Bryan Gorman: Well, welcome to the Shift Change podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. Excited to welcome Aaron Martin from Rain today ⁓ to the show. ⁓ welcome to the program, Aaron.
Aaron: Well, welcome to the Shift Change podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. Excited to welcome Aaron Martin from Rain today, ⁓ to the show. ⁓ welcome to the program, Aaron. Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here, but I appreciate it. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to ⁓ have you start and tell the listeners a little bit about you, what you do for rain, the the company, and and ⁓ just introduce yourself to the audience. Absolutely. So, you know,
Bryan Gorman: Hey, just a quick heads up before diving into Hey, just a quick heads up before diving into this week's episode of the Shift Change podcast. You may notice some audio quality issues on my end in this episode. I wanted to get this conversation out to you anyway because the content is just too good to hold back. But thank you for bearing with me and enjoy the show. Absolutely. Well love to ⁓ have you start and tell the listeners a little bit about you, what you do for Rain, the the company, and and ⁓ just introduce yourself to the audience.
Aaron: Full disclosure, I think you and I our companies have a little bit of a formal partnership, ⁓ where we kind of work together. But I I didn't get a chance to to meet you personally.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: Until you and I were ⁓ we were at a workforce management conference probably about a couple of months ago. Yes. And y it's it was funny because we were we were tapped to be NCs of the conference. And I think I met you probably the day before and we were kind talking about to run a show, but it was really interesting to to see someone ⁓ be as nervous as I was to do it. And it was it it was funny because we were both kind of sweating bullets and we're like, How are we gonna do this? What are we gonna do? But as we got into the conference, I think we we both settled in. I think we both had a good time.
Bryan Gorman: Yes. Yes.
Aaron: And I think they since invited us both back to do it again. Yes. you know, I I I work in the the the earned wage access industry. that essentially just gives employees access to their income in between pay periods so they can help, you know, make make ends ends meet. So I've been in the the fintech space, the payment space for about eight years now. So
Bryan Gorman: Yes.
Aaron: I run the enterprise sales team over here at Rain, but I I work with a lot of partners like like you all ⁓ and really you know my goal is to help people with you know financial literacy and financial insecurity and people that are underbanked and and things like that are struggling living the paycheck to paycheck. So it's definitely ⁓ sort of a a personal thing for me. ⁓ you know my my my my parents taught me a lot about really the benefit of financially secure ever since I was a little kid. And I we can we can get into that a little bit, but it's one of those things when I when I got in this industry and I saw like what this can do for people, it kind of spoke to me. So I've been doing this for a while now. ⁓ that's fantastic. Yeah, and I and I recall that ⁓ time we first met too. That was a great conference. And ⁓ you're right, we were both ⁓ sweatbulls, but ⁓ we pulled it off and it yeah, very, very cool. ⁓ yeah, so maybe tell the audience if if they don't know what ⁓ urn weight, urn wage accent is.
Bryan Gorman: ⁓ that's fantastic. Yeah, and I and I recall that ⁓ time we first met too. That was a great conference and ⁓ you're right. We were both ⁓ sweat and bullets, but ⁓ we pulled it off and it yeah, very, very cool. ⁓ yeah, so maybe tell the audience if if they don't know what Ur Earnway Urn Wage Acts is, maybe talk about what that what that means, what it is and ⁓ and what it does in the ⁓ in the industry.
Aaron: Maybe talk about what that what that means, what it is and and and what it does in the ⁓ in the industry. Yeah, so essentially, you know, kind of you know, ⁓ plus percent of of US workers are living paycheck to paycheck and kind of what's happening if you kind of helicopter up and like the overall economic view is our paychecks are getting really compressed. things like the cost of living or gas or groceries or tariffs are really putting a strain on on people's just day-to-day living. And and wages have been pretty flat, right? And so waiting two weeks to get paid or semi-monthly or whatever your pay cycle may be, there's a lot of bills and there's a lot of things that happen in between that time period, right? And so traditionally when employees have to wait to get paid And they have things that are piling up and hitting them in waves, they do do things that are really punitive. They start to use credit cards, credit card utilization is very high. They start to do things like payday loans. They start to do things like overdraft their bank account, which I think something like 9 billion in overdraft fees were collected last year. And it's it's one of those things that keeps them in a debt cycle. What that does for businesses and what we see is this great kind of job rotation. So employees are really scrambling to find a way to just get paid today. They're doing more gig economy work. ⁓ they're looking for jobs that give them pay advances or flexibility. ⁓ is kind of where earned wage access came in to kind of bridge that gap for them. And instead of saying, hey, employee, you have to wait two weeks or you have to wait till your traditional pay cycle, we understand that the economy grows and moves in the speed of now. And so we're gonna give them access to their earned wages in between pay periods. So they work, they clock a shift, they log in, they they clock in, clock out, ⁓ and they have some sort of balance for that day. Our technology sims. simply gives them access to that. Then if they're driving home and have a flat tire and they need money in an emergency, they can download our app and just say, hey, I've got a hundred dollars here. Let me use that to change my tire. And so it really helps employees get rid of these more putative measures and helps them get out of the debt cycle. But for the business too, it gives it essentially can make any business a gig economy business, which is great. No, absolutely.
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. And how does that work?
Aaron: How how does that work? Yeah, so so they they work with with companies ⁓ like Rain and it's a it's a it's a B2B to C solution. essentially the earn wage access provider plugs directly into ⁓ the employer's payroll and timekeeping system. And so they work with RAIN through or anyone in our industry through typically pre-built integration. So some of the most common HCM and payroll systems in this industry, we already have built-out APIs. so that it's a flip of a switch that if an employer, someone's in payroll, HR, CFO, and owner operator. ⁓ likes the benefit, they can turn it on in their current system. And every employee then has ⁓ a pay balance every day. ⁓ I I think for employers, they are ⁓ for really sort of unique ways ⁓ increase ⁓ employee engagement and limit the turnover. That is such a just a just a big thing in employee engagement turnover really across all industries. I think we saw coming out of COVID, we saw this this really big job rotation where people no longer had to work, you know, right where they lived. And the economy certainly opened up because there was this hybrid remote kind of work situation going on that led to this constant churn. And so now employees are looking for optionality. So the more benefits that you can give or the more options that you can provide employees, it helps them stick around with you a little bit longer. And when an employer sticks employee sticks around with the company, the company tends to grow. So that growth journey is something that sort of pay pay flex flexibility certainly can help with. ⁓ A hundred percent. ⁓ and although it it's interesting, right? Because typically when an employee has trouble with finances, ⁓
Bryan Gorman: ⁓
Aaron: They tend to suffer in silence. One of the things that that rain does is ⁓ we we s we sort of package all of the employee usage data and we give it to the employer. We anonymize it, but we we essentially tell employers on the benefits team or owner operators, ⁓ the people are using this benefit. And time and time again, ⁓ see the main three reasons are for bills, ⁓ transportation and food. So it's bare necessities. And ⁓ happens is employers don't really have those conversations with employees until it's too late, until it's exit interview time or you know they're leaving and they're they're seeing why they're leaving. sort of sticking with a company. ⁓ No one's gonna go to their employer and say, Hey, Brian, I can't pay my light bill, or I can't get to work today because the cost of gas doubled over the past couple. Like, no one's gonna have those conversations. They're gonna try to withdraw from their 401k. If they have one, they're gonna look for another opportunity to get some paid today. So when you offer something like this, overall employee engagement tends to increase. And it really becomes almost like a gamification of pay, like, meaning they'll download the platform, they'll clock in, clock out, and they'll just see. This balance shoot up, right? And then tomorrow they're gonna be like, ⁓ I wanna come back because I see this balance increase and I want to come on the weekends or Christmas Eve or whatever. I want to pick up an additional shift because I see I can make money immediately. Versus ⁓ in a traditional pace cycle. I mean, I remember, I mean, obviously I have rain because I'm a rain employee, but I remember working in more traditional sort of bi-weekly pay cadences. And every Thursday or Friday when I would get paid, I'd just see the balance decrease, right? Because the wife is gonna be paying bills and I got this for the kids and that, right? So this sort of benefit helps them be a little bit more engaged because they're more connected. to their pay and they're saying, ⁓ if I put in eight hours today or work this shift, I can make hundred bucks. Let's do this again. Right. And so that overall kind of helps employers kind of kind of grow because they're not, they're kind of curving a lot of the turnover. No, absolutely. And I think you made a good point too about financial literacy literacy?
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely. And I think you made a good point too about financial literacy earlier.
Aaron: Yeah, it's a that's a great that's a great question. And I I think traditionally speaking, I'm old, I don't wanna date myself, but ⁓ obviously like in school no one teaches you like the basics of financial literacy. ⁓ the calculus and all these other things. ⁓ I luckily, you know, my parents, you know, my my first job was delivering pizzas as a kid and I I remember my my dad telling me and by the way, my first job I just I I worked for tips, right? I worked for tips and free pizza. So they had me at pizza. But my dad told me, you know, you know, when you get paid, the first person that gets paid is you.
Bryan Gorman: Ha ha.
Aaron: And I was like, ⁓ what does that mean? He's like, when you get paid, the first person that should get paid is you. When you get older, you're gonna have all these bills and all these responsibilities. Don't forget to invest in yourself. And I was like, okay, I I didn't understand when I was, you know, 16, 17-year-old kid. And he's like, I'll show you. And so when I would get cash tips for a day, my dad would take half of the tips. And as a 17-year-old, it's like, Dad, that's my money, I wanna go. And he's like, hold on, right? And he would take half my tips, half my tips, half my tips. And I did this job for a summer. And I remember at the end of the summer, I think I s my dad had saved. He okay, let's calculate how much we saved. I think I'd saved something like $6,000 just in cash tips. And my dad was like, okay, now we're gonna put it in a bank account and we're gonna watch the interest grow. And I was like, as a kid, I was like, I thought I was rich. I was like, wait a minute, six fan, I'm getting Lexus truck, I'm getting the PlayStation, I'm getting all these things, right?
Bryan Gorman: Right. Yeah.
Aaron: But my dad just told me the importance of like putting money away, saving money, investing in your s in yourself, those sorts of things, and it's just sort of a basic, funny, funny story in a funny way. I say all that to say. I think employers, employees now are they get into the workforce and they're like ill equipped to deal with like when they get a paycheck, how this works, what is good debt, what is equity, how do you invest in long-term things like a 401k? And they just don't do these things. platform is unique in that, sure, we give them access to their earned income, right? If they want money, they need money. But we also have ⁓ embedded ⁓ financial ⁓ wellness agents the platform. platform. And so they'll look at your shift data, they'll look at your pay rates, they'll look at your spending trends, you can ask the agent questions like, hey, can I afford to buy a car this summer? Or ⁓ I go on vacation? Or when can I retire? And it looks at all your spending trends and it gives you a roadmap for things that you can do responsibly. When it when bills are coming due, if they know that you have a cell phone bill due on Tuesday, but you're not getting paid to Friday, they're gonna say, Do you want to make a transfer to cover your bills? Like these kind of things that aren't inherently native to certain people, we're trying to help them with that through the platform so that they're not just constantly transferring, but they're being more intentional with how they're planning. I think the younger workforce today doesn't look at financial planning and wellness as like a long-term play. It's more of a like a day-to-day week to week. They don't sit with the financial advisor or 401k advisor and map things out. It's more of a hey immediate. And so we try to put things in our platform to kind of meet employees where they're at. And you made a great point too about AI. And it seems like you can't turn the TV on or read something or go on YouTube or whatever. It's AI everywhere right now. And we're in we're getting summer twenty twenty six.
Bryan Gorman: ⁓ made a great point too about AI. And it seems like you can't turn the T V on or read something or go on YouTube or whatever. It's AI everywhere right now. And we're in we're getting summer twenty twenty six. So maybe talk a little bit about and
Aaron: So maybe talk a little bit about Yeah, it you know what's interesting. I I a few years ago, the first I remember when the first version of Chat GPT out, and I was kinda like, ⁓ this is not it's eerily similar to Google. Like it's kind of the same thing. And now with the version that's on now or Claude co-worker, all these things, it has scaled quickly. And it's you know, the rate of ⁓ change it's happening is ⁓ pretty it's mind blowing, right? And so I know for me, and I'm sure the same probably can be said for you, ⁓ you probably some of these tools to help you be more efficient in your job, right? And in your role. And when we think of like how financial planning works,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Aaron: We think that tools like this can not only help people get out of the debt cycle, but help them to create like wealth. if you're not utilizing these tools, I I think you're gonna kinda be left behind. And you'll see more platforms putting a gentic agentic agents in them. ⁓ To help people build like solid nest eggs or to help them understand what investments may be right for them or how much savings they can do or how much spending they should they should do. One of the first things that we added in our on our platform was just spending trends and just analyzing what you're doing and and you know how you're spending and what you're utilizing money on. Well well, what is that in practical terms? It's really a budget tool. But if I told someone I'm gonna give you a budget tool, they'll be like, ⁓ I don't want to use a spreadsheet or something. But if I said I'm gonna have an agentic agent walk you through what you're Spending and where you can save and how you can invest, etc., it's just it's a different approach. And so we're seeing more and more adoption of these tools from our end, but we also know that, like what the version of today looks like in a couple of weeks, in a couple months, in a couple years, it may look drastically different. And so we try to just again meet employees where they're at. Sure.
Bryan Gorman: Sure. So how how does it work? How d you get set up with using EWA?
Aaron: How how does it work? how do get set up with using EWA? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it I think it first starts with just kind of evaluating the tool. If you look at the market in general, I think by t by I think I read a statistic by 2030 it's going to be like a $26 billion ⁓ market earn wage access. So It's becoming table stakes now for employers, right? Like they, it's some of the the largest employers in the country are using some form of earned wage access. I say all that to say there's a lot of different providers out there. And it's really important for employers to understand what they want to get out of the benefit and really see what the different providers can offer and why. And I say all of that to say doing a little bit of homework up front will lead to better business outcomes on the back end. You really want someone who's gonna partner with you, you want a benefit that's gonna work for you now, ⁓ current state and in the future. So the first thing I always tell employees is just like just do your homework on the industry and on the benefit and on what's out there. we know that employer laws, employee laws differ from state to state. So is there benefit that can scale and you know, meet you where you're at now and in certain locations, et cetera? After you've your Homework and you want to deploy this. I think the biggest thing, Brian, for really any benefit or anything you do is like just having a comprehensive rollout plan. How are you going to communicate to your employees? What does the customer service mechanism look like? How do people how do people know this is available? When are you going to launch it? Are there any other initiatives within your company that you want to pair this with so that you can really supercharge things? I think all those questions really should be like thought through carefully. I've been on the the selling end for this for a long time. and the benefits that are most successful, like owner operators, HR personnel, payroll people, like think through how this can impact the company and their employees and are really thoughtful with a, with a rollout plan and a strategy behind that. After they do that, I mean it's as simple as turning it on, running a comms plan with your employees, and then measuring the effectiveness. Are you getting usage out of it? Do people know that it's there? If they have questions, how are they being resolved? All those things that you want to pressure test. And then I think the last thing you want to do is what are your KPIs, your OKRs for business? What are you looking to achieve? Are you looking for increased employee engagement, reduction in turnover? Are you looking for, you know, no more quiet quitting, etc.? Like all these things.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: things or you're trying to move the needle, they have a cost to them. you measuring the impact of the benefit? And is any vendor that you use helping you do this? ⁓ think those are some some key things that you have to consider before you just kind of hit the button and turn it on. But no matter what your your HCM or your payroll platform, typically they have native embedded solutions. So I think that's a good place to start. No, that that's great, great advice. ⁓ Maybe you share a story of a company that's using this service well?
Bryan Gorman: No, that that's great great advice. Ca maybe can you share a story of a company that's using this service well?
Aaron: my gosh. There are so many that are using this well. I I could give you a of different stories, but you know, I was I was talking to franchise ⁓ owner operator ⁓ recently and you know, he had about he had about I think he had eighteen locations, just over two thousand employees, so so relatively small size. he ⁓ he was in danger of closing two locations ⁓ and overall employee morale and the culture was pretty poor and they were worried about You know, just making in ends meet on the day day, cost of goods and services has gone up, right? ⁓ employee the employee market has been like extraordinarily diluted. He had really high turnover. And so we kind of work with him to like customize a communication plan for his employees to let them know this benefit was coming. And when I see like the best utilization of this, or when it works really well, you get a lot of input and you get a lot of engagement from the employer. And you really Almost work as a partner to help them with their business. I've seen it the other way where maybe it's more of a check-the-box thing and we turn it on and it performs pretty well. But I've seen it where it's really been supercharged. It's really helped employers to meet a lot of the challenges that they're meeting today. From an employer perspective, I see this a lot, but really, Brian, what like blows my mind. We get a lot of employees talking about how it's impacted them, how it's helped them. It's funny, I I just had to ⁓ a couple weeks ago, I just had a had to set up a reference call ⁓ the team evaluating this benefit wanted to hear from an employee user, which is kind of a reference call I don't really get that often. Usually I get like, can you match me with someone else in my industry or whatever? Yeah. And they wanted to hear an employee user, which was odd. And so set up this reference call ⁓ you know there were about seven so people on the buyer side. There was owner operator, there was payroll, there was some folks from HR talent acquisition benefits team. There was lot of people and I walked this user into the room ⁓
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. Interesting.
Aaron: And she was a single mom and she talked about how she uses rain to pay herself weekly, but she uses it for her daughter. when her school needs her to buy books, ⁓ they're going on a field trip, or she needs extra money in her account to buy food. Like, and she was going through how she uses this. ⁓ when I tell you on the other end of that call from the buyer side, like they were like in tears. They were like, really? Because ⁓ all rolled out other benefits in some way, shape, or form. And it didn't have that kind of impact on the employee. I think when we talk about numbers of recruiting, retention, employee engagement, or people living check to check, they Start to wash over you, but when you really hear like how people are using it the impact that it's having on like a real person's life, it like completely changes the entire narrative of what this can potentially do for a business. I say all that to say, ⁓ there are certain things from the business perspective we will absolutely help and drive. But when employee says on a call, like, I wouldn't work for this company if they didn't have a benefit like rate, it like really strikes a different chord.
Bryan Gorman: Mm. Hmm. No, absolutely. And and as you know, in my world too with payroll, there's so many options out there, right? So what makes Rain different from other EWA providers?
Aaron: Mm. No, absolutely. And and as you know, in my world too with payroll, there's so many options out there, right? So what makes Rain different from other EWA providers? Yeah, so my my history, ⁓ like I said, I I I've got about eight years in this space, so I I've come from ⁓ from two providers now, so this is my third. and I and I will say, ⁓ just on a surface, it's great when when people evaluate this benefit because it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna help their employees, it's gonna change your life, and it's gonna really change your trajectory of business. But I think what Rain does a little bit differently than other than other companies, I I think one of the things that we we hang our hat on is the support model. it's US based. ⁓ 247. We understand when people have questions about their pay, it is urgent, right? Because the usage data tells us that, right? It is they're using it in an emergency, they have to go to the hospital, they have to go to the vet, they've got a flat tire, what have you. they don't want to call a number ⁓ be met with an agent ⁓ be met with a switchboard or be able to get someone on the line. Why that's really important well is because when an employee has questions on their pay. And they can't get answered, what do they do? They start to call the payroll company or their benefits or their payroll provider or the benefits team, right? And so rain has made a significant investment in our customer service. we're able to respond with agility, ⁓ quickness, with kindness. Listen, we we've got rain for rain employees. And I've I I say this a lot in our sales calls. We have the best customer service, but I've tested it myself just to like put it to the test and make sure that like I'm we're backing up what I'm saying. And ⁓ enough, I asked the I I I called in the customer service and asked some questions, but I knew who I was speaking to. It was someone in our national office. We had a good laugh about it. She resolved my issue. But the point is, like us really investing in our customer support structure means we're essentially an extension of our employer partners. And we're starting and we we tell them, like, hey, we're the first line of defense. If your employee has questions, please like let them go to us. Like we want to make sure that they're not worried about their money. They're not worried about getting paid on time or why this looks different than that. Like we wanna we wanna feel those questions. I think that really does set Raid apart because it's a it's important to us and we've heard from our clients and our end users how important it is that someone's on the other end of phone. Very well said. I'm gonna flip gears on you a little bit. Yeah more of the fun questions. Okay. Not that they weren't fun, but these are fun questions. Sure. So favorite QSR brand. favorite brand. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Very well said. Now I'm gonna flip gears on you a little bit, make more of the fun questions, right? And they did not that they weren't fun, but these are fun questions. So favorite QSR brand. Yeah.
Aaron: Man, that's a great question. I'm gonna go with Chick-fil-a. Okay. Okay. And ⁓ what fast food item from your childhood do you wish they would bring back? that's a great question. I'm putting you on the spot, Zuly. You really are? I'm gonna man. ⁓
Bryan Gorman: Okay, okay. And ⁓ what fast food item from your childhood do you wish they would bring back? I'm putting you on the spot totally, just so our listeners know.
Aaron: I guess it comes back every now and then, but like my favorite as a kid was the McDonald's McRib. I haven't had one of those like 10 years. ⁓ Yeah. Well they just had the big worldwide conference ⁓ past week. So I wonder if they're talking about bringing that back for sure. Yeah. ⁓ okay, so if you if you had a theme song that you wanted to play as you drove through the drive-thru, what would it be?
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, it's been a sure. Yeah. Well they just had the big worldwide conference this past week, so I wonder if they're talking about bringing that back for sure. Yeah. ⁓ okay, so if you if you had a theme song that you wanted to play as you drove through the drive through, what would it be?
Aaron: ⁓ that's a great question. ⁓ theme song as I drove through the drive through. A a Chick fil A. A Chick-fil-A. gosh. Now you're you're getting me all all kinda I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go with
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron: I'm gonna say like I don't know, I'm a big I'm a big I'm a big Beyonce fan, so I'm gonna say some Beyonce. I don't know, she's got a ton of them, I but I like her and Jay-Z. I can't I can't say the name, but it's it's Ape H I T. It's Ape S blank. So I'll say that. That's a great song because ⁓ I t I I I try to not eat food like that often, but when I when I do I go ape crazy, we'll say. There you Yeah. That's awesome. And the last one, if you had to eat a meal for a week
Bryan Gorman: Okay. Okay, there you go. ⁓ There you go. That's awesome. And then and the last one, if you had to eat a meal for a week, but it couldn't be chick filet, you had to pick something different, what would it be and why?
Aaron: But it couldn't be pickfully to pick something different. ⁓ what would it be and why? ⁓ probably a quarter pounder with cheese for McDonald's and fries. ⁓ it's one of those things where like if I go to McDonald's and we we we travel a lot for for sports for my kids and you know when they're playing travel sports, always getting a quick meal or something in between like games.
Bryan Gorman: Okay, there you go. Classic. Yeah.
Aaron: ⁓ that's kind of like my go-to is a quarter pounder with cheese and fries. So if I had to eat it for a week, I don't think I would complain one bit. Very cool. You're off the hot seat there. Okay, cool. That was a lot. Awesome. ⁓ so to finish up, how how could ⁓ some if somebody wants to learn no learn more about EWA or about rain about you, Yeah, so al always visit our rain our our website, rainapp.us, on LinkedIn, I you know, I post there pretty often.
Bryan Gorman: Very cool. You're off the hot seat there. So awesome. ⁓ so to finish up, how how could ⁓ some if somebody wants to learn no loop learn more about EWA or about Rain about you, how
Aaron: And just more more thought leadership stuff about what's going on in the industry. and and Rain does ⁓ really of front and center in a lot of the big conferences, a lot of the QSR conferences, a lot of the the Sherms and the payroll congresses of the world, like We we really from a brand perspective, we're really out there trying to educate people on how this benefit works. For an employer, it is completely free to offer. so you know, visit our site. ⁓ we're happy to to walk you through a a demonstration of what it looks like, how it could potentially help, how it can integrate with your systems. And we have a ton of great partners, Brian, like you, like, like you guys have been a great partner of ours. And so we really do like to collaborate when when speaking to clients. So ⁓ talk to your payroll and HCM platform about about benefits like this.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome, wonderful. Well Aaron Martin, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. We'll enjoyed it. And thanks for being on the podcast.
Aaron: Awesome. Wonderful. Well, Aaron Martin, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. We've enjoyed it. And thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me, Brian. Hope to see soon. All right. Thanks. All right, buddy.
Bryan Gorman: All right, thanks.
Aaron: Well, welcome to the Shift Change podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gorman. Excited to welcome Aaron Martin from Rain today, ⁓ to the show. ⁓ welcome to the program, Aaron. Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here, but I appreciate it. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to ⁓ have you start and tell the listeners a little bit about you, what you do for rain, the the company, and and ⁓ just introduce yourself to the audience. Absolutely. So, you know,
Bryan Gorman: Hey, just a quick heads up before diving into Hey, just a quick heads up before diving into this week's episode of the Shift Change podcast. You may notice some audio quality issues on my end in this episode. I wanted to get this conversation out to you anyway because the content is just too good to hold back. But thank you for bearing with me and enjoy the show. Absolutely. Well love to ⁓ have you start and tell the listeners a little bit about you, what you do for Rain, the the company, and and ⁓ just introduce yourself to the audience.
Aaron: Full disclosure, I think you and I our companies have a little bit of a formal partnership, ⁓ where we kind of work together. But I I didn't get a chance to to meet you personally.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: Until you and I were ⁓ we were at a workforce management conference probably about a couple of months ago. Yes. And y it's it was funny because we were we were tapped to be NCs of the conference. And I think I met you probably the day before and we were kind talking about to run a show, but it was really interesting to to see someone ⁓ be as nervous as I was to do it. And it was it it was funny because we were both kind of sweating bullets and we're like, How are we gonna do this? What are we gonna do? But as we got into the conference, I think we we both settled in. I think we both had a good time.
Bryan Gorman: Yes. Yes.
Aaron: And I think they since invited us both back to do it again. Yes. you know, I I I work in the the the earned wage access industry. that essentially just gives employees access to their income in between pay periods so they can help, you know, make make ends ends meet. So I've been in the the fintech space, the payment space for about eight years now. So
Bryan Gorman: Yes.
Aaron: I run the enterprise sales team over here at Rain, but I I work with a lot of partners like like you all ⁓ and really you know my goal is to help people with you know financial literacy and financial insecurity and people that are underbanked and and things like that are struggling living the paycheck to paycheck. So it's definitely ⁓ sort of a a personal thing for me. ⁓ you know my my my my parents taught me a lot about really the benefit of financially secure ever since I was a little kid. And I we can we can get into that a little bit, but it's one of those things when I when I got in this industry and I saw like what this can do for people, it kind of spoke to me. So I've been doing this for a while now. ⁓ that's fantastic. Yeah, and I and I recall that ⁓ time we first met too. That was a great conference. And ⁓ you're right, we were both ⁓ sweatbulls, but ⁓ we pulled it off and it yeah, very, very cool. ⁓ yeah, so maybe tell the audience if if they don't know what ⁓ urn weight, urn wage accent is.
Bryan Gorman: ⁓ that's fantastic. Yeah, and I and I recall that ⁓ time we first met too. That was a great conference and ⁓ you're right. We were both ⁓ sweat and bullets, but ⁓ we pulled it off and it yeah, very, very cool. ⁓ yeah, so maybe tell the audience if if they don't know what Ur Earnway Urn Wage Acts is, maybe talk about what that what that means, what it is and ⁓ and what it does in the ⁓ in the industry.
Aaron: Maybe talk about what that what that means, what it is and and and what it does in the ⁓ in the industry. Yeah, so essentially, you know, kind of you know, ⁓ plus percent of of US workers are living paycheck to paycheck and kind of what's happening if you kind of helicopter up and like the overall economic view is our paychecks are getting really compressed. things like the cost of living or gas or groceries or tariffs are really putting a strain on on people's just day-to-day living. And and wages have been pretty flat, right? And so waiting two weeks to get paid or semi-monthly or whatever your pay cycle may be, there's a lot of bills and there's a lot of things that happen in between that time period, right? And so traditionally when employees have to wait to get paid And they have things that are piling up and hitting them in waves, they do do things that are really punitive. They start to use credit cards, credit card utilization is very high. They start to do things like payday loans. They start to do things like overdraft their bank account, which I think something like 9 billion in overdraft fees were collected last year. And it's it's one of those things that keeps them in a debt cycle. What that does for businesses and what we see is this great kind of job rotation. So employees are really scrambling to find a way to just get paid today. They're doing more gig economy work. ⁓ they're looking for jobs that give them pay advances or flexibility. ⁓ is kind of where earned wage access came in to kind of bridge that gap for them. And instead of saying, hey, employee, you have to wait two weeks or you have to wait till your traditional pay cycle, we understand that the economy grows and moves in the speed of now. And so we're gonna give them access to their earned wages in between pay periods. So they work, they clock a shift, they log in, they they clock in, clock out, ⁓ and they have some sort of balance for that day. Our technology sims. simply gives them access to that. Then if they're driving home and have a flat tire and they need money in an emergency, they can download our app and just say, hey, I've got a hundred dollars here. Let me use that to change my tire. And so it really helps employees get rid of these more putative measures and helps them get out of the debt cycle. But for the business too, it gives it essentially can make any business a gig economy business, which is great. No, absolutely.
Bryan Gorman: No, absolutely. And how does that work?
Aaron: How how does that work? Yeah, so so they they work with with companies ⁓ like Rain and it's a it's a it's a B2B to C solution. essentially the earn wage access provider plugs directly into ⁓ the employer's payroll and timekeeping system. And so they work with RAIN through or anyone in our industry through typically pre-built integration. So some of the most common HCM and payroll systems in this industry, we already have built-out APIs. so that it's a flip of a switch that if an employer, someone's in payroll, HR, CFO, and owner operator. ⁓ likes the benefit, they can turn it on in their current system. And every employee then has ⁓ a pay balance every day. ⁓ I I think for employers, they are ⁓ for really sort of unique ways ⁓ increase ⁓ employee engagement and limit the turnover. That is such a just a just a big thing in employee engagement turnover really across all industries. I think we saw coming out of COVID, we saw this this really big job rotation where people no longer had to work, you know, right where they lived. And the economy certainly opened up because there was this hybrid remote kind of work situation going on that led to this constant churn. And so now employees are looking for optionality. So the more benefits that you can give or the more options that you can provide employees, it helps them stick around with you a little bit longer. And when an employer sticks employee sticks around with the company, the company tends to grow. So that growth journey is something that sort of pay pay flex flexibility certainly can help with. ⁓ A hundred percent. ⁓ and although it it's interesting, right? Because typically when an employee has trouble with finances, ⁓
Bryan Gorman: ⁓
Aaron: They tend to suffer in silence. One of the things that that rain does is ⁓ we we s we sort of package all of the employee usage data and we give it to the employer. We anonymize it, but we we essentially tell employers on the benefits team or owner operators, ⁓ the people are using this benefit. And time and time again, ⁓ see the main three reasons are for bills, ⁓ transportation and food. So it's bare necessities. And ⁓ happens is employers don't really have those conversations with employees until it's too late, until it's exit interview time or you know they're leaving and they're they're seeing why they're leaving. sort of sticking with a company. ⁓ No one's gonna go to their employer and say, Hey, Brian, I can't pay my light bill, or I can't get to work today because the cost of gas doubled over the past couple. Like, no one's gonna have those conversations. They're gonna try to withdraw from their 401k. If they have one, they're gonna look for another opportunity to get some paid today. So when you offer something like this, overall employee engagement tends to increase. And it really becomes almost like a gamification of pay, like, meaning they'll download the platform, they'll clock in, clock out, and they'll just see. This balance shoot up, right? And then tomorrow they're gonna be like, ⁓ I wanna come back because I see this balance increase and I want to come on the weekends or Christmas Eve or whatever. I want to pick up an additional shift because I see I can make money immediately. Versus ⁓ in a traditional pace cycle. I mean, I remember, I mean, obviously I have rain because I'm a rain employee, but I remember working in more traditional sort of bi-weekly pay cadences. And every Thursday or Friday when I would get paid, I'd just see the balance decrease, right? Because the wife is gonna be paying bills and I got this for the kids and that, right? So this sort of benefit helps them be a little bit more engaged because they're more connected. to their pay and they're saying, ⁓ if I put in eight hours today or work this shift, I can make hundred bucks. Let's do this again. Right. And so that overall kind of helps employers kind of kind of grow because they're not, they're kind of curving a lot of the turnover. No, absolutely. And I think you made a good point too about financial literacy literacy?
Bryan Gorman: Absolutely. And I think you made a good point too about financial literacy earlier.
Aaron: Yeah, it's a that's a great that's a great question. And I I think traditionally speaking, I'm old, I don't wanna date myself, but ⁓ obviously like in school no one teaches you like the basics of financial literacy. ⁓ the calculus and all these other things. ⁓ I luckily, you know, my parents, you know, my my first job was delivering pizzas as a kid and I I remember my my dad telling me and by the way, my first job I just I I worked for tips, right? I worked for tips and free pizza. So they had me at pizza. But my dad told me, you know, you know, when you get paid, the first person that gets paid is you.
Bryan Gorman: Ha ha.
Aaron: And I was like, ⁓ what does that mean? He's like, when you get paid, the first person that should get paid is you. When you get older, you're gonna have all these bills and all these responsibilities. Don't forget to invest in yourself. And I was like, okay, I I didn't understand when I was, you know, 16, 17-year-old kid. And he's like, I'll show you. And so when I would get cash tips for a day, my dad would take half of the tips. And as a 17-year-old, it's like, Dad, that's my money, I wanna go. And he's like, hold on, right? And he would take half my tips, half my tips, half my tips. And I did this job for a summer. And I remember at the end of the summer, I think I s my dad had saved. He okay, let's calculate how much we saved. I think I'd saved something like $6,000 just in cash tips. And my dad was like, okay, now we're gonna put it in a bank account and we're gonna watch the interest grow. And I was like, as a kid, I was like, I thought I was rich. I was like, wait a minute, six fan, I'm getting Lexus truck, I'm getting the PlayStation, I'm getting all these things, right?
Bryan Gorman: Right. Yeah.
Aaron: But my dad just told me the importance of like putting money away, saving money, investing in your s in yourself, those sorts of things, and it's just sort of a basic, funny, funny story in a funny way. I say all that to say. I think employers, employees now are they get into the workforce and they're like ill equipped to deal with like when they get a paycheck, how this works, what is good debt, what is equity, how do you invest in long-term things like a 401k? And they just don't do these things. platform is unique in that, sure, we give them access to their earned income, right? If they want money, they need money. But we also have ⁓ embedded ⁓ financial ⁓ wellness agents the platform. platform. And so they'll look at your shift data, they'll look at your pay rates, they'll look at your spending trends, you can ask the agent questions like, hey, can I afford to buy a car this summer? Or ⁓ I go on vacation? Or when can I retire? And it looks at all your spending trends and it gives you a roadmap for things that you can do responsibly. When it when bills are coming due, if they know that you have a cell phone bill due on Tuesday, but you're not getting paid to Friday, they're gonna say, Do you want to make a transfer to cover your bills? Like these kind of things that aren't inherently native to certain people, we're trying to help them with that through the platform so that they're not just constantly transferring, but they're being more intentional with how they're planning. I think the younger workforce today doesn't look at financial planning and wellness as like a long-term play. It's more of a like a day-to-day week to week. They don't sit with the financial advisor or 401k advisor and map things out. It's more of a hey immediate. And so we try to put things in our platform to kind of meet employees where they're at. And you made a great point too about AI. And it seems like you can't turn the TV on or read something or go on YouTube or whatever. It's AI everywhere right now. And we're in we're getting summer twenty twenty six.
Bryan Gorman: ⁓ made a great point too about AI. And it seems like you can't turn the T V on or read something or go on YouTube or whatever. It's AI everywhere right now. And we're in we're getting summer twenty twenty six. So maybe talk a little bit about and
Aaron: So maybe talk a little bit about Yeah, it you know what's interesting. I I a few years ago, the first I remember when the first version of Chat GPT out, and I was kinda like, ⁓ this is not it's eerily similar to Google. Like it's kind of the same thing. And now with the version that's on now or Claude co-worker, all these things, it has scaled quickly. And it's you know, the rate of ⁓ change it's happening is ⁓ pretty it's mind blowing, right? And so I know for me, and I'm sure the same probably can be said for you, ⁓ you probably some of these tools to help you be more efficient in your job, right? And in your role. And when we think of like how financial planning works,
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Aaron: We think that tools like this can not only help people get out of the debt cycle, but help them to create like wealth. if you're not utilizing these tools, I I think you're gonna kinda be left behind. And you'll see more platforms putting a gentic agentic agents in them. ⁓ To help people build like solid nest eggs or to help them understand what investments may be right for them or how much savings they can do or how much spending they should they should do. One of the first things that we added in our on our platform was just spending trends and just analyzing what you're doing and and you know how you're spending and what you're utilizing money on. Well well, what is that in practical terms? It's really a budget tool. But if I told someone I'm gonna give you a budget tool, they'll be like, ⁓ I don't want to use a spreadsheet or something. But if I said I'm gonna have an agentic agent walk you through what you're Spending and where you can save and how you can invest, etc., it's just it's a different approach. And so we're seeing more and more adoption of these tools from our end, but we also know that, like what the version of today looks like in a couple of weeks, in a couple months, in a couple years, it may look drastically different. And so we try to just again meet employees where they're at. Sure.
Bryan Gorman: Sure. So how how does it work? How d you get set up with using EWA?
Aaron: How how does it work? how do get set up with using EWA? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it I think it first starts with just kind of evaluating the tool. If you look at the market in general, I think by t by I think I read a statistic by 2030 it's going to be like a $26 billion ⁓ market earn wage access. So It's becoming table stakes now for employers, right? Like they, it's some of the the largest employers in the country are using some form of earned wage access. I say all that to say there's a lot of different providers out there. And it's really important for employers to understand what they want to get out of the benefit and really see what the different providers can offer and why. And I say all of that to say doing a little bit of homework up front will lead to better business outcomes on the back end. You really want someone who's gonna partner with you, you want a benefit that's gonna work for you now, ⁓ current state and in the future. So the first thing I always tell employees is just like just do your homework on the industry and on the benefit and on what's out there. we know that employer laws, employee laws differ from state to state. So is there benefit that can scale and you know, meet you where you're at now and in certain locations, et cetera? After you've your Homework and you want to deploy this. I think the biggest thing, Brian, for really any benefit or anything you do is like just having a comprehensive rollout plan. How are you going to communicate to your employees? What does the customer service mechanism look like? How do people how do people know this is available? When are you going to launch it? Are there any other initiatives within your company that you want to pair this with so that you can really supercharge things? I think all those questions really should be like thought through carefully. I've been on the the selling end for this for a long time. and the benefits that are most successful, like owner operators, HR personnel, payroll people, like think through how this can impact the company and their employees and are really thoughtful with a, with a rollout plan and a strategy behind that. After they do that, I mean it's as simple as turning it on, running a comms plan with your employees, and then measuring the effectiveness. Are you getting usage out of it? Do people know that it's there? If they have questions, how are they being resolved? All those things that you want to pressure test. And then I think the last thing you want to do is what are your KPIs, your OKRs for business? What are you looking to achieve? Are you looking for increased employee engagement, reduction in turnover? Are you looking for, you know, no more quiet quitting, etc.? Like all these things.
Bryan Gorman: Mm-hmm.
Aaron: things or you're trying to move the needle, they have a cost to them. you measuring the impact of the benefit? And is any vendor that you use helping you do this? ⁓ think those are some some key things that you have to consider before you just kind of hit the button and turn it on. But no matter what your your HCM or your payroll platform, typically they have native embedded solutions. So I think that's a good place to start. No, that that's great, great advice. ⁓ Maybe you share a story of a company that's using this service well?
Bryan Gorman: No, that that's great great advice. Ca maybe can you share a story of a company that's using this service well?
Aaron: my gosh. There are so many that are using this well. I I could give you a of different stories, but you know, I was I was talking to franchise ⁓ owner operator ⁓ recently and you know, he had about he had about I think he had eighteen locations, just over two thousand employees, so so relatively small size. he ⁓ he was in danger of closing two locations ⁓ and overall employee morale and the culture was pretty poor and they were worried about You know, just making in ends meet on the day day, cost of goods and services has gone up, right? ⁓ employee the employee market has been like extraordinarily diluted. He had really high turnover. And so we kind of work with him to like customize a communication plan for his employees to let them know this benefit was coming. And when I see like the best utilization of this, or when it works really well, you get a lot of input and you get a lot of engagement from the employer. And you really Almost work as a partner to help them with their business. I've seen it the other way where maybe it's more of a check-the-box thing and we turn it on and it performs pretty well. But I've seen it where it's really been supercharged. It's really helped employers to meet a lot of the challenges that they're meeting today. From an employer perspective, I see this a lot, but really, Brian, what like blows my mind. We get a lot of employees talking about how it's impacted them, how it's helped them. It's funny, I I just had to ⁓ a couple weeks ago, I just had a had to set up a reference call ⁓ the team evaluating this benefit wanted to hear from an employee user, which is kind of a reference call I don't really get that often. Usually I get like, can you match me with someone else in my industry or whatever? Yeah. And they wanted to hear an employee user, which was odd. And so set up this reference call ⁓ you know there were about seven so people on the buyer side. There was owner operator, there was payroll, there was some folks from HR talent acquisition benefits team. There was lot of people and I walked this user into the room ⁓
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. Interesting.
Aaron: And she was a single mom and she talked about how she uses rain to pay herself weekly, but she uses it for her daughter. when her school needs her to buy books, ⁓ they're going on a field trip, or she needs extra money in her account to buy food. Like, and she was going through how she uses this. ⁓ when I tell you on the other end of that call from the buyer side, like they were like in tears. They were like, really? Because ⁓ all rolled out other benefits in some way, shape, or form. And it didn't have that kind of impact on the employee. I think when we talk about numbers of recruiting, retention, employee engagement, or people living check to check, they Start to wash over you, but when you really hear like how people are using it the impact that it's having on like a real person's life, it like completely changes the entire narrative of what this can potentially do for a business. I say all that to say, ⁓ there are certain things from the business perspective we will absolutely help and drive. But when employee says on a call, like, I wouldn't work for this company if they didn't have a benefit like rate, it like really strikes a different chord.
Bryan Gorman: Mm. Hmm. No, absolutely. And and as you know, in my world too with payroll, there's so many options out there, right? So what makes Rain different from other EWA providers?
Aaron: Mm. No, absolutely. And and as you know, in my world too with payroll, there's so many options out there, right? So what makes Rain different from other EWA providers? Yeah, so my my history, ⁓ like I said, I I I've got about eight years in this space, so I I've come from ⁓ from two providers now, so this is my third. and I and I will say, ⁓ just on a surface, it's great when when people evaluate this benefit because it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna help their employees, it's gonna change your life, and it's gonna really change your trajectory of business. But I think what Rain does a little bit differently than other than other companies, I I think one of the things that we we hang our hat on is the support model. it's US based. ⁓ 247. We understand when people have questions about their pay, it is urgent, right? Because the usage data tells us that, right? It is they're using it in an emergency, they have to go to the hospital, they have to go to the vet, they've got a flat tire, what have you. they don't want to call a number ⁓ be met with an agent ⁓ be met with a switchboard or be able to get someone on the line. Why that's really important well is because when an employee has questions on their pay. And they can't get answered, what do they do? They start to call the payroll company or their benefits or their payroll provider or the benefits team, right? And so rain has made a significant investment in our customer service. we're able to respond with agility, ⁓ quickness, with kindness. Listen, we we've got rain for rain employees. And I've I I say this a lot in our sales calls. We have the best customer service, but I've tested it myself just to like put it to the test and make sure that like I'm we're backing up what I'm saying. And ⁓ enough, I asked the I I I called in the customer service and asked some questions, but I knew who I was speaking to. It was someone in our national office. We had a good laugh about it. She resolved my issue. But the point is, like us really investing in our customer support structure means we're essentially an extension of our employer partners. And we're starting and we we tell them, like, hey, we're the first line of defense. If your employee has questions, please like let them go to us. Like we want to make sure that they're not worried about their money. They're not worried about getting paid on time or why this looks different than that. Like we wanna we wanna feel those questions. I think that really does set Raid apart because it's a it's important to us and we've heard from our clients and our end users how important it is that someone's on the other end of phone. Very well said. I'm gonna flip gears on you a little bit. Yeah more of the fun questions. Okay. Not that they weren't fun, but these are fun questions. Sure. So favorite QSR brand. favorite brand. Yeah.
Bryan Gorman: Very well said. Now I'm gonna flip gears on you a little bit, make more of the fun questions, right? And they did not that they weren't fun, but these are fun questions. So favorite QSR brand. Yeah.
Aaron: Man, that's a great question. I'm gonna go with Chick-fil-a. Okay. Okay. And ⁓ what fast food item from your childhood do you wish they would bring back? that's a great question. I'm putting you on the spot, Zuly. You really are? I'm gonna man. ⁓
Bryan Gorman: Okay, okay. And ⁓ what fast food item from your childhood do you wish they would bring back? I'm putting you on the spot totally, just so our listeners know.
Aaron: I guess it comes back every now and then, but like my favorite as a kid was the McDonald's McRib. I haven't had one of those like 10 years. ⁓ Yeah. Well they just had the big worldwide conference ⁓ past week. So I wonder if they're talking about bringing that back for sure. Yeah. ⁓ okay, so if you if you had a theme song that you wanted to play as you drove through the drive-thru, what would it be?
Bryan Gorman: Yeah, it's been a sure. Yeah. Well they just had the big worldwide conference this past week, so I wonder if they're talking about bringing that back for sure. Yeah. ⁓ okay, so if you if you had a theme song that you wanted to play as you drove through the drive through, what would it be?
Aaron: ⁓ that's a great question. ⁓ theme song as I drove through the drive through. A a Chick fil A. A Chick-fil-A. gosh. Now you're you're getting me all all kinda I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go with
Bryan Gorman: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron: I'm gonna say like I don't know, I'm a big I'm a big I'm a big Beyonce fan, so I'm gonna say some Beyonce. I don't know, she's got a ton of them, I but I like her and Jay-Z. I can't I can't say the name, but it's it's Ape H I T. It's Ape S blank. So I'll say that. That's a great song because ⁓ I t I I I try to not eat food like that often, but when I when I do I go ape crazy, we'll say. There you Yeah. That's awesome. And the last one, if you had to eat a meal for a week
Bryan Gorman: Okay. Okay, there you go. ⁓ There you go. That's awesome. And then and the last one, if you had to eat a meal for a week, but it couldn't be chick filet, you had to pick something different, what would it be and why?
Aaron: But it couldn't be pickfully to pick something different. ⁓ what would it be and why? ⁓ probably a quarter pounder with cheese for McDonald's and fries. ⁓ it's one of those things where like if I go to McDonald's and we we we travel a lot for for sports for my kids and you know when they're playing travel sports, always getting a quick meal or something in between like games.
Bryan Gorman: Okay, there you go. Classic. Yeah.
Aaron: ⁓ that's kind of like my go-to is a quarter pounder with cheese and fries. So if I had to eat it for a week, I don't think I would complain one bit. Very cool. You're off the hot seat there. Okay, cool. That was a lot. Awesome. ⁓ so to finish up, how how could ⁓ some if somebody wants to learn no learn more about EWA or about rain about you, Yeah, so al always visit our rain our our website, rainapp.us, on LinkedIn, I you know, I post there pretty often.
Bryan Gorman: Very cool. You're off the hot seat there. So awesome. ⁓ so to finish up, how how could ⁓ some if somebody wants to learn no loop learn more about EWA or about Rain about you, how
Aaron: And just more more thought leadership stuff about what's going on in the industry. and and Rain does ⁓ really of front and center in a lot of the big conferences, a lot of the QSR conferences, a lot of the the Sherms and the payroll congresses of the world, like We we really from a brand perspective, we're really out there trying to educate people on how this benefit works. For an employer, it is completely free to offer. so you know, visit our site. ⁓ we're happy to to walk you through a a demonstration of what it looks like, how it could potentially help, how it can integrate with your systems. And we have a ton of great partners, Brian, like you, like, like you guys have been a great partner of ours. And so we really do like to collaborate when when speaking to clients. So ⁓ talk to your payroll and HCM platform about about benefits like this.
Bryan Gorman: Awesome, wonderful. Well Aaron Martin, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. We'll enjoyed it. And thanks for being on the podcast.
Aaron: Awesome. Wonderful. Well, Aaron Martin, thanks so much. Appreciate your time. We've enjoyed it. And thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me, Brian. Hope to see soon. All right. Thanks. All right, buddy.
Bryan Gorman: All right, thanks.
