WEBVTT
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Welcome back everybody to the Self-Directed Edge podcast.
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I'm your host, Joel Lannon from Heritage IRA, and I've got with us a returning guest, Abram Shabanyan.
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Abe, how are you doing, man?
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I'm doing wonderful, man.
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How are you?
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Really, really good.
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I know we promised the listeners that you would come back for a part two of non-recourse lending, and you've made all the preparations in the world to showcase what that looks like for any self-directed IRA investor that's looking to use their IRA to borrow and finance uh real estate.
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Welcome to the Self-Directed Edge.
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Podcast for investors who want their retirement capital doing more than sitting in the market.
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I'm your host, Joel Landon, with Heritage IRA.
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So we're going to look to you, the expert, for that information.
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I know you've got some uh slides to share with us as well.
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So I'm just gonna turn the floor over to you, if you wouldn't mind taking us through it.
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And of course, I'll have some questions for you in the meantime, if that's okay.
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All right, so well, we're gonna be talking about domestifying non-recourse loans.
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Uh, as we talked about the first time, we talked, you know, maybe more broad terms, right, what it is, how it's structured.
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And today I want to focus on the deals, right?
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I want to focus on how you could own real estate, a hard asset that gives you, you know, generates income through your retirement account, right?
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Uh, whether that's an IRA, uh, whether that's a solo 401k, and the ability to grow your retirement instead of investing to, you know, let's say Apple stock, hypothetically, right?
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Now you're investing into a hard asset real estate and have a bank that can help you leverage your retirement, right?
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And so I'm gonna be going through, you know, there'll be some terms that our guests will hear that we they heard on our first podcast, but it's a good reminder, it's a good uh reminder for education reasons, but also just to kind of let the flow go and to kind of talk about each deal independently.
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And so, you know, for our listeners, uh, you know, we'll be pretty in detailed of our conversation for our viewers, you know, and recommend everybody to view this podcast and and watch the video so you can see the actual uh presentation.
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So uh let's see here.
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Are my slides changing on your side?
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Uh there it is.
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Yep.
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Awesome.
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All righty.
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Well, you know, Solar National Bank, a little background, Solera National Bank uh, you know, you know, is a bank that is outside uh here in Lakewood, Colorado.
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We specialize in uh non-recourse lending specifically to buy and finance real estate that's one to four family, five plus that's in good conditioned homes, or a term that a lot of our investors, real estate investors use called turnkey.
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So Solera has financed over$100 million of loans.
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Solera has uh you know been around for for about going on about 12 years in in a self-directed uh space, been doing about seven years of lending.
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And so we lend in all 50 states, uh, you know, uh subject to New York, New Jersey.
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Those are a little bit different requirements and love to hear uh from our real estate investors in New York, New Jersey.
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We can still help you, just you know, reach out to me.
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But you know, really I want to talk about a little bit about the structure, right?
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Um, non-recourse as a reminder is is is what I mean by definition is you're not personally guaranteeing the loan.
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And you know, the the borrower is your retirement account, in this case, your IRA, and there is no really any other way to think about it, right?
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You're we're not pulling your financials, we're not looking at your tax returns, we're not looking at your W-2s, because they're relevant, right?
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All I'm gonna look at is your retirement account, the cash you have in your self-directed IRA or your solo phone, okay?
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And I'm gonna look at simply how much money do you have in your retirement, how come how much we can leverage, you know, we can leverage and finance to 75% loan to value, right?
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25% is minimum down payment, and how much of that will translate in purchase power, right?
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And so, you know, and then you go in, you know, you seek your property, you seek your investment to get a contract uh under your retirement account.
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And so Solaribank does do a lot of structures.
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Um, you know, as uh heritage IRA, they're a custodian.
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So, you know, we do custodial IRAs, we do IRA LLCs, IRA trusts, solo 401ks, uh special entities or special struct uh you know specialized entities that are owned by an IRA or solo 401k.
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So we do quite a bit of structures, and so as long as the member is a retirement account, we can definitely lend uh to it.
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Uh there is some you know requirements that in in case it's you know partners and you know non-spousal individuals partnering together, but we're not gonna get into the deals details of that because not many people do that anyways.
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Okay, so just a little bit of clarity, Abram.
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Um, I think that that was super valuable what you just shared.
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I love that you highlighted that ultimately the retirement account is the borrower, it's not the individual.
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That's a really big shift, I think, for most investors, right?
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And and you even brought up, hey, we don't need to see your financial statement.
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We're more more focused and more interested in the retirement account as the borrower.
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Love that you also put up that you lend uh on properties or you secure dwellings in all 50 states.
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Uh and then of course you did mention there's some terms that are a little unique to some of those other outside, you know, outlier states, if you will.
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Um, but you you get into those specifics with the borrowers um as needed.
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So I appreciate that.
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That's that's good information there.
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Yeah, no, for sure.
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I appreciate you commenting on that.
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And I and one thing I'll say is uh I like to kind of give this illustration, right?
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There's big banks, right?
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Big box banks, and think of a box, okay?
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And a lot of times banks they do they like to be in this box.
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They say if it doesn't fit this box, I will not touch it.
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I will not do it.
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I you know, it's rigged, it's one size fits all.
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There, you know, take it or leave it, right?
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Whatever words you want to use.
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There's there's no room to structure a deal to really help the investor to understand what their needs are, right?
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And I I've dealt with hundreds of real estate investors, I've dealt with thousands, probably individuals in my you know, 12 years in banking.
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And what I realize is that you cannot take the approach of take it or leave it or one size fits all.
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You just can't.
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And so I think what what a bank like us does, right, and and I'll tell you why what I'm saying is because when you look at a non-recourse lender, there is thousands of them around the United States, thousands, right?
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They all do non-recourse lending, but the minute they see that the members in IRA or solo 401k, I like to say they go reverse, put it back in reverse, we're backing out of the deal, and they they're keeping the investors strangled, right?
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They they stranded in in the middle of nowhere, no gas, there's no gas station nearby, and now they're trying to find gas.
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How far do they have to walk to get in?
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And Solera Bank is one of the few lenders in the country, and I don't mean in the state, in the country that specializes in non-recourse lending specifically for retirement accounts as being members.
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And that is a small bank approach.
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I'm getting that, yeah.
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We decided to get out of the the that rigged thinking one size fits all and say, okay, you know what?
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Let's be different.
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Let's understand this industry of self-direction, right?
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Which is it's an amazing thing.
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I think the uh, you know, I think the stock market and the brokers do everything they can to like have everybody be in this like Wall Street, right?
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It's like think different, break free from the Wall Street world, break free from that thinking process and take control of your retirement, take control of your future, right?
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And so Solar has a small piece of that puzzle, and you know, being involved in it for so many years and doing so many deals, it's amazing to see that we're helping people generate wealth through their retirement and their returns to their retirement by using a real estate vehicle.
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And so Solaribank, you know, we do have flexible terms, we have flexible understanding, right?
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There, you know, that's why we don't require your taxes because it doesn't make sense to ask for something if I'm not gonna be able to use it, right?
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Yeah, I do pull people's credit, right, to make sure we talk about their credibility and you know their responsibility as a as a borrower, right?
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But I I'm not gonna look at your W-2s because they're not gonna help the cash flow of the deal.
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Yeah, and so what we look at is strictly retirement or real estate and what the cash flow is, and can it sustain its own debt that they're borrowing, right?
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And so uh a little bit about our terms before I get into it.
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Joel, do you have something you want to say or throw it there?
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No, I love the the slide that you had up.
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You don't have to go back to it, but I love that you had the box for the big box bank.
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But then I was getting some boutique vibes from the other diagram where you showed that bag.
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You you could tell that that's kind of got that boutique feel.
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And in all reality, I would sum up what you mentioned about flexibility, common sense, structuring as more boutique banking, and uh who better to go to for that kind of servicing than you guys.
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So I I appreciate you uh almost drawing a line in the sand, like hey, this is where we're different.
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This is this is what you can expect from a firm like ours compared to the competition or compared to really the too big, uh, the too big to fail bank uh box, if you will.
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Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
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And you know, I uh I'll say this, uh, you know, it's important to understand that, you know, I think Wall Street does uh um I you know, I'm I'm gonna say fear-mongling, right?
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They they fear people into thinking the only way to do it is to invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, right?
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And look, for some people that's important, for some people that gives them peace of mind, right?
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It gives them, you know, they can sleep well at night, right?
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That that's that's beautiful.
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I'm not gonna say one thing is better than the other because I don't believe in that.
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But it's so amazing when you have somebody that says, you know what, I could do Wall Street, but I can also do self-direction, I can also invest into alternative assets outside of the Wall Street, and they're all qualified, you know, qualified investments.
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And again, one of those alternative investments is the real estate asset.
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And I think, you know, when we look at terms that we're gonna discuss right now, right?
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Our bag, I thought, you know, I think of it, and you know, you took words out of my mouth is you know, when you go to a prestigious luxury store, they give you this nice, beautiful bag, you know, and usually they give it, you know, if you buy a gift, they wrap it so nice, the box is really nice, yeah, the bag is beautiful, right?
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So you can hand it the that gift to somebody and say, hey, they're really gonna enjoy it when they open that, right?
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Yeah, the whole experience.
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So, like that's this is our bag, right?
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We have flexible terms, right?
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There's uh, you know options, right?
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It's not just one term.
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We have a 7-1 arm, it's an adjustable mortgage.
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We have a 10-1 arm, it's an adjustable mortgage.
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Even though it says no flexibility, but that the choices are what the flexibilities are, right?
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You don't have to go 25-year-fixed, right?
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Um there is some things that are not flexible, right?
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We can't, you know, there's max rate above your rate that's set.
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There is uh, you know, one of the because there are adjustable mortgages, they have to have a plus or minus, right?
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At the at the adjustment, we have to require appraisals.
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It's a it's a it's a regulatory requirement, right?
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As banks, you know, we we require 30-year meritization.
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Might sound like a no flexibility bad thing, but it's not.
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The more amoritization you get, the more your cash flow will happen.
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Because right, you're spreading your your debt service over 30 years versus 20 years, right?
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Uh we have a 25-year rate fixed rate product.
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That's just, you know, it's it's it's it's just what it is, right?
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Those three terms, they're what they are, they have their own things, right?
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Things that are kind of are flexible, right?
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Um, you know, terms and fees, right?
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Uh, you know, we do have uh DSCR calculator, which stands for debt to service coverage ratio.
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And the bank wants to see a 20%, well, we would say they want to see a 20% net operating income, which is the cash flow, right?
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And the way I like to think about that, and I always tell my investors, the way you want to think about it is for every dollar you spend, for every dollar you spend on your real estate deal, you know, principal, interest, taxes, insurance, HOA, property management fee, all those things are your expenses, right?
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Maintenance on the property, right?
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Those are all pro expenses.
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Say that equals to a dollar, okay?
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You have to bring a dollar twenty uh twenty in income, right?
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Your gross rents has to be dollar twenty.
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And so when we look at the calculation, right, and and if you fall a little bit short, let's say it's you know, instead of 20 cents, you're making 18 cents.
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I don't want to say no to you on the deal.
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Because if you're comfortable, and you know, maybe we may we make an exception for that real estate deal, right?
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Because it's a strong property in a you know in a metro metro area, right?
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Or it's a it's a it's a property that's appreciated in the last five years, right?
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There's so many different things you can look at to determine is that property really worth financing in case of defaults, right?
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Because as a bank, I I always like to be transparent with my investors.
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I tell them, look, bank cares about one thing.
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We do all this like processing, underwriting, right?
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Approvals, but at the end of the day, all we care about is the money we give you that you're gonna pay us back in good faith.
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And if not, I'm gonna secure myself with the collateral, the real estate asset, to make sure that if you don't pay me and you're not gonna be uh, you know, man or woman of your own word, then I'm gonna take that property and force you to pay me back so I don't lose any money.
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And so Solaribank is a little bit flexible with the debt service coverage percentage.
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Solaribank, you know, we have a minimum loan amount, it's 125, right?
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But if you got a property and you need a loan for 120, like we're we're gonna say yes.
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We're not gonna not do it because you didn't meet that small threshold, right?
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Um, you know, we require six months reserve.
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Um, you know, we can finance up to 75% LTV.
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Those are, I mean, just to kind of put it in perspective, you know, we're saying these terms, right?
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75% LTV is simply if you bought a property for$100,000, your purchase price has to be about$140,000, right?
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To put it in, remember if you're if you're if your minimum loan amount is$125,000, which is what the screen says, then your purchase price is about$170,000.
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I mean, there's a lot of properties in that$170, up range, right?
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And we can go up to into the millions, right?
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Um, I kind of want to give like an example of an actual deal, right?
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This is a deal we've done.
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Before you do that, Abe, I just want to highlight something.
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Sure.
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You know, coming from the horse's mouth, I've known you for a while.
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You are a straight shooter.
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There's no doubt about it.
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I mean, I I know you.
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I you've interacted with you know some of our clients.
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You are a straight shooter, and I like it.
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And I know that our I know that investors like it.
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I know that borrowers appreciate that truth.
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No beating around the bush.
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So I like that you've um mentioned, hey, we're gonna make some exceptions here and there, case by case.
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We're not gonna lose an opportunity both ways if you come up short by five thousand dollars.
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But at the same time, investors, borrowers, they can they can walk away from this presentation knowing that you're a straight shooter and that you're not gonna mess around.
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And and I think that that needed to be highlighted because I've seen it, I've experienced it, and there's a lot of value in that.
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I appreciate that.
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And and yeah, I I I always tell that's double-edged sword, I let I let the audience decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
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But I don't want to waste anybody's time.
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I don't want to give anybody false hope.
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Uh, you know, like when I, you know, and I and I and I proudly say this about Solaribank.
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When we look at a deal, 95% of the time, when we said yes in the beginning, all the way through the end, we funded it.
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You know, that 5% is it usually is because borrowers not being transparent or because borrowers not, you know, giving us what we need, right?
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Or they're they're they're picking and choosing what they tell us, right?
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They're not telling us the whole story up front, right?
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And we we like the transparency, we believe in transparency.
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And so, and so to highlight that even more, like yes, please be upfront with your deal.
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You know, if your deal has holes on the walls, then that you're buying, tell me about it, because I will find out when I get an appraisal.
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And you've already paid a thousand bucks for it, you know?
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And so, yeah, I I uh I am a straight shooter, but I I try to do with uh with good intentions because again, I I care about people and and and their investment.
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This is a passion of mine, and so uh it's when you see it reciprocate both ways, it's it's amazing what you can do.
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And and so I'll go with my first deal, and I and I and I I love talking about deals because uh I'm a you know a nerd when it comes to banking and financing and building verticals.
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And so when I was developing this product, we were very, very conservative.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.919
And so um, this was actually one of my first deals.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.360
We had to make like three exceptions, and I'll tell you why, right?
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:04.640
Uh, year built in 1916, as you can see, we we didn't do any properties below 1950.
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:04.960
Okay.
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.160
This property's in 19.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.279
Yeah, that's old.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.680
That's uh, you know, 150, it's crusty.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:12.880
Yes, that is, that is indeed.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:18.160
And so, like, uh, but here's what happened this investor, you know, bought it uh with their own cash.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.119
Uh, they bought it, I think if I'm not mistaken, for$40,000.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:21.920
Okay.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:34.559
They uh got a hard money lender who gave them$100,000 to you know, Vermont, as you can tell in the picture, a whole kitchen, flooring, I mean, it's recoded, you know, there's granite countertops, right?
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.000
It's it looks very nice, right?
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:36.640
It's been Vermont.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.400
100,000 went into it.
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:46.799
Um, obviously they underestimated their expenses, so it actually ended up being about 150,000, is what actually went into the deal.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:57.920
And so the borrower came to Solera Bank to refinance on what's called permanent financing or long-term financing to pay off the hard money lender and to have this property be owned by their portfolio.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:58.880
So we did this deal.
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:00.960
The exceptions were made was the year.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.359
Uh, the exceptions were made was the remodel.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:17.359
We try to uh, you know, because the property is kind of old, we did require a inspection, a thorough inspection, termite and foundation inspection of engineering to make sure that the foundation's good, the, you know, that there's no like termite or any damage from termites.
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:18.559
Because again, it's an older property.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:27.519
I mean, at this, we did this deal in, I think it was, if I'm not mistaken, in 20 uh 23, 22, actually, if I'm not mistaken.
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.440
They they were modeled at the year we finished.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:34.079
And so when you look at that, you know, he was getting a lot of strong rents.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.119
It was a duplex.
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.359
Uh, it doesn't seem like that on the pictures, but it is a duplex.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:38.880
That's two sides to this house.
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:40.319
So he was getting really strong income.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.359
So this property cash flowed two to one.
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:44.799
It's amazing.
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.440
Like, think of it that for every dollar you're spending, you're making a dollar.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.799
I mean, this, you know, we we have this term, it's a cash cow, right?
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.720
It just produces cash.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.759
And so the risk for us was it was mitigated, right?
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.599
Yes, it's old, right?
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:05.519
Yes, it's been remodeled, it's a strong cash flow, and he only wanted at that time our our max LTV was 60%.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.359
And so um, so we we finance 60% of his acquisition.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.960
So the way we do that is when you have when we have listeners who do fix and flips, listeners that are you know doing fix and holds, think about this one.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:26.480
When you come to a non-recourse lender like Solar National Bank, we're not gonna give you ARV, which is a pro uh after remodel value.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:32.640
We're not gonna give you that, even though traditional you know, debt service coverage ratios and non-recourse lenders might.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.680
The reason why we won't is because everything's owned by your IRA or your 401k.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.160
So I'm not, I can't give you more than what you put into it because that's all profits for you now, right?
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:43.279
You have no skin in the game.
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:50.240
And so the way we do it is we do purchase price plus documented remodel at our threshold.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:59.440
So it's it's either 85% of the total acquisition cost or 75% loan and value today's terms, lesser of the two.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:04.160
So for example, if you had a house, I'm I'm gonna use sake math 100 grand.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:13.440
If I bought a property for 100, uh for 50,000, put 50,000 into it, I'm all in 100,000, but now it's worth ARB 150.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.480
Solar Bank's only gonna give you a loan for 85,000.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.640
Again, that doesn't meet our minimum loan requirements.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.799
I just did that for the sake of math, right?
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:23.039
But that's how it works, right?
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.000
Uh, any questions, Joel, before I go to scenario number two?
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:27.359
No, I love this scenario.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.440
I love that um you highlighted that you made some exceptions on this property.
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:39.599
Obviously, it made sense, and you had to get into the details, you had to get that transparency from your borrower to understand could this make sense?
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:40.559
And obviously it did.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:41.759
So I appreciate that.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:43.039
Absolutely.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.319
Um, I I know our listeners do short-term rentals.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.200
I'm sure there's gonna be one or two of you uh or many.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:55.200
Solaribank is very short-term uh rental friendly, so we do finance.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:16.079
Um, I will say right away, just kind of like for education purposes only, before you get into short-term rentals, if you've never done that before, the first thing you want to do is make sure the state and the county and the dwelling allows you to have short-term rental inside that building or inside that neighborhood or inside that county, right?
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:33.920
The reason why we say that is because we have seen stories, we have seen clients of ours, and we have heard stories where investor bought a house through their retirement account, and then the city or the state and city laws and county laws have told them you can no longer do short-term rentals.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.319
And so they bought a property and thinking they can get so much income, right?
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.640
Because short-term was a lot of income, right?
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.000
And now they got to go to long term rental markets, and now the deal does not make any sense.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.680
And so the first thing I want to say is Solari Bank does do short term rentals.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:54.240
Solaribank loves short term rentals, but we are a little bit more strict with short term rentals because that is the first question we're gonna ask.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.839
Did you get something in writing from the city or state or county that it you're allowed to do short term rentals?
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.000
In that area, right?
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.960
Yeah, and so many changes are being made with communities about short-term renting.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:07.680
Correct.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.400
You know, it's it's evolving more and more over time.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.720
So they've got to be conscientious of those changes.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.440
Yeah, because when short-term rentals became a thing, right?
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.000
AirDNA, uh Airbnb, AirDNA is like the record software that tells you what the rents can be generated.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.480
Uh Airbnb is the actual platform for customers.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.720
I mean, when it first launched, right, everybody was giving their house for short-term rentals, right?
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.359
Or building their garage to be a short-term rental, right?
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:31.599
Yeah.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:39.200
But like as uh as that evolved, they the the city and counties have and states even they said no stop.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.200
Like you're ruining neighborhoods, right?
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.359
Because you have a bunch of random people coming to that neighborhood, you know, there's safety concerns and stuff.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.119
So, like, that's the first thing we ask.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.160
Before you call Solar Bank, do your homework.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:50.640
Okay.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.200
Yep.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.200
Um, I'll give you guys an example.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.680
This property, we did a short-term rental in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.559
A one bedroom, one bath, a single-family home.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.759
As you can see, 720 square feet, very small.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.359
Um, it is truly a looks like a cabin, but it is a house.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.599
It's it's the dwelling is one to four family.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.480
Um, estimated rents was about$4,000 a month.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.400
Purchase price was$415,000.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:22.720
The borough had$50,000 about roughly about uh$255,000 in his IRA, and he could roll over an additional about$50,000 if needed.
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.799
Well, obviously, you know, everybody says their rents are gonna be high.
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.200
Well, as a bank, we're gonna verify that, right?
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.960
Because again, like I said, at the end of the day, what I care about as a bank, as an institution, how do we get paid back in good faith?
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:41.519
And if we don't, we gotta be able to get our we gotta be made whole with the the collateral property.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:47.519
So in this specific example, we did a verification, as you can see on the bottom, we did a red estimate through Air DNA.
00:23:47.839 --> 00:24:00.000
Again, Air DNA is the investor supporting data for Airbnb properties, and then Rabu is another platform that does the same thing and similar thing, and so this borrower came to us prepared.
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:07.359
He they verified that it's allowed to have short-term rentals in that area, and pigeon fortune, tons of tons of short-term rentals.
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:14.319
They came with Air DNA data with houses that were three or four down the down the street from this house and what it produced in income.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.480
They also came with a um experience, right?
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.559
We don't need experience, but it helped, right?
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.480
And so we gave this person max leverage.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.079
We gave them 70% at that time.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.279
That was where our terms were.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.039
We gave them 70% leverage.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.960
House was built in 1996.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.119
It as you can see, it looks like a cabin, right?
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.519
But again, the cash flow was strong.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:38.319
Um, you know, we do stress tests as as as banks, we do stress cash flow as well.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.160
So that that was another thing, right?
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.039
So that was uh so we love short-term rentals.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.519
Uh, we encourage people to do it, but just do your homework.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440
Uh, do your due diligence is the term you probably hear often in the real estate space.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.960
Do your due diligence, right?
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:52.640
That that's the first thing you want to do.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.119
Any questions, Joe, before I go to the next example?
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.400
No, fantastic short-term rental case study.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:59.359
I appreciate that.
00:24:59.599 --> 00:24:59.920
Yeah.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:05.039
Last example I'll give is uh it's a four-bedroom, Mercer Island, right?
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.799
Four-bedroom, uh, four two-bath purchase price 1.12 million.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:09.200
Yeah.
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:10.160
Yeah.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.240
Expected rents were 4,100.
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:23.119
Uh, bar had a lot of money in the IRA, so they just put money down 50% leverage, and we financed this deal because again, pen to paper, penciled out, deal made sense, debt service requirement was met.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.960
And so we financed again.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.799
This house is worth a million bucks.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.160
So, as you may see, there's a trend.
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.079
We could do houses as low as 160 all the way up into the millions.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:42.160
This almost looks like one of those properties that uh uh a client or a borrower might distribute to themselves when they reach distribution age.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.519
That was a beautiful looking home.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:44.319
Holy cow!
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:50.000
Yeah, so a funny part about this house is it is 15 doors down from Bill Gates' home.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:50.240
Absolutely.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:50.960
No way.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:52.240
Okay, I could see that.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.759
I could totally see that.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.079
Just some housekeeping items, right?
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:08.480
Um, obviously, when you buy with an IRA, um, again, we're not giving a legal tax device here, but I just want to remind everybody if you're buying with an IRA, the portion you borrow, it is subject to UBIT and UDFI tax.
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:16.319
So, you know, do your some homework, talk to your tax advisors, talk to your CPAs uh or lawyers that can help you maybe structure that to understand that.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:24.079
Um the basis of it is the portion you finance, you you are obligated to pay some taxes on that, right?
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.720
There is a form called Form 990T.
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.240
If it goes over$1,000, you have to pay, right?
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:41.279
Um, IRS wants to collect their portion of um you know of taxes on income you're generating from properties that are in your retirement account, specifically IRAs, not solo 401ks.
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.920
Again, I'm not giving you legal of tax advice, but that's just something that we uh that's like industry standard uh of of knowledge.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.559
Um that's always tied to the debt financed portion, correct?
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.480
Only the percentage of debt finance.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.240
So for example, if you in it's a great question, and I have an outline here.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:04.079
Uh it's only the finance percentage of the of the income and only financed of the debt finance.
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:13.599
So if I did a uh let's say$200,000 property, 50% LTV, and a hundred thousand dollar loan, the debt UDFI and UBID is subject to that portion I financed.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:14.400
Phenomenal.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.440
Thank you for that clarity.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:15.920
Perfect.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.039
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:21.759
Um, I mean, again, this is just talks about solo 401ks versus IRAs.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:32.240
Again, IRAs uh are subject to it, solo 401ks in most cases are not, but again, there is subsections that potentially could, depending on type of 401k you have, right?
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:42.640
Um, just uh I like to kind of always say, like, again, Solar National Bank finances one to four families, short-term, long-term rentals, turnkey properties, or in good condition homes.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.000
Solaribank does not do not do fix and flip.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:48.319
Solaribank does not do fix and hold.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:55.119
Solaribank come in and do a permanent financing, as the example I gave in scenario one, but we will not do the actual project piece.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.680
We're not gonna do actually the remodel piece, right?
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:01.839
Um, Solaribank is, yeah, we do have some strict rules when it comes to bankruptcies, right?
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:12.240
If you are if you've bankrupted in the last usually seven years, that's I'm not gonna say we're gonna decline you, but that's uh, you know, that that puts some uh, as we say, hair on the deal, right?
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.079
We gotta do some mitigation there, right?
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:21.039
Maybe you put more money down, maybe you, you know, uh maybe we charge you a little bit of premium on the rate because it's a riskier deal, right?
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.920
I'm not gonna say we're not gonna do it, but that's something to keep in mind.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:31.519
I would say if you're if you are delinquent, that is one of the biggest, like we decline people for delinquency more than bankruptcies.
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.839
The reason why is delinquency is tells me you don't know how to pay your bills.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:36.559
Yeah.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:42.880
And the only that I can the only thing I care about as a bank is for you to pay me my bills that I just gave you a loan on, right?
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:43.680
And so sure.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:45.359
Um, and foreclosures, obviously.
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.440
Like if you have a foreclosure in the last three years, that that's a worrisome, right?
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.160
We probably want to auto-decline you, to be quite frank.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.119
Um, you know, obviously there's some things that are non-negotiable.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:03.680
If it's weak cash flow, if it didn't meet the 1.2, 1.25 DSCR, obviously, again, that that's that's that's that's that's a no-go, right?
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:10.559
If it's like 110 or the property finances, you know, property making 5% income, that's a that's a big red flag.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.880
Because one small maintenance cost blows up your whole cash flow for the year, right?
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.799
So we as bank think about those things.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:22.319
So like obviously we try to be at that minimum, but if you have to drop just one or two percentage, that's fine.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.799
But if you're dropping five, 10%, that's a problem.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.720
Uh poor property conditions, right?
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.319
That's another big thing we always tell.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.039
Be transparent.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.319
When you're coming to us, we're gonna ask you, is a property in livable condition?
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.039
Doesn't have to be turnkey, maybe, but it has to be in livable condition.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:36.960
You know, small pain touches, right?
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:37.759
You could do that.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.000
And then obviously the biggest thing is inefficient funds.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.119
If you don't have enough money in your retirement, I I can't help you because again, I can't use any other proceeds to finance.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.200
Just plain and simple.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:54.400
Um I we won't get into details of other uh we do have, I will I want to say we do have a portal.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:30:07.680
Uh, it's called uh www.solaralending.com, uh, where you can go and actually pre-cash flow your own property, pre-underwrite your own deal, see if it mits our uh you know preliminary underwriting.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.160
And honestly, all of that is there.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.680
It it walks you through, you can get your own pre-approval letters uh to go submit your uh you know your offers.
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.359
And so you can go to www.solera lending.com.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:27.680
You can also reach out to me at 303-937-6429, or email me at avram at solar bank.com.
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.039
Uh, you know, we'd love to talk to you, and and that's really about it.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.039
Hopefully you guys found this useful.
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.200
Yeah, I I promise you that they did.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.079
I found it useful.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.880
It's always good for me to even go through some of this information.
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.599
And this is your chance to take a breath.
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:49.680
Um, I know that that was a lot that you shared, and you you you really did a good job putting a ton of information into a short period of time here.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:52.720
So um, Abe, thanks so much for coming in.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:31:02.880
Uh, this looks like uh the the page that you were referencing for those that are watching the presentation, those listening, Soleralending.com uh going through the calculator here.
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.720
I've been through this myself, I know what it looks like, and it's a powerful tool.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.880
I I know that you put a lot of thought into this.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:19.119
You made it as simple as possible for a potential borrower to understand their their options and and quite frankly, if if it's an opportunity or or not.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.200
So appreciate your time, Abe.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:28.720
Uh always good to have you on our self directed edge podcast, and um definitely gonna have you come back another time.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:37.599
But uh with that being said, appreciate everybody taking the time out of their day to listen and uh join us next week for another episode, and we'll talk to you later.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:38.079
Bye bye.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:38.880
Thanks, everybody.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.160
Welcome back everybody to the Self-Directed Edge podcast.
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:10.240
I'm your host, Joel Lannon from Heritage IRA, and I've got with us a returning guest, Abram Shabanyan.
00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:11.439
Abe, how are you doing, man?
00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:13.039
I'm doing wonderful, man.
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:13.679
How are you?
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Really, really good.
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I know we promised the listeners that you would come back for a part two of non-recourse lending, and you've made all the preparations in the world to showcase what that looks like for any self-directed IRA investor that's looking to use their IRA to borrow and finance uh real estate.
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Welcome to the Self-Directed Edge.
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Podcast for investors who want their retirement capital doing more than sitting in the market.
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I'm your host, Joel Landon, with Heritage IRA.
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So we're going to look to you, the expert, for that information.
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I know you've got some uh slides to share with us as well.
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So I'm just gonna turn the floor over to you, if you wouldn't mind taking us through it.
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And of course, I'll have some questions for you in the meantime, if that's okay.
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All right, so well, we're gonna be talking about domestifying non-recourse loans.
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Uh, as we talked about the first time, we talked, you know, maybe more broad terms, right, what it is, how it's structured.
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And today I want to focus on the deals, right?
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I want to focus on how you could own real estate, a hard asset that gives you, you know, generates income through your retirement account, right?
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Uh, whether that's an IRA, uh, whether that's a solo 401k, and the ability to grow your retirement instead of investing to, you know, let's say Apple stock, hypothetically, right?
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Now you're investing into a hard asset real estate and have a bank that can help you leverage your retirement, right?
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And so I'm gonna be going through, you know, there'll be some terms that our guests will hear that we they heard on our first podcast, but it's a good reminder, it's a good uh reminder for education reasons, but also just to kind of let the flow go and to kind of talk about each deal independently.
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And so, you know, for our listeners, uh, you know, we'll be pretty in detailed of our conversation for our viewers, you know, and recommend everybody to view this podcast and and watch the video so you can see the actual uh presentation.
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So uh let's see here.
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Are my slides changing on your side?
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Uh there it is.
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Yep.
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Awesome.
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All righty.
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Well, you know, Solar National Bank, a little background, Solera National Bank uh, you know, you know, is a bank that is outside uh here in Lakewood, Colorado.
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We specialize in uh non-recourse lending specifically to buy and finance real estate that's one to four family, five plus that's in good conditioned homes, or a term that a lot of our investors, real estate investors use called turnkey.
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So Solera has financed over$100 million of loans.
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Solera has uh you know been around for for about going on about 12 years in in a self-directed uh space, been doing about seven years of lending.
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And so we lend in all 50 states, uh, you know, uh subject to New York, New Jersey.
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Those are a little bit different requirements and love to hear uh from our real estate investors in New York, New Jersey.
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We can still help you, just you know, reach out to me.
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But you know, really I want to talk about a little bit about the structure, right?
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Um, non-recourse as a reminder is is is what I mean by definition is you're not personally guaranteeing the loan.
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And you know, the the borrower is your retirement account, in this case, your IRA, and there is no really any other way to think about it, right?
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You're we're not pulling your financials, we're not looking at your tax returns, we're not looking at your W-2s, because they're relevant, right?
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All I'm gonna look at is your retirement account, the cash you have in your self-directed IRA or your solo phone, okay?
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And I'm gonna look at simply how much money do you have in your retirement, how come how much we can leverage, you know, we can leverage and finance to 75% loan to value, right?
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25% is minimum down payment, and how much of that will translate in purchase power, right?
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And so, you know, and then you go in, you know, you seek your property, you seek your investment to get a contract uh under your retirement account.
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And so Solaribank does do a lot of structures.
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Um, you know, as uh heritage IRA, they're a custodian.
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So, you know, we do custodial IRAs, we do IRA LLCs, IRA trusts, solo 401ks, uh special entities or special struct uh you know specialized entities that are owned by an IRA or solo 401k.
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So we do quite a bit of structures, and so as long as the member is a retirement account, we can definitely lend uh to it.
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Uh there is some you know requirements that in in case it's you know partners and you know non-spousal individuals partnering together, but we're not gonna get into the deals details of that because not many people do that anyways.
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Okay, so just a little bit of clarity, Abram.
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Um, I think that that was super valuable what you just shared.
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I love that you highlighted that ultimately the retirement account is the borrower, it's not the individual.
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That's a really big shift, I think, for most investors, right?
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And and you even brought up, hey, we don't need to see your financial statement.
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We're more more focused and more interested in the retirement account as the borrower.
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Love that you also put up that you lend uh on properties or you secure dwellings in all 50 states.
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Uh and then of course you did mention there's some terms that are a little unique to some of those other outside, you know, outlier states, if you will.
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Um, but you you get into those specifics with the borrowers um as needed.
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So I appreciate that.
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That's that's good information there.
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Yeah, no, for sure.
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I appreciate you commenting on that.
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And I and one thing I'll say is uh I like to kind of give this illustration, right?
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There's big banks, right?
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Big box banks, and think of a box, okay?
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And a lot of times banks they do they like to be in this box.
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They say if it doesn't fit this box, I will not touch it.
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I will not do it.
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I you know, it's rigged, it's one size fits all.
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There, you know, take it or leave it, right?
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Whatever words you want to use.
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There's there's no room to structure a deal to really help the investor to understand what their needs are, right?
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And I I've dealt with hundreds of real estate investors, I've dealt with thousands, probably individuals in my you know, 12 years in banking.
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And what I realize is that you cannot take the approach of take it or leave it or one size fits all.
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You just can't.
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And so I think what what a bank like us does, right, and and I'll tell you why what I'm saying is because when you look at a non-recourse lender, there is thousands of them around the United States, thousands, right?
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They all do non-recourse lending, but the minute they see that the members in IRA or solo 401k, I like to say they go reverse, put it back in reverse, we're backing out of the deal, and they they're keeping the investors strangled, right?
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They they stranded in in the middle of nowhere, no gas, there's no gas station nearby, and now they're trying to find gas.
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How far do they have to walk to get in?
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And Solera Bank is one of the few lenders in the country, and I don't mean in the state, in the country that specializes in non-recourse lending specifically for retirement accounts as being members.
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And that is a small bank approach.
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I'm getting that, yeah.
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We decided to get out of the the that rigged thinking one size fits all and say, okay, you know what?
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Let's be different.
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Let's understand this industry of self-direction, right?
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Which is it's an amazing thing.
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I think the uh, you know, I think the stock market and the brokers do everything they can to like have everybody be in this like Wall Street, right?
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It's like think different, break free from the Wall Street world, break free from that thinking process and take control of your retirement, take control of your future, right?
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And so Solar has a small piece of that puzzle, and you know, being involved in it for so many years and doing so many deals, it's amazing to see that we're helping people generate wealth through their retirement and their returns to their retirement by using a real estate vehicle.
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And so Solaribank, you know, we do have flexible terms, we have flexible understanding, right?
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There, you know, that's why we don't require your taxes because it doesn't make sense to ask for something if I'm not gonna be able to use it, right?
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Yeah, I do pull people's credit, right, to make sure we talk about their credibility and you know their responsibility as a as a borrower, right?
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But I I'm not gonna look at your W-2s because they're not gonna help the cash flow of the deal.
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Yeah, and so what we look at is strictly retirement or real estate and what the cash flow is, and can it sustain its own debt that they're borrowing, right?
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And so uh a little bit about our terms before I get into it.
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Joel, do you have something you want to say or throw it there?
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No, I love the the slide that you had up.
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You don't have to go back to it, but I love that you had the box for the big box bank.
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But then I was getting some boutique vibes from the other diagram where you showed that bag.
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You you could tell that that's kind of got that boutique feel.
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And in all reality, I would sum up what you mentioned about flexibility, common sense, structuring as more boutique banking, and uh who better to go to for that kind of servicing than you guys.
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So I I appreciate you uh almost drawing a line in the sand, like hey, this is where we're different.
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This is this is what you can expect from a firm like ours compared to the competition or compared to really the too big, uh, the too big to fail bank uh box, if you will.
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Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
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And you know, I uh I'll say this, uh, you know, it's important to understand that, you know, I think Wall Street does uh um I you know, I'm I'm gonna say fear-mongling, right?
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They they fear people into thinking the only way to do it is to invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, right?
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And look, for some people that's important, for some people that gives them peace of mind, right?
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It gives them, you know, they can sleep well at night, right?
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That that's that's beautiful.
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I'm not gonna say one thing is better than the other because I don't believe in that.
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But it's so amazing when you have somebody that says, you know what, I could do Wall Street, but I can also do self-direction, I can also invest into alternative assets outside of the Wall Street, and they're all qualified, you know, qualified investments.
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And again, one of those alternative investments is the real estate asset.
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And I think, you know, when we look at terms that we're gonna discuss right now, right?
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Our bag, I thought, you know, I think of it, and you know, you took words out of my mouth is you know, when you go to a prestigious luxury store, they give you this nice, beautiful bag, you know, and usually they give it, you know, if you buy a gift, they wrap it so nice, the box is really nice, yeah, the bag is beautiful, right?
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So you can hand it the that gift to somebody and say, hey, they're really gonna enjoy it when they open that, right?
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Yeah, the whole experience.
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So, like that's this is our bag, right?
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We have flexible terms, right?
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There's uh, you know options, right?
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It's not just one term.
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We have a 7-1 arm, it's an adjustable mortgage.
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We have a 10-1 arm, it's an adjustable mortgage.
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Even though it says no flexibility, but that the choices are what the flexibilities are, right?
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You don't have to go 25-year-fixed, right?
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Um there is some things that are not flexible, right?
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We can't, you know, there's max rate above your rate that's set.
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There is uh, you know, one of the because there are adjustable mortgages, they have to have a plus or minus, right?
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At the at the adjustment, we have to require appraisals.
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It's a it's a it's a regulatory requirement, right?
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As banks, you know, we we require 30-year meritization.
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Might sound like a no flexibility bad thing, but it's not.
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The more amoritization you get, the more your cash flow will happen.
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Because right, you're spreading your your debt service over 30 years versus 20 years, right?
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Uh we have a 25-year rate fixed rate product.
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That's just, you know, it's it's it's it's just what it is, right?
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Those three terms, they're what they are, they have their own things, right?
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Things that are kind of are flexible, right?
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Um, you know, terms and fees, right?
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Uh, you know, we do have uh DSCR calculator, which stands for debt to service coverage ratio.
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And the bank wants to see a 20%, well, we would say they want to see a 20% net operating income, which is the cash flow, right?
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And the way I like to think about that, and I always tell my investors, the way you want to think about it is for every dollar you spend, for every dollar you spend on your real estate deal, you know, principal, interest, taxes, insurance, HOA, property management fee, all those things are your expenses, right?
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Maintenance on the property, right?
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Those are all pro expenses.
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Say that equals to a dollar, okay?
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You have to bring a dollar twenty uh twenty in income, right?
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Your gross rents has to be dollar twenty.
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And so when we look at the calculation, right, and and if you fall a little bit short, let's say it's you know, instead of 20 cents, you're making 18 cents.
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I don't want to say no to you on the deal.
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Because if you're comfortable, and you know, maybe we may we make an exception for that real estate deal, right?
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Because it's a strong property in a you know in a metro metro area, right?
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Or it's a it's a it's a property that's appreciated in the last five years, right?
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There's so many different things you can look at to determine is that property really worth financing in case of defaults, right?
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Because as a bank, I I always like to be transparent with my investors.
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I tell them, look, bank cares about one thing.
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We do all this like processing, underwriting, right?
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Approvals, but at the end of the day, all we care about is the money we give you that you're gonna pay us back in good faith.
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And if not, I'm gonna secure myself with the collateral, the real estate asset, to make sure that if you don't pay me and you're not gonna be uh, you know, man or woman of your own word, then I'm gonna take that property and force you to pay me back so I don't lose any money.
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And so Solaribank is a little bit flexible with the debt service coverage percentage.
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Solaribank, you know, we have a minimum loan amount, it's 125, right?
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But if you got a property and you need a loan for 120, like we're we're gonna say yes.
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We're not gonna not do it because you didn't meet that small threshold, right?
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Um, you know, we require six months reserve.
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Um, you know, we can finance up to 75% LTV.
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Those are, I mean, just to kind of put it in perspective, you know, we're saying these terms, right?
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75% LTV is simply if you bought a property for$100,000, your purchase price has to be about$140,000, right?
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To put it in, remember if you're if you're if your minimum loan amount is$125,000, which is what the screen says, then your purchase price is about$170,000.
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I mean, there's a lot of properties in that$170, up range, right?
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And we can go up to into the millions, right?
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Um, I kind of want to give like an example of an actual deal, right?
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This is a deal we've done.
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Before you do that, Abe, I just want to highlight something.
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Sure.
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You know, coming from the horse's mouth, I've known you for a while.
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You are a straight shooter.
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There's no doubt about it.
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I mean, I I know you.
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I you've interacted with you know some of our clients.
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You are a straight shooter, and I like it.
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And I know that our I know that investors like it.
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I know that borrowers appreciate that truth.
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No beating around the bush.
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So I like that you've um mentioned, hey, we're gonna make some exceptions here and there, case by case.
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We're not gonna lose an opportunity both ways if you come up short by five thousand dollars.
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But at the same time, investors, borrowers, they can they can walk away from this presentation knowing that you're a straight shooter and that you're not gonna mess around.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:26.080
And and I think that that needed to be highlighted because I've seen it, I've experienced it, and there's a lot of value in that.
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I appreciate that.
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And and yeah, I I I always tell that's double-edged sword, I let I let the audience decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
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But I don't want to waste anybody's time.
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I don't want to give anybody false hope.
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Uh, you know, like when I, you know, and I and I and I proudly say this about Solaribank.
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When we look at a deal, 95% of the time, when we said yes in the beginning, all the way through the end, we funded it.
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You know, that 5% is it usually is because borrowers not being transparent or because borrowers not, you know, giving us what we need, right?
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Or they're they're they're picking and choosing what they tell us, right?
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They're not telling us the whole story up front, right?
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And we we like the transparency, we believe in transparency.
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:13.919
And so, and so to highlight that even more, like yes, please be upfront with your deal.
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You know, if your deal has holes on the walls, then that you're buying, tell me about it, because I will find out when I get an appraisal.
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And you've already paid a thousand bucks for it, you know?
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:32.720
And so, yeah, I I uh I am a straight shooter, but I I try to do with uh with good intentions because again, I I care about people and and and their investment.
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This is a passion of mine, and so uh it's when you see it reciprocate both ways, it's it's amazing what you can do.
00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:48.320
And and so I'll go with my first deal, and I and I and I I love talking about deals because uh I'm a you know a nerd when it comes to banking and financing and building verticals.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.720
And so when I was developing this product, we were very, very conservative.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.919
And so um, this was actually one of my first deals.
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We had to make like three exceptions, and I'll tell you why, right?
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:04.640
Uh, year built in 1916, as you can see, we we didn't do any properties below 1950.
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:04.960
Okay.
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This property's in 19.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.279
Yeah, that's old.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.680
That's uh, you know, 150, it's crusty.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:12.880
Yes, that is, that is indeed.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:18.160
And so, like, uh, but here's what happened this investor, you know, bought it uh with their own cash.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.119
Uh, they bought it, I think if I'm not mistaken, for$40,000.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:21.920
Okay.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:34.559
They uh got a hard money lender who gave them$100,000 to you know, Vermont, as you can tell in the picture, a whole kitchen, flooring, I mean, it's recoded, you know, there's granite countertops, right?
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:36.000
It's it looks very nice, right?
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:36.640
It's been Vermont.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.400
100,000 went into it.
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:46.799
Um, obviously they underestimated their expenses, so it actually ended up being about 150,000, is what actually went into the deal.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:57.920
And so the borrower came to Solera Bank to refinance on what's called permanent financing or long-term financing to pay off the hard money lender and to have this property be owned by their portfolio.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:58.880
So we did this deal.
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:00.960
The exceptions were made was the year.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.359
Uh, the exceptions were made was the remodel.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:17.359
We try to uh, you know, because the property is kind of old, we did require a inspection, a thorough inspection, termite and foundation inspection of engineering to make sure that the foundation's good, the, you know, that there's no like termite or any damage from termites.
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:18.559
Because again, it's an older property.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:27.519
I mean, at this, we did this deal in, I think it was, if I'm not mistaken, in 20 uh 23, 22, actually, if I'm not mistaken.
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.440
They they were modeled at the year we finished.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:34.079
And so when you look at that, you know, he was getting a lot of strong rents.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.119
It was a duplex.
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.359
Uh, it doesn't seem like that on the pictures, but it is a duplex.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:38.880
That's two sides to this house.
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:40.319
So he was getting really strong income.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.359
So this property cash flowed two to one.
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:44.799
It's amazing.
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.440
Like, think of it that for every dollar you're spending, you're making a dollar.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.799
I mean, this, you know, we we have this term, it's a cash cow, right?
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.720
It just produces cash.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.759
And so the risk for us was it was mitigated, right?
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.599
Yes, it's old, right?
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:05.519
Yes, it's been remodeled, it's a strong cash flow, and he only wanted at that time our our max LTV was 60%.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.359
And so um, so we we finance 60% of his acquisition.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.960
So the way we do that is when you have when we have listeners who do fix and flips, listeners that are you know doing fix and holds, think about this one.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:26.480
When you come to a non-recourse lender like Solar National Bank, we're not gonna give you ARV, which is a pro uh after remodel value.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:32.640
We're not gonna give you that, even though traditional you know, debt service coverage ratios and non-recourse lenders might.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.680
The reason why we won't is because everything's owned by your IRA or your 401k.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.160
So I'm not, I can't give you more than what you put into it because that's all profits for you now, right?
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:43.279
You have no skin in the game.
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:50.240
And so the way we do it is we do purchase price plus documented remodel at our threshold.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:59.440
So it's it's either 85% of the total acquisition cost or 75% loan and value today's terms, lesser of the two.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:04.160
So for example, if you had a house, I'm I'm gonna use sake math 100 grand.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:13.440
If I bought a property for 100, uh for 50,000, put 50,000 into it, I'm all in 100,000, but now it's worth ARB 150.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.480
Solar Bank's only gonna give you a loan for 85,000.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.640
Again, that doesn't meet our minimum loan requirements.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.799
I just did that for the sake of math, right?
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:23.039
But that's how it works, right?
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.000
Uh, any questions, Joel, before I go to scenario number two?
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:27.359
No, I love this scenario.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.440
I love that um you highlighted that you made some exceptions on this property.
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:39.599
Obviously, it made sense, and you had to get into the details, you had to get that transparency from your borrower to understand could this make sense?
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:40.559
And obviously it did.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:41.759
So I appreciate that.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:43.039
Absolutely.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.319
Um, I I know our listeners do short-term rentals.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.200
I'm sure there's gonna be one or two of you uh or many.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:55.200
Solaribank is very short-term uh rental friendly, so we do finance.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:16.079
Um, I will say right away, just kind of like for education purposes only, before you get into short-term rentals, if you've never done that before, the first thing you want to do is make sure the state and the county and the dwelling allows you to have short-term rental inside that building or inside that neighborhood or inside that county, right?
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:33.920
The reason why we say that is because we have seen stories, we have seen clients of ours, and we have heard stories where investor bought a house through their retirement account, and then the city or the state and city laws and county laws have told them you can no longer do short-term rentals.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.319
And so they bought a property and thinking they can get so much income, right?
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.640
Because short-term was a lot of income, right?
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.000
And now they got to go to long term rental markets, and now the deal does not make any sense.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.680
And so the first thing I want to say is Solari Bank does do short term rentals.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:54.240
Solaribank loves short term rentals, but we are a little bit more strict with short term rentals because that is the first question we're gonna ask.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.839
Did you get something in writing from the city or state or county that it you're allowed to do short term rentals?
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.000
In that area, right?
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.960
Yeah, and so many changes are being made with communities about short-term renting.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:07.680
Correct.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.400
You know, it's it's evolving more and more over time.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.720
So they've got to be conscientious of those changes.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.440
Yeah, because when short-term rentals became a thing, right?
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.000
AirDNA, uh Airbnb, AirDNA is like the record software that tells you what the rents can be generated.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.480
Uh Airbnb is the actual platform for customers.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.720
I mean, when it first launched, right, everybody was giving their house for short-term rentals, right?
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.359
Or building their garage to be a short-term rental, right?
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:31.599
Yeah.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:39.200
But like as uh as that evolved, they the the city and counties have and states even they said no stop.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.200
Like you're ruining neighborhoods, right?
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.359
Because you have a bunch of random people coming to that neighborhood, you know, there's safety concerns and stuff.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.119
So, like, that's the first thing we ask.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.160
Before you call Solar Bank, do your homework.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:50.640
Okay.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.200
Yep.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.200
Um, I'll give you guys an example.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.680
This property, we did a short-term rental in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.559
A one bedroom, one bath, a single-family home.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.759
As you can see, 720 square feet, very small.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.359
Um, it is truly a looks like a cabin, but it is a house.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.599
It's it's the dwelling is one to four family.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.480
Um, estimated rents was about$4,000 a month.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.400
Purchase price was$415,000.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:22.720
The borough had$50,000 about roughly about uh$255,000 in his IRA, and he could roll over an additional about$50,000 if needed.
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.799
Well, obviously, you know, everybody says their rents are gonna be high.
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.200
Well, as a bank, we're gonna verify that, right?
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.960
Because again, like I said, at the end of the day, what I care about as a bank, as an institution, how do we get paid back in good faith?
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:41.519
And if we don't, we gotta be able to get our we gotta be made whole with the the collateral property.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:47.519
So in this specific example, we did a verification, as you can see on the bottom, we did a red estimate through Air DNA.
00:23:47.839 --> 00:24:00.000
Again, Air DNA is the investor supporting data for Airbnb properties, and then Rabu is another platform that does the same thing and similar thing, and so this borrower came to us prepared.
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:07.359
He they verified that it's allowed to have short-term rentals in that area, and pigeon fortune, tons of tons of short-term rentals.
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:14.319
They came with Air DNA data with houses that were three or four down the down the street from this house and what it produced in income.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.480
They also came with a um experience, right?
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.559
We don't need experience, but it helped, right?
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.480
And so we gave this person max leverage.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.079
We gave them 70% at that time.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.279
That was where our terms were.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.039
We gave them 70% leverage.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.960
House was built in 1996.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.119
It as you can see, it looks like a cabin, right?
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.519
But again, the cash flow was strong.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:38.319
Um, you know, we do stress tests as as as banks, we do stress cash flow as well.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.160
So that that was another thing, right?
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.039
So that was uh so we love short-term rentals.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.519
Uh, we encourage people to do it, but just do your homework.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440
Uh, do your due diligence is the term you probably hear often in the real estate space.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.960
Do your due diligence, right?
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:52.640
That that's the first thing you want to do.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.119
Any questions, Joe, before I go to the next example?
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.400
No, fantastic short-term rental case study.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:59.359
I appreciate that.
00:24:59.599 --> 00:24:59.920
Yeah.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:05.039
Last example I'll give is uh it's a four-bedroom, Mercer Island, right?
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.799
Four-bedroom, uh, four two-bath purchase price 1.12 million.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:09.200
Yeah.
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:10.160
Yeah.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.240
Expected rents were 4,100.
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:23.119
Uh, bar had a lot of money in the IRA, so they just put money down 50% leverage, and we financed this deal because again, pen to paper, penciled out, deal made sense, debt service requirement was met.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.960
And so we financed again.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.799
This house is worth a million bucks.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.160
So, as you may see, there's a trend.
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.079
We could do houses as low as 160 all the way up into the millions.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:42.160
This almost looks like one of those properties that uh uh a client or a borrower might distribute to themselves when they reach distribution age.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.519
That was a beautiful looking home.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:44.319
Holy cow!
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:50.000
Yeah, so a funny part about this house is it is 15 doors down from Bill Gates' home.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:50.240
Absolutely.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:50.960
No way.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:52.240
Okay, I could see that.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.759
I could totally see that.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.079
Just some housekeeping items, right?
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:08.480
Um, obviously, when you buy with an IRA, um, again, we're not giving a legal tax device here, but I just want to remind everybody if you're buying with an IRA, the portion you borrow, it is subject to UBIT and UDFI tax.
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:16.319
So, you know, do your some homework, talk to your tax advisors, talk to your CPAs uh or lawyers that can help you maybe structure that to understand that.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:24.079
Um the basis of it is the portion you finance, you you are obligated to pay some taxes on that, right?
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.720
There is a form called Form 990T.
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.240
If it goes over$1,000, you have to pay, right?
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:41.279
Um, IRS wants to collect their portion of um you know of taxes on income you're generating from properties that are in your retirement account, specifically IRAs, not solo 401ks.
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.920
Again, I'm not giving you legal of tax advice, but that's just something that we uh that's like industry standard uh of of knowledge.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.559
Um that's always tied to the debt financed portion, correct?
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.480
Only the percentage of debt finance.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.240
So for example, if you in it's a great question, and I have an outline here.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:04.079
Uh it's only the finance percentage of the of the income and only financed of the debt finance.
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:13.599
So if I did a uh let's say$200,000 property, 50% LTV, and a hundred thousand dollar loan, the debt UDFI and UBID is subject to that portion I financed.
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:14.400
Phenomenal.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.440
Thank you for that clarity.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:15.920
Perfect.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.039
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:21.759
Um, I mean, again, this is just talks about solo 401ks versus IRAs.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:32.240
Again, IRAs uh are subject to it, solo 401ks in most cases are not, but again, there is subsections that potentially could, depending on type of 401k you have, right?
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:42.640
Um, just uh I like to kind of always say, like, again, Solar National Bank finances one to four families, short-term, long-term rentals, turnkey properties, or in good condition homes.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.000
Solaribank does not do not do fix and flip.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:48.319
Solaribank does not do fix and hold.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:55.119
Solaribank come in and do a permanent financing, as the example I gave in scenario one, but we will not do the actual project piece.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.680
We're not gonna do actually the remodel piece, right?
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:01.839
Um, Solaribank is, yeah, we do have some strict rules when it comes to bankruptcies, right?
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:12.240
If you are if you've bankrupted in the last usually seven years, that's I'm not gonna say we're gonna decline you, but that's uh, you know, that that puts some uh, as we say, hair on the deal, right?
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.079
We gotta do some mitigation there, right?
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:21.039
Maybe you put more money down, maybe you, you know, uh maybe we charge you a little bit of premium on the rate because it's a riskier deal, right?
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.920
I'm not gonna say we're not gonna do it, but that's something to keep in mind.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:31.519
I would say if you're if you are delinquent, that is one of the biggest, like we decline people for delinquency more than bankruptcies.
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.839
The reason why is delinquency is tells me you don't know how to pay your bills.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:36.559
Yeah.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:42.880
And the only that I can the only thing I care about as a bank is for you to pay me my bills that I just gave you a loan on, right?
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:43.680
And so sure.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:45.359
Um, and foreclosures, obviously.
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.440
Like if you have a foreclosure in the last three years, that that's a worrisome, right?
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.160
We probably want to auto-decline you, to be quite frank.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.119
Um, you know, obviously there's some things that are non-negotiable.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:03.680
If it's weak cash flow, if it didn't meet the 1.2, 1.25 DSCR, obviously, again, that that's that's that's that's that's a no-go, right?
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:10.559
If it's like 110 or the property finances, you know, property making 5% income, that's a that's a big red flag.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.880
Because one small maintenance cost blows up your whole cash flow for the year, right?
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.799
So we as bank think about those things.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:22.319
So like obviously we try to be at that minimum, but if you have to drop just one or two percentage, that's fine.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.799
But if you're dropping five, 10%, that's a problem.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.720
Uh poor property conditions, right?
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.319
That's another big thing we always tell.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.039
Be transparent.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.319
When you're coming to us, we're gonna ask you, is a property in livable condition?
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.039
Doesn't have to be turnkey, maybe, but it has to be in livable condition.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:36.960
You know, small pain touches, right?
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:37.759
You could do that.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.000
And then obviously the biggest thing is inefficient funds.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.119
If you don't have enough money in your retirement, I I can't help you because again, I can't use any other proceeds to finance.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.200
Just plain and simple.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:54.400
Um I we won't get into details of other uh we do have, I will I want to say we do have a portal.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:30:07.680
Uh, it's called uh www.solaralending.com, uh, where you can go and actually pre-cash flow your own property, pre-underwrite your own deal, see if it mits our uh you know preliminary underwriting.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.160
And honestly, all of that is there.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.680
It it walks you through, you can get your own pre-approval letters uh to go submit your uh you know your offers.
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.359
And so you can go to www.solera lending.com.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:27.680
You can also reach out to me at 303-937-6429, or email me at avram at solar bank.com.
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.039
Uh, you know, we'd love to talk to you, and and that's really about it.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.039
Hopefully you guys found this useful.
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.200
Yeah, I I promise you that they did.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.079
I found it useful.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.880
It's always good for me to even go through some of this information.
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.599
And this is your chance to take a breath.
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:49.680
Um, I know that that was a lot that you shared, and you you you really did a good job putting a ton of information into a short period of time here.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:52.720
So um, Abe, thanks so much for coming in.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:31:02.880
Uh, this looks like uh the the page that you were referencing for those that are watching the presentation, those listening, Soleralending.com uh going through the calculator here.
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.720
I've been through this myself, I know what it looks like, and it's a powerful tool.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.880
I I know that you put a lot of thought into this.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:19.119
You made it as simple as possible for a potential borrower to understand their their options and and quite frankly, if if it's an opportunity or or not.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.200
So appreciate your time, Abe.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:28.720
Uh always good to have you on our self directed edge podcast, and um definitely gonna have you come back another time.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:37.599
But uh with that being said, appreciate everybody taking the time out of their day to listen and uh join us next week for another episode, and we'll talk to you later.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:38.079
Bye bye.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:38.880
Thanks, everybody.
