Trodden Underfoot

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We're all owned by the Syndicate body and soul or
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should I just say bunny.
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Hello?
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Filthy movie lovers, something weirdos and anti Criterion bros To
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the thirty eighth episode of the Sin Syndicate where men
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come to be trodden underfoot and we always have this
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in a higher heel. My name is Gentry Austen, writer
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and researcher, and I'm here with my co host, adult
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film historian Casey Scott. And in this week's episode, we
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are joined by Jane Garrett, archivist, erotic historian and author
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of John Willie A Bizarre Life, to talk about director
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Joseph Marzano's nineteen sixty seven adaptation of Leopold von Socker
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Masse's infamous novel about sexual enslavement and loving cruelty, Venus
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in Furs.
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This is Marzano. You're a director and host, cordially inviting
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the patrons of this theater to a weekend of fun
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and games with Eleanora and Stephanie. Leopold von Sachelmassach wrote
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Venus and Furs a hundred years ago, and from his
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name evolved the word masochism, every meaning of that word,
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every sensual dream He ever had is brought to vivid
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life in this fascinating film inspired by his work. Any
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man who has experienced the delicious pain of desire inflicted
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by beautiful women will know the evil truth of venus
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and furs.
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Can there be any greater or cruelty you're dreaming?
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So? It has always been since the times of Helen
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and Delilah by Dantelo la Montez.
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If there is something you feel we left out in
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our brief resume of weekend activities only inted out here,
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do please let us know. The girls will we did
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a light of to fulfilled and gratify your every expectation. Oh,
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you're saving us in first shall destroy you at this
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theater soon.
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Soon, so and so, so, so and so and so.
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But before we bring on Jane, we have a few
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sexploitation news items and updates. Casey, should we start with
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this top one here commentaries? You want to tease some more?
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I do well, because we've been We've been working hard
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on these, curiously because it's a lot of research into Luckily, Yeah,
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we won't say what the titles are. They are being
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announced on May first, so you will hear about it
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when this this episode comes out Wednesday. What day is
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that the three? You'll hear about it a few days yeah, right,
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So yeah, it's it's about there are films that we
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there are films and filmmakers. Well we've covered the filmmakers
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sort of, but there's other deep dives that we have
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to do. So it's like a lot of research because obviously,
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if you've listened to our previous commentaries for Sexploiters and
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Raw Love, we like to cover every possible nook and
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cranny of information that we can, and luckily, there's a
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lot of really good nooks and cranny's about this these films.
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So yeah, kind of surprising too for as well known,
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semi wrote well known as these are in the sexploitation field,
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there's still a lot of inaccuracies out there with regard
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to us, cast and crew.
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Yep, which we are trying to fix. I haven't decided
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if I'm going to fix IMDb yeah, might let you
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do that, but but yeah, I mean, it's it's it's interesting,
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and we're trying to get them done as quickly as
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possible because they're going to be announced with with them
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being on there, so yeah, they will be done. Yeah, No,
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I think I think that's good. A little tease for
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those yep, gorgeous restorations will tell you that absolutely stunning.
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Yeah, so yeah, we also have an update Alex Holmes
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slipcase Alex correction from our Smoke and Flesh episode. He
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is a big VHS collector, as we have mentioned. I
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think we had said sort of an incorrect date with
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regard to when those the Smoke and Flesh vhs came out.
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So he's a collector, and he noticed you can kind
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of tell a difference between what we're re releases and
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sort of original based on the design on the back.
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So yeah, I'm just going to quote him here. The
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way to tell us from the design on the back
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for Smoking Flesh it would have been issued from either
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ninety four or ninety five, because the two copies that
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are sold on eBay are both ninety six reissues. This
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would also be the case for a copy of Caged Virgins,
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which he also picked up, that was originally released in
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ninety three, but he has the reissue copies, so I
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have some examples in our show notes. Yeah, it's kind
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of a cool little note here, just you can tell
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the ninety two that you know those early ninety two
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ninety three releases and then the ninety four ninety five
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ninety six reissues. I'm sure Lisa was probably more closely
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involved with those later ones.
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So yes, because she because she yes, probably except the ones,
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the earlier ones. The design on those is good. And
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that's something else that I would I would want to
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ask her. It's like, who was doing the in house
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designing before you got there, because that look, it didn't
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change that much, but it changed enough that it became
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more I don't know, more consistent across the board. Because
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if you look at the ones from earlier that he has,
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there's like they look pretty different in terms of fonts
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and and other things, and then there's a consistency the
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ones from ninety six. So I feel like that is
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Lisa's doing where it's like, let's keep these consistent, let's
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make these more collectible. I mean, she has that design background.
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Yeah, so exactly.
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I think it's definitely an improvement. But that's very interesting.
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I think that's you know, and that just makes me
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think that I think Lisa there is something weird press.
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I know that that's something that she is looking into
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do a book about this, Like for real like I
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would love love to see the gradual changes over time
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for the different box art, and then you know I
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would eat that shit up.
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We've got another update here with another date date related
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update here casey.
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Yes, which I only to further tease what we're working on.
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I only figured this out because I had to do
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research on the distribution, release vision user of this film. Anyway,
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So we had mentioned the last episode talking about Smoking
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Flesh how the openings were very similar between Acid Eaters
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and Smoking Flesh, and I noted that, so Acid Eats
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has that year sixty eight attached to it. It actually
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did not come out in sixty eight. It came out
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in October sixty seven, so it's much more of a
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sixty seven film than a sixty eight film. So it
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came out, you know, several months earlier than Smoking Flesh.
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So it's possible that, you know, Mangene and co. Saw
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Ascid Eaters and felt a little inspired by that one
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to do. Yeah, very possible add elements to it.
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It's possible we really wanted to get into We could
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see if it was screened in like Jersey or New York,
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where it probably was.
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Jean would have seen it.
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Yeah, right, right, but I believe that it probably was.
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You know, we have more updates on that too.
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Speaking of New Jersey, I know God.
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Loves Sean Langrick, So Sean Langrick is not just we've
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already established that he's a New Jersey locations guy with
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Francis Friday, where he really wanted to detail about those locations,
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so he was able to pinpoint the locations where the
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drug dealer and smoke and flesh all of the stuff
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with him driving down the streets and things, or most
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of this stuff was actually shot in Bloomfield, New Jersey,
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specifically around Glenwood Avenue and Bloomfield Avenue. And then he
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also found that that is where Mangeen lived at the time.
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And he married his first wife in January nineteen sixty
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eight in Bloomfield, New Jersey. Then they divorced in California
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in seventy three, and that's when he married Adrian like
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ten years later. And then we'd also talked about the
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biker taking the tunnel into the city, and that kind
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of implies that his journey in this film is more
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or less geographically accurate because he's coming from Jersey into
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New York, specifically into Greenwich Village, and he did confirm
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that the location that I mentioned were, like, you know,
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in the village.
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The PAS station.
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He confirmed that was accurate. And then there was another
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building on Church Street which he also noted. So that
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was good to know the New Jersey connection. And it's
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interesting the more films from this area, from the New
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York area that we're watching, I think the constant belief
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in the fact that we're not they're not credited. Locations
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aren't credited typically, So I was like, well, this is
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a New York apartment, and that's not always the case.
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Sometimes they're going to go to well, not even Manhattan.
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It could be Queens, it could be Jersey, it could
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be Long Island. I think we had a movie to
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Coney Island too, So it just makes me think that
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I need to be more like Sean and keep an
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eye on these locations. But also Sean is like, there
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is no there's no there's no one else like Sean.
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So he's gonna notice these locations, and that's not locations
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that just anybody who knows Jersey is gonna recognize.
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Yeah, when I saw that shop, right, I'm like, I
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know Sean's on it.
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I don't even know. I don't even need to look
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this up. He'll figure out where this is.
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Right, Like he's good about New York locations. I think
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he also mentioned Florida and California is good too. But
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then also Mike McCollum's good about that too. When we
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have a vote update from Mike McCollum too, which will
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go over as well. After we finished the Shawn updates,
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because he gave us another good one. Actually he gave
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us two additional good ones. Sean was really on the
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case this.
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Yes, I love this one because it confirms what I
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was trying to argue to you, which is that this
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was not shot that the house in smoking flesh. It's
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not like a walk up. It doesn't look like a
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walk up to me. It's an actual Jersey you know.
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I don't want to say suburban, maybe slightly suburban house
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with multi levels which appears to be probably which makes
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more sense Man Jean's house.
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Yeah, right, Well, because he confirmed that Joe Manjean, he
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found an article from August sixty four which described him
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as a high altitude photographer and skydiver. So the skydiving
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connection to Ian Merrick, the production manager is right there,
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and then they both connecting to Mayhon in that way
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makes total sense. And then something we both missed was
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the skydiving book on the bookshelf in the in the in.
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The apartment back and looked and I still couldn't see it.
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Yeah, like that's why I'm just like, I Sean is insane. Yeah,
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Jesus Christ, thank God he's thank God he's he's using
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his powers for good not evil. Yeah, like this is
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this is some dangerous ship. But yeah, no, that was
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very that was really good eagle eye viewing. So it's
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just like, Okay, this definitely has to have been his house.
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So then it was so then basically everyone who was
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based in New York treked out to Bloomfield, New Jersey
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and shot in Joe's house the interiors, and that also
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makes sense because then there's the attic, which makes sense
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that it's a house and not like even a townhouse
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in the village, so that definitely makes sense. And that
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kitchen is also, in hindsight, much more spacious than the
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New York kitchen would be. So yeah, it's just yeah,
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it's a lot of stuff that's kind of like, okay, it.
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Just yeah, I love it because it just clicked everything
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into place once we got that kind of Bloomfield, New
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Jersey connect that that confirmation.
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Yeah, and we find we got a picture of him too,
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which is great because he has there's a picture of
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him in that sixty four article. Oh yes, you know,
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in a in a plane, ready to take a picture.
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So yeah, like that that was helpful too, and confirming
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from that picture that he's not in this movie.
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Mm hmm yep. Another Sean Langer update here, Janet Banzett.
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That was interesting too because he said, I assume you
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found this stuff and I was like, no, I have not,
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so the I was like, no, Sean, believe it or not.
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This is why when we mentioned in the last episode,
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this is why we need more hands in the pie
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and more people involved. This is why we need it's
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it's a group project, not an individual gatekeep gate kept project.
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This is why we need more people on this because
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this is stuff that I missed, that you missed that
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I think. I don't think Alex was aware of this either.
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So it's like, yeah, people use different research methods and
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Shawn's are filling in those blanks, and there's other people
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that are doing the same thing. So apparently she had
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a side career in newspaper syndication as a columnist for
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a guy named Joseph Khalif who ran something called American
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Feature Syndicate. And so she was there from roughly seventy
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through seventy one up basically up until the time of
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her death. And it makes sense because she showed up
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in all these newspaper columns and little bits and little
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blurbs about you know, how she was about town. She
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had little roles and plays and things. And Sean noted
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that Khalif was connected to a lot of those blurbs,
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and so it makes sense then that they were connected
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in another way, which was that he was employing her.
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But the extent of the employment we're still not sure
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about because he's unable to find any confirmation that these
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things because her He found a bunch of articles that
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her name is on. He can't find if they were
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published anywhere or not, or if they were just available
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to be published in syndication. So that's one of his
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next things. He needs to research one of her last
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column I think the last column that he could find
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for her was dated for July thirty first, nineteen seventy one,
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which is a couple of days after her death, so
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very strange. But the real thing I'm excited about is
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that she copyrighted a script she wrote called The Rocking
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Horse Girl in January nineteen seventy. So to copyright a
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script you have to deposit a copy of it with
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the copyright office. So Jane Bans's script is on file
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at the Copyright Office, and so I would love to
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read a copy of that and know what the heck
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she wrote and why she wrote it.
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Yeah, in which copyright office? Do we know where this is?
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That we are?
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There is only one.
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That's what I was going to ask.
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Is there the United States Copyright Office? There are no
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copyright offices per state, Gentry.
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There's you for this. I didn't copy.
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Wait you, but you don't know about copyright. I'll give you.
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I'll give you a we'll I'll teach you about copy.
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That's my passion. Yeah. No, the copyright office is the
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United States Copyright Office. There's only one copyright office. So
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that's where people deposit films, scripts, tapes of songs, everything that.
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If you're registering something for copyright, you send it to Washington,
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d C. So she did that for this, and uh,
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I need I'd like to read it The Rocking Horse
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Girl a year in, a year and a half before
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she died, So I'd really like to know if she
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was trying to sell it. Yeah, yeah, I want to
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know if it was a script for theater or film,
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because that there those scripts would be very different based
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on you know, like direction and stuff in that script.
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And who knows how much of herself is in this script?
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You know? Yeah, I mean what if it's like autobiographical,
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what if it's about a girl who came from Dallas
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to New York? You know, I don't know. I'm fascinated.
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I love the idea of this exploitation. Actress wrote something
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called The Rocking Horse Girl and it's about a woman.
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So I'm automatically interested, Like what does she have to
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How is she writing women based on her experiences, you know,
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so far in her life? Fascinating.
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Yeah, Mike McCollum's got something for us too. This is
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the Angry Sky? Was this the Barry Mahon movie?
295
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.480
Yeah? That was the one that Ian Merrick produced, and
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there was like a premiere in sixty six and I
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forget where it was now, but we talked about it
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in that episode in that Smoking Flesh episode, and I
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had mentioned I don't think it was released anywhere, because
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I can't find any evidence of it. He found at
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least a screening on television in Chicago in nineteen sixty seven,
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which is like, really, yeah, I think because it was
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I thought it was made sixty six or sixty seven,
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But apparently it was a documentary about a man trying
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to set a record for high altitude parachuting and he
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was injured on his third attempt. So once again here
307
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we have parachuting and skydiving and Ian Merrick was involved.
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00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.960
And then it makes me think, okay, was Myzano involved?
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Probably because he was he was shooting, he was photographing
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people doing skydiving, so that's likely that he was involved
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with that as well.
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Also notes the play bands that went to Florida.
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What's this about? Watch the Birdie?
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She did?
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So she did a play in Florida, which I found
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an article about. And the play that she went to
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appear in was directed by Richard B. Shule, who was
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00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.960
in He was the star Watched the Birdie and then
319
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he wrote Pamela, Pamela, you are for William Melrose and
320
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then he copyrighted some things with William L. Rose as well,
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so he was William a big collaborator with the Rose.
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I feel like he also was involved with Renter Girl,
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and he definitely did the story for Aroused, so he
324
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was definitely he was involved with other sexploitation stuff. But
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he was a very popular character actor before he died.
326
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So the connections to sexploitation are obviously there because she
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went to Florida and was directed, so, you know, directed
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by this guy that I'm trying to think if she
329
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did any films with him, but yeah, so that was
330
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very That was interesting connection that they both went into
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Florida to do that. And then the last McCollum win
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00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.519
was that he was researching the electronic I mentioned I
333
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thought Sean was researching Jesse Elberger, and Mike confirmed that
334
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he was the one researching the electronic Lover.
335
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So we will, yes, when we talked about possibly talking
336
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possibly covering that later, yeah.
337
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Yes, which I still think we should. So then you know,
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we'll we'll reach out to Mike and see what he
339
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.160
has found on that. I think because I didn't I
340
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.079
would never think that that was the guy's real name.
341
00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.480
So yeah, I'm very interested to see what he found
342
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:32.920
for that guy.
343
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Yeah, and I wonder if maybe that would be the
344
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opportunity to dig into Natara.
345
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Maybe we could find something out.
346
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:44.079
No, get that, No, that Diggan was, that Diggan has
347
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.480
been done. There's nothing defined. Yeah, there's nothing defined. I need.
348
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:49.400
We need a talent release form and we're not going
349
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to get one.
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Yeah, so to get a real name.
351
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Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, folks, we need talent release forms. Yeah.
352
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.519
A lot of there's a lot of people who try
353
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.359
to do like reverse to find people. There's an entire
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Facebook group that is based around doing a verse AI
355
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and I'll tell you right now ninety percent of those
356
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.880
are inaccurate. So stop doing that. We need real, real names,
357
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real dates of birth, real information. Yeah.
358
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I think that's that wraps up our news updates, which
359
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.119
is good timing. Here, I think we'll bring on Jane.
360
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.359
Hello. Hello, it's nice to meet you.
361
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Nice to meet you too.
362
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We just wrapped up good timing.
363
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.759
I think in my intro I kind of copied the
364
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.279
description you gave on the back of your book by
365
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.839
saying archivist, erotic historian and author. Maybe you can fill
366
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in some blanks there.
367
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:41.400
Sure.
368
00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:46.319
Yeah, my name's Jane Garrett and I am an archivist
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and special collections librarian. I live in Washington State, and
370
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I'm also the author of John Willie of Bizarre Life,
371
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which is a biography of mid twentieth century bondage and
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fetish artist and Bizarre magazine founder John Willy.
373
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Yeah.
374
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.119
Well, where did you get your start in this research
375
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in history?
376
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Well, it's really been kind of a lifelong interest of mine.
377
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And as far as as far as becoming interested in
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00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.920
John Willy specifically, that started when I was a teenager.
379
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.119
One of my friends brought back that tashion set, the
380
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.920
Complete Bizarre, which was, you know, published in the nineties.
381
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One of my friends brought that back from a trip
382
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she had taken to visit some family in Germany. And
383
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I at this time, you know, I think I was
384
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about seventeen years old, sixteen, seventeen, somewhere in there, and
385
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:40.920
I'd never seen his work before. I was looking through
386
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.799
this book and I thought, oh my god, you know,
387
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:44.960
what is this. I can't believe this came out in
388
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.720
the forties and fifties. And so that was kind of
389
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.079
the start for me as far as becoming interested in
390
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.880
his work. And over the years, you know, I collected
391
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.720
issues of Bizarre and I collected his work and anything
392
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:02.279
that I could find about him. But the one thing
393
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.279
that was always missing was a biography.
394
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:05.279
You know.
395
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.920
There were little things written, introductions to books or short articles,
396
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.480
but there was not a biography that had come out,
397
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:15.039
and that was something I always wanted to read. And
398
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.319
then one day I thought, you know, well, maybe I
399
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.519
could write a biography. I've always liked to write. I
400
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.680
was a writing major when I was an undergrad, so
401
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.400
that was just kind of something I decided to try
402
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.440
and see if I could do, and sure enough, it
403
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.000
came together. It was a lot of fun. It was
404
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.000
really really a privilege for me to write this book
405
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.759
and be able to do that kind of deep research
406
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:40.599
and share what I'd learned with other people.
407
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.720
And I love that you've been doing like appearances and
408
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.400
readings and pairing them with like shows and stuff. You've
409
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.079
got one coming up, I think.
410
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah, Yeah, that one coming up next week May second,
411
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.960
which is Saturday, and that's going to be in the Spokane,
412
00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:59.559
Washington at a bookstore called Giant Nerd Books and they're
413
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:00.960
doing a fetish art show.
414
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:02.880
Yeah, maybe a lot of artists.
415
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.480
They've they've already I guess selected the people that are
416
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:08.559
going to be in it. I'm so excited to see
417
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.720
all the artwork, and there's I'm going to do a
418
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.000
book talk and sign books and that kind of thing.
419
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:15.279
This is eventually going to tie back into our movie,
420
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:19.119
of course, but I'm I'm always curious, you know, how
421
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.359
the audience reception has been to this material and these shows, like,
422
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.039
you know, you've been in this scene for a while, like,
423
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:28.160
how have you seen it?
424
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.799
You know, mold and change.
425
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.680
Well, truthfully, I mean the first of all, the turnout
426
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.519
for everything has been fantastic, way beyond my expectations every time,
427
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.279
which has been really really cool. And just this the
428
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.319
huge variety of people that come out that are interested
429
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.119
in the different reasons that they're interested, getting getting to
430
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.039
talk to people and and you know, hear about their
431
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.759
interests and why they're there. It's just really interesting and exciting.
432
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:01.599
And recently I did a an intro for Satan and
433
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:03.359
High Heels, which I know you guys did an episode
434
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.039
few weeks ago, and yeah, and it was it was
435
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.240
there was a great turnout for that. I wasn't you know,
436
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.359
I wasn't really sure because sex Best, who was working
437
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.359
with they usually do hardcore, which is to see hardcore
438
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.000
on the big screen, and this was their first time
439
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.279
really doing kind of more of a sexploitation film, and
440
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.000
so I really it wasn't sure, you know. I thought,
441
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:25.440
I was the audience is going to like that or
442
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.920
are they not going to come out for this one?
443
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.240
But a lot of people came out for it and
444
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:31.960
seemed really interested. I gave it kind of a history
445
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:34.359
talk at the beginning, and folks were really engaged. So
446
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:35.480
that was a lot of fun.
447
00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.000
That's great. Yeah, I love that movie. Well, yeah, because
448
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.039
when we covered it, I remember that Gentry was kind
449
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.799
of like it wasn't as like it didn't have like
450
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.000
as much as much sex or like ties to fetish
451
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.759
as as much as he thought it would. But I
452
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.039
don't know, yeah, right, right exactly. You were kind of like,
453
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:56.720
this really could have gone this could have gone further.
454
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.359
But remembering that it was made in like between sixty
455
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.559
and sixty two, it's kind of like, what can we
456
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:06.160
get away with? You know? Yeah, right exactly, And then
457
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.200
you compare it to this movie and it's like they're
458
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:10.960
they're really testing a lot of waters with this one
459
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.039
where yeah, because it's it is because it's that by
460
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.920
this point at sixty seven, so we've had the Olga films,
461
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.880
We've had some of the Michael Finley films. It really
462
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.200
is sticking a lot to the East Coast, and so
463
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.480
this one, there are so many different fetishes in this
464
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.279
and so it feels like there's a little a little
465
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.920
something for everybody in this, which I think is what
466
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.039
makes it really interesting, and including like Homer erotic stuff,
467
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.119
which is very unusual for films at this time to
468
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.880
be including like the massage scene and things.
469
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.279
Like that, and the weightlifting scene. Yeah.
470
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:46.920
Yes, I mean I love it obviously, but like I'm
471
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.119
not the audience for these movies, you know, so it's
472
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.039
kind of like I love it. I wonder what they
473
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.240
thought of it at the time. I've always wonder about that,
474
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:54.640
you know.
475
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.680
Yeah, Well, I know, Jane, when we were initially talking that,
476
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:00.480
we were like, we want to bring you want to
477
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.480
talk about something, and we're trying to find the right movie,
478
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:07.359
and so I think we initially suggested Olga, one of
479
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:12.039
the Olga films, and you did not love it. Tell
480
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.920
us a little bit about like your response to that,
481
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:15.799
you know.
482
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.759
I'd watched I tried. I'd watched an Olga, the first
483
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.839
Olga movie before, and I remember thinking back on it.
484
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:24.839
I thought, I seem to remember I didn't really like
485
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.480
that that well for some reason, and I when I
486
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:30.920
went back to watch it the second time, I was like, oh, yeah,
487
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.200
I just I don't know what it is. I find it.
488
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.960
It's gonna sound bad, but I find it a little
489
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.880
bit boring. It wasn't really good.
490
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:43.079
Wrong, Yeah, no, you're not wrong. That's a that's a
491
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.799
valid for sure.
492
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.559
I could see, uh, the Olgas being a little bit
493
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:50.319
more if you compare it to what we're going to
494
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:52.839
talk about here Venus and first, like the Olgas are
495
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:55.799
a little cartoonish maybe in their depiction. I think this
496
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:59.599
is a little bit more like kind of darkly. I mean,
497
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:01.519
I think there's a touch of humor in this, but
498
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.400
I think it's a little bit more surreal and dark,
499
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:06.440
and I could see the appeal more.
500
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:12.640
Yeah, I love how stylish this venis and stylish yeah yeah, yeah.
501
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.079
Like you were saying about all the different fetishes, what
502
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.640
was cool I was noticing was even some kind of
503
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.599
old school fetishes that you don't often see represented, like
504
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.160
for example, there were a couple of instances where women
505
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.400
were wearing these very long white satin gowns, and satin
506
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:34.519
was a really popular fetish material for a long time,
507
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.960
both the skin but also before we had things like
508
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:44.519
latex or PBC where satin supplied that shine that is
509
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.920
such so appealing to a lot of people. So that
510
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.480
was something that I was kind of surprised to see
511
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.160
at this late date nineteen sixty seven, when we were
512
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:56.519
starting to have things like rubber attire and stuff like that,
513
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.839
not the rubber, but you know rubber tenures.
514
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.559
Spetishwere Yeah, that is interesting. I didn't know that about
515
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.839
about satin because yeah, I mean that is something that
516
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.519
is that I'm not as familiar with. And so that's
517
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.160
why I absolutely do need your book. I'm more familiar with,
518
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.480
like with with gay fetishism. So like Samuel Stewart with
519
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.759
that book came out, I love that book. Yeah, and
520
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:21.480
that was a game changer and I was like and
521
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:23.200
when I was reading it, I was like, Okay, so
522
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.039
this is the gay side, Like what is the straight side? Like?
523
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.240
So I feel like John Willie, I need to be
524
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:31.720
familiar with John Willy and that we'll add that additional
525
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.240
context of like what was going on at the same time,
526
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:35.640
what was his background you know?
527
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.799
Yeah, yeah, John Willy was was heavy heterosexual in his
528
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:47.319
approach to to fetish, So yeah, that definitely is there.
529
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.559
Okay, what do you waste his sweat on that broad, Davie?
530
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:53.920
That type didn't never buy.
531
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.640
Oh, I don't mind, you're too nice.
532
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:59.240
I kind of like to take advantage they might to
533
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.240
see a guy called on a floors. Hey, hey, louis
534
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.480
having that redhead I waited on last night?
535
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:09.319
Yeah, yeah, the big one. Yeah, they're what a hard
536
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:13.519
time she gave me. You should have seen it. Ans
537
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.839
I got a ome there.
538
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:16.960
You don't know, I don't handle him.
539
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.960
Let me clearly you, Davy, I'll see you later.
540
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:30.680
Should we talk about the release history really quick?
541
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.519
Casey? Yeah, well, I did want to start with the trailer.
542
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.920
The director Joseph Marzano hosts the trailer, so it has
543
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.880
that personal touch where he's like that he terry. He
544
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.079
hosts the trailer and opens it with like, this is Marzano,
545
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:47.559
your director and host, and it's kind of like he's
546
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:50.039
welcoming you to like this is the circus, Like this
547
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.519
is the welcome to our show. Like we're going to
548
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.400
show you all these amazing things, and it just definitely
549
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:58.559
ties into, like I think you'd mentioned in the notes,
550
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.720
how it feels a little personal for him and some
551
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:05.799
of this stuff he casts himself in certain sequences. There's
552
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.160
there's in like a submissive role for most of most
553
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.680
of the time he's in there. So it definitely makes
554
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.720
me wonder. But it definitely has that tie of the
555
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.480
personal because not a lot of directors were doing that
556
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:20.680
like russ Meyer would do it. Now actually russ Meyer
557
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.960
never did it. Russ Meyer had stand ins to do it,
558
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.200
but yeah, a lot of directors they were not as
559
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.599
involved with hosting the trailers for their movies.
560
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.559
Yeah right, Yeah.
561
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.519
I love that introduction where he's like, this is Marzano
562
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.640
because it made me think, you know, we never got
563
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.000
like a series of Marzano films where we he could
564
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.039
have created this persona character for himself, but we never
565
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.039
got that because he as we'll go into we'll learn
566
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:50.160
his his what happened after this?
567
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.759
But where did this premiere? Hear in my town?
568
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:56.400
It did it premiered in your town? Except New York
569
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:58.880
wanted people to believe it was premiering in New York,
570
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.680
which is not the case. So it's interesting because we
571
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.720
were doing research on for other commentaries we're doing, and
572
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.480
Minneapolis was like a go to premiere town for a
573
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.400
lot of exploitation, which I don't know if you knew that, gentry,
574
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.240
but these movies were premiering in your backyard.
575
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:15.640
Well, I know Friedman ya had a connection with that theater,
576
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.799
so he helped get some stuff. But this, yeah, wasn't
577
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:20.039
Friedman related.
578
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:24.279
No, this one was Novak, which we've Yeah, we've we've
579
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:26.920
talked a lot about Novak on here, and I don't
580
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.519
think we need to cover him that much on this
581
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:31.880
because you don't need to get me started. I'll put
582
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.839
it that way. You don't need to know. We're gonna
583
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.000
keep the vibes positive. I don't need to talk about
584
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:40.599
what a sleeve's Novac was. But Yeah, premiered with Wonderful
585
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.920
World of Girls, which was way older and totally different
586
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:48.119
and a color movie in Minneapolis. Yeah, but the world premiere,
587
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.480
which happened three days later, was Monday, July tenth, and
588
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.079
that premiered simultaneously the T Valley in Manhattan and The
589
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.880
Sin Aren't in Brooklyn, and they premiered it premiered pair
590
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.119
with two different movies. So Manda Bizarro again a color
591
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:03.559
movie at the t V Lee in Manhattan, and then
592
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.000
kiss Me Nicely, which I think has Kissed Me Quick
593
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.319
at the Sinnart. So you have this movie that's coming out,
594
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:13.119
which is a very forward, it's a very sexually forward
595
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.880
black and white film com paired with two very different
596
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.960
older color films on the B side. So I thought
597
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.319
that was really strange. I don't know if maybe the
598
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:26.319
programming thought was they were like palette cleansers or something
599
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:29.640
after kind of being in this black and white world
600
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:33.079
that is very different. But I found that programming very
601
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.880
unusual that they would pair it with color films from like,
602
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:39.000
you know, three years previously and kiss Me quickscase.
603
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:41.559
I mean, I think black and white still had this
604
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:46.319
sort of a certain cachet with audience members who kind
605
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:48.400
of knew what they were going to get with a
606
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:53.160
black and white roughy, nudy, and I think it had
607
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.240
an audience that wanted to see that. I know we
608
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:58.240
always talk about like, well, when color came in, black
609
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:02.000
and whites were dead, but obviously it wasn't instantaneous.
610
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:04.279
No, Well, Hollywood is the same way. I mean, there
611
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.440
were still Hollywood was still doing color films, wide screen films,
612
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.720
but also you know, black and white films that were
613
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.799
more edgy or gritty or like urban urban city stories.
614
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:15.559
So it makes sense that a lot of the New
615
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.440
York film stayed black and white and they really felt
616
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.519
like the Naked City sort of kind of kind of visuals.
617
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.119
But also strange that this was distributed nationwide by a
618
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:27.519
California distributor, which was Novak, so he didn't distribute that
619
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:29.440
many New York films. And the fact that he went
620
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.079
back to the well for the same producer for three
621
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.720
movies is very unusual because he really didn't do that
622
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.599
that frequently. So something about lu Campa he was he
623
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:40.920
wanted to be in the lu Caampa business at least
624
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.960
three times and before he bailed.
625
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:47.880
Yeah, And speaking of Yeah lu Campa, this was paired
626
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:52.599
with Mini Skirt Love, Cool It Baby, a Depraved Desires
627
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.759
triple feature on DVD. I think that's probably one of
628
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:59.960
the best image something Weird releases they ever did.
629
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:03.359
But I like these movies. I know some people don't.
630
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.519
What do you think, Casey?
631
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.559
I agree They're so different too. I mean Mini'skirt Love
632
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:12.639
is basically like NonStop incests essentially. You know, it's like, yeah,
633
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:16.360
it's it's it's it's much easier than this. That's for sure.
634
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.239
Much his aunt and uh, it's his aunt, but the
635
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.599
aunt also has affection for her sister, and so yeah,
636
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.199
it's very weird and cool. A baby is very like
637
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:30.280
crime syndicate, kind of noir ish thing about like a
638
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.920
blackmail story. Yeah, so Venus and First is definitely the
639
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:37.000
art the art one here, like we're it's there's a
640
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:40.519
lot more style. There's a lot more Yeah, this I
641
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:43.159
mean style is it's style of the capital s I
642
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.400
think is Venus and First. And that's why it works,
643
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.920
I think is because he's really interested in telling this story.
644
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.880
Well there's very little story, but he's very interested in
645
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.960
kind of building this visual tapestry for the audience. What
646
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.119
I think is really interesting.
647
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.880
Well, I'm looking at these ad mats and you know,
648
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.159
I wanted to ask you, Jane, how familiar do you
649
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:08.440
think audience members were to this story? Did they immediately
650
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:10.840
know what this movie was going to be about when
651
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.400
you advertise Venus and First?
652
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.760
Well, you know, I think within kind of the existing
653
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:22.440
fetish community, probably you know, the Venus in first was
654
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:27.239
first translated into English my understanding in nineteen oh two
655
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.159
in a very small, privately printed edition which came out
656
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.880
of Paris. And then there was a second English translation
657
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.559
in nineteen twenty one, and both of these both of
658
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:43.840
those translations were like not great translations. Apparently, it wasn't
659
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.159
until nineteen sixty five that there was the first English
660
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:52.920
unexpurgated edition, and that came out of London through luxore Press.
661
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.039
Okay, so it's pretty fresh. Then, that's sixteen, pretty that.
662
00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:00.840
Right now, that that was England, but you know, this
663
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.239
was Luxar Press specialized in erotica. They had also brought out,
664
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.559
you know, a copy of Memoirs of a Lady of Pleasure,
665
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:11.239
Fanny Hill and some of these other heavily banned books,
666
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.559
and also, you know, and around this time in the
667
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.239
United States also there were a lot of a lot
668
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:21.119
of court cases, a lot of Supreme Court cases surrounding
669
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:24.800
different books and are they obscene? I'm not aware of
670
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:30.599
any cases highlighting Venus and Firs specifically, And I actually
671
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.840
don't know when the first American edition ended up finally
672
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:39.280
coming out, but the fact that this English, this British
673
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.079
edition came out in nineteen sixty five. I think that
674
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.719
was probably a big part of the reason why Gentry.
675
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:47.599
As you pointed out, there were like a lot of
676
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:51.119
different movies versions of Venus and first made right around
677
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:52.400
this late nineteen sixties.
678
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:56.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very strange. They're also close together.
679
00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:58.480
It's not like a Fanny Hill where you got a
680
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.039
Fanny Hill in sixty four and in sixty eight and
681
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:03.880
then yeah, like there at least there's at least some
682
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.039
years between that. But this is kind of like, oh,
683
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:08.880
we need to we need to hit while this is hot,
684
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:13.119
and so now that it's finally available, yeah.
685
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:16.679
Yeah, if you haven't seen that barb that Barber Steel short,
686
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:20.239
I think it's on one of those releases, some seven release,
687
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.199
but yeah, I think that was one of the earliest.
688
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.360
And it's just a short of her sort of you know,
689
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.239
draping herself and for and then they read some passages
690
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.000
from the novel. But yeah, right after that, then you
691
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:34.039
get this one, and then you get the Franco one
692
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:39.639
and the Massimo Dolomano one. Any thoughts on those casey,
693
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:40.039
I know.
694
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.280
Have you seen them? Have you seen those? Jane or No?
695
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:43.199
I have not.
696
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:48.920
No, Okay, so the Franco One is great. I love
697
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:51.800
the Franco One. The soundtrack is good. It's a really
698
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:54.000
good role for Maria Rome.
699
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:55.760
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
700
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.159
It's like, yeah, it's really kind of I mean, it
701
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.039
turns and transfer into like a horror narrative where it's
702
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:04.440
and it's kind of like, I don't know, it's like
703
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.000
an avenging Angel movie where like this woman who was
704
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.920
murdered by a group of people miraculously re emerges and
705
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.239
starts taking out these people one by one, kind of
706
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:18.519
like the Bridewoar Black, if she was avenging her own
707
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:21.400
death and not her husband's. Sort of it's similar to that.
708
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:25.239
I love that movie. I have not seen the Dalomno version,
709
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:27.880
but I remember seeing a trailer for like a nineteen
710
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:31.679
seventy six reissue that made it look wildly different than
711
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:34.079
I think it's supposed to be, because they edited the
712
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.480
trailer to make it look much more erotically charged than
713
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.119
I think it actually is. Well, I think it was
714
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.320
called Devil in the Flesh is how they really Yeah,
715
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.440
that's a really good trailer, but I know when I
716
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:46.880
looked it up, I was like, oh, this is from
717
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.199
nineteen sixty nine, don't. I don't think it's I don't
718
00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:53.559
think it's as tantalizing as this trailer makes it look.
719
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:54.360
Yeah, maybe not.
720
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:58.079
It's Yeah, it's very stylish. I think it's it's more
721
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:02.440
accurate to the novel than obviously Franco's is, and this
722
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:08.719
one Marzano's is, and as Laura Antonelli as Wanda, which
723
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:12.760
is okay, I know, Casey, I'm not a big It's
724
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:17.599
a very sixty nine year old erotica update on Venus,
725
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:21.840
and first I think it's pretty fun. Yeah, interesting, But yeah,
726
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.280
I haven't I don't know anything about these other later adaptations.
727
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.159
There's a looks like Scandinavian version that I've heard is
728
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:34.320
accurate from ninety four ish, and then a Korean one
729
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.719
from twenty twelve. Yeah, I'm surprised, you know, with that
730
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.760
whole like Korean horror boom, there could have been like
731
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:42.679
a really good maybe this is I don't know, this
732
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.360
is twenty twelve. I guess I'll have to seek it
733
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.559
out at some point. Maybe they do like a horror
734
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.880
adaptation like Franco. Yeah, Franco's is such a horror movie.
735
00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:58.440
Franco's is not it's barely even a venus and first movie's.
736
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.239
Let's Franco for you. Franco was better at De Sad.
737
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.679
And that's the interesting thing. It's like, it's very interesting
738
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:04.000
that we have all these venus and first adaptations. I mean,
739
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.679
Dasad was I think much more popular in terms of
740
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:11.280
adaptations because his name equaled like depravity or whatever, and
741
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.119
it was, you know, pushing the boundaries of sexuality.
742
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:18.159
And so yeah, yeah, on that note, Yeah, Jane, you
743
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:22.239
had said that you didn't hear of any censorship issues
744
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:26.679
with Leopold's book, and I think because it's not that smutty,
745
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.039
you know, I've it's short, I've read it. It's I
746
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:36.639
don't know, maybe I expected more, but yeah, it's more psychological.
747
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:37.760
I don't know.
748
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:39.320
Wouldn't you say yeah?
749
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:42.199
And I would also say that, you know, there's not
750
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.960
a lot of examples at this time, at this kind
751
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.360
of mid twentieth century period of bondage and fetish material
752
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.840
coming to court for us. I mean, obviously things were happening,
753
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.920
like things are happening to Irving Law, things were happening
754
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.880
to some of the other publishers. But you know, one
755
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.920
of the reasons that the fetish industry grew so quickly.
756
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.039
Was just the fact that this material is legal. You know,
757
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.159
you can't arrest somebody for having a pair of high
758
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.840
heeled shoes, for example, And so that could be part
759
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.159
of the reason too why the book was kind of
760
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.079
Ye are a few different reasons. One, there's no you know,
761
00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:20.360
it's not being published in the US. It's you know,
762
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:25.519
BDSM related, and as you say, it's more kind of
763
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:27.159
a psychological m h.
764
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:30.639
And it's and it's a headal romance. I mean it's
765
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:33.440
it's sort of a romance. So yeah, what would they
766
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:35.559
would they try to punish it for you?
767
00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:37.280
I can't. I can't even imagine.
768
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:38.920
But that's a good point that you made about like
769
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:46.840
fetish material is inherently like it's everyday objects, you know, sexualized, right, Yeah, yeah,
770
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:48.639
more or I need to read this.
771
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.079
I haven't read this. I should have read it in preparation,
772
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.480
but I didn't. I should have. You know, it's funny
773
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:57.760
because yeah, I've seen this version, and I've seen the
774
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.599
Franco version. I never thought to read that book, unlike
775
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.360
the Dussod's, like Dasade, I've read philosophy in the Boudoir
776
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:06.599
and Justine. I mean they're very long, but.
777
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:07.559
I know you've read those.
778
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:13.800
Yeah no, yeah, no, I remember buying the Borders books.
779
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:16.519
That's how long ago I bought those. That's how long
780
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.719
ago I bought the Dusods. There was a nice collection,
781
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.760
and I was mortified by them. I was like, oh
782
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.239
my god, Okay, they really went light in the film,
783
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:27.239
very since because you can't there's a lot of stuff
784
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:31.400
you can't shoot that's in the Dassod's books. So I'm intrigued. Yeah,
785
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.639
so I'm intrigued to apparently there aren't a lot of
786
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.800
faithful adaptations of this book, and so it made me think,
787
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.960
is it unfilmable? But it doesn't sound It sounds like
788
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.639
if it's a lot of it is psychological, or a
789
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:43.119
lot of it is. I mean a lot of books
790
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:46.239
are like that, where it's it's not about dialogue and character.
791
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:48.920
It's kind of about like, you know, creating a mood
792
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:51.920
and things like that, and that can't necessarily be translated
793
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:53.800
to a film by I mean, I.
794
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:55.920
Think it is more or less filmable. I mean the
795
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.320
Dolomano version he just hides. I think the big thing
796
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.360
is he hides a lot of the whipping behind objects,
797
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.280
you know, like a man will be he'll be whipped
798
00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:09.440
seven will be getting whipped behind like a futon or something.
799
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.559
You don't really see all of it, but I mean
800
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:12.599
you can do that nowadays.
801
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.440
You could have done that. You can do that in uh,
802
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.719
you know sixty seven.
803
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:18.639
With this version, well, it makes me think of like
804
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.239
other books kind of like what is it the Man
805
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:25.039
and Has Made which became not a Victorians, which that
806
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.800
was like a big that was a big thing that
807
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:29.000
was published under the counter.
808
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.480
They made into that hardcore movie, right they did.
809
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.679
Yeah, that's that's kind of how you had to do it.
810
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:36.800
And I think the image is based on a book too,
811
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.119
the Radley Metscer movie. The image I think that's based
812
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.440
on a French book too. So like there are definitely
813
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:46.400
other other, you know, works of literature that have been
814
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.679
translated into like really rough films. So it's just interesting
815
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:52.639
that the versions of Bennie Furs that I've watched are
816
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.679
not rough really, and so it's just it doesn't make
817
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:58.480
me wonder like how rough is the book? But yeah,
818
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:02.679
it doesn't sound like it was saying, you know.
819
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:05.559
I've never had an out of blasshes.
820
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:18.559
You fick Madre.
821
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:20.400
Hurry. Uh.
822
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.599
What do you think about this as an adaptation, Jane, Like,
823
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:29.519
what do you think they were going for here?
824
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:34.039
Well, I mean the movie barely has anything this this
825
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.679
version barely has anything at all to do with the book.
826
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.039
I think it was kind of more of a a
827
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.760
the choosing that, even as the title is kind of
828
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.519
more of like a catch all term or more of
829
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:48.679
a trying to reel in somebody if you like this,
830
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:52.039
then I know you'll like, you know what we're what
831
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:56.599
we're creating here. So yeah, so that was kind of interesting.
832
00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:59.519
But certainly, I mean, you know, the elements that remained
833
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:01.960
the same, things like, you know, the main character being
834
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:03.400
a submissive man and that.
835
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.599
Kind of thing. Yeah.
836
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.920
Yeah, I do think that this version has a lot
837
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.159
of foot fetish material.
838
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:13.360
I was gonna say I loved that instead of focusing
839
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:16.840
so much on the fur aspect, they really brought what
840
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:20.320
was a very current and very popular fetish with the
841
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.239
mid twentieth century, which is foot fetishism and you know,
842
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:27.760
stockings and extreme high heels, bigging and you know, and
843
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:29.840
the fact that he's a shoe salesman and we get
844
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.280
the great, the great scene and the shoe store. I
845
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.320
just love that scene so much. Real yeah, around and
846
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.360
all the women are. It looked like something straight out
847
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.480
of like an Eric Stanton comic or something. It was
848
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:41.079
really cool.
849
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:44.480
Casey, where was that shoe store? Did we identify that?
850
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:48.320
Yeah? Well, the interesting thing is so Capezzio. You see
851
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:50.639
the sign Capezio, and that was a real shoe store.
852
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:54.079
But part of me wonders if it was a set.
853
00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:56.119
I mean, that's the weird thing about the photography in
854
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:58.639
this movie. It is shot with like one light and
855
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.519
so it looks like everything is pitch black darkness at
856
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:03.960
night except for the one light that's focusing and everything.
857
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.280
So I don't know if they shot it at the
858
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:08.960
Capezio store in the middle of the night when it
859
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.159
was closed, or if that was just a set to
860
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:13.400
made up to look like a Capezio store. Well you
861
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:15.400
can see the boxes of shoes, So I'm just like,
862
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.280
that seems like a lot if they're they're gonna make
863
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:21.480
up a shoe store set. So I was googling Capeggio
864
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:23.320
and I think.
865
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.000
Like, I'm shocked so that they were. I was surprised
866
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:27.559
when I saw it.
867
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.639
I was very surprised. I was like, Oh, this is
868
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:32.639
a this is a, this is a place. At first
869
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.119
I thought I was made up, you know, because but
870
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.360
then I thought, well, no, they like to lease, they
871
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:40.840
can use a location. They'll definitely do it in New York.
872
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.400
And so at first I thought it was the Flagship Store,
873
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:44.960
which is in Manhattan, and I was like, I was
874
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:46.519
looking at the street and everything. I was like, this
875
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.719
doesn't look like this doesn't look like the Manhattan location.
876
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.639
So I think it's the Long Island location in Rockville
877
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.440
Center because that's where Marzana was originally from. So I
878
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.559
think he took everybody to Long Island, and I think
879
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:00.199
that is probably there's a house on Long Island where
880
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.519
I was shot, which that kind of makes sense to me.
881
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.800
But yeah, so I believe he took everyone to Long
882
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.679
Island and shot at the shoe store, maybe after dark,
883
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.840
like he shot the exterior of him coming in during
884
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.880
the day and then at night. I think he shot
885
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:17.039
the stuff at night. Probably.
886
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:18.480
Yeah.
887
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:22.199
Well, I'm always jealous of you know you New Yorker
888
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:25.639
because you always see locations that you've probably been to,
889
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:28.719
like the New York Public Library, Have you been there?
890
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:31.119
I meet I meet people all the time at Bryant
891
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:34.039
Park from meetings like I met Gerard Domiano there. The
892
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.840
last time I saw him Junior was at Bryant Park
893
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.679
and yeah, right around the corner NYPL. Yeah, and it's
894
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:43.159
so crazy how that location really hasn't changed that much.
895
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.760
Like there's some some locations changed like crazy in New
896
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.599
York obviously because the city changes in morphs and things.
897
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:52.199
But yeah, the NYPL Classic won't change. So I love
898
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.400
seeing it. And I think I can't believe that they
899
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:59.360
had the the brass ones to shoot at this location outdoors,
900
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:03.199
Like you know, there's a story where there's a story
901
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.840
where you know, they brought those they brought the women
902
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.000
to run towards him. It's like part of a fantasy
903
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.159
that he that he has of all these women. It
904
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.159
was supposed to be way more women than it was,
905
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.880
so it's not as impactful because it's what like four
906
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:17.599
or five women, So like, oh, just a lot of
907
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.840
women leave in the library. He wanted it to be
908
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:23.800
like a cavalcade of women, Yeah, a horde of women.
909
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:26.920
And apparently there's a sequence at the end in the
910
00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:29.119
montage you can see one of them, one of the
911
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.559
women is straddling the lion. Yeah, and he shot that
912
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.280
sequence and apparently there was like a cop there and
913
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:36.719
they just shot it in front of the cop and
914
00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:38.599
the cop didn't do anything. The cop was just kind
915
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.920
of like, Oh, this is really crazy, this this girl
916
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:44.199
and like, you know, her her bron panties on top
917
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:48.199
of the lion. I was like, that's nineteen sixty six, sixty.
918
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:51.239
Seven, they create that photo.
919
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:56.039
That's the Lindsay era. That's the that's the Lindsay mayor
920
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:59.039
may oiel. Yeah, that's that's what it was like to
921
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:01.320
be in New York when Lindsay was the mayor. Yeah,
922
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:03.960
you could do whatever you wanted. That was around the
923
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:05.960
time that the film commission was set up. I think
924
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.320
I think that was a Lindsay thing so before I
925
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:11.639
think that's before they started to be more you had
926
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:14.039
to get like you know, permits and stuff through the
927
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.960
film commission. I remember there's one exploctation we were at
928
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.480
the end of the movie it thanks Mayor Lindsay or like,
929
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:22.360
and I'm just like, that is crazy. Look, I know
930
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:24.880
you didn't get permits to shoot this, so it really
931
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.280
feels like a slap in the face of Mayor Lindsay, like, yeah,
932
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:32.079
we shot in your city, thank you for letting us yeah,
933
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:34.519
and there's some other locations too in the subways like
934
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:37.639
that too. Actually, it looks like it was shot on
935
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:40.760
like an abandoned car, abandoned subway car in the middle
936
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:43.119
of the night, and it's like that single light and
937
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.280
it kind of adds to that dreamlike effect. Though it's like,
938
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:49.800
is this actually happening? It just seems like this is
939
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.400
a part of a fantasy because it's not. In case,
940
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:57.320
it was right exactly, so it's yeah, it's really The
941
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.079
style in this movie is so interesting.
942
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:00.559
But that's what I like too, you know.
943
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:02.800
It introduces that aspect where it's like, well, this this
944
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:05.199
part of it, this was a fantasy at the beginning,
945
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:08.199
and then everything happens afterwards and you're kind of like, wait,
946
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:10.239
was this real too or not?
947
00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:14.679
Because it's all shot the same so it keeps it consistent. Yeah,
948
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:15.559
it's very surreal.
949
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:18.440
I bet that subway scene they just like went to
950
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.519
the far back and they just like found a car
951
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.199
that was unoccupied, just like, all right, let's shoot this
952
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:24.719
real quick.
953
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:25.880
I believe that.
954
00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:28.599
I love that subway scene and the part where when
955
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:30.280
they're walking up the steps and he leans down and
956
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:35.079
bites that woman's ankle. I just so well. I just thought,
957
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.599
you know, even if you're not a foot fetishes, even
958
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.199
if you don't care about feet and shoes, it's like,
959
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:41.840
how can you not look at the scene and not
960
00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:44.679
be like that is a pretty sexy moment right there.
961
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.920
I agree, I'm the most boring vanilla person on the planet,
962
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.519
but there is stuff that is fetish stuff in movies,
963
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.280
and I'm just like, God, that looks great, got so
964
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.440
yeah yeah. And then that's when it's like, you know,
965
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.960
I get it, I get it. I understand the communities
966
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:03.519
and the appeal and everything. It's just like it just
967
00:51:03.559 --> 00:51:06.400
won't click in my head for me to actively do
968
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.000
it myself. But seeing it the way that it's captured
969
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:12.039
cinematically is like, this is great. I totally understand the
970
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:15.079
appeal of this. Yeah, when it's done well, it really
971
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:19.280
it really captures that appeal really well. And that sequence
972
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:22.000
is great. Yeah, it's just kind of like, okay, yeah,
973
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.400
I get it. That's really great. Well.
974
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:29.599
Maybe that's like the question here with Marzano, like I
975
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:33.239
wonder how much of this was a personal fetish thing
976
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:37.039
or he's just appealing to a certain market.
977
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:37.679
I don't know.
978
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.760
I feel a lot of love put into it at
979
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:43.920
the very least. You know, I don't like to speculator
980
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:47.360
about people's you know, personal right.
981
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:47.679
But.
982
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.639
There was there was a lot of care put into
983
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:54.400
this movie, and I really appreciated that aspect of it.
984
00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:55.320
Yeah.
985
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:57.800
Yeah, I think looking at the history of how this
986
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:01.280
was made, I think we can see that he maybe
987
00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:03.960
felt like this was his shot. He's going to put
988
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.400
as much on on screen as he can, and that's
989
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:08.039
what we got.
990
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.360
Let's talk about Marzano here.
991
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:16.159
Very interesting character, very strange, very strange character, and not
992
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:20.280
just yeah, I mean strange, and that he was a
993
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:23.400
very I think you can kind of tell that he
994
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:27.400
is a very interesting and unique artist from this film.
995
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:29.639
And so I think when you're that kind of person
996
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:31.880
that has a very distinctive point of view and a
997
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:35.559
very distinctive way you want films to be done, kind
998
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:39.320
of like and not comparing them at all equally, but
999
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.719
kind of like an Orson Wells, where it's someone who's like,
1000
00:52:41.800 --> 00:52:43.880
this is how I want it, this is the way
1001
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:44.679
I want to do it.
1002
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:45.840
I've seen that.
1003
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:48.480
Yeah, So it's kind of like that when you're dealing
1004
00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:51.480
with somebody who has a distinctive point of view and
1005
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:53.599
a distinctive voice and they want to do something, but
1006
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:55.320
then it also makes it very difficult for them to
1007
00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:57.800
work with well with others. And that was kind of
1008
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.639
Marzano's problem, is that he couldn't really worked that well
1009
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:04.760
with others. But he made so many different short films
1010
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.920
and things over the years, which I don't know where
1011
00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:11.000
they went, which is very frustrating because so Barbara Ellen,
1012
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:13.239
the star of this. The first thing she ever did
1013
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:17.039
was a short called Barbara which Joseph Marzano did, which
1014
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:19.639
is an experimental short which is all just photos of
1015
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:21.679
her in different poses, and it's like a love letter
1016
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.519
to Barbara Ellen. And I'm dying to see that because
1017
00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:26.880
I love Barbara Ellen, you know, I'm just like I
1018
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.800
want it. And I was nineteen sixty three, so it
1019
00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:31.000
was like four years before this, So she was with
1020
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:33.519
him for a while doing stuff for him, and there
1021
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:35.960
must have been something about him that she trusted to
1022
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.639
stay with him through all these different projects, because she
1023
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:41.440
was with him before he started doing sexploitation, so she
1024
00:53:41.559 --> 00:53:43.719
must have trusted him to be like, sure, I'll follow
1025
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:47.360
you into sexploitation for cool at Baby and Venus and furs.
1026
00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:50.320
And then she did movies with him after, so it
1027
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.480
wasn't a breaking point for their relationship.
1028
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:55.840
That's the weirdest part of the Marzano story to me
1029
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.840
is her involvement, you know, in helping script this and
1030
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:01.760
you know, like you said, following him on a couple
1031
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.920
of projects, because you know, we hear all these stories
1032
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:09.320
about him from friends and co workers, and they do
1033
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:12.039
not have great things to say about him.
1034
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:14.880
The crews don't have the good stuff to say. I
1035
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:18.400
think that's the issue. Yeah, I think his his but
1036
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:21.599
his actors they followed him over the course of his
1037
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:24.440
entire career. They stayed with him. So something about his
1038
00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:27.280
work with the actors they trusted him. Something about the
1039
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:29.440
cruise They found him very difficult, And I wonder if
1040
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:32.480
it's because he wasn't really able to when you have
1041
00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:35.000
that many ideas and you're that creative, he might have
1042
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:37.360
just had a problem being able to express those so
1043
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:40.639
Cruise could help him bring those to life. That might
1044
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:42.920
have been the problem, you know, it might have been
1045
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:44.079
a communication issue.
1046
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:45.119
Yeah, that's a good point.
1047
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:47.800
But he worked very well with Lou Waldeck, who was
1048
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:49.760
the guy he worked with on Coola Baby, and he
1049
00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:53.159
wanted him to shoot this, and he was already shooting
1050
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:55.599
something else, so he had to get George Cirello. I
1051
00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:58.000
believe it was the cinematographer who we work with on
1052
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:01.079
a few other things. Waldeck great, but I think the
1053
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:03.440
photography in this didn't need to be Waldeck. I think
1054
00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:06.960
Sorella does a really good job. But Waldeck, even after
1055
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.880
he left Exploitation, continued working with him in his independent films.
1056
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.320
So yeah, he made good connections with people. I think
1057
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:17.199
it was just I think the people who were in
1058
00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:20.679
charge of things in terms of like financing and distribution,
1059
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:23.800
they did not get along with him. So you know,
1060
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:26.440
you kind of have to deal with these very difficult
1061
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:30.920
egomaniacs in production and distribution, and when you have an
1062
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:33.480
ego like him, but he can back as ego up
1063
00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:35.400
these other people in the film business. You know, they
1064
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.000
have money and the money is the ego.
1065
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:42.280
Yeah, we'll have to get Jane Cool at Baby. I
1066
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:44.400
think she might like that one. It's a little cool.
1067
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.079
The Baby's not bad cool here, Yeah, yeah.
1068
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:51.800
I seen that one yet, Yeah.
1069
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.719
It's not bad. I would think Mini Skirt Love. I
1070
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:57.079
prefer Mini Skirt Love just because well that stars Janet Bansa,
1071
00:55:57.199 --> 00:55:59.679
who is one of the one of the doms in
1072
00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:03.159
this She so she has she She's in Miniskirt Love.
1073
00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:05.840
She plays an aunt took home to take care of
1074
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:09.119
her nephew and they fall in love and then yeah,
1075
00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:11.360
I mean she's a little young to be playing that part,
1076
00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:15.639
but uh and cool at baby. Yeah, it's like it's
1077
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:18.760
like a big blackmail story with Barbara Ellen is a
1078
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:24.199
blackmail victim of uh yeah, this guy who's in the syndicate. Yeah,
1079
00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:25.440
she's good in it, of course.
1080
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:26.079
Yeah.
1081
00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:26.639
Yeah.
1082
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:28.679
What did you think about the lead Barbara Allen in
1083
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.960
this Jane? I mean, she doesn't get I think it
1084
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:36.440
was noted in a story as well that she refused
1085
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:39.440
to do nudity. But you know, when I think back
1086
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:41.360
at the film, I'm like, oh, I had to think
1087
00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:41.679
about it.
1088
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:42.800
Wait, did she get nude or not?
1089
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:45.880
But she doesn't, but she's it's risky enough where you
1090
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.679
kind of think she did, you know, Yeah, yeah.
1091
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.559
Well yeah, I mean there were so many parts of
1092
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:52.840
this movie where I was like surprised by how much
1093
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:55.719
how far they were going through nineteen sixty seven kind of.
1094
00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:59.679
But yeah, I really liked her. I liked everybody in
1095
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:06.079
this everybody seemed, you know, which was nice.
1096
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.679
Yeah, that well, Barbara. The thing about Barbi, yeah, I
1097
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:12.239
guess I forgot she didn't ununity either. I think because
1098
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:17.360
she is so captivating as a lead that I'm I
1099
00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:20.320
actually kind of wasn't even expecting her to dimunity because
1100
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:22.360
the fact that he was so enamored of her was like, yeah,
1101
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:24.880
I get it, like she's yes, she's great. I would
1102
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:27.719
I would get in her cargo wherever she wanted to, like,
1103
00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:32.039
you know, I you know, and I yeah, yeah, I
1104
00:57:32.079 --> 00:57:34.920
think he casts very well. But also the fact that
1105
00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:38.239
she that she wrote it or helped him write it,
1106
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:40.960
meant that she helped to create this character, that she
1107
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.480
knew that she could do what she wanted with this character, so.
1108
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:44.599
She can call the shots a bit.
1109
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:46.920
Yeah, yes, so she knew I don't have to do
1110
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.679
nunity because there's gonna be other people to do that.
1111
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:52.480
I will just say the central figure that is his obsession,
1112
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.079
and that's perfectly fine, you know.
1113
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:59.119
Which, and truthfully, being kind of like the dominant figure there,
1114
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:01.760
it's better that she's that she's not being nude, you know.
1115
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:04.000
It kind of adds a little something to the character too.
1116
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:08.880
I think, yeah, he does more disrobing than she does,
1117
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:13.079
like you know, he really is flipped, And I'm like, great,
1118
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.840
yeah I was, we'll go into it. But I was
1119
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:19.360
researching this guy and I found him and he died
1120
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:21.760
a couple of years ago during COVID at ninety one
1121
00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:28.239
years old. A competitive bodybuilder competed in Mister Universe. Shep Wild,
1122
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:32.400
Yes he has. Apparently he told stories about making movies
1123
00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.360
to his his friends and family, and I'm just like,
1124
00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:37.239
where was I? So I need to reach out to
1125
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:40.000
his family, his family and see. Also, he apparently was
1126
00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:45.519
a very popular model at like like around New York,
1127
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.079
so that I think you're talking about, yes, but also
1128
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:51.400
photography clubs. So then I'm kind of like, Okay, well
1129
00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:53.840
where are the photos of him? Because it's I can't
1130
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.119
find any photos of him at least under that under
1131
00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:59.519
his real name. So I'm like, did he work with
1132
00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:03.760
any of the New York based like fetish photographers that
1133
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:04.440
I know of?
1134
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:04.679
That?
1135
00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:06.960
Like, I think Tashin's released a bunch of those two.
1136
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:08.679
So now I need to go look in all those
1137
00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:10.960
books that I have in my on my bookshelf and
1138
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:17.599
see if I can spotsheit Wild maybe Oh sure, yes,
1139
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:20.559
I mean I look through them anyway, but yeah, any
1140
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:25.559
reason to go back then, sure, but he was older
1141
00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:29.000
when he did this. He and Bella Donna, who is
1142
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.199
also in this movie. She so, Bella Donna is the
1143
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:36.039
actress that's straddling the lion, and she's a little older.
1144
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:37.760
She's also one of the doms in this too with
1145
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:41.840
Janet Bansit. So she was born in nineteen twenty four,
1146
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:45.639
so in this movie she's forty three years old. And
1147
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:50.480
she was very into like health foods and alternative medicine,
1148
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:54.559
so she doesn't look forty three like she She's able
1149
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:58.199
to run with these twenty year olds and have fun,
1150
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:00.599
and she was very She's very popular with director named
1151
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.119
Joe Sarno, so I was able to find her. Unfortunately
1152
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.880
she passed away. But she was like a She was
1153
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:09.119
a model in Hollywood, Like she went out on dates
1154
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.719
with like Rock Hudson and stuff in the fifties before
1155
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:14.800
she came out to New York to do sexploitation. And
1156
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.639
I actually just emailed her daughter before we started recording,
1157
01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:19.639
and I was like, I want to know about Wait,
1158
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:20.679
your mom's modeling.
1159
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:23.519
Are you saying she was a beard to Rock Hudson?
1160
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:27.280
Yes, but she also dated some other people. I'm trying
1161
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:30.119
to remember now because there was a So she's originally
1162
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:33.880
from Dayton, Ohio, and she relocated to New York and
1163
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:36.599
then in nineteen eighty one she relocated at Dateton, Ohio.
1164
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:39.280
And there's an interview she said she did lots of
1165
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:41.880
studio publicity stuff with the likes of Tony Curtis and
1166
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.639
Rock Hudson, and then she came to New York and
1167
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:47.280
she modeled for twenty years, and there's no mention of
1168
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:50.920
the films in there, but you know, that's kind of
1169
01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:53.199
what she did. So she came back to Daton, Ohio
1170
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:56.159
and worked at a natural a natural food place before
1171
01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:59.159
she died in twenty thirteen. But yeah, I emailed her
1172
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:00.719
daughter and I was like, I'd like to know about
1173
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:04.440
your mom's modeling, And yeah, I left it at that
1174
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:06.360
because when you were reaching out to family members and
1175
01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:09.800
family members might not know that that included films. So
1176
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:12.920
I just wanted to know about the modeling. So we'll
1177
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:13.760
see where that goes.
1178
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:17.519
So shep Wilde was a like a rot. Was it
1179
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:20.320
like erotic stuff? Do you think is modeling work?
1180
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.360
I mean, if it was, if he was like a
1181
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:26.400
regular bodybuilder, like he competed for Mister Universe, he competed
1182
01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:30.199
for oh gosh, what else, mister Eastern North America. He
1183
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:33.159
was in the army. He was also a professional massage
1184
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:36.000
therapists and he was like a go to physical physical
1185
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.880
director to the stars. Because I found an advertisement in
1186
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:42.920
nineteen fifty seven Billboard which has massage, reduce and relax
1187
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.960
scientific treatment in his real name in New York. So
1188
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:49.280
when he's doing that massage in the film, yeah, that's
1189
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.079
what he did. Yeah. So when he wasn't, when he
1190
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:54.880
wasn't doing modeling work for photography and artists and stuff
1191
01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:59.920
like that, he was a very popular massure for people apparently.
1192
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:04.239
So his obituary is interesting. So the last line of
1193
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.880
the obituary that his family put together Joe lived, his
1194
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:12.280
name was Joe Joe koit Tila was his real name.
1195
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:16.719
Born in nineteen twenty nine, So again he is thirty
1196
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.000
nine when he did this, thirty eight, so a little older.
1197
01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:23.360
For this film says Joe lived a full and interesting
1198
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.400
life for which he loved to tell stories about. He
1199
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:28.199
loved a joke and make people laugh. He was always positive.
1200
01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:31.000
Joe never complained about anything, not even when he should have.
1201
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:34.599
And then his in laws commented in this obituary and said,
1202
01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:37.400
Joe was a positive and kind man. We enjoyed his company,
1203
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.480
his stories of the past, his passion for fitness, and
1204
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:42.920
his voracious appetite. He always talked about his acting career,
1205
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:46.000
his love for Marily Minuro, Frank Sinatra, and the celebrities
1206
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.119
he met as a masseuse. He will be sorely missed.
1207
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:51.960
So let's sweet massage marily Monroe and Frank Sinatra and
1208
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.800
other people. But his acting career, this is his acting career.
1209
01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:59.280
You know he did this. He was in too, Joe
1210
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.119
Sarno movie. He was in Flying Now Pay Later, So
1211
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:04.159
maybe he knew the directed that. We're trying to figure
1212
01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:04.920
that out, Gentry.
1213
01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:06.800
I think he actually talks in that. I think he's
1214
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:09.280
just the man in the dream, right, yeah, just in
1215
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:10.119
the clouds.
1216
01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:13.440
Yeah, but he's in it. So it sounds like you
1217
01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:14.880
remembered stuff. So I need to reach out to the
1218
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:18.519
kids to see. Yeah, if he talked that much, then
1219
01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:22.039
they have probably have stories they could share. Because I'm
1220
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:24.519
obsessed with himous for obviously.
1221
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:26.960
I mean even as a even as a straight man.
1222
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:29.840
I want to see his early photos just to see
1223
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:33.599
too how they were set up. Like I mean, Jane,
1224
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:37.079
what was what would be the market for back then?
1225
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:39.880
What was out there for? Like, you know, if a
1226
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:44.119
guy wanted to see shep wild, you know, shirtless in
1227
01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:46.679
a you know, a magazine, where would you find that?
1228
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:49.559
I mean there were a lot of bodybuilder magazines.
1229
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:52.519
It would be marketed for like it would be marketed
1230
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:56.840
as a bodybuilding magazine, but it would be yeah, understood
1231
01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:59.840
that it was marketed also for like the gay community.
1232
01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:03.239
Right exactly, Yeah, it's coded yeah.
1233
01:04:04.519 --> 01:04:08.760
Exactly. And then you know also I think obviously I
1234
01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:11.119
think Casey could speak more on this, but you know,
1235
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:15.800
in the nineteen fifties there were some gay magazines that
1236
01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:20.760
were brought before the Supreme Court for obscenity. In the
1237
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:23.039
most famous case would be One magazine, which is kind
1238
01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:25.679
of seen as as I don't know, is it the
1239
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:28.840
first casey or one of the first homo file?
1240
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:31.760
Yeah, yeah, homo file was the word they liked to
1241
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.239
use too. Yeah, it was like, yeah, it was very
1242
01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:35.960
that and I think it was that was the first
1243
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.559
case of its type. I think they were trying to
1244
01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:40.079
make an example of it, and they won the case.
1245
01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:40.679
I mean they.
1246
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:44.360
This is not obscene. This can go through the mail,
1247
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:47.440
it can retain its mailing privileges and all of that.
1248
01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:51.400
So you know, now one magazines, the issues that I've
1249
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:54.519
seen don't have you know, sexy photos inside of them
1250
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.519
of bodybuilders. But yeah, that's just kind of another example
1251
01:04:57.559 --> 01:04:59.760
of the kind of material that was out there for
1252
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:03.920
FORK And then we're also some lesbian magazines as well,
1253
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:05.639
but yeah, that's the type of material that was.
1254
01:05:05.679 --> 01:05:11.079
In Yeah, the big one I know that is Bob Meser,
1255
01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:13.800
but that there are so many more other than Bob Meser.
1256
01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:16.599
I mean, Bob Meser was Athletic Model Guild, but there
1257
01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:19.559
were New York photographers, there were Florida photographer. It was
1258
01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:21.880
kind of like exploitation. They had them, They had you
1259
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:25.880
had photographers in all the major metro areas, not just Hollywood.
1260
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:28.599
But that's and that's why I'm kind of that's why
1261
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:30.480
I'm dying to talk to his kids because I'm like,
1262
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:34.239
and also googling that very specific name, it doesn't come
1263
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:36.039
up with a lot. So I'm just like, is this
1264
01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:40.800
an undiscovered gem that like the bodybuilding fetish community doesn't
1265
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:44.119
even know about? Like if there's photos, I know a
1266
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:46.199
lot of men that would want to see them. So
1267
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:49.840
maybe it's time to get on that trying to you know.
1268
01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:52.519
I bet you'll be able if you can find photos.
1269
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:54.239
I bet there will be one with him in that
1270
01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.599
same Tarzan underwear.
1271
01:05:57.079 --> 01:05:59.599
I bet I bet that was in his uh, in
1272
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:00.360
his real rotation.
1273
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:04.920
We can also, I hope so yes, I hope that
1274
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:08.519
he that was part of his personal wardrobe. Yeah, so yeah,
1275
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:09.920
he just took it with him every where he went.
1276
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:13.280
You are the one who desires.
1277
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:15.800
We are the ones who are desired.
1278
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.000
This is woman's entire advantage, with something in you that
1279
01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:20.480
makes me want to punish you.
1280
01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:21.840
Dominate you.
1281
01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:23.559
You shall be bound.
1282
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:30.559
With stalking, sound and helpless, gad trodden, unload till you
1283
01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:31.400
can love.
1284
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:36.679
Then you may kiss my breast, my mouth, But first.
1285
01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:39.599
My told you should be hotly and you shall feel
1286
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:50.159
the pressure of mine without mercy, No, no losing.
1287
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:54.480
Okay, what else do we want to cover?
1288
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:55.199
On Marzano?
1289
01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:59.440
I mean, oh yeah, I kind of detoured. Sorry, sorry,
1290
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:04.079
bead on it. Uh And Sheck Wilde distracted me. Well,
1291
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:05.639
the big thing that he did was a movie called
1292
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:08.239
Man Outside, and that was kind of his calling card.
1293
01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:10.880
He did that in nineteen sixty five and that was
1294
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:14.800
Barbara Allen was involved with that. The drag queen in
1295
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:17.920
this which is Bob what's his face and his wife
1296
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.039
were involved with that. A lot of the people that
1297
01:07:20.119 --> 01:07:22.079
he took and a lot of the cast and cool
1298
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:24.760
At Baby were also in that. So he he used
1299
01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:26.440
that as his calling card to try to be like, well,
1300
01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:28.920
I can make a movie, and I can do it cheaply.
1301
01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:31.199
I don't know, well, yeah, I don't even know where
1302
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:32.360
to get a hold of it. A lot of his
1303
01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:34.320
I don't know where his stuff went. I'd have to
1304
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:37.760
reach out to probably Nathan Shift for that, because Nathan
1305
01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:39.760
Shift sounds like the person who was the closest to
1306
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:45.519
him before he passed away. But yeah, so cool At
1307
01:07:45.559 --> 01:07:48.280
Baby was his first one, and that was kind of
1308
01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:52.320
his introductionist exploitation. And I think that the producer Luke
1309
01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:54.000
Kampa on that was so impressed by the way he
1310
01:07:54.039 --> 01:07:56.719
was able to do stuff really quickly and efficiently on
1311
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.639
a low budget. He was kind of like, Okay, go
1312
01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:01.280
nuts with this movie. Here's ten k. You can do
1313
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:03.679
any movie you want. He brought it in under budget.
1314
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:05.719
He got ten k I think it was he got
1315
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.679
in for eighty five fifty was the final budget on that,
1316
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:12.559
which is impressive for a movie that looks this good
1317
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:15.840
that it's that cheap. But yeah, he eventually of Venus
1318
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:18.680
and First. Lu Campa, his producer, I think, got so
1319
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:20.399
fed up with him because he had a lot of
1320
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:23.199
great ideas but not the budget of the ability to
1321
01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:26.880
get them done efficiently or quickly. So he brought it
1322
01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:28.520
in under budget, but there was still a lot of
1323
01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:30.640
stuff that he still wanted to do that he couldn't do.
1324
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:33.920
So this is kind of It's not one hundred percent
1325
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:35.840
of the movie he wanted to do, but it's close.
1326
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:38.840
But I think his issues with Lukampa led to Luke
1327
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:40.760
Caampa and not wanted to work with him, And I
1328
01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:42.840
think he used Venus and First as another calling card
1329
01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:45.800
to go to other distributors. He went to Sam Lake
1330
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.439
and then he went to Joseph Brenner, and the Brenner
1331
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:52.119
meeting was disastrous, and so that was it. He had
1332
01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:53.800
Like I think Joe Brenner kicked him out of his
1333
01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:55.479
office and was like, I don't know who you think
1334
01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:57.520
you are, a get out of my office. And Joe, Yeah,
1335
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:01.640
Joe Brenner notoriously difficult anyway, so not the best producer.
1336
01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:03.399
Maybe he should have probably gone to stand board and
1337
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.399
stand Bordon might have been more, might have been nicer
1338
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:06.720
to him.
1339
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:07.840
Wasn't there something in that?
1340
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:08.079
Yeah?
1341
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:09.720
I was in Brenner's office.
1342
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.000
He was acting all high and mighty, saying like, yes,
1343
01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:15.359
I don't pull my own cable, other people do that,
1344
01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:17.000
and kind of acting like no.
1345
01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:20.560
He told he told him, you'll have to pull your
1346
01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:23.439
weight on my set. He told the distributor, Joe Brenner,
1347
01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:25.760
you will have to help me, and he said, I
1348
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:29.560
don't do that. He's like, no, no, I won't, and
1349
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:31.159
I think kicked him out of the office. He's like,
1350
01:09:31.239 --> 01:09:33.560
that's not how this business works. You need to crank
1351
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:36.159
these out quick because we have product to get into
1352
01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:38.319
the theaters. We need to we have a schedule. We
1353
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:41.239
got to get stuff in there while the iron's hot.
1354
01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:44.840
And uh, yeah, Marzano that his temperament was not made
1355
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:48.079
for this business. He really wasn't. I wish he'd made
1356
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:51.800
more movies like this that weren't necessarily. It makes me
1357
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:53.680
wonder what he could do if he didn't have to
1358
01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:56.199
deal with like market demands, you know, for these, Like
1359
01:09:56.239 --> 01:10:00.159
if he wanted to do another Marzano movie. Like, I
1360
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:02.520
just wonder if he could have done like something artsy,
1361
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:05.840
I don't know, like a Jack Smith maybe, or there
1362
01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:08.159
are a lot of like independent filmmakers in New York.
1363
01:10:08.239 --> 01:10:12.279
I mean, the Warhol years were happening then, and I
1364
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:15.800
just think he was very difficult, you know. I think
1365
01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:16.880
he's very difficult to deal with.
1366
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:21.199
Yeah, he was apparently really proud of that scene, the
1367
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:25.479
bathtub milk scene. On rewatching it, it's like it's very
1368
01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:28.039
nicely framed, but I don't know, it doesn't stand out
1369
01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:29.720
that much to me. I don't know why he was
1370
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:30.720
so proud of that one.
1371
01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:33.960
I think, you know, sometimes there are directors who really
1372
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.039
will remember things a certain way. Yeah, that might be
1373
01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:39.199
what it is, or he remembered it so vividly in
1374
01:10:39.239 --> 01:10:42.039
his head because there's that's another story that was told
1375
01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:45.279
for years. He knew that Harry Novak bought the movie,
1376
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:45.880
so he's trying to.
1377
01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:48.479
Get copies of his movie in it for so long.
1378
01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:50.880
And he I don't think I think it took him
1379
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:53.479
forever to finally get copies of them, if he ever did. So,
1380
01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:56.640
it's possible he's remembering something the way it was on
1381
01:10:56.720 --> 01:10:59.399
the set or the way he saw theatrically and then
1382
01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:02.720
hadn't read visited for like forty years before he passed away.
1383
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:06.399
Like you know, so in that scene, yeah, Barbara Allen
1384
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:09.520
has like the mask on. Is there any examples that
1385
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:11.920
you can think of, Jane, like in magazines, like was
1386
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:12.880
that a common thing?
1387
01:11:13.319 --> 01:11:13.439
Oh?
1388
01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:18.560
Yeah, especially if you see photos from the nineteenth century
1389
01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:21.880
or the very early twentieth century, like up to you know,
1390
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:24.840
the nineteen thirties and forties, a lot the little black
1391
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:28.840
eye mask is is pretty iconic. You know, typically it
1392
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:30.359
was just used as a way to kind of hide
1393
01:11:30.399 --> 01:11:34.479
somebody's identity, at least that's the assumption you know people
1394
01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:38.279
that maybe and the reason it was particularly in that
1395
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:40.880
early part is because you know, it was much less
1396
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:44.920
common for people to be posing nude or to be Yeah, yeah,
1397
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:47.600
of course modeling for these sort of risk a photographs,
1398
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:49.399
and there were there was a potential to get a
1399
01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:50.239
lot more trouble too.
1400
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:52.640
Who was that girl in that scene, Casey, did you
1401
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:55.840
identify her that sort of like fuller figured girl in
1402
01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:56.600
the bathtub you.
1403
01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:57.279
Know what I'm talking about?
1404
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:01.319
Blond, but I do, Yeah, the blonde. It wasn't It
1405
01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:04.479
wasn't Yolanda and a Wi. I don't think it's because
1406
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.920
Yolanda is in this. Yolanda Siniorrelli is the in the
1407
01:12:07.960 --> 01:12:10.399
shoe store, but then she shows up later as as
1408
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:14.760
a blonde like in the forest with Barbara Ellen. She
1409
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:17.079
was like nineteen when she did this movie, which is crazy,
1410
01:12:18.439 --> 01:12:19.000
very young.
1411
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:22.119
But there's a lot of different body types in this movie.
1412
01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:24.479
I don't think there's any I don't think there's any.
1413
01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:27.159
Black women in this that I spotted in the background.
1414
01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:31.159
No Natara, no Natara, that would have to think it
1415
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:34.520
was I think so it would have been helpful. Yeah,
1416
01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:38.439
but I'm also surprised by the drag in this, which
1417
01:12:38.479 --> 01:12:45.600
is interesting. Yeah, because when I when you're watching movies
1418
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:47.600
like this, like like when we cover all these different
1419
01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:51.399
expotation movies, like we know who the general target audience
1420
01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:53.720
is for. It's for like especially in this era, it's
1421
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:56.479
like straight dude who fought in World War two, like,
1422
01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:59.960
so like you know, it's old, it's old, pasty baby boomer,
1423
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.600
male baby boomers. So then you realize, like, okay, so
1424
01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:07.039
that's the audience. And then they have to see this
1425
01:13:07.159 --> 01:13:09.439
massage scene and then they have to see a drag
1426
01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:14.119
performer is that scene as an element of humor in
1427
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:17.199
the film or is that scene as like another another
1428
01:13:17.239 --> 01:13:20.039
fetish because there were like cross stressing magazines and things
1429
01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:21.800
I think, right, Jane around that time.
1430
01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:25.720
Absolutely yes. In fact, one of the major publishers, Leonard Bertman,
1431
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:30.000
who you guys know produced Satan and High Heels. Bertman
1432
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:32.880
had a magazine called Female Mimics for a number of
1433
01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:37.199
years during this year sixties, and Female Mimics was actually
1434
01:13:37.199 --> 01:13:40.640
a pretty sensitively done magazine. I really like it has
1435
01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:44.840
some great imagery and it has some great uh some
1436
01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:49.199
performers that are kind of still known today. But yeah,
1437
01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:51.560
I didn't feel like it was I didn't feel like
1438
01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:55.000
the drag and stuff was added in as a humor element.
1439
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:58.119
In fact, one of the things that really impressed me
1440
01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.079
about this movie was that it felt almost like looking
1441
01:14:01.159 --> 01:14:05.560
at a fetish magazine like Bizarre, which was John Willie's magazine,
1442
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:09.279
and one of the things he focused on with Bizarre
1443
01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:12.439
was covering a wide range of fetishes. He always said,
1444
01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:16.039
you know, there's what I like. He was personally interested
1445
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.640
in high heels and stockings and bondage, but he didn't
1446
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:22.359
limit the magazine to that. He tried to have as
1447
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:24.880
broad appeal as possible. And that's kind of what I
1448
01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:27.840
felt like this movie was doing. Adding in all this
1449
01:14:27.960 --> 01:14:32.239
different stuff. It's almost like a little smorgas board for
1450
01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:34.760
whoever might be in the audience, and maybe you even
1451
01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:37.039
find something new that you didn't know you liked because
1452
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.279
you hadn't been exposed to it before. I just I
1453
01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:40.359
really liked that element.
1454
01:14:40.680 --> 01:14:44.079
Yeah, absolutely, well. Then I also well, and I don't know,
1455
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:47.319
is there food in this too? Is there like food
1456
01:14:47.319 --> 01:14:50.439
fetish stuff in this sort of there might be the
1457
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:53.920
party scene that maybe a little Yeah, I mean, it
1458
01:14:53.960 --> 01:14:57.039
really does feel like there's just you're right, it is
1459
01:14:57.119 --> 01:14:58.960
just like a little bit of everything. It is like
1460
01:14:59.319 --> 01:15:01.439
it is like a board or like a it's like
1461
01:15:01.479 --> 01:15:04.920
a fetish shark utery, yeah something, you know. It's like,
1462
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:06.520
let's get a little of this, a little of that,
1463
01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:09.079
see where it goes. And it all really works all
1464
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:12.600
really well together. Like it doesn't stop cold or feel awkward.
1465
01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:15.640
It doesn't. It also does not feel like something that
1466
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:18.279
a novice is just throwing into a movie to meet
1467
01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:19.119
a market demand.
1468
01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:22.600
Right, right, let's see what it didn't have that feel?
1469
01:15:22.680 --> 01:15:25.560
I agree, Yeah, it feels like something that he was
1470
01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:28.000
at the very least for he was at least on
1471
01:15:28.039 --> 01:15:31.359
a surface level, familiar with all of it enough to
1472
01:15:31.439 --> 01:15:36.119
make it feel authentic in this and not like, you know, pretend.
1473
01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:40.279
Obviously it's all pretend, but it definitely doesn't feel like, Okay, well,
1474
01:15:40.399 --> 01:15:43.000
this audience is going to expect like this lesbian scene,
1475
01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:46.119
so let's throw it in there. Like everything really merges
1476
01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:51.720
really well together as an experience, which is not common.
1477
01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:56.359
It kind of adds to that off center feel where
1478
01:15:57.479 --> 01:16:00.279
or unbalanced, you know, like the main character is of
1479
01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:02.640
thinking what the hell is you know, going on and
1480
01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:05.279
looking from room to room and being startled. It kind
1481
01:16:05.279 --> 01:16:07.840
of gives the viewer that same field that the character
1482
01:16:07.960 --> 01:16:08.800
is experiencing.
1483
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:12.800
Yeah, it's like an erotic funhouse. Yeah, yeah, right.
1484
01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:15.880
But I also think it's interesting because at this time,
1485
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:18.760
like well this is sixty seven, so we're dealing with
1486
01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:22.840
we're like at the start of the really rough Ruffies
1487
01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:26.880
where it really is about hurting women and punishing women.
1488
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:29.800
Because before that, the new dqts are kind of like
1489
01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:32.039
looking at the women, and so the Ruffies are the
1490
01:16:32.079 --> 01:16:33.680
opposite of that. It's like, well, we don't want to
1491
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:37.000
just look at women. You would think the natural progression
1492
01:16:37.079 --> 01:16:38.479
is well, now I want to have sex with this
1493
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:40.399
woman because I've been looking at her. No's you want
1494
01:16:40.399 --> 01:16:43.119
to punish this woman for whatever reason. It's all about punishment.
1495
01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:46.840
And it's interesting because this movie doesn't really have that.
1496
01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:49.960
It has a lot more women in positions of power,
1497
01:16:50.439 --> 01:16:52.880
and not the kind of thing where it's like Findlay,
1498
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:56.960
where it's a central misogynist who is targeting women and
1499
01:16:57.000 --> 01:17:00.760
brutally killing them like it's it's very interesting to note
1500
01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:04.079
that this film doesn't want to take that route, which
1501
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:07.439
is expected, and as the market is turning in that direction.
1502
01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:10.520
Yeah, I mean the last shot of the movie is
1503
01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:13.920
is you know the woman is still alive? Thank god? Right,
1504
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:15.560
And a lot of these movies they're not.
1505
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:21.199
So yes, yeah, sometimes there are no survivors like touts
1506
01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:25.399
are for flash and cursive for flash, right, exactly, rough stuff.
1507
01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:29.760
I keep thinking of last night, all the things you
1508
01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:33.720
get to the way you began to take the coursely.
1509
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:34.199
Like a really.
1510
01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:41.279
Okay, see, I'm so unhappy news.
1511
01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:45.199
I've always been always.
1512
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:51.439
Oho. I guess I haven't been much help and I
1513
01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:52.720
long to be something.
1514
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:54.239
Better, but I just can't help myself.
1515
01:17:57.079 --> 01:17:58.159
Something very simple for.
1516
01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:02.159
You and or I weakness techniques, you want to shoot
1517
01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.479
both dominate you.
1518
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:08.560
Let's forget about all of that.
1519
01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:09.000
Now.
1520
01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:15.039
What do you think about the music in this movie
1521
01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:20.520
Romeo and Juliet theme, No.
1522
01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:24.680
Not for me. It adds that level of like not sophistication,
1523
01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:28.000
but it adds like a level of culture that you
1524
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:32.880
feel like it was selected intentionally sort of because Romeo
1525
01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:35.319
and Juliet is kind of like I think the idea
1526
01:18:35.319 --> 01:18:37.000
of Romeo and Juliet is that it's like a fan
1527
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:39.640
of romantic fantasy, when in reality it is absolutely not.
1528
01:18:39.880 --> 01:18:42.359
It is like it is a tragedy. People reference Romeo
1529
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:45.039
and Juliet is like, oh my god, young love. It's like, no,
1530
01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:48.640
it is awful. It ends very brutally, like I think
1531
01:18:48.800 --> 01:18:51.720
we'll forget that. So I think that it was probably
1532
01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:55.840
done intentionally. It wasn't. It doesn't feel like lazily picked
1533
01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:58.800
out of like a stack of classical musical piece.
1534
01:19:00.079 --> 01:19:00.720
For me anyway.
1535
01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:04.199
Yeah, And the garage music is in all three of
1536
01:19:04.239 --> 01:19:07.760
the lu Kampa ones, So it's in Cooler Baby, and
1537
01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:11.279
it's in Miniskirt Love. That garage music that plays throughout
1538
01:19:12.039 --> 01:19:14.119
and I don't know where that came from. That's another
1539
01:19:14.279 --> 01:19:16.399
we kept running into this with these movies where it's
1540
01:19:16.479 --> 01:19:18.159
music that we love and we don't know where it
1541
01:19:18.199 --> 01:19:21.920
came from because we can't we can't find the library
1542
01:19:22.039 --> 01:19:24.039
music that it that it's from.
1543
01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:26.560
And it doesn't seem to be like licensed anywhere, so
1544
01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:28.039
nobody copyrights it.
1545
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:29.399
Like this strikes us.
1546
01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:32.199
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the thing. That's funny. It's the
1547
01:19:32.239 --> 01:19:35.479
funny thing, Jane. So he puts he uploads these episodes
1548
01:19:35.479 --> 01:19:38.439
to YouTube and they like to do copyright strikes and say,
1549
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.680
you have this music in this episode that's copyrighted. So
1550
01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:44.720
that's how we're able to identify certain library pieces because
1551
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:48.319
the library companies now are making them available for streaming
1552
01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:52.439
and that includes YouTube, so they'll say, hey, we flagg
1553
01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:55.640
this old sixties library music that like Sony owns now.
1554
01:19:56.199 --> 01:20:03.239
So that's how we know what certain psalms are sometimes about.
1555
01:20:03.720 --> 01:20:06.800
Yeah, yeah it is.
1556
01:20:07.079 --> 01:20:09.119
Well, I mean I used to zam a lot of
1557
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:11.159
the time. But you know, there are certain libraries that
1558
01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:14.720
just aren't available. So we'll just you know, KPM is available,
1559
01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:18.479
Selected sound is available, there's definitely Library Chappelle is largely available,
1560
01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:20.920
but there's there must be little, tiny libraries that we're
1561
01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:24.520
not aware of that just have not been reissued or
1562
01:20:24.560 --> 01:20:27.359
they're not streaming anywhere, so we keep running into that.
1563
01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:30.199
Talked about Barbara Ellen a bit. I don't know if
1564
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:33.600
there's anything more to cover with her talked about shep Wild.
1565
01:20:34.119 --> 01:20:35.800
I wish there was more to talk about with Barbara
1566
01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:38.279
Ellen because I just find her so fascinating. But with
1567
01:20:38.359 --> 01:20:41.119
that name, I feel like Barbara Ellen. I feel like
1568
01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:42.880
Ellen was probably her middle name, but we don't know
1569
01:20:42.920 --> 01:20:45.560
her last name, so it's very difficult to research her.
1570
01:20:45.840 --> 01:20:48.279
We know that she was married because her husband didn't
1571
01:20:48.680 --> 01:20:51.399
really want her to do nudity in venus and furs,
1572
01:20:52.159 --> 01:20:54.079
and that's kind of the thing where I wish that
1573
01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:58.399
somebody had asked Marzano that question. You know, maybe Nathan
1574
01:20:58.439 --> 01:21:01.279
Schiff knows, So that's some thing. If we follow up
1575
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:03.920
with Nathan Schiff, who knew Marzano, maybe he remembers who
1576
01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:06.840
she was. It's because of the Marzano interview that I
1577
01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:10.039
was able to pinpoint Bella Donna's real name and find
1578
01:21:10.079 --> 01:21:13.279
her and find pictures of her in the newspaper and
1579
01:21:13.279 --> 01:21:15.640
stuff from her modeling days in the fifties and sixties.
1580
01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:18.359
So it doesn't make me it does make me wonder
1581
01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:21.039
we keep bumping into this with with people in sexpotation
1582
01:21:21.079 --> 01:21:23.840
because the talent releases are long gone and there's a
1583
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:26.640
lot of people obviously that produce these movies that aren't
1584
01:21:26.680 --> 01:21:30.479
around anymore. So I can't really ask for real names.
1585
01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:34.279
We have to kind of hope and pray somebody remembers Yolanda.
1586
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:37.720
Yeah, she's one of the girls here. She's the one
1587
01:21:37.760 --> 01:21:40.199
trying on the shoes. Yeah, I definitely recognize her at
1588
01:21:40.199 --> 01:21:41.960
the beginning when she's trying the shoes.
1589
01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:43.680
Great, she's so good.
1590
01:21:43.960 --> 01:21:46.800
She's back in the news now though, because a new
1591
01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:51.479
documentary about her just premiered south By Southwest this year. Yes, yes,
1592
01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:55.439
so the thing so she shortly after making this movie.
1593
01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:59.239
She's very She was like twenty. She met the guy
1594
01:21:59.359 --> 01:22:05.680
who invented the sea monkeys. So and this guy, terrible guy.
1595
01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:07.600
I went to a deep dive about this guy. Apparently
1596
01:22:07.640 --> 01:22:10.560
he was an active white supremaist, a member of the
1597
01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:14.359
Area Nations and the KKK while he was involved with
1598
01:22:14.359 --> 01:22:18.880
the Sea Monkeys. And then he died. So not don't
1599
01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.840
rest in peace, dirt bag. But she's still around. But
1600
01:22:22.920 --> 01:22:25.479
the crazy thing is, so she got involved with a
1601
01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:28.800
legal battle for the rights to the Sea Monkeys with
1602
01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:32.960
some other toy company, and these documentary filmmakers tracked her
1603
01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:36.760
down and she's living like Big Eaty and Little Eadie
1604
01:22:36.960 --> 01:22:41.560
in a house in Maryland that's decrepit, with raccoons and things,
1605
01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:44.600
no electricity, no running water, so she's like Greg Gardens.
1606
01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:48.600
Now she's living like Greg Gardens. They did a documentary
1607
01:22:48.600 --> 01:22:52.399
about her where apparently she's fine talking about making these films.
1608
01:22:52.439 --> 01:22:55.199
It's not something she's embarrassed about. The official Sea Monkeys
1609
01:22:55.279 --> 01:22:58.199
website has a statement from her that includes images from
1610
01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:02.000
press books of movies She did it like assignment. Female
1611
01:23:02.119 --> 01:23:04.560
is on there, and I'm just like, okay, so when
1612
01:23:04.640 --> 01:23:08.000
we're not hiding this, okay, good, okay, nothing to be
1613
01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:10.800
embarrassed about. Girl. It's all good, Like this was fifty
1614
01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:13.159
years ago. But I don't know how to get in
1615
01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:15.159
touch with her if she has no electricity or running water.
1616
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:18.359
But she lives in Maryland, which is in my backyard
1617
01:23:18.399 --> 01:23:20.399
from where I grew up in Northern Virginia. So I'm
1618
01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:23.199
kind of like, do I write her a letter? Oh?
1619
01:23:23.239 --> 01:23:24.960
You go there, you go there?
1620
01:23:26.840 --> 01:23:29.880
I Well. The thing is, I think the filmmakers were
1621
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:32.119
nervous because they also want to know about her husband,
1622
01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:35.199
but and he has a very controversial background, being a
1623
01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:38.720
wildly racist person. I don't care about the husband. I
1624
01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:41.279
want to know about the films and her modeling and
1625
01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:41.880
things like that.
1626
01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:44.800
I involved with someone like that, Well we already know,
1627
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:46.279
you know, And did she know.
1628
01:23:47.039 --> 01:23:49.399
He met her there? We yeah, we know that she
1629
01:23:49.479 --> 01:23:51.399
did know that they have a daughter together, so I'm
1630
01:23:51.399 --> 01:23:54.880
pretty sure she did to wear Unfortunately, I just want
1631
01:23:54.920 --> 01:23:56.760
to know about the films. That's all I want to
1632
01:23:56.760 --> 01:23:59.199
know about. I don't want to dig deep into the husband.
1633
01:23:59.199 --> 01:24:00.800
I feel like other people can do that.
1634
01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:03.000
Do you ever run into that, Jane, where you run
1635
01:24:03.039 --> 01:24:06.680
into characters that are have really shady backgrounds and you're like,
1636
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:09.479
I got to put that aside and just focus on
1637
01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:11.359
the art, you know.
1638
01:24:11.640 --> 01:24:14.359
Not to the extent of like being in the KKK
1639
01:24:14.640 --> 01:24:19.720
thankfully as a something like that. And I would have
1640
01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:23.279
a really hard time, you know, separating that personally. But
1641
01:24:24.920 --> 01:24:28.560
you know, there are you know, people are complicated. And
1642
01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:33.279
I would say one thing, for example, with with John Willie,
1643
01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:38.199
although I would not I would not say that he
1644
01:24:38.479 --> 01:24:44.079
expressed a lot of extreme prejudices. He was really he
1645
01:24:44.119 --> 01:24:47.560
would often say things about like you know, for example,
1646
01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:50.880
with cross dressing. You know, oh, well, cross dressing that
1647
01:24:51.079 --> 01:24:54.119
you know, that's not gay. That's like something real men do,
1648
01:24:54.319 --> 01:24:57.279
like back in the you know, back in the back
1649
01:24:57.319 --> 01:25:00.800
in the days of nights and you know, in shining
1650
01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:05.199
armor it was very uh, you know, chivalrous, and and
1651
01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:08.000
they would they would wear high heels and that was normal.
1652
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.479
And he'd really make all these excuses, you know, and
1653
01:25:10.520 --> 01:25:14.439
and and he really emphasized, he liked to emphasize that
1654
01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:17.199
cross dressing was not the same as being gay. And
1655
01:25:17.560 --> 01:25:21.760
of course it's it's not the same, but it's also like, well, okay, John,
1656
01:25:22.039 --> 01:25:25.319
but like it's not really a good deal, like they
1657
01:25:25.319 --> 01:25:28.439
can coexist and it's fine. It doesn't say anything about you.
1658
01:25:29.520 --> 01:25:33.560
And and that's kind of a mid century thing too, I'm sure,
1659
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:37.439
hang up kind of so you know, there's there's things
1660
01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:40.479
like that. But yeah, as far as like being an
1661
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:44.560
active white supremacist, I thankfully have run across anybody like that.
1662
01:25:44.720 --> 01:25:48.760
And yeah, well, I mean that was ed Wood's perspective too,
1663
01:25:48.920 --> 01:25:51.319
wasn't it. With regard to cross dressing. He kind of
1664
01:25:51.359 --> 01:25:53.720
saw it as like a manly thing as well to
1665
01:25:53.800 --> 01:25:54.479
a certain.
1666
01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:56.359
Extent, so he did it openly.
1667
01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:59.720
Yeah, Bella Donna, we kind of talked about her, but
1668
01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:03.159
I uh, if you're not again, we will chill our
1669
01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:04.000
Patreon here.
1670
01:26:04.560 --> 01:26:06.840
I have not seen this photo of Belladonna.
1671
01:26:07.279 --> 01:26:08.279
Which one, there's two?
1672
01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:11.479
Yeah, the ballet, the ballet.
1673
01:26:13.439 --> 01:26:15.760
Yeah. She has a note in here in the newspaper
1674
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:18.439
saying pin up model Lisa Millot of Dayton. I'll say
1675
01:26:18.479 --> 01:26:20.199
her real name because she's no longer with us, is
1676
01:26:20.239 --> 01:26:22.640
Lisa Malot. She used that name on moon Lighting Wives.
1677
01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:24.760
It's actually how I was able to track her because
1678
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:26.800
that's the one movie she used her real name on.
1679
01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:28.800
This has happened several times with us, where it's like
1680
01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:31.880
people's real names are just hiding and playing sight and
1681
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:32.640
we don't realize.
1682
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:36.000
Well, that one I trusted more because I feel like
1683
01:26:36.039 --> 01:26:38.840
there are more real names on those credits than the
1684
01:26:38.920 --> 01:26:40.880
other Sarno's. I feel like that was a much more
1685
01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:45.840
mainstream attempt of a film. So Lisa Mallott of Dayton
1686
01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:48.199
wants to become a serious actress. Quote, but as long
1687
01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:49.680
as they pay me to wear lee it's hard and
1688
01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:53.319
breathe deep, I will like okay. And that appeared all
1689
01:26:53.359 --> 01:26:55.680
over the newspapers all over the country. It hit all
1690
01:26:55.680 --> 01:26:56.359
the news once. You know.
1691
01:26:56.399 --> 01:26:58.960
What's funny too, is like the more I think about it,
1692
01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:01.600
you know, in the movies that she's in, she does
1693
01:27:01.640 --> 01:27:05.800
like active exercise fitness type stuff, like in this she's
1694
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:08.640
riding that fitness bike. So it was like a little
1695
01:27:08.640 --> 01:27:13.439
bit of that real personality, real life like passion coming through.
1696
01:27:14.439 --> 01:27:16.439
She was a health nut and that's why at first
1697
01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:19.439
I was like, you know, she's typically casting older woman
1698
01:27:19.479 --> 01:27:21.960
types in these films, And I said, yeah, but that
1699
01:27:22.119 --> 01:27:24.479
happens in s exploitation. Well, you cast a woman who's
1700
01:27:24.520 --> 01:27:26.680
like in her like late twenties early thirties is like
1701
01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:29.600
a mom or you're an older woman. I'm like, Okay,
1702
01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:32.079
I guess I guess that that works for the narrative.
1703
01:27:32.399 --> 01:27:34.920
But like she was what was the math? Again, she
1704
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:38.000
was mid forties, which is very rare for these films,
1705
01:27:38.039 --> 01:27:40.880
like very rare, and especially the fact that she did
1706
01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:43.199
do nudity in a number of films like that is
1707
01:27:43.279 --> 01:27:45.720
just unheard of. It this time you don't usually this
1708
01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:50.119
genre is focused on like the newest young fresh face
1709
01:27:50.359 --> 01:27:53.079
who who is like coming up in their early twenties.
1710
01:27:53.119 --> 01:27:55.279
So the fact that she was able to find her
1711
01:27:55.279 --> 01:27:59.199
way into this industry and be successful is very special.
1712
01:27:59.239 --> 01:28:01.520
I mean, I've always loved her because just you know,
1713
01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:05.800
I think she's very special. Yeah, you know, Janet was third.
1714
01:28:05.960 --> 01:28:09.359
Janet was mid thirties. She's thirty three, I think because
1715
01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:12.119
she's they're in thirty and nineteen sixty four. Yeah, so
1716
01:28:12.199 --> 01:28:15.359
she was like thirty four thirty three. But it's interesting. Yah,
1717
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:18.800
it's just interesting to note those the ages because I think, yeah,
1718
01:28:18.840 --> 01:28:21.279
the expectation for expectation is always going to be young,
1719
01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:24.800
young women. But when I think you're working, you're trying
1720
01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:28.600
to cast characters and films that have story. You know,
1721
01:28:28.840 --> 01:28:31.840
you want to cast the right type. And so Bella
1722
01:28:31.880 --> 01:28:33.960
Donna just came along with the right time when you
1723
01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:36.399
needed older women moonlining wives, Like a lot of those
1724
01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:39.439
women in that are a little older because they're supposed
1725
01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:42.600
to be like suburban housewives and suburban mothers. So that
1726
01:28:42.680 --> 01:28:46.520
casting works. But yeah, she's great. I hope her daughter
1727
01:28:46.520 --> 01:28:48.880
gets back with me, and I hope it's not too awkward.
1728
01:28:49.720 --> 01:28:49.920
You know.
1729
01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:51.319
Yeah, I don't know.
1730
01:28:51.880 --> 01:28:53.840
I'm looking back at what else was that? Do I
1731
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:56.359
remember bell Yeah, I remember her from a couple of Starnos.
1732
01:28:56.600 --> 01:28:58.399
I'm trying to think which ones she has like the
1733
01:28:58.439 --> 01:28:59.439
bigger roles in.
1734
01:28:59.640 --> 01:29:02.079
She's a huge role and she's doing it again, which
1735
01:29:02.159 --> 01:29:05.039
is the one with Uda Eriksson, when she's really terrific
1736
01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:06.479
in deep.
1737
01:29:06.279 --> 01:29:08.399
Inside she's like the side.
1738
01:29:08.840 --> 01:29:11.920
Yeah, yeah, she's very good. See. And something that I
1739
01:29:12.039 --> 01:29:14.479
like that I have to get ready to do, Jane,
1740
01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:17.920
is that when I'm contacting family members of people who
1741
01:29:17.960 --> 01:29:20.640
don't necessarily obviously want to see their family members nude
1742
01:29:20.640 --> 01:29:22.279
in these films, so I have to create like a
1743
01:29:22.319 --> 01:29:25.399
super cut of you know, like here's here's a highlight
1744
01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:30.239
reel without the nudity of why because yes, because as
1745
01:29:30.279 --> 01:29:34.079
a gay man, I'm not necessarily I'm obviously not pursuing
1746
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:36.760
or interested in the women in these films for the
1747
01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:39.840
obvious reasons. Like so I will do a super cut
1748
01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:42.680
of like their performances or like you know, when they're
1749
01:29:42.680 --> 01:29:45.680
lit really well, and like, you know, yeah, I might
1750
01:29:45.720 --> 01:29:48.760
have to do that for this daughter actually, just to
1751
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:50.600
be like, let's talk about your mom's modeling. Did she
1752
01:29:50.640 --> 01:29:52.840
talk about the films? And if she hasn't seen them,
1753
01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:55.000
then I have to introduce her to some of the
1754
01:29:55.039 --> 01:29:55.479
good ones.
1755
01:29:56.119 --> 01:29:58.039
Yeah, what a great idea, What a great way to
1756
01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.640
do it because also sometimes you know, even if it's
1757
01:30:00.640 --> 01:30:02.399
not your family member, if you just want to see
1758
01:30:02.479 --> 01:30:04.399
some of people to start, and if you start with
1759
01:30:04.439 --> 01:30:05.920
the wrong movie, you might just.
1760
01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:10.520
You know's, yes, yeah, I have to do that. Actually
1761
01:30:10.560 --> 01:30:13.760
with I'm friends with Barbara Mills' daughter, and Barbara Mills
1762
01:30:13.840 --> 01:30:16.039
is someone that Genter and I both like, and she
1763
01:30:16.199 --> 01:30:19.319
passed away, but her and her daughter is interested in
1764
01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:21.359
watching her mom's films. So her mom only made like
1765
01:30:21.399 --> 01:30:23.439
a few movies that are like PG and she did
1766
01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:25.840
nudity in so many of her films. So I'm like,
1767
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:28.479
I need to do a super cut because her mom
1768
01:30:28.560 --> 01:30:30.600
was like, really, she's a really good actress, and so
1769
01:30:30.680 --> 01:30:32.680
there's a lot of good stuff that I can pull
1770
01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:35.560
to kind of show her why she has she's such
1771
01:30:35.600 --> 01:30:40.159
a magnetic cinema personality. It's really not about, you know,
1772
01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:43.880
the sexual persona. It's about like the cinematic persona, which
1773
01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:47.920
sometimes includes nudy and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's about,
1774
01:30:48.119 --> 01:30:51.319
you know, the vibrant scene and the personality that they
1775
01:30:51.359 --> 01:30:53.199
have they bring character.
1776
01:30:53.079 --> 01:30:55.920
All that stuff. All her scenes from Blue Money there
1777
01:30:55.960 --> 01:30:56.239
you go.
1778
01:30:56.399 --> 01:30:59.039
Yes, except for the scene where she's nude carrying a
1779
01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:03.880
little child. Yes, No, that's mechanically that it is sweet
1780
01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:07.279
because she just had her daughter at that time, so
1781
01:31:07.319 --> 01:31:09.520
it kind of is like she's carrying the doctor that
1782
01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:13.119
I'm friends with. Yeah, but that does well, that does
1783
01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:15.079
remind me, Actually, Jane, I did want to ask. So
1784
01:31:15.840 --> 01:31:20.279
in terms of research, we we will run into issues
1785
01:31:20.319 --> 01:31:24.000
with like people that either are gone and deceased, or
1786
01:31:24.079 --> 01:31:26.880
we went into obstacles where somebody we want to interview
1787
01:31:26.880 --> 01:31:30.319
doesn't want to talk. So for your book, like what
1788
01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:34.359
were were there some obstacles that you that you ran
1789
01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:37.199
into but that you were able to like overcome those
1790
01:31:37.239 --> 01:31:40.119
obstacles to kind of get what you needed for the project.
1791
01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:43.960
Yes, you know, there were a few people, specifically John
1792
01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:46.319
Willie's models, where I did try to reach out to
1793
01:31:46.359 --> 01:31:50.119
some of the family members. Some of them had careers,
1794
01:31:50.399 --> 01:31:53.319
you know, not just in bondage modeling, but in other
1795
01:31:53.359 --> 01:31:56.520
types of modeling as well. And there was one in
1796
01:31:56.560 --> 01:32:00.479
particular who was a favorite model of John, and I
1797
01:32:00.520 --> 01:32:02.960
tried to reach out to some of her family members
1798
01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:08.159
because she has since died and wasn't able to or
1799
01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:09.920
you know, didn't receive a response.
1800
01:32:10.520 --> 01:32:11.439
Is that Pat Conley?
1801
01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:16.720
It is, yes, and she's she's such a great model.
1802
01:32:16.800 --> 01:32:21.119
I really really love her. But fortunately, you know, I
1803
01:32:21.159 --> 01:32:23.880
was able to find information through other sources as well,
1804
01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:27.880
so that was good. Let's see, just kind of in general,
1805
01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:32.119
it was a tough, a tough research project because a
1806
01:32:32.159 --> 01:32:36.960
lot of the people have passed on. And fortunately that
1807
01:32:37.039 --> 01:32:42.199
Kinsey Institute at Indiana University has a lot of generally materials.
1808
01:32:42.399 --> 01:32:44.800
They even did interviews with him before his death, so
1809
01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:48.640
that was really really helpful. We're so lucky as a
1810
01:32:48.680 --> 01:32:51.359
culture to have those and to have that that repository.
1811
01:32:52.319 --> 01:32:52.560
Yeah.
1812
01:32:53.239 --> 01:32:56.039
So yeah, you know, I mean, you know, research is
1813
01:32:56.079 --> 01:32:58.920
always kind of an up and down and up and down, and.
1814
01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:01.720
Some times you reach out to people and you hear nothing,
1815
01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:05.359
and it's like I'd rather hear a no than radio silence.
1816
01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:07.199
Just tell me no, so that I know that it's
1817
01:33:07.199 --> 01:33:09.680
a definitive not going to happen.
1818
01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:12.159
Right, And then it reached you, you know that you
1819
01:33:12.199 --> 01:33:13.800
saw it and that I wasn't writing.
1820
01:33:13.640 --> 01:33:14.119
The wrong.
1821
01:33:15.479 --> 01:33:17.960
You know, yes, yes, because that can happen too. Yeah.
1822
01:33:18.000 --> 01:33:19.840
I mean, actually I reached out to someone who I
1823
01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:22.199
thought was an actress. I wrote them a letter and
1824
01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:24.199
they called me and they said, so I'm not the
1825
01:33:24.239 --> 01:33:26.359
person you're looking for, but I love the letter tell
1826
01:33:26.359 --> 01:33:28.399
me all about this woman that has my name, And
1827
01:33:28.439 --> 01:33:31.640
I was like, uh, okay, I'll give you the download
1828
01:33:31.680 --> 01:33:34.199
of this cool person who has your name. And I
1829
01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:36.720
kept listening like is it really them? Are they really?
1830
01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:39.039
Are they pretending just to see if I'm for real?
1831
01:33:39.159 --> 01:33:43.479
And it wasn't her. It's like okay, but but yeah,
1832
01:33:43.479 --> 01:33:46.199
the research is fun. But yeah, it's like you definitely
1833
01:33:46.239 --> 01:33:48.359
run into those those issues where you're just like, Okay,
1834
01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:51.399
where do I go to get this the full narrative
1835
01:33:51.479 --> 01:33:53.720
for the story that I'm telling. But it sounds like
1836
01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:56.159
I'm really glad that you didn't run into that as
1837
01:33:56.159 --> 01:33:58.439
frequently and you were able to kind of tell that
1838
01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:03.119
story effectively and completely for this project, because that's really incredible.
1839
01:34:03.359 --> 01:34:05.479
Yeah, it was a really exciting project to work on
1840
01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.640
for sure. You know a lot of One more thing
1841
01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:11.560
about you were talking about the age of the actors
1842
01:34:11.560 --> 01:34:14.760
and actresses and even you know, shep wild and stuff
1843
01:34:14.760 --> 01:34:20.439
like that, being older in Venus in first, And something
1844
01:34:20.439 --> 01:34:22.439
that that brings to mind for me is the fact
1845
01:34:22.600 --> 01:34:26.439
that in the kind of fetish magazine world, the models
1846
01:34:26.439 --> 01:34:29.239
aren't always young. You know, there are older models or
1847
01:34:29.359 --> 01:34:34.239
if readers send in amateur photos, a lot of times
1848
01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:37.000
it will be older people, older men, and older women,
1849
01:34:37.720 --> 01:34:39.399
and so there's a wide range of ages.
1850
01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:40.199
And that was.
1851
01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:45.600
The case early on, but even into the present day
1852
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:47.720
that is the case I think a lot of times,
1853
01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:53.359
particularly with the dominant women, age is considered sort of
1854
01:34:53.359 --> 01:34:55.560
a benefit in a lot of cases as far as
1855
01:34:55.640 --> 01:34:58.920
experience goes, and so so that could have been part
1856
01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:01.760
of it too in terms of casting for this particular movie.
1857
01:35:02.279 --> 01:35:05.319
Yeah right, Yeah, that makes me wonder, Yeah, because like
1858
01:35:05.359 --> 01:35:08.760
you mentioned, the experience angle, so it's someone who has
1859
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:11.920
lived life and they maybe they're more confident in where
1860
01:35:11.920 --> 01:35:13.760
they are, and so it really is like, this is
1861
01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:15.600
something that I want to do. It's not. It's not
1862
01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:19.119
something that maybe someone younger would years later considered like
1863
01:35:19.159 --> 01:35:22.439
a youthful indiscretion. It's something that they made an informed
1864
01:35:22.439 --> 01:35:24.560
decision about because they were older and knew what they
1865
01:35:24.600 --> 01:35:27.600
were doing. That's very interesting. I never thought about that,
1866
01:35:27.640 --> 01:35:29.720
because you know, for a lot of magazines you see
1867
01:35:29.720 --> 01:35:31.680
the personals ads in the back, and there is a
1868
01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:34.960
wide variety of people in those personals ads. It really
1869
01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:38.520
is very diverse, and I always love seeing those. I
1870
01:35:38.520 --> 01:35:41.520
mean it's it's decades later now, but it's just like
1871
01:35:41.800 --> 01:35:45.159
these were people who were really being very sexually progressive
1872
01:35:45.359 --> 01:35:48.760
and wanted to explore their sexuality. And I love that
1873
01:35:49.760 --> 01:35:52.800
we don't really work we talk about this on here
1874
01:35:52.840 --> 01:35:55.319
where I feel like we're kind of in like in
1875
01:35:55.319 --> 01:35:57.520
some place, some areas we're in like a sexual dead
1876
01:35:57.600 --> 01:36:03.119
zone where there's a lot of negativity about about elements
1877
01:36:03.159 --> 01:36:05.560
of sex and in film and in culture and things
1878
01:36:05.600 --> 01:36:08.319
like that. So that's where we try to keep the
1879
01:36:08.359 --> 01:36:12.439
conversation going in a way that we try to just
1880
01:36:12.479 --> 01:36:15.840
try to not make it as as dirty as people
1881
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:20.479
are saying privately when talking about her book, I'm just like,
1882
01:36:20.960 --> 01:36:22.760
I'm you should be proud that.
1883
01:36:22.760 --> 01:36:26.159
This thing was even published these days, because there's a
1884
01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:28.520
lot of places that just don't want to touch it,
1885
01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:29.880
they won't even look at it.
1886
01:36:30.319 --> 01:36:32.520
Well, that's why, and that's also why Sex Best. I'm
1887
01:36:32.520 --> 01:36:34.600
really glad Sex Best is still going.
1888
01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:38.000
You know, they are so great and the people behind
1889
01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:39.079
it are so nice, you know.
1890
01:36:40.119 --> 01:36:40.680
Yeah.
1891
01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:43.760
Yeah, there's a festival called Sinecink here in New York
1892
01:36:43.840 --> 01:36:46.199
that I'm friends with the organizer of that, Lisa Vanderveer,
1893
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:51.399
And yeah, she that keeps going. Actually, when is that
1894
01:36:51.439 --> 01:36:53.840
coming up? But they do that every I think they
1895
01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:55.680
do that every year. I remember they even did it
1896
01:36:55.760 --> 01:36:57.920
during COVID. They did like it did like a from
1897
01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:02.039
home version of Sinecink And that's really great, and that
1898
01:37:02.119 --> 01:37:04.359
really is very it's very pro kink. It has there's
1899
01:37:04.359 --> 01:37:07.920
a lot of independent filmmakers that contribute like into their
1900
01:37:07.920 --> 01:37:11.319
short films that they make like It's it's really it's
1901
01:37:11.399 --> 01:37:13.119
kind of I guess, like the East Coast version of
1902
01:37:13.159 --> 01:37:16.279
sex Fest. But it's also very very kink focused, all
1903
01:37:16.359 --> 01:37:18.720
kinds of kink too, and very diverse.
1904
01:37:19.479 --> 01:37:22.439
Well, speaking of that, Jane, you know, what are some
1905
01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:24.800
kink films you would recommend?
1906
01:37:25.640 --> 01:37:26.359
Are there any?
1907
01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:29.039
They don't have to be necessarily your favorites, but maybe
1908
01:37:29.039 --> 01:37:32.840
that sort of capture some accuracy.
1909
01:37:32.520 --> 01:37:35.000
Or something that you think is worthwhile.
1910
01:37:35.399 --> 01:37:39.399
Oh god, that's a good question. I might need to
1911
01:37:39.439 --> 01:37:43.720
get you a list. I love that as far as
1912
01:37:43.760 --> 01:37:46.279
like kind of I mean, it's it's definitely a more
1913
01:37:46.319 --> 01:37:49.159
recent vintage. But like Secretary, I really liked that movie.
1914
01:37:49.199 --> 01:37:50.039
I thought they did a great.
1915
01:37:49.960 --> 01:37:52.800
Job with Secretary. Yeah, it's kind.
1916
01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:54.479
Of funny, but one of my favorite letters that was
1917
01:37:54.479 --> 01:37:57.359
written into bizarre was from a It was kind of
1918
01:37:57.399 --> 01:37:59.840
I think it was nineteen fifty three and this man
1919
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:03.600
in about he said, you go to the movies and
1920
01:38:03.640 --> 01:38:05.319
you see, you know, you see a poster where you
1921
01:38:05.319 --> 01:38:07.439
think there's gonna be something in the movie that you like,
1922
01:38:07.439 --> 01:38:09.760
like a woman tied up. And he said, but you
1923
01:38:09.800 --> 01:38:12.079
may have noticed that when you go to this movie,
1924
01:38:12.760 --> 01:38:17.159
such scenes are annoyingly brief. And so he said, what
1925
01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:19.479
you can do is you can bring a camera into
1926
01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:22.560
the movie theater with you, and even explained how like
1927
01:38:22.880 --> 01:38:26.520
you can brace your your elbows on your seats of
1928
01:38:27.039 --> 01:38:29.880
the elbow, you know, the armpads of your seat, and
1929
01:38:29.960 --> 01:38:31.880
like make a little tripod so that you don't get
1930
01:38:31.880 --> 01:38:34.600
any blur and take all the pictures you want of
1931
01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:36.800
the scenes that you want to see. And then he
1932
01:38:38.239 --> 01:38:43.239
provided an entire list of movies. I'll like copy it
1933
01:38:43.279 --> 01:38:45.359
and send it to you, guys. It's so funny. He
1934
01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:50.039
puts little asterisks next to the best ones, and you know,
1935
01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:52.279
some of them, he says, they're all, yeah, they're okay,
1936
01:38:52.479 --> 01:38:57.319
but you know, and then there's there's one called something girls,
1937
01:38:57.439 --> 01:38:59.680
Bad Girls, or something like that, and he writes next
1938
01:38:59.720 --> 01:39:03.079
to it, good poster and I looked up the poster
1939
01:39:03.159 --> 01:39:07.319
and it's like, you know, this school head mistress spraying
1940
01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:09.279
this tied up girl with a hose.
1941
01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:14.279
Oh my god, know what we're talking.
1942
01:39:14.920 --> 01:39:17.159
Then that movie obviously does not live up to it
1943
01:39:17.199 --> 01:39:19.199
because he only comments on the poster.
1944
01:39:20.439 --> 01:39:22.840
He was not so good. But check out the poster.
1945
01:39:23.039 --> 01:39:27.279
Yeah, I love that. That. Oh that is so.
1946
01:39:27.159 --> 01:39:30.159
It sounds like isn't that a scene in Rented Girl?
1947
01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:33.079
Like rent a Girl? Yeah, but that scene is in there.
1948
01:39:33.119 --> 01:39:35.159
He would have commented and said, the scene is good.
1949
01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:39.840
It's based on that. That's a really crazy scene. Yes,
1950
01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:43.239
that's fascinating. That's really fascinating.
1951
01:39:43.319 --> 01:39:44.520
We need to see that list.
1952
01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:48.079
Yeah, it's cool, and it's kind of interesting because some
1953
01:39:48.159 --> 01:39:50.479
of them are just the other pilot movies. There's something
1954
01:39:50.479 --> 01:39:52.600
where a woman got tied up to a to a
1955
01:39:52.680 --> 01:39:56.159
ship or whatever right in those days.
1956
01:39:56.199 --> 01:40:01.039
That that's enough, that's enough. Yeah, are out there, like yeah, but.
1957
01:40:01.079 --> 01:40:03.399
I also love the idea that like he wrote that
1958
01:40:03.479 --> 01:40:05.760
letter in knowing that it might get published and then
1959
01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:08.640
that way that's like that that is that form of
1960
01:40:08.640 --> 01:40:11.800
community building, Like we would not get that until message
1961
01:40:11.840 --> 01:40:14.479
boards and read it and like Facebook groups and all
1962
01:40:14.520 --> 01:40:17.640
that stuff and now in MySpace and stuff like that.
1963
01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:20.960
So that's so interesting that like at that time that
1964
01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:23.439
was the way that you communicated stuff to the people
1965
01:40:23.640 --> 01:40:28.159
that were simpatica with You're like those yeah.
1966
01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:30.079
Yes, yes, that is exactly correct.
1967
01:40:30.600 --> 01:40:33.880
I love that, see, and that's why I anytime I
1968
01:40:33.880 --> 01:40:37.520
get old periodicals that are like you know, sexually oriented periodicals,
1969
01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:40.880
I always read the letters to the editor. I always
1970
01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:44.079
read this stuff because sometimes it's asking sometimes just good questions,
1971
01:40:44.079 --> 01:40:46.920
and sometimes it's people who actually have like been involved
1972
01:40:46.920 --> 01:40:50.000
with Sometimes photographers and other people involved in the business
1973
01:40:50.039 --> 01:40:52.560
write in and like you didn't get this correct, and
1974
01:40:52.640 --> 01:40:54.760
you know that kind of thing. So it's very interesting.
1975
01:40:54.800 --> 01:40:57.439
They're not always fabricated. I feel like the fabrication was
1976
01:40:57.479 --> 01:40:59.960
maybe like something that happened later in like the porno years.
1977
01:41:00.680 --> 01:41:04.039
But yeah, I love the fact that I love the
1978
01:41:04.119 --> 01:41:06.479
letters to the editor being like this is the bulletin
1979
01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:11.039
board and then the news updates for people of like mine.
1980
01:41:11.159 --> 01:41:15.880
That is great. I love that. Oh I never know
1981
01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:16.680
what I'm going to do.
1982
01:41:18.399 --> 01:41:19.720
I study impul.
1983
01:41:21.560 --> 01:41:22.600
I love doing.
1984
01:41:26.039 --> 01:41:28.239
All right, Jane, you send us that and then we'll
1985
01:41:28.279 --> 01:41:31.159
create like a letterbox list of all those movies and
1986
01:41:31.199 --> 01:41:32.079
put it online.
1987
01:41:32.479 --> 01:41:37.079
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I'm trying to gauge ones
1988
01:41:37.119 --> 01:41:40.920
that you would like more, because if you don't like
1989
01:41:40.960 --> 01:41:43.880
the Olga ones, I mean, there are definitely better ones
1990
01:41:44.760 --> 01:41:48.319
and Olga, I mean, I guess we don't have to
1991
01:41:48.359 --> 01:41:50.760
talk about Olga. But like, I feel like those movies
1992
01:41:50.800 --> 01:41:53.920
are very similar, like the Irving Claw photos. But the
1993
01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:59.399
Claw photos there are something much more sexually charged about
1994
01:41:59.439 --> 01:42:04.479
those than the films, probably because Claw knew what he
1995
01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:07.439
was doing, and I don't think Morow was really into
1996
01:42:08.239 --> 01:42:11.279
I don't think he was into the nature of sm
1997
01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:13.840
M and bondage and things, but they ca it's like
1998
01:42:13.920 --> 01:42:17.960
more like play acting I think in those, Yes, But
1999
01:42:17.960 --> 01:42:20.399
but yeah, we'll have to figure that out because some
2000
01:42:20.439 --> 01:42:22.760
of the fetish, I don't know. It's interesting because a
2001
01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:25.479
lot of fetish stuff and exploitation fetish really found more
2002
01:42:25.479 --> 01:42:30.039
of a home when hardcore started, because yeah, it really
2003
01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:33.880
was not something that was really present in a ton
2004
01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:37.039
of softcore, but when stuff came out like the image
2005
01:42:37.119 --> 01:42:42.800
or the Notty Victorians or the image Yes, story of Joanna,
2006
01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:46.000
Oh my god, I love the Story of Joanna. Yes, yeah,
2007
01:42:46.079 --> 01:42:46.680
stuff like that.
2008
01:42:47.239 --> 01:42:50.680
In eight hundred Fantasy Lane, there's like a dungency.
2009
01:42:50.840 --> 01:42:53.039
That dungeency bothers the hell out of me because I
2010
01:42:53.079 --> 01:42:56.680
think it crosses the line into like Hillary Summers was
2011
01:42:56.720 --> 01:43:01.199
obviously very upset and crying real t because Jamie Gillis
2012
01:43:01.199 --> 01:43:04.159
took it too far that that that bit might be
2013
01:43:04.239 --> 01:43:07.000
cut out on current video versions, like the original uncut version,
2014
01:43:07.239 --> 01:43:10.399
she's like hitting him and he's hitting her back, she's crying.
2015
01:43:10.439 --> 01:43:12.880
I'm like, oh my god, Yeah, it's that's a little
2016
01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:15.319
over the top. Give me a story of Joanna where
2017
01:43:15.319 --> 01:43:18.319
it's a little more it's a little more poetic and
2018
01:43:18.439 --> 01:43:22.600
you know, yes, and you get to see her dancing
2019
01:43:22.640 --> 01:43:25.760
ballet because she was a ballerina in real life. Yeah,
2020
01:43:26.039 --> 01:43:26.319
so I.
2021
01:43:26.279 --> 01:43:28.880
Know it isn't that great. I love it when like
2022
01:43:28.960 --> 01:43:31.159
sort of like the whole thing about the exercise bike,
2023
01:43:31.279 --> 01:43:34.039
or like Chuck Wild doing the massage. I love it
2024
01:43:34.079 --> 01:43:38.720
when some of a performer's real life gets folded in with.
2025
01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:41.840
Yeah, it doesn't happen that frequently. Because we were just
2026
01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:45.560
talking last week about an actress that was a singer.
2027
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:48.960
She had a paramount recording contract. She never sings in
2028
01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:51.279
any of her movies. Yeah, so we don't know what
2029
01:43:51.319 --> 01:43:54.039
she sounds like. Also, because she didn't record anything. She
2030
01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:57.119
had a contract, but no recordings were made, so we
2031
01:43:57.159 --> 01:43:59.000
don't know what her singing voice was like. And that's
2032
01:43:59.039 --> 01:44:01.039
when it's like, God, couldn't you have done like this
2033
01:44:01.119 --> 01:44:04.960
Belladonna on a or Terry Hall doing ballet? Like why
2034
01:44:04.960 --> 01:44:07.199
couldn't you let us see some of who this person was,
2035
01:44:07.359 --> 01:44:07.560
you know?
2036
01:44:07.920 --> 01:44:11.239
Or I'm for some reason blanking on her name right
2037
01:44:11.239 --> 01:44:13.279
now with the actress that was in Satan in high
2038
01:44:13.279 --> 01:44:14.640
heels and she sang.
2039
01:44:14.600 --> 01:44:19.600
Oh yeah, Med Miles, Yes, yeah, they act she was
2040
01:44:19.640 --> 01:44:22.239
a singer. Yeah, and she's great. Yeah, she's a good
2041
01:44:22.279 --> 01:44:26.399
singer on that. Grayson Hall, well yeah, yeah. I'm so
2042
01:44:26.479 --> 01:44:29.119
glad that that was that was that was shown and
2043
01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:31.319
I'm bummed I didn't get to see it because I
2044
01:44:31.359 --> 01:44:33.720
what was the So what was the audience reaction to that?
2045
01:44:33.760 --> 01:44:36.000
I would love to know how that screening went over?
2046
01:44:36.319 --> 01:44:37.960
Yeah, it went over really Bill. There were a lot
2047
01:44:37.960 --> 01:44:41.600
of people there, and I was I was pleased to
2048
01:44:41.600 --> 01:44:44.680
see you know, people kind of uh kind of laughed
2049
01:44:44.720 --> 01:44:46.479
at all the right parts, the little kind of like
2050
01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:49.119
subtle digs and stuff like that, or some of the
2051
01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:54.960
kind of kind of campy or silly parts. So but Yeah,
2052
01:44:55.079 --> 01:44:56.800
people seem to enjoy it. I talked to a few
2053
01:44:56.800 --> 01:44:59.159
people afterwards that that had good things to say.
2054
01:44:59.640 --> 01:44:59.880
Yeah.
2055
01:45:00.039 --> 01:45:02.399
I think we said on our show too, like that's
2056
01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:05.239
a really good one to screen for people that might
2057
01:45:05.319 --> 01:45:09.680
not be familiar with sexploitation because it's pretty tame at
2058
01:45:09.680 --> 01:45:10.840
the end of the day.
2059
01:45:10.920 --> 01:45:11.279
Yeah.
2060
01:45:11.359 --> 01:45:13.720
Yeah, it's much more of like a melodrama. It is
2061
01:45:13.880 --> 01:45:16.199
very like classic Hollywood bad.
2062
01:45:16.079 --> 01:45:19.159
Girl, like something is mean on TCM.
2063
01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:23.680
You know, it's very pre code. Actually, it's something you
2064
01:45:23.680 --> 01:45:27.720
would see in pre code, like like Babyface, you know,
2065
01:45:27.880 --> 01:45:31.800
or something else. Yeah, it reminds me that it's like,
2066
01:45:31.880 --> 01:45:33.479
I'm going to make it to the top of show
2067
01:45:33.520 --> 01:45:36.119
business in New York and I'm gonna, you know, seduce
2068
01:45:36.159 --> 01:45:38.479
a gay guy, go to bed with a lesbian have
2069
01:45:38.520 --> 01:45:41.560
sex with the Bossa's son. Like, yeah, it's very stand
2070
01:45:41.560 --> 01:45:43.640
Wick and baby Face. I'm just like, and you're on
2071
01:45:43.680 --> 01:45:46.399
her side the entire time. I'm never not against her.
2072
01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:47.840
Yeah, So.
2073
01:45:49.159 --> 01:45:50.479
I don't care if the movie's trying to make me
2074
01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:53.239
hate her. You can't make me hate mid Miles. I'm sorry.
2075
01:45:53.399 --> 01:45:55.479
You can't make me hate the Satan and high heels
2076
01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:57.439
not possible.
2077
01:45:57.199 --> 01:45:59.479
And that would be such a cool time capsule too,
2078
01:45:59.479 --> 01:46:04.600
I feel, especially with the fashions. I mean not to derail,
2079
01:46:04.920 --> 01:46:08.199
but like Samuel Robert was the designer that did the
2080
01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:13.239
leatherwear for that movie, and yes, so fabulous.
2081
01:46:14.479 --> 01:46:16.640
Now, we didn't talk about him on our episode. Actually,
2082
01:46:16.680 --> 01:46:19.399
I don't think. I wasn't aware that he was like
2083
01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:22.039
a known person. I don't think.
2084
01:46:22.359 --> 01:46:26.439
Yeah, he was a leatherwear designer. He actually worked in
2085
01:46:26.520 --> 01:46:31.199
collaboration with Andre Corre for a while, who was another
2086
01:46:31.800 --> 01:46:35.680
designer who had a lot of fetish influence in his clothing,
2087
01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:39.319
even though he's a high end designer. Actually, at this
2088
01:46:39.439 --> 01:46:42.079
period kind of mid to late sixties, there was a
2089
01:46:42.079 --> 01:46:46.000
lot of fetish influence happening in mainstream fashion. And yeah,
2090
01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:50.000
Samuel Robert, I think he started in the nineteen fifties,
2091
01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:52.680
forties or fifties actually, and he was a really creative
2092
01:46:53.199 --> 01:46:58.399
leatherwear designer, made some very unusual garments that were kind
2093
01:46:58.399 --> 01:47:03.439
of conservative in line, but very unusual in fabric as
2094
01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:05.920
far as using the leather and swede and stuff like that.
2095
01:47:07.479 --> 01:47:10.760
And yeah, I kind of wondered how he ended up
2096
01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:14.039
getting hooked up with Lenny Bertman other than just you know,
2097
01:47:14.319 --> 01:47:16.600
I was wondered kind of Oh, had he made garments
2098
01:47:16.640 --> 01:47:19.760
for Bertman for photos or something like that. I wasn't
2099
01:47:19.800 --> 01:47:22.680
able to find any information about that. But he even
2100
01:47:22.800 --> 01:47:28.520
won some award from like Leather Leather Manufacturers of America
2101
01:47:28.760 --> 01:47:31.319
for promoting leather in such a great way.
2102
01:47:32.079 --> 01:47:33.920
Wow, oh my gosh.
2103
01:47:34.039 --> 01:47:36.039
Well, I think I said that was my favorite part
2104
01:47:36.079 --> 01:47:40.079
of that movie was the leather outfits and you hear
2105
01:47:40.359 --> 01:47:42.840
the actual you know, crinkling of the leather.
2106
01:47:43.199 --> 01:47:45.159
That's like the most erotic part of that movie to me.
2107
01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:47.880
Right, Well, yeah, I think that was I think that
2108
01:47:47.960 --> 01:47:49.840
was the point. I think that's what Bertman wanted to be.
2109
01:47:50.960 --> 01:47:54.319
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I think that was Gentry's main problem.
2110
01:47:54.399 --> 01:47:58.079
He was like, there's not enough leather in this because
2111
01:47:58.119 --> 01:48:00.279
that is yeah, I mean there is. She doesn't into
2112
01:48:00.279 --> 01:48:02.079
the leather into the last act of the movie, and
2113
01:48:02.119 --> 01:48:03.800
it's like she should have been in leather the whole time.
2114
01:48:05.399 --> 01:48:08.159
Who should have heard her in leather crinkling into the
2115
01:48:08.199 --> 01:48:10.199
place when she came to the city, Like she should
2116
01:48:10.199 --> 01:48:12.560
have been in a leather the whole time. That would
2117
01:48:12.560 --> 01:48:15.800
have been nice. But you also need that that that
2118
01:48:15.880 --> 01:48:20.199
corruption the city, making her more corrupt. I guess that
2119
01:48:20.279 --> 01:48:21.960
classic New York City corruption.
2120
01:48:22.520 --> 01:48:25.439
Well, I sense a bonus feature in the future, maybe
2121
01:48:25.439 --> 01:48:27.840
if we can get Satan in High Heels on Blu Ray,
2122
01:48:28.039 --> 01:48:30.960
if we can delve into some of this stuff.
2123
01:48:31.279 --> 01:48:33.960
Yes, spoiler alert. We put a bug in the ear
2124
01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:35.960
of a company that we work for to try to
2125
01:48:35.960 --> 01:48:40.840
get that. So yeah, I would love it. Now. I
2126
01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:44.760
would love if you could screen Venus in Furs at
2127
01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:48.800
Sexfest next year or the next sex Best. The issue
2128
01:48:48.960 --> 01:48:53.239
is with the Novak estate, but I think I think
2129
01:48:53.279 --> 01:48:55.560
this one will probably go over really well too. I
2130
01:48:55.600 --> 01:48:57.680
don't I don't think it's not a story heavy at
2131
01:48:57.720 --> 01:49:00.039
Satan I Heels, but it covers so much territory and
2132
01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:02.039
it must it would look really good on a big screen,
2133
01:49:02.079 --> 01:49:03.399
I think absolutely.
2134
01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:03.720
Yeah.
2135
01:49:03.760 --> 01:49:06.479
I think people would be really into it because it
2136
01:49:06.520 --> 01:49:09.079
just looks, like you say, it just looks cool. It
2137
01:49:09.279 --> 01:49:12.560
just yeah, yeah.
2138
01:49:12.199 --> 01:49:12.800
I love it.
2139
01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:16.680
I'm glad you liked it, Jane, because we were searching
2140
01:49:16.760 --> 01:49:19.319
for a film that you would enjoy talking about.
2141
01:49:20.920 --> 01:49:21.159
Yeah.
2142
01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:23.439
Yeah, I really, I really did. Thank you so much.
2143
01:49:24.159 --> 01:49:26.359
Yeah, I'm trying, yeah, because that's what I'm trying to
2144
01:49:26.359 --> 01:49:29.479
think of a good follow up on this. You just
2145
01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:32.279
think cool it baby, not mini skirt Love. I still
2146
01:49:32.319 --> 01:49:35.199
think Love isn't really fetishy. It does have Bella Donna
2147
01:49:35.239 --> 01:49:37.399
though and Janea bands, and it has the two doms
2148
01:49:37.399 --> 01:49:41.319
in this as basically sisters, you know.
2149
01:49:41.439 --> 01:49:44.680
Cool it baby has that whole uh scene near the
2150
01:49:44.840 --> 01:49:49.399
end with all the just like complete depravity going on everywhere,
2151
01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:52.760
with the even have like they even have like blood
2152
01:49:52.800 --> 01:49:57.760
sacrifice stuff going on with drinking goat's blood and all
2153
01:49:57.840 --> 01:49:58.479
the strange.
2154
01:49:58.680 --> 01:50:02.640
True, maybe so circus actually that maybe you don't think
2155
01:50:02.680 --> 01:50:04.159
so Alex like that one.
2156
01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:07.119
I mean, it's on that scan for that is just
2157
01:50:07.159 --> 01:50:08.199
like so hard to watch.
2158
01:50:08.239 --> 01:50:11.640
That's true. I don't know that we have to. Yes,
2159
01:50:11.760 --> 01:50:14.119
that's true. Okay, we want it. We want something that
2160
01:50:14.119 --> 01:50:16.520
you can actually see and appreciate how well made it is.
2161
01:50:18.039 --> 01:50:21.640
If it's ugly, it's gonna look terrible. That's true. Yeah. So,
2162
01:50:21.800 --> 01:50:23.960
oh actually I did want to ask, what, so, are
2163
01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:26.680
you working on anything new after the John Willie book
2164
01:50:26.720 --> 01:50:28.640
is out? Do you have another project you're working on?
2165
01:50:28.720 --> 01:50:29.039
Right? Yeah?
2166
01:50:29.079 --> 01:50:30.920
Can you actually talk about it? That's the question?
2167
01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:33.359
Oh?
2168
01:50:33.439 --> 01:50:39.880
Yes, And yes, I mean, okay.
2169
01:50:36.680 --> 01:50:36.760
I.
2170
01:50:38.279 --> 01:50:40.800
Am working on my second book right now. Unfortunately I
2171
01:50:40.800 --> 01:50:42.880
can't talk about it yet, but it is going to
2172
01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:44.159
be another biography.
2173
01:50:44.479 --> 01:50:45.039
So great.
2174
01:50:45.560 --> 01:50:47.720
Is it in the same realm? Can you say that
2175
01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:49.479
it's adjacent?
2176
01:50:50.159 --> 01:50:53.039
Yeah, it's still it's still in kind of a sex
2177
01:50:53.079 --> 01:50:53.760
focused realm.
2178
01:50:53.840 --> 01:50:57.359
Yes, okay, great all I needed to know, sign me up. Yes,
2179
01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:01.479
I love that. Yeah, we're very sex positive here. We
2180
01:51:01.479 --> 01:51:05.439
want to see more more sexual history captured and shared
2181
01:51:05.479 --> 01:51:05.920
with people.
2182
01:51:06.119 --> 01:51:07.119
Yeah. Absolutely.
2183
01:51:07.399 --> 01:51:09.039
I need to buy this book now. I'm gon't order
2184
01:51:09.079 --> 01:51:11.359
it when we finished with this so I can finally
2185
01:51:11.359 --> 01:51:12.039
read it.
2186
01:51:12.039 --> 01:51:15.439
It's so beautiful, like I was telling Jean, like the
2187
01:51:15.439 --> 01:51:18.279
they do like the black pages.
2188
01:51:18.439 --> 01:51:19.159
It looks so.
2189
01:51:19.239 --> 01:51:22.560
Oh my god, I love that design. Oh wow.
2190
01:51:23.039 --> 01:51:25.720
And even on the inside, like I don't know what
2191
01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:27.600
you call this, it's sort of like embossed.
2192
01:51:27.720 --> 01:51:28.680
It's so nice.
2193
01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:32.079
Oh yeah, oh I love that. That is really cool.
2194
01:51:32.279 --> 01:51:36.760
Okay, there's a really the publisher. I was really really
2195
01:51:37.039 --> 01:51:39.279
happy with what they what they came up with.
2196
01:51:39.760 --> 01:51:42.159
Yeah, that's with Schiffer Publishing.
2197
01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:45.720
Nice. Okay, interesting. I'll put it next to my Samuel
2198
01:51:45.760 --> 01:51:51.840
Stewart book. Read that book, Gentry. It's great too.
2199
01:51:53.560 --> 01:51:55.039
I'm ready to expand my mind.
2200
01:51:55.119 --> 01:51:59.000
I'm oh, it's so good. History is really it covers
2201
01:51:59.039 --> 01:52:03.199
so much. It's not he was part of the S
2202
01:52:03.239 --> 01:52:06.039
and M world, the publishing world, the tattoo world. Like
2203
01:52:06.239 --> 01:52:09.359
he photographed. He was a big photographer, or he photographed
2204
01:52:09.359 --> 01:52:13.800
like rough trade and stuff like. His story is really wild.
2205
01:52:14.079 --> 01:52:17.600
He also was involved with hardcore. He wrote a hardcore
2206
01:52:17.640 --> 01:52:20.720
movie which is not good, but uh, it was stolen
2207
01:52:20.760 --> 01:52:23.439
from him basically. Yet it's yeah, you need that book.
2208
01:52:23.560 --> 01:52:25.199
It's very good. You don't have to you don't have
2209
01:52:25.279 --> 01:52:28.520
to be you as a straight man. You still like it.
2210
01:52:28.960 --> 01:52:32.680
I will say that pretty open minded. Anyway, Gentry, you're fine,
2211
01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:34.800
Yeah you are. I wouldn't be doing the show if
2212
01:52:34.840 --> 01:52:39.399
you weren't. That would be a very difficult show to do.
2213
01:52:40.640 --> 01:52:44.399
Now, the moral of this story is that you can
2214
01:52:44.439 --> 01:52:46.920
always learn more about people if you watch the face
2215
01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:55.960
rather than the backside.
2216
01:52:56.680 --> 01:52:58.079
What do you think, Jane, And do you have any
2217
01:52:58.159 --> 01:52:58.920
last thoughts?
2218
01:52:58.960 --> 01:53:05.119
Any favorite scene means Venus and furs as we close out, god.
2219
01:53:05.039 --> 01:53:07.920
You know everything. I really couldn't pick a favorite scene
2220
01:53:07.920 --> 01:53:09.760
in the movie. That's the funny thing is that first
2221
01:53:09.840 --> 01:53:12.000
I was saying, oh, well, you know, it starts off
2222
01:53:12.039 --> 01:53:13.560
so great, you know, and then it's like, oh, with
2223
01:53:13.600 --> 01:53:16.399
the subway scene, Oh no, wait, but all the girls
2224
01:53:16.520 --> 01:53:19.600
running out of the library. I mean just it. I
2225
01:53:20.279 --> 01:53:22.640
just loved it really from beginning to end. So thank
2226
01:53:22.680 --> 01:53:25.319
you so much for this recommendation, because it was really
2227
01:53:25.760 --> 01:53:27.680
an enjoyable and enjoyable watch.
2228
01:53:27.960 --> 01:53:30.720
And you said Rick liked it as well, right, yeah, yeah,
2229
01:53:30.880 --> 01:53:31.439
you loved it.
2230
01:53:31.760 --> 01:53:34.479
Actually we ended up watching it twice, so that was.
2231
01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:34.760
Yes.
2232
01:53:34.840 --> 01:53:38.880
Oh, it's very nice phrase. Yeah it is. It is,
2233
01:53:38.960 --> 01:53:41.079
and it's that's a I think about a lot of exploitation.
2234
01:53:41.840 --> 01:53:44.840
It's very it's short, and but then it's also a
2235
01:53:44.880 --> 01:53:47.640
situation where like sometimes you're like, Okay, this is the
2236
01:53:47.640 --> 01:53:50.600
perfect length, and sometimes you wish it was there was more.
2237
01:53:50.840 --> 01:53:52.399
You're like, okay, I could have I could have done
2238
01:53:52.439 --> 01:53:54.720
with like twenty more minutes like this just because you
2239
01:53:54.840 --> 01:53:56.960
like spending time with the people in the style is
2240
01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:57.920
really engrossing.
2241
01:53:58.520 --> 01:54:00.439
It's this is effect.
2242
01:54:00.560 --> 01:54:03.840
Yes, like you wish it was longer. Yeah, yeah, And
2243
01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:06.439
we've covered a few movies like that. We were just
2244
01:54:06.520 --> 01:54:09.079
kind of like, sixty two minutes not enough, and we
2245
01:54:09.119 --> 01:54:13.319
did like another fifteen Yeah, and there's some that yeah,
2246
01:54:13.680 --> 01:54:14.680
could have been forty five.
2247
01:54:15.319 --> 01:54:18.680
Yeah, that's for sure, that's sure.
2248
01:54:19.479 --> 01:54:22.199
Yes, Barry Mayhounds could have been thirty minutes. Yes, a
2249
01:54:22.239 --> 01:54:24.119
lot of those, A lot of those could have been
2250
01:54:24.119 --> 01:54:24.600
half an hour.
2251
01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:42.920
Do you think, o lea, maybe.
2252
01:55:42.640 --> 01:55:43.520
We just thought to you.
2253
01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:50.560
I thought with you as a run while. Wouldn't you
2254
01:55:50.640 --> 01:55:59.279
like to join? Thank you for listening to hear more
2255
01:55:59.319 --> 01:56:02.319
shows from this Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
2256
01:56:02.680 --> 01:56:04.399
Please select the link in the description.
2257
01:56:10.520 --> 01:56:12.680
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01:56:17.960 --> 01:56:20.760
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2260
01:56:20.760 --> 01:56:24.960
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01:56:24.960 --> 01:56:28.680
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01:56:37.600 --> 01:56:40.560
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01:56:44.000 --> 01:56:47.359
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Sure