthal's son who
1338
01:12:22.800 --> 01:12:25.079
just wrote a great scathing piece. Maybe you can join
1339
01:12:25.159 --> 01:12:28.000
me on the United States Supreme Court. Uh, He's gonna
1340
01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:31.119
join me for an interview there. So that's the kind
1341
01:12:31.159 --> 01:12:35.399
of content that we keep coming. Substack Legal aff Substack,
1342
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:39.000
you not only get live reporting that I do and
1343
01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:41.880
bringing other people like Adam Klassfeld all Rise News today,
1344
01:12:42.119 --> 01:12:45.520
but you get filings legal filings, we call it Filings
1345
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:48.960
AF and you can find all the source material and
1346
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.680
become a member there as well. And then you know,
1347
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:54.000
of course the podcast hit the if you're not already
1348
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:56.880
subscribed there and on audio and video. And then of
1349
01:12:56.920 --> 01:12:58.960
course we've got our pro democracy sponsors. We're gonna take
1350
01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:02.800
another quick break for them now. Summer is always better
1351
01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:05.199
when you plan ahead, whether it's a vacation or a
1352
01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:08.920
family time or just staying organized, A little prep goes
1353
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:12.479
a long way. The same is true for a state planning.
1354
01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:14.880
A lot of people don't realize that a will doesn't
1355
01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:18.119
cover everything when it comes to protecting your loved ones.
1356
01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:21.159
Trust and will can help ensure that your loved ones
1357
01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:24.239
are covered when it comes to things like medical decisions
1358
01:13:24.439 --> 01:13:28.079
and power of attorney. As I've thought more about making
1359
01:13:28.119 --> 01:13:32.079
sure my family is protected and my wishes are clearly documented,
1360
01:13:32.359 --> 01:13:34.880
I've come to appreciate how important it is to have
1361
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:38.039
an estate plan in place. What stands out to me
1362
01:13:38.199 --> 01:13:41.319
about Trust and Will is how simple and straightforward the
1363
01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:44.680
process is. Their website is easy to use, and it
1364
01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:47.439
provides peace of mind knowing you can create a plan
1365
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.199
that helps protect the people who matter most. We can't
1366
01:13:51.239 --> 01:13:54.279
control everything, but Trust and Will can help you take
1367
01:13:54.319 --> 01:13:58.119
control of protecting your family's future. Go to Trust and
1368
01:13:58.359 --> 01:14:02.159
Will dot com slash legal for twenty percent off. That's
1369
01:14:02.239 --> 01:14:05.800
twenty percent off at Trust and Will dot com slash
1370
01:14:05.920 --> 01:14:09.800
legal af Oh have you ever actually looked at the
1371
01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:13.399
ingredient list on your dog's food after that first ingredient? Well,
1372
01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:16.239
good luck you. See. Kibble is made using extreme high
1373
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.680
heat to keep its shelf stable and inexpensive, so brands
1374
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:22.680
have to add back synthetic vitamins and minerals in the
1375
01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:26.119
form of strange chemicals whose names you don't understand and
1376
01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:30.199
definitely cannot pronounce. Is that really what you want? Your dog? Eating?
1377
01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:33.560
Sundays for dogs is different. They start with more than
1378
01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:37.680
eighty percent all natural meats and then finished with superfoods
1379
01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:41.399
like kale, ginger and blueberries and gently air dries them
1380
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:44.640
instead of using high heat. Sundays doesn't look or smell
1381
01:14:44.680 --> 01:14:48.199
like dogfood. It looks like high quality human grade jerky.
1382
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:53.079
No fillers, no nutritional blends, no chemicals, just simple, complete nutrition.
1383
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:57.359
Founded by doctor Tory Waxman, Sundays was created to meet
1384
01:14:57.359 --> 01:15:00.560
her high standards as a veterinarian and as a parent.
1385
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:04.279
And the best part Sundays requires no fridge, no freezer,
1386
01:15:04.479 --> 01:15:06.880
no prep, no mess. You get the quality of a
1387
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:10.039
home cooked meal with a scoop and serve ease of gibble.
1388
01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:13.399
It's what dog food should have been all along. Over
1389
01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:17.199
one hundred thousand dogs are eating Sundays, and the reviews
1390
01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:21.039
speak for themselves, especially from odors of picky eaters who
1391
01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:24.439
had never seen their dog get this excited about meal
1392
01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:27.640
time before. Like my lily, make the switch to Sundays.
1393
01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:31.560
Go right now to Sundaysfdogs dot com slash legal AF
1394
01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.920
fifty and get fifty percent off your first order. Or
1395
01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.479
you can use code legal AF fifty at checkout. That's
1396
01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:42.279
fifty percent off your first order at sundaysfodogs dot com
1397
01:15:42.279 --> 01:15:46.359
slash legal AF fifty. One more time Sundays for doogs
1398
01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:49.840
dot Com slash legal AF fifty or use code legal
1399
01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:55.119
AF fifty at check out. And since I cut that
1400
01:15:55.279 --> 01:16:00.279
ad earlier, this week, I have a second dog. Oh wow, Yes,
1401
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:05.520
we got a Lola to join the Lily because my wife,
1402
01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:07.840
because my wife decided a toddler needed a puppy.
1403
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:10.439
Oh that's nice, you know Lola. I always think of
1404
01:16:10.479 --> 01:16:13.399
the damn Yankee song what Lola Wants Lola Gets Yes.
1405
01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:17.520
And the great song by the Kinksks by the kings By.
1406
01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:21.319
I think, so, Lola, Lola, Lola is something we hope
1407
01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:24.199
my daughter will be able to walk because it's wonderful.
1408
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:27.680
Hopefully comes in at fifteen pounds or less. So let's
1409
01:16:28.199 --> 01:16:32.199
let's let's pick your let's use let's take advantage of
1410
01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:34.279
you being on the show with your supreme Court knowledge
1411
01:16:34.560 --> 01:16:37.159
for those who don't know. Great new book written by
1412
01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:39.800
Lisa Graves. The cover of it's right behind her head there.
1413
01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:43.000
It's called Without Precedent, Take Down my Words of the
1414
01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:48.720
Roberts Court. You know. And and Lisa has been sounding
1415
01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:52.640
the alarm about John Roberts since he at least since
1416
01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:56.359
he was on the federal the d C.
1417
01:16:56.920 --> 01:16:58.359
He was nominated to the d C Circuit.
1418
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.840
Yes, but he was nominated to the d C Circuit,
1419
01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:04.119
which is the training Academy feeder school for the Supreme
1420
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:09.079
Court saying no, you know, you, like Cassandra, nobody believed you, right,
1421
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:10.560
you right, you're yelling out.
1422
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:14.880
Somebody believed me because I did ask for there to
1423
01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:17.479
be no recorded vote on John Roberts, because I was
1424
01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:20.119
convinced that he was going to be the nominee, and
1425
01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:23.439
Cenerly he and Senator we let that go forward by
1426
01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:27.479
unanimous consent to preserve the opportunity. But but I'm not
1427
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:30.000
sure that anyone actually really believed me that he was
1428
01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:31.640
for sure, ging me the one I was convinced that
1429
01:17:31.720 --> 01:17:35.239
Roberts was going to be there, not mere.
1430
01:17:34.359 --> 01:17:36.319
The Trojan horse. And you've been you've been yelling out
1431
01:17:36.319 --> 01:17:38.960
about it for a long time. And uh, and here
1432
01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:41.760
we are. So we're at the end of what would
1433
01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:45.119
normally be the end of the term no mora oral
1434
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.359
arguments except for the emergency petitions and things which are
1435
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:52.640
still being filed or requests still being made. But the
1436
01:17:52.960 --> 01:17:58.159
traditional writ of cercerari and the rulings were still waiting on.
1437
01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:01.800
Here drips and drabs. They announced that tomorrow they they're
1438
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:07.359
probably dropping some opinions there usually by the middle of June.
1439
01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:09.640
Do they ever go later to the middle of June.
1440
01:18:09.520 --> 01:18:11.960
Yeah, they went right up to the eve of July,
1441
01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:17.479
that immunity decision, the fourth It was a July That
1442
01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:20.159
was a July ruling before the July fourth holiday.
1443
01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:22.560
Yeah, Jesus Christ, oh my god. All right, I forgot
1444
01:18:22.560 --> 01:18:23.279
that it went that late.
1445
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:26.560
All right, so usually ends in June, but the moment
1446
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:29.520
could continue to that first of July.
1447
01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:31.640
So the ones that I'm looking at that you can
1448
01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:33.319
you can weigh in on, of course, is the mail
1449
01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:35.840
in ballot, which is about whether there could be grace
1450
01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:40.439
periods after election day where votes continue to be counted
1451
01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:45.079
even if they're postmarked on or by election day, you know,
1452
01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:48.079
like when you file your tax return, get the stamp
1453
01:18:48.720 --> 01:18:50.640
to show up on the fifteenth of April, just has
1454
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:54.399
to have the postmark on it. Whether whether any states,
1455
01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:58.600
including Republican states, is grace periods are consistent with the
1456
01:18:58.640 --> 01:19:01.760
Constitution about set an election day or not. So we
1457
01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:04.159
got that one, which is Mark Ollias is involved with.
1458
01:19:04.199 --> 01:19:07.000
That's the Mississippi case We've got. We're waiting to see
1459
01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:13.119
birthright citizenship, whether Donald Trump can rip the beating heart
1460
01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:15.840
of birthright citizenship out of the Constitution by way of
1461
01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:19.840
an executive order. We've got the independence of the Federal Reserve.
1462
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:24.319
Can Donald Trump just fire Lisa Cook because Bill Poulti,
1463
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:28.680
who's now going to be our acting temporary, part time
1464
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:32.560
acting head of National Intelligence, because he posted a couple
1465
01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:36.239
of social media posts using documents he probably shouldn't have
1466
01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:38.479
had access to, cut and pasted them and said, look,
1467
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.520
signature's match on these two loan documents. She's committing loan
1468
01:19:41.560 --> 01:19:43.960
for all she needs to go, you know, is not
1469
01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:47.399
going to be allowed. And then there may there may
1470
01:19:47.399 --> 01:19:48.720
be some other ones that are near and dear to
1471
01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:50.399
your heart too. Why don't you do what don't we
1472
01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:52.119
do a little wrap up of what to expect because
1473
01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:53.640
some of these might be coming out as early as
1474
01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:55.079
tomorrow by ten am.
1475
01:19:55.520 --> 01:19:59.000
That's right there. This is decision month for the Roberts Court,
1476
01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:02.760
for the Supreme Court, and tomorrow on Thursday, there will
1477
01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:05.880
be some decisions issue. We don't know what they are.
1478
01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:07.640
They don't tell us in advance, and so it'll be
1479
01:20:07.640 --> 01:20:09.920
a surprised And as you mentioned, there are a couple
1480
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:13.439
of major cases that remain to be decided, including the
1481
01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:16.359
Mississippi case about you know, whether if your ballot is
1482
01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:20.199
marked is postmarked by election day, whether it can be counted.
1483
01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:23.199
This is in response to a federal law that actually
1484
01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:25.039
wasn't focusing on this issue at all. It was just
1485
01:20:25.079 --> 01:20:27.680
setting a uniform day of election so that it is
1486
01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:31.520
that first Tuesday in November. But no one thought that
1487
01:20:31.520 --> 01:20:33.720
that would mean that therefore you could not have early
1488
01:20:33.800 --> 01:20:36.600
voting or you could not have ballots counted if they
1489
01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:39.359
were postmarked in time. And you know, I think one
1490
01:20:39.399 --> 01:20:41.640
of the things that doesn't get mentioned enough about this
1491
01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:44.720
case is that a lot a lot of our service members,
1492
01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:47.399
people who serve in our military in the Navy and
1493
01:20:47.439 --> 01:20:50.600
the Army and Marines abroad, vote by mail, and the
1494
01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:53.680
Postal Service is the carrier of that of that mail,
1495
01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:58.159
and it does take time sometimes for the mail to
1496
01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:00.880
get to the United States. We know that Republicans have
1497
01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:04.600
targeted military ballots. We saw that happen in North Carolina
1498
01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:07.720
last year when the Republicans were trying to stop the
1499
01:21:07.800 --> 01:21:11.560
votes from being counted for the winner of the Northforlin
1500
01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:13.840
Supreme Court race. And so this is not new for them,
1501
01:21:14.199 --> 01:21:17.920
but it is I think particularly despicable to try to
1502
01:21:17.960 --> 01:21:20.079
deny the counting of the vote of people who really
1503
01:21:20.119 --> 01:21:23.720
do want to have their ballots counted and to do so,
1504
01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:26.039
to take the Supreme Court and have the court you know,
1505
01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:29.800
seriously consider this issue. By seriously, I mean, you know,
1506
01:21:31.159 --> 01:21:33.520
decide to take this case when I think it's a
1507
01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:36.399
case where they could have summarily reversed and said we're
1508
01:21:36.439 --> 01:21:39.560
not going to intervene in this election process, particularly in
1509
01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:42.279
the middle of an election year. But all bets are
1510
01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:44.920
off because we know the Roberts Court has been actively
1511
01:21:45.039 --> 01:21:49.279
aggressively intervening in our elections while elections are underway to
1512
01:21:49.359 --> 01:21:51.479
put their thumb or their fists on the scale of
1513
01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:54.239
justice on the side of Republicans. I think not just
1514
01:21:54.279 --> 01:21:57.560
because Donald Trump has wanted to change the maps and
1515
01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:01.640
create some basically cheat to get an advantage in this
1516
01:22:01.720 --> 01:22:05.439
midtrum election, but also because John Roberts has you know,
1517
01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:08.560
a multi decade and tipathy for the Voting Rights acton
1518
01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:11.239
He's joined in that by people like Sam Alito who
1519
01:22:11.319 --> 01:22:14.720
have been opposed to the apportionment cases and more. And
1520
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:20.079
also it cannot go unmentioned by me that if Congress
1521
01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:23.760
were to become controlled by Democrats, there would probably be
1522
01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:27.359
robust investigation of this Roberts Court. So they have a
1523
01:22:27.399 --> 01:22:30.239
self serving interest as they are moving you know, trying
1524
01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:33.159
to move the law to aid what the RNC wants
1525
01:22:33.239 --> 01:22:34.439
or what Republicans want.
1526
01:22:34.720 --> 01:22:37.520
Well, stop stop right there, because that's going to interest
1527
01:22:37.520 --> 01:22:39.760
our audience. You believe that when the Democrats, if the
1528
01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:42.720
Democrats get control of the House and the Senate, that
1529
01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:46.960
there'll be investigations of the United States Supreme Court John
1530
01:22:47.039 --> 01:22:47.600
Roberts Court.
1531
01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:53.720
Yes, because there were significant, substantial investigations by investigative reporters
1532
01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:57.159
that were thwarted by Republican control in the House and
1533
01:22:57.199 --> 01:23:01.520
the Senate. And so the full detail of the millions
1534
01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:04.720
of dollars of trips that Clarence Thomas has taken have
1535
01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:09.760
not been investigated. The tax situation that Senator Widen and
1536
01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:13.600
Senator white House have worked on to try to uncloak
1537
01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:18.000
whether Clarence Thomas ever even paid taxes on the benefit
1538
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.760
of that huge, you know, super expensive, six figure, six
1539
01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:25.000
figure RV. And there's more. There are all these trips,
1540
01:23:25.039 --> 01:23:27.000
there are trips that Alito has taken. There are other
1541
01:23:27.399 --> 01:23:30.760
controversies that have arisen because of the role of Jenny
1542
01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:33.960
Thomas in trying to subvert the twenty twenty election, including
1543
01:23:34.439 --> 01:23:39.640
she herself emailing legislators in Wisconsin and in Arizona to
1544
01:23:39.680 --> 01:23:42.319
try to get a fake state of electors put forward.
1545
01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:45.640
Then there are bigger issues, like we now know that
1546
01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:49.840
Clarence Thomas's wife accepted a five hundred thousand dollars donation
1547
01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:54.159
from billionaire Harlan Crow just weeks before the Citizens United
1548
01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:58.000
decision was issued, and he still sat on that case
1549
01:23:58.039 --> 01:24:00.560
of five to four ruling. He did not recuse, and
1550
01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:02.800
in fact, he had the audacity to write a concurring
1551
01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:05.399
opinion in which he claimed that if money is speech,
1552
01:24:05.479 --> 01:24:09.279
then anything that chills speech would be unconstitutional, and so
1553
01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:14.199
therefore disclosure rules would violate freedom of speech, knowing that
1554
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:16.720
his wife got a half a million dollar gift from
1555
01:24:16.800 --> 01:24:20.039
his billionaire benefactor on New Year's Eve of two thousand
1556
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:23.039
and nine, just weeks before that decision came down. So
1557
01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:25.680
there's a lot of investigations that need to take place.
1558
01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:30.800
For those that don't know, Lisa's not talking through her hat.
1559
01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:36.640
She's also the founder of True North Research in collaboration
1560
01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:40.159
and does collaborations with Court Accountability Action. Tell as long
1561
01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:41.920
as you're here, sell that a little bit, Tell the
1562
01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:45.279
audience a bit about what True North, why was founded
1563
01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:46.680
and what is it focus on.
1564
01:24:47.479 --> 01:24:50.119
Yeah, so I launched Tree North a few years ago
1565
01:24:50.760 --> 01:24:53.079
as a follow on to the other nonprofits that I
1566
01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:57.520
either led or incubated, and I named it in tribute
1567
01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:03.000
to Frederick Douglas's newspaper North Star. He's the great abolitionist.
1568
01:25:03.079 --> 01:25:06.800
He you know, wrote so passionately about human freedom, and
1569
01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:09.279
he's one of the men who signed the Seneca Falls
1570
01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:12.359
Declaration in favor of women's rights. And so I really
1571
01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.520
wanted to have a center, you know, a real North Star,
1572
01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:17.800
but I didn't want to obviously take the name of
1573
01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:20.399
his paper, and so I called my organization True North.
1574
01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:24.319
We're a watchdog group that works to expose corruption and
1575
01:25:24.359 --> 01:25:26.680
we've done a lot of investigations around the Supreme Court,
1576
01:25:27.199 --> 01:25:32.239
including around around Clarence Thomas and Jenny Thomas and Samuel
1577
01:25:32.239 --> 01:25:35.560
Alito and Moore. And we've also then joined forces a
1578
01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:38.720
few years ago with Court Accountability, which is founded by
1579
01:25:39.399 --> 01:25:42.640
Alex Aronson. We've co founded Court Helmiary together, but he
1580
01:25:43.039 --> 01:25:48.119
spearheaded that because we wanted to join that investigative work,
1581
01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:50.479
that exposure of what's happening. How do we get in
1582
01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:54.479
this mess with an exploration of policies and solutions, how
1583
01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:58.319
can we fix it? And so these two groups work
1584
01:25:58.399 --> 01:26:03.520
together to really help understand this crisis, this authoritarian competitive
1585
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:07.039
authoritarianism that we're facing with a Supreme Court, a Roberts
1586
01:26:07.039 --> 01:26:10.479
Court that really is out of control and has been captured,
1587
01:26:10.479 --> 01:26:14.239
as a Senator white House has described, captured by these billionaires,
1588
01:26:14.239 --> 01:26:17.199
a handful of billionaires, in order to roll back our rights.
1589
01:26:17.239 --> 01:26:20.279
And we are not powerless. We just they want us
1590
01:26:20.279 --> 01:26:23.159
to think we're powerless. John Roberts at one point, shortly
1591
01:26:23.159 --> 01:26:25.840
after your was confirmed a couple of years later, gave
1592
01:26:25.880 --> 01:26:29.520
an interview with c Span in which he said, people
1593
01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:32.199
don't like it. It's just too bad. Well, I don't
1594
01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:35.079
know about you, but I know the Constitution starts with
1595
01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:39.520
we the people, not we the court and the court.
1596
01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:42.800
This court was chosen not to interpret the law fairly,
1597
01:26:42.920 --> 01:26:46.640
but specifically chosen to be no more suitors, chosen to
1598
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:49.960
roll back our rights. And it's just intolerable what this
1599
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:52.479
court has done with the immunity decision and more, and
1600
01:26:52.560 --> 01:26:55.800
this Kalai decision and the Milligan case out of Alabama
1601
01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:59.279
where John Roberts handed the pin to Sam Alito to
1602
01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:02.479
use it like a dagger to destroy the Voting Rights Act,
1603
01:27:03.279 --> 01:27:05.720
an act that was purchased with the blood, sweat and
1604
01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:10.239
tears of thousands and thousands of Americans who risk their
1605
01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:12.760
lives to secure the Civil Rights Act and the Voting
1606
01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:16.199
Rights Act of nineteen sixty five to actually secure the
1607
01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:18.439
right to vote and have that vote be counted. And
1608
01:27:18.520 --> 01:27:22.159
so that's the origin story there, And as a consequence,
1609
01:27:22.199 --> 01:27:25.239
we pay close attention to the Supreme Court stocket what's
1610
01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:28.000
happening and also who's weighing in, because what's happened is
1611
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.159
that not only did Leonard Leo get chosen by Donald
1612
01:27:31.199 --> 01:27:34.239
Trump to choose the people that were on the list
1613
01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:35.840
for the Supreme Court to choose who got on the
1614
01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:39.119
Supreme Court in the first Trump administration, but he also
1615
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:44.760
is fueling a multifaceted set of interest groups, special interest
1616
01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:48.039
groups that are writing amicus briefs preach to the Supreme
1617
01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:50.920
Court in order to sway the law or justify the
1618
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:55.079
law as it's being changed. And these people, many of
1619
01:27:55.159 --> 01:27:58.039
them have claimed to be originalists. That's a term of
1620
01:27:58.239 --> 01:28:00.439
art that was created to sort of that they're just
1621
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:02.840
going to follow the plain language of the Constitution or
1622
01:28:03.920 --> 01:28:07.600
history suppose intent. But when push comes to shove, at
1623
01:28:07.640 --> 01:28:11.279
almost every turn, they ignored that, so they ignored the
1624
01:28:11.319 --> 01:28:15.720
fact that the Constitution specifically does not give president's immunity.
1625
01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:19.960
It has immunity only for one thing, which is for
1626
01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:23.520
Congress for their words on the floor. No meedy for presidents.
1627
01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:27.520
In fact, it's antithetical to our Constitution, which specifically says
1628
01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:31.760
the job of a president is to faithfully execute the law,
1629
01:28:32.079 --> 01:28:35.039
and nothing could be more faithless than filing that and
1630
01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:38.720
being engaging in criminal conduct through the official acts, like
1631
01:28:38.880 --> 01:28:42.880
pardons if they're given for bribery or to advantage the
1632
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:46.640
president or his family. And so anyway, that's a probably
1633
01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:48.199
too long of a summary of what we do. But
1634
01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:51.439
as a consequence, we're following these cases, including the birthright
1635
01:28:51.479 --> 01:28:55.640
citizenship case. Again an outrageous assertion by Trump that he
1636
01:28:55.680 --> 01:28:58.800
can just unilaterally set aside the language of the fourteenth Amendment,
1637
01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:01.720
which specifically says that if you're born United States, you
1638
01:29:02.239 --> 01:29:06.119
are a citizen. Trump calls that stupid. I call that constitutional.
1639
01:29:06.199 --> 01:29:08.159
If he doesn't like it, then he shouldn't have run
1640
01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:10.680
for president and shouldn't have taken an oath. You'll pold
1641
01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:13.720
this constitution. We'll see what happens in that case. There's
1642
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:17.439
a real debate about whether the Court will will go
1643
01:29:17.560 --> 01:29:19.359
along with Trump or not, since it's gone along with
1644
01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:21.880
so many things. But I would say to you, Michael,
1645
01:29:21.920 --> 01:29:26.039
that my concern is that there are no rules left
1646
01:29:26.039 --> 01:29:27.960
for this court. It's making it up as it goes.
1647
01:29:28.039 --> 01:29:30.119
And if it decides not to go with Donald Trump
1648
01:29:30.119 --> 01:29:32.680
on birthright citizenship, I think that will just be a
1649
01:29:32.720 --> 01:29:35.800
pr tactic that they don't need to do that. Given
1650
01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:38.560
everything they've given Trump, with the Kalai decision and with
1651
01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:40.800
the rigging of the maps or the attempt attempt to
1652
01:29:40.880 --> 01:29:43.239
rig the maps and make it harder for Americans to vote,
1653
01:29:43.439 --> 01:29:44.680
they don't need to give it. And they can use
1654
01:29:44.680 --> 01:29:47.439
that as a talking point basically say, look, they don't
1655
01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:50.479
give Trump everything, so therefore they're not out of control.
1656
01:29:51.159 --> 01:29:54.640
I think Charlie right. I think birthright citizenship they're not
1657
01:29:54.760 --> 01:29:57.399
going to They're not going to rip that apart. We'll
1658
01:29:57.399 --> 01:29:59.960
find that out, they'll leave that in the fourteenth Amendment.
1659
01:30:00.199 --> 01:30:01.880
I think they're not. They're gonna at least a cook
1660
01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:05.119
colder job, at least for now in the Federals at
1661
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:07.800
the FED. But these other things, mail in ballots, I
1662
01:30:07.800 --> 01:30:11.560
think you're in jeopardy, and and the rest and and
1663
01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:14.199
just let's let's end it this way with a hopeful
1664
01:30:14.199 --> 01:30:19.199
note about not just court reform, but the United States
1665
01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:22.680
Supreme Court reform has Do you think this Supreme Court,
1666
01:30:23.359 --> 01:30:26.640
by being so rogue and being so reckless about being
1667
01:30:26.640 --> 01:30:33.279
so rogue, has effectively invited the Supreme Court reform that
1668
01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:37.800
they so fear. In other words, you know, in other times,
1669
01:30:38.199 --> 01:30:40.680
you know, you'd say, well, we have to we have
1670
01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:43.039
to have a Blue Ribbon commission and got to think
1671
01:30:43.079 --> 01:30:45.560
about this, and you know, Joe Biden will all this
1672
01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:48.479
and that, Okay, aren't we sort of post that at
1673
01:30:48.479 --> 01:30:51.760
this point? Is do you think there's enough momentum that
1674
01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:55.560
if the Democrats get the Senate and the House, that
1675
01:30:55.600 --> 01:30:59.319
we can have real Supreme Court reform, including adding a
1676
01:30:59.319 --> 01:31:03.479
few more ceas, having a binding ethics rule, having term limits.
1677
01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.680
Do you think there's political will none, a public outrage,
1678
01:31:06.760 --> 01:31:11.840
voter outrage to give these elected officials the backbone to
1679
01:31:12.319 --> 01:31:16.600
do real reform. It is that the natural consequence of
1680
01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:19.000
this Supreme Court so out of control.
1681
01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:23.439
Well, that's exactly right. I think this court has the
1682
01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:26.680
Roberts Court has created the ingredients for its reform for
1683
01:31:27.079 --> 01:31:29.760
the conclusion of this period with a court that's so
1684
01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:32.960
out of control. We've never seen more members of Congress
1685
01:31:33.039 --> 01:31:37.840
embracing reforms. The public is even farther ahead in terms
1686
01:31:37.920 --> 01:31:41.720
of their embrace of court reform, of a variety of
1687
01:31:41.720 --> 01:31:44.800
reforms that would boldly address the way this Court has
1688
01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:47.920
has been using the judicial power in a way that
1689
01:31:48.159 --> 01:31:53.800
is contrary to how fair judges would behave. And with that,
1690
01:31:54.079 --> 01:31:56.960
you know, what we have is momentum, enormous momentum, and
1691
01:31:57.000 --> 01:31:59.760
that momentum in the next two years could grow and
1692
01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:03.279
be built upon, you know, through hearings and oversight by
1693
01:32:03.319 --> 01:32:05.479
the House and by the Senate, as well as other
1694
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:08.439
outreach in public education, because a lot of people don't realize,
1695
01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:11.560
for example, that Article three of the Constitution, which is
1696
01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:14.760
the section that specifically addresses the power of the judiciary.
1697
01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:18.359
It specifically says that the Supreme Court has jurisdiction over
1698
01:32:18.399 --> 01:32:21.079
a certain set of cases, like when one state sues
1699
01:32:21.119 --> 01:32:23.640
another state over a common river. You know, so there's
1700
01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:27.199
a battle between two states, but that Congress can set
1701
01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:30.359
the jurisdiction of the court in all other respects, and
1702
01:32:30.399 --> 01:32:34.239
in fact, previous Congresses have limited the jurisdiction of the court.
1703
01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:38.000
We have that power without a supermajority without a constitutional
1704
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:41.199
amendment in the Constitution itself. And of course there's no
1705
01:32:41.359 --> 01:32:44.960
number of justices set in the Constitution that has changed
1706
01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:47.680
over time over many years. It's been eight or nine
1707
01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:49.960
or ten, and the Republicans were more than happy to
1708
01:32:50.039 --> 01:32:53.359
have it be eight while they were blocking SKILLI at
1709
01:32:53.359 --> 01:32:56.119
seat from being filled and waiting to put Neil Gorsich
1710
01:32:56.119 --> 01:32:58.720
in that seat. So there's a lot of opportunity for reform.
1711
01:32:58.760 --> 01:33:00.960
And I would just say on the big picture, people
1712
01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:03.840
know that this system is broken in many ways, and
1713
01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:06.840
they recognize what this Roberts Court has done to voting
1714
01:33:06.920 --> 01:33:09.479
rights and the type of corruption that it has unleashed
1715
01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:12.760
through that immunity decision claiming that Donald Trump can do
1716
01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:15.479
no wrong in terms of criminal law in his so
1717
01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:19.680
called official acts separate from civil litigation, but actually to
1718
01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:23.079
break the law. And you know, people get it, and
1719
01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:27.479
there is just a real determination and an increasing understanding
1720
01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:30.800
that if we do not reform this court, we it
1721
01:33:30.840 --> 01:33:33.920
will continue to dismantle our rights and we will not
1722
01:33:34.079 --> 01:33:36.640
be able to have a new Voting Rights Act survive
1723
01:33:37.159 --> 01:33:41.399
the gauntlet of this Roberts Court's hostility toward our voting rights.
1724
01:33:41.399 --> 01:33:44.359
And this Court should not have the final say when
1725
01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:46.880
it comes to whether we can vote and have our
1726
01:33:46.960 --> 01:33:49.359
votes be counted. We're going to have to retake that field,
1727
01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:53.680
and the polling is strongly, strongly on our side. But
1728
01:33:53.760 --> 01:33:58.119
beyond that, the moral call to secure our democratic rights,
1729
01:33:58.159 --> 01:34:01.479
our rights on our republic is on the rise and growing.
1730
01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:04.560
I am very hopeful about where things are headed in
1731
01:34:04.600 --> 01:34:04.960
that way.
1732
01:34:06.239 --> 01:34:08.920
Yeah, and I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher it. But when
1733
01:34:08.920 --> 01:34:10.680
we were watching when you're on the panel that I
1734
01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:13.520
watched that you were on the Senator White House sponsored
1735
01:34:13.520 --> 01:34:16.760
by a Court Accountability action at net Roots about the
1736
01:34:16.840 --> 01:34:20.199
Roberts Court and Supreme Court reform. To the two Harvard
1737
01:34:20.760 --> 01:34:23.279
authors there with their new book Supremacy that's going to
1738
01:34:23.319 --> 01:34:25.560
be coming out, they'd be great to interview. We should
1739
01:34:25.560 --> 01:34:27.840
bring them on on legal layup. And I think it
1740
01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:30.920
was Alex that put up a slide of a comparison
1741
01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:34.640
between a quote of Abraham Lincoln maybe in his second
1742
01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:41.680
inaugural or first about first inaugural, about a democracy that
1743
01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:46.199
that seedes itself to the Supreme Court, compared to a
1744
01:34:46.359 --> 01:34:50.319
quote from John Roberts. Do you remember it? Can you
1745
01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:51.239
can you paraphrase?
1746
01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:57.039
Yes? The paraphrase was Abraham Lincoln contending with the out
1747
01:34:57.039 --> 01:35:00.680
of control Supreme Court at the time, led by Roger Tawny,
1748
01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:04.760
that issued the dread Scott decision that rejected the power
1749
01:35:04.800 --> 01:35:08.159
of Congress to create rules in terms of territories and
1750
01:35:08.199 --> 01:35:10.760
which state, which states would be slave holding in which
1751
01:35:10.800 --> 01:35:14.319
states would not. What Abram Lincoln said, and to pair
1752
01:35:14.319 --> 01:35:16.880
a phrase in that first inaugural address was that if
1753
01:35:16.960 --> 01:35:20.560
the if the people can side that a court, an
1754
01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:24.880
unelected court, has the final say on its rights, they
1755
01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:27.119
will cease to be We will cease to be our
1756
01:35:27.159 --> 01:35:30.760
own rulers. And then the contrasting quote was from John Roberts,
1757
01:35:30.760 --> 01:35:35.359
the c SPAN quote that I mentioned earlier, John Roberts. Yeah,
1758
01:35:35.439 --> 01:35:37.199
John Roberts says, if people don't like what we do,
1759
01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:40.399
it's it's quote, it's just too bad, right. And I'm
1760
01:35:40.479 --> 01:35:42.319
here to tell you it's not just too bad. We
1761
01:35:42.399 --> 01:35:43.720
have a lot of work to do, and we have
1762
01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:47.319
a growing number of allies and friends, both in the
1763
01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:51.359
policy maker world and across the country, organizers, activists who
1764
01:35:51.479 --> 01:35:56.199
understand the deep destruction that this Roberts Court is engaged in,
1765
01:35:56.319 --> 01:36:00.000
and that are who are determined to restore and expand.
1766
01:35:59.680 --> 01:36:03.800
Our great we're going to reclaim the democracy. We're gonna
1767
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:08.000
reclaim Abraham Lincoln and his criticism of the United States
1768
01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:11.439
Supreme Court, and we and we're going to we're going
1769
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:13.319
to march together. I mean, this is that we all
1770
01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:16.279
vibrate on the same frequency here. That's what Mark Elias
1771
01:36:16.279 --> 01:36:20.760
said about lifting up progressive independent media. You're on it.
1772
01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:23.199
You're you're at the epicenter of it here on Midas
1773
01:36:23.239 --> 01:36:25.479
Touch and on Legal AF. And I'm so pleased to
1774
01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:28.279
have met Lisa Graves to be able to call on
1775
01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:32.439
your your your talents both on the Legal app podcast
1776
01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:35.600
on Monday nights. If you love what Lisa Graves is
1777
01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:37.800
doing and and and what and how she puts it,
1778
01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:41.159
you're gonna love Monday Night Live on Legal AF YouTube
1779
01:36:41.239 --> 01:36:45.760
channel five pm Eastern Time. They take questions, they're they're unplugged.
1780
01:36:46.039 --> 01:36:48.439
You know, it's Dina Doll and Lisa Graves. And of
1781
01:36:48.439 --> 01:36:50.119
course to be able to pick your brain about these
1782
01:36:50.159 --> 01:36:54.359
weighty constitutional issues and have the great Mark Elias join
1783
01:36:54.479 --> 01:36:57.079
us as well. What a great treat here. Thank you
1784
01:36:57.159 --> 01:36:59.479
all for joining us. And we did a little bit
1785
01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:02.920
longer version because uh it needed it. You know, we
1786
01:37:02.920 --> 01:37:05.159
we wanted to do this teaching about voting in the
1787
01:37:05.239 --> 01:37:08.359
United States Supreme Court, and but thanks for thanks for
1788
01:37:08.439 --> 01:37:11.640
the generosity of your time, your spirit, and in the
1789
01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:14.960
case of our sponsors and memberships, uh, your your money
1790
01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:18.600
where that comes into play as well. You're on legal
1791
01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:23.079
AF the podcast, hit the free subscribe button here on Midas.
1792
01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:25.520
Come over to legal aff YouTube channel and do the
1793
01:37:25.760 --> 01:37:29.720
exact same thing. Set the little bell for reminders and
1794
01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:31.880
that bell will be going off twelve times a day
1795
01:37:31.960 --> 01:37:35.479
on legal AMP. But you will appreciate each and every
1796
01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:38.079
one of them keeping you out, informed and up to date.
1797
01:37:38.199 --> 01:37:43.079
So for Caaren Freeman mcniffolo who's traveling, Lisa Graves and
1798
01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:46.079
Michael Popak, thank you for being here on legal AF.
1799
01:37:46.119 --> 01:37:48.680
Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal A
1800
01:37:48.960 --> 01:37:49.800
efforts