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Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code, where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I'm your host, rams this job Today's guest. Ammy Horwitz is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and director of Amy on the Loose, a satirical short film series. He is also the host of a recent documentary, The Art of War, look into the practices of the IDA. Ammy recently went to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask students to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they learn to see if they lean more Republican or a Democrat. Amy, Welcome back to the show. Man. How you doing, oh.
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Speaker 2: Man, Such a pleasure, doing great. Always nanks to see your face, either in person or on camera, but I'll take on camera.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know what you mean, man. I miss you.
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Speaker 3: Man.
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Speaker 1: First off, you know some some housekeeping, man, how's your family? How's your mom doing?
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Speaker 4: Thank god? Everyone as well.
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Speaker 1: About everybody's thriving over here.
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Speaker 3: Man.
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Speaker 1: So so for listeners who have maybe come to the show more recently, Amy is uh is my brother? Uh he is my brother. That I have chosen. I believe that you probably reckon it the same way. I know that you feel the same way, but I'm not sure if you make if you would use the same language. Okay, very good, Amy and I, Uh, it's it's sort of a running joke now. But Amy and I we see the world in in very different ways, and we disagree about much of our politics, but we have chosen to remain brothers throughout everything, and I think that we provide each other at least an additional aperture into what our political opposition looks like. Uh So, in this conversation, it's important to note that I'm talking with my brother, and I love him. We are going to disagree. We are very passionate, I think about how we feel, and at the end of this, we are going to still love each other. We've been on this path for some years now, and I you know, around here we are very selective with the people that we have on as guests. Amy is an honored guest, and you know, I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. So Tommy, talk to me. I mentioned a bit about about your film The Blind Taste Test Challenge at the Los Angeles Southwest College. But you know, bring our listeners into to what happened on the campus, what you learned, what you saw, and maybe some of the conclusions. I know that this film was a little different at the end because you actually had a bit of a recap. So again, for folks that haven't seen it, bring everybody yet.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I'm so excited to have talked talked to you about this particular video. I mean, we talked about a bunch of them, but this is one in particular, and you and I've actually talked about this a little bit before. Yeah, So it's kind of my view is that the dirty little secret of the black community is they're a little more conservative than people think.
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Speaker 4: That they are.
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Speaker 2: And I think that people like you know, I think one of the driving forces for me and my political viewpoint has always been through the lens of faith and God, and that kind of led me down a certain ideological and political path, right, kind of colors the way I view the world. Like everybody you know, based on their lived experiences, that's the way they kind of view the lens of the world, which makes total sense. Use the word before aperture. It's a great word, and so much applies to this in particular, and the Black community is a community of great and deep faith. I think they're probably the single largest demographic that supports God. Here's a percentage of the people support God, and I think that's a lot of how they kind of view the ideological world. Obviously, there's no doubt we all know that black community has voted Democrats for decades and decades, very similar in a lot of ways. Actually, the Jewish community that actually black people and the Jewish community supported Republicans after Lincoln because they viewed the Republican Party as a party of social justice. And what happened was after Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, that kind of shifted actually in a similar times for both communities. I think the Black community, maybe a little bit earlier, moved toward the Democratic Party, but the Democratic Party had a lot of issues at the time. Also, right, a lot of the Southern Democrats, the Dixie Democrats, were just among the most racist politicians that exist, even more the Republicans, like you know, it was a legacy of slavery. But over a period of time around that time, the Black community moved away from the Republicans and moved toward the Democrats clicking the sixties right.
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Speaker 3: Uh.
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Speaker 2: During Lyndon Johnson's time in particular, Uh, it became pretty strong Democrats and that has nothing has changed. And in this video when I when I went and I spoke these young people in this community college, I chose a community college in particular as opposed to going to like a larger four year university. Uh, we can talk about that also, but I chose that really in particular. I asked, like, how do you guys view yourselves Republican Democrat? And there was a single student who who self identify as Republican, right, which wasn't surprising. And then we did the kind of like you said, the taste the taste test is test. And I thought it was the sweetest video I've ever made. It was it was the reactions which was so heartfelt and real and genuine, like their surprise, their their shock in some cases, right. I thought it was really insightful and sweet and genuine and really is one of my most favorite videos I have ever made, and one of my favorite videos. I've discussed that a couple of times, not that many times, and every time I watch the video it brings us big smile to my face, not just because you know, I shade it toward obviously towards you know that they show themselves to be more conservative than liberal. If you don't want to call a republic democrat. That also makes sense. The world has changed in terms of how people lay themselves. But I thought just the reaction to it was so interesting and sweet and real. I love this video, really was. It was an important video to they.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to add to that that around here, we deal in data, and we deal with credible sources, and so if I may, I will extend my I will vouch for what it is people might see in the video because I know historically speaking it to be true that you don't tailor or doctor your videos to suggest something that you might have come to the table, like a preconceived notion. You don't edit people out who don't give you the answers that you don't want. You let let it kind of fly. And uh, I mean, please feel free to that our listener knows.
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Speaker 2: That my best videos are the ones where I came in like I always go with the preconceived notion. Sure, just like I'm always like, here's why I think this is gonna shake down. Sometimes it doesn't. And I gotta be honest and.
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Speaker 1: You don't doctor it.
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Speaker 4: Yep, I don't doctor Look I edit, yeah, of course.
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Speaker 1: But you don't edit people out that. I just want to make sure our listeners know.
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Speaker 2: Everyone the the the thrust of what you hear is what the thrust.
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Speaker 4: Of of everyone sposed to.
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Speaker 1: So so yeah, so in some of the.
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Speaker 2: Best videos are when I come in with a preconceived notion and what I get was different, even most interesting. So yeah, that's really important to me that you that you hear and you see what I saw felt right.
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Speaker 1: That that's exactly what I'm saying. It's an honest So so before we get too far, we want to do this again at the end. But let people know where they can find this video online.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, they can go to at Amy Horowitz on any of the social media.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, now again I said that to say that what you're looking at when you're looking at a film from Amy is something that is the real deal. It's not doctored to create a narrative that is not accurate. This is data. This is you know, what Amy gets from the ground, so you.
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Speaker 4: Can have it's anecdotal.
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Speaker 2: It's anecdotal in the sense that like, look, it's just the people I talk to.
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Speaker 1: No, I get it.
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Speaker 2: But yeah, but data and anecdote together are powerful.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go with that. I just want to make sure because there's a lot of content creators and a lot of people out there that make content, and they will edit out things that don't support what they want to say, and they leave in the things that do say what they will or affirm what they what they believe, or what they want to get off. And that's not what you're doing here. So I want our listeners to be able to trust and what they see is more or less what happened on the street. So that's I appreciate you helping me share that with him. But you know, again, Amy would not be a friend of the show, and Amy would not be on the show so frequently, I mean, would not be a person that I bounce ideas off and uh, you know, get ideas from if Amy was not a credible journalist in his own right. And so that's my my co sign for what it is you've done with that said, of course you're here sort of in the lions den for me to challenge a lot of what it is that you know, you have discovered, uncovered, you know whatever, and so this is the conversation we want to have. So I took I took the liberty of kind of putting together the questions for folks whoever not yet able to see the film or you know, maybe they were going to get to it at some point in the future. So I want to share the questions and sort of what I saw when I saw the film. So the first question, again, you're on a college campus, you're and it's a it's a city college, a junior college. So these are among the youngest of the young students that you're gonna find at that level of you know, education. First question, should women be able to get a late term abortion? I took the text exactly as you asked it, you know, to the to the participants. So should women be able to get a late term abortion? And it was sort of a yes no question, and everyone answered accordingly. Should we spend more time and effort stopping illegal immigration or less time? Okay, just as as we're playing it as it lies. Should parents have more control over education or less control over education? And you know, as you're listening, feel free to kind of formulate your own opinions because this is an honest conversation as we have. Next question says should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes? Next one, should we generally have more policing or less policing? Again, the idea being that one answer would suggest that you might lean Democrat at least in that area, and obviously the opposite answer. This is a binary, so we're going to get one answer that suggests that you have democratic values, another one that suggests you have Republican or conservative values. Next question, should we allow children to medically transition? Next question, should we allow males to transition to females to compete in sports? And then finally, should we spend more money on social programs and have higher debt or spend less money on social programs and less debt? And I apologize, there's actually it looks like there might be more Should someone show ID to vote? And I think that was the last. Oh, sorry, more regulations and higher taxes to stop climate change or less regulations and lower taxes to spur the economy. So these were the questions that were asked, and you at the end you compiled the answers from each individual person and you let them know whether or not they actually align in terms of their answers with a Republican voter or with a Democratic voter. And again the results, as you mentioned, they were surprising. Everybody seemed like they were having a good time. The individual that took the test, they seemed very shocked, and some of them said, you know, comments like man, I really need to rethink this, or you know all that sort of stuff. Right, do I have it?
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Speaker 3: Right?
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Speaker 1: Did I paint?
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Speaker 2: And I specifically included the exact question and every so people same question.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So people can say like, look, I think you shaded it one way or the other, and that's a fair, totally fair. But I wanted everyone to know exactly what I asked, so they had contacts and they can make the own decision whether or not they think that's actually Look, some Democrats will say to me, well, wait, I believe in more policing and less policing, so why is that Republican notion? That's totally fair, and I'm obviously a generalization for the most part. Yeah, of course, But I wanted people to hear the entire question and they can make their own decision and whether or not they agree that that's more Republican Democrats.
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Speaker 1: Now, before we get into the weeds here, I want to know what you expected when you went to this camp. And I think that our listeners should know kind of what you expected, because you're a person that deals in I mean, you have conversations related to politics professionally and of course personally, and this is like, this is your bag, man, You're in your bag. So what did you went to this college intentionally? You talk to these students intentionally? What was your expectation. We know that you were surprised, but what did you think was going to happen?
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Speaker 2: So I suspect that it was going to be majority Republican, Like I guess if we talked to you know, fifty twenty people, if you asked me to say a guess, I'd probably say, like, I guess me twelve thirteen like a majority, but not a not an overwalling majority. And I and again, I specifically went to community college on purpose because I do feel that when kids go to a community college and doesn't matter you're white or black, or you know, what your background is, I think there's less of a focus when it comes to what you're learning on ideology from either side, because you're there to get education, and a lot of times they're for two years. They're just two year colleges. You're moving on from there. I think they're less steeped in doctrine, less steep in politics. I think they're more like, hey, man, you're here for education and all the other stuff. Way to you go to UCLA or Berkeley or the other schools, then ideology will come into the place. So I chose that specifically. I think that was a good idea. But yeah, I assumed majority, but not an overalling majority.
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Speaker 4: That's why. That's why I thought coming in.
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Speaker 1: Okay, and then your results surprised you. So it was an overwhelming majority or or.
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Speaker 4: I think it was everything. I think it was every single.
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Speaker 1: Person, every single person. Okay, good, okay, so real quick. Amy Horwitz is here with us today. Amy is an American conservative documentary filmmaker. He is a dear friend of mine and a friend of the show, of course, and we're talking about a recent film he made. Having gone to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask students to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they lean more Republican or Democrat. As Amy just mentioned, the ready assumption was that, you know, most people would say that they were Democrat and ultimately after the challenge would end up learning that they held more conservative beliefs. And Amy was pleasantly surprised to uh learn that that was indeed true. Now I want to go through these uh quickly. We don't have to take too much time. But I made some notes and I've campaigned them. I've had a few days to kind of sit with this, and I want to challenge this. I love what you said about, Hey, you can talk to a Democrat and say, hey, do you want more or less policing? And a Democrat might say more policing and have you know, democratic values across the board and still want more policing. That doesn't necessarily or in and of itself mean that a person it has a conservative or a Republican belief And I realize that you're painting with broad strokes and this is content creation and so forth, but I do have to go ahead.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying you have to as video, and I totally acknowledge that there's always some deficiencies when you when you give the broad rush, but you get the general jest.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and now you know me, I'm going right for the deficiencies. So let me stretch. Get ready to get into it. Okay, all right, let's go to the first one, should women be able to get a late term abortion? That was the question, should women be able to get a late term abortion? Here I witnessed people, Uh, it seemed to me like there was an emotional response indeed to a lot of these questions. A lot of these questions. People they had these strong reactions ooh ah, that's a good one, you know that sort of thing.
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Speaker 2: Right, they were so thoughtful about that, right, jump to an answer like, oh, you know what, let me marin it.
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Speaker 4: I think one remerited on this.
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Speaker 3: I love that.
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Speaker 4: That's you know, they really they took it seriously. They didn't take us a joke. And I really appreciated that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And that's that's what you said it better than I could. That's more or less what I was trying to say. So again, the question should women be able to get a late term abortion? I think, and again I have campaign this isn't just in my head, but I think that this sort of ignores the question asked, stated across the board to all the folks, it ignores that late term abortions, generally speaking, they only take place when something significant has happened, or are there significant risk to the baby or to the mother some complication with the pregnancy. Typically, a person does not get pregnant, get to the point where they know that they're pregnant, and then get to the end of it. By then they've picked out a name, they have like, you know, they're excited for their baby to come. So generally speaking, when that happens, it's not you know what, I'm seven months and I just don't really I'm not feeling it anymore. That's not the majority of late term abortions that take place. Typically, it's a very sad thing, right, So to ask that question in that way, should women be able to get a late term abortion, I think it ignores the reality and what the data suggests is really taking place in that in that chapter of a pregnancy. Furthermore, it's again it's not often the the case that a woman will wait to the third trimester. But what I think we've seen with the Supreme Court sort of sending this decision down to the states now Southern states get to legislate from the Bible, right where they believe in miracles and they believe that the will of God said the baby should you know whatever? And it you know, we don't know if the fetus is not going to be viable long term, if they're significant rest of the mother, how do you value one over the other? That sort of thing. And the states are doing this from the Bible and instead of case by case basis between a woman, her husband often enough or the father of the child and their medical provider, right, and so rather than taking a pragmatic approach to medicine that's based in science and data and so forth, these Southern states will legislate from the Bible, as they often do, and that leaves a lot to be desired. To put it mildly, because I realized that the show is right. And again to simply ask if a woman should be allowed to get a late term abortion, it almost frames the question as if it's like simply a choice, again, which largely isn't true. It's usually a or it is a choice, I suppose, but not a choice that is a cavalier one. And to align a response of no with Republicans I think that that might ignore the complexities of the politics surrounding the issue. Democrats, generally speaking, think the issue should be again a decision between a woman and her health care provider, and Republicans believe that it's an issue for the state. And I think that the more appropriate question to ask is should this decision be between a woman and a health care provider or should this decision be between the state and a woman? And I think that in that question you might get some more precise responses that a align more ideologically speaking with Democrats and Republicans, and B you still get the emotional response from the folks that are doing the taste has challenge. You get everything that you need there, but you also get a sense of how people arrive at their conclusions and why. And I know that it's it's not a much longer question. In fact, I think it's the same amount of letters I or words rather because I did this because I'm like, how do I say this to Ami? Because I know that's a good faith question on your end. But I don't think it's as simple as should women be able to get late term abortions? Yes or no? Yes means that you're a Democrat, No means you're a Republican. And again I know that that's not the point. This isn't purely scientific. This is just to let people know that there's a different paradigm to which they could align themselves with if they so chose. However, I just wanted to submit that to you and see what you thought before we moved a question.
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Speaker 2: Too totally fair, and I'll just I'll say that so I chose that the wording specifically, So had I change the wording to should we make illegal a late term abortion that's by choice and not a medical issue? I would submit to you that one hunt every single person I spoke to would say no.
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Speaker 3: My guess is, and that's a guest. I don't know.
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Speaker 2: It wouldn't have been like I think that abortion question was. I don't remember all the numbers, but I think maybe it was like sixty percent or we're against it and forty percent were for it. Had I changed the language say by choice, it would have been overwhelmingly yes. I left it a little bit open so they could also say, like, it includes all things, including.
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Speaker 3: If there were medical issues.
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Speaker 2: Now, my interestingly, my personal opinion is that if a woman is has a later abortion and her life is on the line. For I'm a pretty moderate abortion no question that abortion should should be legal, right, that's my belief. It's actually more, it's actually a very Jewish belief. I'll push back on one thing.
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Speaker 3: Couple.
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Speaker 2: One thing in particular is that and and by the way, and not not that you. I mean it's hard to I assumed you were right before. I did actually research on this for a Dishman issue a couple of years ago, that when you said that the vast majority of later abortions are not choice, Like, hey man, you know what, I'm six months in I'm I don't want to do this, and there for medical reasons. I thought the same thing. So there's I wish I had it on me. I can look it up maybe over a break. So it was study was done by I think it's called the Haymaker Institute. It's a pro abortion probably the biggest pro abortion think tank in the country, and they did analysis for a few thousand women who got later abortions, but what your choices were, and shockingly, and I was shocked, the majority of women who got the abortions did it.
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Speaker 3: But it was not a medical reason.
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Speaker 2: It was I broke up with my boyfriend or husband, I realized the abortion clinic is too far away from my house.
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Speaker 3: Actually, things that are I don't want.
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Speaker 2: To say trivial or cavalier, you said, which is a great word, it turned out. And again I wish I had the data in front of me, because the data is really important. But this institute called, and I'll look it up in the brain, the High Micro Institute. It's a big pro abortion. Clearly institute did say that it did. They were surprised also that it was a majority. It wasn't an overalling majority, but it was a majority of women who did it by choice. Having said that, I don't want to take away the choice of any woman who wants to get an abortion for medical reasons, because that is I think psychro sync and I think is important.
00:24:41
Speaker 3: And you're right.
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Speaker 2: The language that I use was was very broad, but broad on purpose.
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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I'll go with that. And again, this is simply a discussion. I want our listeners to to watch this because I listen to Amy. You know, this is the Black Information Network, this is Radio PACIFICA, this is you know, this is the show is shared widely. You know, I heard everything like that. And so there's a lot of different people with a lot of different beliefs, and you know, people might, as you mentioned, you know you're a moderate on this, you might be lean more conservative on that, you might lean more liberal on something else. You know, Lord knows you and I have had conversations where you've met me where I am, and I'm surprised by that. I'm sure the day will come when I'll meet you somewhere, because I I you're a brilliant mind, and you know I will get there. I do maintain that it is not impossible. It's unlikely, but not impossible.
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Speaker 3: Right, Oh, that is It is my one goal of life.
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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm right here with you life so real quick. Just to add and please you know you do it yourself. Just because I had a moment while you were chatting, I googled it. Are the majority of late term abortions medically necessarily sary or simply a choice? And what I got back says abortions performed later in pregnancy at or after twenty one weeks are rare, accounting for about one percent of all US procedures. Research indicates that these later procedure stem from a mix of severe medical complications, fetal anomalies, and systemic barriers that delay care, rather than a simple elective choice. So at least in that first paragraph, it's it's it's leaning in that direction of this isn't something where a person is like, you know what, I'm eight months pregnant, he's not really feeling anymore. Let's get this baby up out here. However, as you mentioned over the break, i'd love for you to find that data because we like I would love for you to tell me something that I don't know. I know you love when I tell you something that you don't know. But I want to make sure we get enough in the show to where we can really address all of this stuff. So so for now we'll move on. Well, actually, you know what.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: Could we could do a whole show by the way on AI and how AI.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: How it aggregates information? Yeah, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And again, I don't know that this is right or wrong. I'm just letting you know what I found so that you can come back. I fully expect that what you said is accurate and you're going to have everything. I don't think you would just say that if it wasn't true or if he didn't come across it right, so please by all means, uh, you know, help help.
00:27:05
Speaker 2: I did the research specifically for an X that we had a debate on Gotcha, gotcha? And I was like, I'm gonna actually do a deep dive.
00:27:12
Speaker 1: On Okay, all right, well real quick, don't forget that. If you are locked in online and you want to get the full unedited version, do us favor visit our website civiccite for dot com. Don't forget. You can find Amy and his film on all of his platforms at Amy Horowitz h O R O W I t Z amy spelled a M. I also want to take a moment to tease the rest of the show before we break, so again, uh. The upcoming question? Should we spend more time and efforts stopping illegal immigration or less time? Should parents have more control over education or less control over education? Should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes. Should we generally have more policing or less policing? Uh? Should we allow children to medically transition? Should we allow males to transition to female to compete in sports? Should we spend more money on social programs and have higher debt or less money on social programs and have less debt should someone show ID to vote, And more regulations and higher taxes to stop climate change, or less regulations and lower taxes to spur the economy. So all those questions we are going to be asking. Are we going to be investigating AMI's answers that he uncovered at the college in Los Angeles, And of course I'm going to be pushing back in terms of the framing of the questions and the responses and whether or not they actually lean Democrat or Republican, or conservative or progressive. And also I think that a little later on the show, we're going to have to have a conversation I'm sure you'd agree on me about how diverse any population can be in terms of their thoughts, but in a binary how and why I do we see such a stark contrast in terms of the way that black people vote, men and women relative to the general population. So again, a lot to stick around for, and provided we have enough time to get to it, because I think that Immy and I are really good at debating, We're going to do our best to get to all that. So again, Amy Horowitz, if you want to check him out on all social media, and while you're at it, be sure to give us a followers well at Civic sieher c ib C C I P h e R. I'm Rams' job. While you're at it, be sure to give me a follow as well as Q. You can find him at I am q Ward. And as I mentioned, we'll be back in Justice Sec. To have the rest of this fascinating conversation with the great Ammy Horowitz, dear friend of the show, masterful orator and one of the great debaters that I know, so a lot to stick around for, and hopefully you do. We'll see into Justice Sec.
Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code, where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I'm your host, rams this job Today's guest. Ammy Horwitz is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and director of Amy on the Loose, a satirical short film series. He is also the host of a recent documentary, The Art of War, look into the practices of the IDA. Ammy recently went to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask students to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they learn to see if they lean more Republican or a Democrat. Amy, Welcome back to the show. Man. How you doing, oh.
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Speaker 2: Man, Such a pleasure, doing great. Always nanks to see your face, either in person or on camera, but I'll take on camera.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know what you mean, man. I miss you.
00:00:52
Speaker 3: Man.
00:00:54
Speaker 1: First off, you know some some housekeeping, man, how's your family? How's your mom doing?
00:00:59
Speaker 4: Thank god? Everyone as well.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: About everybody's thriving over here.
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Speaker 3: Man.
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Speaker 1: So so for listeners who have maybe come to the show more recently, Amy is uh is my brother? Uh he is my brother. That I have chosen. I believe that you probably reckon it the same way. I know that you feel the same way, but I'm not sure if you make if you would use the same language. Okay, very good, Amy and I, Uh, it's it's sort of a running joke now. But Amy and I we see the world in in very different ways, and we disagree about much of our politics, but we have chosen to remain brothers throughout everything, and I think that we provide each other at least an additional aperture into what our political opposition looks like. Uh So, in this conversation, it's important to note that I'm talking with my brother, and I love him. We are going to disagree. We are very passionate, I think about how we feel, and at the end of this, we are going to still love each other. We've been on this path for some years now, and I you know, around here we are very selective with the people that we have on as guests. Amy is an honored guest, and you know, I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. So Tommy, talk to me. I mentioned a bit about about your film The Blind Taste Test Challenge at the Los Angeles Southwest College. But you know, bring our listeners into to what happened on the campus, what you learned, what you saw, and maybe some of the conclusions. I know that this film was a little different at the end because you actually had a bit of a recap. So again, for folks that haven't seen it, bring everybody yet.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I'm so excited to have talked talked to you about this particular video. I mean, we talked about a bunch of them, but this is one in particular, and you and I've actually talked about this a little bit before. Yeah, So it's kind of my view is that the dirty little secret of the black community is they're a little more conservative than people think.
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Speaker 4: That they are.
00:03:15
Speaker 2: And I think that people like you know, I think one of the driving forces for me and my political viewpoint has always been through the lens of faith and God, and that kind of led me down a certain ideological and political path, right, kind of colors the way I view the world. Like everybody you know, based on their lived experiences, that's the way they kind of view the lens of the world, which makes total sense. Use the word before aperture. It's a great word, and so much applies to this in particular, and the Black community is a community of great and deep faith. I think they're probably the single largest demographic that supports God. Here's a percentage of the people support God, and I think that's a lot of how they kind of view the ideological world. Obviously, there's no doubt we all know that black community has voted Democrats for decades and decades, very similar in a lot of ways. Actually, the Jewish community that actually black people and the Jewish community supported Republicans after Lincoln because they viewed the Republican Party as a party of social justice. And what happened was after Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, that kind of shifted actually in a similar times for both communities. I think the Black community, maybe a little bit earlier, moved toward the Democratic Party, but the Democratic Party had a lot of issues at the time. Also, right, a lot of the Southern Democrats, the Dixie Democrats, were just among the most racist politicians that exist, even more the Republicans, like you know, it was a legacy of slavery. But over a period of time around that time, the Black community moved away from the Republicans and moved toward the Democrats clicking the sixties right.
00:05:02
Speaker 3: Uh.
00:05:02
Speaker 2: During Lyndon Johnson's time in particular, Uh, it became pretty strong Democrats and that has nothing has changed. And in this video when I when I went and I spoke these young people in this community college, I chose a community college in particular as opposed to going to like a larger four year university. Uh, we can talk about that also, but I chose that really in particular. I asked, like, how do you guys view yourselves Republican Democrat? And there was a single student who who self identify as Republican, right, which wasn't surprising. And then we did the kind of like you said, the taste the taste test is test. And I thought it was the sweetest video I've ever made. It was it was the reactions which was so heartfelt and real and genuine, like their surprise, their their shock in some cases, right. I thought it was really insightful and sweet and genuine and really is one of my most favorite videos I have ever made, and one of my favorite videos. I've discussed that a couple of times, not that many times, and every time I watch the video it brings us big smile to my face, not just because you know, I shade it toward obviously towards you know that they show themselves to be more conservative than liberal. If you don't want to call a republic democrat. That also makes sense. The world has changed in terms of how people lay themselves. But I thought just the reaction to it was so interesting and sweet and real. I love this video, really was. It was an important video to they.
00:06:35
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to add to that that around here, we deal in data, and we deal with credible sources, and so if I may, I will extend my I will vouch for what it is people might see in the video because I know historically speaking it to be true that you don't tailor or doctor your videos to suggest something that you might have come to the table, like a preconceived notion. You don't edit people out who don't give you the answers that you don't want. You let let it kind of fly. And uh, I mean, please feel free to that our listener knows.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: That my best videos are the ones where I came in like I always go with the preconceived notion. Sure, just like I'm always like, here's why I think this is gonna shake down. Sometimes it doesn't. And I gotta be honest and.
00:07:30
Speaker 1: You don't doctor it.
00:07:31
Speaker 4: Yep, I don't doctor Look I edit, yeah, of course.
00:07:34
Speaker 1: But you don't edit people out that. I just want to make sure our listeners know.
00:07:36
Speaker 2: Everyone the the the thrust of what you hear is what the thrust.
00:07:40
Speaker 4: Of of everyone sposed to.
00:07:42
Speaker 1: So so yeah, so in some of the.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Best videos are when I come in with a preconceived notion and what I get was different, even most interesting. So yeah, that's really important to me that you that you hear and you see what I saw felt right.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: That that's exactly what I'm saying. It's an honest So so before we get too far, we want to do this again at the end. But let people know where they can find this video online.
00:08:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can go to at Amy Horowitz on any of the social media.
00:08:18
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, now again I said that to say that what you're looking at when you're looking at a film from Amy is something that is the real deal. It's not doctored to create a narrative that is not accurate. This is data. This is you know, what Amy gets from the ground, so you.
00:08:37
Speaker 4: Can have it's anecdotal.
00:08:38
Speaker 2: It's anecdotal in the sense that like, look, it's just the people I talk to.
00:08:42
Speaker 1: No, I get it.
00:08:42
Speaker 2: But yeah, but data and anecdote together are powerful.
00:08:47
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go with that. I just want to make sure because there's a lot of content creators and a lot of people out there that make content, and they will edit out things that don't support what they want to say, and they leave in the things that do say what they will or affirm what they what they believe, or what they want to get off. And that's not what you're doing here. So I want our listeners to be able to trust and what they see is more or less what happened on the street. So that's I appreciate you helping me share that with him. But you know, again, Amy would not be a friend of the show, and Amy would not be on the show so frequently, I mean, would not be a person that I bounce ideas off and uh, you know, get ideas from if Amy was not a credible journalist in his own right. And so that's my my co sign for what it is you've done with that said, of course you're here sort of in the lions den for me to challenge a lot of what it is that you know, you have discovered, uncovered, you know whatever, and so this is the conversation we want to have. So I took I took the liberty of kind of putting together the questions for folks whoever not yet able to see the film or you know, maybe they were going to get to it at some point in the future. So I want to share the questions and sort of what I saw when I saw the film. So the first question, again, you're on a college campus, you're and it's a it's a city college, a junior college. So these are among the youngest of the young students that you're gonna find at that level of you know, education. First question, should women be able to get a late term abortion? I took the text exactly as you asked it, you know, to the to the participants. So should women be able to get a late term abortion? And it was sort of a yes no question, and everyone answered accordingly. Should we spend more time and effort stopping illegal immigration or less time? Okay, just as as we're playing it as it lies. Should parents have more control over education or less control over education? And you know, as you're listening, feel free to kind of formulate your own opinions because this is an honest conversation as we have. Next question says should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes? Next one, should we generally have more policing or less policing? Again, the idea being that one answer would suggest that you might lean Democrat at least in that area, and obviously the opposite answer. This is a binary, so we're going to get one answer that suggests that you have democratic values, another one that suggests you have Republican or conservative values. Next question, should we allow children to medically transition? Next question, should we allow males to transition to females to compete in sports? And then finally, should we spend more money on social programs and have higher debt or spend less money on social programs and less debt? And I apologize, there's actually it looks like there might be more Should someone show ID to vote? And I think that was the last. Oh, sorry, more regulations and higher taxes to stop climate change or less regulations and lower taxes to spur the economy. So these were the questions that were asked, and you at the end you compiled the answers from each individual person and you let them know whether or not they actually align in terms of their answers with a Republican voter or with a Democratic voter. And again the results, as you mentioned, they were surprising. Everybody seemed like they were having a good time. The individual that took the test, they seemed very shocked, and some of them said, you know, comments like man, I really need to rethink this, or you know all that sort of stuff. Right, do I have it?
00:12:43
Speaker 3: Right?
00:12:43
Speaker 1: Did I paint?
00:12:44
Speaker 2: And I specifically included the exact question and every so people same question.
00:12:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker 2: So people can say like, look, I think you shaded it one way or the other, and that's a fair, totally fair. But I wanted everyone to know exactly what I asked, so they had contacts and they can make the own decision whether or not they think that's actually Look, some Democrats will say to me, well, wait, I believe in more policing and less policing, so why is that Republican notion? That's totally fair, and I'm obviously a generalization for the most part. Yeah, of course, But I wanted people to hear the entire question and they can make their own decision and whether or not they agree that that's more Republican Democrats.
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Now, before we get into the weeds here, I want to know what you expected when you went to this camp. And I think that our listeners should know kind of what you expected, because you're a person that deals in I mean, you have conversations related to politics professionally and of course personally, and this is like, this is your bag, man, You're in your bag. So what did you went to this college intentionally? You talk to these students intentionally? What was your expectation. We know that you were surprised, but what did you think was going to happen?
00:13:55
Speaker 2: So I suspect that it was going to be majority Republican, Like I guess if we talked to you know, fifty twenty people, if you asked me to say a guess, I'd probably say, like, I guess me twelve thirteen like a majority, but not a not an overwalling majority. And I and again, I specifically went to community college on purpose because I do feel that when kids go to a community college and doesn't matter you're white or black, or you know, what your background is, I think there's less of a focus when it comes to what you're learning on ideology from either side, because you're there to get education, and a lot of times they're for two years. They're just two year colleges. You're moving on from there. I think they're less steeped in doctrine, less steep in politics. I think they're more like, hey, man, you're here for education and all the other stuff. Way to you go to UCLA or Berkeley or the other schools, then ideology will come into the place. So I chose that specifically. I think that was a good idea. But yeah, I assumed majority, but not an overalling majority.
00:15:05
Speaker 4: That's why. That's why I thought coming in.
00:15:06
Speaker 1: Okay, and then your results surprised you. So it was an overwhelming majority or or.
00:15:11
Speaker 4: I think it was everything. I think it was every single.
00:15:13
Speaker 1: Person, every single person. Okay, good, okay, so real quick. Amy Horwitz is here with us today. Amy is an American conservative documentary filmmaker. He is a dear friend of mine and a friend of the show, of course, and we're talking about a recent film he made. Having gone to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask students to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they lean more Republican or Democrat. As Amy just mentioned, the ready assumption was that, you know, most people would say that they were Democrat and ultimately after the challenge would end up learning that they held more conservative beliefs. And Amy was pleasantly surprised to uh learn that that was indeed true. Now I want to go through these uh quickly. We don't have to take too much time. But I made some notes and I've campaigned them. I've had a few days to kind of sit with this, and I want to challenge this. I love what you said about, Hey, you can talk to a Democrat and say, hey, do you want more or less policing? And a Democrat might say more policing and have you know, democratic values across the board and still want more policing. That doesn't necessarily or in and of itself mean that a person it has a conservative or a Republican belief And I realize that you're painting with broad strokes and this is content creation and so forth, but I do have to go ahead.
00:16:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying you have to as video, and I totally acknowledge that there's always some deficiencies when you when you give the broad rush, but you get the general jest.
00:16:48
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and now you know me, I'm going right for the deficiencies. So let me stretch. Get ready to get into it. Okay, all right, let's go to the first one, should women be able to get a late term abortion? That was the question, should women be able to get a late term abortion? Here I witnessed people, Uh, it seemed to me like there was an emotional response indeed to a lot of these questions. A lot of these questions. People they had these strong reactions ooh ah, that's a good one, you know that sort of thing.
00:17:27
Speaker 2: Right, they were so thoughtful about that, right, jump to an answer like, oh, you know what, let me marin it.
00:17:33
Speaker 4: I think one remerited on this.
00:17:35
Speaker 3: I love that.
00:17:36
Speaker 4: That's you know, they really they took it seriously. They didn't take us a joke. And I really appreciated that.
00:17:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And that's that's what you said it better than I could. That's more or less what I was trying to say. So again, the question should women be able to get a late term abortion? I think, and again I have campaign this isn't just in my head, but I think that this sort of ignores the question asked, stated across the board to all the folks, it ignores that late term abortions, generally speaking, they only take place when something significant has happened, or are there significant risk to the baby or to the mother some complication with the pregnancy. Typically, a person does not get pregnant, get to the point where they know that they're pregnant, and then get to the end of it. By then they've picked out a name, they have like, you know, they're excited for their baby to come. So generally speaking, when that happens, it's not you know what, I'm seven months and I just don't really I'm not feeling it anymore. That's not the majority of late term abortions that take place. Typically, it's a very sad thing, right, So to ask that question in that way, should women be able to get a late term abortion, I think it ignores the reality and what the data suggests is really taking place in that in that chapter of a pregnancy. Furthermore, it's again it's not often the the case that a woman will wait to the third trimester. But what I think we've seen with the Supreme Court sort of sending this decision down to the states now Southern states get to legislate from the Bible, right where they believe in miracles and they believe that the will of God said the baby should you know whatever? And it you know, we don't know if the fetus is not going to be viable long term, if they're significant rest of the mother, how do you value one over the other? That sort of thing. And the states are doing this from the Bible and instead of case by case basis between a woman, her husband often enough or the father of the child and their medical provider, right, and so rather than taking a pragmatic approach to medicine that's based in science and data and so forth, these Southern states will legislate from the Bible, as they often do, and that leaves a lot to be desired. To put it mildly, because I realized that the show is right. And again to simply ask if a woman should be allowed to get a late term abortion, it almost frames the question as if it's like simply a choice, again, which largely isn't true. It's usually a or it is a choice, I suppose, but not a choice that is a cavalier one. And to align a response of no with Republicans I think that that might ignore the complexities of the politics surrounding the issue. Democrats, generally speaking, think the issue should be again a decision between a woman and her health care provider, and Republicans believe that it's an issue for the state. And I think that the more appropriate question to ask is should this decision be between a woman and a health care provider or should this decision be between the state and a woman? And I think that in that question you might get some more precise responses that a align more ideologically speaking with Democrats and Republicans, and B you still get the emotional response from the folks that are doing the taste has challenge. You get everything that you need there, but you also get a sense of how people arrive at their conclusions and why. And I know that it's it's not a much longer question. In fact, I think it's the same amount of letters I or words rather because I did this because I'm like, how do I say this to Ami? Because I know that's a good faith question on your end. But I don't think it's as simple as should women be able to get late term abortions? Yes or no? Yes means that you're a Democrat, No means you're a Republican. And again I know that that's not the point. This isn't purely scientific. This is just to let people know that there's a different paradigm to which they could align themselves with if they so chose. However, I just wanted to submit that to you and see what you thought before we moved a question.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: Too totally fair, and I'll just I'll say that so I chose that the wording specifically, So had I change the wording to should we make illegal a late term abortion that's by choice and not a medical issue? I would submit to you that one hunt every single person I spoke to would say no.
00:22:25
Speaker 3: My guess is, and that's a guest. I don't know.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: It wouldn't have been like I think that abortion question was. I don't remember all the numbers, but I think maybe it was like sixty percent or we're against it and forty percent were for it. Had I changed the language say by choice, it would have been overwhelmingly yes. I left it a little bit open so they could also say, like, it includes all things, including.
00:22:46
Speaker 3: If there were medical issues.
00:22:48
Speaker 2: Now, my interestingly, my personal opinion is that if a woman is has a later abortion and her life is on the line. For I'm a pretty moderate abortion no question that abortion should should be legal, right, that's my belief. It's actually more, it's actually a very Jewish belief. I'll push back on one thing.
00:23:09
Speaker 3: Couple.
00:23:10
Speaker 2: One thing in particular is that and and by the way, and not not that you. I mean it's hard to I assumed you were right before. I did actually research on this for a Dishman issue a couple of years ago, that when you said that the vast majority of later abortions are not choice, Like, hey man, you know what, I'm six months in I'm I don't want to do this, and there for medical reasons. I thought the same thing. So there's I wish I had it on me. I can look it up maybe over a break. So it was study was done by I think it's called the Haymaker Institute. It's a pro abortion probably the biggest pro abortion think tank in the country, and they did analysis for a few thousand women who got later abortions, but what your choices were, and shockingly, and I was shocked, the majority of women who got the abortions did it.
00:23:57
Speaker 3: But it was not a medical reason.
00:23:58
Speaker 2: It was I broke up with my boyfriend or husband, I realized the abortion clinic is too far away from my house.
00:24:04
Speaker 3: Actually, things that are I don't want.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: To say trivial or cavalier, you said, which is a great word, it turned out. And again I wish I had the data in front of me, because the data is really important. But this institute called, and I'll look it up in the brain, the High Micro Institute. It's a big pro abortion. Clearly institute did say that it did. They were surprised also that it was a majority. It wasn't an overalling majority, but it was a majority of women who did it by choice. Having said that, I don't want to take away the choice of any woman who wants to get an abortion for medical reasons, because that is I think psychro sync and I think is important.
00:24:41
Speaker 3: And you're right.
00:24:42
Speaker 2: The language that I use was was very broad, but broad on purpose.
00:24:47
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I'll go with that. And again, this is simply a discussion. I want our listeners to to watch this because I listen to Amy. You know, this is the Black Information Network, this is Radio PACIFICA, this is you know, this is the show is shared widely. You know, I heard everything like that. And so there's a lot of different people with a lot of different beliefs, and you know, people might, as you mentioned, you know you're a moderate on this, you might be lean more conservative on that, you might lean more liberal on something else. You know, Lord knows you and I have had conversations where you've met me where I am, and I'm surprised by that. I'm sure the day will come when I'll meet you somewhere, because I I you're a brilliant mind, and you know I will get there. I do maintain that it is not impossible. It's unlikely, but not impossible.
00:25:32
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, that is It is my one goal of life.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm right here with you life so real quick. Just to add and please you know you do it yourself. Just because I had a moment while you were chatting, I googled it. Are the majority of late term abortions medically necessarily sary or simply a choice? And what I got back says abortions performed later in pregnancy at or after twenty one weeks are rare, accounting for about one percent of all US procedures. Research indicates that these later procedure stem from a mix of severe medical complications, fetal anomalies, and systemic barriers that delay care, rather than a simple elective choice. So at least in that first paragraph, it's it's it's leaning in that direction of this isn't something where a person is like, you know what, I'm eight months pregnant, he's not really feeling anymore. Let's get this baby up out here. However, as you mentioned over the break, i'd love for you to find that data because we like I would love for you to tell me something that I don't know. I know you love when I tell you something that you don't know. But I want to make sure we get enough in the show to where we can really address all of this stuff. So so for now we'll move on. Well, actually, you know what.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: Could we could do a whole show by the way on AI and how AI.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: How it aggregates information? Yeah, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And again, I don't know that this is right or wrong. I'm just letting you know what I found so that you can come back. I fully expect that what you said is accurate and you're going to have everything. I don't think you would just say that if it wasn't true or if he didn't come across it right, so please by all means, uh, you know, help help.
00:27:05
Speaker 2: I did the research specifically for an X that we had a debate on Gotcha, gotcha? And I was like, I'm gonna actually do a deep dive.
00:27:12
Speaker 1: On Okay, all right, well real quick, don't forget that. If you are locked in online and you want to get the full unedited version, do us favor visit our website civiccite for dot com. Don't forget. You can find Amy and his film on all of his platforms at Amy Horowitz h O R O W I t Z amy spelled a M. I also want to take a moment to tease the rest of the show before we break, so again, uh. The upcoming question? Should we spend more time and efforts stopping illegal immigration or less time? Should parents have more control over education or less control over education? Should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes. Should we generally have more policing or less policing? Uh? Should we allow children to medically transition? Should we allow males to transition to female to compete in sports? Should we spend more money on social programs and have higher debt or less money on social programs and have less debt should someone show ID to vote, And more regulations and higher taxes to stop climate change, or less regulations and lower taxes to spur the economy. So all those questions we are going to be asking. Are we going to be investigating AMI's answers that he uncovered at the college in Los Angeles, And of course I'm going to be pushing back in terms of the framing of the questions and the responses and whether or not they actually lean Democrat or Republican, or conservative or progressive. And also I think that a little later on the show, we're going to have to have a conversation I'm sure you'd agree on me about how diverse any population can be in terms of their thoughts, but in a binary how and why I do we see such a stark contrast in terms of the way that black people vote, men and women relative to the general population. So again, a lot to stick around for, and provided we have enough time to get to it, because I think that Immy and I are really good at debating, We're going to do our best to get to all that. So again, Amy Horowitz, if you want to check him out on all social media, and while you're at it, be sure to give us a followers well at Civic sieher c ib C C I P h e R. I'm Rams' job. While you're at it, be sure to give me a follow as well as Q. You can find him at I am q Ward. And as I mentioned, we'll be back in Justice Sec. To have the rest of this fascinating conversation with the great Ammy Horowitz, dear friend of the show, masterful orator and one of the great debaters that I know, so a lot to stick around for, and hopefully you do. We'll see into Justice Sec.
