00:00:14
Speaker 1: Well, g'day everybody and welcome to the Renee Slubs Tennis Podcast. We are coming to you live immediately after one of the big stories in tennis as of today. And that is the default. While in the middle of a match of Daniil Medvedev. Caitlin, before we even get to like all the tennis that we've seen over the last week and the upsets and the women going down like flies and all that sort of stuff. This tennis was unbelievable. Novak Djokovic, first of all, is turning back the clock. He is playing unbelievable tennis. He's not missing. He's back to like 10 years ago, Novak Djokovic. I don't know what it is in Beijing. You would know. You live there. But he plays, I would argue, the best tennis of his career in Beijing. He is undefeated there. He beats the newly crowned US Open in our buddy Zverev in an incredible three-set match. And then he goes out and this, it is a war of attrition. It was like turning back the time watching Medvedev and Djokovic play. 40 ball rallies, Novak's keeling over like he's dying as per usual. Medvedev's kind of paying him out for it and like pretending to double over himself after he loses a point as a joke. I mean, it is like drama filled. It's all the things you want from these two players, right? It was like they were both playing again at Grand Slam final. It was incredible tennis. I don't know how Medvedev didn't break him early in the second set. He had like 58 break points and then Novak breaks him and then it gets to 5-3 in the first set. Serving for the match, Novak Djokovic hits the ball past Medvedev, hits the back wall. Medvedev decides to whack it against the back wall, but the wall did not get in the way. A gentleman in the front rows, I did though, and it is game, set, and match. And you know Djokovic is down the other end going, well, I know the fate. I know the fate of what is about to happen to you, bro. And if it's not the fate that I'm expecting, I'm going to be pissed because we all remember the default at the US Open. And so it was inevitable that Mr. Lahani was going to get off the chair and say, well, sorry, bro, you're done. And that's what happened. And Novak's face, walking to shake his hand, was almost like, been there.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Sorry. Unbelievable.
00:02:38
Speaker 1: What the... You know what?
00:02:40
Speaker 2: I just have to say, I was literally having this conversation on Friday with a friend of mine who I play tennis with on occasion, Melissa. And we were talking about why the rule for defaulting doesn't happen automatically. Why doesn't it kick in automatically when... the players throw or hit a ball anywhere near a human being. It only triggers a response from the umpire if the ball or racket hits somebody. A line judge in the case of Novak Djokovic in that fateful US Open, I think it was a semifinal that you're talking about, obviously Medvedev, a crowd. Who can forget Shapovalov firing off a ball that hit the umpire in the face, breaking one of his bones. automatic thief, but only if it hits somebody. Whereas the amount of times we've seen players throw, kick, send brackets, balls, other equipment in harm's way towards people, to me, it's not... It shouldn't be what results. It should be the intent, which is to fire something off out of frustration. But yeah, what a nutso ending to the tournament. I mean, the only... Well, not an ending. Sorry, the only end to the match. What a strange way to end a semifinal. But, you know, as you said, Djokovic was already serving for it up a set and to have his, you know, to serve it out against Medvedev. I wish this was the Medvedev we'd seen at the U.S. Open. And I wish this was the Novak Djokovic we'd seen at the U.S. Open because you'll notice that Alex Varev can't beat anybody who is ranked higher than him.
00:04:21
Speaker 1: Once again.
00:04:22
Speaker 2: So it's hard to take the claims credibly that he is the best player in the world right now when he loses to Novak Djokovic, who is approximately 187 years old. But like you said, full credit to him. He's undefeated in Beijing. I have no idea what it is. Maybe he just likes Yang Ruochua, and he's eating his spicy lamb before every match. before he goes in and gets it done. Probably not.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Somehow I doubt that. Somehow I doubt that Novak's not doing that.
00:04:48
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure he's eating vegan. But yeah, what a nutso ending to this semifinal.
00:04:54
Speaker 1: I mean, Medvedev's face was just like, shit. You know, as a player, and yes, I want to go back to that because we talk about this and have talked about this ad nauseum. I have on this pod for sure. Anytime a racket leaves the court, which we saw this... was it Erlian, it was Altman, or I can't remember who it was, threw his racket on the ground, then kicked it. I think it was in Berlin or in Germany somewhere. Someone's going to tweet me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, but somewhere over there in Europe prior to the French Open, I believe, or Wimbledon, and kicks the racket and it goes into the crowd. And the umpire just goes, yep, that's fine. And I was so pissed about it because I'm like, are you joking me? They're Ducking and weaving out of the way of a tennis racket coming towards them as fans. Like, I'm sorry, unacceptable. I will stand 10 toes down on this. I definitely had my own little moments on the court. I would yell and scream. I would get upset. I know what it feels like to be an emotional tennis player. I am not an Emma Navarro. I am not a Jessica Bagula. Definitely more along the Sabalenka train.
00:06:05
Speaker 3: And.
00:06:06
Speaker 1: But I would never do that. I would never throw my racket to the point where I would lose control into the crowd. I don't understand why every single umpire doesn't make this a blanket rule.
00:06:17
Speaker 2: I don't care.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: I've seen Sitsipas hit balls into the crowd. I've told you the story where the umpire actually said to me, or the referee, even worse, the referee who could come on the court and default him immediately said, ah, he caught the ball.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: Oh, what?
00:06:30
Speaker 1: The guy caught the ball, none of that should matter. If you ding a ball out of the stands and it goes anywhere near the crowd, okay, there's a blanket, there's a little bit ambiguity. What if it goes over the stands and goes out? I don't care. I think we need to do something where if you hit a ball that leaves the tennis court and it goes in the vicinity of anywhere near the crowd or your racket, you should be defaulted immediately. It's the only way to stop it. It's like, You see sports around the world. I've seen rugby. I watch rugby a lot, right? And I see these guys hit each other so hard, and they want to pummel each other. And then the little referee will blow the whistle and bring these two men together and say, stop it, stop it, and that's enough. And you see them nod their heads like they're 12-year-old schoolboys. It's like because those are the rules. It's the same in basketball. You can't touch an umpire. You can't yell at an umpire. You can't say something to a referee, or they'll, like, give you a tech foul. You could be teched out of there in the game in two seconds. Like we need to do something better in tennis where it becomes a blanket statement. If you hit a ball that leaves the tennis court, even if it's just unlucky, too bad. You have the control of doing that. And that's why we've had arguments about this with Novak fans, you know, like he shouldn't have been default. Yes, he should have. And just like today, he should have been defaulted immediately. Let's not have this referee come out in the court and go, did you mean it? I don't care. You hit somebody in the face. It's just blanket. Be done. So yes, I think your conversation with your friend about it today was a perfect example.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: Why don't we have that rule? It's so dumb. So much of... rulemaking is about taking preventive measures are you going to wait for somebody like an umpire to get their face broken are you going to wait for um you know one of your marquee players in the form of novak djokovic to get defaulted at a slam are you going to wait for a semi-final to end as it has in beijing this way like that sucks nobody wants the matches to end in controversy and bad behavior and booze um even if you're medvedev and you kind of like that sort of thing like He had to have been embarrassed, and I hope he was. Oh, God.
00:08:32
Speaker 1: He was embarrassed. His face was red, but not in the red way of like, I'm exhausted because this match is incredibly taxing on me. It was red because he was embarrassed. And I have said this. I really like Daniil. I think he's a great character. I think he's a great guy off the court, like all the things. he would have been highly embarrassed. And clearly this is literally minutes after the match that we're doing this, and I'm sure that he will be incredibly apologetic when he goes into press, if he goes into press. But that was a moment that, I don't know, there are teaching moments in a lot of ways that these players actually quickly, just like Denis Shakovalov, I guarantee you is not doing stuff like that anymore.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: No, he learned. He learned, and he has been a very, for the most part, very upstanding gentleman on the court and he doesn't fire off balls because that's the worst possible thing that can happen. But also, why take the chance? I don't know, like to vent your frustration to, you know, I mean, Daniel Medvedev also like a couple months ago, you might remember, whacked at one of the LED screens behind the at the court so much that it broke and they had to halt play so it's like guys look you're getting paid a lot of money to be there this isn't you know a challenger where they don't have running water for you and you're having to stay on somebody's floor this is a premier tournament this is a ton of paying guests Have you had to do that? I mean, plenty of people we know have, that's for sure. I've played challenger things where you're staying at a motel with eight other people in the room and, you know, you're trying to get as much free breakfast as you possibly can. So, you know, it's not.
00:10:07
Speaker 1: You take the rolls at breakfast, take the rolls, put some ham and cheese in it.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. We all used to do. We used to make peanut butter banana sandwiches from the extra rolls and the extra things of peanut butter. Like, you know, if you're Daniil Medvedev, like to say that you know better is quite an understatement. He has kids. Novak Djokovic has kids. I didn't watch the match this morning. You did and texted me, oh my God, because I was on a call. And I would imagine it's possible their kids are there. They don't want to watch their dad get defaulted for bad behavior. That sucks. That's like watching your parents get drunk and like fall down. That's just embarrassing. So yes, I hope the statement that comes is which I know, you know, you're right in saying that it will be. I don't think Danilo Medvedev's a bad guy. But also, just make a rule. That's it. Make a rule.
00:10:51
Speaker 1: Just make a rule. Just make a blanket rule and stop this nonsense of, well, the person caught it. Same with Tsitsipas at Wimbledon when he hit that ball in the stands and it just missed somebody in the stands. I don't believe he even got a warning on that.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: I mean, Novak Shokovic, the irony of Novak getting defaulted at the US Open is that he did it so often. Yeah. and would get questions about it in press and say, hey, listen, you almost hit somebody. And he'd be like, yeah, but I didn't. And who can forget when he was losing the Olympic semifinal in Tokyo in.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Front of nobody.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: And he chucked the racket into the seats. This is against Pablo Carina Busta, I think it was, and just chucked the racket right into the middle of the crowd. Obviously, he wouldn't have done that if there was somebody there, probably. But again, it's like, Why flirt with danger? I don't know. Can you vent your anger in another way? Yeah. Don't endanger spectators. But what an interesting Beijing tournament it has been.
00:11:50
Speaker 1: Oh, yes. It sure has. Because we started on Novak and his now undefeated matches here, it's going to be very hard to beat in the final. But I want to give massive kudos to Alex Dimonor because Alex Dimonor, is in the final. And he beat a compromised Herbie Kirk catch, which is a really terrific win. This is a, you know, China tends to be a very sort of faster court. And so that does help Herbie. It does also help Alex Dimenor. Alex Dimenor does play very well on a fast court. But I'm just, I'm very, very, very happy to see this. And maybe that win against Zverev in, you know, the Who Cares Labor Cup actually helped him. give him a tremendous amount of confidence in these types of matches and in these tournaments again, because he has very much struggled, you know, quote unquote, for a player that did very, very well last year. He has been struggling this year. He's talked about how unhappy he's been on the tennis court. He's obviously incredibly happy off the court. He got married this year. He's happy in his off court life. But he has struggled this year in his tennis for his standards. This is a guy that's a perennial quarterfinalist at Grand Slams. He wasn't even getting to third rounds. So I'm just really happy to see a guy of his quality at a Masters 1000 make it through to a final. Is he going to win the final? I will say no, because Novak is just looking like he's on a mission and he loves playing in Beijing. And having not gone three sets certainly helps him save a little bit of energy. Um, but the guys, uh, it's, it's really nice to see, uh, those two guys in the final, of course. And then, you know, when we're talking about, uh, the guys in Tokyo, for example, then we've got Alcaraz in the final. Uh, he was, he was struggling a little bit against Munar, lost the first set. Um, Munar comes through qualifying, maybe ran out of legs, six love in the third, in six one in the third set. and Lehetschka. So I think these two finals are going to be really interesting. It's good to see quality tennis players in the finals having to play against each other and nice to see Alcaraz. I would venture to say it's not going to be that easy. Lehetschka, as you know, is a very dangerous player, especially on a fast court. And this is a fast court. Tokyo is always fast. So it's going to be interesting to see if Alcaraz and Djokovic can get it done in the final against two very quality opponents.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: I was really happy with the Tokyo appearance of Arthur Fies. Obviously, he went out in the quarters to Valentin Vachereau, who did very well in Asia this time last year. But I was really excited that he is healthy. He looks like he's playing confidently. I would wager a fast hardcourt is probably not his preferred surface. So the fact that he made it quarters and lost in three was, you know, a good showing. But I do have a question for you, Renee. Why are both of these finals going to be played on a Tuesday?
00:14:48
Speaker 1: I mean, you're asking the wrong person on this.
00:14:51
Speaker 2: But it's so strange to me that we wouldn't have the finals on a Sunday. What is going on with the scheduling that we have the finals happening on a Tuesday?
00:15:00
Speaker 1: I mean, you're asking the wrong person. I mean, we've had this conversation for forever. It's ridiculous. I don't know. Did all of a sudden the TV ratings get better on a Tuesday than on a Sunday? Did the ticket sales become better on a Tuesday than on a Sunday? Especially in China, like those people work, man. Like, what are we doing here? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Um, these 10 day events with the women, the men. And I do want to say the men's is a 500, not a 1,000, before everyone goes at me that I said Alex was in the final of a 1,000. It is a 500. But it's like I don't really understand why we are playing a final on a Tuesday, Caitlin, so I can't answer those questions for you. Do you have any idea?
00:15:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, and I'm willing to blame the 10-day structure of some of these tournaments messing up the schedule, even if this isn't one of them. But it's very, very strange. And I am comforted to learn that the China Open, which is currently underway on the women's side, The final will, in fact, be on Sunday. I'm just used to, as somebody who works during the week but tries to catch tennis whenever I can, when I turn on the weekend tennis, I want to see the finals. I can't be alone in that, I don't think, even if the time zone means that it's 12 or 13 hours ahead.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: It's like the men are starting the tournament earlier, then the women kind of come in, so maybe that's why. But your guess is as good as mine, my friend. And especially considering how good that match was this morning. on a Monday morning. And that means like they're playing on a Sunday there. I don't know. It does. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know the answer to that, but the ATP might anyway. All right, let's take a quick break and then let's come back and talk about the ladies. Okay, so we did mention all the guys previous to this, and probably it's going to certainly be a story that Mr. Medvedev's going to have to talk about or own for the rest of his life, is that he got defotted by hitting a spectator in the face. It just gets worse and worse the more I think about it. It happened so shortly ago for me, watching it in person, or not in person, but on TV. But let's get to the women. Sabalenka, Rabakhina, boom, see you later, out of there. I mean, Rabakhina, I don't know what was going on there. Just mistakes. Apparently she wasn't feeling well. I don't know. It's just wild. Wild to see her lose her very first match after becoming the world number one and, of course, the reigning now U.S. Open champion. Crazy.
00:17:49
Speaker 2: I mean, the rumor is she's hurt and or sick. I don't know because she didn't pull out or make any excuses in press, but it does seem like maybe a good time to take a break is right after you've won the U.S. Open and not go straight to, you know, very intense tournaments in Asia.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:18:11
Speaker 2: She looked off. She looked rattled. It didn't look like herself, that's for sure. But at least she lost in three sets. Savalenka went down to... Bartunkova, kind of like a.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: Who we love. Bartunkova is like a mini Mokhova.
00:18:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's fun and she's got variety. Yeah, I'm more concerned with the Savalenka stocks because, like I said, I think she's... trending downward. Whereas to me, Rabakina, it's like, well, okay, but I'm willing to give her an early exit at a tournament that's sort of an emotional letdown after winning a giant, giant title and having otherwise, you know, been trending upwards. So to me, Sabalenka is more troubling, I have to say.
00:18:55
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, big time. I mean, that's just getting.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That's a winnable match.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: A very, very winnable.
00:19:01
Speaker 2: With not really showing up and not having any solutions. Whereas to me, Rabakina just looked like she kind of was just out of sorts in a way that, you know, give her a week off and some biscuits and she'll be back in there. You know what I mean? I don't know what they eat in Kazakhstan.
00:19:19
Speaker 1: Shararevo, you know, the player that beat her, is a very similar player, I felt like, and looks very similar to Paula Bedosa.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: And practices and trains in Spain. Um, and I thought, wow, she reminds me a lot of Badoza, just big player, went after it, served awesome, served a lot to the body of serve that not many players use enough. I think it's a serve that needs to be hit against Rabakina if you want to beat her. because if she gets the ball in her wingspan out there, good luck. And again, it's sort of like a serve that is underutilized. I think Sabalenka did not serve it enough at the US Open. But But yeah, I mean, Sabalenka in getting pissy pants as well, like she has lost, like her nerve endings are gone. Like she's just lit them on fire and she doesn't know how to bring it back anymore at all. And her confidence level is so low. She doesn't show it in a way like some people would like, you know, like kind of pouty, like I just, I don't know what to do kind of thing. Like when Coco gets upset, you see her sort of like, look, my forehand or whatever. I'm missing this. Sabalanka just gets angry and just looks at her player's box like, fix this for me. And you're just like, look, it's not possible. It's a different sort of anger or a different sort of level of frustration that she is showing on the court. And she has no game plan B. The difference with Coco is she could be playing 20 double faults, not making a forehand. And she will try and find a way and play ugly. I mean, she's the epitome of Brad Gilbert's book of winning ugly. And so she will try and figure out a way to win, even if her game A isn't there. She'll go to game plan D, C, D. you know, C, D, E, F, if she needs to. But Sabalenka doesn't have game plan B at all.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: No, and what's so interesting to me is Sabalenka is a player in the past who I would consider, like, pretty well coached. I don't know if you agree with that, but, like, sort of famously, she's worked through some pretty big... She's worked through, you know, what we used to talk about was her sort of semifinal curse. She's worked through, obviously, the serve, which, you know, that's some real mental fortitude. And I think for that reason, you know, she's still dynamic and fun to watch. And she's a fun world number one. You know, obviously, she's not the world number one anyway right now. But, like, I get why the aura of Sabalenka is fun and fun to root for. And I've been a fan of... More than I haven't. But I think what's happening right now is so confusing because she hasn't made a coaching change. She hasn't materially changed her approach to the game as far as I can tell. But it feels like the fuse is short. The belief is not there. As much as she's, you know, enjoying the limelight off court, it seems like it's inversely impacted her ability to enjoy the very... ever-present, you know, sort of turmoil on the court. Like, being a professional tennis player means you are out of the frying pan and into the fire in every single match, right? Like, we were just talking about.
00:22:26
Speaker 1: Especially when you're the top players in the world.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: And when you're the top player, you want to be in the mix. You want to be at these 500 and 1,000s and slam tournaments where there's not an easy round and everybody is going to be bringing their game to you. And I think... Something about her seems to have stopped enjoying that. And that's why, for me, the loss of Verbachina looks different than the loss of Sabalenka. Because the loss of Verbachina, to me, just looked like fatigue and kind of not maybe able to bring her best, but kind of still... trying. Whereas Sabalenka, to me, feels like she's out of sorts. That's why I think the finals that obviously are the next and last real major of the year, these WTA and ATP finals that are scheduled for early November and just over a month, that's where it gets really interesting, which is how are these players going to end the year? How are they going to pull together One last effort right before they go on to the offseason. And what was interesting, I think, about this season, as it now is towards the very end, is that Rabakina really got her entire energy, her entire bounce, her entire, you would argue, strength and confidence from what happened a year ago, barely getting into the WTA finals, ended up getting in by the skin of her teeth and then winning it, and then coming into this season, I think, really... positive with momentum. The opposite seems to have happened with Sabalenka. Whatever she lost the plot last year, and with the exception of obviously winning the Sunshine Double, which is a huge achievement, not to take anything from her, she's had kind of a downward tilt to the season. So I'm curious what these last couple of tournaments will look like for her. And I think it sets up the drama of the finals pretty nicely. All I know is if I'm Jess Pagula, I'm like... yes, it's my time to shine. Rabakini's out. Sabalenka's out. Like, let's go. She's not the only one who can win the tournament, obviously, but it does feel like those two have really stood in her way in the last couple of seasons for getting the, you know, getting hardware at the end of these tournaments.
00:24:37
Speaker 1: Well, talking about the WTA finals, you know, I'm looking at the race and the top eight are pretty solidly the top eight, right? The eighth ranked player right now is Karolina Mukhova. She is currently at 4,683 points. So for everyone at home, this time, and I can tell you from my own history in trying to make the WTA finals to coaching someone who's trying to make the WTA finals in Karolina Pliskova a couple of times, every win right now is so vital for all of these players. And it literally can come down to the last tournament of the year, which is it may come down to the last tournament of the year with the last spot because I would argue that Marta Kostiuk is 10th right now at 4,040 points. So she's 640 points away. That's a lot, right? That's winning a 500 or getting to the final of this WTA 1000, for example. Someone who's hanging on by the skin of her teeth is Iga Siontek. Now, speaking of hanging on by the skin of your teeth, Because this would have been likes out, goodbye, no chance to make the WTA finals, I believe. I mean, she could have maybe won, you know, a tournament or two leading into the WTA finals still. But this tournament is a 1,000, right? So to win this tournament, you get 1,000 points, okay? So unless the person that's just in front of you maybe makes the final and keeps you away, keeps you at bay, which is Carolina Mohova, and they're both in the tournament still, Iga Svantec was down a set and 5-2. to Donna Vekic and comes back and wins the match. If there is a match that she can look back, if she wins the WTF final, it will certainly be this one. And every person that was, and believe me when I tell you, Karolina Muhova would have been in the locker room cheering for Donna Vekic. Like, come on, please. Like, guarantee, because that would have probably guaranteed that Karolina Muhova and Elena Svetlana would I think Noskova's already in because she won Wimbledon. But those two players, Svitolina and Mukova, would have been probably sitting next to each other in the locker room pulling so hard for Donovec into the veteran to pull that match out.
00:26:49
Speaker 2: Just to get somebody else out of the way.
00:26:52
Speaker 1: The pressure is back on them to continue to keep winning because if they keep winning, they will stay ahead of Iga by about 500 points. But right now, if Iga wins the tournament, she will go about the same points tally as them unless, of course, they win the tournament. So, There's so much still on the line for all of these players. It's ridiculous. And I can tell you right now, the fact that Iga won that tournament, I'm like, she has to just go, you know what? Fuck this. Like, I have to win the tournament now. Like, how can you come back from a set in 5-2 against a player like Donna Vekic, who is, you know, a Very, very good player, and who's beaten a lot of very good players.
00:27:30
Speaker 2: Solid player. Yeah, well, you know, Iga's... It's not going to get easier from this point on. Iga's really going to have to put on the jets, which we've seen her do in the past. And she's got Iva Jovic, yes, next. You know, she's currently seeded 10. She's obviously made her case for being in the top echelon of players. Mukova's still in it. Osaka's still in it. Noskova, as you said, already in the finals is in it. Bartunkova's obviously in it, having beaten Sabalenka. Spitaline is in it and my girl Chin Wen at home. Oh, Chin Wen came through. Having just launched a new pair of Nikes. Chin Wen came through.
00:28:05
Speaker 1: And I tell you what, I don't know if you follow the stocks, Caitlin. I do. Nike stock is not doing well. It is down 50%. And the reason I'm telling you this, and I know this because I watch a lot of CNBC, is is that they have dropped off like 23% or something like this in China. Their sales in the U.S. are very good still. But in China, it's dropped off over 20%. Now, you don't think that this release of this shoe by Chin Win, and yes, it is Chin Win.
00:28:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. That was so good.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: Many times.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Finally, now everybody's on board with Chin Win.
00:28:41
Speaker 1: I've been on board.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: No, no, you're not the problem.
00:28:45
Speaker 1: I have been on board for years. I've had arguments about this literally in production meetings with my fellow commentators and then wanting to call her a kinwin because she says it on the WTA website. I'm like, she says it on the WTA website just because she's pointed that out in that thing that you reposted because Americans are too don't want to say the word because i know i'm going to get hate for it but you know a too stubborn let's just put it that way to recognize that it is chinwin okay so anyway that is going to help i think that's a big play for nike and that's a necessity for them to improve their sales in in china and maybe and maybe i'm not giving stock advice but maybe it's time.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: To buy oh interesting well i would check in.
00:29:27
Speaker 1: We'll check in on that stock in a year how about that If I were.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's sort of interesting that they have a couple of really interesting young men, not obviously anywhere near as good as Qin Wen is, but they've got this really interesting guy from Xinjiang province who went down to Novak Djokovic in three sets, got a set off Novak, Yunchakote Bu. He just goes by Bu. He's from, like I said, Xinjiang province. He's from, like, truly, like, the... nomadic people in the West. Like, super, super crazy story that he's even playing tennis, much less playing it at a super high professional level. Obviously, they've got Jerry Shang, who we've spoken about. And they have my guy, ZZ, Zhizhen Zhang, who's about as cute as can be. Now, is he going to get to the finals of any of these tournaments?
00:30:15
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:30:15
Speaker 2: None of these guys seem to be that good. But if I'm Nike and I want some interesting stories and some interesting athletes to get behind in the tennis space, you've got a cool assortment. So, yeah, let's hope Chin Wen does some damage at this tournament, at least for the ladies. Now, having gotten through that Bushkovo match, I don't know. Like I said, I think Chin Wen's on the upswing.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: I think she can get to the finals of this tournament.
00:30:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker 1: I think she's playing well enough. She's going to have the support. They are rabid fans in China. They love their players. And they really, I've played there against Chinese players and it's not fun. And, you know, look, there's obviously a lot of players in her half of the draw in Coco Gauff, blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of great players still left. But if she were to make the final, boy, oh boy, that would be humongous for the tournament. And it would frankly be humongous for the WTA. And God knows they need all the help they can get. And we'll get to the reasons of that in our questions that have been sent in to us today. But anyway, it's a super exciting tournament still. There's so many great matches, Muhova, Osaka, like all the terrific matches that we always look forward to when it comes to the women's draw. Depth is incredible. Sharieva, good to see her continue her win. She beat Kartel today, and after beating Rubakina, we like to see them continue, right? Jovic was comfortable in her win today. Svitolina over Sakari, and of course that comeback was unbelievable from Igor Shiontek today. And Bencic going down to Ann Lee. Look, Ann Lee is sort of like, you know, quietly having a great year. And that is a big win for the 21st seed. And Mertens just scraped it through against Ostapenko in her win today as well. So, look, there's been a lot of great matches on the women's side. And I don't know. I'm just looking forward to who comes through because there is an opportunity, of course, with Sabalenka. and Rabakhina out of the tournament. Who do you think ends up winning this? Because when we do talk about this, we will be next week, we will be talking about the winner of the tournament. You just think JPEG.
00:32:18
Speaker 2: Honestly, I kind of feel like this might be Makova's time to shine. I feel like she's got a not top form Naomi Osaka, but a better Naomi Osaka now than she would have had six months ago. I kind of like Makova. I feel like Makova's stock is always high in my book when she's healthy and playing confidently. Who among us didn't see her hitting a 360 degree off the shoelaces pickup to then hit a beautiful fading out wide cross court uh, shot of the tournament over the weekend. So for me, I'm, I'm always a Carolina Mujova fan and I hope she, uh, has some success on this Asia swing. And I, and I hope it goes into the finals, but I don't know if she's my pick. You know, I have a hard time disaggregating who I want to win and who I think will win. Um, you know, because then it always ends up being like, at least in Mertens. And I'm like, Oh, I wouldn't have picked her for anything. And here we are, you know?
00:33:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because you know, Pagola is not even playing this tournament.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: So it's definitely not going to be Pagola, but I think in terms of, uh, Watching the two best players in the world in Sabalenka and Rabakina struggling a little bit.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: Capitulate a little bit, yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker 2: This is like when you're number three is number four. This is when you really get people rubbing their hands together and salivating a little bit.
00:33:37
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: But in the end, you have to beat them in the majors, you know. And look, JPEG through the years has won a lot of big tournaments. And she's beaten, surprisingly, the big players when she wins those tournaments, whether it be Iga, whether it be Sabalenka, whether it be Robachina, but she can't beat them at the majors. And I don't know what it is. That's the only question that she can answer. She chose not to play this tournament. And, you know, just going back on that, I think, you know, one question that I know that I've spoken to Sam Stoser about this when she won the US Open, she said the mistake she made was playing immediately after in Asia. She wished she'd taken the time. She wished she'd sort of taken the time to sort of enjoy the win a little bit and also not have the pressure on her to immediately, you know, expect, you know, the expectation then was to win immediately after the U S open win and win another tournament. And, and it was just too much for her. And so I think you're right. I think that if Rebecca, you know, certainly if she's a little ill or not feeling good, like you don't need to play. Serena didn't play Asia for like the last, five to seven years of her career. She was just like, I'm done.
00:34:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: And I think that's a great... Agree.
00:34:44
Speaker 2: Serena certainly set the playbook for protecting your body and protecting your mental health. And I think in the case of Rabakina, it might be a little bit of both. In the case of Sabalek, it's maybe the latter. And I think what the players owe themselves in a world where the tournaments, the tours, the governing bodies aren't necessarily looking out for them, until they are, Until the tours, with complete buy-in, get it together and decide that player bodily safety, health, mental, parental, abusive policies are all going to be aimed at making this as productive a workplace as it can be, the players can and should be like, yo, I'm going to just do what I need to do. And if that means a fine or if that means skipping a chunk or not chasing points, then like, I guess that's the trade-off. But like, to me, it's kind of like a toxic workplace where they tell you that every day is an emergency and every weekend you need to come into the office. You know, after a couple of years of that, you might be like, you know what, I'm just going to like take a couple of random Wednesday, Thursday Fridays off and just turn my phone off because this isn't a productive way for me to be Spending my time, I'm burnt out. And I think these guys, year after year after year, have raised concerns, have been participating on the Players Council. Speaking of Jess Pagula, she's part of this new SLAM Council where they're theoretically going to help negotiate directly with the SLAMs for player welfare. Like, until tennis protects tennis players, tennis players should do whatever the F they want. Yeah.
00:36:19
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. They are changing some of the rules next year of not having to play, you know, all the 1,000s, all the blah, blah, blah. So anyway, we'll... We'll see how that develops next year, but there certainly needs to be, at least it sounds like a little more input from the players as they should.
00:36:32
Speaker 3: All right, let's take a quick break and get to your questions after this. Okay, so.
00:36:51
Speaker 1: Let's get into the questions.
00:36:53
Speaker 2: I love the questions. I love the questions so much. Thank you so much for writing us some questions.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: So Johnny on the spot, everybody, because we did get seven questions already in an hour. So thanks, listeners. I hope you love this part of our pod because we do love and I have people all the time on the streets in New York going, love your pod. So for anybody that does come up to me or Caitlin on the street, we appreciate it. And thank you for that.
00:37:17
Speaker 2: All right.
00:37:17
Speaker 1: So Let's get to the questions. Do you want to start or would you like me to start?
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Why don't you start?
00:37:22
Speaker 1: All right. Jennifer Hart asked, do you think Serena would have broken the Grand Slam record if the women played best of five? I think so due to her athleticism and her ability to increase her level during a match. Ooh, that's a really great question. I don't know. I mean, it's really hard to say because you just don't know, right? I mean, you just don't know. Now, would we have had less men? of the same men winning Grand Slams? If we'd been best of three instead of best of five, yes. I would say we would have had more of variation. We've even had it recently where I think it was Zverev that said something along the lines of, well, best of three is very different to best of five in slams. And it's a different mentality. And even players saying, I got Alcaraz at major level. I would say on the guy's side, you know, when it's best of three, they mentally sort of tap out a little bit because it just doesn't, I don't say it doesn't mean as much to them, but at a major level, a Grand Slam level, you care more. Like you dig deeper more. And yes, I would say that there are players that would win over five sets more than some in best of three, but you just never know. But I would probably say yes. I'd probably say Serena probably would win more if it was best of five.
00:38:40
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, look at when she would lose. A lot of times it's because she got a slow start, or a lot of times it would be because a player kind of snuck up on her. I'm thinking about some of the matches she played, especially towards the back half of her career. Naomi Osaka, Simona Halep at that Wimbledon, Angie Kerber.
00:39:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, the nerves got her in a lot of those. I mean, look at when she was going for the calendar Grand Slam. She won two Serena Slams, where she held all four twice. Um, but going for that calendar grand slam, I'll never forget that losing to Roberta Vinci. Like this is a player that didn't get more than four games in a set against Serena in the past. And Serena beat her two weeks earlier in Canada. I believe it was like six, four, six, two, but Serena was so on edge even in that match. And then Serena went to the US Open and played Vinci again, like two weeks later, and just played horribly and was so nervous and knew she was going for the calendar Grand Slam. And no offense to Vinci and no offense to Flavia Panetta.
00:39:39
Speaker 2: Who ended up winning the tournament. Yeah, Flavia Panetta won the tournament the next match. They're great players. But it was a level below what we're used to seeing for Serena. And I think had she gotten... a little bit of the spilkies out a little bit over the course of five sets. Yeah, spilkies is a British word for, like, you know, your nervous energy. I think she would have probably won a couple more. Not 20 more, but I think she would have won maybe three or four more, for sure.
00:40:07
Speaker 1: Jennifer, that was a great question, and thank.
00:40:09
Speaker 2: You for it. Yeah, good question. It also allowed us to revisit some of our favorite Serena Slam finals. Okay, second question, Nebby. In your opinion, what's one change the WTA needs that isn't getting talked about enough? Well, I mean, listen to the podcast. I mean, we talk about this all the time. I hope the WTA gets itself financially viable, which maybe it has now with this move to Charlotte for the finals next year, and they're moving their HQ to Charlotte, which also to me indicates that it's more than just a tournament they're moving HQ for.
00:40:39
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question?
00:40:41
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:40:41
Speaker 1: Maybe we should have looked this up. What are the North Carolina tax laws like compared to Florida?
00:40:46
Speaker 2: There is more tax in North Carolina than Florida, but also there are a number of moneyed individuals, both state and city, who are particularly incentivized to make the state a sporting hub. The taxes across the board can't get much lower than in Florida. But I think being marooned in a beautiful, nice city of St. Pete, but not one that is necessarily central to a lot of business dealings or other hubs for other major companies, Charlotte has Bank of America. Charlotte has a number of major sports teams. It's a little bit more of a big city. And it's obviously on the coast, which I think matters a little bit. We'll see. I mean, to me, the number of changes that WTA seems to be implementing under WTA acting CEO Valerie Camillo are sort of positive. There's some new changes. sponsorship news, there's some new structure news. I want to see them market and sell the sport as an experience that is on par with the WNBA and women's soccer and other sports that it started out leagues ahead of and is now leagues behind.
00:41:47
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
00:41:48
Speaker 2: That would be my hope. There's a lot that goes into that, but one change is that the WTA doesn't seem to know how to market, but before it even gets there, they need to figure out how to be financially responsible and figure out how to be a feasible marketer. organization.
00:42:02
Speaker 1: Well, the next question, as you see from Marisa Bell de Leon, do you have any verified information regarding the WTA bankruptcy allegations?
00:42:11
Speaker 2: We are reporting out a story right now. Racket Magazine is reporting out a story right now with the WTA with regards to the Simon Camber's telegraph piece. He reported in the telegraph a couple of weeks ago that the WTA was on track to be bankrupt by the end of next year. And the reason is because they utilized a lot of their investment from CVC, from the Saudi Tennis Federation, and others to push the prize money at tournaments that were not priorly awarding it to be equal to the men's. The reporting doesn't seem to have gotten much pushback from the WTA, although they haven't come out and made an official statement about it. They just came out and said that their finals were going to be next year in Charlotte and their HQ was moving to Charlotte, like I just was talking about. My conversations with people at the WTA would indicate to me that I don't know that the reporting was wrong, but I definitely know that there's some moves being made on the inside that hopefully with our reporting we'll be able to bring to light. I don't know if that's true that they've been using the money to pay out prize money, which on its face sounds like they should be doing it, but in reality reflects a really easy way to run through a lot of money very quickly because it doesn't get reinvested in the organization.
00:43:29
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't they state that that's what they wanted to do with it? And I think for me, when I heard that originally, I was like, wait, isn't this kicking the can down the road? This is not solving the problem. And the problem where the WTA faces, as opposed to the ATP, is that their TV rights are terrible comparative to the men. And so organizations like sporting organizations make a lot of money from their selling their TV rights. And, you know, the men are signing deals left and right. They recently just signed another one in the last week. So I just feel like the sponsorship they need to get right. I'm certainly... They need to trim the fat, as we say, as well. And they need more money coming into the organization. Like you said, it is coming into the WNBA. The unrivals of the world are getting money left and right as well. They're now worth X amount of dollars. These WNBA franchises are starting to be worth over $ 200 million. It's insane. So it's like, yeah, the WTA need to figure out a way to use their players and utilize their players as a partner.
00:44:33
Speaker 2: I don't know that it's just the players. I think a lot of it is the product of women's tennis. The product of women's tennis is fantastic. And I think the strategy in years past has been to sell sponsorships around one or two stars. And that's great. Serena sells a lot of sponsorships. Maria Sharapova famously sold a lot of sponsorships. Serena Sabalenka is, like we've been talking about, a charismatic top player who can garner a lot of attention. But that doesn't necessarily translate into ticket sales. It doesn't translate into higher negotiable rights value for broadcast. And most importantly, it hasn't resulted in a financially stable organization, it would appear. So for me, it's way less about the players and way more about figuring out how to market women's tennis as a great product. We know that there's a huge demand we know that there's a huge audience for it. How they have not created valuable assets out of that is really a staggering problem of leadership. And I won't put it at the feet of the new leadership. I will put it at the feet of the old leadership. And it's frankly a problem with the board. WTA Ventures is not new. They've been created and tasked with the idea of marketing and monetizing the tour. They're now five years old. And I would argue that aside from a Mercedes-Benz partnership, which is a good one, they just announced a streaming partnership with a content partner in China. Okay. But that's not enough.
00:46:02
Speaker 1: Where's the others? Yeah, exactly.
00:46:03
Speaker 2: And that's, you know, these are short-term deals, especially the one I just mentioned in China. So to me, there's a lot of smart people on those boards with a lot of fancy titles getting a lot of money and a lot of fat at the organization. So... You know, if your comms department is 20 people across two different countries, but you're not able to sell the story of women's tennis, what's everybody doing? You know, so. So, yeah, we'll see. I'm very curious and I stay.
00:46:34
Speaker 1: Tuned for your.
00:46:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have a dog in this fight other than, you know, I want these.
00:46:38
Speaker 1: You want the best for the tour.
00:46:39
Speaker 2: To be to be healthy.
00:46:41
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. Dr. Sook, if the schedule is too hard on players' bodies, why World Team Tennis? Okay, well, I wanted to talk about this anyway because World Team Tennis is coming to New York for those in the area. It's also coming to Florida and it's also coming to Toronto. So, you know, go to worldteamtennis.com, check it out, search it on Google. Don't search it on ChatGPT because it uses way too much water and AI is going to ruin us. But I think that this is a different situation. Early December is players getting back into training and back into wanting to play some matches prior to going to Australia. Players will finish mid-November after the WTA or ATP finals. They may have even finished earlier, depending on if they make the WTA and ATP finals. This is a great way for them to have probably been back on the practice court maybe for a week to get some matches in and actually play You know, have a bit of fun. It's relaxed. There's no pressure on you because you're not trying to win points or blah, blah, blah. But world team tennis is stressful because you are playing for a team. But I think this is actually a different situation because early December is them getting back on the horse. It's getting back into practice mode and match mode to play a tournament in early January. So this is actually a good thing. Now, if they were playing this in the middle of November, I'd be like, huh? That's not great. You haven't given yourself any time off. So when I see these players playing exhibitions in late November, I'm thinking, meh. But I think this is actually a good time because, as I said, they'll be back about practicing for about a week at this point, and then they'll be straight into playing matches and then getting themselves ready mentally ready to go to Australia. So that's why I see no problem with World Team Tennis. And honestly, if you are in the areas of Toronto, New York, and Florida, it's going to be fun. So go watch it. If you've never seen World Team Tennis, it's going to be a load of fun. You've got music. It's a very different atmosphere. And for me, it was one of my favorites. I loved playing World Team Tennis, and it's a load of fun. This is the next question because you've got to go, Caitlin.
00:48:41
Speaker 2: This is our last question. Anne-Marie, do you think there will be a new Grand Slam champion next year? What do you think about that, Renee?
00:48:50
Speaker 1: Well, I still have hope that we can get Carolina Mohova over the line in some fashion. In Australia, look, this woman can play on every surface. I would love to see her win one next year. I did predict that Amanda Anisimova was going to win one, but sadly things went a little bit awry for her this year. She's taking time off at the end of the year, which I think is a smart thing. Eva Jovic is certainly a player to look out for, maybe at the French Open. Hard to really say. We still have hope for Kugula. On the men's side, I don't see anyone popping through, maybe a Ben Shelton, if possible. But on the women's side, hey, take your pick. Look inside the top 30, throw an arrow. One of them could do it. I think I'm interested to see if Noskova can get through and win this tournament. I think she's capable of doing it as well. That will send a very big sign for everyone that she ain't going away. This is a player that can potentially be number one in the world because she has all the strokes, all the game, all the mentality, all the things. And so, yeah, I honestly don't know who's going to... What about you? Anyone on the list?
00:49:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mokova is the one who came to mind as somebody I would love to see win a slam. I'm not sure... you know, given the amount of just incredible talent and depth on the women's tour, that that's possible. On the men's side, I see a Hodar happening before a, or maybe even an Alexander Blocks happening before a Ben Sheldon, which would continue the European, you know, domination. You know, what would be cool if it's like, I don't know, like Cruz Hewitt or some young Australian guy comes through and just lights the world on fire. I'm not saying it's impossible. Maybe Alex Diminar. Maybe Alex Diminar's time to shine.
00:50:33
Speaker 1: Alex Diminar has to get through a quarterfinal before he can start talking about winning it.
00:50:37
Speaker 2: Well, you said it, not me. But I'm rooting for.
00:50:40
Speaker 1: I mean that with all love.
00:50:41
Speaker 2: Team world. Come on, team world on the men's side. Team world. I like Europe a lot, but enough. Like, somebody. Let's get some.
00:50:50
Speaker 1: One thing I did realize is that Uzbekistan is in Asia, so... Oh, no, Kazakhstan, sorry. Rubakina would be team world for the women.
00:50:59
Speaker 2: Well, all the more reason to have an exhibition women's version.
00:51:04
Speaker 1: Of Labor Cup. What would you call it? Navratilova Cup? Graf Cup? Navratilova Cup.
00:51:08
Speaker 2: Salas Cup? I mean, just given how many checks there are, it feels like the Navratilova Cup is extremely, extremely. But like everything else, would we then put Chrissy involved, you know? Team Chrissy, Team Martina? Well, probably. Probably.
00:51:24
Speaker 1: Maybe call it something else cup and make them the two teams.
00:51:27
Speaker 2: They should be the two teams, yeah.
00:51:29
Speaker 1: They should be the two teams.
00:51:30
Speaker 2: Europe versus everybody else.
00:51:31
Speaker 1: Well, no.
00:51:32
Speaker 2: Well, because Martina's now American. Yeah, I'm not sure Martina wants to be associated with.
00:51:38
Speaker 1: She's good with it now.
00:51:39
Speaker 2: She's good with it now.
00:51:40
Speaker 1: They're not communists anymore, so she's good with it. On that note, Mike did write in about Zverev, about the Medvedev disqualifications. Why didn't they have a replay? Because they did that a million times with Djokovic. It's called cameras. If they didn't have the camera on it, you don't get it. So we didn't see the ball from what I know at the moment. But I can tell you, Mike, have no fear. Somebody would have had a camera of a phone or something. It will get out hitting the guy in the face. We don't need to see it. It happens. The guy went down like he'd been shot. So it's out there.
00:52:15
Speaker 3: Anyway.
00:52:17
Speaker 1: All right, on that note, everyone, thanks again for writing us in at such short notice. I really appreciate it. And Caitlin, thanks for joining me today.
00:52:24
Speaker 2: What a delight.
00:52:26
Speaker 1: What a delight.
Speaker 1: Well, g'day everybody and welcome to the Renee Slubs Tennis Podcast. We are coming to you live immediately after one of the big stories in tennis as of today. And that is the default. While in the middle of a match of Daniil Medvedev. Caitlin, before we even get to like all the tennis that we've seen over the last week and the upsets and the women going down like flies and all that sort of stuff. This tennis was unbelievable. Novak Djokovic, first of all, is turning back the clock. He is playing unbelievable tennis. He's not missing. He's back to like 10 years ago, Novak Djokovic. I don't know what it is in Beijing. You would know. You live there. But he plays, I would argue, the best tennis of his career in Beijing. He is undefeated there. He beats the newly crowned US Open in our buddy Zverev in an incredible three-set match. And then he goes out and this, it is a war of attrition. It was like turning back the time watching Medvedev and Djokovic play. 40 ball rallies, Novak's keeling over like he's dying as per usual. Medvedev's kind of paying him out for it and like pretending to double over himself after he loses a point as a joke. I mean, it is like drama filled. It's all the things you want from these two players, right? It was like they were both playing again at Grand Slam final. It was incredible tennis. I don't know how Medvedev didn't break him early in the second set. He had like 58 break points and then Novak breaks him and then it gets to 5-3 in the first set. Serving for the match, Novak Djokovic hits the ball past Medvedev, hits the back wall. Medvedev decides to whack it against the back wall, but the wall did not get in the way. A gentleman in the front rows, I did though, and it is game, set, and match. And you know Djokovic is down the other end going, well, I know the fate. I know the fate of what is about to happen to you, bro. And if it's not the fate that I'm expecting, I'm going to be pissed because we all remember the default at the US Open. And so it was inevitable that Mr. Lahani was going to get off the chair and say, well, sorry, bro, you're done. And that's what happened. And Novak's face, walking to shake his hand, was almost like, been there.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Sorry. Unbelievable.
00:02:38
Speaker 1: What the... You know what?
00:02:40
Speaker 2: I just have to say, I was literally having this conversation on Friday with a friend of mine who I play tennis with on occasion, Melissa. And we were talking about why the rule for defaulting doesn't happen automatically. Why doesn't it kick in automatically when... the players throw or hit a ball anywhere near a human being. It only triggers a response from the umpire if the ball or racket hits somebody. A line judge in the case of Novak Djokovic in that fateful US Open, I think it was a semifinal that you're talking about, obviously Medvedev, a crowd. Who can forget Shapovalov firing off a ball that hit the umpire in the face, breaking one of his bones. automatic thief, but only if it hits somebody. Whereas the amount of times we've seen players throw, kick, send brackets, balls, other equipment in harm's way towards people, to me, it's not... It shouldn't be what results. It should be the intent, which is to fire something off out of frustration. But yeah, what a nutso ending to the tournament. I mean, the only... Well, not an ending. Sorry, the only end to the match. What a strange way to end a semifinal. But, you know, as you said, Djokovic was already serving for it up a set and to have his, you know, to serve it out against Medvedev. I wish this was the Medvedev we'd seen at the U.S. Open. And I wish this was the Novak Djokovic we'd seen at the U.S. Open because you'll notice that Alex Varev can't beat anybody who is ranked higher than him.
00:04:21
Speaker 1: Once again.
00:04:22
Speaker 2: So it's hard to take the claims credibly that he is the best player in the world right now when he loses to Novak Djokovic, who is approximately 187 years old. But like you said, full credit to him. He's undefeated in Beijing. I have no idea what it is. Maybe he just likes Yang Ruochua, and he's eating his spicy lamb before every match. before he goes in and gets it done. Probably not.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Somehow I doubt that. Somehow I doubt that Novak's not doing that.
00:04:48
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure he's eating vegan. But yeah, what a nutso ending to this semifinal.
00:04:54
Speaker 1: I mean, Medvedev's face was just like, shit. You know, as a player, and yes, I want to go back to that because we talk about this and have talked about this ad nauseum. I have on this pod for sure. Anytime a racket leaves the court, which we saw this... was it Erlian, it was Altman, or I can't remember who it was, threw his racket on the ground, then kicked it. I think it was in Berlin or in Germany somewhere. Someone's going to tweet me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, but somewhere over there in Europe prior to the French Open, I believe, or Wimbledon, and kicks the racket and it goes into the crowd. And the umpire just goes, yep, that's fine. And I was so pissed about it because I'm like, are you joking me? They're Ducking and weaving out of the way of a tennis racket coming towards them as fans. Like, I'm sorry, unacceptable. I will stand 10 toes down on this. I definitely had my own little moments on the court. I would yell and scream. I would get upset. I know what it feels like to be an emotional tennis player. I am not an Emma Navarro. I am not a Jessica Bagula. Definitely more along the Sabalenka train.
00:06:05
Speaker 3: And.
00:06:06
Speaker 1: But I would never do that. I would never throw my racket to the point where I would lose control into the crowd. I don't understand why every single umpire doesn't make this a blanket rule.
00:06:17
Speaker 2: I don't care.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: I've seen Sitsipas hit balls into the crowd. I've told you the story where the umpire actually said to me, or the referee, even worse, the referee who could come on the court and default him immediately said, ah, he caught the ball.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: Oh, what?
00:06:30
Speaker 1: The guy caught the ball, none of that should matter. If you ding a ball out of the stands and it goes anywhere near the crowd, okay, there's a blanket, there's a little bit ambiguity. What if it goes over the stands and goes out? I don't care. I think we need to do something where if you hit a ball that leaves the tennis court and it goes in the vicinity of anywhere near the crowd or your racket, you should be defaulted immediately. It's the only way to stop it. It's like, You see sports around the world. I've seen rugby. I watch rugby a lot, right? And I see these guys hit each other so hard, and they want to pummel each other. And then the little referee will blow the whistle and bring these two men together and say, stop it, stop it, and that's enough. And you see them nod their heads like they're 12-year-old schoolboys. It's like because those are the rules. It's the same in basketball. You can't touch an umpire. You can't yell at an umpire. You can't say something to a referee, or they'll, like, give you a tech foul. You could be teched out of there in the game in two seconds. Like we need to do something better in tennis where it becomes a blanket statement. If you hit a ball that leaves the tennis court, even if it's just unlucky, too bad. You have the control of doing that. And that's why we've had arguments about this with Novak fans, you know, like he shouldn't have been default. Yes, he should have. And just like today, he should have been defaulted immediately. Let's not have this referee come out in the court and go, did you mean it? I don't care. You hit somebody in the face. It's just blanket. Be done. So yes, I think your conversation with your friend about it today was a perfect example.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: Why don't we have that rule? It's so dumb. So much of... rulemaking is about taking preventive measures are you going to wait for somebody like an umpire to get their face broken are you going to wait for um you know one of your marquee players in the form of novak djokovic to get defaulted at a slam are you going to wait for a semi-final to end as it has in beijing this way like that sucks nobody wants the matches to end in controversy and bad behavior and booze um even if you're medvedev and you kind of like that sort of thing like He had to have been embarrassed, and I hope he was. Oh, God.
00:08:32
Speaker 1: He was embarrassed. His face was red, but not in the red way of like, I'm exhausted because this match is incredibly taxing on me. It was red because he was embarrassed. And I have said this. I really like Daniil. I think he's a great character. I think he's a great guy off the court, like all the things. he would have been highly embarrassed. And clearly this is literally minutes after the match that we're doing this, and I'm sure that he will be incredibly apologetic when he goes into press, if he goes into press. But that was a moment that, I don't know, there are teaching moments in a lot of ways that these players actually quickly, just like Denis Shakovalov, I guarantee you is not doing stuff like that anymore.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: No, he learned. He learned, and he has been a very, for the most part, very upstanding gentleman on the court and he doesn't fire off balls because that's the worst possible thing that can happen. But also, why take the chance? I don't know, like to vent your frustration to, you know, I mean, Daniel Medvedev also like a couple months ago, you might remember, whacked at one of the LED screens behind the at the court so much that it broke and they had to halt play so it's like guys look you're getting paid a lot of money to be there this isn't you know a challenger where they don't have running water for you and you're having to stay on somebody's floor this is a premier tournament this is a ton of paying guests Have you had to do that? I mean, plenty of people we know have, that's for sure. I've played challenger things where you're staying at a motel with eight other people in the room and, you know, you're trying to get as much free breakfast as you possibly can. So, you know, it's not.
00:10:07
Speaker 1: You take the rolls at breakfast, take the rolls, put some ham and cheese in it.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. We all used to do. We used to make peanut butter banana sandwiches from the extra rolls and the extra things of peanut butter. Like, you know, if you're Daniil Medvedev, like to say that you know better is quite an understatement. He has kids. Novak Djokovic has kids. I didn't watch the match this morning. You did and texted me, oh my God, because I was on a call. And I would imagine it's possible their kids are there. They don't want to watch their dad get defaulted for bad behavior. That sucks. That's like watching your parents get drunk and like fall down. That's just embarrassing. So yes, I hope the statement that comes is which I know, you know, you're right in saying that it will be. I don't think Danilo Medvedev's a bad guy. But also, just make a rule. That's it. Make a rule.
00:10:51
Speaker 1: Just make a rule. Just make a blanket rule and stop this nonsense of, well, the person caught it. Same with Tsitsipas at Wimbledon when he hit that ball in the stands and it just missed somebody in the stands. I don't believe he even got a warning on that.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: I mean, Novak Shokovic, the irony of Novak getting defaulted at the US Open is that he did it so often. Yeah. and would get questions about it in press and say, hey, listen, you almost hit somebody. And he'd be like, yeah, but I didn't. And who can forget when he was losing the Olympic semifinal in Tokyo in.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Front of nobody.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: And he chucked the racket into the seats. This is against Pablo Carina Busta, I think it was, and just chucked the racket right into the middle of the crowd. Obviously, he wouldn't have done that if there was somebody there, probably. But again, it's like, Why flirt with danger? I don't know. Can you vent your anger in another way? Yeah. Don't endanger spectators. But what an interesting Beijing tournament it has been.
00:11:50
Speaker 1: Oh, yes. It sure has. Because we started on Novak and his now undefeated matches here, it's going to be very hard to beat in the final. But I want to give massive kudos to Alex Dimonor because Alex Dimonor, is in the final. And he beat a compromised Herbie Kirk catch, which is a really terrific win. This is a, you know, China tends to be a very sort of faster court. And so that does help Herbie. It does also help Alex Dimenor. Alex Dimenor does play very well on a fast court. But I'm just, I'm very, very, very happy to see this. And maybe that win against Zverev in, you know, the Who Cares Labor Cup actually helped him. give him a tremendous amount of confidence in these types of matches and in these tournaments again, because he has very much struggled, you know, quote unquote, for a player that did very, very well last year. He has been struggling this year. He's talked about how unhappy he's been on the tennis court. He's obviously incredibly happy off the court. He got married this year. He's happy in his off court life. But he has struggled this year in his tennis for his standards. This is a guy that's a perennial quarterfinalist at Grand Slams. He wasn't even getting to third rounds. So I'm just really happy to see a guy of his quality at a Masters 1000 make it through to a final. Is he going to win the final? I will say no, because Novak is just looking like he's on a mission and he loves playing in Beijing. And having not gone three sets certainly helps him save a little bit of energy. Um, but the guys, uh, it's, it's really nice to see, uh, those two guys in the final, of course. And then, you know, when we're talking about, uh, the guys in Tokyo, for example, then we've got Alcaraz in the final. Uh, he was, he was struggling a little bit against Munar, lost the first set. Um, Munar comes through qualifying, maybe ran out of legs, six love in the third, in six one in the third set. and Lehetschka. So I think these two finals are going to be really interesting. It's good to see quality tennis players in the finals having to play against each other and nice to see Alcaraz. I would venture to say it's not going to be that easy. Lehetschka, as you know, is a very dangerous player, especially on a fast court. And this is a fast court. Tokyo is always fast. So it's going to be interesting to see if Alcaraz and Djokovic can get it done in the final against two very quality opponents.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: I was really happy with the Tokyo appearance of Arthur Fies. Obviously, he went out in the quarters to Valentin Vachereau, who did very well in Asia this time last year. But I was really excited that he is healthy. He looks like he's playing confidently. I would wager a fast hardcourt is probably not his preferred surface. So the fact that he made it quarters and lost in three was, you know, a good showing. But I do have a question for you, Renee. Why are both of these finals going to be played on a Tuesday?
00:14:48
Speaker 1: I mean, you're asking the wrong person on this.
00:14:51
Speaker 2: But it's so strange to me that we wouldn't have the finals on a Sunday. What is going on with the scheduling that we have the finals happening on a Tuesday?
00:15:00
Speaker 1: I mean, you're asking the wrong person. I mean, we've had this conversation for forever. It's ridiculous. I don't know. Did all of a sudden the TV ratings get better on a Tuesday than on a Sunday? Did the ticket sales become better on a Tuesday than on a Sunday? Especially in China, like those people work, man. Like, what are we doing here? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Um, these 10 day events with the women, the men. And I do want to say the men's is a 500, not a 1,000, before everyone goes at me that I said Alex was in the final of a 1,000. It is a 500. But it's like I don't really understand why we are playing a final on a Tuesday, Caitlin, so I can't answer those questions for you. Do you have any idea?
00:15:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, and I'm willing to blame the 10-day structure of some of these tournaments messing up the schedule, even if this isn't one of them. But it's very, very strange. And I am comforted to learn that the China Open, which is currently underway on the women's side, The final will, in fact, be on Sunday. I'm just used to, as somebody who works during the week but tries to catch tennis whenever I can, when I turn on the weekend tennis, I want to see the finals. I can't be alone in that, I don't think, even if the time zone means that it's 12 or 13 hours ahead.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: It's like the men are starting the tournament earlier, then the women kind of come in, so maybe that's why. But your guess is as good as mine, my friend. And especially considering how good that match was this morning. on a Monday morning. And that means like they're playing on a Sunday there. I don't know. It does. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know the answer to that, but the ATP might anyway. All right, let's take a quick break and then let's come back and talk about the ladies. Okay, so we did mention all the guys previous to this, and probably it's going to certainly be a story that Mr. Medvedev's going to have to talk about or own for the rest of his life, is that he got defotted by hitting a spectator in the face. It just gets worse and worse the more I think about it. It happened so shortly ago for me, watching it in person, or not in person, but on TV. But let's get to the women. Sabalenka, Rabakhina, boom, see you later, out of there. I mean, Rabakhina, I don't know what was going on there. Just mistakes. Apparently she wasn't feeling well. I don't know. It's just wild. Wild to see her lose her very first match after becoming the world number one and, of course, the reigning now U.S. Open champion. Crazy.
00:17:49
Speaker 2: I mean, the rumor is she's hurt and or sick. I don't know because she didn't pull out or make any excuses in press, but it does seem like maybe a good time to take a break is right after you've won the U.S. Open and not go straight to, you know, very intense tournaments in Asia.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:18:11
Speaker 2: She looked off. She looked rattled. It didn't look like herself, that's for sure. But at least she lost in three sets. Savalenka went down to... Bartunkova, kind of like a.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: Who we love. Bartunkova is like a mini Mokhova.
00:18:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's fun and she's got variety. Yeah, I'm more concerned with the Savalenka stocks because, like I said, I think she's... trending downward. Whereas to me, Rabakina, it's like, well, okay, but I'm willing to give her an early exit at a tournament that's sort of an emotional letdown after winning a giant, giant title and having otherwise, you know, been trending upwards. So to me, Sabalenka is more troubling, I have to say.
00:18:55
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, big time. I mean, that's just getting.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That's a winnable match.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: A very, very winnable.
00:19:01
Speaker 2: With not really showing up and not having any solutions. Whereas to me, Rabakina just looked like she kind of was just out of sorts in a way that, you know, give her a week off and some biscuits and she'll be back in there. You know what I mean? I don't know what they eat in Kazakhstan.
00:19:19
Speaker 1: Shararevo, you know, the player that beat her, is a very similar player, I felt like, and looks very similar to Paula Bedosa.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: And practices and trains in Spain. Um, and I thought, wow, she reminds me a lot of Badoza, just big player, went after it, served awesome, served a lot to the body of serve that not many players use enough. I think it's a serve that needs to be hit against Rabakina if you want to beat her. because if she gets the ball in her wingspan out there, good luck. And again, it's sort of like a serve that is underutilized. I think Sabalenka did not serve it enough at the US Open. But But yeah, I mean, Sabalenka in getting pissy pants as well, like she has lost, like her nerve endings are gone. Like she's just lit them on fire and she doesn't know how to bring it back anymore at all. And her confidence level is so low. She doesn't show it in a way like some people would like, you know, like kind of pouty, like I just, I don't know what to do kind of thing. Like when Coco gets upset, you see her sort of like, look, my forehand or whatever. I'm missing this. Sabalanka just gets angry and just looks at her player's box like, fix this for me. And you're just like, look, it's not possible. It's a different sort of anger or a different sort of level of frustration that she is showing on the court. And she has no game plan B. The difference with Coco is she could be playing 20 double faults, not making a forehand. And she will try and find a way and play ugly. I mean, she's the epitome of Brad Gilbert's book of winning ugly. And so she will try and figure out a way to win, even if her game A isn't there. She'll go to game plan D, C, D. you know, C, D, E, F, if she needs to. But Sabalenka doesn't have game plan B at all.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: No, and what's so interesting to me is Sabalenka is a player in the past who I would consider, like, pretty well coached. I don't know if you agree with that, but, like, sort of famously, she's worked through some pretty big... She's worked through, you know, what we used to talk about was her sort of semifinal curse. She's worked through, obviously, the serve, which, you know, that's some real mental fortitude. And I think for that reason, you know, she's still dynamic and fun to watch. And she's a fun world number one. You know, obviously, she's not the world number one anyway right now. But, like, I get why the aura of Sabalenka is fun and fun to root for. And I've been a fan of... More than I haven't. But I think what's happening right now is so confusing because she hasn't made a coaching change. She hasn't materially changed her approach to the game as far as I can tell. But it feels like the fuse is short. The belief is not there. As much as she's, you know, enjoying the limelight off court, it seems like it's inversely impacted her ability to enjoy the very... ever-present, you know, sort of turmoil on the court. Like, being a professional tennis player means you are out of the frying pan and into the fire in every single match, right? Like, we were just talking about.
00:22:26
Speaker 1: Especially when you're the top players in the world.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: And when you're the top player, you want to be in the mix. You want to be at these 500 and 1,000s and slam tournaments where there's not an easy round and everybody is going to be bringing their game to you. And I think... Something about her seems to have stopped enjoying that. And that's why, for me, the loss of Verbachina looks different than the loss of Sabalenka. Because the loss of Verbachina, to me, just looked like fatigue and kind of not maybe able to bring her best, but kind of still... trying. Whereas Sabalenka, to me, feels like she's out of sorts. That's why I think the finals that obviously are the next and last real major of the year, these WTA and ATP finals that are scheduled for early November and just over a month, that's where it gets really interesting, which is how are these players going to end the year? How are they going to pull together One last effort right before they go on to the offseason. And what was interesting, I think, about this season, as it now is towards the very end, is that Rabakina really got her entire energy, her entire bounce, her entire, you would argue, strength and confidence from what happened a year ago, barely getting into the WTA finals, ended up getting in by the skin of her teeth and then winning it, and then coming into this season, I think, really... positive with momentum. The opposite seems to have happened with Sabalenka. Whatever she lost the plot last year, and with the exception of obviously winning the Sunshine Double, which is a huge achievement, not to take anything from her, she's had kind of a downward tilt to the season. So I'm curious what these last couple of tournaments will look like for her. And I think it sets up the drama of the finals pretty nicely. All I know is if I'm Jess Pagula, I'm like... yes, it's my time to shine. Rabakini's out. Sabalenka's out. Like, let's go. She's not the only one who can win the tournament, obviously, but it does feel like those two have really stood in her way in the last couple of seasons for getting the, you know, getting hardware at the end of these tournaments.
00:24:37
Speaker 1: Well, talking about the WTA finals, you know, I'm looking at the race and the top eight are pretty solidly the top eight, right? The eighth ranked player right now is Karolina Mukhova. She is currently at 4,683 points. So for everyone at home, this time, and I can tell you from my own history in trying to make the WTA finals to coaching someone who's trying to make the WTA finals in Karolina Pliskova a couple of times, every win right now is so vital for all of these players. And it literally can come down to the last tournament of the year, which is it may come down to the last tournament of the year with the last spot because I would argue that Marta Kostiuk is 10th right now at 4,040 points. So she's 640 points away. That's a lot, right? That's winning a 500 or getting to the final of this WTA 1000, for example. Someone who's hanging on by the skin of her teeth is Iga Siontek. Now, speaking of hanging on by the skin of your teeth, Because this would have been likes out, goodbye, no chance to make the WTA finals, I believe. I mean, she could have maybe won, you know, a tournament or two leading into the WTA finals still. But this tournament is a 1,000, right? So to win this tournament, you get 1,000 points, okay? So unless the person that's just in front of you maybe makes the final and keeps you away, keeps you at bay, which is Carolina Mohova, and they're both in the tournament still, Iga Svantec was down a set and 5-2. to Donna Vekic and comes back and wins the match. If there is a match that she can look back, if she wins the WTF final, it will certainly be this one. And every person that was, and believe me when I tell you, Karolina Muhova would have been in the locker room cheering for Donna Vekic. Like, come on, please. Like, guarantee, because that would have probably guaranteed that Karolina Muhova and Elena Svetlana would I think Noskova's already in because she won Wimbledon. But those two players, Svitolina and Mukova, would have been probably sitting next to each other in the locker room pulling so hard for Donovec into the veteran to pull that match out.
00:26:49
Speaker 2: Just to get somebody else out of the way.
00:26:52
Speaker 1: The pressure is back on them to continue to keep winning because if they keep winning, they will stay ahead of Iga by about 500 points. But right now, if Iga wins the tournament, she will go about the same points tally as them unless, of course, they win the tournament. So, There's so much still on the line for all of these players. It's ridiculous. And I can tell you right now, the fact that Iga won that tournament, I'm like, she has to just go, you know what? Fuck this. Like, I have to win the tournament now. Like, how can you come back from a set in 5-2 against a player like Donna Vekic, who is, you know, a Very, very good player, and who's beaten a lot of very good players.
00:27:30
Speaker 2: Solid player. Yeah, well, you know, Iga's... It's not going to get easier from this point on. Iga's really going to have to put on the jets, which we've seen her do in the past. And she's got Iva Jovic, yes, next. You know, she's currently seeded 10. She's obviously made her case for being in the top echelon of players. Mukova's still in it. Osaka's still in it. Noskova, as you said, already in the finals is in it. Bartunkova's obviously in it, having beaten Sabalenka. Spitaline is in it and my girl Chin Wen at home. Oh, Chin Wen came through. Having just launched a new pair of Nikes. Chin Wen came through.
00:28:05
Speaker 1: And I tell you what, I don't know if you follow the stocks, Caitlin. I do. Nike stock is not doing well. It is down 50%. And the reason I'm telling you this, and I know this because I watch a lot of CNBC, is is that they have dropped off like 23% or something like this in China. Their sales in the U.S. are very good still. But in China, it's dropped off over 20%. Now, you don't think that this release of this shoe by Chin Win, and yes, it is Chin Win.
00:28:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. That was so good.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: Many times.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Finally, now everybody's on board with Chin Win.
00:28:41
Speaker 1: I've been on board.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: No, no, you're not the problem.
00:28:45
Speaker 1: I have been on board for years. I've had arguments about this literally in production meetings with my fellow commentators and then wanting to call her a kinwin because she says it on the WTA website. I'm like, she says it on the WTA website just because she's pointed that out in that thing that you reposted because Americans are too don't want to say the word because i know i'm going to get hate for it but you know a too stubborn let's just put it that way to recognize that it is chinwin okay so anyway that is going to help i think that's a big play for nike and that's a necessity for them to improve their sales in in china and maybe and maybe i'm not giving stock advice but maybe it's time.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: To buy oh interesting well i would check in.
00:29:27
Speaker 1: We'll check in on that stock in a year how about that If I were.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's sort of interesting that they have a couple of really interesting young men, not obviously anywhere near as good as Qin Wen is, but they've got this really interesting guy from Xinjiang province who went down to Novak Djokovic in three sets, got a set off Novak, Yunchakote Bu. He just goes by Bu. He's from, like I said, Xinjiang province. He's from, like, truly, like, the... nomadic people in the West. Like, super, super crazy story that he's even playing tennis, much less playing it at a super high professional level. Obviously, they've got Jerry Shang, who we've spoken about. And they have my guy, ZZ, Zhizhen Zhang, who's about as cute as can be. Now, is he going to get to the finals of any of these tournaments?
00:30:15
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:30:15
Speaker 2: None of these guys seem to be that good. But if I'm Nike and I want some interesting stories and some interesting athletes to get behind in the tennis space, you've got a cool assortment. So, yeah, let's hope Chin Wen does some damage at this tournament, at least for the ladies. Now, having gotten through that Bushkovo match, I don't know. Like I said, I think Chin Wen's on the upswing.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: I think she can get to the finals of this tournament.
00:30:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker 1: I think she's playing well enough. She's going to have the support. They are rabid fans in China. They love their players. And they really, I've played there against Chinese players and it's not fun. And, you know, look, there's obviously a lot of players in her half of the draw in Coco Gauff, blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of great players still left. But if she were to make the final, boy, oh boy, that would be humongous for the tournament. And it would frankly be humongous for the WTA. And God knows they need all the help they can get. And we'll get to the reasons of that in our questions that have been sent in to us today. But anyway, it's a super exciting tournament still. There's so many great matches, Muhova, Osaka, like all the terrific matches that we always look forward to when it comes to the women's draw. Depth is incredible. Sharieva, good to see her continue her win. She beat Kartel today, and after beating Rubakina, we like to see them continue, right? Jovic was comfortable in her win today. Svitolina over Sakari, and of course that comeback was unbelievable from Igor Shiontek today. And Bencic going down to Ann Lee. Look, Ann Lee is sort of like, you know, quietly having a great year. And that is a big win for the 21st seed. And Mertens just scraped it through against Ostapenko in her win today as well. So, look, there's been a lot of great matches on the women's side. And I don't know. I'm just looking forward to who comes through because there is an opportunity, of course, with Sabalenka. and Rabakhina out of the tournament. Who do you think ends up winning this? Because when we do talk about this, we will be next week, we will be talking about the winner of the tournament. You just think JPEG.
00:32:18
Speaker 2: Honestly, I kind of feel like this might be Makova's time to shine. I feel like she's got a not top form Naomi Osaka, but a better Naomi Osaka now than she would have had six months ago. I kind of like Makova. I feel like Makova's stock is always high in my book when she's healthy and playing confidently. Who among us didn't see her hitting a 360 degree off the shoelaces pickup to then hit a beautiful fading out wide cross court uh, shot of the tournament over the weekend. So for me, I'm, I'm always a Carolina Mujova fan and I hope she, uh, has some success on this Asia swing. And I, and I hope it goes into the finals, but I don't know if she's my pick. You know, I have a hard time disaggregating who I want to win and who I think will win. Um, you know, because then it always ends up being like, at least in Mertens. And I'm like, Oh, I wouldn't have picked her for anything. And here we are, you know?
00:33:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because you know, Pagola is not even playing this tournament.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: So it's definitely not going to be Pagola, but I think in terms of, uh, Watching the two best players in the world in Sabalenka and Rabakina struggling a little bit.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: Capitulate a little bit, yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker 2: This is like when you're number three is number four. This is when you really get people rubbing their hands together and salivating a little bit.
00:33:37
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: But in the end, you have to beat them in the majors, you know. And look, JPEG through the years has won a lot of big tournaments. And she's beaten, surprisingly, the big players when she wins those tournaments, whether it be Iga, whether it be Sabalenka, whether it be Robachina, but she can't beat them at the majors. And I don't know what it is. That's the only question that she can answer. She chose not to play this tournament. And, you know, just going back on that, I think, you know, one question that I know that I've spoken to Sam Stoser about this when she won the US Open, she said the mistake she made was playing immediately after in Asia. She wished she'd taken the time. She wished she'd sort of taken the time to sort of enjoy the win a little bit and also not have the pressure on her to immediately, you know, expect, you know, the expectation then was to win immediately after the U S open win and win another tournament. And, and it was just too much for her. And so I think you're right. I think that if Rebecca, you know, certainly if she's a little ill or not feeling good, like you don't need to play. Serena didn't play Asia for like the last, five to seven years of her career. She was just like, I'm done.
00:34:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: And I think that's a great... Agree.
00:34:44
Speaker 2: Serena certainly set the playbook for protecting your body and protecting your mental health. And I think in the case of Rabakina, it might be a little bit of both. In the case of Sabalek, it's maybe the latter. And I think what the players owe themselves in a world where the tournaments, the tours, the governing bodies aren't necessarily looking out for them, until they are, Until the tours, with complete buy-in, get it together and decide that player bodily safety, health, mental, parental, abusive policies are all going to be aimed at making this as productive a workplace as it can be, the players can and should be like, yo, I'm going to just do what I need to do. And if that means a fine or if that means skipping a chunk or not chasing points, then like, I guess that's the trade-off. But like, to me, it's kind of like a toxic workplace where they tell you that every day is an emergency and every weekend you need to come into the office. You know, after a couple of years of that, you might be like, you know what, I'm just going to like take a couple of random Wednesday, Thursday Fridays off and just turn my phone off because this isn't a productive way for me to be Spending my time, I'm burnt out. And I think these guys, year after year after year, have raised concerns, have been participating on the Players Council. Speaking of Jess Pagula, she's part of this new SLAM Council where they're theoretically going to help negotiate directly with the SLAMs for player welfare. Like, until tennis protects tennis players, tennis players should do whatever the F they want. Yeah.
00:36:19
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. They are changing some of the rules next year of not having to play, you know, all the 1,000s, all the blah, blah, blah. So anyway, we'll... We'll see how that develops next year, but there certainly needs to be, at least it sounds like a little more input from the players as they should.
00:36:32
Speaker 3: All right, let's take a quick break and get to your questions after this. Okay, so.
00:36:51
Speaker 1: Let's get into the questions.
00:36:53
Speaker 2: I love the questions. I love the questions so much. Thank you so much for writing us some questions.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: So Johnny on the spot, everybody, because we did get seven questions already in an hour. So thanks, listeners. I hope you love this part of our pod because we do love and I have people all the time on the streets in New York going, love your pod. So for anybody that does come up to me or Caitlin on the street, we appreciate it. And thank you for that.
00:37:17
Speaker 2: All right.
00:37:17
Speaker 1: So Let's get to the questions. Do you want to start or would you like me to start?
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Why don't you start?
00:37:22
Speaker 1: All right. Jennifer Hart asked, do you think Serena would have broken the Grand Slam record if the women played best of five? I think so due to her athleticism and her ability to increase her level during a match. Ooh, that's a really great question. I don't know. I mean, it's really hard to say because you just don't know, right? I mean, you just don't know. Now, would we have had less men? of the same men winning Grand Slams? If we'd been best of three instead of best of five, yes. I would say we would have had more of variation. We've even had it recently where I think it was Zverev that said something along the lines of, well, best of three is very different to best of five in slams. And it's a different mentality. And even players saying, I got Alcaraz at major level. I would say on the guy's side, you know, when it's best of three, they mentally sort of tap out a little bit because it just doesn't, I don't say it doesn't mean as much to them, but at a major level, a Grand Slam level, you care more. Like you dig deeper more. And yes, I would say that there are players that would win over five sets more than some in best of three, but you just never know. But I would probably say yes. I'd probably say Serena probably would win more if it was best of five.
00:38:40
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, look at when she would lose. A lot of times it's because she got a slow start, or a lot of times it would be because a player kind of snuck up on her. I'm thinking about some of the matches she played, especially towards the back half of her career. Naomi Osaka, Simona Halep at that Wimbledon, Angie Kerber.
00:39:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, the nerves got her in a lot of those. I mean, look at when she was going for the calendar Grand Slam. She won two Serena Slams, where she held all four twice. Um, but going for that calendar grand slam, I'll never forget that losing to Roberta Vinci. Like this is a player that didn't get more than four games in a set against Serena in the past. And Serena beat her two weeks earlier in Canada. I believe it was like six, four, six, two, but Serena was so on edge even in that match. And then Serena went to the US Open and played Vinci again, like two weeks later, and just played horribly and was so nervous and knew she was going for the calendar Grand Slam. And no offense to Vinci and no offense to Flavia Panetta.
00:39:39
Speaker 2: Who ended up winning the tournament. Yeah, Flavia Panetta won the tournament the next match. They're great players. But it was a level below what we're used to seeing for Serena. And I think had she gotten... a little bit of the spilkies out a little bit over the course of five sets. Yeah, spilkies is a British word for, like, you know, your nervous energy. I think she would have probably won a couple more. Not 20 more, but I think she would have won maybe three or four more, for sure.
00:40:07
Speaker 1: Jennifer, that was a great question, and thank.
00:40:09
Speaker 2: You for it. Yeah, good question. It also allowed us to revisit some of our favorite Serena Slam finals. Okay, second question, Nebby. In your opinion, what's one change the WTA needs that isn't getting talked about enough? Well, I mean, listen to the podcast. I mean, we talk about this all the time. I hope the WTA gets itself financially viable, which maybe it has now with this move to Charlotte for the finals next year, and they're moving their HQ to Charlotte, which also to me indicates that it's more than just a tournament they're moving HQ for.
00:40:39
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question?
00:40:41
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:40:41
Speaker 1: Maybe we should have looked this up. What are the North Carolina tax laws like compared to Florida?
00:40:46
Speaker 2: There is more tax in North Carolina than Florida, but also there are a number of moneyed individuals, both state and city, who are particularly incentivized to make the state a sporting hub. The taxes across the board can't get much lower than in Florida. But I think being marooned in a beautiful, nice city of St. Pete, but not one that is necessarily central to a lot of business dealings or other hubs for other major companies, Charlotte has Bank of America. Charlotte has a number of major sports teams. It's a little bit more of a big city. And it's obviously on the coast, which I think matters a little bit. We'll see. I mean, to me, the number of changes that WTA seems to be implementing under WTA acting CEO Valerie Camillo are sort of positive. There's some new changes. sponsorship news, there's some new structure news. I want to see them market and sell the sport as an experience that is on par with the WNBA and women's soccer and other sports that it started out leagues ahead of and is now leagues behind.
00:41:47
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
00:41:48
Speaker 2: That would be my hope. There's a lot that goes into that, but one change is that the WTA doesn't seem to know how to market, but before it even gets there, they need to figure out how to be financially responsible and figure out how to be a feasible marketer. organization.
00:42:02
Speaker 1: Well, the next question, as you see from Marisa Bell de Leon, do you have any verified information regarding the WTA bankruptcy allegations?
00:42:11
Speaker 2: We are reporting out a story right now. Racket Magazine is reporting out a story right now with the WTA with regards to the Simon Camber's telegraph piece. He reported in the telegraph a couple of weeks ago that the WTA was on track to be bankrupt by the end of next year. And the reason is because they utilized a lot of their investment from CVC, from the Saudi Tennis Federation, and others to push the prize money at tournaments that were not priorly awarding it to be equal to the men's. The reporting doesn't seem to have gotten much pushback from the WTA, although they haven't come out and made an official statement about it. They just came out and said that their finals were going to be next year in Charlotte and their HQ was moving to Charlotte, like I just was talking about. My conversations with people at the WTA would indicate to me that I don't know that the reporting was wrong, but I definitely know that there's some moves being made on the inside that hopefully with our reporting we'll be able to bring to light. I don't know if that's true that they've been using the money to pay out prize money, which on its face sounds like they should be doing it, but in reality reflects a really easy way to run through a lot of money very quickly because it doesn't get reinvested in the organization.
00:43:29
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't they state that that's what they wanted to do with it? And I think for me, when I heard that originally, I was like, wait, isn't this kicking the can down the road? This is not solving the problem. And the problem where the WTA faces, as opposed to the ATP, is that their TV rights are terrible comparative to the men. And so organizations like sporting organizations make a lot of money from their selling their TV rights. And, you know, the men are signing deals left and right. They recently just signed another one in the last week. So I just feel like the sponsorship they need to get right. I'm certainly... They need to trim the fat, as we say, as well. And they need more money coming into the organization. Like you said, it is coming into the WNBA. The unrivals of the world are getting money left and right as well. They're now worth X amount of dollars. These WNBA franchises are starting to be worth over $ 200 million. It's insane. So it's like, yeah, the WTA need to figure out a way to use their players and utilize their players as a partner.
00:44:33
Speaker 2: I don't know that it's just the players. I think a lot of it is the product of women's tennis. The product of women's tennis is fantastic. And I think the strategy in years past has been to sell sponsorships around one or two stars. And that's great. Serena sells a lot of sponsorships. Maria Sharapova famously sold a lot of sponsorships. Serena Sabalenka is, like we've been talking about, a charismatic top player who can garner a lot of attention. But that doesn't necessarily translate into ticket sales. It doesn't translate into higher negotiable rights value for broadcast. And most importantly, it hasn't resulted in a financially stable organization, it would appear. So for me, it's way less about the players and way more about figuring out how to market women's tennis as a great product. We know that there's a huge demand we know that there's a huge audience for it. How they have not created valuable assets out of that is really a staggering problem of leadership. And I won't put it at the feet of the new leadership. I will put it at the feet of the old leadership. And it's frankly a problem with the board. WTA Ventures is not new. They've been created and tasked with the idea of marketing and monetizing the tour. They're now five years old. And I would argue that aside from a Mercedes-Benz partnership, which is a good one, they just announced a streaming partnership with a content partner in China. Okay. But that's not enough.
00:46:02
Speaker 1: Where's the others? Yeah, exactly.
00:46:03
Speaker 2: And that's, you know, these are short-term deals, especially the one I just mentioned in China. So to me, there's a lot of smart people on those boards with a lot of fancy titles getting a lot of money and a lot of fat at the organization. So... You know, if your comms department is 20 people across two different countries, but you're not able to sell the story of women's tennis, what's everybody doing? You know, so. So, yeah, we'll see. I'm very curious and I stay.
00:46:34
Speaker 1: Tuned for your.
00:46:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have a dog in this fight other than, you know, I want these.
00:46:38
Speaker 1: You want the best for the tour.
00:46:39
Speaker 2: To be to be healthy.
00:46:41
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. Dr. Sook, if the schedule is too hard on players' bodies, why World Team Tennis? Okay, well, I wanted to talk about this anyway because World Team Tennis is coming to New York for those in the area. It's also coming to Florida and it's also coming to Toronto. So, you know, go to worldteamtennis.com, check it out, search it on Google. Don't search it on ChatGPT because it uses way too much water and AI is going to ruin us. But I think that this is a different situation. Early December is players getting back into training and back into wanting to play some matches prior to going to Australia. Players will finish mid-November after the WTA or ATP finals. They may have even finished earlier, depending on if they make the WTA and ATP finals. This is a great way for them to have probably been back on the practice court maybe for a week to get some matches in and actually play You know, have a bit of fun. It's relaxed. There's no pressure on you because you're not trying to win points or blah, blah, blah. But world team tennis is stressful because you are playing for a team. But I think this is actually a different situation because early December is them getting back on the horse. It's getting back into practice mode and match mode to play a tournament in early January. So this is actually a good thing. Now, if they were playing this in the middle of November, I'd be like, huh? That's not great. You haven't given yourself any time off. So when I see these players playing exhibitions in late November, I'm thinking, meh. But I think this is actually a good time because, as I said, they'll be back about practicing for about a week at this point, and then they'll be straight into playing matches and then getting themselves ready mentally ready to go to Australia. So that's why I see no problem with World Team Tennis. And honestly, if you are in the areas of Toronto, New York, and Florida, it's going to be fun. So go watch it. If you've never seen World Team Tennis, it's going to be a load of fun. You've got music. It's a very different atmosphere. And for me, it was one of my favorites. I loved playing World Team Tennis, and it's a load of fun. This is the next question because you've got to go, Caitlin.
00:48:41
Speaker 2: This is our last question. Anne-Marie, do you think there will be a new Grand Slam champion next year? What do you think about that, Renee?
00:48:50
Speaker 1: Well, I still have hope that we can get Carolina Mohova over the line in some fashion. In Australia, look, this woman can play on every surface. I would love to see her win one next year. I did predict that Amanda Anisimova was going to win one, but sadly things went a little bit awry for her this year. She's taking time off at the end of the year, which I think is a smart thing. Eva Jovic is certainly a player to look out for, maybe at the French Open. Hard to really say. We still have hope for Kugula. On the men's side, I don't see anyone popping through, maybe a Ben Shelton, if possible. But on the women's side, hey, take your pick. Look inside the top 30, throw an arrow. One of them could do it. I think I'm interested to see if Noskova can get through and win this tournament. I think she's capable of doing it as well. That will send a very big sign for everyone that she ain't going away. This is a player that can potentially be number one in the world because she has all the strokes, all the game, all the mentality, all the things. And so, yeah, I honestly don't know who's going to... What about you? Anyone on the list?
00:49:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mokova is the one who came to mind as somebody I would love to see win a slam. I'm not sure... you know, given the amount of just incredible talent and depth on the women's tour, that that's possible. On the men's side, I see a Hodar happening before a, or maybe even an Alexander Blocks happening before a Ben Sheldon, which would continue the European, you know, domination. You know, what would be cool if it's like, I don't know, like Cruz Hewitt or some young Australian guy comes through and just lights the world on fire. I'm not saying it's impossible. Maybe Alex Diminar. Maybe Alex Diminar's time to shine.
00:50:33
Speaker 1: Alex Diminar has to get through a quarterfinal before he can start talking about winning it.
00:50:37
Speaker 2: Well, you said it, not me. But I'm rooting for.
00:50:40
Speaker 1: I mean that with all love.
00:50:41
Speaker 2: Team world. Come on, team world on the men's side. Team world. I like Europe a lot, but enough. Like, somebody. Let's get some.
00:50:50
Speaker 1: One thing I did realize is that Uzbekistan is in Asia, so... Oh, no, Kazakhstan, sorry. Rubakina would be team world for the women.
00:50:59
Speaker 2: Well, all the more reason to have an exhibition women's version.
00:51:04
Speaker 1: Of Labor Cup. What would you call it? Navratilova Cup? Graf Cup? Navratilova Cup.
00:51:08
Speaker 2: Salas Cup? I mean, just given how many checks there are, it feels like the Navratilova Cup is extremely, extremely. But like everything else, would we then put Chrissy involved, you know? Team Chrissy, Team Martina? Well, probably. Probably.
00:51:24
Speaker 1: Maybe call it something else cup and make them the two teams.
00:51:27
Speaker 2: They should be the two teams, yeah.
00:51:29
Speaker 1: They should be the two teams.
00:51:30
Speaker 2: Europe versus everybody else.
00:51:31
Speaker 1: Well, no.
00:51:32
Speaker 2: Well, because Martina's now American. Yeah, I'm not sure Martina wants to be associated with.
00:51:38
Speaker 1: She's good with it now.
00:51:39
Speaker 2: She's good with it now.
00:51:40
Speaker 1: They're not communists anymore, so she's good with it. On that note, Mike did write in about Zverev, about the Medvedev disqualifications. Why didn't they have a replay? Because they did that a million times with Djokovic. It's called cameras. If they didn't have the camera on it, you don't get it. So we didn't see the ball from what I know at the moment. But I can tell you, Mike, have no fear. Somebody would have had a camera of a phone or something. It will get out hitting the guy in the face. We don't need to see it. It happens. The guy went down like he'd been shot. So it's out there.
00:52:15
Speaker 3: Anyway.
00:52:17
Speaker 1: All right, on that note, everyone, thanks again for writing us in at such short notice. I really appreciate it. And Caitlin, thanks for joining me today.
00:52:24
Speaker 2: What a delight.
00:52:26
Speaker 1: What a delight.
