Massimo Rigotti: Never a drink, just a kid who learned to disappear into being useful. Today you'll learn the exact survival skill that's quietly running your adult life, and the first move to trade performing for real self-trust. My guest, Lolita Guarin wrote the book Stress Management for Adult Children of Alcoholics. She believes achievement can be just as addictive as the bottle it grew up next to.
Lolita Guarin: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.
Massimo Rigotti: yes, absolutely. So Lolita, you have said the same skill that gets a kid through a house with addiction also becomes the very thing that quietly burns the adult out. And I'm wondering, could you name that skill in one sentence that tells us the first place someone can catch themselves doing it this week?
Lolita Guarin: Constantly needing to produce.
Massimo Rigotti: I appreciate that. And I think that a lot of us can really relate to that. So you, of course, took this and you built something that you call the calm process, which I believe is control, accept, limit, and multiply. So, in plain terms, could you walk us through the first letter, control? How does someone actually tell the difference between what is theirs to carry and what they have? To learn to grab
Lolita Guarin: So for those who are listening in, I hope there are plenty who's listening in right now because you know I'm a stress management coach among other things. But just pick now some situation in your life that you can think about when I'm walking you through this process so you'll understand how that works. So pick a situation and we think about the letter C and that is the control. And control is about who is really controlling the situation. And asking yourself, can you control it? Because, for example, if you are stuck in traffic, what is that exactly you can control? Or we already know we cannot control the people. We cannot control the emotions. Well no we should. No that's called manipulation. So you really need to identify the situation that you are in, what can you control and what you cannot? Because a lot of stress that really comes from us trying to do something that we cannot even change. So whatever comes to economy, politics, other people, you need to come to the conclusion that okay, now the situation I can't change. I can't for example, the traffic, you know, second traffic, okay, I cannot change that. But then you know. You can think about that, well, I just identified that I cannot change that situation. And it may feel hopeless. It's like, okay, well that's that's it. That this is the end. And how is that helping me now, right? That I just made myself more depressed because I cannot change anything. No, no, hold on. The one person that you still can control is you and your attitude towards it and your action and your reaction and your emotions about the situation.
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, exactly.
Lolita Guarin: And then we move to the letter A, which is appreciation or acceptance. And it's very important to see the silver lining in the situation, even it looks like there is none. You know, and I had clients who will come to me and they say, Are you you telling me I now I need to be happy about that I have cancer? Like that's there's just no way. How is this good situation? But there are plenty of stories that even in the very daunting situations in life or looks like there's so much pain and suffering, we learn not only how to survive through it, but we also learn more about ourselves. And how can you change something that you don't know exists? So, you know, you cannot create a sculpture without getting your hands in a clay and dirty, right?
Massimo Rigotti: Mm-hmm.
Lolita Guarin: So you need to get to the point of thinking, okay, this is what it is. And now when you know, what is it you're gonna do next? And that's how we move to the letter L and And that is the key in the whole calm process on any situation for that matter. Is I always invite those who go into the process to really sit down and write it down. That's you know always works when you really see it on a piece of paper. What are your actions? about the situation right now. What is that that you're doing? And you know, not doing something about that, that is also doing. You're ignoring the situation. You you're pushing yourself away from it because you're afraid. This totally makes sense. So then when you write it down, all of the things that you are doing, and I know, I know, it is like no way to write it down every single thing, right? You're gonna forget something.
Massimo Rigotti: Ha ha ha ha.
Lolita Guarin: And that's why I also recommend to have a conversation with people in your life who you trust, okay? Go to those good friends. Don't go to your mother in law if you know that she's gonna put you down. But ask them, you can say, you know what, I'm working, you know, here's this thing I'm working on, and what do you think I'm doing about that? Because for example, I had a client and she wanted to, you know, let go of some weight and I asked her to do this exercise, to go to the people that you know she trusts the most to be vulnerable and she knows they will support her, and ask what is that she's doing about that particular issue. And she told me later that she was so surprised. She didn't realize that going and having coffee in the coffee shop that apparently has sugar in it. It's actually not really helping her.
Massimo Rigotti: No.
Lolita Guarin: But but she didn't see that. So that's why I invite you to really think about what is that you're doing about the situation, but also ask those other people around you that they may point it out the things that you're not really seeing that you're actually doing. And then the real work begins. So L and I'm so happy that you said the L stands for limiting. So how is that we are going to change the situation if we will continue doing the same thing. It's called madness, right? And that is where so much of courage needed because we can let go or change something if we believe it doesn't serve us anymore. If we believe it serves us, we're gonna stay with that. Even if it's hurting us. So if you are, let's say, in a situation where let's say you're in the workplace and you have a boss that isn't mistreating you and it's really stressing you out. You don't wanna be there anymore, but you're not looking for another job. How are you going to change that situation? But then you need to ask yourself. Why are you still staying the same situation? Because the question that all my clients just hate when I'm asking them is how is this serving you?
Massimo Rigotti: Well let me ask you a question that's like kind of wrapped up in that then. So for someone who's built their entire identity over not dropping the ball and like always having it together, I mean, what does it look like in real life when, you're not really willing to change, you're afraid to limit what's draining you? how do you do that without feeling like you're giving up?
Lolita Guarin: You ni we need to ask ourselves why we keep on doing the same thing that we're doing. Why? And that is, I believe, comes from the loyalty. As you know, we are human beings. I mean, so far last time I looked at the mirror, I looked like a human being. We need to belong in a group. So, you know, we humans and we already come with the trauma and needing to depend on other people from the one the moment we were born. So we need to belong to the tribe. And behave and follow the rules and be pleasing to the authority in order to survive. So if let's say you are continuously doing the same trait in that stressful situation, because you are afraid to break the loyalty to the authority where you learn that that is very valuable, it deep down is threatening your your survival. That's why you You cannot change.
Massimo Rigotti: So then as you limit these things, you're kind of cutting back all of the things that you're trying to do and getting down to the things that really only truly matter. I guess that must be where you look at these things that matter and then that's the last letter, multiply. Is it ev is
Lolita Guarin: There's
Massimo Rigotti: that right?
Lolita Guarin: yes, but there's one more thing that we need to the the how to let go of the fear of change is when you already identify that you are doing something because you're keeping the loyalty to your all identity, to your all authorities. And most of the time we we we see ourselves the way somebody told us how we are. So we need to take down the authorities from the pedestals.
Massimo Rigotti: Okay.
Lolita Guarin: And understand that, well, let's just say your mother told you that you're always late, so now you think, my gosh, I'm always late. But you we also need to remember that those authorities are also people. They also had parents, they also have inner child, they also have their own traumas. We are all just children from generation to generation. Well, we're all trying to do our best. So when we take down the authorities from the pedestals and we're looking at someone else that also has aspirations and fears and and you know the same things that we struggle every single day. And maybe they were even wrong. Can you believe it? They may be wrong.
Massimo Rigotti: Oftentimes they are wrong and we mol we end up doing those things our entire life. We embrace them because we were told that the these these are the things and so you do those things. Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: And you see, and if we would not be ever questioning authorities and never changing, mind you, we'll be still living in caves.
Massimo Rigotti: True.
Lolita Guarin: So somebody did it, somebody questioned the authority, and so you can do the same. And that's why we go to the letter of also identified what we do well. Because is multiply something that already works. So you identify from that list that you wrote from your actions, you're like, okay, this is limiting. I need to stop doing this. I need to change this. I need to ask for help for this. I need to delegate this thing, this one. I totally need to come just stop doing it. And then you really need to acknowledge of the things that are working for you in your favor. Because there's so many things that, you know, out of our survival and our fear, we pay so much attention to things that don't work. Naturally, because we want to survive. But also survival is not only from looking for predators, but also from eating, right?
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: Or sleeping, you know, or mingling with your friends. That's also a humongous the big part of your life that also contributes to your survival. So how about we're gonna pay attention to more things that actually work in your situation? And know I have some clients that they say, no, nothing's working. I am not I'm I'm messing all this up. That's okay. If you don't want to look at a specific situation, what you're doing well, then look what you do well in your own life. Maybe you have a personality trait that you don't even count that is anything special. Because you know when we're doing something that we're naturally good at. We don't take credit for this. Because in our society, we've been told that anything of value has to be difficult to achieve. You have to work for it. So that's again, here comes your friends and those that you have trust for them to tell you what you do. I bet when they will give you the insight, what you do that is not helping you the situation, they also will tell you what you do well in the situation or you as a person. mm managing well or like just you being maybe you know you are finding everything positive in the situation or you are a great cook or you are great friend or you're always there when somebody needs you. Look at those things that come to you naturally and celebrate them. And why it's also important to have this at the last part of the calm process. Is because when you start really analyzing and and working with yourself in that some stressful situation, it can be very daunting of even going through the process when we're starting with the letter C when we're talking about can you control what you cannot control? And that can be very depressing, or like, my gosh, I cannot control this. Why? So that's why we need to finish this process with inspiring ourselves of telling, you know what, I still can do this. And also I all recommend my clients to write another list of the things that you went through the situation in your life that look like is not gonna go well. Or maybe there was some situation that you know, let's say you couldn't get the job, but then later you find out the company went bankrupt. So kinda it worked in your favor. So when we compile things like this and we're paying attention and we celebrate them, it's giving us more trust in ourselves. That we can handle it. And also, our mind loves continuously regurgitating the same things. So, how about we're not gonna look at the negative things, but we also be fear and start thinking about the positive things as well. And also, what they love about the calm process is when you go through the whole process, just doing that is already you telling yourself that you're not abandoning yourself. And you know, you know what they say, well. It doesn't matter where you go, you take yourself with you. So how can you abandon yourself? But you abandoning yourself when you're not honoring your own needs. Because you've been told that, well, because you belong to this group, you need to do the rules and regulations in order to survive. So honoring your needs is having that break. not wearing the shoes that are too tight for you, you know. Small things that start in everyday life. But what does that mean? That's mean that you are not abandoning yourself now and no matter what will happen in the future, you will not abandon yourself as well. You're building that trust in your own abilities. So then you you know, my goal is that whatever you do this process, by doing it, you're already showing that you want the things to change. And many times, you know, and I get from clients like, you know, if I knew what to do and multiplying my what I'm doing great, I will not be in this situation and I'm But you know, we live in this society now that we are open to multiple sources of help. I mean now we can talk with somebody across the world, we can have video calls like we have right now. We can always look for help. And you own this help to yourself because if you're not gonna help yourself, you will not be able to help those that you love.
Massimo Rigotti: I'm very curious though. I mean, you created this process. it's very unique and I like how it's structured. But when you began this as someone who is a workaholic, how did you keep yourself from falling back into the trap to multiply this incredible workload that you were capable of instead of, really keeping yourself tied to that limit? how did you navigate that?
Lolita Guarin: So the whole change of my lifestyle started when, you know, for those who are listening and they're probably wondering where this my accent is from.
Massimo Rigotti: Ha ha ha.
Lolita Guarin: I was born in Lithuania and I came to US twenty-six years ago. and I came as an immigrant where had this dream of finding the you know the the the tree that produces dollars, you just come and pluck it, right? And you put it in your pocket.
Massimo Rigotti: The American dream, that's what it is, isn't it?
Lolita Guarin: American dream, you know. Yeah, that the whole forest of apparently that doesn't exist. So, you know, all the jokes aside, I I I knew I have to work hard to achieve my dream. But to be honest, it doesn't matter where you live, it doesn't matter what language you speak. we all have the same goals, aspirations, values. You know, we all want to do something with love, we want to have a roof, you know, and sleep with someone and wake up with someone we love and hug friends and travel and enjoy our life. This is like universal, doesn't matter where you live. And because I grew up with my father being alcoholic, I was very people pleasing. I was afraid to say no. because again, if I'm not gonna please someone, then I'll die. That that's how brain works. and I also was very extra hard on me know being people pleaser with work co-workers and with the bosses and work whatever. Hours always available. There's no time to take care of yourself. and I get to the point that my body said, No, like you cannot do this anymore. I end up in the emergency room, and the doctor said, Good that you came today because you have not survived till tomorrow. it really messed up my hormones. Stress messed up hormones, and any woman listening knows hormones need to be your friend in order to survive. Just plainly said, and That was my really big wake-up call when I was like, okay, I need to start doing something different. But I love how you pointed out about, okay, you're coming with this trauma, and my idea is to go, go, go. I was not really seen and appreciated for who I was without doing anything. So that's mean I am only seen when I'm producing. And if I stop producing, hence I'm gonna die. But then wait, I'm already dying from producing.
Massimo Rigotti: Yes.
Lolita Guarin: So I really start us looking back and and asking myself, is it really working? And you know, many times I hear people wait until they in the hospital already dying, and then they say, now I need to change. And that's what I tell my clients, you know, when somebody comes and say, Well, my my you know, my doctor told me I need to manage my stress and here I am, or like my you know, my my husband said, I need to have a coaching client. I'm like, Okay. and with all of those highly achievers, you know, for those who pushing us to produce, I always have a one question. And when you know they always say, okay, what do we mean to do? Because remember the doers. We
Massimo Rigotti: Yes.
Lolita Guarin: the doers were supposed to do something about it, right? So there's no way I'm gonna tell you do nothing. You're like, well what you mean? I'm gonna die. So I have to give them something to do, right? To do something. And this is how I know and now who's listening in, I want you now to listen to your body and how that makes you feel and what thoughts you get when I'm asking you this one question. I mean not the question, but I'm telling you what you need to do is you set an alarm on your phone. Can you believe you're gonna use your phone for something good today? and you put ring maybe every two hours or every hour, whatever you you like. Pick pick your time. And then whatever rings, you stop doing whatever you're doing. Of course if it's safe for you to do. Don't don't operate heavy machinery and then stop doing. And just close your eyes, have some water, just relax for one minute, one minute. And now when you tell this to yourself, how your body reacted. Or you thought to
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: yourself, or you thought to yourself, What? Stupid one minute. that's ridiculous. One minute is not gonna change my life. Or
Massimo Rigotti: It will.
Lolita Guarin: or you said, I don't have time for that. Because self love and anything that you give yourself is seen as a bad thing. How dare you to be selfish to help yourself? Because we've been trained to do that. That's just humankind from generations and generations. That's not only our parents. This is generational for thousands of years. If you're not producing, you'll die. But I always tell those who come to me and they say, you know, and they say, Okay, can you do this one little thing? Can you set your alarm and have this one minute and do absolutely nothing? And one day tell me that, Are you kidding me? I don't have time for this, for stupid games like this. And I I'm like, Okay, you even don't have a minute. Because, you know, they're running multiple businesses, they're dealing with their kids, they they have to deal with their aging parents and all of this all of the stuff that we need to do. And then I asked them so okay, who's going to take care of all of those businesses and those kids of those parents when you're in the hospital? So start doing this now because when you take care of yourself, then you can take care of everybody else. And we need to start this martyrdom of I'm just gonna give, give, give, and then the statue will be built for me.
Massimo Rigotti: Well, I'm I'm curious, you just talked about people pleasing and that being like really your core challenge. you said it several times. So for a lot of the listeners who are out there protecting their own sobriety, what do you want a grown child of an alcoholic to understand about their own risk of addiction, even if they have never touched a drink themselves?
Lolita Guarin: nobody will die if you say no. Start small. It's gonna be very, very scary. And you know, here, I don't know where you all listeners are, but usually in the malls here, there's some salespeople standing around and they're trying to sell you something, you know, they they push you. So how about you start as exercise? You just go to the place where they have plenty of salespeople and when they try to push you something to buy, you just say no. And just walk around, you say no, no, thank you, no, thank you. And you will see that nobody's gonna die just because you said no. And the moment you start building this, and you then you'll be honest with yourself, and you say no, and you have boundaries with other people, it's it works miraculously, and I love this because I went through the same thing. I realized that wow, the more I say no, the more I'm being respected, the more I've I've seen as authentic, not someone that's going to be just a saying yes and then not delivering. Someone that I can be trusted. But also I realized that the more I said no, the more I built the boundaries and more loved myself more. I was able to give more. but also I was building the trust in myself that I can do more things, not only that has to do with boundaries, but other things in my life as well.
Massimo Rigotti: So what's one thing that you think that adult children of alcoholics get wrong about their own resilience? there has to be some common thread that you tend to see here.
Lolita Guarin: If you stop performing, the wall will not fall apart. That's why even stopping and doing nothing for five minutes, it looks ridiculous.
Massimo Rigotti: Lolita, the sober method begins with stoic and getting radically honest about what is actually within your control, which is almost exactly like your own control. C and the calm process, from there, the sober method moves to observe, which is naming what is actually happening without judgment or spin. And then that is exactly where your work lives. And for a high achiever, the stakes are not abstract. And burn out driven mistakes will obviously cost you reputation and promotions. And, it's just things that will erode your relationships at home. And underneath is that fear of losing the one identity, being capable. And that got you everything you have. So my question for you is for the listener who's built their entire career on never needing anything from anyone. How does naming that pattern, instead of just managing the stress it causes, change what happens next for them?
Lolita Guarin: So for those who have children, I will ask them to ask themselves, would I be okay if my child will have their own com company, their own family, their own kids, and will never ask for help, but they take everything on them, how they will make me feel. Because you know, we teach other people around us how we live by example. And it's not only about you that any change that happens. Is also about your kids that you show by example. The same as we learned how to be resilient, we probably learned that from someone else. And definitely that has to do, you know, when I came from you know an environment where my dad was alcoholic, I learned that I cannot trust anyone. So it's very important to start building that trust and pointed out that there are plenty things in your life that you delegated or you asked for help, which We did. There's no way that we went all our lives without asking for anyone's help. And Bill and pointed out that there was trust and we we should let go because when we are capable and we're not stressed out, we're not burned out, then we can be more in other people's lives and feel full and happy and healthy.
Massimo Rigotti: Well, everyone, before we go, here is your sober move this week, an observe and restore step inspired by Lolita. Every time you catch yourself saying yes when you meant no or picking up one more task nobody actually asked you to carry, I want you to stop and observe it without judgment. Just write down what happened and what you told yourself in that moment. And then I want you to run Lolita's control audit. Ask yourself honestly, is this mine to carry, or did I just grab it? And if it's not yours. Then that's your limit. One boundary said once out loud before Sunday. Last, restore on purpose. I want you to pick one thing that actually refills you, not one more task, and then multiply it. Do it twice this week instead of zero times and journal what shifts for you. This is the difference between managing your stress and finally trusting yourself. Now, Lolita, we have a tradition on this podcast where each guest answers a question left by my last guest. Brian Blackmon left you this question. What is going to keep you from putting that one foot in front of the other to change your life for the best?
Lolita Guarin: 'Cause I don't want to be dying and looking back and say, you know what, I shoulda, coulda, woulda, but I didn't.
Massimo Rigotti: So I have to ask you, do you have a question you'd like to leave my next guest?
Lolita Guarin: Yes, I would like to ask them what age they would like to live in and why.
Massimo Rigotti: Ooh, that's that's a good one. I can't wait to hear the answer to that. to everyone listening, I want you to keep observing and journaling your own behaviors daily. My new book, Digital Sober Method, is available now anywhere books are sold. If putting down your phone is the fight you're in, this is your solution. I'm Massimo Rigotti This is the Sober Method Podcast. Please follow, like, subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with anyone who needs to hear it. Remember, your future is sober.
Lolita Guarin: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.
Massimo Rigotti: yes, absolutely. So Lolita, you have said the same skill that gets a kid through a house with addiction also becomes the very thing that quietly burns the adult out. And I'm wondering, could you name that skill in one sentence that tells us the first place someone can catch themselves doing it this week?
Lolita Guarin: Constantly needing to produce.
Massimo Rigotti: I appreciate that. And I think that a lot of us can really relate to that. So you, of course, took this and you built something that you call the calm process, which I believe is control, accept, limit, and multiply. So, in plain terms, could you walk us through the first letter, control? How does someone actually tell the difference between what is theirs to carry and what they have? To learn to grab
Lolita Guarin: So for those who are listening in, I hope there are plenty who's listening in right now because you know I'm a stress management coach among other things. But just pick now some situation in your life that you can think about when I'm walking you through this process so you'll understand how that works. So pick a situation and we think about the letter C and that is the control. And control is about who is really controlling the situation. And asking yourself, can you control it? Because, for example, if you are stuck in traffic, what is that exactly you can control? Or we already know we cannot control the people. We cannot control the emotions. Well no we should. No that's called manipulation. So you really need to identify the situation that you are in, what can you control and what you cannot? Because a lot of stress that really comes from us trying to do something that we cannot even change. So whatever comes to economy, politics, other people, you need to come to the conclusion that okay, now the situation I can't change. I can't for example, the traffic, you know, second traffic, okay, I cannot change that. But then you know. You can think about that, well, I just identified that I cannot change that situation. And it may feel hopeless. It's like, okay, well that's that's it. That this is the end. And how is that helping me now, right? That I just made myself more depressed because I cannot change anything. No, no, hold on. The one person that you still can control is you and your attitude towards it and your action and your reaction and your emotions about the situation.
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, exactly.
Lolita Guarin: And then we move to the letter A, which is appreciation or acceptance. And it's very important to see the silver lining in the situation, even it looks like there is none. You know, and I had clients who will come to me and they say, Are you you telling me I now I need to be happy about that I have cancer? Like that's there's just no way. How is this good situation? But there are plenty of stories that even in the very daunting situations in life or looks like there's so much pain and suffering, we learn not only how to survive through it, but we also learn more about ourselves. And how can you change something that you don't know exists? So, you know, you cannot create a sculpture without getting your hands in a clay and dirty, right?
Massimo Rigotti: Mm-hmm.
Lolita Guarin: So you need to get to the point of thinking, okay, this is what it is. And now when you know, what is it you're gonna do next? And that's how we move to the letter L and And that is the key in the whole calm process on any situation for that matter. Is I always invite those who go into the process to really sit down and write it down. That's you know always works when you really see it on a piece of paper. What are your actions? about the situation right now. What is that that you're doing? And you know, not doing something about that, that is also doing. You're ignoring the situation. You you're pushing yourself away from it because you're afraid. This totally makes sense. So then when you write it down, all of the things that you are doing, and I know, I know, it is like no way to write it down every single thing, right? You're gonna forget something.
Massimo Rigotti: Ha ha ha ha.
Lolita Guarin: And that's why I also recommend to have a conversation with people in your life who you trust, okay? Go to those good friends. Don't go to your mother in law if you know that she's gonna put you down. But ask them, you can say, you know what, I'm working, you know, here's this thing I'm working on, and what do you think I'm doing about that? Because for example, I had a client and she wanted to, you know, let go of some weight and I asked her to do this exercise, to go to the people that you know she trusts the most to be vulnerable and she knows they will support her, and ask what is that she's doing about that particular issue. And she told me later that she was so surprised. She didn't realize that going and having coffee in the coffee shop that apparently has sugar in it. It's actually not really helping her.
Massimo Rigotti: No.
Lolita Guarin: But but she didn't see that. So that's why I invite you to really think about what is that you're doing about the situation, but also ask those other people around you that they may point it out the things that you're not really seeing that you're actually doing. And then the real work begins. So L and I'm so happy that you said the L stands for limiting. So how is that we are going to change the situation if we will continue doing the same thing. It's called madness, right? And that is where so much of courage needed because we can let go or change something if we believe it doesn't serve us anymore. If we believe it serves us, we're gonna stay with that. Even if it's hurting us. So if you are, let's say, in a situation where let's say you're in the workplace and you have a boss that isn't mistreating you and it's really stressing you out. You don't wanna be there anymore, but you're not looking for another job. How are you going to change that situation? But then you need to ask yourself. Why are you still staying the same situation? Because the question that all my clients just hate when I'm asking them is how is this serving you?
Massimo Rigotti: Well let me ask you a question that's like kind of wrapped up in that then. So for someone who's built their entire identity over not dropping the ball and like always having it together, I mean, what does it look like in real life when, you're not really willing to change, you're afraid to limit what's draining you? how do you do that without feeling like you're giving up?
Lolita Guarin: You ni we need to ask ourselves why we keep on doing the same thing that we're doing. Why? And that is, I believe, comes from the loyalty. As you know, we are human beings. I mean, so far last time I looked at the mirror, I looked like a human being. We need to belong in a group. So, you know, we humans and we already come with the trauma and needing to depend on other people from the one the moment we were born. So we need to belong to the tribe. And behave and follow the rules and be pleasing to the authority in order to survive. So if let's say you are continuously doing the same trait in that stressful situation, because you are afraid to break the loyalty to the authority where you learn that that is very valuable, it deep down is threatening your your survival. That's why you You cannot change.
Massimo Rigotti: So then as you limit these things, you're kind of cutting back all of the things that you're trying to do and getting down to the things that really only truly matter. I guess that must be where you look at these things that matter and then that's the last letter, multiply. Is it ev is
Lolita Guarin: There's
Massimo Rigotti: that right?
Lolita Guarin: yes, but there's one more thing that we need to the the how to let go of the fear of change is when you already identify that you are doing something because you're keeping the loyalty to your all identity, to your all authorities. And most of the time we we we see ourselves the way somebody told us how we are. So we need to take down the authorities from the pedestals.
Massimo Rigotti: Okay.
Lolita Guarin: And understand that, well, let's just say your mother told you that you're always late, so now you think, my gosh, I'm always late. But you we also need to remember that those authorities are also people. They also had parents, they also have inner child, they also have their own traumas. We are all just children from generation to generation. Well, we're all trying to do our best. So when we take down the authorities from the pedestals and we're looking at someone else that also has aspirations and fears and and you know the same things that we struggle every single day. And maybe they were even wrong. Can you believe it? They may be wrong.
Massimo Rigotti: Oftentimes they are wrong and we mol we end up doing those things our entire life. We embrace them because we were told that the these these are the things and so you do those things. Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: And you see, and if we would not be ever questioning authorities and never changing, mind you, we'll be still living in caves.
Massimo Rigotti: True.
Lolita Guarin: So somebody did it, somebody questioned the authority, and so you can do the same. And that's why we go to the letter of also identified what we do well. Because is multiply something that already works. So you identify from that list that you wrote from your actions, you're like, okay, this is limiting. I need to stop doing this. I need to change this. I need to ask for help for this. I need to delegate this thing, this one. I totally need to come just stop doing it. And then you really need to acknowledge of the things that are working for you in your favor. Because there's so many things that, you know, out of our survival and our fear, we pay so much attention to things that don't work. Naturally, because we want to survive. But also survival is not only from looking for predators, but also from eating, right?
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: Or sleeping, you know, or mingling with your friends. That's also a humongous the big part of your life that also contributes to your survival. So how about we're gonna pay attention to more things that actually work in your situation? And know I have some clients that they say, no, nothing's working. I am not I'm I'm messing all this up. That's okay. If you don't want to look at a specific situation, what you're doing well, then look what you do well in your own life. Maybe you have a personality trait that you don't even count that is anything special. Because you know when we're doing something that we're naturally good at. We don't take credit for this. Because in our society, we've been told that anything of value has to be difficult to achieve. You have to work for it. So that's again, here comes your friends and those that you have trust for them to tell you what you do. I bet when they will give you the insight, what you do that is not helping you the situation, they also will tell you what you do well in the situation or you as a person. mm managing well or like just you being maybe you know you are finding everything positive in the situation or you are a great cook or you are great friend or you're always there when somebody needs you. Look at those things that come to you naturally and celebrate them. And why it's also important to have this at the last part of the calm process. Is because when you start really analyzing and and working with yourself in that some stressful situation, it can be very daunting of even going through the process when we're starting with the letter C when we're talking about can you control what you cannot control? And that can be very depressing, or like, my gosh, I cannot control this. Why? So that's why we need to finish this process with inspiring ourselves of telling, you know what, I still can do this. And also I all recommend my clients to write another list of the things that you went through the situation in your life that look like is not gonna go well. Or maybe there was some situation that you know, let's say you couldn't get the job, but then later you find out the company went bankrupt. So kinda it worked in your favor. So when we compile things like this and we're paying attention and we celebrate them, it's giving us more trust in ourselves. That we can handle it. And also, our mind loves continuously regurgitating the same things. So, how about we're not gonna look at the negative things, but we also be fear and start thinking about the positive things as well. And also, what they love about the calm process is when you go through the whole process, just doing that is already you telling yourself that you're not abandoning yourself. And you know, you know what they say, well. It doesn't matter where you go, you take yourself with you. So how can you abandon yourself? But you abandoning yourself when you're not honoring your own needs. Because you've been told that, well, because you belong to this group, you need to do the rules and regulations in order to survive. So honoring your needs is having that break. not wearing the shoes that are too tight for you, you know. Small things that start in everyday life. But what does that mean? That's mean that you are not abandoning yourself now and no matter what will happen in the future, you will not abandon yourself as well. You're building that trust in your own abilities. So then you you know, my goal is that whatever you do this process, by doing it, you're already showing that you want the things to change. And many times, you know, and I get from clients like, you know, if I knew what to do and multiplying my what I'm doing great, I will not be in this situation and I'm But you know, we live in this society now that we are open to multiple sources of help. I mean now we can talk with somebody across the world, we can have video calls like we have right now. We can always look for help. And you own this help to yourself because if you're not gonna help yourself, you will not be able to help those that you love.
Massimo Rigotti: I'm very curious though. I mean, you created this process. it's very unique and I like how it's structured. But when you began this as someone who is a workaholic, how did you keep yourself from falling back into the trap to multiply this incredible workload that you were capable of instead of, really keeping yourself tied to that limit? how did you navigate that?
Lolita Guarin: So the whole change of my lifestyle started when, you know, for those who are listening and they're probably wondering where this my accent is from.
Massimo Rigotti: Ha ha ha.
Lolita Guarin: I was born in Lithuania and I came to US twenty-six years ago. and I came as an immigrant where had this dream of finding the you know the the the tree that produces dollars, you just come and pluck it, right? And you put it in your pocket.
Massimo Rigotti: The American dream, that's what it is, isn't it?
Lolita Guarin: American dream, you know. Yeah, that the whole forest of apparently that doesn't exist. So, you know, all the jokes aside, I I I knew I have to work hard to achieve my dream. But to be honest, it doesn't matter where you live, it doesn't matter what language you speak. we all have the same goals, aspirations, values. You know, we all want to do something with love, we want to have a roof, you know, and sleep with someone and wake up with someone we love and hug friends and travel and enjoy our life. This is like universal, doesn't matter where you live. And because I grew up with my father being alcoholic, I was very people pleasing. I was afraid to say no. because again, if I'm not gonna please someone, then I'll die. That that's how brain works. and I also was very extra hard on me know being people pleaser with work co-workers and with the bosses and work whatever. Hours always available. There's no time to take care of yourself. and I get to the point that my body said, No, like you cannot do this anymore. I end up in the emergency room, and the doctor said, Good that you came today because you have not survived till tomorrow. it really messed up my hormones. Stress messed up hormones, and any woman listening knows hormones need to be your friend in order to survive. Just plainly said, and That was my really big wake-up call when I was like, okay, I need to start doing something different. But I love how you pointed out about, okay, you're coming with this trauma, and my idea is to go, go, go. I was not really seen and appreciated for who I was without doing anything. So that's mean I am only seen when I'm producing. And if I stop producing, hence I'm gonna die. But then wait, I'm already dying from producing.
Massimo Rigotti: Yes.
Lolita Guarin: So I really start us looking back and and asking myself, is it really working? And you know, many times I hear people wait until they in the hospital already dying, and then they say, now I need to change. And that's what I tell my clients, you know, when somebody comes and say, Well, my my you know, my doctor told me I need to manage my stress and here I am, or like my you know, my my husband said, I need to have a coaching client. I'm like, Okay. and with all of those highly achievers, you know, for those who pushing us to produce, I always have a one question. And when you know they always say, okay, what do we mean to do? Because remember the doers. We
Massimo Rigotti: Yes.
Lolita Guarin: the doers were supposed to do something about it, right? So there's no way I'm gonna tell you do nothing. You're like, well what you mean? I'm gonna die. So I have to give them something to do, right? To do something. And this is how I know and now who's listening in, I want you now to listen to your body and how that makes you feel and what thoughts you get when I'm asking you this one question. I mean not the question, but I'm telling you what you need to do is you set an alarm on your phone. Can you believe you're gonna use your phone for something good today? and you put ring maybe every two hours or every hour, whatever you you like. Pick pick your time. And then whatever rings, you stop doing whatever you're doing. Of course if it's safe for you to do. Don't don't operate heavy machinery and then stop doing. And just close your eyes, have some water, just relax for one minute, one minute. And now when you tell this to yourself, how your body reacted. Or you thought to
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
Lolita Guarin: yourself, or you thought to yourself, What? Stupid one minute. that's ridiculous. One minute is not gonna change my life. Or
Massimo Rigotti: It will.
Lolita Guarin: or you said, I don't have time for that. Because self love and anything that you give yourself is seen as a bad thing. How dare you to be selfish to help yourself? Because we've been trained to do that. That's just humankind from generations and generations. That's not only our parents. This is generational for thousands of years. If you're not producing, you'll die. But I always tell those who come to me and they say, you know, and they say, Okay, can you do this one little thing? Can you set your alarm and have this one minute and do absolutely nothing? And one day tell me that, Are you kidding me? I don't have time for this, for stupid games like this. And I I'm like, Okay, you even don't have a minute. Because, you know, they're running multiple businesses, they're dealing with their kids, they they have to deal with their aging parents and all of this all of the stuff that we need to do. And then I asked them so okay, who's going to take care of all of those businesses and those kids of those parents when you're in the hospital? So start doing this now because when you take care of yourself, then you can take care of everybody else. And we need to start this martyrdom of I'm just gonna give, give, give, and then the statue will be built for me.
Massimo Rigotti: Well, I'm I'm curious, you just talked about people pleasing and that being like really your core challenge. you said it several times. So for a lot of the listeners who are out there protecting their own sobriety, what do you want a grown child of an alcoholic to understand about their own risk of addiction, even if they have never touched a drink themselves?
Lolita Guarin: nobody will die if you say no. Start small. It's gonna be very, very scary. And you know, here, I don't know where you all listeners are, but usually in the malls here, there's some salespeople standing around and they're trying to sell you something, you know, they they push you. So how about you start as exercise? You just go to the place where they have plenty of salespeople and when they try to push you something to buy, you just say no. And just walk around, you say no, no, thank you, no, thank you. And you will see that nobody's gonna die just because you said no. And the moment you start building this, and you then you'll be honest with yourself, and you say no, and you have boundaries with other people, it's it works miraculously, and I love this because I went through the same thing. I realized that wow, the more I say no, the more I'm being respected, the more I've I've seen as authentic, not someone that's going to be just a saying yes and then not delivering. Someone that I can be trusted. But also I realized that the more I said no, the more I built the boundaries and more loved myself more. I was able to give more. but also I was building the trust in myself that I can do more things, not only that has to do with boundaries, but other things in my life as well.
Massimo Rigotti: So what's one thing that you think that adult children of alcoholics get wrong about their own resilience? there has to be some common thread that you tend to see here.
Lolita Guarin: If you stop performing, the wall will not fall apart. That's why even stopping and doing nothing for five minutes, it looks ridiculous.
Massimo Rigotti: Lolita, the sober method begins with stoic and getting radically honest about what is actually within your control, which is almost exactly like your own control. C and the calm process, from there, the sober method moves to observe, which is naming what is actually happening without judgment or spin. And then that is exactly where your work lives. And for a high achiever, the stakes are not abstract. And burn out driven mistakes will obviously cost you reputation and promotions. And, it's just things that will erode your relationships at home. And underneath is that fear of losing the one identity, being capable. And that got you everything you have. So my question for you is for the listener who's built their entire career on never needing anything from anyone. How does naming that pattern, instead of just managing the stress it causes, change what happens next for them?
Lolita Guarin: So for those who have children, I will ask them to ask themselves, would I be okay if my child will have their own com company, their own family, their own kids, and will never ask for help, but they take everything on them, how they will make me feel. Because you know, we teach other people around us how we live by example. And it's not only about you that any change that happens. Is also about your kids that you show by example. The same as we learned how to be resilient, we probably learned that from someone else. And definitely that has to do, you know, when I came from you know an environment where my dad was alcoholic, I learned that I cannot trust anyone. So it's very important to start building that trust and pointed out that there are plenty things in your life that you delegated or you asked for help, which We did. There's no way that we went all our lives without asking for anyone's help. And Bill and pointed out that there was trust and we we should let go because when we are capable and we're not stressed out, we're not burned out, then we can be more in other people's lives and feel full and happy and healthy.
Massimo Rigotti: Well, everyone, before we go, here is your sober move this week, an observe and restore step inspired by Lolita. Every time you catch yourself saying yes when you meant no or picking up one more task nobody actually asked you to carry, I want you to stop and observe it without judgment. Just write down what happened and what you told yourself in that moment. And then I want you to run Lolita's control audit. Ask yourself honestly, is this mine to carry, or did I just grab it? And if it's not yours. Then that's your limit. One boundary said once out loud before Sunday. Last, restore on purpose. I want you to pick one thing that actually refills you, not one more task, and then multiply it. Do it twice this week instead of zero times and journal what shifts for you. This is the difference between managing your stress and finally trusting yourself. Now, Lolita, we have a tradition on this podcast where each guest answers a question left by my last guest. Brian Blackmon left you this question. What is going to keep you from putting that one foot in front of the other to change your life for the best?
Lolita Guarin: 'Cause I don't want to be dying and looking back and say, you know what, I shoulda, coulda, woulda, but I didn't.
Massimo Rigotti: So I have to ask you, do you have a question you'd like to leave my next guest?
Lolita Guarin: Yes, I would like to ask them what age they would like to live in and why.
Massimo Rigotti: Ooh, that's that's a good one. I can't wait to hear the answer to that. to everyone listening, I want you to keep observing and journaling your own behaviors daily. My new book, Digital Sober Method, is available now anywhere books are sold. If putting down your phone is the fight you're in, this is your solution. I'm Massimo Rigotti This is the Sober Method Podcast. Please follow, like, subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with anyone who needs to hear it. Remember, your future is sober.
