#173 - Olivia Amber

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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
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I'm your host of James L'Oriello.
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And today I'm so excited to welcome Olivia Amber to the show, former collegiate All-American Nordic skier, athlete for the North Face, and most recently set the FKT on the Norman's 13 route, which is a high route in the Sierra of uh California.
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Super excited to get to catch up with Olivia.
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We talked about a lot of really fun stuff.
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Uh for starters.
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She is a former geology major, which we definitely connected on.
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And uh yeah, we talked about all you know her kind of passion uh for running and climbing and kind of combining the two.
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Uh we talked about her most recent uh race, which is not too long ago, a top five finish at the Transgrand Canaria Marathon, uh, and a whole bunch more.
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I hope you guys enjoy her her story.
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Um interesting journey, and uh yeah, just a big fan.
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So without further ado, Olivia Amber.
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Hey now.
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This is the Steep Stuff Podcast.
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All right, Olivia Amber, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
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How's it going?
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Good.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, stoked to chat.
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This is uh this is a fun one.
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I uh obviously had been just was following uh doing some, we were doing research for uh the Transgrand Canaria race.
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It was the marathon that popped up, and I was like, oh, who's this who's this American?
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And I started doing some research and I had found out about Normans and stuff like that.
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I'm like, how have I never had you on the podcast before or or gotten a chance to chat?
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So I'm glad we were able to uh do this.
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So I'm very excited to learn more kind of about your story and your background.
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Yeah, well, thanks for having me on.
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And honestly, I it's super fair.
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I took kind of a multi-year break from competing due to some health stuff.
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So I was definitely not on the scene for a minute.
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So working my way back in.
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I'm I'm glad to hear that.
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I'm glad to hear things are going well and progressing better.
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I know it seems like you've had like two uh, I guess you call this a I guess a comeback tour, right?
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Like a little top five at TGC and then second at Zion.
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That's pretty, it's pretty exciting.
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Let's get into those.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's been a journey to say the least.
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But yeah, last year I had my first races back, and one of them was actually I flew over to the inaugural UTMB Monte Rosa race, which was super cool.
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And I did they market it as the 100K, but it's actually 80K.
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So it's one of those.
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Um, so I did the 100K in quotes.
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Um, but it's actually 80k, but it's and it was a super verdy race, and that was kind of like my first like jump back into like really trying to like compete while I was racing.
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And that kind of style, of course, really suits me.
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It was just a lot of vert, a lot of ascending.
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I used my poles, like that is the stuff I love.
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And since then I've been really trying to figure out how to become more durable on flats and downhills and really actually become like a runner again in a lot of ways, um, which I know is funny to say.
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But um, yeah, it's it's been really fun to try and test um those those sort of more weakness, weaknesses out again, which I think I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to do um had I not had to take time off to some health stuff.
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So yeah, it's been fun.
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I like it.
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I'm glad to hear it full.
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I'm glad to hear you're you're back and you're back at it.
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Um, we'll get into some of that stuff.
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But first, before we get started, I want to learn more about like your backstory.
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I did some research, so you're from Wisconsin, you're you're living in Bishop now.
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Um obviously you have this Nordic background, which I want to get into, but talk about the early years.
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Like, what was it like kind of growing up in the Midwest and doing the Midwest thing?
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Yeah, so I grew up in a very small town called Lake Nabagaman in Wisconsin.
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It's like 800 people.
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Um, and so as you can imagine, in the Northwoods, it's you know fairly flat and a lot of snow.
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Winter is the sort of primary season up there.
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And so I just kind of fell into cross-country ski racing, not just because of the climate, but also my family was just really into it recreationally and it was just a really cool part of the culture up there.
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And so I just started doing it and I really just became so passionate about it.
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It was like truly my entire life for so long.
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And so I pursued that through college.
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I actually signed to continue skiing professionally post-college and then made the decision not to and took a tech job in San Francisco instead.
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Moved to San Francisco and was there for quite some time until moving to Bishop last year.
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But yeah, I would say my endurance roots run quite deep in the Nordic world.
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Um, and you know, if you know anything about that sport, it's very aerobic-based, but obviously there's a large component of strength as well.
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And I also did a lot of running training for it.
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So I, while I didn't really compete or focus on running until my adult life, it was still definitely a huge part of my life, uh, pretty much since childhood.
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That's crazy.
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I feel like you Nordic people, not to like put you in a in a box there, but I feel like the Nordic people are always the fittest.
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I mean, look, I mean Sam Hendry, Sophia Laukley, yourself.
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So many people transition over from that discipline.
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And I feel like there's like obviously there's a combination of different things.
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Obviously, you have a ginormous aerobic base that transitions really well for trail running, but also like the way you guys train, heart rate base generally, and things like that, um, seems to work really well when it comes to trail and mountain running.
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Uh, there's so I mean I could I could list out a million things, but would you agree with that as far as that transition is just a very seamless one for a lot of uh Nordic athletes?
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Definitely.
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I think the one thing that I've really been curious about, I'm excited to play around with more, is we live in the VO2 Max range a lot with cross-country skiing.
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Our races are a lot shorter.
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Um, but it's interesting because in the ultra landscape, it's so endurance-based.
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But like the races I seek out, I'm not living in the VO2 Max window at all.
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Like I'm trying to keep it pretty chill, which is also what a lot of my Nordic ski training looked like.
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So it's kind of cool to like take how I used to train and like apply it to like a race setting.
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And that's been really fun.
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But I'm curious to see, just because from that like VO2 aerobic base standpoint, Nordic ski athletes tend to have like quite high VO2 maxes, and obviously that doesn't always translate to different performances at by any means, but I do think it's really interesting because I definitely feel that within myself when I can do like a VK.
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I'm like, oh, I actually do a lot better than I think I'm going to.
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Um, it's interesting.
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Do you think?
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I mean, I know you kind of train, you're kind of like uh, as far as distances go.
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I mean, I've seen obviously you've had success at Broken Arrow.
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Last year, was it last year you you um went to race, what was it, Mont Blanc Marathon?
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You've done Broken Arrow a few times.
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So you do you are very successful at a lot of these short trail races, and you also like the long stuff.
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Do you kind of live in that world back and forth between the two, or do you do you prefer one versus the other?
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You know, I definitely prefer the mountainous terrain and the technical terrain.
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And I just really love rock climbing.
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And so I really like to sort of see how I can push myself in the more technical landscapes like in the mountains.
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So I prefer races like that, but I'm curious, I don't just because that's my preference, I still don't really know if that's actually what I'm better at in a race setting.
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Cause I also really try to keep things like pretty dialed.
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So I don't really want to fall.
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I like definitely dial it back a lot, especially when it comes to downhill running.
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I really have struggled with that a lot in the past.
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And so yeah, I think it's interesting because those types of courses also really lend well to people who are willing to just like full send on the downhills.
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And I'm just still trying to figure out like how do I keep my ankles like okay for that?
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My ski boots definitely did not help the ankle strength.
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I would say that is a weakness, I think, coming from Nordic.
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Our ski boots did not lend well to strong ankles.
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Fair enough.
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Fair enough.
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I have I have another Midwest question for you.
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Uh it's kind of interesting and maybe a generality, but like I think of like uh my buddy Cam Smith, right?
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He he came from the Midwest.
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A lot of gritty people, like a lot of gritty people in our sport that are very tough hard workers, um, seem to kind of come out of the according to Walters, another one.
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She's I think she's from Minnesota.
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Jen Lichter, she's also from I didn't know Jen was been a lot of time in Wisconsin, yeah.
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Yeah.
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No shit.
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Huh well there you go.
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I mean, that proves my point even further.
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Is there something to this not seeing daylight during the winter for like a really long period of time just develop kind of this long like amount of grit for you guys or something?
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Maybe there could be something to that.
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I also think just there's so much forest, like where I grew up, especially in the North Woods, you just kind of find yourself recreating and spending your free time just like outside and in very isolated woods-like settings.
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And I think it just it in a way there is like a sort of nostalgia anywhere I go to race and ultra.
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I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is like where like I don't know.
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There's just a lot that I can pull from, just like playing in the woods as a child.
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It's it's yeah, I don't know, it's kind of a part of part of that lifestyle too, I guess.
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But that's interesting.
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Well, there's gotta be this, like, there's gotta be some sort of yeah, like woodsy or I guess outdoors can no, seriously, I like outdoors type of connection.
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Yeah, I I did a I I spent uh a summer and a winter in in Michigan during grad school, and I was like, yo, I didn't during the winter, I didn't see the sun for a very long time.
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I was like, It's probably June.
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And you're like, it's midwinter.
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Yeah, it's like how do people do this?
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I mean, the most beautiful summers with the wildflowers and everything, don't get me wrong, but yeah, yeah, it's uh you gotta have some grit for sure.
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For sure.
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Yeah, it it was very cold and snowy, but that was where Nordic skiing was really a great, great sport.
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Fair enough.
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Fair enough.
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So you're in Bishop now.
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Talk about that because it's kind of I feel like this mammoth bishop area, although I've never been there.
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Um, from what it seems like is a very big gateway to a lot of those big mountains in the high sea era.
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Um talk about what it's like to live and kind of train out of that area.
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Yeah, so I was coming over here all the time over the past decade, living in San Francisco.
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It's, you know, not that close, but close enough.
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It was definitely a stretch for a quick weekend to make it all the way to the east side in the Man of Bishop area.
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But I just always tried to make it over here as much as I could.
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And so um, yeah, there are amazing gateways to the big mountains in the Sierra Range.
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The 14ers are all kind of uh just out of Bishop, essentially, like just south.
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Um, and then continuing down the 395 corridor.
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So the access to really high peaks is like right out my front door.
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And Mammoth is situated kind of more in the mountains.
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Bishop's more in the high desert.
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So in Mammoth, you're gonna be like sleeping at 8,000 feet.
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You're like in the snow, the tons of snow that mammoth tends to get.
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And it's just an amazing the trail access, the lakes, like it's just an amazing, it's just, it's really an amazing place.
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Um, and then down at Bishop, it's a little bit lower.
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Also unreal trail access, but you actually can get those trails throughout the winter and those shoulder seasons when mammoth still has like 20 feet of snow.
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Um, so it's kind of cool because either way, there's seasonality because in the desert, it's so hot.
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I am not gonna be running in Bishop pretty soon.
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It's just gonna be way too hot to do that.
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So then I'll sort of migrate up um a bit closer to Mammoth.
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And so, and the mammoth folks come down here, and so it's it's kind of a fun um sort of mecca to just like piece together altitude training, fast like trail training, but then also there's insane vert.
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It's just like so endless, like so much vert and um techie trails to you know, gravel roads, like you name it, it's here, and it's also, you know, a really isolated small town place.
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Like there's no no big city um within a couple hour drive, like Reno and Vegas are kind of the closest, and they're like three to four hours um, roughly.
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So yeah, it's a cool place.
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I was gonna say, like, does how how do you like that?
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Because I feel like for California, when people think of Cali, they think of uh generally LA, San Francisco, a lot of the more populous areas.
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Um how do you like like the smaller town kind of atmosphere vibe?
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Yeah, it's definitely in a way, it feels kind of like a homecoming, just because where I grew up was so rural, and then where I went to college was in pretty rural place in Maine as well.
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And so moving to San Francisco is really the big culture shock for me, and it was amazing.
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I loved my experience there.
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I just think it's like one of the best running trail running, especially communities you can find anywhere.
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And yeah, the trails are just incredible.
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But I just really, really love the mountains and I really love being able to go skiing and I really love rock climbing, and those aren't things that I could get living in San Francisco.
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And so I really decided after, you know, quite a few years to make a move over here.
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And I was coming this way, not because I was like, I seek isolation.
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Like I love my friends and community, and there are people that do that, and I'm like I was seeking it more just for the activities that I really love to do.
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And what's cool about over here, sort of different from where I grew up, is it is the access to like a lot of different urban areas is quite close for me growing up.
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There was just Minneapolis, and that was like four and a half hours away.
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And it's just different.
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And so, but people come here for the activities.
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Um, they're not here just because they've been here for generations.
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Like there's also that, but there's just so much diversity and different types of people and why they're here and how long they've been here, and there's like, you know, the farming culture, and there's just like so many things that like bring me back to what it was like growing up, but also what it's been like for me living in San Francisco.
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So I feel like it's a nice little bridge for me.
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Well, definitely, you know, more rural uh than where I just was in SF.
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But um, yeah, I kind of feel like I've found like this little happy medium in the Venn diagram of the things that that I personally like.
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I like that.
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I got a question though, as a professional athlete, this is something I think of all the time.
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I'm on I live in Colorado and uh like for my friends that live like deep in the mountains, I'm like, it's always a pain in the ass.
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Like if you got to train and like or go somewhere for a race, especially to fly internationally.
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Is it is it a pain in the neck for someone like you?
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Like, for instance, like getting the Transgrand Canary, like that's like it's like five flights, right?
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Like, what is it like uh trying to get out for some of these races and stuff like that?
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Does that make it a little trickier?
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You know, yes, definitely.
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But I do have to say there actually is United actually is starting to operate out of Bishop.
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There's a little bit of seasonality to it.
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There's like a little bit of a shoulder season in the spring and fall where they shut it down for like a month at a time.
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Um, but they do fly direct to San Francisco and then Denver in the winter, which actually is really I use that a ton over the past year that I've lived here, like truly so much.
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Um, so that actually has helped a lot.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:28.879
It definitely extends the travel by a little bit, especially given they are pretty limited in their flight schedules.
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:35.279
But yeah, I mean, if that keeps rolling and they expand more air service, it's only gonna make it easier for me.
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:43.519
But at the same time, um, I've having grown up in a place where I was literally four and a half hours from an airport.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:48.879
I'm not, it's not like this totally new thing for me to be like, I need to get somewhere to go race.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.559
Like I grew up cross-country ski racing and I need to be able to get places for that.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.480
And so um, I'm just kind of like having to go back to those ways.
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:01.759
But it's actually really cool because there's kind of this like more shared economy culture here.
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.680
Instead of having to say it's like, well, just go get your own$200 Uber, you know.
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.640
Here it's like people are always trying to help.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.640
And it's like, oh, I'm trying to get here.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.920
Oh, you can borrow my car.
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:14.799
Oh, you know, I know so and so who can help you with this.
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:21.440
And people really try to help um everyone get places or, you know, just yeah, I don't know.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.920
There's a little bit more of that, which I've also really loved.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.839
So not to not to sell out your area too much, because I'm just very curious.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:28.720
Like, what is it?
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:30.880
What is uh like what is the athlete life there?
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.599
Like, is there a lot because I know Mammoth has a good amount of professional athletes?
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.920
I know Danny, Tim, uh Rod, there's quite a few that live like up in the Mammoth area.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:40.720
Bishop, yeah, I feel like it's probably pretty.
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.599
I mean, I guess they kind of everybody flows back and forth, but yes, is there a big like community there?
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:51.680
Yeah, I mean, you there's actually, I mean, we've got the ski community with Mammoth Mountain.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.920
There's actually like a a lot of professional climbers are here all the time.
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:58.079
People base themselves out of Bishop, especially.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:00.880
Bishop is like kind of a climbing Mecca.
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:09.759
Um, so there is a really shockingly strong presence of professional elite level athlete in the area.
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:22.400
From a running standpoint, it's interesting because Mammoth Track Club is actually like an incredible and really um high performing team that you know is based in Mammoth.
00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:28.960
And I think actually they just had, I think Carrie Elwood just got 10th at Boston today, and she's Mammoth Track.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.279
So yeah, you know, it's yeah, we've got we've got some serious athletes here.
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.680
But yeah, that's like Dina Castor and Andrew Castor.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:48.559
Like they um they live in Mammoth and they have that going and a lot, like truly a lot of training and for the folks who live up in Mammoth happen down in Bishop in the winter just because of the snow.
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.480
And so there's so much crossover.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.799
And so I see uh, you know, we all train together and see each other a lot.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:03.519
And for me, just because I also really love to climb and um I I was coming from San Francisco and I haven't lived in the snow in like 10 years.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.880
I hate to admit this.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:11.759
I was like, it might be kind of nice to live in Bishop for a bit just to like transition back into winter again.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:12.400
Fair enough.
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.880
I don't really know if I'm like down for shoveling like 20 feet of snow right now.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.839
So also there was that for me.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:20.720
But yeah.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.160
I couldn't agree more, dude.
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:31.680
I in the springs where I'm at, like we had like no snow this year, and I was like, this is amazing for running weather because you uh you get so fit because like you you know, you don't have to worry about the snow.
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.000
Obviously, it's terrible for wildfires, it's not good.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.720
But other than that, it's been amazing for yeah.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:44.319
It's something to be said about not having winter, but just being just far enough away to where you where you can ski, but you don't have to live, you don't have to live in it, you know.
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.480
Yeah, I was like, this is kind of sweet.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.880
So I agree.
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:55.279
All right, so when I was peeping your Instagram before this uh this conversation, and I saw you like you do like big wall climbing.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.599
Like I saw you like there's a photo of you like doing L Cap.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.559
That's bananas.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:19:59.599
Talk about this.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.119
Talk about uh that I don't know, how did you get into rock climbing?
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:04.240
How did you find that love?
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.319
Because that's very different than running and and uh obviously skiing.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.599
So totally.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:16.960
I mean, I do have to say there is something, there are a lot of similarities with the mentality of big wall climbing and ultra running.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:18.720
Um, like a lot.
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:23.440
Risks, different mentality though, very similar.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:27.680
Um, but I got into rock climbing actually more with my dad growing up.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:40.640
He and his brothers had like a tree service, and so they like loved ascending things, and he kind of used to go climb just back in the hippie area out of his motorcycle era out of his motorcycle and just like traveled around the west doing that whole scene.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:47.599
And so yeah, he just like would always share photos and talk about all these like amazing places to go climbing.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:59.279
And I just kind of grew up with this like idealized vision of like what being in the mountains was like, and that part of that vision was rock climbing.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:07.680
So I think that kind of informed how I wanted to explore the air those areas once I, you know, had more autonomy as an adult.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.079
But yeah, I like grew up, climbed a bit.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.000
Um, my parents were both school teachers.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:19.440
So in the summers, we could like road trip around because with the teacher schedule, you they also have the summers off.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.519
Um, but with the teacher paycheck, we definitely were not flying as a family anywhere.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:25.200
So road trips it was.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:32.000
And so yeah, we like spent a lot of time just like raging around the mountains.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.079
And the closest ones are actually the bear tooths from where I grew up.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:42.720
So we would like drive across North Dakota and then just like go straight to Red Lodge and then access the Beartooths and just like I don't know.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:49.680
I just grew this like affinity for rocks and climbing, and I ended up studying geology and GIS in college.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:50.960
So I was like, I love rocks.
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:51.440
Wait, really?
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.039
I have a geology undergrad.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:54.079
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:55.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:56.960
I'm like, cool, I studied my lifestyle.
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.440
Did you have a senior did you have a senior field camp?
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.519
No, that'd be sick though.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:10.960
That's how I found out about like Colorado being like the West is like I so we had a six-week field camp where we just like camped throughout all the national parks and like it was like a capstone class for six months.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.920
That's incredible.
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.039
Yeah, that's how I found out before the San Juans were like cool.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.119
I knew about the San Juans because we my my Russian professor took us up there.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:19.920
It was dope.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.119
That's so sick.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.960
Wait, oh my god, I wish we had had that.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:23.359
Yeah.
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.559
No, I definitely did not.
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:35.039
I had to like do a whole capstone with like researching and like a small little area close to Waterville, Maine, which is where I was I went to Colby, which is like in Waterville.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.400
Um, so yeah, not that cool.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:40.319
Dang.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:44.799
We'll talk, we'll talk to you allogy in a bit, but I'll let you finish what you were talking about for rock climbing.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:45.839
That's that's funny.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.279
Yeah, that was just kind of how I fell in love with it.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:54.480
And then when cross-country ski racing took over, it definitely took a little bit of a backseat.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:59.759
I really did not climb at all in college, but I always like really loved it.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:09.680
I some of my favorite like just books and stories, and I don't know, I like loved collecting guidebooks with rock climbing beta.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:10.960
Like it's just funny.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.599
Um yeah, I think I one of my favorite like posters was Peter Croft on like Astro Man.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.599
Like, I don't know, it's just it's just a thing that I really loved.
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:37.759
So um yeah, I guess once I moved to SF and was like close to Yosemite and actually like closer to some of that like serious climbing culture, I started exploring it a little bit more for myself and was like, wow, this sport is so cool.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:43.519
But the systems and the barrier to entry are certainly high.
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.279
Like, especially as I'm not like a huge like risk seeker.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.960
Like I really do like to keep things um tight.
00:23:53.279 --> 00:24:01.839
But um I yeah, I like really wanted to learn more, but it's also, you know, uh hard to teach yourself.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:08.480
But I tried as best I could and you know, made some friends who were into it and we would, you know, try and go figure things out.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.079
And it just kind of kept snowballing from there.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.599
I was like, what more can I do?
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:12.480
What more can I do?
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:20.559
And um I kind of got it in my head that it'd be really interesting to like learn how to aid climb and maybe try a big wall.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:26.960
And I was like, oh, it would probably be good to do something like Washington column first, which is more of like a day mission.
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.640
And then I was like, that's great.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:29.599
I'm gonna go big wall.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.240
I should just like see what I can do going up L Cap.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:33.839
And so yeah.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:34.480
All right.
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:35.920
So I have a couple questions for this.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:39.599
The first thing is like, because you come in with a high level of fitness, right?
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.880
You're not an average person.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.599
You come in and you're you have this Nordic background.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.240
So anything you touch, you're automatically like that's not a barrier to entry for you, is the fitness aspect.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.200
It's the muscular endurance which you work on and then the skills.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:58.960
How long did it take you to actually like start to get like relatively, I don't know, good or whatever you would I don't think I'm good.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.240
Whatever you engage is like competent, maybe, if that makes sense.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.920
Yeah, you know, it's for me, it's really more of the systems and the skills.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.039
Um, especially because of cross-country ski racing.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.920
My interestingly, my strength in that sport was double pulling and classic skiing.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:26.720
So my upper body strength was just really what would set me apart in races, um, which is funny because in running, like, doesn't matter.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.039
Well, it's also an issue if you're like jacked.
00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:29.759
So yeah.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:40.960
So um, but yeah, I for me, like I haven't had really any like strength-based issues when it comes to climbing.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.400
It's all just like technique and then the systems.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:59.440
And especially for big walling, like I can do a terrible, like, you know, go up the Jumar's and be like, I have terrible technique, but it doesn't really matter because I can, you know, have the endurance and the strength to just like get myself up the wall.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:05.519
What really slows me down is the systems component, which I'm still trying to perfect and learn.
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:10.720
But there's just obviously so many things that matter a lot that you cannot mess up.
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.519
So I'm not gonna just like, you know, try to blow through those and just be like, oh, I think it's fine.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.559
Like, I'll just keep going.
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:18.240
Like it, it takes me a while.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.839
I like double check everything.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:35.279
And um, you know, people who are really competent, like they can just do something one time with 100% confidence that the system is, you know, good and you know, they're they're off, you know, climbing again.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.480
So for me, that's really the main thing.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:49.200
And then when it comes to like not like, you know, the big wall systems thing, when it comes to just like rock climbing, standard rock climbing, I just haven't had as much experience on different kinds of rock.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:58.640
Like I love granite and like I can climb, you know, pretty hard granite, but I really like I've been trying to go to the gorge here outside out of push up a little bit.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.200
And it's so funny how much I struggle on that.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:09.759
Like, I'll like try to do like a 10 C in the gorge and be like, this will actually take me a bit to like lead because this climbing is just so different.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:19.599
But someone who's really competent in it, they can just like you know, go climb pretty much anywhere at like similar grades, and it's not that like transition.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:27.599
So those are sort of the places where I have experienced the most like the most sticking points.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.920
So this is just out of pure curiosity, because I'm I'm an idiot.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:32.559
I have no idea.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.480
I think of like Honold doing his thing on like uh on L Cap.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.599
How long does it take someone to like someone like of your level?
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.119
How long does it take you to do like L Cap?
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.000
Does this like a like a in a day you do this thing?
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.079
It really depends on the route.
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:46.240
Okay.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:47.519
Um it really depends on the route.
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:47.920
It really depends.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:51.039
The nose.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.079
The nose is really, yeah, yeah, and free ride is like a variation.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.519
Um, so yeah, it it really depends.
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:04.240
Like, I actually, if the weather holds up, I'm hoping to go up L Cap again in a couple weeks, but we'll see.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:10.640
Um, and I'm planning on like three days to do the nose, which you know, for some people it's like a week.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.960
For like the really competent people, they do the niad, which is nose in a day.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.160
Um, which is, you know, used to be a huge deal.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.240
Now it's like, I feel like I know so many people who are like, yeah, I can just go do the niad.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:23.839
I'm like, well, I'm definitely not there.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:34.079
So that's yeah, for me, I'm thinking like it'd be like it's for me, a three hard days is you know, fairly, fairly, yeah.
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:35.279
Three hard days.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:36.319
That's wild.
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:45.200
Now, I I from like a cross-training perspective, because obviously you're you're I don't want to say runner first, but like that's kind of your more or less your main discipline.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.640
Uh does is this like, do you look at this as like, okay, this is a really fun hobby?
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:57.279
Do you obviously we'll talk about uh Normans in a bit, like and how you kind of combine these, but like is this more cross-training for you?
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:58.799
How do you how do you view it?
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:08.400
You know, there's a lot more to be done in this space, I think, around the world, especially, especially combining like different um types of climbing.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:18.319
I think when it comes to running, like you can, it's such an amazing sport because you can like do it in any conditions, pretty much anywhere.
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.319
Like it's so cool in that way.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:34.240
And so, because of that, I think there's like a lot that can be done that combines different aspects of climbing and running, kind of like you know, the Norman's idea that was not my idea, it's just a route that I did.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.799
That was the brainchild of actually a bishop local, Andy Golich.
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:40.960
Um, super sick route.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:55.039
But yeah, there's more things like that, or even that, you know, include more of that like mixed and iced terrain around the world that I think would be really cool to explore more of, but um, and I've been thinking about.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:00.720
Um, but also in addition to that, just I've had some major operations.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:05.839
I've had uh really serious abdominal, major abdominal surgery.
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:17.279
And so for me, like I've just noticed that when I have high running volume, my body just doesn't really absorb it in the same way.
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.640
Like I already am very well conditioned from my entire life spent like high-level training.
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:28.799
The last thing I really need to do is like push it over the top from an inflammation standpoint.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.359
And I have just like, you know, a lot of abdominal issues.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:40.880
And so that like higher impact of running and increasing my volume just really starts to push that over the edge.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:57.920
And it's actually really interesting because I've tried to train to the point where and find cool like training routes for climbing that actually I can climb fast and hard enough and long enough that I get an aerobic effort in when I'm climbing, but also it's like no impact.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.359
And I really struggle on the bike.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:07.279
I used to bike a lot and I love biking, but I, with all of my abdominal issues and my pelvic issues, it's something I've really, really struggled with.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.359
So I kind of had to like nix that for my cross-training routine.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:17.839
And so for me, climbing has just been the like mental sweet spot and emotional sweet spot because I love it so much.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:25.359
But also I've found a really cool way to incorporate it into my training that works really well for me, especially from a stability standpoint.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:31.200
Like some of the medications I've been on have definitely not been great for ligament laxity.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:39.759
Like I've noticed my doctors and I have like worked on this, I've had a lot more issues with just like ligament uh laxity.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:46.319
And so, because of that, like climbing and working on my stability has been massive.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.759
And yeah, again, like climbing is a great way to do that.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:32:01.279
And so, yeah, I've kind of used it as a way to train, but also like I have a lot of ideas in mind of how to combine things, um, which is exciting.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:02.160
I like that.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:02.640
I like that.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:03.440
Okay, all right.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:13.440
Uh well, I think it is so interesting, not just the combination, but like the I don't know, uh you see a lot of athletes that are very good at climbing, or at least like very technically um savvy.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:23.599
Like the first athlete that comes to mind is like Jane Moss, who is so nasty when it comes to scrambling and climbing and stuff like that, but also is an amazing runner and kind of combines these things.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:29.279
And whereas like a lot of athletes, you know, traditional athletes in our space generally come from like a track and field background.
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:31.039
So when they see rock, they they panic.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:32.559
They're like, oh god, what do I do?
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:44.559
Um so you're it makes you kind of dangerous when it comes to racing uh and for just different kinds of objectives because it's I don't know, it makes you a different kind of athlete in a lot of ways, which is exciting.
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:33:07.039
And there's just I think a lot of really cool things still to do in the sort of more technical, like when running meets climbing and we call it scrambling, like there's a lot of nuance there, and it usually is subjective to like, you know, someone might think it's scrambling, but another person will use a rope.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.519
Like, what does scrambling really mean?
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:21.440
It is all relative, and so because of that, I think there's also um a lot of room for growth in in like what that can look like in the future, too, um, in the mountains.
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:40.000
But obvious, obviously, like we also are very fortunate this day and age to have like amazing technologies that actually allow us to like run in like the backcountry without having to carry, you know, a massive water filter and like massive amounts of you know, high volume food.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:47.519
Like we are lucky to be able to explore the way that we do um with our modern technology, that's for sure.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:48.640
So cool.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:50.799
Um, I want to shift gears a little bit.
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:52.079
I want to talk about Normans.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:53.839
So Norman's 13.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:34:02.880
Uh in where I come from, we have the Nolan's 14, which is a much lesser, like it's it's hard, but it's like not as hard as what like you're doing, because it seems like there's a lot more climbing with what you're doing.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.039
Ours is like big rock piles.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.279
Uh I know I gotta check it out at some point.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:08.880
I've never actually checked it out.
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:10.880
I've everyone's always like, you gotta do it.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:11.840
It's you know what?
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:22.559
But I was you know what came to mind when you were talking about climbing was like you gotta check out um if you've never been Sagar to Cristo range, highly slept on, um, but it's all this like really sick conglomerate.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:28.800
Um so like there's like these really cool, like almost like basketball-sized holds, like the scrambling is amazing.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:30.559
Yeah, and then we have like the Cresto needle.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.199
I have heard of it, but I have not looked into it, but I will.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:33.920
I will look into it.
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:34.639
Put it on the list.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:42.559
It's definitely it's slept on, so it's like not as but if you ever find yourself for a TNF thing and happen to be a few hours away from Sangra de Cristo, there you go.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:43.920
Um make my way over there.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:44.480
There you go.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.400
All right, let's let's talk uh Norman's.
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.000
Like what is this route?
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:51.360
Uh obviously you did it three days, 17 hours, 55 minutes.
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.719
Uh help help add some commentary and and color to this.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:02.800
Yeah, so Norman's 13 is an open-ended FKT, so bait open route.
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:17.920
So basically, as long as you are starting um and doing all of the 13 14ers, you can go either direction and you can connect to to them in any way you think is gonna be fastest, which is super cool and creative.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:26.639
And I think, yeah, I think it's just like a really cool way of exploring, but also like trying to, you know, get go for a fast time.
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.119
Um, very different than racing, obviously.
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:39.760
Um, but yeah, so basically the point of the route is to connect the 13 highest peaks in the Sierra Range, which are all 14ers.
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:47.679
And in California, there are 15 14ers, but Norman's 13 only focuses on the 13 that are in the Sierra.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:53.360
So the other two that are in the state, but not in the range, are White Mountain, which is just across the Owens Valley.
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:59.920
So where Bishop sits, um, just across that little desert in the White Mountain range that kind of faces and mirrors the Sierra.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:10.800
There's actually a 14er over there called White Mountain, and then all the way up north in the southern Cascade um volcanic belt is Shasta, which is also a 14er in California.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:12.079
But those two don't count.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.760
Um, this is just connecting the 13 in the Sierra.
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:22.480
And yeah, you can go south to north, so or north to south, which is what I did, and I'm still the only one who do it north to south.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.079
And I'm like so curious.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.960
I want someone else to do it my direction just to see.
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:32.719
Um, I'm I I really still don't know if it was slower, but and I'll get to why.
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:39.840
But um you start, at least for my direction of travel, um, with Thunderbolt.
00:36:40.000 --> 00:37:07.119
So it's the Palisade Traverse, which is Thunderbolt, Starlight, um, North Palisade, Polimonium Peak, Mount Sill, Middle Palisade, and then run over on the JMT to Split Mountain, and then and have to go off trail to get to it, and then back down to the JMT again, and then it's a big 50-mile section on the JMT going through Ray Lakes, which is so sick, um, uh over to the Williamson area.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:24.079
So then you do Mount Tyndall and Mount Williamson, and then it's just like all this cross-country travel over to the Whitney zone, or you then do Russell, Mount Whitney, and um Mount Mir, and then um more cross-country travel to Mount Langley and then trail back out.
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:26.480
So that's sort of how I did it.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:44.320
Um everyone else has done it the opposite of what I just listed, and um it combines it's about a hundred-ish miles, obviously, depending on how what route and which way you take, and about it's under 50, 40,000 feet of vertical gain.
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:50.960
Um, it goes up to 5'9 uh rock climbing grade, but it's only for like a brief moment.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.639
And it's more of like a boulder problem.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:56.800
The five nine grade is so weird and arbitrary.
00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:00.159
It's uh on Thunderbolt, which is the first peak for me.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:13.760
There's like this weird slab uh block that in order to get to the top, you're essentially doing this like really reachy, weird, like arret slabby arrette move to like get to the summit and you're at 14,000 feet.
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:18.880
And if you like fall and you're not secure, like you're falling 2,000 feet.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.199
So it's very interesting.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:39.119
And um yeah, the whole like technical section is really that Palisade Traverse, which is all fifth class, um, but a lot of like five, six, um, like a lot of like crack climbing five, six, like classic granite Sierra stuff.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:47.679
And then the rest of it is a lot of just like class four, class three, a lot of class two, just like talus for days kind of stuff.
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:53.519
Um, and then of course the trail running as well, with especially the 50 miles on the JMT.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:55.119
So you really have it all.
00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:12.960
And I like to say you can't really be just a runner and do it, and you also can't really be a climber because just be a climber because you have to be okay with um, you know, running that far and also climbing um on that kind of terrain for a sustained amount of time.
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:16.400
Cause that whole first day is essentially like fifth class terrain.
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:18.639
Well, my first day.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:25.440
So why why did you choose the section or the the route, this the I guess the the way you went specifically?
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:34.239
So the thing I was concerned about with the way I went is it's more vertical gain on the JMT section going my way.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:41.599
But there's going that direction on the Palisade Traverse, I can do it like a couple hours faster.
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.800
Well, not a couple hours.
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.079
It's like I've gotten it dialed more than that by now.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:50.559
But especially going at the pace I was going, I think it's probably safe to say that at this point.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.119
Um, I just I like that direction of travel on the Palisade Traverse more.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:08.320
There's like this one weird chimney that I brought, just like a 15 meter, five, five millimeter tag line, just like a static line that can just wrap the chimney and climbing up it sucks because it's this like chaucy chimney and there's no pro.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.480
And I'm just like, I don't really want to do that.
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.159
And it would be on my last day.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.800
And I was just like, I would be fine, but like, why not enjoy the experience?
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.559
Like, I'm gonna enjoy this journey so much more if I do it like the way I like to do it.
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.800
And that's also such a sick part of the route.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:34.480
Like, by the time I get there at the very end of the whole experience, like I'm doing my favorite section when I'm like out of my mind.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:35.599
Like, I don't know.
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:42.320
Like to me, it just seemed like so sick to just like do that and be like, oh my gosh, I'm out here and I'm doing this.
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:49.199
And also, it's just kind of like this personal thing, the Cottonwood Lakes area, which is where Langley is.
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:54.800
I've just always found it to be like this really peaceful energy.
00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.800
Like it's just this really cool zone that I've always just been really, really attracted to.
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:19.119
And so honestly, like a part of me was like, I kind of feel like it's gonna be this like magnet pulling me the whole time of just like I can just like enjoy being in a setting that's like not technical, not crazy, not high energy, but just like really peaceful.
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:20.960
And for me, that really resonated.
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:27.199
And like I was like, I'm gonna be starting out, I'm gonna be like raging, like, let's go, which is like how I feel about the energy on the Palisage reverse.
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:29.119
I'm like, okay, let's go, like, let's go do this.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:35.039
And so I just feel like it matched sort of how I envisioned my own energy going um throughout the process.
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:37.360
And it definitely was exactly that.
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:46.719
Like, I maybe, you know, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but um I I kind of, yeah, it was definitely less of like a performance thing.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:42:03.119
I was curious, like if maybe it would be a little bit faster just because I feel like some of the technical terrain, like just getting that out of the way when you're fresh, could like really get sloggy when you're tired.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:04.400
But I I don't know.
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:10.559
At the end of the day, to be able to like really rage on the like JMT section, you probably would make up the most time.
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:14.320
And for it to be more net downhill the other direction, like maybe that is faster.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:14.880
Like, I don't know.
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.159
Maybe I have to do it again.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:17.039
The other way.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:18.159
All right.
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:29.119
How dialing this thing in, how long did it take you to start to, I guess, like, I don't know, just kind of put it all together in your head.
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:29.920
Yeah.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:31.760
So I had this idea.
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.599
Um, gosh, a couple years ago, like probably five years ago at this point.
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:43.039
And I was like, oh my gosh, I really want to do something in the Sierra that combines climbing and running.
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.039
And then I was like, I'll have to come up with something.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.320
I don't know if any of that exists.
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.639
Like Evo, the Evo Traverse is like definitely more of like a climbing thing.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:57.199
And like, I don't know, like it's just, it's not quite enough running for me to feel like this is like a hybrid of climbing and running.
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.239
And I was like, but there's gotta be something else.
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.559
And then I realized that it did exist, and it's a way better idea than I probably would have had.
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:06.239
Norman's 13.
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:11.920
And so um I was like, immediately like I have to do this.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:17.920
And then I actually had planned to do it in gosh, was that 2023 or 2022?
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.039
No, that was 2022.
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:20.480
I don't even know anymore.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:27.760
Um, and then like shortly after, I started like having some serious health stuff.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:32.880
And so I was like, immediately, no, I cannot like do really anything.
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:34.800
Um, and so I had to focus on that.
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:49.280
But then in the midst of focusing on all the health stuff, I just like became obsessed with this project idea of just like, as soon as my body is durable enough to just go do it, I'm gonna go do it.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:56.000
And even if I like know I'm not like at peak performance condition or whatever, like doesn't matter to me.
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:59.679
It's about the journey at this point, and I know I can go do this thing, it's just a matter.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:06.960
Of like allowing my body to be healed enough and ready to just like actually soak in the experience and enjoy it.
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:13.599
And um yeah, so I like truly meditated on this thing for like a couple of years.
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:20.719
And then as soon as I started, you know, being able to like run a little bit again, I was like, I need to get over to the Sierra.
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:25.360
And so I like came over and I met up with Rod and I was like, let's go like for a run.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:37.920
And I like ran like five miles in Mammoth at like 8,000 feet and was like, oh my God, I used to come over here and do like 80 miles, and like I'm over here for the first time since like all this health stuff, and I'm like gassed after five.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.039
Like, okay, this is crazy.
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:54.400
And yeah, I I guess like instead of that deterring me, and I I felt like so motivated because I was just like, I'm over here, but like I can't actually like do anything I want to do.
00:44:54.639 --> 00:45:03.920
So I ended up just like making like a lot of a mental map of like all the places, especially along this route that I hadn't been before that I wanted to go explore.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:12.079
And so it kind of became this like really cool way for me to just like explore new zones in the place that I love so much, but also get fit again.
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.239
And it just like, yeah, it just kind of became that like loop.
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:20.639
And then I got fit enough and was like, I'm gonna try it.
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.320
Dude, that's crazy.
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.760
How did you figure out the uh the logistic aspect of it?
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:31.039
Like once you started putting things together as far because it's a long way, like resupply and all that stuff.
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.960
How did you start to put all that together?
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.519
Gosh, I really love logistics.
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.559
Um I actually used to work at Uber, so there you go.
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:39.760
Nice logistics.
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:40.559
Love it.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.519
Um, yeah, I was really psyched on that.
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:46.000
And I had originally planned to do it unsupported.
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:49.039
And then um, we actually have a film coming out about it.
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:56.800
So with all of the content and like film stuff that was coming up, um, with talks with the North Face, I was like, what the heck?
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:09.440
Like, why would I like try to go back out, get some like like a little bit of content here and there after I do this thing when we can just like see what happens with just doing it during it.
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:17.119
And so I was like, okay, well, if we're gonna do like a little film, then and there's gonna be people out there, then it's gonna have to be supported.
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:21.360
I might as well invite like my family and best friends and see if anyone wants to come help.
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:25.280
And so a bunch of people ended up being like, I'll do like tell me what you need.
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:32.239
And so um, I ended up having like friends come out and like help me with a resupply or like pace me for sections.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:40.559
And it was just so ended up being exactly like honestly, way better than I had thought because I really love being out there on my own or maybe with one other person.
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.199
It's just like I just, it's my happy place, and it just like really fills me up in that way.
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:47.440
But this was so special.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:56.400
I could like I there were a couple of points where it was like miles away, and the only headlamps I could see were the people I knew were my friends that were coming out to like help me.
00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:58.719
And I'm just like, what is this?
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.239
Like, this is such a cool experience in like every level.
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:05.039
So I'm really glad I actually ended up doing it that way.
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:10.480
Um, but it was actually planning the logistics is one thing.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:13.679
My friends who committed to that is another.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.119
You should talk to them.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:20.320
Cause it's a hard, like the hardest thing to get out to.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.639
I mean, it's like a day basically just to like get out there.
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:27.360
Um, because I actually went out when Killian came out and did it.
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:28.400
I was gonna ask you about Killing.
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:33.679
And, you know, that that's like one of the easier sections to get to.
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.519
And Taboos is like a notorious, like one of the harder passes.
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.880
And, you know, that's you know, over 10 miles just one way.
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:46.400
So you're like, oh yeah, just like a quick 10 miles in, but then like, you know, they gotta get back out.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.480
But like if they're going with me for a section, that ends up being this like whole thing.
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:57.440
And I had to experience that myself when I went to help him because I went into Taboose to do a section with him.
00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:17.199
And then I ended up doing 50 miles because in order to get out, I ended up having to go around the ridge because there was like all this like ver gloss, and it was like honestly, like blizzard-like conditions, and I didn't want to be on the ridge with him and his other pacer because there with three people with the viz solo and like the hazards.
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.000
I was like, we're just literally increasing the hazards by like a third.
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:26.800
Um, just because it was mostly at that point objective hazard, just like knocking shit on each other.
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.760
So I ended up having to go like all the way around to get out, and that was the fastest way.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:32.239
And I was like, this is what I put them up to.
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:33.599
Oh no.
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:37.440
Um, but yeah, that alone was like the biggest thing.
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:48.719
The planning of it was fine because it was just like I know the zone so well, I could have a pretty good sense of like where it would make sense to have um resupplies.
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.199
And I also like had planned on doing it unsupported anyway.
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:54.960
So I was like, I'll just carry as much as I know I need, like plus some.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:01.280
And if, you know, for whatever reason, um I have more by the time I meet my next person, like that's fine.
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.239
I'd rather that.
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:04.559
So um, yeah, I don't know.
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:05.119
Wow.
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:05.760
It was fine.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:06.639
It was fine.
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:13.360
For for a three-day for almost a four-day effort, how were you able to get into like a flow state at all?
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:20.079
Or like, especially with all these people joining you, like what was that like as far as like being able to just dial yourself in or just being in the zone?
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:35.280
There's only a lot of people at like, you know, every 24 hours, okay, you know, so you're like out there and then you're like, oh, there's a couple people, but then you only see them for like two hours, and then you're like in the like you know, abyss again.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.199
So um, so there's that.
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:42.480
But um, yeah, I don't know.
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:49.920
I feel like I yeah, it's I felt like I was really in a flow state like the whole time.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:58.000
I just like love being out in that kind of environment, especially in this particular range.
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:05.599
And it was also just this thing that I like dreamed about just doing for so long at this point, which is funny to me.
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:09.679
Cause I was like, wow, I really was like about to go do it a couple years ago.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:13.840
And like I feel like a very different person, you know?
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:23.360
And so that was pretty cool to just be like, wow, like I'm doing this in a different way than I imagined, but like it's definitely better than like I could have imagined.
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:25.840
But yeah, I just felt very connected.
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:29.760
And I really felt like the more I got into it, the more connected I got.
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.280
And by like the last day, I actually felt really sad.
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:42.000
Like I was like, I am suffering and like I feel like shit, but at the same time, I really don't want this to end.
00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.360
Which I don't really feel at the end of Reese's.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:46.000
I'm like, thank god.
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:47.039
It just wants to be over.
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:47.840
Right, right, right.
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.639
Oh, so that was cool.
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.039
What did how did you deal with the sleep deprivation?
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:55.519
Like, did you like what did that enhance the flow state?
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:56.559
That was interesting.
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.360
Yeah.
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:08.719
I yeah, because I've never done anything like that, where it's like you kind of just have to keep going, like a multi, like if you're on LCAP for three days, like you're sleeping.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:13.679
Cause like you need your brain, at least me, like I need my brain to be like totally good to go.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.679
So I'm not like messing up a system.
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:22.079
But for this, it's like, you know, I can just keep moving over the terrain and like 30-minute mile is faster than a zero-minute mile.
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:23.519
So just keep going.
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:35.280
And there were definitely times where I like uh Rod was with me when I was like falling asleep walking, and he's got like some good experience like dealing with this stuff.
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:37.440
So he was just like lie down and sleep.
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:47.360
And I realized I think next time in like a scenario like this, I would actually sleep like sooner.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:51.519
But instead, I was like, I'm just gonna keep pushing it until I like have to sleep.
00:51:51.760 --> 00:52:08.079
And I realized for me that just created so much of a deficit that like if I had just kind of like kept up a little bit here and there and not just like way pushed myself over the sleep deficit edge, I think I would have been a bit better off because then I it was like kind of hard to come back from that.
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.679
But I also knew I was gonna be part of the experience, and uh I also was like choosing to suffer in that way.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:14.800
So I thought it was kind of funny.
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:24.880
I was like, this is a choice, like I am choosing this, and that's way better than all this like medical stuff I've been dealing with, which is actively not a choice, and that stuff really sucks.
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:35.679
Like, I am choosing to be in this kind of weird sufferer pain state, and like I feel more empowered by that than um like the couple of years that I've had.
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:39.440
So I think that also like played into it a lot for me.
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:41.840
Did you did you hallucinate at all?
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.000
Weirdly, no.
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:44.880
Yeah, man.
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:46.559
I've heard some good ones.
00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:48.800
I've heard some people like see some crazy shit out there.
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:53.119
Um I know I was like, where okay, like come on.
00:52:54.159 --> 00:53:07.920
Weird, but yeah, I've had like other like more fast packing things in in you know other places and end in this year where I've been like you know, hosting like Rox's tents or like Teresa's people, and like you really believe it, and like little like elvish creatures.
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:11.440
Yeah, we love the elves.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:12.400
I didn't have any of that.
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:14.159
I was like, come on, guys, where are you?
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:20.320
Dude, I saw a meme recently on Instagram, and like it was like talking about the hallucinations, and it was like these little like garden gnomes like running around.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:21.760
I was like, damn, I almost went up.
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:26.480
So yeah, I don't know.
00:53:26.559 --> 00:53:26.960
I don't know.
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:29.360
It's uh what a what a wild experience.
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:32.400
Uh no, no elves for me.
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:34.400
I want to shift gears a little bit.
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:38.079
So you finish this crazy objective, it's all said and done.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:40.480
Were you surprised by like the the reaction?
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:46.000
Like there was an outside magazine article written about this, like it was picked up by by media pretty solidly.
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:50.639
Like, were you expecting like that level of uh notoriety kind of afterwards?
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:55.039
Yeah, I didn't really think too much about it.
00:53:55.119 --> 00:54:02.000
I was like, you know, this is like a pretty big thing, but yeah, I guess I was just kind of curious.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:05.360
Like, I wonder if people even really get it.
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:16.400
Um, so that was pretty cool that, you know, it seems like because there's actually a winter um ascent of it.
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:20.079
It's hard to say ascent, because I'm like, it's an ascent, I guess.
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:27.519
But yeah, um, like Cody Townsend and Tommy Caldwell and Bjorn, I totally forget his last name.
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:32.960
Um, they actually went and did it and they were like super stoked after I did it and Killian did it.
00:54:33.039 --> 00:54:34.960
And I was like, wow, that's like a really cool.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:41.920
I don't know, like I haven't really done things in the past that like other people have been like, oh, I want to go try that now necessarily.
00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:48.800
So, which I kind of figured, even if it's not because of me, it's just because I was happened to be the person to do that.
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:58.880
But it was cool to like, you know, have an impact in that way, be like, oh, like I did something that other people want to also go try to do that hasn't been done much.
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:07.440
That feels special, but it's also like cool because there's gonna be so many more people that go do it and faster and in crazier ways.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.639
And it's gonna be so fun to see the progression of this route over time.
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.440
Cause it's just like I, oh my gosh, I just know how fast it can probably go.
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:17.840
And that's really exciting.
00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:19.280
So cool.
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:29.280
I'm excited to see that, and it's cool to be a part of that story and just like know, you know, when that happens, I hate to like be like, oh wow, that's really freaking sick.
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:39.519
Did did it feel like, I mean, especially given the health issues that you've been working through, did it feel like this just like overwhelming moment that you just overcame this giant thing?
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:43.440
Like that you're, you know, you're kind of on almost like working through to get to the other side of.
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:49.599
You know, I feel like there's just been a lot of moments like that over the course of this journey.
00:55:49.920 --> 00:56:04.880
I think this was definitely a big one where I was like, okay, like this is one of the things that I like have really meditated on and just like not for the outcome.
00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:12.639
Like I never really thought about like finishing it and like, you know, what that would be like or anything.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:37.760
I just really I was so immersed in like what the journey would be to just like go do something like that again, and especially like this route and like what that means for me as like a person and an athlete and recovering from all this health stuff, and like it's still very much a part of my journey, and like there's going to be more surgeries to come and more, you know, of that stuff.
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:49.039
And so to have the time and ability to just like go do it and try it was like all I really cared about.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.199
But yeah, I don't know.
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:53.760
It's like I don't know.
00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:55.360
Yeah, I don't know.
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.719
I like that.
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:59.360
What was it like uh getting to spend time with Killian?
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:00.239
How was that?
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.000
Oh, it was really cool.
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:04.639
I was like, man, I am joining him.
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:06.480
It was like right as night was falling.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:09.519
I was like, oh my gosh, literally doing this at night.
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:13.840
Oh no, like pretty tired still, but here we go.
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.559
Um, I am nocturnal now.
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:26.159
Um, and yeah, I was just like really, really curious to see what state he would be in and just what it would be like.
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:33.679
And um, because like I don't really know him personally, and so I was like, this feels really interesting.
00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:46.800
And like I cannot wait to just like be a part of his bigger journey, but also the fact that he's like out here doing this thing that like I care about so much.
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:52.960
And like maybe if he gets like a piece of that, like I'll that's cool too.
00:57:53.199 --> 00:58:02.719
Um and man, I just was like so impressed with he was just so like lucid and conscious and was like asking me all these questions.
00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:04.800
And I was just like, you should save your energy, man.
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:05.599
Like it's okay.
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:11.920
And I kind of went into it being like, I don't, you know, I like to chat, but I also am like, we don't need to talk at all.
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.159
Like, I don't really know what his energy is gonna be.
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:18.000
And so I tried to just like keep it like really chill and quiet.
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:24.159
And like if he was clearly like trying to ask questions or talk, then like I would ask him questions and talk.
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:27.760
And um, we actually talked a lot, and that was pretty cool.
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:32.239
I really did not expect that, and I was like, that's insane.
00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:33.679
You're insane.
00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:53.440
Um yeah, I just like was so impressed by his composure and his just ability to like move through that kind of terrain, and we had horrible weather, like it was not as cold and windy as when I did it, but it was snowing hard.
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:59.199
So that yeah, I mean, it just slows you down a ton.
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:12.320
And so it was just like a crazy, which was fun because I was like, I was just out here, and to be like now in it in a completely um different environment with like you know, snow falling is pretty cool.
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:21.039
And yeah, I and to like, you know, share in that kind of just like, well, this is kind of wild experience with him was pretty sweet.
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.840
Um and I just really appreciated.
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:30.079
I could tell he like could see why that area meant so much to me.
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:38.880
And I'm like, wow, the fact that he can also like be in these places and he's here because he wants to learn how to appreciate them too, like a local would is like really sick.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:40.960
And I could feel that that was like a part of his mission.
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:45.760
It's like he just really wanted to explore these zones and like learn about them.
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:54.079
And that like resonated with me with like the questions he was asking and the way he was like, you know, talking about his experience himself.
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:57.360
And I yeah, it just left me like very impressed.
00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:03.440
We were very lucky to have, you know, him and Courtney as like you know, legends of our sport.
01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:07.119
Like, truly, it's pretty cool that they're such amazing people.
01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:08.079
That is really cool.
01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:16.320
I mean, you know, when it's all said and done, yeah, Killian will will obviously goes down in history and the sport, already is, but like it's cool to have shared a moment with him like that, you know what I'm saying?
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:18.559
Like something you'll have forever.
01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:19.599
Yeah, that's that's pretty cool.
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:20.400
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:21.679
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:25.119
I really, I really appreciate it.
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:33.039
And to be totally honest, any human being who was about to go to New Norman's, I would have been there.
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:48.239
It just so happened to be Killian, which was so sick, but like truly, if it was any person, like a total stranger to like the community and me, like I would have been so stoked to like be a part of their journey on it.
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:51.840
Um, but it was it was really cool that it was Killian.
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:52.880
So rad.
01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:53.679
So rad.
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:55.440
I have so many questions for you.
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:58.239
We're all we're already at an hour, so I want to I want to be mindful of your time.
01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:00.000
Um, I want to ask you about TNF.
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:03.440
How do you like what's the how much do you love like being on that team?
01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:07.599
The reason I ask you is because one of the first things you were talking about was Peter Croft doing Astro Man.
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:08.320
You were talking about that.
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:11.119
You're like, holy shit, that's a that's a that's a legend right there.
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:15.119
And now you're I I don't know if he is or was on the TNF team at one point in time.
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:17.440
Oh no shit.
01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:18.239
I didn't know that.
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:22.880
I mean I know he's a legend, but I'm telling you what I'm saying he's probably like no one's looking.
01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:24.559
But what is that like?
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:29.280
Uh these meet your heroes moments, and then to be a part of a team like that, you know, like Hanel.
01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:39.360
There's so many people like on, you know, that that we see in pop culture or you know, that do these incredible feats, and then you're just you're an athlete just like them doing also incredible things.
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:50.719
Yeah, I mean, I feel like that kind of goes full circle back to a little bit what I was saying with um just the act of just getting into climbing as a sport is really difficult.
01:01:51.039 --> 01:02:03.360
And I do feel like for me, I was really able to like take some massive next steps in just like learning some of the skills and systems once I joined the team.
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:21.920
Because then all of a sudden I had this direct plug into literally some of the best athletes in the world in ice climbing and mixed climbing and big wall climbing and bouldering, like you name it, like there's one of the best climbers in the world on the north face for that sport.
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:28.960
And so I yeah, I just kind of once I joined, I was like, great, like I really want to learn.
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:39.599
And so um I just had amazing conversations and became friends with a lot of really amazing athletes on the team in some disciplines and started learning.
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:46.960
And they're so like gracious and amazing teachers, and like literally got to learn from the best.
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:48.960
Lucky me.
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:58.880
So I really just tried to like I tried to leverage that because I was like, dang, like what a source of knowledge that I can like try to learn.
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:08.639
And it's kind of back to what I was saying too, like for me, it's not really a strength thing or a fitness thing, it's definitely a technique and skill-based thing.
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:14.480
And like that's exactly like the you know, network I need to like learn that.
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:17.119
And so um, yeah, I didn't take that lightly.
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:28.800
I was like, man, if I can like ask them, you know, there's a better system for you know different things and I can practice that and like really try and hone it and like learn it, then sick.
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:35.280
I have a I have like a this is a weird, almost like a weird question, but the reason I ask this is because I don't know.
01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:39.440
I just I'm obsessed and interested with people that are really good at things that they do.
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:45.360
So like, and I always find running to be such like an outlier because like there's your Michelino Sincerius of the world.
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:46.079
He's a good friend of mine.
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:47.119
I love Michelino.
01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:56.320
But like his approach is so different than like, I don't know, Killian or like, I don't know, uh like John Aziz, who's like a robot.
01:03:56.400 --> 01:04:02.079
Yeah, he's uh he's won Pike's peak multiple times, but he's so dialed and like robotic with what he does.
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:08.800
With climbers, is there something that like stands out about these people that like makes them really good at what they are?
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:17.599
Is there like a certain trait that you pick up and see that's like wow, like you're really dialed at this, this, this, and this, and that's one of the reasons, like, or you're just obsessed with this.
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:22.000
Is there a specific trait that you've seen that like makes these people really good at what they are and what they do?
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:25.039
They're just willing to go all in.
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:26.880
Interesting.
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:27.599
100%.
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:28.880
Yeah, yeah.
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:50.320
And I think that also kind of comes from their culture of dirt bagging, you know, like they fully subscribe to their craft and they live it, breathe it, like they, you know, in a lot of ways sacrifice many other aspects of their lives to be able to do it.
01:04:50.480 --> 01:05:15.760
And then they are so incredibly like the I feel like climbers are just their operations mindset and like their ability to strategize and just like think quickly is like one of the most translatable skills across anything because you know, these people they can like be like a dirtbag, only focus on one thing, and then have an amazing career until it's something totally different.
01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:18.719
You know, they're like done with climbing now, like now.
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:21.119
I'm gonna be amazing at like this corporate career or something.
01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:22.000
And you're like, what?
01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:23.840
Like, that's just not normal.
01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:29.840
But yeah, I mean, it really is this like I am all in on this sport.
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:40.719
And that what's interesting about that sport is because the technique and the skill and the systems is so such a huge part of it.
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:46.079
Like, you can spend your whole life focusing on it and that will help you.
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:55.360
Whereas running, like you can only run so much before it becomes, you know, interesting for your body.
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:59.760
And that's all personal, you know, like different that work different things.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:01.599
Work for different people in that regard.
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:06.159
But there is much obviously technique and skill in running as well.
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:13.280
But we're not talking about like knots and rope systems and different pieces of gear and when to use them and how to use them.
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:21.360
And like it's just totally different level of like just like you know, mastering the craft in that regard.
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:27.360
And so yeah, I mean, they're they're all it's just they're 100% in.
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:29.920
They just 100% commit.
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:33.599
And also you have to be a hundred percent committed when you climb.
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:35.440
So there's that too.
01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:36.159
That's true.
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:38.159
Yeah, you gotta be all in and like very focused.
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:39.199
It's so interesting to me.
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:39.599
I don't know.
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:44.079
It's always uh when you meet like people that are very uh I don't know at the top of the game at what they do.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:45.679
Like, I don't know, we have like Matt Carpenter.
01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:47.760
I don't know if you ever heard him, he's like the pike speed record.
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.400
Guy's a lunatic, complete and total alien.
01:06:50.480 --> 01:07:01.519
Like, I don't know where he comes from, but like his obsession level and how dialed he is about certain things, I'm just like, whoa, like that's what it takes to truly be the greatest at something or or try to be like one of the greatest at something.
01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:13.440
So I always find that interesting on like how that, you know, uh kind of crosses over into the climbing world and what how they just go all into, you know, and if you do something long enough, I guess eventually you just be get really, really, really good at it, you know.
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:13.840
Yeah.
01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:26.719
And honestly, living in a place like Bishop now, I'm like the amount of talent, people that like don't know, you know, these incredibly talented people exist in this sport is insane.
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:40.159
Like there are so many people who live here who are so low key and they have spent their whole lives just like focusing on climbing in Bishop because they love it and they're just all in and they're insane.
01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:45.440
Like it's crazy, but like no one knows anything about them, you know?
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:55.119
Like they're not professionals, they don't get paid to do it, you know, they don't have Instagram, they just like live and breathe, you know, the the climbing here.
01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:58.239
And it's just it's really, it's really interesting.
01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.519
What is your take on that?
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:10.000
I find the say I like I see this similarly, like in a lot of mountain towns, like you'll come across these like world-class runners or world-class skiers that'll just like beat your ass that like you've never even heard of.
01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:13.599
No one's ever heard of them, but they're like, you know, like world class.
01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:20.399
It's I find that really interesting because they don't chase uh they don't chase a sponsorship or they don't chase this or they don't chase that.
01:08:20.560 --> 01:08:22.479
Um I always found that interesting.
01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:26.159
Like it's like uh, you know, it's it's I don't know, just different world, you know.
01:08:26.479 --> 01:08:27.199
It really is.
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:32.239
I mean, I've I think we all can learn from everyone, you know.
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:44.800
And I think one thing I really I I really commend them for is just they're really 100% living their life for themselves.
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:57.600
And there's obviously some great things with that, obviously some not, but I think learning how to be like actually really true to yourself can often like make you a better person around other people too.
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:13.439
And I do think with some of the people I've met around here that are like truly living like their truth in every way, no noise, no nonsense, and they're so happy and they're so at peace, and they're so lovely.
01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:15.840
And I think that's really cool and beautiful.
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:20.239
And um, there's always different, you know, there's always a spectrum with all this stuff.
01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:29.039
But I think at some of the extremes there is that, and I think that's really beautiful, and yeah, I really I I respect them for that.
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:29.840
Very cool.
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.880
All right, last topic I want to talk to you about geology and GIS.
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.399
So you said your was your minor in GIS as well?
01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:38.560
Yeah, well, it's like concentration.
01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:40.000
So yeah, dude.
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:41.279
I'll tell you a funny story.
01:09:41.359 --> 01:09:42.399
I don't think I've ever told this.
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.439
I've definitely never said this on the podcast, but like this is this is a funny one.
01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:52.720
I um so my first job was I was an environmental consultant, and I was in this, you know, I got a certificate.
01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:58.880
Like, I guess it was a concentration in GIS, but the way they would teach the classes for us is like it was very Mickey Mouse, it was a joke.
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:02.640
And so I didn't know shit about GIS, but I got a certificate on it.
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:05.279
First day on the job as an environmental consultant.
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:10.479
The my boss like walks up to me at the time, he's like, you know, he's like, you know, we just did this like whole environmental assessment.
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:12.079
He's like, you know, GIS, right?
01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:13.920
Yeah, yeah, sure.
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:19.039
And he like hands me this thing and I had to like do this whole project on like do like drawing all the stuff.
01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:23.760
I had like completely make it up off the whim, off like and like I'm Googling stuff, trying to figure it out.
01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:26.640
And it was the most terrif, one of the most terrifying moments of my life.
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:29.359
I still think about it and get like sweaty palms.
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:33.920
Uh and I had to like have have like a buddy uh who was like have like I've never this is like my first day.
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.399
I'm like trying to make friends with a guy next to me who's like a GIS expert, like trying to beg him to like help me with this.
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:39.760
He's like, Who is this idiot?
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:40.640
Like, what is this guy doing?
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:41.520
What are you doing here?
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:46.079
Yeah, so yeah, it's a it's a funny GIS story, but I was I was like more of a geophysics guy.
01:10:46.159 --> 01:10:47.840
I was like really interested in the math stuff around it.
01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:48.479
Yeah, geo.
01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:49.680
That's cool, yeah.
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:53.760
But the GIS stuff, not my jam, but yeah, that's amazing.
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:54.319
Scarred.
01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:56.399
Yeah, scarred, absolutely terrible.
01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:58.880
Um yeah, you said you went to Colby and studied geology.
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:02.880
So I find that that's that's actually there's a lot of runners that have studied geology.
01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:04.560
Like Jeff Colt has a geology degree, also.
01:11:04.720 --> 01:11:05.520
Like there's quite a few.
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:06.239
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:08.000
I know, it's really interesting.
01:11:08.319 --> 01:11:09.680
Just love to be in the rocks, you know?
01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:10.399
Yeah.
01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:13.439
All right, I think it's a good it's a good spot to end it.
01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:14.880
Uh, thank you so much for coming on the pod.
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:15.760
It was a great conversation.
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:17.119
Oh, one last thing before I let you go.
01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:18.880
What's uh what's the schedule like for the rest of the year?
01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:20.319
What do you what do you got planned?
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:23.279
I am planning on racing TDS this year.
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:25.039
That's kind of like my main race.
01:11:25.279 --> 01:11:27.600
Um I we'll see.
01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:32.000
I kind of want to close it out with maybe like the 100K at UTCT.
01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:37.199
I think they call it the UT100 now, um, which would be really cool, but we'll see.
01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:39.199
It'd be a long year to do that.
01:11:39.359 --> 01:11:44.239
And I don't want to like overcommit my body to things that may not serve it.
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:53.119
Um, but in between, I just kind of want to see, just because once the high Sierra opens up, I want to be able to do like some things here.
01:11:53.439 --> 01:12:01.439
Um, so we'll see like what race I end up doing between now and TDS, but I'll definitely do something probably 100K.
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:13.920
Um, and then yeah, I'm like kind of dreaming up some projects and might I might try to do like a early, like late early spring, I guess.
01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:16.079
Well, it'd be like February next year.
01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:18.399
Um, like push somewhere.
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:19.119
We'll see.
01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:23.920
So yeah, kind of uh open-ended, but TS is the main race.
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:24.720
Nice, nice.
01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:25.600
Great race, by the way.
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:26.079
Like super.
01:12:26.479 --> 01:12:27.039
Yeah, I'm excited.
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:28.399
I've never been DTMV week.
01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:30.239
Oh, neither have I, but I've heard great things.
01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:31.920
So yeah, same.
01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:34.720
Well listen, thanks so much for coming on.
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:35.680
I really appreciate it.
01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:40.720
Can't wait for the next convo and uh wishing you the best of luck uh throughout your summer season.
01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:41.760
Thank you so much.
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:42.640
It was great to meet you.
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:44.000
Yeah, you too.
01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:45.439
What'd you guys think?
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:48.319
Oh man, uh Olivia Amber's a real one.
01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:52.640
Uh definitely, guys, if you don't already, give her a follow, support her on Instagram.
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:58.720
You can find her at OSA Amber, so O S Amber, um, or just type in Olivia Amber.
01:12:58.800 --> 01:12:59.760
It'll be linked in the show notes.
01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:02.560
So definitely give her a follow and show some support.
01:13:02.640 --> 01:13:05.199
Uh I'm sure she'd love to hear from the audience.
01:13:05.439 --> 01:13:12.560
So um, yeah, guys, if you've been enjoying these episodes, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast.
01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:13.920
That would be awesome.
01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:15.920
Also trying to grow that YouTube side.
01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:17.760
So hit that subscribe button as well.
01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:19.439
Um, we're getting there.
01:13:19.760 --> 01:13:22.880
Uh, what did you guys think of the announcement for Cetus this week?
01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:24.239
Uh, pretty stoked on that.
01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:28.000
Lots of big changes coming for the podcast over the next few months, which I'm really excited for.
01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:30.640
We just dropped our and maybe I'll do a pod on this.
01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:31.119
I don't know.
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:36.399
I don't know if anybody even really cares, but maybe I'll do um something talking about like where we're gonna be.
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:42.640
Um if you guys are interested, I will be at um at Broken Arrow at the Cetus booth.
01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:47.199
We're gonna be doing uh some really fun little activations there, all kinds of good stuff.
01:13:47.359 --> 01:13:55.840
And uh um, yeah, if you guys happen to be at Broken Arrow competing or just there to visit, you know, to support loved ones, family, whatever, come stop over to the booth and say, hey, we're gonna be there.
01:13:56.079 --> 01:13:59.039
And um yeah, maybe we'll be giving out free gear.
01:13:59.119 --> 01:13:59.680
I don't really know.
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:01.520
I probably should have asked that before I said it.
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:02.960
We'll figure it out.
01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:05.439
But yeah, thanks so much for supporting, guys.
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:08.079
Um lots of really fun episodes coming down the pipeline.
01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:12.319
We just did one with Max King, which I'm excited to get out next week, as well as Aaron Tun.
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:23.199
Uh got David Norris coming on, and uh yeah, just before you know it, we're gonna be talking about the Gama and um start to get stuff ready for uh Senepe, getting coverage ready for that.
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:26.479
And uh the US Mountain Running Championships are right right around the corner.
01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:27.600
So thanks for your support.
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:28.720
Lots of big stuff coming.
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:30.000
Take care, guys.