BONUS: Dysfunction or Discomfort. The Boundaries Question with Special Guest Jen Stovall

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So full confession, when we got on the phone to quickly plan this episode, right, we talked for three hours.
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We did.
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My coffee went cold twice, and I had Elsie run upstairs.
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I'm like,"Honey, bring me a drink." I did do- Because- I need sustenance.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, no, it wasn't even sustenance.
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I need- It's because I was enjoying my cup of coffee with a friend so much that I was like Okay, so today we have the timer.
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Okay.
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A real one.
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Okay.
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Jenn, say hi to our timer.
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Yeah.
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Hi, timer.
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I, um, no, honestly, that three-hour phone call was just everything that I needed, especially going into the episode that went out.
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So, um, yeah, when something matters, we have a lot to say about it, I think it's, we've both experienced things that have really impacted what we're doing now with our lives and using it to bless other people and, yeah.
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Some, some things have never been said out loud, and they need to be to help us move on.
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Yeah.
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I think.
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Yeah.
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So.
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Yeah.
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We, we were just talking about it, beauty from ashes.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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And it, it gives The pain and the hard things that we've gone through purpose.
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Mm-hmm.
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Because it matters then to somebody else.
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They feel seen.
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Yeah.
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They feel like,"Oh, I'm not the only one." Mm-hmm.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Hi, I'm Nicole Bressler, and this is The Things We Don't Say.
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This is a bonus episode, and if you listened to Wednesday's episode on boundaries, I promised you this would be one that would give us a great how-to.
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So here we are.
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Today I'm with my friend Jen Stovall, a life coach, and she asked one question I haven't been able to stop thinking about: Is it dysfunction or is it discomfort?
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So one quick note before we start.
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You'll hear faith in this conversation because it's woven into both of our lives tremendously.
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If that's not where you are, you're still welcome here.
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And if you disagree with something, we hold space for that, too.
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We'd rather be honest with you than agreeable.
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All right, so meet Jen.
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Hi.
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Jen, I want people to know you the way that I do, uh, because you are always such a huge blessing to my life.
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Like we were just talking about words that you've given me that I have struggled through for years with my exit from church or other things that I've experienced just in our little touch points, that when I finish a conversation with you, it's gonna make me cry.
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I walk away from it, and I still think about it, like conversations that we had a year and a half ago that I'm like,"That mattered so much to me." Yeah.
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And I need to bless others with that, too.
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And so I'm thankful that you've agreed to be here, um, and, and to do just that.
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So.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Aw, thank you.
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Mm-hmm.
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That means, that means a lot to me.
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Yeah.
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I, I heard- I mean it a few things that you said in your last episode that we had discussed, and- Yeah I sh- I shared with you that as a life coach it really matters to know- Mm-hmm that what you're ex- talking and processing through with somebody actually lands in such a way that it mattered to them, and I don't know.
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Yeah.
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It just really encouraged me.
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I had tears.
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I had tears- Aw.
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Thank you hearing, hearing your last episode and knowing that we had a really good conversation.
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Good.
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And we are so excited to bring it to your listeners today.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So tell us about life coaching.
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Sure.
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Right?
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How'd you get into this, um, the difference between a life coach and a therapist, and what a relationship like that looks like.
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I found life coaching...
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Okay, so to be very honest, years and years and years ago, there was a TV show that had a life coach.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I thought,"What is that all about?
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Who...
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Is that just for rich people and the, you know, the celebrities?" Mm-hmm.
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They have a life coach to get them through things.
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To be really honest, I kind of downplayed it and thought it was a little fake to be- It's...
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but it's not, it, like, you always heard about therapists and counselors- Yes and not enough about this life coaching thing.
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So I, I heard somebody say,"Are you the type of person that gets into deep conversations with people, that people come to you for, for counsel-" Mm-hmm to tell their story, to, to say,'What do you think about that?'" And I realized that for most of my life, I've been a life coach.
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Mm-hmm.
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Really, purely, simply, it's discipleship.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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And we're called to do that.
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Uh, you know, uh, find somebody who knows a little less than you do and pour what you know into them.
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And then vice versa, I've always sought out mentors- Mm-hmm in my life, always.
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It was just something I naturally was drawn to, to always have an, typically it was an older woman, but sometimes it could be a peer.
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Somebody who's doing something in their life that I want to replicate in my life.
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Mm-hmm.
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And you just get next to them and say,"What are they doing?" Mm-hmm.
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"How are they showing up in their life?" Mm-hmm.
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And you just follow them in the way that they're doing it.
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So really, I like to say that a life coach, that you asked the question of what's the difference between a life coach and a therapist.
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Uh, therapy, I've been in therapy myself.
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Mm-hmm.
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I heard you say that you also have been in therapy since your 20s.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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It takes great courage to get to a point where you say, Life is what it is." It could be that you've gone through a hard time.
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It could be that you just want to know more of, why am I the way that I am?
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Mm-hmm.
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Or to process maybe an event that had, had happened- Mm-hmm whether in present day or in your past.
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A therapist is like an archeologist, that they come to the site of what has happened.
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Mm-hmm.
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They can examine, okay, let's just really unpack this.
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They get out their tools, and they, they analyze it, you know, what age were you, or what happened, and they just really dig deep- into the artifacts.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, pull out what happened, how did you feel, what age were you at the time, things like that.
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They go really deep on that.
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And they are examining it, because one of my favorite things to say is sometimes we have to go backwards before we can go forward.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so I have had clients come to me that I can tell they're not ready for a life coach.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I make a suggestion that they find a good therapist, I may even make a recommendation for a few, and go do some sessions with the therapist.
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Mm-hmm.
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And once you have processed through some things in your past that I am not- Mm-hmm a licensed professional to do, I don't diagnose, things like that, that then they would come back to me.
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Because I- Yeah am an architect.
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Yeah.
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And I'm able to say,"Let's get out the blueprints.
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Let's dream.
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What do you want to build?
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This has happened, now you're fully aware of it, now what?" Mm-hmm.
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"Where are we going?" Mm-hmm.
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"How tall do you want the skyscraper?
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Oh, you want it to be a little cute cottage by the lake?
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Okay, let's build that for your life." I'm using that as an example.
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But unless you really do wanna build a cute little cottage- Yeah.
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then I, I'm, I'm there for that conversation too.
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But the point is, what do you want from your life?
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Right.
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How do we move forward?
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We- Mm-hmm uh, we will, with a life coach, go treasure hunting in your past.
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That's what I like to call it.
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Yeah.
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Where, okay, that happened.
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Now let's look where you gained growth and resilience.
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Mm-hmm.
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How can we use that?
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Yeah.
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And how can we use that- Mm-hmm as a treasure in your future?
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But we don't stay stuck there.
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Now, I've sat with people on some hard things.
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Maybe they just needed a couple sessions where we are listening to the past a little bit- Mm-hmm to find out what it could teach you.
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Uh, but we don't stay there very long.
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We are definitely forward-moving.
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Yeah.
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I use a lot of metaphors for, for hiking or climbing mountains.
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In fact, um, my prac- Because that's you.
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Yeah.
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That's what you do.
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I do love- Yeah.
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hiking and climbing mountains.
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But my whole practice- Yeah is called Mustard Seed, uh- Mm-hmm Living, and it's about taking a small amount of faith and seeing what God will do to remove the obstacles, move the mountains in your life, and- Mm-hmm things like that.
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So that's the difference.
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I hope that answers it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, One of the things that we say with life coaching is when do you have- Somebody set aside 45 minutes to an hour to only care and nurture- Yes and to hold space for your stories- Mm-hmm and what's going on in your mind and in your life.
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Mm-hmm.
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'Cause even when you go to lunch with a friend- Mm-hmm there's a social cadence- Yeah, yeah of your turn, my turn, your turn- Right my turn, right?
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Right.
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It's not that way.
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Now, don't get me wrong.
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We, in our sessions, part of the growth is to be able to be transparent and to say- Mm-hmm you know,"I have this experience that I can pour into." But really, it's about the person.
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It's always about the client.
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Even if they start- Mm-hmm to bring up- Mm-hmm"Well, my husband, well, my neighbor, well, this situation, well, my coworker,"- Mm-hmm we always bring it back- To redirect, yeah to what is their agency, what is what they can control about that situation.
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It always comes back to a very simple themselves.
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Mm-hmm.
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So your client for a life coach is always who's right in front of you.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm not there...
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'Cause you're the one that's saying,"I wanna do better." Mm-hmm.
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"I wanna heal from this." Mm-hmm.
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And that is the beauty, and that's why you're going forward, and that's why I use a lot of analogies of hiking and mountain climbing or setting goals because I'm just saying,"I'm a little further down the path than you." Mm-hmm.
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"And this is what you can look out for." Mm-hmm.
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"This is gonna come up when you set a goal.
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This is gonna come up when you try to improve that relationship." And I can tell them- Right"Hey, it's gonna happen." Yeah.
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Like,"Here's the map.
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X marks the spot." Mm-hmm.
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"But you're going to get there."
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So you mentioned that, you touched on it a little bit, you usually work with women.
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I do.
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And you have a sweet spot though, don't you?
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I do.
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Of, like, the women that you like working with.
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I, I have found I've been working with women coming out of a, of a hurt- Mm or a crisis- Mm-hmm of relationship or crisis of identity.
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Mm-hmm.
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I don't know who I am, just kind of a life change- Mm-hmm that's been thrust upon them.
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Maybe they chose it.
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Maybe it was chosen for them.
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Mm-hmm.
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they kind of get lost in the middle, in the midst of it.
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"I don't know who I am anymore.
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I used to be this." Mm-hmm.
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"I used to think this about my family.
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I used to think this about my marriage.
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I used to think this about myself." And they just are thinking that maybe they've lost their purpose, they've lost their way a little bit.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I recognize that woman because I was that woman.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it was just five years ago that, um, wow, you get on the mic and you start talking to your listeners and emotions come up.
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But, um- Yeah, I know.
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I know it is y- it's therapeutic.
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Aw.
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Uh, I'll send you my bill.
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Or I'll send, I'll send you the payment later- for, bill me.
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Um- Aw but I just remember I had said the words, you know, out of, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
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Mm-hmm.
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I had said the words five years ago, uh, while we were dealing with a family crisis- Mm-hmm where I said to my husband,"I will never be happy again." Mm.
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I will never be truly happy again." Mm-hmm.
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And I meant it.
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Yeah.
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And what a sad place to be when we were on- Mm-hmm the seasonal change of empty nesting and- Mm-hmm just good days were ahead of us, but I couldn't see it.
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Yeah.
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Because you go from this, like, high high where you see and you have this excitement of the next chapter.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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And so I had unmet expectations- Mm that were, um, uh...
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You need to have tissues here, my girl.
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Thank you.
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Um, listeners, grab your tissues.
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Um, so I, I feel like what happens is you, you have a, y- the adrenaline was high.
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I was parenting at a high level.
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We were, uh, I was a stay-at-home mom.
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It was my life's calling.
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I knew who I was in that role.
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And, and then all of a sudden there was a shift.
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There was a change.
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Like I said, the, the woman who circumstances were thrust upon her.
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Mm-hmm.
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I know her because I was her.
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Mm-hmm.
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I started to believe the lie that I couldn't, I couldn't handle this.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like, this was too much.
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And when you repeat those thoughts over and over, part of what, uh, what I do is really I'm a thought watcher.
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Mm.
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And I learned this by l- learning what was the thought on repeat- Mm-hmm that I- Mm-hmm was thinking over and over.
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And it was things like,"Everything has gone wrong." Mm.
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I, I ruined everything.
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I'm a terrible, uh, fill in the blank." Mm-hmm.
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Um, and then,"I can't handle this.
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I can't handle one more thing." And oddly enough, during that season for, for our life, one more thing would happen.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then I would say,"Okay, well now I can't handle one more thing even more so." Mm-hmm.
00:11:32.293 --> 00:11:34.552
Because that would kinda weaken my resolve.
00:11:34.602 --> 00:11:35.003
Mm-hmm.
00:11:35.003 --> 00:11:37.582
And then I'd kinda go And then I would Another thing would happen.
00:11:37.592 --> 00:11:37.623
Mm-hmm.
00:11:37.623 --> 00:11:45.363
You know, we had some health crisises, we had financial crisises, we had, uh, something happen in our marriage that, uh- Mm needed to be dealt with.
00:11:45.363 --> 00:11:48.133
And it, it really is true that it was, like, all at once.
00:11:48.143 --> 00:11:48.163
Yeah.
00:11:48.173 --> 00:11:49.673
It all just came flooding in.
00:11:49.972 --> 00:11:54.673
And I made that mean that everything had gone wrong- Mm-hmm all at the same time.
00:11:54.682 --> 00:11:56.822
Yeah, you gave all of it a voice and, yeah.
00:11:56.822 --> 00:11:58.363
I gave all of it everything.
00:11:58.363 --> 00:11:59.023
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:59.043 --> 00:12:02.462
It became- So then it's on you and- Nothing has gone right talking to you.
00:12:02.472 --> 00:12:04.153
Everything- Yeah has gone wrong.
00:12:04.163 --> 00:12:04.192
Mm-hmm.
00:12:04.192 --> 00:12:11.232
And that was, that was the lie that I began to believe- Mm-hmm for about two to three years, and it was a dark couple years.
00:12:11.302 --> 00:12:11.623
Mm.
00:12:11.633 --> 00:12:16.623
And, and it happened to be during when COVID was happening, so there was already- So it's lonely on top of it.
00:12:16.623 --> 00:12:16.712
Yes.
00:12:16.712 --> 00:12:17.482
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:17.482 --> 00:12:19.352
And our faith base was re- was removed from us.
00:12:19.383 --> 00:12:19.952
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:12:19.962 --> 00:12:21.822
Uh, you know, things were different.
00:12:21.883 --> 00:12:22.013
Mm-hmm.
00:12:22.013 --> 00:12:23.082
A lot of life shifted.
00:12:23.383 --> 00:12:25.462
But two things can be true.
00:12:25.763 --> 00:12:29.403
That is also when I found my love for the outdoors and my love for hiking.
00:12:29.403 --> 00:12:29.562
Mm.
00:12:29.562 --> 00:12:36.312
And it really was that solace, that time to have a break- Mm from the flood of troubles.
00:12:36.533 --> 00:12:36.702
Mm-hmm.
00:12:36.712 --> 00:12:37.082
Right?
00:12:37.383 --> 00:12:44.822
And so I look back now, the way a good life coach can do, and I see the treasures- Yeah that were, were there.
00:12:44.893 --> 00:12:46.302
And that really is God's grace.
00:12:46.383 --> 00:12:47.732
Mm-hmm.
00:12:47.732 --> 00:12:54.312
It was just God's grace to give me this, this love and passion for hiking, and being outdoors, and, and kayaking, and- Mm-hmm being with nature.
00:12:54.312 --> 00:12:58.342
And I think it was just a little pause- Mm-hmm from the problems.
00:12:58.533 --> 00:12:58.923
Mm.
00:12:59.222 --> 00:13:08.222
It's amazing how God uses those experiences and, like we've been talking about, and uses them to then bless someone else.
00:13:08.409 --> 00:13:15.480
But also, when you're on the other side of it too, it's like the dust settles and you can see clearly then at that point, right?
00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:18.690
And okay, what am I gonna do with this?
00:13:18.740 --> 00:13:34.159
And you're able to put words to it, like we were talking about earlier, too, that here are things that I've been thinking about for so long, and one conversation with you and hearing it from somebody else in a different way is, oh my gosh, that's what it was.
00:13:34.460 --> 00:13:34.480
Mm-hmm.
00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:53.539
And so when we go to this dysfunction versus discomfort, I can even hear that in you sharing your story what the difference between- Mm-hmm I'm, I don't like what I'm feeling- Yeah but then also recognizing th- there's some patterns to what's happening, too.
00:13:53.570 --> 00:13:53.659
Yeah.
00:13:53.659 --> 00:13:54.080
Yeah.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.990
So can you explain that discomfort versus- Mm-hmm
00:13:58.289 --> 00:13:58.940
dysfunction then?
00:13:58.940 --> 00:13:59.309
Sure.
00:13:59.320 --> 00:13:59.659
Sure.
00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:02.000
Uh, so let's start with dysfunction.
00:14:02.299 --> 00:14:06.700
Uh, there's, there's a saying that says, you know,"We put the fun in dysfunction." Yeah.
00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:13.460
I think that is kind of a way that- It's very spicy to say families or workplaces try to make light- Yeah.
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:14.639
Yeah in some ways.
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:15.379
Excuse me.
00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:18.220
We try to make light of the dysfunction.
00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:18.470
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18.470 --> 00:14:27.200
In other words, we, you know, we're putting, uh, uh, a party hat on it- Mm-hmm and saying it's okay because that's h- how it's always been, and that's how it's always will be.
00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:27.659
Mm-hmm.
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.019
And so dysfunction to me is not fun.
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:49.620
Dysfunction is defined in a way of if I were to look at continuing in this situation or in this relationship exactly as it is- Mm-hmm will it still affect me or possibly compoundedly, uh, is that a word, compoundedly?
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:56.279
Uh, in a, over years, w- could it become worse- Mm-hmm if I leave it just as it is- Mm-hmm today?
00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:02.929
And- That's huge because a lot of times people are just in here- Yeah and don't even ask the question, could it get worse?
00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:03.240
Yeah.
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:03.679
Right?
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:04.960
A- At least I don't.
00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:07.909
I'm just, I'm a very knee-jerk, this is how it is.
00:15:07.909 --> 00:15:11.789
It's always gonna be like, but I don't even go as far to think oh, it could even get worse.
00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:19.200
It, it- Yeah could get worse because- Yeah unchecked, if somebody or, or an environment, like a culture, like you've been talking about- Mm-hmm
00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:21.340
goes unchecked, so let's just...
00:15:21.409 --> 00:15:24.460
I, I like how you said- Mm-hmm we need to be clear and we need to be kind.
00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:25.009
Mm-hmm.
00:15:25.309 --> 00:15:33.899
So I just like to go there and say, is there a chance, and this works out really great in marriage, is there a chance that your partner doesn't even know- Mm-hmm.
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:42.379
Yeah that what they're doing is causing you some distress- Mm-hmm some harm, um, that it's not healthy- Right for you?
00:15:42.509 --> 00:15:42.830
Yeah.
00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:46.889
They think they're, I'm doing air quotes- Mm-hmm they're just joking.
00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:47.549
Mm-hmm.
00:15:47.549 --> 00:15:55.669
But when you, as a child let's say, take that joke to heart And it becomes your identity, that is dysfunction.
00:15:55.820 --> 00:15:56.139
Mm-hmm.
00:15:56.139 --> 00:16:01.019
So if there's a j- a family joke that has put an identity on you- Mm-hmm
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:08.509
um, that down the road you will then take into your identity of who you are later in life- Mm-hmm that's dysfunction.
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.019
Yeah.
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.559
I like to say it like this, whatever we are not changing, we're choosing.
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:12.690
Mm.
00:16:12.690 --> 00:16:13.320
Mm-hmm.
00:16:13.350 --> 00:16:15.049
So nothing stays the same.
00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:15.500
Mm-hmm.
00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:20.759
If- Yeah if you just think it's going to just stay this way, it, it's not.
00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:33.909
Uh- Yeah I've seen it- We're all evolving all the time at the, at the analogy of two trains on a track- Mm-hmm and if you just alter that path, uh, e- even slightly- Yeah before you know it, they have gone in two- Mm-hmm very, very different directions.
00:16:34.210 --> 00:16:34.440
Mm-hmm.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.470
That is what happens even with growth.
00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:37.120
Mm-hmm.
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:52.230
And we, we touched on this a little bit, and I don't know if you wanted to get to it later, but sometimes the uncomfortableness that somebody has when you are maybe setting some boundaries- Mm-hmm is that you have grown, and they want you to stay on the same path with them.
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:52.320
Mm-hmm.
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.740
They want the train to,"Hey, this is how it's been because this is how it's always been because this is how it's always been." Right.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:58.279
But you are trying to do better.
00:16:58.580 --> 00:16:58.799
Yeah.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:04.720
Do it a little differently, and so you start to, you just change that little trajectory just a, a hair.
00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:05.200
Mm-hmm.
00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:08.095
Well, before you know it, over time people are gonna notice it.
00:17:08.095 --> 00:17:08.430
Mm-hmm.
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:16.569
"Oh- Yeah I notice you're not standing around and, and gossiping- Mm telling all the juicy- Mm-hmm tea with us anymore." Yeah.
00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:18.039
"Oh, I just wanna do better." Yeah.
00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:24.559
"I wanna be the kind of person that when someone isn't present, that they would know that I would hold their reputation- Mm-hmm.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:29.490
Mm-hmm in a very safe space- Yeah that I wouldn't talk about them." And people notice that.
00:17:29.490 --> 00:17:29.910
Mm-hmm.
00:17:29.930 --> 00:17:31.859
"Oh, wow, that..." You wanna know why?
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.319
Because they then have a choice.
00:17:34.549 --> 00:17:36.009
They can either do a little bit better- Mm-hmm.
00:17:36.009 --> 00:17:36.759
Mm-hmm or they can defend it.
00:17:37.059 --> 00:17:42.529
And that's where the discomfort, like- They hold onto their bad behaviors- Yeah if you will, because they do feel a little bit of conviction.
00:17:42.650 --> 00:17:42.980
Mm-hmm.
00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:48.119
And typically the one that howls out about it the loudest is the one that probably has the most conviction.
00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:48.730
Mm.
00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:49.849
And as believers, we can pray for them.
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:55.390
We can say,"Soften their heart." Like, let them- Mm-hmm be willing to change because what did we say just a few minutes ago?
00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:58.450
It takes great courage- Yeah to ask for help and to make changes.
00:17:58.539 --> 00:17:58.700
Yep.
00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:02.359
Great courage to make changes- Mm-hmm to choose a different path.
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:02.849
Mm-hmm.
00:18:02.910 --> 00:18:03.240
It does.
00:18:03.490 --> 00:18:03.859
Okay.
00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:05.069
So that is dysfunction.
00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:05.589
Uh-huh.
00:18:05.779 --> 00:18:11.089
Discomfort is more like this situation, this person is not my cup of tea.
00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:11.670
Mm-hmm.
00:18:11.970 --> 00:18:14.670
I'm, I can ask myself curious questions.
00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:16.730
Are they really doing anything harmful?
00:18:16.779 --> 00:18:25.609
Are they trying to hurt me- Mm-hmm with that- sense of humor, that, um, political joke, that- Mm-hmm just that way.
00:18:25.609 --> 00:18:31.839
You know, you have that family member that says the same story over and over because- You know, that's just who they are.
00:18:31.869 --> 00:18:37.109
They just, they have an audience- Yeah and you're like,"I've heard this story from Uncle So-and-So 20 times.
00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:38.299
Oh my gosh." Yeah.
00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:39.480
You need to walk away, roll your eyes.
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.869
Well, what if that's just their anxious way?
00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:42.799
Mm-hmm.
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:42.829
Their nervous way.
00:18:42.829 --> 00:18:42.839
Mm-hmm.
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:53.930
Like, I feel like discomfort is they're not somebody that you want to go on a two-week vacation with necessarily, but you're at a family function- Mm-hmm you're at a work luncheon.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:54.420
Mm-hmm.
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:56.069
Can you just love them?
00:18:56.190 --> 00:18:56.579
Mm-hmm.
00:18:56.579 --> 00:18:57.299
I, I just...
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.279
Can you just give- Yeah love, attention, grace?
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:01.329
Show them their worth.
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:01.579
Yeah.
00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:02.509
Show them their worth.
00:19:02.509 --> 00:19:02.750
Yeah.
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.759
You're uncomfortable, but they're not hurting you.
00:19:05.809 --> 00:19:05.910
Mm-hmm.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:06.369
They might...
00:19:06.670 --> 00:19:08.650
It might not be how you would carry yourself.
00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:10.039
Okay, here's a great example.
00:19:10.339 --> 00:19:17.680
You're in a, a Bible study, you're at a women's luncheon, you're at a PTO meeting, something like that, and there's always this person that...
00:19:17.980 --> 00:19:18.509
I'm laughing.
00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:18.859
Yeah.
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:21.309
That monopolizes the conversation.
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:21.690
Yes.
00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:22.269
Yeah.
00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:29.509
That they- Yep they fill the room- Yep with their ideas and their stories and, and- Mm-hmm and they don't really leave any space for anyone else.
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:29.980
Mm-hmm.
00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:31.559
Nicole, that drives me crazy.
00:19:31.569 --> 00:19:31.849
Yeah.
00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:41.950
Like, I get in a room with someone like that and I wanna shut down immediately, and I have learned to just try to be that person that is thinking, What if they're just really lonely?
00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:42.359
Yeah.
00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:48.829
You're uncomfortable with their, their way- Yes about life, but they still deserve the love, the dignity, the respect.
00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:49.299
Yeah.
00:19:49.299 --> 00:19:52.960
Uh, so the difference, the difference is dysfunction is gonna happen.
00:19:53.029 --> 00:19:58.230
It's going to affect you, possibly hurt you or harm you long term- Mm-hmm if, if unchecked.
00:19:58.359 --> 00:19:58.720
Mm-hmm.
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.720
Discomfort, you're probably not gonna think much about it until the next time you're with- Yeah
00:20:03.869 --> 00:20:06.690
that person or the next time you're with something like it.
00:20:06.789 --> 00:20:07.049
Yeah.
00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:07.970
It's just uncomfortable.
00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:14.559
It, it just, it's bumping into your, uh, way that you would do life and- Mm-hmm through life.
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:23.490
Um- so sometimes that discomfort of, like, that could be the first feeling that we get is- Yeah hey, something's kinda off here.
00:20:23.539 --> 00:20:23.769
Yep.
00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:30.230
And then there has to be that- Yeah you, you experience the pattern enough to realize, oh, wait a minute.
00:20:30.230 --> 00:20:33.599
No, this is, this is definitely not how it's supposed to be.
00:20:33.630 --> 00:20:39.490
And- Yeah and for me, in different communities, I could feel myself shrinking.
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:39.880
Mm-hmm.
00:20:40.069 --> 00:20:48.519
And I know, and this is very, introspective through the years, that I do have a valuable voice.
00:20:48.819 --> 00:21:02.769
Um, I know just because I love being around people so much and that I went into counseling and the feedback that I get or feedback even now from the podcast that my voice matters to people.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:13.130
And so when I felt myself starting to hold it back and not knowing when I could be comfortable or be myself, hey, something's wrong.
00:21:13.130 --> 00:21:20.630
Because God gave me this, me, to use to be His church to other people.
00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:30.509
And to n- to have that, to be in a place where that felt shrunk- Mm was, wait a minute, there, there's something clearly here that we need to do.
00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.029
There, there needs to be a boundary, right?
00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:38.559
So- And sometimes people can thrive in a different environment than you.
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:39.259
Mm-hmm.
00:21:39.259 --> 00:21:46.720
And so when you see- Yeah, that's a good point other people not having the same feelings of discomfort, we want to make ourselves wrong for that.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.250
Yeah.
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.160
Well, and that- Why are we so quick to do that?
00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:50.269
Well, and I wanna...
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:52.809
We talked about this in our three-hour conversation, right?
00:21:52.819 --> 00:21:52.839
Yeah.
00:21:53.089 --> 00:21:53.839
The shame.
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:54.329
Yeah.
00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:58.900
And that, and that's where I- Yeah was something else that put the words to it.
00:21:58.910 --> 00:21:59.750
Oh, I...
00:21:59.779 --> 00:22:00.839
It's like I felt...
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:08.230
I never felt ashamed of, um, the people that Trey and I try to be and emulate for our kids.
00:22:08.230 --> 00:22:09.410
I was never ashamed of that.
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:14.250
It was this, um, voice of,"Well, it's not, it's not good enough." Mm-hmm.
00:22:14.250 --> 00:22:17.160
And, um- Mm-hmm but the shame.
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:17.230
Yeah.
00:22:17.230 --> 00:22:23.319
Yeah, like- Whenever I hear myself say, I should," on repeat.
00:22:23.349 --> 00:22:26.200
I'm not talking just a one-off- Mm-hmm I should eat healthier.
00:22:26.210 --> 00:22:27.230
Uh, that's not what I'm talking about.
00:22:27.529 --> 00:22:31.240
I'm talking about an, a repeated, I should be more like- Mm a team...
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:32.369
I should be a better team player.
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:33.779
Yeah, that comparison game.
00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:34.092
I should have let it go with this.
00:22:34.092 --> 00:22:34.170
Mm-hmm.
00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:34.940
I, I should...
00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:36.680
I, I shouldn't let that bother me.
00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:37.960
Oh, I'm being too sensitive.
00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:39.930
Oh, you know, all of those- Mm-hmm kind of things.
00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:42.470
I think what happens is one of two things.
00:22:42.569 --> 00:22:46.359
We don't recognize that that is shame sneaking in.
00:22:46.369 --> 00:22:46.789
Mm-hmm.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:50.819
Whenever we hear I should or you should or they, even they should.
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:51.109
Mm-hmm.
00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:51.890
That's sort of a shame...
00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:53.710
I, I heard your George Bush example.
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.029
Oh, yeah.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.859
So sometimes we don't wanna say shame on, shame on me, um, but we do say shame on them.
00:22:59.160 --> 00:22:59.769
Yeah.
00:22:59.779 --> 00:23:00.950
If I were in charge- Yeah, we make...
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.839
Yeah if I were making the decisions- Mm-hmm and it, it sneaks in, like- Mm-hmm oh, they should've done it this way.
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:07.220
Mm-hmm.
00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:08.160
They should've done this.
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:08.480
They...
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:09.359
Fill in the blank, right?
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:09.640
Yeah.
00:23:09.859 --> 00:23:10.859
That's shame.
00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:12.559
Shame is right there.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.509
They, they are, they go bowling together.
00:23:14.509 --> 00:23:16.700
They are- Mm-hmm close, you know, close friends.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.140
Mm-hmm.
00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:18.220
They are ladies who lunch.
00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:18.950
Shame and should.
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:19.430
Yeah.
00:23:19.430 --> 00:23:29.119
And so when you hear those, we are either heaping a bunch of shame on ourself for not being a different version of who we are, and then we're also heaping a lot on other people, too.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:34.779
And I find that when I'm in a shame spiral in my own life, I find that I also do that to other people.
00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:35.299
Mm.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:41.089
And so whenever I meet with a woman, I try to find out what is the voice, what is the, the tape.
00:23:41.230 --> 00:23:41.759
Mm-hmm.
00:23:41.859 --> 00:23:47.269
When you find out what she is telling, or, or a, a male, w-'cause men do this a lot too.
00:23:47.349 --> 00:23:48.140
Mm-hmm.
00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:49.509
They do shame, they do shame spirals a lot too.
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:51.440
But what are you telling yourself on repeat?
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.529
That's where you get down to what are you really believing- Mm-hmm about yourself.
00:23:55.609 --> 00:23:56.119
Mm-hmm.
00:23:56.180 --> 00:24:01.230
And when you get down to what you're really believing about yourself- Mm-hmm that's where the growth can really begin.
00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:01.420
Yeah.
00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:05.690
Because then you're able to strip away- Yes all of the, the shoulds that...
00:24:05.769 --> 00:24:10.720
'Cause mostly it's the shoulds that you're telling- Mm-hmm yourself, and I'm sure you've heard it said,"Don't should on yourself." Mm.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:11.039
But don't.
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:11.549
Mm-hmm.
00:24:11.549 --> 00:24:13.390
Don't do it, but also don't should on others.
00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:13.930
Mm-hmm.
00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:17.720
Can we hold space for people to just be exactly who they are right now?
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:17.819
Mm-hmm.
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:18.190
Mm-hmm.
00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:27.339
And- And I think part of it, you have to get to that point of, um, like I, I led into the boundaries episode talking about healthy culture, and obviously this was in these different places.
00:24:27.349 --> 00:24:33.519
The one into that was identity, and it's so important then to go back and see who is, who is telling you that?
00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:33.549
Yeah.
00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:35.210
Where are you hearing this?
00:24:35.289 --> 00:24:35.500
That's good.
00:24:35.660 --> 00:24:35.930
That's good.
00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:36.549
Yeah.
00:24:36.849 --> 00:24:44.299
No, I- Mm the way that I explain it typically is that- So first, I actually don't use the word boundaries very often.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.000
Oh, right.
00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:45.440
Yeah.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:46.079
Yeah, you were saying that.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:53.859
And so, uh, interestingly enough, when I started my healing journey, uh, I did not like the word boundaries.
00:24:53.859 --> 00:24:53.980
Mm.
00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:56.200
I was actually offended by the word boundaries.
00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:56.339
Mm.
00:24:56.349 --> 00:24:58.170
When people would say boundaries, I...
00:24:58.339 --> 00:25:01.849
You spoke in your last episode about sometimes people see boundaries as a punishment.
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:02.460
Mm-hmm.
00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:06.730
I s- I, I was, me- Mm-hmm I'm raising my hand, uh, that was me.
00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:11.259
I heard the word boundaries, and it was, it was,"Well, what did I do wrong to deserve this?" Mm-hmm.
00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:21.829
Making it all about myself i- in that you're asking a, you know, a, a different version of our relationship that I haven't been accustomed to.
00:25:21.869 --> 00:25:22.279
Mm-hmm.
00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:22.599
Right?
00:25:22.900 --> 00:25:23.079
Mm-hmm.
00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:25.119
And, and there's ways to do it.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.539
I love that you do say,"Let's be kind.
00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:28.880
Let's be clear." Mm-hmm.
00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:37.799
And I do love that you are saying something that I think is counterculture- Mm in that you're saying that boundaries are to keep people in your life.
00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:38.259
Mm-hmm.
00:25:38.259 --> 00:25:38.640
Mm-hmm.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:44.849
Even if it's just temporarily a pause of access, I love that you said the keys haven't been thrown away.
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:45.470
Mm-hmm.
00:25:45.470 --> 00:25:49.180
You know, you used the example of the wall and, and that is all very true.
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:57.319
But I think there has been a wave in our culture, in modern-day culture, I would say over the last decade, of boundaries are a punishment.
00:25:57.400 --> 00:25:57.769
Mm.
00:25:57.819 --> 00:26:02.410
That people, it's almost like a power that people didn't know how to wield- Mm-hmm correctly.
00:26:02.710 --> 00:26:04.240
And that's what I think we're trying to talk about.
00:26:04.329 --> 00:26:04.559
Yeah.
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.200
I think that's what we are trying to have a different discussion about it.
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:07.539
Mm-hmm.
00:26:07.539 --> 00:26:10.220
I do wanna go back, um,'cause I did write some notes.
00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:12.890
You had asked about discomfort versus dysfunction.
00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:12.970
Mm-hmm.
00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:16.960
So I wanna go back and just give some, some- Yeah voice to it- Go for it real quick.
00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:22.539
Discomfort might sound like, This is hard, but it may be good for me." Mm-hmm.
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:31.430
So for example, if you have, if you wake up one day on a Monday, it's usually a Monday, it's even double bonus points if it's a Monday- and the first day of the month.
00:26:31.730 --> 00:26:37.589
Um, if it's a Monday, the first day of the month, and the first day, month of the year, it's January 1st, you know?
00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:39.529
But let's say we set a health goal.
00:26:39.619 --> 00:26:40.109
Mm-hmm.
00:26:40.410 --> 00:26:44.400
The health goal is I'm not gonna eat processed foods and sugar.
00:26:44.410 --> 00:26:44.440
Mm-hmm.
00:26:44.529 --> 00:26:44.890
Right?
00:26:45.190 --> 00:26:51.660
What's going to happen, either by the end of that day or at least by day three, is you're gonna feel a lot of discomfort.
00:26:51.670 --> 00:26:52.109
Mm-hmm.
00:26:52.130 --> 00:26:54.650
So that's an example of this is hard.
00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:59.519
This is hard not to have, fill in the blank- Mm-hmm that you're trying to now not have in your life.
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:01.210
This is hard, but it may be good for me.
00:27:01.420 --> 00:27:01.650
Mm-hmm.
00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:03.720
Well, the same can apply to relationships.
00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:04.190
Yeah.
00:27:04.490 --> 00:27:05.019
Right?
00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:11.430
So when you choose maybe not to participate in office gossip- Mm-hmm it's hard.
00:27:11.430 --> 00:27:17.680
We like to kinda know what's, you know- Yeah you know the old saying, if you- Well, I think, yeah don't have anything nice to say, say it, come sit next to me and say it to me.
00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:18.000
Yeah.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:29.640
It, it's hard to change that wanting to be in the know- Mm-hmm and wanting to know, uh, what's happening behind the scenes and, and who said what, and we want to know things.
00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:29.842
Mm-hmm.
00:27:29.842 --> 00:27:31.759
It's just kind of our, our humanity.
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.109
Our human nature is we don't wanna be left out.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:34.650
Mm.
00:27:34.670 --> 00:27:34.920
You know?
00:27:34.930 --> 00:27:35.259
Yeah.
00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:40.059
We want to be part- That's huge because so many people act on that,"Well, I'm, I'm left out." Yes.
00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:43.009
And they let that drive them, yeah.
00:27:43.170 --> 00:27:44.670
To d- to- To, yeah to participate.
00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:44.900
Right.
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:53.000
But what if you can build relationships in a new way that you're not left out, but in a healthy way- Mm-hmm that still honors- Mm-hmm you know, uh, your boundary.
00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:55.940
So I'm, I'm holding a thought'cause I will get to it, but...
00:27:56.109 --> 00:27:57.019
Well, I'll just say it now.
00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:57.049
Yeah.
00:27:57.349 --> 00:28:07.849
That this whole thing is about where somebody else's- life, opinions, actions, and choices ends- Mm and yours begins.
00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:08.130
Mm-hmm.
00:28:08.130 --> 00:28:09.890
That's what soft separation really is.
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:10.519
Mm-hmm.
00:28:10.809 --> 00:28:13.829
It's, and so I'm jumping ahead to say that that's really what it is.
00:28:13.829 --> 00:28:21.099
We're just defining, well, this is where you and your personality and gifting, like we're gonna have space for them- Mm-hmm ends.
00:28:21.329 --> 00:28:22.799
Mm-hmm, and this is where mine begins.
00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:23.849
And this is where mine begins.
00:28:23.849 --> 00:28:24.130
Yeah.
00:28:24.130 --> 00:28:30.869
And we are finally able to say,"Because I can be my own person and have my own thoughts, and I'm doing it- Mm-hmm a little differently." Mm-hmm.
00:28:30.869 --> 00:28:34.299
"And I like my reasons, and- Mm-hmm that is enough." It- Yeah it-
00:28:34.569 --> 00:28:42.019
That's been a hard one for us because, and, and more for, um, like we talked a little bit about like the generational- Mm-hmm stuff.
00:28:42.049 --> 00:28:47.680
And so when we're, we're questioned by older people- Mm-hmm it's- Mm.
00:28:47.859 --> 00:28:51.410
"Oh, am I, am I- Respect being disrespectful by this?" Mm.
00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:54.930
And it makes me rethink,"Did I handle this okay?" Mm-hmm.
00:28:55.069 --> 00:29:00.750
But I have to remain in what's- Yeah best for my family and the choice that we made.
00:29:00.750 --> 00:29:09.109
And I said it in the episode, like they haven't lived this in our lives and what we're doing every day, and they haven't seen it through our eyes.
00:29:09.210 --> 00:29:24.569
H- honestly, I have all adult children, and we try to d- to tell them as long as you are in agreement as, as a husband and wife- Mm-hmm um, or single kids, you know, if they're, if they like their reasons, they've thought it through- Mm-hmm they're saying it kindly, they're...
00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:31.700
That we as parents, as adult, you know, parents to adult children, it's just our job to, to respect that.
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:34.059
So let me just give a couple for dysfunction Real quick.
00:29:34.230 --> 00:29:34.509
Mm-hmm.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.880
Dysfunction might look like repeated disrespect Manipulation or control.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:39.289
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:44.039
I kind of use the, you know, the, the grandma or someone- Right of, you know.
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:44.339
Yeah.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.069
Oh, it just won't be the same without you." You know?
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:48.109
Mm-hmm.
00:29:48.140 --> 00:29:50.940
Um, the constant walking on eggshells.
00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:55.190
Uh, again, feeling responsible for someone else's emotions or choices.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:55.210
Mm.
00:29:55.509 --> 00:30:05.119
So it, I, we all do this a little bit, but, you know, if we say,"Oh, it'll just break their heart if you don't- Mm-hmm do that or if you do do this." Yeah.
00:30:05.309 --> 00:30:22.930
And y- and I love that you said to have that understanding that the person who's receiving- Mm-hmm this new- Yeah way of doing life- Yeah new way of doing Christmas, new way of doing a family gathering, new way of functioning in an office- Mm-hmm they, th- they're not used to this.
00:30:23.230 --> 00:30:24.200
They're not used to this.
00:30:24.230 --> 00:30:24.500
Yeah.
00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:27.359
So give them a minute to struggle with it a little bit.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:27.509
Mm-hmm.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:38.279
Like, I actually ha- have a, a thought in my head when I'm kind of be- be- being a little bit different in a, in a circumstance that this person's gonna possibly have a hard time with what you're saying- Mm-hmm
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:39.200
because it's a change.
00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:39.619
Mm-hmm.
00:30:39.630 --> 00:30:49.390
And whether a change is good- Mm-hmm and necessary, or a change is a, a bad change- Mm-hmm like losing a job or whatever, change is change, whether it's po- Yeah even if it's a positive change.
00:30:49.390 --> 00:30:57.380
I, I remember moving from our first little town home, uh, into a home with a big backyard, and everyone was like,"Oh, are you so excited?" Yeah.
00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:58.329
"You're building a house.
00:30:58.339 --> 00:31:01.230
That's so great." And I had this small little...
00:31:01.299 --> 00:31:02.059
But I loved it.
00:31:02.069 --> 00:31:02.089
Yeah.
00:31:02.089 --> 00:31:05.150
I brought three of my babies home to that little town home- Yeah all that.
00:31:05.420 --> 00:31:11.220
I said,"I'm actually dealing with some sadness," and they're like- Mm-hmm"What?"'Cause cha- even good change- Yeah is still change.
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:11.490
Yeah.
00:31:11.630 --> 00:31:19.759
I, I had y- I, I liked how you said what we had discussed, that you don't have to hate something to leave it- Mm-hmm to know that it's time to move on.
00:31:19.769 --> 00:31:19.960
Mm-hmm.
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:20.769
We don't have to get...
00:31:21.069 --> 00:31:28.400
In, in recovery, there's the term of you don't have to get all the way to the bottom floor- Mm-hmm to get off sooner- Mm-hmm because you know that that elevator's going crashing down.
00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:28.704
Mm-hmm.
00:31:28.704 --> 00:31:29.480
Let's just get off.
00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:29.910
Mm-hmm.
00:31:29.910 --> 00:31:30.700
Let's do it differently.
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:36.890
Uh, before we got on mic, we talked about in marriage, we, when we come to our husband and say,"Hey, I wanna read this book.
00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:40.750
I wanna go on this retreat or maybe do some couples therapy," they go into red alert.
00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:42.210
"Oh, no." Mm-hmm.
00:31:42.210 --> 00:31:42.230
"Everything's broken.
00:31:42.230 --> 00:31:43.769
Everything's wrong." No.
00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:44.430
Yeah.
00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:46.940
I love you so much that I just want it to be better and better and better.
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:47.410
Yeah.
00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:51.289
So we don't- My dad had a saying,"Stay ahead of your marriage." Oh, that's good.
00:31:51.289 --> 00:31:52.690
And that, it was so great.
00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:53.076
Mm-hmm.
00:31:53.076 --> 00:31:59.480
Um, and, and I say that, like, that's kind of our buzz, like,"Hey, I, we need to stay ahead here.
00:31:59.490 --> 00:32:01.480
I really like where this is.
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.890
Let's, let's-" Yeah water it with the little ice cube," right?
00:32:04.890 --> 00:32:06.490
Like- Stay ahead could mean the good.
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:06.970
Yeah.
00:32:06.990 --> 00:32:08.609
Like- Yeah like, this is what we're doing well.
00:32:08.609 --> 00:32:09.827
Let's do more of that.
00:32:09.827 --> 00:32:09.945
Mm-hmm.
00:32:09.945 --> 00:32:10.063
Mm-hmm.
00:32:10.063 --> 00:32:13.880
But I think we have a negative- Mm-hmm like, oh, I, I see a pitfall- Right coming up.
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:15.200
I see- Yeah we need a guardrail.
00:32:15.220 --> 00:32:16.779
No, not everything is negative.
00:32:16.789 --> 00:32:17.059
Yeah.
00:32:17.059 --> 00:32:20.279
Like, why do we look for the- And it could be in any relationship.
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:28.329
When you know the relationships that really matter- Yeah to stay ahead of it so that you can keep it- Yeah um, to keep people in our lives.
00:32:28.509 --> 00:32:29.140
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:29.140 --> 00:32:29.960
Like we've talked about, That's Why It Matters.
00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:31.150
Yeah, we did talk about it.
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:42.710
I don't know, uh, if you got into it or if you'd like to kind of flow into this- Uh-huh that we talked about, um, that, well, we had talked previously about we have doors on our homes.
00:32:42.710 --> 00:32:43.349
Mm-hmm.
00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:43.789
Yes.
00:32:43.819 --> 00:32:43.839
Yeah.
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:44.319
That's actually...
00:32:44.539 --> 00:32:46.369
You're hitting the, like- Right where we were going the transition right away.
00:32:46.369 --> 00:32:46.579
Yep.
00:32:46.589 --> 00:32:47.609
We have doors on our homes.
00:32:47.750 --> 00:32:47.990
Mm-hmm.
00:32:48.289 --> 00:32:50.279
Uh, you live, Nicole, in a beautiful neighborhood.
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:51.789
I loved, uh, driving in.
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.740
It was so peaceful and, uh, I loved looking out.
00:32:54.769 --> 00:33:01.109
And you have beautiful things in your home, and you have the most precious thing of all, your family- your children, your beautiful- Mm-hmm daughters.
00:33:01.390 --> 00:33:03.450
And- They were so excited about,"Is she here yet, Mommy?
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:05.250
Is she here?" She has a podcast, yes.
00:33:05.549 --> 00:33:05.569
Yeah.
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:06.890
Um, for you...
00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:08.559
So we have all these nice things.
00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:14.569
I bet if I were to get up from this chair and go over to your door, I have a feeling there's a lock on it.
00:33:14.869 --> 00:33:15.029
Mm-hmm.
00:33:15.029 --> 00:33:15.630
Would I be correct?
00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:16.109
Mm-hmm.
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:19.079
Even though this is a very nice neighborhood, I felt completely safe here.
00:33:19.150 --> 00:33:19.509
Mm.
00:33:19.809 --> 00:33:26.589
Me ha- you, us, people, having a lock on your door does not mean there's something wrong with all of these neighbors over here.
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:26.890
Right.
00:33:27.190 --> 00:33:30.539
I mean, there's probably that weirdo down the street, but, sorry weirdo down the street, no.
00:33:30.549 --> 00:33:30.839
Yeah.
00:33:30.869 --> 00:33:32.390
But you know what I'm saying.
00:33:32.420 --> 00:33:32.789
Mm-hmm.
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:35.200
It doesn't mean I don't trust you.
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:35.910
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:37.769
It doesn't mean I hate you.
00:33:37.769 --> 00:33:38.250
Mm-hmm.
00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:39.470
It doesn't mean I don't care about you.
00:33:39.470 --> 00:33:44.869
It doesn't mean that if I find out that you have something going on in your life, that I'm gonna walk out that locked door and go bring you a casserole.
00:33:44.910 --> 00:33:45.319
Mm-hmm.
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:46.250
Do people still bring casseroles?
00:33:46.549 --> 00:34:00.500
Um, but what it does mean- Mm-hmm is that you value the contents that are inside this home enough- Mm, mm-hmm that from time to time, usually, let's say, when you're in bed at night or you're leaving the house to go run some errands- Mm-hmm you're going to what?
00:34:00.740 --> 00:34:01.109
Mm-hmm.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:02.200
Lock the door.
00:34:02.420 --> 00:34:02.529
Mm-hmm.
00:34:02.539 --> 00:34:02.819
Right?
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:03.279
Mm-hmm.
00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:13.329
So why, so if we look at that as the same with boundaries- Mm-hmm what is it that when we put a little lock- Even if it's, w- let's say it's wide open during the day.
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:13.780
Yeah.
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:15.199
But at night you lock it.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:15.460
Mm-hmm.
00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:25.269
So really in essence what we're doing, uh, with a boundary, or as I like to call it, a soft separation, we're basically saying you have access- Mm-hmm during the day.
00:34:25.340 --> 00:34:25.829
Mm-hmm.
00:34:26.130 --> 00:34:27.980
But at night I'm gonna lock it.
00:34:27.980 --> 00:34:28.184
Mm-hmm.
00:34:28.184 --> 00:34:30.219
Or if I'm leaving for a trip, I'm gonna lock it.
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:30.659
Mm-hmm.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.960
That's very similar to how I would describe what we're trying to do with soft separation.
00:34:35.969 --> 00:34:36.329
Mm-hmm.
00:34:36.329 --> 00:34:40.030
It's not saying, uh, you never have access.
00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:40.409
Mm-hmm.
00:34:40.420 --> 00:34:42.940
You just have access when I choose to let you- Mm-hmm
00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:43.530
have access.
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:43.869
Yeah.
00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:50.070
But some people see that as they feel like- Yeah they should be able to walk in your door- Mm-hmm at any time.
00:34:50.110 --> 00:34:50.949
Mm-hmm.
00:34:50.949 --> 00:34:51.099
At 2:00 AM.
00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:51.639
Mm.
00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:52.264
Mm-hmm.
00:34:52.264 --> 00:34:52.594
I'm here.
00:34:52.594 --> 00:34:53.150
Mm-hmm.
00:34:53.269 --> 00:34:55.019
No, we don't do that.
00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:55.333
Mm-hmm.
00:34:55.333 --> 00:34:57.380
So you used the analogy of a wall.
00:34:57.489 --> 00:35:03.079
W- we have the wall, but we leave the, we have the door open when it's ready to be open.
00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:03.199
Yeah.
00:35:03.230 --> 00:35:03.519
Right?
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:04.309
That's always there.
00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:10.079
And then we have the gate where we have some things that are there where we can kinda see through.
00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:10.119
Mm-hmm.
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.039
And that was where I used the example of- Mm-hmm what our ministry at church is now.
00:35:14.050 --> 00:35:14.400
Mm-hmm.
00:35:14.409 --> 00:35:18.550
And then in our conversation you brought up the watchtower.
00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:18.590
I did.
00:35:18.730 --> 00:35:20.469
So, so I'm so excited to get to this.
00:35:20.469 --> 00:35:20.650
Yes, yeah.
00:35:20.650 --> 00:35:25.579
Because this is what connects it all, the life coaching- It does your relationships.
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:27.989
Y- Go I, I just physically rolled up my sleeve.
00:35:28.230 --> 00:35:28.750
Like, we're, we're gonna get into it.
00:35:28.820 --> 00:35:30.889
And I just physically got goosebumps.
00:35:30.889 --> 00:35:30.929
Yeah.
00:35:30.929 --> 00:35:32.150
So I'm so excited.
00:35:32.219 --> 00:35:32.460
Okay.
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:34.449
So it's very exciting'cause I think your listeners are gonna be able to track with this.
00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:34.940
Yeah.
00:35:34.940 --> 00:35:40.550
So if you look at the way cities were built- Mm-hmm and when we're building our lives, we're building- Mm-hmm a city.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:41.039
Mm-hmm.
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:43.829
We're building, y- you mentioned that our church is talking about house rules.
00:35:44.130 --> 00:35:44.210
Mm-hmm.
00:35:44.230 --> 00:35:46.300
What is the foundation we're building our life on?
00:35:46.579 --> 00:35:51.269
So really if you look at your life as something that's being built up- Mm-hmm'cause it is.
00:35:51.269 --> 00:35:51.980
Mm-hmm.
00:35:52.050 --> 00:35:57.989
Um, and we talked about the architecture of life coaching- Yeah, yeah and things like that, someone can help you with that.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.960
Like,"Here's what I built- Mm-hmm and this is how I would build it differently." Mm-hmm.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.980
So we are building something.
00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:11.130
So wherever you're at in your life, whether you're just starting to build your life or you're just waking up to your life and realizing,"Oh, I've been building something all along," but now we're being more intentional about it.
00:36:11.130 --> 00:36:11.539
Mm-hmm.
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:15.489
So you already, we already talked about the wall, that we put a wall around.
00:36:15.789 --> 00:36:27.400
And but you, every wall needs to have a gate,'cause if you don't have a gate- Mm-hmm how are you going to let in supplies- Mm-hmm from the faraway land, the fruit, the- Mm-hmm you know?
00:36:27.510 --> 00:36:27.769
Mm-hmm.
00:36:27.769 --> 00:36:33.809
But you don't just leave the gate wide open- Mm-hmm because, oh, there's a, a band of thieves that is- Right coming down the path.
00:36:33.829 --> 00:36:37.289
Like, you're not gonna just let people come in and- pillage and take whatever they want.
00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:37.320
Mm-hmm.
00:36:37.329 --> 00:36:38.840
We're very medieval in this example.
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:41.869
But- But this is scriptural, too so, and it is scriptural.
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:41.909
Yes.
00:36:41.989 --> 00:36:42.130
It is.
00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:42.489
Yeah.
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:46.250
But, but I think it tracks for- Yeah 100%, yes anyone, whether they're of faith or not.
00:36:46.550 --> 00:36:48.409
Um, so you have the wall.
00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:50.269
You have the gate, as you mentioned.
00:36:50.269 --> 00:36:50.420
Mm-hmm.
00:36:50.510 --> 00:37:02.440
And so we've already established, I, I hope everyone can track with it, that nobody's just leaving everything unlocked- Mm-hmm where everybody can just come and have access to everything and speak into every facet of your life and- Mm-hmm no, no.
00:37:02.449 --> 00:37:03.130
We have locks.
00:37:03.139 --> 00:37:03.909
There's a lock on the door.
00:37:03.909 --> 00:37:04.769
There's a lock on the gate.
00:37:05.070 --> 00:37:06.429
So take it a step further.
00:37:06.429 --> 00:37:15.219
If you look on the four corners of the fortified city, uh, with the walls- Mm-hmm there are these watchtowers, and I'm, I'm s- I'm showing it with my hands.
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:15.579
Right?
00:37:15.579 --> 00:37:18.969
So y- so imagine four or six- Mm-hmm or, you know,'cause you could have a mid one.
00:37:19.250 --> 00:37:25.159
And so there, if you were to look in, in, in these old times, is somebody at the top.
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:28.519
Uh, they're stationed- Mm-hmm at each of these watchtowers.
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:29.219
Mm-hmm.
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:44.510
Their function, their, their calling for life- Mm-hmm their job, their task, is to have really good eyesight and to look off a ways- Mm and to say Huh, I see a group of people coming.
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.360
I see a situation coming.
00:37:46.659 --> 00:37:51.719
You know, you kinda talked about that little feeling, that little tingly of is, something feels a little- Mm.
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:59.659
Off, yeah interesting, a little off, and every time I leave that situation or that workplace or that family gathering- Mm-hmm I feel a certain kinda way.
00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:02.550
So what you could do is go to a watchtower person.
00:38:02.550 --> 00:38:02.559
Mm-hmm.
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:02.570
Mm-hmm.
00:38:02.570 --> 00:38:03.539
A watchman, a watchwoman.
00:38:03.670 --> 00:38:06.420
Mm-hmm.
00:38:06.469 --> 00:38:11.719
It could be somebody who also was at that event, at that work meeting.
00:38:11.730 --> 00:38:12.019
Mm-hmm.
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:19.630
Now, don't misunderstand- It's a fine line, yeah gossip- Mm-hmm versus true, a, a true seeking out of- Did you hear this the same way?
00:38:19.929 --> 00:38:20.269
Exactly.
00:38:20.570 --> 00:38:21.349
Did you experience this?
00:38:21.349 --> 00:38:21.360
Yeah.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:21.690
Did you hear it the same way?
00:38:21.690 --> 00:38:21.920
Did you experience it?
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:28.289
Or, and that w- it's just kind of assessing where you are at, so then you can take action to then go- Mm-hmm to the per- person.
00:38:28.449 --> 00:38:32.960
And that's key, is you're doing it- It is key to set yourself up to take action.
00:38:33.050 --> 00:38:33.670
Exactly.
00:38:33.670 --> 00:38:33.679
Yeah.
00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:35.050
Yeah, and you know the difference.
00:38:35.110 --> 00:38:35.369
Mm-hmm.
00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:37.130
Listener, you know the difference.
00:38:37.150 --> 00:38:50.260
You know when you- Mm-hmm are engaging the conversation to stir things up- Mm-hmm and to be found, you know, gossiping or pointing fingers- Mm-hmm and shaking and all of that, versus asking curious questions, seeking to know and to better- Mm-hmm
00:38:50.269 --> 00:38:52.304
and to then resolve it- Mm-hmm.
00:38:52.304 --> 00:38:53.219
Mm-hmm where you need to.
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:57.489
So watchtower people are so important, because it could be a life coach.
00:38:57.489 --> 00:38:58.460
It could be a therapist.
00:38:58.460 --> 00:38:59.420
It could be a pastor.
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.510
It could be a, a trusted friend.
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:02.539
Mm-hmm.
00:39:02.539 --> 00:39:07.679
It could be a family member that, you know, you have like a certain relationship- Mm-hmm and so you just need to determine who those people are.
00:39:07.690 --> 00:39:09.550
Who are your watchtower people?
00:39:09.550 --> 00:39:09.809
Mm-hmm.
00:39:09.809 --> 00:39:15.469
So a watchtower person is able to say,"Oh, I've been in a situation like this before"- Mm-hmm and bring their wisdom, bring their guidance.
00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:15.949
Mm-hmm.
00:39:16.250 --> 00:39:17.219
And this is very important.
00:39:17.230 --> 00:39:20.469
Your watchtower person needs to be able to speak the truth to you.
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.800
The Bible says that the wounds of a friend are trusted.
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:23.829
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.030
If they come to you with a hard truth, are you willing to receive it?
00:39:28.050 --> 00:39:28.070
Mm-hmm.
00:39:28.070 --> 00:39:33.760
Are you willing to hear that spouse say- Yeah Well, honey- Yeah I don't really feel like they really...
00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:35.960
You know, maybe you're just having a little off day." Yeah.
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:37.362
No, I wanna touch on that real quick.
00:39:37.362 --> 00:39:38.070
It doesn't sound like who they are.
00:39:38.070 --> 00:39:38.539
Yes, please.
00:39:38.550 --> 00:39:45.789
Because a couple episodes ago, it was when I was talking about healthy culture, I used that passage, and iron sharpens iron.
00:39:45.789 --> 00:39:45.809
Mm-hmm.
00:39:45.820 --> 00:39:49.510
And what does the response look like then when you take those to a friend?
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:56.599
And so to have that outside person, or some people might call it a second opinion- Mm-hmm of the situation.
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:58.710
'Cause,'cause yes, that's exactly Trey and I.
00:39:58.739 --> 00:39:59.480
Who has...
00:39:59.489 --> 00:40:03.510
The Bible tells us about the gifts of the Spirit, and Trey's is discernment.
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:03.539
Mm-hmm.
00:40:03.539 --> 00:40:09.599
And so he can look and hear something and immediately know, okay, a guardrail or here.
00:40:09.619 --> 00:40:12.840
And then you, and then you add in that men are fixers, too, right?
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:12.869
They are.
00:40:12.869 --> 00:40:12.940
Yeah.
00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:17.829
So, but yes, that's, that's so important that, um, the wounds of a friend are true.
00:40:17.829 --> 00:40:17.885
Yeah.
00:40:17.885 --> 00:40:18.219
I wanted to touch on that.
00:40:18.219 --> 00:40:18.440
Yeah.
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:25.159
And then with that analogy, um, of the Scripture of the iron sharpening iron- Mm-hmm let's just be really honest.
00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:25.429
Mm-hmm.
00:40:25.429 --> 00:40:29.090
If iron is to sharpen iron- Mm-hmm it's going to clang.
00:40:29.150 --> 00:40:30.090
And be uncomfortable.
00:40:30.389 --> 00:40:30.570
Yep.
00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:31.050
And be uncomfortable.
00:40:31.289 --> 00:40:31.320
Yep.
00:40:31.409 --> 00:40:34.869
And but again, this is hard, but is it good for me?
00:40:34.949 --> 00:40:35.489
Mm-hmm.
00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:38.690
I will tell, I will tell you this, I think that list should be short.
00:40:38.929 --> 00:40:39.500
Yes.
00:40:39.550 --> 00:40:39.869
Yeah.
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:42.989
I, I can't remember if it was Brene Brown, It could've been Bob Goff.
00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:45.179
Or, um, so anyways, so I'll, I'll try to find out.
00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:45.360
Two of my favorite people anyways.
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:45.840
I love Bob Goff.
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.369
Both of them, I'm like- So but it- I love them.
00:40:47.510 --> 00:40:50.170
Yeah it, it was, you should have a short list.
00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:50.630
Mm-hmm.
00:40:50.670 --> 00:40:53.360
And originally it was said, and again, who knows who said it?
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:53.670
Yeah.
00:40:53.699 --> 00:40:55.289
But that think Post-it Note.
00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:55.679
Mm-hmm.
00:40:55.710 --> 00:40:57.739
And then later somebody said, think postage stamp.
00:40:57.900 --> 00:40:58.400
Mm-hmm.
00:40:58.400 --> 00:40:58.829
Mm-hmm.
00:40:59.019 --> 00:41:00.650
Not Post-it Note, postage stamp.
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:01.110
Yeah.
00:41:01.110 --> 00:41:02.530
So think how small a postage stamp is.
00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:02.559
Yeah.
00:41:02.849 --> 00:41:04.849
How many names can you really fit on that?
00:41:04.900 --> 00:41:05.170
Mm-hmm.
00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:07.230
And whoever said this said to keep it in your wallet.
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:08.000
Mm.
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:09.250
Uh, back when people- That's great.
00:41:09.250 --> 00:41:09.690
Yeah carried it.
00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:10.679
Um, we would keep it in our old phone.
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:11.699
Before Apple Pay.
00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:11.739
Yeah.
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:12.630
Well, it's interesting.
00:41:12.630 --> 00:41:13.646
Keep it in your notes- Yeah in your Apple Pay.
00:41:13.646 --> 00:41:14.210
Give a screenshot.
00:41:14.210 --> 00:41:18.579
One of my, one of my extras from the boundaries episode is an access map.
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:18.610
Ooh.
00:41:18.619 --> 00:41:25.010
And it's a, it's a diagram that you basically helping people figure out who that is.
00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:25.030
Ooh.
00:41:25.150 --> 00:41:28.809
And it's easy to download and keep it in your Apple Wallet.
00:41:28.809 --> 00:41:29.199
Perfect.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:31.670
Or your photos app, mark it a favorite- Yeah or something.
00:41:31.670 --> 00:41:39.429
Because it is so important, like- Yeah find those people so when you do feel uncomfortable, you can whip it out and say,"I need to-" Yeah"I need to reach out." You need to check in.
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.880
Yeah, figuring out who the watchman is.
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:41.900
Mm.
00:41:41.900 --> 00:41:45.010
So for me, that's Trey because...
00:41:45.099 --> 00:41:46.590
And, like, it should be.
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:46.619
Yeah.
00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:48.090
It should be my partner, right?
00:41:48.130 --> 00:41:49.880
Well, it, it- But he never got the title though.
00:41:49.940 --> 00:41:49.980
It could be.
00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:50.829
But now he does.
00:41:50.889 --> 00:41:51.119
Yeah.
00:41:51.170 --> 00:41:51.639
It could be.
00:41:51.670 --> 00:41:53.429
Not every marriage is going to have that.
00:41:53.429 --> 00:41:53.789
You're right.
00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:54.280
You're right.
00:41:54.289 --> 00:41:57.760
It's- That's where discretion and wisdom- If you're not there, that's where you could aim for that.
00:41:57.769 --> 00:41:57.789
Mm-hmm.
00:41:57.800 --> 00:41:59.190
Like, Jesse and I had to grow that.
00:41:59.239 --> 00:41:59.920
Mm-hmm.
00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:00.420
For sure.
00:42:00.489 --> 00:42:00.702
Mm-hmm.
00:42:00.702 --> 00:42:02.110
We had to intentionally grow that.
00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:02.400
Yeah.
00:42:02.409 --> 00:42:06.630
I, I actually had to remind him at one point,"I want you to be my person." Mm.
00:42:06.630 --> 00:42:07.309
Mm-hmm.
00:42:07.309 --> 00:42:14.650
"I want you to be my person, so when I bring you my big emotions-" Mm-hmm"you're gonna have to sift through that a little bit," uh, to get- Yeah And he's really worked on that.
00:42:14.650 --> 00:42:14.909
Yeah.
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:16.519
And I- I mean- I really appreciate it.
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:26.079
And then I also, in turn, try not to bring all of the drama- Uh-huh and just some of the drama, and be able to speak his language of- Yeah And he's gonna want the facts.
00:42:26.179 --> 00:42:26.469
Yes.
00:42:26.469 --> 00:42:27.289
He's gonna want the facts.
00:42:27.289 --> 00:42:31.250
So let me throw in,"Okay, these are the facts of what happened," and I'm speaking his language.
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:31.650
Yes.
00:42:31.659 --> 00:42:32.273
You, see what I'm saying?
00:42:32.273 --> 00:42:32.409
So.
00:42:32.409 --> 00:42:33.219
So here's the other thing.
00:42:33.230 --> 00:42:33.719
Mm-hmm.
00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:44.690
A watchtower person will also give advice or, um, pour into, give, give you a way of thinking about something of when to maybe open the gate.
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:44.719
Mm-hmm.
00:42:44.730 --> 00:42:47.460
So they see, hey, this is coming your way.
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:51.289
I know you're not sure about it, but I think this is gonna be really good for you.
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:51.699
Mm-hmm.
00:42:51.699 --> 00:42:52.090
Mm-hmm.
00:42:52.090 --> 00:43:00.320
So therefore, you would, um, you would make the So the watchtower would then holler down once they assessed- Mm-hmm it's not harmful.
00:43:00.460 --> 00:43:00.730
Mm-hmm.
00:43:00.730 --> 00:43:03.440
Open the gate, and then they open the gate.
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:03.619
Mm-hmm.
00:43:03.619 --> 00:43:04.539
And you can trust that.
00:43:04.539 --> 00:43:18.119
Now, you still ultimately have the power- Right the agency to trust that watchtower- Mm-hmm and then say,"I really, after my conversation with so-and-so, I really feel like- this is still okay.
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:18.269
Mm-hmm.
00:43:18.269 --> 00:43:18.900
This is- Mm-hmm.
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.610
Or they might say, Oh- Mm you know, I've noticed something.
00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:26.840
This is, do you realize this is the fifth time you've brought up this person?" Mm-hmm.
00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:31.619
I, I don't think it's, you know- Yeah it, it possibly is not safe yet to open that gate.
00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:31.731
Mm-hmm.
00:43:31.731 --> 00:43:32.599
So it could go both ways.
00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:32.639
Mm-hmm.
00:43:32.650 --> 00:43:36.909
And that's where, again, you still get to decide- Mm-hmm do I trust what that person is saying?
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:37.349
Mm-hmm.
00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:39.210
And take that counsel.
00:43:39.219 --> 00:43:39.599
Mm-hmm.
00:43:39.630 --> 00:43:47.980
And the Watchtower has a responsibility to have the hard conversations and whatnot, but- Mm-hmm it is your responsibility to sift it, keep what is good for you.
00:43:48.010 --> 00:43:48.210
Mm-hmm.
00:43:48.230 --> 00:43:52.960
Maybe this is good information to pray about and to consider- Mm-hmm but you don't have to act on it right now.
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:54.679
It might be future down the line.
00:43:54.690 --> 00:43:55.050
Mm-hmm.
00:43:55.099 --> 00:43:59.460
Um, so yeah, you get to decide- Yeah when you're ready to, to put that into action.
00:43:59.469 --> 00:43:59.500
Mm-hmm.
00:43:59.659 --> 00:44:01.460
And it, and it's the same thing with the Watchtower people.
00:44:01.460 --> 00:44:06.929
You're not going to do it exactly the way they did it, even if you respected things about their marriage or their life or their professionalism.
00:44:06.940 --> 00:44:07.269
Right.
00:44:07.570 --> 00:44:09.010
You still get to decide.
00:44:09.019 --> 00:44:11.969
Don't just give it over to them, because- Yeah what is the point of that?
00:44:12.260 --> 00:44:16.409
You take the good, you take what- Mm-hmm is for you for now.
00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:16.530
Mm-hmm.
00:44:16.530 --> 00:44:19.059
You sift it, and it might be for now, it might be for later.
00:44:19.130 --> 00:44:19.719
Mm-hmm.
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:27.389
And I, I love how you said just because you create a boundary doesn't mean that you've, you know, locked the gate and thrown the keys into the moat Yeah since we're gonna be medieval.
00:44:27.389 --> 00:44:29.190
And- Um, you have the keys.
00:44:29.289 --> 00:44:30.239
Mm-hmm.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:30.280
You have the choice.
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.460
You get to decide when you- Mm-hmm change your mind about that person and that situation.
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.889
And I loved what you said, that forgiveness is...
00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:41.019
s- forgiveness is something you can decide on your own- Mm-hmm and, and you should decide forgiveness.
00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:41.550
Mm-hmm.
00:44:41.550 --> 00:44:42.150
That is for your good.
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:43.000
Yeah, it's very healing.
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.480
Reconciliation takes two people in agreement to go, go forward.
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:46.889
Mm-hmm.
00:44:47.190 --> 00:44:53.500
And, uh, one final thought about, um, about when to kinda know that...
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:55.570
'Cause we didn't even really get into the soft separation.
00:44:55.570 --> 00:44:55.579
Mm-hmm.
00:44:55.579 --> 00:45:02.900
So I'll tell you what, I will give you all my notes from- Mm-hmm um, from my series about soft sep- separation.
00:45:02.900 --> 00:45:02.929
Yeah.
00:45:02.929 --> 00:45:07.730
You can give it to your, uh, listeners if they wanna- Okay look through that or they can link to my page.
00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:10.460
This is what I know, that when somebody's...
00:45:10.750 --> 00:45:21.000
So whenever we walk a path with someone, whether it be professionally, relationally, in a marriage, uh, in our families, in a friendship- You're making an agreement with somebody.
00:45:21.019 --> 00:45:21.429
Mm-hmm.
00:45:21.460 --> 00:45:21.739
We're...
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:30.809
Whether we have signed a contract or not, we have said- Yeah I like you, you like me, and we feel like we can walk this path for this season.
00:45:30.969 --> 00:45:31.389
Mm-hmm.
00:45:31.469 --> 00:45:37.750
Until one person starts asking of you more than you feel comfortable and are willing to give.
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:38.269
Mm-hmm.
00:45:38.389 --> 00:45:42.349
And when that starts to happen, not just one time, but on repeat.
00:45:42.460 --> 00:45:43.250
Right, it's a pattern.
00:45:43.250 --> 00:45:45.550
It's a repeated- Yep pattern, and I think you did talk about that.
00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:45.920
Mm-hmm.
00:45:45.940 --> 00:45:48.670
And then they even maybe start to manipulate or control it.
00:45:48.670 --> 00:45:55.500
"Oh, it won't be the same if you don't come to ladies who lunch"- Yeah when you're trying to maybe carve out time for something different, you know?
00:45:55.510 --> 00:45:55.639
Mm-hmm.
00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:05.784
That's where you know that there is a soft separation happening where they are who they are with their opinions and what's important to them and what they wanna continue to be part of, and you begin.
00:46:05.793 --> 00:46:05.813
Mm-hmm.
00:46:05.983 --> 00:46:10.673
They are ending, and you are beginning, and that is normal, and that is healthy, and that is good.
00:46:10.684 --> 00:46:10.704
Mm-hmm.
00:46:11.003 --> 00:46:19.594
And if they are for you- Mm-hmm and are willing to let you navigate this- Mm-hmm and let you be you, and they can still be them, and that that's not a threat.
00:46:19.693 --> 00:46:20.153
Mm-hmm.
00:46:20.153 --> 00:46:23.713
It's not a threat to let somebody be them and you be you, and that's okay.
00:46:23.713 --> 00:46:27.153
In fact, I even have a, a little saying where I say,"Just let me be me." Yeah.
00:46:27.153 --> 00:46:35.393
"Just let me be me," and that's kind of the way of saying- The whole you do you, yeah, type of thing and, and it really is, it's just kind of a freedom to let people be exactly who they are at this point in their life.
00:46:35.434 --> 00:46:35.643
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:46:35.643 --> 00:46:37.353
And they might change and grow and be different.
00:46:37.614 --> 00:46:37.833
Mm-hmm.
00:46:37.833 --> 00:46:43.954
And so if you have someone that you had to kinda separate, have you ever experienced this, where you kinda separate a little bit for a time?
00:46:43.954 --> 00:46:46.264
You don't see them for a, a s- a moment.
00:46:46.414 --> 00:46:46.594
Yeah.
00:46:46.594 --> 00:46:54.974
Then you get back together, and the good parts- Yeah about that relationship- Yeah are reminded and are there, and you realize, oh, they grew, or maybe you grew.
00:46:55.074 --> 00:46:55.454
Mm-hmm.
00:46:55.463 --> 00:46:56.273
Or maybe both.
00:46:56.393 --> 00:46:56.733
Mm-hmm.
00:46:56.733 --> 00:47:00.733
Because what we're not changing, we're choosing, and maybe they chose some different ways, too.
00:47:01.034 --> 00:47:01.114
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:47:01.114 --> 00:47:04.164
And you chose some different ways, and you come back together, and you're better.
00:47:04.324 --> 00:47:04.614
Mm.
00:47:04.623 --> 00:47:11.853
You're better in that friendship because- Mm-hmm you both let go of that need to maybe gossip, or- Mm-hmm you let go of that need to compare.
00:47:11.864 --> 00:47:12.213
Mm-hmm.
00:47:12.224 --> 00:47:15.594
And you're just the best parts of y- of that relationship.
00:47:15.603 --> 00:47:15.623
Yeah.
00:47:15.704 --> 00:47:21.253
So you can reconcile if two parties- Yeah agree to come back, but it is uncomfortable in the beginning.
00:47:21.264 --> 00:47:21.853
Mm-hmm.
00:47:21.853 --> 00:47:22.574
It r- it really is.
00:47:22.574 --> 00:47:23.983
Not everybody's gonna understand it.
00:47:23.994 --> 00:47:24.014
Yeah.
00:47:24.313 --> 00:47:30.543
Um, I talk about this in, in my, um, in my slides that I'll share, that you don't have to announce it.
00:47:30.603 --> 00:47:31.023
Mm-hmm.
00:47:31.134 --> 00:47:33.054
You don't have to say,"Dun, dun, dun, dun.
00:47:33.054 --> 00:47:34.704
I have a boundary." Right, yeah.
00:47:34.804 --> 00:47:42.594
You just- Because that's where we are with my family, and it, there's a fine line I think because- I talked about it a little bit in the episode.
00:47:42.893 --> 00:47:45.134
We don't wanna be avoidant of it though either.
00:47:45.143 --> 00:47:45.164
Yeah.
00:47:45.333 --> 00:47:50.083
E- especially if there had been major, um, dysfunction.
00:47:50.384 --> 00:47:51.804
It- Right, like- It takes a lot of bravery- Yeah
00:47:51.804 --> 00:47:52.634
to not avoid it.
00:47:52.744 --> 00:47:53.103
Yeah.
00:47:53.403 --> 00:47:54.373
I think that's what people do.
00:47:54.494 --> 00:47:54.824
Yeah.
00:47:54.824 --> 00:47:56.054
I think that's the cultural norm right now.
00:47:56.063 --> 00:47:56.384
Yeah.
00:47:56.684 --> 00:47:58.074
I don't like this about you.
00:47:58.284 --> 00:47:58.534
Mm-hmm.
00:47:58.534 --> 00:48:06.983
We are in disagreement about- Mm-hmm the way that we're, uh, raising our kids, the way that we view politics, the way that we view- Mm-hmm religion.
00:48:07.003 --> 00:48:07.523
Mm-hmm.
00:48:07.753 --> 00:48:08.934
Uh, marriage even.
00:48:09.054 --> 00:48:09.164
Mm-hmm.
00:48:09.463 --> 00:48:14.824
Uh, there are so many places- Yeah Nicole, that we can land on in our differences.
00:48:15.123 --> 00:48:17.923
There are probably far more differences that we could focus on.
00:48:18.063 --> 00:48:18.483
Mm.
00:48:18.784 --> 00:48:19.123
Right?
00:48:19.164 --> 00:48:19.653
Mm-hmm.
00:48:19.844 --> 00:48:26.224
But relationship, healthy relationships choose to focus on what, where are we alike?
00:48:26.284 --> 00:48:26.423
Mm-hmm.
00:48:26.423 --> 00:48:27.563
Where are we alike?
00:48:27.864 --> 00:48:27.884
Mm-hmm.
00:48:27.893 --> 00:48:30.463
Where, where do we share- Mm-hmm love?
00:48:30.753 --> 00:48:32.474
Uh, you did talk about, uh, something.
00:48:32.523 --> 00:48:33.773
What was your, your phrase?
00:48:33.773 --> 00:48:38.684
You said that boundaries- Determine access- Determine access but love determines dignity.
00:48:38.693 --> 00:48:39.643
Love determines dignity.
00:48:39.643 --> 00:48:39.873
Yeah.
00:48:40.173 --> 00:48:45.423
And so really, uh- What, what happens with most people is that we're afraid of something.
00:48:45.423 --> 00:48:46.103
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:48:46.264 --> 00:48:52.483
So when somebody says,"I'm not going to do what we've always done because I just wanna do it differently." Mm-hmm.
00:48:52.483 --> 00:48:53.713
We're afraid of something.
00:48:53.744 --> 00:48:54.074
Mm.
00:48:54.083 --> 00:48:56.994
We're afraid that they don't like us- Mm-hmm that we did something wrong.
00:48:57.103 --> 00:48:58.733
We're afraid that they think they're better than us.
00:48:58.744 --> 00:48:58.884
Mm-hmm.
00:48:58.903 --> 00:49:00.184
"Oh, you think you're holier than thou?" That fear.
00:49:00.483 --> 00:49:00.724
Oh.
00:49:01.003 --> 00:49:07.634
Yeah, even that, um, that's big,'cause I'm going into that in my next episode a little bit, is this fear of confrontation.
00:49:07.643 --> 00:49:19.443
And so when you're setting a boundary or the art of separation, it's, again, recognizing where the other person is, and that might be terrifying for them to be confronted.
00:49:19.454 --> 00:49:19.474
Yeah.
00:49:19.483 --> 00:49:30.974
And, and then it's this, like you said earlier, you have to leave the space for that to- Grow to, yeah, to just- Or- kinda be and- Yeah reflect on, and for them to reflect on it.
00:49:30.983 --> 00:49:42.994
And that's, that's always been an area of growth for me because I'm like a get to the point, I want accountability, I wanna move on, I want you to know that I love you, and I just have to sit.
00:49:43.003 --> 00:49:43.023
Yeah.
00:49:43.034 --> 00:49:46.934
And I think that's something God's been teaching me for a long time is you just, you wait.
00:49:46.934 --> 00:49:48.534
Well, that's- Yeah possibly why you have the podcast.
00:49:48.833 --> 00:49:53.744
Because you want to say the things that we don't say because I think that's where the, the real relationship is.
00:49:53.844 --> 00:49:54.233
Mm-hmm.
00:49:54.233 --> 00:49:55.463
That's where the real- Mm-hmm healing is.
00:49:55.713 --> 00:49:55.914
Mm.
00:49:56.213 --> 00:49:56.376
That's where- Mm-hmm.
00:49:56.376 --> 00:49:57.204
I'm the same way, Nicole.
00:49:57.204 --> 00:49:58.893
That's probably why we can talk for three hours.
00:49:58.903 --> 00:49:59.204
Yeah.
00:49:59.454 --> 00:50:00.403
Like, just say it.
00:50:00.503 --> 00:50:00.934
Yeah.
00:50:00.954 --> 00:50:01.934
Even if it's hard.
00:50:01.943 --> 00:50:01.963
Mm-hmm.
00:50:01.983 --> 00:50:03.253
Like, let's cry about it.
00:50:03.253 --> 00:50:03.264
Mm-hmm.
00:50:03.264 --> 00:50:06.583
Let's- Mm-hmm let's say where we had misunderstanding.
00:50:06.634 --> 00:50:07.014
Yeah.
00:50:07.264 --> 00:50:10.614
Like, let's just get it all out so that now we can fix what's broken.
00:50:10.793 --> 00:50:11.083
Yeah.
00:50:11.083 --> 00:50:14.534
But if we keep saying it's not broken, we're never going to fix it.
00:50:14.574 --> 00:50:14.903
Mm-hmm.
00:50:14.903 --> 00:50:16.764
We're never going to fix it, and it's gonna keep- Yeah
00:50:16.764 --> 00:50:18.224
what we're not changing, we're choosing.
00:50:18.284 --> 00:50:18.724
Yeah.
00:50:18.764 --> 00:50:19.853
So we're choosing it.
00:50:19.853 --> 00:50:20.063
Mm-hmm.
00:50:20.063 --> 00:50:21.023
And it gets worse.
00:50:21.074 --> 00:50:21.423
Mm-hmm.
00:50:21.423 --> 00:50:22.184
It does get worse over time.
00:50:22.184 --> 00:50:22.744
Mm-hmm.
00:50:22.753 --> 00:50:23.684
I'm, I've seen that.
00:50:23.684 --> 00:50:24.333
I've lived that.
00:50:24.634 --> 00:50:27.213
Um, now, but not everybody's ready for those conversations.
00:50:27.224 --> 00:50:27.523
Right, yeah.
00:50:27.583 --> 00:50:41.653
That's why it is healthy to have watchtower people, to have community, to have- Mm-hmm maybe a therapist or a life coach- Mm-hmm uh, to have a spouse that you can- Mm-hmm have those, those conversations with especially for people who are experiencing your soft separation.
00:50:41.793 --> 00:50:43.123
Mm-hmm.
00:50:43.123 --> 00:50:44.114
They're experiencing you doing life differently.
00:50:44.114 --> 00:50:45.324
Have compassion for that.
00:50:45.503 --> 00:50:45.784
Mm-hmm.
00:50:45.793 --> 00:50:46.974
Have a lot...
00:50:46.974 --> 00:50:52.554
I think we started to say this and we didn't finish it, that when you approach these conversations, as much as possible do it in real life.
00:50:52.853 --> 00:50:54.923
As much as possible, do the sandwich method.
00:50:55.114 --> 00:50:55.253
Mm-hmm.
00:50:55.393 --> 00:51:03.213
This is what I really love about- Mm-hmm our work environment and my place in this company, my place in this family, our, our family gatherings- A friendship.
00:51:03.224 --> 00:51:04.643
Mm-hmm our family reunions.
00:51:04.653 --> 00:51:04.813
Mm-hmm.
00:51:04.923 --> 00:51:07.014
A lot of these things can come up at, during these things.
00:51:07.313 --> 00:51:16.744
But there's some things that have happened repeatedly as patterns- Mm-hmm over the years where I leave these work meetings, I leave these- This place, yeah, whatever
00:51:16.753 --> 00:51:23.514
conversations feeling diminished, feeling- Mm-hmm made fun of- Mm feeling like I don't matter.
00:51:23.653 --> 00:51:23.784
Mm.
00:51:23.813 --> 00:51:32.273
And so you should always be able to share- Yeah, when you give a- your experience- pers- or you used it in one of our conversa- when you give a woman back her voice.
00:51:32.284 --> 00:51:32.634
Yes.
00:51:32.934 --> 00:51:36.923
What was it you s- When someone feels heard, they begin to heal.
00:51:37.043 --> 00:51:37.443
Mm-hmm.
00:51:37.483 --> 00:51:38.514
Yeah, that's what it was.
00:51:38.514 --> 00:51:38.793
Mm-hmm.
00:51:38.793 --> 00:51:41.233
You, you must listen, and we don't.
00:51:41.244 --> 00:51:41.264
Mm-hmm.
00:51:41.454 --> 00:51:44.494
When this comes up, listeners, you're going to experience this.
00:51:44.514 --> 00:51:45.693
I'm just gonna tell you right now.
00:51:45.704 --> 00:51:46.483
Ask me how I know.
00:51:46.784 --> 00:51:53.393
So when you start to have these conversations, there's going to possibly be some defensiveness- Mm-hmm because they're afraid of something.
00:51:53.614 --> 00:51:56.923
They are losing the version of you that they felt comfortable with.
00:51:56.923 --> 00:51:57.804
Mm-hmm.
00:51:57.804 --> 00:51:58.054
Think about that.
00:51:58.054 --> 00:51:58.474
Mm-hmm.
00:51:58.773 --> 00:51:59.813
So they're afraid of that.
00:51:59.824 --> 00:52:07.884
They like it when you just go along to get along, when you don't speak up, or you don't say that you have needs- Mm-hmm because that makes things easy and go with the flow.
00:52:07.934 --> 00:52:09.103
They like that version of you.
00:52:09.103 --> 00:52:09.673
Mm-hmm.
00:52:09.864 --> 00:52:10.414
They do.
00:52:10.713 --> 00:52:13.353
But that version of you is, is killing y- you.
00:52:13.494 --> 00:52:13.853
Mm.
00:52:13.864 --> 00:52:14.463
It's killing...
00:52:14.764 --> 00:52:17.313
It's silencing your voice, as you said.
00:52:17.414 --> 00:52:17.554
Mm-hmm.
00:52:17.554 --> 00:52:17.673
Mm-hmm.
00:52:17.673 --> 00:52:19.264
And so once you see that, you...
00:52:19.293 --> 00:52:21.333
So you, you're, so you're in the conversation with them.
00:52:21.333 --> 00:52:24.333
You've gotten to the middle part, which is the things that are hard.
00:52:24.563 --> 00:52:26.384
As much as possible, keep it to yourself.
00:52:26.443 --> 00:52:26.884
Mm-hmm.
00:52:26.923 --> 00:52:29.414
Don't say,"Well, you do this with everybody.
00:52:29.423 --> 00:52:31.614
You do this with all of your employees.
00:52:31.634 --> 00:52:34.773
You're, um, you do this with all of your coworkers.
00:52:34.773 --> 00:52:37.244
You do this with- Mm-hmm all of your congregants.
00:52:37.253 --> 00:52:40.753
You do..." D- be careful of the always and the nevers and the everybody.
00:52:40.764 --> 00:52:41.074
Right.
00:52:41.244 --> 00:52:41.554
Yeah.
00:52:41.614 --> 00:52:42.003
That's big.
00:52:42.003 --> 00:52:43.393
Speak, keep it to yourself.
00:52:43.443 --> 00:52:44.974
This is what I'm experiencing.
00:52:44.983 --> 00:52:45.014
Mm-hmm.
00:52:45.023 --> 00:52:46.414
This is what I'm feeling.
00:52:46.713 --> 00:52:48.543
Give examples where you can.
00:52:48.684 --> 00:52:49.114
Mm-hmm.
00:52:49.193 --> 00:52:52.284
Um, I, I think it should be thought of in advance.
00:52:52.574 --> 00:52:52.963
Mm-hmm.
00:52:52.963 --> 00:52:58.574
You could even have some notes- Mm-hmm if you're the type of person that loses your courage a little bit or just wants to stay on track.
00:52:58.873 --> 00:52:59.293
Mm-hmm.
00:52:59.293 --> 00:53:04.393
And then finish it up with the in a perfect world scenario, what it could look like.
00:53:04.393 --> 00:53:05.514
Yes, the end in mind.
00:53:05.514 --> 00:53:05.954
Hope and dream.
00:53:05.983 --> 00:53:06.293
Yeah.
00:53:06.594 --> 00:53:07.534
This is what I want.
00:53:07.583 --> 00:53:12.074
I want us to still have- Mm-hmm the family gathering as we have had it.
00:53:12.324 --> 00:53:14.344
But I'm gonna need these things to change.
00:53:14.344 --> 00:53:15.193
You- Mm-hmm the middle part.
00:53:15.204 --> 00:53:15.543
Mm-hmm.
00:53:15.543 --> 00:53:16.333
I'm, I'm showing the middle part.
00:53:16.634 --> 00:53:22.793
But this is what I see- Mm-hmm that we can still do this, and we can do this, and we can do this, and do this- Mm-hmm if we both work on it.
00:53:22.793 --> 00:53:29.693
And I'm willing because- I will make time and effort and put my energy into what matters, and you matter.
00:53:29.804 --> 00:53:30.253
Mm-hmm.
00:53:30.293 --> 00:53:31.653
This relationship matters.
00:53:31.873 --> 00:53:48.704
Me, my place in this company or in this culture, in this church, or in this community matters- Mm-hmm to where I'm willing to have this hard conversation to tell you how much it matters to me, but these things would have to change in order for it to stay- Right th- in order for me to be present for it.
00:53:48.813 --> 00:53:49.014
Yeah.
00:53:49.014 --> 00:53:52.373
And we might even step away for a season- Right or make- You talk about grow and go.
00:53:52.373 --> 00:53:53.284
Grow and go.
00:53:53.293 --> 00:53:53.324
Right.
00:53:53.403 --> 00:53:53.614
Yeah.
00:53:53.614 --> 00:53:58.204
And, and do it a little bit differently, and then how about we, we get back together in a couple months?
00:53:58.213 --> 00:53:58.914
Mm-hmm.
00:53:58.914 --> 00:53:58.963
Mm-hmm.
00:53:58.963 --> 00:54:02.333
And kinda retreat to our, you know, you gave Jesus- Mm-hmm as an example.
00:54:02.474 --> 00:54:02.833
Mm-hmm.
00:54:02.914 --> 00:54:09.123
It wasn't that Jesus didn't love the disciples- Yeah or love the crowds that he was healing and, and ministering to and preaching to.
00:54:09.423 --> 00:54:09.684
Mm-hmm.
00:54:09.784 --> 00:54:12.333
He needed some separation.
00:54:12.344 --> 00:54:12.364
Yeah.
00:54:12.373 --> 00:54:14.853
I'm gonna go in this boat, and they still would find him.
00:54:14.853 --> 00:54:18.353
I'm gonna go on this mountainside- Yeah and pray and be with the Father.
00:54:18.574 --> 00:54:19.813
So we recharge.
00:54:19.813 --> 00:54:20.083
Mm-hmm.
00:54:20.384 --> 00:54:22.114
We, we get re- you know, replenished.
00:54:22.114 --> 00:54:32.664
I remember when I had my very first coaching session with someone, um, about five years ago, and I sat there with this life coach, and I told her my sad story.
00:54:32.963 --> 00:54:33.494
Mm-hmm.
00:54:33.554 --> 00:54:36.173
And it was a very sad, true story.
00:54:36.264 --> 00:54:36.724
Mm-hmm.
00:54:36.793 --> 00:54:42.273
Now, some of the feelings was how I was experiencing my sad story, but- Mm-hmm but I've shared this story, I've shared it with you.
00:54:42.284 --> 00:54:42.423
Mm-hmm.
00:54:42.643 --> 00:54:43.893
And it is a sad story.
00:54:43.893 --> 00:54:44.146
Mm-hmm.
00:54:44.146 --> 00:54:47.673
It's, it's an unfortunate series of events, uh, that occurred.
00:54:47.974 --> 00:54:54.103
And the life coach that I met with told me two things, and I'm gonna be very honest with you.
00:54:54.173 --> 00:54:59.143
When, when I shared my very sad story, I, I had never experienced life coaching.
00:54:59.153 --> 00:55:01.704
I had, I had only met with a therapist at that point.
00:55:02.003 --> 00:55:10.094
The first thing she said to me is she said,"Wow, that is a really sad story." And I thought,"Yeah." Mm-hmm.
00:55:10.114 --> 00:55:12.023
"It is." You feel affirmed and- Yeah yeah.
00:55:12.023 --> 00:55:12.753
Felt seen.
00:55:13.043 --> 00:55:13.313
Yeah.
00:55:13.353 --> 00:55:14.393
And she said, uh...
00:55:14.463 --> 00:55:15.684
And I still get emotional.
00:55:15.764 --> 00:55:18.693
She said,"I wonder what your life would look like without it." Mm-hmm.
00:55:18.693 --> 00:55:19.184
Mm-hmm.
00:55:19.483 --> 00:55:23.074
And I thought, How dare you- Mm-hmm say that to me?
00:55:23.114 --> 00:55:25.494
What do you mean, like I'm making this all up?" Mm-hmm.
00:55:25.494 --> 00:55:27.114
Like, I felt defensive.
00:55:27.184 --> 00:55:27.793
Mm-hmm.
00:55:27.824 --> 00:55:28.184
Remember?
00:55:28.193 --> 00:55:30.853
Sometimes when you, when somebody- Yeah, calls it out.
00:55:30.873 --> 00:55:33.083
Yeah uh, kinda calls it out, calls it what it is.
00:55:33.384 --> 00:55:35.793
And at that point I'd been telling that sad story for two years.
00:55:35.893 --> 00:55:36.463
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:55:36.463 --> 00:55:42.623
Remember I, I told you- Mm-hmm I confessed to my husband,"I will never be happy again." I obviously was not in a he- in a healthy place.
00:55:42.724 --> 00:55:44.634
Mm-hmm.
00:55:44.634 --> 00:55:47.893
This story, while true- Mm-hmm was not taking me anywhere.
00:55:47.963 --> 00:55:48.054
Mm-hmm.
00:55:48.054 --> 00:55:48.884
I was stuck.
00:55:48.943 --> 00:55:49.164
Mm-hmm.
00:55:49.224 --> 00:55:50.893
I was stuck in this sad story.
00:55:51.164 --> 00:55:57.244
And when she gave that curious question, which is what we do as life coaches, we ask curious questions, uh, we...
00:55:57.293 --> 00:56:01.914
When she said,"I wonder what your life would look like without it," that day I was not having it.
00:56:01.994 --> 00:56:02.373
Mm-hmm.
00:56:02.373 --> 00:56:03.403
I just, I'm being honest with you.
00:56:03.403 --> 00:56:03.784
Mm-hmm.
00:56:03.813 --> 00:56:06.623
She also said- had something else that I took offense to.
00:56:06.643 --> 00:56:07.744
I was very offended that day.
00:56:07.753 --> 00:56:11.403
So if you meet with a life coach and you leave offended- you're probably in the right place.
00:56:11.704 --> 00:56:15.543
I s- uh, she also said,"What if it was always going to be this way?" Mm-hmm.
00:56:15.844 --> 00:56:22.704
And so now here I am, five years down the road- Mm-hmm and I'm able to have such comfort in both of those statements.
00:56:22.784 --> 00:56:23.173
Mm-hmm.
00:56:23.213 --> 00:56:32.643
Because when I say it was always going to be this way, it's because God knew that I was the right woman- Mm for this situation.
00:56:32.643 --> 00:56:32.893
Mm-hmm.
00:56:32.893 --> 00:56:33.523
Mm-hmm.
00:56:33.523 --> 00:56:43.224
I am called to this hard situation that we're walking through, this hard path- Mm-hmm this hard journey, because He knew that I would allow Him to make beauty from the ashes.
00:56:43.233 --> 00:56:43.253
Mm-hmm.
00:56:43.264 --> 00:56:46.983
He knew that I would allow- Mm-hmm Him to take my pain and give it purpose.
00:56:46.983 --> 00:56:47.083
Mm-hmm.
00:56:47.123 --> 00:56:51.713
And now I bring it to other- Mm-hmm people because healed people heal people.
00:56:51.724 --> 00:56:51.753
Mm-hmm.
00:56:52.003 --> 00:56:55.483
And I could have continued to be a hurt person who was probably going to hurt people.
00:56:55.483 --> 00:56:56.753
Hurt people, mm-hmm.
00:56:56.773 --> 00:56:58.074
Starting with my own children.
00:56:58.103 --> 00:56:58.643
Mm-hmm.
00:56:58.643 --> 00:56:59.833
I was going to hurt them.
00:56:59.844 --> 00:57:02.063
They're the first ones that would've received the hurt.
00:57:02.123 --> 00:57:02.264
Mm-hmm.
00:57:02.264 --> 00:57:03.364
I was hurting my marriage.
00:57:03.483 --> 00:57:03.724
Mm.
00:57:03.753 --> 00:57:07.954
I was hurting my friendships because I was on repeat- Mm for this hurt situation.
00:57:07.954 --> 00:57:08.204
Mm-hmm.
00:57:08.204 --> 00:57:08.224
Mm-hmm.
00:57:08.233 --> 00:57:13.693
Well, eventually some friends, they lose their tenacity to stay- Mm in that fight with you, right?
00:57:13.994 --> 00:57:14.773
Uh, it's exhausting.
00:57:14.773 --> 00:57:15.333
Mm-hmm.
00:57:15.333 --> 00:57:15.514
It can be.
00:57:15.793 --> 00:57:19.094
Uh, but once I felt heard, I started to heal.
00:57:19.193 --> 00:57:19.333
Mm-hmm.
00:57:19.344 --> 00:57:28.494
And then once I was given the tools to change the way I thought about it and to treasure hunt and to get the help that I needed- I was able to start healing out of it.
00:57:28.494 --> 00:57:28.563
Mm-hmm.
00:57:28.563 --> 00:57:34.994
I mean, you've known me for a long time, so you know- Mm-hmm as I'm telling you this, you are remembering- Mm-hmm where I was.
00:57:35.043 --> 00:57:35.063
Mm-hmm.
00:57:35.063 --> 00:57:37.164
I had gained 100 pounds at that time.
00:57:37.173 --> 00:57:37.474
Mm-hmm.
00:57:37.503 --> 00:57:44.023
Because I realized that I had lost who I was in this, and I started to feel like I lost my worth.
00:57:44.023 --> 00:57:45.753
I wasn't worth- Hmm.
00:57:45.753 --> 00:57:46.804
Mm-hmm something.
00:57:47.034 --> 00:57:48.244
Fill in the blank of that.
00:57:48.273 --> 00:57:52.119
Uh, uh, if you feel like you're not worth the effort- Mm-hmm let's just say.
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:52.204
Mm-hmm.
00:57:52.204 --> 00:57:53.983
You start treating yourself that way.
00:57:53.994 --> 00:57:54.003
Hmm.
00:57:54.014 --> 00:57:55.693
And I started to treat myself that way.
00:57:55.693 --> 00:57:55.713
Mm-hmm.
00:57:55.724 --> 00:57:56.983
I'm not worth the effort.
00:57:56.983 --> 00:57:57.273
Mm-hmm.
00:57:57.273 --> 00:57:59.474
Well, now I know that I am worth the effort.
00:57:59.483 --> 00:58:07.753
I take the time to take good care of myself- Mm-hmm to, uh, put the proverbial oxygen mask on yourself- Mm-hmm before serving everyone else.
00:58:07.753 --> 00:58:12.784
No, that's good,'cause the, the sad story, you get to a point, especially...
00:58:12.793 --> 00:58:21.824
And like you say, working with a life coach helped you, to where- Yeah you were able, not necessarily to let the story go- No but to- Very much the- To grow you yeah.
00:58:21.833 --> 00:58:23.673
And that goes back to that grow and go.
00:58:23.974 --> 00:58:26.804
I- Well, it's kind of the, now what, is what it comes down to.
00:58:26.804 --> 00:58:28.864
It's like- Mm-hmm okay, this has happened, now what?
00:58:28.864 --> 00:58:29.170
Mm-hmm.
00:58:29.170 --> 00:58:30.284
Where do we wanna go from here?
00:58:30.304 --> 00:58:30.684
Mm-hmm.
00:58:30.983 --> 00:58:31.253
So.
00:58:31.324 --> 00:58:31.873
That's good.
00:58:31.893 --> 00:58:36.344
So, if you leave a listener with one thing today, what do you want that to be?
00:58:36.643 --> 00:58:39.704
I think it would be that we don't have to harden our heart.
00:58:39.704 --> 00:58:39.773
Mm-hmm.
00:58:39.773 --> 00:58:42.693
We don't have to lock everything up tight.
00:58:42.884 --> 00:58:43.384
Mm-hmm.
00:58:43.483 --> 00:58:46.983
That I, I think that we can live loved.
00:58:47.134 --> 00:58:47.463
Mm-hmm.
00:58:47.483 --> 00:58:52.003
And therefore, when we know that we're fully loved, we can love others fully loved.
00:58:52.063 --> 00:58:52.483
Mm.
00:58:52.614 --> 00:58:57.594
But loving others doesn't necessarily mean that they, they have, as you said, all access and whatnot.
00:58:57.603 --> 00:58:57.614
Mm.
00:58:57.864 --> 00:59:01.313
That we can, um, not harden our heart.
00:59:01.313 --> 00:59:08.173
We could have the tools- Mm-hmm and do the work in order to protect our peace and, and our- Mm-hmm integrity and, uh, what did you call it?
00:59:08.173 --> 00:59:08.954
Your dignity.
00:59:08.963 --> 00:59:09.364
Mm-hmm.
00:59:09.364 --> 00:59:10.213
Keep our dignity.
00:59:10.213 --> 00:59:11.014
We're not begging.
00:59:11.253 --> 00:59:11.693
Mm-hmm.
00:59:11.704 --> 00:59:11.724
Yeah.
00:59:11.804 --> 00:59:14.764
We're not begging people, uh, to show up a certain way.
00:59:14.764 --> 00:59:16.664
In fact, I, I do think this is really important.
00:59:16.693 --> 00:59:22.123
We never use these boundaries, uh, to change the other person or as a punishment- Mm-hmm we kind of talked about.
00:59:22.143 --> 00:59:25.193
It's always because we're changing something within us.
00:59:25.244 --> 00:59:25.583
Mm-hmm.
00:59:25.583 --> 00:59:26.994
It's inside, it's an inside job.
00:59:27.103 --> 00:59:27.543
Mm-hmm.
00:59:27.563 --> 00:59:29.244
All of what we have talked about today- That's huge.
00:59:29.253 --> 00:59:31.224
Yep Nicole, is an inside job.
00:59:31.233 --> 00:59:42.094
And so, you know, just I want your listener to be gentle with themselves, to be kind- Mm-hmm with themselves, where maybe they've even- Yeah heard some of this today and they thought,"Oh, I didn't do it that way." Um, and that's okay.
00:59:42.143 --> 00:59:42.454
Yeah.
00:59:42.463 --> 00:59:44.813
When we know better, we do better.
00:59:45.103 --> 00:59:50.713
And so don't, don't just lock it all up tight- Mm-hmm because you're missing out on so much of what we talked- Mm-hmm about.
00:59:50.844 --> 00:59:51.003
Mm-hmm.
00:59:51.003 --> 00:59:51.583
Community.
00:59:51.853 --> 00:59:51.903
Mm-hmm.
00:59:52.123 --> 00:59:57.103
You know, a richer relationship, whether it be a friendship or professional relationship or your marriage.
00:59:57.403 --> 01:00:03.134
Um, a better relationship with your children, whether they're still in your home- Mm-hmm or they're teenagers or they're adult children.
01:00:03.434 --> 01:00:10.514
Don't miss out by hardening up your life- Mm-hmm and saying, like I did,"I'm never going to be happy again,"'cause that is a lie.
01:00:10.634 --> 01:00:11.043
Yeah.
01:00:11.103 --> 01:00:17.483
There is a full beautiful life outside of this painful, hard situation, that you need to be brave.
01:00:17.494 --> 01:00:17.503
Mm.
01:00:17.574 --> 01:00:19.804
And so, you know, be brave.
01:00:19.844 --> 01:00:21.344
Have those conversations.
01:00:21.643 --> 01:00:22.583
Seek out guidance.
01:00:22.583 --> 01:00:22.614
Mm-hmm.
01:00:22.623 --> 01:00:27.153
Seek out wisdom, uh, from the trusted postage stamp- Yeah amount of people.
01:00:27.193 --> 01:00:27.474
Yeah.
01:00:27.554 --> 01:00:34.653
Uh, maybe that means you need to make your, your community a little smaller- Yeah of who can speak into your life, and get really clear about that.
01:00:34.684 --> 01:00:39.023
So that's a lot of final thoughts, but just keep a soft heart- Yeah because there's so much beautiful life.
01:00:39.043 --> 01:00:43.114
And I'm happy to report I'm happier than I've ever been in my life.
01:00:43.193 --> 01:00:43.313
Yes.
01:00:43.313 --> 01:00:43.463
Yeah.
01:00:43.503 --> 01:00:45.983
I have so much joy, so much peace.
01:00:45.994 --> 01:00:46.083
Mm-hmm.
01:00:46.083 --> 01:00:47.284
And it's...
01:00:47.483 --> 01:00:49.224
And I'm not afraid of the days to come.
01:00:49.384 --> 01:00:49.764
Yeah.
01:00:50.063 --> 01:00:53.954
I, I'm able to not say,"Oh, I can't handle one more thing," and it's the opposite.
01:00:53.994 --> 01:00:54.094
Mm-hmm.
01:00:54.094 --> 01:00:57.454
I can handle whatever comes my way, because I know where to seek out help.
01:00:57.554 --> 01:00:57.954
Mm-hmm.
01:00:58.014 --> 01:01:00.804
I know where to believe in my own self and my own ability.
01:01:00.813 --> 01:01:00.864
Mm-hmm.
01:01:00.864 --> 01:01:07.094
And then, of course, ultimately, my higher power, my faith in God- Mm-hmm is what has sustained me.
01:01:07.244 --> 01:01:07.764
Mm-hmm.
01:01:08.003 --> 01:01:08.614
Thank you.
01:01:08.914 --> 01:01:11.934
So we're doing something pretty cool for the listeners, right?
01:01:11.943 --> 01:01:12.014
Yes.
01:01:12.034 --> 01:01:17.784
Um, I am so, so thankful for you and your willingness to work with them.
01:01:17.884 --> 01:01:21.753
We said, um, so you usually do a 20-minute, like, consultation.
01:01:21.753 --> 01:01:22.273
What do you call it?
01:01:22.293 --> 01:01:23.393
The- I do a Let's Chat.
01:01:23.393 --> 01:01:24.293
A Let's Chat.
01:01:24.293 --> 01:01:25.193
It's my, it's my Let's Chat.
01:01:25.204 --> 01:01:26.554
They're a free consultation.
01:01:26.853 --> 01:01:29.583
Uh, some will call it, like, a discovery call or- Mm-hmm something like that.
01:01:29.884 --> 01:01:37.213
It's just where we would have a conversation that is about 20 to 30 minutes, but I want to offer your listeners one full session.
01:01:37.364 --> 01:01:37.724
Mm-hmm.
01:01:37.873 --> 01:01:38.079
I love that.
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:55.264
And so it's 45 minutes to an hour, and if you think that you cannot gain clarity, um, or understanding or even gain a, a little bit of hope- Mm-hmm for whatever your situation is from one 45-minute s- conversation, they can, uh, come to me through Instagram or Facebook.
01:01:55.264 --> 01:01:55.284
Mm-hmm.
01:01:56.266 --> 01:01:57.516
Slide into my DMs.
01:01:57.516 --> 01:01:58.327
Say, I wanna chat.
01:01:58.367 --> 01:02:05.077
Uh, let, you know, let me know that you heard me on, uh- Mm-hmm this podcast," and I will set up a time to meet with them.
01:02:05.277 --> 01:02:08.606
90% of the time- Mm-hmm it's over Zoom at their convenience.
01:02:08.657 --> 01:02:14.387
So they could meet with me that way, and I can tell'em a little bit about life coaching and what that looks like.
01:02:14.387 --> 01:02:14.737
Yeah, love that.
01:02:14.737 --> 01:02:19.166
And I will be offering some sessions for your listeners at a reduced rate.
01:02:19.467 --> 01:02:19.507
Aw.
01:02:19.507 --> 01:02:20.556
In fact, it's my church rate.
01:02:20.577 --> 01:02:20.586
Aw.
01:02:20.597 --> 01:02:27.097
I do, uh, I do go to churches and offer my services, uh, to churches, and so it's my nonprofit or my church rate.
01:02:27.097 --> 01:02:27.416
Yeah.
01:02:27.467 --> 01:02:28.047
So yeah.
01:02:28.047 --> 01:02:28.077
I love that.
01:02:28.077 --> 01:02:28.117
Thank you so much.
01:02:28.117 --> 01:02:29.909
Yeah, but They also can follow me on Instagram- Yeah and Facebook.
01:02:29.909 --> 01:02:31.179
I do different series.
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.840
Typically, it's just something that I'm going through myself.
01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:37.409
Uh, right now I'm in a series, uh, Finding Delight.
01:02:37.710 --> 01:02:53.869
I wanted to intentionally end the last 100 days of 2026- To find the, the joy and the delight- Mm-hmm um, in God's word, uh, but also in my life as it is, not as I would have it- Mm-hmm but just in the simplicity of life, but also God's delight in me.
01:02:53.989 --> 01:02:54.329
Mm.
01:02:54.329 --> 01:02:55.239
And just receiving that.
01:02:55.269 --> 01:02:57.219
And I've also noticed other people's delight.
01:02:57.349 --> 01:02:57.659
Yeah.
01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:02.789
I've been opening up my eyes, and I've had such a flood of people giving me beautiful feedback.
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:10.369
Like- Yeah that has not happened as much as- Mm it's happened in the last, I would say, two weeks, and I thought it's because I'm open- When you open your eyes and yeah.
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:10.989
I'm more- That's...
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:24.610
Well, and that's where, um, when I was blogging, Nicole Beholds- Mm is what my podcast has now morphed into from the blog to the podcast, and that's what it was all about- Mm-hmm is just being able to sit and behold and see all of that- Yeah and how God's working in all of that, so.
01:03:24.670 --> 01:03:25.710
It's all for our good.
01:03:27.588 --> 01:03:31.952
Okay, so confession number two, Jen and I did not stop when the timer did.
01:03:32.242 --> 01:03:33.373
Are we surprised at all?
01:03:33.625 --> 01:03:40.253
There's this whole other part of the conversation, including what to do when the holidays start pulling everyone in four different directions.
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:47.523
It's going out on Monday only to my email list, but we have a bunch of other stuff that I had to cut out just to keep it to an hour.
01:03:47.547 --> 01:03:52.052
And then also big surprise, I think I'm even a little bit over an hour.
01:03:52.054 --> 01:03:55.492
So I'm sorry, but there's so much meat to what she has to say.
01:03:55.818 --> 01:04:04.621
If you're not on my email list, head to nicolebeholds.com and you can sign up so that when it lands in your inbox on Monday, you are ready to grow and go.
01:04:05.047 --> 01:04:07.295
Um, hey, go find Jen on Instagram.
01:04:07.306 --> 01:04:08.690
Her handle's in the show notes.
01:04:08.699 --> 01:04:13.182
She's in the middle of that Finding Delight series, and it's just so refreshing.
01:04:13.601 --> 01:04:17.418
She talked a little bit about it, and tell her you heard her here.
01:04:17.438 --> 01:04:22.402
There's a huge gift that she's offering our listeners, and I'm so, so thankful for her doing that.
01:04:22.715 --> 01:04:30.708
I'm thankful for her wisdom and her honesty and all the time that she gave this space to really help us all grow and go.
01:04:31.056 --> 01:04:31.960
Keep a soft heart.
01:04:32.034 --> 01:04:40.443
I'll talk to you soon At its heart, The Things We Don't Say is about helping people recognize that there's always more going on beneath the surface of everyday life.
01:04:40.592 --> 01:04:42.063
It's about paying attention.
01:04:42.123 --> 01:04:43.123
It's about meaning.
01:04:43.152 --> 01:04:47.163
It's about beholding the bigger picture hidden inside ordinary moments.
01:04:47.603 --> 01:04:51.583
Because often, the things we don't say reveal the things that matter most.
01:04:52.242 --> 01:04:53.072
Thanks for listening