Alan Koch: what is the differentiator between two good players? it's really their psyche. And if you can go tap into that as a coach, you might be able to get that extra one, two, three percent. and at the highest level of the games, one, two, or three percent, that might be the difference between massive gains or or a player maybe stagnating in their career or the team not having success too at the same time.
Dwayne: Welcome to the Sporting Mindset Show. I'm Dwayne. Today's guest has spent more than 20 years in professional and university football. He's coached in Major League Soccer and in the Canadian Premier League. He's also been fired, and he says that taught him more than anything else. Alan Koch joins me to talk about why fun matters when the stakes are high, why he pays more attention to process than results, and how he coaches every player as an individual. We also get into twelve hour days, burnout, and the one mental skill he says he's nailed, flushing it. Enjoy. Alan Koch, welcome. Thank you very much for joining us the today. And nicknames, do you have any, mate?
Alan Koch: Yeah, that's a good question, Dwayne. with with my surname being what it is of Germanic heritage and growing up in South Africa, it was Koch. and then when I've gone to English speaking countries, it's become Koch or Koch or so many different names. So I've had a lot of nicknames to be brutally honest from my surname. being called Kocky at different places. but I when I was young, quite a few of my mates called me Kunz, and that was because there was a German Ford who who played for Kalsuslauten in the Bundesliga. His name was Stefan Kunz. and one of my guys guy friends one day just said, Hey Kunzi. so I've been called Kunzi by my friends that I grew up with for a long time.
Dwayne: And so there's a bit of fun in those nicknames.
Alan Koch: Yeah, of course to be honest when you you you have to have fun. It's it's all banter and it's if you have a if you have a name, it's of Germanic heritage that in English could be a little bit fun, I I guess. I I just embraced it all along. It's to be honest, being a professional player and as a coach, I've been called so many names under the rainbow. you can call me whatever you want, it doesn't make any difference to me.
Dwayne: Now, just so so fun for you, obviously, the from that point of view, is is is fun something that you really make sure your players get a fair bit of when you're coaching?
Alan Koch: Yeah, to be honest, be being in a fun environment is what brings out the best of people. and I genuinely really do focus on that for my players. my challenge personally as a coach, and I had one assistant coach who's a good friend of mine, he's like, When you you say to the boys to have fun, he's like, You say it with such a serious face. He's like, You actually have to really mean it. And I and I'm like, Well, I I do mean it. It it comes from inside. And he's like, Well, you've got to show them that you actually want them to have fun. So, Yeah, it having fun in your training environment is very, very important because it can be stressful at times obviously when your environments where winning and losing has such massive implications on people's lives. So yeah, having fun within reason, of course, is massively encouraged in in every team I've ever worked for.
Dwayne: Is do you think that's a skill to be able to what I would call make sure that the grind or the hard work is fun? That you actually can build a culture around fun being the stuff that people would go, that is so mundane, you know, the basic skills we have to do, you know, the hard work that we have to do potentially in our conditioning and that sort of stuff, that it it is a it has to be a skill for coaches to be able to make it fun.
Alan Koch: I think so. I think fun has to be part of your part of your environment. Like it it's everybody commits so much to it. And I always say to play as staff, doesn't matter what role you fulfill, it it's everybody gives so much to it. And and in so many respects, you're having to be so selfless. So if we're gonna go commit and spend so much time with with each other, we have to enjoy it. and because because you can go through some very, very tough moments. Like I've I've been part of teams where You lose four games in a row. That that's not fun. But you have to make sure that people can be drawn back to the fun part of it. Even though that's probably the most challenging part. That is when you you really have to focus on trying to make sure it's a fun, relaxed, enjoyable environment because those stressful moments are not fun for anybody. In anybody who's who's lost one high performance match knows how difficult that is. So if you go and lose lose two or three, that can be incredibly challenging.
Dwayne: And and that pressure to for you know, to win and and if you are putting a few losses in a row, like do you have any strategies that you've used to steer away from the impact of those losses or or the stress that goes along with those losses? Is there any strategies you've put in place?
Alan Koch: Yeah, this is gonna sound very much like a coach, but it's focus on the process and not the outcome. and as a coach I I'm very, very foc focused on the process. Like we we have a vision, we have to start with that vision, and the and the vision doesn't start today, that starts at the end point. Where do we actually want to go? And stay true to that north star. Like that is what everything we do is working towards getting to that point. Obviously when you lose a game, it can challenge that, but the job as the coach is to really focus on the process. I I include the players in that process. They have to be aware of what the outcome is, but they need to stay with us in that moment and and not get too high with highs or too low with lows. Having said that, the the game is is so emotion-based, it's so passionate based that it I I don't blame players for when they get caught up in that wasn't the desired outcome we want to to go through. So you have to manage each individual through that process. So 'cause some players they get it. They're like, yes, we know where we want to go. We want to get to this point in six months or in nine months or twelve months. other players you lose a game or they have a bad training session. It's the end of the world for them, to be quite honest. So you have to manage each individual in a in a very, very different way. because some players get it. They're they're intrinsic, they may man figure it out, or you've worked there for a while and they understand your thought processes. Other players can be a little bit more challenging to manage, but that's the enjoyable part of coaching. Not not everybody's the same. You you Anybody that says if you you manage a group of players, you manage them all the same way, has never really been through any tough moments in coaching because n no human being is the same, and no player is the same too.
Dwayne: Yeah, I'm on there's two two things that I want to jump into there. I wanna go back to that process. Have you always been a process driven coach or has your attitude to outcome and process changed over time?
Alan Koch: I think I have been. I I think the challenge, like I've done this now for twenty something years, either in the professional game or in the university game, and I've only been fired once. and that was at my highest point when I was a major league soccer head coach in the United States. that probably taught me the most because I probably learnt the most through going through that tough experience. Like when you are very process based, but the outcome actually determines your destiny. It makes you kind of question things a little bit to be honest. But but I've I've actually gone through that process and I become even more process based. I now start further in the future than focusing on what do we have to do right now? Like it's very much about, okay, what do we have to do to get where we want to go? And that want to go has to be very, very clear. What are we trying to do for the team? What are we trying to do for the individual players? Maybe makes it a little bit easier for me because I'm not a major league soccer head coach anymore. So I don't have to go through those pressures. But I'm d definitely now a lot more focused on the process. and that's a little bit easier to do when you don't have the pressure. If you lose a match, knock knock on what I'm probably not gonna get fired if I lose one match. where in the professional game you lose one match, sometimes crazy things happen. So
Dwayne: Definitely, definitely. Now I'll go I do want to jump onto that other side where you were saying about you know, you have to treat each individual in their own way. And I think that is a real big very big challenge for coaches. How have you found that your your coaching style, how has that helped with dealing with individuals?
Alan Koch: Yeah, I I think I think my coaching style and my and my personal journey have allowed me to become who I am as a coach. Like I I've now because of my coaching journey acquired several languages. I've been exposed to so many different cultures around the world. So that perspective or or that diverse array of experiences has now allowed me to really I don't understand every player. I don't think you can ever truly understand every player completely, but it gives me a greater perspective. of where the players come from, if if they come from a different background. Like maybe I've coached a player who's come from that country or or come from that type of ethnic background that they may come from. So that that allows me to maybe connect with players on a certain level just because I've had that level of experience. I think when I hadn't had that experience or I didn't have that ability to speak a player's language or or maybe not completely aware of their culture and and where they come from, that makes it challenging. I it is There are still many, many high-level coaches to this day that don't want to get to know their players at that level. For for me, I I think it's absolutely imperative you get to know your players on a personal level, get to know them, know as much about their family background as possible. Where do they come from? What languages do they speak? What makes them tick? Because you get to a certain point. Like what is the differentiator between two good players? It's really, it's not their their technical ability or their tactical ability, it's really their psyche. And if you can go tap into that as a coach, you might be able to get that extra one, two, three percent. and at the highest level of the games, one, two, or three percent, that might be the difference between massive gains or or a player maybe stagnating in their career or the team not having success too at the same time.
Dwayne: And and did you did you learn that from being a player and having coaches who you recognized really wanted to get to know you and you then responded really positively to them?
Alan Koch: I think I think a little bit. Like I remember having a a coach, who was an English coach who, to be quite frank, I don't think he was a very good football tactician. But what a human what a human being. Like absolute gentleman, like absolute role model that you you learnt more off the pitch from him. but that made you want to play for him more on the pitch. So as much as I say, he wasn't a great football tactician. Well well, maybe he was because he was so good at connecting with people that that actually made you a better player because you wanted to go play from on the bench. then I also had a a German coach who the end of the season came and there were no meetings. There was no feedback. There was there was nothing. It was either hey we want you back or we don't want you back. We don't even bother talking to you. and very, very old school from that perspective. So I I learned from that playing experience in Germany really how not to treat players. Like I I have regular check-ins, like I we'll have a preseason meeting, we'll have a meeting after a few weeks in the season, we'll have a midseason meeting, we'll we'll have an end of season review, we'll we'll have reflection meetings, we'll have touch points with players every single day. Like we we intentionally shake each other's hands and people just think that's a greeting. That's not a greeting, that's a check-in. Like I'm looking at my players' eyes. I'm saying, hey, how are you doing? How was your day? If something needed to be asked about their families, that's the moment to ask. At the end of training, we'll also have those check-ins too. We literally will say, Thank your mates, which means go around and thank every single person. But as a coach, that's my job then to go check in. And I'll also go to my staff and be like, hey, did you see anything in the session? Did you see anything when you spoke to this player? Anything we need to be aware of? Because we want to make sure we're taking care of their personal well-being. But also making sure that they're on the right mindset to to go do the work that we need them to do.
Dwayne: Do do you have a set s sort of string of questions you might ask them to identify that? Or is it just that is it just feeling, you know, you shake their hand and you look them in the eye and you go, there's something on here, I'll ask this particular question or you just you sort of react to it, or is there anything up your sleeve that, you know, this will get some information out of them?
Alan Koch: it's very or it's very organic. it it's literally, hey, how you doing? Or or how was your day? Or if there was something that we're aware of, it's just a quick little check-in just to kind of have a bit of eye contact to make sure that they're okay. But I think it's when you see a little bit of a red flag, that's probably when my my go-to question would be like, hey, let's just catch up for a sec once we're finished. and that and that's probably the the that's the structured question, meaning Okay, we've we've kind of seen there might be something we need to ask, a couple of follow-up questions. Just that organic moment when we say goodbye to everybody at the end is very quick. That that's within two minutes, you've shake in 30 people's hands and you've said, Hey, go enjoy the rest your day. but then it'll be probably two or three guys that we'll just have a quick informal chat on the pitch and then we'll figure out if it needs to be something more formal. Maybe it'll be like, hey, once you've you've figured up, you showered and you you've cleaned up, hey, come to the office and and we'll we'll discuss a couple of things.
Dwayne: And so when you you sort of said you had regular check ins with the players throughout the whole season, are y are they expected to be presenting something back to you or is it just come on, we're just gonna we're gonna lock in this half an hour, we're gonna sit down and we're just gonna chat? Or as I said, you know, do do you expect them to come to you with some s you know I don't wanna use the word presentation, but come to you with something planned so that they've got there's almost like a topic of conversation start with when they do that, when you do those those
Alan Koch: Yeah, there it there are different meetings at different times. So we'll we'll literally have the obviously this there there's a meeting per se every day when you see each other. But then the structure meeting of coming to the office, come into the office and that's very casual. That that's literally sit down in the office, put your leg up, have a cup of tea, whatever it might be, and let's have a chit chat and and check in and see how you're doing. What questions do you have? How can we help you? that's on the pitch and then off the pitch. There are two distinct, more formal meetings where we actually go to the conference room, we bring a bring up a presentation on the TV, and we'd get into the players. I call them PPPs. It's player positional profile. So we do a true deep dive into in the four moments of the game. Okay, where do we need you to be at? And we'll show them our utopian, and then we'll do a very critical review to get their feedback, but we also give them our feedback too in terms of Hey, you are green, which means you're crushing this, this, and this. you're a red at probably this and this, which means those are massive areas of growth. and then you're an orange at this, which means you can do it, but you're not quite consistently doing it. So let's really reinforce the greens. Let's really go put a plan in place so we can make sure we address essentially deficiencies, and then the ones that they're capable of doing, doing, but not doing consistently. Now we'll include those in our training plan so we give them more exposure so they can be. become more proficient at doing that.
Dwayne: And and so from the training plan and that that incorporating that into the training plan, is there a fair bit of d detail that goes into that? Because you've got, as you said, you're you're dealing with all these individuals. It's not like one squad and you just try you just coach them as one squad. D is there is there that much detail in your training plans to say, okay, this is where we know we had a red here, we agreed that this was something we were going to work on. for this particular player, let's go and do that.
Alan Koch: Yeah, my my players will hear me yelling all the time, details, details, details. But it's the staff that I work with. They're the ones that could probably get the most exposure to wow. The level of detail that goes into planning a 19 minute training session, to be honest with some people, is mind blowing because it's literally every single individual has all these outcomes within those 90 minutes. Some some are easier because if we have two players that play the same position, their plan might be the exact same thing. We're just exposing them to different repetitions of certain things in that training session. but it is that level of detail. If we if we want to focus on the team getting better, we have to focus on the individual. So the collective training has to achieve what we need to achieve as a team, but then we have to make sure that we're hitting certain things for the individual to make sure that they're progressing forward. That might be physical, that might be tactical, that might be technical, but we have to make sure we have that in the session. so one of one of my coaches that I worked with a few years ago probably played me the biggest compliment, I think. I think it was a compliment. It might have been an insult. He literally said to me, is like, I've learned more from you in terms of what I don't do than what I actually do. And to me, I took that as a massive compliment. And he and he meant it, and he meant it that way, because it's like there is so much detail to being a coach. It doesn't matter what your code is, what your level is, there's so many things that you need to try to get across to your players in such a short amount of time. And as coaches, we control that. Like it's I use I used to Probably up until 10, 15 years ago, I'd come off and to be quite honest, I'd say fifty percent of the time I'd be like, God, that session wasn't quite what I needed it to be. And I'm gonna knock on wood as I say this now. I'd say in the last five years, probably less than five percent of the time am I coming off and being like, we didn't achieve what we needed to achieve. But that's because of our preparation. it's it's the sessions were just as good before, but now it's the layers of preparation and maybe the awareness. of how a session flows and the layout and how we have to move all the different people, your medical support staff, your strength and conditioning staff, your assistant coaches. How do we how do we manage all of those people within a training session? I I think that's the the value that I feel like I've had is my experience, is expose me to all of those different people and how to connect all of those dots.
Dwayne: And so and so in terms of you're talking about that, the the session plans, do you think the players are completely aware of the amount of detail that goes into it? And and if they were if you said no, they're they they they're not aware of the detail, if they were aware of what goes into those those sessions, do you think they will that would change their attitude to their training?
Alan Koch: I think the players that have been around the game enough, and like when you work with I've had the privilege of working with some high-level professional players that have had success at World Cups. I think those players have a good understanding of it. But then I've also had players that I coached as professional players that have become assistant coaches of mine, and they've openly admitted they're like, we thought we knew how much work you guys did. But they didn't really know how much work went into it in terms of the number of hours of watching video or analyzing a player or analyzing an opposition or all the different work in terms of putting together individual development plans for the players. So I I think high level players definitely have an awareness of it because they see it, they've lived it with you. but until they come to the other side, they don't really know exactly how much work goes into it.
Dwayne: And like from your point of view, how much how much time do you spend in that planning phase or the admin what I would call the administration side of coaching? How much time are you spending on that as opposed to the actual art of coaching, which might be those little conversations that you have with players around the around the sessions and that sort of stuff? If you had to break it up, how much is admin? How much is actual the art of coaching?
Alan Koch: Poof, that's a great question. I I do think there's a bit of overlap between nowadays between the admin and and the and the art. we run for the most part a 90-minute session on the pitch. And to to prepare that session probably takes three hours minimum in terms of making sure you've got your content and it's aligned with your parodization and your plan for the week and and for your next opposition. So That's at least three hours of that. But then there there's probably hours of of check-ins with players and having meetings with players and with staff to to go into it. So it's like well, we were talking earlier. It's like for me a 12 hour day is I've been doing 12 hour days for decades, but it doesn't feel like a 12 hour day because you're doing what you love. You're you're vested in your team, you're vested in people. it's it's a it is a lot, Dwayne. It really, it really is. I I think the part that it's enjoyable, but Obviously when anybody who's worked twelve hour days consistently for a long period of time, you know eventually you're either gonna hit a wall or you you need a break. and that's why you hear so many coaches get burnt out. Because there's always more that you can do. You you you win a game. but we didn't get this right. Or you lost a game. What what a big motivator. It's like, we have to turn this around. So you always want to improve, and you always want your players to get better. So anytime you're not really working at it, you know you're missing out on opportunity. And that's the hard part for a coach because now you have to, you have to go find that work-life balance. You have to try, obviously, and it you you should spend more time with your family and all of those types of things, because that actually makes you a better coach. But it's very, very difficult to do because the admin part can be all-encompassing. The the art of coaching can be all-encompassing. And people like me that are type A We're gonna throw ourselves into it. Like I I'm gonna give it everything I can. I always have it. It doesn't really matter what level I'm coaching at. I I've coached the professional game, the university game. I'm still the same person. I'm still the same coach. I I don't change how I work in in different environments. because to be honest and to be quite frank, I can't turn it off. And I don't want to turn it off.
Dwayne: So like you you sort of you you sort of saying there about you've done professional playing the university game, you're the same person, which I th I think that's that's a wonderful skill to be able to do because there are a lot of coaches based on where they're coaching and what they're doing, they actually do change a little bit. but for you, what do you do to keep yourself sane? You know, you t you spoke about spending time with your family there, but do you have any strategies to stop yourself from burning out 'cause you're doing the twelve hour days?
Alan Koch: Yeah, it's a good question. I I can handle some by myself and then to be honest, I need my family to to help me. And I'm very, very lucky to have a supportive wife who's traveled the globe with me for for this journey. so the things that I can control are are making sure I sleep. Like for me it's one of my priorities is eight hours of sleep. Like I go to bed as early as I can 'cause I know I'm gonna wake up early. so getting date eight hours is something I really, really prioritize for for myself. And then obviously nutrition is is massively important. Than thankfully my wife is one of an amazing cook and two incredibly supportive. So I'm well taken care of in in that department. So that allows me to keep on going. But I think my family always says this to me and and one is subjective and I think one is objective. They I'm only good at two things in life. I'm good at holidays and and I think that's very true. And then the other one is I'm good at football. And obviously the football part is subjective depending on which fan base you go ask. But We do make sure we strategize our off seasons. The off season is something that that is the time to just download a little bit, slow down, get away, enjoy some family time, go to beautiful places, so we do feel refreshed and recharged for for the next year ahead.
Dwayne: There's only so much there, there's only so much battery power, I sort of think, that you can have when you come in fresh into a season because seasons are generally quite long. you do your b your battery runs dry at some stage and I sort of think that, you know, there is there's something that needs to be recharged. So if you think of it from a coach's point of view like that, it would also have an effect on the player. So are are you how do you become aware of the dynamic in the group around their level of either mental fatigue or physical fatigue and and obviously you you your your strength and condition coaches can give you an indication of where they're at from an S and C point of view. But is that you know, how do you gauge the dynamic in the group during the season?
Alan Koch: Yeah, we get a lot of objective data. Like we have different type of tests and the guys will go jump every day in terms of seeing their fatigue levels. We have all that type of technology. So that's a massive tool. but then when we do our periodization, we make sure the players are getting time off. Like we can we can build them and we don't we don't change. Like it's our wins or losses don't impact that training load, that training cycle and and how we go work. So we'll build in at least one day's rest. When we have the ability, we'll give them two two days off during the week. we control the loads. So I think we do a pretty good job of managing the players' loads from that perspective. I I think it it's to be quite honest, it's probably harder as the coaches load. The the player's load, there's so much science that goes into it and we're all well aware of it and we're well trained in it. And I think we do a pretty good job of of that. And and if an individual player does show up with red flags, that could be objective things or it could be something the eye test. We'll have those conversations. If we need to give a player a day off or or maybe a lower session, we'll we'll go do that because we know we have to take care of their physical and their mental well-being. it's the coaches that's probably the hardest part, to be honest, because for for us, we also say, we have to take one day off. But so many times, particularly in weeks where you play two games, quite frankly, you actually just don't have the time to take it off. Like if you play a game and you've got to review that game, and then you're preparing for the next game. And then you play that game and you've got to review that game. And then you've got to go prepare for the next game. And if you're playing sometimes two games, three games in a week, there's quite frankly, there's just not enough time for you to take time off. So sometimes you know, and we'll have a chat at staff. It's like, guys, we're in a grind right now. Like, let's get through the next four weeks, five weeks, and then you know what? We'll give the boys the two days off. We're all shutting it down for those two days. so it is, it's very, very challenging from a coaching perspective because the load is a major, major challenge because there are times where you actually can't take your foot off the pedal. and I think sometimes having coached in leagues for a long, long time where we were flying, our our only downtime a lot of the time would be travel days. and sometimes it actually wasn't a bad thing if you couldn't get Wi-Fi on a plane. Because that would actually be like, hey, I I'm not going to watch the game now. I'm actually just going to sleep or or maybe have a a casual chat with with a staff member who's sitting sitting next to me. and those were actually sometimes early in my career, those were frustrating moments. You'd be like, well, what do mean there's no Wi Fi on the plane? I I can't watch the game. And then you'll be like, well, you know what, actually this is a great time. Like, let's just stop, pause, and have some conversations with the players or the doctor or whoever it might be that you're sitting next to on the plane.
Dwayne: And and those conversations, the conversations you're talking about there around you know, around the plane and that, but also the conversations with the staff around we just got to get in the grinder now for four weeks, let's get through that and then we can we can get come out the other end. Obviously those conversations are so important to be able to keep the motivation of the staff, for instance, at the right level and probably to allow them to see the light at the end of the tunnel because it'd be very easy in a four week stretch for a particular staff. to actually get bogged down in it. So you know, are are you are you very conscious about the words you use and the conversations and the questions you might ask of your staff around those particular things, around burnout or effort or l you know, longevity, you know, we've got a a a big stretch here which we need to get through.
Alan Koch: Yeah, a hundred percent. And and to be honest, it's it's actually even more challenging for for staff members that might be they might have young kids and you and you don't want them to miss out on part of their kids life at certain ages and birthdays and all those things and they shouldn't miss out on those. So when we are home, and we don't have set commitments in terms of being away for a game, it's like take the day off. Like w We'll we'll adjust, like we'll all pick up the load to help each other out. and I think almost every staff that I've worked with at every club or university is we all get that. I think at the at the at the core level when you're a coach and you're working with people, you you have to understand like things like that are massively important. So I've actually become way more I understanding is not the right word because you shouldn't have the understanding of it. It it's just way more aware. People are people. They may have wife, they may have relationships, they may have kids or other commitments. We have to be able to include that in how we work. I think I I've made massive sacrifices, but I know my family's made massive sacrifices for for my journey too. and and obviously we all recognize that's part of it, I think, on the coaching journey. That's just the sheer reality of of how it works. But I think we have to be really, really understanding to to make sure we can help set all of our colleagues up for success.
Dwayne: Do you think like th that that staff, like you do even though they might go, yeah, I'll I'll that'd be great. Thanks, I'll take the day off. Is there an element of guilt that sits there? Do you think? Or have you built a culture within the staff where they are comfortable taking the time that they need to tie take to make sure they're at their best? Or do you think that and and you know you could probably answer this question generally as well. Do you think there are a lot of staff where they see the head coach who's in there, you like you 12 hours a day? And they feel like they have to be there twelve hours a day and that they have to give up time that they might spend taking their kid to school or something like that or going and watch the Athletics Carnival, that there is that guilt or that pressure.
Alan Koch: It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant question and and two thoughts people come to mind. I I worked with a brilliant mind. I I coached FC Edmonton in the Canadian Premier League. And I had a young assistant coach, his name was Brennan Shaw, who I would get to the stadium seven in the morning. And his his mentality was out of this world because you get there at seven coach, he was there at 6 30. and we almost played a little bit of this cat and mouse game. I was like, okay, he gets at 6 30. I'll get there at 6 30. I got there at 6 30. This guy, this guy would get there at six o'clock. So I would sometimes show up at work and the pitch would be set for training already. And he he is now a major league soccer assistant coach. He has an amazing career ahead of him. He's an absolute genius. He's an amazing human being. but he he wanted it so badly and he was willing to do whatever it takes. And we were both in the trenches. Together. and his life, he was quite young at the time, allowed him that leverage to, you know what, I'm gonna push, I'm gonna be there all the time. I I hope he is now, I still speak to him quite often, but I haven't actually asked him this question. I hope he's found the work life balance a l a little bit now that he's been doing for some time. but you're right though, it's a very good question because I've also worked with another coach, it was a goalkeeper coach, who actually felt very, very guilty if he ever had to take time off. And I actually had to sit down with him one day and be like, stop. Like this is not your fault. This is life. This is how we all exist. We all have other commitments. We all have to understand those other commitments. We all have to be able to help each other out. we'll be okay. but he was so he was so vested. He gave his goalkeepers so much that he really struggled. Like a day when he couldn't be there and he had legitimate things that were family situations that he couldn't get to work. and he did feel legitimately guilty, and and I'd have to literally sit down with him and and make sure he's okay. and then kind of kind of deflect away from the work and and focus on why he wasn't at work, because he had really legitimate positive reasons, like it would be his child wasn't feeling well, or his wife needed legitimate support or something. And I'm like, Are they okay? Because at the end of the day, that was more important than. work that we do, even though we get so caught up in our our work and our journeys, we kind of need to comfort them and make sure, no, we're okay. We've got your back. We'll help you out. But are they okay? Because that's actually more important.
Dwayne: Yeah, yeah. Mate, we are running out of time here and I I've really enjoyed the chat. And I just wanted to finish with one question that, you know, you've come from a you've you've played professionally, you've gone into coaching, you've had, you know, a couple of decades of coaching now. At the end of your career, what is the the the one psychological skill or or mental skill that you would say that you've nailed and that you you can really rely on and and that it almost reflects who you actually are. What is that one psychological skill?
Alan Koch: I think this reflects who I am as a coach. I don't know if it reflects who I am as a human being, but I I I think I have acquired the ability to to flush it very quickly. and that might be we've just won a game and you've walked around in front of I used to do this in Cincinnati, you'd walk around and in front of thirty five thousand fans after game. you can feel you can feel a lot of positive energy. but the second I I got back into the change room, I'd moved on to the next game. and I can also do that now if we have a bad game. and I don't really it doesn't make any difference to me if I'm coaching in front of seventy people or seventy thousand people. I I'm still the same the same way. a poor performance or not a good result definitely impacts me. But I have developed a very, very quick mechanism of just flush it, let's put it behind us, let's move on. I think that's definitely something that I've acquired as a professional. personally, I I do still have the same mentality, but but obviously humans are humans and we have relationships and we have relationships with friends and family of decades long. So it it's that's not quite as easy to do as the the professional flush.
Dwayne: And it so it's it sits nicely in that resilience piece, doesn't it, that when you can when you can flush the good and the bad because it it it allows you to get back into the moment that you need to in, you know, what's the next thing next thing that's that's coming along. Alan, loved the chat. It was awesome. thirty minutes goes very quick when you're having a great chat like
Alan Koch: Yeah.
Dwayne: that. So but mate, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. And I look forward to the cause the the principle of this podcast is that we catch up again in maybe a couple of years' time, see where you're at and see if anything has changed, just especially around that psychological side of the sport. So really appreciate your time, Alan, and look forward to the next episode.
Alan Koch: Awesome Dwayne. Appreciate it too. Thanks lot.
Dwayne: That's our conversation with Alan Kosh. If one thing stays with you, let it be his handshake check-in. It isn't a greeting. It's a chance to look someone in the eye and ask how they're really doing. Alan also reminded us that people come before the work and that being able to flush the result and move on to the next moment is a skill you can build. Because one thing we know for certain is that mindset matters. So as you progress through your week, Think about the mindset you are bringing into your sport. If you feel you are ready to push your mental game to the next level, get in touch with me at SiSu Life. That's S-I-S-U-L-I-F-E.com.au. I'm Dwayne Nestor, and this has been the Sporting Mindset Show.
Dwayne: Welcome to the Sporting Mindset Show. I'm Dwayne. Today's guest has spent more than 20 years in professional and university football. He's coached in Major League Soccer and in the Canadian Premier League. He's also been fired, and he says that taught him more than anything else. Alan Koch joins me to talk about why fun matters when the stakes are high, why he pays more attention to process than results, and how he coaches every player as an individual. We also get into twelve hour days, burnout, and the one mental skill he says he's nailed, flushing it. Enjoy. Alan Koch, welcome. Thank you very much for joining us the today. And nicknames, do you have any, mate?
Alan Koch: Yeah, that's a good question, Dwayne. with with my surname being what it is of Germanic heritage and growing up in South Africa, it was Koch. and then when I've gone to English speaking countries, it's become Koch or Koch or so many different names. So I've had a lot of nicknames to be brutally honest from my surname. being called Kocky at different places. but I when I was young, quite a few of my mates called me Kunz, and that was because there was a German Ford who who played for Kalsuslauten in the Bundesliga. His name was Stefan Kunz. and one of my guys guy friends one day just said, Hey Kunzi. so I've been called Kunzi by my friends that I grew up with for a long time.
Dwayne: And so there's a bit of fun in those nicknames.
Alan Koch: Yeah, of course to be honest when you you you have to have fun. It's it's all banter and it's if you have a if you have a name, it's of Germanic heritage that in English could be a little bit fun, I I guess. I I just embraced it all along. It's to be honest, being a professional player and as a coach, I've been called so many names under the rainbow. you can call me whatever you want, it doesn't make any difference to me.
Dwayne: Now, just so so fun for you, obviously, the from that point of view, is is is fun something that you really make sure your players get a fair bit of when you're coaching?
Alan Koch: Yeah, to be honest, be being in a fun environment is what brings out the best of people. and I genuinely really do focus on that for my players. my challenge personally as a coach, and I had one assistant coach who's a good friend of mine, he's like, When you you say to the boys to have fun, he's like, You say it with such a serious face. He's like, You actually have to really mean it. And I and I'm like, Well, I I do mean it. It it comes from inside. And he's like, Well, you've got to show them that you actually want them to have fun. So, Yeah, it having fun in your training environment is very, very important because it can be stressful at times obviously when your environments where winning and losing has such massive implications on people's lives. So yeah, having fun within reason, of course, is massively encouraged in in every team I've ever worked for.
Dwayne: Is do you think that's a skill to be able to what I would call make sure that the grind or the hard work is fun? That you actually can build a culture around fun being the stuff that people would go, that is so mundane, you know, the basic skills we have to do, you know, the hard work that we have to do potentially in our conditioning and that sort of stuff, that it it is a it has to be a skill for coaches to be able to make it fun.
Alan Koch: I think so. I think fun has to be part of your part of your environment. Like it it's everybody commits so much to it. And I always say to play as staff, doesn't matter what role you fulfill, it it's everybody gives so much to it. And and in so many respects, you're having to be so selfless. So if we're gonna go commit and spend so much time with with each other, we have to enjoy it. and because because you can go through some very, very tough moments. Like I've I've been part of teams where You lose four games in a row. That that's not fun. But you have to make sure that people can be drawn back to the fun part of it. Even though that's probably the most challenging part. That is when you you really have to focus on trying to make sure it's a fun, relaxed, enjoyable environment because those stressful moments are not fun for anybody. In anybody who's who's lost one high performance match knows how difficult that is. So if you go and lose lose two or three, that can be incredibly challenging.
Dwayne: And and that pressure to for you know, to win and and if you are putting a few losses in a row, like do you have any strategies that you've used to steer away from the impact of those losses or or the stress that goes along with those losses? Is there any strategies you've put in place?
Alan Koch: Yeah, this is gonna sound very much like a coach, but it's focus on the process and not the outcome. and as a coach I I'm very, very foc focused on the process. Like we we have a vision, we have to start with that vision, and the and the vision doesn't start today, that starts at the end point. Where do we actually want to go? And stay true to that north star. Like that is what everything we do is working towards getting to that point. Obviously when you lose a game, it can challenge that, but the job as the coach is to really focus on the process. I I include the players in that process. They have to be aware of what the outcome is, but they need to stay with us in that moment and and not get too high with highs or too low with lows. Having said that, the the game is is so emotion-based, it's so passionate based that it I I don't blame players for when they get caught up in that wasn't the desired outcome we want to to go through. So you have to manage each individual through that process. So 'cause some players they get it. They're like, yes, we know where we want to go. We want to get to this point in six months or in nine months or twelve months. other players you lose a game or they have a bad training session. It's the end of the world for them, to be quite honest. So you have to manage each individual in a in a very, very different way. because some players get it. They're they're intrinsic, they may man figure it out, or you've worked there for a while and they understand your thought processes. Other players can be a little bit more challenging to manage, but that's the enjoyable part of coaching. Not not everybody's the same. You you Anybody that says if you you manage a group of players, you manage them all the same way, has never really been through any tough moments in coaching because n no human being is the same, and no player is the same too.
Dwayne: Yeah, I'm on there's two two things that I want to jump into there. I wanna go back to that process. Have you always been a process driven coach or has your attitude to outcome and process changed over time?
Alan Koch: I think I have been. I I think the challenge, like I've done this now for twenty something years, either in the professional game or in the university game, and I've only been fired once. and that was at my highest point when I was a major league soccer head coach in the United States. that probably taught me the most because I probably learnt the most through going through that tough experience. Like when you are very process based, but the outcome actually determines your destiny. It makes you kind of question things a little bit to be honest. But but I've I've actually gone through that process and I become even more process based. I now start further in the future than focusing on what do we have to do right now? Like it's very much about, okay, what do we have to do to get where we want to go? And that want to go has to be very, very clear. What are we trying to do for the team? What are we trying to do for the individual players? Maybe makes it a little bit easier for me because I'm not a major league soccer head coach anymore. So I don't have to go through those pressures. But I'm d definitely now a lot more focused on the process. and that's a little bit easier to do when you don't have the pressure. If you lose a match, knock knock on what I'm probably not gonna get fired if I lose one match. where in the professional game you lose one match, sometimes crazy things happen. So
Dwayne: Definitely, definitely. Now I'll go I do want to jump onto that other side where you were saying about you know, you have to treat each individual in their own way. And I think that is a real big very big challenge for coaches. How have you found that your your coaching style, how has that helped with dealing with individuals?
Alan Koch: Yeah, I I think I think my coaching style and my and my personal journey have allowed me to become who I am as a coach. Like I I've now because of my coaching journey acquired several languages. I've been exposed to so many different cultures around the world. So that perspective or or that diverse array of experiences has now allowed me to really I don't understand every player. I don't think you can ever truly understand every player completely, but it gives me a greater perspective. of where the players come from, if if they come from a different background. Like maybe I've coached a player who's come from that country or or come from that type of ethnic background that they may come from. So that that allows me to maybe connect with players on a certain level just because I've had that level of experience. I think when I hadn't had that experience or I didn't have that ability to speak a player's language or or maybe not completely aware of their culture and and where they come from, that makes it challenging. I it is There are still many, many high-level coaches to this day that don't want to get to know their players at that level. For for me, I I think it's absolutely imperative you get to know your players on a personal level, get to know them, know as much about their family background as possible. Where do they come from? What languages do they speak? What makes them tick? Because you get to a certain point. Like what is the differentiator between two good players? It's really, it's not their their technical ability or their tactical ability, it's really their psyche. And if you can go tap into that as a coach, you might be able to get that extra one, two, three percent. and at the highest level of the games, one, two, or three percent, that might be the difference between massive gains or or a player maybe stagnating in their career or the team not having success too at the same time.
Dwayne: And and did you did you learn that from being a player and having coaches who you recognized really wanted to get to know you and you then responded really positively to them?
Alan Koch: I think I think a little bit. Like I remember having a a coach, who was an English coach who, to be quite frank, I don't think he was a very good football tactician. But what a human what a human being. Like absolute gentleman, like absolute role model that you you learnt more off the pitch from him. but that made you want to play for him more on the pitch. So as much as I say, he wasn't a great football tactician. Well well, maybe he was because he was so good at connecting with people that that actually made you a better player because you wanted to go play from on the bench. then I also had a a German coach who the end of the season came and there were no meetings. There was no feedback. There was there was nothing. It was either hey we want you back or we don't want you back. We don't even bother talking to you. and very, very old school from that perspective. So I I learned from that playing experience in Germany really how not to treat players. Like I I have regular check-ins, like I we'll have a preseason meeting, we'll have a meeting after a few weeks in the season, we'll have a midseason meeting, we'll we'll have an end of season review, we'll we'll have reflection meetings, we'll have touch points with players every single day. Like we we intentionally shake each other's hands and people just think that's a greeting. That's not a greeting, that's a check-in. Like I'm looking at my players' eyes. I'm saying, hey, how are you doing? How was your day? If something needed to be asked about their families, that's the moment to ask. At the end of training, we'll also have those check-ins too. We literally will say, Thank your mates, which means go around and thank every single person. But as a coach, that's my job then to go check in. And I'll also go to my staff and be like, hey, did you see anything in the session? Did you see anything when you spoke to this player? Anything we need to be aware of? Because we want to make sure we're taking care of their personal well-being. But also making sure that they're on the right mindset to to go do the work that we need them to do.
Dwayne: Do do you have a set s sort of string of questions you might ask them to identify that? Or is it just that is it just feeling, you know, you shake their hand and you look them in the eye and you go, there's something on here, I'll ask this particular question or you just you sort of react to it, or is there anything up your sleeve that, you know, this will get some information out of them?
Alan Koch: it's very or it's very organic. it it's literally, hey, how you doing? Or or how was your day? Or if there was something that we're aware of, it's just a quick little check-in just to kind of have a bit of eye contact to make sure that they're okay. But I think it's when you see a little bit of a red flag, that's probably when my my go-to question would be like, hey, let's just catch up for a sec once we're finished. and that and that's probably the the that's the structured question, meaning Okay, we've we've kind of seen there might be something we need to ask, a couple of follow-up questions. Just that organic moment when we say goodbye to everybody at the end is very quick. That that's within two minutes, you've shake in 30 people's hands and you've said, Hey, go enjoy the rest your day. but then it'll be probably two or three guys that we'll just have a quick informal chat on the pitch and then we'll figure out if it needs to be something more formal. Maybe it'll be like, hey, once you've you've figured up, you showered and you you've cleaned up, hey, come to the office and and we'll we'll discuss a couple of things.
Dwayne: And so when you you sort of said you had regular check ins with the players throughout the whole season, are y are they expected to be presenting something back to you or is it just come on, we're just gonna we're gonna lock in this half an hour, we're gonna sit down and we're just gonna chat? Or as I said, you know, do do you expect them to come to you with some s you know I don't wanna use the word presentation, but come to you with something planned so that they've got there's almost like a topic of conversation start with when they do that, when you do those those
Alan Koch: Yeah, there it there are different meetings at different times. So we'll we'll literally have the obviously this there there's a meeting per se every day when you see each other. But then the structure meeting of coming to the office, come into the office and that's very casual. That that's literally sit down in the office, put your leg up, have a cup of tea, whatever it might be, and let's have a chit chat and and check in and see how you're doing. What questions do you have? How can we help you? that's on the pitch and then off the pitch. There are two distinct, more formal meetings where we actually go to the conference room, we bring a bring up a presentation on the TV, and we'd get into the players. I call them PPPs. It's player positional profile. So we do a true deep dive into in the four moments of the game. Okay, where do we need you to be at? And we'll show them our utopian, and then we'll do a very critical review to get their feedback, but we also give them our feedback too in terms of Hey, you are green, which means you're crushing this, this, and this. you're a red at probably this and this, which means those are massive areas of growth. and then you're an orange at this, which means you can do it, but you're not quite consistently doing it. So let's really reinforce the greens. Let's really go put a plan in place so we can make sure we address essentially deficiencies, and then the ones that they're capable of doing, doing, but not doing consistently. Now we'll include those in our training plan so we give them more exposure so they can be. become more proficient at doing that.
Dwayne: And and so from the training plan and that that incorporating that into the training plan, is there a fair bit of d detail that goes into that? Because you've got, as you said, you're you're dealing with all these individuals. It's not like one squad and you just try you just coach them as one squad. D is there is there that much detail in your training plans to say, okay, this is where we know we had a red here, we agreed that this was something we were going to work on. for this particular player, let's go and do that.
Alan Koch: Yeah, my my players will hear me yelling all the time, details, details, details. But it's the staff that I work with. They're the ones that could probably get the most exposure to wow. The level of detail that goes into planning a 19 minute training session, to be honest with some people, is mind blowing because it's literally every single individual has all these outcomes within those 90 minutes. Some some are easier because if we have two players that play the same position, their plan might be the exact same thing. We're just exposing them to different repetitions of certain things in that training session. but it is that level of detail. If we if we want to focus on the team getting better, we have to focus on the individual. So the collective training has to achieve what we need to achieve as a team, but then we have to make sure that we're hitting certain things for the individual to make sure that they're progressing forward. That might be physical, that might be tactical, that might be technical, but we have to make sure we have that in the session. so one of one of my coaches that I worked with a few years ago probably played me the biggest compliment, I think. I think it was a compliment. It might have been an insult. He literally said to me, is like, I've learned more from you in terms of what I don't do than what I actually do. And to me, I took that as a massive compliment. And he and he meant it, and he meant it that way, because it's like there is so much detail to being a coach. It doesn't matter what your code is, what your level is, there's so many things that you need to try to get across to your players in such a short amount of time. And as coaches, we control that. Like it's I use I used to Probably up until 10, 15 years ago, I'd come off and to be quite honest, I'd say fifty percent of the time I'd be like, God, that session wasn't quite what I needed it to be. And I'm gonna knock on wood as I say this now. I'd say in the last five years, probably less than five percent of the time am I coming off and being like, we didn't achieve what we needed to achieve. But that's because of our preparation. it's it's the sessions were just as good before, but now it's the layers of preparation and maybe the awareness. of how a session flows and the layout and how we have to move all the different people, your medical support staff, your strength and conditioning staff, your assistant coaches. How do we how do we manage all of those people within a training session? I I think that's the the value that I feel like I've had is my experience, is expose me to all of those different people and how to connect all of those dots.
Dwayne: And so and so in terms of you're talking about that, the the session plans, do you think the players are completely aware of the amount of detail that goes into it? And and if they were if you said no, they're they they they're not aware of the detail, if they were aware of what goes into those those sessions, do you think they will that would change their attitude to their training?
Alan Koch: I think the players that have been around the game enough, and like when you work with I've had the privilege of working with some high-level professional players that have had success at World Cups. I think those players have a good understanding of it. But then I've also had players that I coached as professional players that have become assistant coaches of mine, and they've openly admitted they're like, we thought we knew how much work you guys did. But they didn't really know how much work went into it in terms of the number of hours of watching video or analyzing a player or analyzing an opposition or all the different work in terms of putting together individual development plans for the players. So I I think high level players definitely have an awareness of it because they see it, they've lived it with you. but until they come to the other side, they don't really know exactly how much work goes into it.
Dwayne: And like from your point of view, how much how much time do you spend in that planning phase or the admin what I would call the administration side of coaching? How much time are you spending on that as opposed to the actual art of coaching, which might be those little conversations that you have with players around the around the sessions and that sort of stuff? If you had to break it up, how much is admin? How much is actual the art of coaching?
Alan Koch: Poof, that's a great question. I I do think there's a bit of overlap between nowadays between the admin and and the and the art. we run for the most part a 90-minute session on the pitch. And to to prepare that session probably takes three hours minimum in terms of making sure you've got your content and it's aligned with your parodization and your plan for the week and and for your next opposition. So That's at least three hours of that. But then there there's probably hours of of check-ins with players and having meetings with players and with staff to to go into it. So it's like well, we were talking earlier. It's like for me a 12 hour day is I've been doing 12 hour days for decades, but it doesn't feel like a 12 hour day because you're doing what you love. You're you're vested in your team, you're vested in people. it's it's a it is a lot, Dwayne. It really, it really is. I I think the part that it's enjoyable, but Obviously when anybody who's worked twelve hour days consistently for a long period of time, you know eventually you're either gonna hit a wall or you you need a break. and that's why you hear so many coaches get burnt out. Because there's always more that you can do. You you you win a game. but we didn't get this right. Or you lost a game. What what a big motivator. It's like, we have to turn this around. So you always want to improve, and you always want your players to get better. So anytime you're not really working at it, you know you're missing out on opportunity. And that's the hard part for a coach because now you have to, you have to go find that work-life balance. You have to try, obviously, and it you you should spend more time with your family and all of those types of things, because that actually makes you a better coach. But it's very, very difficult to do because the admin part can be all-encompassing. The the art of coaching can be all-encompassing. And people like me that are type A We're gonna throw ourselves into it. Like I I'm gonna give it everything I can. I always have it. It doesn't really matter what level I'm coaching at. I I've coached the professional game, the university game. I'm still the same person. I'm still the same coach. I I don't change how I work in in different environments. because to be honest and to be quite frank, I can't turn it off. And I don't want to turn it off.
Dwayne: So like you you sort of you you sort of saying there about you've done professional playing the university game, you're the same person, which I th I think that's that's a wonderful skill to be able to do because there are a lot of coaches based on where they're coaching and what they're doing, they actually do change a little bit. but for you, what do you do to keep yourself sane? You know, you t you spoke about spending time with your family there, but do you have any strategies to stop yourself from burning out 'cause you're doing the twelve hour days?
Alan Koch: Yeah, it's a good question. I I can handle some by myself and then to be honest, I need my family to to help me. And I'm very, very lucky to have a supportive wife who's traveled the globe with me for for this journey. so the things that I can control are are making sure I sleep. Like for me it's one of my priorities is eight hours of sleep. Like I go to bed as early as I can 'cause I know I'm gonna wake up early. so getting date eight hours is something I really, really prioritize for for myself. And then obviously nutrition is is massively important. Than thankfully my wife is one of an amazing cook and two incredibly supportive. So I'm well taken care of in in that department. So that allows me to keep on going. But I think my family always says this to me and and one is subjective and I think one is objective. They I'm only good at two things in life. I'm good at holidays and and I think that's very true. And then the other one is I'm good at football. And obviously the football part is subjective depending on which fan base you go ask. But We do make sure we strategize our off seasons. The off season is something that that is the time to just download a little bit, slow down, get away, enjoy some family time, go to beautiful places, so we do feel refreshed and recharged for for the next year ahead.
Dwayne: There's only so much there, there's only so much battery power, I sort of think, that you can have when you come in fresh into a season because seasons are generally quite long. you do your b your battery runs dry at some stage and I sort of think that, you know, there is there's something that needs to be recharged. So if you think of it from a coach's point of view like that, it would also have an effect on the player. So are are you how do you become aware of the dynamic in the group around their level of either mental fatigue or physical fatigue and and obviously you you your your strength and condition coaches can give you an indication of where they're at from an S and C point of view. But is that you know, how do you gauge the dynamic in the group during the season?
Alan Koch: Yeah, we get a lot of objective data. Like we have different type of tests and the guys will go jump every day in terms of seeing their fatigue levels. We have all that type of technology. So that's a massive tool. but then when we do our periodization, we make sure the players are getting time off. Like we can we can build them and we don't we don't change. Like it's our wins or losses don't impact that training load, that training cycle and and how we go work. So we'll build in at least one day's rest. When we have the ability, we'll give them two two days off during the week. we control the loads. So I think we do a pretty good job of managing the players' loads from that perspective. I I think it it's to be quite honest, it's probably harder as the coaches load. The the player's load, there's so much science that goes into it and we're all well aware of it and we're well trained in it. And I think we do a pretty good job of of that. And and if an individual player does show up with red flags, that could be objective things or it could be something the eye test. We'll have those conversations. If we need to give a player a day off or or maybe a lower session, we'll we'll go do that because we know we have to take care of their physical and their mental well-being. it's the coaches that's probably the hardest part, to be honest, because for for us, we also say, we have to take one day off. But so many times, particularly in weeks where you play two games, quite frankly, you actually just don't have the time to take it off. Like if you play a game and you've got to review that game, and then you're preparing for the next game. And then you play that game and you've got to review that game. And then you've got to go prepare for the next game. And if you're playing sometimes two games, three games in a week, there's quite frankly, there's just not enough time for you to take time off. So sometimes you know, and we'll have a chat at staff. It's like, guys, we're in a grind right now. Like, let's get through the next four weeks, five weeks, and then you know what? We'll give the boys the two days off. We're all shutting it down for those two days. so it is, it's very, very challenging from a coaching perspective because the load is a major, major challenge because there are times where you actually can't take your foot off the pedal. and I think sometimes having coached in leagues for a long, long time where we were flying, our our only downtime a lot of the time would be travel days. and sometimes it actually wasn't a bad thing if you couldn't get Wi-Fi on a plane. Because that would actually be like, hey, I I'm not going to watch the game now. I'm actually just going to sleep or or maybe have a a casual chat with with a staff member who's sitting sitting next to me. and those were actually sometimes early in my career, those were frustrating moments. You'd be like, well, what do mean there's no Wi Fi on the plane? I I can't watch the game. And then you'll be like, well, you know what, actually this is a great time. Like, let's just stop, pause, and have some conversations with the players or the doctor or whoever it might be that you're sitting next to on the plane.
Dwayne: And and those conversations, the conversations you're talking about there around you know, around the plane and that, but also the conversations with the staff around we just got to get in the grinder now for four weeks, let's get through that and then we can we can get come out the other end. Obviously those conversations are so important to be able to keep the motivation of the staff, for instance, at the right level and probably to allow them to see the light at the end of the tunnel because it'd be very easy in a four week stretch for a particular staff. to actually get bogged down in it. So you know, are are you are you very conscious about the words you use and the conversations and the questions you might ask of your staff around those particular things, around burnout or effort or l you know, longevity, you know, we've got a a a big stretch here which we need to get through.
Alan Koch: Yeah, a hundred percent. And and to be honest, it's it's actually even more challenging for for staff members that might be they might have young kids and you and you don't want them to miss out on part of their kids life at certain ages and birthdays and all those things and they shouldn't miss out on those. So when we are home, and we don't have set commitments in terms of being away for a game, it's like take the day off. Like w We'll we'll adjust, like we'll all pick up the load to help each other out. and I think almost every staff that I've worked with at every club or university is we all get that. I think at the at the at the core level when you're a coach and you're working with people, you you have to understand like things like that are massively important. So I've actually become way more I understanding is not the right word because you shouldn't have the understanding of it. It it's just way more aware. People are people. They may have wife, they may have relationships, they may have kids or other commitments. We have to be able to include that in how we work. I think I I've made massive sacrifices, but I know my family's made massive sacrifices for for my journey too. and and obviously we all recognize that's part of it, I think, on the coaching journey. That's just the sheer reality of of how it works. But I think we have to be really, really understanding to to make sure we can help set all of our colleagues up for success.
Dwayne: Do you think like th that that staff, like you do even though they might go, yeah, I'll I'll that'd be great. Thanks, I'll take the day off. Is there an element of guilt that sits there? Do you think? Or have you built a culture within the staff where they are comfortable taking the time that they need to tie take to make sure they're at their best? Or do you think that and and you know you could probably answer this question generally as well. Do you think there are a lot of staff where they see the head coach who's in there, you like you 12 hours a day? And they feel like they have to be there twelve hours a day and that they have to give up time that they might spend taking their kid to school or something like that or going and watch the Athletics Carnival, that there is that guilt or that pressure.
Alan Koch: It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant question and and two thoughts people come to mind. I I worked with a brilliant mind. I I coached FC Edmonton in the Canadian Premier League. And I had a young assistant coach, his name was Brennan Shaw, who I would get to the stadium seven in the morning. And his his mentality was out of this world because you get there at seven coach, he was there at 6 30. and we almost played a little bit of this cat and mouse game. I was like, okay, he gets at 6 30. I'll get there at 6 30. I got there at 6 30. This guy, this guy would get there at six o'clock. So I would sometimes show up at work and the pitch would be set for training already. And he he is now a major league soccer assistant coach. He has an amazing career ahead of him. He's an absolute genius. He's an amazing human being. but he he wanted it so badly and he was willing to do whatever it takes. And we were both in the trenches. Together. and his life, he was quite young at the time, allowed him that leverage to, you know what, I'm gonna push, I'm gonna be there all the time. I I hope he is now, I still speak to him quite often, but I haven't actually asked him this question. I hope he's found the work life balance a l a little bit now that he's been doing for some time. but you're right though, it's a very good question because I've also worked with another coach, it was a goalkeeper coach, who actually felt very, very guilty if he ever had to take time off. And I actually had to sit down with him one day and be like, stop. Like this is not your fault. This is life. This is how we all exist. We all have other commitments. We all have to understand those other commitments. We all have to be able to help each other out. we'll be okay. but he was so he was so vested. He gave his goalkeepers so much that he really struggled. Like a day when he couldn't be there and he had legitimate things that were family situations that he couldn't get to work. and he did feel legitimately guilty, and and I'd have to literally sit down with him and and make sure he's okay. and then kind of kind of deflect away from the work and and focus on why he wasn't at work, because he had really legitimate positive reasons, like it would be his child wasn't feeling well, or his wife needed legitimate support or something. And I'm like, Are they okay? Because at the end of the day, that was more important than. work that we do, even though we get so caught up in our our work and our journeys, we kind of need to comfort them and make sure, no, we're okay. We've got your back. We'll help you out. But are they okay? Because that's actually more important.
Dwayne: Yeah, yeah. Mate, we are running out of time here and I I've really enjoyed the chat. And I just wanted to finish with one question that, you know, you've come from a you've you've played professionally, you've gone into coaching, you've had, you know, a couple of decades of coaching now. At the end of your career, what is the the the one psychological skill or or mental skill that you would say that you've nailed and that you you can really rely on and and that it almost reflects who you actually are. What is that one psychological skill?
Alan Koch: I think this reflects who I am as a coach. I don't know if it reflects who I am as a human being, but I I I think I have acquired the ability to to flush it very quickly. and that might be we've just won a game and you've walked around in front of I used to do this in Cincinnati, you'd walk around and in front of thirty five thousand fans after game. you can feel you can feel a lot of positive energy. but the second I I got back into the change room, I'd moved on to the next game. and I can also do that now if we have a bad game. and I don't really it doesn't make any difference to me if I'm coaching in front of seventy people or seventy thousand people. I I'm still the same the same way. a poor performance or not a good result definitely impacts me. But I have developed a very, very quick mechanism of just flush it, let's put it behind us, let's move on. I think that's definitely something that I've acquired as a professional. personally, I I do still have the same mentality, but but obviously humans are humans and we have relationships and we have relationships with friends and family of decades long. So it it's that's not quite as easy to do as the the professional flush.
Dwayne: And it so it's it sits nicely in that resilience piece, doesn't it, that when you can when you can flush the good and the bad because it it it allows you to get back into the moment that you need to in, you know, what's the next thing next thing that's that's coming along. Alan, loved the chat. It was awesome. thirty minutes goes very quick when you're having a great chat like
Alan Koch: Yeah.
Dwayne: that. So but mate, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. And I look forward to the cause the the principle of this podcast is that we catch up again in maybe a couple of years' time, see where you're at and see if anything has changed, just especially around that psychological side of the sport. So really appreciate your time, Alan, and look forward to the next episode.
Alan Koch: Awesome Dwayne. Appreciate it too. Thanks lot.
Dwayne: That's our conversation with Alan Kosh. If one thing stays with you, let it be his handshake check-in. It isn't a greeting. It's a chance to look someone in the eye and ask how they're really doing. Alan also reminded us that people come before the work and that being able to flush the result and move on to the next moment is a skill you can build. Because one thing we know for certain is that mindset matters. So as you progress through your week, Think about the mindset you are bringing into your sport. If you feel you are ready to push your mental game to the next level, get in touch with me at SiSu Life. That's S-I-S-U-L-I-F-E.com.au. I'm Dwayne Nestor, and this has been the Sporting Mindset Show.
