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Okay, welcome back everybody to the Self-Directed Edge podcast.
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I am your host, Joel Landon with Heritage IRA.
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And today I've got an awesome guest with us.
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I've got Miguel Paracentala Centala.
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I almost said Santaya, which is the correct way to say it, uh, from the Wyomeser.
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Uh Miguel, welcome.
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Happy to have you on the show.
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Hey, thank you for having me, Joel.
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Absolutely.
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Welcome to the Self-Directed Edge, the podcast for investors who want their retirement capital doing more than sitting in the market.
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I'm your host, Joel Landon with Heritage IRA.
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Um, so as everybody is aware that listens to our podcast, we like to bring in guests on a weekly basis in specific industries that are unique from one another to teach us a little bit about their craft, their specialty, their industry, their expertise.
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Uh so today I've I've brought in Miguel so that he can shed some light on uh the idea of a precious metals depository.
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And this is the first time for us on the Self-Directed Edge podcast to have a guest like you, Miguel.
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So I'm excited to hear, to learn myself.
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And uh, I know that our listeners are going to walk away with a lot of value add.
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So if you're okay with it, let's just get right into it.
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I'll ask you some questions.
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The first few questions uh will give you a chance to talk about the Wyoming Reserve as well as yourself.
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So uh with that being said, Miguel, for listeners who may be unfamiliar with the Wyoming Reserve, what is it and what led to its creation?
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Well, the Wyoming Reserve is a business and it's an operating business.
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It runs a vault and also manages precious metals on its balance sheet.
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But for our listeners who are interested in the vaulting side, we do take uh private investor storage, and we also are focused on business to business.
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So most of our business is commercial business, but we do take third-party storage of private investors.
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And so that's the way the business came into being, really, is the CEO and two founding members, so there's three founding members, came up with this idea when the Scottsdale Mint bought a building in Casper, Wyoming, and they're moving up here, and they had the idea for this business of vaulting business that managed precious metals investment.
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And that's how we came into being.
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So I'm the first employee of that company, which is the Wyoming Reserve.
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The full name of the company is the Wyoming Reserve Opportunity Zone Fund Corporation.
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Fantastic.
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And a lot to unpack there.
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I know some of my upcoming questions are going to help the listener uh understand that even more.
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So we'll distill everything that you've mentioned there.
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And um, of course, you know, you said you're one of the first employees, but let's be honest, you're definitely not new to the industry.
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So if you wouldn't mind, I know you've spent decades uh in the precious metals space.
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Uh what have you learned about how investors and institutions approach precious metals?
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Well, first off, it it there's lots of ways to look at precious metals.
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So I've been in the industry for over 40 years.
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I started in a vault in 29 Broadway, New York City.
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So as a kid, 18 years old.
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So I've been in for quite a long time.
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In terms of how investors and institutions, it all depends what institutions you're talking about.
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Remember, precious metals are also a commodity that's actually used in the manufacture of goods and services.
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So there's every cell phone has precious metals in it.
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Every uh gas combustion engine has autocatalyst which has precious metals in it.
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So there's precious metals all around us.
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Every contact has precious metals in it, electrical contacts has some quantity of precious metals.
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So you have the whole manufacturing side.
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So there's people investing and buying in the marketplace, an activity going on in the marketplace that is industrial.
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Okay, it's really consumers using it, and of course, you have the jewelry industry as well.
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So that's a big taker of gold and silver and platinum.
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So that's one section.
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And then you have so then you're talking about investors and institutional, all right.
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So now we're you're talking about institutional investment companies, right?
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So typically a lot of the institutional companies in precious metals are more are buying like ETFs, right?
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Which is exchange traded funds.
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Yep.
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And even some private investors buy those as well.
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Now the thing is the ETFs are a wasting asset.
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What do I mean by that they're a wasting asset?
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Is that their their fees are actually pretty high.
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And because of that, the price is always going lower.
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So when you look at the price of ETF, it's always you know discounted to what the spot price is of the market price.
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So the market price of gold or silver would be higher than the ETF because the ETF is a wasting asset.
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So you're they're always paying management fees and it's coming out of the fund.
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But when you store physical metals, you can shop around and hold your metals wherever you want and pay the right storage fee because you're managing it yourself.
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And so that's why people who get into self-directed IRAs, for instance, are managing their own expenses, managing their own investment, and that's how they avoid paying the higher fee of the ETFs.
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But of course, there's give and take and everything because you have liquidity.
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Physical metals are liquid, but you have instant liquidity, let's say, on something that's on the exchange, right?
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You press a button nowadays and you buy and sell, right?
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But uh when you have physical, you have to make the arrangement and buy and sell with a with a counterparty that you trust and then get paid.
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And and that's the way that process works currently.
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Okay, fantastic, awesome.
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And yeah, I I wanted to use the term decades of experience.
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I didn't want to age you, but you kind of aged yourself by saying four years.
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And I love that, but uh it's important that our listener knows that because obviously you've got the credibility, right, to to talk to this topic.
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So I appreciate you kind of breaking that down for us.
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And um, it didn't dawn on me really how many layers there are for a company like the Wyoming Reserve.
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You talked about manufacturing industry, uh, you talked about um just individuals even owning the metals and ultimately how um it's a commodity, right?
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It's a it's a commodity that's that's traded.
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Um, I'd like to dig a little bit deeper uh into these topics here.
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And um, you know, I'm really curious about you know the the metals depository as a whole.
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Um, you know, what it is, how is it different from keeping gold or silver at home or in a bank safe deposit?
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And now now we're looking at this from like the the guy down the street or you know, the husband and wife.
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So currently, since we launched uh four years ago, and we've been growing steadily.
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This is a a secure, high-value vault.
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All right, so we have cameras everywhere.
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The building is, you know, you'd have to bomb it to try and get into the building.
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And we have four police stations around us that if we their response time is under five minutes if some of our alarm store to go off.
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Okay.
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Um, we have a class three vault, which would literally take like six hours to drill a hole this big through the wall.
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And by then, of course, the police are all over the place, even if you started.
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But it it's not gonna happen.
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That that's how secure this vault is.
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We're in this the structure itself is a is a cement building, 50,000 square feet currently, which we're building out to 70,000.
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Well, Scottsdale Mint is they're also co-located in our vault in in the building, I'm saying.
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And so we have Wyoming Reserve is a completely separate company that we leave space here.
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So, what's important to know for the individual as an investor?
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What's the difference about having gold in your home, in the bank, or in this vault?
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I'll tell you it's very simple.
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It's called security and safety.
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First off, in the home, all right.
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You want to have a few ounces of gold and s and silver just in case you think there might be a need to raise cash really quick.
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Okay.
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But the thing is, the more value you have in your home, the more risk you're taking on, not just about losing the metals, but about the risk of someone finding out and putting your family at risk.
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Right.
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And so is the money worth it to put your family at risk if someone comes in and finds out and they charge in trying to steal your metal and then they threaten you and your family?
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No, it's not worth the risk, especially when the cost of storage is not that high.
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So we charge right now, you know.
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So, you know, heritage IRA will charge their fee for managing the storage and costs like that.
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So they should contact you if they want to store it to YOM Reserve.
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But it's really not that high in comparison to all the other fees and things you would you would take on.
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Having a safe deposit box, that means every time you go to the safe deposit box or take out from the safe deposit box, you're exposing yourself to risk, right?
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So the more you have there, the more risks you have.
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You can get insurance for those things, but people have come to realize that that's a risky situation.
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And there's really you can buy insurance, but it's a separate thing.
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The safe deposit box company is not insuring it.
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You have to insure what's there and you have to claim it.
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And the insurance rate is significantly higher than having it in our vault.
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That's so true.
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Just kind of working from the end there and kind of coming back.
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Um, even if somebody tried to place it in a safety deposit box, the bank is never going to know how much metals are declared in that box.
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So they can insure that.
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And FDIC is tied to deposit accounts.
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So to your point, you know, where's the where's the security or the peace of mind?
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It sounds like the depository, specifically Wyoming Reserve, they they have everything turnkey.
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They've got the safety, they've got um the insurance.
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I'm I'm assuming that the metals are insured when they're stayed within the case.
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Yes, dollar for dollar insurance.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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And then every dollar, everything segregated for the individual in their name, in their account.
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So what we receive is what is stored and never touched again.
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So the day they come back and they say, Oh, I want those gold eagles that I've deposited, those are the exact same ones they're getting back.
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They're not getting somebody else's gold eagles.
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The exact same ones they deposited, those are the ones they're getting back.
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And that's essential now that I'm like really walking the dog in my mind.
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We have a lot of IRA clients.
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IRAs are our business at Heritage IRA, obviously.
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And um, I've noticed on the invoices, specifically from a dealer, they might have you know two gold eagles with a very particular date, and then it'll show another four gold eagles with a very different date, and so on and so forth.
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And sometimes these lists can get pretty lengthy.
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To your point about segregation, that's really where you got to find as an IRA holder the right depository that's willing to segregate their metals so that they get back exactly what they put in.
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Am I understanding that right, Miguel?
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That's correct.
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And that's exactly what we do.
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And what we provide is safety and security and knowing that your your metals is secure in a class three vault.
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And I don't know if you're aware of this, but we store for the state of Wyoming.
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Oh, we store for Wells Fargo.
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So we're we're we're our primary focus is actually commercial, business to business.
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So we're in the you know, with industrial companies moving metals in and out, but we as I said before, we're doing third-party storage, and that all that security that we have for handling, you know, 50 million, 100 million dollars is there for the smaller investor as well.
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So they're they're covered.
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It's good to hear that you're you know, some of your clients are, you know, big organizations like Wells Fargo.
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Um, obviously, your checks and balances, your operations must be uh strong enough for a company like that, who I know has insane vetting, like vendor vending, uh sorry, vet vendor vetting procedures uh to do business with you.
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So that's great insights.
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Um let's let's move on a little bit and kind of walk us through what happens with an investor.
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Okay, let's let's say we're doing business together, uh Heritage IRA in Wyoming Reserve.
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You guys are one of our depositories, let's say, and we have a client that wants to buy up some metals uh with a dealer.
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Can you just walk the dog a little bit on what it looks like when that individual makes that purchase?
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They've contacted us as the IRA holder and just kind of illustrate how that's delivered to you guys and so on and so forth.
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Sure.
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Well, first when they contact you and they elect the one reserve as a depository they're going to use, then heritage IRA reaches out to us and advises us that they now have a sub-account, Jane Doe, account number XXX, and we start keeping track of Jane Doe, but only Heritage IRA has control of the account.
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So now there's a sub account Jane Doe XXX.
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So that means if a customer buys something from another party, they will tell that party to ship to, and we use a different name, which I don't want to put on here because then it's the public, the general public will know, and that's why I don't want to share it.
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We use a different name of who to ship to, and then you have to make sure that in the that they advise us in advance what's being shipped and include in the packing slip the name and the heritage IRA Jando account number XXX.
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And those deals details would have to be in there.
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So we would want to be pre-advised so this way there's no errors, and we communicate immediately when it arrives.
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Now, when a package arrives, let's say a package arrives via FedEx, UPS, United Postal Service.
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If it's a smaller package, if it's a larger, it might come by truck, depends um what size or size of purchase it is, right?
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Um but when a package arrives, let's take it in a standard package, it might be a box that you pick up, it comes in, we sign for the package, it then got all this under camera so that we see it when it comes off the truck, we see it on the hand truck, we see it come into the vault area, we see it picked up, we see it put on a on a desk where the camera's focused on.
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Everything's being video recorded, the box is open, the the gentlemen in the processing department are taking out things, checking against the packing slip.
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Once that's completed, they make a report, they know what account it's for, and they send the information.
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In this case, it would go to Heritage IRA saying, we have received this deposit from XYZ for Jane Doe's account with you, and this is what we've received.
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This was the packing slip, this will receive it.
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If there's a difference, we'll we'll pick up the phone right away and call you and say, there's a problem, there was a missing piece or something.
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Typically, when that happens, is that they're it's coming in another package, and for some reason they broke it up.
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It's very rare to have real shortages because most most of the companies are very professional.
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So in in this industry, though, you do have to be careful.
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The most important things that I would share with with the general investor public, the retail public, is that to deal with good recognized companies and always buy liquid products.
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What I mean by liquid products is in the products that everybody knows.
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Why?
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Because if you're investing in bullion, that should be what you're doing.
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So in in the smaller products, what would you buy?
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Gold eagles or one ounce gold bars that are recognized by the market, silver eagles, silver rounds that are recognized by the market.
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There's 10 ounces, 100 ounces, there's other bars that are recognized by the market, but you just you just got to do your research.
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Don't trust a person on the phone.
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Um, if they're paying massive advertising, those are people that you have to be wary of because somehow they're paying for that.
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And most remember, like I said, this is a commodity business, so the margins are not that big.
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So if you're if you see the spot price is X and it's a it's like a huge percentage above, you know you're overpaying.
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Shop online, there's plenty of dealers.
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We have co-located with us, Scottsdale Mint.
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We have storing with us, Bullion Star, SWP came in, Jack Hunt Coinbroker.
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There's all different companies that also do business with us, and you can ship from anywhere.
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Just what I'm saying, what I'm very concerned with for these people who are running self-directed IRAs is that they do their research, learn who to deal with, get references, and and shop the prices.
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A lot of uh powerful nuggets, if you will, Miguel.
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Coming from somebody who's got four decades in the industry, you've I bet you've seen it all.
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So to hear from a professional like yourself, you know, do the research, shop around.
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I would probably throw that out there as well as shop around and compare prices.
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Um, so I I do appreciate that very much uh for the self-directed retirement investor.
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You know, it could be their first go-around.
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You know, maybe they heard from an advisor, maybe they heard on a podcast that they should have a little bit in precious metals, they should know that, you know, take some time, go out there and and do the research.
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Uh to your point, get some references.
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Um, so thank you.
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One one of the things they should be wary of, anyone who's forcefully trying to sell them.
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Tell me more.
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You're talking about a dealer.
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Someone calling you up on the phone saying you should buy precious metals, and you know, they're telling you, convincing you that's obviously they have a vested interest in selling it, right?
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For sure.
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And why are they so aggressive?
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Because they get a commission from it.
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So that commission-based structure is just like everything else.
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Someone's getting paid there.
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That's a lot of work to for being.
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But the but most of the commodity dealers or the the retail coin deals and all that's passive.
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It's all on the web.
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You go on there and you either call them or you open an account online and and buy it there, and it's all done very passively, no hard selling.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:04.480
Yeah.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.720
So that's where where I would be very cautious if someone's trying to hard sell.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.240
Additionally, this one's a totally off the side.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:28.799
There's also scams out there that target senior citizens, and they call them up, they convince them to buy gold, they tell them where to buy gold, and believe it or not, they actually tell them to buy gold at legitimate companies, and then they have them ship it to their home.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:34.880
Um and then they're there to rip receive the package, and they steal a package, and they're out that money.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.079
That's so sad.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.599
And scary is very sad and scary and scary.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.880
And that's actually another reason why you shouldn't do it at home.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.799
You ship it to your vault, it's it's they're not getting anything out of this vault.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:47.359
Right.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.720
It comes to you guys, there's security, so on and so forth.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.599
Really, really helpful insights there, Miguel.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:01.680
Um, well, you know, speaking of insurance, security, so on and so forth, I'm just kind of curious about the auditing process.
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.920
I know we're getting a little deep into the weeds.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:09.039
Um, you talked a little bit about dollar-for-dollar insurance, what your guys' security looks like.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:10.079
How about auditing?
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:10.720
Is that a thing?
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.880
Do you guys go through an audit process?
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:14.079
Yes, we do.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.640
We are audited on a quarterly basis by third-party auditor, Alfred H.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.880
Knight, which is well known around the world.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.599
They audit many of the COMEX vaults.
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:33.599
Um, so we do it on a quarterly basis, which is unique because most of the vaults, even the well-recognized vaults in the country, only do it annually.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:36.000
All right, but we do it quarterly.
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.559
That's a differentiator right there for you guys.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:40.480
That's a differentiator.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.160
And we also use for the well, this is more on the corporate side.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:53.119
We have a permission blockchain called Excedrus, which keeps track of metals that come in from exactly from the refiner all the way to our vault.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.319
So right now we're holding gold that's on this permission blockchain for two customers.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.839
Okay, wow, that's that's uh good stuff.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.599
Yeah, we're very transparent.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:09.440
You know, and another thing I'd like to add, it's uh something I'm very proud of, is the people that I work with.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:21.920
So, and this is one of the reasons I ended up here because you know, I'm I was at uh my previous employer, Jaraeus Metals, New York, which is a large German conglomerate with over 13,000 employees.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.759
I was getting ready to retire there.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.880
But the uh the founder here, CEO, Josh Fair, and Dave McMaster, the other founder, called me up and offered me a job.
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:36.400
And at first I wasn't gonna move here, but you know, they they convinced me.
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.839
And and the thing is that they're good, honest folks.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.759
And this is why I came here, because I have that confidence and we're transparent about who we are.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.440
So you go to our website, you see who the people are running the company.
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:50.720
So you know who we are.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:55.759
You can do the research, you can look on LinkedIn, you can Google our names and find out who we are.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.680
So you know a lot of the companies you go to, you can't find out who even is behind.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah, they have uh almost walls put up.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.880
All you see is a marketing stock photo, if you will, and you can't tell who's actually running the operation.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:11.920
Right.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.440
Well, we're we're the exact opposite, and we're all good friends.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.279
So that's just shows you how we've come together from different places.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.000
Right on.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:21.279
No, I appreciate that, Miguel.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.680
If you don't mind, I'll ask you one question here.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.799
I know we can go on and on, um, but maybe we'll have you come on in another segment in the future.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:40.640
But you brought up something really interesting that stood out, and it was the fact that um you were talking about, you know, what you would recommend a retail investor buying up.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.839
You said, you know, buy up the stuff that's familiar.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.599
At least that's how it came across to me, right?
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.599
The silver eagles, the gold eagles.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:58.319
Are you saying that there's other types of minted coins out there that may not be a preferred uh commodity in the precious metal space?
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.240
Could you unpack that a little bit?
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:20.640
Well, unfortunately, there's certain companies that create and manufacture their own branded rounds or coins or bars and charge it an excessive premium claiming that it has some kind of numismatic value, that it's a rare coin, it's a limited edition.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.240
And if you're investing in gold and silver for the purpose of gold and silver, those are something you should be avoiding completely.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.640
You don't want numismatic value.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.039
And is it really numismatic?
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:32.559
Is there really value there?
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.680
Is there another bid or are they the only ones who sell that?
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:44.319
If they're the only ones who sell that, and then the first thing you want to know when you're buying something is where can I sell it in the future, right?
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.000
That's called liquidity.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:47.920
That's what we call in the market liquidity.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.240
When you buy something, you want to know you can sell it.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.240
That means it's liquid, right?
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.880
So that means when you're buying a product, you want to know how many people can I sell it to.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.480
If it's only one guy, it's not a liquid product.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.920
If it's 10 people, well now you're comfortable.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.119
You know one of those 10 people are going to be around to buy it when you go to sell it.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.480
It could be hundreds.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.000
You know what I'm saying?
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.720
So that's why I mentioned the the common products, but there's also very good brands.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:24.079
Don't get me wrong, there's lots of good one ounce gold bar brands, one ounce round silvers, it's well recognized, priced reasonably that people can invest in.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:30.400
That's why I said there's also different sizes, ten ounce, hundred-ounce silver bars, you know, and even gold, there's kilobars.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.960
Typically, that's bought by bigger investors that are holding it, you know.
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:42.079
But when we're talking about the smaller investor, then they would be more focused on the one ounce size products.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:42.960
Right on.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:43.839
Okay, Miguel.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.920
Well, super insightful.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:53.519
Let's say we have somebody today who's uh listening to the show and they're really interested in uh taking that next step.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.599
Maybe it's somebody who's new to metals and they want to buy up, let's say, some gold, maybe some silver.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.319
Um, maybe it's an experienced investor.
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.839
Um, I guess what's their first step?
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.920
If if we could close it out with, you know, your your opinion on their first step, what would that look like?
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.200
The first step is to do research.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:19.039
Learn what it is, what's your objective, number one?
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:25.440
And if your objective is investing in gold or investing in silver, so you have to determine what you're gonna invest in, or platinum it could be, right?
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.119
So you have to determine what it is you're gonna invest in and why.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.839
Once you know that, then you start doing research.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.839
What's the product I want to invest in?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.759
What's the most liquid product?
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.920
Who has the best prices that I can see?
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:39.200
Who are you comfortable with?
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:46.240
Do research on the company you're gonna deal with, who you're gonna buy from, make sure that they're a reputable company and been around for a long time.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.799
Don't go by advertising, don't blow by famous people on their website.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.880
That's not the reference.
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.880
You want to see activity, better business bureau, that kind of thing.
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.559
See if there's any history on that company.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:14.319
And then, of course, if you're doing self-directed IRA, you have to call someone like Heritage IRA and set up your custodian account so that you can buy the metal with your IRA money and then ship it into the vault.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:15.279
Got it.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.559
Awesome, Miguel.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:18.640
It was a pleasure to have you come on today.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:27.440
I I look forward to continued conversations with you offline, but let's have you come on another time in the future and uh we'll just continue the dialogue.
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.839
But I I do appreciate you coming on so much.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:36.960
And for those that have taken time out of their busy day to listen to another episode of the Self Directed Edge podcast, thank you.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:41.119
So glad that you took the time and uh we will talk to you later.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.079
Thanks so much.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:43.440
All right, thank you, Joel.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.480
You're welcome.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.359
Take care.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.400
Bye bye.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:04.320
Okay, welcome back everybody to the Self-Directed Edge podcast.
00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:07.679
I am your host, Joel Landon with Heritage IRA.
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.560
And today I've got an awesome guest with us.
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:13.679
I've got Miguel Paracentala Centala.
00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:18.960
I almost said Santaya, which is the correct way to say it, uh, from the Wyomeser.
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:20.320
Uh Miguel, welcome.
00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:21.839
Happy to have you on the show.
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:23.920
Hey, thank you for having me, Joel.
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:24.879
Absolutely.
00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:32.719
Welcome to the Self-Directed Edge, the podcast for investors who want their retirement capital doing more than sitting in the market.
00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.840
I'm your host, Joel Landon with Heritage IRA.
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:56.320
Um, so as everybody is aware that listens to our podcast, we like to bring in guests on a weekly basis in specific industries that are unique from one another to teach us a little bit about their craft, their specialty, their industry, their expertise.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:04.799
Uh so today I've I've brought in Miguel so that he can shed some light on uh the idea of a precious metals depository.
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:09.920
And this is the first time for us on the Self-Directed Edge podcast to have a guest like you, Miguel.
00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:13.599
So I'm excited to hear, to learn myself.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:17.920
And uh, I know that our listeners are going to walk away with a lot of value add.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.040
So if you're okay with it, let's just get right into it.
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:22.319
I'll ask you some questions.
00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:27.920
The first few questions uh will give you a chance to talk about the Wyoming Reserve as well as yourself.
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:38.560
So uh with that being said, Miguel, for listeners who may be unfamiliar with the Wyoming Reserve, what is it and what led to its creation?
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:44.799
Well, the Wyoming Reserve is a business and it's an operating business.
00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:50.239
It runs a vault and also manages precious metals on its balance sheet.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:59.200
But for our listeners who are interested in the vaulting side, we do take uh private investor storage, and we also are focused on business to business.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:05.599
So most of our business is commercial business, but we do take third-party storage of private investors.
00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:27.039
And so that's the way the business came into being, really, is the CEO and two founding members, so there's three founding members, came up with this idea when the Scottsdale Mint bought a building in Casper, Wyoming, and they're moving up here, and they had the idea for this business of vaulting business that managed precious metals investment.
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:29.680
And that's how we came into being.
00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.000
So I'm the first employee of that company, which is the Wyoming Reserve.
00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:38.479
The full name of the company is the Wyoming Reserve Opportunity Zone Fund Corporation.
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:39.840
Fantastic.
00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:42.319
And a lot to unpack there.
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:48.000
I know some of my upcoming questions are going to help the listener uh understand that even more.
00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.120
So we'll distill everything that you've mentioned there.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:58.879
And um, of course, you know, you said you're one of the first employees, but let's be honest, you're definitely not new to the industry.
00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:05.439
So if you wouldn't mind, I know you've spent decades uh in the precious metals space.
00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:10.719
Uh what have you learned about how investors and institutions approach precious metals?
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:16.400
Well, first off, it it there's lots of ways to look at precious metals.
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:18.639
So I've been in the industry for over 40 years.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:22.960
I started in a vault in 29 Broadway, New York City.
00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:25.039
So as a kid, 18 years old.
00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:27.360
So I've been in for quite a long time.
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:32.560
In terms of how investors and institutions, it all depends what institutions you're talking about.
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:39.599
Remember, precious metals are also a commodity that's actually used in the manufacture of goods and services.
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:43.599
So there's every cell phone has precious metals in it.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.319
Every uh gas combustion engine has autocatalyst which has precious metals in it.
00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.319
So there's precious metals all around us.
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:58.400
Every contact has precious metals in it, electrical contacts has some quantity of precious metals.
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:00.719
So you have the whole manufacturing side.
00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:07.280
So there's people investing and buying in the marketplace, an activity going on in the marketplace that is industrial.
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:12.240
Okay, it's really consumers using it, and of course, you have the jewelry industry as well.
00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:16.639
So that's a big taker of gold and silver and platinum.
00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:18.480
So that's one section.
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.959
And then you have so then you're talking about investors and institutional, all right.
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.639
So now we're you're talking about institutional investment companies, right?
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:35.680
So typically a lot of the institutional companies in precious metals are more are buying like ETFs, right?
00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:37.600
Which is exchange traded funds.
00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:37.920
Yep.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.560
And even some private investors buy those as well.
00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.040
Now the thing is the ETFs are a wasting asset.
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.360
What do I mean by that they're a wasting asset?
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.480
Is that their their fees are actually pretty high.
00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:51.920
And because of that, the price is always going lower.
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:58.720
So when you look at the price of ETF, it's always you know discounted to what the spot price is of the market price.
00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:04.720
So the market price of gold or silver would be higher than the ETF because the ETF is a wasting asset.
00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.639
So you're they're always paying management fees and it's coming out of the fund.
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:17.920
But when you store physical metals, you can shop around and hold your metals wherever you want and pay the right storage fee because you're managing it yourself.
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:29.680
And so that's why people who get into self-directed IRAs, for instance, are managing their own expenses, managing their own investment, and that's how they avoid paying the higher fee of the ETFs.
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:33.040
But of course, there's give and take and everything because you have liquidity.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:39.839
Physical metals are liquid, but you have instant liquidity, let's say, on something that's on the exchange, right?
00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.279
You press a button nowadays and you buy and sell, right?
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:51.360
But uh when you have physical, you have to make the arrangement and buy and sell with a with a counterparty that you trust and then get paid.
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.800
And and that's the way that process works currently.
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:56.879
Okay, fantastic, awesome.
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.120
And yeah, I I wanted to use the term decades of experience.
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.639
I didn't want to age you, but you kind of aged yourself by saying four years.
00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:13.439
And I love that, but uh it's important that our listener knows that because obviously you've got the credibility, right, to to talk to this topic.
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:15.759
So I appreciate you kind of breaking that down for us.
00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:23.439
And um, it didn't dawn on me really how many layers there are for a company like the Wyoming Reserve.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:35.279
You talked about manufacturing industry, uh, you talked about um just individuals even owning the metals and ultimately how um it's a commodity, right?
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.079
It's a it's a commodity that's that's traded.
00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:43.120
Um, I'd like to dig a little bit deeper uh into these topics here.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:50.959
And um, you know, I'm really curious about you know the the metals depository as a whole.
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:58.560
Um, you know, what it is, how is it different from keeping gold or silver at home or in a bank safe deposit?
00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:05.040
And now now we're looking at this from like the the guy down the street or you know, the husband and wife.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:12.399
So currently, since we launched uh four years ago, and we've been growing steadily.
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.160
This is a a secure, high-value vault.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:19.519
All right, so we have cameras everywhere.
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.000
The building is, you know, you'd have to bomb it to try and get into the building.
00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:33.680
And we have four police stations around us that if we their response time is under five minutes if some of our alarm store to go off.
00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:34.240
Okay.
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:40.879
Um, we have a class three vault, which would literally take like six hours to drill a hole this big through the wall.
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.120
And by then, of course, the police are all over the place, even if you started.
00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:46.879
But it it's not gonna happen.
00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:48.800
That that's how secure this vault is.
00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:56.319
We're in this the structure itself is a is a cement building, 50,000 square feet currently, which we're building out to 70,000.
00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:02.720
Well, Scottsdale Mint is they're also co-located in our vault in in the building, I'm saying.
00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:08.000
And so we have Wyoming Reserve is a completely separate company that we leave space here.
00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.639
So, what's important to know for the individual as an investor?
00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:19.600
What's the difference about having gold in your home, in the bank, or in this vault?
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.600
I'll tell you it's very simple.
00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.839
It's called security and safety.
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:25.839
First off, in the home, all right.
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:33.519
You want to have a few ounces of gold and s and silver just in case you think there might be a need to raise cash really quick.
00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:34.240
Okay.
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:46.159
But the thing is, the more value you have in your home, the more risk you're taking on, not just about losing the metals, but about the risk of someone finding out and putting your family at risk.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:47.039
Right.
00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:57.919
And so is the money worth it to put your family at risk if someone comes in and finds out and they charge in trying to steal your metal and then they threaten you and your family?
00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:02.799
No, it's not worth the risk, especially when the cost of storage is not that high.
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.440
So we charge right now, you know.
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:11.039
So, you know, heritage IRA will charge their fee for managing the storage and costs like that.
00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:14.879
So they should contact you if they want to store it to YOM Reserve.
00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:19.840
But it's really not that high in comparison to all the other fees and things you would you would take on.
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:27.679
Having a safe deposit box, that means every time you go to the safe deposit box or take out from the safe deposit box, you're exposing yourself to risk, right?
00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:30.080
So the more you have there, the more risks you have.
00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.440
You can get insurance for those things, but people have come to realize that that's a risky situation.
00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.799
And there's really you can buy insurance, but it's a separate thing.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.519
The safe deposit box company is not insuring it.
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.159
You have to insure what's there and you have to claim it.
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:48.960
And the insurance rate is significantly higher than having it in our vault.
00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:50.159
That's so true.
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:53.360
Just kind of working from the end there and kind of coming back.
00:09:53.600 --> 00:10:01.840
Um, even if somebody tried to place it in a safety deposit box, the bank is never going to know how much metals are declared in that box.
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:03.120
So they can insure that.
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.480
And FDIC is tied to deposit accounts.
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:11.600
So to your point, you know, where's the where's the security or the peace of mind?
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:18.639
It sounds like the depository, specifically Wyoming Reserve, they they have everything turnkey.
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.799
They've got the safety, they've got um the insurance.
00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.240
I'm I'm assuming that the metals are insured when they're stayed within the case.
00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.000
Yes, dollar for dollar insurance.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:28.480
Okay.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:28.879
Yes.
00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:35.360
And then every dollar, everything segregated for the individual in their name, in their account.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:40.000
So what we receive is what is stored and never touched again.
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:46.480
So the day they come back and they say, Oh, I want those gold eagles that I've deposited, those are the exact same ones they're getting back.
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.480
They're not getting somebody else's gold eagles.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.759
The exact same ones they deposited, those are the ones they're getting back.
00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.320
And that's essential now that I'm like really walking the dog in my mind.
00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:57.919
We have a lot of IRA clients.
00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.200
IRAs are our business at Heritage IRA, obviously.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:16.080
And um, I've noticed on the invoices, specifically from a dealer, they might have you know two gold eagles with a very particular date, and then it'll show another four gold eagles with a very different date, and so on and so forth.
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.120
And sometimes these lists can get pretty lengthy.
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:32.720
To your point about segregation, that's really where you got to find as an IRA holder the right depository that's willing to segregate their metals so that they get back exactly what they put in.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:34.720
Am I understanding that right, Miguel?
00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:35.759
That's correct.
00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.600
And that's exactly what we do.
00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:45.200
And what we provide is safety and security and knowing that your your metals is secure in a class three vault.
00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.679
And I don't know if you're aware of this, but we store for the state of Wyoming.
00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.000
Oh, we store for Wells Fargo.
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.960
So we're we're we're our primary focus is actually commercial, business to business.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:14.639
So we're in the you know, with industrial companies moving metals in and out, but we as I said before, we're doing third-party storage, and that all that security that we have for handling, you know, 50 million, 100 million dollars is there for the smaller investor as well.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.320
So they're they're covered.
00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:24.080
It's good to hear that you're you know, some of your clients are, you know, big organizations like Wells Fargo.
00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:41.600
Um, obviously, your checks and balances, your operations must be uh strong enough for a company like that, who I know has insane vetting, like vendor vending, uh sorry, vet vendor vetting procedures uh to do business with you.
00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:43.440
So that's great insights.
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:50.000
Um let's let's move on a little bit and kind of walk us through what happens with an investor.
00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.960
Okay, let's let's say we're doing business together, uh Heritage IRA in Wyoming Reserve.
00:12:55.120 --> 00:13:02.320
You guys are one of our depositories, let's say, and we have a client that wants to buy up some metals uh with a dealer.
00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:08.000
Can you just walk the dog a little bit on what it looks like when that individual makes that purchase?
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:17.600
They've contacted us as the IRA holder and just kind of illustrate how that's delivered to you guys and so on and so forth.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:18.399
Sure.
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:41.519
Well, first when they contact you and they elect the one reserve as a depository they're going to use, then heritage IRA reaches out to us and advises us that they now have a sub-account, Jane Doe, account number XXX, and we start keeping track of Jane Doe, but only Heritage IRA has control of the account.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.559
So now there's a sub account Jane Doe XXX.
00:13:44.720 --> 00:14:00.080
So that means if a customer buys something from another party, they will tell that party to ship to, and we use a different name, which I don't want to put on here because then it's the public, the general public will know, and that's why I don't want to share it.
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:16.399
We use a different name of who to ship to, and then you have to make sure that in the that they advise us in advance what's being shipped and include in the packing slip the name and the heritage IRA Jando account number XXX.
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.360
And those deals details would have to be in there.
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:25.440
So we would want to be pre-advised so this way there's no errors, and we communicate immediately when it arrives.
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:32.080
Now, when a package arrives, let's say a package arrives via FedEx, UPS, United Postal Service.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:41.120
If it's a smaller package, if it's a larger, it might come by truck, depends um what size or size of purchase it is, right?
00:14:41.440 --> 00:15:06.960
Um but when a package arrives, let's take it in a standard package, it might be a box that you pick up, it comes in, we sign for the package, it then got all this under camera so that we see it when it comes off the truck, we see it on the hand truck, we see it come into the vault area, we see it picked up, we see it put on a on a desk where the camera's focused on.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:17.360
Everything's being video recorded, the box is open, the the gentlemen in the processing department are taking out things, checking against the packing slip.
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:23.679
Once that's completed, they make a report, they know what account it's for, and they send the information.
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:34.639
In this case, it would go to Heritage IRA saying, we have received this deposit from XYZ for Jane Doe's account with you, and this is what we've received.
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.440
This was the packing slip, this will receive it.
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:44.240
If there's a difference, we'll we'll pick up the phone right away and call you and say, there's a problem, there was a missing piece or something.
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:50.559
Typically, when that happens, is that they're it's coming in another package, and for some reason they broke it up.
00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:57.360
It's very rare to have real shortages because most most of the companies are very professional.
00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.720
So in in this industry, though, you do have to be careful.
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:12.159
The most important things that I would share with with the general investor public, the retail public, is that to deal with good recognized companies and always buy liquid products.
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:16.480
What I mean by liquid products is in the products that everybody knows.
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:16.960
Why?
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.559
Because if you're investing in bullion, that should be what you're doing.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.519
So in in the smaller products, what would you buy?
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:31.200
Gold eagles or one ounce gold bars that are recognized by the market, silver eagles, silver rounds that are recognized by the market.
00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:37.519
There's 10 ounces, 100 ounces, there's other bars that are recognized by the market, but you just you just got to do your research.
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.679
Don't trust a person on the phone.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:47.200
Um, if they're paying massive advertising, those are people that you have to be wary of because somehow they're paying for that.
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:52.799
And most remember, like I said, this is a commodity business, so the margins are not that big.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:17:01.120
So if you're if you see the spot price is X and it's a it's like a huge percentage above, you know you're overpaying.
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.759
Shop online, there's plenty of dealers.
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.720
We have co-located with us, Scottsdale Mint.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:12.720
We have storing with us, Bullion Star, SWP came in, Jack Hunt Coinbroker.
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:17.839
There's all different companies that also do business with us, and you can ship from anywhere.
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:30.240
Just what I'm saying, what I'm very concerned with for these people who are running self-directed IRAs is that they do their research, learn who to deal with, get references, and and shop the prices.
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.319
A lot of uh powerful nuggets, if you will, Miguel.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.359
Coming from somebody who's got four decades in the industry, you've I bet you've seen it all.
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.720
So to hear from a professional like yourself, you know, do the research, shop around.
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:49.119
I would probably throw that out there as well as shop around and compare prices.
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:55.920
Um, so I I do appreciate that very much uh for the self-directed retirement investor.
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:58.160
You know, it could be their first go-around.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:11.599
You know, maybe they heard from an advisor, maybe they heard on a podcast that they should have a little bit in precious metals, they should know that, you know, take some time, go out there and and do the research.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.920
Uh to your point, get some references.
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.279
Um, so thank you.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:21.519
One one of the things they should be wary of, anyone who's forcefully trying to sell them.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:22.720
Tell me more.
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.799
You're talking about a dealer.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:35.920
Someone calling you up on the phone saying you should buy precious metals, and you know, they're telling you, convincing you that's obviously they have a vested interest in selling it, right?
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:36.319
For sure.
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.079
And why are they so aggressive?
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.599
Because they get a commission from it.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:45.119
So that commission-based structure is just like everything else.
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:46.559
Someone's getting paid there.
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.400
That's a lot of work to for being.
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.519
But the but most of the commodity dealers or the the retail coin deals and all that's passive.
00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:54.880
It's all on the web.
00:18:55.119 --> 00:19:04.079
You go on there and you either call them or you open an account online and and buy it there, and it's all done very passively, no hard selling.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:04.480
Yeah.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.720
So that's where where I would be very cautious if someone's trying to hard sell.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.240
Additionally, this one's a totally off the side.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:28.799
There's also scams out there that target senior citizens, and they call them up, they convince them to buy gold, they tell them where to buy gold, and believe it or not, they actually tell them to buy gold at legitimate companies, and then they have them ship it to their home.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:34.880
Um and then they're there to rip receive the package, and they steal a package, and they're out that money.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.079
That's so sad.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.599
And scary is very sad and scary and scary.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.880
And that's actually another reason why you shouldn't do it at home.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.799
You ship it to your vault, it's it's they're not getting anything out of this vault.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:47.359
Right.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.720
It comes to you guys, there's security, so on and so forth.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.599
Really, really helpful insights there, Miguel.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:01.680
Um, well, you know, speaking of insurance, security, so on and so forth, I'm just kind of curious about the auditing process.
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.920
I know we're getting a little deep into the weeds.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:09.039
Um, you talked a little bit about dollar-for-dollar insurance, what your guys' security looks like.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:10.079
How about auditing?
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:10.720
Is that a thing?
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.880
Do you guys go through an audit process?
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:14.079
Yes, we do.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.640
We are audited on a quarterly basis by third-party auditor, Alfred H.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.880
Knight, which is well known around the world.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.599
They audit many of the COMEX vaults.
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:33.599
Um, so we do it on a quarterly basis, which is unique because most of the vaults, even the well-recognized vaults in the country, only do it annually.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:36.000
All right, but we do it quarterly.
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.559
That's a differentiator right there for you guys.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:40.480
That's a differentiator.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.160
And we also use for the well, this is more on the corporate side.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:53.119
We have a permission blockchain called Excedrus, which keeps track of metals that come in from exactly from the refiner all the way to our vault.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.319
So right now we're holding gold that's on this permission blockchain for two customers.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.839
Okay, wow, that's that's uh good stuff.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.599
Yeah, we're very transparent.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:09.440
You know, and another thing I'd like to add, it's uh something I'm very proud of, is the people that I work with.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:21.920
So, and this is one of the reasons I ended up here because you know, I'm I was at uh my previous employer, Jaraeus Metals, New York, which is a large German conglomerate with over 13,000 employees.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.759
I was getting ready to retire there.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.880
But the uh the founder here, CEO, Josh Fair, and Dave McMaster, the other founder, called me up and offered me a job.
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:36.400
And at first I wasn't gonna move here, but you know, they they convinced me.
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.839
And and the thing is that they're good, honest folks.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.759
And this is why I came here, because I have that confidence and we're transparent about who we are.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.440
So you go to our website, you see who the people are running the company.
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:50.720
So you know who we are.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:55.759
You can do the research, you can look on LinkedIn, you can Google our names and find out who we are.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.680
So you know a lot of the companies you go to, you can't find out who even is behind.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:03.920
Yeah, they have uh almost walls put up.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.880
All you see is a marketing stock photo, if you will, and you can't tell who's actually running the operation.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:11.920
Right.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.440
Well, we're we're the exact opposite, and we're all good friends.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.279
So that's just shows you how we've come together from different places.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.000
Right on.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:21.279
No, I appreciate that, Miguel.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.680
If you don't mind, I'll ask you one question here.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.799
I know we can go on and on, um, but maybe we'll have you come on in another segment in the future.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:40.640
But you brought up something really interesting that stood out, and it was the fact that um you were talking about, you know, what you would recommend a retail investor buying up.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.839
You said, you know, buy up the stuff that's familiar.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.599
At least that's how it came across to me, right?
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.599
The silver eagles, the gold eagles.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:58.319
Are you saying that there's other types of minted coins out there that may not be a preferred uh commodity in the precious metal space?
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.240
Could you unpack that a little bit?
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:20.640
Well, unfortunately, there's certain companies that create and manufacture their own branded rounds or coins or bars and charge it an excessive premium claiming that it has some kind of numismatic value, that it's a rare coin, it's a limited edition.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.240
And if you're investing in gold and silver for the purpose of gold and silver, those are something you should be avoiding completely.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.640
You don't want numismatic value.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.039
And is it really numismatic?
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:32.559
Is there really value there?
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.680
Is there another bid or are they the only ones who sell that?
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:44.319
If they're the only ones who sell that, and then the first thing you want to know when you're buying something is where can I sell it in the future, right?
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.000
That's called liquidity.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:47.920
That's what we call in the market liquidity.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.240
When you buy something, you want to know you can sell it.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.240
That means it's liquid, right?
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.880
So that means when you're buying a product, you want to know how many people can I sell it to.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.480
If it's only one guy, it's not a liquid product.
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.920
If it's 10 people, well now you're comfortable.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.119
You know one of those 10 people are going to be around to buy it when you go to sell it.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.480
It could be hundreds.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.000
You know what I'm saying?
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.720
So that's why I mentioned the the common products, but there's also very good brands.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:24.079
Don't get me wrong, there's lots of good one ounce gold bar brands, one ounce round silvers, it's well recognized, priced reasonably that people can invest in.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:30.400
That's why I said there's also different sizes, ten ounce, hundred-ounce silver bars, you know, and even gold, there's kilobars.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.960
Typically, that's bought by bigger investors that are holding it, you know.
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:42.079
But when we're talking about the smaller investor, then they would be more focused on the one ounce size products.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:42.960
Right on.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:43.839
Okay, Miguel.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.920
Well, super insightful.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:53.519
Let's say we have somebody today who's uh listening to the show and they're really interested in uh taking that next step.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.599
Maybe it's somebody who's new to metals and they want to buy up, let's say, some gold, maybe some silver.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.319
Um, maybe it's an experienced investor.
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.839
Um, I guess what's their first step?
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.920
If if we could close it out with, you know, your your opinion on their first step, what would that look like?
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.200
The first step is to do research.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:19.039
Learn what it is, what's your objective, number one?
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:25.440
And if your objective is investing in gold or investing in silver, so you have to determine what you're gonna invest in, or platinum it could be, right?
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.119
So you have to determine what it is you're gonna invest in and why.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.839
Once you know that, then you start doing research.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.839
What's the product I want to invest in?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.759
What's the most liquid product?
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.920
Who has the best prices that I can see?
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:39.200
Who are you comfortable with?
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:46.240
Do research on the company you're gonna deal with, who you're gonna buy from, make sure that they're a reputable company and been around for a long time.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.799
Don't go by advertising, don't blow by famous people on their website.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.880
That's not the reference.
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.880
You want to see activity, better business bureau, that kind of thing.
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.559
See if there's any history on that company.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:14.319
And then, of course, if you're doing self-directed IRA, you have to call someone like Heritage IRA and set up your custodian account so that you can buy the metal with your IRA money and then ship it into the vault.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:15.279
Got it.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.559
Awesome, Miguel.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:18.640
It was a pleasure to have you come on today.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:27.440
I I look forward to continued conversations with you offline, but let's have you come on another time in the future and uh we'll just continue the dialogue.
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.839
But I I do appreciate you coming on so much.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:36.960
And for those that have taken time out of their busy day to listen to another episode of the Self Directed Edge podcast, thank you.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:41.119
So glad that you took the time and uh we will talk to you later.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.079
Thanks so much.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:43.440
All right, thank you, Joel.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.480
You're welcome.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.359
Take care.
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.400
Bye bye.
