The Cash-Flow Trap That Takes Down Growing Roofing Companies | Ryan Holliday

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Is there anything that you feel contractors do
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wrong and it can be corrected whether it is their
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perspective or the use of data and the metrics
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overall? I would say that the number one thing
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that contractors are never great at is simply
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communicating and answering the phone. Are there
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anything that you can Tell these contractors
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from your experience that if you are starting
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out, then these are the things that you need
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to be looking for. You're running your business
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just based on how the insurance company is paying.
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You have to be prepared for, I would say, at
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least three to six months of just runway to make
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sure that you have enough to pay the bills and
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cover everything. They do not manage their money
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appropriately. And as soon as it comes in, it's
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right out the door. You certainly cannot do that
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in insurance claims. You really cannot do that.
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I would say this is probably an advantage for
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a contractor, but there's only so many things
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that you should be tracking when you are a contractor,
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right? There's not too many metrics that you
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need to pay attention to in order to be successful,
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but certain things that maybe they're not thinking
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about, like how quickly they answer the phone.
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No, I was just going to say, so managing. Managing
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your finances, I think, is the number one thing
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that contractors need to plan for if they're
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going to be serious about growing any sort of
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business in the industry. Talking to partners,
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talking to customers, you know, doing anything
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that you can to make the experience the best,
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that's what you're going to get out of it, right?
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You're going to get out what you take out of
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it. And if you don't take anything out of it,
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then of course, you're just going to say it wasn't
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worth anything, but that doesn't mean... Welcome
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to the Roofing Millionaires Podcast. Today, I
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sit down with Rayan Holliday, co -founder of
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Inc. and now vice president of customer success
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at Vami AI. We discuss why some contractors still
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resist technology, how AI is changing the claims
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process and the basic problems roofing companies
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continue to ignore, from answering the phone
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to maintaining enough cash reserves to survive
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insurance payment delays. Rayan also reflects
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on building Inc. starting a new chapter and how
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entrepreneurship and serious health challenges
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change this definition of success. Before we
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get into the conversation, subscribe to our YouTube
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channel and if you are listening this on Apple
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podcasts, leave us a five -star review. Let's
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dive in. Welcome to the Roofing Millionaires
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podcast, Ryan. It's a pleasure to have you on
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the show today. How are you feeling and how has
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been this year for you so far? Feeling great.
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This year has been fantastic. I had a pretty
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big change in my life where I transitioned from
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my company, Inc, to a new company. And so Inc
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is a payments company that I co -founded nearly
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10 years ago. And now I am the vice president
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of customer success over at Wami AI. So still
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within the same industry, but excited for the
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new opportunity. Okay. I didn't know that by
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the way. Thank you. I have my questions about
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ink, but we'll definitely discover what you are
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doing with this new venture as well. But before
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that, would you briefly introduce yourself for
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the audience? So people who are either watching
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or listening to this show, they know that how
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did you end up in the industry? Whereas I am
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assuming a lot of folks already know you, but
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even if someone doesn't know the experience and
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the exposure that you have in the roofing industry,
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so would you like? to introduce yourself deeply.
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Sure. So I'm Ryan Holliday. I am the co -founder
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of Inc and Inc is a payments company that was
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built to manage and process property claim checks.
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And our goal at that company is to eliminate
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paper checks entirely from property claims. I
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had gotten into the industry as a roofing salesman.
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And so when I moved to Florida back in 2016,
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I got started with a company in Jacksonville.
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started learning the industry and my first year
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in that business, I just experienced what it
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was like to deal with property claims and discovered
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that it was quite coversome to deal with the
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payments that the carriers had issued. So I had
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kind of out of that frustration of dealing with
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property claim checks, my business partner, who
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was a public adjuster and I got together one
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day and we decided to put an end to the madness
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as we call it. And that was the day that we you
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know, came up the idea for Inc. Okay, that's
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amazing. And I would just say one thing here
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that as you are not part of Inc anymore, do you
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mind discussing that what Inc is doing and what
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have you been doing with the Inc and how are
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you guys operating? Or do you feel that now your
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sole purpose of serving is with the new company
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and we should have this interview for the new
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company that you're working with. Yeah, so Inc
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is obviously still growing. We have a tremendous
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team in place over there and now they are really
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growing into some more enterprise servicing roles
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in the sense that, you know, you have a lot of
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different stakeholders who are involved with
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property claim payment. You know, you have the
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insurance company, you have the mortgage company,
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you have obviously the insureds. who are receiving
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the funds and then they have to pay the professionals
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that they're working with. So you could have
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claims professionals like an insurance company,
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or I'm sorry, a property attorney, you get a
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public adjuster, and they also have contractors
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who need to be paid to repair the property. So
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all these different entities that are part of
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the process that Inc. Services you know, now
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we're really moving more into partnerships with
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the mortgage companies. And that's exciting because
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we can obviously speed the process up for everybody,
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but really for those entities, we are saving
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them a tremendous amount of time and frustration
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and just having to deal with a paper check. So
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that's where ink is now. I imagine that over
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the next couple of years, you're going to see
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a lot of advancement on the enterprise side of
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the fence with a lot more mortgage partnerships
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and Hopefully some adoption soon from the insurance
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companies because our goal has always been and
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always will be to eliminate that paper check
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for the process. So that way folks can be paid
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expeditiously. So that's where ink is. And then,
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you know, for me, I feel like my contributions
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to ink is a company kind of. plateaued if you
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will, I think we have some very talented individuals
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on that team who are going to take the company
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much further than I could at this point. And
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there was an opportunity at whammy AI and whammy
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is a platform that's designed for claim auditing
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and the long and short of how to describe WANME
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because it has so many fantastic features, but
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the best way to describe it is that you can ingest
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all of the claim information that you need to
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so that everything can be analyzed from the policy
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to the damage photos, to the correspondence regarding
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the claim. Just essentially making sure that
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all the information is there that's needed either
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for litigation or defense of that certain matter.
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So it's an agnostic platform that is built for
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everybody who is working in claims. So we have
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property attorneys, personal injury attorneys,
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forensics companies, insurance companies, contractors.
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We have all sorts of customers that are taking
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a look at this product to see how it's going
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to help them manage their workflow. Okay, now
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before we talk about claim audit and everything
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that you have just mentioned Let me ask you that
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you are the co -founder of ink and you just mentioned
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that now it is developing into an enterprise
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enterprise solution, so What are the challenges
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that you feel ink will be facing because I still?
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See like before this interview. I was talking
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to some of the contractors and they still have
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that old mindset I would say that I can uh, have
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someone in house or, and I can like handle all
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of this by myself instead of having a software
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handling the insurance payments and the mortgage
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and everything for me. Sure. So everybody's welcome
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to run their business the way they like. I would
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say that the majority of folks these days are
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more apt to use technology to solve the problem.
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And statistically, the number of people who would
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rather pay for things electronically is certainly
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in the majority these days. So there's, there's
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going to be stragglers and eventually they'll,
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you know, grow out of it, as I say, because they're
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just going to end up ultimately retiring. And
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then the fresh faces are going to come into the
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industry. And I would say that most of the up
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and comers are technology forward. So. Okay.
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And you talk a lot about contractors' mats. You
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talk about like sales activities and non -sales
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activities. So what is contractors' mats to you?
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What does it mean? I'm sorry. Contractors. Maths,
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like I've seen you in the videos you were talking
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about, like there are non -sales activities and
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sales activities that roofing contractors are
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indulged in, but you need to focus to be focusing
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upon the sales activities that are in your business.
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That was like an old video that you had on YouTube,
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but are you familiar? Like, do you remember discussing
00:10:15.059 --> 00:10:17.279
all of that? It might've been a little while
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ago. I put out. numerous videos, but I don't
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recall that conversation. Okay. So I, you know,
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I think that contractors in particular are very
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proud of what they've built if they've, you know,
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been successful in growing a company. And sometimes
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when you do that, once you get to a certain point,
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you want to hang on to that success and it's
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difficult to change. Right. And contractors,
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sometimes once they have found something that
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works and works well, they stick with that and
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they don't change from that. And that's fine.
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You know, I'm not here to change anybody's business.
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I'm here to present opportunities that could
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help them manage their business more effectively.
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It could save them time. That's what I'm all
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about. I'm a process guy. I like solving problems.
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I like keeping things moving efficiently and
00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.620
effectively. And that's really the goal of bank,
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right? Because when you're dealing with a paper
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payment that needs to be managed and endorsed
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and verified by numerous parties, obviously,
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you know, the only ways that you can get that
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done are by physically taking that, you know,
00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:38.500
check around town or mailing it around. And that's
00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:41.100
all just an integrated process. And we think
00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:44.679
you can manage that process digitally. So again,
00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:47.960
it's really up to the folks that are using the
00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:50.779
platform and how they want to use it, but not
00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:54.259
every aspect of the ink platform needs to be
00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:56.799
used in your process. And so I feel like you
00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.980
have the option to kind of mold the way ink works
00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.320
around your current process and make the best
00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.740
of it. Right. But again, some contractors are
00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.659
old school, like you said, and they just don't
00:12:09.659 --> 00:12:11.500
want to change and they just want to keep doing
00:12:11.500 --> 00:12:15.779
things the way that they used to. So. Okay. And
00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:18.259
speaking of that, would you walk me through like
00:12:18.259 --> 00:12:21.159
what you are doing with the claim audits that
00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.700
you just mentioned with this new platform considering
00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:27.519
the fact that you mentioned that not every feature
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.399
that a platform has needs to be used in your
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.840
business or in your process. So what are you
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.580
exactly doing here and how it is going to help
00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:40.509
someone who is running a roofing company? So
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I would say that with, with Whammy, I'm not sure
00:12:44.049 --> 00:12:47.649
that Whammy is extremely applicable to a roofing
00:12:47.649 --> 00:12:50.570
company. Really it's more for analyzing policy
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documents, analyzing damage photographs, analyzing
00:12:55.009 --> 00:12:57.730
correspondence regarding the claim. And so keep
00:12:57.730 --> 00:13:00.889
in mind that our main customers over at Whammy
00:13:00.889 --> 00:13:05.769
are property attorneys. I'm sorry. Personal injury
00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:09.230
attorneys. These are defense firms that are representing.
00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:12.789
insurance, whenever they have a claim against
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their insurance company. And sometimes they have
00:13:15.169 --> 00:13:17.809
to, you know, take it to legal. Right. And then
00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.370
we also have the other side of the fence on the
00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:22.289
carrier side. There are, you know, defense attorneys
00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:25.090
and also insurance companies that are taking
00:13:25.090 --> 00:13:27.909
a look at the technology. But what whammy does
00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:31.330
is it will analyze all this information. It will
00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:35.100
analyze claim estimates. It'll analyze policy
00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:38.320
documents. It'll analyze photos. It'll analyze
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any correspondence that has been coming back
00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:43.200
and forth regarding the claim. It'll help you
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.919
prepare certain documents that are necessary
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.419
for the claim and the litigation. And it's really
00:13:49.419 --> 00:13:54.080
to make the legal process of battling that claim
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.340
from one side or the other to make that much
00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:00.740
more efficient and much, much faster. Some of
00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.820
the work that could take, you know, a person.
00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:07.299
Hours, tens of hours is now taking minutes in
00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.080
analyzing, you know, hundreds of documents. So
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.919
our system can do it in a very short period of
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time. So it's a huge time save and it's much
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.500
more accurate, obviously, because it's completely
00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:22.820
AI forward and making a lot less mistakes than
00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:26.500
what a human would whenever it's. Okay, and what
00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:29.519
brought you to AI? Like, I can assume that you
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:33.019
work with ink, you are tech savvy, you like working
00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.120
with tech products and introducing solutions
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.899
to the industry and working on upcoming technologies,
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.139
but do you really believe that, okay, I get this,
00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:48.879
that this will help, like, we can process documents
00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:51.139
way faster and it's going to help defense attorneys
00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.700
and everything. So, do you really believe that
00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:59.960
if we just put this up against a real human being
00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:04.820
or how the work is handled in real world, a software
00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:09.379
can still be competitive against real humans
00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:14.700
when we talk about real problems and the challenges
00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:21.019
that require physical presence? Yeah, so I've
00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:23.799
thought quite a bit about this from the perspective
00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.700
of several industries because AI is going to
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.220
change the way the world works. It's not going
00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:34.480
to entirely replace humans, but it is going to
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.940
enable them to achieve a lot more than what they
00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.600
could have without it. And so let's say you have
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.120
a, in the case of Whammy, let's say you have
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.960
a policy document that you need to read for an
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.279
insured. And let's say that policy document is
00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.769
a hundred pages. Now, you would have to go through
00:15:51.769 --> 00:15:54.470
and read 100 pages of this document in order
00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:57.850
to find certain provisions or certain exclusions
00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:01.730
or certain coverages regarding that policy to
00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:06.970
see how it applies to the particular claim. And
00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:10.370
for a human to read through 100 pages accurately
00:16:10.370 --> 00:16:13.830
of a policy document, you know, I can't imagine
00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:15.210
how long it's going to take, but it's probably
00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:18.240
going to take some time, at least a day. Right?
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.799
The whammy technology can read that policy in
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:24.820
its entirety in a matter of minutes, maybe less,
00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:27.360
it could be seconds. And the information that
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.519
it gathers and the way that it gathers that data
00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:34.460
indexes it and relays it back to the user. There's
00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:38.080
no way that a human could do that on their own.
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.179
And so to be able to do that and do that at scale
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:46.679
with hundreds, thousands of claims, you know,
00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:50.259
we're able to save law firms a tremendous amount
00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:52.299
of time. We're able to save forensics companies
00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:54.820
a tremendous amount of time, public adjusters,
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:59.340
basically anybody who needs to analyze these
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:03.100
matters and analyze the data, there's no way
00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:05.819
that they can do it better than the AI can. So
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.740
once that AI produces the result, it's always
00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:12.119
there for humans to review it. It's always there
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.240
for, you know, confirmation, but to be able to
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.500
extract that information, present it and have
00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.000
it checked to make sure it's accurate, which
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.700
in almost every case that it is, there's just
00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:27.140
no way that a human can do what the AI is doing.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.759
Okay. And when we talk about human versus AI,
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.380
you have been working with Ink and now you are
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.779
working with this platform. This is for defense
00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:40.119
attorneys and now I would say that you have sort
00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.700
of transitioned. But if we talk about roofing
00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.519
industry specifically, since our audience is
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.220
roofing contractors, you have been there, you
00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.900
have done that, like you have been part of this,
00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:57.339
all of these things for like last decade. Where
00:17:57.339 --> 00:18:00.200
do you feel that contractors, specifically if
00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.039
we talk about roofing contractors, they go wrong
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.519
with the understanding of data and metrics? But
00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.099
I feel, I will share my point of view with you
00:18:09.099 --> 00:18:11.980
as well, that I feel that we have become so obsessed
00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:15.720
with the collection of data and noticing different
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.140
metrics and mirroring and calculations, doing
00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:22.519
calculations on paper that we do not know which
00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.599
data is actually correct for us. And even if
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.240
you are using something like AI that has massive
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.900
capabilities, how we can actually analyze and
00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:35.420
feed that data and use that for our advantage.
00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:39.079
So is there anything that you feel contractors
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:43.059
do wrong and it can be corrected, whether it
00:18:43.059 --> 00:18:46.339
is their perspective or the use of data and the
00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:49.579
metrics overall? Well, I would say that the first
00:18:49.579 --> 00:18:53.019
thing that they do wrong is they have the mindset
00:18:53.019 --> 00:18:55.559
of this is, this is how we've always done it.
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.700
So the first thing is they have to be open to
00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:01.720
change and they have to want to improve the process
00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:05.059
if they are. Currently implementing an antiquated
00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:07.859
process or something that can be more effective
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.160
And so I'd say that's the first mistake that
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.039
they make is being set in their ways the second
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.680
and this is I would say this is probably an advantage
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.619
for a contractor But there's only so many things
00:19:20.619 --> 00:19:23.519
that you should be tracking when you are a contractor,
00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:25.420
right? There's not too many metrics that you
00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:28.539
need to pay attention to in order to be successful
00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:32.259
but certain things that maybe they're not thinking
00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:36.160
about, like how quickly they answer the phone.
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.200
I would say that the number one thing that contractors
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.420
are never great at is simply communicating and
00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:46.759
answering the phone. I can't tell you how many
00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.400
times I've heard stories of contractors losing
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.500
customers and it's just because they were non
00:19:53.500 --> 00:19:56.079
-responsive. Right. You even see people posting
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.680
about it online where they're getting calls and
00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.720
they're trying to catch up with 12 calls that
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.940
they got in that day because of, you know, a
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:05.279
storm that came through. And it's like, you know,
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.200
12 phone calls. It should be entirely manageable
00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.519
by a company who is coming out to build your
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.220
roof in my opinion. So there's, there's certain
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:17.460
things that they may not be thinking about that
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.819
are important that are going to make a world
00:20:19.819 --> 00:20:23.180
of difference. And. A contractor sometimes is
00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:25.240
going to think, well, why is me answering the
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.960
phone quickly? You got to make a world of difference.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.400
They don't realize that that's just how society
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.359
is these days. And they expect a quick turnaround,
00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:36.059
right? Everybody's living in an instant gratification
00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.099
mindset. And with that mindset comes certain
00:20:39.099 --> 00:20:42.480
expectations of, you know, who you're dealing
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.079
with and who you're working with. And it's for
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.240
a contractor. I mean, if you call a contractor,
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.240
ask a question or you want to ask them a question
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.410
or have them come out and help you out. If they
00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.809
don't call you back for hours, you know, how
00:20:54.809 --> 00:20:58.250
are you going to feel whenever they're doing
00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:00.190
your work? Are you going to feel comfortable
00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:01.789
with them doing your work? Are you going to trust
00:21:01.789 --> 00:21:04.730
them because they can't even call you back in
00:21:04.730 --> 00:21:07.690
a matter of hours? And that's the beginning of
00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.789
that interaction. So I would say that there,
00:21:10.990 --> 00:21:14.509
there are certain things that contractors, you
00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:17.430
know, look at and they're probably not. all the
00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.210
things that they should be looking at, but I
00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:22.250
don't think there are a lot overall. That's the
00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:24.869
good news. The good news is, is that for a contractor,
00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:26.910
you don't have, you know, a hundred different
00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:28.849
metrics you need to follow. You need to follow,
00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:32.089
you know, basically your, your customer service.
00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:36.009
You need to, uh, obviously keep an eye on your,
00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.809
your numbers, your net revenue and your, uh,
00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:42.750
your cost of goods. Right. So, so those are the
00:21:42.750 --> 00:21:45.769
primary things. And then, you know, When things
00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.190
go wrong, just fix it, right? Don't make excuses,
00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:52.609
just fix it. And that's really what makes a good
00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:55.089
contractor. One that answers their phone, gets
00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:58.289
the job done, makes sure they keep an eye on
00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:02.109
their numbers, and they just fix things when
00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:07.069
it happens, so. Okay. And I remember a book here
00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:10.009
from what you have said that there's a book named,
00:22:10.509 --> 00:22:13.430
Never Sweat the Small... Never sweat the small
00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:15.650
stuff. It's always in the small stuff. It's always
00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:17.809
in the small things that we ignore. There is
00:22:17.809 --> 00:22:19.990
an amazing book. If someone is listening to this,
00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:23.170
it's definitely a book that helps you focus on
00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:26.930
the smaller things. You have been with Ink, Ran,
00:22:27.809 --> 00:22:32.650
and I read your posts and I saw that you guys
00:22:32.650 --> 00:22:34.930
were dealing with loans as well. Like you were
00:22:34.930 --> 00:22:37.569
providing contractors with loans. If I am not
00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.450
wrong here, since you were with Ink and you were
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.559
looking over all these payments and how things
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.079
are being done. Are there any things that you
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.480
feel a contractors do wrong with their finances?
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.799
And I'm not talking about the contractors who
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.980
have been into this industry for decades. I personally
00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:59.599
know three to five business business started
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.940
in like twenty twenty four roofing businesses
00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:04.980
and now they are not in the industry anymore.
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:08.559
They just collapsed because they couldn't handle
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.240
the cash flow or they didn't have, they didn't
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.660
plan anything. So you have been here, you know
00:23:14.660 --> 00:23:17.579
that how insurance company pays you, how you
00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.019
have to plan out the materials and how you have
00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:22.980
to do all these things. Are there anything that
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.599
you can tell these contractors from your experience
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:29.400
that if you are starting out, then these are
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:32.579
the things that you need to be looking for? That's
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.380
a great question. So I would say first and foremost,
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.059
contractors need to have reserves, especially
00:23:40.059 --> 00:23:43.039
if you're working in the insurance space because
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.980
you're going to have to float funds. You're going
00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:47.680
to have to cover expenses while money is coming
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.279
in. And it's just the nature of insurance claims.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.099
So whenever a claim is approved, let's say it's
00:23:55.099 --> 00:23:57.519
a roof claim, the insurance company is always
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.279
going to pay out what's called the ACB payment
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.480
related to the policy. And that's the actual
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.950
cash value payment. So it's typically never the
00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:07.569
total amount of what the roof is going to cost
00:24:07.569 --> 00:24:11.269
to replace. And so, you know, as a contractor,
00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:13.950
you're typically getting that job started with
00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:15.509
that check and maybe you're going to collect
00:24:15.509 --> 00:24:18.849
the deductible check from the insurer. But in
00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:20.910
order to receive the rest of the money, you need
00:24:20.910 --> 00:24:23.529
to complete that job. And once that job is complete,
00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:25.470
you've got to pay your crews, you've got to pay
00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:27.910
your materials, you've got to pay expenses to
00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:31.410
keep the lights on. And so all these things need
00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:35.160
to be taken care of in a timely manner, but you
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.380
may not receive that back end money for another
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.400
month or two from the insurance company. So unless
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.539
you have a very strict accounts receivable process
00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:49.099
and perhaps a protocol where you are collecting
00:24:49.099 --> 00:24:51.039
payment from the insured, regardless of what
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.039
the insurance company is doing, you're going
00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.339
to have cashflow issues. And so if you're running
00:24:57.339 --> 00:24:59.279
your business just based on how the insurance
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.130
company is paying, you have to be prepared. For
00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:06.549
I would say at least at least three to six months
00:25:06.549 --> 00:25:09.769
of just runway to make sure that you have enough
00:25:09.769 --> 00:25:12.089
to pay the bills and cover everything and grow
00:25:12.089 --> 00:25:13.990
the business while you're waiting for money to
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:16.509
come in. So that's one of the biggest challenges.
00:25:16.769 --> 00:25:20.730
I think that a contractor see is that or that
00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:23.349
they encounter is that they, they do not manage
00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:25.930
their money appropriately. And you know, as soon
00:25:25.930 --> 00:25:28.710
as it comes in, it's right out the door. You
00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:30.569
certainly cannot do that in insurance claims.
00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:34.069
He really cannot do that, especially after let's
00:25:34.069 --> 00:25:36.730
say a catastrophic catastrophic event where,
00:25:36.730 --> 00:25:39.490
you know, a hurricane comes in and you're probably
00:25:39.490 --> 00:25:42.690
writing 10 times the number of contracts. So
00:25:42.690 --> 00:25:44.390
you would write in a normal year and you're doing
00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:48.710
that perhaps in a month, you know, you financially
00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:50.049
are probably not going to be able to support
00:25:50.049 --> 00:25:55.930
that venture. So, okay. And so I, no, I was just
00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:58.960
going to say, so managing, Uh, managing your
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.559
finances, I think is the number one thing that
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.500
contractors need to plan for if they're going
00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:05.440
to be serious about growing any sort of business
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.019
in the industry. Okay. Do companies file more
00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:13.359
claims that they can handle as well? Sure. It
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.500
happens all the time, especially after a hurricane.
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:19.220
I've, you know, seen a lot of companies, especially
00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:21.680
here in Florida, they come from out of state
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.000
and they see an opportunity of all this work.
00:26:25.180 --> 00:26:28.460
Right. And what happens is. They write all these
00:26:28.460 --> 00:26:33.299
contracts. They sign people up. And then as those
00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:36.019
claims start becoming approved by the insurance
00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:39.279
companies, you know, they are, they're obviously
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.819
not all approved at once. All that money does
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.119
not come at once. And what ends up, what ends
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:49.460
up happening is the contract start the work on
00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:52.920
those initial jobs. And then as more money is
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.619
coming in from. additional jobs, they're trying
00:26:56.619 --> 00:26:59.920
to pay off the first round of jobs with the money
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:02.880
that's coming in and they very quickly get overwhelmed
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.720
and consumed by their receivables and their payables.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:07.900
And what ends up happening is they go under because
00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:10.140
they don't have enough money then to complete
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:13.680
the work or get any new jobs started. So you
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.880
may think that it's a great idea to go out and
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.480
write all this business, but if you financially
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.440
cannot support it, then you're not going to make
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.460
it through. You started Inc in 2017. If we go
00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:29.500
back to when you were co -founding this or when
00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:34.460
you had this idea in your mind, do you believe
00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:37.779
that the industry or the processes have changed
00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:41.319
now with the introduction of tech? And what was
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:45.319
in your mind when you started Inc and what was
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:49.519
your... condition mentally when you were now
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:52.579
getting separated from it or just taking like
00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:57.440
a different path. So when we first started talking
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.420
about the idea of ink, to me, it was ridiculous
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.160
that these property claims were being paid on
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.460
a paper check because even back then in 2016,
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.319
we had plenty of payments platforms, you know,
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.960
Venmo is around PayPal. um, plenty of ways to
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.039
send money electronically. And I thought, well,
00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:18.279
this is such an important matter for people.
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.960
Why are we still doing it by check? So those
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.160
were the first thoughts in my head. And after
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.059
we did some research, we found that there were
00:28:28.059 --> 00:28:32.599
no other solutions out there to manage this process.
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.480
And so it became kind of an obsession of ours.
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.680
Well, if it, if, if there's nothing out there
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.819
that exists, we have to fix this. We have to
00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:43.410
get it done. I can tell you that over the years,
00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:46.410
certainly, you know, this was my first major
00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:49.809
entrepreneurial journey. I've kind of been entrepreneurial
00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:52.309
all my life, but this was my largest venture
00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:57.230
to date. And I've learned quite a bit about technology,
00:28:57.869 --> 00:29:01.250
business in general, raising capital. And I will
00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:07.019
say that my view on, on everything to solve at
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:09.359
large with ink. We always knew that it was going
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.019
to be challenging. We always knew it was going
00:29:11.019 --> 00:29:13.819
to take some time. But I can tell you that technology
00:29:13.819 --> 00:29:17.380
always takes longer than you think until now.
00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:20.420
I think until AI has been brought into the fold,
00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.119
technology prior to that always takes longer
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.480
than you expect. And it's extremely difficult
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:31.920
because we had to prove concept. in many ways,
00:29:32.059 --> 00:29:33.960
you know, first you're proving that there's a
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:35.900
need in the marketplace, right? And then you
00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:39.759
have to prove that there's a larger market than
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:43.700
just where you are proving the model initially.
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.460
And then you have to, as we're doing now, you
00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.579
have to have enterprise adoption. And so out
00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:51.960
of these many levels of growth and different
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.250
phases and fundraising and Everything that you
00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:58.230
go through in this journey. It's it's very much
00:29:58.230 --> 00:30:00.470
different even even with how you're operating
00:30:00.470 --> 00:30:02.950
the business based on where you're at in fundraising,
00:30:03.089 --> 00:30:08.869
so It's it's a lot to navigate. It's a it's It's
00:30:08.869 --> 00:30:12.630
certainly not easy. It's Not not for the fate
00:30:12.630 --> 00:30:15.170
of hard to grow business like this. I mean, it's
00:30:15.170 --> 00:30:19.720
a it's quite a roller coaster but I think as
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.140
long as you have the right team, as long as you
00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:25.619
just don't give up and as long as you're constantly
00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:28.180
innovating and thinking of ways to make everything
00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:31.299
better, whether it's the platform, the process,
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.440
you know, how you're working with your customers,
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.160
how you're out there marketing, you know, your
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.160
messaging, just everything. There's so much that
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.519
goes into growing a business like this that it's,
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.420
after you go through it, it's almost like, you
00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:49.859
know, wouldn't When I think about would I do
00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:55.119
it again probably not, you know It's you know,
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.660
that's the only way to describe it, you know,
00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:02.059
I would I would I I Don't know when I give up
00:31:02.059 --> 00:31:04.480
the experience absolutely not it's been one of
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.339
the greatest experiences of my life and And probably
00:31:07.339 --> 00:31:09.960
always will be but would I do it again had I
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:12.119
known what I know now? Probably not. I probably
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:15.269
would have done something different And maybe
00:31:15.269 --> 00:31:17.410
not tried to create a payments company that didn't
00:31:17.410 --> 00:31:19.390
exist. And I, you know, I think about that a
00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:22.369
lot. It's like, do you want to, do you want to
00:31:22.369 --> 00:31:26.789
continue in that realm of technology, especially
00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:29.829
with how things are advancing and, you know,
00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:32.730
dealing with the startup trials and tribulations?
00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:35.809
I mean, at any moment, you know, you can be put
00:31:35.809 --> 00:31:38.190
out of business at any moment. You could have
00:31:38.190 --> 00:31:40.210
somebody come along, competition come along and
00:31:40.210 --> 00:31:42.269
just squash you. I mean, there's so many things
00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:45.680
that can happen. that, you know, that are on
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.859
the back of your mind and it's, it's very, uh,
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.880
it's very, it's very, uh, testing. We'll say
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.339
that, but, uh, knowing what I know now, I can
00:31:58.339 --> 00:32:00.339
tell you that the experience has certainly prepared
00:32:00.339 --> 00:32:03.640
me for nearly anything else that I want to, that
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.960
I want to take on. So, um, I'm very grateful,
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.339
you know, for everything I've learned. I'm very
00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:12.240
grateful for all the people that I've met. Very
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.619
grateful for everyone that believes in the company
00:32:14.619 --> 00:32:17.480
and everybody that supported the growth of the
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:20.680
company and everybody who is part of the team.
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.240
Now it just, it takes an army, right? It's, it's
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.980
just not easy. And so having done it in the environments
00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:30.799
that we did, I mean, we went through COVID, we
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.980
were raising money in the most difficult fundraising
00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:38.539
environment ever. And we still made it through.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.859
I mean, We overcame some extraordinary challenges
00:32:41.859 --> 00:32:44.960
and we press on and I think it's not just because
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.099
of our perseverance, but because the industry
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:52.119
demands a solution. You know, it's, it's, it's
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.380
a royal pain trying to get these payments taken
00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.299
care of. And if we can solve for this massive
00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:01.140
headache that affects so many different stakeholders,
00:33:01.460 --> 00:33:04.279
then the world's going to be a much better place.
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.059
So. We're going to get it there. It's just a
00:33:07.059 --> 00:33:09.039
much longer journey than we had anticipated.
00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:13.500
I'm going to come back to this at the end of
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:17.059
this interview that this is a kind of a life
00:33:17.059 --> 00:33:20.240
question that rather than you do all the things
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.220
and then you have achieved everything, your perspective
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:26.740
change, changes about the journey that you had.
00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:29.380
I'm going to discuss that at the end. But for
00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:32.180
now, you just mentioned that it was challenging
00:33:32.180 --> 00:33:35.859
and I know as well that creating demand is something
00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:38.079
you were out there you were creating demand I
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.680
would say for something that was not even in
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.799
the minds of people like they they didn't even
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.680
think that this this is something they should
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.420
be having so when you were out there building
00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:54.140
demand for this or just selling your idea what
00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.960
are the things that you faced because there were
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.619
so many things going on with ink like people
00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:02.660
are scanning checks homeowners are signing the
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.819
checks or doing approving payments or stuff like
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:07.859
that. Then there are mortgage companies out there.
00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:10.519
You are dealing with insurance. So like you are
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.000
dealing with a lot of different avenues, I would
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.860
say. How did you manage to build trust with each
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:20.519
of them? So I would say that a lot of our traction
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.280
early on came from people that we knew that Ken
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:26.960
and I knew. So Ken Lawyers, our other co -founder
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.659
at Inc. He was and still is a public adjuster
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:33.619
in the industry. We used to work together on
00:34:33.619 --> 00:34:36.239
claims here and there and Ken had a lot of great
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.400
relationships in the industry that we were able
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.800
to capitalize on. And so kind of getting, getting
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.579
trust from people that you knew was a good start,
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.360
but getting out there, I think it wasn't until
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.820
2018, believe it or not. So the first months
00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:56.199
of January, 2018, we went to our very first industry
00:34:56.199 --> 00:35:00.619
event. And we went to the wind conference in
00:35:00.619 --> 00:35:04.099
Orlando, really looking for just feedback. We
00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:06.500
wanted to find out what the insurance industry
00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:10.099
thought of this potential solution. And I remember
00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:14.320
going to that first event thinking this is exciting
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.860
because we're going to find out now whether or
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:20.940
not this is a viable thing to pursue. And we
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:24.179
came out of that conference with. a bunch of
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:25.880
companies that were interested in actually using
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:28.699
the product. So that was exciting. And then the
00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:32.519
very next conference that we went to was the
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:35.840
International Roofing Expo. And that was way
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:37.639
different than the WINT conference. It was much
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:41.380
larger, a lot of contractors. And we went there
00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.179
expecting to get a whole bunch of customers.
00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:48.219
And we did get quite a few leads. But really
00:35:48.219 --> 00:35:51.300
what we came out of that with was partnership
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.119
interests and a lot of other companies in the
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.619
space who were excited about what we were solving.
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.699
They said, you guys are the missing link as to
00:35:58.699 --> 00:36:01.280
what a lot of folks in our industry need right
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.079
now. And that kind of gave us additional momentum
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.539
to say, okay, this is, this is the real thing.
00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:08.920
We, we need to make this happen and just getting
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.980
that validation from the industry is what continued
00:36:11.980 --> 00:36:15.840
to propel us. So I think going out there, getting
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.739
feedback from your potential customers, your
00:36:18.739 --> 00:36:23.559
potential partners. All that was a catalyst to
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:25.800
our growth in the beginning, just validation
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.559
from others and then showing them, here's, here's
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.679
what we're planning to build. Here's how it's
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.280
going to work. But, you know, it was amazing.
00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:38.840
I mean, Ken and I raised money nearly, uh, you
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:42.099
know, almost, almost $900 ,000. Ken says a piece
00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:44.159
of paper. It was a little more than that, but
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.099
it was, uh, not compared to how, how everybody's
00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:50.469
raising money today with. pitch decks and things
00:36:50.469 --> 00:36:52.130
like that. I mean, this was like a traditional
00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:54.670
business plan, an old school business plan. And,
00:36:54.670 --> 00:36:58.170
uh, you know, we, we were still able to get the
00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.730
support because people believed in what we were
00:37:00.730 --> 00:37:02.650
solving for. It was that, that big of a problem.
00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:07.349
So we just kept at it. Okay. And Inc was your
00:37:07.349 --> 00:37:11.369
first major entrepreneurial achievement, I would
00:37:11.369 --> 00:37:14.349
say. So what are the things that you feel if
00:37:14.349 --> 00:37:16.869
you look back now that, or the mistakes that
00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:20.809
you learned from Inc? that you don't want to
00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:24.170
apply in this journey that you are just beginning
00:37:24.170 --> 00:37:30.250
right now. A mistake? Well, it's, you know, it's,
00:37:30.250 --> 00:37:34.670
it's hard to say what mistakes we made at Ink
00:37:34.670 --> 00:37:38.550
because it was a learning journey and you can't
00:37:38.550 --> 00:37:41.610
learn without making mistakes. So Ken has another
00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:43.610
saying, you know, you don't know what you don't
00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:48.940
know. We, we only were able to progress with
00:37:48.940 --> 00:37:53.300
what we knew about the solution, what we knew
00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:57.760
about business, what we knew about just the industry
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.679
in general. And we learned basically along the
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.719
way. So do we make mistakes? Sure. Could I have
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.420
done things differently? Could we have done things
00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.380
differently as an organization? Absolutely. But
00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:12.300
were they mistakes? I wouldn't say there were
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:15.019
mistakes. I think they were just. You know things
00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.420
that we learned from and that's that's the way
00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:21.179
every successful person grows and and actually
00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:23.679
become successful is they learn to deal with
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.739
The mistakes they learn to fail and just get
00:38:27.739 --> 00:38:29.519
back on the horse and that's what we did. So
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.340
we we certainly Had challenges over the years.
00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:35.440
We certainly could have done things better. We
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:39.179
certainly Probably could have gotten you know
00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:42.059
places faster, but it's just how the business
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:45.530
group, you know grew It grew because of what
00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:48.210
we knew, how we knew to do it. And of course
00:38:48.210 --> 00:38:50.969
we've gotten much better over the years, you
00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:54.869
know, to have gone from not knowing anything,
00:38:54.909 --> 00:38:58.809
just an idea on literally a napkin about, you
00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:02.510
know, how do we solve this problem? And the,
00:39:02.510 --> 00:39:04.670
the goal was, let's just get rid of the check.
00:39:05.269 --> 00:39:07.309
We had no idea how we were going to do it, you
00:39:07.309 --> 00:39:09.349
know, but that was, that was the goal. Let's
00:39:09.349 --> 00:39:11.789
just get rid of the check. That's what we decided
00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:15.099
that. that day that Ken and I first discussed
00:39:15.099 --> 00:39:17.539
the concept of eight. It was Sunday, September
00:39:17.539 --> 00:39:20.500
11th, 2016. And I could tell you where we were.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.340
We were at Miller's Ale House in South side of
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:25.800
Jacksonville, Florida. And we were watching a
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.940
football game during a beer. And it was the first
00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.519
time we discussed it. And that's all we knew
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.500
was this is a problem. And we think the ultimate
00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:36.539
goal is to just eliminate the check. We didn't
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:38.760
know how we were going to get there. We didn't
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.599
know what we were going to build. That's all
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.699
we knew and we were able to, you know, utilize
00:39:45.699 --> 00:39:48.980
our contacts. We were able to do to utilize our
00:39:48.980 --> 00:39:51.599
prior experience. Ken's obviously in the insurance
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.659
space. You know, I started learning. Contracting
00:39:55.659 --> 00:39:57.679
and the roofing industry and property claims.
00:39:57.699 --> 00:40:00.820
And I had a background in the mortgage industry
00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:03.880
as well. So it kind of all came together with
00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.559
that. We went out and, you know, reached out
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.719
to some of my Some of my friends and very good
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.699
friend of mine, Brian Watson, who I've known
00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:15.619
since I was 15 and he was a lot more familiar
00:40:15.619 --> 00:40:18.059
with tech than I was. And he was able to come
00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:21.219
on and help us, you know, build out the website
00:40:21.219 --> 00:40:24.420
and start building the first iterations of our
00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:28.539
platform. So that's, that's just kind of how
00:40:28.539 --> 00:40:31.559
we started and we've all grown since then. I
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.340
mean, we're able to come from that to. You know,
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.039
as I've moved on to this new venture with way,
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:41.239
I mean, you know, in, in a month was able to
00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:44.380
kind of come up with new processes and things
00:40:44.380 --> 00:40:47.920
that we can execute on from a customer success
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.000
perspective. And, you know, how we can scale
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:52.800
up, you know, the experience for everybody. I
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.539
mean, everything that I'm implementing at way,
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:57.739
I had no idea about, I didn't know any of this
00:40:57.739 --> 00:41:01.239
when we started Nick. So. You know, it's been
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:03.480
quite a learning experience and I'm very grateful
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:06.010
for it. regardless of anything that happened,
00:41:06.329 --> 00:41:08.369
you know, how, how we grew it, you know, any
00:41:08.369 --> 00:41:10.630
mistakes, anything like that. I don't consider
00:41:10.630 --> 00:41:13.269
it mistakes. I consider it a learning experience
00:41:13.269 --> 00:41:16.869
for sure. I just have two or three more questions
00:41:16.869 --> 00:41:19.070
for you. And the first one is that you have been
00:41:19.070 --> 00:41:24.090
a speaker at WTS in the storm conference in 2024.
00:41:24.130 --> 00:41:28.349
And if I'm not wrong in 2025 as well, if you
00:41:28.349 --> 00:41:31.349
can correct me here, if I'm wrong, I meet contractors
00:41:31.349 --> 00:41:35.369
that There is a group of contractors that say
00:41:35.369 --> 00:41:39.909
that these conferences are beneficial to the
00:41:39.909 --> 00:41:42.630
industry. And then there are also some group
00:41:42.630 --> 00:41:46.090
of contractors. They say that these are just
00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:50.989
a way to promote products or talk about or brag
00:41:50.989 --> 00:41:54.750
about achievements of people and nothing much
00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:58.559
beneficial for the contractors or for the roofers
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.260
who are in there to learn something. The question
00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:04.039
I have for you here is that you have been a speaker
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:08.139
at WTS and I have had Chelsea Fover on my podcast
00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:11.760
as well. She had been on WTS. I had Lisa Simaroli.
00:42:12.019 --> 00:42:15.699
All of you guys have been speaking at these conferences,
00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:19.019
but I never had a chance to ask someone. So now
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:22.139
I am asking you, what do you feel are the good
00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.360
side? So first of all, say that Anyone's opinion
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:32.539
on a conference or any other educational or just
00:42:32.539 --> 00:42:35.079
anything, right? Anybody's opinion on anything
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:39.119
is a reflection of how it's received by them.
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.159
You're going to get out of it what you want.
00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:45.539
And if somebody goes to an event and they don't
00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:48.980
get anything out of it, I mean, what were they
00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:52.360
doing at the event in the first place? Or, you
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:57.809
know, what was, what was their game plan? I think
00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:01.809
some of the frustration that people have with
00:43:01.809 --> 00:43:05.349
events sometimes comes from the vendor side because
00:43:05.349 --> 00:43:08.110
it doesn't have the attendance that they expected.
00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:11.090
So everybody puts money up as a vendor, they
00:43:11.090 --> 00:43:13.690
go to these events and then if they don't get
00:43:13.690 --> 00:43:16.510
the ROI out of the event, they obviously hear
00:43:16.510 --> 00:43:19.809
their frustrations and those mumblings happen.
00:43:20.269 --> 00:43:26.550
But in any event, It was a slow event. We would
00:43:26.550 --> 00:43:29.570
find ways to get value out of that event, whether
00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:32.889
it was shooting content or talking to partners,
00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:35.210
talking to customers, doing anything that you
00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:37.829
can to make the experience the best. That's what
00:43:37.829 --> 00:43:39.449
you're going to get out of it, right? You're
00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:42.670
going to get out what you take out of it. And
00:43:42.670 --> 00:43:44.369
if you don't take anything out of it, then of
00:43:44.369 --> 00:43:46.010
course you're just going to say it wasn't worth
00:43:46.010 --> 00:43:48.369
anything, but that doesn't mean. That it's not
00:43:48.369 --> 00:43:50.309
worth something to somebody else. So that that's
00:43:50.309 --> 00:43:52.389
the first thing I'll say. I have no opinion one
00:43:52.389 --> 00:43:54.869
way or another events are they're what you make
00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:59.969
of it. So I would say that if there's anything
00:43:59.969 --> 00:44:02.949
negative about the events, it's, it's just that
00:44:02.949 --> 00:44:05.650
it's the mindset. It's, you know, new showing,
00:44:05.929 --> 00:44:07.550
showing up, you know, thinking you're not going
00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.510
to get anything out of it. You're probably not.
00:44:09.610 --> 00:44:11.789
If you have that mindset, you're already, you're
00:44:11.789 --> 00:44:13.449
already setting yourself up for failure. If you
00:44:13.449 --> 00:44:17.210
go in thinking, okay, well, let's make the most
00:44:17.210 --> 00:44:20.050
of this. And even if I only talk to a handful
00:44:20.050 --> 00:44:23.530
of potential customers, I was still able to,
00:44:23.530 --> 00:44:26.210
you know, talk to somebody about a potential
00:44:26.210 --> 00:44:30.489
partnership, or I was still, still able to shoot
00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:33.349
some content. I was able to get some feedback
00:44:33.349 --> 00:44:36.050
from existing customers. You know, there's many
00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:39.489
things that a conference like that can produce,
00:44:39.489 --> 00:44:42.690
but it's, it all comes down to what you're willing
00:44:42.690 --> 00:44:46.369
to attempt to get out of it yourself. And if
00:44:46.369 --> 00:44:49.949
it wasn't the best event for you, then that's
00:44:49.949 --> 00:44:53.190
fine. I mean, everybody has their preferences
00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:57.210
of, of how they like to get knowledge. Everybody,
00:44:57.210 --> 00:45:00.050
you know, has their preferences of how they want
00:45:00.050 --> 00:45:03.210
to go out and get partnerships or potential customers.
00:45:03.829 --> 00:45:07.050
And are there better ways to acquire customers?
00:45:07.389 --> 00:45:09.949
Sure. There could be. And then there's, you know,
00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:12.070
sometimes events are the best way to acquire
00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:14.829
customers just depends on. you know, what it
00:45:14.829 --> 00:45:17.730
is that you are trying to get the word out about
00:45:17.730 --> 00:45:20.090
and what your business does and, you know, how
00:45:20.090 --> 00:45:22.409
you approach it. So again, it all comes down
00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.469
to what you are actively trying to get out of
00:45:25.469 --> 00:45:27.969
that event and how you approach that. That makes
00:45:27.969 --> 00:45:31.289
it a success, not the event itself. Okay. Okay.
00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:34.070
So now we are at the end and let's, let's talk
00:45:34.070 --> 00:45:37.050
about life for a moment because you have been
00:45:37.050 --> 00:45:40.150
there. You have done that. You are sort of like,
00:45:40.539 --> 00:45:45.039
You have achieved success and everyone has a
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:47.260
different definition of success. Earlier in the
00:45:47.260 --> 00:45:50.199
interview, you mentioned that if you had a chance
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:52.860
to do all of it again, you wouldn't do that.
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:56.980
And I think so you were being sarcastic there
00:45:56.980 --> 00:46:02.199
or funny. But let me ask you that you have achieved
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:07.570
a landmark, I would say. You didn't plan it like
00:46:07.570 --> 00:46:11.230
in September 11 when you were sitting down with
00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:14.869
Ken, you had this idea and everything was in
00:46:14.869 --> 00:46:18.250
your mind. But now 10 years or 11 years later,
00:46:18.650 --> 00:46:21.150
you are sitting down. Everything has been achieved.
00:46:21.829 --> 00:46:27.090
Everything is done now. Have you changed the
00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:31.329
view or has this journey changed your view of
00:46:31.329 --> 00:46:34.980
life and success? And is there any part of you
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:39.780
that you feel has something that still needs
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:42.619
to be accomplished, but these things can't do
00:46:42.619 --> 00:46:46.480
that? So first I'll say, I don't, I don't consider
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.340
myself done. I think there's no such thing as
00:46:49.340 --> 00:46:52.079
done. I think it's life is constant growth. People
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:53.539
have asked me before, you know, what are you
00:46:53.539 --> 00:46:55.960
going to do when you retire? I'll never retire.
00:46:56.059 --> 00:46:58.400
I don't think I, you know, I'm always going to
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:02.210
be involved in something. trying to make an impact.
00:47:02.489 --> 00:47:05.849
I think that, you know, one thing that everybody
00:47:05.849 --> 00:47:11.730
learns in life is that success is certainly subjective.
00:47:11.730 --> 00:47:14.730
And I think a lot of people's definitions of
00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:17.949
success early on in life are much different than
00:47:17.949 --> 00:47:22.130
what they realize true success is. You know,
00:47:22.130 --> 00:47:25.429
I think my definition of success 10 years ago
00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:28.489
is different than my definition of success now.
00:47:29.010 --> 00:47:32.269
And ironically, I think the perception of, you
00:47:32.269 --> 00:47:35.269
know, what people have of me or what we've accomplished
00:47:35.269 --> 00:47:38.150
at Inc. You know, of being successful is different
00:47:38.150 --> 00:47:41.010
than what I think even. But I just, you know,
00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:43.090
I'm going to keep going no matter what. I'm going
00:47:43.090 --> 00:47:46.349
to continue innovating. I think if you're an
00:47:46.349 --> 00:47:48.630
entrepreneur at heart and you have that mindset,
00:47:49.010 --> 00:47:52.889
you can't. shut it off and you can't stop thinking
00:47:52.889 --> 00:47:55.210
and seeking opportunity, thinking about opportunity
00:47:55.210 --> 00:47:57.829
or seeking opportunity. And for me, I'm always
00:47:57.829 --> 00:48:00.190
trying to, you know, solve problems. I'm always
00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:02.829
trying to think of better ways of doing things.
00:48:02.849 --> 00:48:05.329
I'm always trying to improve certain things.
00:48:05.349 --> 00:48:09.329
And so I'll never stop doing that. So for me,
00:48:09.369 --> 00:48:13.469
you know, success is, is, is the journey it's
00:48:13.469 --> 00:48:17.789
being, it's being on that constant path of growth
00:48:17.789 --> 00:48:21.539
and There is no done. There's no end. There's
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:25.019
no finish line. And regardless of anything that
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:29.719
I'm doing in life, whether it's working at a
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:35.619
startup or advising companies on how to grow
00:48:35.619 --> 00:48:40.039
or anything like that, there's always going to
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.760
be an opportunity. There's always going to be
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:44.880
room for growth. There's always going to be a
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:49.179
situation where I can improve and That's just
00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:51.780
how I'm always going to live my life. I'm never
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:55.679
going to think of it as I'm done. I finished.
00:48:56.539 --> 00:49:01.559
But that's what I've learned is your internal
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.820
definition of success is going to change as you're
00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:09.500
achieving it. And even when other people are
00:49:09.500 --> 00:49:11.780
telling you that you've achieved that success,
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.500
for me personally, I don't feel that I have.
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:20.170
I don't feel like it's a It's an end goal. I
00:49:20.170 --> 00:49:22.469
feel like it's just a journey at this point.
00:49:22.989 --> 00:49:26.409
You're right. And here is an analogy that I use
00:49:26.409 --> 00:49:29.309
that success is just like climbing a mountain
00:49:29.309 --> 00:49:34.269
that if you and I, if I am like trying to climb
00:49:34.269 --> 00:49:37.889
a mountain, but you are already at its peak and
00:49:37.889 --> 00:49:40.730
you have achieved that feeling. Now you are telling
00:49:40.730 --> 00:49:43.889
me that Muhammad don't come here. Like if you
00:49:43.929 --> 00:49:47.329
You want to, you can, but don't spend your entire
00:49:47.329 --> 00:49:50.789
life chasing this dream. It's not that much worth
00:49:50.789 --> 00:49:53.969
it than having a family or doing stuff like that.
00:49:54.050 --> 00:49:56.429
But I won't believe you because I am thinking
00:49:56.429 --> 00:50:00.530
that Ryan is just trying to be the solo guy who
00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:03.230
is at the peak and he doesn't want to see me
00:50:03.230 --> 00:50:05.630
succeeding. And the reason I'm bringing this
00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:08.170
up is because you have so many guys coming to
00:50:08.170 --> 00:50:10.909
you. because now you are at a position like this,
00:50:11.130 --> 00:50:13.829
they come to you for advice, I am assuming, and
00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:16.730
they ask you about growth, they ask you about
00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:19.010
operating the company and stuff like that. But
00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:22.989
I see, and of course you see this as people achieve
00:50:22.989 --> 00:50:26.010
so many things in their life, yet they are lonely,
00:50:26.329 --> 00:50:29.469
yet... They don't live a life that they assumed
00:50:29.469 --> 00:50:33.150
they would be living once this XYZ goal has been
00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:36.530
achieved. So if someone asks you today, not about
00:50:36.530 --> 00:50:38.829
growing a business, but about living a life,
00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:42.829
what would be the experience or the advice you
00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:45.510
would share with them? I know it's cliche to
00:50:45.510 --> 00:50:48.369
say it, but it's the little things in life that,
00:50:48.869 --> 00:50:51.130
that bring the happiness. You know, if you want
00:50:51.130 --> 00:50:54.510
to achieve success financially in life, certainly,
00:50:54.630 --> 00:50:58.349
you know, Money helps makes things easier. But
00:50:58.349 --> 00:51:00.389
at the end of the day, it really comes down to
00:51:00.389 --> 00:51:04.210
friends, family, and ensuring that time together
00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:06.989
and experiences. And I can tell you because,
00:51:06.989 --> 00:51:09.989
you know, I mean, I've, I've gone through a lot
00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:13.610
of challenges in, in life and in business and
00:51:13.610 --> 00:51:16.849
certainly with my health, you know, I'm, I, I've
00:51:16.849 --> 00:51:19.730
stage five kidney disease. So, you know, I'm
00:51:19.730 --> 00:51:23.719
on dialysis and, you know, when you are facing
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.260
a life -threatening health issue. I think that's
00:51:27.260 --> 00:51:29.800
also something that helps your, or not help,
00:51:30.340 --> 00:51:32.019
but something that changes your perspective as
00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:35.159
to what's really important in life. So I think
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:39.260
having gone through the culmination of building
00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:43.460
and having that success and just growing in business
00:51:43.460 --> 00:51:47.000
and having all the trials and tribulations, the
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.159
ups and downs, and then also throwing on top
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:53.519
everything else in life that can occur. you know,
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:58.780
world events and, you know, health issues. I
00:51:58.780 --> 00:52:01.059
mean, after all these things start occurring
00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:04.260
to you or happening to you, you realize that
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:06.659
it truly is the simple things, the little things
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:10.239
in life that bring joy and happiness. And so,
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:14.840
you know, everything that I'm doing, it's really
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.900
a learning experience that I'm going to be able
00:52:16.900 --> 00:52:20.539
to pass along and share with others. And at the
00:52:20.539 --> 00:52:22.059
end of the day, you can't take anything with
00:52:22.059 --> 00:52:25.300
you. So hopefully I'm able to make an impact
00:52:25.300 --> 00:52:27.559
while I'm here and I can, you know, help others
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:29.659
to do the same. And that's, that's what life
00:52:29.659 --> 00:52:31.880
is all about. You know, I, I've always wanted
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.599
to live a life where I can be impactful and I
00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:38.119
can help others. And ink is it, and if whammy
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.960
is it, and anything else that I'm doing is, is
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:43.420
able to accomplish that where people can live
00:52:43.420 --> 00:52:46.159
an easier life or people can grow. And, uh, I
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.960
can help people understand that this is where
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.320
you're going to find your internal success. Then
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:55.570
to me that. That's the success. That's the journey.
00:52:55.789 --> 00:52:58.789
That's the accomplishment for me in life. Okay.
00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:01.110
Thank you for sharing that. My last question
00:53:01.110 --> 00:53:04.909
to you, Rayan, is that so many young dudes nowadays,
00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:07.869
they follow influencers on the internet. And
00:53:07.869 --> 00:53:10.130
this is a life question, not a roofing question,
00:53:10.130 --> 00:53:14.070
I would say. And everyone tells you to get obsessed
00:53:14.070 --> 00:53:18.530
with work. I highly appreciate those guys. You
00:53:18.530 --> 00:53:21.550
and I, we do work as well. But what I believe
00:53:21.550 --> 00:53:24.889
is that you shouldn't tie your identity solely
00:53:24.889 --> 00:53:28.010
to the work that you do in your life. It should
00:53:28.010 --> 00:53:32.869
have other small things that you can just enjoy
00:53:32.869 --> 00:53:36.349
as well. But there are two groups of people that
00:53:36.349 --> 00:53:40.590
in my experience I see in the world. One are
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.980
the people who have this thing engraved in their
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:46.800
souls like they can't live without work or they
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.840
are just made for work that's fine with them.
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:52.460
The other group they are the people who want
00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:55.099
to achieve something and I think so these are
00:53:55.099 --> 00:53:58.159
in majority but when they see that there is no
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.500
other way that you have to work so hard that
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:04.739
you even have to forget your health, your identity,
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:07.840
your family, your friends and your relationships.
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.940
They think that this is the only way to achieve
00:54:10.940 --> 00:54:14.380
success. But when they do so, they realize that
00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:17.659
what they left in this entire journey of chasing
00:54:17.659 --> 00:54:22.000
success was way worth, was way worthy than the
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.960
success itself. So if Rayan Holi day is sitting
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.099
down today with let's just say a teenager or
00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:32.159
someone in their 20s, how would you suggest them
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:36.559
to create core values of their lives so that
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:40.579
they can end up having a life that is full of
00:54:40.579 --> 00:54:43.739
meaning instead of just having success that is
00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:46.579
meaningless. Number one, you have to believe
00:54:46.579 --> 00:54:50.179
in yourself in order to achieve what you want
00:54:50.179 --> 00:54:54.619
to achieve. And if you can do that, I think anything
00:54:54.619 --> 00:54:57.739
is possible. A lot of people just, they don't
00:54:57.739 --> 00:55:00.440
believe in themselves. They don't believe in
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:03.739
their abilities. to go out and accomplish things
00:55:03.739 --> 00:55:06.619
that other people have. And I think it, it holds
00:55:06.619 --> 00:55:09.099
them, holds them back from that. So I think the
00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:11.119
first thing is you have to believe in yourself.
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.500
The second is you have to be willing to learn.
00:55:13.739 --> 00:55:16.099
And the third is, you know, along the way, you're
00:55:16.099 --> 00:55:19.179
going to find out what it is that you're passionate
00:55:19.179 --> 00:55:21.059
about. And no matter what, I think you should
00:55:21.059 --> 00:55:23.380
always, you know, do what you're passionate about,
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:26.199
regardless of what it, you know, what it is,
00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:29.579
regardless of anything that. Anybody else says
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:31.260
if you're passionate about something, that's
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:33.280
what you need to be doing You should always be
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:36.119
chasing after what you love to do because then
00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:39.480
it's not work. It's it's it's your passion and
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:42.139
That's how that's how you're gonna lead the most
00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:45.699
rewarding life is doing what you love and it
00:55:45.699 --> 00:55:48.920
doesn't matter what Anybody else thinks or anybody
00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:50.960
else says or what their opinion is. It's your
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:55.139
life so however that comes together with family
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:58.380
with friends with You know, your career, you
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:00.539
know, it'll, it'll all work out, but at the end
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:03.840
of the day, doing what makes you happy is, is
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:05.500
what's going to be the most rewarding. It's not
00:56:05.500 --> 00:56:08.800
money. It's not, you know, trying to, trying
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.320
to keep up with society or following trends or
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.559
anything like that. All that's great, you know,
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:18.599
for the time being, it might be fun, but the
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.340
things that really drive you and the things that
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:23.320
you're passionate about and the things that get
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:25.739
you out of bed every day. Those are the things
00:56:25.739 --> 00:56:28.219
that you need to pursue. And those are the things
00:56:28.219 --> 00:56:31.000
in life that are going to make you happy. I do
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.480
appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.460
today. And if there's an opportunity in the future
00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:38.900
to have a chat again, please let me know. But
00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:41.900
thank you again for having me. And I certainly
00:56:41.900 --> 00:56:44.679
enjoyed the conversation as well. Thank you for
00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:46.739
your time. Once again, have a great day. Take
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:50.280
care. Thank you. You too. Thanks. Bye bye.