Data-Driven Prosthetic Socket Fit with Matt Wernke, PhD

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Okay, cool.
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Hello everyone.
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My name is Joris Peels, and this is another prosthetics and Orthotics podcast with Brent Wright.
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How are you doing, Brent?
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Hey man.
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I'm uh doing well.
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You know, it's it's been interesting.
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We're a couple weeks after the AOPA and everybody now now it's like people are kind of looking into, hey, what did we see and who do we want to contact?
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And so Advanced 3D is getting a lot of calls, which is super cool.
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But we're already almost sold out of our polypropylene carbon fiber, the carbon flow.
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I've already placed another order for triple as much.
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Okay.
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Wine's not so popular.
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Why is it so popular?
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So so polypropylene is notoriously hard to print.
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It's called polywarpylene for a reason.
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I hadn't heard that actually.
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That's really funny.
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And you know, it doesn't stick to a bed, it doesn't anything.
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And so and you you're usually at a high temperature, usually some sort of heated chamber, just to get anything close.
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Well, our polypropylene actually melts at 240 degrees.
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Uh see?
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So a little bit less.
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It's uh it's got a lot of carbon fiber in it.
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And then there's uh the X, Y, and Z are all the same strength.
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Okay.
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And uh and it sticks to the bed really nice.
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No, no, like really the same strength.
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So yeah.
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I'm still skeptical, but I'll get it.
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Yeah, well, you know, uh we'll talk to talk to we need to get safe on sometime, uh, our engineer guy.
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He he is like super duper on the he'll so he'll run samples in the XY and then one in Z and and break them on our uh tensile tester.
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And it's it's been pretty incredible.
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So anyway, it it it really doesn't fail, which is pretty cool, and it's great for prosthetics.
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So, you know, for me, especially with the stuff that I um do in the developing world and and hope that other people will do in the developing world, I believe that this is part of the answer that we've been looking for for nice, durable, accessible prostheses uh worldwide.
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So I'm really excited about that.
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Cool.
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And do you sell the material or just the services or what?
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We sell the material, yep.
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Yep.
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No, come on, come on.
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And it's uh 1.75, so that's the first kind of 1.75 material for in specifically for prosthetics and orthotics that's polypropylene carbon five.
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I knew you can't you were just like talking about it, so I didn't know you guys were sign.
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That's awesome, dude.
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Yeah.
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Well, you know, it's one of those things.
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It's like if if if what's out there doesn't make you happy, I guess you gotta go try to figure out how to make it yourself.
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Totally, dude.
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Totally.
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Even though you say, hey man, never buy a machine, don't produce anything.
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Yeah.
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Do you do parts and help people in design journeys to parts?
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I'm more about that.
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I'm more about the value of the services around there.
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Material selling materials is a beautiful business if you have the right material stuff.
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So you know, the servicing is the thing I think is just really complicated and really a lot of work.
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Well, and I think I want you just real quick, you've done a a series of posts and you call it your Franken Frankenstein service.
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Frankenservice.
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I mean, you describe advanced 3D pretty much to the T, like we have all the different machines going and stuff, but it's it's actually for us, it works, but I can definitely see at a large scale, you're gonna need very much the same machines.
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And we're moving in that direction, but each machine does serve its different purpose.
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Yeah, I think I think the idea behind the Franken Service series of posts is this everyone always tends to standardize on one machine because we're a bit scared, right?
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And they also kind of standardize on one material.
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That's why we have a lot of uh, you know, whatever P110s or for soons flights with like, you know, uh P12 essentially.
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A lot of people just, you know, they buy a fuse and then they just buy more of them, you know, and then they don't go to anything else.
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And the idea was that, you know, maybe it's better to have more complicated workflows and be more of a uh you know, ideated part provider in many more different, you know, to use the the idea was to use, for example, uh the the fuses for long weekend runs, right?
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And then the 1200 smaller HP machines for small niche materials.
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And then, for example, have like a you know, maybe like a fursuit flight for some kind of FR censoring material that no one else uses but but is still makes sense on that machine, you know, that kind of thing.
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So and people don't tend to use, they they tend to stick like to what they know, and I think I think it's just an interesting thought experiment to look at, like, you know, what what you know what what else we could be thinking about, you know.
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So that's cool.
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Hey, do we have a guest today?
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We do, we do.
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I'm really excited to have Matt Wernkey on.
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Uh, he's the director of research and development at Willowwood.
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And we talked to his colleague, uh uh Janine, talking about the socket design thing, and we won't steal all the all the thunder yet, but uh he has been working with her and doing some of that, and uh, and we've talked back and forth, and we actually gave them best of show, not only the the booth, but also for the product itself uh on the last episode.
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So I'm really excited to have him on, not only to talk about his journey, but also to talk about some of the new products coming down the line to enhance prosthetic fit.
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Awesome.
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So uh Matt, welcome to the show.
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Yeah, thank you for having me.
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And it was a great honor to get that best of show and uh best booth.
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So really appreciate that, guys.
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So talk to well, tell us a little bit how did you get involved with OMP?
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Yeah, you know, I was always growing up into athletics, building ramps, stairs, you know, maybe borrowing wood from houses that were being constructed in my neighborhood and just just building things with my friends.
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And my high school had engineering tech courses as an elective, and so I took those because I was really interested in engineering.
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And one day on the way out the door to school, my dad gave me a article about prosthetic limbs.
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And since that day, it's just this is what I wanted to do, and so kind of picked my uh engineering degree through college and then uh grad school focused on on OMP.
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My dissertation was on upper limb prosthetics, and about that time I was defending one of my committee members and mentors, Jason Highsmith, had an email from Willowwood that they were looking for a new research engineer and applied and you know the rest is history.
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Here I am 13 years later now.
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Okay, cool.
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And and talk to us about research engineering, because that's not, you know, mechanical engineer, sure I've heard of it.
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What does a research engineer do?
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Because I think it's a really interesting job, actually, right?
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It is.
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It's uh it's a it's a great role.
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I I think uh it's been a really rewarding career.
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It's opened up a lot of doors.
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So it you know, originally it was brought on to help lead some of the grant efforts that they had, really looking at outcomes.
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So one of the core tenets of Willowwood is creating outcomes for patients, for clinicians, and improving the lives, leveling the playing field.
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And yeah, that that was the goal is not just make product, but also provide the outcomes and show that what we say this thing does is actually what it what it does do.
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And so that it created a lot of opportunity.
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And through that time, the the role evolved and took on more emphasis on development at times, more emphasis on research and kind of trying to get ahead of where trends are going in the in the industry.
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And it's a really fun and challenging role.
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Okay, that's cool.
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And then uh, well, talk to us first about this new solution you guys have been developing because uh we we we talked about it a little bit with the colleague, but it seems like really interesting.
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It it seems like what what was the problem you guys were originally trying to solve?
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Yeah, so we've been working on this since I want to say 2019 or so.
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We wrote the original grant that was funded by the Department of Defense.
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And really, the the project that we were trying to get funded at the time is we were really interested in how should sockets be designed.
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We know comfort is one of the main concerns of patients.
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We know that there's still a high prevalence of tissue injury, skin irritation that's being reported.
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So we wanted to understand how should we distribute pressure on the limb in a way that is healthy for the tissues.
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And, you know, kind of leading into this, we had been in a we've been in a 15 plus year collaboration with Ohio State University and some of their wound care experts there.
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So we've developed this expertise for how to measure limb health and selecting limb health measurements that predict uh wound formation.
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And so we use that expertise and built this study, this clinical trial, to measure how skin health responds and re in in in in response to tissue and socket design.
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But one variable I wanted to control in the study was, you know, we Alex, who is the prosthetist on the study, is really good.
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But I can't just leave it to him to say, yeah, I did the exact reductions and kind of was consistent in my philosophy from one subject to the next when we're doing 42 subjects through the study.
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And from that was born the idea and the concept for the TIG.
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It's kind of playing on an idea that I had when I was in grad school for calibrating force plates and using kind of a simple spring-loaded rod to quantify the force and and essentially made a handheld drometer gauge.
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But first, one thing I think I think we don't see, I think, enough applied research really going on at OMP.
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I think a lot of people are reading this like, oh, the defense funds a clinical trial.
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Sounds like fun.
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Sounds like something I could do or I want to do.
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Talk us a little bit.
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If if I'm a company that wants to do this, I mean, what do I need to do?
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I mean, I mean, how many times do I need to devote to some how many, how many years or time time do I have to devote to this?
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How many people do I need for something like that?
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And what does my mentality have to be to do something like this?
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Because we would love to see more work like this being done, but it's it's not it's definitely not easy, right?
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No, it it's not, but I I think the field has been moving in this direction over the last several years.
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You know, I think the when I first joined the industry, the the rack audits and things were going on.
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And since that time, I think outcomes have become more of a focus.
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I think there's been more intention with the design and trying to understand what type of patient presentation responds best to what type of technology.
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So I definitely see there a growing trend here, and it's exciting to see just because I think at the end of the day, care is is improving and patients are getting more value for their care because of that.
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In terms of what you need to get going, uh, I think really that just comes down to have an idea and and the tenacity to keep chasing it.
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There there will definitely be setbacks along the way, but you just need to keep persevering and find your way through to eventually you uh can can conduct the research and and make the translation to the clinic that you're you're looking to do.
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Okay.
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And then yeah, talk to us about this device you guys invented.
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What was but you know, did you want to like because it's basically more than a device, right?
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It's like it's it's more like a whole measurement solution.
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Let's say did you first just want a device and did it kind of blunder into a solution, or what was what was the thinking there?
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Aaron Powell No, we we thought that it had potential.
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It definitely had the the roots of a way to control this device.
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But as we got going into this, it it was proven out to be really effective.
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And I made a mental note, you know, to the team really to go back and look.
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And at the end of the study, you know, we had made all these sockets for all these people, two different conditions.
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They were at it where it for each one for months at a time.
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So, you know, just the 38 subjects that finished, that's 76 sockets that we made using this kind of data-driven workflow.
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And we went back and looked, and at the end of that, 74 of the 76 matched the design, the pressure distribution that was in CAD was what was delivered as the definitive socket, which I don't know, I don't have good evidence of what that normally is, but it's not that.
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It's it's much more that you're having to take a heat gun and flex out an area or push it in or glue a pad in.
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So that got us really excited.
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And you're right, it's more than just this measurement.
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And and, you know, one of your past episodes, I believe it was with uh Maurice Johnson from Floyd Brace and Limb.
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You guys were talking, uh, I think it might have been right after the show, you guys were kind of spitballing with each other.
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And Brent, I think maybe you made the comment about it'd be really cool to see kind of the physical measurements blended with some type of AI.
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And I'm sitting there listening to the episode because I do listen to you guys' show regularly, and I'm getting excited.
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It's like, man, this is the idea I've been wanting to talk to Brent about for a long time.
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Because I think it fits that need, right?
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So it's not just a device that can quantify what the clinician's already doing with their hands, right?
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You're already palpating and feeling where is it hard, where's it soft.
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You know you want to apply pressures generally where it's it's softer and relieve where it's harder, but this just gives you that quantification of what you're doing with your hands that can be fed into a digital workflow.
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So we are in the process of revamping our omega system and that should be coming out really soon, and we're really excited about it.
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Some people got to see it at AOPA a couple of weeks ago.
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Um, but this works in.
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There's a there's a bit of AI to kind of help locate based on a few real simple bits of information that we're getting from the patient and kind of helping map out where the sites that we're collecting this TIG data, you know, on the limb is in the digital world.
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And then from that, you kind of verify the placement, the TIG data gets populated into those sites.
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And based on this limb health study that we have and all the outcomes and how to distribute the pressure based on the actual presentation of your limb, it then can make an initial socket recommendation that the clinician can verify or further personalize to their liking.
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Okay.
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And then where do I is it is it that it's gonna be more comfortable?
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Is it gonna be quicker to get to more comfortable, or is it gonna be healthier?
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What's the the the the real advantage day-to-day for the patient and and using this?
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We we see all the above.
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So we we expect there to be comfort.
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You know, most recently we fit a wounded warrior outside of the study, but using the the TIG and data-driven workflow.
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And I was with chatting with him in a group, and you know, he's he's saying it's the most comfortable socket he's ever had fit on him.
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And he's been an amputee since 1996, I believe.
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That's not the only comment we've heard of that.
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But I also think it will be healthier on the tissues just because we have the scientific evidence supporting some of the decisions that are made based on the presentation of stiffness.
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But then also the clinical efficiency, less disruptions, less back and forth to the clinic for the patient, more time for the practitioner to work with that patient on other things, whether it be gay training or working on a device for some other aspect of their daily lives.
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I think there's a number of ways that this can impact the clinic positively.
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Okay, okay.
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And then, you know, how am I gonna buy this thing?
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I mean, I think it's really early days for you guys.
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I mean, you may not have a price or something, but the idea is like it's a purchase price, I buy it, I have a subscription.
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How's it gonna work kind of generally?
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I think.
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What can you tell us now?
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Yeah, we we're definitely still working through that.
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Uh, hope to have something sorted out soon, but we're mindful of you know constraints in the field and we we understand that this is something that can positively impact that.
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So we're trying to weigh all this decision and make sure that it provides value, is accessible to to everybody.
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And you know, hopefully I can have that update to you here in the near future.
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But but and and you know, and how am I gonna interpret this information?
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Is it only through your software?
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Could I use it without your software?
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Like, because a lot of people are are flying by kind of ear or some feeling or some built-up kind of sensitivity, I guess, you know.
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So, you know, I'm gonna be reading this in the software.
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How am I gonna be able to take that through, I don't know, my CAD software if I'm gonna make a 3D printing port, or how am I gonna make that, you know, how's I'm gonna translate that to the real world?
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Yeah.
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Initially, I think everything will run through kind of the new Omega platform.
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It just will have all the tools you need.
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It'll, you know, help house the model.
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Uh it help just ensure that we have a a bit of control around that in terms of the data workflow getting up to the socket design.
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From there, you know, you could send that to 3D Print the Socket if that's what you want, kind of build your negative from the positive.
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You can go a traditional manufacturing route, whether you're doing that in-house, you're sending it to a central fabrication house, whatever your preferences are from there.
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I don't really see any limitations in that regard.
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So one of the things that I find fascinating, and you've been working on this for a long time.
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So it it probably hasn't been all roses and butterflies and that sort of thing.
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There's also, and and probably not from the engineering side, but just trying to get people like me, clinicians, right, that uh have a hard head on board.
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What would you say some of the challenges is have been?
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:49.120
And then and then light bulb moments for people like me, like a clinician, like and then you see some connecting of the dots.
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:55.440
Yeah, I I think you know, obviously, getting the tool to work and be accurate.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.480
That that's that was just a fun engineering challenge, right?
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.879
Just getting it ever better, ever more accurate.
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:02.240
There, there was a lot of iterations.
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:09.680
I think we're on the fourth iteration of it now, and that you know, within that there's a few minor tweaks, I wouldn't call a major overhaul of the design.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.279
But you know, we've been at it for a while, so we've really got that honed in.
00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:21.519
In terms of adoption with with the clinicians, you know, I I think just giving it a chance and trialing it, I think you'll be impressed.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:28.400
I think you'll view it as an enhancement to what you are currently doing, more information that allows you to act.
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:41.279
I think in time there'll be a realization of the added information that's only gonna help with medical necessity justification and being able to present evidence, quantitative evidence to payers in time.
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:46.640
And that's gonna help just make the decision more clear and more evident of why it's needed.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.839
And so I think those are some of the opportunities that we have in front of us.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:59.200
So with the integration of Willow Wood's software, I mean, that's been around for a while and probably uh needed a refresh anyway.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.079
So it's a perfect time to do that.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:16.559
What role have you seen AI help kind of even decision trees, process information, things of that nature that has helped accelerate your kind of program, so to speak, or your your research?
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:17.119
Sure.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:30.079
Yeah, I think it will be somewhat present in the in the final solution, just helping to more quickly identify where the regions are on the scanned shape, as opposed to having to do that manually.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:35.519
So I think there'll be a time savings aspect to the clinicians then the the tig data gets populated in.
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:49.519
Of course, you know, it could it AI is useful in in some ways and just use re used uh correctly and and kind of responsibly just to help as you're working through code and that kind of stuff, uh just getting you quick quicker iterations on on that.
00:18:49.680 --> 00:19:17.920
But yeah, I what I what I do appreciate is kind of what you touched on in the previous uh episode that I referenced earlier is is just bringing the physical measurements into an AI model just so it's not purely based on on a template or you know, a set better of uh set a set based of rules, but actually using information specific to that individual to then make some recommendations.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:18.400
Yeah.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.240
I think I think that's a really interesting approach.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:25.599
And I think if we look a little bit uh, you know, yeah, are there a particular indication where you think this is going to be used a lot more?
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:27.359
I mean, socket seems obvious.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:28.880
Do you think it'll go way beyond that?
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.160
Or is it just a like a basically socket-only type of tool?
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.440
Do you think it's like a specialized thing, or is it just like a it's like 3D scanning?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.119
You can apply it to a ton of different stuff.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:39.599
I I think you can apply it to a lot of different areas.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:49.519
Uh obviously sockets is one that was near and dear to our interests being in the prosthetics industry for, you know, well over a hundred years at this point.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:56.319
But I could see quick expansion into other areas where an assistive device is mating with the human body.
00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:12.880
So whether that's orthoses, exoskeletons, wheelchair seating, you'll be able to get really accurate data about your patient's presentation, wherever that device or garment is going to be interfacing with and figure out how to best distribute it to protect their health, protect their comfort, make them more functional.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.799
And there could be it could also impact the other side of the interface, right?
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.559
In terms of how lineers are made and designed, et cetera.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.119
So there's a lot of possibilities that this could span into.
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.680
And this is just the first, the first thrust into the commercial space.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.640
Okay, that's good.
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.480
And then uh let's well, uh are you are you guys working on other stuff?
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:34.880
Has this been just the entire focus of your existence so far?
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.920
Is there any stuff other stuff you're working on in Willowwood at the moment as well?
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.079
Well, we're working on all sorts of stuff, yours.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.359
So it's it we're it's a really exciting time at Willowwood.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:21:00.799
This this product is kind of the first, I kind of referenced it in the talk at AOPA, but you know, once you kind of define or give a good starting point of what this is, you know, the logical next thing that you'd want to do is, okay, if we know this is better for limb health, let's track what's changing over time.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:06.000
And then if you could track what's changing over time, you could then create automatic adjustment systems.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.720
And this is just what we're working on focused at the interface.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.400
So we we have thrust in each of those buckets.
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:36.079
So not only we are, you know, with this data-driven workflow, establishing a really good fit up front, we'll have technologies that'll help you monitor changes to that fit, whether that's alerting the patient or feeding into some type of closed-loop controller for an automatic adjusting socket or interface system, right, where you can maintain that comfort and protect that limb health over the whole course of that useful life, that prosthesis.
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:42.880
And then, you know, beyond the interface, there's other technologies that we're working on that we're really excited about.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:51.200
Uh and you know, we've come up with some other innovating ideas, you know, most recently, kind of the Metaflow, the first sixty-eight foot.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:58.960
So that's the code for active dorsiflexion, but we're the first to have no hydraulics to achieve that code for K3 ambulators.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.759
So that was a really exciting.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.920
Writing has been a great product for patients and really positive feedback from the field on that one as well.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:06.559
That's cool.
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:09.599
And we're talking about it with your colleague as well, but I want to bring it up again.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.839
So you guys have been making these wooden sockets for a long time.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.480
How about bringing back those wooden classic kind of for the hipsters in the world?
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:24.960
It's kind of really classic, nobly made wooden sockets to really celebrate the history of the firm.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:32.799
Yeah, you know, this this came up real fast, but we wanted to make a wooden replica or functional wooden uh uh uh Tig just for you, yours.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.039
So maybe we'll have to come back with a little bit more time.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:36.880
But you're you you're I'm not opposed to that.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.519
I don't well uh you know, uh knock on wood, uh I don't need that kind of stuff now.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:43.839
So that's that's that's one thing I'm happy.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.279
I love doing this this podcast and stuff like that, but I'm not uh that experienced in that sense.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:48.960
I hope I don't have to do that, I think.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.519
I'm not as strong as always these people, the patients we get on here.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.920
I'm always like, what do I have to go run triathlons too?
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:54.720
I'm like, no, no, no.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:56.480
You know, I'm lazy enough as it is, you know.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:07.119
Uh so uh and another thing, I think if we're just looking at more broadly in in in innovation is market, like there's always kind of this broader kind of, you know, how are you gonna tell me to do my job kind of thing?
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:18.559
This kind of artisanness, and then there's like kind of a and we know this is well an additive as well, where people are just like kind of like a little bit scared of it or just like afraid of kind of being replaced or their key skill being replaced.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.759
You know, how do you do that?
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:26.720
How do you kind of offer them new tools without kind of taking away that artisanship, but then again, at the same time kind of making them more accurate, you know?
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.759
Absolutely.
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:41.440
It's definitely been a uh something on top of mind for us as we you know finalize out this data-driven workflow, you know, making sure the clinician and even the patient, there there's points throughout where their input is is vital to this.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.440
It's not a replacement of, it's an enhancement to those individuals.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.559
And I think we've seen this in other areas of medicine as well.
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:53.519
Uh you know, there's several examples in dentistry and and even ophthalmology, right?
00:23:53.599 --> 00:24:03.039
So if you go to the eye doctor back in the day, they used to shine the light in your eye, and the doctor's looking through the light and seeing how your eye is responding to that stimulus.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:11.440
Then comes the, then after he makes his initial assessment based on his experience, you go through trial framing where he's like, which lens is better, this one or this one.
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.160
Then comes the invention of the autorefractor.
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.599
So you now look into the machine.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:26.160
It's doing the same thing the clinician used to be doing, but now giving a more objective approach and feeding that to the clinician, and you get a more efficient trial framing process and reaching your prescription faster.
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.920
I think it's a very similar analogy here is it's not a replacement too.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:39.039
It's an enhancement of the clinician's skills, giving them more information so they can make actionable decisions that lead to really good care and really efficient care.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:52.880
I'm just wondering, like your perspective as an engineer, uh, you know, and I know you've been involved with the O and P industry quite a bit, and I and that's why I appreciate yours, you bringing up the artisanship, artisan aspect of it.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:59.839
Um I I feel like we are moving more in a in a data-driven way while keeping an artisan history.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:09.920
But I I'd I'd just love for you, Matt, as an engineer coming in and then seeing some of the stuff that we did that we didn't necessarily measure.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.680
What were your thoughts coming in?
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:19.039
Like, hey, we got to fix this, or did you have like a little bit of a tick, like you you really didn't take a measurement, or how much are you taking off?
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.480
That that sort of thing.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:31.200
Because that's been my experience over the years, too, is I was very much the hands-on person doing all this, and then I'm like, maybe this data stuff, there's something to it.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:50.880
Yeah, you know, it's interesting when you enter the field and you you're interacting more regularly with clinicians and you know, just thinking some of the initial projects that I was working on at Willowwood were socket in nature, and you know, at at times they're talking percent changes, then it's all of a sudden it flips to it's a certain apply reduction, and then you're starting to ask, well, what's a what does apply mean?
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.240
So it's kind of a learning curve to to that and some of the language and and terms that are used.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:05.759
And I don't think I'm still not sure that apply to you is the same thing that apply to me is, but it's been interesting to kind of depends on where you want to apply that.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:07.359
Yeah.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:09.920
We might have to edit that out.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.240
Yeah, your all use as well to all our listeners.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:12.880
I'm sorry about that.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.799
We'll just axe that one right there.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.240
No, no, but but go on, go on.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.759
No, absolutely.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:38.960
It it's been really awesome to kind of learn and and appreciate the skill that that goes into treating patients and the and the techniques, but that doesn't you know, as an engineer and someone that likes to innovate, and I I think a lot of I do I do believe a lot of people in this space feel this is the you can't just stop innovating.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:49.440
There's always I kind of always had the mentality in sports and and in life, you know, even if you do something the best you've ever done, it's okay, how can we uh how can we make it even better?
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:56.400
And I think that, you know, striving to always find find the solution that that just improves it, even if it's just a little bit, right?
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.680
Just a little bit better every day.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.440
I get attracted to that kind of stuff.
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:00.960
I think it makes care better.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:05.680
And I I think that's where data is heading, is just getting us that little bit better, a little bit better at a time.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:14.960
And and eventually someone, you know, you what we've done, I think someone else can come along and and build a build on top of that and find a way to make it further better still.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:16.559
And that that's really exciting, right?
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:22.480
To to just to keep evolving and making that feel better and transforming it and and and improving the lives of patients.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:24.319
Yeah, thanks for that reply, Matt.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:33.200
That's a really good uh way to kind of like applying your trade and applying that technology to supply the patient with the best, you know, deeply felt ample solution there.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:43.039
But um so uh so so like I I have a question about like like just just if you're talking about Willy, well, let's talk a little bit because we haven't really mentioned 3D printing much.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.960
So, so so you know, to develop something like this, did you use 3D printing at all?
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.559
Do you use 3D printing in your work or is it kind of very distant from what you're doing?
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:55.200
We do that right now the what we refer to as the TIG is 3D printed.
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.680
Um yeah, we'll we'll see if it stays like that.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.960
We do have other products like our alpha control liner.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:03.359
The lock for that is 3D printed.
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:15.920
We use 3D printing in our plant quite a bit, whether that's you know, creating shrouds or something like that just to protect workers from hot equipment or helping accelerate various prototyping phases.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:16.799
It's there.
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:22.319
We have capabilities at at Willowwood, both in our Ohio and Arizona locations.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.079
So yeah, we're not shy to it.
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:31.680
And I think it's definitely gonna make it's already having the impact, right, and and doing things that traditionally we have not been able to do.
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:33.920
So it's it's definitely here to stay.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.359
It's gonna be more utilized.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:36.960
That's that's my viewpoint on it.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:37.920
Well that's cool.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.839
Any any kind of can you tell us anything about the printers you're using or the technologies you're using?
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:55.119
Yeah, we've we we've used, we have uh bamboo printer uh that we do it mostly just to print and kind of see, because you know when you're looking at SOLIDWORKS and you have a big monitor, sometimes what's really small can look really big on the screen.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:59.759
So it's nice to kind of get a reality trek and just look at something physical rather quickly.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.920
We have some forum lab printers that are really useful in our prototyping phase.
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:11.599
We used to have an old SLS printer, but the the maintenance on that kind of became more than than we wanted to deal with.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.799
And so that that was donated to a university.
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:21.839
And uh yeah, we have we have some other just large format FDM printers that that we use for for various things.
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.720
They don't use advanced 3D for any of their printing.
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.039
Just thought I just thought I'd throw that out there.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:28.720
But go yet.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:29.119
Yes.
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:29.680
Okay, yeah.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:30.799
Hey, hey.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:33.039
There it is.
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.759
No, and uh so that that's really exciting.
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:37.279
I like the worker shrouds idea.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.359
I think I think a lot of people just like when you get started.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:45.920
We talked about this before, jigs, fixtures, you know, organization of your lab, using kind of like little boards to put your tools on.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.680
That kind of stuff is a great way to get started.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:53.039
And the ROI on something like worker safety, somebody doesn't get burnt or something by a welding thing or something like that.
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.119
That is like the ROI on that is huge.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.880
And it's it's also a really easy way to get started and show the technology, right?
00:29:59.200 --> 00:29:59.839
Absolutely.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.400
Absolutely.
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:02.079
Yeah, you mentioned the organization.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:02.559
That's funny.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:09.440
My several guys on my team, you can go into their office, and most of the things that are hanging tools up on the wall are all 3D printed.
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:11.599
So that's definitely a useful application.
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:28.079
Yeah, no, I I think tool organization is really overlooked by people, and but just you know, just you know, not finding that 14 uh or that one wrench or that one uh ratchet and making sure that nobody like takes it or puts it somewhere else or something like that, and just having access to it, that's it's really difficult to quantify.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.599
You could, you could do time studies, I guess.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.720
You could quantify that, but but uh you know, I think it's just a huge impact with relatively little work.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:39.359
And rather than having a patient crash down or something, you have a ratchet that falls to the floor if you do it wrong.
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:41.440
So it's a it's a great way to get started, I think.
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.319
So Matt, thank you so much for being with us today.
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.279
I thought it was really great uh to learn more about Willowwood and what you guys are doing.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:54.640
This tick think sounds like it could really help the digitization of OMP and uh in a kind of really helpful way for the patient and the practitioner.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:56.400
So so thanks for you guys for for doing that.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:57.519
It sounds really exciting.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:59.920
Yeah, absolutely uh, you know, thank you for the opportunity.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.279
It's been been fun and look forward to continuing to listen to you guys.
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:04.000
Awesome.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:04.960
Thanks for that as well.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:06.559
And Brent, thank you for being here also.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:08.400
Yeah, this was this is great.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:17.440
And uh, you know, I think one thing that I I appreciate about what Matt's doing and what Willowwood's doing is I mean, we've mentioned that they've been around for a long, long time.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:30.559
And I think we don't say enough about what they're doing and what they're innovating, and maybe some of that's on the their side and the marketing side just because it just doesn't come through or pass our desk.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:44.240
But it's really cool when we start looking into it and we see what they're doing and to go from willowwood, you know, wood stuff now into the digital space where we're making things for clinicians to make sockets better.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:47.920
I mean, how cool of an evolution is that?
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:49.519
I think that's uh that's pretty neat.
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:52.960
So I would say to our listeners, you know, don't sleep on uh willowwood.
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:54.880
It seems like they're really doing some cool things.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:56.240
Awesome.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:01.200
And thank you very much for listening to another episode of the the the Prostetics and Orthodox Podcast.
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:01.920
Have a great day.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.599
You wanna you want to do that one again?
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:06.400
D dude close it out again.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.000
Thank you very much for listening to the Prestetics and Orthodox podcast.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:10.720
Have a great day.
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.680
There we go.
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:13.200
All right, hang tight.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:14.240
That was okay.
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:14.720
That was good.