Chris Cahill: I've gotten a bunch of requests for career development topics from listeners, so this will be the first of a series of career conversations. In this episode with Shamin Patel, the focus was on soft skills, the often invisible capabilities that quietly determine who gets trusted, who gets opportunities, and who grows in their career. We're talking about things like communication, emotional intelligence, collaboration, adaptability, and influence. Not the buzzwords on a slide, but the everyday behaviors, how you show up in meetings, how you handle conflict, how you respond when things change, and how you build relationships that matter. The goal in this conversation is simple, to help you see soft skills not as a nice to have, but as trainable, observable skills that you can intentionally develop and leverage for career and life success. Let's get into it. Shame, welcome to the podcast.
Shamim Patel: Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm excited to be here.
Chris Cahill: I've been following your career for a while and we worked together, which was a lot of fun and you've moved on to other things. I've gotten a ton of requests about career development and and I think you have a really neat story,
Shamim Patel: Well, I'm excited to talk about it. I think when we first talked about this concept, I think the thing that struck a chord with both of us was just the development for the future workforce. And so this is truly a topic that excites me.
Chris Cahill: Before we jump into it, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Hi everybody. I'm Shimen Patel. I am currently a chief of staff at ABV for the therapeutic area head of US specialty. And I have had an illustrious career over the last almost 20 years, really focused in on traditional health care and then non-traditional health care. And so those of you that may be listening that are more pharma focused, my career really took a pivot. after I decided to leave traditional healthcare and join the pharmaceutical industry. And so I've been a part of this system for the last 12 years.
Chris Cahill: And so in in that traditional healthcare model, what what did you do?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. I started out my career as a manager of medical records. It was a paper based environment, Chris. I really oversaw not just paper assemblers of what we were calling at that time HIM analysts, who were responsible for the integrity of the paper record and assembling it in a specific order. I also had coders and billers. And so think your traditional ICD9 hospital charging coding billing. And it was for the entire hospital system, inpatient, outpatient, emergency room. And it was a fairly large department that I oversaw. I had about 16 coders and billers and about 10. HIM analysts
Chris Cahill: what it sounds like is that you were essentially the chief puzzle solver
Shamim Patel: there were a lot and you can imagine, right? In a hospital, it's not just physicians that are looking for hospital records. Sometimes it's risk management, sometimes it's legal, sometimes it's utilization management. They need to go in and see what happened, why it happened. and so yes, we were definitely chief solvers and chasers.
Chris Cahill: And when you were in traditional healthcare, I'm I'm assuming timing wise you you kind of oversaw a a transition to digital as well, yes?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. And so as I was getting ready to have my first child, we were also implementing electronic barcoding system and so records could be tracked because as you can imagine, they were getting lost in in the shuffle, and we were in a transition plan from this hybrid model as we were calling at that time. To a full model. And that happened actually several years after I departed.
Chris Cahill: really interesting 'cause as as health systems continue to consolidate, these conversations are still ongoing,
Shamim Patel: And it takes a while, right? You have to think about capital infrastructure, people, processes, even just doing simple, what we think may be simple migrations has a very big impact, not just on revenue, but patient care.
Chris Cahill: you mentioned a pivot where you went from traditional to non-traditional in the care environment. Was there was there an event that caused that to happen? Was it you managing your career? Tell me about that.
Shamim Patel: I've been very lucky and blessed to have the network that I have had. And I always say your network is your net worth. And so my first boss, who is still my lifelong mentor, was my hiring manager at Rush Copley. And she was really instrumental as my go-to person and really helping me brainstorm ideas or just Talk through challenges, connect me to her network. And wherever she thought there was an opportunity, she would really try her best to plug me in. And so Pat again became my lifelong mentor, and her and I are still dear friends and colleagues. And then I ended up at Certification Commission for Health IT. And they were the first ONC authorized testing and certification body. Because at that time, the government had issued the American Recovery Reinvestment Act. It was like the thing to focus on in healthcare. joined that group and really oversaw certification coordination processes and so got deeper behind how technically EHR products like Cerner, Epic, all scripts were really being certified and tested in all of the components for meeting the standards, for security, compliance, HIPAA, e-prescribing and all of the really core components And I did that for almost a year. I did a very quick stint at Cigna for about a year and a half where I was managing enterprise data warehousing. And so there were no like major triggers or events that said, I need to do something different. but it was it was just an opportunity, and I saw the opportunity and I thought, why not, why not move and and take that opportunity? And so every pivot had led me to something not bigger, but in a way for me to challenge my thinking. Or learning or really serving in a different capacity. Because straight out of college, as I mentioned, I was managing a department of over 20 FTEs. And I vividly remember walking into the department and you know, I looked fairly young. And my team kept telling me, we have kids your age, that's okay. but during the course and duration, Of that management and of that team, we really became close. There were so many different things that each of the team members were either going through or had gone through, and just serving to be empathetic and really just being a leader that can listen. I think they didn't have that before. And so at that time I was also having my first child, as I mentioned. And so it just it became this really great group. Of individuals and I still keep in touch with some of them. But that was more about leadership and learning. And then some of the other roles I took after that focused in on governance and processes and becoming more of an operational SME. And so I really wanted to ensure I was diversifying how I was really managing my career. And so Cygna, I became more of an owner of enterprise data warehousing for. all the claims engines and then managing all the EDI mapping. They were very cumbersome to manage in detail, but that gave me gave me a different lens of ownership. and then after Cygna, I went back to corporate advocate. And then I oversaw I oversaw information governance. Whether it's in your physical records, whether it's in your EHRs, just the overall governance process of information. And I was able to create an infrastructure and also record record retention schedules, because that was a big deal. There were things being kept in off-site storage like Iron Mountain and not being purged, even though the state of Illinois at has their own set of rules and guidelines that are not the same as the federal guidelines. And that allowed me to really think through a bigger picture of not just state and local jurisdictions, but also at a federal level and then kind of create processes around that. And then I had my second baby. And then I was like, well, I don't know what I want to do next. And I was tapped on the shoulder from Pat, And she's like, hey, I have this job at Pfizor that's really serving to be this health IT SME. And I was like, Pat, I don't know. I've, you know, I just had a baby. I'm not really sure if this is ideal because I knew it entailed Travel, and that's not something I had done in my career for the first five years, You know, it's it's what you want to do, it's what you make of it. The only catch was that the field role was based in California. And so I really took a risk and and a gamble again, born and raised in Chicago, never went far from the nest. I really never even traveled much, Chris. and it really expanded my horizons because she was able to convince me and I had a six month old in tow. I was nursing, then I was pumping at airports because as you can imagine, field role, California based, I was on the road a lot. And so I was on the road probably for 85% of my first year and a half at Pfizer because I was covering the West Coast. And so I wanted to show a lot of good intention and effort and Thankfully, I am blessed, like I've said, not just with people and mentors, but with family. And they have always been by my side and helped taken care and raise my children. And so my mom was able to stay with my son while I was doing the Pfizer role when he was so tiny. and so she she would stay with my husband and My daughter and I would be on the road. And so I did that for almost, yeah, a year and a half, maybe two years. And then Pat and I were colleagues and then she moved on to a different pharma organization. And so I got a really good stronghold on what that capability, competency could really do for medical groups, integrated delivery networks, academic centers, key accounts in general. And I really felt like it was a feather in my cap and it was a great way to really interject with the key account management organization. So shout out to all of my Pfizer cams who were really active and in using this capability as a way in, not just to these key decision makers, but as a way to really do something. Of meaning and population health management at that time, this is 2014, was really the core way of engaging around quality improvement and really finding shared priorities and areas of alignment. And so did that for almost five years. And then Novartis came tapping on my shoulder and said, Hey, we kind of like what you're doing here at Pfizer. Would you be interested in in building this out? For us at Novartas. and I was like, man, I'm really comfortable at Pfizer, you know, I'm I'm I'm doing my thing. And it was a risk, but it was a great risk. And I'm again, I I think what I'm trying to highlight is at every point you are going to get opportunities. that are either risks as as you may deem, or just you know, great comfortable roles that you can transition into. But I took a risk and because I was moving from a director level at Pfizer to an associate director level at Novartis. I wasn't going to have the support I had at Pfizer, right? I remember my first meeting with legal and compliance at Novartis, I I get to. And Mike, who him and I catch up often, he's like, hey, I think you need to go back to Pfizer. This H I T thing is not gonna work here at Navardis. And I remember like feeling so deflated and crushed. and I just kind of took it in in the moment. I I do a lot of that. If there's something I don't like, I'll just smile through it and kind of keep chugging and then reconvene. And so I didn't really take no for an answer, then I came back a few weeks later with a plan and why it works and what it will do and how I've seen it actually work. and and the rest is history. I feel very proud of what I was able to build at Navartas. I started out in heart failure and then launched LECVIO, And then we scaled to the enterprise and then launched three oncology products. And so it was just a really beautiful labor of love in in my career where I've actually been able to build something from the ground up, give it legs and and teach it how to walk and talk and and then really see it expand and go.
Chris Cahill: that's where our paths crossed at Novartis. before we talk more about that and go a little deeper, I have a couple of follow-up questions because as I listened to you, you use the word risk several times. I'm curious, looking back on some of these things, it probably seemed like a risk at the time. When you got into it, did it feel like a risk or was was the perceived versus actual risk different once you got into it?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think in traditional healthcare, there's probably less risk. I think in life sciences pharma, there's probably more of a risk in the sense of security, right? so perceived risk is probably very accurate. and I do think a lot of it has to do with security in the sense of, ooh, does does anybody understand what this capability is? Again, I did something very niche, unique. and and narrow and so it was not a language everyone was accustomed to speaking and so it was definitely a perceived risk in after reflection in my opinion because it wasn't as innate as omnichannel marketing or let's do a DTC, right? It's it's it was a very different way of working and thinking and collaborating across every channel and thinking through that. And so the perceived risk was probably more internal in how I felt in belonging or not being of the pharma kin and not really having had that traditional pharma experience, even though I came over from another pharma company, I was still very narrow in what I was doing.
Chris Cahill: I think this is an interesting one though, because a lot of people will forego opportunities because of that risk. They'll they'll stick with the the perceived certainty. I this is something I think about a lot because there's risk to perceived certainty as well. in an ever changing environment, I think we need to think about risk in a different way because as I listen to you, what I'm hearing is that you're learning and you're growing. even though you're taking perceived risks, I think there would be more risk to actually staying where you were because you wouldn't be learning and growing.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. I love that. And I think that's exactly why I ended up at Abvi in a completely different capacity, chief of staff. And that is because A, I wanted to prove to myself that I can continue to learn and grow and do things that were hard for me. it's not easy walking into a completely new organization, number one. I think people are also averse to taking that risk. And changing and moving jobs from a stability perspective, which I totally respect, However, at the same time, it does also offer you the opportunity to learn new things, learn a new company, learn new ways of working, meet new people. I started with your network is your net worth, And it really broadens your horizons. Like I'm involved in processes that I never thought I would be from operations to communications to strategic planning, right? And so it really just stretches you in ways and capacities that you didn't think you could be stretched in. And I continue to surprise myself because I'm like, I I didn't know what I was doing, but I handled that well, right? Like I I can give myself that credit and I can acknowledge that it was hard at the same time. And not give up on investing in yourself. Because a lot of this is also self-investment, right? Like, what are you going to do with this learning? How are you going to apply it in the future? And a large part for me is also focusing on the next generation of the workforce, whether it's my kids who will some point enter. workforce. but also just the broader community mentorship is critical, Like how do you continue to push people to think? I think we have a lot of conveniences and we tend to get very comfortable and we have to do more with getting uncomfortable
Chris Cahill: So let's talk about being uncomfortable. You you stepped into this role at Abvi where you self admittedly said you didn't know what you were doing. I beg to differ. You you always figure things out. but when there isn't a clear bru blueprint, what what are some of the things that you do to first assess the situation?
Shamim Patel: I am so big, Chris, in relationship building, right? I think that is the biggest lever anyone can have. because you're seeking to understand, to listen. I think all of those very basic skills we need to operate as humans or within teams or in individual companies. That has been so critical. So building relationships has been a key lever for me. because sometimes if they don't know who you are, as you send an email, as you send a request, it's kind of easy for them to just say no or turn you away or to assume, hey, this is irrelevant for me. and so that was my number one agenda item as I stepped into this role. Because I do think there's a lot also. With the art of influencing when you build relationships, not in a manipulative way, right? But in a way where you contextually can verbalize and fill in gaps of why does this have to happen now? What is the urgency, right? and you know, in this capacity, I do tend to fight fight a lot of fire drills, is just the role and the nature. Of what I do. And so having that as a lever can really be helpful. and then beyond that is is okay, once I've built the relationship, do I feel like I'm in good rapport or is there trust? Do we have a cadence of communication? I think all of that matters so much in what you do and how you show up. And then I've had to learn a lot around just processes, Like what can we do to ensure there's processes in place? What are we doing to ensure continuity of business? And I think that has been something that I've been very clear. About how it is that it can either be improved or sustained over time. So people understand, hey, there's there's an ultimate enterprise vision or bigger reason for the why.
Chris Cahill: It's interesting because from a career perspective, what you're describing are skills that transcend all your roles, right? These are just foundational skills. So when you switch identities, you're using the same type of skills to be successful.
Shamim Patel: Yeah, yeah. And I think I wrote a LinkedIn post about this, right? Like people will always matter because they are at the core of everything we do. even with AI taking over, the human side of us will never really truly change. We will all still need to learn how to navigate emotions and navigate people and personalities and asks and priorities and so yeah I don't think that that will ever change.
Chris Cahill: so another question around kind of identity and and when you switch titles, you talked about going from a subject matter expert to a leader to now a chief of staff. How do you stay confident when you're new in title? You mentioned you went from director to associate director and didn't have support and were told no. Where does that confidence come from for you?
Shamim Patel: I don't like to be overly confident. and I I don't talk about like awards and titles or what I've done in my career, I lean in more around building these connections that I know I will need in an effort to move forward. And I think that helps me build my confidence. Quite a bit, because I'm like, man, I did good today. So I think a lot of my confidence comes from my ability to have some of those dialogues and move the needle and what I like to view as making an impact, right? and I think that's one thing that I've been coaching. A lot of my a lot of the folks that I talk to around career development or how they should view their career, I always highlight it is critical to focus on the outcomes and the impact you are making to ensure that there's visibility, And so I think we get very fixated on checking off a list and focusing on just responsibilities, which are of course critical and necessary to do your job, but it's not the entire job, right? I've been very focused on driving my confidence through the outcomes and the impact I make.
Chris Cahill: that's a really important one because a lot of people focus on the visibility versus the impact. but if you're truly making impact, it becomes visible, There's value there that's associated with it.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well said.
Chris Cahill: So I'm curious your answer. What's next for you?
Shamim Patel: I don't know. I think I wrote about this on LinkedIn too. I'm not sure. you know, I I do kind of go through this like tug of war between like, do I stay to be a generalist? Do I continue to my path of being a SME? I want to stay curious. I think that is something that I didn't do enough of. And if I could go back and reflect and see what I can change, I want to stay more curious. But at the same rate, I feel like I was curious because I've taken those risks and changed organizations and built new things and tried new therapeutic areas.
Chris Cahill: So I think this is a critical one that I talk to a lot of people about and they're beating themselves up because they don't have a plan or a role that they're targeting. But what I'm hearing from you is a is a mindset of learning. And you know, I I wonder what your thoughts are on why why is it so uncomfortable for people to say, I don't know.
Shamim Patel: This is Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of some of the things we've already touched on. It's it's an uncomfortable feeling, Chris. I, you know, my my husband's been reorged out before, and and there there there's a lot of feelings with that. and I actually remember for a second of being vulnerable here. I remember when I left in OVARTA, I didn't know what to do with myself. I felt my entire identity as a person, as a human, was tied to being this executive director of health IT precision medicine. and I I I feel like I could not sleep. It it was very hard to disassociate and detach. Cause I I was very short-sighted in in my view. I reflected and I was like, wait, I'm a whole human being. I have two kids, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a friend, I volunteer, I mentor, I'm connected in my community, right? There are so many other things that we tend to push to the background and deprioritize. But I feel like all of those became much more important for me. And I think that mindset also helped me really pivot on my career focus as well. Am I losing steam in my career because of the my mindset? Absolutely not. you know, but it it's helping me balance my perspective. And I think perspective is something, that is so critical. I think that has really shaped my mindset and has really proven that I am more. I am more than just a title. I was volunteering pretty heavily with Shite Care, which is a not for profit in the Chicagoland area. They have been on this beautiful mission of serving home cooked or warm meals. to the homeless population in Chicago. And they go out every day. And so just to see the spirit of that and channeling a little bit of your identity loss and putting it into perspective really helped shape me. I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? Who am I? From a career perspective, I'm lost. I don't know who who I can be. And then I think all of these life events have really helped shape and and guide my mindset.
Chris Cahill: Would you do anything differently if you had to do it again?
Shamim Patel: I really don't think so. I'm of the mindset that every every bit of my career shaped the next phase of it and led me to different, more curious, more challenging places and spaces. And I'm proud of that. And I feel like I am here because of everything I did in the past.
Chris Cahill: let's give people some advice if they're at a crossroad or thinking about changes in their career. If someone listening feels pulled towards something new, but they're worried about wasting what they've built or done, what advice would you give them?
Shamim Patel: I think we get very in our head about feeling like it is the end of the situation. And we don't give ourselves enough grace I do think a pause is very critical. It will be very helpful in allowing you to think clearly as well. And I think a large part of what helped to me is that I had some time to think. sometimes when you're just in the churn and you feel like you need to move to the right next thing, you can't do that because you haven't given your space yourself space to do that. so I my as hard as it is, as hard as it is, and I know it's hard, just give yourself the grace and pause and think and and breathe. And then I think I I believe the next thing will come.
Chris Cahill: you've mentioned several times your your network is your net worth. Is this somewhere you would leverage your network as well?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Absolutely. I think I had more reconnections and more dialogues in my pause than I ever did. And I think it's a great time to tap into your people. And I think this is the beautiful thing about humans. More people often than not want to help. And so just having those dialogues, just having those connections because now you're planting the seed. I'm a big believer in yes, tap into your network, reach out to your friends, colleagues, Drop in a LinkedIn message, send a quick text. I I still do all of that, not because I'm looking for something else. I just like to check in on people. And yes, your network is your net worth.
Chris Cahill: And then be open and curious, I think is really important. Yeah.
Shamim Patel: And be open and curious. Stay open and curious. Stay open and curious. Keep learning. There are things I'm learning every day. even being a SME in all things health IT informatics, I'm still learning, I'm still seeing new policies and new changes. And so keep reading, keep connecting, keep going to conferences. I think that's another great place to also network.
Chris Cahill: Yeah, but you have to be open and and curious to be able to find those opportunities. Yeah. So before we close out, is there any question that I didn't ask you that you wish I would have?
Shamim Patel: Yes. You have to do the thing. You didn't ask me what my favorite job was, but I don't have a favorite job. I think every job had its own season, right? And its own highs and lows. And when you begin to think in that capacity, they all become your favorites and they all become your least favorite. but I think that's just again perspective and time and experience.
Chris Cahill: I like that as a mindset though, because if you if you think about your career in terms of seasons, which I look back on my career and I I think about it the same way. I wish I would have thought about it as seasons very early in my career because seasons change and we need to change along with it. so I think that's a really important mindset that I've adopted that that I like that you brought up as well.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. you are what you think. And that builds your confidence. That's gonna give you the courage, that will continue to sharpen your curiosity, and you will continue to grow.
Chris Cahill: think that's the perfect place to close it out. I'm very curious to see what's next for you. It'll be interesting. And in the meantime, keep doing a great job at Abby.
Shamim Patel: Absolutely. Thanks so much, Chris. I appreciate you.
Shamim Patel: Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm excited to be here.
Chris Cahill: I've been following your career for a while and we worked together, which was a lot of fun and you've moved on to other things. I've gotten a ton of requests about career development and and I think you have a really neat story,
Shamim Patel: Well, I'm excited to talk about it. I think when we first talked about this concept, I think the thing that struck a chord with both of us was just the development for the future workforce. And so this is truly a topic that excites me.
Chris Cahill: Before we jump into it, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Hi everybody. I'm Shimen Patel. I am currently a chief of staff at ABV for the therapeutic area head of US specialty. And I have had an illustrious career over the last almost 20 years, really focused in on traditional health care and then non-traditional health care. And so those of you that may be listening that are more pharma focused, my career really took a pivot. after I decided to leave traditional healthcare and join the pharmaceutical industry. And so I've been a part of this system for the last 12 years.
Chris Cahill: And so in in that traditional healthcare model, what what did you do?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. I started out my career as a manager of medical records. It was a paper based environment, Chris. I really oversaw not just paper assemblers of what we were calling at that time HIM analysts, who were responsible for the integrity of the paper record and assembling it in a specific order. I also had coders and billers. And so think your traditional ICD9 hospital charging coding billing. And it was for the entire hospital system, inpatient, outpatient, emergency room. And it was a fairly large department that I oversaw. I had about 16 coders and billers and about 10. HIM analysts
Chris Cahill: what it sounds like is that you were essentially the chief puzzle solver
Shamim Patel: there were a lot and you can imagine, right? In a hospital, it's not just physicians that are looking for hospital records. Sometimes it's risk management, sometimes it's legal, sometimes it's utilization management. They need to go in and see what happened, why it happened. and so yes, we were definitely chief solvers and chasers.
Chris Cahill: And when you were in traditional healthcare, I'm I'm assuming timing wise you you kind of oversaw a a transition to digital as well, yes?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. And so as I was getting ready to have my first child, we were also implementing electronic barcoding system and so records could be tracked because as you can imagine, they were getting lost in in the shuffle, and we were in a transition plan from this hybrid model as we were calling at that time. To a full model. And that happened actually several years after I departed.
Chris Cahill: really interesting 'cause as as health systems continue to consolidate, these conversations are still ongoing,
Shamim Patel: And it takes a while, right? You have to think about capital infrastructure, people, processes, even just doing simple, what we think may be simple migrations has a very big impact, not just on revenue, but patient care.
Chris Cahill: you mentioned a pivot where you went from traditional to non-traditional in the care environment. Was there was there an event that caused that to happen? Was it you managing your career? Tell me about that.
Shamim Patel: I've been very lucky and blessed to have the network that I have had. And I always say your network is your net worth. And so my first boss, who is still my lifelong mentor, was my hiring manager at Rush Copley. And she was really instrumental as my go-to person and really helping me brainstorm ideas or just Talk through challenges, connect me to her network. And wherever she thought there was an opportunity, she would really try her best to plug me in. And so Pat again became my lifelong mentor, and her and I are still dear friends and colleagues. And then I ended up at Certification Commission for Health IT. And they were the first ONC authorized testing and certification body. Because at that time, the government had issued the American Recovery Reinvestment Act. It was like the thing to focus on in healthcare. joined that group and really oversaw certification coordination processes and so got deeper behind how technically EHR products like Cerner, Epic, all scripts were really being certified and tested in all of the components for meeting the standards, for security, compliance, HIPAA, e-prescribing and all of the really core components And I did that for almost a year. I did a very quick stint at Cigna for about a year and a half where I was managing enterprise data warehousing. And so there were no like major triggers or events that said, I need to do something different. but it was it was just an opportunity, and I saw the opportunity and I thought, why not, why not move and and take that opportunity? And so every pivot had led me to something not bigger, but in a way for me to challenge my thinking. Or learning or really serving in a different capacity. Because straight out of college, as I mentioned, I was managing a department of over 20 FTEs. And I vividly remember walking into the department and you know, I looked fairly young. And my team kept telling me, we have kids your age, that's okay. but during the course and duration, Of that management and of that team, we really became close. There were so many different things that each of the team members were either going through or had gone through, and just serving to be empathetic and really just being a leader that can listen. I think they didn't have that before. And so at that time I was also having my first child, as I mentioned. And so it just it became this really great group. Of individuals and I still keep in touch with some of them. But that was more about leadership and learning. And then some of the other roles I took after that focused in on governance and processes and becoming more of an operational SME. And so I really wanted to ensure I was diversifying how I was really managing my career. And so Cygna, I became more of an owner of enterprise data warehousing for. all the claims engines and then managing all the EDI mapping. They were very cumbersome to manage in detail, but that gave me gave me a different lens of ownership. and then after Cygna, I went back to corporate advocate. And then I oversaw I oversaw information governance. Whether it's in your physical records, whether it's in your EHRs, just the overall governance process of information. And I was able to create an infrastructure and also record record retention schedules, because that was a big deal. There were things being kept in off-site storage like Iron Mountain and not being purged, even though the state of Illinois at has their own set of rules and guidelines that are not the same as the federal guidelines. And that allowed me to really think through a bigger picture of not just state and local jurisdictions, but also at a federal level and then kind of create processes around that. And then I had my second baby. And then I was like, well, I don't know what I want to do next. And I was tapped on the shoulder from Pat, And she's like, hey, I have this job at Pfizor that's really serving to be this health IT SME. And I was like, Pat, I don't know. I've, you know, I just had a baby. I'm not really sure if this is ideal because I knew it entailed Travel, and that's not something I had done in my career for the first five years, You know, it's it's what you want to do, it's what you make of it. The only catch was that the field role was based in California. And so I really took a risk and and a gamble again, born and raised in Chicago, never went far from the nest. I really never even traveled much, Chris. and it really expanded my horizons because she was able to convince me and I had a six month old in tow. I was nursing, then I was pumping at airports because as you can imagine, field role, California based, I was on the road a lot. And so I was on the road probably for 85% of my first year and a half at Pfizer because I was covering the West Coast. And so I wanted to show a lot of good intention and effort and Thankfully, I am blessed, like I've said, not just with people and mentors, but with family. And they have always been by my side and helped taken care and raise my children. And so my mom was able to stay with my son while I was doing the Pfizer role when he was so tiny. and so she she would stay with my husband and My daughter and I would be on the road. And so I did that for almost, yeah, a year and a half, maybe two years. And then Pat and I were colleagues and then she moved on to a different pharma organization. And so I got a really good stronghold on what that capability, competency could really do for medical groups, integrated delivery networks, academic centers, key accounts in general. And I really felt like it was a feather in my cap and it was a great way to really interject with the key account management organization. So shout out to all of my Pfizer cams who were really active and in using this capability as a way in, not just to these key decision makers, but as a way to really do something. Of meaning and population health management at that time, this is 2014, was really the core way of engaging around quality improvement and really finding shared priorities and areas of alignment. And so did that for almost five years. And then Novartis came tapping on my shoulder and said, Hey, we kind of like what you're doing here at Pfizer. Would you be interested in in building this out? For us at Novartas. and I was like, man, I'm really comfortable at Pfizer, you know, I'm I'm I'm doing my thing. And it was a risk, but it was a great risk. And I'm again, I I think what I'm trying to highlight is at every point you are going to get opportunities. that are either risks as as you may deem, or just you know, great comfortable roles that you can transition into. But I took a risk and because I was moving from a director level at Pfizer to an associate director level at Novartis. I wasn't going to have the support I had at Pfizer, right? I remember my first meeting with legal and compliance at Novartis, I I get to. And Mike, who him and I catch up often, he's like, hey, I think you need to go back to Pfizer. This H I T thing is not gonna work here at Navardis. And I remember like feeling so deflated and crushed. and I just kind of took it in in the moment. I I do a lot of that. If there's something I don't like, I'll just smile through it and kind of keep chugging and then reconvene. And so I didn't really take no for an answer, then I came back a few weeks later with a plan and why it works and what it will do and how I've seen it actually work. and and the rest is history. I feel very proud of what I was able to build at Navartas. I started out in heart failure and then launched LECVIO, And then we scaled to the enterprise and then launched three oncology products. And so it was just a really beautiful labor of love in in my career where I've actually been able to build something from the ground up, give it legs and and teach it how to walk and talk and and then really see it expand and go.
Chris Cahill: that's where our paths crossed at Novartis. before we talk more about that and go a little deeper, I have a couple of follow-up questions because as I listened to you, you use the word risk several times. I'm curious, looking back on some of these things, it probably seemed like a risk at the time. When you got into it, did it feel like a risk or was was the perceived versus actual risk different once you got into it?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think in traditional healthcare, there's probably less risk. I think in life sciences pharma, there's probably more of a risk in the sense of security, right? so perceived risk is probably very accurate. and I do think a lot of it has to do with security in the sense of, ooh, does does anybody understand what this capability is? Again, I did something very niche, unique. and and narrow and so it was not a language everyone was accustomed to speaking and so it was definitely a perceived risk in after reflection in my opinion because it wasn't as innate as omnichannel marketing or let's do a DTC, right? It's it's it was a very different way of working and thinking and collaborating across every channel and thinking through that. And so the perceived risk was probably more internal in how I felt in belonging or not being of the pharma kin and not really having had that traditional pharma experience, even though I came over from another pharma company, I was still very narrow in what I was doing.
Chris Cahill: I think this is an interesting one though, because a lot of people will forego opportunities because of that risk. They'll they'll stick with the the perceived certainty. I this is something I think about a lot because there's risk to perceived certainty as well. in an ever changing environment, I think we need to think about risk in a different way because as I listen to you, what I'm hearing is that you're learning and you're growing. even though you're taking perceived risks, I think there would be more risk to actually staying where you were because you wouldn't be learning and growing.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. I love that. And I think that's exactly why I ended up at Abvi in a completely different capacity, chief of staff. And that is because A, I wanted to prove to myself that I can continue to learn and grow and do things that were hard for me. it's not easy walking into a completely new organization, number one. I think people are also averse to taking that risk. And changing and moving jobs from a stability perspective, which I totally respect, However, at the same time, it does also offer you the opportunity to learn new things, learn a new company, learn new ways of working, meet new people. I started with your network is your net worth, And it really broadens your horizons. Like I'm involved in processes that I never thought I would be from operations to communications to strategic planning, right? And so it really just stretches you in ways and capacities that you didn't think you could be stretched in. And I continue to surprise myself because I'm like, I I didn't know what I was doing, but I handled that well, right? Like I I can give myself that credit and I can acknowledge that it was hard at the same time. And not give up on investing in yourself. Because a lot of this is also self-investment, right? Like, what are you going to do with this learning? How are you going to apply it in the future? And a large part for me is also focusing on the next generation of the workforce, whether it's my kids who will some point enter. workforce. but also just the broader community mentorship is critical, Like how do you continue to push people to think? I think we have a lot of conveniences and we tend to get very comfortable and we have to do more with getting uncomfortable
Chris Cahill: So let's talk about being uncomfortable. You you stepped into this role at Abvi where you self admittedly said you didn't know what you were doing. I beg to differ. You you always figure things out. but when there isn't a clear bru blueprint, what what are some of the things that you do to first assess the situation?
Shamim Patel: I am so big, Chris, in relationship building, right? I think that is the biggest lever anyone can have. because you're seeking to understand, to listen. I think all of those very basic skills we need to operate as humans or within teams or in individual companies. That has been so critical. So building relationships has been a key lever for me. because sometimes if they don't know who you are, as you send an email, as you send a request, it's kind of easy for them to just say no or turn you away or to assume, hey, this is irrelevant for me. and so that was my number one agenda item as I stepped into this role. Because I do think there's a lot also. With the art of influencing when you build relationships, not in a manipulative way, right? But in a way where you contextually can verbalize and fill in gaps of why does this have to happen now? What is the urgency, right? and you know, in this capacity, I do tend to fight fight a lot of fire drills, is just the role and the nature. Of what I do. And so having that as a lever can really be helpful. and then beyond that is is okay, once I've built the relationship, do I feel like I'm in good rapport or is there trust? Do we have a cadence of communication? I think all of that matters so much in what you do and how you show up. And then I've had to learn a lot around just processes, Like what can we do to ensure there's processes in place? What are we doing to ensure continuity of business? And I think that has been something that I've been very clear. About how it is that it can either be improved or sustained over time. So people understand, hey, there's there's an ultimate enterprise vision or bigger reason for the why.
Chris Cahill: It's interesting because from a career perspective, what you're describing are skills that transcend all your roles, right? These are just foundational skills. So when you switch identities, you're using the same type of skills to be successful.
Shamim Patel: Yeah, yeah. And I think I wrote a LinkedIn post about this, right? Like people will always matter because they are at the core of everything we do. even with AI taking over, the human side of us will never really truly change. We will all still need to learn how to navigate emotions and navigate people and personalities and asks and priorities and so yeah I don't think that that will ever change.
Chris Cahill: so another question around kind of identity and and when you switch titles, you talked about going from a subject matter expert to a leader to now a chief of staff. How do you stay confident when you're new in title? You mentioned you went from director to associate director and didn't have support and were told no. Where does that confidence come from for you?
Shamim Patel: I don't like to be overly confident. and I I don't talk about like awards and titles or what I've done in my career, I lean in more around building these connections that I know I will need in an effort to move forward. And I think that helps me build my confidence. Quite a bit, because I'm like, man, I did good today. So I think a lot of my confidence comes from my ability to have some of those dialogues and move the needle and what I like to view as making an impact, right? and I think that's one thing that I've been coaching. A lot of my a lot of the folks that I talk to around career development or how they should view their career, I always highlight it is critical to focus on the outcomes and the impact you are making to ensure that there's visibility, And so I think we get very fixated on checking off a list and focusing on just responsibilities, which are of course critical and necessary to do your job, but it's not the entire job, right? I've been very focused on driving my confidence through the outcomes and the impact I make.
Chris Cahill: that's a really important one because a lot of people focus on the visibility versus the impact. but if you're truly making impact, it becomes visible, There's value there that's associated with it.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well said.
Chris Cahill: So I'm curious your answer. What's next for you?
Shamim Patel: I don't know. I think I wrote about this on LinkedIn too. I'm not sure. you know, I I do kind of go through this like tug of war between like, do I stay to be a generalist? Do I continue to my path of being a SME? I want to stay curious. I think that is something that I didn't do enough of. And if I could go back and reflect and see what I can change, I want to stay more curious. But at the same rate, I feel like I was curious because I've taken those risks and changed organizations and built new things and tried new therapeutic areas.
Chris Cahill: So I think this is a critical one that I talk to a lot of people about and they're beating themselves up because they don't have a plan or a role that they're targeting. But what I'm hearing from you is a is a mindset of learning. And you know, I I wonder what your thoughts are on why why is it so uncomfortable for people to say, I don't know.
Shamim Patel: This is Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of some of the things we've already touched on. It's it's an uncomfortable feeling, Chris. I, you know, my my husband's been reorged out before, and and there there there's a lot of feelings with that. and I actually remember for a second of being vulnerable here. I remember when I left in OVARTA, I didn't know what to do with myself. I felt my entire identity as a person, as a human, was tied to being this executive director of health IT precision medicine. and I I I feel like I could not sleep. It it was very hard to disassociate and detach. Cause I I was very short-sighted in in my view. I reflected and I was like, wait, I'm a whole human being. I have two kids, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a friend, I volunteer, I mentor, I'm connected in my community, right? There are so many other things that we tend to push to the background and deprioritize. But I feel like all of those became much more important for me. And I think that mindset also helped me really pivot on my career focus as well. Am I losing steam in my career because of the my mindset? Absolutely not. you know, but it it's helping me balance my perspective. And I think perspective is something, that is so critical. I think that has really shaped my mindset and has really proven that I am more. I am more than just a title. I was volunteering pretty heavily with Shite Care, which is a not for profit in the Chicagoland area. They have been on this beautiful mission of serving home cooked or warm meals. to the homeless population in Chicago. And they go out every day. And so just to see the spirit of that and channeling a little bit of your identity loss and putting it into perspective really helped shape me. I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? Who am I? From a career perspective, I'm lost. I don't know who who I can be. And then I think all of these life events have really helped shape and and guide my mindset.
Chris Cahill: Would you do anything differently if you had to do it again?
Shamim Patel: I really don't think so. I'm of the mindset that every every bit of my career shaped the next phase of it and led me to different, more curious, more challenging places and spaces. And I'm proud of that. And I feel like I am here because of everything I did in the past.
Chris Cahill: let's give people some advice if they're at a crossroad or thinking about changes in their career. If someone listening feels pulled towards something new, but they're worried about wasting what they've built or done, what advice would you give them?
Shamim Patel: I think we get very in our head about feeling like it is the end of the situation. And we don't give ourselves enough grace I do think a pause is very critical. It will be very helpful in allowing you to think clearly as well. And I think a large part of what helped to me is that I had some time to think. sometimes when you're just in the churn and you feel like you need to move to the right next thing, you can't do that because you haven't given your space yourself space to do that. so I my as hard as it is, as hard as it is, and I know it's hard, just give yourself the grace and pause and think and and breathe. And then I think I I believe the next thing will come.
Chris Cahill: you've mentioned several times your your network is your net worth. Is this somewhere you would leverage your network as well?
Shamim Patel: Yeah. Absolutely. I think I had more reconnections and more dialogues in my pause than I ever did. And I think it's a great time to tap into your people. And I think this is the beautiful thing about humans. More people often than not want to help. And so just having those dialogues, just having those connections because now you're planting the seed. I'm a big believer in yes, tap into your network, reach out to your friends, colleagues, Drop in a LinkedIn message, send a quick text. I I still do all of that, not because I'm looking for something else. I just like to check in on people. And yes, your network is your net worth.
Chris Cahill: And then be open and curious, I think is really important. Yeah.
Shamim Patel: And be open and curious. Stay open and curious. Stay open and curious. Keep learning. There are things I'm learning every day. even being a SME in all things health IT informatics, I'm still learning, I'm still seeing new policies and new changes. And so keep reading, keep connecting, keep going to conferences. I think that's another great place to also network.
Chris Cahill: Yeah, but you have to be open and and curious to be able to find those opportunities. Yeah. So before we close out, is there any question that I didn't ask you that you wish I would have?
Shamim Patel: Yes. You have to do the thing. You didn't ask me what my favorite job was, but I don't have a favorite job. I think every job had its own season, right? And its own highs and lows. And when you begin to think in that capacity, they all become your favorites and they all become your least favorite. but I think that's just again perspective and time and experience.
Chris Cahill: I like that as a mindset though, because if you if you think about your career in terms of seasons, which I look back on my career and I I think about it the same way. I wish I would have thought about it as seasons very early in my career because seasons change and we need to change along with it. so I think that's a really important mindset that I've adopted that that I like that you brought up as well.
Shamim Patel: Yeah. you are what you think. And that builds your confidence. That's gonna give you the courage, that will continue to sharpen your curiosity, and you will continue to grow.
Chris Cahill: think that's the perfect place to close it out. I'm very curious to see what's next for you. It'll be interesting. And in the meantime, keep doing a great job at Abby.
Shamim Patel: Absolutely. Thanks so much, Chris. I appreciate you.
