The Prestige

thetakeup: You are now entering the take up place to gather when the film is over. I'm your host, Joshua Ray, and I'm here with my co host, the managing editor of the takeup dot com. That's Andrew Wyatt. Is that Andrew Wyatt? Or is that Andrew Wyatt's brother? Is that another
Andrew: What?
thetakeup: version of Andrew Wyatt? Hey Andrew Wyatt.
Andrew: Hello.
thetakeup: Every episode we decide if one film gets to enter the takeup's permanent cinema. Today is the beginning of a Christopher Nolan doubleheader. We're starting with his 2006 film, The Prestige. And then we'll have one more thing. I promise that I'm not gonna make like a bunch of double or twin or brother jokes. I mean I here we are at the top and I'm spoiling the entire bit. I g I've given
Andrew: You're you you promise it you promise that, but I don't believe you. Well
thetakeup: I don't think you can either, sir.
Andrew: Well, in that you're a lot like Christopher and Jonathan Nolan because from the very first jump of this movie, they're basically telling us what's happening.
thetakeup: It's the and like in a way that surprised me watching it again because I haven't seen it really for probably the twenty years since it came out. but he's just right there and it's like that man in makeup. Now who's that actor in makeup for no appearance there is a reason and I get it. And I think that's kind of I think it's
Andrew: Well let let let's back up. Let's back up.
thetakeup: kind of okay though.
Andrew: yeah, it's okay. Let let's back up. So what you said
thetakeup: Yeah, okay. Alright, here to talk about. In honor of of Christopher Nolan's huge epic, The Odyssey, we decided, well, let's go back and talk another Chris Nolan. We've never really talked about Christopher Nolan, a filmmaker I have almost no feelings for.
Andrew: Hmm.
thetakeup: And I don't know if that's a controversial thing to say. I like I like
Andrew: I don't think it's I don't think it's controversial in certain snooty cinophile circles to say that Christopher Nolan leaves you cold.
thetakeup: Huh. Did you just call me Snooty?
Andrew: I mean, we're kinda both snooty. Isn't that entire entire brand on this podcast?
thetakeup: I don't know, I did see I did see your your your log for this movie and I feel like you know, following each other on letterbox and then doing this thing that's like based upon, you know, ooh, is he gonna like it or not? This is probably Anyway, anyway, anyway, yeah. I guess it's not much of a surprise to say I'm kinda meh about Christopher Nolan. And I try to separate my non-response to his work from the culture. And a certain kind of film bro making
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: cinema all about Christopher Nolan. And I try to
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: just kind of. Contend with his work as it is.
Andrew: I think that's the right approach. I mean, maybe not the
thetakeup: Yeah.
Andrew: right approach. I think it's the right approach for you because of how because of what I know about your philosophy of cinema and how you approach things in general. I've always sort of resisted being lumped in that category you're talking about, the like people who idolize Nolan as the second coming of cinema or whatever. And but but
thetakeup: Well, I I kind of feel the same way about being lumped in with the David Lynch people too. It's like,
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: you know, 'cause there are just like Twin Peaks people and I I'm like inside David Lynch and then there are people who are like damn fine cherry pie and I'm like
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: I I I don't know. I I think you're allowed
Andrew: Well,
thetakeup: to different
Andrew: I think part of it is because we're we the philosophy, at least that I'd always try to bring to any filmmaker is an open mind, open heart about what they're doing and try to meet them on their own terms. But I'm also like, I think this I if I'm not mistaken, I think this speaks to both of us. I think we're also sort of resistant to grand unified theories of cinema. Like anybody who says Who makes absolutist statements about anything in art is always a little bit behind the curve for me. I I I just don't
thetakeup: Mm-hmm.
Andrew: I just don't believe in making those kind of statements. So people who say that Nolan is the best filmmaker alive right now and there's no debate
thetakeup: There are there are no roles. Sir.
Andrew: at all, I'm like, no, not really. And that's the and I really like Nolan. I really like him as a filmmaker. I think he's really matured and grown, especially in the last five to ten years. And but I'm always sort of resistant to be seen as somebody in that camp who's just sort of like, Slobbering Nolan lover camp, I guess.
thetakeup: Well there have been really measured and interesting rallies for Nolan. David Boardwell's really sticks out in his trying to break Nolan's break down Nolan's filmic grammar, which
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: to me his grammar is really unique and that is what I like about the rhythm of some of his films. but there's there are just overarching things beyond that that I far I kind of just slide off of.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: and things that I think as we explore this film will kind of make sense, you know, knowing me as a critic and knowing some of the things that I typically don't respond to. What so w
Andrew: Mm. Well let's let's let's get specific about the prestige thing. Well you said that you first saw it sort of around its original release, maybe?
thetakeup: Well, I wanna I wanna go back because if we're doing two Chris Nolans, let's
Andrew: mm hmm.
thetakeup: let's make a big extravaganza about it. When did you come in with Christopher Nolan?
Andrew: it had to be memento.
thetakeup: Had to be Memento for me too. And Memento was such a kind of lightning bolt. It came in that time, it was two thousand one, right? Yeah. When the puzzle film seemed to be kind of like a like Hold on, let me gather a thought. Maybe this is like more backwards looking, that
Andrew: Ironically.
thetakeup: or like here. Ha ha. Shit. Stepped into that. but it seemed to like grow with the internet in the way that, you know, the World Wide Web, just like hyperlinking and
Andrew: Yeah, it would only be a couple of years before like Lost would become this humongous pop cultural phenomenon and people would start
thetakeup: Yeah.
Andrew: like doing flow doing like always sunny flow charts about lost on their walls and things like that.
thetakeup: But they they they resemble those things too narratively, and and
Andrew: Mm. Mm.
thetakeup: Memento did that kind of but in a very kind of unique way, and I haven't seen it in a long time, but it felt really original at the time, and then I I don't know, it seemed like Christopher Nolan was just kind of an af like is that guy gonna become a thing eventually until he became like everything to everyone?
Andrew: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I'm try in my mind, it's funny you say it's a 2001 film because in my mind, Memento is sort of feels like the last nineties indie sensation in a way that
thetakeup: It does. No, it really does.
Andrew: in a way that like pulp fiction became an indie breakout or things like there there's that whole series of nineties films that became sort of known as quote unquote indie breakouts and became huge hits. And I think of Memento, even though Memento is a twenty first century film, I think of it as sort of the last gasp of that. If that makes sense.
thetakeup: Yeah, it's a transitional film because it's hard for me to think of Memento coming out the same year to a, you know, at least surface level thematically similar film, which is Mull Hole and Drive. And Mahole and Drive is such like a like future looking film, while also
Andrew: Mm mm.
thetakeup: of course looking back to the past. But is Memento feels so much of the era that came before it. but again, like with this and we'll talk about it and with Christopher Nolan's preoccupation with time. I think that it's just kind of really interesting, but also Christopher Nolan like creatively or at least as a storyteller and and maybe just in subject matter never feels quite fresh to me.
Andrew: Really?
thetakeup: And so yeah, so let's let let's get to the prestige and
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: so did you see this in the theater? I did not. It escaped me entirely.
Andrew: No, I it came a little around a time where I wasn't seeing a ton of films in the theater yet. I definitely saw it like right away when it came out. Like I had heard that it I knew that who Nolan was at the time. Obviously, I think this was post Prestige came out between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, if I recommend correct correctly. So at that time I obviously knew who he was and I was interested in him. but I must have seen it on DVD. And so hit the the sh the Irony of this of me suggesting this film for this episode is that I wasn't a huge fan of the prestige when it first came out. I recalled thinking it was fine and entertaining. I was very hung up on some aspects of it, like in a bad way. Like I there were really some parts of it really stuck in my craw. And then as I've revisited it over the years, I've Come to r it's come to really grow on me and become weirdly, maybe one of my favorite Nolan films. I definitely think it's the best script that Jonathan Nolan has ever written, straight up. and it's just one reason I wanted to talk about it. We we could have picked any film to pair with Odyssey, right? But one reason I wanted to talk about this because it was a rare film where I wasn't that impressed right out of the gate, the way I was, say, with you know, Inception or Oppenheimer or Dunkirk. I d I just kinda s I wouldn't say I slid off of it the way you were the phrasing you use. I would say it was more just there were things about it that nagged at me that I'd maybe not feel full throated in my enthusiasm for it. And over time those have kind of fallen away.
thetakeup: Well what what what are those things though? Because I have to tell you, this I've seen this film a few times, a couple of times, and it is kind of like entertaining nothing burger to me. Like I I understand what's clever about it. It's a very handsomely made film. it
Andrew: Beautiful. Beautiful visuals,
thetakeup: It does
Andrew: yeah.
thetakeup: have a very tricky script, but like tricky in a way where it is kind of a magic trick. It's like, look what I can do. which I don't necessarily, you know. It does it,
Andrew: Would you say it feels gimmicky to you?
thetakeup: I mean it does, but that's baked into the thing. Like the whole thing is about kind of like the sleight of hand. And this film, while it's sleight of hand isn't n is is is very slight, I'll say, in that you can kind of see bits of what's going on, but then it kind of doubles back on itself and and reveals even more to you. I just there's there's a lack of like humanism here, humanity here that
Andrew: Really? Really?
thetakeup: I find really kind of just kind of inuring, like just nothing
Andrew: That's fascinating to me because I think of this as w one of Nolan's most humanist films alongside maybe maybe Memento itself.
thetakeup: And I I would I would probably agree. Like I'm not I'm not I'm not a I'm not a big fan of the man. well okay th there and we have two episodes. Okay, I'll just say that. There are two episodes. But yeah, so I kind of re watching it this time feel somewhat the same about
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: it. There are three Things that came into great relief after spending a lot of time with Nolan and Nolan being a person who's like there are things that people talk about when they talk about Christopher Nolan. They talk about time, they talk about his kind of his film grammar, they talk about h his women. and all of those things are, you know, kind of easy now to pull apart from or pull away from the prestige and look at, But it's still like it is still so handsomely made that it's it's a a neat movie to experience, but I don't I I don't thrill within this.
Andrew: Mm-hmm. I mean I think that's fair. I I I I've always felt that that criticism of Nolam that he's sort of a that he is a bit of a magician, that he likes fooling the audience and getting a wow out of them, but maybe n is is kind of surface level, as a filmmaker. I've always found that criticism valid. I d I wouldn't dispute it. I think for me, particularly with this film, as I've revisited it and come back to it again and again and been continually impressed, my my estimation of it has sort of increased over time in the way it has. The humanism of it and the ache of it it it just leaves a very strong impression on me in a way I can't maybe I have a hard time articulating. It's a very
thetakeup: Where do you centralize the ache though? Is it in the conflict between the two men? Is it i in the in the like in the kind of dead wife stuff? And I don't mean to like I I don't mean to be really glib about it. Is I'm just trying to be kind of precise about it.
Andrew: It's no, I think I no, I think you're right. I mean it's a part of it is all of it, but I really think it does come down to I think Jackman in particular is really great in this. I I really didn't appreciate him early on about how excellent his his just his delivery and the fine-tuning of his performance in a way that maybe is surprising in a character who's so sort of outsized and grandiose.
thetakeup: Mm-hmm.
Andrew: that there's just a fundamental Hollowness inside these men. And I don't mean that in a way of like, they're badly developed characters. What I mean is that the hunger in them, you know, it's it's a movie about obsession. but I think it's about obsession in a way that gets beyond sort of the mechan mechanistic duel of wills between these two complementary men. That the part that makes it interesting from a plot perspective for me is not necessarily the part that makes it interesting from a human humanistic perspective or emotional perspective. The fact that these men feel so hungry, there's a black hole inside of them that that that's devouring from the inside out. And it it only partly has to do with how they are kind of matter and antimatter, and that one ha you know, there's there's a real like Highlander feel here where it's like Borden and Angier are so similar yet so complementary, there's no way that the universe can contain both of them, and one of them is gonna have to fall. And that's just Because it's couched in this more real compared and and I say that in a way that makes it sound grandiose, like say the Batman movies are grandiose. But for me, part of why it works so well is that it's grounded in this slightly but not overtly fantastical Victorian setting, and it makes it feel real. And part of it is what you say, it looks so beautiful in the texture and the production design and the the the steampunky Victorian-ness of it all. gives it gives it a weight, I think, for for me at least, that makes it transcend the sort of s the fantastical elements of the material, if that makes sense.
thetakeup: One thing I have to say is even though maybe some of the the CG in this hasn't aged very well, I th or it it looks good. Like it it still looks great. Like
Andrew: mm.
thetakeup: the very practic practicalness, practicality, the tech the tactility
Andrew: Mm.
thetakeup: of Nolan's filmmaking is on such great display here. And I think that's really fun for a film that is, you know, He uses magic, like he will show you a trick and and show you how the trick is done sometimes. And then other times the magicians do things that, well, they're magicians, so we just have to believe that they would be able to do those things.
Andrew: Right.
thetakeup: It's it's such a kind of like neat shorthand in the screenplay and in the filmmaking, but I just
Andrew: How did Christian Bale, how did Borden put the manacle on the the prison guard's leg without him noticing?
thetakeup: That ex that is the exact moment when I started thinking about this. This
Andrew: Ha ha
thetakeup: is there is no fucking way. Like there's absolutely no fucking way he could do that. But they're magicians, right? So and we've seen the kind of magic that they do and that they are highly skilled. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew: And we've seen how important distraction, we've seen how important distraction is to the the methodology of stage illusion. I mean, that's part of what it's so. I understand the people who are sort of like, this is just so filmmaking 101, you know, but it just works I I maybe don't think that anybody, at least in America American filmmaking, is well, just
thetakeup: I don't I don't get that. Well f
Andrew: the sense that he shows us something and then he uses that, as you say, for shorthand later so that he can. He can keep things moving along and keep his I mean, pacing is so essential, I think, to Nolan's filmography. And the the sense of momentum is is always essential to what he's doing. But let's let's get back to the beginning here. So what what do we have in the prestige? We have a duel, right? It's a it's a movie
thetakeup: Yeah.
Andrew: about a rivalry, about nemesis.
thetakeup: But if we could if we could talk it about it in the way of what is really happening
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: because you say it's a duel, but it isn't.
Andrew: No, it isn't.
thetakeup: Because it's it's like a triangle, because
Andrew: Ha.
thetakeup: there's actually two men on one side. You've got
Andrew: Right.
thetakeup: Christian Bale who's playing twins,
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: and and the twins are Exchanging places in order to be able to do, you know, what is it? The returning man? What is it called?
Andrew: A transported man.
thetakeup: The transport of man. I'm gonna be so like old faggy man about all this. Like, what's
Andrew: Ha ha.
thetakeup: it called? The returning man? anyway. but
Andrew: What is it again?
thetakeup: so I just I I don't know. I think at some point it's like as a neat twist ending, sort of like I see dead people, it's a neat twist ending. But what does it really do for what this film is about? Because isn't it more interesting that it is about these I love the way that you say these two men who have like these black holes inside them and they can only like fill it with each other wink wink. It is the gayest one. It is the gayest.
Andrew: Well, kind of, but they they they they it's they can fill it with each other, but I think also more importantly they need to fill it with the the idea. I mean, part of what makes Angier and Borden so fascinating as rivals is because they do want slightly different things. That Borden is the atour, right? He's the one who believes that illusion and stage stage magic has a value as an art. And his passion is to be the best of the best for the sake of being the best. Yes, there's ancillary benefits like money and fame, but I mean this is why we go back to the line that Borden is the magician, Angier is the showman. what yeah, that's fun.
thetakeup: He's the greatest showman you might.
Andrew: That's always funny in retrospect. But but and Angier, this goes back to Angier's final lines in the film, is that it for him it was always about the adulation that he wanted he he wanted to see the looks on people's faces. He wanted people to be To love him, but also to be awed and wonder and feel feel a little bit of wonder. And those are two very different things. And in some ways, I think the rivalry is less about, yes, it's about dead wives and about tit for tat and nose for eye for an eye that that eventually sort of spirals into that. But it's really also about how their philosophies of illusion, the philosophies of magic are fundamentally. At odds. They they want different things. They're both have that craving. They both have that hunger, but what they're looking for is something fundamentally different. And it's almost like the existence of the other one offends something aesthetically or morally in the in the other one. That Angier Angier is a bad magician in the sense that he doesn't have the commitment to craft and sacrifice that Borden slash Fallon have. So that somehow offends them. And conversely, Angier finds Borden's sort of stiffness and inhumanity and unwilling and complete, seeming complete disregard for the crowd to be like morally offensive somehow. There's a deeper, like, it's not just we hate each other because we hate each other. There's a deeper philosophical battle happening here between these men that maybe they aren't even aware of. They just know it's one of those things where you meet somebody at a party and you instinctively dislike them because there's something about them that offends you philosophically.
thetakeup: It's it's really interesting because, you know, I think Nolan sort of positions himself as the Borden and not someone
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: who is interested necessarily in the kind of or maybe it is about the kind of con internal conflict he has as a filmmaker and the other side being tech, technology.
Andrew: Yeah, I think all I think all Nolan films are kind of about filmmaking.
thetakeup: Yeah. I think they just I mean I think at a certain point like they f They I lost my train of thought. I think that at a certain point though, his limitations are almost always revealed to me. And
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: there are limitations in that he is mostly interested in that conversation and less interested in the kind of pawns he's using in order to have that conversation. And I'm thinking about again, I kind of don't understand really what this film is about. If it's actually two twin brothers, like is one of them always kind of is Fallon the all always the sort of submissive one who i is like a tertiary character in the in the duel. It it just
Andrew: But there is no Fallon. That's I mean, that's the key. I think so let me say, there are I've seen videos, I've seen the YouTube videos. Right.
thetakeup: But I mean, they're I know I know, but they're both they're twins though. Like that's another person.
Andrew: Kind of, but I've seen the videos online where people like the prestige explained, and they go through every scene in the movie and they say, This is Fallon, this is Fallon, this is boring, this
thetakeup: I'm so bored with that. Sure.
Andrew: is Fallon. And I hate that because the film tells us, the text tells us that they are constantly switching places for all kinds of reasons all the time. And you can't, you're not supposed to be able to tell that they are both they are both they are one and the same. What's the
thetakeup: But
Andrew: What's the substance line? There's no there is no you and there's no you them and you are both you.
thetakeup: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Like there that's kind of what's going on here. And the the Fallon Borden distinction is really about like John Nolan, John and Christopher Nolan kind of keep it straight in the screenplay, but it doesn't matter for us as viewers which one is which. It doesn't matter if there's a personality divide. The main thing we know is that one loves Sarah and one loves Olivia. And watching, the only way you can really tell, it isn't even about the costuming or Bale the fine gradations in Bale's acting. It's about what is their stance towards the woman they're in the room with right now. And what is the screenplay telling us about how they feel about this woman? That's the tell. That's the only real tell, I think.
thetakeup: Yeah, but then to me I just really don't understand like then why kind of gesture towards that the humanity of those being two separate characters? Those are two different people there. They just it just feels like an empty gesture to me. It feels like a very like screenwritery thing. It feels like a kind of like a thing that was workshopped in order. in order to have this great twist.
Andrew: Well, I I I understand that and I think I I I agree with that to an extent. For me, it comes down to the idea that that in itself, the inner ability to distinguish between these two men is part of the tragedy of it, that they've sublimated the sense of distinctness and identity distinct identities in the favor. I mean, the the line that keeps coming up is sacrifice, right? Sacrifice and discipline. What do you have to do? I mean, that's why they that's why they show The old Chinese magician at the beginning, right? Is to show the level of sacrifice that has to be done to pull off a trick on this scale. They're just showing us what Borden slash Fallon are doing. They're, they've completely destroyed their ability to have distinct lives, to have independence. I mean, the it's almost like an inversion of a typical use of twins where we're saying, they're so alike. Well, the tragedy
thetakeup: Mm.
Andrew: of the prestige is that Borden and Fallon may have been distinct. At one point, but they have had to flatten themselves. They have had to create two characters and both be able to inhabit it to the same degree. And therefore, their their ability to have, I mean, they say in the film, we both got half a life and it wasn't enough. Like we that was that had to be enough for us, but it wasn't enough for the women in our lives. That they couldn't a half-life wasn't sufficient. They have come, Borden Fallon have come to accept that the tragedy of that is something that they're willing to endure. For the sake of their art. and there again, there's there's something there. What is c what Chris, what are you trying to say? What are you trying to say to us, Chris?
thetakeup: Yeah, that I think that's really Yeah. Well, I think that's really beautifully put. And one thing about Nolan's filmmaking is there is a kind of blink and you might miss it. And I think that's kind of something where I didn't r ne I would thought about that, but hadn't necessarily picked up on that like that kernel of an idea there. Cause it's not it's it's within the reveal of the twist, which is like, you know, it's very brief within the film, but that is such a kind of great kernel of an idea to explore, you know, the way that those two have sublimated themselves into one in order for their art. Like that that's it's not that serious. It's not that serious, guys. Like Yeah. Yeah. It is tragic.
Andrew: Angie. No, I mean that's that's the I mean that is kind of the tragedy of it. It's not just that they've done this, but that they've done this for something so trivial in the grand scheme of things that that you know, stage magic on the British stage. I mean, this isn't even, you know, this is pre-media. Nobody's gonna see this
thetakeup: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: except the few hundred thousand people a few hundred or maybe a thousand people gathered for a few weeks at a particular theater in a particular city at a particular time.
thetakeup: Well, men love to read the best, I guess.
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: Is kind of one of the things that this is about too. And it
Andrew: But they but they but they say it I mean the tells are I mean one of the things I like about the screenplay is how shameless it is about foreshadowing and I know some people sort of stick on that and say, it's just so it's so gimmicky, but I kinda love it the more I watch it, the way that when they're going to see the Chinese ma the old Chinese magician, Angier can't figure it out. He can't wrap his head around it and Borden sees it instantly. He's like, It's not a trick in the sense of trapdoors and you know, mechanics, it's a trick Of discipline. It's a trick of somebody committing themselves so completely to something. He sees it right away. I mean, there's there's also that great scene early on where Borden's giving kind of a bad performance with a bird in a cage for Sarah before you the day he meets Sarah and her nephew, and the little kid says, sees it right away. He says, you killed it. And he's No, no, I didn't kill it. He's Yeah, but what about the brother? And he's
thetakeup: Yeah.
Andrew: like, I'm like, they are putting it.
thetakeup: They're
Andrew: Chris and John Chris and John are putting it right there in front for us to see. And I'm ashamed to say that I did not you made fun of the whole like, Fallon is very obviously Kristen Vale. I did not see it. I did not see it the first time I saw it.
thetakeup: No, I didn't get it the first time either. I didn't get it the first time either. But watching it the second time and I was watching it with my husband, I'm like,
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: you don't you don't just fucking see it. He's just right there and it's
Andrew: Ha ha ha.
thetakeup: just obvious. But but in Nolan's rhythm and the kind of musicality of of Nolan and the way in a particular I loved about Dunkirk, a film I don't love that I really appreciate, is like his films And increasingly over time have taken on a kind of overall montage. And
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: I think that's really interesting and a really thrilling way to to to make a film musically, but I think, you know, a lot of other filmmakers have tried to imitate that, and you know, that's kind of led to an entire like subgenre of subpar Chris Nolan imitations and I think especially within television you see that a lot
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: and and it's it's a way of like filling your yeah
Andrew: I wouldn't dispute that.
thetakeup: it's a way of kind of filling your phone with like an amount of portent but it's like kind of like empty thunder like it's just the sound and no no fury.
Andrew: Well, and it's interesting because there's another filmmaker who's very different from Nolan, who I think also operates on a similar wavelength, and that's Malik, the particularly late era Malik, I think. The his twenty first century output.
thetakeup: We are we I have to say I have to stop you because we are gonna talk about Malik a lot the next episode and that is all I will say about the next episode.
Andrew: Okay. I love it. I love it. I'm excited. I'm seeing that for for our listeners,
thetakeup: But no, but no what
Andrew: I am seeing Josh has seen the Odyssey and I am seeing Odyssey right after this show, so
thetakeup: no, what were you gonna say about about Malik though?
Andrew: No, no, just that what you talk about the musicality of it and the way that his entire Nolan's increasingly becoming a filmmaker whose entire like works can be regarded as giant montages. And I've always and I particularly I think late period Malik is kind of has tri drifted in that way as well. I mean, it's always kind of like that, but particularly like post to the to the wonder and everything that's followed, I think it's definitely felt like it's following that logic or that sensibility. but it's funny to think about because Noland is and Malik are such different filmmakers in terms of their philosophies and overall style, but in that way they're kind of becoming more similar.
thetakeup: I think everyone eventually gets to poetry, don't they? th
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: this to me is is not quite poetic, but it is it is kind of like i the momentum behind it is is
Andrew: The the looping, I mean, people talk about structure, right? And the looping qualities of no one's use of time. And I think here it's maybe maybe the dentist, you know, people people the tenet has become a meme, right? But because because the inherent structural shenanigans are baked into the plot itself. But I think the prestige is maybe the most intricate. version of this, and I say that as somebody who really loves Dunkirk and thinks that Dunkirk is maybe Nolan's best film, preodice. I l we just really like the way that there are like flashbacks nested within flashbacks in this film. And yet I never get lost. I've never once gotten lost in this film, which I think is a very hard
thetakeup: No, and that's
Andrew: hard thing to pull off.
thetakeup: it's really hard to pull off because there are no really kind of demarcations of time that you can use. There's no kind of like aging. There's
Andrew: There there are a few. Borden's well, there's Borden's fingers and there's Angier's limp. That helps a lot. Yeah.
thetakeup: Sure, sure. but I'm not tracking those things, but I'm also kind of like aware if I get lost, which I do, I've me
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: after all, I can always reorient myself. And the the kind of compression and and decompression of time is always interesting. I think it's most interesting as he moves through time. And I like I I love the way Tenant has all of that kind of really like sticky, overexplained science, pseudoscience to it. And it's
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: a film like that is is both kind of poetically interested in time, but also time in the the very narrative. but then Inception is so irritating to me in the same
Andrew: Really? Why?
thetakeup: way. It's that like just full pages of dialogue about how something works.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: And then me watching the way something works. And it's and it just hearing people talk about the way the film is about to work and then it doesn't it does the thing with it. Now my God. No,
Andrew: You don't like the explain it, do it kind of narrative logic?
thetakeup: no, no. I'm much I would much rather see hear the explainer.
Andrew: Mm-hmm. After the fact.
thetakeup: And then watch the thing yeah. And then watch the thing unfold the way it's not supposed to go. Something.
Andrew: Well, and the and the prestige is really interesting in that respect because it plays with that idea in almost every possible combination and direction. We get simultaneous, we get the simultaneous back and forth montages where we're explaining something as we're being sh as the trick is being executed, we're seeing it explained. We've got we get the explain it first, then do it. We get the do it, then explain it afterwards how it was done. Like Prestige is almost playing with every possible iteration of that idea in interesting ways, I think.
thetakeup: It is it is because it's it's in some ways a kind of proclamation of what he's about to do in his filmmaking. And i especially with this I think Yeah, an a statement
Andrew: Mm-hmm. Statement of intent, you might say.
thetakeup: of intent. And it feels more interesting as a statement of int intent than in a total film for me.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: I mean, let's talk about who Rebecca Hall and Scarlett Johansson. I I know the Nolan's women conversation. is a conversation that everybody has, seemingly.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: And maybe it's been had ad nauseum at this point we don't want Christopher Nolan writing strong women. But for them to be these kind of like cardboard cutout characters and I I I it just felt really
Andrew: don't I gotta push back against that a little bit, particularly for Hall, because I think the thing about I love about Hall as an actor is that she's she she never she never feels cardboard cut out. Like she she has this
thetakeup: Yep, she's she's great. She's great.
Andrew: certain she has this certain like I don't know what it is, like a a brittleness to a sort of willowy
thetakeup: Right.
Andrew: brittleness to her that I we always really love and the the hurt on her face in those scenes with Borden is just so acute to me. I mean, I don't disagree with the whole Nolan Nolan has can't write women thing. I I don't think that's incorrect. I don't think I think maybe it gets a bit overblown to like become Christopher Nolan is the worst Hollywood misogynist ever. Like, come on, what are we talking about here?
thetakeup: No, I I don't think that at all. It's it's not that even that he can't write women in so much that he can write women as well as he can write men, it's that he doesn't give women a lot to do. No. No. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. No, I think that's that's that's exactly how
Andrew: He doesn't he doesn't seem interested in their interiority, the way he's interested in the interiority of men. Yeah. And I think that's a valid criticism. I do love Rebecca Hall in this. Scarlett Johansson's fine. She her accents the wob of everybody in this movie, her accent's the wobbliest.
thetakeup: Yeah, yeah, and you're the one who can't call those things out. Yeah. D the year before, within a year, Scarlett Johansson and Hugh Jackman made two movies about magic together. And what is the other film?
Andrew: The other film? They made a movie together?
thetakeup: You're gonna everyone's gonna be so mad at me. That is Woody Allen's Scoop. I'm sorry.
Andrew: god. Okay. Yeah. Hugh Jackman wait a minute, Hugh Jackman was in Scoop?
thetakeup: Hugh Jackman and Scarlett Johansson are in scoop. Well, you shouldn't. And I'm sorry I brought it up. Yep.
Andrew: I don't remember that at all. I've successfully blocked I've successfully blocked out blocked that out. No, I mean, so I do want to talk about something with this film in the context of Nolan's wetter photography, and that's his interested in technology. And one thing I've really come to and w the gateway that my portal into this film increasingly is and this isn't just about Nolan's filmography as a whole. It's my p it's the portal through which I view this film as a standalone object as well. Is this the first film Where I think Nolan is really starting to grapple with humanity's relationship to technology. And I think in particular this film, the second Batman film and Tenet, it really comes out. And then obviously Oppenheimer, I feel like, is some ways the apotheosis of that. the the im very as much as Nolan gets sort of labeled as a cold or t technophilic filmmaker. My read on him has always been very and has have very ambivalent attitude toward technology. Even though he himself is a sort of technologically oriented filmmaker. We obviously he's he loves his cameras, he loves his he loves the the mechanics of it all. I've I th
thetakeup: But he's resistant to n to newer technologies.
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: And and to I think his credit, and that's what I'm talking about, the like textural values of his filmmaking are are some things I
Andrew: I th
thetakeup: respond to.
Andrew: if you saw my letterbox review from when I watched it yesterday, you know, the I think the the key that sort of unlocked this film a lot for me in recent years is one of Angier's final lines where he talks about w you know why he loved the the the adulation and the roar and the looks on the faces of his audience. And he says in as he's dying, he says the world is simple and miserable and solid all the way through. And I Just want to give I liked giving people a moment of awe and wonder. And that sort of s not quite nihilistic, but pessimistic materialism, I think, is maybe the closest we've ever gotten to an author statement from Nolan himself. But it's also very key, I think, to like why this film in this setting in this place. It's adapted from a novel. I haven't read the novel, so I can't speak to the source material. But a Victorian the Victorian setting is so key to the sort of first glimmers of this idea that this ambiguity or amb ambivalence, I should say, about the place of technology and how man, humankind is dealing with the increasing awareness, it's increasing awareness that the universe is not magical necessarily. It's not magical in the way that Our theistic and superstitious forbears might have thought it was magical. It's a magical in a completely different way. And wrestling with that and what our obligate in particular, I think, are obligations to future generations with respect to technology and its use has become a preoccupation for Nolan. And I'm really fascinated with this movie as sort of the beginning of that conversation where he's he's using this, he's almost using this duel. I mean, again, sort of the proximal plot is the duel but of wills between these two magicians. But really it's a for me, it's taken on the cast of a movie about, I mean, kind of the no country for old men thing, honestly, which is maybe the reason I like I enjoy it. I've increasingly enjoyed it is look at you smirking at me. The the dealing with the reality of a godless universe and what that means for us as a society and as a culture and how we how we're going to grapple with that. and in particular how technology interfaces with that question.
thetakeup: just and the only reason I was smirking at you is my cat has been a little like despondent lately and she is currently hopped up on the bed like flipping in circles. And it's only because daddy's podcasting right now, I guess. It's also she's being so fucking
Andrew: Zoomies are zoomies are engaging.
thetakeup: cute. If you hear my cat, just respect her.
Andrew: Ha ha.
thetakeup: Respect her. I I No, you don't
Andrew: So I don't know if d do I sound like I'm talking on my ass there?
thetakeup: you don't, but it's I just Like the way that this spurs the that kind of thinking in you does not in me.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: And I just it's something like what we were talking about last week with Isabel and Fateful Findings is like, is it there on the screen? And I just I think a lot of what's interesting to most people about what Christopher Nolan does isn't actually on the screen because For me, this is while it's like handsome and sturdy filmmaking, like it's it's also very kind of like proximal and dogmatic filmmaking in a way that I just maybe it's the point of the story of magicians is to bring it down to earth and have just like total coverage type filmmaking and like without a tripod, without like you know, ostentatious setup. And it is so unfair to this film to talk about it in that kind of context, is talk about the aesthetics and Christopher Nolan's development of his screen aesthetics after
Andrew: Mm.
thetakeup: having seen the Odyssey. Again, not talking about it, not talking about it. Definitely trying to not talk about it. But it just puts it in stark contrast.
Andrew: Well, I mean, I will say that I think this is maybe my favorite. again, haven't seen the Odyssey yet, but this is maybe my favorite Nolan Film from a productions design standpoint. I mean, period films always have kind of an edge in that respect. But I think just something about his sensibility and his attention to detail really suits this period so well. You know, I was again, I've seen it so many times. I now I know I know the beats. So I'm sort of I spent a lot of time watching it yesterday, sort of luxuriating in those details. Like the s the pattern on the cushioning inside the stagecoach that Q Jackman's riding up to cut the to Tesla's peak. it's like, okay, that didn't need to be there. It didn't need to be that like detailed and lovely, lush. Yeah, and just
thetakeup: Lush. It's luxurious. It's
Andrew: and but also like down to like the way that that prison yard looks and the the iron this c and the cobblestones and the iron of it all. There's something about his his his eye that really suits that. textural aspects of the production design really well.
thetakeup: But I just don't know that you would get that without having seen it so many times. Like he doesn't really kind of focus on the world as much as he like is inhabiting.
Andrew: I no, I disagree. I gotta disagree with that because that is a something I took away from the very first viewing. Like my first viewing was actually a bit more cold and was maybe my more like yours. But I'm like, yeah, this is a fine piece of entertainment and beautifully handsomely mounted, beautiful Victorian productive design. And that's all I thought about it. So that that was always sort of in my mind since the beginning. He doesn't, you know, we talked about some of your problems with Guilma de Toro's Frankenstein and how like the unmotivated camera and how there's a lot of There's a lot of like leering.
thetakeup: n night and day though. Like this film works.
Andrew: No, but what I'm saying is that as opposed to something I think with product with like production design or Rama films is is the filmmaker, maybe justly, is always attempted to sort of linger on things and let us drink in the beauty. I mean, George Lucas the the great genre filmmakers do this, George Lucas does it, P Peter Jackson does it, where they just linger on the beauty of the fantastical shit that they're showing us and let us soak in it.
thetakeup: David Lynch does it.
Andrew: David Lynch does it productive and any every like eve every sort of aggressively mid-period film does it. One of the things I really like about the prestige is that Nolan doesn't do that. Like he sh he he is clearly if you paw freeze frame it at any moment, it's clear that he's put it. Look, just look at Borden's workshop. It's an incredible piece of product production design. But he never sort of lushly lingers on it in an indulgent way. It's just part of maybe that's why I really respond to it, is that it it's just part of the background, but it requires so much attention to detail. again, it's sort of the magician's philosophy. It's attention to detail about things that don't really necessarily matter in the grand scheme of things because it's a blink and you'll miss it shot. But the obsession, quote unquote, to speaking of obsession, the obsession that Nolan and his collaborators and his entire crew always exhibit to these things, I think really comes through in the prestige because there's because the period detail is so important, but it's given so little sort of indulgent drink it all in, the shot length between shot length and just the types of shots he uses, it's not really he's not asking us to like s look at how much good of a job my art director did. There's no there's no shots like that in this movie, I don't think. So
thetakeup: That is a very interesting pen we're putting on the board. Okay? Okay.
Andrew: Okay. I'll save it. I'll save it.
thetakeup: Interesting pen for the board. I just I wanna get to where we vote this in or not, but
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: this is our first film starring David Bowie. So it actually stars David Bowie. I mean when David Bowie turned the corner, like, what the
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
thetakeup: fuck?
Andrew: I mean he walks he walks out in a field of like electrical discharge, like walks through it like he's coming onto stage like the he's coming out to do a show. I mean it's it's incredible.
thetakeup: Husband says, I mean they have to have someone big playing Tesla the way that they're hiding him. I'm like, bitch, you are not. You specifically are not prepared.
Andrew: Yeah, he's great. And there's some like cute mad textual stuff in his dialogue too, where he's like, you know, they wanted me to retire. I got a little too got a little too outrageous for them.
thetakeup: Yes. Yeah. yeah, there's a lot of fun stuff with him. I mean, just his his the camera absolutely loves him. Even when you know, his maybe his accent isn't completely successful. Sometimes he can
Andrew: Ha ha.
thetakeup: be a little stilted a performer. I think he's best when he's, you know probably I hate saying this. He's he was probably best behind the the Or in front of the camera when he was in his earlier days is what I'll say. And that's that's all I'll say when he was a little
Andrew: I mean, I love him. I genuinely love him in both Manifeld Earth and Labyrinth. I think he's really strong in those as a as a character. Yeah.
thetakeup: Yeah, he's he's just incredible. Like the screen loves him the way this the my ears love him. all right. All right.
Andrew: But you're right, the accent work is maybe not great. Like the I'm sure he knew that Nikola Tesla was Serbian, but whatever he's doing is not Serbian.
thetakeup: See, I I was about to ask you where Tesla was from because based upon
Andrew: Yeah, he was origin
thetakeup: that, I thought maybe like maybe like Eastern European maybe maybe he was just
Andrew: No, he's ethnically he is
thetakeup: drunk.
Andrew: he's ethnically he was ethnically Serbian and I guess which at the time I guess was part of the Austro-Hungarian Hungarian Empire. But that was part
thetakeup: Okay. Well then then that's
Andrew: of, I mean, I don't want to turn this into a a Tesla Edison podcast, but that was part of like the there's all kinds of weird like ethnic racist shit associated in the history of like 19th century invention. Like Tesla being sort of like
thetakeup: Well if you want.
Andrew: being sort of like the suspicious swarthy foreigner. was part of the reason that sometimes he struggled. I mean the same thing happened to Marconi and like nobody believed that a tr an Italian without a formal engineering education could have invented radio. Like it was like there is weird racist shit going on in the history of nineteenth century invention that this film vague only vaguely glances up against.
thetakeup: How far back into the archives do we have on this site? Not very far back. I reviewed the film The Current War, The Michael Almoreda. That had it
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
thetakeup: come out in like 20. No,
Andrew: Ethan Hawk, right? What's an Ethan Hawk in that?
thetakeup: you're thinking of maybe.
Andrew: It was so memorable you can't remember who was in it. Okay, hang on. I'll look it up. I'll look it up.
thetakeup: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, but that's a t that's a Tessa v. Edison flick that wants to be the prestige. And I'm like
Andrew: no, that was I'm sorry, I'm thinking of something else. That was Benedict Cumberbetch and Michael Shannon? No, Nicholas Holt, Nicholas Holt.
thetakeup: Daniel Brule? Michael Shannon. okay. Well, that sounds It's not good. It's not bad, but it's not.
Andrew: Lot of people in the wow, a lot of people in this movie actually. No. That so that wasn't between Tesla and Edison, that was between Westinghouse and Tes and Edison was the
thetakeup: my god, guys, stop fighting. Tesla's in it. Tesla's definitely in it. I remember that. Anyway, okay, Andrew Yes, David Bowie.
Andrew: David Boy, fun. Anyway, David Boy, fun.
thetakeup: Fine. Andrew, David Bowie belongs in the take up canon. This isn't my pick for him. It
Andrew: No, I know.
thetakeup: it's enough for me, dog. But what do
Andrew: But I'm voting for it. I'm voting for it.
thetakeup: you Wow? you okay. So we will discuss next week. What I think maybe you just did.
Andrew: Which is what? Double double a no one?
thetakeup: I think you I don't no, I'm not gonna plant any seeds in your head. We will discuss next week what I think you just did. Because anyway, you can probably like game out what I'm thinking based upon
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: what I've said about Christopher Nolan during this. And yet, the Odyssey? Yeah.
Andrew: All right, I'm excited. But no, I I I love the prestige. I've re it's really and I'm one reason I'm voting for it is it's it one of the reason I wanted to talk about it during this episode was because it it's a film that's grown on me. If it's a film like I love Dunkirk from the jump, I loved Oppenheimer from the jump. I think I've I've really come to like sort of late period Nolan a lot. And I still think films like The Dark Knight still stand up incredibly well, and Memento, but This is a film that's really grown on me the way other films in his filmography haven't necessarily. So I really wanted to highlight how sometimes you can have sort of a mid response to a film when it first sort of lands in your lap and you're not sure how to feel about it. And revisiting it maybe like reconfigures or rewires your brain, or you come stumble upon something that I don't want to say that there was like a key that helped me unlock it or anything, but it's really just grown in my estimation, and I've really come to love it and become sort of a a personal canon film for me. In a way that you if you had told me that in two thousand seven, I would have like, What the fuck are you talking about? That aggressively
thetakeup: Mm-hmm.
Andrew: mid mid magician Mivik movie? Why would I like that? So things things change. Opinion
thetakeup: Well maybe I'll get there
Andrew: opinions change over time.
thetakeup: maybe I'll get there someday, but I'm always like a person this is a conversation we didn't have and probably should have with this, but I I'm always a person's like every experience can be different with a film, no matter how many times you watch it. And I'm definitely
Andrew: No. Absolutely.
thetakeup: not I'm not a Paulette in in that you should only watch a film once. I've seen you know, I've seen probably
Andrew: No no. I love her, but no, no.
thetakeup: ten to twenty films like fifty times each and that's stupid. Just probably stupid.
Andrew: The ver I always come back to that line in from Twelve Monkeys about Vertigo. That the film doesn't change. You change. Every time you see it, it's different.
thetakeup: And that is the ultimate it is different film. Anyway.
Andrew: Ha ha ha.
thetakeup: okay. All right. So now I have to do it this episode. I kind of figured you might. I was hoping you wouldn't.
Andrew: Ha ha.
thetakeup: Because I'm gonna Okay, I'm gonna try fast. Far from Heaven, No Country for Old Men, Taxi Driver, Rushmore The Graduate, Secret Agent, One Battle After Another, Misricordia, Suspiria, Suspiria, Resurrection, Zodiac, After Sun, Messiah of Evil, Man with the Movie Camera, The Last Laugh, Hospital, Welfare. Killer of Sheep, Irma Vap. Army of Shadows, the prestige.
Andrew: Yes, you did it. Wow. W Yeah, maybe that's the lesson that you should just do it stream of consciousness instead of t torturing over it.
thetakeup: I did it. I did it. I did it. And I did it faster. my God. Well, yeah, I guess so. Just no f no filter. Don't think about it. okay. But twenty-two. Alright.
Andrew: Yeah. Wow.
thetakeup: We'd been very busy adding things lately. I think we need to probably get into some new releases to find some crap to
Andrew: Well we also have like we also like are always over on votes. So I feel like using votes I I think we should do more movies like this where maybe one of us is way more enthusiastic about the other so that we actually use some votes. Yeah. Metagaming it a little bit.
thetakeup: So we can burn some votes. Well, okay. So for now we've got one more thing. Every episode we round out with one more thing. One more thing. my god, I gotta think about one more thing.
Andrew: Ha ha
thetakeup: is it my turn? Is it your turn? no, we broke
Andrew: I don't rem I don't remember.
thetakeup: our memory. I feel like it's your turn. Are you ready? Cause I have mine. Okay, go ahead.
Andrew: Yeah, I've got mine. So I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep the magician thing going.
thetakeup: Hey.
Andrew: And talk about a film that is that I really like that is not well loved, I don't think. No No, we did not forget that.
thetakeup: Is it called The Illusionist? We did not bring up The Illusionist. The film about doubles had a double.
Andrew: Yes. It is another film about illusions though. a 1995 film called Lord of Illusions, directed by no less than Clive Parker. Based it's a weird movie that I fucking love. so yeah, so the
thetakeup: That's a weird fucking movie. It is tell us about it. Sorry.
Andrew: so for those who don't know, this is 1995 film, kind of like I don't think it was I think it was kind of a box office bomb, I'm not sure. And it's not very well regarded except like under certain in certain like horror cult circles. Directed by Clive Barker, based on his own novella, The Last Illusion, but the movie is confusingly titled The Lord of Illusions, starring Scott Bacula as a recurring character from Barker's overall cinematic univer literary universe, called
thetakeup: I did not know that.
Andrew: Yeah, Harry Damore is a sort of a a P.I. who also has like an occult bent and some not necessarily like occult abilities, but like He's familiar with the occult. He's kind of a John Constantine figure where he's where he's like he's willing to take cases that sort of deal with the occult. and he crops up in a few of Barker's novels and novellas. I wanna say the most prominent of which is The Great and Secret Trail, which is a great novel. huge, huge, dense, but very great novel. but So the film doesn't like give us any of that context, although it does sort of imply like it sketches that character and says, okay, this is a guy, you sort of know the archetype. He's a PI, but he also has like a cult expertise. and he's sort of drawn into this weird Manson-esque cult conspiracy involving real act real stage illusionists who are doing quote unquote real magic, sort of clandestinely behind the scenes. It's just sort of a fascinating film. It's not I won't say you didn't say that it's great, but I've revisited it several times and love it every time. It's got a real stacked cast. Kevin J. O'Connor, Fam K. Jensen, and maybe like her most effortlessly beautiful and gorgeous. Daniel Von Bargen, who is sort of a a great character actor who's cropped up on like Seinfeld and sort of but playing like a really great vile villain in this movie. This sort of like master wizard slash, I don't know what you call what they even called them the movie, sorcerer, who's like also like a cult leader. it's just a weird movie with a lot of great I won't say the effects have aged all that well or anything, but it's got a weird atmosphere, sort of slightly transgressive. You know, Barker's a queer filmmaker, queer writer. It's got a slightly weird transgressive quality to it that I really enjoy. A lot of really sicko energy energy and imagery in it. you know, shit like you know, using tarot imagery, using body modification, using just w like why does the villain have a giant horrifying male mandrel on a chain as like a pet? They never explain it, but it's so weird and creepy.
thetakeup: You know, it's so s it's so specific to the time too. Barker's work. It
Andrew: Very nineteen ninety five, yeah, yeah.
thetakeup: yeah, I can't I don't know if maybe he styled the Times or the Times styled him, but it is it I'm sorry, it was released theatrically, correct? It feels very showtime. But
Andrew: Yes, yes, it was a theatrical film. Like a direct to video. Yeah, if well it feels very direct to video, yeah.
thetakeup: but like only in the the kind of Practical effects being not great, the CG not being very, you know, with
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: the time. it's just it's still just like Barker's incredible original visions are still really thrilling to watch. I'm not like a huge Barker head or anything, but anytime I crop come across one of his works and I sort of just randomly put this on one night, I'm still just really interested in his world.
Andrew: And Barker's approach to I think he's often sort of viewed as a horror filmmaker and create he's the obviously the creator of Hellraiser and the night breed and so forth, but he's also a really fascinating filmmaker about like he's a sort of a fan he he had he has fantasy novels that have like an occult tinge to them, and his views like his very idiosyncratic, slightly queer approach to magic and and the supernatural overall and The cosmologies he creates with his novels are sort of fascinating. And this film is sort of a small boar peek into that. It's maybe the only, you know, I don't think we're ever gonna get like a feature film or a mini-secrets version of one of his truly like great works, like Magica, but in terms of like being a very cool small boar peer peek into his weird cosmology and his weird approach to the supernatural, I think it's a really it's a treat. And it has like great production design, the whole conceit of like Magic hiding behind the veil of real-world magicians is sort of compelling in its own right. He actually you got permission to use the magic castle in Los Angeles as a location and some of the scenes occur there and it's it's just very cool and beautifully
thetakeup: Talk about a place I never want to be in.
Andrew: beautifully let it just makes me think of like arrested development jokes that the Society
thetakeup: Exac exa exactly.
Andrew: of of Mus magicians. But
thetakeup: You know, we didn't talk about that with the prestige. The other thing is is I just can't work up
Andrew: You can't
thetakeup: any enthusiasm for a magician. It's very Job. It's very drinking something of four times for money.
Andrew: They're called they're called illusions, dad. Yeah.
thetakeup: It's still funny. Okay.
Andrew: The so yeah, I mean I think that conceit is sort of fascinating. And Barker's not someone I think people I think people look down on him as a filmmaker. You know, he's made, I think, three films h Hellra original Hellraiser, Nightbreed, and Lord of Illusions, all of which I love. I think they very do very I Lord of Illusions is probably the the least good, but it's still worth your time. seeking
thetakeup: Sure.
Andrew: seeking out on on video, but he isn't often talked about as like a good filmmaker, I think. And some of that is him being very self deprecating about his own directorial skill. But I think all three of those films are really solid, sort of indie horror entries and really worth your time.
thetakeup: Yeah, it's I just looked it up, it's on Tubi right now. So so it's
Andrew: awesome. Awesome.
thetakeup: free with commercial interruptions. You know what? As these things go these days, Tubi is a really great resource for it has an extensive library, I will say. I'm not about the the commercial interruptions, but the way they do it, it seemed seems algorithm algorithmically timed well.
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: and the amount of ads or not, so this is like a co endorsement for that film on Tubi. But
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: yeah, Tubi's all right, guys. It's fine.
Andrew: It's another resource, you know, and it's and it's free, so use it where you can get it.
thetakeup: I mean sometimes like when we were kids, the way Andrew and I were wa quote unquote watching movies was like
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: on they had this thing called like cable television.
Andrew: I'm even before that. I remember watching all those Godzilla movies on UHF stations broadcast on Sunday Sunday afternoons, like terrible English
thetakeup: my god. What a mess.
Andrew: dubs all cut up. But still that's like that was my entry point. How how I learned to watch them. So to me's just the modern
thetakeup: Yeah. What a mess.
Andrew: version of that, right?
thetakeup: Well, so much better. Okay. All right. but so find
Andrew: How about you?
thetakeup: that on to be where do people find you?
Andrew: AY at seventy-six on Letterboxd and on my writings on thetaup.com. I finally am back to writing. I wrote an Evil Dead Rise review this week. So hopefully all that'll be a more regular thing. At least with horror, I'm a I'm sorry, Evil Dead Burn.
thetakeup: Evil Dead Burn. I would I would like an Evil Dead Rise. wait. That is a a candidate because we did talk about Evil Dead Rise on this podcast. But yes, Evil Dead Burn on
Andrew: Yeah. That's true. So hopefully
thetakeup: the pickup.
Andrew: hopefully I will be getting back to writing more regularly, at least about horror, so
thetakeup: Well, my one more thing is actually a podcast. do you know who
Andrew: Ooh, fun.
thetakeup: Leon Nafak is? You're familiar with the podcast Slowburn?
Andrew: I've heard of it. I know nothing about it.
thetakeup: Slowburn was a series that came out a few years ago about initially about the Watergate scandal. And it was really it had a purpose in talking about like the titular Slow Burn. was about the way that scandal unfolded and how much time it took into investigating what exactly happened at Watergate Hotel. And
Andrew: Mm.
thetakeup: it was a kind of hopeful narrative. It's like we've
Andrew: Mm.
thetakeup: been here before, we can endure, we being Americans and you know, eventually they would do seasons on the Clinton Lewinsky, the Clinton Clinton impeachment trial,
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: and and some other things. But Leon Nafak has become a kind of a journalist who's well known in podcasting, so sort of like a Sarah Koenig figure of serial. but he's got something that's completely different. It's called OnlyFantasy, and it is a six-part podcast series about OnlyFans. And it
Andrew: wow.
thetakeup: is the way that Leon Nafak and his cohorts have their finger on the pulse of sociology and politics in Slowburn and really bringing things to a granular, like personal level is is completely writ large in OnlyFantasy, which is OnlyFans is a website where content creators can sell their content. But what has ended up happening is that it's become a website largely for sex work. And
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: he has an OnlyFans creator named an OnlyFans creator called named Gracie Cannan. And she's co-hosting the show, and they are going through each episode and and They're doing like interviews, but interviewing, they make us stop at an OnlyFans house, which is
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: like a house where a bunch of OnlyFans creators go and live.
Andrew: It's just the yeah, it's just the sex work version of like a YouTube house, yeah.
thetakeup: Yes, exactly. But then they go into like the kind of relationships these creators have with their subscribers. And I didn't, you know, I not to get too personal, I didn't I know what OnlyFans is, but I did not understand what it actually is, in that
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: it is a kind of way for to create these fantasies for people of these para Help
Andrew: Social.
thetakeup: these parasocial relationships with these content providers that you are paying for. I thought it was just like kind of like an amateur porn factory, and it's a lot more than that. And it's billions of dollars worth
Andrew: Yes.
thetakeup: of that. It has become quite the industry. but it really gets down to personal stories about OnlyFans and it's it's just such a fascinating and kinky and fun. Listen,
Andrew: Mm-hmm.
thetakeup: but at the same time talking about the the realities of it and gets way beyond
Andrew: The business of it all, yeah.
thetakeup: any the business of it all. Yeah. and the what can be kind of horrifying about it too, but it it gets way far more into the weeds than any episode of Euphoria season three did, in OnlyFans Content Creation. And just trust me, it tried.
Andrew: Well, Sam Sam Levinson always behind the curve.
thetakeup: Yeah. Yeah. Very much behind the curve. But that's only fantasy you can find it. it's
Andrew: That's cool.
thetakeup: it's all available now, but it it was an Audible exclusive, but you can get it on any podcatcher. so yeah, OnlyFantasy by
Andrew: Fascinating.
thetakeup: Leon Nafak. And then you can find me not on OnlyFans. although this is my experience with OnlyFans, it's like I have Friends who do it. And one time I was talking to my therapist about a job I was doing.
Andrew: Mm. Mm.
thetakeup: She was like, You should quit your job and do OnlyFans. And I was like, Should my therapist be saying that?
Andrew: Yeah, that's my question. That seems bad.
thetakeup: Interesting. Interesting. so it's always
Andrew: Maybe it's like maybe it's like they're getting paid under the table by OnlyFans, the way that doctors get paid by pharmacists like pharmacology companies.
thetakeup: You know what? Maybe maybe she was just telling me she's attracted to me. Or that I could be successful.
Andrew: Jokes on jokes on her.
thetakeup: Yeah, she's my therapist. She knew. or you know what? Maybe she thinks I could just be successful at that. How do you like that? Well, that was also five years ago, so. Anyway,
Andrew: Yeah.
thetakeup: but you can find me elsewhere online at OK JoshRay and all of us at the Takeup STL.
Andrew: we're heading to Ithaca. Hope maybe it'll take a while, but we're gonna get there. It'll take a while to get there.
thetakeup: We're we're heading f from Ithaca back to Ithaca with Odysseus and his crew. And good lord. so we're we are fast forwarding 20 years. His latest film, Christopher Nolan's latest film, you've probably already seen it. maybe once, maybe twice. I know someone this film has been out for four days in the States. I know someone who's seen it three times.
Andrew: Jesus.
thetakeup: I We'll be seeing it again. And I don't do that often, but I d I saw it in seventy mill meeting.
Andrew: Especially not for Chris No for Chris Nolan movies. You don't usually do that.
thetakeup: No, no, I don't think so. I am interested to see it. I saw it. I'm not gonna what am I talking about it? I will talk about it next week. All right.
Andrew: No. All right. I'll see you on the I'll see you back at Ithaca next week.
thetakeup: Until then, thank you to Ethan Tarantella for being president of the bank. for Kayla McCullough for social media, theme music by AMP, and until next time. I couldn't think of a damn Bowie song.
Andrew: Ha ha.
thetakeup: What the I love David Bowie and I couldn't think of his song. Let's dance Let's Dance You could always do something. I don't I don't know man.
Andrew: I'm not sho y I'm the magician, you're the showman.