Chris Vance: Welcome and thank you for joining the Republican Legacy Podcast. We are the official podcast of our Republican Legacy. ORL is a nationwide group of Republicans who are determined to remain in the Republican Party and fight to move the party back toward its core traditional principles. We're made up of thousands of volunteers across the nation and now 30 state chairs. Today we're joined by one of our state chairs, Lynn Schmidt from Missouri. Later we'll have A few more of our state chairs on in a panel discussion about the week's events. But to begin this week, we are incredibly honored to have the founder, the chairman, ⁓ the man the driving force behind our Republican legacy, Senator John Danforth. Lynn, you you have been Missouri colleagues for years. ⁓ why don't you lead us into the introduction of the Senator?
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm. Thanks so much. So w welcome Senator Danforth. ⁓ I have been a long admirer of of your of you, Senator Danforth, not only as a Republican, but as a Missourian and an American citizen. So you have had a lifetime of public service ⁓ to the state of Missouri as well as to the nation. I'm just gonna run through a few of your ⁓ incredible career accomplishments. ⁓ You served as Mat Missouri's Attorney General. ⁓ you were a three-term US senator. You were US Ambassador to the United Nations. You are an Episcopal priest. this this one goes out to our St. Louis listeners or or viewers. ⁓ you are a a graduate of St. Louis Country Day School and as a mom of a ⁓ a graduate of MICDS. I feel like we're We're in a club here. So ⁓ and you are the founder of our Republican legacy. So again, thank you, Senator, for joining us, and we'd like to start at the beginning. So
Chris Vance: Yeah, Senator, I wanna I wanna I became involved in ORL several months after you actually founded the organization. and I've never really heard the story. Can you t tell us about why you pulled the team together that you did behind our Republican legacy, how that all came together and and why you felt that was so important?
jack: Sure, well it's important for America to have a responsible conservative party. And ⁓ currently it doesn't have a responsible current ⁓ conservative party. It has a right wing party. It is a party that's gravitated over toward the the right fringe of American politics. That's freed the Democrats to move toward the left fringe of American politics. So we're very polarized country right now. The center is gone. We believe that it's important to reconstitute a conservative centrist party. And if we do that, the Democrats would then compete for the center. So right now what we have in American politics is people go to the polls ⁓ and they would rather vote for none of the above. I mean, we hear that very frequently. Well, who are these people? And they they it's when they vote, it's who would we least like to have? Who are we gonna vote against rather than who we're gonna vote for? So we believe that the Republican Party traditionally has offered values that are very important to America. positions that are very important to America, then those values those pot ⁓ positions are gone right now. And we think that it the good thing to do is to try to reconstitute centrism and reconstitute a responsible conservative party.
Chris Vance: Right. And so, Lynn, I there's some questions you're gonna I think ask, but I wanna first jump in and say, Senator, you were able to put together a an amazing team. You know, Senator Simpson, Senator Cohen, and thirty-four other key Republican leaders, members of Congress, governors, ⁓ and two former vice presidents. I mean, tell us about that. How did you just get on the phone and start calling all these folks? And how how did you get them all to agree to be part of this?
jack: Yeah.
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
jack: Yeah, it was word of mouth. You know, it w it started out with three of us. Al Simpson, now deceased, but ⁓ great friend, and Bill Cohen from Maine. Three former Republican senators, all of whom knew that something had gone terribly wrong in our party. This was not the party that we were a part of. And and it's it It's not just different, you know. I mean the Republican Party always had differences of opinions. That's great. That's what politics is all about. We had people who were relatively progressive, people who were relatively the opposite, conservative, but there were certain central values that held us all together. And there was a recognition that that had gone now. And that the MAGA version of our party was not it it wasn't within the ballpark. I mean, it wasn't as though, okay, there's a big tent, they're in it, we're not in it. It was as though they're just ⁓ opposites. And I think we're seeing that right now. I mean, we're seeing that by The way President Trump has been successful in opposing in primary elections people with whom he disagrees, and ⁓ pushing them out of the party and basically saying I don't want you anymore. So that at least is a recognition of a clear break. But our aim is to say, okay, America needs what the Republican Party has been traditionally. And it's played a major role in our country, and it still should and it will in the future.
Lynn Schmidt: Right. At the time you started ORL, ⁓ what concerns were you hearing from your fellow lifelong Republicans?
jack: Well, the the Trump version of the party is not us. It's just not us. I mean, right down the line. And you know, we started out with five values that we we put forth and I mean what we decided were we were just not going to be anti personality. We were going to be what are we for? You know, what what has defined our party in the past? And so we were and were and are oriented toward principles, not toward personality disputes.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah. I think that's so important and that's part of what drew me into becoming involved for sure. So at what point, Senator, did you realize that this wasn't simply a temporary effort, but something that needed to be a lasting organization?
jack: I I think that there are just a lot of people in America, regardless of party, whatever whichever party or no party at all, who know that something has gone terribly wrong in American politics. I mean, just terribly wrong. We are totally off course politically. And there is a recognition that among traditional Republicans that what we have now i has nothing to do with our really illustrious past going back to Abraham Lincoln and through ⁓ Ronald Reagan and the the bushes. I mean, that has been the Republican Party. And it's as though all of that has been, you know, kicked out of the door. And ⁓ so there was a recognition of a lot of people that It's worth restoring what we have been. It's worth standing for the values that we have held. And it's very important to do so for our country. So it was, let's say it was not a hard sell to talk to people who served with me in the Republican Party. It was not a hard sell at all. Everybody knew, yeah, sure, let's do it.
Chris Vance: Right. And Senator, you know, y you mentioned that we are founded and based and centered on five core principles, which by the way, I just think was a very brilliant decision you made. It has kept us from well, ha ha having you know, I've been a political operative my my whole life, and by doing that you have made it unnecessary for us to have long debates about what we believe or you know, that sort of thing. You you've got us focused on five core principles that unite conservatives, which is peace through strength, the constitution, national unity, fiscal conservatism, free enterprise, those sorts of things. Let's can we just walk through each of those five and tell us why that why they're so important? I mean, number one is is unity. You talk about how our party was founded as the party to promote national unity. What what does unity mean to you?
jack: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were th this is Abraham Lincoln. You know, this is a holding the Union together. That was his principle. Keeping the Union together at a time when it was falling apart. And his famous first inaugural address at that time the Union was falling apart. When Lincoln was first inaugurated, seven states had seceded from the Union and Fort Sumter that would start the
Chris Vance: Right.
jack: Civil war would be a month later. It was really falling apart. And Lincoln said we're not enemies but friends. We must not be enemies. That's the message of unity. That we are all one people and we must hold ourselves together as one people. And this this really, that model, Lincoln's model, our founding model as a party, is
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: The opposite of the current version of the Republican Party, which is based on rage. It's based on ⁓ the other side being the enemy. Don't embrace them, kick them out. Anti-immigrant. Okay. They're very the idea now is okay, they're they're different kinds of Americans, you know. They're sort of legacy Americans, their newcomers, anti-immigrant. That's not the Republican Party that I know. And it's the idea of instead of you know Lincoln saying we're not enemies but friends, there's a cruelty in all of this. I mean, the basic image image of the Republican Party now is cruelty. And again, ⁓ a Lincoln reference, you know, during the Civil War, how the way he spent his evenings was reviewing ⁓ death sentence for ⁓ for traitor people to traitors, people and ⁓ hit officers, that kind of thing. And he was famous for s taking the position he was going to forgive these people. He was going to pardon people. Who had done terrible things, even desertion. He was going to pardon them, and he did by the thousands and thousands. But there was one group he would not pardon, and that was meanness. He would not pardon meanness, he would not pardon cruelty. What today is the image of American politics, and particularly the image of the Republican Party? It's cruelty, it's meanness. It's Minneapolis.
Chris Vance: Mm. Wow.
jack: It's shooting people, it's bullying them, it's beating people up, it's massed thugs in the streets. That's now the image of the Republican Party. And it's the very opposite of Abraham Lincoln, whose basic message was we've got to hold ourselves together as one people.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. I'd love that you talk about that and we talk about that. I've my whole career I've tried to emphasize to people that it was the Republican Party that was the party of civil rights. It was the Republican Party that during the nineteen sixties voted for civil rights legislation. So the and the s the second principle is i is amazing we even have to talk about this, but it's it's fidelity to the constitution. ⁓ and why is that so important?
jack: Well, you know, I think that that that particular principle, the Constitution, the specific impetus of that was January sixth, you know? And it was the importance of ⁓ of Americans having confidence in their elec in their elections, in the process of their elections.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: And then the idea that ⁓ no elections are rigged. So I was one of eight Republican lawyers. Most of them much more esteemed than I, but I mean constitutional scholars and election experts, and they looked at the facts of the twenty twenty election. We we didn't find a single precinct in the country that would have over been overturned by fraud. And yet that was the browning cry for January sixth. And all these people were convened.
Lynn Schmidt: And it's and it continues.
jack: Yeah, all these people were convened in Washington and they were told, well, I mean the election was rigged. Now those same people have been pardoned, and now the president wants to give the money for their efforts. So it it's it's it's honestly it's outrageous. But that was the origin of the idea of the Constitution.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: Because public it was like the Declaration of Independence, government drives its just power from the consent of the governed. Well, if you weaken that consent, you really cause damage to the country. That's what happened with that. But I think now it's it's we have evolved this concept of the Constitution because the Constitution forms a structure.
Chris Vance: Great.
jack: And the structure is how we work out our differences, and we're always going to have differences. And the question is, how do we work out those differences? And Article One of the Constitution is the Congress. And the Congress is the place where all these competing interests and all these competing ideas come together in a legislative process, and these competing ideas and interests work themselves out through the process. That's gone now. That's gone. So right now Congress Congress is defunct. Congress has Congress is now simply a rubber stamp for President Trump. It's just a rubber stamp. It's it's reached a point of supine insignificance. And it's very important to restore the role of Congress.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. ⁓
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: as where Americans come together with their differences and work things out. But now we don't have that. We have a personality cult and we have a Republican Party in Congress which is inert. It doesn't do anything. It may they may as well not in fact a lot of times they don't do anything. They go on vacations all the time. Good for them. Nice to go on vacations, but it would be nicer to do their job.
Chris Vance: Right. I one thing I've one th One thing unfortunately they have done is massively increased the national debt. It's now approaching forty trillion dollars. Social security and Medicare are approaching insolvency. Our third principle is fiscal responsibility. Can you talk about how Republicans at least used to try and be fiscally responsible and what what's happened to that?
jack: Well, in the first Trump administration the national bet went up forty percent in four years. Now it's part of that was COVID. But now with the great big beautiful bill, or whatever it was called, it's gone up even more. Now it's exceeds the size of the economy. And how how anybody can think that it makes America great again? To pass on this legacy of bankruptcy to the future. And then that is what we have done. America can't be strong if it's a beggar country. That's what we are. We're a beggar country right now. So yeah, but fiscal responsibility, we we were, insofar as there were budget hawks back in the day, we were the budget hawks. You know? I mean, we were. We were the ones who say, wait a second, we got concerned about deficits in the hundreds of billions of dollars, not the trillions of dollars, which is what they are now. So yeah, I think we've lost ⁓ any interest in containing the national ed, and things are getting worse. I mean, they're just recently, as today's paper, there's a story about how Social Security is going bankrupt. It is. So that people are gonna be having their Social Security benefits cut about twenty-two percent in the year twenty thirty two. What are we doing about that? Going on vacation. Yeah, we're going on vacation. That's what Congress is doing about it. Kick up their heels.
Lynn Schmidt: That's just six years from now.
Chris Vance: Yeah. Right. The The other thing we've just lost focus on completely is free enterprise. I mean, I'm out here in Washington State where our economy is completely based on trade. Republicans always fought for free trade and the right of free markets, and this administration is just and this party has just abandoned that. I mean, that's our fourth principle. why is free enterprise so important?
jack: Yeah. Sure, yeah. I mean now you have a version of the Republican Party that really is a throwback to what the Democratic Party was known for, still is known for intervention in the economy, government intervention in the economy. Washington knows best. Washington should be in control. So instead of the market. Place dominating, it's Washington that dominates. So the president imposes tariffs on his own whim. He imposes the tariffs, he withdraws the tariffs, he increases them, he reduces them. Whatever he wants to do, this is a congressional responsibility. But the position of The president was, ⁓ no, he unilaterally was able to impose tariffs, which are a form of taxation. And then, in addition to that, now the government takes ownership interest in in businesses, Intel, 10% of Intel owned by government. How is that a Republican idea? How is it a Republican idea?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: For the government of the United States to own business. It isn't. It's the opposite. We had confidence in the private sector, not unchained, not unbridled. We had environmental laws, we have antitrust laws, we have various controls, which we have to have. But when you move from that into high protective tariffs,
Chris Vance: Right. Right.
jack: And when you move from that into government ownership a business, you've crossed a line that we were never willing to cross before.
Chris Vance: Right, and now we have finally a Republican president who has seemed to abandon peace through strength. He says he may not defend NATO allies, he doesn't stand with Ukraine. I it just it's amazing to me that that ⁓ the Republican Party has has allowed this. Why peace through strength is our final principle.
jack: Yeah, I mean it's I mean Some historians in the future are going to be able to analyze what I just don't understand at all, which is how easily Putin has played Trump. I I don't understand how it could be. And I don't understand how we could do anything other than solidly support Ukraine. Don't understand it. And the idea of belittling Canada, the fifty-first state thing, Greenland, Denmark, having our vice president go over and berate NATO. Ape this is now your ⁓ Dwight Eisenhower, you know, and Arthur Vandenberg, you're for these great Republican names. That was peace through strength, strong alliances. Can we ⁓ can we press the Europeans to be supportive of NATO? Sure we can. And they certainly have stepped up now with Ukraine now that we have been pulling the plug. But it's it's quite remarkable. It it's really beyond beyond comprehension that we wouldn't be all in for Ukraine other than somehow Putin is able to play Trump. I don't know how that is. Somehow he is. And then there's the Iran situation. What what went wrong there? I mean, was it did the president understand that the Strait of Hornu Hormuz could be closed? Did he understand that? Was he told that? Was there a breakdown in the intelligence community? According to the papers, no, the military had done and the intelligence people had done what we assumed that they'd done, and that is game out what would happen if we do this, what would they do in? Response. They say that the president was told all that, and then he went ahead with it. Then he went ahead with Iran. So we're in significantly weakened position right now than we were before the Iran war. But he just well what happened there? I mean he is supposed to be the great brilliant deal maker. Had he lost it? I mean had he just ignored all this? Was he was there such hubris that he thought, ⁓ my gosh, all we're gonna do is drop some bombs and they're gonna cave? Did he think that? I don't think he was told that by our intelligence community or by our military people. I don't think he was told that. But that's how he acted.
Chris Vance: Right. Right.
Lynn Schmidt: sorry, I I believe the the House just passed in the past week the Support Ukraine Act and I I should fact check myself but I believe every Republican member of of the House ⁓ from Missouri voted against it. It which just is sh is shocking. Like you you c you can't believe where we are, right? You know?
jack: I agree. I agree. And it it's as though
Chris Vance: Yeah, there's
jack: Right now, the Republican Party is Donald Trump. I mean, it's a personality cult, it's whatever he's for. The Republican Party is Donald Trump. It's nothing more. There's no daylight. There's nothing. It's just whatever he wants to do is okay. And if he
Chris Vance: Right. Right. I I have I have I have one very good w former friend who serves in Congress from Missouri. Ann Wagner was the chair of the Missouri Party when I was chair of the Washington Party. We're about the same age. We were friends and ⁓ what's happened to her, her transformation to me is just incredible because sh she was one of us, believe me.
Lynn Schmidt: She definitely voted no to support Ukraine.
jack: Yeah, well I think Anne is a good person and ⁓ I think it's hard it's just hard to withstand Trump. I mean he's so threatening and if you cross him in any way, I mean look at this Nancy Mace, if you vote to release the ex scene files, you're finished. I mean there's no deviation with Trump that's ⁓ that's tolerated.
Chris Vance: Right. So we are coming we're coming to the end of our we're coming to the end of our time together. Senator, if you were speaking directly to a young Republican right now, somebody younger than any of us, I guess, ⁓ what what what ⁓ what advice would you give them about a future in in politics?
jack: You know, I think it's ⁓ very important to respect our institutions. There was a guy who ran here for the Senate in my state for the Senate a number of years ago and he he said if he was elected to the Senate he was gonna be like a hand grenade rolled out on the floor of the Senate. I mean, is that really what we want? Is that is that what we want is just performers of people who are so in for themselves. It's said today, and all you have to do is look at the very recent primary election results around the country, that people are against the establishment, they're against the institutions, and they're there to. be like hand grenades or cause damages or blow things up. But we have the greatest system of government that was ever created. And it was created by these brilliant, brilliant people in the late eighteenth century. They put together a system, a structure, a constitutional structure. Which succeeded in holding us together in very, very difficult times. And I think it's important not to just be, you know, one person operatives and a lot of prancing and bragging and getting yourself on the evening news or getting posts on social media and all that kind of stuff. But it's very important to understand what the country is about and how the how the system was designed to get us through tough times and to be loyal to that system. And I think that's what I would say.
Chris Vance: Hm. Wow. Lynn, final final questions from you.
Lynn Schmidt: ⁓ yeah, so I know we're wrapping up, but I wanted to share a story that would lead into one last question. So ⁓ back in twenty fifteen, Missouri lost its state auditor, Tom Schweig, to suicide. He was also ⁓ a gubernatorial candidate for twenty sixteen. ⁓ I believe he was your friend and and former chief of staff as well. ⁓ I was able to attend Tom's funeral. ⁓ where you gave the eulogy and you spoke so eloquently about loss and grief, but also about our politics. And and you I think you could see even back then that we were headed in a in a in a bad direction within our party. So ⁓ your words still carry me eleven years later and I knew that ⁓ you were somebody that I could look to for leadership. So I wonder if you could just wrap us up, maybe talking about how your faith or ⁓ your belief in civility can help ⁓ can help in our politics right now.
jack: Well, I think that Lincoln said it very well when he said we're not enemies but friends we must not be enemies. I think that that's also a very religious concept, you know. The way that it's expressed in religious terms is love your enemy. I don't think we would say that in a political context, but I could at least say, you know, you're my friend and I I don't agree with you. But you know, I'm your friend and and it's this is not a battle of good versus evil. It cannot be. Politics is simply politics, you know. It's not politics is not like political
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: religion the realm of ultimate concern. Politics is not ultimate control ⁓ concern. Politics is working stuff out and getting along and compromise and all of that. And I think that that's what we have to return to. And it it cannot be the case that in politics anything goes. It can't be. That any viciousness goes, any meanness goes, any attacks go. It cannot be we've gotta look for the good in the other person, disagree with them, you know, strongly disagree with them. But disagree with them in the context of recognizing a fellow human.
Chris Vance: That's fantastic. Senator, thank you for being with us today. We're accomplishing great things with ORL, and it all starts with you. And it still does. You started this, you still drive it forward. We are all proud to serve under you, with you, for you. ⁓ so thank you for being here. ⁓
Lynn Schmidt: Thank you.
jack: Great. Thanks a lot.
Lynn Schmidt: Thank you, Senator.
Chris Vance: Yep. So next up next up, Lynn and I will be back with ⁓ Merrill Matthews, our chair from Texas, and Stephen Willing, the chair from California, to talk about the events of this last week and the latest ⁓ progress being made by our Republican legacy.
jack: Right.
Lynn Schmidt: Thanks.
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm. Thanks so much. So w welcome Senator Danforth. ⁓ I have been a long admirer of of your of you, Senator Danforth, not only as a Republican, but as a Missourian and an American citizen. So you have had a lifetime of public service ⁓ to the state of Missouri as well as to the nation. I'm just gonna run through a few of your ⁓ incredible career accomplishments. ⁓ You served as Mat Missouri's Attorney General. ⁓ you were a three-term US senator. You were US Ambassador to the United Nations. You are an Episcopal priest. this this one goes out to our St. Louis listeners or or viewers. ⁓ you are a a graduate of St. Louis Country Day School and as a mom of a ⁓ a graduate of MICDS. I feel like we're We're in a club here. So ⁓ and you are the founder of our Republican legacy. So again, thank you, Senator, for joining us, and we'd like to start at the beginning. So
Chris Vance: Yeah, Senator, I wanna I wanna I became involved in ORL several months after you actually founded the organization. and I've never really heard the story. Can you t tell us about why you pulled the team together that you did behind our Republican legacy, how that all came together and and why you felt that was so important?
jack: Sure, well it's important for America to have a responsible conservative party. And ⁓ currently it doesn't have a responsible current ⁓ conservative party. It has a right wing party. It is a party that's gravitated over toward the the right fringe of American politics. That's freed the Democrats to move toward the left fringe of American politics. So we're very polarized country right now. The center is gone. We believe that it's important to reconstitute a conservative centrist party. And if we do that, the Democrats would then compete for the center. So right now what we have in American politics is people go to the polls ⁓ and they would rather vote for none of the above. I mean, we hear that very frequently. Well, who are these people? And they they it's when they vote, it's who would we least like to have? Who are we gonna vote against rather than who we're gonna vote for? So we believe that the Republican Party traditionally has offered values that are very important to America. positions that are very important to America, then those values those pot ⁓ positions are gone right now. And we think that it the good thing to do is to try to reconstitute centrism and reconstitute a responsible conservative party.
Chris Vance: Right. And so, Lynn, I there's some questions you're gonna I think ask, but I wanna first jump in and say, Senator, you were able to put together a an amazing team. You know, Senator Simpson, Senator Cohen, and thirty-four other key Republican leaders, members of Congress, governors, ⁓ and two former vice presidents. I mean, tell us about that. How did you just get on the phone and start calling all these folks? And how how did you get them all to agree to be part of this?
jack: Yeah.
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
jack: Yeah, it was word of mouth. You know, it w it started out with three of us. Al Simpson, now deceased, but ⁓ great friend, and Bill Cohen from Maine. Three former Republican senators, all of whom knew that something had gone terribly wrong in our party. This was not the party that we were a part of. And and it's it It's not just different, you know. I mean the Republican Party always had differences of opinions. That's great. That's what politics is all about. We had people who were relatively progressive, people who were relatively the opposite, conservative, but there were certain central values that held us all together. And there was a recognition that that had gone now. And that the MAGA version of our party was not it it wasn't within the ballpark. I mean, it wasn't as though, okay, there's a big tent, they're in it, we're not in it. It was as though they're just ⁓ opposites. And I think we're seeing that right now. I mean, we're seeing that by The way President Trump has been successful in opposing in primary elections people with whom he disagrees, and ⁓ pushing them out of the party and basically saying I don't want you anymore. So that at least is a recognition of a clear break. But our aim is to say, okay, America needs what the Republican Party has been traditionally. And it's played a major role in our country, and it still should and it will in the future.
Lynn Schmidt: Right. At the time you started ORL, ⁓ what concerns were you hearing from your fellow lifelong Republicans?
jack: Well, the the Trump version of the party is not us. It's just not us. I mean, right down the line. And you know, we started out with five values that we we put forth and I mean what we decided were we were just not going to be anti personality. We were going to be what are we for? You know, what what has defined our party in the past? And so we were and were and are oriented toward principles, not toward personality disputes.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah. I think that's so important and that's part of what drew me into becoming involved for sure. So at what point, Senator, did you realize that this wasn't simply a temporary effort, but something that needed to be a lasting organization?
jack: I I think that there are just a lot of people in America, regardless of party, whatever whichever party or no party at all, who know that something has gone terribly wrong in American politics. I mean, just terribly wrong. We are totally off course politically. And there is a recognition that among traditional Republicans that what we have now i has nothing to do with our really illustrious past going back to Abraham Lincoln and through ⁓ Ronald Reagan and the the bushes. I mean, that has been the Republican Party. And it's as though all of that has been, you know, kicked out of the door. And ⁓ so there was a recognition of a lot of people that It's worth restoring what we have been. It's worth standing for the values that we have held. And it's very important to do so for our country. So it was, let's say it was not a hard sell to talk to people who served with me in the Republican Party. It was not a hard sell at all. Everybody knew, yeah, sure, let's do it.
Chris Vance: Right. And Senator, you know, y you mentioned that we are founded and based and centered on five core principles, which by the way, I just think was a very brilliant decision you made. It has kept us from well, ha ha having you know, I've been a political operative my my whole life, and by doing that you have made it unnecessary for us to have long debates about what we believe or you know, that sort of thing. You you've got us focused on five core principles that unite conservatives, which is peace through strength, the constitution, national unity, fiscal conservatism, free enterprise, those sorts of things. Let's can we just walk through each of those five and tell us why that why they're so important? I mean, number one is is unity. You talk about how our party was founded as the party to promote national unity. What what does unity mean to you?
jack: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were th this is Abraham Lincoln. You know, this is a holding the Union together. That was his principle. Keeping the Union together at a time when it was falling apart. And his famous first inaugural address at that time the Union was falling apart. When Lincoln was first inaugurated, seven states had seceded from the Union and Fort Sumter that would start the
Chris Vance: Right.
jack: Civil war would be a month later. It was really falling apart. And Lincoln said we're not enemies but friends. We must not be enemies. That's the message of unity. That we are all one people and we must hold ourselves together as one people. And this this really, that model, Lincoln's model, our founding model as a party, is
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: The opposite of the current version of the Republican Party, which is based on rage. It's based on ⁓ the other side being the enemy. Don't embrace them, kick them out. Anti-immigrant. Okay. They're very the idea now is okay, they're they're different kinds of Americans, you know. They're sort of legacy Americans, their newcomers, anti-immigrant. That's not the Republican Party that I know. And it's the idea of instead of you know Lincoln saying we're not enemies but friends, there's a cruelty in all of this. I mean, the basic image image of the Republican Party now is cruelty. And again, ⁓ a Lincoln reference, you know, during the Civil War, how the way he spent his evenings was reviewing ⁓ death sentence for ⁓ for traitor people to traitors, people and ⁓ hit officers, that kind of thing. And he was famous for s taking the position he was going to forgive these people. He was going to pardon people. Who had done terrible things, even desertion. He was going to pardon them, and he did by the thousands and thousands. But there was one group he would not pardon, and that was meanness. He would not pardon meanness, he would not pardon cruelty. What today is the image of American politics, and particularly the image of the Republican Party? It's cruelty, it's meanness. It's Minneapolis.
Chris Vance: Mm. Wow.
jack: It's shooting people, it's bullying them, it's beating people up, it's massed thugs in the streets. That's now the image of the Republican Party. And it's the very opposite of Abraham Lincoln, whose basic message was we've got to hold ourselves together as one people.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. I'd love that you talk about that and we talk about that. I've my whole career I've tried to emphasize to people that it was the Republican Party that was the party of civil rights. It was the Republican Party that during the nineteen sixties voted for civil rights legislation. So the and the s the second principle is i is amazing we even have to talk about this, but it's it's fidelity to the constitution. ⁓ and why is that so important?
jack: Well, you know, I think that that that particular principle, the Constitution, the specific impetus of that was January sixth, you know? And it was the importance of ⁓ of Americans having confidence in their elec in their elections, in the process of their elections.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: And then the idea that ⁓ no elections are rigged. So I was one of eight Republican lawyers. Most of them much more esteemed than I, but I mean constitutional scholars and election experts, and they looked at the facts of the twenty twenty election. We we didn't find a single precinct in the country that would have over been overturned by fraud. And yet that was the browning cry for January sixth. And all these people were convened.
Lynn Schmidt: And it's and it continues.
jack: Yeah, all these people were convened in Washington and they were told, well, I mean the election was rigged. Now those same people have been pardoned, and now the president wants to give the money for their efforts. So it it's it's it's honestly it's outrageous. But that was the origin of the idea of the Constitution.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: Because public it was like the Declaration of Independence, government drives its just power from the consent of the governed. Well, if you weaken that consent, you really cause damage to the country. That's what happened with that. But I think now it's it's we have evolved this concept of the Constitution because the Constitution forms a structure.
Chris Vance: Great.
jack: And the structure is how we work out our differences, and we're always going to have differences. And the question is, how do we work out those differences? And Article One of the Constitution is the Congress. And the Congress is the place where all these competing interests and all these competing ideas come together in a legislative process, and these competing ideas and interests work themselves out through the process. That's gone now. That's gone. So right now Congress Congress is defunct. Congress has Congress is now simply a rubber stamp for President Trump. It's just a rubber stamp. It's it's reached a point of supine insignificance. And it's very important to restore the role of Congress.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. ⁓
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
jack: as where Americans come together with their differences and work things out. But now we don't have that. We have a personality cult and we have a Republican Party in Congress which is inert. It doesn't do anything. It may they may as well not in fact a lot of times they don't do anything. They go on vacations all the time. Good for them. Nice to go on vacations, but it would be nicer to do their job.
Chris Vance: Right. I one thing I've one th One thing unfortunately they have done is massively increased the national debt. It's now approaching forty trillion dollars. Social security and Medicare are approaching insolvency. Our third principle is fiscal responsibility. Can you talk about how Republicans at least used to try and be fiscally responsible and what what's happened to that?
jack: Well, in the first Trump administration the national bet went up forty percent in four years. Now it's part of that was COVID. But now with the great big beautiful bill, or whatever it was called, it's gone up even more. Now it's exceeds the size of the economy. And how how anybody can think that it makes America great again? To pass on this legacy of bankruptcy to the future. And then that is what we have done. America can't be strong if it's a beggar country. That's what we are. We're a beggar country right now. So yeah, but fiscal responsibility, we we were, insofar as there were budget hawks back in the day, we were the budget hawks. You know? I mean, we were. We were the ones who say, wait a second, we got concerned about deficits in the hundreds of billions of dollars, not the trillions of dollars, which is what they are now. So yeah, I think we've lost ⁓ any interest in containing the national ed, and things are getting worse. I mean, they're just recently, as today's paper, there's a story about how Social Security is going bankrupt. It is. So that people are gonna be having their Social Security benefits cut about twenty-two percent in the year twenty thirty two. What are we doing about that? Going on vacation. Yeah, we're going on vacation. That's what Congress is doing about it. Kick up their heels.
Lynn Schmidt: That's just six years from now.
Chris Vance: Yeah. Right. The The other thing we've just lost focus on completely is free enterprise. I mean, I'm out here in Washington State where our economy is completely based on trade. Republicans always fought for free trade and the right of free markets, and this administration is just and this party has just abandoned that. I mean, that's our fourth principle. why is free enterprise so important?
jack: Yeah. Sure, yeah. I mean now you have a version of the Republican Party that really is a throwback to what the Democratic Party was known for, still is known for intervention in the economy, government intervention in the economy. Washington knows best. Washington should be in control. So instead of the market. Place dominating, it's Washington that dominates. So the president imposes tariffs on his own whim. He imposes the tariffs, he withdraws the tariffs, he increases them, he reduces them. Whatever he wants to do, this is a congressional responsibility. But the position of The president was, ⁓ no, he unilaterally was able to impose tariffs, which are a form of taxation. And then, in addition to that, now the government takes ownership interest in in businesses, Intel, 10% of Intel owned by government. How is that a Republican idea? How is it a Republican idea?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: For the government of the United States to own business. It isn't. It's the opposite. We had confidence in the private sector, not unchained, not unbridled. We had environmental laws, we have antitrust laws, we have various controls, which we have to have. But when you move from that into high protective tariffs,
Chris Vance: Right. Right.
jack: And when you move from that into government ownership a business, you've crossed a line that we were never willing to cross before.
Chris Vance: Right, and now we have finally a Republican president who has seemed to abandon peace through strength. He says he may not defend NATO allies, he doesn't stand with Ukraine. I it just it's amazing to me that that ⁓ the Republican Party has has allowed this. Why peace through strength is our final principle.
jack: Yeah, I mean it's I mean Some historians in the future are going to be able to analyze what I just don't understand at all, which is how easily Putin has played Trump. I I don't understand how it could be. And I don't understand how we could do anything other than solidly support Ukraine. Don't understand it. And the idea of belittling Canada, the fifty-first state thing, Greenland, Denmark, having our vice president go over and berate NATO. Ape this is now your ⁓ Dwight Eisenhower, you know, and Arthur Vandenberg, you're for these great Republican names. That was peace through strength, strong alliances. Can we ⁓ can we press the Europeans to be supportive of NATO? Sure we can. And they certainly have stepped up now with Ukraine now that we have been pulling the plug. But it's it's quite remarkable. It it's really beyond beyond comprehension that we wouldn't be all in for Ukraine other than somehow Putin is able to play Trump. I don't know how that is. Somehow he is. And then there's the Iran situation. What what went wrong there? I mean, was it did the president understand that the Strait of Hornu Hormuz could be closed? Did he understand that? Was he told that? Was there a breakdown in the intelligence community? According to the papers, no, the military had done and the intelligence people had done what we assumed that they'd done, and that is game out what would happen if we do this, what would they do in? Response. They say that the president was told all that, and then he went ahead with it. Then he went ahead with Iran. So we're in significantly weakened position right now than we were before the Iran war. But he just well what happened there? I mean he is supposed to be the great brilliant deal maker. Had he lost it? I mean had he just ignored all this? Was he was there such hubris that he thought, ⁓ my gosh, all we're gonna do is drop some bombs and they're gonna cave? Did he think that? I don't think he was told that by our intelligence community or by our military people. I don't think he was told that. But that's how he acted.
Chris Vance: Right. Right.
Lynn Schmidt: sorry, I I believe the the House just passed in the past week the Support Ukraine Act and I I should fact check myself but I believe every Republican member of of the House ⁓ from Missouri voted against it. It which just is sh is shocking. Like you you c you can't believe where we are, right? You know?
jack: I agree. I agree. And it it's as though
Chris Vance: Yeah, there's
jack: Right now, the Republican Party is Donald Trump. I mean, it's a personality cult, it's whatever he's for. The Republican Party is Donald Trump. It's nothing more. There's no daylight. There's nothing. It's just whatever he wants to do is okay. And if he
Chris Vance: Right. Right. I I have I have I have one very good w former friend who serves in Congress from Missouri. Ann Wagner was the chair of the Missouri Party when I was chair of the Washington Party. We're about the same age. We were friends and ⁓ what's happened to her, her transformation to me is just incredible because sh she was one of us, believe me.
Lynn Schmidt: She definitely voted no to support Ukraine.
jack: Yeah, well I think Anne is a good person and ⁓ I think it's hard it's just hard to withstand Trump. I mean he's so threatening and if you cross him in any way, I mean look at this Nancy Mace, if you vote to release the ex scene files, you're finished. I mean there's no deviation with Trump that's ⁓ that's tolerated.
Chris Vance: Right. So we are coming we're coming to the end of our we're coming to the end of our time together. Senator, if you were speaking directly to a young Republican right now, somebody younger than any of us, I guess, ⁓ what what what ⁓ what advice would you give them about a future in in politics?
jack: You know, I think it's ⁓ very important to respect our institutions. There was a guy who ran here for the Senate in my state for the Senate a number of years ago and he he said if he was elected to the Senate he was gonna be like a hand grenade rolled out on the floor of the Senate. I mean, is that really what we want? Is that is that what we want is just performers of people who are so in for themselves. It's said today, and all you have to do is look at the very recent primary election results around the country, that people are against the establishment, they're against the institutions, and they're there to. be like hand grenades or cause damages or blow things up. But we have the greatest system of government that was ever created. And it was created by these brilliant, brilliant people in the late eighteenth century. They put together a system, a structure, a constitutional structure. Which succeeded in holding us together in very, very difficult times. And I think it's important not to just be, you know, one person operatives and a lot of prancing and bragging and getting yourself on the evening news or getting posts on social media and all that kind of stuff. But it's very important to understand what the country is about and how the how the system was designed to get us through tough times and to be loyal to that system. And I think that's what I would say.
Chris Vance: Hm. Wow. Lynn, final final questions from you.
Lynn Schmidt: ⁓ yeah, so I know we're wrapping up, but I wanted to share a story that would lead into one last question. So ⁓ back in twenty fifteen, Missouri lost its state auditor, Tom Schweig, to suicide. He was also ⁓ a gubernatorial candidate for twenty sixteen. ⁓ I believe he was your friend and and former chief of staff as well. ⁓ I was able to attend Tom's funeral. ⁓ where you gave the eulogy and you spoke so eloquently about loss and grief, but also about our politics. And and you I think you could see even back then that we were headed in a in a in a bad direction within our party. So ⁓ your words still carry me eleven years later and I knew that ⁓ you were somebody that I could look to for leadership. So I wonder if you could just wrap us up, maybe talking about how your faith or ⁓ your belief in civility can help ⁓ can help in our politics right now.
jack: Well, I think that Lincoln said it very well when he said we're not enemies but friends we must not be enemies. I think that that's also a very religious concept, you know. The way that it's expressed in religious terms is love your enemy. I don't think we would say that in a political context, but I could at least say, you know, you're my friend and I I don't agree with you. But you know, I'm your friend and and it's this is not a battle of good versus evil. It cannot be. Politics is simply politics, you know. It's not politics is not like political
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
jack: religion the realm of ultimate concern. Politics is not ultimate control ⁓ concern. Politics is working stuff out and getting along and compromise and all of that. And I think that that's what we have to return to. And it it cannot be the case that in politics anything goes. It can't be. That any viciousness goes, any meanness goes, any attacks go. It cannot be we've gotta look for the good in the other person, disagree with them, you know, strongly disagree with them. But disagree with them in the context of recognizing a fellow human.
Chris Vance: That's fantastic. Senator, thank you for being with us today. We're accomplishing great things with ORL, and it all starts with you. And it still does. You started this, you still drive it forward. We are all proud to serve under you, with you, for you. ⁓ so thank you for being here. ⁓
Lynn Schmidt: Thank you.
jack: Great. Thanks a lot.
Lynn Schmidt: Thank you, Senator.
Chris Vance: Yep. So next up next up, Lynn and I will be back with ⁓ Merrill Matthews, our chair from Texas, and Stephen Willing, the chair from California, to talk about the events of this last week and the latest ⁓ progress being made by our Republican legacy.
jack: Right.
Lynn Schmidt: Thanks.
