Unspoken Issues #135 - Mutant X #1

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Fun Spoken Issues.
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Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the Unspoken Issues podcast this
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go round. We're going to be discussing a comic book
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that I chose, but you were the one that threw
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it out there?
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Is that right, Chris? And leave?
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Yeah, this is going back to the poll was back
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in I think in October. It was a landslide. I
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don't have the numbers, but between help us decide a
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topic for an upcoming episode, which he wrote in a
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strange new world. Do you want to hear about Superboy
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in a Kirby Commandy inspired setting or havoc in the
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Dark X Men universe of mutint X and mut Nicks
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one handily.
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Wow.
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The super Boy issue was issue fifty and it started
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a four part story where he woke up in the
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almost Planet of the Apes type thing, like a Commandy
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type world. I liked it a lot when it came
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out back in the late nineties. I haven't reread it
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since then. The Mute and X was the clear winner.
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All right, So mute X.
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Now I knew a little bit about this comic book,
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so much so that I was like, one point, I'd
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love to read what happens here because it's this is
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one of those ones that's kind of speaking my language.
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I'm an alternate universe type of guy. Evan's not able
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to join us tonight, but he and I have had
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many conversations about what if comics. We're both big fans
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of those alternate universe tales. So when I heard that
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Havoc was going to be going into an alternate universe,
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so that's what the premise of Mutant X was, I
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was like, Oh, that sounds like something I could dig.
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And I ended up with a ton of these issues
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at some point. I would love to catalog every time
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that I've said I own these issues, but I've never
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read them. I have so many of these and this
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is one of them. I'm pretty certain I have the
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first maybe fifteen issues of Mutant X.
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This was an auction find.
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Didn't know what I was getting when I got it,
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but I remember going through the long box and this
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guy had a ton of nineties comics bagged and bored
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Mutant X. I had a nice little run on mute
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next and I was like, what is this about?
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Learn what it was about? And I was like, put
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it on.
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I got to read this at some point, so Finally,
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this gives me the excuse to sit down and read
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mutant X. And we're doing mute X number one, so
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this is ninety eight. Were you picking this up or
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what was going on here?
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End of the world.
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I was on this from the beginning. I was excited
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when it was announcer. I guess I'd just seen ads
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and stuff. Interestingly, the lead up to it in X
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factor one forty nine. I don't have it in front
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of me, but there was an X factor issue where
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Habit dies.
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It's one forty nine, I'm pretty sure.
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Okay, And we see in mute next number one his
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soul is transported into this other universe where their habit
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dies at the same time, and he takes over to
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their Havoc's body. He's in this alternate universe of a
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darker version of the Marvel universe. And this is after
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Agia Apocalypse. We had else worlds and what if there
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wasn't totally unique, but it was all so not as
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lousy as it's been in the last ten or fifteen years,
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where everything is a multiverse alternate universe type thing. It
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was still fairly novel at this point, especially an ongoing series.
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If I remember, right, this was intended to be twelve
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issues and then they were going to send Havoc back
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to the main Marvel universe. But it was such a
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success they extended it and it went for a few years.
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Having an ongoing alternate universe type thing was pretty novel,
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and I really enjoyed all of the alternate versions of
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all these familiar characters. And it's like a clever way
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for them for Marvel. Habits cake and Eat it too
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is in regards to killing a big character, you owe
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he's going to be back. You get the emotional impact
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with the characters that are going to mourn and if
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the reader knows he's going to be back, because he's
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in this other universe now and they're eventually they're going
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to bring him back. So they got to now, you know,
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they just kill somebody, and you know, I mean, how
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many times can the character. I don't want to get
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onto an old man yellow soapbox, but come on, guys,
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getting really annoying now, right, But at this point, it
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was a unique way to do it. I was on
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from the early going. I remember it was supposed to
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end at twelve, but they continued it and I kind
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of lost interest in the teens and then eventually fell off.
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It's all on the Marvel Universe app now, the whole series.
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I planned to go through and read everything I haven't
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read yet. I remember the late nineties, early two thousands.
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Once it got into the later stories past what they
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had planned initially, it wasn't quite as good. I ended
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up dropping off.
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Was the one of the reasons when you picked the
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book up mutet X number one. Was it because Howard
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Mackie's name was associated to it.
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It might have been because I liked Howard McKee's Ghostwrider stuff.
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He had done some Spider Man stuff that I kind
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of liked it. He had been in charge of the
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Amazing Spider Man and Peter Parker Spider Man relaunches around
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this same time, so he was kind of a big
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deal for Marvel in the late nineties. I honestly can't
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remember I cared that much because I was seventeen eighteen
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when this came out. I was probably just thinking, Hey,
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this is going to be cool. It's got an evil
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archangel in it.
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Well, I know you're a Ghostwriter fan.
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I know you're a Danny Ketch fan, and we've talked
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about Ghost writers so much on here, I was like,
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was he recognizing that name from that book going on
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to this other book?
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Yeah, But I don't know that it was necessarily factored
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in as much as just the concept being cool.
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Okay, here's the thing.
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Back in the nineties, that's the exact way that I'm
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making decisions on comics. I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh,
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this concept is neat. I'm not paying attention to who's
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writing it. And I know I've said that many times
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on here. I was visually attracted to a comic before
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I even thought of who was writing it. I read
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a lot of good stuff because of how things were drawn,
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So that's not a detriment. It's just that I wasn't
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giving that much thought as I do nowadays.
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Let me give our listeners.
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If you haven't ever heard of Howard Mackie Mike's Amazing
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World of Comics summary here for you. He starts in
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Marvel in the late eighties, writing odd issues here and there,
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and in eighty nine he starts a small run on
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Marvel Comics Presents in issue twenty four with an eight
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issue story that features Havoc. He's also writing a run
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on Avenger Spotlight telling a Hawkeye story up to March
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of nineteen ninety that's when he has given the reins
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to write the first issue of the new Ghostwriter series.
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And we know as far as the nineties go, Mackie
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and Ghostwriter are going to be joint of the hip
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until late nineteen ninety five, which is about seventy issues,
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and in August of nineteen ninety five, following a tiny
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run by John Francis Moore, Mackie has given the writing
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duties to X Factor, starting with issue one hundred and fifteen.
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By November of nineteen ninety five, Mackie is splitting his
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duties writing X Factor and Adjective List Spider Man, and
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then in July of nineteen ninety eight, Mackie finishes his
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run with X Factor on issue one forty nine, and
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then by August twelfth, Mute Nex number one is.
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On the shelves.
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So Mackie is taking that character. I mean, clearly he's
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got a love for Havoc. Yeah, you mentioned issue one
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forty nine, that's where Mackie's run stops on X Factor.
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And we're going right into mutin X.
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Well, I get it, I get it, oh Man, well,
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let's talk about the penciler. Tom Rainyight is doing penciling
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duties on this book as well. Tom starts penciling in
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late nineteen ninety and does some odd jobs some issues
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of Uncanny X Men.
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You might have recognized his art on if you picked up.
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Any Warlock and in the Infinity Watch or Warlock chronicles, that
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stuff that kind of sticks out there. In nineteen ninety five,
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Rainy heads the image doing two issues of Team one
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storm Watch, which I think there were only two issues
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of that if I remember right.
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And he does what works by July of ninety six.
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He starts a pretty consistent run on storm Watch up
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to issue fifty in August of nineteen ninety seven. Then
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after a single issue of DV eight, he then picks
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up Pendling Pindling penciling duties on mutin XT. His work
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on the title last for four issues one, three and five.
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On Mutant X.
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So that's where we see Tom Rady come in. He's
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not here very long, but his art in this book,
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if you've seen any of those other titles, you might
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be aware of what we're talking about.
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That's interesting that he didn't do very many because when
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I think Tom Rainy. The first thing I think is
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Mutant X, because this is probably the first thing I'd
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ever read that he was the artist on, at least
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in this first issue. I really like his stuff, but
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I don't recall him being off that quickly.
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Yeah, ChRI only.
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That same here issues one through three and then issue five.
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I recognize him from the Warlock in the Infinity Watch.
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That's the art that it reminds me of. I didn't
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read much of that, but my buddy had plenty of
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those books, and I'm pretty sure I saw the covers
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inked by Andrew Papoy, lettered by Chris Eliopolis, and colored
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by Gina going Rainy. I did not look to see
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if that is Tom's wife? Right, all right, well, I'm
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ready for a synopsis here, all right.
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Welcome to the world of Mutant X.
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Here, Alex Summers is the leader of the Six, a
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team made up of distorted versions of people that we
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know from the six to one to six. There's blood Storm,
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a fierce and deadly vampiric version of Storm the Brute.
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He is a terrifying green monster version thumbed down version
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of the beast Iceman whose cold powers have consumed his humanity,
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the fallen, a menacing angel and that's with a capital
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A with a dark, fiery presence, and at the center
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of it all his wife in this reality, Madeline Pryor,
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now the powerful and commanding Marvel Woman.
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That's what her code name is.
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That's right.
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The story opens with chaos as the Six leap into
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action against towering mechanical sentinels intent on purging mutants from
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the gene pool. In the heat of battle, Alex dives
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to protect Maddie from a blast and its hit and
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thrown into a river, falling unconscious, nearly drowning. At this
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same moment, the Alex Summers we are familiar with, known
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as Havoc, experiences what hel leaves is the moment of
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his death during a mission gone wrong in his reality,
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an explosion, a flash of light, and then nothingness. Instead
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of dying, Alex wakes up in the strange and twisted
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world of mutin X, one that feels familiar but is
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utterly wrong. Dispatching the last sentinel, Alex is left questioning
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everything he knows. He's not the Alex Summers of this world,
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but he doesn't understand what's happened or how he ended
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up here. One thing is certain. This world is far
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more dangerous and unpredictable than the one he left behind.
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If he's going to survive, he'll need.
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To learn fast.
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As Alex Summer struggles to make sense of his new reality,
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Madeline Pryor implores him to remember their shared life together,
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revealing their son, Scottie, in a history that feels foreign
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to him. Despite her heartfelt please, Alex remains resistant, his
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memories fragmented in a sense of identity shaky. The urgency
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to intensifies when Aurro Bloodstorm reports that shie Old terrorists
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have seized Liberty Island, threatening mutant lives. Madeleine's desperation piques
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as she begs Alex to help save their son, who
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has caught in the crossfire. The team, known as the
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Six rallies for action, but Alex's internal conflict deepens. He's
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skeptical of this world and its truths, but realizes the
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stakes are too high to ignore. The story accelerates as
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Alex reluctantly agrees to aid the mission. The Six prepare
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for a confrontation on Liberty Island, with tensions and doubts
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hanging thick in the air. As the group moves out,
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Alex is left grappling with the weight of his supposed history,
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his connection to Madeline, and the danger awaiting them. Colonel
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Nick Fury positions himself on Liberty Island, rallying his Shield
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Forces with a sinister plan. The Legacy Virus, a weapon
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designed to target mutants and enhance beings. Fury threatens to
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detonate it unless all super freaks leave the country. His
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ultimatum sense shockwaves through the mutant community, escalating tensions to
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a breaking point. The Six arrive, determined to stop Fury's madness.
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Madeline Pryor, seething with Fury as Scotty is at Liberty
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Island at that moment, implores Alex Summers to recall their
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shared past and the pain they endured when their son
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Scotty was taken from them. Or Desperate pleas are met
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with Alex's continued confusion, his memories fragmented and unreliable. The
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Shield Forces deploy advanced Mandroid units to combat the Six.
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The mutants clash with Furi's troops and a chaotic display
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of powers and determination. The Fallen is taken out early,
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while Hank the Brute and Aurro Bloodstorm struggle against overwhelming odds. Madeline,
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fueled by her rage and amplified abilities as the Goblin Queen,
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unleashes a terrifying assault, declaring her resolve to save Scotty
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at any cost. Alex's doubts begin to resurface. He questions
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the reality of the situation, wondering if it's all an
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elaborate illusion. But as the fight reaches on and Fury's
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forces falter Wow, Fury's forces falter Alex, Alex is forced.
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To confront the moment's urgency.
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Fury is sinister deploy to use Scotty as bait becomes clear,
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adding a personal stake to the conflict. Madeline's maternal instincts
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and unyielding power turn the tide, inspiring the six to
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rally Electra. Scotty's nanny joins in the fight and takes
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out Fury's four with lethal precision. The battle reaches its
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climax when Alex confronts Fury directly. Harnessing his energy powers,
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Alex blast Fury into the river and disables the Legacy
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virus device, ensuring the safety of all mutants and enhanced beings.
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As the dust settles, Scotty is reunited with his mother,
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but Alex's turmoil remains unresolved. His amnesia and just disjointing
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memories prevent him from fully embracing the role of a
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father or leader. In a poignant moment, Scotty's rejection of
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Alex as his father cuts deep, leaving Alex questioning his
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identity and purpose. The issue ends on a foreboding note
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as Alex recalls the explosion caused by Greystone's time displacement machine,
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triggering fragmented memories of his death.
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Oh my goodness, there it is. The synopsis is done.
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A lot of wow.
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Was there a wheels turn?
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So, I mean, already we're in this other world and
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we got Fury in his USA USA USA agenda, which
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you know, kick everybody out of here.
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My gosh, I was like, this is this is went again?
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Ninety eight? Yeah, ninety eight, We're looking at this.
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I mean, boy, it just felt like nothing's changed, or
288
00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.360
more things change them where they stay the same. But
289
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Nick Fury is not like that obviously in the six
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one six, but just you can see it's not you know,
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maybe there is a couple bad days that he had
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that could turn him into this pretty easily.
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Right, So when you read it, did you have the
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Shield files at the end of your issue? I did, Yes, Yes,
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I just wanted to point out the Shield Moniker means
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something different in this universe.
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Do you remember what it is?
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Saviors of humanity by intervention and the evolution of life
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form devians.
300
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So we're thrown into this new world. We're the fish
301
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out of water. This is a character that has no
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00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:54.360
idea what's going on, and he's thrown into this weird
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00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.039
version of his own reality.
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I love it.
305
00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.639
One of the interesting things about the way Mackie sets
306
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.480
up all these characters. They're all like twisted versions of
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00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:06.360
you know X Men characters. These versions all have a
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basis in the six one six reality where things went
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a little differently, like you know, Bloodstorm Aroro and like
310
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and Free of Me. Because most of these storylines are
311
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:20.440
only unfamiliar with, mostly from you know, the trading cards,
312
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.240
because I haven't read a lot of the eighties X
313
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:26.039
Men stuff. You know, at one point, Aroro was bitten
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by Dracula or a vampire and became a vampire. She
315
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.360
came she was changed back at some point, but in
316
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:34.720
this reality she never changed back. She was always a vampire.
317
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You know. Warren was turned into Archangel in sixty one six,
318
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.080
and in this universe he's a darker version. Instead of
319
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.000
the metal wings, he has leathery bat wings, and he's
320
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.559
a lot more demonic. His name is the Fallen, so
321
00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:53.240
obviously Angel the Falling commercial as a demon. Uh. Prior
322
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.279
all that stuff with the Goblin Queen, that was a
323
00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.600
late eighties X Men storyline, and I believe the thing
324
00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.679
with Bobby Drake and was part of the there was
325
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.879
a crossover where the X Men and the s Guardians
326
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.000
were involved, but I don't remember the name of it
327
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:08.440
off the top of my head. I assume that's where
328
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:10.960
the seeds of that came from. And then this reality
329
00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:16.120
Bobby became cursed as a permanent Iceman, and then you
330
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:20.200
know Hank. You know, it's just a different version of Hank.
331
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.000
Instead of being a blue furry guy, he's a scaly
332
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.639
beast with cloven hoofs and he's lost all of his intelligence,
333
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.720
more childlike. But all the roots of all these versions
334
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.639
are in big eighties X Men stories. Mackie is probably
335
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.360
already working at Marvel in the late eighties, but as
336
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.840
a fan, I'm sure he was a big fan of
337
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:40.440
all that stuff.
338
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.360
Oh yeah, sure, what better way to kind of like, Okay,
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00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.159
this is the team, but it's not the team you're
340
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.879
used to, so already you're just like, oh, and the
341
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.639
shield files at the end are great, although one could
342
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.080
argue maybe you want to keep some of that and
343
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:55.759
I'm sure they kept some stuff off of there, but
344
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.519
maybe you would like to reveal some of that throughout
345
00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:00.919
the story and not all history away.
346
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.400
But but yeah, have twelve issues.
347
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:05.960
Good point, Yeah, fair point.
348
00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.359
You know we're going to this issue one that you're right,
349
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.960
you know, you want to set the stage for these characters,
350
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.079
and there's an argument to be had of like, well, okay,
351
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.920
they're strangely these new readers. We got to give them
352
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.079
as much history as we can, and what better way
353
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:19.599
to do it than at the end of the book,
354
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let's learn about each one of these guys and why
355
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.279
they are who they say they are. I love that
356
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.480
we got a Madeline Pryor in this We've got a
357
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.200
Goblin queen that is married.
358
00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:31.200
To this world's havoc.
359
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.079
These two have always seemed you know, we just talked
360
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.200
about I think that came up on our last podcast
361
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.160
we just recorded with Evan where there's these two have
362
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.680
been linked together in some way, and here they're definitely,
363
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:47.920
you know, they're they're they found each other, they found love,
364
00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.640
and they're also trying to leave this team. Do we
365
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:55.000
learn in here that Scotty is not exactly Havoc's son?
366
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:56.599
Do we learn that in this issue?
367
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.599
Yeah, there's a reference to that, is like her saying,
368
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:02.519
don't throw that in my face or something like that,
369
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:05.319
but they don't explain it. I'm sure it's explained in
370
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.440
later issues, but I don't recall what it was.
371
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.279
All right, And yeah, my other note here was what
372
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.279
is up with the Fallen He's weird and disturbing.
373
00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.599
Just his personality is way different than what.
374
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:23.039
We're used to with Warren Worthington, and he's not the stoic,
375
00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.079
rich guy that he usually is. This is a version
376
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.200
of him that is clearly damaged and just a little
377
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.119
bit out there, embracing who he is and what he
378
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.720
looks like. His personality to me, I think there's a
379
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.480
point where he's just kind of like hanging around on
380
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:38.920
the wall.
381
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.559
Yeah, it's really strange. I knew that we were.
382
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.039
Going to get this nice alternate take on what we
383
00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:48.559
were used to, and I wasn't disappointed. I mean, I
384
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.440
was like, Okay, well, you know we got Shield, who
385
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.400
is the villains here?
386
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.079
Okay, what other things?
387
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:55.799
What other you know, this is the Dark Universe Star
388
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.039
Trek style, what other fun stuff are we going to
389
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:58.559
run into?
390
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.599
Let's just see as pleased.
391
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.119
And I really am sorry that I didn't have the
392
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.440
chance to read this in the past. Because I was
393
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.480
a big X Men fan throughout like the late nineties.
394
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:10.839
I was picking up X books.
395
00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.759
I know I've talked about this before, but I was
396
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.920
picking up X books from my poolists. You know, when
397
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:17.680
I was going to college. I would come back home
398
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.200
and I would pick up everything. But I guess at
399
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.640
this point, maybe maybe I stopped because.
400
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.200
There were also a whole lot of X books to
401
00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:25.759
pick up.
402
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:29.240
Right Me and the wife got married in July of
403
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:32.480
ninety eight, so I'm certain I was probably like, Okay,
404
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.279
I've got to figure out where my money's going to
405
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:35.519
go now that we're on our own.
406
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:37.240
Even though we're together, I'm not going to have as
407
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:38.519
much cash flow.
408
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.920
So I had to stop pretty much buying things consistently.
409
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.440
This might have been something that even though I was
410
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.759
aware of it. I was cutting back, way back on stuff.
411
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.519
I remember picking up Cable throughout the mid to late
412
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.119
nineties and X Man. That was where I was going
413
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:56.519
with this. I really enjoyed X Men the Age of Apocalypse.
414
00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.400
Cable had come over to our world. So I'm a
415
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.079
fan of these types of stories. These are the types
416
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.720
of stories that talk to me because I like to
417
00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:06.240
learn about these alternate characters.
418
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:07.640
I love watching their adventures.
419
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.960
And so now instead of night Gray coming into the
420
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.480
six one six and trying to make it, now, we
421
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.440
got to have it going out of the six one
422
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.680
six and trying to make it, which I think is
423
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.119
still going to make for good story.
424
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:23.680
You're following this character that you're familiar with, and you're
425
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:28.279
discovering all this weirdness as at the same time as Alex,
426
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.720
it's like he's your POV character to this new world.
427
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.880
And as as the series goes on the second or
428
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:38.519
third issue, the Fantastic Four show up, Spider Man shows
429
00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:40.920
up pretty early. You see a lot of the other
430
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.680
Marvel staples and their versions in this universe.
431
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:46.799
Can't wait. That's exciting to me.
432
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.880
That's something that makes me want to continue to pick
433
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.319
this up. You know, I really enjoyed a recent title
434
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.200
called Exiles, which was kind of similar where they were
435
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:56.960
popping in and out of different universes.
436
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.680
Nicks Red XL's a handful of issues, but I never
437
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:03.359
followed it.
438
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.079
So there is a great arc in the fifties where
439
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.440
it's just called world Tour and they end up over
440
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:12.839
in like the Life Eld.
441
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:13.799
Hero was Reborn.
442
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:16.079
World or something.
443
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.319
They pop around and I dug it, but I don't
444
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:21.119
remember them heading over here at all, not that I
445
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.440
can recall anyway, And again, it's been a loss as
446
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:23.839
I've read them.
447
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.200
I'd love to see it. It'd be pretty cool. But anyway,
448
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:27.400
what are your thoughts on the issue? Man?
449
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:30.680
But yeah, I really like it it. Revisiting it for
450
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.920
the first time in a long while, I'm drawing right
451
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.839
back into the world and I'm looking forward to read
452
00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.880
more and seeing how it all worked out. We know
453
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.599
that Havoc does eventually get back to the six one six.
454
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:48.039
I like in the early conflict. We have these the
455
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.920
Mutant X universe's version of sentinels. You know, they're like chatty,
456
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.039
they have personalities. They also have like stole like heads,
457
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.519
like they're not as robotic like I guess they are robots,
458
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.480
but they are more human than the standard Sentinels.
459
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.759
For some reason, I thought of Death's Head for some reason, Ranton,
460
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.000
that's not what they're going for. I think your description
461
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.720
of sort of a skull looking as definitely better. But
462
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.680
that's what I was thinking of when I first saw
463
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.160
these guys. Yeah, some Death's Head two going on? There?
464
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.960
Does the other Havoc show up? Are there stories of
465
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.440
him in the regular Marvel universe? As I don't him
466
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.359
trying to figure.
467
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:30.440
So I think he just is dead and his body
468
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.559
is taken over by the Havoc as far as I know,
469
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.480
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we
470
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.200
find out later that he's comes back in some way.
471
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.680
But to mind, say he's hanging out with Dark Beast
472
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:43.559
over in the six six somewhere.
473
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.960
Brute might be my favorite of the redesigns. It's cool
474
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.000
that they use the mohawk storm, so I guess he
475
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.960
doesn't have strictly a mohawk, but it's evoking that eighties
476
00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:56.960
storm look.
477
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:58.160
Oh yeah, all it.
478
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.039
Looks pretty cool. But I think my favorite is the
479
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.240
E Street design with the hoofs and the scales and everything.
480
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.640
He's just really the most unique of all these redesigns.
481
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.880
I really like that one. It's cool that their headquarters
482
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.960
is a haunted castle. They make reference to the fact
483
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:16.119
that maybe Brood or somebody thought that it was haunted,
484
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.319
maybe the locals thought it was haunted or something. And
485
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.400
I believe that at some point in the story we
486
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.839
find out that that's not too far off. This is
487
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.039
the real horror version of the X Men, just a
488
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.440
darker version. There's a lot of horror elements stuff there.
489
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:30.880
That's so that makes sense.
490
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.200
That's right up Mackie's alley. If he's doing all this
491
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.440
ghost writer stuff. I'm sure that probably bled into what
492
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:38.440
he wanted to do next.
493
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.079
You got to give it to Mackie here. I wish
494
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:42.119
I would have looked it up.
495
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.160
Maybe he went to the office and said, guys, I
496
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.599
got a great idea for Havoc.
497
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.400
I'm sure that's probably I went twelve issues series of it.
498
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:50.720
Going into a different world, and they were like, yeah, sure,
499
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.680
as long as ye right right, And they're like, well,
500
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.000
as long as you can continue to do whatever other
501
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.920
book he was doing at the time for them, and
502
00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:00.240
he said yeah sure. So he gets handed a brand
503
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.519
new title. That's not too common really. I mean, we
504
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.359
got the same character in a brand new, totally different
505
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:08.920
world a lot of times for me and my experience,
506
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.720
But when I was walking into a comic store in
507
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.279
the nineties, if it wasn't already set in the universe
508
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:16.839
that I'm used to, it's kind of tough for me
509
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.960
to pick up that new issue. And I'm sure that
510
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.759
he probably looked at that as a pretty big challenge
511
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:24.680
for this book. He was given the reins to tell
512
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.640
a story in this world. I think that's you know,
513
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.559
I'm glad it became successful, because that's really cool. Would
514
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.160
you turn your twelve issue series into something more?
515
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:33.720
That's awesome?
516
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.279
Go ahead, and I would take almost complete creative freedom,
517
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:39.000
I would think, just because like, well, we're only going
518
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:40.319
to do this for a year. You can just do
519
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:44.279
whatever you want, right and it worked out anybody.
520
00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:45.920
Yeah, you can make anybody look bad.
521
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.359
Nick Furry is looking horrible in this already, So you
522
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.599
could just do whatever you want in this series because
523
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:54.720
it's all going to go away in twelve issues.
524
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:56.200
That's pretty cool.
525
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:58.920
Yeah, we just get a taste in this first issue
526
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:01.720
of some of the crazy set awaits us in this world,
527
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:05.559
which I love. I love Nick Fury in his villainous ways.
528
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.279
I'm looking at a panel right now. He may possibly
529
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.720
be pointing to dumb Dumb Dugan. I don't know if
530
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:11.160
that's ax.
531
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:15.880
Yeah, oh he does. He does dumb Dumb as simple
532
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:17.000
mutant tactical squad.
533
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:20.400
Now. I think dumb Dumb was probably one of the
534
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.680
ones that I learned from either. You know, I never
535
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.480
read anything with him in it, except for probably a
536
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.960
Marvel official Handbooks to the Marvel Universe.
537
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.920
That was probably where he's like, oh, what is this guy?
538
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.319
Who is this guy? Oh? Okay with the weird hat,
539
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:35.160
all right, I got it.
540
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.119
The last thing I really had as far as my notes,
541
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.880
This is the original attack on Liberty Island that Brian
542
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:44.000
Singer would lift for the X Men movie a few
543
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.200
years later. I don't know that that inspired, but hey,
544
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.200
you know, why not, we can do it and drag
545
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.720
his name, fine with me. Yeah, it was cool also
546
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:57.920
to have Elektra in there. When when they first set
547
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.279
her nanny or Scotty's nanny, I assumed it was going
548
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:04.880
to be Agatha Harkness because I believe she was Franklin's
549
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:06.799
nanny at one point. Maybe that's why I was thinking
550
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.799
that when I got to where it's allegedly, oh yeah,
551
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.400
Electra was the nanny for Scotty and then also young Scotty.
552
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:16.599
Scotty does know, he is well aware Alex is not
553
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.599
his real bad There was a reference to Madaline saying
554
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.160
don't bring that up, or like maybe there's some confusion
555
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.039
about who his parent it is. But the point is
556
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.160
that Scotty knows this is not the Alex that he's
557
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:29.920
familiar with, con sense that he's not the same guy.
558
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.279
Do you recall any of the issues that you remember
559
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.079
reading his Scotty poward in any way?
560
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.519
I would assume so, but I don't remember specifically.
561
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.200
Yeah, all right, I was just curious, you know, he's
562
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:43.799
hanging out with the power pack or something.
563
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.839
Yeah, a nice way of setting things up for the
564
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.480
future here.
565
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.319
Okay, well let's pick a panel here. I'll let you
566
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.440
go first, because you most likely did your homework. I'll
567
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.680
kind of bounce off of that.
568
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.400
I got page nineteen. This is kind of a cheat
569
00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.599
because it's a splash page, but it's a whole bunch
570
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.640
of everything images. It's basically the complete history of the
571
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.799
Mute Nicks X Men where it shows him I see
572
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.559
Marvel Woman is because Marvel Girl was the original Jeene
573
00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.079
Gray code name, and then I guess this version became
574
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.279
Marvel Woman when she got older. I don't know if
575
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:18.839
that ever happened a Gene, but we kind of see
576
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:24.000
Dracula digging into to Storm, we see Loki, and we
577
00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:27.200
see Apocalypse harassing the fall In and changing him. So
578
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.200
it's a lot of cool stuff and pretty Brady does
579
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.640
a good job of combining it all into one fluid image.
580
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:34.640
Yeah, that's a good pick man. I mean you're getting
581
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:35.759
a lot of history.
582
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.799
I love these pieces where you bring in character after
583
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.119
character and version of different characters and trying to fit
584
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:44.400
everything on one page.
585
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:45.599
We got the one moment.
586
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:49.240
Where Auroro gets bit by Dracula and it's at the
587
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:51.240
original X Men as we see him.
588
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:54.039
It's real good. I am going to go with.
589
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:59.000
The Havoc panel where he is screaming not this time
590
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.640
and they're there are like little circles. Havoc was always
591
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.000
such an interesting character to me because I never could
592
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.200
tell how in the world or what in the world
593
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.920
his power set was other than he could just blast stuff.
594
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.720
But I think when I ended up learning later.
595
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.559
It's like plasma blasts if I remember correct or something
596
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:17.920
along those lines.
597
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.839
Superheated plasma or something like that.
598
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.319
Right that panel right there, it's where he's getting ready
599
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:24.839
to unleash on a sentinel.
600
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:26.799
It's pretty sick because he's just.
601
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.319
Screaming not this time, and he's got all this power
602
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.480
and all this crackle once again, just emanating around him.
603
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.599
It looks really really cool.
604
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.200
A minor complaint. I'm reading this on Marvel's app. The
605
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:42.440
cover is just the stand, which is a cool tagline
606
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.680
of Fear Him, Fear for Him. It's a gatefold cover
607
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:49.559
where if you had the actual issue, the front cover
608
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.559
and the back cover make one image, and on the
609
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:54.759
app you only get the front cover.
610
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.880
It doesn't oh, it doesn't give me the gatefolder right wow.
611
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.440
Which, and there's also something weird going on in the
612
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:05.240
app where the pages are clearly just scans of an
613
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.240
actual comic. You can see the grain and stuff. I
614
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:11.799
loved ahead issue too, and it looked completely digitized, clean
615
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.279
and crisp and everything. But that first issue it's like
616
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.279
they lost the original art or something and weren't able
617
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.759
to you know, or maybe those files were corrupted or something.
618
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.079
They couldn't reproduce that digitally, so they just had to
619
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:25.240
do copy scans like you would find on line or whatever.
620
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.240
But yeah, that's a.
621
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.839
I was gonna say, there's an alternate cover. I don't
622
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:33.680
know if it's in there or not, but I'll show
623
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:33.960
you this.
624
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.359
I'll send it to you. Have you ever seen this cover?
625
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:42.119
Not until I was looking for an image a minute ago. Yeah,
626
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:43.319
I guess that's a variant.
627
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:45.799
I'm pretty sure that I have this the one that
628
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.880
you sent. That's the one that I ended up with,
629
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.160
you know this one? Yeah, this is so to describe
630
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.519
to our listeners. It's just Havic's face and his chest
631
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.960
and it's a pretty big close up on him, read
632
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.720
background and of course the yellow circles. All right, well,
633
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.440
why don't you let the people know, let's get into plugs.
634
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.680
You tell them all about small screeners and tell them
635
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.759
all about Because Movies.
636
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:13.319
Yeah. I got a couple other podcasts I do with
637
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.720
my buddy AJ where we talk about movies, one of
638
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:18.000
small Screeners where we talk about director video and made
639
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.839
for TV movies. And we've got one called Because Movies
640
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.640
where we kind of cover different topics and bit non
641
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:26.920
kind of a hiatus for both of those recently due
642
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.799
to personal stuff, but you can find on the Because
643
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.799
Movies feed. Late last year we did for the twenty
644
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:35.480
fifth anniversary of ninety nine, wed the Best Movies of
645
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.039
nineteen ninety nine, and we also did a Horror Hall
646
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.839
of Fame in October where we picked out some of
647
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.880
our favorite movies, directors, actors, and actresses of the horror
648
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.880
genre and made the inaugural class of the Hall of
649
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.039
Fame in the Horror Genre on that episode. So you
650
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.640
can check those out at the Because Movies podcast feed.
651
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.720
I love it, love it, love it. Well.
652
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:59.119
Yeah, as far as source material goes unspoken issues, you
653
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.480
can find the UNSMA Issues podcast on the Source Material
654
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:06.440
Comics feed where we have all sorts of episodes, well
655
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.839
over one hundred episodes right now, and we are chugging along.
656
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.599
So if you want to go back at the archives
657
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:14.839
and listen to us talk about nineties comics, you should
658
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:17.000
be able to find that pretty easily. Just find the
659
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.400
Source Material Comics feed and then filter out Unspoken Issues.
660
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:21.720
We talk nineties comics.
661
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.880
Source material, that's right, the Source Material Comics podcast. We
662
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.279
have all sorts of discussions right now. Myself and Mark
663
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:34.200
Radlich are jumping into the world of Dan Slot's she Hulk.
664
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.920
We have covered the two thousand and four series one
665
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:39.200
through six, and then seven through twelve, and then the
666
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.559
first five issues of the two thousand and five series.
667
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:43.400
A lot of fun, a lot of good discussion over
668
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:45.519
there on that, and then of course Snap material where
669
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:46.839
me and Evian Bevins get together and.
670
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:48.039
Talk about Marvel Snap.
671
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:51.519
We drop about four twenty minute episodes each month talking
672
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.680
about previous season, the upcoming season, and if you dig
673
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.920
playing Marvel Snap you can listen to me and Evan
674
00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:59.640
Bevans get a lot of things wrong, but have a
675
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.079
lot of fun undorn it, so it's a good time
676
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:05.000
all around. That being said, we are getting out of here.
677
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:08.839
That over there is Chris Armstrong. I am Jesse Starcher.
678
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:10.920
We will be talking to you soon. Have a good
679
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.559
one bye bye.
680
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.359
Thanks for joining us.
681
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.559
Unspoken Issues is part of the Unspokendecade dot com, the
682
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.920
home for nineties comics blogs and podcasts.
683
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.480
Unspoken Issues also has a Facebook group you can join
684
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:26.480
if you are interested.
685
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:30.440
Just search the Unspoken Issues podcast and request to join.
686
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.480
All of this would not be possible without W two
687
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.200
mnet dot com so make sure to seek them out
688
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.319
for more podcasts.
689
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.400
If you enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free
690
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:42.759
to share, and we look forward to entertaining you again
691
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:43.119
soon